RE: [DISCUSS] Graduation

[Hayashi, Daiyu]

Greetings,

I would agree with James about a good set of how to guides around a simple set 
of hardware. Make it a VCL for dummies guide which goes step by step. Break it 
into pieces, maybe a YouTube video series. Maybe the whole environment could be 
done in a virtual sandbox environment.

This may sound blunt and apologize in advance but I've had other local 
university and college groups say that it is difficult to setup due to the lack 
of documentation, "holes" in the documentation and lack of examples and I agree 
with them.

Daiyu Hayashi
Lead Information Technology Consultant
Mihaylo College of Business and Economics
Cal State University Fullerton
657-278-7347

-Original Message-
From: James O'Dell [mailto:jod...@fullerton.edu] 
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 9:12 AM
To: vcl-user@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation

Hi,

I support graduation. The project has a good group of supporters, and has 
demonstrated continued growth over time. It's a stable project, and should 
graduate.

In the future, I hope it becomes easier to install and maintain (i.e. yum 
package management). I've been looking into what it would take to post it to 
EPEL. After graduation, this seems like a natural progression.

Also, after meeting with representatives from other campuses, I found that they 
really had a problem configuring VCL the first time (Most of the off campus 
calls I receive about VCL were asking for help configuring VCL. In particular, 
what equipment to use, how to setup DHCP, how to configure Shibboleth, how to 
make it work under windows - as for the last one, please don't!).
If there had been some examples of actual equipment configurations, and some 
screen shots of configuration pages, it would have been nice.

IMHO, it think it would be helpful to setup a demo system on the VCL website.
Just to help people who haven't had any exposure to VCL get an idea what to 
expect. From what I've experienced, people want to compare it to things like 
Citrix, but give up because they have trouble setting up a test bed.

Just my 2 cents worth,

__Jim O'Dell

On 5/1/2012 9:44 AM, Andy Kurth wrote:
> This thread is to discuss whether the Apache VCL community feels that 
> this incubating project is ready to proceed with the process to 
> graduate to a top level ASF project.  There are several requirements
> which must be met and steps completed in order to graduate.   This
> discussion thread is the first step towards graduation.  Please review 
> the following pages.
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Graduati
> ng+from+the+Incubator
>
> There are many items described in the ASF graduation documentation 
> which we have obviously satisfied (create a release, etc).  The 
> following are issues that I feel either need to be addressed, would be 
> concerned about regarding board/mentor approval, or have been brought 
> up before.  Please share your thoughts.  Also, please review the ASF 
> graduation documentation and bring up anything else which might be a 
> concern.
>
> Status File:
> (https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/content/proje
> cts/vcl.xml) This is not up to date and is missing information.  
> Previous board reports need to be added.  News items need to be added 
> containing the string "new committer".  Doing this will cause the 
> numberCommittersNew column on the "Status of the Clutch" page to turn 
> green (http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html).
>
> Also, the list of commiters in the status file and project page hasn't 
> changed since Apache VCL started.  The new committers obviously need 
> to be added.  I'm not sure how the original list was decided upon, but 
> I feel several names should be removed since they have not contributed 
> any code and some have not been involved in the community at all.  I 
> think the list should be Aaron Coburn, David Hutchins, Andy Kurth, 
> James O'Dell, Aaron Peeler, Josh Thompson.  Also, Brian Bouterse 
> contributed some code a while ago.  I'm not sure if he is still 
> interested in being a committer.
>
> Diversity:
> ASF requirement: "The project is not highly dependent on any single 
> contributor (there are at least 3 legally independent committers and 
> there is no single company or entity that is vital to the success of 
> the project)."
> This issue has been raised before.  I feel we meet this requirement 
> and that the community is generally diverse, can govern itself, and be 
> self-sufficient.
>
> Website:
> This is not necessarily a requirement for graduation but I feel that 
> it should be addressed prior to graduation.  Our website/documentation 
> is pretty rough and really should be redesigned.  I'm guessing the 
> board members will look at it prior to voting.  In addition, there 
> will likely be a press release if/when we graduate and website views 
> will spike.  This shouldn't hold up the graduation process, but I 

Re: Windows 2000 Images

[Mike Haudenschild]

Hi Al,

With the Windows 2000 image, I'd first try using the XP selection in vcld
--setup.

Regarding pulling the unpatched XP image, could you please post your
/var/log/vcld.log to the list for a failed image pull?  I've pulled XP
images with the firewall disabled before and haven't had any troubles.  The
Cygwin service-not-starting bit is interesting.

Regards,
Mike

--
*Mike Haudenschild*
Education Systems Manager
Longsight Group
(740) 599-5005 x809
m...@longsight.com
www.longsight.com



On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 4:58 PM, Evelio Quiros  wrote:

>  Hello,
>
>  I would like to use VCL to deploy Windows 2000 images. The choices for
> the vcld –setup only present newer windows systems (XP, Win2k3, 7)
>
>  Is it possible to use vcl to deploy old systems like Windows 2000 ?
>
>  Also, I have some difficulty capturing an out-of-the-box Windows XP
> (unpatched, no updates, no service packs, no windows firewall).
> This is for a class in hacking, so we needed to deploy some vulnerable
> systems to attack.
>
>  The Cygwin configuration script wants to configure the windows firewall,
> which is not installed.
> I commented that part out of the script, but the SSH service does not
> start automatically.
> When I force the SSH service on, the image capture fails soon after.
>
>  Any way to get these unusual systems on VCL ?
>
>  Thanks,
> Al Quiros
> Florida International University
>

Windows 2000 Images

[Evelio Quiros]

Hello,

I would like to use VCL to deploy Windows 2000 images. The choices for the vcld 
–setup only present newer windows systems (XP, Win2k3, 7)

Is it possible to use vcl to deploy old systems like Windows 2000 ?

Also, I have some difficulty capturing an out-of-the-box Windows XP (unpatched, 
no updates, no service packs, no windows firewall).
This is for a class in hacking, so we needed to deploy some vulnerable systems 
to attack.

The Cygwin configuration script wants to configure the windows firewall, which 
is not installed.
I commented that part out of the script, but the SSH service does not start 
automatically.
When I force the SSH service on, the image capture fails soon after.

Any way to get these unusual systems on VCL ?

Thanks,
Al Quiros
Florida International University

RE: Issues with VCL

[n . johnson10]

Thanks for the information.

I found out that SELinux on CentOS was causing the dojo scripts to not load on 
the pages and after I temporarily disabled SELinux using the 'setenforce 0' 
command everything seems to work.   

I don't know of a permanent solution to this issue besides disabling SELinux.   
I also recall an issue with SELinux causing connection issues with mysql at the 
beginning of the VCL installation.

Here are the commands I used to install dojo (for reference purposes)

cd ~

wget http://download.dojotoolkit.org/release-1.6.0/dojo-release-1.6.0.tar.gz

tar xvf dojo-release-1.6.0.tar.gz

mv dojo-release-1.6.0 /var/www/html/vcl/dojo

--

I also have a question about SSH.  When I use the command to manually SSH into 
the VMware ESXI server I get a passphrase prompt, but I can skip that by 
hitting enter, however, I then get a prompt for the root password of the ESXI 
server and I thought the purpose of creating the SSH Key was to bypass the 
password prompt?  If so, I must have failed to perform a step properly.  

Any suggestions on what could be the cause?

From: Josh Thompson [josh_thomp...@ncsu.edu]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 9:17 AM
To: vcl-user@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Issues with VCL

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Saturday, April 28, 2012 11:28:22 PM n.johnson10 wrote:
> Now I am encountering an issue with 2.3...  When I visit a page that uses
> Dojo it will produce a javascript error " 'Dojo' is undefined. " and cause
> any scripts on the page to not load.   I installed Dojo Toolkit 1.5.0 to
> /var/www/html/dojo ..   I noticed when viewing the page source that there
> is javascript links to files that don't exist...  Eg: vclManageGroups.js ..
>  I have done some searching and I couldn't find anything that would explain
> why the file is missing.

The files that don't exist are custom compiled dojo profiles for VCL.  You can
run without them.  If dojo doesn't find them, it loads everything out of the
normal install.  Having them greatly reduces the number of dojo files that
need to be loaded on each page load.

Dojo is not saved in trunk in our subversion repository.  It is included in
releases; so, you won't have to worry about anything with dojo when you use a
release.

In general, we don't recommend running from trunk unless you are very familiar
with VCL.  It is never guaranteed to be stable.  Additionally, there may be
parts of the frontend, backend, and database that are not in sync with each
other except around release time (which happens to be now).

Josh
- --
- ---
Josh Thompson
VCL Developer
North Carolina State University

my GPG/PGP key can be found at pgp.mit.edu

All electronic mail messages in connection with State business which
are sent to or received by this account are subject to the NC Public
Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAk+euy8ACgkQV/LQcNdtPQNA2ACcDwLCWUG4z6zJlyHjI6z0YWPU
Yf8An1ogLTU2iWfjO4pcUL/315iCldr1
=VY/m
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: Rework the Apache VCL website?

[Aaron Coburn]

On May 4, 2012, at 1:00 PM, Andy Kurth wrote:

> On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 10:46 AM, Aaron Coburn  wrote:
>> As for the website, I agree that some design work would be really useful. I
>> am assuming that ASF would provide a hosting arrangement, i.e. a domain like
>> vcl.apache.org? Would that also include server space to run any type of CMS?
> 
> Yes, ASF hosts all project websites and provides server space.
> If/when we graduate, the podling website will be moved to
> vcl.apache.org.  Apache provides a CMS but it is up to the community
> whether to use it or something else as long as the content is static.
> More info is here:
> http://www.apache.org/dev/project-site.html
> -and-
> http://www.apache.org/dev/cms.html

Thanks, I read about Apache's CMS, and I don't see any compelling reason not to 
use that. It supports both HTML and Markdown formats. Updates are managed by 
subversion, and it seems like it will be easy to use. 

Aaron Coburn



>> Confluence is a nice all-in-one package, though if you are considering a
>> complete overhaul of the site, I could also recommend a system like Drupal
>> (MySQL + PHP). Drupal has a lot of bells and whistles that can make for a
>> very nice, highly interactive site. The downside of drupal is that it is not
>> specifically designed to handle software documentation. On the other hand,
>> if we only need to serve static html pages that focus on documentation, etc,
>> I can also recommend Sphinx. The downside of Sphinx is that it is really
>> best for Python and C++ projects, and it doesn't support web-based updates
>> -- it does create excellent sites, though.
> 
> I also like Drupal but don't think it can be used due to the static
> requirement.  We actually use this for NCSU's VCL front page.
> 
> I'm not familiar with Sphinx.  It looks like at least one other
> project is using Sphinx:
> http://chemistry.apache.org/python/docs/docs.html
> 
> -Andy
> 
> 
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 7:54 AM, Aaron Peeler  wrote:
>> Yes, I agree the site needs to be updated. I'm fine to move to ASF
>> CMS, especially if this the future direction.
>> 
>> Aaron
>> 
>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Andy Kurth  wrote:
>>> The Apache VCL project website (https://cwiki.apache.org/VCL) could
>>> use some improving.  It is automatically generated from the Confluence
>>> wiki site (https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/VCL/Apache+VCL).
>>>  I'm not sure exactly how this works but some things have never worked
>>> quite right... small details such as the left nav bar not showing up.
>>> 
>>> I'd like to start reworking the site and would like ideas/help from
>>> anyone interested.  The first step would be to decide on an underlying
>>> platform/CMS.  I have nothing against Confluence but the ASF is moving
>>> away from it in favor of the "ASF Content Management System".  More
>>> information is here:
>>> http://www.apache.org/dev/cms.html
>>> http://www.apache.org/dev/cmsref.html
>>> 
>>> Tools have been written to assist in migrating from Confluence to the
>>> ASF CMS.  See the bottom of the wiki page:
>>> http://wiki.apache.org/general/ApacheCms2010
>>> 
>>> At first glance this seems like a logical path to pursue.  Thoughts?
>>> 
>>> -Andy
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Aaron Peeler
>> Program Manager
>> Virtual Computing Lab
>> NC State University
>> 
>> All electronic mail messages in connection with State business which
>> are sent to or received by this account are subject to the NC Public
>> Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties.

Re: Rework the Apache VCL website?

[Andy Kurth]

On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 10:46 AM, Aaron Coburn  wrote:
> As for the website, I agree that some design work would be really useful. I
> am assuming that ASF would provide a hosting arrangement, i.e. a domain like
> vcl.apache.org? Would that also include server space to run any type of CMS?

Yes, ASF hosts all project websites and provides server space.
If/when we graduate, the podling website will be moved to
vcl.apache.org.  Apache provides a CMS but it is up to the community
whether to use it or something else as long as the content is static.
More info is here:
http://www.apache.org/dev/project-site.html
-and-
http://www.apache.org/dev/cms.html

> Confluence is a nice all-in-one package, though if you are considering a
> complete overhaul of the site, I could also recommend a system like Drupal
> (MySQL + PHP). Drupal has a lot of bells and whistles that can make for a
> very nice, highly interactive site. The downside of drupal is that it is not
> specifically designed to handle software documentation. On the other hand,
> if we only need to serve static html pages that focus on documentation, etc,
> I can also recommend Sphinx. The downside of Sphinx is that it is really
> best for Python and C++ projects, and it doesn't support web-based updates
> -- it does create excellent sites, though.

I also like Drupal but don't think it can be used due to the static
requirement.  We actually use this for NCSU's VCL front page.

I'm not familiar with Sphinx.  It looks like at least one other
project is using Sphinx:
http://chemistry.apache.org/python/docs/docs.html

-Andy


On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 7:54 AM, Aaron Peeler  wrote:
> Yes, I agree the site needs to be updated. I'm fine to move to ASF
> CMS, especially if this the future direction.
>
> Aaron
>
> On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Andy Kurth  wrote:
>> The Apache VCL project website (https://cwiki.apache.org/VCL) could
>> use some improving.  It is automatically generated from the Confluence
>> wiki site (https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/VCL/Apache+VCL).
>>  I'm not sure exactly how this works but some things have never worked
>> quite right... small details such as the left nav bar not showing up.
>>
>> I'd like to start reworking the site and would like ideas/help from
>> anyone interested.  The first step would be to decide on an underlying
>> platform/CMS.  I have nothing against Confluence but the ASF is moving
>> away from it in favor of the "ASF Content Management System".  More
>> information is here:
>> http://www.apache.org/dev/cms.html
>> http://www.apache.org/dev/cmsref.html
>>
>> Tools have been written to assist in migrating from Confluence to the
>> ASF CMS.  See the bottom of the wiki page:
>> http://wiki.apache.org/general/ApacheCms2010
>>
>> At first glance this seems like a logical path to pursue.  Thoughts?
>>
>> -Andy
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Aaron Peeler
> Program Manager
> Virtual Computing Lab
> NC State University
>
> All electronic mail messages in connection with State business which
> are sent to or received by this account are subject to the NC Public
> Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties.

Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation

[Andy Kurth]

Hi Aaron,
Thanks for the info.  I started a "Rework the Apache VCL website?"
thread a few months ago.  I'm going to reply in that thread regarding
the technical website details in order to keep this thread focused on
graduation issues.

As for the timeline, if the graduation process continues I'm guessing
we would shoot for acceptance at the June 20 or July 18 board meeting.
 If accepted, I'm not sure how long it will take to perform the
handover tasks 
(http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#life-after-graduation)
but I think the website should be updated by then.

-Andy

On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Aaron Coburn  wrote:
> I looked through a number of existing top-level ASF project websites, and 
> they all appear to be serving up static HTML pages. Some of them use a wiki 
> at http://wiki.apache.org/{project name}; otherwise, the sites appear to be 
> generated by some sort of script/template combination. If there is a choice, 
> I would recommend following this model: using static pages as much as 
> possible will effectively eliminate almost all security and maintenance 
> issues.
>
> Most ASF sites do not have a search feature, and those that do rely on third 
> parties (e.g. google). It would be easy enough to follow that model, though 
> if we use Sphinx, it has a built-in (javascript-based) search engine.
>
> There are a lot of template-based options for building sites, and I am 
> completely unfamiliar with most of them. Velocity is another ASF project, but 
> I have never worked with it. Several years ago I used Template::Toolkit quite 
> a bit, which is written in perl. Since so much of the VCL uses perl, this 
> might be a good option -- not that one actually needs to know perl to use it. 
> It would also be possible to use an XSLT-based engine, but I XSL syntax can 
> be very unforgiving. My current favorite is Sphinx, which relies on python to 
> generate the HTML.
>
> Aaron Coburn
>
>
>
> On May 4, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Aaron Peeler wrote:
>
>>>
>>> As for the website, I agree that some design work would be really useful. I
>>> am assuming that ASF would provide a hosting arrangement, i.e. a domain like
>>> vcl.apache.org? Would that also include server space to run any type of CMS?
>>> Confluence is a nice all-in-one package, though if you are considering a
>>> complete overhaul of the site, I could also recommend a system like Drupal
>>> (MySQL + PHP). Drupal has a lot of bells and whistles that can make for a
>>> very nice, highly interactive site. The downside of drupal is that it is not
>>> specifically designed to handle software documentation. On the other hand,
>>> if we only need to serve static html pages that focus on documentation, etc,
>>> I can also recommend Sphinx. The downside of Sphinx is that it is really
>>> best for Python and C++ projects, and it doesn't support web-based updates
>>> -- it does create excellent sites, though.
>>
>> I  believe we can run anything we like. ASF does provide the hosting
>> and the top-level projects do have their own url
>> .apache.org.
>>
>> I'm not up-to speed yet on what our options are or what the other
>> projects are using. The Apache infrastructure team is recommending
>> projects to migrate away from confluence. Has anyone else had a chance
>> to research which cms tools are available supported/recommended by
>> ASF?
>>
>>>
>>> I am also a little unclear on the timeframe for modifying the website -- it
>>> this something that would be done prior to graduation or upon graduation?
>>
>> I don't think it is a requirement, but ideally it would be nice to at
>> least have a start on a new site by graduation time.
>>
>>
>> Aaron Peeler
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation

[Aaron Coburn]

I looked through a number of existing top-level ASF project websites, and they 
all appear to be serving up static HTML pages. Some of them use a wiki at 
http://wiki.apache.org/{project name}; otherwise, the sites appear to be 
generated by some sort of script/template combination. If there is a choice, I 
would recommend following this model: using static pages as much as possible 
will effectively eliminate almost all security and maintenance issues.

Most ASF sites do not have a search feature, and those that do rely on third 
parties (e.g. google). It would be easy enough to follow that model, though if 
we use Sphinx, it has a built-in (javascript-based) search engine.

There are a lot of template-based options for building sites, and I am 
completely unfamiliar with most of them. Velocity is another ASF project, but I 
have never worked with it. Several years ago I used Template::Toolkit quite a 
bit, which is written in perl. Since so much of the VCL uses perl, this might 
be a good option -- not that one actually needs to know perl to use it. It 
would also be possible to use an XSLT-based engine, but I XSL syntax can be 
very unforgiving. My current favorite is Sphinx, which relies on python to 
generate the HTML. 

Aaron Coburn



On May 4, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Aaron Peeler wrote:

>> 
>> As for the website, I agree that some design work would be really useful. I
>> am assuming that ASF would provide a hosting arrangement, i.e. a domain like
>> vcl.apache.org? Would that also include server space to run any type of CMS?
>> Confluence is a nice all-in-one package, though if you are considering a
>> complete overhaul of the site, I could also recommend a system like Drupal
>> (MySQL + PHP). Drupal has a lot of bells and whistles that can make for a
>> very nice, highly interactive site. The downside of drupal is that it is not
>> specifically designed to handle software documentation. On the other hand,
>> if we only need to serve static html pages that focus on documentation, etc,
>> I can also recommend Sphinx. The downside of Sphinx is that it is really
>> best for Python and C++ projects, and it doesn't support web-based updates
>> -- it does create excellent sites, though.
> 
> I  believe we can run anything we like. ASF does provide the hosting
> and the top-level projects do have their own url
> .apache.org.
> 
> I'm not up-to speed yet on what our options are or what the other
> projects are using. The Apache infrastructure team is recommending
> projects to migrate away from confluence. Has anyone else had a chance
> to research which cms tools are available supported/recommended by
> ASF?
> 
>> 
>> I am also a little unclear on the timeframe for modifying the website -- it
>> this something that would be done prior to graduation or upon graduation?
> 
> I don't think it is a requirement, but ideally it would be nice to at
> least have a start on a new site by graduation time.
> 
> 
> Aaron Peeler

Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation

[James O'Dell]

Hi,

I support graduation. The project has a good group of supporters, and
has demonstrated continued growth over time. It's a stable project,
and should graduate.

In the future, I hope it becomes easier to install and maintain
(i.e. yum package management). I've been looking into what it would
take to post it to EPEL. After graduation, this seems like a
natural progression.

Also, after meeting with representatives from other campuses, I found that
they really had a problem configuring VCL the first time (Most of the
off campus
calls I receive about VCL were asking for help configuring VCL. In
particular,
what equipment to use, how to setup DHCP, how to configure Shibboleth,
how to make it work under windows - as for the last one, please don't!).
If there had been some examples of actual equipment configurations, and
some screen
shots of configuration pages, it would have been nice.

IMHO, it think it would be helpful to setup a demo system on the VCL
website.
Just to help people who haven't had any exposure to VCL get an idea
what to expect. From what I've experienced, people want to compare it to
things like Citrix, but give up because they have trouble setting up a
test bed.

Just my 2 cents worth,

__Jim O'Dell

On 5/1/2012 9:44 AM, Andy Kurth wrote:
> This thread is to discuss whether the Apache VCL community feels that
> this incubating project is ready to proceed with the process to
> graduate to a top level ASF project.  There are several requirements
> which must be met and steps completed in order to graduate.   This
> discussion thread is the first step towards graduation.  Please review
> the following pages.
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Graduating+from+the+Incubator
>
> There are many items described in the ASF graduation documentation
> which we have obviously satisfied (create a release, etc).  The
> following are issues that I feel either need to be addressed, would be
> concerned about regarding board/mentor approval, or have been brought
> up before.  Please share your thoughts.  Also, please review the ASF
> graduation documentation and bring up anything else which might be a
> concern.
>
> Status File:
> (https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/content/projects/vcl.xml)
> This is not up to date and is missing information.  Previous board
> reports need to be added.  News items need to be added containing the
> string "new committer".  Doing this will cause the numberCommittersNew
> column on the "Status of the Clutch" page to turn green
> (http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html).
>
> Also, the list of commiters in the status file and project page hasn't
> changed since Apache VCL started.  The new committers obviously need
> to be added.  I'm not sure how the original list was decided upon, but
> I feel several names should be removed since they have not contributed
> any code and some have not been involved in the community at all.  I
> think the list should be Aaron Coburn, David Hutchins, Andy Kurth,
> James O'Dell, Aaron Peeler, Josh Thompson.  Also, Brian Bouterse
> contributed some code a while ago.  I'm not sure if he is still
> interested in being a committer.
>
> Diversity:
> ASF requirement: "The project is not highly dependent on any single
> contributor (there are at least 3 legally independent committers and
> there is no single company or entity that is vital to the success of
> the project)."
> This issue has been raised before.  I feel we meet this requirement
> and that the community is generally diverse, can govern itself, and be
> self-sufficient.
>
> Website:
> This is not necessarily a requirement for graduation but I feel that
> it should be addressed prior to graduation.  Our website/documentation
> is pretty rough and really should be redesigned.  I'm guessing the
> board members will look at it prior to voting.  In addition, there
> will likely be a press release if/when we graduate and website views
> will spike.  This shouldn't hold up the graduation process, but I
> would like agreement that this should be completed by graduation.
>
> Thank You,
> Andy


-- 
Jim O'Dell
Network Analyst
California State University Fullerton
Email: jod...@fullerton.edu
Phone: (657) 278-2256

Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation

[Aaron Peeler]

>
> As for the website, I agree that some design work would be really useful. I
> am assuming that ASF would provide a hosting arrangement, i.e. a domain like
> vcl.apache.org? Would that also include server space to run any type of CMS?
> Confluence is a nice all-in-one package, though if you are considering a
> complete overhaul of the site, I could also recommend a system like Drupal
> (MySQL + PHP). Drupal has a lot of bells and whistles that can make for a
> very nice, highly interactive site. The downside of drupal is that it is not
> specifically designed to handle software documentation. On the other hand,
> if we only need to serve static html pages that focus on documentation, etc,
> I can also recommend Sphinx. The downside of Sphinx is that it is really
> best for Python and C++ projects, and it doesn't support web-based updates
> -- it does create excellent sites, though.

I  believe we can run anything we like. ASF does provide the hosting
and the top-level projects do have their own url
.apache.org.

I'm not up-to speed yet on what our options are or what the other
projects are using. The Apache infrastructure team is recommending
projects to migrate away from confluence. Has anyone else had a chance
to research which cms tools are available supported/recommended by
ASF?

>
> I am also a little unclear on the timeframe for modifying the website -- it
> this something that would be done prior to graduation or upon graduation?

I don't think it is a requirement, but ideally it would be nice to at
least have a start on a new site by graduation time.


Aaron Peeler

RE: [DISCUSS] Graduation

[Arthur Vandenberg]

I concur that VCL graduation is warranted. GSU has been running VCL for nearly 
two years.  The VCL community has been helpful to Georgia State in getting our 
VCL instance going and supported.

The related VCL discussions as well as the VCL Virtual Office Hours indicate, 
in my opinion, a strong and diverse community implementing, using and 
supporting VCL.

Graduation to next level is my vote.

Art


Art Vandenberg
Account Manager/Research Function
Customer Relations, IS&T
Information Systems & Technology
Georgia State University
avandenb...@gsu.edu
+1 404 413 4743
MS Information & Computer Science, Georgia Tech
MVA Painting & Drawing, Georgia State
Web page: http://www.gsu.edu/ist/acs/25735.html


From: Aaron Coburn [acob...@amherst.edu]
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 10:46 AM
To: ; 
Cc: 
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation

We began working with the VCL software about two years ago at Amherst College, 
and in that time, the community has grown well beyond its NCSU roots. I am 
seeing significantly more activity on the lists as well as more JIRA issues and 
contributed code from the wider community. I would also support a vote for 
graduation.

As for the website, I agree that some design work would be really useful. I am 
assuming that ASF would provide a hosting arrangement, i.e. a domain like 
vcl.apache.org? Would that also include server space to 
run any type of CMS? Confluence is a nice all-in-one package, though if you are 
considering a complete overhaul of the site, I could also recommend a system 
like Drupal (MySQL + PHP). Drupal has a lot of bells and whistles that can make 
for a very nice, highly interactive site. The downside of drupal is that it is 
not specifically designed to handle software documentation. On the other hand, 
if we only need to serve static html pages that focus on documentation, etc, I 
can also recommend Sphinx. The downside of Sphinx is that it is really best for 
Python and C++ projects, and it doesn't support web-based updates -- it does 
create excellent sites, though.

I am also a little unclear on the timeframe for modifying the website -- it 
this something that would be done prior to graduation or upon graduation?

Aaron Coburn



--
Aaron Coburn
Systems Administrator and Programmer
Academic Technology Services, Amherst College
acob...@amherst.edu






On May 2, 2012, at 9:14 AM, Aaron Peeler wrote:

I feel we have meet our diversity issue and also expect to add more
committers over the next couple of months. I would positively support
a vote for graduation.


I agree on the other points mentioned.

Status page needs to be updated. We can work on this part easily.

The web site needs to be migrated off confluence. Has anyone
researched other CMS options for the website. I think this would be a
good community discussion thread. Which CMS, the layout, (content,
documentation, design ideas, etc.)

Aaron


On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Andy Kurth 
mailto:andy_ku...@ncsu.edu>> wrote:
This thread is to discuss whether the Apache VCL community feels that
this incubating project is ready to proceed with the process to
graduate to a top level ASF project.  There are several requirements
which must be met and steps completed in order to graduate.   This
discussion thread is the first step towards graduation.  Please review
the following pages.
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Graduating+from+the+Incubator

There are many items described in the ASF graduation documentation
which we have obviously satisfied (create a release, etc).  The
following are issues that I feel either need to be addressed, would be
concerned about regarding board/mentor approval, or have been brought
up before.  Please share your thoughts.  Also, please review the ASF
graduation documentation and bring up anything else which might be a
concern.

Status File:
(https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/content/projects/vcl.xml)
This is not up to date and is missing information.  Previous board
reports need to be added.  News items need to be added containing the
string "new committer".  Doing this will cause the numberCommittersNew
column on the "Status of the Clutch" page to turn green
(http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html).

Also, the list of commiters in the status file and project page hasn't
changed since Apache VCL started.  The new committers obviously need
to be added.  I'm not sure how the original list was decided upon, but
I feel several names should be removed since they have not contributed
any code and some have not been involved in the community at all.  I
think the list should be Aaron Coburn, David Hutchins, Andy Kurth,
James O'Dell, Aaron Peeler, Josh Thompson.  Also, Brian Bouterse
contributed some code a while ago.  I'm not sure if he is still
interested in being a committer.

Diversity:
ASF req

Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation

[Aaron Coburn]

We began working with the VCL software about two years ago at Amherst College, 
and in that time, the community has grown well beyond its NCSU roots. I am 
seeing significantly more activity on the lists as well as more JIRA issues and 
contributed code from the wider community. I would also support a vote for 
graduation.

As for the website, I agree that some design work would be really useful. I am 
assuming that ASF would provide a hosting arrangement, i.e. a domain like 
vcl.apache.org? Would that also include server space to 
run any type of CMS? Confluence is a nice all-in-one package, though if you are 
considering a complete overhaul of the site, I could also recommend a system 
like Drupal (MySQL + PHP). Drupal has a lot of bells and whistles that can make 
for a very nice, highly interactive site. The downside of drupal is that it is 
not specifically designed to handle software documentation. On the other hand, 
if we only need to serve static html pages that focus on documentation, etc, I 
can also recommend Sphinx. The downside of Sphinx is that it is really best for 
Python and C++ projects, and it doesn't support web-based updates -- it does 
create excellent sites, though.

I am also a little unclear on the timeframe for modifying the website -- it 
this something that would be done prior to graduation or upon graduation?

Aaron Coburn



--
Aaron Coburn
Systems Administrator and Programmer
Academic Technology Services, Amherst College
acob...@amherst.edu






On May 2, 2012, at 9:14 AM, Aaron Peeler wrote:

I feel we have meet our diversity issue and also expect to add more
committers over the next couple of months. I would positively support
a vote for graduation.


I agree on the other points mentioned.

Status page needs to be updated. We can work on this part easily.

The web site needs to be migrated off confluence. Has anyone
researched other CMS options for the website. I think this would be a
good community discussion thread. Which CMS, the layout, (content,
documentation, design ideas, etc.)

Aaron


On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Andy Kurth 
mailto:andy_ku...@ncsu.edu>> wrote:
This thread is to discuss whether the Apache VCL community feels that
this incubating project is ready to proceed with the process to
graduate to a top level ASF project.  There are several requirements
which must be met and steps completed in order to graduate.   This
discussion thread is the first step towards graduation.  Please review
the following pages.
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Graduating+from+the+Incubator

There are many items described in the ASF graduation documentation
which we have obviously satisfied (create a release, etc).  The
following are issues that I feel either need to be addressed, would be
concerned about regarding board/mentor approval, or have been brought
up before.  Please share your thoughts.  Also, please review the ASF
graduation documentation and bring up anything else which might be a
concern.

Status File:
(https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/content/projects/vcl.xml)
This is not up to date and is missing information.  Previous board
reports need to be added.  News items need to be added containing the
string "new committer".  Doing this will cause the numberCommittersNew
column on the "Status of the Clutch" page to turn green
(http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html).

Also, the list of commiters in the status file and project page hasn't
changed since Apache VCL started.  The new committers obviously need
to be added.  I'm not sure how the original list was decided upon, but
I feel several names should be removed since they have not contributed
any code and some have not been involved in the community at all.  I
think the list should be Aaron Coburn, David Hutchins, Andy Kurth,
James O'Dell, Aaron Peeler, Josh Thompson.  Also, Brian Bouterse
contributed some code a while ago.  I'm not sure if he is still
interested in being a committer.

Diversity:
ASF requirement: "The project is not highly dependent on any single
contributor (there are at least 3 legally independent committers and
there is no single company or entity that is vital to the success of
the project)."
This issue has been raised before.  I feel we meet this requirement
and that the community is generally diverse, can govern itself, and be
self-sufficient.

Website:
This is not necessarily a requirement for graduation but I feel that
it should be addressed prior to graduation.  Our website/documentation
is pretty rough and really should be redesigned.  I'm guessing the
board members will look at it prior to voting.  In addition, there
will likely be a press release if/when we graduate and website views
will spike.  This shouldn't hold up the graduation process, but I
would like agreement that this should be completed by graduation.

Thank You,
Andy

RE: [DISCUSS] Graduation

[Waldron, Michael H]

I also support graduation. There has been consistent active development work 
and a good roadmap for future releases. There is an active community of users 
that have exchanged a lot of good ideas and provided assistance to the 
community in resolving problems associated with VCL.

It's a solid project and stable application which is getting increasing use at 
our institution and I foresee it continuing to grow in the future.

Mike Waldron
Systems Specialist
ITS Research Computing
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill


From: Aaron Peeler [aaron_pee...@ncsu.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 9:14 AM
To: vcl-user@incubator.apache.org; vcl-...@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation

I feel we have meet our diversity issue and also expect to add more
committers over the next couple of months. I would positively support
a vote for graduation.


I agree on the other points mentioned.

Status page needs to be updated. We can work on this part easily.

The web site needs to be migrated off confluence. Has anyone
researched other CMS options for the website. I think this would be a
good community discussion thread. Which CMS, the layout, (content,
documentation, design ideas, etc.)

Aaron


On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Andy Kurth  wrote:
> This thread is to discuss whether the Apache VCL community feels that
> this incubating project is ready to proceed with the process to
> graduate to a top level ASF project.  There are several requirements
> which must be met and steps completed in order to graduate.   This
> discussion thread is the first step towards graduation.  Please review
> the following pages.
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Graduating+from+the+Incubator
>
> There are many items described in the ASF graduation documentation
> which we have obviously satisfied (create a release, etc).  The
> following are issues that I feel either need to be addressed, would be
> concerned about regarding board/mentor approval, or have been brought
> up before.  Please share your thoughts.  Also, please review the ASF
> graduation documentation and bring up anything else which might be a
> concern.
>
> Status File:
> (https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/content/projects/vcl.xml)
> This is not up to date and is missing information.  Previous board
> reports need to be added.  News items need to be added containing the
> string "new committer".  Doing this will cause the numberCommittersNew
> column on the "Status of the Clutch" page to turn green
> (http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html).
>
> Also, the list of commiters in the status file and project page hasn't
> changed since Apache VCL started.  The new committers obviously need
> to be added.  I'm not sure how the original list was decided upon, but
> I feel several names should be removed since they have not contributed
> any code and some have not been involved in the community at all.  I
> think the list should be Aaron Coburn, David Hutchins, Andy Kurth,
> James O'Dell, Aaron Peeler, Josh Thompson.  Also, Brian Bouterse
> contributed some code a while ago.  I'm not sure if he is still
> interested in being a committer.
>
> Diversity:
> ASF requirement: "The project is not highly dependent on any single
> contributor (there are at least 3 legally independent committers and
> there is no single company or entity that is vital to the success of
> the project)."
> This issue has been raised before.  I feel we meet this requirement
> and that the community is generally diverse, can govern itself, and be
> self-sufficient.
>
> Website:
> This is not necessarily a requirement for graduation but I feel that
> it should be addressed prior to graduation.  Our website/documentation
> is pretty rough and really should be redesigned.  I'm guessing the
> board members will look at it prior to voting.  In addition, there
> will likely be a press release if/when we graduate and website views
> will spike.  This shouldn't hold up the graduation process, but I
> would like agreement that this should be completed by graduation.
>
> Thank You,
> Andy



--
Aaron Peeler
Program Manager
Virtual Computing Lab
NC State University

All electronic mail messages in connection with State business which
are sent to or received by this account are subject to the NC Public
Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties.