Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-24 Thread Lance Muir



Kevin demonstrates the ability to 'google' (Lance). 
Actually, I'd vote for his wife over him. (GWB)

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 23, 2005 16:15
  Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] 
  [TruthTalk] baptism
  
  Lance wrote:  ... Christine sounds pretty brainwashed to 
  me.
  Why is it that the lib's are always, so conceited in their opinion of 
  themselves?
  
  Quotes from lances friends:
  
  “I despise him [President George W. Bush]. I despise his administration and 
  everything they stand forTo my mind the election was stolen by George Bush 
  and we have been suffering ever since under this man's leadershipThere has 
  to be a movement now to really oppose what he is proposing because it's 
  unconstitutional, it's immoral and basically illegalIt is an embarrassing 
  time to be an American. It really is. It's humiliating.” — Actress Jessica 
  Lange at a film festival in Spain, September 25.
  "Free Enterprise really means rich people get richer. They have the 
  freedom to exploit and psychologically rape their fellow human beings in the 
  process . . . Capitalism is destroying the earth. "-- Helen Caldicott, Union 
  of Concerned Scientists 
  
  "To feed a starving child is to exacerbate the world population 
  problem"-- Lamont Cole 
  
  "I suspect that eradicating small pox was wrong. It played an important 
  part in balancing ecosystems." -- John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal 
  
  
  Human beings, as a species, have no more value than slugs." -- John 
  Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal 
  
  "The purpose of government is to rein in the rights of the people" 
  -- Bill Clinton 1993 on MTV 
  
  "(W)hen Communist U.S.S.R. was a superpower, the world was better off. 
  The right-wing media is trying to marginalize the peace movement." -- Janeane 
  Garofalo 
  
  "The WTC was not just an architectural monstrosity, but also terrible for 
  people who didn't work there, for it said to all those people: 'If you can't 
  work up here, boy, you're out of it.' That's why I'm sure that if those towers 
  had been destroyed without loss of life, a lot of people would have cheered. 
  Everything wrong with America led to the point where the country built that 
  tower of Babel, which consequently had to be destroyed. And then came the next 
  shock. We had to realize that the people that did this were brilliant. It 
  showed that the ego we could hold up until September 10 was inadequate." -- 
  Norman Mailer 
  David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Lance 
wrote:  ... Christine sounds pretty brainwashed to me.Oh, please 
stop with the ad hominem remarks. At least she has a brain to wash and 
is found now to be pure.Every one of us indoctrinate each other. The 
question is, which doctrine do we submit ourselves unto? Are we washing 
our brains with the doctrine of Christ or with the liberal theology of 
demons?Ephesians 2:1-6(1) And you hath he quickened, who were 
dead in trespasses and sins;(2) Wherein IN TIME PAST YE WALKED ACCORDING 
TO THE COURSE OF THIS WORLD, according to the prince of the power of the 
air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:(3) 
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts 
of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and 
were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.(4) But God, 
who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,(5) Even 
when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by 
grace ye are saved;)(6) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit 
together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:Peace be with 
you.David Miller. --"Let your speech be always 
with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer 
every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not 
want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
  __Do You 
  Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
  http://mail.yahoo.com 


Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-23 Thread David Miller
Lance wrote:
 ... Christine sounds pretty brainwashed to me.

Oh, please stop with the ad hominem remarks.  At least she has a brain to 
wash and is found now to be pure.

Every one of us indoctrinate each other.  The question is, which doctrine do 
we submit ourselves unto?  Are we washing our brains with the doctrine of 
Christ or with the liberal theology of demons?

Ephesians 2:1-6
(1) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
(2) Wherein IN TIME PAST YE WALKED ACCORDING TO THE COURSE OF THIS WORLD, 
according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh 
in the children of disobedience:
(3) Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts 
of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were 
by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
(4) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
(5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, 
(by grace ye are saved;)
(6) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly 
places in Christ Jesus:

Peace be with you.
David Miller. 


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.


Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-23 Thread Lance Muir
Thanks David for the multitude of scriptural quotations. I stand by what I
said. It's the acorn and tree thingy.
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: May 23, 2005 11:37
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism


 Lance wrote:
  ... Christine sounds pretty brainwashed to me.

 Oh, please stop with the ad hominem remarks.  At least she has a brain to
 wash and is found now to be pure.

 Every one of us indoctrinate each other.  The question is, which doctrine
do
 we submit ourselves unto?  Are we washing our brains with the doctrine of
 Christ or with the liberal theology of demons?

 Ephesians 2:1-6
 (1) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
 (2) Wherein IN TIME PAST YE WALKED ACCORDING TO THE COURSE OF THIS WORLD,
 according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now
worketh
 in the children of disobedience:
 (3) Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts
 of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and
were
 by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
 (4) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved
us,
 (5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with
Christ,
 (by grace ye are saved;)
 (6) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly
 places in Christ Jesus:

 Peace be with you.
 David Miller.


 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.


RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-23 Thread ShieldsFamily
Which in this case is a very good thingy! Izzy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 9:58 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

Thanks David for the multitude of scriptural quotations. I stand by what I
said. It's the acorn and tree thingy.
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: May 23, 2005 11:37
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism


 Lance wrote:
  ... Christine sounds pretty brainwashed to me.

 Oh, please stop with the ad hominem remarks.  At least she has a brain to
 wash and is found now to be pure.

 Every one of us indoctrinate each other.  The question is, which doctrine
do
 we submit ourselves unto?  Are we washing our brains with the doctrine of
 Christ or with the liberal theology of demons?

 Ephesians 2:1-6
 (1) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
 (2) Wherein IN TIME PAST YE WALKED ACCORDING TO THE COURSE OF THIS WORLD,
 according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now
worketh
 in the children of disobedience:
 (3) Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts
 of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and
were
 by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
 (4) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved
us,
 (5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with
Christ,
 (by grace ye are saved;)
 (6) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly
 places in Christ Jesus:

 Peace be with you.
 David Miller.


 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.



--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.


Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-23 Thread Kevin Deegan
Lance wrote:  ... Christine sounds pretty brainwashed to me.
Why is it that the lib's are always, so conceited in their opinion of themselves?

Quotes from lances friends:

“I despise him [President George W. Bush]. I despise his administration and everything they stand forTo my mind the election was stolen by George Bush and we have been suffering ever since under this man's leadershipThere has to be a movement now to really oppose what he is proposing because it's unconstitutional, it's immoral and basically illegalIt is an embarrassing time to be an American. It really is. It's humiliating.” — Actress Jessica Lange at a film festival in Spain, September 25.
"Free Enterprise really means rich people get richer. They have the freedom to exploit and psychologically rape their fellow human beings in the process . . . Capitalism is destroying the earth. "-- Helen Caldicott, Union of Concerned Scientists 

"To feed a starving child is to exacerbate the world population problem"-- Lamont Cole 

"I suspect that eradicating small pox was wrong. It played an important part in balancing ecosystems." -- John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal 

Human beings, as a species, have no more value than slugs." -- John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal 

"The purpose of government is to rein in the rights of the people" -- Bill Clinton 1993 on MTV 

"(W)hen Communist U.S.S.R. was a superpower, the world was better off. The right-wing media is trying to marginalize the peace movement." -- Janeane Garofalo 

"The WTC was not just an architectural monstrosity, but also terrible for people who didn't work there, for it said to all those people: 'If you can't work up here, boy, you're out of it.' That's why I'm sure that if those towers had been destroyed without loss of life, a lot of people would have cheered. Everything wrong with America led to the point where the country built that tower of Babel, which consequently had to be destroyed. And then came the next shock. We had to realize that the people that did this were brilliant. It showed that the ego we could hold up until September 10 was inadequate." -- Norman Mailer 
David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Lance wrote:  ... Christine sounds pretty brainwashed to me.Oh, please stop with the ad hominem remarks. At least she has a brain to wash and is found now to be pure.Every one of us indoctrinate each other. The question is, which doctrine do we submit ourselves unto? Are we washing our brains with the doctrine of Christ or with the liberal theology of demons?Ephesians 2:1-6(1) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;(2) Wherein IN TIME PAST YE WALKED ACCORDING TO THE COURSE OF THIS WORLD, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:(3) Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.(4)
 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,(5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)(6) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:Peace be with you.David Miller. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-21 Thread Kevin Deegan
You don't have any idea what we are talking about, do you, Kevin. You seem to be motivated by whatever comes to mind while I have been onpoint

You get so confused, Linda.I'll bet you are the kind of person who starts thinking about what you want to say just as soon as someone else starts talking.
you have an "eye" problem JD
psycho analeyes 101

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



You get so confused, Linda. It was not my opinion but Lance's. I'll bet you are the kind of person who starts thinking about what you want to say just as soon as someone else starts talking. That seems to explain how you can get so confused and off point. Pay attention -- but finish drying off first. 

JD-Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 20 May 2005 22:26:22 -0500Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism






Let me guess—You had that opinion before she ever said a word on TT, right? How’d I guess? Izzy





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 9:09 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism




Expressing an opinion and "name calling" are two very different things -- but you know this.
-Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 20 May 2005 17:10:00 -0500Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism


Note the Liberal name-calling. 







From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, May 20, 2005 3:23 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism




I dunno David, Christine sounds pretty brainwashed to me.



- Original Message - 


From: David Miller 


To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 


Sent: May 18, 2005 09:13


Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism






Caroline Wong wrote:


 Words wound, David.





Words that wound one person might alsoheal and liberate another person. Jesus said, "blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me." We cannot judge the value of words based upon whether or not somebody in society does not like them. This is Liberty 101.





Peace be with you.David Miller.__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-20 Thread Lance Muir



I dunno David, Christine sounds pretty brainwashed 
to me.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  David Miller 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 18, 2005 09:13
  Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] 
  baptism
  
  
  Caroline Wong wrote:
   Words wound, 
  David.
  
  Words that wound one person might alsoheal and liberate another 
  person. Jesus said, "blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in 
  me." We cannot judge the value of words based upon whether or not 
  somebody in society does not like them. This is Liberty 101.
  
  Peace be with you.David Miller.


RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-20 Thread ShieldsFamily








Note the Liberal name-calling. 











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 3:23 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk]
[TruthTalk] baptism







I dunno David, Christine
sounds pretty brainwashed to me.







- Original Message - 





From: David Miller 





To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: May 18, 2005 09:13





Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk]
[TruthTalk] baptism













Caroline Wong wrote:





 Words wound, David.











Words that wound one person might alsoheal and liberate another
person. Jesus said, blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended
in me. We cannot judge the value of words based upon whether or not
somebody in society does not like them. This is Liberty 101.











Peace be with you.
David Miller.














Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-20 Thread knpraise

Expressing an opinion and "name calling" are two very different things -- but you know this.-Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 20 May 2005 17:10:00 -0500Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism






Note the Liberal name-calling. 





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, May 20, 2005 3:23 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism


I dunno David, Christine sounds pretty brainwashed to me.


- Original Message - 

From: David Miller 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: May 18, 2005 09:13

Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism




Caroline Wong wrote:

 Words wound, David.



Words that wound one person might alsoheal and liberate another person. Jesus said, "blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me." We cannot judge the value of words based upon whether or not somebody in society does not like them. This is Liberty 101.



Peace be with you.David Miller.


RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-20 Thread Kevin Deegan
Note the free rideShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:









Note the Liberal name-calling. 





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, May 20, 2005 3:23 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism


I dunno David, Christine sounds pretty brainwashed to me.


- Original Message - 

From: David Miller 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: May 18, 2005 09:13

Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism




Caroline Wong wrote:

 Words wound, David.



Words that wound one person might alsoheal and liberate another person. Jesus said, "blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me." We cannot judge the value of words based upon whether or not somebody in society does not like them. This is Liberty 101.



Peace be with you.David Miller.
		Yahoo! Mail 
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour

RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-20 Thread ShieldsFamily








Let me guessYou had that opinion
before she ever said a word on TT, right? Howd I guess? Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 9:09 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk]
[TruthTalk] baptism











Expressing an opinion and name calling are two
very different things -- but you know this.




-Original Message-
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Fri, 20 May 2005 17:10:00 -0500
Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism





Note the Liberal name-calling. 



















From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 3:23 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk]
[TruthTalk] baptism















I dunno David, Christine
sounds pretty brainwashed to me.











- Original Message - 









From: David Miller 









To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 









Sent: May 18, 2005 09:13









Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk]
[TruthTalk] baptism





















Caroline Wong wrote:









 Words wound, David.



















Words that wound one person might alsoheal and liberate another
person. Jesus said, blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended
in me. We cannot judge the value of words based upon whether or not
somebody in society does not like them. This is Liberty
101.



















Peace be with you.
David Miller.






















Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-20 Thread knpraise

You get so confused, Linda. It was not my opinion but Lance's. I'll bet you are the kind of person who starts thinking about what you want to say just as soon as someone else starts talking. That seems to explain how you can get so confused and off point. Pay attention -- but finish drying off first. 

JD-Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 20 May 2005 22:26:22 -0500Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism






Let me guessYou had that opinion before she ever said a word on TT, right? Howd I guess? Izzy





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 9:09 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism




Expressing an opinion and "name calling" are two very different things -- but you know this.
-Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 20 May 2005 17:10:00 -0500Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism


Note the Liberal name-calling. 







From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, May 20, 2005 3:23 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism




I dunno David, Christine sounds pretty brainwashed to me.



- Original Message - 


From: David Miller 


To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 


Sent: May 18, 2005 09:13


Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism






Caroline Wong wrote:


 Words wound, David.





Words that wound one person might alsoheal and liberate another person. Jesus said, "blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me." We cannot judge the value of words based upon whether or not somebody in society does not like them. This is Liberty 101.





Peace be with you.David Miller.


RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-16 Thread ShieldsFamily








Raymond, note that I went back and ALSO
showed you the scriptures that said GOD hardened Pharaohs heart; did you
read those??? I also asked if you believe ALL of those scriptures, or
only the ones that you agree with. Im still waiting for answer,
please. Id really like to know. Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bothoms
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 1:56 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk]
[TruthTalk] baptism







Look ! I answered the question. The question was Have you
not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the
Lord hardened Pharaohs heart?



I
answered that I have read Exodus -- in fact, I probably know the book
better than you. As for the other part of the question, I quoted verses
that say that Pharaoh hardened his own heart. Go back and read it .
And not just selectively read it.





Kevin Deegan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:







OK the question was 
do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened
Pharaohs heart?



and?




Bothoms
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:







I did and my reply was suited to it.

Kevin Deegan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 



Read the rest of the post!





Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read
the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord
hardened Pharaohs heart?



See the ?
that indicates a QUESTION





Bothoms
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:







Are you a nut?

Kevin Deegan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 



Have you noticed? Raymond is not able to answer any questions!





Q What color is your shirt?





A I like golf.











Q Which way to Canada?





A I Drive a chevy.

Bothoms
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:







Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus,
or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs
heart?

Raymond: Yes, I have read Exodus. Take a look
at the following

And the magicians of Egypt did so with their
enchantments: and Pharaohs heart was
hardened, neither did he hearken unto
them; as the LORD had said. And Pharaoh turned and went into his house, neither did he set his heart to this also.
(Ex 7:22-23)

But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had
said. (Ex 8:15)

Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaohs heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had
said. (Ex 8:19)

And Pharaoh
hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the
people go. (Ex 8:32)

And Pharaoh sent, and, behold, there was not one of
the cattle of the Israelites dead. And the
heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people
go. (Ex 9:7)

And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and
the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more,
and hardened his heart, he
and his servants. And the heart of Pharaoh
was hardened, neither would he let the children Israel go; as
the LORD had spoken. (Ex 9:34-35)

Wherefore then do ye
harden your hearts, as the
Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? when he had wrought
wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they
departed? (1Sam 6:6)











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RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-15 Thread Kevin Deegan
Read the rest of the post!
Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart?
See the ? that indicates a QUESTION
Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Are you a nut?Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

Have you noticed? Raymond is not able to answer any questions!
Q What color is your shirt?
A I like golf.

Q Which way to Canada?
A I Drive a chevy.Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart?
Raymond: Yes, I have read Exodus. Take a look at the following–
"And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments: and Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, neither did he hearken unto them; as the LORD had said. And Pharaoh turned and went into his house, neither did he set his heart to this also." (Ex 7:22-23)
"But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:15)
"Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:19)
"And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go." (Ex 8:32)
"And Pharaoh sent, and, behold, there was not one of the cattle of the Israelites dead. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go." (Ex 9:7)
"And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children Israel go; as the LORD had spoken." (Ex 9:34-35)
"Wherefore then do ye harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? when he had wrought wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they departed?" (1Sam 6:6)


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Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-15 Thread Kevin Deegan
I was an a witness. I DO NOT CONDONE ASSAULT. We were in a circle praying with eyes closed. There was a girl who requested prayer and was quite distraught. This guy was standing right there doing a sort of growling noise, for sometime. Making it hard to hear the prayer. He found the smallest guy there (he outwieghed him by 80 lbs) The victim could not even cry out, being assaulted from behind and in a choke hold. He dragged him down the sidewalk. Seems the guy was an LDS High Priest, some LDS took up a collection to help pay for his court costs. I believe he was charged with 2 felonies. Agravated assault can't remember the other charge. My pastor would not assault anyone, why do LDS High priests behave like Thugs?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



BLAINE: Questions for Kevin and Perry: I distinctly recall underwear being waved at General Conference in Salt Lake City, I recall a Mormon man reacting and attacking the wavers; were either of you involved in this?OR Did you condone it?



In a message dated 5/14/2005 6:17:13 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I agree with Lance and am glad you conduct yourselves as a Christian. How do you deal with the violent and angry sinners?

Love,

Caroline

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

Thanks Kevin.

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: May 14, 2005 15:42
Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

I do not chase people down the street, I just preach  do one on one discuss  teach, answer questions, and or pray with people. If they care not, that is between them  God I have discharged my responsibility. I try to conduct myself as a Christian. Try being lied about  slandered, put on TV for "calling people whores", having Christians repeat third hand stories they heard, Christians backpeddaling as fast as they can away from you, Dealing with the Authorities, Dealing with the angry sometimes violent sinners

I preach all kinds of events and surely do not preach "Hellfire  damnation" at the family events
I have never been arrested in over 20 years of preaching on a regular basis. I have led a good number of lost to the Lord. I just love telling people about my savior, can't shut my mouth, look what He did for me!ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:









What Kevin says is not offensive to me in the least. I think when he preaches against sin it is only “offensive” to sinners. The same word of God either hardens or softens hearts. When I hear someone preach against sin like Kevin does it causes me to want to examine my own life to be sure I’m not also in need of repentance for some sin. I doubt that Kevin curses at anyone, or molests anyone. Maybe he can verify that for us. If you hate the ACLU I can agree with that! If Skin Heads, Nazi’s, etc. are cursing at me that’s a whole different matter—they are of satan, and so is cursing and molesting. Izzy





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline WongSent: Friday, May 13, 2005 9:32 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism


Someone I don't know, trust, believe or even like shouting at me stuff that is offensive to my ears is disturbing my right to peace and quiet and my right to be unmolested and intimidated when I enter my place of worship.

What if it wasn't a Street Preacher on the video but Skin Heads, NeoNazisor Satanists cursing you while you're trying to get into a meeting? Is there any law in America that you could use to stop them or are they totally protected by the ACLU too?



Love,



Caroline


- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 4:25 PM

Subject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism



Caroline, do you believe that public preaching encroaches on your freedom? Izzy

Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

We took a leaf from your founding fathers: Your freedom ends when it encroaches mine. 

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RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-15 Thread Bothoms
I did and my reply was suited to it.Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Read the rest of the post!
Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart?
See the ? that indicates a QUESTION
Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Are you a nut?Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

Have you noticed? Raymond is not able to answer any questions!
Q What color is your shirt?
A I like golf.

Q Which way to Canada?
A I Drive a chevy.Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart?
Raymond: Yes, I have read Exodus. Take a look at the following–
"And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments: and Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, neither did he hearken unto them; as the LORD had said. And Pharaoh turned and went into his house, neither did he set his heart to this also." (Ex 7:22-23)
"But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:15)
"Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:19)
"And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go." (Ex 8:32)
"And Pharaoh sent, and, behold, there was not one of the cattle of the Israelites dead. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go." (Ex 9:7)
"And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children Israel go; as the LORD had spoken." (Ex 9:34-35)
"Wherefore then do ye harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? when he had wrought wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they departed?" (1Sam 6:6)


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Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-15 Thread Terry Clifton




Caroline Wong wrote:

  
  
  And what did Jesus mean when he
quoted Hosea, "But go ye
and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for
I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." 
  
  

Jesus was telling us what He preferred to see from us. He would rather
we be merciful to one another than offer sacrifices to God. If you
remember, by this time, God was sick of meaningless sacrifices,
offerings not from the heart, rituals. That is religeon. Mercy comes
from a loving heart.
Terry





Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-15 Thread Caroline Wong



Terry, I agree.

Love,

Caroline

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Terry Clifton 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 9:44 AM
  Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] 
  [TruthTalk] baptism
  Caroline Wong wrote: 
  

And what did Jesus mean when he quoted Hosea, 
"But go ye and learn what that 
meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the 
righteous, but sinners to repentance." 
Jesus 
  was telling us what He preferred to see from us. He would rather we be 
  merciful to one another than offer sacrifices to God. If you remember, 
  by this time, God was sick of meaningless sacrifices, offerings not from the 
  heart, rituals. That is religeon. Mercy comes from a loving 
  heart.Terry


Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-15 Thread Terry Clifton




I kinda figured you would.

Caroline Wong wrote:

  
  
  
  
  Terry, I agree.
  
  Love,
  
  Caroline
  
-
Original Message - 
From:
Terry Clifton 
To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent:
Sunday, May 15, 2005 9:44 AM
Subject:
Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism


Caroline Wong wrote:

  
  And what did Jesus mean when he
quoted Hosea, "But go ye
and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for
I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." 
  
  

Jesus was telling us what He preferred to see from us. He would rather
we be merciful to one another than offer sacrifices to God. If you
remember, by this time, God was sick of meaningless sacrifices,
offerings not from the heart, rituals. That is religeon. Mercy comes
from a loving heart.
Terry

  






RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-15 Thread Kevin Deegan
OK the question was do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart?
and?
Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I did and my reply was suited to it.Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

Read the rest of the post!
Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart?
See the ? that indicates a QUESTION
Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Are you a nut?Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

Have you noticed? Raymond is not able to answer any questions!
Q What color is your shirt?
A I like golf.

Q Which way to Canada?
A I Drive a chevy.Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart?
Raymond: Yes, I have read Exodus. Take a look at the following–
"And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments: and Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, neither did he hearken unto them; as the LORD had said. And Pharaoh turned and went into his house, neither did he set his heart to this also." (Ex 7:22-23)
"But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:15)
"Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:19)
"And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go." (Ex 8:32)
"And Pharaoh sent, and, behold, there was not one of the cattle of the Israelites dead. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go." (Ex 9:7)
"And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children Israel go; as the LORD had spoken." (Ex 9:34-35)
"Wherefore then do ye harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? when he had wrought wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they departed?" (1Sam 6:6)


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RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-15 Thread Bothoms
Look ! I answered the question. The question was Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart?
I answered that I have read Exodus -- in fact, I probably know the book better than you. As for the other part of the question, I quoted verses that say that Pharaoh hardened his own heart. Go back and read it . And not just selectively read it.
Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

OK the question was do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart?
and?
Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I did and my reply was suited to it.Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

Read the rest of the post!
Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart?
See the ? that indicates a QUESTION
Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Are you a nut?Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

Have you noticed? Raymond is not able to answer any questions!
Q What color is your shirt?
A I like golf.

Q Which way to Canada?
A I Drive a chevy.Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart?
Raymond: Yes, I have read Exodus. Take a look at the following–
"And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments: and Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, neither did he hearken unto them; as the LORD had said. And Pharaoh turned and went into his house, neither did he set his heart to this also." (Ex 7:22-23)
"But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:15)
"Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:19)
"And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go." (Ex 8:32)
"And Pharaoh sent, and, behold, there was not one of the cattle of the Israelites dead. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go." (Ex 9:7)
"And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children Israel go; as the LORD had spoken." (Ex 9:34-35)
"Wherefore then do ye harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? when he had wrought wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they departed?" (1Sam 6:6)


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RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-15 Thread Kevin Deegan
How canI say it so you get it?
DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THE BIBLE WHEN IT SAYS GOD HARDENED PHARAOHS HEART?
Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Look ! I answered the question. The question was Have you not read the book of Exodus, OR do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart?
I answered that I have read Exodus -- in fact, I probably know the book better than you. As for the other part of the question, I quoted verses that say that Pharaoh hardened his own heart. Go back and read it . And not just selectively read it.
Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

OK the question was do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart?
and?
Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I did and my reply was suited to it.Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

Read the rest of the post!
Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart?
See the ? that indicates a QUESTION
Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Are you a nut?Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

Have you noticed? Raymond is not able to answer any questions!
Q What color is your shirt?
A I like golf.

Q Which way to Canada?
A I Drive a chevy.Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart?
Raymond: Yes, I have read Exodus. Take a look at the following–
"And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments: and Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, neither did he hearken unto them; as the LORD had said. And Pharaoh turned and went into his house, neither did he set his heart to this also." (Ex 7:22-23)
"But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:15)
"Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:19)
"And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go." (Ex 8:32)
"And Pharaoh sent, and, behold, there was not one of the cattle of the Israelites dead. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go." (Ex 9:7)
"And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children Israel go; as the LORD had spoken." (Ex 9:34-35)
"Wherefore then do ye harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? when he had wrought wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they departed?" (1Sam 6:6)


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Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-14 Thread Judy Taylor



Jonathan does not follow God's Word Caroline, he is a 
follower of "Orthodoxy" which during the days of Christ's
earthly ministry would have been the Scribes  
Pharisees - or as Jesus put it, the blind leading the blind. Now 
back
then Jesus told his disciplesto "let them be" but 
Athanasuis and his cronies in the 4th Century believedthey had found a 
superior way to deal with those they labelled hereticks such asArius. So 
their peculiardoctrine and that ofChurch 
councils that followed became "Orthodoxy" - which BTW has nothing 
whateverto do with "new wineskins" Jesus 

baptises with the Holy Spirit and all error has at it's 
root the other spirit. jt

On Fri, 13 May 2005 22:49:17 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Jonathan does not disagree with God's word and he 
  is well versed in what God said in the bible. As JD found out, new wine is 
  poured into new wineskins. Very early in my TT days, my pastor said that I 
  can't change another person's beliefs without giving them something else to 
  believe in. I will add that unless God changed a person, madehim 
  intonew wineskin, new beliefswill causehim to burst. It is 
  self preservation to reject new wine until that transformation happens. 
  
  
  I'm referring to us all- by whatever label 
  that's been applied to us - saint, sinner, Christian, anti-whatever, liberal, 
  fundy. godly, godless
  
  By the way,this is the label that we 
  (everyone of us here) give ourselves: true Christ followers.
  
  Love,
  
  Caroline
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 8:44 
PM
    Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: 
[Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

Maybe if you read the bible, instead of fantasy books, you would have a 
understanding of what God's word has to say on the subject.

Why is it that every time one of you Liberals disagrees with God's word 
of course it is a incorrect reading?
Who made you chief editor of God's word?
Maybe it is God who has Hardened you Bible Correctors Hearts, as his 
judgement of your rebellious spirit.Lance Muir 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  
  

  

  Izzy, have you considered that your reading 
  of the Lord hardening Pharoah's heart may not be the correct 
  reading? Would you consider that some may define that _expression_ 
  differently than you? Consider that Raymond may be correctly 
  assessing the heart of God (one who softens instead of hardens) and then 
  approaching the passage in Exodus. The eyeglasses one wears always 
  colour our perceptions. Our view of God colours how we read 
  Scripture. If we view God asOne who hardens hearts we will 
  then look at this text as justifying what we already believe. If we 
  view God as being One who is love (in His very core of being) we will 
  delve in and wrestle with the text (note that the textalso says that 
  Pharoah hardened his own heart etc.) instead of approaching it with a 
  tentative surface meaning. We all become like the God we 
  adore. Those that adore a hard, vengeful, angry God tend to be hard, 
  vengeful and angry right here on TT.
  
  A new approach to people's posts on TT would 
  be beneficial. Before we rush to defend our own opinions with our 
  prooftexts perhaps wrestling with why a person holds a certain belief 
  would be in order. Would it have hurt to see that you may have 
  agreed with Raymond when he says that God softens hearts? Has God 
  ever softened yours? Could you have used that to continue (rather 
  than end) the dialogue? Rather than 10 vacuous posts a day how about 
  just one well-thought, well constructed, and well meaning 
  post?
  
  Jonathan
  Truthtalk Alumnis
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
ShieldsFamily 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: May 13, 2005 17:24
        Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: 
[Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism


Raymond, Have 
you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it 
says the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart? 
Izzy





From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of BothomsSent: Friday, May 13, 2005 2:28 
    PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] 
[TruthTalk] baptism



David: Why would such be bad? Have 
you not read how the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart? Don't you 
think Jesus himself hardened the hearts of the scholars (both Sadducees 
and Pharisees) of his day? Was that 
bad?



Raymond: I respectf

Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-14 Thread Caroline Wong



So this is where we respectfully disagree. I 
believe Jonathan is on the right path and that you are on the wrong path having 
followed the wrong leaders. But that's okay. God loves you and understands all 
that make you think and act the way you do. There will be judgment but as His 
daughter, you will be with Him in eternity.

Love,

Caroline

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 1:56 
AM
  Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] 
  [TruthTalk] baptism
  
  Jonathan does not follow God's Word Caroline, he is a 
  follower of "Orthodoxy" which during the days of Christ's
  earthly ministry would have been the Scribes  
  Pharisees - or as Jesus put it, the blind leading the blind. Now 
  back
  then Jesus told his disciplesto "let them be" 
  but Athanasuis and his cronies in the 4th Century believedthey had found 
  a superior way to deal with those they labelled hereticks such asArius. 
  So their peculiardoctrine and that 
  ofChurch councils that followed became "Orthodoxy" - which BTW has 
  nothing whateverto do with "new 
  wineskins" Jesus 
  baptises with the Holy Spirit and all error has at 
  it's root the other spirit. jt
  
  On Fri, 13 May 2005 22:49:17 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
Jonathan does not disagree with God's word and 
he is well versed in what God said in the bible. As JD found out, new wine 
is poured into new wineskins. Very early in my TT days, my pastor said that 
I can't change another person's beliefs without giving them something else 
to believe in. I will add that unless God changed a person, madehim 
intonew wineskin, new beliefswill causehim to burst. It is 
self preservation to reject new wine until that transformation happens. 


I'm referring to us all- by whatever 
label that's been applied to us - saint, sinner, Christian, anti-whatever, 
liberal, fundy. godly, godless

By the way,this is the label that we 
(everyone of us here) give ourselves: true Christ followers.

Love,

Caroline

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 8:44 
  PM
      Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: 
  [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
  
  Maybe if you read the bible, instead of fantasy books, you would have 
  a understanding of what God's word has to say on the subject.
  
  Why is it that every time one of you Liberals disagrees with God's 
  word of course it is a incorrect reading?
  Who made you chief editor of God's word?
  Maybe it is God who has Hardened you Bible Correctors Hearts, as his 
  judgement of your rebellious spirit.Lance Muir 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  







Izzy, have you considered that your reading 
of the Lord hardening Pharoah's heart may not be the correct 
reading? Would you consider that some may define that _expression_ 
differently than you? Consider that Raymond may be correctly 
assessing the heart of God (one who softens instead of hardens) and then 
approaching the passage in Exodus. The eyeglasses one wears always 
colour our perceptions. Our view of God colours how we read 
Scripture. If we view God asOne who hardens hearts we will 
then look at this text as justifying what we already believe. If 
we view God as being One who is love (in His very core of being) we will 
delve in and wrestle with the text (note that the textalso says 
that Pharoah hardened his own heart etc.) instead of approaching it with 
a tentative surface meaning. We all become like the God we 
adore. Those that adore a hard, vengeful, angry God tend to be 
hard, vengeful and angry right here on TT.

A new approach to people's posts on TT 
would be beneficial. Before we rush to defend our own opinions 
with our prooftexts perhaps wrestling with why a person holds a certain 
belief would be in order. Would it have hurt to see that you may 
have agreed with Raymond when he says that God softens hearts? Has 
God ever softened yours? Could you have used that to continue 
(rather than end) the dialogue? Rather than 10 vacuous posts a day 
how about just one well-thought, well constructed, and well meaning 
post?

Jonathan
Truthtalk Alumnis

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 13, 2005 17:24
      Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: 
  [Bulk] [TruthTalk] bap

Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-14 Thread Kevin Deegan


CW says Jonathan does not disagree with God's word 
What post did you read??? 
I did not see any Bible in the post, just his correction of the Bible. On what AUTHORITY do you Bible correctors operate?
God has a controversy with you; DETAILS in the HOLY BIBLE Hos 4:1 
EX 4 I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go. 
Ex 7:3,13-14; 7:22; 9:12;10:11,20,27;11:10;14:4,8,17; Jos 11:20; Is 63:7 
You are confusing a hard heart with God leading into sin which He would never do. Acts 4:19 Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Jonathan does not disagree with God's word and he is well versed in what God said in the bible. As JD found out, new wine is poured into new wineskins. Very early in my TT days, my pastor said that I can't change another person's beliefs without giving them something else to believe in. I will add that unless God changed a person, madehim intonew wineskin, new beliefswill causehim to burst. It is self preservation to reject new wine until that transformation happens. 

I'm referring to us all- by whatever label that's been applied to us - saint, sinner, Christian, anti-whatever, liberal, fundy. godly, godless

By the way,this is the label that we (everyone of us here) give ourselves: true Christ followers.

Love,

Caroline

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

Maybe if you read the bible, instead of fantasy books, you would have a understanding of what God's word has to say on the subject.

Why is it that every time one of you Liberals disagrees with God's word of course it is a incorrect reading?
Who made you chief editor of God's word?
Maybe it is God who has Hardened you Bible Correctors Hearts, as his judgement of your rebellious spirit.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:








Izzy, have you considered that your reading of the Lord hardening Pharoah's heart may not be the correct reading? Would you consider that some may define that _expression_ differently than you? Consider that Raymond may be correctly assessing the heart of God (one who softens instead of hardens) and then approaching the passage in Exodus. The eyeglasses one wears always colour our perceptions. Our view of God colours how we read Scripture. If we view God asOne who hardens hearts we will then look at this text as justifying what we already believe. If we view God as being One who is love (in His very core of being) we will delve in and wrestle with the text (note that the textalso says that Pharoah hardened his own heart etc.) instead of approaching it with a tentative surface meaning. We all become like the God we adore. Those that adore a hard, vengeful, angry God tend to be hard, vengeful and
 angry right here on TT.

A new approach to people's posts on TT would be beneficial. Before we rush to defend our own opinions with our prooftexts perhaps wrestling with why a person holds a certain belief would be in order. Would it have hurt to see that you may have agreed with Raymond when he says that God softens hearts? Has God ever softened yours? Could you have used that to continue (rather than end) the dialogue? Rather than 10 vacuous posts a day how about just one well-thought, well constructed, and well meaning post?

Jonathan
Truthtalk Alumnis

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: May 13, 2005 17:24
Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism


Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart? Izzy





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of BothomsSent: Friday, May 13, 2005 2:28 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism



David: Why would such be bad? Have you not read how the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart? Don't you think Jesus himself hardened the hearts of the scholars (both Sadducees and Pharisees) of his day? Was that bad?



Raymond: I respectfully disagree. The Lord does not hardened hearts; He softens them.


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Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-14 Thread Judy Taylor



Well Caroline, everyone to their own opinion. I 
would take a lot of comfort in your thoughts if you were the
judge, but there is a different standard which 
isnot near as lax. Yes God understood and loved us enough 
to
send His ONLY begotten Son to pay for our 
transgressions so that we would not have to continue to wallow in
them.So let the redeemed of the Lord say so 
...My gospel is the "highway of holiness" (Isa 35:8-10)... 
Orthodoxy is the"other way"

Are you aware that history is continually revised? They 
are fixing to make poor old John Paul who because of
his Parkinsonism could barely stagger around and could 
not conduct a homily before he died into some kind of a
miracle working superman/saint. Future generations will 
not recognize him as the same man we saw on TV.

Along the same lines Priscilla Presley is revising her 
history with Elvis and this is now in the process of being 
transformed from the sordid 
tale of a very beautiful 14yr old teen who Elvis met whilein Germany 
and was given permission by her starstruck and misguided parents to live at Graceland 
with the much older Elvis (attending
school in TN, while ATST beingsubject 
to his perverted whims) - until they were married 
5-6yrs later - into
a sweet andinnocent little love story for one of 
the Networks - Truth has perished in the streets. jt


On Sat, 14 May 2005 08:20:49 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  So this is where we respectfully disagree. I 
  believe Jonathan is on the right path and that you are on the wrong path 
  having followed the wrong leaders. But that's okay. God loves you and 
  understands all that make you think and act the way you do. There will be 
  judgment but as His daughter, you will be with Him in eternity.
  Love,
  Caroline
  
From: Judy Taylor 

Jonathan does not follow God's Word Caroline, he is 
a follower of "Orthodoxy" which during the days of Christ's
earthly ministry would have been the Scribes  
Pharisees - or as Jesus put it, the blind leading the blind. Now 
back
then Jesus told his disciplesto "let them be" 
but Athanasuis and his cronies in the 4th Century believedthey had 
found a superior way to deal with those they labelled hereticks such 
asArius. So their peculiardoctrine 
and that ofChurch councils that followed became "Orthodoxy" - which 
BTW has nothing whateverto do with "new 
wineskins" Jesus 
baptises with the Holy Spirit and all error has at 
it's root the other spirit. jt

On Fri, 13 May 2005 22:49:17 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Jonathan does not disagree with God's word 
  and he is well versed in what God said in the bible. As JD found out, new 
  wine is poured into new wineskins. Very early in my TT days, my pastor 
  said that I can't change another person's beliefs without giving them 
  something else to believe in. I will add that unless God changed a person, 
  madehim intonew wineskin, new beliefswill causehim 
  to burst. It is self preservation to reject new wine until that 
  transformation happens. 
  
  I'm referring to us all- by whatever 
  label that's been applied to us - saint, sinner, Christian, anti-whatever, 
  liberal, fundy. godly, godless
  
  By the way,this is the label that we 
  (everyone of us here) give ourselves: true Christ followers.
  
  Love,
  
  Caroline
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

    Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 8:44 
    PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: 
[Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

Maybe if you read the bible, instead of fantasy books, you would 
have a understanding of what God's word has to say on the subject.

Why is it that every time one of you Liberals disagrees with God's 
word of course it is a incorrect reading?
Who made you chief editor of God's word?
Maybe it is God who has Hardened you Bible Correctors Hearts, as 
his judgement of your rebellious spirit.Lance Muir 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  
  

  

  Izzy, have you considered that your 
  reading of the Lord hardening Pharoah's heart may not be the correct 
  reading? Would you consider that some may define that _expression_ 
  differently than you? Consider that Raymond may be correctly 
  assessing the heart of God (one who softens instead of hardens) and 
  then approaching the passage in Exodus. The eyeglasses one wears 
  always colour our perceptions. Our view of God colours how we 
  read Scripture. If we view God asOne who hardens hearts we 
  wil

Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-14 Thread Lance Muir



Tsk, tsk Judy! What have you been 
watching?

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 14, 2005 08:52
  Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: 
  [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
  
  Well Caroline, everyone to their own opinion. I 
  would take a lot of comfort in your thoughts if you were the
  judge, but there is a different standard which 
  isnot near as lax. Yes God understood and loved us enough 
  to
  send His ONLY begotten Son to pay for our 
  transgressions so that we would not have to continue to wallow in
  them.So let the redeemed of the Lord say so 
  ...My gospel is the "highway of holiness" (Isa 35:8-10)... 
  Orthodoxy is the"other way"
  
  Are you aware that history is continually revised? 
  They are fixing to make poor old John Paul who because of
  his Parkinsonism could barely stagger around and 
  could not conduct a homily before he died into some kind of a
  miracle working superman/saint. Future generations 
  will not recognize him as the same man we saw on TV.
  
  Along the same lines Priscilla Presley is revising 
  her history with Elvis and this is now in the process of being 
  transformed from the sordid tale of a very beautiful 14yr old teen who Elvis 
  met whilein Germany and was given permission by her starstruck and 
  misguided parents to live at Graceland with the much older Elvis (attending
  school in TN, while ATST beingsubject 
  to his perverted whims) - until they were married 
  5-6yrs later - into
  a sweet andinnocent little love story for one 
  of the Networks - Truth has perished in the streets. jt
  
  
  On Sat, 14 May 2005 08:20:49 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
So this is where we respectfully disagree. I 
believe Jonathan is on the right path and that you are on the wrong path 
having followed the wrong leaders. But that's okay. God loves you and 
understands all that make you think and act the way you do. There will be 
judgment but as His daughter, you will be with Him in eternity.
Love,
Caroline

  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  Jonathan does not follow God's Word Caroline, he 
  is a follower of "Orthodoxy" which during the days of 
Christ's
  earthly ministry would have been the Scribes 
   Pharisees - or as Jesus put it, the blind leading the blind. 
  Now back
  then Jesus told his disciplesto "let them 
  be" but Athanasuis and his cronies in the 4th Century believedthey 
  had found a superior way to deal with those they labelled hereticks such 
  asArius. So their peculiardoctrine 
  and that ofChurch councils that followed became "Orthodoxy" - which 
  BTW has nothing whateverto do with "new 
  wineskins" Jesus 
  baptises with the Holy Spirit and all error has 
  at it's root the other spirit. jt
  
  On Fri, 13 May 2005 22:49:17 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Jonathan does not disagree with God's word 
and he is well versed in what God said in the bible. As JD found out, 
new wine is poured into new wineskins. Very early in my TT days, my 
pastor said that I can't change another person's beliefs without giving 
them something else to believe in. I will add that unless God changed a 
person, madehim intonew wineskin, new beliefswill 
causehim to burst. It is self preservation to reject new wine 
until that transformation happens. 

I'm referring to us all- by whatever 
label that's been applied to us - saint, sinner, Christian, 
anti-whatever, liberal, fundy. godly, godless

By the way,this is the label that we 
(everyone of us here) give ourselves: true Christ 
followers.

Love,

Caroline

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 8:44 
      PM
  Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] 
  Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
  
  Maybe if you read the bible, instead of fantasy books, you would 
  have a understanding of what God's word has to say on the 
  subject.
  
  Why is it that every time one of you Liberals disagrees with 
  God's word of course it is a incorrect reading?
  Who made you chief editor of God's word?
  Maybe it is God who has Hardened you Bible Correctors Hearts, as 
  his judgement of your rebellious spirit.Lance Muir 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  







Izzy, have you considered that your 
reading of the Lord 

RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-14 Thread Bothoms

Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart?
Raymond: Yes, I have read Exodus. Take a look at the following–
"And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments: and Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, neither did he hearken unto them; as the LORD had said. And Pharaoh turned and went into his house, neither did he set his heart to this also." (Ex 7:22-23)
"But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:15)
"Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:19)
"And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go." (Ex 8:32)
"And Pharaoh sent, and, behold, there was not one of the cattle of the Israelites dead. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go." (Ex 9:7)
"And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children Israel go; as the LORD had spoken." (Ex 9:34-35)
"Wherefore then do ye harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? when he had wrought wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they departed?" (1Sam 6:6)

Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-14 Thread Lance Muir
It's a different culture, David. You do understand that Britain, Europe,
Eurasia, the near/far east, Russia etc. are significantly different
cultures, do you not? What may pass as OK in the good old 'shoot 'em up' US
of A would not pass of OK in Japan, do you not? Canada ain't America, thank
God!


- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: May 14, 2005 12:19
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism


 Caroline wrote:
  Someone I don't know, trust, believe or even like shouting at me
  stuff that is offensive to my ears is disturbing my right to peace
  and quiet and my right to be unmolested  and intimidated when
  I enter my place of worship.

 Hmmm.  Is there a problem with tolerance here?  You don't have a right to
 quietness when you are outside your place of worship (place of
worship? -- 
 another topic that needs addressing at another time).  When you are inside
 your place of worship then you have a right to quietness.  Those who
want
 quietness in public places do not really believe in free speech.

 Caroline wrote:
  What if it wasn't a Street Preacher on the video but Skin Heads,
  NeoNazis or Satanists cursing you while you're trying to get
  into a meeting?

 Cursing is another issue entirely, but if they were out in front of my
 place of worship rebuking those attending church, that would be just
fine.
 That is what freedom of speech is all about.  More than that, I would very
 much welcome it because it would cause those entering to examine
themselves
 whether they be in the faith.  What is dangerous is when you have nobody
in
 society rebuking the sinners within it.  Some of the church hypocrites
need
 some rebuking, even if it were to come from Satanists.  If you know any
who
 want to rebuke Christians, please send them over to my church meeting
place.

 Caroline wrote:
  Is there any law in America that you could use to stop
  them or are they totally protected by the ACLU too?

 Our Constitution protects the right of speech in public places.  Does
Canada
 have any laws that protect free speech?  Are most Canadians against free
 speech?

 Peace be with you.
 David Miller.


 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
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--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-14 Thread Caroline Wong



I agree with Lance and am glad you conduct 
yourselves as a Christian. How do you deal with the violent and angry 
sinners?

Love,

Caroline

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Lance 
  Muir 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 3:12 
PM
  Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] 
  [TruthTalk] baptism
  
  Thanks Kevin.
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: May 14, 2005 15:42
Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] 
baptism

I do not chase people down the street, I just preach  do one on 
one discuss  teach, answer questions, and or pray with people. If they 
care not, that is between them  God I have discharged my 
responsibility. I try to conduct myself as a Christian. Try being lied about 
 slandered, put on TV for "calling people whores", having Christians 
repeat third hand stories they heard, Christians backpeddaling as fast as 
they can away from you, Dealing with the Authorities, Dealing with the angry 
sometimes violent sinners

I preach all kinds of events and surely do not preach "Hellfire  
damnation" at the family events
I have never been arrested in over 20 years of preaching on a regular 
basis. I have led a good number of lost to the Lord. I just love telling 
people about my savior, can't shut my mouth, look what He did for 
me!ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

  
  
  
  

  

  
  What Kevin says 
  is not offensive to me in the least. I think when he preaches 
  against sin it is only “offensive” to sinners. The same word of God 
  either hardens or softens hearts. When I hear someone preach against 
  sin like Kevin does it causes me to want to examine my own life to be sure 
  I’m not also in need of repentance for some sin. I doubt that Kevin 
  curses at anyone, or molests anyone. Maybe he can verify that for 
  us. If you hate the ACLU I can agree with that! If Skin Heads, 
  Nazi’s, etc. are cursing at me that’s a whole different matter—they are of 
  satan, and so is cursing and molesting. 
  Izzy
  
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline 
  WongSent: Friday, May 
  13, 2005 9:32 PMTo: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] 
  baptism
  
  
  Someone I don't know, trust, 
  believe or even like shouting at me stuff that is offensive to my ears is 
  disturbing my right to peace and quiet and my right to be unmolested 
  and intimidated when I enter my place of 
  worship.
  
  What if it wasn't a Street 
  Preacher on the video but Skin Heads, NeoNazisor Satanists cursing 
  you while you're trying to get into a meeting? Is there any law in 
  America that you could use to 
  stop them or are they totally protected by the ACLU 
  too?
  
  
  
  Love,
  
  
  
  Caroline
  

- Original Message - 


From: ShieldsFamily 


To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 


Sent: 
Friday, May 13, 2005 4:25 PM

Subject: RE: 
[Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism



Caroline, 
do you believe that public preaching encroaches on your freedom? 
Izzy

Caroline 
Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote: 

We took a leaf from your founding fathers: Your 
freedom ends when it encroaches mine. 



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it out!


Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-14 Thread Blainerb473




BLAINE: Questions for Kevin and Perry: I distinctly recall 
underwear being waved at General Conference in Salt Lake City, I recall a Mormon 
man reacting and attacking the wavers; were either of you involved in 
this?OR Did you condone it?



In a message dated 5/14/2005 6:17:13 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  I agree with Lance and am glad you conduct 
  yourselves as a Christian. How do you deal with the violent and angry 
  sinners?
  
  Love,
  
  Caroline
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Lance Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 3:12 
PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] 
[TruthTalk] baptism

Thanks Kevin.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 14, 2005 15:42
  Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] 
  [TruthTalk] baptism
  
  I do not chase people down the street, I just preach  do one on 
  one discuss  teach, answer questions, and or pray with people. If 
  they care not, that is between them  God I have discharged my 
  responsibility. I try to conduct myself as a Christian. Try being lied 
  about  slandered, put on TV for "calling people whores", having 
  Christians repeat third hand stories they heard, Christians backpeddaling 
  as fast as they can away from you, Dealing with the Authorities, Dealing 
  with the angry sometimes violent sinners
  
  I preach all kinds of events and surely do not preach "Hellfire  
  damnation" at the family events
  I have never been arrested in over 20 years of preaching on a regular 
  basis. I have led a good number of lost to the Lord. I just love telling 
  people about my savior, can't shut my mouth, look what He did for 
  me!ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  








What Kevin says 
is not offensive to me in the least. I think when he preaches 
against sin it is only offensive to sinners. The same word of 
God either hardens or softens hearts. When I hear someone preach 
against sin like Kevin does it causes me to want to examine my own life 
to be sure Im not also in need of repentance for some sin. I 
doubt that Kevin curses at anyone, or molests anyone. Maybe he can 
verify that for us. If you hate the ACLU I can agree with that! If 
Skin Heads, Nazis, etc. are cursing at me thats a whole different 
matterthey are of satan, and so is cursing and molesting. 
Izzy





From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline 
WongSent: Friday, May 
13, 2005 9:32 PMTo: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] 
baptism


Someone I don't know, trust, 
believe or even like shouting at me stuff that is offensive to my ears 
is disturbing my right to peace and quiet and my right to be 
unmolested and intimidated when I enter my place of 
worship.

What if it wasn't a Street 
Preacher on the video but Skin Heads, NeoNazisor Satanists cursing 
you while you're trying to get into a meeting? Is there any law in 
America that you could use to 
stop them or are they totally protected by the ACLU 
too?



Love,



Caroline

  
  - Original Message 
  - 
  
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  
  
  To: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  
  Sent: 
  Friday, May 13, 2005 4:25 PM
  
  Subject: 
  RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
  
  
  
  Caroline, 
  do you believe that public preaching encroaches on your freedom? 
  Izzy
  
  Caroline 
  Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote: 
  
  We took a leaf from your founding fathers: 
  Your freedom ends when it encroaches mine. 
  




Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-14 Thread Kevin Deegan
Truth has perished in the streets. jt
And that ain't the only place! 
Hos 4:1 Hear the word of the LORD, ye children of Israel: for the LORD hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land.
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Well Caroline, everyone to their own opinion. I would take a lot of comfort in your thoughts if you were the
judge, but there is a different standard which isnot near as lax. Yes God understood and loved us enough to
send His ONLY begotten Son to pay for our transgressions so that we would not have to continue to wallow in
them.So let the redeemed of the Lord say so ...My gospel is the "highway of holiness" (Isa 35:8-10)... 
Orthodoxy is the"other way"

Are you aware that history is continually revised? They are fixing to make poor old John Paul who because of
his Parkinsonism could barely stagger around and could not conduct a homily before he died into some kind of a
miracle working superman/saint. Future generations will not recognize him as the same man we saw on TV.

Along the same lines Priscilla Presley is revising her history with Elvis and this is now in the process of being 
transformed from the sordid tale of a very beautiful 14yr old teen who Elvis met whilein Germany and was given permission by her starstruck and misguided parents to live at Graceland with the much older Elvis (attending
school in TN, while ATST beingsubject to his perverted whims) - until they were married 5-6yrs later - into
a sweet andinnocent little love story for one of the Networks - Truth has perished in the streets. jt


On Sat, 14 May 2005 08:20:49 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

So this is where we respectfully disagree. I believe Jonathan is on the right path and that you are on the wrong path having followed the wrong leaders. But that's okay. God loves you and understands all that make you think and act the way you do. There will be judgment but as His daughter, you will be with Him in eternity.
Love,
Caroline

From: Judy Taylor 

Jonathan does not follow God's Word Caroline, he is a follower of "Orthodoxy" which during the days of Christ's
earthly ministry would have been the Scribes  Pharisees - or as Jesus put it, the blind leading the blind. Now back
then Jesus told his disciplesto "let them be" but Athanasuis and his cronies in the 4th Century believedthey had found a superior way to deal with those they labelled hereticks such asArius. So their peculiardoctrine and that ofChurch councils that followed became "Orthodoxy" - which BTW has nothing whateverto do with "new wineskins" Jesus 
baptises with the Holy Spirit and all error has at it's root the other spirit. jt

On Fri, 13 May 2005 22:49:17 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Jonathan does not disagree with God's word and he is well versed in what God said in the bible. As JD found out, new wine is poured into new wineskins. Very early in my TT days, my pastor said that I can't change another person's beliefs without giving them something else to believe in. I will add that unless God changed a person, madehim intonew wineskin, new beliefswill causehim to burst. It is self preservation to reject new wine until that transformation happens. 

I'm referring to us all- by whatever label that's been applied to us - saint, sinner, Christian, anti-whatever, liberal, fundy. godly, godless

By the way,this is the label that we (everyone of us here) give ourselves: true Christ followers.

Love,

Caroline

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

Maybe if you read the bible, instead of fantasy books, you would have a understanding of what God's word has to say on the subject.

Why is it that every time one of you Liberals disagrees with God's word of course it is a incorrect reading?
Who made you chief editor of God's word?
Maybe it is God who has Hardened you Bible Correctors Hearts, as his judgement of your rebellious spirit.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:








Izzy, have you considered that your reading of the Lord hardening Pharoah's heart may not be the correct reading? Would you consider that some may define that _expression_ differently than you? Consider that Raymond may be correctly assessing the heart of God (one who softens instead of hardens) and then approaching the passage in Exodus. The eyeglasses one wears always colour our perceptions. Our view of God colours how we read Scripture. If we view God asOne who hardens hearts we will then look at this text as justifying what we already believe. If we view God as being One who is love (in His very core of being) we will delve in and wrestle with the text (note that the textalso says that Pharoah hardened his own heart etc.) instead of approaching

Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-14 Thread Kevin Deegan
Is she patting you on the head? Talk about condescension!Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


So this is where we respectfully disagree. I believe Jonathan is on the right path and that you are on the wrong path having followed the wrong leaders. But that's okay. God loves you and understands all that make you think and act the way you do. There will be judgment but as His daughter, you will be with Him in eternity.

Love,

Caroline

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 1:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

Jonathan does not follow God's Word Caroline, he is a follower of "Orthodoxy" which during the days of Christ's
earthly ministry would have been the Scribes  Pharisees - or as Jesus put it, the blind leading the blind. Now back
then Jesus told his disciplesto "let them be" but Athanasuis and his cronies in the 4th Century believedthey had found a superior way to deal with those they labelled hereticks such asArius. So their peculiardoctrine and that ofChurch councils that followed became "Orthodoxy" - which BTW has nothing whateverto do with "new wineskins" Jesus 
baptises with the Holy Spirit and all error has at it's root the other spirit. jt

On Fri, 13 May 2005 22:49:17 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Jonathan does not disagree with God's word and he is well versed in what God said in the bible. As JD found out, new wine is poured into new wineskins. Very early in my TT days, my pastor said that I can't change another person's beliefs without giving them something else to believe in. I will add that unless God changed a person, madehim intonew wineskin, new beliefswill causehim to burst. It is self preservation to reject new wine until that transformation happens. 

I'm referring to us all- by whatever label that's been applied to us - saint, sinner, Christian, anti-whatever, liberal, fundy. godly, godless

By the way,this is the label that we (everyone of us here) give ourselves: true Christ followers.

Love,

Caroline

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

Maybe if you read the bible, instead of fantasy books, you would have a understanding of what God's word has to say on the subject.

Why is it that every time one of you Liberals disagrees with God's word of course it is a incorrect reading?
Who made you chief editor of God's word?
Maybe it is God who has Hardened you Bible Correctors Hearts, as his judgement of your rebellious spirit.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:








Izzy, have you considered that your reading of the Lord hardening Pharoah's heart may not be the correct reading? Would you consider that some may define that _expression_ differently than you? Consider that Raymond may be correctly assessing the heart of God (one who softens instead of hardens) and then approaching the passage in Exodus. The eyeglasses one wears always colour our perceptions. Our view of God colours how we read Scripture. If we view God asOne who hardens hearts we will then look at this text as justifying what we already believe. If we view God as being One who is love (in His very core of being) we will delve in and wrestle with the text (note that the textalso says that Pharoah hardened his own heart etc.) instead of approaching it with a tentative surface meaning. We all become like the God we adore. Those that adore a hard, vengeful, angry God tend to be hard, vengeful and
 angry right here on TT.

A new approach to people's posts on TT would be beneficial. Before we rush to defend our own opinions with our prooftexts perhaps wrestling with why a person holds a certain belief would be in order. Would it have hurt to see that you may have agreed with Raymond when he says that God softens hearts? Has God ever softened yours? Could you have used that to continue (rather than end) the dialogue? Rather than 10 vacuous posts a day how about just one well-thought, well constructed, and well meaning post?

Jonathan
Truthtalk Alumnis

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: May 13, 2005 17:24
Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism


Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart? Izzy





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of BothomsSent: Friday, May 13, 2005 2:28 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism



David: Why would such be bad? Have you not read how the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart? Don't you think Jesus himself hardened the hearts of the scholars (both Sadducees and Pharisees) of his day? Was that bad?



Raymond: I respectfully disag

Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-14 Thread Charles Perry Locke
Blaine,
  Yes. I was the mormon man that attcked the street preacher. That little 
guy put up a heck of a fight, but he finally converted me.

Perry
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 23:18:47 EDT
BLAINE:  Questions for Kevin and Perry:  I distinctly recall  underwear 
being
waved at General Conference in Salt Lake City, I recall a Mormon  man
reacting and attacking the wavers;  were either of you involved in  this?  
OR  Did
you condone it?


In a message dated 5/14/2005 6:17:13 PM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I agree with Lance and am glad you conduct  yourselves as a Christian. How 
do
you deal with the violent and angry  sinners?

Love,
Caroline
- Original Message -
From:  _Lance Muir_ (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org)
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 3:12  PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk]  [TruthTalk] baptism
Thanks Kevin.
- Original Message -
From:  _Kevin Deegan_ (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org)
Sent: May 14, 2005 15:42
Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk]  [TruthTalk] baptism
I do not chase people down the street, I just preach  do one on  one 
discuss
 teach, answer questions, and or pray with people. If  they care not, that
is between them  God I have discharged my  responsibility. I try to 
conduct
myself as a Christian. Try being lied  about  slandered, put on TV for 
calling
people whores, having  Christians repeat third hand stories they heard,
Christians backpeddaling  as fast as they can away from you, Dealing with 
the
Authorities, Dealing  with the angry sometimes violent sinners

I preach all kinds of events and surely do not preach Hellfire   
damnation
at the family events
I have never been arrested in over 20 years of preaching on a regular  
basis.
I have led a good number of lost to the Lord. I just love telling  people
about my savior, can't shut my mouth, look what He did for  me!

ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:
What Kevin says  is not offensive to me in the least.  I think when he
preaches  against sin it is only “offensive” to sinners.  The same word 
of  God
either hardens or softens hearts.  When I hear someone preach  against sin 
like
Kevin does it causes me to want to examine my own life  to be sure I’m 
not also
in need of repentance for some sin.  I  doubt that Kevin curses at anyone, 
or
molests anyone.  Maybe he can  verify that for us.  If you hate the ACLU I
can agree with that! If  Skin Heads, Nazi’s, etc. are cursing at me 
that’s a
whole different  matter—they are of satan, and so is cursing and 
molesting.
Izzy


From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline  Wong
Sent: Friday, May  13, 2005 9:32 PM
To:  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk]  baptism
Someone I don't know, trust,  believe or even like shouting at me stuff 
that
is offensive to my ears  is disturbing my right to peace and quiet and my
right to be  unmolested  and intimidated when I enter my place of  worship.

What if it wasn't a Street  Preacher on the video but Skin Heads, NeoNazis 
or
Satanists cursing  you while you're trying to get into a meeting? Is there
any law in  America that you could use to  stop them or are they totally
protected by the ACLU  too?


Love,

Caroline
- Original Message  -
From:  _ShieldsFamily_ (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
To:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org)
Sent:  Friday, May 13, 2005 4:25 PM
Subject:  RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

Caroline,  do you believe that public preaching encroaches on your freedom?
Izzy
Caroline  Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
wrote:
We took a leaf from your founding fathers:  Your freedom ends when it
encroaches mine.






--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.


Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-14 Thread Charles Perry Locke
Blaine,
  I was joking, of course, in that last post. You seem to have somehow 
identified me as a street preacher, although I have never preached on a 
street in my life. I happen to believe in what they are doing, that is, 
street evangelism, and admire them for their courage in spreading the word 
of God.

Perry
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 23:18:47 EDT
BLAINE:  Questions for Kevin and Perry:  I distinctly recall  underwear 
being
waved at General Conference in Salt Lake City, I recall a Mormon  man
reacting and attacking the wavers;  were either of you involved in  this?  
OR  Did
you condone it?


In a message dated 5/14/2005 6:17:13 PM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I agree with Lance and am glad you conduct  yourselves as a Christian. How 
do
you deal with the violent and angry  sinners?

Love,
Caroline
- Original Message -
From:  _Lance Muir_ (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org)
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 3:12  PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk]  [TruthTalk] baptism
Thanks Kevin.
- Original Message -
From:  _Kevin Deegan_ (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org)
Sent: May 14, 2005 15:42
Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk]  [TruthTalk] baptism
I do not chase people down the street, I just preach  do one on  one 
discuss
 teach, answer questions, and or pray with people. If  they care not, that
is between them  God I have discharged my  responsibility. I try to 
conduct
myself as a Christian. Try being lied  about  slandered, put on TV for 
calling
people whores, having  Christians repeat third hand stories they heard,
Christians backpeddaling  as fast as they can away from you, Dealing with 
the
Authorities, Dealing  with the angry sometimes violent sinners

I preach all kinds of events and surely do not preach Hellfire   
damnation
at the family events
I have never been arrested in over 20 years of preaching on a regular  
basis.
I have led a good number of lost to the Lord. I just love telling  people
about my savior, can't shut my mouth, look what He did for  me!

ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:
What Kevin says  is not offensive to me in the least.  I think when he
preaches  against sin it is only “offensive” to sinners.  The same word 
of  God
either hardens or softens hearts.  When I hear someone preach  against sin 
like
Kevin does it causes me to want to examine my own life  to be sure I’m 
not also
in need of repentance for some sin.  I  doubt that Kevin curses at anyone, 
or
molests anyone.  Maybe he can  verify that for us.  If you hate the ACLU I
can agree with that! If  Skin Heads, Nazi’s, etc. are cursing at me 
that’s a
whole different  matter—they are of satan, and so is cursing and 
molesting.
Izzy


From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline  Wong
Sent: Friday, May  13, 2005 9:32 PM
To:  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk]  baptism
Someone I don't know, trust,  believe or even like shouting at me stuff 
that
is offensive to my ears  is disturbing my right to peace and quiet and my
right to be  unmolested  and intimidated when I enter my place of  worship.

What if it wasn't a Street  Preacher on the video but Skin Heads, NeoNazis 
or
Satanists cursing  you while you're trying to get into a meeting? Is there
any law in  America that you could use to  stop them or are they totally
protected by the ACLU  too?


Love,

Caroline
- Original Message  -
From:  _ShieldsFamily_ (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
To:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org)
Sent:  Friday, May 13, 2005 4:25 PM
Subject:  RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

Caroline,  do you believe that public preaching encroaches on your freedom?
Izzy
Caroline  Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
wrote:
We took a leaf from your founding fathers:  Your freedom ends when it
encroaches mine.






--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.


RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-14 Thread Kevin Deegan
Have you noticed? Raymond is not able to answer any questions!
Q What color is your shirt?
A I like golf.

Q Which way to Canada?
A I Drive a chevy.Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart?
Raymond: Yes, I have read Exodus. Take a look at the following–
"And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments: and Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, neither did he hearken unto them; as the LORD had said. And Pharaoh turned and went into his house, neither did he set his heart to this also." (Ex 7:22-23)
"But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:15)
"Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:19)
"And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go." (Ex 8:32)
"And Pharaoh sent, and, behold, there was not one of the cattle of the Israelites dead. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go." (Ex 9:7)
"And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children Israel go; as the LORD had spoken." (Ex 9:34-35)
"Wherefore then do ye harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? when he had wrought wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they departed?" (1Sam 6:6)
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Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news & more. Check it out!

RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-14 Thread Bothoms
Are you a nut?Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Have you noticed? Raymond is not able to answer any questions!
Q What color is your shirt?
A I like golf.

Q Which way to Canada?
A I Drive a chevy.Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart?
Raymond: Yes, I have read Exodus. Take a look at the following–
"And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments: and Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, neither did he hearken unto them; as the LORD had said. And Pharaoh turned and went into his house, neither did he set his heart to this also." (Ex 7:22-23)
"But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:15)
"Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:19)
"And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go." (Ex 8:32)
"And Pharaoh sent, and, behold, there was not one of the cattle of the Israelites dead. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go." (Ex 9:7)
"And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children Israel go; as the LORD had spoken." (Ex 9:34-35)
"Wherefore then do ye harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? when he had wrought wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they departed?" (1Sam 6:6)


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RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-14 Thread ShieldsFamily








Raymond, do you accept the verses below,
but reject the verses that say that God hardened Pharaohs heart? Do you
think only one can be true, and not both? I accept the truth of ALL of the
verses in the Bible. Do you? They are not mutually exclusive. Izzy



Ex 9:12 And the LORD hardened
Pharaoh's heart, and he did not listen to them, just as the LORD had spoken to
Moses.



Ex 10:1 Then the LORD said to Moses,
Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the heart
of his servants, that I may perform these signs of Mine among them.



Ex 10:20 But the LORD hardened
Pharaoh's heart, and he did not let the sons of Israel go.



Ex 10:20 But the LORD hardened
Pharaoh's heart, and he was not willing to let them go.



Ex 11:10 Moses and Aaron performed
all these wonders before Pharaoh; yet the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart,
and he did not let the sons of Israel
go out of his land.



Ex 14:8 The LORD hardened the heart
of Pharaoh, king of Egypt,
and he chased after the sons of Israel
as the sons of Israel
were going out boldly.



Jn 12:39 40HE
HAS BLINDED THEIR EYES AND HE HARDENED THEIR HEART, SO THAT THEY WOULD NOT SEE
WITH THEIR EYES AND PERCEIVE WITH THEIR HEART, AND BE CONVERTED AND I HEAL
THEM.















From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bothoms
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 9:20
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk]
[TruthTalk] baptism







Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of
Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened
Pharaohs heart?

Raymond: Yes, I have read Exodus. Take a look
at the following

And the magicians of Egypt did so with their
enchantments: and Pharaohs heart was
hardened, neither did he hearken unto
them; as the LORD had said. And Pharaoh turned and went into his house, neither did he set his heart to this also.
(Ex 7:22-23)

But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had
said. (Ex 8:15)

Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaohs heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had
said. (Ex 8:19)

And Pharaoh
hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the
people go. (Ex 8:32)

And Pharaoh sent, and, behold, there was not one of
the cattle of the Israelites dead. And the
heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people
go. (Ex 9:7)

And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and
the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more,
and hardened his heart, he
and his servants. And the heart of Pharaoh
was hardened, neither would he let the children Israel go; as
the LORD had spoken. (Ex 9:34-35)

Wherefore then do ye
harden your hearts, as the
Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? when he had wrought
wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they
departed? (1Sam 6:6)










RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-14 Thread ShieldsFamily
Lance, were you commenting on the posts below or on something entirely
irrelevant? Izzy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 10:44 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

It's a different culture, David. You do understand that Britain, Europe,
Eurasia, the near/far east, Russia etc. are significantly different
cultures, do you not? What may pass as OK in the good old 'shoot 'em up' US
of A would not pass of OK in Japan, do you not? Canada ain't America, thank
God!


- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: May 14, 2005 12:19
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism


 Caroline wrote:
  Someone I don't know, trust, believe or even like shouting at me
  stuff that is offensive to my ears is disturbing my right to peace
  and quiet and my right to be unmolested  and intimidated when
  I enter my place of worship.

 Hmmm.  Is there a problem with tolerance here?  You don't have a right to
 quietness when you are outside your place of worship (place of
worship? -- 
 another topic that needs addressing at another time).  When you are inside
 your place of worship then you have a right to quietness.  Those who
want
 quietness in public places do not really believe in free speech.

 Caroline wrote:
  What if it wasn't a Street Preacher on the video but Skin Heads,
  NeoNazis or Satanists cursing you while you're trying to get
  into a meeting?

 Cursing is another issue entirely, but if they were out in front of my
 place of worship rebuking those attending church, that would be just
fine.
 That is what freedom of speech is all about.  More than that, I would very
 much welcome it because it would cause those entering to examine
themselves
 whether they be in the faith.  What is dangerous is when you have nobody
in
 society rebuking the sinners within it.  Some of the church hypocrites
need
 some rebuking, even if it were to come from Satanists.  If you know any
who
 want to rebuke Christians, please send them over to my church meeting
place.

 Caroline wrote:
  Is there any law in America that you could use to stop
  them or are they totally protected by the ACLU too?

 Our Constitution protects the right of speech in public places.  Does
Canada
 have any laws that protect free speech?  Are most Canadians against free
 speech?

 Peace be with you.
 David Miller.


 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
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--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.



--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.


Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-13 Thread Lance Muir



Nickolson to Cruise 'You can't handle the truth'. 
Hi kids! Can you all say the word 'implosion'?

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Caroline 
  Wong 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 13, 2005 00:11
  Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] 
  baptism
  
  Yikes, that old myth. Do you guys want the truth? 
  Can you handle the truth? Then read this article from the Wasthington 
  Post.Charge Often Repeated by U.S. Officials
  By Doug StruckWashington Post Foreign 
  ServiceSaturday, April 9, 2005; Page A20
  TORONTO -- True or false? Shortly before 
  Sept. 11, 2001, several of the terrorists who would carry out the attacks that 
  day slipped into the United States from Canada. Canadian officials are 
  vexed that 3 1/2 years later, they have not dispelled the groundless claim 
  that Canada was a route for the Sept. 11 hijackers. Frank McKenna, the new 
  ambassador to the United States, calls it an "urban myth" and has been trying 
  to beat it down in television interviews and letters to the editor."It 
  took on a life of its own, like a viral infection," McKenna said in a 
  telephone interview from Washington. This lingering headache for Canada 
  underlines the enduring life of inaccuracies in the media and the sensitivity 
  of Canadians to suggestions that their country's long and lightly guarded 
  border is a threat to the United States. "It's something that won't go 
  away," Bill Graham, Canada's defense minister, said of the apocryphal claim in 
  an interview Monday. "We're very resentful . . . because not one suspect had 
  been in Canada. All had been in the U.S., training in the U.S., with valid 
  U.S. visas." The account was born in the first days after the attacks, 
  when reporters and government investigators were scrambling to figure out how 
  the conspirators had carried out the plot. Bernard Etzinger, a Canadian 
  Embassy spokesman, says the "big bang" that started the legend can be traced 
  to two Boston newspapers. A Boston Globe story on Sept. 13 said 
  investigators were "seeking evidence" that the hijackers came through Canada. 
  The Boston Herald reported the same day that federal investigators believed 
  "the terrorist suspects may have traveled . . . by boat" from Canada. On 
  Sept. 14, The Washington Post reported that an unnamed U.S. official had said 
  two suspects "crossed the border from Canada with no known difficulty at a 
  small border entry in Coburn Gore, Maine," and that others may have come 
  through other Maine ports. On Sept. 16, that report was repeated by the New 
  York Post, which also declared that "terrorists bent on wreaking havoc in the 
  United States" had found Canada "the path of least resistance." On Sept. 19, 
  the Christian Science Monitor referred to Canada as "a haven for terrorists." 
  "It was just one of those things where everybody says, 'We all knew that,' 
  and it becomes irrefutable," Etzinger said. In the weeks after the 
  attacks, investigators established that all of the hijackers entered the 
  United States from countries other than Canada, a finding that got the 
  official stamp last summer with the release of the Sept. 11 commission report. 
  But that has not stopped the story from spreading. The Canadian Embassy in 
  Washington keeps a chart of new reports of the rumor. The chart shows that at 
  least three U.S. representatives and one senator have recently repeated the 
  claim. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) was quoted in October as 
  saying the terrorists had crossed into New York from Canada. Her office 
  disputes the quotes, but they prompted a flurry of outrage and demands in 
  Canada for an apology. "It hurt Canadian feelings, particularly because we 
  thought the Clintons were our pals," said Norman Hillmer, a professor at 
  Carlton University in Ottawa and the author of a book on U.S.-Canadian 
  relations. In August, Rep. Ruben Hinojosa (D-Tex.) declared to a 
  congressional committee -- and repeated in a press release -- that "as we all 
  know, terrorists entered the U.S. from Canada on Sept. 11, 2001, using 
  passports that the Canadians accepted as valid despite the fact that the 
  documents were doctored." The Canadian Embassy filed its now standard 
  protest, and the congressman asked that the remarks be stricken from the 
  committee record. He believed they were true from "some inferences," said his 
  spokeswoman, Ciaran Clayton. "Those inferences were wrong." "Once a story 
  is out there, it gets picked up and repeated," Graham, the defense minister, 
  said with a sigh. "People don't check to see if it's been contradicted." 
  Canadian officials concede that they are sensitive about the matter. "It 
  vexes Canadians, because it's not just an untruth, but

RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-13 Thread ShieldsFamily








Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus,
or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs
heart? Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bothoms
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 2:28 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk]
[TruthTalk] baptism









David: Why would such be bad? Have you not read how the
Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart? Don't you think Jesus himself hardened the
hearts of the scholars (both Sadducees and Pharisees) of his day? Was
that bad?











Raymond: I respectfully disagree. The Lord does not
hardened hearts; He softens them.












Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-13 Thread Lance Muir



Izzy, have you considered that your reading of the 
Lord hardening Pharoah's heart may not be the correct reading? Would you 
consider that some may define that _expression_ differently than you? 
Consider that Raymond may be correctly assessing the heart of God (one who 
softens instead of hardens) and then approaching the passage in Exodus. 
The eyeglasses one wears always colour our perceptions. Our view of God 
colours how we read Scripture. If we view God asOne who hardens 
hearts we will then look at this text as justifying what we already 
believe. If we view God as being One who is love (in His very core of 
being) we will delve in and wrestle with the text (note that the textalso 
says that Pharoah hardened his own heart etc.) instead of approaching it with a 
tentative surface meaning. We all become like the God we adore. 
Those that adore a hard, vengeful, angry God tend to be hard, vengeful and angry 
right here on TT.

A new approach to people's posts on TT would be 
beneficial. Before we rush to defend our own opinions with our prooftexts 
perhaps wrestling with why a person holds a certain belief would be in 
order. Would it have hurt to see that you may have agreed with Raymond 
when he says that God softens hearts? Has God ever softened yours? 
Could you have used that to continue (rather than end) the dialogue? 
Rather than 10 vacuous posts a day how about just one well-thought, well 
constructed, and well meaning post?

Jonathan
Truthtalk Alumnis

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 13, 2005 17:24
  Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] 
  [TruthTalk] baptism
  
  
  Raymond, Have you not 
  read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord 
  hardened Pharaoh’s heart? Izzy
  
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of BothomsSent: Friday, May 13, 2005 2:28 
  PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] 
  [TruthTalk] baptism
  
  
  
  David: Why would such be bad? Have you not 
  read how the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart? Don't you think Jesus 
  himself hardened the hearts of the scholars (both Sadducees and Pharisees) of 
  his day? Was that bad?
  
  
  
  Raymond: I respectfully disagree. The Lord 
  does not hardened hearts; He softens 
  them.


Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-13 Thread Kevin Deegan
Maybe if you read the bible, instead of fantasy books, you would have a understanding of what God's word has to say on the subject.

Why is it that every time one of you Liberals disagrees with God's word of course it is a incorrect reading?
Who made you chief editor of God's word?
Maybe it is God who has Hardened you Bible Correctors Hearts, as his judgement of your rebellious spirit.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:








Izzy, have you considered that your reading of the Lord hardening Pharoah's heart may not be the correct reading? Would you consider that some may define that _expression_ differently than you? Consider that Raymond may be correctly assessing the heart of God (one who softens instead of hardens) and then approaching the passage in Exodus. The eyeglasses one wears always colour our perceptions. Our view of God colours how we read Scripture. If we view God asOne who hardens hearts we will then look at this text as justifying what we already believe. If we view God as being One who is love (in His very core of being) we will delve in and wrestle with the text (note that the textalso says that Pharoah hardened his own heart etc.) instead of approaching it with a tentative surface meaning. We all become like the God we adore. Those that adore a hard, vengeful, angry God tend to be hard, vengeful and
 angry right here on TT.

A new approach to people's posts on TT would be beneficial. Before we rush to defend our own opinions with our prooftexts perhaps wrestling with why a person holds a certain belief would be in order. Would it have hurt to see that you may have agreed with Raymond when he says that God softens hearts? Has God ever softened yours? Could you have used that to continue (rather than end) the dialogue? Rather than 10 vacuous posts a day how about just one well-thought, well constructed, and well meaning post?

Jonathan
Truthtalk Alumnis

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: May 13, 2005 17:24
Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism


Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart? Izzy





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of BothomsSent: Friday, May 13, 2005 2:28 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism



David: Why would such be bad? Have you not read how the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart? Don't you think Jesus himself hardened the hearts of the scholars (both Sadducees and Pharisees) of his day? Was that bad?



Raymond: I respectfully disagree. The Lord does not hardened hearts; He softens them.
		Discover Yahoo! 
Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news & more. Check it out!

Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-13 Thread Caroline Wong



Jonathan does not disagree with God's word and he 
is well versed in what God said in the bible. As JD found out, new wine is 
poured into new wineskins. Very early in my TT days, my pastor said that I can't 
change another person's beliefs without giving them something else to believe 
in. I will add that unless God changed a person, madehim intonew 
wineskin, new beliefswill causehim to burst. It is self preservation 
to reject new wine until that transformation happens. 

I'm referring to us all- by whatever label 
that's been applied to us - saint, sinner, Christian, anti-whatever, liberal, 
fundy. godly, godless

By the way,this is the label that we 
(everyone of us here) give ourselves: true Christ followers.

Love,

Caroline

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 8:44 PM
  Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] 
  [TruthTalk] baptism
  
  Maybe if you read the bible, instead of fantasy books, you would have a 
  understanding of what God's word has to say on the subject.
  
  Why is it that every time one of you Liberals disagrees with God's word 
  of course it is a incorrect reading?
  Who made you chief editor of God's word?
  Maybe it is God who has Hardened you Bible Correctors Hearts, as his 
  judgement of your rebellious spirit.Lance Muir 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  







Izzy, have you considered that your reading of 
the Lord hardening Pharoah's heart may not be the correct reading? 
Would you consider that some may define that _expression_ differently than 
you? Consider that Raymond may be correctly assessing the heart of God 
(one who softens instead of hardens) and then approaching the passage in 
Exodus. The eyeglasses one wears always colour our perceptions. 
Our view of God colours how we read Scripture. If we view God 
asOne who hardens hearts we will then look at this text as justifying 
what we already believe. If we view God as being One who is love (in 
His very core of being) we will delve in and wrestle with the text (note 
that the textalso says that Pharoah hardened his own heart etc.) 
instead of approaching it with a tentative surface meaning. We all 
become like the God we adore. Those that adore a hard, vengeful, angry 
God tend to be hard, vengeful and angry right here on TT.

A new approach to people's posts on TT would be 
beneficial. Before we rush to defend our own opinions with our 
prooftexts perhaps wrestling with why a person holds a certain belief would 
be in order. Would it have hurt to see that you may have agreed with 
Raymond when he says that God softens hearts? Has God ever softened 
yours? Could you have used that to continue (rather than end) the 
dialogue? Rather than 10 vacuous posts a day how about just one 
well-thought, well constructed, and well meaning post?

Jonathan
Truthtalk Alumnis

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 13, 2005 17:24
  Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] 
  [TruthTalk] baptism
  
  
  Raymond, Have you 
  not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says 
  the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart? Izzy
  
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of BothomsSent: Friday, May 13, 2005 2:28 
  PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] 
  [TruthTalk] baptism
  
  
  
  David: Why would such be bad? Have you 
  not read how the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart? Don't you think 
  Jesus himself hardened the hearts of the scholars (both Sadducees and 
  Pharisees) of his day? Was that 
  bad?
  
  
  
  Raymond: I respectfully disagree. The 
  Lord does not hardened hearts; He softens 
  them.
  
  
  Discover Yahoo!Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news  more. 
  Check 
  it out!


RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-13 Thread ShieldsFamily








Izzy in blue:









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 4:53 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re:
[Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism







Izzy, have you considered that your reading of the Lord
hardening Pharoah's heart may not be the correct reading?No, as I can read and thats what it
says. Do you have an alternative reading of I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go? If so, please post it. Would you consider that some may
define that _expression_ (_expression_?)
differently than you? You mean
some may reconstruct what it actually says to suit their own biases? Consider
that Raymond may be correctly assessing the heart of God (one who softens
instead of hardens) and then approaching the passage in Exodus.Please supply scriptural basis when
disagreeing with what scripture says. God
does both; not either/or. The eyeglasses one
wears always colour our perceptions. No doubt, Jonathanyou are living proof. Our
view of God colours how we read Scripture.Our view on the trustworthiness of scripture colors it more.
If we view God asOne who hardens hearts we will then
look at this text as justifying what we already believe.I have read what the Bible says and believed what God said
about it. I did not have a preconceived point of view like you, so I am free to
accept what it actually says. If we view God as being One
who is love (in His very core of being) we will delve in and wrestle with the
text I never wrestle
with Gods textI believe it, even when it doesnt say what I
want it to. (note that the textalso says that Pharoah
hardened his own heart etc.That does
not nullify the other scriptures saying that God hardened his heartboth are
true. You only accept one.) instead of approaching it with
a tentative surface meaning.Please
show us your subsurface meaning. We all become like the God we
adore.I certainly hope so.
Those that adore a hard, vengeful, angry God tend to be hard, vengeful and
angry right here on TT.Again you are
living proof of your own words. I am not angry, hard or vengeful.
You perceive me to be, which tells us more about you than about me. 











A new approach to people's posts on TT would be
beneficial.By and for whom? Before
we rush to defend our own opinions with our prooftexts (Where were those? Ohyou mean the Bible? perhaps
wrestling with why a person holds a certain belief would be in order. I really dont have time to figure
out why everyone on TT believes what they doonly God knows, Im
sure. Would it have hurt to see that you may have agreed with
Raymond when he says that God softens hearts? God does soften hearts, but He also hardens them, as the
Bible says. The SAME message will
soften one hart while it hardens anotherever notice that? That is
why Gods word is called a Two Edged Sword! Has God ever softened yours?Absolutely. Could you have
used that to continue (rather than end) the dialogue? I guess you missed the part where I asked him further
questions about why he believes God didnt harden Pharaohs heart? Rather
than 10 vacuous posts a day how about just one well-thought, well constructed,
and well meaning post? And who is
angry, hard, and vengeful? Nice talk, Jonathan. Good thing that God is the One
that I depend on for approval; not you. For that reason I dont have to
suffer hurt feelings over your scathing comments. Izzy











Jonathan





Truthtalk Alumnis (Alumnus?)









- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: May 13, 2005 17:24





Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk]
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism









Raymond, Have you not read the book of
Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened
Pharaohs heart? Izzy











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bothoms
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 2:28 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk]
[TruthTalk] baptism









David: Why would such be bad? Have you not read how the
Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart? Don't you think Jesus himself hardened the
hearts of the scholars (both Sadducees and Pharisees) of his day? Was
that bad?











Raymond: I respectfully disagree. The Lord does not hardened hearts; He
softens them.














Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-12 Thread Lance Muir



Jt:'Every dog..':I'm looking at the clock It's late 
in the West and early in the South and East.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 12, 2005 02:51
  Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] 
  baptism
  
  
  Fair weather friends want to have their cake and eat 
  it too; if Canada were invaded by an enemy you can bet
  the US would be invited to the party and fast. 
  Passivity which makes no demands orwaves usually thinks it 
  has
  lots of friends because it is no threat but sometimes 
  we need to wait and see what happens when the chips are 
  down - every dog has it's day. 
  jt.
  
  On Wed, 11 May 2005 23:44:41 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
There is tremendous grace in Canada. You can do 
stuff that annoy us. We can disagree on lots of things. We can even decline 
your kind invitation to join the "coalition of the willing". But we still 
consider you friends. This is very key. Think about it. Canada has lots of 
friends. America has few. Like a child in a playground, when America is 
upset, she cries out, you're not my friend. Canada answers but I'm still 
yours.

Love, Caroline


Kevin writes: I just saw a news item 
When asked who is theirclosest friend Canadians said the USA 
Americans said EnglandCaroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

  

We took a leaf from your founding fathers: 
Your freedom ends when it encroaches mine.

  From: Kevin Deegan 
  
  What a resounding defense of the freedom you enjoy in 
  CanaDuHCaroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote: 
  



They would probably end up in jail. No 
ACLU up here. No first amendment. Then they will be able to preach 
to the "perverts" and "sodomites" in prison. Perhaps that will be 
God's plan for them. Don't worry, I hear Canadian jailsare 
kinder and gentler places than American jails.

Love, Caroline

  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  And that would be your loss Lance ... 
  Pray they will grace Ontario with a visit - jt
  
  On Wed, 11 May 2005 15:50:06 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
I wouldn't cross the street to see 
the 'cow suit' or, for that matter, Kevin.

  From: Judy Taylor 
  From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]I 
  know Jesus. 
  Kevin is no Jesus. Very bad illustration, Charles Perry 
  Locke. (heretofor 'Chuckie' after the films)
  
  The Jesus you know 
  is not the same being Lance.
  Yours is complacent and has a gospel 
  that was never preached by Paul or any of the 
  apostles.
  Have youheard Kevin preaching 
  on the streetor areyou judging what you have 
  experienced and
  giving your opinion re something you 
  know nothing of? I thought 
  the tactics of Chuck Spingola were
  a little over the top - But have 
  repented of that because -They are out thereI'll 
  go to seeRuben in 
  his cow suit if he ever comes to VA 
  -Waving that underwear 
  getsmore than a yawn :). jt
  
  
  
  From: "Charles Perry Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Lance, do you think Jesus was giving Christianity a "bad rap" 
  when he overturned the moneylenders' tables in the 
  temple? Instead, should he have quoted some 2nd 
  century BC greek philospopher on the existential 
  qualities of selling in the temple, then entered into 
  meaningful dialog about what the philosopher really 
  meant, whether or not it applies today, and then 
  discussed how different interpretations of the scripture (OT) 
  fit in with the philosophy? Lets be Real Christians, 
  okay? From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  It amazes me that could could ask this of Dave, Perry! ,at 
  least without a 'smiley'. Kevin is a jerk and, he 
  comes accross as one (I probably do as well) on 
  TT. I bet he does 'on the street' also. It is such that 
  give chris

Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-12 Thread Lance Muir



It's no surprize to me, and I suspect to anyone who 
has been reading you, that this would be your 'take'. It just may be a 
surprize for you to discover that it is not God's 'take' (proof texting aside). 
When I think of you, Kevin and the bunch who do what you do, I cannot but think 
of the assault on the compound housing David Koresh. Many who were innocent 
died.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  David Miller 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 12, 2005 07:23
  Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] 
  baptism
  
  Caroline wrote:
   Did what 
  Kevin et. al. do harden people's hearts and 
   turn them away from Jesus Christ? Then 
  that's bad. 
  
  Why would such be bad? Have you not read how the Lord hardened 
  Pharaoh's heart? Don't you think Jesus himself hardened the hearts of 
  the scholars (both Sadducees and Pharisees) of his day? Was that 
  bad?
  
  What God hates more than hardened hearts is apathy and 
  lukewarmness. God's ministers polarize people, dividing the wicked from 
  the righteous. People need to be pushed toward loving God with all their 
  hearts or toward hardened hearts and a disdain for Christianity. I see 
  this as a good thing. Choose this day whom you will serve, then do it 
  with all your heart.
  
  Peace be with you.David Miller.


Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-12 Thread Judy Taylor



My, My, what strange mind convolutions Lance. I would 
never have put the two together in any way, shape, or form.
1. Kevin and the Street Preachers have no 
commune
2. Their preaching points to Jesus, not some pre 
eminent man
3. The assault on the Koresh Compound in Waco TX was 
lousy leadership permitting the BATF to run amuck

On Thu, 12 May 2005 07:59:56 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  It's no surprize to me, and I suspect to anyone 
  who has been reading you, that this would be your 'take'. It just may be 
  a surprize for you to discover that it is not God's 'take' (proof texting 
  aside). When I think of you, Kevin and the bunch who do what you do, I cannot 
  but think of the assault on the compound housing David Koresh. Many who were 
  innocent died.
  
From: David Miller 

Caroline wrote:
 Did what 
Kevin et. al. do harden people's hearts and 
 turn them away from Jesus Christ? Then 
that's bad. 

Why would such be bad? Have you not read how the Lord hardened 
Pharaoh's heart? Don't you think Jesus himself hardened the hearts of 
the scholars (both Sadducees and Pharisees) of his day? Was that 
bad?

What God hates more than hardened hearts is apathy and 
lukewarmness. God's ministers polarize people, dividing the wicked 
from the righteous. People need to be pushed toward loving God with 
all their hearts or toward hardened hearts and a disdain for 
Christianity. I see this as a good thing. Choose this day whom 
you will serve, then do it with all your heart.

Peace be with you.David Miller.
  


Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-12 Thread Kevin Deegan
And it was the goverment who burnt all those children under the guise of "saving" them.
But what does that have to do with me?
Don't look now but your Extreme Liberal views are showingLance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




It's no surprize to me, and I suspect to anyone who has been reading you, that this would be your 'take'. It just may be a surprize for you to discover that it is not God's 'take' (proof texting aside). When I think of you, Kevin and the bunch who do what you do, I cannot but think of the assault on the compound housing David Koresh. Many who were innocent died.

- Original Message - 
From: David Miller 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: May 12, 2005 07:23
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

Caroline wrote:
 Did what Kevin et. al. do harden people's hearts and 
 turn them away from Jesus Christ? Then that's bad. 

Why would such be bad? Have you not read how the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart? Don't you think Jesus himself hardened the hearts of the scholars (both Sadducees and Pharisees) of his day? Was that bad?

What God hates more than hardened hearts is apathy and lukewarmness. God's ministers polarize people, dividing the wicked from the righteous. People need to be pushed toward loving God with all their hearts or toward hardened hearts and a disdain for Christianity. I see this as a good thing. Choose this day whom you will serve, then do it with all your heart.

Peace be with you.David Miller.__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-12 Thread Kevin Deegan
Who is promoting Hate now?
Trying to associate me with Koresh - Amazing
Who was it the other day tried to fit SP's  Hitler in the same sentence?
Oh yeah and those Fundamentalists in Geneva

It is a good thing you did not say that in CanaDuH they would arrest you Hypocrites!Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




It's no surprize to me, and I suspect to anyone who has been reading you, that this would be your 'take'. It just may be a surprize for you to discover that it is not God's 'take' (proof texting aside). When I think of you, Kevin and the bunch who do what you do, I cannot but think of the assault on the compound housing David Koresh. Many who were innocent died.

- Original Message - 
From: David Miller 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: May 12, 2005 07:23
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

Caroline wrote:
 Did what Kevin et. al. do harden people's hearts and 
 turn them away from Jesus Christ? Then that's bad. 

Why would such be bad? Have you not read how the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart? Don't you think Jesus himself hardened the hearts of the scholars (both Sadducees and Pharisees) of his day? Was that bad?

What God hates more than hardened hearts is apathy and lukewarmness. God's ministers polarize people, dividing the wicked from the righteous. People need to be pushed toward loving God with all their hearts or toward hardened hearts and a disdain for Christianity. I see this as a good thing. Choose this day whom you will serve, then do it with all your heart.

Peace be with you.David Miller.__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-12 Thread ShieldsFamily








AND it was done by the Democrats with
Janet Reno at the helm (remember; the Liberals in charge). Izzy















3. The assault on the Koresh Compound in Waco TX was
lousy leadership permitting the BATF to run amuck










RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-12 Thread ShieldsFamily








Lance, you make the ministers of the
gospel your enemy. That makes no sense for one who calls himself a Believer.
How many souls do you think they must save in order to qualify for your
approval? Hundreds? Dozens? One? How many would appease youor does
that not matter? Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 6:00
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk]
[TruthTalk] baptism







It's no surprize to me, and I suspect to anyone who has been
reading you, that this would be your 'take'. It just may be a surprize
for you to discover that it is not God's 'take' (proof texting aside). When I
think of you, Kevin and the bunch who do what you do, I cannot but think of the
assault on the compound housing David Koresh. Many who were innocent died.







- Original Message - 





From: David Miller 





To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: May 12, 2005 07:23





Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk]
[TruthTalk] baptism











Caroline wrote:





 Did what Kevin et. al. do harden people's hearts and 





 turn them away from Jesus Christ? Then that's bad. 











Why would such be bad? Have you not read how the Lord hardened
Pharaoh's heart? Don't you think Jesus himself hardened the hearts of the
scholars (both Sadducees and Pharisees) of his day? Was that bad?











What God hates more than hardened hearts is apathy and
lukewarmness. God's ministers polarize people, dividing the wicked from
the righteous. People need to be pushed toward loving God with all their hearts
or toward hardened hearts and a disdain for Christianity. I see this as a
good thing. Choose this day whom you will serve, then do it with all your
heart.











Peace be with you.
David Miller.












RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-12 Thread Kevin Deegan
Reno? Wasn't that the one who raided someones closet to steal a terrified boy to send back to Communist Cuba!
Isn't she the one that sent a confidential alert "Project Megiddo,"to Law enforcement about Demestic Terrorists (read -Christians with a literal understanding of the scriptures)
 don't forget Louie 'Freeah'
Christians a 'hate group'
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/hate_group_christians.htm

"Some groups include apocalyptic Christianity in their ideology and believe we are in, or approaching, a period of violence and social turmoil which will precede the Second Coming of Christ."
Unless Reno and Sheridan can show otherwise, McCoy takes this to mean anyone with a literal interpretation of the Bible, especially in regard to scriptures on prophecy, is part and parcel of a hate group.
http://permanent.access.gpo.gov/lps3578/www.fbi.gov/library/megiddo/megiddo.pdfhttp://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/apocalypse/readings/project.htmlProject Megiddo
http://persecution.homestead.com/A_PS_TheComingPersecution.htmlUS Attorney General Janet Reno has sent a confidential memo to the U.S. attorneys that an investigation would take place against "right wing and fundamentalist Christians." In the event of a wide spread uprising (as in martial law or a national disaster) these individuals must be viewed as "potential terrorists."Janet Reno, former U.S. Attorney General
http://www.jerryesmith.com/news/index.php?itemid=47PASTORS MUST BE ORDAINED BY THE IRS
ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:









AND it was done by the Democrats with Janet Reno at the helm (remember; the Liberals in charge). Izzy






3. The assault on the Koresh Compound in Waco TX was lousy leadership permitting the BATF to run amuck
		Discover Yahoo! 
Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM & more. Check it out!

Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-11 Thread Lance Muir



I think that some time in the hoosegow (do they 
still call it that Terry?) would do Kevin a world of good.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 11, 2005 15:58
  Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] 
  baptism
  
  And that would be your loss Lance ... Pray they will 
  grace Ontario with a visit - jt
  
  On Wed, 11 May 2005 15:50:06 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
I wouldn't cross the street to see the 'cow 
suit' or, for that matter, Kevin.

  From: Judy Taylor 
  From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]I 
  know Jesus. 
  Kevin is no Jesus. Very bad illustration, Charles Perry Locke. 
  (heretofor 'Chuckie' after the films)
  
  The Jesus you know is not the 
  same being Lance.
  Yours is complacent and has a gospel that was 
  never preached by Paul or any of the apostles.
  Have youheard Kevin preaching on the 
  streetor areyou judging what you have experienced 
  and
  giving your opinion re something you know nothing of? I thought the tactics of Chuck 
  Spingola were
  a little over the top - But have repented of that 
  because -They are out thereI'll go to seeRuben in 
  
  his cow suit if he ever comes to VA 
  -Waving that underwear getsmore 
  than a yawn :). jt
  
  
  
  From: "Charles Perry Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Lance, do you think Jesus was giving Christianity a "bad rap" when 
  he overturned the moneylenders' tables in the temple? Instead, 
  should he have quoted some 2nd century BC greek philospopher on 
  the existential qualities of selling in the temple, then entered 
  into meaningful dialog about what the philosopher really meant, 
  whether or not it applies today, and then discussed how different 
  interpretations of the scripture (OT) fit in with the philosophy? 
  Lets be Real Christians, okay? From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  It amazes me that could could ask this of Dave, Perry! ,at least 
  without a 'smiley'. Kevin is a jerk and, he comes accross as 
  one (I probably do as well) on TT. I bet he does 'on the 
  street' also. It is such that give christianity a bad rep. He 
  probably sees himself as 'suffering for the cause 
  of Christ' whereas it's just the 'jerk factor' in play. 
   Kevin:Speaking JtoJ we ought to keep this in 
  mind.
   From: "Charles Perry Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
   Dave,   I can't understand why you 
  do not hang on every word Kevin posts!He   backs up 
  all of his biblical claims with scripture references, and not 
  just   one or two, with several to many. He backs up 
  what he claims about the   Mormon church with statements 
  from your own non-prophets and leaders.He has  
   a passion for the Lord, and quite evidently has been called to 
  usethis   passion, and his knowledge of the Word, to 
  spread the gospel. I would expect   him to act 
  no differently on TT than he does on the street. Justbecause 
  he   does not fit your idea of what Truth Talk should 
  be does not mean that his   exchanges are not 
  meaningful. In fact, in terms of proclaiming the 
  gospel to   the unsaved, Kevin is probably 
  doing more on TT than any other poster. He   
  steadfastly sticks to the message, not straying into the 
  pseudo-intellectual   realms of so many posts. Those 
  things are often titillating and fun to   ponder, but when 
  it comes down to it, either you believe or you don't.  
 Perry From: 
  Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
   Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] baptism   Date: 
  Tue, 10 May 2005 23:46:44 -0700  
  DAVEH: Nothing will make for easier discussions, IF one of 
  theparties   does not want to have a meaningful 
  exchange, Kevin. I view TT asbeing a  
   place where two or more people of contrasting opinions can 
  explorewhy   other's believe differently. I 
  perceive that some TTers (such as yourself)   
  are here not to have a meaningful discussion unless it results in 
  the other   person adopting your 
  beliefs. Basically, you want to use TT as aforum 
  to   convert people to Christianity as you 
  understand it...is thatcorrect?   Assuming so, you 
  probably don't feel a need to find areas of common 
  belief,   but rather cut right to the chase and 
  try to overwhelm your opponent with   
  their error of thought/belief as you perceive it. Have I 
  analyzed it   correctly, Kevin?   
  I harbor no illusions about 
  changing your anti attitudes, Kevin. But I 

Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-11 Thread Terry Clifton




Lance Muir wrote:

  
  
  
  I think that some time in the
hoosegow (do they still call it that Terry?) would do Kevin a world of
good.

Only in cheap westerns.




Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-11 Thread Kevin Deegan
Wasn't it Lance's buddy who left TT after cursing at me?

Jail? What are you talking about? Is canaDuH that messed up?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




I think that some time in the hoosegow (do they still call it that Terry?) would do Kevin a world of good.

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: May 11, 2005 15:58
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

And that would be your loss Lance ... Pray they will grace Ontario with a visit - jt

On Wed, 11 May 2005 15:50:06 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I wouldn't cross the street to see the 'cow suit' or, for that matter, Kevin.

From: Judy Taylor 
From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]I know Jesus. 
Kevin is no Jesus. Very bad illustration, Charles Perry Locke. (heretofor 'Chuckie' after the films)

The Jesus you know is not the same being Lance.
Yours is complacent and has a gospel that was never preached by Paul or any of the apostles.
Have youheard Kevin preaching on the streetor areyou judging what you have experienced and
giving your opinion re something you know nothing of? I thought the tactics of Chuck Spingola were
a little over the top - But have repented of that because -They are out thereI'll go to seeRuben in 
his cow suit if he ever comes to VA -Waving that underwear getsmore than a yawn :). jt



From: "Charles Perry Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lance, do you think Jesus was giving Christianity a "bad rap" when he overturned the moneylenders' tables in the temple? Instead, should he have quoted some 2nd century BC greek philospopher on the existential qualities of selling in the temple, then entered into meaningful dialog about what the philosopher really meant, whether or not it applies today, and then discussed how different interpretations of the scripture (OT) fit in with the philosophy? Lets be Real Christians, okay? From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] It amazes me that could could ask this of Dave, Perry! ,at least without a 'smiley'. Kevin is a jerk and, he comes accross as one (I probably do as well) on TT. I bet he does 'on the street' also. It is such
 that give christianity a bad rep. He probably sees himself as 'suffering for the cause of Christ' whereas it's just the 'jerk factor' in play.  Kevin:Speaking JtoJ we ought to keep this in mind.
 From: "Charles Perry Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Dave,   I can't understand why you do not hang on every word Kevin posts!He   backs up all of his biblical claims with scripture references, and not just   one or two, with several to many. He backs up what he claims about the   Mormon church with statements from your own non-prophets and leaders.He has   a passion for the Lord, and quite evidently has been called to usethis   passion, and his knowledge of the Word, to spread the gospel. I would expect   him to act no differently on TT than he does on the street. Justbecause he   does not fit your idea of what Truth Talk should be does not mean that his   exchanges are
 not meaningful. In fact, in terms of proclaiming the gospel to   the unsaved, Kevin is probably doing more on TT than any other poster. He   steadfastly sticks to the message, not straying into the pseudo-intellectual   realms of so many posts. Those things are often titillating and fun to   ponder, but when it comes down to it, either you believe or you don't. Perry From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org   Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] baptism   Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 23:46:44 -0700  
DAVEH: Nothing will make for easier discussions, IF one of theparties   does not want to have a meaningful exchange, Kevin. I view TT asbeing a   place where two or more people of contrasting opinions can explorewhy   other's believe differently. I perceive that some TTers (such as yourself)   are here not to have a meaningful discussion unless it results in the other   person adopting your beliefs. Basically, you want to use TT as aforum to   convert people to Christianity as you understand it...is thatcorrect?   Assuming so, you probably don't feel a need to find areas of common belief,   but rather cut right to the chase and try to overwhelm your opponent with 
  their error of thought/belief as you perceive it. Have I analyzed it   correctly, Kevin?   I harbor no illusions about changing your anti attitudes, Kevin. But I   am curious as to why you are as you are (and why you believe as you do), if   that makes any sense. It's just one of my hang-ups I suppose. So, every   now and then you do reveal a bit about yourself, for which I am   appreciative. But as I see it, you mostly put up a pretty thick wall   hoping to wear your opponents down in their futile efforts toovercome that   wall. Then you try to attack their perceived soft spot, hoping for a quick   victory.  
 That'll be $250 for your 

RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-11 Thread ShieldsFamily








Yes. 











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 4:55
PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk]
[TruthTalk] baptism







Wasn't it Lance's buddy who left TT after cursing at me?











Jail? What are you talking about? Is canaDuH that messed up?

Lance Muir
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:







I think that some time in the hoosegow (do they still call
it that Terry?) would do Kevin a world of good.







- Original Message - 





From: Judy Taylor






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: May 11, 2005 15:58





Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk]
[TruthTalk] baptism











And that would be your loss Lance ...
Pray they will grace Ontario
with a visit - jt











On Wed, 11 May 2005 15:50:06 -0400 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:







I wouldn't cross the street to see the 'cow suit' or, for
that matter, Kevin.







From: Judy Taylor







From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I know Jesus. 





Kevin is no Jesus. Very bad illustration, Charles Perry Locke. (heretofor
'Chuckie' after the films)











The Jesus you know is not the same being
Lance.





Yours is complacent and has a gospel
that was never preached by Paul or any of the apostles.





Have youheard Kevin preaching on
the streetor areyou judging what you have experienced and





giving your opinion re something you
know nothing of? I thought the tactics of Chuck Spingola were





a little over the top - But have
repented of that because -They are out thereI'll go to
seeRuben in 





his cow suit if he ever comes to VA
-Waving that underwear getsmore than a yawn :). jt























From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Lance, do you think Jesus was giving Christianity a bad rap
when he
 overturned the moneylenders' tables in the temple? Instead, should he have
 quoted some 2nd century BC greek philospopher on the existential qualities
 of selling in the temple, then entered into meaningful dialog about what
the
 philosopher really meant, whether or not it applies today, and then
 discussed how different interpretations of the scripture (OT) fit in with
 the philosophy? Lets be Real Christians, okay?

 From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 It amazes me that could could ask this of Dave, Perry! ,at least
without a
 'smiley'. Kevin is a jerk and, he comes accross as one (I probably do
as
 well) on TT. I bet he does 'on the street' also. It is such that give
 christianity a bad rep. He probably sees himself as 'suffering for the
 cause
 of Christ' whereas it's just the 'jerk factor' in play.
 
 Kevin:Speaking JtoJ we ought to keep this in mind.






 From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Dave,
   I can't understand why you do not hang on
every word Kevin posts!
He
   backs up all of his biblical claims with scripture references,
and not
 just
   one or two, with several to many. He backs up what he claims
about the
   Mormon church with statements from your own non-prophets and
leaders.
He
 has
   a passion for the Lord, and quite evidently has been called to
use
this
   passion, and his knowledge of the Word, to spread the gospel. I would
 expect
   him to act no differently on TT than he does on the street. Just
because
 he
   does not fit your idea of what Truth Talk should be does not
mean that
 his
   exchanges are not meaningful. In fact, in terms of proclaiming
the
 gospel
 to
   the unsaved, Kevin is probably doing more on TT than any other
poster.
 He
   steadfastly sticks to the message, not straying into the
 pseudo-intellectual
   realms of so many posts. Those things are often titillating and
fun to
   ponder, but when it comes down to it, either you believe or you
don't.
  
   Perry
  
   From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
   Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] baptism
   Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 23:46:44 -0700
   
   DAVEH: Nothing will make for easier discussions, IF
one of the
parties
   does not want to have a meaningful exchange, Kevin. I
view TT as
being
 a
   place where two or more people of contrasting opinions can
explore
why
   other's believe differently. I perceive that some
TTers (such as
 yourself)
   are here not to have a meaningful discussion unless it
results in the
 other
   person adopting your beliefs. Basically, you want to
use TT as a
forum
 to
   convert people to Christianity as you understand
it...is that
correct?
   Assuming so, you probably don't feel a need to find areas of
common
 belief,
   but rather cut right to the chase and try to overwhelm your
opponent
 with
   their error of thought/belief as you perceive it. Have
I analyzed it
   correctly, Kevin?
   
I harbor no illusions about changing your
anti attitudes, Kevin.
 But
 I
   am curious as to why you are as you are (and why you believe
as you
 do),
 if
   that makes any sense

Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-11 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
Perry wrote:
In fact, in terms of proclaiming the
 gospel
 to
   the unsaved, Kevin is probably doing more on TT than any other poster.
 He
   steadfastly sticks to the message, not straying into the
 pseudo-intellectual
   realms of so many posts. Those things are often titillating and fun to
   ponder, but when it comes down to it, either you believe or you don't.
  
   Perry

BLAINE:  I don't.  Not the gospel of traditions, popular gain-sayings, etc., 
mixed with a few selected scriptures that Kevin teaches, at least.  :-) 


Please note: message attached


---BeginMessage---
Wasn't it Lance's buddy who left TT after cursing at me?

Jail? What are you talking about? Is canaDuH that messed up?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




I think that some time in the hoosegow (do they still call it that Terry?) would do Kevin a world of good.

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: May 11, 2005 15:58
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

And that would be your loss Lance ... Pray they will grace Ontario with a visit - jt

On Wed, 11 May 2005 15:50:06 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I wouldn't cross the street to see the 'cow suit' or, for that matter, Kevin.

From: Judy Taylor 
From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]I know Jesus. 
Kevin is no Jesus. Very bad illustration, Charles Perry Locke. (heretofor 'Chuckie' after the films)

The Jesus you know is not the same being Lance.
Yours is complacent and has a gospel that was never preached by Paul or any of the apostles.
Have youheard Kevin preaching on the streetor areyou judging what you have experienced and
giving your opinion re something you know nothing of? I thought the tactics of Chuck Spingola were
a little over the top - But have repented of that because -They are out thereI'll go to seeRuben in 
his cow suit if he ever comes to VA -Waving that underwear getsmore than a yawn :). jt



From: "Charles Perry Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lance, do you think Jesus was giving Christianity a "bad rap" when he overturned the moneylenders' tables in the temple? Instead, should he have quoted some 2nd century BC greek philospopher on the existential qualities of selling in the temple, then entered into meaningful dialog about what the philosopher really meant, whether or not it applies today, and then discussed how different interpretations of the scripture (OT) fit in with the philosophy? Lets be Real Christians, okay? From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] It amazes me that could could ask this of Dave, Perry! ,at least without a 'smiley'. Kevin is a jerk and, he comes accross as one (I probably do as well) on TT. I bet he does 'on the street' also. It is such
 that give christianity a bad rep. He probably sees himself as 'suffering for the cause of Christ' whereas it's just the 'jerk factor' in play.  Kevin:Speaking JtoJ we ought to keep this in mind.
 From: "Charles Perry Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Dave,   I can't understand why you do not hang on every word Kevin posts!He   backs up all of his biblical claims with scripture references, and not just   one or two, with several to many. He backs up what he claims about the   Mormon church with statements from your own non-prophets and leaders.He has   a passion for the Lord, and quite evidently has been called to usethis   passion, and his knowledge of the Word, to spread the gospel. I would expect   him to act no differently on TT than he does on the street. Justbecause he   does not fit your idea of what Truth Talk should be does not mean that his   exchanges are
 not meaningful. In fact, in terms of proclaiming the gospel to   the unsaved, Kevin is probably doing more on TT than any other poster. He   steadfastly sticks to the message, not straying into the pseudo-intellectual   realms of so many posts. Those things are often titillating and fun to   ponder, but when it comes down to it, either you believe or you don't. Perry From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org   Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] baptism   Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 23:46:44 -0700  
DAVEH: Nothing will make for easier discussions, IF one of theparties   does not want to have a meaningful exchange, Kevin. I view TT asbeing a   place where two or more people of contrasting opinions can explorewhy   other's believe differently. I perceive that some TTers (such as yourself)   are here not to have a meaningful discussion unless it results in the other   person adopting your beliefs. Basically, you want to use TT as aforum to   convert people to Christianity as you understand it...is thatcorrect?   Assuming so, you probably don't feel a need to find areas of common belief,   but rather cut right to the chase and try to overwhelm your opponent with 
  their error of thought/belief as you perceive it. Have I analy