[twitter-dev] Tweet button count still not updating.
When I use the code provided by this page http://twitter.com/goodies/tweetbutton and leave the URL to be 'the URL for the page ths button is on' set, the tweet count does not update. I know it does if you set the URL manually, which is fine, but I want to include this coding on a website or blog template so it inserts it on every page, and updates correctly. I have had to resort to using the tweet me product instead, but that's not what I want. It must be able to work, as many online newspapers I read have it and the count updates, and they have thousands of pages, so I'm sure they are not doing it manually for each and every page. Here is an example: http://www.theage.com.au/environment/japan-vents-radioactive-steam-from-plants-20110312-1brv1.html Clearly, I'm doing something wrong. Look forward to any advice. -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
[twitter-dev] where to download the latest Twitter4J build
Hi, http://twitter4j.org/ is shutdown, and meanwhile you can download the latest Twitter4J build from the github. https://github.com/yusuke/twitter4j/downloads The latest stable build is available at the maven central repository. http://repo1.maven.org/maven2/org/twitter4j/twitter4j-core/2.2.0/ This is because the government official instructed us to save electricity. Everything is under control in Tokyo. Twitter has been the most reliable bi-directional communication platform under this circumstance. Thanks Twitter! -- Yusuke Yamamoto yus...@mac.com this email is: [x] bloggable/tweetable [ ] private follow me on : http://twitter.com/yusukeyamamoto subscribe me at : http://samuraism.jp/ -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
[twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
The most telling change in the Terms of Service occurred in sentence #2 or paragraph #1 under section Rules of the Road. It used to read: We want to empower our ecosystem partners to build valuable BUSINESSES around the information flowing through Twitter. It now (since March 11, 2011) reads: We want to empower our ecosystem partners to build valuable TOOLS around the information flowing through Twitter. -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
The best I can locate for the Who to follow functionality from the Twitter API is under the User Resources and touching on GET users/suggestions and GET users/suggestions/:slug now how to come close to what Twitter places on their Who to follow page is beyond me. -Dustin This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 3:09 PM, Mike Champion mike.champ...@gmail.comwrote: Thanks for the clarification Ryan. Two questions: 1) Do you have a clear definition of what counts as a Twitter client? Is it any app/service that posts updates to Twitter, including apps like twitterfeed and Instapaper? Or is it only those apps that are primarily clients? I'm certainly familiar with the challenge of classifying apps ;) but wanted to know who will be covered by the ToS Section 1.5 and how you think about clients given Twitter's updated stance. 2) In section 1.5.A of the ToS it says: Your Client must use the Twitter API as the sole source for features that are substantially similar to functionality offered by Twitter. Some examples include trending topics, who to follow, and suggested user lists. Is the Who to follow functionality available via API from Twitter for clients that want to offer this? I wasn't aware that it been released as API but may have missed it on dev.twitter.com. Thanks, -mike On Mar 11, 3:47 pm, Eric Mill kproject...@gmail.com wrote: More specifically, developers ask us if they should build client apps that mimic or reproduce the mainstream Twitter consumer client experience. The answer is no. We need to ensure users can interact with Twitter the same way everywhere. I'm not sure you can say these things and simultaneously try to say you have a welcoming developer environment. All third party Twitter developers, no matter what they make, are now walking on eggshells, constantly at risk of offending Twitter's ideas of how users should interact with Twitter. You may feel you need this consistency, but you don't. You want it, and are willing to make tradeoffs to get it. I just hope you realize how big those tradeoffs are, and how chilling it is for Twitter to decide that only certain kinds of innovation on the Twitter API are welcome. -- Eric -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: web app with mobile clients
Do you mean: “I am making a mobile Twitter app that wraps around a locally-ran Web app. Is this possible?” — If that is the case I think it’s difficult at best. -ev On Mar 12, 2011, at 14:15, Bess wrote: Can't help much b/c I don't understand what you are trying to do. On Mar 11, 4:57 am, Eric Ertl e...@beapp.net wrote: Hi. I'm creating mobile clients (Android - iPhone) for a website which uses a twitter application configured as Web. Mobile applications require twitter applications configured as client, disconnecting the mobile apps users with the website. Is there a workaround? Does anyone dealt with this before? Is there a way to use the twitter application configured as Web from the mobile clients? Thanks in advance -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
[twitter-dev] Re: Do new ToS conditions apply to my app?
Another use case: what about semi-private, hobby clients that do not generate revenue? If my app is forbidden because it's a client, I'd like to maintain it for personal use (i.e., just a few user accounts). -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
[twitter-dev] Hebrew encoding problems
Hi all, I'm using the python-twitter API in order to get Tweets in hebrow. The API is working, I managed to get the Tweets, but instead of Hebrew I get Gibberish. I changed the encoding to 'windows-1255' in twitter.py, but it still doesn't work. what else can I do Thanks! -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Do new ToS conditions apply to my app?
Yeah, I wrote one in TCL that is non revenue generated as a personal hobby. I sure hope it don't get banned. I worked hard on it. On 3/12/2011 9:37 AM, Ellsass wrote: Another use case: what about semi-private, hobby clients that do not generate revenue? If my app is forbidden because it's a client, I'd like to maintain it for personal use (i.e., just a few user accounts). -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
[twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
Wow. Thanks for getting so many people interested in Twitter. Now get lost. This is appalling. -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
Interesting that neither Ryan or anyone else from Twitter has replied once to any of the questions here, (way to go on showing your interest in the developer community, Ryan), so I'll address this question to everyone else in the group. I don't read Ryan's message as demanding that apps are no longer allowed to send tweets on behalf of users. Is that supposed to be what he said? I think he is saying that apps should be more than *just* clients that let you read and post tweets. How to tell the difference, I have no idea, but I think in Ryan's mind there is a difference. I'll ask it as clearly as I can. Is it still allowed for an app to accept a tweet from a user and post it into their account? Is the /statuses/update api call still allowed in an app? Let's not wait for Twitter to respond, since they clearly don't want to any longer. Let's try and figure this out ourselves. What does everyone think? Can apps still send tweets? If yes, there is still a market for Twitter API developers. If not, the Twitter API is over. It is that simple. Maybe Ryan or anyone from Twitter can also find the time to answer this. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Duane Roelands duane.roela...@gmail.comwrote: Wow. Thanks for getting so many people interested in Twitter. Now get lost. This is appalling. -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Adam Green Twitter API Consultant and Trainer http://140dev.com @140dev -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] consistency and ecosystem opportunities
Hello, For a few days now I've read what people have said in reply to the update from Ryan. There are some crazy reactions and responses to what Ryan has said. In essence, the entire reaction is my opinion is completely overblown. Not in any sense what-so-ever have Twitter said that you can no longer post updates on behalf of users. Its ludicrous to suggest so. What they have have said (and in my opinion - quite clearly) is that it is better to direct your time and effort into a product that is not just a simple client and does more than just provide viewing and posting of tweets. There are so many half-arsed clients out there that do little more than just show and post tweets. If by chance a user was to use these low grade applications as their first experience of Twitter, it would probably put them off using it in the long term. I do fully believe that is why they have released their own branded clients for iOS, Macs and other devices. It provides a consistent experience for the end-users. The other thing that people seem to completely overlook is that Twitter are providing a freely accessible API at no charge to developers. It pains me to see so many developers standing the moral high ground. If you were paying for access to a service or product and it changes, you have a very valid reason to complain. To complain about a service provided free of charge for you to use at the end of the day frustrates me to no end. No single developer has a god given right to have access to the API, perhaps that should be remembered. Scott. On 13 Mar 2011, at 00:16, Adam Green wrote: Interesting that neither Ryan or anyone else from Twitter has replied once to any of the questions here, (way to go on showing your interest in the developer community, Ryan), so I'll address this question to everyone else in the group. I don't read Ryan's message as demanding that apps are no longer allowed to send tweets on behalf of users. Is that supposed to be what he said? I think he is saying that apps should be more than *just* clients that let you read and post tweets. How to tell the difference, I have no idea, but I think in Ryan's mind there is a difference. I'll ask it as clearly as I can. Is it still allowed for an app to accept a tweet from a user and post it into their account? Is the /statuses/update api call still allowed in an app? Let's not wait for Twitter to respond, since they clearly don't want to any longer. Let's try and figure this out ourselves. What does everyone think? Can apps still send tweets? If yes, there is still a market for Twitter API developers. If not, the Twitter API is over. It is that simple. Maybe Ryan or anyone from Twitter can also find the time to answer this. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Duane Roelands duane.roela...@gmail.com wrote: Wow. Thanks for getting so many people interested in Twitter. Now get lost. This is appalling. -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Adam Green Twitter API Consultant and Trainer http://140dev.com @140dev -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
[twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
I was hoping that Ryan was just a few weeks early for his April Fools' post. Don't build clients? It sounds like a bad joke. I wrote a letter to Ryan on my blog in response to this post: http://www.voiceoftech.com/swhitley/index.php/2011/03/a-letter-to-ryan-sarver/ I know you guys can't be serious about this. Stage a mutiny if you have to, but don't let this boneheaded decision stand. -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
[twitter-dev] Re: Do new ToS conditions apply to my app?
Out of interest, what did you get rejected by Apple for? Was it anything to do with Twitter? Or was it all objectiveC stuff? I too have a Twitter client waiting in the wings for submission. Not long to go now. I'm just going to launch it and see what happens. if Twitter 'rejects'/disables it (considering they actually hold the 'keys' to whether the app is allowed to communicate - thanks oAuth) then I'll be making a big fuss about it ;) Good luck! K On Mar 11, 10:27 pm, howardk howar...@gmail.com wrote: I've just read the new Terms of Service referenced in the announcement consistency and ecosystem opportunities. It's unclear to me if those terms apply to an app I've just finished. I've developed a very simple iPad app that allows the user to maintain a list of feeds and stream any of those timelines banner-wise across the screen on demand. It's useful if you want to quickly check the most recent tweets from a particular source and also serves as a vehicle to show off some interesting and creative use of 3D typography on the iPad to display the content. There's almost no interface: Tweet content is shown exactly as-is, with only the addition of a username to identify the feed and an elapsed-time-since-publication placard. I submitted this app to the app store in December and was rejected. I've rewritten the app in response to Apple concerns and am one (1) day away from resubmitting to the app store. I've got +/- five months of effort into this project and will be devastated if I'm disallowed from publishing at this late date. Who can I talk to re determining whether what I've done falls under the umbrella of applications that are now prohibited by the new ToS? Best, Howard Katz -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
Perhaps Ryan was urging folks to spend their time and money on creating innovative products and not on a new client that would probably not get a large user base due to the official clients marketshare? On 13 Mar 2011, at 00:29, Shannon Whitley wrote: I was hoping that Ryan was just a few weeks early for his April Fools' post. Don't build clients? It sounds like a bad joke. I wrote a letter to Ryan on my blog in response to this post: http://www.voiceoftech.com/swhitley/index.php/2011/03/a-letter-to-ryan-sarver/ I know you guys can't be serious about this. Stage a mutiny if you have to, but don't let this boneheaded decision stand. -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Do new ToS conditions apply to my app?
For those following this thread, I've just posted on a similar one. I don't think any fear of having your application shut down will come to fruition. I feel that I could safely say that only applications that generate spam like noise will be removed. I really don't see non-spam like applications being shutdown. Every application has a purpose to either one or a set of users, that is why it was developed in the first place. I think what Ryan has said is firing a shot against the bow of the spam generating applications - that their type of activity is not wanted on the platform. So in short, your personal projects, applications and tools should all be fine - just don't generate spam with them. On 13 Mar 2011, at 00:31, kosso wrote: Out of interest, what did you get rejected by Apple for? Was it anything to do with Twitter? Or was it all objectiveC stuff? I too have a Twitter client waiting in the wings for submission. Not long to go now. I'm just going to launch it and see what happens. if Twitter 'rejects'/disables it (considering they actually hold the 'keys' to whether the app is allowed to communicate - thanks oAuth) then I'll be making a big fuss about it ;) Good luck! K On Mar 11, 10:27 pm, howardk howar...@gmail.com wrote: I've just read the new Terms of Service referenced in the announcement consistency and ecosystem opportunities. It's unclear to me if those terms apply to an app I've just finished. I've developed a very simple iPad app that allows the user to maintain a list of feeds and stream any of those timelines banner-wise across the screen on demand. It's useful if you want to quickly check the most recent tweets from a particular source and also serves as a vehicle to show off some interesting and creative use of 3D typography on the iPad to display the content. There's almost no interface: Tweet content is shown exactly as-is, with only the addition of a username to identify the feed and an elapsed-time-since-publication placard. I submitted this app to the app store in December and was rejected. I've rewritten the app in response to Apple concerns and am one (1) day away from resubmitting to the app store. I've got +/- five months of effort into this project and will be devastated if I'm disallowed from publishing at this late date. Who can I talk to re determining whether what I've done falls under the umbrella of applications that are now prohibited by the new ToS? Best, Howard Katz -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] consistency and ecosystem opportunities
I agree, Scott. Ryan didn't say you can't post tweets, but everyone heard that. Every tech blog repeated it. Ryan should take a minute and explain that it isn't true. That much would help a lot. He led by saying don't build a client. That is where people stopped reading. I don't think he meant to tell people that apps can't tweet, but he did give that impression. Now he should come back and say, Sorry guys. I gave you the wrong impression. Here are specifically the things you can still do. Don't just point to companies with $10M in VC funds each and say No problem, just be like them. These are API developers. Say it in terms of the API. Exactly which API calls are still allowed. If he says statuses/update is still allowed, then that answers the question. There is no ambiguity. As for Twitter being free. Yes. The API is, but denying the value that products like Tweetdeck gave Twitter *for free* is denying the reality of how Twitter got to where it is. It is called a partnership. They give us raw materials, we add value to them. We all benefit. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 7:28 PM, Scott Wilcox sc...@dor.ky wrote: Hello, For a few days now I've read what people have said in reply to the update from Ryan. There are some crazy reactions and responses to what Ryan has said. In essence, the entire reaction is my opinion is completely overblown. Not in any sense what-so-ever have Twitter said that you can no longer post updates on behalf of users. Its ludicrous to suggest so. What they have have said (and in my opinion - quite clearly) is that it is better to direct your time and effort into a product that is not just a simple client and does more than just provide viewing and posting of tweets. There are so many half-arsed clients out there that do little more than just show and post tweets. If by chance a user was to use these low grade applications as their first experience of Twitter, it would probably put them off using it in the long term. I do fully believe that is why they have released their own branded clients for iOS, Macs and other devices. It provides a consistent experience for the end-users. The other thing that people seem to completely overlook is that Twitter are providing a freely accessible API at no charge to developers. It pains me to see so many developers standing the moral high ground. If you were paying for access to a service or product and it changes, you have a very valid reason to complain. To complain about a service provided free of charge for you to use at the end of the day frustrates me to no end. No single developer has a god given right to have access to the API, perhaps that should be remembered. Scott. On 13 Mar 2011, at 00:16, Adam Green wrote: Interesting that neither Ryan or anyone else from Twitter has replied once to any of the questions here, (way to go on showing your interest in the developer community, Ryan), so I'll address this question to everyone else in the group. I don't read Ryan's message as demanding that apps are no longer allowed to send tweets on behalf of users. Is that supposed to be what he said? I think he is saying that apps should be more than *just* clients that let you read and post tweets. How to tell the difference, I have no idea, but I think in Ryan's mind there is a difference. I'll ask it as clearly as I can. Is it still allowed for an app to accept a tweet from a user and post it into their account? Is the /statuses/update api call still allowed in an app? Let's not wait for Twitter to respond, since they clearly don't want to any longer. Let's try and figure this out ourselves. What does everyone think? Can apps still send tweets? If yes, there is still a market for Twitter API developers. If not, the Twitter API is over. It is that simple. Maybe Ryan or anyone from Twitter can also find the time to answer this. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Duane Roelands duane.roela...@gmail.comwrote: Wow. Thanks for getting so many people interested in Twitter. Now get lost. This is appalling. -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Adam Green Twitter API Consultant and Trainer http://140dev.com @140dev -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker:
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
Mike, a client is one that recreates the twitter experience, or in your words the primary experience. So I don't consider Instagram or Foursquare in that group. It's apps that render a user their timeline. Apps that post into Twitter are great and explicitly called out at the bottom of the email. Hope that helps clarify. Best, Ryan -- Ryan Sarver @rsarver http://twitter.com/rsarver On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 9:09 PM, Mike Champion mike.champ...@gmail.comwrote: Thanks for the clarification Ryan. Two questions: 1) Do you have a clear definition of what counts as a Twitter client? Is it any app/service that posts updates to Twitter, including apps like twitterfeed and Instapaper? Or is it only those apps that are primarily clients? I'm certainly familiar with the challenge of classifying apps ;) but wanted to know who will be covered by the ToS Section 1.5 and how you think about clients given Twitter's updated stance. 2) In section 1.5.A of the ToS it says: Your Client must use the Twitter API as the sole source for features that are substantially similar to functionality offered by Twitter. Some examples include trending topics, who to follow, and suggested user lists. Is the Who to follow functionality available via API from Twitter for clients that want to offer this? I wasn't aware that it been released as API but may have missed it on dev.twitter.com. Thanks, -mike On Mar 11, 3:47 pm, Eric Mill kproject...@gmail.com wrote: More specifically, developers ask us if they should build client apps that mimic or reproduce the mainstream Twitter consumer client experience. The answer is no. We need to ensure users can interact with Twitter the same way everywhere. I'm not sure you can say these things and simultaneously try to say you have a welcoming developer environment. All third party Twitter developers, no matter what they make, are now walking on eggshells, constantly at risk of offending Twitter's ideas of how users should interact with Twitter. You may feel you need this consistency, but you don't. You want it, and are willing to make tradeoffs to get it. I just hope you realize how big those tradeoffs are, and how chilling it is for Twitter to decide that only certain kinds of innovation on the Twitter API are welcome. -- Eric -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
*a new client that would probably not get a large user base due to the official clients marketshare* That would sort itself out without the need for Twitter to change their TOS -- the app would simply remain unpopular and eventually whither away. The fact that Twitter is moving toward disallowing clients indicates they see clients as a threat, otherwise they wouldn't have bothered with this. -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
David, we are specifically talking about consumer clients. HootSuite and Seesmic are focused on a more enterprise or marketer audience as I called out at the bottom of the email. Best, Ryan -- Ryan Sarver @rsarver http://twitter.com/rsarver On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 12:32 AM, David W d_wy...@yahoo.com wrote: It seems a little confusing that you're basically saying don't build any more Twitter clients and then call out the likes of Hoot Suite and Seesmic as being examples of what people should be doing. At heart they're just Twitter clients (that we shouldn't build any more?) They also appear to be conflict with section 5e of the Ts Cs: You may not use Twitter Content or other data collected from end users of your Client to create or maintain a separate status update or social network database or service. I guess what confuses me most, is the motivation behind this announcement? I mean sure, no-one wants apps out there that take advantage of end users and give them a rough ride, but as you said yourself 90% of users aren't getting that experience and as someone else said; good apps will always bubble to the top. I think it's incredibly disappointing to hear Twitter tell dev's not to create clients any more. No developer sets out to create a bad Twitter client. They set out to improve the Twitter experience, because they believe they can and generally because they love Twitter. Arguably Twitter wouldn't be where it is today if it weren't for those that did exactly that. Unless we've all misunderstood what's been said here, then I'd question investing any time or money into the focusing on what are, today, areas outside the mainstream consumer client experience. Sure go ahead and innovate in the areas Twitter tells you you're allowed to... for now. What happens when Twitter sees the new innovation you've just discovered is really popular? Do we get another announcement telling dev's not to develop that stuff any more? Like I say, I hope we've all misunderstood the message here (I really do). I've no beef with the Ts Cs. But please don't tell people to stop developing clients that people work hard on and that users love. On Mar 11, 8:18 pm, Ryan Sarver rsar...@twitter.com wrote: Hey all, I’d like to give you an update about the state of the Twitter Platform and hopefully provide some much requested guidance. Since this time last year, Twitter use has skyrocketed. We’ve grown from 48 million to 140 million tweets a day and we’re registering new accounts at an all-time record. This massive base of users, publishers, and businesses is a giant playground for developers to build their own businesses on, and this means the opportunity has grown for everyone. With more people joining Twitter and accessing the service in multiple ways, a consistent user experience is more crucial than ever. As we talked about last April, this was our motivation for buying Tweetie and developing our own official iPhone app. It is the reason why we have developed official apps for the Mac, iPad, Android and Windows Phone, and worked with RIM on their Twitter for Blackberry app. As a result, the top five ways that people access Twitter are official Twitter apps. Still, our user research shows that consumers continue to be confused by the different ways that a fractured landscape of third-party Twitter clients display tweets and let users interact with core Twitter functions. For example, people get confused by websites or clients that display tweets in a way that doesn’t follow our design guidelines, or when services put their own verbs on tweets instead of the ones used on Twitter. Similarly, a number of third-party consumer clients use their own versions of suggested users, trends, and other data streams, confusing users in our network even more. Users should be able to view, retweet, and reply to @nytimes’ tweets the same way; see the same profile information about @whitehouse; and be able to join in the discussion around the same trending topics as everyone else across Twitter. *A Consistent User Experience* Twitter is a network, and its network effects are driven by users seeing and contributing to the network’s conversations. We need to ensure users can interact with Twitter the same way everywhere. Specifically: - *The mainstream consumer client experience*. Twitter will provide the primary mainstream consumer client experience on phones, computers, and other devices by which millions of people access Twitter content (tweets, trends, profiles, etc.), and send tweets. If there are too many ways to use Twitter that are inconsistent with one another, we risk diffusing the user experience. In addition, a number of client applications have repeatedly violated Twitter’s Terms of Service, including our user privacy policy. This demonstrates the risks associated with
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
Thanks, Ryan. That helps a lot, and we should all repeat that to anyone who asks or says otherwise. So we have one answer. Tweeting in apps is still good. Now, can you explain what you mean by It's apps that render a user their timeline. Please answer this. Is displaying a list of tweets forbidden or allowed? If yes, is displaying a list of tweets *and* also providing functionality that lets the user post their own tweets allowed in the same app? That is really all we need to know. I won't ask you to explain why this isn't a client. :) On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 7:47 PM, Ryan Sarver rsar...@twitter.com wrote: Mike, a client is one that recreates the twitter experience, or in your words the primary experience. So I don't consider Instagram or Foursquare in that group. It's apps that render a user their timeline. Apps that post into Twitter are great and explicitly called out at the bottom of the email. Hope that helps clarify. Best, Ryan -- Ryan Sarver @rsarver http://twitter.com/rsarver On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 9:09 PM, Mike Champion mike.champ...@gmail.comwrote: Thanks for the clarification Ryan. Two questions: 1) Do you have a clear definition of what counts as a Twitter client? Is it any app/service that posts updates to Twitter, including apps like twitterfeed and Instapaper? Or is it only those apps that are primarily clients? I'm certainly familiar with the challenge of classifying apps ;) but wanted to know who will be covered by the ToS Section 1.5 and how you think about clients given Twitter's updated stance. 2) In section 1.5.A of the ToS it says: Your Client must use the Twitter API as the sole source for features that are substantially similar to functionality offered by Twitter. Some examples include trending topics, who to follow, and suggested user lists. Is the Who to follow functionality available via API from Twitter for clients that want to offer this? I wasn't aware that it been released as API but may have missed it on dev.twitter.com. Thanks, -mike On Mar 11, 3:47 pm, Eric Mill kproject...@gmail.com wrote: More specifically, developers ask us if they should build client apps that mimic or reproduce the mainstream Twitter consumer client experience. The answer is no. We need to ensure users can interact with Twitter the same way everywhere. I'm not sure you can say these things and simultaneously try to say you have a welcoming developer environment. All third party Twitter developers, no matter what they make, are now walking on eggshells, constantly at risk of offending Twitter's ideas of how users should interact with Twitter. You may feel you need this consistency, but you don't. You want it, and are willing to make tradeoffs to get it. I just hope you realize how big those tradeoffs are, and how chilling it is for Twitter to decide that only certain kinds of innovation on the Twitter API are welcome. -- Eric -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Adam Green Twitter API Consultant and Trainer http://140dev.com @140dev -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] consistency and ecosystem opportunities
Adam, that is a totally incorrect characterization of the companies I listed in the email. A ton of those companies -- CoTweet, Klout, HootSuite, Socialflow -- sprung out of the ecosystem and were started on nights and weekends with no funding. Of course they have gotten some funding now as investors see them as great potential businesses. Of course statuses/update is still allowed. As is statuses/user_timeline. We've added more policies and given guidance that we don't think there is a business in building consumer clients, but none of the APIs have changed. -- Ryan Sarver @rsarver http://twitter.com/rsarver On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 12:40 AM, Adam Green 140...@gmail.com wrote: I agree, Scott. Ryan didn't say you can't post tweets, but everyone heard that. Every tech blog repeated it. Ryan should take a minute and explain that it isn't true. That much would help a lot. He led by saying don't build a client. That is where people stopped reading. I don't think he meant to tell people that apps can't tweet, but he did give that impression. Now he should come back and say, Sorry guys. I gave you the wrong impression. Here are specifically the things you can still do. Don't just point to companies with $10M in VC funds each and say No problem, just be like them. These are API developers. Say it in terms of the API. Exactly which API calls are still allowed. If he says statuses/update is still allowed, then that answers the question. There is no ambiguity. As for Twitter being free. Yes. The API is, but denying the value that products like Tweetdeck gave Twitter *for free* is denying the reality of how Twitter got to where it is. It is called a partnership. They give us raw materials, we add value to them. We all benefit. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 7:28 PM, Scott Wilcox sc...@dor.ky wrote: Hello, For a few days now I've read what people have said in reply to the update from Ryan. There are some crazy reactions and responses to what Ryan has said. In essence, the entire reaction is my opinion is completely overblown. Not in any sense what-so-ever have Twitter said that you can no longer post updates on behalf of users. Its ludicrous to suggest so. What they have have said (and in my opinion - quite clearly) is that it is better to direct your time and effort into a product that is not just a simple client and does more than just provide viewing and posting of tweets. There are so many half-arsed clients out there that do little more than just show and post tweets. If by chance a user was to use these low grade applications as their first experience of Twitter, it would probably put them off using it in the long term. I do fully believe that is why they have released their own branded clients for iOS, Macs and other devices. It provides a consistent experience for the end-users. The other thing that people seem to completely overlook is that Twitter are providing a freely accessible API at no charge to developers. It pains me to see so many developers standing the moral high ground. If you were paying for access to a service or product and it changes, you have a very valid reason to complain. To complain about a service provided free of charge for you to use at the end of the day frustrates me to no end. No single developer has a god given right to have access to the API, perhaps that should be remembered. Scott. On 13 Mar 2011, at 00:16, Adam Green wrote: Interesting that neither Ryan or anyone else from Twitter has replied once to any of the questions here, (way to go on showing your interest in the developer community, Ryan), so I'll address this question to everyone else in the group. I don't read Ryan's message as demanding that apps are no longer allowed to send tweets on behalf of users. Is that supposed to be what he said? I think he is saying that apps should be more than *just* clients that let you read and post tweets. How to tell the difference, I have no idea, but I think in Ryan's mind there is a difference. I'll ask it as clearly as I can. Is it still allowed for an app to accept a tweet from a user and post it into their account? Is the /statuses/update api call still allowed in an app? Let's not wait for Twitter to respond, since they clearly don't want to any longer. Let's try and figure this out ourselves. What does everyone think? Can apps still send tweets? If yes, there is still a market for Twitter API developers. If not, the Twitter API is over. It is that simple. Maybe Ryan or anyone from Twitter can also find the time to answer this. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Duane Roelands duane.roela...@gmail.com wrote: Wow. Thanks for getting so many people interested in Twitter. Now get lost. This is appalling. -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker:
Re: [twitter-dev] consistency and ecosystem opportunities
Scott, I don't think it's ludicrous to think that Twitter may eventually pull the plug on, say, statuses/home_timeline, effectively eliminating clients. If Twitter's concern is ad revenue, all they'd need to do is add a clause to their TOS specifying that all third-party clients must show in-line ads or the quickbar or whatever else Twitter uses to generate revenue. Then the issue is very clear for developers -- either integrate Twitter's revenue-producing content into your client, or don't make a client at all. The fact that they seem to be going about this a different way, and being a bit unclear as to what might happen to a client-only app, leaves open the possibility that they simply want to close down the market so the only access to one's timeline is via a first-party app. Scott Wilcox wrote: Hello, For a few days now I've read what people have said in reply to the update from Ryan. There are some crazy reactions and responses to what Ryan has said. In essence, the entire reaction is my opinion is completely overblown. Not in any sense what-so-ever have Twitter said that you can no longer post updates on behalf of users. Its ludicrous to suggest so. What they have have said (and in my opinion - quite clearly) is that it is better to direct your time and effort into a product that is not just a simple client and does more than just provide viewing and posting of tweets. There are so many half-arsed clients out there that do little more than just show and post tweets. If by chance a user was to use these low grade applications as their first experience of Twitter, it would probably put them off using it in the long term. I do fully believe that is why they have released their own branded clients for iOS, Macs and other devices. It provides a consistent experience for the end-users. The other thing that people seem to completely overlook is that Twitter are providing a freely accessible API at no charge to developers. It pains me to see so many developers standing the moral high ground. If you were paying for access to a service or product and it changes, you have a very valid reason to complain. To complain about a service provided free of charge for you to use at the end of the day frustrates me to no end. No single developer has a god given right to have access to the API, perhaps that should be remembered. Scott. On 13 Mar 2011, at 00:16, Adam Green wrote: Interesting that neither Ryan or anyone else from Twitter has replied once to any of the questions here, (way to go on showing your interest in the developer community, Ryan), so I'll address this question to everyone else in the group. I don't read Ryan's message as demanding that apps are no longer allowed to send tweets on behalf of users. Is that supposed to be what he said? I think he is saying that apps should be more than *just* clients that let you read and post tweets. How to tell the difference, I have no idea, but I think in Ryan's mind there is a difference. I'll ask it as clearly as I can. Is it still allowed for an app to accept a tweet from a user and post it into their account? Is the /statuses/update api call still allowed in an app? Let's not wait for Twitter to respond, since they clearly don't want to any longer. Let's try and figure this out ourselves. What does everyone think? Can apps still send tweets? If yes, there is still a market for Twitter API developers. If not, the Twitter API is over. It is that simple. Maybe Ryan or anyone from Twitter can also find the time to answer this. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Duane Roelands duane.roela...@gmail.com wrote: Wow. Thanks for getting so many people interested in Twitter. Now get lost. This is appalling. -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Adam Green Twitter API Consultant and Trainer http://140dev.com @140dev -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] consistency and ecosystem opportunities
Highly doubtful that they would do that and they certainly haven't now. Sent from my iPhone On 13 Mar 2011, at 01:00, Ellsass cpa...@gmail.com wrote: Scott, I don't think it's ludicrous to think that Twitter may eventually pull the plug on, say, statuses/home_timeline, effectively eliminating clients. If Twitter's concern is ad revenue, all they'd need to do is add a clause to their TOS specifying that all third-party clients must show in-line ads or the quickbar or whatever else Twitter uses to generate revenue. Then the issue is very clear for developers -- either integrate Twitter's revenue-producing content into your client, or don't make a client at all. The fact that they seem to be going about this a different way, and being a bit unclear as to what might happen to a client-only app, leaves open the possibility that they simply want to close down the market so the only access to one's timeline is via a first-party app. Scott Wilcox wrote: Hello, For a few days now I've read what people have said in reply to the update from Ryan. There are some crazy reactions and responses to what Ryan has said. In essence, the entire reaction is my opinion is completely overblown. Not in any sense what-so-ever have Twitter said that you can no longer post updates on behalf of users. Its ludicrous to suggest so. What they have have said (and in my opinion - quite clearly) is that it is better to direct your time and effort into a product that is not just a simple client and does more than just provide viewing and posting of tweets. There are so many half-arsed clients out there that do little more than just show and post tweets. If by chance a user was to use these low grade applications as their first experience of Twitter, it would probably put them off using it in the long term. I do fully believe that is why they have released their own branded clients for iOS, Macs and other devices. It provides a consistent experience for the end-users. The other thing that people seem to completely overlook is that Twitter are providing a freely accessible API at no charge to developers. It pains me to see so many developers standing the moral high ground. If you were paying for access to a service or product and it changes, you have a very valid reason to complain. To complain about a service provided free of charge for you to use at the end of the day frustrates me to no end. No single developer has a god given right to have access to the API, perhaps that should be remembered. Scott. On 13 Mar 2011, at 00:16, Adam Green wrote: Interesting that neither Ryan or anyone else from Twitter has replied once to any of the questions here, (way to go on showing your interest in the developer community, Ryan), so I'll address this question to everyone else in the group. I don't read Ryan's message as demanding that apps are no longer allowed to send tweets on behalf of users. Is that supposed to be what he said? I think he is saying that apps should be more than *just* clients that let you read and post tweets. How to tell the difference, I have no idea, but I think in Ryan's mind there is a difference. I'll ask it as clearly as I can. Is it still allowed for an app to accept a tweet from a user and post it into their account? Is the /statuses/update api call still allowed in an app? Let's not wait for Twitter to respond, since they clearly don't want to any longer. Let's try and figure this out ourselves. What does everyone think? Can apps still send tweets? If yes, there is still a market for Twitter API developers. If not, the Twitter API is over. It is that simple. Maybe Ryan or anyone from Twitter can also find the time to answer this. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Duane Roelands duane.roela...@gmail.com wrote: Wow. Thanks for getting so many people interested in Twitter. Now get lost. This is appalling. -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Adam Green Twitter API Consultant and Trainer http://140dev.com @140dev -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group:
Re: [twitter-dev] consistency and ecosystem opportunities
They should insert ads into the stream, and say we can't remove them. That would be great. I have no problem with that, providing they treat us with respect. Give us an appeal process with warning if they don't like what we build. I have no problem with them wanting to make money from things I build. I want to make money from things they give me. I want everyone to make money. Developers are not the problem. They are the solution. I can't help thinking there are people at high levels who sit around saying How do we shake off these damned parasites? If I'm wrong, maybe we can see a message from management that says Here is a new initiative or dev program that will help you make money with the API. We love what you guys do so much we want to reward you. We want you to be part of a partnership. That would be refreshing. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 7:59 PM, Ellsass cpa...@gmail.com wrote: Scott, I don't think it's ludicrous to think that Twitter may eventually pull the plug on, say, statuses/home_timeline, effectively eliminating clients. If Twitter's concern is ad revenue, all they'd need to do is add a clause to their TOS specifying that all third-party clients must show in-line ads or the quickbar or whatever else Twitter uses to generate revenue. Then the issue is very clear for developers -- either integrate Twitter's revenue-producing content into your client, or don't make a client at all. The fact that they seem to be going about this a different way, and being a bit unclear as to what might happen to a client-only app, leaves open the possibility that they simply want to close down the market so the only access to one's timeline is via a first-party app. Scott Wilcox wrote: Hello, For a few days now I've read what people have said in reply to the update from Ryan. There are some crazy reactions and responses to what Ryan has said. In essence, the entire reaction is my opinion is completely overblown. Not in any sense what-so-ever have Twitter said that you can no longer post updates on behalf of users. Its ludicrous to suggest so. What they have have said (and in my opinion - quite clearly) is that it is better to direct your time and effort into a product that is not just a simple client and does more than just provide viewing and posting of tweets. There are so many half-arsed clients out there that do little more than just show and post tweets. If by chance a user was to use these low grade applications as their first experience of Twitter, it would probably put them off using it in the long term. I do fully believe that is why they have released their own branded clients for iOS, Macs and other devices. It provides a consistent experience for the end-users. The other thing that people seem to completely overlook is that Twitter are providing a freely accessible API at no charge to developers. It pains me to see so many developers standing the moral high ground. If you were paying for access to a service or product and it changes, you have a very valid reason to complain. To complain about a service provided free of charge for you to use at the end of the day frustrates me to no end. No single developer has a god given right to have access to the API, perhaps that should be remembered. Scott. On 13 Mar 2011, at 00:16, Adam Green wrote: Interesting that neither Ryan or anyone else from Twitter has replied once to any of the questions here, (way to go on showing your interest in the developer community, Ryan), so I'll address this question to everyone else in the group. I don't read Ryan's message as demanding that apps are no longer allowed to send tweets on behalf of users. Is that supposed to be what he said? I think he is saying that apps should be more than *just* clients that let you read and post tweets. How to tell the difference, I have no idea, but I think in Ryan's mind there is a difference. I'll ask it as clearly as I can. Is it still allowed for an app to accept a tweet from a user and post it into their account? Is the /statuses/update api call still allowed in an app? Let's not wait for Twitter to respond, since they clearly don't want to any longer. Let's try and figure this out ourselves. What does everyone think? Can apps still send tweets? If yes, there is still a market for Twitter API developers. If not, the Twitter API is over. It is that simple. Maybe Ryan or anyone from Twitter can also find the time to answer this. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Duane Roelands duane.roela...@gmail.com wrote: Wow. Thanks for getting so many people interested in Twitter. Now get lost. This is appalling. -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
Ryan, you said in another post in this thread that statuses/user_timeline is still allowed. I'm curious how that jives with your second sentence here, It's apps that render a user their timeline. What will happen if an app falls into a gray area of being a client or consumer client? Will we simply have our Oauth tokens revoked, or will there be some sort of review process? Will their be a deadline for current client-only apps to find a way to fit the new TOS? -Craig On 12 March 2011 19:47, Ryan Sarver rsar...@twitter.com wrote: Mike, a client is one that recreates the twitter experience, or in your words the primary experience. So I don't consider Instagram or Foursquare in that group. It's apps that render a user their timeline. Apps that post into Twitter are great and explicitly called out at the bottom of the email. Hope that helps clarify. Best, Ryan -- Ryan Sarver @rsarver http://twitter.com/rsarver On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 9:09 PM, Mike Champion mike.champ...@gmail.comwrote: Thanks for the clarification Ryan. Two questions: 1) Do you have a clear definition of what counts as a Twitter client? Is it any app/service that posts updates to Twitter, including apps like twitterfeed and Instapaper? Or is it only those apps that are primarily clients? I'm certainly familiar with the challenge of classifying apps ;) but wanted to know who will be covered by the ToS Section 1.5 and how you think about clients given Twitter's updated stance. 2) In section 1.5.A of the ToS it says: Your Client must use the Twitter API as the sole source for features that are substantially similar to functionality offered by Twitter. Some examples include trending topics, who to follow, and suggested user lists. Is the Who to follow functionality available via API from Twitter for clients that want to offer this? I wasn't aware that it been released as API but may have missed it on dev.twitter.com. Thanks, -mike On Mar 11, 3:47 pm, Eric Mill kproject...@gmail.com wrote: More specifically, developers ask us if they should build client apps that mimic or reproduce the mainstream Twitter consumer client experience. The answer is no. We need to ensure users can interact with Twitter the same way everywhere. I'm not sure you can say these things and simultaneously try to say you have a welcoming developer environment. All third party Twitter developers, no matter what they make, are now walking on eggshells, constantly at risk of offending Twitter's ideas of how users should interact with Twitter. You may feel you need this consistency, but you don't. You want it, and are willing to make tradeoffs to get it. I just hope you realize how big those tradeoffs are, and how chilling it is for Twitter to decide that only certain kinds of innovation on the Twitter API are welcome. -- Eric -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
[twitter-dev] Re: Twitter Search bug: confusing Swedish place Åre with English verb are
Any response on this from twitter? Sent from my iPhone On Mar 3, 2011, at 1:46 PM, Jeffrey Greenberg jeffreygreenb...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, We have a customer who is trying to find tweets with the Swedish word Åre, which is a place, and is getting tweets with the English word are in it. I've reproduced this on search.twitter.com ... If the search is Åre -are it return nothing, because it seems that search.twitter.com sees them as the same word. Can this get addressed? And/or is there a workaround (not involving streams)? (fyi: Geographic/location related search will not work in this situation). Thanks, jeffrey greenberg www.tweettronics.com -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: users/lookup returns duplicates, missing records for valid users
hi all. we're actively investigating this issue. On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 8:13 PM, gcoats84 gary.co...@gmail.com wrote: I am also running into these issues with users/lookup.json. The ids I have issues with are totally random. Sometimes the duplicates are back to back, other times they are separated by a few records. example screen names that are all returned duplicates: yaneeduh, JDH1127, MelxWeasley, ealderson, jennypenk, shubbs1, zx48k, Krausekid211, MissKellieBelly On Mar 9, 4:49 am, nischalshetty nischalshett...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I too am getting duplicate results and some of the valid ids are not beings returned. If it helps, these ids would replicate all the issues faced : 11825, 248874232, 28296091, 251642658, 257793455, 225992183, 85168850, 92509004, 113697273, 99673641, 99253238, 98032551, 91619850, 47528631, 52652119, 14941300, 26403984, 33322905, 32162070, 24612782, 25218999, 20829096, 19491208, 18549369, 15074733, 13757662, 68889828 -N On Mar 2, 2:02 pm, David JULIEN da...@semiocast.com wrote: I have noticed this strange behaviour too (duplicated results and unknown users). For instance, yesterday, when I tried to lookup for user 44537294 (with two different accounts), I received during many hours information about user 243784138, before receiving expected result (around 17/18h UTC). David -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Raffi Krikorian Twitter, Application Services http://twitter.com/raffi -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
in reading your blog post, i think you're misunderstanding what @*rsarver*wrote. the API is open -- i personally love seeing all the innovation around getting content into twitter (/1/status/update). there is a cafe in france who's oven tweets whenever its done baking. that uses the platform to get content in there. there was a NYU project that enabled your plants to tweet when they needed water. that uses the platform to get content into twitter. then there are people who match tweets to context. seeing twitter in action with a television show, or a newspaper article, or a conference, or a band -- that's how people really understand and get twitter. they see it through the lens of what's happening in the world. what @*rsarver* said, effectively, was building a business around *simply*rendering /1/statuses/home_timeline was probably-not-the-best-thing-to-do. please go still innovate. just don't bet money on simply making an API call to grabbing a user's home_timeline and rendering it. that's thinking too small, and @*rsarver* is telling you that. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Shannon Whitley shannon.whit...@gmail.comwrote: I was hoping that Ryan was just a few weeks early for his April Fools' post. Don't build clients? It sounds like a bad joke. I wrote a letter to Ryan on my blog in response to this post: http://www.voiceoftech.com/swhitley/index.php/2011/03/a-letter-to-ryan-sarver/ I know you guys can't be serious about this. Stage a mutiny if you have to, but don't let this boneheaded decision stand. -- Raffi Krikorian Twitter, Application Services http://twitter.com/raffi -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
Raffi, do you really think a statement that insisted that all developers make sure that every single app presents tweets in exactly the same way, and that reminded those developers that Twitter shuts down hundreds of apps a day that fail to conform to the required presentation style, and that pointed to a TOS that went from 30 days warning to instant shutdown without any warning, would be read as Twitter urging everyone to innovate? On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 9:39 PM, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: in reading your blog post, i think you're misunderstanding what @*rsarver*wrote. the API is open -- i personally love seeing all the innovation around getting content into twitter (/1/status/update). there is a cafe in france who's oven tweets whenever its done baking. that uses the platform to get content in there. there was a NYU project that enabled your plants to tweet when they needed water. that uses the platform to get content into twitter. then there are people who match tweets to context. seeing twitter in action with a television show, or a newspaper article, or a conference, or a band -- that's how people really understand and get twitter. they see it through the lens of what's happening in the world. what @*rsarver* said, effectively, was building a business around *simply*rendering /1/statuses/home_timeline was probably-not-the-best-thing-to-do. please go still innovate. just don't bet money on simply making an API call to grabbing a user's home_timeline and rendering it. that's thinking too small, and @*rsarver* is telling you that. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Shannon Whitley shannon.whit...@gmail.com wrote: I was hoping that Ryan was just a few weeks early for his April Fools' post. Don't build clients? It sounds like a bad joke. I wrote a letter to Ryan on my blog in response to this post: http://www.voiceoftech.com/swhitley/index.php/2011/03/a-letter-to-ryan-sarver/ I know you guys can't be serious about this. Stage a mutiny if you have to, but don't let this boneheaded decision stand. -- Raffi Krikorian Twitter, Application Services http://twitter.com/raffi -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Adam Green Twitter API Consultant and Trainer http://140dev.com @140dev -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
[twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
Thanks, Raffi, but obviously I'm not the only one reaching these conclusions. If our interpretation is incorrect, then the policy isn't clear. Television shows, newspaper articles, and band pages are perfect examples of places where a Twitter client might be useful. I could build a full-featured Twitter client around a single news site and that might be the perfect solution for that set of users. Under the new guidelines, it sounds like I'd be shutdown. On Mar 12, 6:39 pm, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: in reading your blog post, i think you're misunderstanding what @*rsarver*wrote. the API is open -- i personally love seeing all the innovation around getting content into twitter (/1/status/update). there is a cafe in france who's oven tweets whenever its done baking. that uses the platform to get content in there. there was a NYU project that enabled your plants to tweet when they needed water. that uses the platform to get content into twitter. then there are people who match tweets to context. seeing twitter in action with a television show, or a newspaper article, or a conference, or a band -- that's how people really understand and get twitter. they see it through the lens of what's happening in the world. what @*rsarver* said, effectively, was building a business around *simply*rendering /1/statuses/home_timeline was probably-not-the-best-thing-to-do. please go still innovate. just don't bet money on simply making an API call to grabbing a user's home_timeline and rendering it. that's thinking too small, and @*rsarver* is telling you that. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Shannon Whitley shannon.whit...@gmail.comwrote: I was hoping that Ryan was just a few weeks early for his April Fools' post. Don't build clients? It sounds like a bad joke. I wrote a letter to Ryan on my blog in response to this post: http://www.voiceoftech.com/swhitley/index.php/2011/03/a-letter-to-rya... I know you guys can't be serious about this. Stage a mutiny if you have to, but don't let this boneheaded decision stand. -- Raffi Krikorian Twitter, Application Serviceshttp://twitter.com/raffi -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
is the twitter client what's the most useful thing there? i would think the algorithms and system to match tweets to that content is the most fruitful place for entrepreneurship? On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 7:22 PM, Shannon Whitley shannon.whit...@gmail.comwrote: Thanks, Raffi, but obviously I'm not the only one reaching these conclusions. If our interpretation is incorrect, then the policy isn't clear. Television shows, newspaper articles, and band pages are perfect examples of places where a Twitter client might be useful. I could build a full-featured Twitter client around a single news site and that might be the perfect solution for that set of users. Under the new guidelines, it sounds like I'd be shutdown. On Mar 12, 6:39 pm, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: in reading your blog post, i think you're misunderstanding what @*rsarver*wrote. the API is open -- i personally love seeing all the innovation around getting content into twitter (/1/status/update). there is a cafe in france who's oven tweets whenever its done baking. that uses the platform to get content in there. there was a NYU project that enabled your plants to tweet when they needed water. that uses the platform to get content into twitter. then there are people who match tweets to context. seeing twitter in action with a television show, or a newspaper article, or a conference, or a band -- that's how people really understand and get twitter. they see it through the lens of what's happening in the world. what @*rsarver* said, effectively, was building a business around *simply*rendering /1/statuses/home_timeline was probably-not-the-best-thing-to-do. please go still innovate. just don't bet money on simply making an API call to grabbing a user's home_timeline and rendering it. that's thinking too small, and @*rsarver* is telling you that. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Shannon Whitley shannon.whit...@gmail.comwrote: I was hoping that Ryan was just a few weeks early for his April Fools' post. Don't build clients? It sounds like a bad joke. I wrote a letter to Ryan on my blog in response to this post: http://www.voiceoftech.com/swhitley/index.php/2011/03/a-letter-to-rya. .. I know you guys can't be serious about this. Stage a mutiny if you have to, but don't let this boneheaded decision stand. -- Raffi Krikorian Twitter, Application Serviceshttp://twitter.com/raffi -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Raffi Krikorian Twitter, Application Services http://twitter.com/raffi -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
Can we get a definition of client? This seems to be where we are talking across each other. 1. Twitter HQ sees a client as an app that displays *only* a user's home time line and allows the user to tweet, retweet, follow, etc. 2. Developers see a client as an app that displays tweets from any source, including the home timeline *and* those that are curated by editors and algorithms, and allows the user to tweet, retweet, follow, etc. I think to Twitter HQ, these are two very different things. I believe that this is what Ryan was trying to say. I believe that Ryan was trying to say, don't build apps that *only* do 1. You will have more luck with 2. Developers heard don't build apps that do 2 or you will be instantly shut down. If Ryan hadn't combined his message with things that inadvertently also were perceived as a threat of instant shutdown as a result of an innocent misunderstanding of the rules, his statement would have been taken as advice, rather than a threat. I believe he meant well. He failed. He should keep trying until everyone understands. That is his job. Or it should at least be someone's job. Collectively the developers are worth the effort. Hey, why not hold a conference, put everyone together, and talk until this is clear? You can afford it. We all need it. Your future IPO investors aren't stupid. Well, at least not all of them. It is not just your revenue numbers they will see. It is lots of either happy or unhappy developers. We will raise your valuation. Keep saying that to Dick and the Board. They need to understand that. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 10:26 PM, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: is the twitter client what's the most useful thing there? i would think the algorithms and system to match tweets to that content is the most fruitful place for entrepreneurship? On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 7:22 PM, Shannon Whitley shannon.whit...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks, Raffi, but obviously I'm not the only one reaching these conclusions. If our interpretation is incorrect, then the policy isn't clear. Television shows, newspaper articles, and band pages are perfect examples of places where a Twitter client might be useful. I could build a full-featured Twitter client around a single news site and that might be the perfect solution for that set of users. Under the new guidelines, it sounds like I'd be shutdown. On Mar 12, 6:39 pm, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: in reading your blog post, i think you're misunderstanding what @*rsarver*wrote. the API is open -- i personally love seeing all the innovation around getting content into twitter (/1/status/update). there is a cafe in france who's oven tweets whenever its done baking. that uses the platform to get content in there. there was a NYU project that enabled your plants to tweet when they needed water. that uses the platform to get content into twitter. then there are people who match tweets to context. seeing twitter in action with a television show, or a newspaper article, or a conference, or a band -- that's how people really understand and get twitter. they see it through the lens of what's happening in the world. what @*rsarver* said, effectively, was building a business around *simply*rendering /1/statuses/home_timeline was probably-not-the-best-thing-to-do. please go still innovate. just don't bet money on simply making an API call to grabbing a user's home_timeline and rendering it. that's thinking too small, and @*rsarver* is telling you that. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Shannon Whitley shannon.whit...@gmail.comwrote: I was hoping that Ryan was just a few weeks early for his April Fools' post. Don't build clients? It sounds like a bad joke. I wrote a letter to Ryan on my blog in response to this post: http://www.voiceoftech.com/swhitley/index.php/2011/03/a-letter-to-rya. .. I know you guys can't be serious about this. Stage a mutiny if you have to, but don't let this boneheaded decision stand. -- Raffi Krikorian Twitter, Application Serviceshttp://twitter.com/raffi -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Raffi Krikorian Twitter, Application Services http://twitter.com/raffi -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Adam Green Twitter API Consultant and Trainer http://140dev.com @140dev -- Twitter developer documentation and
[twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
What I am hearing by reading through this thread and the various responses by @rsarver and @raffi is that Twitter is helping developers of Twitter clients realize that their efforts will not be economically fruitful. This is because Twitter HQ can't see how someone can build a Twitter client that is economically viable, due to one of two possible things: either their roadmap dictates that third party developers will not be able to be economically viable or they simply cannot envision any innovation in Twitter clients that anyone would pay for. It seems the former is more of the case here, but I don't put the later out of the realm of possibility, which is unfortunate. As for the former, whether Ryan's email was informative, helpful, harassing, or threatening is really of little point relative to the actual changes to the Twitter Terms of Service. I have worked hard for a year on a Twitter client that I think delivers substantial innovation, and I came to SXSW to unveil it. It delivers innovation that I believe people would pay for, and my feedback here has been confirming that. The changes to the ToS I believe may jeopardize the viability of the various solutions I have provided to long-standing problems with Twitter. The end result is that Twitter users will be deprived of solutions to long-standing problems, I will be deprived of the opportunity to grow a viable business, and Twitter will be deprived of innovation in their ecosystem. This seems to be a lose-lose situation all around, but obviously Twitter sees a forthcoming benefit for them that outweighs this. In the end what I really don't understand is that services such as HootSuite and CoTweet suddenly become reclassified as enterprise applications because they've figured out ways to generate revenue and are therefor no longer Twitter clients? This all seems to be based around an assumption that people won't ever pay to use Twitter in some capacity, only businesses. This, to me, is ludicrous. @orian On Mar 11, 2:18 pm, Ryan Sarver rsar...@twitter.com wrote: Hey all, I’d like to give you an update about the state of the Twitter Platform and hopefully provide some much requested guidance. Since this time last year, Twitter use has skyrocketed. We’ve grown from 48 million to 140 million tweets a day and we’re registering new accounts at an all-time record. This massive base of users, publishers, and businesses is a giant playground for developers to build their own businesses on, and this means the opportunity has grown for everyone. With more people joining Twitter and accessing the service in multiple ways, a consistent user experience is more crucial than ever. As we talked about last April, this was our motivation for buying Tweetie and developing our own official iPhone app. It is the reason why we have developed official apps for the Mac, iPad, Android and Windows Phone, and worked with RIM on their Twitter for Blackberry app. As a result, the top five ways that people access Twitter are official Twitter apps. Still, our user research shows that consumers continue to be confused by the different ways that a fractured landscape of third-party Twitter clients display tweets and let users interact with core Twitter functions. For example, people get confused by websites or clients that display tweets in a way that doesn’t follow our design guidelines, or when services put their own verbs on tweets instead of the ones used on Twitter. Similarly, a number of third-party consumer clients use their own versions of suggested users, trends, and other data streams, confusing users in our network even more. Users should be able to view, retweet, and reply to @nytimes’ tweets the same way; see the same profile information about @whitehouse; and be able to join in the discussion around the same trending topics as everyone else across Twitter. *A Consistent User Experience* Twitter is a network, and its network effects are driven by users seeing and contributing to the network’s conversations. We need to ensure users can interact with Twitter the same way everywhere. Specifically: - *The mainstream consumer client experience*. Twitter will provide the primary mainstream consumer client experience on phones, computers, and other devices by which millions of people access Twitter content (tweets, trends, profiles, etc.), and send tweets. If there are too many ways to use Twitter that are inconsistent with one another, we risk diffusing the user experience. In addition, a number of client applications have repeatedly violated Twitter’s Terms of Service, including our user privacy policy. This demonstrates the risks associated with outsourcing the Twitter user experience to third parties. Twitter has to revoke literally hundreds of API tokens / apps a week as part of our trust and safety efforts, in order to protect the user experience on our platform. - *Display of tweets in 3rd-party services*.
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
How does one create innovative solutions, if Twitter enforces on us the stipulation, that, the view should be user oriented? It sounds like we're being told, you cannot reference tweets with content which is similar to a certain topic. Imagine the earthquake in Japan, Now, it sounds like I cannot build an app/client/website, which shows tweets which have been sent talking about this unfortunate occurrence. I've already asked if one is allowed to discuss a particularly relevant tweet on this topic. No response from Ryan. You could just say NO. That is a minimum norm of politeness. Regards Umashankar Das On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Adam Green 140...@gmail.com wrote: Can we get a definition of client? This seems to be where we are talking across each other. 1. Twitter HQ sees a client as an app that displays *only* a user's home time line and allows the user to tweet, retweet, follow, etc. 2. Developers see a client as an app that displays tweets from any source, including the home timeline *and* those that are curated by editors and algorithms, and allows the user to tweet, retweet, follow, etc. I think to Twitter HQ, these are two very different things. I believe that this is what Ryan was trying to say. I believe that Ryan was trying to say, don't build apps that *only* do 1. You will have more luck with 2. Developers heard don't build apps that do 2 or you will be instantly shut down. If Ryan hadn't combined his message with things that inadvertently also were perceived as a threat of instant shutdown as a result of an innocent misunderstanding of the rules, his statement would have been taken as advice, rather than a threat. I believe he meant well. He failed. He should keep trying until everyone understands. That is his job. Or it should at least be someone's job. Collectively the developers are worth the effort. Hey, why not hold a conference, put everyone together, and talk until this is clear? You can afford it. We all need it. Your future IPO investors aren't stupid. Well, at least not all of them. It is not just your revenue numbers they will see. It is lots of either happy or unhappy developers. We will raise your valuation. Keep saying that to Dick and the Board. They need to understand that. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 10:26 PM, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.comwrote: is the twitter client what's the most useful thing there? i would think the algorithms and system to match tweets to that content is the most fruitful place for entrepreneurship? On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 7:22 PM, Shannon Whitley shannon.whit...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks, Raffi, but obviously I'm not the only one reaching these conclusions. If our interpretation is incorrect, then the policy isn't clear. Television shows, newspaper articles, and band pages are perfect examples of places where a Twitter client might be useful. I could build a full-featured Twitter client around a single news site and that might be the perfect solution for that set of users. Under the new guidelines, it sounds like I'd be shutdown. On Mar 12, 6:39 pm, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: in reading your blog post, i think you're misunderstanding what @*rsarver*wrote. the API is open -- i personally love seeing all the innovation around getting content into twitter (/1/status/update). there is a cafe in france who's oven tweets whenever its done baking. that uses the platform to get content in there. there was a NYU project that enabled your plants to tweet when they needed water. that uses the platform to get content into twitter. then there are people who match tweets to context. seeing twitter in action with a television show, or a newspaper article, or a conference, or a band -- that's how people really understand and get twitter. they see it through the lens of what's happening in the world. what @*rsarver* said, effectively, was building a business around *simply*rendering /1/statuses/home_timeline was probably-not-the-best-thing-to-do. please go still innovate. just don't bet money on simply making an API call to grabbing a user's home_timeline and rendering it. that's thinking too small, and @*rsarver* is telling you that. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Shannon Whitley shannon.whit...@gmail.comwrote: I was hoping that Ryan was just a few weeks early for his April Fools' post. Don't build clients? It sounds like a bad joke. I wrote a letter to Ryan on my blog in response to this post: http://www.voiceoftech.com/swhitley/index.php/2011/03/a-letter-to-rya... I know you guys can't be serious about this. Stage a mutiny if you have to, but don't let this boneheaded decision stand. -- Raffi Krikorian Twitter, Application Serviceshttp://twitter.com/raffi -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter:
Re: [twitter-dev] consistency and ecosystem opportunities
why would you need a brand new verb? what's wrong with reply? On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 8:40 PM, Umashankar Das umashankar...@gmail.comwrote: Dear Ryan, A very direct question. Is it being said that I cannot associate a brand new field like 'Discuss' with a tweet in my website? Regards Umashankar Das On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 1:48 AM, Ryan Sarver rsar...@twitter.com wrote: Hey all, I’d like to give you an update about the state of the Twitter Platform and hopefully provide some much requested guidance. Since this time last year, Twitter use has skyrocketed. We’ve grown from 48 million to 140 million tweets a day and we’re registering new accounts at an all-time record. This massive base of users, publishers, and businesses is a giant playground for developers to build their own businesses on, and this means the opportunity has grown for everyone. With more people joining Twitter and accessing the service in multiple ways, a consistent user experience is more crucial than ever. As we talked about last April, this was our motivation for buying Tweetie and developing our own official iPhone app. It is the reason why we have developed official apps for the Mac, iPad, Android and Windows Phone, and worked with RIM on their Twitter for Blackberry app. As a result, the top five ways that people access Twitter are official Twitter apps. Still, our user research shows that consumers continue to be confused by the different ways that a fractured landscape of third-party Twitter clients display tweets and let users interact with core Twitter functions. For example, people get confused by websites or clients that display tweets in a way that doesn’t follow our design guidelines, or when services put their own verbs on tweets instead of the ones used on Twitter. Similarly, a number of third-party consumer clients use their own versions of suggested users, trends, and other data streams, confusing users in our network even more. Users should be able to view, retweet, and reply to @nytimes’ tweets the same way; see the same profile information about @whitehouse; and be able to join in the discussion around the same trending topics as everyone else across Twitter. *A Consistent User Experience* Twitter is a network, and its network effects are driven by users seeing and contributing to the network’s conversations. We need to ensure users can interact with Twitter the same way everywhere. Specifically: - *The mainstream consumer client experience*. Twitter will provide the primary mainstream consumer client experience on phones, computers, and other devices by which millions of people access Twitter content (tweets, trends, profiles, etc.), and send tweets. If there are too many ways to use Twitter that are inconsistent with one another, we risk diffusing the user experience. In addition, a number of client applications have repeatedly violated Twitter’s Terms of Service, including our user privacy policy. This demonstrates the risks associated with outsourcing the Twitter user experience to third parties. Twitter has to revoke literally hundreds of API tokens / apps a week as part of our trust and safety efforts, in order to protect the user experience on our platform. - *Display of tweets in 3rd-party services*. We need to ensure that tweets, and tweet actions, are rendered in a consistent way so that people have the same experience with tweets no matter where they are. For example, some developers display “comment”, “like”, or other terms with tweets instead of “follow, favorite, retweet, reply” - thus changing the core functions of a tweet. With this in mind, we’ve updated our Terms of Service: http://dev.twitter.com/pages/api_terms. *The Opportunity for Developers* Developers have told us that they’d like more guidance from us about the best opportunities to build on Twitter. More specifically, developers ask us if they should build client apps that mimic or reproduce the mainstream Twitter consumer client experience. The answer is no. If you are an existing developer of client apps, you can continue to serve your user base, but we will be holding you to high standards to ensure you do not violate users’ privacy, that you provide consistency in the user experience, and that you rigorously adhere to all areas of our Terms of Service. We have spoken with the major client applications in the Twitter ecosystem about these needs on an ongoing basis, and will continue to ensure a high bar is maintained. As we point out above, we need to move to a less fragmented world, where every user can experience Twitter in a consistent way. This is already happening organically - the number and market share of consumer client apps that are not owned or operated by Twitter has been shrinking. According to our data, 90% of active Twitter users use official Twitter apps on a monthly basis. In contrast, the number of successful
Re: [twitter-dev] consistency and ecosystem opportunities
It has got to do with the nature of the way content is used. We will also have 'reply' to respond to the user. But, 'Discuss' is there to allow discussion on a certain topic. Imagine the context of the earthquake in Japan. Some user wants to know about facilities being provided by relief agencies in Tokyo. The discussion will be useful for a group of people who reference a particular tweet. Regards Umashankar Das On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: why would you need a brand new verb? what's wrong with reply? On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 8:40 PM, Umashankar Das umashankar...@gmail.comwrote: Dear Ryan, A very direct question. Is it being said that I cannot associate a brand new field like 'Discuss' with a tweet in my website? Regards Umashankar Das On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 1:48 AM, Ryan Sarver rsar...@twitter.com wrote: Hey all, I’d like to give you an update about the state of the Twitter Platform and hopefully provide some much requested guidance. Since this time last year, Twitter use has skyrocketed. We’ve grown from 48 million to 140 million tweets a day and we’re registering new accounts at an all-time record. This massive base of users, publishers, and businesses is a giant playground for developers to build their own businesses on, and this means the opportunity has grown for everyone. With more people joining Twitter and accessing the service in multiple ways, a consistent user experience is more crucial than ever. As we talked about last April, this was our motivation for buying Tweetie and developing our own official iPhone app. It is the reason why we have developed official apps for the Mac, iPad, Android and Windows Phone, and worked with RIM on their Twitter for Blackberry app. As a result, the top five ways that people access Twitter are official Twitter apps. Still, our user research shows that consumers continue to be confused by the different ways that a fractured landscape of third-party Twitter clients display tweets and let users interact with core Twitter functions. For example, people get confused by websites or clients that display tweets in a way that doesn’t follow our design guidelines, or when services put their own verbs on tweets instead of the ones used on Twitter. Similarly, a number of third-party consumer clients use their own versions of suggested users, trends, and other data streams, confusing users in our network even more. Users should be able to view, retweet, and reply to @nytimes’ tweets the same way; see the same profile information about @whitehouse; and be able to join in the discussion around the same trending topics as everyone else across Twitter. *A Consistent User Experience* Twitter is a network, and its network effects are driven by users seeing and contributing to the network’s conversations. We need to ensure users can interact with Twitter the same way everywhere. Specifically: - *The mainstream consumer client experience*. Twitter will provide the primary mainstream consumer client experience on phones, computers, and other devices by which millions of people access Twitter content (tweets, trends, profiles, etc.), and send tweets. If there are too many ways to use Twitter that are inconsistent with one another, we risk diffusing the user experience. In addition, a number of client applications have repeatedly violated Twitter’s Terms of Service, including our user privacy policy. This demonstrates the risks associated with outsourcing the Twitter user experience to third parties. Twitter has to revoke literally hundreds of API tokens / apps a week as part of our trust and safety efforts, in order to protect the user experience on our platform. - *Display of tweets in 3rd-party services*. We need to ensure that tweets, and tweet actions, are rendered in a consistent way so that people have the same experience with tweets no matter where they are. For example, some developers display “comment”, “like”, or other terms with tweets instead of “follow, favorite, retweet, reply” - thus changing the core functions of a tweet. With this in mind, we’ve updated our Terms of Service: http://dev.twitter.com/pages/api_terms. *The Opportunity for Developers* Developers have told us that they’d like more guidance from us about the best opportunities to build on Twitter. More specifically, developers ask us if they should build client apps that mimic or reproduce the mainstream Twitter consumer client experience. The answer is no. If you are an existing developer of client apps, you can continue to serve your user base, but we will be holding you to high standards to ensure you do not violate users’ privacy, that you provide consistency in the user experience, and that you rigorously adhere to all areas of our Terms of Service. We have spoken with the major client applications in the Twitter ecosystem about these needs on
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
hey adam. i can't speak officially and definitively, however, we don't think there are as many business opportunities in making a piece of software that *simply* renders any of our timeline methods (/1/statuses/home_timeline,/1/statuses/mentions, lists, etc.). that's your #1. you're right, we do think there is a lot to be done with tweet summarization, curation, selection, matching, etc. focus your efforts on that and just follow our lead with tweet rendering and interaction. does that help? On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 7:45 PM, Adam Green 140...@gmail.com wrote: Can we get a definition of client? This seems to be where we are talking across each other. 1. Twitter HQ sees a client as an app that displays *only* a user's home time line and allows the user to tweet, retweet, follow, etc. 2. Developers see a client as an app that displays tweets from any source, including the home timeline *and* those that are curated by editors and algorithms, and allows the user to tweet, retweet, follow, etc. I think to Twitter HQ, these are two very different things. I believe that this is what Ryan was trying to say. I believe that Ryan was trying to say, don't build apps that *only* do 1. You will have more luck with 2. Developers heard don't build apps that do 2 or you will be instantly shut down. If Ryan hadn't combined his message with things that inadvertently also were perceived as a threat of instant shutdown as a result of an innocent misunderstanding of the rules, his statement would have been taken as advice, rather than a threat. I believe he meant well. He failed. He should keep trying until everyone understands. That is his job. Or it should at least be someone's job. Collectively the developers are worth the effort. Hey, why not hold a conference, put everyone together, and talk until this is clear? You can afford it. We all need it. Your future IPO investors aren't stupid. Well, at least not all of them. It is not just your revenue numbers they will see. It is lots of either happy or unhappy developers. We will raise your valuation. Keep saying that to Dick and the Board. They need to understand that. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 10:26 PM, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.comwrote: is the twitter client what's the most useful thing there? i would think the algorithms and system to match tweets to that content is the most fruitful place for entrepreneurship? On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 7:22 PM, Shannon Whitley shannon.whit...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks, Raffi, but obviously I'm not the only one reaching these conclusions. If our interpretation is incorrect, then the policy isn't clear. Television shows, newspaper articles, and band pages are perfect examples of places where a Twitter client might be useful. I could build a full-featured Twitter client around a single news site and that might be the perfect solution for that set of users. Under the new guidelines, it sounds like I'd be shutdown. On Mar 12, 6:39 pm, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: in reading your blog post, i think you're misunderstanding what @*rsarver*wrote. the API is open -- i personally love seeing all the innovation around getting content into twitter (/1/status/update). there is a cafe in france who's oven tweets whenever its done baking. that uses the platform to get content in there. there was a NYU project that enabled your plants to tweet when they needed water. that uses the platform to get content into twitter. then there are people who match tweets to context. seeing twitter in action with a television show, or a newspaper article, or a conference, or a band -- that's how people really understand and get twitter. they see it through the lens of what's happening in the world. what @*rsarver* said, effectively, was building a business around *simply*rendering /1/statuses/home_timeline was probably-not-the-best-thing-to-do. please go still innovate. just don't bet money on simply making an API call to grabbing a user's home_timeline and rendering it. that's thinking too small, and @*rsarver* is telling you that. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Shannon Whitley shannon.whit...@gmail.comwrote: I was hoping that Ryan was just a few weeks early for his April Fools' post. Don't build clients? It sounds like a bad joke. I wrote a letter to Ryan on my blog in response to this post: http://www.voiceoftech.com/swhitley/index.php/2011/03/a-letter-to-rya... I know you guys can't be serious about this. Stage a mutiny if you have to, but don't let this boneheaded decision stand. -- Raffi Krikorian Twitter, Application Serviceshttp://twitter.com/raffi -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
Hi Raffi, * **[you're right, we do think there is a lot to be done with tweet summarization, curation, selection, matching, etc. focus your efforts on that and just follow our lead with tweet rendering and interaction.]* This statement really helps me, personally. We're not doing tweet rendering. Interaction was a like 20% of the product we are working on here. We will try to think of a workaround. If the above statement was part of Ryan's original mail, it would've helped us a lot. You've mentioned that your statement is neither official nor definitive. It would be really great if Ryan (as the head of Platform development) would discuss this. Twitter's restrictions on usage of streaming and search api's were a big bottleneck to our product. We've finally found a solution which does not overload twitter at all. Please ask Ryan if he may repeat your statement above, mentioned by you. Appreciate you putting the time into this. Regards Umashankar Das On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: hey adam. i can't speak officially and definitively, however, we don't think there are as many business opportunities in making a piece of software that * simply* renders any of our timeline methods (/1/statuses/home_timeline, /1/statuses/mentions, lists, etc.). that's your #1. you're right, we do think there is a lot to be done with tweet summarization, curation, selection, matching, etc. focus your efforts on that and just follow our lead with tweet rendering and interaction. does that help? On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 7:45 PM, Adam Green 140...@gmail.com wrote: Can we get a definition of client? This seems to be where we are talking across each other. 1. Twitter HQ sees a client as an app that displays *only* a user's home time line and allows the user to tweet, retweet, follow, etc. 2. Developers see a client as an app that displays tweets from any source, including the home timeline *and* those that are curated by editors and algorithms, and allows the user to tweet, retweet, follow, etc. I think to Twitter HQ, these are two very different things. I believe that this is what Ryan was trying to say. I believe that Ryan was trying to say, don't build apps that *only* do 1. You will have more luck with 2. Developers heard don't build apps that do 2 or you will be instantly shut down. If Ryan hadn't combined his message with things that inadvertently also were perceived as a threat of instant shutdown as a result of an innocent misunderstanding of the rules, his statement would have been taken as advice, rather than a threat. I believe he meant well. He failed. He should keep trying until everyone understands. That is his job. Or it should at least be someone's job. Collectively the developers are worth the effort. Hey, why not hold a conference, put everyone together, and talk until this is clear? You can afford it. We all need it. Your future IPO investors aren't stupid. Well, at least not all of them. It is not just your revenue numbers they will see. It is lots of either happy or unhappy developers. We will raise your valuation. Keep saying that to Dick and the Board. They need to understand that. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 10:26 PM, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.comwrote: is the twitter client what's the most useful thing there? i would think the algorithms and system to match tweets to that content is the most fruitful place for entrepreneurship? On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 7:22 PM, Shannon Whitley shannon.whit...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks, Raffi, but obviously I'm not the only one reaching these conclusions. If our interpretation is incorrect, then the policy isn't clear. Television shows, newspaper articles, and band pages are perfect examples of places where a Twitter client might be useful. I could build a full-featured Twitter client around a single news site and that might be the perfect solution for that set of users. Under the new guidelines, it sounds like I'd be shutdown. On Mar 12, 6:39 pm, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: in reading your blog post, i think you're misunderstanding what @*rsarver*wrote. the API is open -- i personally love seeing all the innovation around getting content into twitter (/1/status/update). there is a cafe in france who's oven tweets whenever its done baking. that uses the platform to get content in there. there was a NYU project that enabled your plants to tweet when they needed water. that uses the platform to get content into twitter. then there are people who match tweets to context. seeing twitter in action with a television show, or a newspaper article, or a conference, or a band -- that's how people really understand and get twitter. they see it through the lens of what's happening in the world. what @*rsarver* said, effectively, was building a business around *simply*rendering /1/statuses/home_timeline was
[twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
Hi Raffi So if I'm reading what you wrote correctly, simple clients that just display a timeline, post etc are thinking too small and there is no business there, something I can agree with. However many of us have, what I'd call a value added client. Sure we have the basics of a client, but we have what I'd like to think are added value services such as tweet scheduling, augmented reality of tweeters around you, user streams, draft management, and so much more. Are we to think that these are actually going to be fine for the time being, so long as obviously we comply with the ToS. What you guys seem to be saying though is don't build clients because it won't make money, but some people seem to fail to grasp some of us develop apps like this because we enjoy it... it's a hobby and a passion and that doesn't always involve tons of profit. Services such as Seesmic started out in the simple Client business, remember Twhirl, etc. Sure they grew into something enterprise, but most of us start out at the bottom and with the basics. Richard On Mar 13, 2:39 am, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: in reading your blog post, i think you're misunderstanding what @*rsarver*wrote. the API is open -- i personally love seeing all the innovation around getting content into twitter (/1/status/update). there is a cafe in france who's oven tweets whenever its done baking. that uses the platform to get content in there. there was a NYU project that enabled your plants to tweet when they needed water. that uses the platform to get content into twitter. then there are people who match tweets to context. seeing twitter in action with a television show, or a newspaper article, or a conference, or a band -- that's how people really understand and get twitter. they see it through the lens of what's happening in the world. what @*rsarver* said, effectively, was building a business around *simply*rendering /1/statuses/home_timeline was probably-not-the-best-thing-to-do. please go still innovate. just don't bet money on simply making an API call to grabbing a user's home_timeline and rendering it. that's thinking too small, and @*rsarver* is telling you that. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Shannon Whitley shannon.whit...@gmail.comwrote: I was hoping that Ryan was just a few weeks early for his April Fools' post. Don't build clients? It sounds like a bad joke. I wrote a letter to Ryan on my blog in response to this post: http://www.voiceoftech.com/swhitley/index.php/2011/03/a-letter-to-rya... I know you guys can't be serious about this. Stage a mutiny if you have to, but don't let this boneheaded decision stand. -- Raffi Krikorian Twitter, Application Serviceshttp://twitter.com/raffi -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
