RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen
NO ENVIEN EMAIL THANK YOU
-Mensaje original-
De: SANTOS, DANIEL (SBCSI) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Enviado el: Jueves 8 de Julio de 2004 16:37
Para: Tomcat Users List
Asunto: RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen
Trolling is when you make outrageous postings with the intention of agitating the
subscriers. Stuff like saying Java sucks, or C++ is 100% gauruntee that you will have
memory leaks, etc, etc. I actually wrote all types of C++ applications. You don't
really know what I have written in my career now do you? 600MB of executable? That's
a problem. Yes, you are correct, I have never written a C++ application (or system
for that matter) with a 600MB executable -- I see something essentially wrong with
that.
And C++ executables comapred to C executables... I don't think I really ever saw a
difference over 50% in size. Your statements are very black and white and close
minded and also attacking to the ideas and methodologies of hundreds of thousands of
IT professionals -- hence, "trolling"
Anyway, good luck to you
-Original Message-
From: Ivan Jouikov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 3:44 PM
To: 'Tomcat Users List'
Subject: RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen
What the hell are you talking about? I am all for java. Java is my #1 language.
> Oh for crying out loud Ivan! You challanged my assertion that Java is the
> "number one language" asking for the source of the stats and I give them
> to you but you just go on whining. Please take your trolling somewhere
> else. Get A LIFE. and as to C++?
My trolling? I don't even know what that means. And I do have a life.
>
> > Huge file sizes
> I wonder what compiler, and linking options are you using? I do not have
> a problem with my executables being "huge" at all. Then again, I don't
> use frameworks that are inefficeint hogs. Sounds like the programmer.
Huge file sizes was said about C++ COMPARATIVELY to C. Any program in C++
will be much bigger than exactly same program in C.
>
> > 100% guaranteed memory leaks
> Sounds like the programmer. My code doesn't have memory leaks! Then
> again, I know how to write disciplined code, something that quick and
> dirty programmers can't understand. I also know how to use tools that
> track memory leaks.
Looks like you've never written a 600MB program.
>
>
> And lo The Heavenly Father doth rest. And whilst He rest, His hand
> accidentally brushed the keyboard and somehow keyed in the following code.
>
> Troller ivan = new Troller();
> ivan.setIrrational(true);
> ivan.setOverEmotional(true);
> ivan.setLife(null);
> ivan.setClue(null);
> ivan.setThinkingStyle(Psychosis.THINKING_STYLE_BLACK_AND_WHITE);
>
> ivan.setDailyRoutine(new Runnable() {
> public void run() {
> while(ivan.awake()) {
> Forum target = web.surfForUnsuspectingVictims();
> if(target != null) {
> Iterator i = target.getMessages();
> while(i.hasNext()) {
> ForumPosting intelligentPosting = (Posting) i.next();
> intelligentPosting.read();
> ForumPostingReplyFactory replyFactory =
> ivan.getPsychoticReponseGenerator();
> Reply reply = replyFactory.createResponse();
> while(reply.makesSense()) {
> reply.rant();
> reply.bitch();
> reply.whine();
> reply.moan();
> reply.saySomethingIrrational();
> }
> target.post(reply);
> ivan.setIQ(ivan.getIQ() - 1);
> }
> }
> }
> ivan.slapSelf(Slap.HARD);
> throw new IdiotTrollerException();
> }
> });
>
> ivan.run();
>
Hahahah :) That was a good one. You telling me to get a life and you have
time to do that? BTW
> Iterator i = target.getMessages();
> while(i.hasNext()) {
I really like how 1.5 has the for( Element e : collection ) loop. Don't you agree?
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Ivan Jouikov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 9:29 PM
> To: 'Tomcat Users List'
> Subject: RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto
> ever happen
>
>
> Ok let's settle this argument simple.
>
> Tonight, I'll ask my Christian Science friend to talk to Jesus, and ask
> him the following:
>
>
RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen
Trolling is when you make outrageous postings with the intention of agitating the
subscriers. Stuff like saying Java sucks, or C++ is 100% gauruntee that you will have
memory leaks, etc, etc. I actually wrote all types of C++ applications. You don't
really know what I have written in my career now do you? 600MB of executable? That's
a problem. Yes, you are correct, I have never written a C++ application (or system
for that matter) with a 600MB executable -- I see something essentially wrong with
that.
And C++ executables comapred to C executables... I don't think I really ever saw a
difference over 50% in size. Your statements are very black and white and close
minded and also attacking to the ideas and methodologies of hundreds of thousands of
IT professionals -- hence, "trolling"
Anyway, good luck to you
-Original Message-
From: Ivan Jouikov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 3:44 PM
To: 'Tomcat Users List'
Subject: RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen
What the hell are you talking about? I am all for java. Java is my #1 language.
> Oh for crying out loud Ivan! You challanged my assertion that Java is the
> "number one language" asking for the source of the stats and I give them
> to you but you just go on whining. Please take your trolling somewhere
> else. Get A LIFE. and as to C++?
My trolling? I don't even know what that means. And I do have a life.
>
> > Huge file sizes
> I wonder what compiler, and linking options are you using? I do not have
> a problem with my executables being "huge" at all. Then again, I don't
> use frameworks that are inefficeint hogs. Sounds like the programmer.
Huge file sizes was said about C++ COMPARATIVELY to C. Any program in C++
will be much bigger than exactly same program in C.
>
> > 100% guaranteed memory leaks
> Sounds like the programmer. My code doesn't have memory leaks! Then
> again, I know how to write disciplined code, something that quick and
> dirty programmers can't understand. I also know how to use tools that
> track memory leaks.
Looks like you've never written a 600MB program.
>
>
> And lo The Heavenly Father doth rest. And whilst He rest, His hand
> accidentally brushed the keyboard and somehow keyed in the following code.
>
> Troller ivan = new Troller();
> ivan.setIrrational(true);
> ivan.setOverEmotional(true);
> ivan.setLife(null);
> ivan.setClue(null);
> ivan.setThinkingStyle(Psychosis.THINKING_STYLE_BLACK_AND_WHITE);
>
> ivan.setDailyRoutine(new Runnable() {
> public void run() {
> while(ivan.awake()) {
> Forum target = web.surfForUnsuspectingVictims();
> if(target != null) {
> Iterator i = target.getMessages();
> while(i.hasNext()) {
> ForumPosting intelligentPosting = (Posting) i.next();
> intelligentPosting.read();
> ForumPostingReplyFactory replyFactory =
> ivan.getPsychoticReponseGenerator();
> Reply reply = replyFactory.createResponse();
> while(reply.makesSense()) {
> reply.rant();
> reply.bitch();
> reply.whine();
> reply.moan();
> reply.saySomethingIrrational();
> }
> target.post(reply);
> ivan.setIQ(ivan.getIQ() - 1);
> }
> }
> }
> ivan.slapSelf(Slap.HARD);
> throw new IdiotTrollerException();
> }
> });
>
> ivan.run();
>
Hahahah :) That was a good one. You telling me to get a life and you have
time to do that? BTW
> Iterator i = target.getMessages();
> while(i.hasNext()) {
I really like how 1.5 has the for( Element e : collection ) loop. Don't you agree?
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Ivan Jouikov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 9:29 PM
> To: 'Tomcat Users List'
> Subject: RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto
> ever happen
>
>
> Ok let's settle this argument simple.
>
> Tonight, I'll ask my Christian Science friend to talk to Jesus, and ask
> him the following:
>
> "Jesus, if EL really DOES decrease performance significantly, and should
> not be used at all, please give me absolutely NO sign. However, if EL is
> a great thing and should be used by everyone, please give me a sign".
>
> I'll report to y
RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen
What the hell are you talking about? I am all for java. Java is my #1 language.
> Oh for crying out loud Ivan! You challanged my assertion that Java is the
> "number one language" asking for the source of the stats and I give them
> to you but you just go on whining. Please take your trolling somewhere
> else. Get A LIFE. and as to C++?
My trolling? I don't even know what that means. And I do have a life.
>
> > Huge file sizes
> I wonder what compiler, and linking options are you using? I do not have
> a problem with my executables being "huge" at all. Then again, I don't
> use frameworks that are inefficeint hogs. Sounds like the programmer.
Huge file sizes was said about C++ COMPARATIVELY to C. Any program in C++
will be much bigger than exactly same program in C.
>
> > 100% guaranteed memory leaks
> Sounds like the programmer. My code doesn't have memory leaks! Then
> again, I know how to write disciplined code, something that quick and
> dirty programmers can't understand. I also know how to use tools that
> track memory leaks.
Looks like you've never written a 600MB program.
>
>
> And lo The Heavenly Father doth rest. And whilst He rest, His hand
> accidentally brushed the keyboard and somehow keyed in the following code.
>
> Troller ivan = new Troller();
> ivan.setIrrational(true);
> ivan.setOverEmotional(true);
> ivan.setLife(null);
> ivan.setClue(null);
> ivan.setThinkingStyle(Psychosis.THINKING_STYLE_BLACK_AND_WHITE);
>
> ivan.setDailyRoutine(new Runnable() {
> public void run() {
> while(ivan.awake()) {
> Forum target = web.surfForUnsuspectingVictims();
> if(target != null) {
> Iterator i = target.getMessages();
> while(i.hasNext()) {
> ForumPosting intelligentPosting = (Posting) i.next();
> intelligentPosting.read();
> ForumPostingReplyFactory replyFactory =
> ivan.getPsychoticReponseGenerator();
> Reply reply = replyFactory.createResponse();
> while(reply.makesSense()) {
> reply.rant();
> reply.bitch();
> reply.whine();
> reply.moan();
> reply.saySomethingIrrational();
> }
> target.post(reply);
> ivan.setIQ(ivan.getIQ() - 1);
> }
> }
> }
> ivan.slapSelf(Slap.HARD);
> throw new IdiotTrollerException();
> }
> });
>
> ivan.run();
>
Hahahah :) That was a good one. You telling me to get a life and you have
time to do that? BTW
> Iterator i = target.getMessages();
> while(i.hasNext()) {
I really like how 1.5 has the for( Element e : collection ) loop. Don't you agree?
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Ivan Jouikov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 9:29 PM
> To: 'Tomcat Users List'
> Subject: RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto
> ever happen
>
>
> Ok let's settle this argument simple.
>
> Tonight, I'll ask my Christian Science friend to talk to Jesus, and ask
> him the following:
>
> "Jesus, if EL really DOES decrease performance significantly, and should
> not be used at all, please give me absolutely NO sign. However, if EL is
> a great thing and should be used by everyone, please give me a sign".
>
> I'll report to you in the morning and let you know what was God's opinion
> on that.
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: SANTOS, DANIEL (SBCSI) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 4:02 PM
> > To: Tomcat Users List
> > Subject: RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the
> worstthingsto
> > ever happen
> >
> > > >
> > > > If this is the case then I ask you why Java has been the number one
> > > > programming language for 4 years now?
> > > Source of this statistic?
> > >
> >
> > I assumed that this was fairly common knowledge. I remember when it
> > surpassed C++ in Febuary of 2000 (I thought at the time in development
> > hours). Having been a Java programmer since 1997, this was a pretty big
> > deal for me. I even remembered the month/year it happened (which made
> it
> > easire for me to find this report). So here is the original report, a
> > Bloor Research study from Febuary of 2000. It e
RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen
Oh for crying out loud Ivan! You challanged my assertion that Java is the "number one
language" asking for the source of the stats and I give them to you but you just go on
whining. Please take your trolling somewhere else. Get A LIFE. and as to C++?
> Huge file sizes
I wonder what compiler, and linking options are you using? I do not have a problem
with my executables being "huge" at all. Then again, I don't use frameworks that are
inefficeint hogs. Sounds like the programmer.
> 100% guaranteed memory leaks
Sounds like the programmer. My code doesn't have memory leaks! Then again, I know
how to write disciplined code, something that quick and dirty programmers can't
understand. I also know how to use tools that track memory leaks.
And lo The Heavenly Father doth rest. And whilst He rest, His hand accidentally
brushed the keyboard and somehow keyed in the following code.
Troller ivan = new Troller();
ivan.setIrrational(true);
ivan.setOverEmotional(true);
ivan.setLife(null);
ivan.setClue(null);
ivan.setThinkingStyle(Psychosis.THINKING_STYLE_BLACK_AND_WHITE);
ivan.setDailyRoutine(new Runnable() {
public void run() {
while(ivan.awake()) {
Forum target = web.surfForUnsuspectingVictims();
if(target != null) {
Iterator i = target.getMessages();
while(i.hasNext()) {
ForumPosting intelligentPosting = (Posting) i.next();
intelligentPosting.read();
ForumPostingReplyFactory replyFactory =
ivan.getPsychoticReponseGenerator();
Reply reply = replyFactory.createResponse();
while(reply.makesSense()) {
reply.rant();
reply.bitch();
reply.whine();
reply.moan();
reply.saySomethingIrrational();
}
target.post(reply);
ivan.setIQ(ivan.getIQ() - 1);
}
}
}
ivan.slapSelf(Slap.HARD);
throw new IdiotTrollerException();
}
});
ivan.run();
-Original Message-
From: Ivan Jouikov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 9:29 PM
To: 'Tomcat Users List'
Subject: RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen
Ok let's settle this argument simple.
Tonight, I'll ask my Christian Science friend to talk to Jesus, and ask him the
following:
"Jesus, if EL really DOES decrease performance significantly, and should not be used
at all, please give me absolutely NO sign. However, if EL is a great thing and should
be used by everyone, please give me a sign".
I'll report to you in the morning and let you know what was God's opinion on that.
> -Original Message-
> From: SANTOS, DANIEL (SBCSI) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 4:02 PM
> To: Tomcat Users List
> Subject: RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto
> ever happen
>
> > >
> > > If this is the case then I ask you why Java has been the number one
> > > programming language for 4 years now?
> > Source of this statistic?
> >
>
> I assumed that this was fairly common knowledge. I remember when it
> surpassed C++ in Febuary of 2000 (I thought at the time in development
> hours). Having been a Java programmer since 1997, this was a pretty big
> deal for me. I even remembered the month/year it happened (which made it
> easire for me to find this report). So here is the original report, a
> Bloor Research study from Febuary of 2000. It even has a cute little
> graph that plots the various languages-- http://www.bloor-
> research.com/research_library.php?pid=282
>
> Now that I look back at it I see that this is when the *demand* for java
> skills surpassed that of C++ skills. It looks like it was just March of
> last year
> (http://www.sun.com/aboutsun/media/presskits/edge2003/factsheet.pdf) that
> that Java actually surpassed C++ in development hours. This was of course
> the eventual outcome of it's demand surpassing all other skills. The data
> from this Sun press release is from the Gartner Group BTW.
>
> Java is King, there are really no "if"s, "and"s or "butt"s about it.
>
> As to your performance issues, I don't have them so I can only sugest that
> you can examine your environement, your compiler options (are you using
> hotspot?) and your getters. All of my bottlenecks are in my DB calls. I
> have done performance analysis and never came up in my EL. As I sugested
> earlier, maybe you can run hprof and see where the bottleneck really is?
>
> Also, I considere
Re: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen
I have used Java for both client, server, GUI apps, and clients haven't complaint about speed or look and feel. For the tag libs argument that web designers will have easier time with it than java, good luck! They have to learn them anyway to get things to work, and it's no different. Saying "tag libs separate model and view" is half true. It depends. It's probably good for tools to generate view using tag libs. For programmer, separating or not is their choice. Having a mixed languages in source code is hard to read. I think that people should use Java as much as possible, anywhere (view, model, what not). However, in the view area, you can also use tags if that speeds development time, or simplify thing, or if java is not possible to do so. In all cases, do not put model code in the view. In the view, if you use or if()..., they're both logics and no architural difference here. Harry Mantheakis wrote: Hello I agree that I find taglibs impossible to understand. Tag libraries are not actually that difficult, and offer many advantages. I just thought I would mention that, for the record :-) Harry Mantheakis London, UK - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen
Hello > I agree that I find taglibs impossible to understand. Tag libraries are not actually that difficult, and offer many advantages. I just thought I would mention that, for the record :-) Harry Mantheakis London, UK - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen
The problem with that approach, Ivan, is that your Christian Science friend
may not spot the sign when presented with it. Some people are like that.
They might not see a sign even if it consisted of getting slapped around the
face with a wet fish (or two wet fishes and five loaves, for that matter) --
or having it patiently described to them in a multitude of emails from
sincere mailing list subscribers.
So you've been using JSTL in earnest; and for whatever reason things got
confusing; you needed to make a radical decision to calm the confusion; so
you had your epiphany and became a "Born Again Scripleteer"; but there's no
need to get obnoxious, thumping your new Bible, and quoting "The Scriptlets
according to Saint Ivan", forcing them down everyone's throats. Instead,
just go about your business, productively, changing the world from your new
viewpoint and setting a good example.
Peace and religious tolerance,
Frank
- Original Message -
From: "Ivan Jouikov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Tomcat Users List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 3:28 AM
Subject: RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto
ever happen
Ok let's settle this argument simple.
Tonight, I'll ask my Christian Science friend to talk to Jesus, and ask him
the following:
"Jesus, if EL really DOES decrease performance significantly, and should not
be used at all, please give me absolutely NO sign. However, if EL is a
great thing and should be used by everyone, please give me a sign".
I'll report to you in the morning and let you know what was God's opinion on
that.
> -Original Message-
> From: SANTOS, DANIEL (SBCSI) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 4:02 PM
> To: Tomcat Users List
> Subject: RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto
> ever happen
>
> > >
> > > If this is the case then I ask you why Java has been the number one
> > > programming language for 4 years now?
> > Source of this statistic?
> >
>
> I assumed that this was fairly common knowledge. I remember when it
> surpassed C++ in Febuary of 2000 (I thought at the time in development
> hours). Having been a Java programmer since 1997, this was a pretty big
> deal for me. I even remembered the month/year it happened (which made it
> easire for me to find this report). So here is the original report, a
> Bloor Research study from Febuary of 2000. It even has a cute little
> graph that plots the various languages-- http://www.bloor-
> research.com/research_library.php?pid=282
>
> Now that I look back at it I see that this is when the *demand* for java
> skills surpassed that of C++ skills. It looks like it was just March of
> last year
> (http://www.sun.com/aboutsun/media/presskits/edge2003/factsheet.pdf) that
> that Java actually surpassed C++ in development hours. This was of course
> the eventual outcome of it's demand surpassing all other skills. The data
> from this Sun press release is from the Gartner Group BTW.
>
> Java is King, there are really no "if"s, "and"s or "butt"s about it.
>
> As to your performance issues, I don't have them so I can only sugest that
> you can examine your environement, your compiler options (are you using
> hotspot?) and your getters. All of my bottlenecks are in my DB calls. I
> have done performance analysis and never came up in my EL. As I sugested
> earlier, maybe you can run hprof and see where the bottleneck really is?
>
> Also, I considered myself a fairly hardcode C++ developer (having done it
> from '95 to 2002). If I am ever in a situation where my memory usage is
> critical, I'm almost certainly in C or C++. If performance is important,
> I consider C or C++. But IPC, threading, and networking is so
> phenominally better on Java not to mention the benefits of garbage
> collection and all of it's other features that I am hard pressed to leave
> it or go JNI. I did need JNI recently for some file system stuff that I
> wanted tweaked (traversing file systems with 100s of thousands of files).
>
> Daniel
>
> > > As was recognized long ago,
> > > performance is not everything. And in fact, means little
> > when you can't
> > > get your product out the door because you are still trying
> > to chase down
> > > memory leaks, buffer overruns and corrupted pointers.
> >
> > When performance dependes on whether you use <%=hello%>
> > or ${hello}, I'll stick with the first one, considering that
> > it boosts performance up by like 5 times.
> >
> > > As somebody else
> > >
RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen
very constructive!!! please could you don't use this list for yours great ideas We understood that you don't want to use jstl, it's your problem. -Message d'origine- De : Ivan Jouikov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Envoyà : mercredi 7 juillet 2004 09:56 à : 'Tomcat Users List' Objet : RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen > Subject: Re: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto > ever happen > > Oh, man, ... > > > Ok let's settle this argument simple. > > > > Tonight, I'll ask my Christian Science friend to talk to Jesus, > > Why not ask Jesus yourself? Prayer is open to anyone, and is not limited > to the night. Ehh not for me. I'm a heathen and I'm going straight to hell, so there's no point in even trying. Night is preferable because usually prayer goes hand in hand with virgin boy sacrifice, and there's less people around at night to hear the screams in the church basement. > > > and ask him the following: > > > > "Jesus, if EL really DOES decrease performance significantly, > > and should not be used at all, please give me absolutely NO sign. > > However, if EL is a great thing and should be used by everyone, please > > give me a sign". > > Are you sure you haven't been setting us up just so you could say that? > I'll admit, the 2LA for Expression Language causes me pause, but, ... > > Well, just in case you're serious, I'll mention Matthew 12, ca. 39. > Might also mention Gideon and his fleece. Huh? > > > I'll report to you in the morning and let you know what was God's > opinion on that. > > I have an idea what He would say: > >Use the tools you understand. Work hard. Be happy. >But don't insult other people by insulting their tools. > >And don't tweak people just because they use strange 2LAs >for their runtime expression languages. > > I might be wrong, of course. > > -- > Joel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.716 / Virus Database: 472 - Release Date: 05.07.2004 > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.716 / Virus Database: 472 - Release Date: 05.07.2004 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]--- Interscan -- (on antivirus) email-body was scanned and no virus found - Traite Par Interscan -- (on antivirus)-- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen
> Subject: Re: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto > ever happen > > Oh, man, ... > > > Ok let's settle this argument simple. > > > > Tonight, I'll ask my Christian Science friend to talk to Jesus, > > Why not ask Jesus yourself? Prayer is open to anyone, and is not limited > to the night. Ehh not for me. I'm a heathen and I'm going straight to hell, so there's no point in even trying. Night is preferable because usually prayer goes hand in hand with virgin boy sacrifice, and there's less people around at night to hear the screams in the church basement. > > > and ask him the following: > > > > "Jesus, if EL really DOES decrease performance significantly, > > and should not be used at all, please give me absolutely NO sign. > > However, if EL is a great thing and should be used by everyone, please > > give me a sign". > > Are you sure you haven't been setting us up just so you could say that? > I'll admit, the 2LA for Expression Language causes me pause, but, ... > > Well, just in case you're serious, I'll mention Matthew 12, ca. 39. > Might also mention Gideon and his fleece. Huh? > > > I'll report to you in the morning and let you know what was God's > opinion on that. > > I have an idea what He would say: > >Use the tools you understand. Work hard. Be happy. >But don't insult other people by insulting their tools. > >And don't tweak people just because they use strange 2LAs >for their runtime expression languages. > > I might be wrong, of course. > > -- > Joel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.716 / Virus Database: 472 - Release Date: 05.07.2004 > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.716 / Virus Database: 472 - Release Date: 05.07.2004 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen
Oh, man, ... > Ok let's settle this argument simple. > > Tonight, I'll ask my Christian Science friend to talk to Jesus, Why not ask Jesus yourself? Prayer is open to anyone, and is not limited to the night. > and ask him the following: > > "Jesus, if EL really DOES decrease performance significantly, > and should not be used at all, please give me absolutely NO sign. > However, if EL is a great thing and should be used by everyone, please > give me a sign". Are you sure you haven't been setting us up just so you could say that? I'll admit, the 2LA for Expression Language causes me pause, but, ... Well, just in case you're serious, I'll mention Matthew 12, ca. 39. Might also mention Gideon and his fleece. > I'll report to you in the morning and let you know what was God's opinion on that. I have an idea what He would say: Use the tools you understand. Work hard. Be happy. But don't insult other people by insulting their tools. And don't tweak people just because they use strange 2LAs for their runtime expression languages. I might be wrong, of course. -- Joel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen
To beat a dead horse, religious arguments notwithstanding ...
I agree that I find taglibs impossible to understand. I end up
compiling the jsp to a servlet, then using the servlet as a skeleton
that I refine and tune, and I finally dispose of the original jsp simply
because I can't wrap my head around taglibs. To me, Java is simpler and
easier for me to understand than the "black magic" of the taglibs.
However, GUI designers aren't programmers, and they typically find java
as impossible to understand as I find taglibs. If your shop has good
separation of GUI and applications disciplines, taglibs are an
indispensable bridge between the disciplines.
C versus C++ ...
In my comparative performance tests of Java (sun jre 1.4.2 b03) versus
compiled languages, Java had raw performance within 10% of the compiled
language. This was not an exhaustive test, but one that was intended to
hit Java's weakest point relative to a native compiler. Both sets of
code were as identical as the language intents allowed, and were
iterated through several identical optimizations to pinpoint different
bottlenecks.
The 10% performance hit was pinpointed to the stackframe that is built
with every {} pair in Java, which in turn eliminates an entire class of
memory leak errors.
For a 10% performance hit, I can live with Java for application
programming. However, I recognize that there are places where that hit
is critical, and I would use a compiled language (probably not C++, I'd
prefer pascal derivatives or even assembly, but language is a personal
preference, not a functional issue now days).
-
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RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen
Ok let's settle this argument simple.
Tonight, I'll ask my Christian Science friend to talk to Jesus, and ask him the
following:
"Jesus, if EL really DOES decrease performance significantly, and should not be used
at all, please give me absolutely NO sign. However, if EL is a great thing and should
be used by everyone, please give me a sign".
I'll report to you in the morning and let you know what was God's opinion on that.
> -Original Message-
> From: SANTOS, DANIEL (SBCSI) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 4:02 PM
> To: Tomcat Users List
> Subject: RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto
> ever happen
>
> > >
> > > If this is the case then I ask you why Java has been the number one
> > > programming language for 4 years now?
> > Source of this statistic?
> >
>
> I assumed that this was fairly common knowledge. I remember when it
> surpassed C++ in Febuary of 2000 (I thought at the time in development
> hours). Having been a Java programmer since 1997, this was a pretty big
> deal for me. I even remembered the month/year it happened (which made it
> easire for me to find this report). So here is the original report, a
> Bloor Research study from Febuary of 2000. It even has a cute little
> graph that plots the various languages-- http://www.bloor-
> research.com/research_library.php?pid=282
>
> Now that I look back at it I see that this is when the *demand* for java
> skills surpassed that of C++ skills. It looks like it was just March of
> last year
> (http://www.sun.com/aboutsun/media/presskits/edge2003/factsheet.pdf) that
> that Java actually surpassed C++ in development hours. This was of course
> the eventual outcome of it's demand surpassing all other skills. The data
> from this Sun press release is from the Gartner Group BTW.
>
> Java is King, there are really no "if"s, "and"s or "butt"s about it.
>
> As to your performance issues, I don't have them so I can only sugest that
> you can examine your environement, your compiler options (are you using
> hotspot?) and your getters. All of my bottlenecks are in my DB calls. I
> have done performance analysis and never came up in my EL. As I sugested
> earlier, maybe you can run hprof and see where the bottleneck really is?
>
> Also, I considered myself a fairly hardcode C++ developer (having done it
> from '95 to 2002). If I am ever in a situation where my memory usage is
> critical, I'm almost certainly in C or C++. If performance is important,
> I consider C or C++. But IPC, threading, and networking is so
> phenominally better on Java not to mention the benefits of garbage
> collection and all of it's other features that I am hard pressed to leave
> it or go JNI. I did need JNI recently for some file system stuff that I
> wanted tweaked (traversing file systems with 100s of thousands of files).
>
> Daniel
>
> > > As was recognized long ago,
> > > performance is not everything. And in fact, means little
> > when you can't
> > > get your product out the door because you are still trying
> > to chase down
> > > memory leaks, buffer overruns and corrupted pointers.
> >
> > When performance dependes on whether you use <%=hello%>
> > or ${hello}, I'll stick with the first one, considering that
> > it boosts performance up by like 5 times.
> >
> > > As somebody else
> > > said, C++ programmers will understand this.
> > >
> > > Daniel
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Eric VERGNAUD [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 11:33 AM
> > > To: Tomcat Users List
> > > Subject: Re: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of
> > the worstthingsto
> > > ever happen
> > >
> > >
> > > le 4/07/04 14:27, SH Solutions Ð [EMAIL PROTECTED] a Ðcrit :
> > >
> > > > Right now, I would say that java applications (if well
> > written) are at
> > > least
> > > > half as fast as c applications (also well written).
> > >
> > > Which means that when your java app is in competition with
> > a native app,
> > > youve lost the market.
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Eric VERGNAUD - JLynx Software
> > > Cutting-edge technologies and
> > > services for software companies
> > > web: http://www.jlynx.com
> > > ---
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen
> >
> > If this is the case then I ask you why Java has been the number one
> > programming language for 4 years now?
> Source of this statistic?
>
I assumed that this was fairly common knowledge. I remember when it surpassed C++ in
Febuary of 2000 (I thought at the time in development hours). Having been a Java
programmer since 1997, this was a pretty big deal for me. I even remembered the
month/year it happened (which made it easire for me to find this report). So here is
the original report, a Bloor Research study from Febuary of 2000. It even has a cute
little graph that plots the various languages--
http://www.bloor-research.com/research_library.php?pid=282
Now that I look back at it I see that this is when the *demand* for java skills
surpassed that of C++ skills. It looks like it was just March of last year
(http://www.sun.com/aboutsun/media/presskits/edge2003/factsheet.pdf) that that Java
actually surpassed C++ in development hours. This was of course the eventual outcome
of it's demand surpassing all other skills. The data from this Sun press release is
from the Gartner Group BTW.
Java is King, there are really no "if"s, "and"s or "butt"s about it.
As to your performance issues, I don't have them so I can only sugest that you can
examine your environement, your compiler options (are you using hotspot?) and your
getters. All of my bottlenecks are in my DB calls. I have done performance analysis
and never came up in my EL. As I sugested earlier, maybe you can run hprof and see
where the bottleneck really is?
Also, I considered myself a fairly hardcode C++ developer (having done it from '95 to
2002). If I am ever in a situation where my memory usage is critical, I'm almost
certainly in C or C++. If performance is important, I consider C or C++. But IPC,
threading, and networking is so phenominally better on Java not to mention the
benefits of garbage collection and all of it's other features that I am hard pressed
to leave it or go JNI. I did need JNI recently for some file system stuff that I
wanted tweaked (traversing file systems with 100s of thousands of files).
Daniel
> > As was recognized long ago,
> > performance is not everything. And in fact, means little
> when you can't
> > get your product out the door because you are still trying
> to chase down
> > memory leaks, buffer overruns and corrupted pointers.
>
> When performance dependes on whether you use <%=hello%>
> or ${hello}, I'll stick with the first one, considering that
> it boosts performance up by like 5 times.
>
> > As somebody else
> > said, C++ programmers will understand this.
> >
> > Daniel
> >
> > -Original Message-----
> > From: Eric VERGNAUD [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 11:33 AM
> > To: Tomcat Users List
> > Subject: Re: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of
> the worstthingsto
> > ever happen
> >
> >
> > le 4/07/04 14:27, SH Solutions а [EMAIL PROTECTED] a йcrit :
> >
> > > Right now, I would say that java applications (if well
> written) are at
> > least
> > > half as fast as c applications (also well written).
> >
> > Which means that when your java app is in competition with
> a native app,
> > youve lost the market.
> >
> > ---
> > Eric VERGNAUD - JLynx Software
> > Cutting-edge technologies and
> > services for software companies
> > web: http://www.jlynx.com
> > ---
> >
> >
> >
> -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >
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RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen
Is it? Hope you don't lie. Do you? -Original Message- From: Ivan Jouikov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 3:28 PM To: 'Tomcat Users List' Subject: RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen Jesus agrees with me. > -Original Message- > From: Laurence Arabia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 11:08 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto > ever happen > > > Exactly I agree when you are dealing with a team of 30+ delvelopers you > either hold reviews every month and tie everyone down to a structure that > evolves causing confusion and rewrites or the whole lot goes to pot. Which > is fine if you work for a finance house with buckets of money but where > productivity is more important than process C++ would not be my choice. > Degres of abstraction are more difficult to attain. I would like to hear > the opinion of a hardcore C++ programmer. Cause I would like to know the > faults in this argument as I am sure there is. The performance question I > think is almost irrelvant. If you want performance write C/Assembler in a > kernel module perferably but ultimately its comes back to a some > marshalling > code whose structure has to be easily evolved and adapted its nature is > almost disposable as protocols and business rules change. > > Whats the opinion on gcj ? > > > >From: "SANTOS, DANIEL (SBCSI)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: "Tomcat Users List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: "Tomcat Users List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the > worstthingsto > >ever happen Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 12:22:25 -0500 > > > >If this is the case then I ask you why Java has been the number one > >programming language for 4 years now? As was recognized long ago, > >performance is not everything. And in fact, means little when you can't > >get your product out the door because you are still trying to chase down > >memory leaks, buffer overruns and corrupted pointers. As somebody else > >said, C++ programmers will understand this. > > > >Daniel > > > >-Original Message- > >From: Eric VERGNAUD [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 11:33 AM > >To: Tomcat Users List > >Subject: Re: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the > worstthingsto > >ever happen > > > > > >le 4/07/04 14:27, SH Solutions Ð [EMAIL PROTECTED] a Ðcrit : > > > > > Right now, I would say that java applications (if well written) are at > >least > > > half as fast as c applications (also well written). > > > >Which means that when your java app is in competition with a native app, > >youve lost the market. > > > >--- > >Eric VERGNAUD - JLynx Software > >Cutting-edge technologies and > >services for software companies > >web: http://www.jlynx.com > >--- > > > > > >- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > >- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > _ > Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! > http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.716 / Virus Database: 472 - Release Date: 05.07.2004 > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.716 / Virus Database: 472 - Release Date: 05.07.2004 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen
Jesus agrees with me. > -Original Message- > From: Laurence Arabia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 11:08 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto > ever happen > > > Exactly I agree when you are dealing with a team of 30+ delvelopers you > either hold reviews every month and tie everyone down to a structure that > evolves causing confusion and rewrites or the whole lot goes to pot. Which > is fine if you work for a finance house with buckets of money but where > productivity is more important than process C++ would not be my choice. > Degres of abstraction are more difficult to attain. I would like to hear > the opinion of a hardcore C++ programmer. Cause I would like to know the > faults in this argument as I am sure there is. The performance question I > think is almost irrelvant. If you want performance write C/Assembler in a > kernel module perferably but ultimately its comes back to a some > marshalling > code whose structure has to be easily evolved and adapted its nature is > almost disposable as protocols and business rules change. > > Whats the opinion on gcj ? > > > >From: "SANTOS, DANIEL (SBCSI)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: "Tomcat Users List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: "Tomcat Users List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the > worstthingsto > >ever happen Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 12:22:25 -0500 > > > >If this is the case then I ask you why Java has been the number one > >programming language for 4 years now? As was recognized long ago, > >performance is not everything. And in fact, means little when you can't > >get your product out the door because you are still trying to chase down > >memory leaks, buffer overruns and corrupted pointers. As somebody else > >said, C++ programmers will understand this. > > > >Daniel > > > >-Original Message- > >From: Eric VERGNAUD [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 11:33 AM > >To: Tomcat Users List > >Subject: Re: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the > worstthingsto > >ever happen > > > > > >le 4/07/04 14:27, SH Solutions Ð [EMAIL PROTECTED] a Ðcrit : > > > > > Right now, I would say that java applications (if well written) are at > >least > > > half as fast as c applications (also well written). > > > >Which means that when your java app is in competition with a native app, > >youve lost the market. > > > >--- > >Eric VERGNAUD - JLynx Software > >Cutting-edge technologies and > >services for software companies > >web: http://www.jlynx.com > >--- > > > > > >- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > >- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > _ > Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! > http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.716 / Virus Database: 472 - Release Date: 05.07.2004 > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.716 / Virus Database: 472 - Release Date: 05.07.2004 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen
>
> If this is the case then I ask you why Java has been the number one
> programming language for 4 years now?
Source of this statistic?
> As was recognized long ago,
> performance is not everything. And in fact, means little when you can't
> get your product out the door because you are still trying to chase down
> memory leaks, buffer overruns and corrupted pointers.
When performance dependes on whether you use <%=hello%> or ${hello}, I'll
stick with the first one, considering that it boosts performance up by like 5 times.
> As somebody else
> said, C++ programmers will understand this.
>
> Daniel
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Eric VERGNAUD [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 11:33 AM
> To: Tomcat Users List
> Subject: Re: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto
> ever happen
>
>
> le 4/07/04 14:27, SH Solutions Ð [EMAIL PROTECTED] a Ðcrit :
>
> > Right now, I would say that java applications (if well written) are at
> least
> > half as fast as c applications (also well written).
>
> Which means that when your java app is in competition with a native app,
> youve lost the market.
>
> ---
> Eric VERGNAUD - JLynx Software
> Cutting-edge technologies and
> services for software companies
> web: http://www.jlynx.com
> ---
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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>
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RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen
Exactly I agree when you are dealing with a team of 30+ delvelopers you either hold reviews every month and tie everyone down to a structure that evolves causing confusion and rewrites or the whole lot goes to pot. Which is fine if you work for a finance house with buckets of money but where productivity is more important than process C++ would not be my choice. Degres of abstraction are more difficult to attain. I would like to hear the opinion of a hardcore C++ programmer. Cause I would like to know the faults in this argument as I am sure there is. The performance question I think is almost irrelvant. If you want performance write C/Assembler in a kernel module perferably but ultimately its comes back to a some marshalling code whose structure has to be easily evolved and adapted its nature is almost disposable as protocols and business rules change. Whats the opinion on gcj ? From: "SANTOS, DANIEL (SBCSI)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: "Tomcat Users List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Tomcat Users List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 12:22:25 -0500 If this is the case then I ask you why Java has been the number one programming language for 4 years now? As was recognized long ago, performance is not everything. And in fact, means little when you can't get your product out the door because you are still trying to chase down memory leaks, buffer overruns and corrupted pointers. As somebody else said, C++ programmers will understand this. Daniel -Original Message- From: Eric VERGNAUD [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 11:33 AM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Re: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen le 4/07/04 14:27, SH Solutions à [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : > Right now, I would say that java applications (if well written) are at least > half as fast as c applications (also well written). Which means that when your java app is in competition with a native app, youve lost the market. --- Eric VERGNAUD - JLynx Software Cutting-edge technologies and services for software companies web: http://www.jlynx.com --- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen
If this is the case then I ask you why Java has been the number one programming language for 4 years now? As was recognized long ago, performance is not everything. And in fact, means little when you can't get your product out the door because you are still trying to chase down memory leaks, buffer overruns and corrupted pointers. As somebody else said, C++ programmers will understand this. Daniel -Original Message- From: Eric VERGNAUD [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 11:33 AM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Re: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen le 4/07/04 14:27, SH Solutions à [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : > Right now, I would say that java applications (if well written) are at least > half as fast as c applications (also well written). Which means that when your java app is in competition with a native app, youve lost the market. --- Eric VERGNAUD - JLynx Software Cutting-edge technologies and services for software companies web: http://www.jlynx.com --- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen
I made the mistake before of using the same rules for server application writing to Client or Editor type apps. Now in MFC you may be able to get away with this. But in Swing No. I got really good "(!look and) feel" when I changed to using "Interfaces, Listeners, Events" literally all over the place. The only thing the "action" did was paint the frame and register listeners maybe send an event. And this worked really well. When I was trying to process then paint sequentially it was a dog. This does make it harder to debug but then again that comes down allot repitition. As far as look goes Swing does not look as well as the native stuff and the help of a good graphic designer is needed. Thats my take on using java for Editor type apps. I would not rule java out but you have to have done a few swing apps before it is comparable. Its a matter of getting used to the threading I believe. But I am now expert in MVC stuff. The stability was great using listeners cause paint never hung. It may not of got data but at least it did not hang as happened before. > The reason they're stable? Those who worked with C++ syntax and java > syntax will understand this. > > -Original Message- > From: SH Solutions [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 9:43 AM > To: 'Tomcat Users List' > Subject: RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the > worstthingsto ever happen > > Hi > >> > Right now, I would say that java applications (if well written) are >> > at least half as fast as c applications (also well written). > >> Which means that when your java app is in competition with a native >> app, > youve lost the market. > > In some very rare situations, maybe. Most software nowadays is waiting > for the user 99% of the time. > And even, when speed is important, reliability is always more > important. In general, Java programs turn out to be much more stable. > > Furthermore, they are plattform independent. > > Regards, > Steffen > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For > additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.701 / Virus Database: 458 - Release Date: 07.06.2004 > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.701 / Virus Database: 458 - Release Date: 07.06.2004 > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For > additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Shane O'hanlon CTO. DBAM Software A realtime turnover - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen
The reason they're stable? Those who worked with C++ syntax and java syntax will understand this. -Original Message- From: SH Solutions [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 9:43 AM To: 'Tomcat Users List' Subject: RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen Hi > > Right now, I would say that java applications (if well written) are at > > least half as fast as c applications (also well written). > Which means that when your java app is in competition with a native app, youve lost the market. In some very rare situations, maybe. Most software nowadays is waiting for the user 99% of the time. And even, when speed is important, reliability is always more important. In general, Java programs turn out to be much more stable. Furthermore, they are plattform independent. Regards, Steffen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.701 / Virus Database: 458 - Release Date: 07.06.2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.701 / Virus Database: 458 - Release Date: 07.06.2004 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen
Hi > > Right now, I would say that java applications (if well written) are at > > least half as fast as c applications (also well written). > Which means that when your java app is in competition with a native app, youve lost the market. In some very rare situations, maybe. Most software nowadays is waiting for the user 99% of the time. And even, when speed is important, reliability is always more important. In general, Java programs turn out to be much more stable. Furthermore, they are plattform independent. Regards, Steffen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
