RE: UniData JDBC
Yes, JDBC does come with 6.0. I don't recall if 6.0 is the first version that includes jdbc or just the first version that I would be willing to use jdbc with UniData, but there is a switch in my brain (once upon a time the detail would be there too) that says that UniData 6.0 is the first version to use with jdbc. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fawaz Ashraff Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 9:37 AM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: UniData JDBC Good Morning All, We currently have UniData 5.13.. and use UniODBC. We are planing to move on to UniData 6.0 on UNIX and would like to know whether it comes with JDBC? If so, does it work with any earlier version than UniData 6.0? Thanks Fawaz __ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: XML and U2
Hi Rob -- It is the rare table, indeed, that is created with a sql CREATE TABLE statement in a U2 database. U2 has SQL as a second language. It is not really an RDBMS, but uses a data model very similar to the one used by XML (a tree or di-graph structure). With the CREATE-FILE command a file gets created and then when a dictionary is populated, it is descriptive of the data (so not quite the same as an RDBMS that way) and can include sub-fields. The database comes pre-loaded with functions on multi-values and multi-valued sub-values and users write similar functions to lower levels if needed. Let me know if that doesn't quite answer the question. Thanks. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jerry Banker Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 11:30 AM To: U2-Users Subject: Fw: XML and U2 I finally got an answer back from Ron Bourret and he has added the U2 products to his XML enabled list of databases. Anybody want to answer his question? I could do it but I'm kind of busy right now. Jerry - Original Message - From: Ronald Bourret [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jerry Banker [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 6:32 PM Subject: Re: XML and U2 This is to let you know that I've finally added UniVerse and UniData to the list. You can see the entries at: http://www.rpbourret.com/xml/ProdsXMLEnabled.htm#unidata http://www.rpbourret.com/xml/ProdsXMLEnabled.htm#universe Comments / corrections welcome. (One question I had was whether UniVerse supports multi-subvalued columns as well as multi-valued columns. There are a number of references to subvalues in the documents, but the UniVerse CREATE TABLE command does not seem to support them...) Thanks for you patience, -- Ron Jerry Banker wrote: Ronald Bourret, Looking over your list of XML enabled databases I was impressed however I noticed that you included IBM's DB2 product but excluded IBM's most XML like databases referred to as their U2 product line (uniVerse and Unidata). Both U2 products are post-relational and use a nested file architecture very much similar to XML design and do have XML transformation tools (uniVerse more so than Unidata at the latest revision). XML documents can be output through their query language and imported into the database through simple commands. Another advantage is that the database can be accessed through it's native query language or with SQL. You should look into these products if you have not already. http://www-3.ibm.com/software/data/u2/ Jerry Banker Member U2UG -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: XML and U2
You are correct that the built-in XML -- U2 utilities go to sub-values and I think it makes sense to ignore the text values information at this point. Thanks. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: Ronald Bourret [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 4:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: XML and U2 Thanks. That clarifies things and I'll modify the entry for UniVerse to account for this. You do raise a new question when you say: The database comes pre-loaded with functions on multi-values and multi-valued sub-values and users write similar functions to lower levels if needed. Does this mean that you can have sub-sub-values, sub-sub-sub-values, and so on, ad infinitum? If so, do the XML tools handle this, adding more sub-elements as needed? The XML = DB mapping languages for UniData and UniVerse don't seem to handle this, except that the documentation for UniData seems to allow one level beneath sub-values, saying something about adding another sub-element in the case of text marks. (I dutifully ignored this, having spent too much time on the entries already :) -- Ron Dawn M. Wolthuis wrote: Hi Rob -- It is the rare table, indeed, that is created with a sql CREATE TABLE statement in a U2 database. U2 has SQL as a second language. It is not really an RDBMS, but uses a data model very similar to the one used by XML (a tree or di-graph structure). With the CREATE-FILE command a file gets created and then when a dictionary is populated, it is descriptive of the data (so not quite the same as an RDBMS that way) and can include sub-fields. The database comes pre-loaded with functions on multi-values and multi-valued sub-values and users write similar functions to lower levels if needed. Let me know if that doesn't quite answer the question. Thanks. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jerry Banker Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 11:30 AM To: U2-Users Subject: Fw: XML and U2 I finally got an answer back from Ron Bourret and he has added the U2 products to his XML enabled list of databases. Anybody want to answer his question? I could do it but I'm kind of busy right now. Jerry - Original Message - From: Ronald Bourret [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jerry Banker [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 6:32 PM Subject: Re: XML and U2 This is to let you know that I've finally added UniVerse and UniData to the list. You can see the entries at: http://www.rpbourret.com/xml/ProdsXMLEnabled.htm#unidata http://www.rpbourret.com/xml/ProdsXMLEnabled.htm#universe Comments / corrections welcome. (One question I had was whether UniVerse supports multi-subvalued columns as well as multi-valued columns. There are a number of references to subvalues in the documents, but the UniVerse CREATE TABLE command does not seem to support them...) Thanks for you patience, -- Ron Jerry Banker wrote: Ronald Bourret, Looking over your list of XML enabled databases I was impressed however I noticed that you included IBM's DB2 product but excluded IBM's most XML like databases referred to as their U2 product line (uniVerse and Unidata). Both U2 products are post-relational and use a nested file architecture very much similar to XML design and do have XML transformation tools (uniVerse more so than Unidata at the latest revision). XML documents can be output through their query language and imported into the database through simple commands. Another advantage is that the database can be accessed through it's native query language or with SQL. You should look into these products if you have not already. http://www-3.ibm.com/software/data/u2/ Jerry Banker Member U2UG -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
How far can U2 scale?
At what point in the life of application software would it be so large that you could not (or would not want to) support it with your existing UniData or UniVerse database? Is there a point where you would be better served by DB2 or Oracle, for example due to the scale you are working with? I hear people talk about moving way from U2 in order to do ODBC and use standard industry tools (and most find that the grass is not greener for those purposes), but I don't hear about switching because of running into scaling issues. However, we sometimes think of PICK as addressing small-to-mid size businesses and RDBMS folks sometimes think of their products as scaling the best. So, what's the cut-off for U2? Thanks. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI as nice as character-based
but you must run your database on Windows with Revelation, right? I heard through the grapevine that Windows was going away ;-) so I really want something that is Windows-independent, yet where any client or server in the mix could be Windows. But I do get the Revelation mailings and I think the company is doing good work with/for their customers. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dennis Bartlett Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 3:56 AM To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: GUI as nice as character-based Dawn Why dispense with the work already done in Data/Basic - I know I plug the language, and y'all ignore me, but OpenInsight (the GUI version of Advanced Revelation) looks and feels just like the Gates product, _and_ has the wonderful facility to use your already existing DataBasic code. The basic is called R/Basic, looks just like DataBasic, with a few extra concepts like mouse control built in. Type ahead works just like it does in U2. snip -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI as nice as character-based
Java Web Start works reasonably well, and I have used it. But I sure don't see how you are locked in to Sun by using it. The Java libraries will be perpetuated with or without Sun. For example, IBM develops with Java, and I'm certain they don't think they are locked into Sun. Locked into Microsoft implies dollars (forever) while locked into Java doesn't feel like as much of a prison at all. Agree? --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christophe Marchal Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 1:03 AM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: GUI as nice as character-based Well, you have the java choice ;-) Java and javawebstart do the same thing as explain by James. Check http://java.sun.com/products/javawebstart/architecture.html But you'll still locked into Sun (instead of microsoft) ;-) Christophe Dawn M. Wolthuis wrote: And will this next version of .NET run fine on Linux and Mac OS? I don't keep current enough with MS and I know they keep suggesting they will run on Linux and MacOS, but I'm not familiar with any projects that will actually accomplish that. While their .NET efforts do look like they have a lot of things going right for them, I still don't like locking into Microsoft for everything. If I knew I could deploy the results of .NET development efforts on other platforms, I'd be much more interested. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Canale, Jr. Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 12:31 PM To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: GUI as nice as character-based So, shockwave is fine, Java Web Start is fine and anything else that could be installed by users going to this web page and clicking here and that is maintained something like Adobe pdf readers would be fine. In case you haven't seen the next version of .NET yet, Visual Studio 2005 has a Click Once feature that is exactly this. The zero touch deployment or xcopy stuff that started with the first release of .NET was like the first version of Windows, the start of an idea that wasn't really too far along. The next version improves quite a bit on this beginning. Actually, you have options to start from a web 'click', install a link to the desktop/start menu, etc.. It automatically checks/downloads a newer version (or runs locally if no connection to the server). I'm sure there are still going to be some issues (dealing with unmanaged code comes to mind) but, it should work very well with UniObjects.NET (when it gets here). Regards, Jim -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: [UD] Known ODBC Linux or 6.0 issues?
I think someone posted the name of the voc entry required if you want to do something at the time of an ODBC login, such as initializing named common memory. Otherwise, I suspect it is in the doc somewhere (sorry I don't have more details). Check the voc on your previous system for an entry like ...ODBC... and on the new and be sure the same routine is present, compiled, cataloged on both machines. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Wallis Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 4:51 AM To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: [UD] Known ODBC Linux or 6.0 issues? Sorry to have to throw this out without fully researching it first, but I've got a client with a pressing problem. They are in the final stages of preparing to switch over from their current DG-UX Intel platform running UniData 5.2 to a new Linux based system running 6.0 and ODBC doesn't appear to be working correctly when they access virtual fields that call SUBRoutines. There is one critical process that requires ODBC to be up and running and this makes use of a number of SUBR virtual fields. Needless to say, everything works fine against the DG. The new system is RH 2.1 ES (kernel build 2.4.9-e34smp) running UniData 6.0.5. Is anyone aware of any known issues with ODBC on this platform, or of any gotchas they may have forgotten to set up properly regarding calling SUBRs via dictionary fields accessed through ODBC. The queries apparently run fine if cut and pasted in at the sql prompt (other than a few warnings about missing associations), but blow up with a variety of errors (fetch errors, 81002 and 81001s) when run through MS Query. Ramping the logging level at the server up to 9 seems to show the server log just stopping in mid flow at about the time that the queries blow up and die. Queries which only access data fields run OK, but if they call a SUBR it gets nasty. I'm at a bit of a loss on this one and working only on info gained from a long telephone call at present so I'm afraid the details are sketchy. I'm hoping someone in a different timezone has seen this before and solved it (or knows it can't be solved) so we can short-circuit things a bit tomorrow as I try to track down and resolve this before cutover on the weekend! Cheers, Ken -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: We need a web based Forum!
This is a good conversation and one we ought to be able to make progress with over time. When the U2UG board agreed to take on the u2-users list from Clif, we figured that we would serve the community best if we don't vary too many factors at one time. We would prefer that the move from [EMAIL PROTECTED] to [EMAIL PROTECTED] at the end of this month be painless enough that we don't lose community members. Once u2-users is happily living in its new home and the www.u2ug.org site is a place you want to go to regularly, we can look at various requirements and see if there is a solution that meets all or at least more requirements than the current one. I, for one, am one of the old fuddy-duddies who does fine with e-mail lists, is OK with usenet when necessary, and can't seem to get a pattern that works for me with forums. I don't know if it is a personality type that prefers one over the other or if there are some work habit changes that just aren't obvious enough to me, but I haven't found a way to change from e-mail lists to forums as yet. As others have mentioned, if there were a way for each user to use whatever interface were desired for seeing threads, sending and receiving postings, etc so that each could use their preferred approach, that would be ideal -- something to strive for ... --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 3:00 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: We need a web based Forum! I only belong to two groups: this one and sbsolutions on yahoo groups. To me they behave the same - I have an email folder for each and messages are routed there. I interact with them in the same way - simply sending e-mail messages. However, the yahoo group also has a web-site with all of the messages in it that I've occasionally used to search (although their search is terrible). I don't think external search engines capture them as you need to login in order to see the posts. The only problem is that the messages appear in posted order and not sorted by conversation. Even better would be the option to have either order. Well, that's my vote. Web based forums with the options to receive/post through e-mail. Limited to members only. With a good search utility. Now surely as a bunch on computer geeks we could make this happen... -- Colin Alfke Calgary, Alberta Canada Just because something isn't broken doesn't mean that you can't fix it Stu Pickles -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [SNIP] I disagree that its very common to have what I posted. But I'm not sure you understood me. Let's say I'm subscribed to both the forum and its corresponding email list. If I send a message to the email list only, will it appear on the forum site? Or alternatively will it appear in the archives of the forum site? That's the question. Will -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: Database decoupling (Was: Future of U2)
Robert -- I requested pet store data models from this group at one point and I have a good draft of a suggested pet store data model for pick. If/when you could use it for maverick, just ask and I'll figure out where I filed it. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Colquhoun Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 5:57 AM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: Database decoupling (Was: Future of U2) Hi John, At 11:33 PM 19/04/2004, Jon Wells wrote: Sounds a bit like the Coyote Web Server [ http://coyote.easyco.com/ ] This functionality would be a great thing to add to the Maverick project. You can do this today via the basic compiler which can inherit(in a java/OO sense) functionality into your basic programs. You would need some glue code, perhaps around 100-200 lines and then each basic program would become a java servlet. ie With a suitable app server ie tomcat, websphere, weblogic, jrun, orion etc your application could connect to U2 as a data source or use one of the other database drivers much like java applications switch dbs by substituting the JDBC driver. I have been meaning to get Pet Store or similar going in maverick to demonstrate how this works. This doesnt solve what Mark wants though which i think is to build an app server completely inside a mv engine so that websphere/tomcat is not needed. - Robert -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI as nice as character-based
I'll accept that restatement, Will. My intent was not that there was no footprint on the client, but that the user could go to a URL and would be able to launch what they need to from there. So, shockwave is fine, Java Web Start is fine and anything else that could be installed by users going to this web page and clicking here and that is maintained something like Adobe pdf readers would be fine. Thanks for clarifying. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 10:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: GUI as nice as character-based In a message dated 4/19/2004 6:36:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This does violate your rule about zero install, but I can't think of a real zero install technology ... once you consider web browser dependencies, java dependencies, flash player dependencies, citrix dependencies, terminal emulation dependencies etc there is always *something* you need to have or fiddle with on the client (otherwise we'd all be shipping PCs with no O/S installed). Craig You can't really have a zero client footprint. I'd rephrase Dawn's statement to say that perhaps you are using client software that the average person would ALREADY have installed such as a browser, a jpg viewer, a mp3 player, etc. Will -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI as nice as character-based
Excellent! I just took at look at wxwidgets and will look into it further. I also like your app browser concept (but remembered not to include the entire original post in my response this time -- sorry I forget that on occasion) and I actually use something that could grow into that -- a Jini services browser (see www.jini.org or www.incax.com) --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Craig Bennett Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 8:32 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: GUI as nice as character-based Dawn, how blue sky are we talking? I am hugely impressed with wxWidgets (http://www.wxwidgets.org) a C++ GUI framework for developing applications on Windows, X, Mac, OS/2. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI as nice as character-based
And will this next version of .NET run fine on Linux and Mac OS? I don't keep current enough with MS and I know they keep suggesting they will run on Linux and MacOS, but I'm not familiar with any projects that will actually accomplish that. While their .NET efforts do look like they have a lot of things going right for them, I still don't like locking into Microsoft for everything. If I knew I could deploy the results of .NET development efforts on other platforms, I'd be much more interested. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Canale, Jr. Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 12:31 PM To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: GUI as nice as character-based So, shockwave is fine, Java Web Start is fine and anything else that could be installed by users going to this web page and clicking here and that is maintained something like Adobe pdf readers would be fine. In case you haven't seen the next version of .NET yet, Visual Studio 2005 has a Click Once feature that is exactly this. The zero touch deployment or xcopy stuff that started with the first release of .NET was like the first version of Windows, the start of an idea that wasn't really too far along. The next version improves quite a bit on this beginning. Actually, you have options to start from a web 'click', install a link to the desktop/start menu, etc.. It automatically checks/downloads a newer version (or runs locally if no connection to the server). I'm sure there are still going to be some issues (dealing with unmanaged code comes to mind) but, it should work very well with UniObjects.NET (when it gets here). Regards, Jim -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: What client platform do YOU use (Parallel to GUI thread)
As we get U2UG off the ground, one thing we are definitely doing is collecting requests from users. If you want to request that U2 run on OS X, then there either is today or will be tomorrow a means to do that. Until then, if you make it clear in a post to this list that you are officially requesting that the U2UG group collecting U2 enhancements add this one to their list, then I suspect we can make it so. Cheers! --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron White Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 1:22 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: What client platform do YOU use (Parallel to GUI thread) When Apple came out with the XServer we were all excited and started looking at transitioning our servers and clients to the Apple environment. This project never went anywhere because IBM would not commit to supporting UniVerse in that environment. Since Mac and XServer are OS X and OS X is based on FreeBSD 4.x I thought it would be something IBM might want to do to provide an avenue of escape from the M$ strangle hold. No joy... Ron White --- [ Eckel certifies this E-mail to be virus free. ] -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: Uniobjects / php
Yes, I've played with it -- no production work and yes, Apache's axis is THE way I'd do web services (were I to have such a project on my plate right now). --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stuart Boydell Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 5:54 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: Uniobjects / php Behalf Of Dawn M. Wolthuis The fastest, bestest, free way I know to have html--U2 with update capability is by using tomcat for a web server (or at least for an app server, i.e. a servlet container), then UOJ classes with Java. Client: Web Browser, with html / jsp Http Server: Requires a servlet container, such as tomcat, this is where the Java classes including UOJ classes run Database Server: U2 It works. See pickwiki.com (or .org?) You could use Jython, in theory, although I haven't tried that. --dawn Have you used Axis at all - would you consider throwing that into the mix too for Web Services? http://ws.apache.org/axis/ Stuart ** This email message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of addressed recipient(s). If you have received this email in error please notify the Spotless IS Support Centre (61 3 9269 7555) immediately who will advise further action. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses. ** -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
GUI as nice as character-based
I haven't gotten through all of the postings in the GUI thread as yet, but am working on the question of how to write a GUI that is as good as a green screen from the perspective of folks currently using a green screen application. I saw hints at that, but nothing that tackled it from the standpoint of being able to use any tools on the market today to accomplish this (no need to retain databasic code, for example). What could be used to actually replace, completely, the character screens? Requirements: 0) work with U2 as multiuser databases 1) Be able to use any Windows, new Mac (unix) or Linux client 2) Have graphically attractive colorful screens, looking enough like standard GUIs (M$, in particular) that users would understand the use of icons, etc. 3) Respond to keystrokes by users -- not only to the click of a submit button 4) Require no preparation of the client computers in advance of using the software, likely directing user to a web page. 5) type ahead can be done so that the user is not waiting constantly for the computer to respond 6) Heads down data entry folks are as happy with this as they were with their green screens when they first got those and have only minor complaints if converting now from a green screen, none of substance What are the options -- who has written or seen such a GUI? --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI or Event ? as nice as character-based
Does the requirement to have no client-side setup (other than pointing a user to a web page in a std web browser) eliminate accuterm or not? If not, then does this permit drop-down boxes, combo boxes, calendars for date entry and the usual icons one might expect for various features? I'm talking about the U2 database, but the tools on the mv side need not be more than UOJ, for example (with support for update of stored fields and preferably also virtual fields as read-only). Thanks. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 1:28 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: GUI or Event ? as nice as character-based Clarify. Are you talking about *within* the mv environment? Or an outside app? Accuterm has the ability to recognize where a mouse-click is in regards to (col, row). This is the same col, row that PRINT @ uses. Now if your mv programs have a single, standard INPUT subroutine then you can simply modify that subroutine. So your modification would look something like If I.am.using.accuterm then if mouseclick then get.location; determine.which.field; reset fieldno = this.field redo.input = true; return end end else input xxx end Or something along those lines. I have only seen one application package that integrated this ability, however, the screen drivers it built allowed the user to point-and-click and enter data into any field in any order on the screen. It was then up to the programmer to ensure that intra-field dependencies were properly handled. But it was certainly a good start. Is that what you meant? Will In a message dated 4/19/2004 2:17:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I haven't gotten through all of the postings in the GUI thread as yet, but am working on the question of how to write a GUI that is as good as a green screen from the perspective of folks currently using a green screen application. I saw hints at that, but nothing that tackled it from the standpoint of being able to use any tools on the market today to accomplish this (no need to retain databasic code, for example). What could be used to actually replace, completely, the character screens? Requirements: 0) work with U2 as multiuser databases 1) Be able to use any Windows, new Mac (unix) or Linux client 2) Have graphically attractive colorful screens, looking enough like standard GUIs (M$, in particular) that users would understand the use of icons, etc. 3) Respond to keystrokes by users -- not only to the click of a submit button 4) Require no preparation of the client computers in advance of using the software, likely directing user to a web page. 5) type ahead can be done so that the user is not waiting constantly for the computer to respond 6) Heads down data entry folks are as happy with this as they were with their green screens when they first got those and have only minor complaints if converting now from a green screen, none of substance What are the options -- who has written or seen such a GUI? --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI as nice as character-based
Ah, I should add or modify one of the requirements -- when I indicated that there needs to be no setup on the client, I should put that in the client tier and consider citrix servers to be application clients, of sorts. So, for my purposes (though not for everyone), a citrix server is not an option. 1. Client Tier (no setup) 2. Http Server Tier (could include app server, such as tomcat or EJB container such as Eclipse or WebSphere) 3. Database Server Tier I'll clarify the requirements to add no more tiers. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Buffington, Wyatt Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 1:57 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: GUI as nice as character-based We have been using a product called SmarTerm from Esker. It allows us to displays screen close to GUI that is easily configureable by the end user with little to no programming. It allows for HotSpots which appear as a button on the screen which the user can click on. Buttons are a list of things that a user can do that are mundane or repetitive, these can save wear and tear on the old fingers. It has a GUI pop up calendar that can be invoked from the host and the date returned back to the host. The user can change the colors on the screen to match their preferences. Email addresses and http links are highlighted differently and can be clickable. You can create you our macros that can be run from a Button. We use triggers to change our screen colors depending on which account we are in. If anyone is interested in a screen shot of what can be done. Email me offline at [EMAIL PROTECTED] We are currently using Version 11.0.5 on both PCs and Citrix Servers. I am also in the process of testing 12.1 Beta. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Johnson Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 1:45 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: GUI as nice as character-based Dawn: Good luck in your search for this holy grail. Lemme know if such a silver bullet is found. I've been hunting for years. Mark Johnson Original Message - From: Dawn M. Wolthuis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 2:17 PM Subject: GUI as nice as character-based I haven't gotten through all of the postings in the GUI thread as yet, but am working on the question of how to write a GUI that is as good as a green screen from the perspective of folks currently using a green screen application. I saw hints at that, but nothing that tackled it from the standpoint of being able to use any tools on the market today to accomplish this (no need to retain databasic code, for example). What could be used to actually replace, completely, the character screens? Requirements: 0) work with U2 as multiuser databases 1) Be able to use any Windows, new Mac (unix) or Linux client 2) Have graphically attractive colorful screens, looking enough like standard GUIs (M$, in particular) that users would understand the use of icons, etc. 3) Respond to keystrokes by users -- not only to the click of a submit button 4) Require no preparation of the client computers in advance of using the software, likely directing user to a web page. 5) type ahead can be done so that the user is not waiting constantly for the computer to respond 6) Heads down data entry folks are as happy with this as they were with their green screens when they first got those and have only minor complaints if converting now from a green screen, none of substance What are the options -- who has written or seen such a GUI? --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI as nice as character-based
And as luck would have it, one of my recent clients uses Intuit Eclipse (without the GUI) so I just might get a look at that in the future (not to be confused with the IBM-ish Eclipse IDE container). Thanks, Jeff. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeff Schasny Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 2:21 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: GUI as nice as character-based My former employer Intuit Eclipse has successfully implemented a Java front end (Solar Eclipse... get it, Sun... Java... Solar, Arrgh) for their distribution ERP system. The nice part is that you can use any combibnation of GUI and character interface you like. For example, the guys in the warehouse can have old PC's with the Eclipse terminal emulator (which by the way allows a multi windowing charachter interface)installed while the accounting folks use the GUI or you can even run the terminal emulator for some things on the same PC as the Java GUI. This was all possible because the entire ERP system was VERY modular including a very smart INPUT routing used by every process requiring inputs from a user. Even so, the development of the java front end took over 2 years. -Original Message- From: Dawn M. Wolthuis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] I haven't gotten through all of the postings in the GUI thread as yet, but am working on the question of how to write a GUI that is as good as a green screen from the perspective of folks currently using a green screen application. I saw hints at that, but nothing that tackled it from the standpoint of being able to use any tools on the market today to accomplish this (no need to retain databasic code, for example). What could be used to actually replace, completely, the character screens? Requirements: 0) work with U2 as multiuser databases 1) Be able to use any Windows, new Mac (unix) or Linux client 2) Have graphically attractive colorful screens, looking enough like standard GUIs (M$, in particular) that users would understand the use of icons, etc. 3) Respond to keystrokes by users -- not only to the click of a submit button 4) Require no preparation of the client computers in advance of using the software, likely directing user to a web page. 5) type ahead can be done so that the user is not waiting constantly for the computer to respond 6) Heads down data entry folks are as happy with this as they were with their green screens when they first got those and have only minor complaints if converting now from a green screen, none of substance What are the options -- who has written or seen such a GUI? --dawn -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI as nice as character-based
Citrix and I don't get along -- too many bad memories trying to set up ODBC so that client machines ... anyway, I know that there are reasons that shops use it, just as there are reasons I hope not to have to touch the product again ;-) And I didn't intend for Java to be the only possible solution to fit the rules -- I just tried to be sure to rule out the V-word ;-) [Just a little joke there -- I actually think that Visage is likely an excellent choice for Microsoft-centric sites and I'm a Ross-fan myself, remember] Cheers! --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ross Ferris Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 7:21 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: GUI as nice as character-based Dawn, Citrix Server would break DLG (Dawn's Law of GUI) rule 4 anyway, as you would need to pre-install Citrix client software on most platforms. BTW Dawn, do you have a mathematic proof of DLG ? Just wondering, 'cause just like the Great Date Debate, many may be happy to 'bend' these rules because they don't apply to the environment they use ? For example, Citrix has MANY other advantages, especially in larger organizations, when it comes to issues like securing the desktop, and centralized updates etc. In Wyatt's case, he can simply install SmartTerm (oops, Windows only product, breaks rule 1 - hmm, but with Citrix his client 'can' be a Mac ?!!? Your proof could be 'interesting' ?!?!) onto his Server, and it then requires no pre-installation. He can have a link on a web page to download the Citrix client software does this 'break' your 'rules', or does it fit ? Of course Citrix Server/Terminal Server has an important place in larger enterprises, addressing issues like security, desktop lockdown, patch/update management, software distribution etc - which transcend DLG Also with your rule revision below, as with the original DLG, you still haven't included the J word, which I believe is an implicit (and understood) requirement for DLG !?! Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage - an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn M. Wolthuis Sent: Tuesday, 20 April 2004 5:14 AM To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: GUI as nice as character-based Ah, I should add or modify one of the requirements -- when I indicated that there needs to be no setup on the client, I should put that in the client tier and consider citrix servers to be application clients, of sorts. So, for my purposes (though not for everyone), a citrix server is not an option. 1. Client Tier (no setup) 2. Http Server Tier (could include app server, such as tomcat or EJB container such as Eclipse or WebSphere) 3. Database Server Tier I'll clarify the requirements to add no more tiers. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Buffington, Wyatt Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 1:57 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: GUI as nice as character-based We have been using a product called SmarTerm from Esker. It allows us to displays screen close to GUI that is easily configureable by the end user with little to no programming. It allows for HotSpots which appear as a button on the screen which the user can click on. Buttons are a list of things that a user can do that are mundane or repetitive, these can save wear and tear on the old fingers. It has a GUI pop up calendar that can be invoked from the host and the date returned back to the host. The user can change the colors on the screen to match their preferences. Email addresses and http links are highlighted differently and can be clickable. You can create you our macros that can be run from a Button. We use triggers to change our screen colors depending on which account we are in. If anyone is interested in a screen shot of what can be done. Email me offline at [EMAIL PROTECTED] We are currently using Version 11.0.5 on both PCs and Citrix Servers. I am also in the process of testing 12.1 Beta. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Johnson Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 1:45 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: GUI as nice as character-based Dawn: Good luck in your search for this holy grail. Lemme know if such a silver bullet is found. I've been hunting for years. Mark Johnson Original Message - From: Dawn M. Wolthuis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 2:17 PM Subject: GUI as nice as character-based I haven't gotten through all of the postings in the GUI thread as yet, but am working on the question of how to write a GUI that is as good as a green screen from the perspective of folks
RE: GUI from Mv code Re: Crystal Reports
Cube summary: In an MV implementation, a cube might be a file with a multipart key and each part of the key being a foreign key to another file. Additionally, instead of virtual fields for summing such numbers as total-sales-per-salesperson-per-quarter, the cube might actually store these sums just in case someone wants to see them then they do their online analytical processing (OLAP), for example. The most important aspects of a cube are the FACT table (that's the one with the multipart key), the DIMENSION tables (the ones the foreign keys point to) and the MEASURES (the values to be summed, counted, etc when slicing and dicing the data). RDBMS users often rehost their data in a data mart or warehouse using a star schema (the name for a fact and dimension table design) so they can report against the data. [And as an aside, PICK folks sometimes also port their data to a relational database so they can then make stars and put in an OLAP cube so they can then report against it as if it were multivalued data. We end up doing that due to a lack of standard reporting solutions other than the character-based MV query tools. That's why I promote such tools as Informer at www.entrinsik.com -- we could bypass a lot of steps if we don't buy into the relational mistakes -- couldn't resist the soapbox opportunity, sorry]. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Johnson Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 2:49 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: GUI from Mv code Re: Crystal Reports Not to be out of touch, but what is a Sales Cube. I saw Swordfish and I hope that itn't it. Thanks. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U2 Users Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 3:20 PM Subject: Re: GUI from Mv code Re: Crystal Reports In a message dated 4/18/2004 10:18:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: For example, aligning this back to the original post, rather than attempting to use CR for reporting, I'd simply create a Viságe.BIT cube to give the users free-form enquiry and data exploration facilities into their UV database. In our case we have replaced 300 sales analysis reports currently provided in our R5 system with a single Sales Cube - and this is one of the facilities that makes Viságe better than AccuTerm ! Warning! Salesman quote! C'mon Ross :) A dataset that includes 50 fields and I only want to see 6 on my report. So you replace that report with a cube where I (the user) have to figure out exactly what I want to see, build the proper query statement, format statement, display statement etc and then figure out how to tell the system to remember my statement so next time I don't have to THAT all again. You replaced the 300 reports, with one huge cube where you STILL have users recreating (or trying to) their original 300 reports... Users don't want to see 50 fields, they want to see the 6 fields they've been analyzing for the past 3 years ... Will -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: UniVerse vs Progress Performance
I'm curious if there is a follow up on this? Is it a database tuning issue? Indexing? Memory? ... Thanks. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of André Nel Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 3:07 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: FW: UniVerse vs Progress Performance Hi All Visited a neighbouring company (same line of business as ours) running 430 users on a Compaq Proliant box with SCO Openserver 5 and Progress version 9.1c as database. Application is in-house. At the time of my visit the CPU usage was constantly running at 80%. No problems being experienced with users complaining the system is slow etc. The server spec is as follows: 2x intel pentium III xeon 500Mhz processors 1.8GB RAM Smart Array 3200 controller Compaq Fast SCSI-2 controller 10x 18.2 GB Ultra SCSI-2 drives (8 drives are RAID 1, other 2 RAID 0) and 5 drives on Ultra 2 controller and 5 drives on Ultra 3 Controller 2x 10/100 Tx Ethernet controllers We are running AIX v5.1 with Maintainance Level 3 and UniVerse 10.0.7 (190 users) on a p620 box with the following specs: System Model: IBM,7025-6F1 Machine Serial Number: 6577ABA Processor Type: PowerPC_RS64-III Number Of Processors: 2 Processor Clock Speed: 602 MHz CPU Type: 64-bit Kernel Type: 32-bit LPAR Info: -1 NULL Memory Size: 4096 MB Good Memory Size: 4096 MB Paging 3072MB Firmware Version: IBM,M2P01208 Our box is struggling with the 190 users. File types are T30. All our lines are minimum 64K diginet. Comparing the 2 boxes, the amount of users on each box, any reason why we are struggling with the 190 users? The transaction volumes of the company running 430 users are considerably higher than ours? Any comments please Thanks André -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: u2ug.org
Yes, yes, you can chalk that up to us, the U2UG Board (of self-appointed volunteers) struggling with lots of work of late (including colorful and passionate discussions about forums). Given our unanticipated short-timeframe project with a need to migrate u2-users to a new platform, under new management by the end of this month, using only volunteer hardware, software, and personnel, we opted to keep the technical discussions to this u2-users list, rather than continuing discussions on the very new forums, thus retaining a single archive for folks to search, and many other reasons. The notice of the immediate removal of the technical forums was placed following discussion in our meeting yesterday and there were both technical and practical reasons for handling it that way. Apologies if the approach we took caused any problems. Feel free to chat in the other forums on u2ug.org. We're still green and in the launching phase of the U2UG organization, but stay tuned 'cause good things are happening and we'll be getting more information out to the community soon. Cheers! --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don Verhagen Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 1:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: u2ug.org I believe the U2UG.org is taking over the list as of May 1st. So not to double their efforts, they removed the forums. Don Verhagen. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11:51:34 AM 04/15/2004 Signed up for the Universe Forum at www.u2ug.org yesterday. Today without any prior notification it has the following notice: The following Technical Support forums have been removed: UniVerse UniData Redback SB+ External Interfaces These forums have been folded into the u2-users list . Please subscribe to the u2-users list where your questions can be posted. You can subscribe http://oliver.com/main/DiscussionLists.htmlhere. What's happening? Is u2ug available or not? Thanks, Denny Watkins Director Computer Services Morningside College 1501 Morningside Ave Sioux City, Ia 51106-1717 Phone: 1-712-274-5250 Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: The future of U2
Yes, an RDBMS is still a costly investment for any company and that won't change by front-ending it with what is otherwise bigger-bang-for-the-buck software. The way DB2 does constraint-handling, strong-typing, NULL-handling, etc are likely to be reasons to stick with what works and doesn't require additional staffing. Relational databases are the king of the hill now, but they are definitely more concerned about their rear view mirror than they have been in the past couple of decades and in that rear view mirror are some sights that would make me think twice before any investment in any SQL-based products. But, well, that's just an opinion. Smiles. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ross Ferris Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 6:57 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: The future of U2 Implementation wise, I think there are some right and wrong decisions that could be made. One of the biggies has to do with data typing, and the common practice multiply defining a field for different purposes - you know the drill - 1 might be a date, or a null, or some kind of flag. This would obviously have an impact on the ability to get at data with SQL - assuming that records aren't stored as blob/glob as some products do. The message in this I suppose is to make sure that your database is tight if you are looking at walking down this path and before you say we never do that, take a good, hard look at any temporary work files your application might use as an intermediate staging point !! Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage - an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn M. Wolthuis Sent: Thursday, 15 April 2004 3:30 AM To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: The future of U2 I don't know the answer to this, but the picture in my head would permit SQL against the DB2 structures directly, so I'm guessing that will help for anyone requiring SQL. More importantly for the future, it will be important that anyone using this model be able to use their DB2 data through the multivalue/XML-model U2 view of the data. It would be a shame to take the data that is in non-1NF, then implement it in a 1NF model (which they might not be doing since DB2 has some other possibilities?) and then extract it into a non-1NF format for web services, for example. Direct U2--XML would be much smarter, I would think. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Firl Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 10:27 AM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: The future of U2 Has any one heard any specifics about the implementation? I'd be interested in knowing whether or not Universe applications using DB2 as a data store will require setting up a Universe SQL schema. I'm supposing that it will... Tom Firl Columbia Ultimate -Original Message- From: Roger Glenfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 8:21 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: The future of U2 I believe the wording was DB2 and then others based on 'demand'. Roger -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ross Ferris Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 11:06 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: The future of U2 I'd also think that rather than any database, the target would be DB2 :-) Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage - an Evolution in Software Development http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.656 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 9/04/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.656 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 9/04/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Kansas City Regional User Group
Take a look at the announcement at www.u2ug.org regarding a desire to start a Kansas City area U2 Regional User Group (scroll down on the page to see it). Thanks. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: A proposal for extending the MV data structure
Interesting, Keith. By the way, Berkeley DB Java version just went to beta. I have been looking at how to write an application (using a services architecture) in Java where one could plug in either Berkeley DB or U2 and possibly jBASE or other PICK databases so that it would be database independent and SQL-independent. I certainly hadn't thought about creating a structure such as the one you suggest with the use of the sleepcat databases (Berkeley DB and its siblings), and I'll have to read your suggestion more carefully in the future. I'm surprised you have actually been reading my not-exactly-well-accepted contributions to CDT. I've been on the road for a few weeks and needed to be quiet for a while anyway, but I have several more topics to run past the theory crowd in spite of having to accept the comments about how I must be an idiot ;-) CDT is not nearly as well behaved as u2-users or CDP, for example. As for the u2-users list going away -- it is merely taking a slight turn on its path as you can see by Chuck's (Results) recent e-mail to the group. Onward! --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jan Shaw and Keith Johnson Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 7:35 PM To: u2-users Subject: A proposal for extending the MV data structure Since the list will be closing soon, I thought I'd put up for discussion an idea a friend and I had back in 2000. I put it here partly as a thought provoker, and partly so it doesn't get lost. I had it on Microsoft's community groups, but it never got any traffic so died a death. (By the way, my Outlook spelling check wanted to change Microsoft's to Microfossil's) I'm adding my original stuff to the bottom of this message, and I extended the idea in some thoughts I put up at http://emeraldglenlodge.co.nz/superpick.html. Part of the extension was to point out that if the marks (like attribute marks) were changed to be 9C-9F then there wouldn't be a clash with the characters used in the internet. Even using 0C-0F would work better. Interestingly, having followed the recent threads Dawn has engaged in at comp.databases.theory, I have retreated a bit from my original position. When you think about it, the fact we have (in general) only one level of data 'nesting' means that we don't get a heirachical structure that is difficult to understand as a single conceptual thang. Codd's original paper drew back from having relations within relations, maybe because he didn't consider the Pick idea of limiting the depth of this structure? Anyway, following is the original idea (although maybe calling it SuperPick was a conceit - I could be modest and follow established precedent and call it Johnson) Regards, Keith. SuperPick Copyright Keith Johnson 2000 Background My experience has been as an application programmer using Pick-type databases. Within these all data is represented as an ASCII string using delimiters to separate fields. Pick allows three levels of fields called attributes, values, and sub-values using characters 254, 253 and 252 as the respective delimiters. I was seeking a method of storing data which would be similar, but which could cope with a theoretically unlimited nested structure. This structure would work well for the sort of data I see in my work - names, dates, addresses, money, product codes, etc. It would also convert easily to an XML form, which I see as the coming data interchange format. My colleague Ron Knox, one day came up with the idea that 'brackets' would allow for nesting of any depth. We refined this idea over time into a data structure one that Ron has called Noble (as in, it's not base!). SuperPick is Noble with a data map concept added which allows the data to be easily converted to XML. Considering XML XML itself is interesting and I could see in it Pick-like things, such as repeating fields, but it annoys me to see the verbosity associated with the tag mechanism. In Pick, one describes fields by their position within the record that is, by counting delimiters. From my experience with Pick, parsing out fields for manipulation does not have an adverse effect on performance as long as you try to avoid extremely long strings, and actively code to avoid re-parsing long strings as much as possible. XML, being verbose, would be more vulnerable to that sort of performance problem. The mechanism required to pull a field out of XML is more complex than delimiter counting, as it has to match the tag strings surrounding the field. This is more difficult than it sounds, because tags do not have to be unique. Format of example Described below is a mechanism for storing data - SuperPick . Under this mechanism there is there is the data itself, and a map. Unlike Pick, the map is required. Both map and data are stored as text strings with four special characters
On learning to swim (u2-users U2UG)
To the u2-users community -- I have been on the road and have not read all of the e-mail related to u2-users going away but did have an exchange with Clif after reading his message. Just so it is perfectly clear -- the U2UG did not in any way suggest or encourage u2-users ending -- quite the opposite. Clif had to move the list to another server a few months ago and he asked if there was a chance that the U2UG could take it on at that time and we all voted him in for life, or as long as he was willing and able to continue in his efforts with the list. I suspect that Clif thought he might just lighten his load if he taught us to swim by pushing us into the waters, even if we had no prior intent to learn to swim. In any case, Clif is on the U2UG Board for the emerging U2UG and we have a conference call scheduled for tomorrow (Wednesday) at which we will discuss options. Given that we are all grateful for the work that Clif has done, we don't want to hurt him while we twist his arm, but we definitely do not want to lose the u2-users community. So, we will take the input from the list (so feel free to keep writing on the subject and give us any advice you can) and put our heads together tomorrow and let you know shortly thereafter how we think we can address the requirement from Clif that he be able to end his much appreciated run as the moderator and host for the list. I'll plan to be back in my office towards the end of this week and Clif has indicated that he will not just pull the plug if we don't have a smooth transition to whatever-comes-next for the u2 community by April 1. Apologies for not having any transition plan, but that is the nature of the throw them in the water so they will learn to swim approach that Clif adopted (which, quite frankly, is the ONLY way anyone was going to let him out of his work with the u2-users list, so I can understand the strategy, but YIKES -- we will do what we can not to drown!) Cheers. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Chair of the so-far-still-self-appointed emerging U2UG Board -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: [UV] Would anyone be interested in UV based bible software?
Nick Hengeveld wrote a program called the Bible Gateway while he was working for me at Calvin College -- I'm guessing more than a decade ago. I believe it is still maintained at www.gospelcom.net (it is not mv-based). I didn't check before passing along this URL but take a look and I suspect it is still there. Rev Fun is there too -- Nick's brother, Max, who was a student employee, writes those. Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Johnson Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:41 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: [UV] Would anyone be interested in UV based bible software? Aren't there bible applications already written. I don't know of them but i've heard of them as they can quickly cross reference passages and named references. - Original Message - From: Glenn W. Paschal [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 11:03 PM Subject: [UV] Would anyone be interested in UV based bible software? I am working on a bible application for my personal use. If anyone else would be interested in this type application, let me know. I would welcome the inputs and ideas on what it should be capable of. Thanks, Glenn W. Paschal PasTech LLC Computer Consulting ph. (931) 526-9631 fx. (931) 526-9678 email. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] web. http://www.pastech.net/ www.pastech.net -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: My apologies
You are permitted to be human and speak with tongue in cheek at times too, even if you are an IBM employee, Wally. I suspect that most of us would MUCH PREFER to have IBM employees feel free to speak up and not think they have to be politically correct or run every word past a corporate marketing person or whatever. So, not to worry and thanks for engaging in the conversation. smiles. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wally Terhune Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:28 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: My apologies Please accept my apologies for an inappropriate comment regarding U2 maintenance issues. What I should have said was something along the lines of - 'might it not be best to take this discussion to the non-technical U2 list'. Best regards, Wally Terhune Manager - U2 Advanced Technical Support IBM Data Management Solutions Tel: 303.294.4866 Fax: 303.294.4832 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ibm.com/software/data/u2/support - Open, Query, Update, Search - Online! -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: [OT] Making Linux bootable CD
This might not be helpful, Martin, but in case it is, here are the details of how I would do it: 1) Find a college student who is running linux and has a cd writer 2) Have them make the CD's 3) Buy them a pizza I'm sure there are other methods that would work as well, but this is my preferred approach to such problems. Cheers! --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Martin Phillips Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 11:12 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Making Linux bootable CD OK, I give up. Someone out there must have done this and have the answer I need to set up a new Linux system. I have downloaded the five RedHat 8.0 .iso CD image files. I now need to make a set of bootable CDs. Everything on the RedHat web site starts from the assumption that your CD writer is on a running Linux system. Mine isn't. It's on a Windows 2000 system. I have Roxio Easy CD Creator 5 which has an option to write bootable CDs. RedHat suggest using cdrecord. This in turn requires CygWin. I downloaded this but the instructions don't work because the commands they use aren't there. I want to do the job with my existing Easy CD software. I have spent the entire day trying to do this. I will be forever grateful to anyone who can email me the steps to make these CDs. Unless you think it is worth publishing to the whole group, please email it to [EMAIL PROTECTED] to reduce off topic mailings. Martin Phillips Ladybridge Systems 17b Coldstream Lane, Hardingstone, Northampton NN4 6DB +44-(0)1604-709200 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: [OT] Pr1me Hardware question
Thanks, Mark. I actually did solder pins, crawl through ceilings, thread the tape drives by hand, etc, but I enjoy computer hardware as much as I enjoy car engines (not at all) except as props for related stories. I got the gig because I recently moved to a city of 7,000 with lots of cows pigs and also a small college. There are not a lot of special guest speakers for the CS club at the college among the pigs and cows. It isn't going to be a history lesson, but a discussion about the seams in the fabric of our systems (quoting Gates from his seamless computing speech at comdex last year). I'll look at how these seams changed in going to the network is the computer infrastructure. But I'll carry with me a portable disk pack, this board, and my Pr1me Oracle 9-track tape 'cause I can weave in some fine stories. Smiles. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Johnson Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 9:25 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: [OT] Pr1me Hardware question My guess is that it is a Serial Port Controller Board. I used to know what all the Royale/Reality/Sequel boards were. NIC's surely saves a lot of space now. my 1 cent. P.S. Howja get a gig like that. Is it the History Channel aspect of the CS program. I and i'm sure others could talk hours on the hardware issues we had to deal with. My favorite exercise was having to put my finger against the 1/2 inch tapehead of the open reel-to-reel Microdatas when reading tapes from one system to another. The tape would stream back and forth trying to catch its parity until just enough pressure by my fingers would cause those 8 tracks (not to be confused with 8-tracks) to line up. Jurrasic Pick at its best. Then along came Cipher drives and i put my fingers to better use. My oldest piece of nostalgia is a 1972 Microdata manual pre-Pick. It was a process controller looking for something to do. - Original Message - From: Dawn M. Wolthuis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 10:00 PM Subject: [OT] Pr1me Hardware question I'm doing a talk tomorrow to college CS majors (name of talk is: IT is How it Seams -- at least I'm able to entertain myself with the double double meaning) I thought I'd bring in some of the odds and ends I've acquired over the years and one is a board from a Pr1me computer I worked on. It was gifted to me when the machine was retired. However, I'm a s/w kinda guy and I don't know a cpu board from a memory board from anything else. I figured this was the best place to ask about prime hardware, but sorry for being a little off-topic. It is an 18 inch-ish square green board with black chips and few white ones that say Bechman on them. The black ones are at least three different sizes. Along one side it has stickers that say LINES 0-3 ... LINES 12-15. That seems like a big clue, but I figured someone here would know what such a board might have been called. Thanks in advance. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Distributing U2 files
I have a set of small UniData files that I would like folks to be able to receive via e-mail and then install. The requirements are: 1) OS can be most flavors of Windows or UNIX 2) DB can be UniData or Universe 3) I would like to have a single zipped up file for distribution, but if two or more are best, I'd like to know that 4) assume there is only a windows server available for the packaging function (no unix box available for that task) 5) the user should need to do almost nothing to be able to get to the point where they can type LIST filename for these files and have them work at the command prompt. Thanks in advance for your suggestions. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: Distributing U2 files
O bother ... I clicked before asking my other question ... If I create the files in UniData instead of Universe, what should the CREATE-FILE statement look like or is it important to make them type 19 Universe files? Can the same paragraph to alter them to dynamic work in both UV and UDT or not (I'm not very UV-savvy)? Thanks. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeff Schasny Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 12:04 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: Distributing U2 files O bother... I forgot. Install procedure 4.5: Create Voc pointers (or send along a process to create them) -Original Message- From: Jeff Schasny [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 10:59 AM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: Distributing U2 files 1) Make your source files Universe type 19s (eliminate the whole fnuxi thing) 2) Gzip them all up along with a paragraph to be placed in the voc file to resize them to whatever filetype you prefer (I'd go with dynamic for anything other than source code files, but thats just me). Installation procedure would then be: 1) download the gzip file 2) ungzip into an existing Uni* directory 3) copy the paragraph to the VOC file 4) execute the paragraph 5) dance joyously -Original Message- I have a set of small UniData files that I would like folks to be able to receive via e-mail and then install. The requirements are: 1) OS can be most flavors of Windows or UNIX 2) DB can be UniData or Universe 3) I would like to have a single zipped up file for distribution, but if two or more are best, I'd like to know that 4) assume there is only a windows server available for the packaging function (no unix box available for that task) 5) the user should need to do almost nothing to be able to get to the point where they can type LIST filename for these files and have them work at the command prompt. Thanks in advance for your suggestions. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: Face-to-Face U2 gathering
Rats -- Spectrum coincides with the Datatel User Group conference this year. So, if you happen to be going to DUG in DC rather than Spectrum in LV, please let me know you are a u2-users member if you see me working in the Entrinsik (Informer) booth or find me sitting next to the lobby in need of a beverage (just kiddin'). By the way, there is a lot in the works with the International U2UG, and we hope to communicate to the members soon -- we have been vewy qwiet of late, but have been meeting bi-weekly by phone, including IBM. Stay tuned. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Results Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 5:55 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Face-to-Face U2 gathering Tuesday, March 16th, at the Spectrum show, we will be having an informal get together at 5:00 PM. We'll all meet in the Exhibit Hall at the Key Ally table (right near the door, across from IBM) as the exhibits break for the evening. Unfortunately, we can not fund dinner (this time) but we'd like to see who we can get together from the list and share a meal. You don't have to register, but I'd like you to e-mail me in advance, if you can - I'd like to get a rough head count for when we scout restaurants. (Include any food restrictions.) - Charles 'Table for 150, Please Barouch -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: [ADMIN] Why multiple digests, and a lecture on Netetiquette
Cool, saving bits - most of us over 40 grew up doing that ;-) -dawn PS Video attachment omitted -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: [ot] Peoplesoft migrates to Ascential
Great post, Ray -- a few excerpts with questions below. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ray Wurlod Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 3:29 AM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: [ot] Peoplesoft migrates to Ascential snip When Informix, by that time controlled by the ex-Ardent board (and that's an interesting story in itself!), sold their databases to IBM, arrangements were put in place that both companies would begin from the same base, but development would occur separately as the separate products' requirements dictated. (dawn) Yes, I have wondered how the Ardent folks seemed to gain so much control within Informix, so I'd love to hear that story if you are inclined able to fill us in. snip There have been two major releases of DataStage since UniVerse was sold to IBM, versions 6.0 and 7.0. Version 7.1 is due out in a couple of months. It is still recognizably UniVerse under the covers, though there are rumours that a new Engine is under development. We have already seen the beginnings of the likely direction for this in version 7.0, in which there is a component (interlude?) in Orchestrate that allows BASIC code to be executed, by loading the run machine. I suspect (personal opinion/educated guess only) that the new DataStage Engine will not be obviously UniVerse-based, but will continue to be able to do many of the things that UniVerse can do, but not all, and quite a few that UniVerse can't do. (dawn) While it would be accurate currently to add Ascential as a company that has a PICK product dedicated to their application, it sounds like you are suggesting that perhaps after the next release(s) there really will not be any PICK-like component of DataStage? I'm trying to keep as accurate a family tree for PICK as I can, so at the point where the daughter-of-UV component is gone, I'm hoping that you and others will make noise on this list to let us know. snip It is to be hoped that the DataStage engineers (some of whom are ex UniVerse) and the IBM U2 engineers continue to exchange ideas. Ultimately, however, it is not engineers who decide product directions. Recall the Golgafrinchan B Ark. snip (dawn) Nope, that doesn't ring any bells, but sounds like another story, so do tell ... Cheers! --dawn ___ u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: Converting between Java/UniData dates
Why in the world did that do that? Is it in WebAdvisor? So, in the Datatel Colleague and Benefactor products there are hundreds if not thousands of PICK dates and exactly 1 Java date stored? I guess the good thing about standards is that everyone can come up with their own, eh? Smiles. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wendy Smoak Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 5:28 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Converting between Java/UniData dates Datatel has stored an internal Java date in a database field. Would anyone like to take up the challenge of writing a UniBasic utility to convert between that and UniData internal date format, and then OCONV the result? http://www.pickwiki.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OpenQuestions They provide a DATE.CONVERT utility that converts between internal/external format at the colon prompt. Perhaps a subroutine that could be used in an I-Descriptor would be useful here, so you can get a human-readable date from the Java internal date. -- Wendy Smoak Application Systems Analyst, Sr. ASU IA Information Resources Management ___ u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
