Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
I'm very sure Google has an accessibility number, but they also have a mailing list with actual TalkBack developers on it. Try speaking with the developers of Voiceover... On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 4:59 PM Anthony Vece <ajv...@gmail.com> wrote: > That's all well and good however; where do you get tech support if you get > stuck on something? With Apple you can call there accessibility hotline? > Can you call anyone for accessibility with the android device? Thank you > > > Sent from my Verizon iPhone 7!!! > > On Dec 16, 2016, at 9:00 PM, Devin Prater <r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Yes, I agree Christopher. Android is an option now. If someone doesn't > like where iOS is headed, switch to Android. That's not a snarky remark, > either. It's an invitation. > > On Fri, Dec 16, 2016, 6:47 PM Sieghard Weitzel <siegh...@live.ca> wrote: > > Not at all, Christopher, I am partial to iOS but I'm not an Apple fan boy > in any extreme way. I said that "there are other things I may not like > about Android. I want a > platform that is rock solid, secure, super accessible and which offers a > good feature set." > As you see I said "platform" I didn't say I want "iOS to be rock solid > etc.". Android maybe rock solid, I'm not using it so I can't say except for > what I hear from friends who have used it or are using it. Anyhow, that > wasn't my point, my point is that bitching in general about anything to > people who can't do anything about it typically doesn't have much of a > result and if it goes on too long it just ticks people off. I can complain > all day long about our government, but if I don't vote I am not > participating in an active way to change it. The same goes for any > software, if I don't report bugs, maybe even participate in public beta > programs and so on and all I do is complain to a group of people who > already know the problems I am not helping. It doesn't matter if that is > iOS, Android, Windows or whatever. > > Regards, > Sieghard > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On > Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain > Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 4:16 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet > > This is just my opinion, but Sieghard, you make it sound like Android is > not rock solid or secure, and that isn't how I feel. I do think Android and > Talk Back are rock solid. IMHO, maybe even more so than IOS and VoiceOver. > For what I use my phone for, I feel I run into fewer bugs on my S7 then I > do on my iPhone, but obviously a lot of this is dependent on how someone > uses their phone. > > I will grant that Android is not as secure as IOS, but I have yet to be > compromised. I run some anti-malware software on my S7, and I'm careful on > where I get apps. With this, I think Android is as secure as I need it to > be. I'm willing to put up with some of Android's warts in order to take > advantage of some of it's features, but obviously not everyone will be in > the same boat. > > I'm not trying to sell anyone on Android, and it definitely has some > issues that haven't been touched on in this thread. Apple and the iPhone > are great choices, but I really believe we have two good options here for > an accessible mobile platform, and it's great that people have this choice > and can take advantages of the strengths in each platform. > > On 16/12/16 16:25, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: > > Pablo and I guess Mario, > > > > > > > > I am only sending one more reply to this, after that any threads of > > that nature become subject to my delete key. > > > > I am not defending Apple at all and totally agree that they need to > > fix bugs and maintain the gold standard they set in accessibility. In > > fact, they have to maintain it not only in accessibility but also in > general. > > Steve Jobbs used to say "It just works" when he introduced some new > > device or feature and that is what people expect from Apple. I > > couldn't care less about the latest fancy features Android may have > > because there are other things I may not like about Android. I want a > > platform that is rock solid, secure, super accessible and which offers a > good feature set. > > > > Where you I think do not understand me is in what I am saying about > > posting these rants about how Apple needs to get their act together on > > this list. We are all blind or visually impaired on this list and want > > iOS to be perfect. If I met with a group of 25 blind iOS users in > > person once a month and each time I complained about how Apple
Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
That's all well and good however; where do you get tech support if you get stuck on something? With Apple you can call there accessibility hotline? Can you call anyone for accessibility with the android device? Thank you Sent from my Verizon iPhone 7!!! > On Dec 16, 2016, at 9:00 PM, Devin Prater <r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Yes, I agree Christopher. Android is an option now. If someone doesn't like > where iOS is headed, switch to Android. That's not a snarky remark, either. > It's an invitation. > >> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016, 6:47 PM Sieghard Weitzel <siegh...@live.ca> wrote: >> Not at all, Christopher, I am partial to iOS but I'm not an Apple fan boy in >> any extreme way. I said that "there are other things I may not like about >> Android. I want a >> platform that is rock solid, secure, super accessible and which offers a >> good feature set." >> As you see I said "platform" I didn't say I want "iOS to be rock solid >> etc.". Android maybe rock solid, I'm not using it so I can't say except for >> what I hear from friends who have used it or are using it. Anyhow, that >> wasn't my point, my point is that bitching in general about anything to >> people who can't do anything about it typically doesn't have much of a >> result and if it goes on too long it just ticks people off. I can complain >> all day long about our government, but if I don't vote I am not >> participating in an active way to change it. The same goes for any software, >> if I don't report bugs, maybe even participate in public beta programs and >> so on and all I do is complain to a group of people who already know the >> problems I am not helping. It doesn't matter if that is iOS, Android, >> Windows or whatever. >> >> Regards, >> Sieghard >> >> -Original Message- >> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf >> Of Christopher Chaltain >> Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 4:16 PM >> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet >> >> This is just my opinion, but Sieghard, you make it sound like Android is not >> rock solid or secure, and that isn't how I feel. I do think Android and Talk >> Back are rock solid. IMHO, maybe even more so than IOS and VoiceOver. For >> what I use my phone for, I feel I run into fewer bugs on my S7 then I do on >> my iPhone, but obviously a lot of this is dependent on how someone uses >> their phone. >> >> I will grant that Android is not as secure as IOS, but I have yet to be >> compromised. I run some anti-malware software on my S7, and I'm careful on >> where I get apps. With this, I think Android is as secure as I need it to >> be. I'm willing to put up with some of Android's warts in order to take >> advantage of some of it's features, but obviously not everyone will be in >> the same boat. >> >> I'm not trying to sell anyone on Android, and it definitely has some issues >> that haven't been touched on in this thread. Apple and the iPhone are great >> choices, but I really believe we have two good options here for an >> accessible mobile platform, and it's great that people have this choice and >> can take advantages of the strengths in each platform. >> >> On 16/12/16 16:25, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: >> > Pablo and I guess Mario, >> > >> > >> > >> > I am only sending one more reply to this, after that any threads of >> > that nature become subject to my delete key. >> > >> > I am not defending Apple at all and totally agree that they need to >> > fix bugs and maintain the gold standard they set in accessibility. In >> > fact, they have to maintain it not only in accessibility but also in >> > general. >> > Steve Jobbs used to say "It just works" when he introduced some new >> > device or feature and that is what people expect from Apple. I >> > couldn't care less about the latest fancy features Android may have >> > because there are other things I may not like about Android. I want a >> > platform that is rock solid, secure, super accessible and which offers a >> > good feature set. >> > >> > Where you I think do not understand me is in what I am saying about >> > posting these rants about how Apple needs to get their act together on >> > this list. We are all blind or visually impaired on this list and want >> > iOS to be perfect. If I met with a group of 25 blind iOS users in >> >
Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
Gotcha Sieghard, and I meant to say in my initial post that I totally agree with the point you're making. BTW, I don't think of you as an Apple fan boy. I think of you as a pretty reasonable guy, and I know you use and respect multiple platforms. On 16/12/16 18:47, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: Not at all, Christopher, I am partial to iOS but I'm not an Apple fan boy in any extreme way. I said that "there are other things I may not like about Android. I want a platform that is rock solid, secure, super accessible and which offers a good feature set." As you see I said "platform" I didn't say I want "iOS to be rock solid etc.". Android maybe rock solid, I'm not using it so I can't say except for what I hear from friends who have used it or are using it. Anyhow, that wasn't my point, my point is that bitching in general about anything to people who can't do anything about it typically doesn't have much of a result and if it goes on too long it just ticks people off. I can complain all day long about our government, but if I don't vote I am not participating in an active way to change it. The same goes for any software, if I don't report bugs, maybe even participate in public beta programs and so on and all I do is complain to a group of people who already know the problems I am not helping. It doesn't matter if that is iOS, Android, Windows or whatever. Regards, Sieghard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 4:16 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet This is just my opinion, but Sieghard, you make it sound like Android is not rock solid or secure, and that isn't how I feel. I do think Android and Talk Back are rock solid. IMHO, maybe even more so than IOS and VoiceOver. For what I use my phone for, I feel I run into fewer bugs on my S7 then I do on my iPhone, but obviously a lot of this is dependent on how someone uses their phone. I will grant that Android is not as secure as IOS, but I have yet to be compromised. I run some anti-malware software on my S7, and I'm careful on where I get apps. With this, I think Android is as secure as I need it to be. I'm willing to put up with some of Android's warts in order to take advantage of some of it's features, but obviously not everyone will be in the same boat. I'm not trying to sell anyone on Android, and it definitely has some issues that haven't been touched on in this thread. Apple and the iPhone are great choices, but I really believe we have two good options here for an accessible mobile platform, and it's great that people have this choice and can take advantages of the strengths in each platform. On 16/12/16 16:25, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: Pablo and I guess Mario, I am only sending one more reply to this, after that any threads of that nature become subject to my delete key. I am not defending Apple at all and totally agree that they need to fix bugs and maintain the gold standard they set in accessibility. In fact, they have to maintain it not only in accessibility but also in general. Steve Jobbs used to say "It just works" when he introduced some new device or feature and that is what people expect from Apple. I couldn't care less about the latest fancy features Android may have because there are other things I may not like about Android. I want a platform that is rock solid, secure, super accessible and which offers a good feature set. Where you I think do not understand me is in what I am saying about posting these rants about how Apple needs to get their act together on this list. We are all blind or visually impaired on this list and want iOS to be perfect. If I met with a group of 25 blind iOS users in person once a month and each time I complained about how Apple needs to fix their bugs that is not productive. I need to tell Apple Accessibility, you need to tell Apple Accessibility and every one of the 25 guys I am meeting in my hypothetical monthly get-together needs to tell Apple Accessibility. For this group this means we all need to email and/or call Apple Accessibility and tell them. Telling each other doesn't help, it's like if you have an arguement with a friend. You resolve it by having an open and honest discussion with your friend and not by telling another friend. Now, if I discover a bug and want to verify that it's a bug everybody experiences then I can of course post it to the list and get people's feedback, but I post what I discovered and describe the behaviour, I don't necessarily include a rant about how Apple should have never let this bug happen in the first place. Maybe you want feedback from a friend about how you should approach your other friend with whom you have the arguement and then it's OK to discuss it with your other friend, but you still need to go and h
Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
Yes, I agree Christopher. Android is an option now. If someone doesn't like where iOS is headed, switch to Android. That's not a snarky remark, either. It's an invitation. On Fri, Dec 16, 2016, 6:47 PM Sieghard Weitzel <siegh...@live.ca> wrote: > Not at all, Christopher, I am partial to iOS but I'm not an Apple fan boy > in any extreme way. I said that "there are other things I may not like > about Android. I want a > platform that is rock solid, secure, super accessible and which offers a > good feature set." > As you see I said "platform" I didn't say I want "iOS to be rock solid > etc.". Android maybe rock solid, I'm not using it so I can't say except for > what I hear from friends who have used it or are using it. Anyhow, that > wasn't my point, my point is that bitching in general about anything to > people who can't do anything about it typically doesn't have much of a > result and if it goes on too long it just ticks people off. I can complain > all day long about our government, but if I don't vote I am not > participating in an active way to change it. The same goes for any > software, if I don't report bugs, maybe even participate in public beta > programs and so on and all I do is complain to a group of people who > already know the problems I am not helping. It doesn't matter if that is > iOS, Android, Windows or whatever. > > Regards, > Sieghard > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On > Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain > Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 4:16 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet > > This is just my opinion, but Sieghard, you make it sound like Android is > not rock solid or secure, and that isn't how I feel. I do think Android and > Talk Back are rock solid. IMHO, maybe even more so than IOS and VoiceOver. > For what I use my phone for, I feel I run into fewer bugs on my S7 then I > do on my iPhone, but obviously a lot of this is dependent on how someone > uses their phone. > > I will grant that Android is not as secure as IOS, but I have yet to be > compromised. I run some anti-malware software on my S7, and I'm careful on > where I get apps. With this, I think Android is as secure as I need it to > be. I'm willing to put up with some of Android's warts in order to take > advantage of some of it's features, but obviously not everyone will be in > the same boat. > > I'm not trying to sell anyone on Android, and it definitely has some > issues that haven't been touched on in this thread. Apple and the iPhone > are great choices, but I really believe we have two good options here for > an accessible mobile platform, and it's great that people have this choice > and can take advantages of the strengths in each platform. > > On 16/12/16 16:25, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: > > Pablo and I guess Mario, > > > > > > > > I am only sending one more reply to this, after that any threads of > > that nature become subject to my delete key. > > > > I am not defending Apple at all and totally agree that they need to > > fix bugs and maintain the gold standard they set in accessibility. In > > fact, they have to maintain it not only in accessibility but also in > general. > > Steve Jobbs used to say "It just works" when he introduced some new > > device or feature and that is what people expect from Apple. I > > couldn't care less about the latest fancy features Android may have > > because there are other things I may not like about Android. I want a > > platform that is rock solid, secure, super accessible and which offers a > good feature set. > > > > Where you I think do not understand me is in what I am saying about > > posting these rants about how Apple needs to get their act together on > > this list. We are all blind or visually impaired on this list and want > > iOS to be perfect. If I met with a group of 25 blind iOS users in > > person once a month and each time I complained about how Apple needs > > to fix their bugs that is not productive. I need to tell Apple > > Accessibility, you need to tell Apple Accessibility and every one of > > the 25 guys I am meeting in my hypothetical monthly get-together needs > > to tell Apple Accessibility. For this group this means we all need to > > email and/or call Apple Accessibility and tell them. Telling each > > other doesn't help, it's like if you have an arguement with a friend. > > You resolve it by having an open and honest discussion with your > > friend and not by telling another friend. > > > > Now, if I discover a bug and want to
RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
Not at all, Christopher, I am partial to iOS but I'm not an Apple fan boy in any extreme way. I said that "there are other things I may not like about Android. I want a platform that is rock solid, secure, super accessible and which offers a good feature set." As you see I said "platform" I didn't say I want "iOS to be rock solid etc.". Android maybe rock solid, I'm not using it so I can't say except for what I hear from friends who have used it or are using it. Anyhow, that wasn't my point, my point is that bitching in general about anything to people who can't do anything about it typically doesn't have much of a result and if it goes on too long it just ticks people off. I can complain all day long about our government, but if I don't vote I am not participating in an active way to change it. The same goes for any software, if I don't report bugs, maybe even participate in public beta programs and so on and all I do is complain to a group of people who already know the problems I am not helping. It doesn't matter if that is iOS, Android, Windows or whatever. Regards, Sieghard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 4:16 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet This is just my opinion, but Sieghard, you make it sound like Android is not rock solid or secure, and that isn't how I feel. I do think Android and Talk Back are rock solid. IMHO, maybe even more so than IOS and VoiceOver. For what I use my phone for, I feel I run into fewer bugs on my S7 then I do on my iPhone, but obviously a lot of this is dependent on how someone uses their phone. I will grant that Android is not as secure as IOS, but I have yet to be compromised. I run some anti-malware software on my S7, and I'm careful on where I get apps. With this, I think Android is as secure as I need it to be. I'm willing to put up with some of Android's warts in order to take advantage of some of it's features, but obviously not everyone will be in the same boat. I'm not trying to sell anyone on Android, and it definitely has some issues that haven't been touched on in this thread. Apple and the iPhone are great choices, but I really believe we have two good options here for an accessible mobile platform, and it's great that people have this choice and can take advantages of the strengths in each platform. On 16/12/16 16:25, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: > Pablo and I guess Mario, > > > > I am only sending one more reply to this, after that any threads of > that nature become subject to my delete key. > > I am not defending Apple at all and totally agree that they need to > fix bugs and maintain the gold standard they set in accessibility. In > fact, they have to maintain it not only in accessibility but also in general. > Steve Jobbs used to say "It just works" when he introduced some new > device or feature and that is what people expect from Apple. I > couldn't care less about the latest fancy features Android may have > because there are other things I may not like about Android. I want a > platform that is rock solid, secure, super accessible and which offers a good > feature set. > > Where you I think do not understand me is in what I am saying about > posting these rants about how Apple needs to get their act together on > this list. We are all blind or visually impaired on this list and want > iOS to be perfect. If I met with a group of 25 blind iOS users in > person once a month and each time I complained about how Apple needs > to fix their bugs that is not productive. I need to tell Apple > Accessibility, you need to tell Apple Accessibility and every one of > the 25 guys I am meeting in my hypothetical monthly get-together needs > to tell Apple Accessibility. For this group this means we all need to > email and/or call Apple Accessibility and tell them. Telling each > other doesn't help, it's like if you have an arguement with a friend. > You resolve it by having an open and honest discussion with your > friend and not by telling another friend. > > Now, if I discover a bug and want to verify that it's a bug everybody > experiences then I can of course post it to the list and get people's > feedback, but I post what I discovered and describe the behaviour, I > don't necessarily include a rant about how Apple should have never let > this bug happen in the first place. Maybe you want feedback from a > friend about how you should approach your other friend with whom you > have the arguement and then it's OK to discuss it with your other > friend, but you still need to go and have it out with the friend with > whom you have the arguement. In this
Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
6 12:15 PM *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com *Subject:* RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet Hi Sieghard I think that you haven’t read the whole threads in the last days. I said so because you are replying this email without knowledge of why I am posting this email. I recommend that you check about it in the last 2 days. Yes it is an IOs list, however it doesn’t mean that we cannot say that apple is doing a bad job regarding software updates, and specially fixing the problems that their software team are creating each IOs update. Mario is right when he says that apple has to be more responsible with their customers. I said something similar months ago, when I complained about the usability of our phones and the time that apple takes to fix bugs, and sometimes they just ignore the bugs and release new IOs, with more bugs. Obviously Sieghard your attitude shows a strong position in favor of apple, and you feel like ignoring what is wrong. Your attitude is no helping the blind community, your attitude defending apple when they are no fixing the bugs is going to fix apple in the future. Your attitude is hurting the accessibility and hurting apple too. You are defending a company that in the past had a very good attitude with the software and with the bugs unrepaired of software. You are defending them when they are no doing a good job. I posted those links, no talking about android or blackberry, those web pages are talking about the same point that we have been talking in the list these las 2 days. Bugs, and bad quality of software. The android developers are going to fix those problems? No, you know that they are not going to do it. Apple is going to fix this problems? Obviously they are no putting a lot of interest fixing these problems, they are more concern in the releases of new fancy IOs, than fixing the bugs of those new fancy releases. Who is going to fix these problems? We, their customers. We need to call, we need to write, we need to do a lot of noise because we are paying their checks with the products that we are buying. It is how market works. In the last emails I have said, several times that liking or not. Voiceover is the best choice for us. I am not saying that android accessibility is better, no I didn’t said that. Read those emails and you will see what is my position about it. I am not saying that Mario and many others are wrong, no. They are right, apple is no doing a good job with the software. But it doesn’t mean that I am saying that apple bs, as you said. I don’t use that vocabulary, I am not accustomed to do that. However, saying that apple is great, and keeping your attitude of just highlight the good things, are not going to improve the quality of apple software. Calling, writing, making noise is what is going to improve the software quality. I rather to write, to call, to make noise. I rather to complain to apple about their low quality. Because I am living in The United States where I have the right to complain about this kind of things when I paid for that. I am using my right. More over this right improves quality and it is what apple and customer’s needs. No just saying that whoever said something that you don’t like about apple, are wrong. *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Sieghard Weitzel *Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2016 10:12 PM *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> *Subject:* RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet Pablo and others, You can find bunches of articles on anything on Google. I could send you 50 links of articles which praise Apple and iOS to high heaven, then I can send you just as many that are the complete opposite and the same applies to Google/Android. I can probably even find you some die-hard Blackberry fans who are posting that Blackberry is the best ever and both iOS and Android are complete BS. I don't think we have to get into what is better or if iOS is any good or anything like that. The point is that this is an iOS list, we are all here because we use iOS devices due to their very good level of accessibility. We all know there are bugs and that there always will be bugs. We all know that Apple with iOS, Mac OS, TVOS and Watch OS don't have an exclusive on them, Android has them, Windows has them, Google Chrome has them and other software like Jaws, Office, Adobe, Firefox they all have bugs as do all apps. This list is and should be about helping each other, answering each others questions and posting articles about some particularly cool app or accessory. The list is also about posting about bugs you discover or think you have discovered, sure you can point out your thoughts that Apple should do more or that Apple really should have fixed this or that bug already or during the Beta cycle, but I think these rants which then result in endless one-liners about
Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
Furthermore, accessibility problems are not the only problems. There’s a troubling tendency among consumers of assistive technology to believe that if we didn’t use assistive technology, our user experience would be perfect. But If you have an Android phone running 7.1.1, you might encounter problems with Bluetooth, reception, or sound/speakers. And some iPhone users are concerned with battery, VoLTE/LTE/Wifi and iCloud issues. Technology is always changing and far from perfect. On 12/16/16, Sieghard Weitzel <siegh...@live.ca> wrote: > Pablo and I guess Mario, > > I am only sending one more reply to this, after that any threads of that > nature become subject to my delete key. > I am not defending Apple at all and totally agree that they need to fix bugs > and maintain the gold standard they set in accessibility. In fact, they have > to maintain it not only in accessibility but also in general. Steve Jobbs > used to say "It just works" when he introduced some new device or feature > and that is what people expect from Apple. I couldn't care less about the > latest fancy features Android may have because there are other things I may > not like about Android. I want a platform that is rock solid, secure, super > accessible and which offers a good feature set. > Where you I think do not understand me is in what I am saying about posting > these rants about how Apple needs to get their act together on this list. We > are all blind or visually impaired on this list and want iOS to be perfect. > If I met with a group of 25 blind iOS users in person once a month and each > time I complained about how Apple needs to fix their bugs that is not > productive. I need to tell Apple Accessibility, you need to tell Apple > Accessibility and every one of the 25 guys I am meeting in my hypothetical > monthly get-together needs to tell Apple Accessibility. For this group this > means we all need to email and/or call Apple Accessibility and tell them. > Telling each other doesn't help, it's like if you have an arguement with a > friend. You resolve it by having an open and honest discussion with your > friend and not by telling another friend. > Now, if I discover a bug and want to verify that it's a bug everybody > experiences then I can of course post it to the list and get people's > feedback, but I post what I discovered and describe the behaviour, I don't > necessarily include a rant about how Apple should have never let this bug > happen in the first place. Maybe you want feedback from a friend about how > you should approach your other friend with whom you have the arguement and > then it's OK to discuss it with your other friend, but you still need to go > and have it out with the friend with whom you have the arguement. In this > case the friend with whom you have the arguement is Apple, this list is your > friend with whom you can talk about how you should handle it. > If you want to tell the sighted world at large about Apple Accessibility and > how Apple needs to do more than go right ahead, tell everybody at the bus > stop or at the line up at the checkout counter or post it to the Google > Community of Rob's Today in iOS Podcast, but complaining continuously on the > Viphone list is like preaching to the choir, it doesn't help and it just > makes most people want to whip you with Apple Earpods and Lightning cables > *that was supposed to be a joke*. > Anyhow, it just gets old, here we all know and experience the bugs and > challenges with accessibility, we all want it to be better but it will only > get better if Apple gets more and more feedback and good feedback which > means good and detailed bug reports and not rants about how this should just > all be fixed. > Yes, sometimes it seems inexcusable how some bugs persist throughout a beta > cycle or even multiple major releases of iOS. But to say Apple is not fixing > bugs or that they are not improving accessibility with new features is > garbage, I'm sure the team at Apple that is in charge of Voiceover and > accessibility tries very hard and that they do all they can, but Apple is > not just that team and I'm sure they are sometimes just as frustrated as you > are that a new version gets released with new bugs or old bugs which haven't > been fixed. > > Regards, > Sieghard > > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of Pablo C. Morales > Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 12:15 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet > > Hi Sieghard > I think that you haven’t read the whole threads in the last days. I said so > because you are replying this email without knowledge of why I am posting > this email. I recommend that you check about it in
RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
Pablo and I guess Mario, I am only sending one more reply to this, after that any threads of that nature become subject to my delete key. I am not defending Apple at all and totally agree that they need to fix bugs and maintain the gold standard they set in accessibility. In fact, they have to maintain it not only in accessibility but also in general. Steve Jobbs used to say "It just works" when he introduced some new device or feature and that is what people expect from Apple. I couldn't care less about the latest fancy features Android may have because there are other things I may not like about Android. I want a platform that is rock solid, secure, super accessible and which offers a good feature set. Where you I think do not understand me is in what I am saying about posting these rants about how Apple needs to get their act together on this list. We are all blind or visually impaired on this list and want iOS to be perfect. If I met with a group of 25 blind iOS users in person once a month and each time I complained about how Apple needs to fix their bugs that is not productive. I need to tell Apple Accessibility, you need to tell Apple Accessibility and every one of the 25 guys I am meeting in my hypothetical monthly get-together needs to tell Apple Accessibility. For this group this means we all need to email and/or call Apple Accessibility and tell them. Telling each other doesn't help, it's like if you have an arguement with a friend. You resolve it by having an open and honest discussion with your friend and not by telling another friend. Now, if I discover a bug and want to verify that it's a bug everybody experiences then I can of course post it to the list and get people's feedback, but I post what I discovered and describe the behaviour, I don't necessarily include a rant about how Apple should have never let this bug happen in the first place. Maybe you want feedback from a friend about how you should approach your other friend with whom you have the arguement and then it's OK to discuss it with your other friend, but you still need to go and have it out with the friend with whom you have the arguement. In this case the friend with whom you have the arguement is Apple, this list is your friend with whom you can talk about how you should handle it. If you want to tell the sighted world at large about Apple Accessibility and how Apple needs to do more than go right ahead, tell everybody at the bus stop or at the line up at the checkout counter or post it to the Google Community of Rob's Today in iOS Podcast, but complaining continuously on the Viphone list is like preaching to the choir, it doesn't help and it just makes most people want to whip you with Apple Earpods and Lightning cables *that was supposed to be a joke*. Anyhow, it just gets old, here we all know and experience the bugs and challenges with accessibility, we all want it to be better but it will only get better if Apple gets more and more feedback and good feedback which means good and detailed bug reports and not rants about how this should just all be fixed. Yes, sometimes it seems inexcusable how some bugs persist throughout a beta cycle or even multiple major releases of iOS. But to say Apple is not fixing bugs or that they are not improving accessibility with new features is garbage, I'm sure the team at Apple that is in charge of Voiceover and accessibility tries very hard and that they do all they can, but Apple is not just that team and I'm sure they are sometimes just as frustrated as you are that a new version gets released with new bugs or old bugs which haven't been fixed. Regards, Sieghard From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pablo C. Morales Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 12:15 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet Hi Sieghard I think that you haven’t read the whole threads in the last days. I said so because you are replying this email without knowledge of why I am posting this email. I recommend that you check about it in the last 2 days. Yes it is an IOs list, however it doesn’t mean that we cannot say that apple is doing a bad job regarding software updates, and specially fixing the problems that their software team are creating each IOs update. Mario is right when he says that apple has to be more responsible with their customers. I said something similar months ago, when I complained about the usability of our phones and the time that apple takes to fix bugs, and sometimes they just ignore the bugs and release new IOs, with more bugs. Obviously Sieghard your attitude shows a strong position in favor of apple, and you feel like ignoring what is wrong. Your attitude is no helping the blind community, your attitude defending apple when they are no fixing the bugs is going to fix apple in the future. Your attitude is hurting the acc
RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
Mario, I think that you are right complaining in the email list about your problems with the last updates. I think that everybody have to do it. I think that we should do it. Here, at the school, at the bus stop, everywhere. As much people understand these problems, the power of our complains get stronger. If we just say that we have an IOs bug problem, and we just email apple, we have seen that this method is no working. It hasn’t been working since years ago. If we make noise, the people sighted, or blind, with disabilities or without then, who are affected with IOs problems, will add their voices to our voices, so we will be heard strong and clearly. From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mário Gabriel Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 2:57 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet Sorry Pablo. it was not my intention put you in the same box. But you can see how they do not value what you write. You did not write anything or mention anything that now they accuse you ... You only wrote the truth, but for them it is not worth anything. Are you seeing Pablo as you are discriminated? You tried to be fair in your post but now you're accused of writing things you did not write. It was me who wrote. topic close. cheers. Às 18:32 de 16/12/2016, Pablo C. Morales escreveu: Mister Ed. Could you please show in the list, publicly in which email I am saying that I am being discriminated or segregated due to my race? Also, could you show in the list, publicly in which email about this topic, I am not saying that we need to do is complain to apple, call and send emails to them? Mister Ed, you need to be so careful with your answers, because you are showing that you didn’t read my emails, and you are just generalizing putting Mario and Me in the same box, it is very similar than segregation, and obviously you are doing that due to our race. In any email I didn’t say that anybody is discriminating me, or that I feel that someone is segregating me because of my race, it is something that you are saying, no me. In all emails about this topic, I have saying over and over that we need to write to apple, we need to call and complain about it. About Sieghard, what I am saying that he always has showed a strong attitude in pro of apple, minimizing the IOs bugs, he always pretends to reduce the noise that people makes about the apple bugs. Again, what he is doing is against the accessibility. Against apple, and against himself. If we start to minimize the noise of people that is complaining about the IOs bugs, it will not fix the problem. He said that we need to complain to apple, and stop complaining in the list. No, it is no positive for us. I said that we need to complain, here and everywhere, about this bugs. It is the way how apple will pay attention to these problems. Obviously apple is no so worry about fixing bugs, obviously apple has les interest fixing voice over bugs. You and everybody here know that we have bunches of bugs in voice over for years, and apple never fixed them. It shows lack of interest. Why they have lack of interest? Because we have people saying that all IOs have bugs, that don’t worry, it is an isolated problem, that this and that. Reducing the noise of people who is being affected for these bugs. I think that Sieghard is doing good asking the people to write to apple, he is doing good asking to complain directly to apple. But we need to make these problems public in the list, we need to make these problems visible to the whole community. Mister Ed, please be so careful with the answers that you are writing. Also I suggest that you read the emails before generalize about this. Respectfully, didn’t From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mr. Ed Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 12:15 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> Subject: RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet Hi Mario and Pablo, Neither one of you are being discriminated on this group. This has nothing to do with race of any kind. Sieghard was just pointing out that all smart phones have their issues. He did not say Apple was the best. He was just trying to say that all software’s have glitches. As for Sieghard he is the first one to send an email to Apple support if he finds an issue. He also advises everyone else if they have an issue with Apple to contact tech support. That is all he meant by his email. I think one issue you guys do not understand is to just contact Apple when there is an issue and not to keep whining about it over and over and over on the list. It’s ok to mention it and see if anyone else is having the same issue. So get off your high horses and don’t be throwing out the race c
Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
Sorry Pablo. it was not my intention put you in the same box. But you can see how they do not value what you write. You did not write anything or mention anything that now they accuse you ... You only wrote the truth, but for them it is not worth anything. Are you seeing Pablo as you are discriminated? You tried to be fair in your post but now you're accused of writing things you did not write. It was me who wrote. topic close. cheers. Às 18:32 de 16/12/2016, Pablo C. Morales escreveu: Mister Ed. Could you please show in the list, publicly in which email I am saying that I am being discriminated or segregated due to my race? Also, could you show in the list, publicly in which email about this topic, I am not saying that we need to do is complain to apple, call and send emails to them? Mister Ed, you need to be so careful with your answers, because you are showing that you didn’t read my emails, and you are just generalizing putting Mario and Me in the same box, it is very similar than segregation, and obviously you are doing that due to our race. In any email I didn’t say that anybody is discriminating me, or that I feel that someone is segregating me because of my race, it is something that you are saying, no me. In all emails about this topic, I have saying over and over that we need to write to apple, we need to call and complain about it. About Sieghard, what I am saying that he always has showed a strong attitude in pro of apple, minimizing the IOs bugs, he always pretends to reduce the noise that people makes about the apple bugs. Again, what he is doing is against the accessibility. Against apple, and against himself. If we start to minimize the noise of people that is complaining about the IOs bugs, it will not fix the problem. He said that we need to complain to apple, and stop complaining in the list. No, it is no positive for us. I said that we need to complain, here and everywhere, about this bugs. It is the way how apple will pay attention to these problems. Obviously apple is no so worry about fixing bugs, obviously apple has les interest fixing voice over bugs. You and everybody here know that we have bunches of bugs in voice over for years, and apple never fixed them. It shows lack of interest. Why they have lack of interest? Because we have people saying that all IOs have bugs, that don’t worry, it is an isolated problem, that this and that. Reducing the noise of people who is being affected for these bugs. I think that Sieghard is doing good asking the people to write to apple, he is doing good asking to complain directly to apple. But we need to make these problems public in the list, we need to make these problems visible to the whole community. Mister Ed, please be so careful with the answers that you are writing. Also I suggest that you read the emails before generalize about this. Respectfully, didn’t *From:*viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Mr. Ed *Sent:* Friday, December 16, 2016 12:15 PM *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com *Subject:* RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet Hi Mario and Pablo, Neither one of you are being discriminated on this group. This has nothing to do with race of any kind. Sieghard was just pointing out that all smart phones have their issues. He did not say Apple was the best. He was just trying to say that all software’s have glitches. As for Sieghard he is the first one to send an email to Apple support if he finds an issue. He also advises everyone else if they have an issue with Apple to contact tech support. That is all he meant by his email. I think one issue you guys do not understand is to just contact Apple when there is an issue and not to keep whining about it over and over and over on the list. It’s ok to mention it and see if anyone else is having the same issue. So get off your high horses and don’t be throwing out the race card. Mr. Ed *From:*viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Mário Gabriel *Sent:* Friday, December 16, 2016 5:34 AM *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> *Subject:* Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet Wow, Pablo. I make mine, your words. Some American people do not admit or like to hear the truth. They always discriminate the intelligence of those who are not American ... And that's why in the past you were discriminated and insulted in this group. I was here at that time and I heard all the bad things about you. I am also discriminated in this group, and this will never change. They always want to be right and do not admit that non-Americans have an opinion and are above them ... But I always say what I think, because I am free and I have my rights. If they treat me badly, I treat them badly. If they treat me well, I treat them well. cheers. Às
RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
Hi Pablo, I apologize to you for putting you in the same email with Mario in regards to the race issue. I do read all emails and have listen to you complain and complain when you were on this list about a year ago before you left it. Now I know why you were gone as you stated in one of your emails that you tried out an Android phone. I give you credit as you at least went and tried one compared to Mario who just likes to complain all the time but does not write and emails to Apple support. So once again I apologize for including you in my email regarding the race issue or any other statement I made in any email. That is not my intent to harm anyone. I was just trying to make you guys realize that by your constant complaining on the list is not going to solve the issue with IOS. That why you need to voice your issues with Apple support. No one is denying there are bugs and some are fix and some are not. Mr. Ed From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pablo C. Morales Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 12:32 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet Mister Ed. Could you please show in the list, publicly in which email I am saying that I am being discriminated or segregated due to my race? Also, could you show in the list, publicly in which email about this topic, I am not saying that we need to do is complain to apple, call and send emails to them? Mister Ed, you need to be so careful with your answers, because you are showing that you didn’t read my emails, and you are just generalizing putting Mario and Me in the same box, it is very similar than segregation, and obviously you are doing that due to our race. In any email I didn’t say that anybody is discriminating me, or that I feel that someone is segregating me because of my race, it is something that you are saying, no me. In all emails about this topic, I have saying over and over that we need to write to apple, we need to call and complain about it. About Sieghard, what I am saying that he always has showed a strong attitude in pro of apple, minimizing the IOs bugs, he always pretends to reduce the noise that people makes about the apple bugs. Again, what he is doing is against the accessibility. Against apple, and against himself. If we start to minimize the noise of people that is complaining about the IOs bugs, it will not fix the problem. He said that we need to complain to apple, and stop complaining in the list. No, it is no positive for us. I said that we need to complain, here and everywhere, about this bugs. It is the way how apple will pay attention to these problems. Obviously apple is no so worry about fixing bugs, obviously apple has les interest fixing voice over bugs. You and everybody here know that we have bunches of bugs in voice over for years, and apple never fixed them. It shows lack of interest. Why they have lack of interest? Because we have people saying that all IOs have bugs, that don’t worry, it is an isolated problem, that this and that. Reducing the noise of people who is being affected for these bugs. I think that Sieghard is doing good asking the people to write to apple, he is doing good asking to complain directly to apple. But we need to make these problems public in the list, we need to make these problems visible to the whole community. Mister Ed, please be so careful with the answers that you are writing. Also I suggest that you read the emails before generalize about this. Respectfully, didn’t From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mr. Ed Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 12:15 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet Hi Mario and Pablo, Neither one of you are being discriminated on this group. This has nothing to do with race of any kind. Sieghard was just pointing out that all smart phones have their issues. He did not say Apple was the best. He was just trying to say that all software’s have glitches. As for Sieghard he is the first one to send an email to Apple support if he finds an issue. He also advises everyone else if they have an issue with Apple to contact tech support. That is all he meant by his email. I think one issue you guys do not understand is to just contact Apple when there is an issue and not to keep whining about it over and over and over on the list. It’s ok to mention it and see if anyone else is having the same issue. So get off your high horses and don’t be throwing out the race card. Mr. Ed From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mário Gabriel Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 5:34 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet Wow, Pablo. I make mine, your words. Some American people do
RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
Mister Ed. Could you please show in the list, publicly in which email I am saying that I am being discriminated or segregated due to my race? Also, could you show in the list, publicly in which email about this topic, I am not saying that we need to do is complain to apple, call and send emails to them? Mister Ed, you need to be so careful with your answers, because you are showing that you didn’t read my emails, and you are just generalizing putting Mario and Me in the same box, it is very similar than segregation, and obviously you are doing that due to our race. In any email I didn’t say that anybody is discriminating me, or that I feel that someone is segregating me because of my race, it is something that you are saying, no me. In all emails about this topic, I have saying over and over that we need to write to apple, we need to call and complain about it. About Sieghard, what I am saying that he always has showed a strong attitude in pro of apple, minimizing the IOs bugs, he always pretends to reduce the noise that people makes about the apple bugs. Again, what he is doing is against the accessibility. Against apple, and against himself. If we start to minimize the noise of people that is complaining about the IOs bugs, it will not fix the problem. He said that we need to complain to apple, and stop complaining in the list. No, it is no positive for us. I said that we need to complain, here and everywhere, about this bugs. It is the way how apple will pay attention to these problems. Obviously apple is no so worry about fixing bugs, obviously apple has les interest fixing voice over bugs. You and everybody here know that we have bunches of bugs in voice over for years, and apple never fixed them. It shows lack of interest. Why they have lack of interest? Because we have people saying that all IOs have bugs, that don’t worry, it is an isolated problem, that this and that. Reducing the noise of people who is being affected for these bugs. I think that Sieghard is doing good asking the people to write to apple, he is doing good asking to complain directly to apple. But we need to make these problems public in the list, we need to make these problems visible to the whole community. Mister Ed, please be so careful with the answers that you are writing. Also I suggest that you read the emails before generalize about this. Respectfully, didn’t From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mr. Ed Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 12:15 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet Hi Mario and Pablo, Neither one of you are being discriminated on this group. This has nothing to do with race of any kind. Sieghard was just pointing out that all smart phones have their issues. He did not say Apple was the best. He was just trying to say that all software’s have glitches. As for Sieghard he is the first one to send an email to Apple support if he finds an issue. He also advises everyone else if they have an issue with Apple to contact tech support. That is all he meant by his email. I think one issue you guys do not understand is to just contact Apple when there is an issue and not to keep whining about it over and over and over on the list. It’s ok to mention it and see if anyone else is having the same issue. So get off your high horses and don’t be throwing out the race card. Mr. Ed From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mário Gabriel Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 5:34 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet Wow, Pablo. I make mine, your words. Some American people do not admit or like to hear the truth. They always discriminate the intelligence of those who are not American ... And that's why in the past you were discriminated and insulted in this group. I was here at that time and I heard all the bad things about you. I am also discriminated in this group, and this will never change. They always want to be right and do not admit that non-Americans have an opinion and are above them ... But I always say what I think, because I am free and I have my rights. If they treat me badly, I treat them badly. If they treat me well, I treat them well. cheers. Às 20:15 de 15/12/2016, Pablo C. Morales escreveu: Hi Sieghard I think that you haven’t read the whole threads in the last days. I said so because you are replying this email without knowledge of why I am posting this email. I recommend that you check about it in the last 2 days. Yes it is an IOs list, however it doesn’t mean that we cannot say that apple is doing a bad job regarding software updates, and specially fixing the problems that their software team are creating each IOs update. Ma
Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
Thank you for that reply I've been waiting a while before I said something really appreciate it very true. Peggy Sent from my IPhone. > On Dec 16, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Mr. Ed <pink...@abe.midco.net> wrote: > > Hi Mario and Pablo, > Neither one of you are being discriminated on this group. This has nothing to > do with race of any kind. Sieghard was just pointing out that all smart > phones have their issues. He did not say Apple was the best. He was just > trying to say that all software’s have glitches. As for Sieghard he is the > first one to send an email to Apple support if he finds an issue. He also > advises everyone else if they have an issue with Apple to contact tech > support. That is all he meant by his email. I think one issue you guys do > not understand is to just contact Apple when there is an issue and not to > keep whining about it over and over and over on the list. It’s ok to mention > it and see if anyone else is having the same issue. So get off your high > horses and don’t be throwing out the race card. > Mr. Ed > > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of > Mário Gabriel > Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 5:34 AM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet > > > > > > > Wow, Pablo. > I make mine, your words. > Some American people do not admit or like to hear the truth. > They always discriminate the intelligence of those who are not American ... > And that's why in the past you were discriminated and insulted in this group. > I was here at that time and I heard all the bad things about you. > I am also discriminated in this group, and this will never change. > They always want to be right and do not admit that non-Americans have an > opinion and are above them ... > But I always say what I think, because I am free and I have my rights. > > If they treat me badly, I treat them badly. > If they treat me well, I treat them well. > cheers. > > > Às 20:15 de 15/12/2016, Pablo C. Morales escreveu: > Hi Sieghard > I think that you haven’t read the whole threads in the last days. I said so > because you are replying this email without knowledge of why I am posting > this email. I recommend that you check about it in the last 2 days. Yes it > is an IOs list, however it doesn’t mean that we cannot say that apple is > doing a bad job regarding software updates, and specially fixing the problems > that their software team are creating each IOs update. Mario is right when he > says that apple has to be more responsible with their customers. I said > something similar months ago, when I complained about the usability of our > phones and the time that apple takes to fix bugs, and sometimes they just > ignore the bugs and release new IOs, with more bugs. Obviously Sieghard your > attitude shows a strong position in favor of apple, and you feel like > ignoring what is wrong. Your attitude is no helping the blind community, your > attitude defending apple when they are no fixing the bugs is going to fix > apple in the future. Your attitude is hurting the accessibility and hurting > apple too. You are defending a company that in the past had a very good > attitude with the software and with the bugs unrepaired of software. You > are defending them when they are no doing a good job. I posted those links, > no talking about android or blackberry, those web pages are talking about the > same point that we have been talking in the list these las 2 days. Bugs, and > bad quality of software. The android developers are going to fix those > problems? > No, you know that they are not going to do it. Apple is going to fix this > problems? > Obviously they are no putting a lot of interest fixing these problems, they > are more concern in the releases of new fancy IOs, than fixing the bugs of > those new fancy releases. > Who is going to fix these problems? > We, their customers. We need to call, we need to write, we need to do a lot > of noise because we are paying their checks with the products that we are > buying. It is how market works. > In the last emails I have said, several times that liking or not. Voiceover > is the best choice for us. I am not saying that android accessibility is > better, no I didn’t said that. Read those emails and you will see what is my > position about it. I am not saying that Mario and many others are wrong, no. > They are right, apple is no doing a good job with the software. But it > doesn’t mean that I am saying that apple bs, as you said. > I don’t use that vocabulary, I am not accustomed to do that. > However, saying that apple is great, and
RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
Hi Mario and Pablo, Neither one of you are being discriminated on this group. This has nothing to do with race of any kind. Sieghard was just pointing out that all smart phones have their issues. He did not say Apple was the best. He was just trying to say that all software’s have glitches. As for Sieghard he is the first one to send an email to Apple support if he finds an issue. He also advises everyone else if they have an issue with Apple to contact tech support. That is all he meant by his email. I think one issue you guys do not understand is to just contact Apple when there is an issue and not to keep whining about it over and over and over on the list. It’s ok to mention it and see if anyone else is having the same issue. So get off your high horses and don’t be throwing out the race card. Mr. Ed From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mário Gabriel Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 5:34 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet Wow, Pablo. I make mine, your words. Some American people do not admit or like to hear the truth. They always discriminate the intelligence of those who are not American ... And that's why in the past you were discriminated and insulted in this group. I was here at that time and I heard all the bad things about you. I am also discriminated in this group, and this will never change. They always want to be right and do not admit that non-Americans have an opinion and are above them ... But I always say what I think, because I am free and I have my rights. If they treat me badly, I treat them badly. If they treat me well, I treat them well. cheers. Às 20:15 de 15/12/2016, Pablo C. Morales escreveu: Hi Sieghard I think that you haven’t read the whole threads in the last days. I said so because you are replying this email without knowledge of why I am posting this email. I recommend that you check about it in the last 2 days. Yes it is an IOs list, however it doesn’t mean that we cannot say that apple is doing a bad job regarding software updates, and specially fixing the problems that their software team are creating each IOs update. Mario is right when he says that apple has to be more responsible with their customers. I said something similar months ago, when I complained about the usability of our phones and the time that apple takes to fix bugs, and sometimes they just ignore the bugs and release new IOs, with more bugs. Obviously Sieghard your attitude shows a strong position in favor of apple, and you feel like ignoring what is wrong. Your attitude is no helping the blind community, your attitude defending apple when they are no fixing the bugs is going to fix apple in the future. Your attitude is hurting the accessibility and hurting apple too. You are defending a company that in the past had a very good attitude with the software and with the bugs unrepaired of software. You are defending them when they are no doing a good job. I posted those links, no talking about android or blackberry, those web pages are talking about the same point that we have been talking in the list these las 2 days. Bugs, and bad quality of software. The android developers are going to fix those problems? No, you know that they are not going to do it. Apple is going to fix this problems? Obviously they are no putting a lot of interest fixing these problems, they are more concern in the releases of new fancy IOs, than fixing the bugs of those new fancy releases. Who is going to fix these problems? We, their customers. We need to call, we need to write, we need to do a lot of noise because we are paying their checks with the products that we are buying. It is how market works. In the last emails I have said, several times that liking or not. Voiceover is the best choice for us. I am not saying that android accessibility is better, no I didn’t said that. Read those emails and you will see what is my position about it. I am not saying that Mario and many others are wrong, no. They are right, apple is no doing a good job with the software. But it doesn’t mean that I am saying that apple bs, as you said. I don’t use that vocabulary, I am not accustomed to do that. However, saying that apple is great, and keeping your attitude of just highlight the good things, are not going to improve the quality of apple software. Calling, writing, making noise is what is going to improve the software quality. I rather to write, to call, to make noise. I rather to complain to apple about their low quality. Because I am living in The United States where I have the right to complain about this kind of things when I paid for that. I am using my right. More over this right improves quality and it is what apple and customer’s needs. No just saying that whoever said something that you don’t like about apple, are wrong
Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
this is direct bashing, and should not be allowed on list. > On Dec 16, 2016, at 6:33 AM, Mário Gabrielwrote: > > > > > > > Wow, Pablo. > I make mine, your words. > Some American people do not admit or like to hear the truth. > They always discriminate the intelligence of those who are not American -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
Wow, Pablo. I make mine, your words. Some American people do not admit or like to hear the truth. They always discriminate the intelligence of those who are not American ... And that's why in the past you were discriminated and insulted in this group. I was here at that time and I heard all the bad things about you. I am also discriminated in this group, and this will never change. They always want to be right and do not admit that non-Americans have an opinion and are above them ... But I always say what I think, because I am free and I have my rights. If they treat me badly, I treat them badly. If they treat me well, I treat them well. cheers. Às 20:15 de 15/12/2016, Pablo C. Morales escreveu: Hi Sieghard I think that you haven’t read the whole threads in the last days. I said so because you are replying this email without knowledge of why I am posting this email. I recommend that you check about it in the last 2 days. Yes it is an IOs list, however it doesn’t mean that we cannot say that apple is doing a bad job regarding software updates, and specially fixing the problems that their software team are creating each IOs update. Mario is right when he says that apple has to be more responsible with their customers. I said something similar months ago, when I complained about the usability of our phones and the time that apple takes to fix bugs, and sometimes they just ignore the bugs and release new IOs, with more bugs. Obviously Sieghard your attitude shows a strong position in favor of apple, and you feel like ignoring what is wrong. Your attitude is no helping the blind community, your attitude defending apple when they are no fixing the bugs is going to fix apple in the future. Your attitude is hurting the accessibility and hurting apple too. You are defending a company that in the past had a very good attitude with the software and with the bugs unrepaired of software. You are defending them when they are no doing a good job. I posted those links, no talking about android or blackberry, those web pages are talking about the same point that we have been talking in the list these las 2 days. Bugs, and bad quality of software. The android developers are going to fix those problems? No, you know that they are not going to do it. Apple is going to fix this problems? Obviously they are no putting a lot of interest fixing these problems, they are more concern in the releases of new fancy IOs, than fixing the bugs of those new fancy releases. Who is going to fix these problems? We, their customers. We need to call, we need to write, we need to do a lot of noise because we are paying their checks with the products that we are buying. It is how market works. In the last emails I have said, several times that liking or not. Voiceover is the best choice for us. I am not saying that android accessibility is better, no I didn’t said that. Read those emails and you will see what is my position about it. I am not saying that Mario and many others are wrong, no. They are right, apple is no doing a good job with the software. But it doesn’t mean that I am saying that apple bs, as you said. I don’t use that vocabulary, I am not accustomed to do that. However, saying that apple is great, and keeping your attitude of just highlight the good things, are not going to improve the quality of apple software. Calling, writing, making noise is what is going to improve the software quality. I rather to write, to call, to make noise. I rather to complain to apple about their low quality. Because I am living in The United States where I have the right to complain about this kind of things when I paid for that. I am using my right. More over this right improves quality and it is what apple and customer’s needs. No just saying that whoever said something that you don’t like about apple, are wrong. *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Sieghard Weitzel *Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2016 10:12 PM *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com *Subject:* RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet Pablo and others, You can find bunches of articles on anything on Google. I could send you 50 links of articles which praise Apple and iOS to high heaven, then I can send you just as many that are the complete opposite and the same applies to Google/Android. I can probably even find you some die-hard Blackberry fans who are posting that Blackberry is the best ever and both iOS and Android are complete BS. I don't think we have to get into what is better or if iOS is any good or anything like that. The point is that this is an iOS list, we are all here because we use iOS devices due to their very good level of accessibility. We all know there are bugs and that there always will be bugs. We all know that Apple with iOS, Mac OS, TVOS and Watch OS don't have an exclusive on them, Android has them, Windows has
Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
Pablo, I agree. also, you can, as I did, pay with your wallet. No, not the wallet app, lol. I bought an android phone, and a new version of Talkback is already out, fixing bugs and adding features. I'd much rather be a part of something that at least moves forward, rather tan stands still. On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 2:15 PM Pablo C. Morales <pablocmd2...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Sieghard > > I think that you haven’t read the whole threads in the last days. I said > so because you are replying this email without knowledge of why I am > posting this email. I recommend that you check about it in the last 2 > days. Yes it is an IOs list, however it doesn’t mean that we cannot say > that apple is doing a bad job regarding software updates, and specially > fixing the problems that their software team are creating each IOs update. > Mario is right when he says that apple has to be more responsible with > their customers. I said something similar months ago, when I complained > about the usability of our phones and the time that apple takes to fix > bugs, and sometimes they just ignore the bugs and release new IOs, with > more bugs. Obviously Sieghard your attitude shows a strong position in > favor of apple, and you feel like ignoring what is wrong. Your attitude is > no helping the blind community, your attitude defending apple when they are > no fixing the bugs is going to fix apple in the future. Your attitude is > hurting the accessibility and hurting apple too. You are defending a > company that in the past had a very good attitude with the software and > with the bugs unrepaired of software. You are defending them when they are > no doing a good job. I posted those links, no talking about android or > blackberry, those web pages are talking about the same point that we have > been talking in the list these las 2 days. Bugs, and bad quality of > software. The android developers are going to fix those problems? > > No, you know that they are not going to do it. Apple is going to fix this > problems? > > Obviously they are no putting a lot of interest fixing these problems, > they are more concern in the releases of new fancy IOs, than fixing the > bugs of those new fancy releases. > > Who is going to fix these problems? > > We, their customers. We need to call, we need to write, we need to do a > lot of noise because we are paying their checks with the products that we > are buying. It is how market works. > > In the last emails I have said, several times that liking or not. > Voiceover is the best choice for us. I am not saying that android > accessibility is better, no I didn’t said that. Read those emails and you > will see what is my position about it. I am not saying that Mario and many > others are wrong, no. They are right, apple is no doing a good job with the > software. But it doesn’t mean that I am saying that apple bs, as you said. > > I don’t use that vocabulary, I am not accustomed to do that. > > However, saying that apple is great, and keeping your attitude of just > highlight the good things, are not going to improve the quality of apple > software. Calling, writing, making noise is what is going to improve the > software quality. I rather to write, to call, to make noise. I rather to > complain to apple about their low quality. Because I am living in The > United States where I have the right to complain about this kind of things > when I paid for that. I am using my right. More over this right improves > quality and it is what apple and customer’s needs. No just saying that > whoever said something that you don’t like about apple, are wrong. > > > > > > *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Sieghard Weitzel > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2016 10:12 PM > *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com > *Subject:* RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet > > > > Pablo and others, > > > > You can find bunches of articles on anything on Google. I could send you > 50 links of articles which praise Apple and iOS to high heaven, then I can > send you just as many that are the complete opposite and the same applies > to Google/Android. I can probably even find you some die-hard Blackberry > fans who are posting that Blackberry is the best ever and both iOS and > Android are complete BS. I don't think we have to get into what is better > or if iOS is any good or anything like that. The point is that this is an > iOS list, we are all here because we use iOS devices due to their very good > level of accessibility. We all know there are bugs and that there always > will be bugs. We all know that Apple with iOS, Mac OS, TVOS and Watch OS > don't have an exclusive on them, Android has them,
RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
Well guys, We own apple devices. If the quality of software is decreasing the usability of our phones, apple watches, iPads, etc. We need to complained to apple. We need to talk to them, we need to email them, we need to make noise, we need to make public these problems, so apple will take care about it. But no saying anything about this bugs, or defending the negligence of apple software developers, or just making noise at home. We are no doing anything. We need to write, call, make public these problems. So apple seeing that their pocket is going to lose some money, then they will improve the software quality. From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Devin Prater Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 12:18 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet Android only has real malware issues if one goes outside of the playstore. Same for any open computer, like Mac or Windows. On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 9:41 PM Christopher Chaltain <chalt...@gmail.com <mailto:chalt...@gmail.com> > wrote: There's much to agree with here, but the article referred to was from ZDNet, and that article did refer to another article which actually had some real information. It wasn't just anecdotal, and it wasn't just some rant from a guy in his basement with his own blog, which is what I was expecting. I would also think that quality of IOS and VoiceOver would be on topic for this list. It could also both be true that IOS has some quality issues and Android has some malware issues. They aren't mutually exclusive! Like I said, there's a lot to agree with below, such as how easy it would be for this to go off topic and just turn into bashing and not productive or constructive at all. On 14/12/16 21:11, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: > Pablo and others, > > > > You can find bunches of articles on anything on Google. I could send you > 50 links of articles which praise Apple and iOS to high heaven, then I > can send you just as many that are the complete opposite and the same > applies to Google/Android. I can probably even find you some die-hard > Blackberry fans who are posting that Blackberry is the best ever and > both iOS and Android are complete BS. I don't think we have to get into > what is better or if iOS is any good or anything like that. The point is > that this is an iOS list, we are all here because we use iOS devices due > to their very good level of accessibility. We all know there are bugs > and that there always will be bugs. We all know that Apple with iOS, > Mac OS, TVOS and Watch OS don't have an exclusive on them, Android has > them, Windows has them, Google Chrome has them and other software like > Jaws, Office, Adobe, Firefox they all have bugs as do all apps. > > This list is and should be about helping each other, answering each > others questions and posting articles about some particularly cool app > or accessory. The list is also about posting about bugs you discover or > think you have discovered, sure you can point out your thoughts that > Apple should do more or that Apple really should have fixed this or that > bug already or during the Beta cycle, but I think these rants which then > result in endless one-liners about how somebody is right or wrong or > should go and get an Android phone if they aren't happy with the iPhone > are just getting old, they usually just rephrase what has already been > said a dozen times over. As you know very well yourself Android isn't > all it's made out to be and while you say you totally would have an > Android phone if you could see there are also thousands of ex-Android > users who can see and who love their new iPhones after making the > switch. Then of course there are those "happy" Android users who bought > Samsung's new flagship Note 7 only to be surprised when the smoke hit > the fan, if this had happened to the iPhone 7 Apple would have been > /crucified and in a much worse way than Samsung./ > > Headlines like your ssubject "Apple has a serious problem with software > quality" are typical link bait, you can go on Google and find lots of > examples for either one, here is just one example that swings the other > way from Forbes: "New Android Malware Strikes At Millions Of Smartphones". > > Sometimes you even find something that is more objective like the > summary of this comparison article: > > iOS 10 vs Android 7.0 Nougat: Conclusion. > > In many respects, Android and iOS are very similar. They're both slick, > refined, competent mobile operating systems. Each has its advantages and > unique features, as well as frustrations and weaknesses. > > > > > > Regards, > > Sieghard > > > > *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:
RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
Hi Sieghard I think that you haven’t read the whole threads in the last days. I said so because you are replying this email without knowledge of why I am posting this email. I recommend that you check about it in the last 2 days. Yes it is an IOs list, however it doesn’t mean that we cannot say that apple is doing a bad job regarding software updates, and specially fixing the problems that their software team are creating each IOs update. Mario is right when he says that apple has to be more responsible with their customers. I said something similar months ago, when I complained about the usability of our phones and the time that apple takes to fix bugs, and sometimes they just ignore the bugs and release new IOs, with more bugs. Obviously Sieghard your attitude shows a strong position in favor of apple, and you feel like ignoring what is wrong. Your attitude is no helping the blind community, your attitude defending apple when they are no fixing the bugs is going to fix apple in the future. Your attitude is hurting the accessibility and hurting apple too. You are defending a company that in the past had a very good attitude with the software and with the bugs unrepaired of software. You are defending them when they are no doing a good job. I posted those links, no talking about android or blackberry, those web pages are talking about the same point that we have been talking in the list these las 2 days. Bugs, and bad quality of software. The android developers are going to fix those problems? No, you know that they are not going to do it. Apple is going to fix this problems? Obviously they are no putting a lot of interest fixing these problems, they are more concern in the releases of new fancy IOs, than fixing the bugs of those new fancy releases. Who is going to fix these problems? We, their customers. We need to call, we need to write, we need to do a lot of noise because we are paying their checks with the products that we are buying. It is how market works. In the last emails I have said, several times that liking or not. Voiceover is the best choice for us. I am not saying that android accessibility is better, no I didn’t said that. Read those emails and you will see what is my position about it. I am not saying that Mario and many others are wrong, no. They are right, apple is no doing a good job with the software. But it doesn’t mean that I am saying that apple bs, as you said. I don’t use that vocabulary, I am not accustomed to do that. However, saying that apple is great, and keeping your attitude of just highlight the good things, are not going to improve the quality of apple software. Calling, writing, making noise is what is going to improve the software quality. I rather to write, to call, to make noise. I rather to complain to apple about their low quality. Because I am living in The United States where I have the right to complain about this kind of things when I paid for that. I am using my right. More over this right improves quality and it is what apple and customer’s needs. No just saying that whoever said something that you don’t like about apple, are wrong. From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 10:12 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet Pablo and others, You can find bunches of articles on anything on Google. I could send you 50 links of articles which praise Apple and iOS to high heaven, then I can send you just as many that are the complete opposite and the same applies to Google/Android. I can probably even find you some die-hard Blackberry fans who are posting that Blackberry is the best ever and both iOS and Android are complete BS. I don't think we have to get into what is better or if iOS is any good or anything like that. The point is that this is an iOS list, we are all here because we use iOS devices due to their very good level of accessibility. We all know there are bugs and that there always will be bugs. We all know that Apple with iOS, Mac OS, TVOS and Watch OS don't have an exclusive on them, Android has them, Windows has them, Google Chrome has them and other software like Jaws, Office, Adobe, Firefox they all have bugs as do all apps. This list is and should be about helping each other, answering each others questions and posting articles about some particularly cool app or accessory. The list is also about posting about bugs you discover or think you have discovered, sure you can point out your thoughts that Apple should do more or that Apple really should have fixed this or that bug already or during the Beta cycle, but I think these rants which then result in endless one-liners about how somebody is right or wrong or should go and get an Android phone if they aren't happy with the iPhone are just getting old, they usually
RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
Well said Sieghard! From: Sieghard Weitzel <siegh...@live.ca> To: "viphone@googlegroups.com" <viphone@googlegroups.com> Date: 2016/12/14 10:12 PM Subject: RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality ZDNet Pablo and others, You can find bunches of articles on anything on Google. I could send you 50 links of articles which praise Apple and iOS to high heaven, then I can send you just as many that are the complete opposite and the same applies to Google/Android. I can probably even find you some die-hard Blackberry fans who are posting that Blackberry is the best ever and both iOS and Android are complete BS. I don't think we have to get into what is better or if iOS is any good or anything like that. The point is that this is an iOS list, we are all here because we use iOS devices due to their very good level of accessibility. We all know there are bugs and that there always will be bugs. We all know that Apple with iOS, Mac OS, TVOS and Watch OS don't have an exclusive on them, Android has them, Windows has them, Google Chrome has them and other software like Jaws, Office, Adobe, Firefox they all have bugs as do all apps. This list is and should be about helping each other, answering each others questions and posting articles about some particularly cool app or accessory. The list is also about posting about bugs you discover or think you have discovered, sure you can point out your thoughts that Apple should do more or that Apple really should have fixed this or that bug already or during the Beta cycle, but I think these rants which then result in endless one-liners about how somebody is right or wrong or should go and get an Android phone if they aren't happy with the iPhone are just getting old, they usually just rephrase what has already been said a dozen times over. As you know very well yourself Android isn't all it's made out to be and while you say you totally would have an Android phone if you could see there are also thousands of ex-Android users who can see and who love their new iPhones after making the switch. Then of course there are those "happy" Android users who bought Samsung's new flagship Note 7 only to be surprised when the smoke hit the fan, if this had happened to the iPhone 7 Apple would have been crucified and in a much worse way than Samsung. Headlines like your ssubject "Apple has a serious problem with software quality" are typical link bait, you can go on Google and find lots of examples for either one, here is just one example that swings the other way from Forbes: "New Android Malware Strikes At Millions Of Smartphones". Sometimes you even find something that is more objective like the summary of this comparison article: iOS 10 vs Android 7.0 Nougat: Conclusion. In many respects, Android and iOS are very similar. They're both slick, refined, competent mobile operating systems. Each has its advantages and unique features, as well as frustrations and weaknesses. Regards, Sieghard From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pablo C. Morales Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 4:42 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet Look at this article, you can find bunches of them on google. http://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-has-a-serious-problem-with-software-quality/ -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com<mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can
Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
hello. considering there are rooting apps in the playstore, I have to disagree. Sent from Thunderbird On 15/12/2016 05:17 AM, Devin Prater wrote: Android only has real malware issues if one goes outside of the playstore. Same for any open computer, like Mac or Windows. On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 9:41 PM Christopher Chaltain <chalt...@gmail.com <mailto:chalt...@gmail.com>> wrote: There's much to agree with here, but the article referred to was from ZDNet, and that article did refer to another article which actually had some real information. It wasn't just anecdotal, and it wasn't just some rant from a guy in his basement with his own blog, which is what I was expecting. I would also think that quality of IOS and VoiceOver would be on topic for this list. It could also both be true that IOS has some quality issues and Android has some malware issues. They aren't mutually exclusive! Like I said, there's a lot to agree with below, such as how easy it would be for this to go off topic and just turn into bashing and not productive or constructive at all. On 14/12/16 21:11, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: > Pablo and others, > > > > You can find bunches of articles on anything on Google. I could send you > 50 links of articles which praise Apple and iOS to high heaven, then I > can send you just as many that are the complete opposite and the same > applies to Google/Android. I can probably even find you some die-hard > Blackberry fans who are posting that Blackberry is the best ever and > both iOS and Android are complete BS. I don't think we have to get into > what is better or if iOS is any good or anything like that. The point is > that this is an iOS list, we are all here because we use iOS devices due > to their very good level of accessibility. We all know there are bugs > and that there always will be bugs. We all know that Apple with iOS, > Mac OS, TVOS and Watch OS don't have an exclusive on them, Android has > them, Windows has them, Google Chrome has them and other software like > Jaws, Office, Adobe, Firefox they all have bugs as do all apps. > > This list is and should be about helping each other, answering each > others questions and posting articles about some particularly cool app > or accessory. The list is also about posting about bugs you discover or > think you have discovered, sure you can point out your thoughts that > Apple should do more or that Apple really should have fixed this or that > bug already or during the Beta cycle, but I think these rants which then > result in endless one-liners about how somebody is right or wrong or > should go and get an Android phone if they aren't happy with the iPhone > are just getting old, they usually just rephrase what has already been > said a dozen times over. As you know very well yourself Android isn't > all it's made out to be and while you say you totally would have an > Android phone if you could see there are also thousands of ex-Android > users who can see and who love their new iPhones after making the > switch. Then of course there are those "happy" Android users who bought > Samsung's new flagship Note 7 only to be surprised when the smoke hit > the fan, if this had happened to the iPhone 7 Apple would have been > /crucified and in a much worse way than Samsung./ > > Headlines like your ssubject "Apple has a serious problem with software > quality" are typical link bait, you can go on Google and find lots of > examples for either one, here is just one example that swings the other > way from Forbes: "New Android Malware Strikes At Millions Of Smartphones". > > Sometimes you even find something that is more objective like the > summary of this comparison article: > > iOS 10 vs Android 7.0 Nougat: Conclusion. > > In many respects, Android and iOS are very similar. They're both slick, > refined, competent mobile operating systems. Each has its advantages and > unique features, as well as frustrations and weaknesses. > > > > > > Regards, > > Sieghard > > > > *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>] *On > Behalf Of *Pablo C. Morales > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2016 4:42 PM > *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
Android only has real malware issues if one goes outside of the playstore. Same for any open computer, like Mac or Windows. On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 9:41 PM Christopher Chaltain <chalt...@gmail.com> wrote: > There's much to agree with here, but the article referred to was from > ZDNet, and that article did refer to another article which actually had > some real information. It wasn't just anecdotal, and it wasn't just some > rant from a guy in his basement with his own blog, which is what I was > expecting. > > I would also think that quality of IOS and VoiceOver would be on topic > for this list. > > It could also both be true that IOS has some quality issues and Android > has some malware issues. They aren't mutually exclusive! > > Like I said, there's a lot to agree with below, such as how easy it > would be for this to go off topic and just turn into bashing and not > productive or constructive at all. > > On 14/12/16 21:11, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: > > Pablo and others, > > > > > > > > You can find bunches of articles on anything on Google. I could send you > > 50 links of articles which praise Apple and iOS to high heaven, then I > > can send you just as many that are the complete opposite and the same > > applies to Google/Android. I can probably even find you some die-hard > > Blackberry fans who are posting that Blackberry is the best ever and > > both iOS and Android are complete BS. I don't think we have to get into > > what is better or if iOS is any good or anything like that. The point is > > that this is an iOS list, we are all here because we use iOS devices due > > to their very good level of accessibility. We all know there are bugs > > and that there always will be bugs. We all know that Apple with iOS, > > Mac OS, TVOS and Watch OS don't have an exclusive on them, Android has > > them, Windows has them, Google Chrome has them and other software like > > Jaws, Office, Adobe, Firefox they all have bugs as do all apps. > > > > This list is and should be about helping each other, answering each > > others questions and posting articles about some particularly cool app > > or accessory. The list is also about posting about bugs you discover or > > think you have discovered, sure you can point out your thoughts that > > Apple should do more or that Apple really should have fixed this or that > > bug already or during the Beta cycle, but I think these rants which then > > result in endless one-liners about how somebody is right or wrong or > > should go and get an Android phone if they aren't happy with the iPhone > > are just getting old, they usually just rephrase what has already been > > said a dozen times over. As you know very well yourself Android isn't > > all it's made out to be and while you say you totally would have an > > Android phone if you could see there are also thousands of ex-Android > > users who can see and who love their new iPhones after making the > > switch. Then of course there are those "happy" Android users who bought > > Samsung's new flagship Note 7 only to be surprised when the smoke hit > > the fan, if this had happened to the iPhone 7 Apple would have been > > /crucified and in a much worse way than Samsung./ > > > > Headlines like your ssubject "Apple has a serious problem with software > > quality" are typical link bait, you can go on Google and find lots of > > examples for either one, here is just one example that swings the other > > way from Forbes: "New Android Malware Strikes At Millions Of > Smartphones". > > > > Sometimes you even find something that is more objective like the > > summary of this comparison article: > > > > iOS 10 vs Android 7.0 Nougat: Conclusion. > > > > In many respects, Android and iOS are very similar. They're both slick, > > refined, competent mobile operating systems. Each has its advantages and > > unique features, as well as frustrations and weaknesses. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Sieghard > > > > > > > > *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] *On > > Behalf Of *Pablo C. Morales > > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2016 4:42 PM > > *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com > > *Subject:* Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet > > > > > > > > Look at this article, you can find bunches of them on > > google. > > > > > http://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-has-a-serious-problem-with-software-quality/ > > > > > > > > -- > &g
Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
There's much to agree with here, but the article referred to was from ZDNet, and that article did refer to another article which actually had some real information. It wasn't just anecdotal, and it wasn't just some rant from a guy in his basement with his own blog, which is what I was expecting. I would also think that quality of IOS and VoiceOver would be on topic for this list. It could also both be true that IOS has some quality issues and Android has some malware issues. They aren't mutually exclusive! Like I said, there's a lot to agree with below, such as how easy it would be for this to go off topic and just turn into bashing and not productive or constructive at all. On 14/12/16 21:11, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: Pablo and others, You can find bunches of articles on anything on Google. I could send you 50 links of articles which praise Apple and iOS to high heaven, then I can send you just as many that are the complete opposite and the same applies to Google/Android. I can probably even find you some die-hard Blackberry fans who are posting that Blackberry is the best ever and both iOS and Android are complete BS. I don't think we have to get into what is better or if iOS is any good or anything like that. The point is that this is an iOS list, we are all here because we use iOS devices due to their very good level of accessibility. We all know there are bugs and that there always will be bugs. We all know that Apple with iOS, Mac OS, TVOS and Watch OS don't have an exclusive on them, Android has them, Windows has them, Google Chrome has them and other software like Jaws, Office, Adobe, Firefox they all have bugs as do all apps. This list is and should be about helping each other, answering each others questions and posting articles about some particularly cool app or accessory. The list is also about posting about bugs you discover or think you have discovered, sure you can point out your thoughts that Apple should do more or that Apple really should have fixed this or that bug already or during the Beta cycle, but I think these rants which then result in endless one-liners about how somebody is right or wrong or should go and get an Android phone if they aren't happy with the iPhone are just getting old, they usually just rephrase what has already been said a dozen times over. As you know very well yourself Android isn't all it's made out to be and while you say you totally would have an Android phone if you could see there are also thousands of ex-Android users who can see and who love their new iPhones after making the switch. Then of course there are those "happy" Android users who bought Samsung's new flagship Note 7 only to be surprised when the smoke hit the fan, if this had happened to the iPhone 7 Apple would have been /crucified and in a much worse way than Samsung./ Headlines like your ssubject "Apple has a serious problem with software quality" are typical link bait, you can go on Google and find lots of examples for either one, here is just one example that swings the other way from Forbes: "New Android Malware Strikes At Millions Of Smartphones". Sometimes you even find something that is more objective like the summary of this comparison article: iOS 10 vs Android 7.0 Nougat: Conclusion. In many respects, Android and iOS are very similar. They're both slick, refined, competent mobile operating systems. Each has its advantages and unique features, as well as frustrations and weaknesses. Regards, Sieghard *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Pablo C. Morales *Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2016 4:42 PM *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet Look at this article, you can find bunches of them on google. http://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-has-a-serious-problem-with-software-quality/ -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https:/
RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
Pablo and others, You can find bunches of articles on anything on Google. I could send you 50 links of articles which praise Apple and iOS to high heaven, then I can send you just as many that are the complete opposite and the same applies to Google/Android. I can probably even find you some die-hard Blackberry fans who are posting that Blackberry is the best ever and both iOS and Android are complete BS. I don't think we have to get into what is better or if iOS is any good or anything like that. The point is that this is an iOS list, we are all here because we use iOS devices due to their very good level of accessibility. We all know there are bugs and that there always will be bugs. We all know that Apple with iOS, Mac OS, TVOS and Watch OS don't have an exclusive on them, Android has them, Windows has them, Google Chrome has them and other software like Jaws, Office, Adobe, Firefox they all have bugs as do all apps. This list is and should be about helping each other, answering each others questions and posting articles about some particularly cool app or accessory. The list is also about posting about bugs you discover or think you have discovered, sure you can point out your thoughts that Apple should do more or that Apple really should have fixed this or that bug already or during the Beta cycle, but I think these rants which then result in endless one-liners about how somebody is right or wrong or should go and get an Android phone if they aren't happy with the iPhone are just getting old, they usually just rephrase what has already been said a dozen times over. As you know very well yourself Android isn't all it's made out to be and while you say you totally would have an Android phone if you could see there are also thousands of ex-Android users who can see and who love their new iPhones after making the switch. Then of course there are those "happy" Android users who bought Samsung's new flagship Note 7 only to be surprised when the smoke hit the fan, if this had happened to the iPhone 7 Apple would have been crucified and in a much worse way than Samsung. Headlines like your ssubject "Apple has a serious problem with software quality" are typical link bait, you can go on Google and find lots of examples for either one, here is just one example that swings the other way from Forbes: "New Android Malware Strikes At Millions Of Smartphones". Sometimes you even find something that is more objective like the summary of this comparison article: iOS 10 vs Android 7.0 Nougat: Conclusion. In many respects, Android and iOS are very similar. They're both slick, refined, competent mobile operating systems. Each has its advantages and unique features, as well as frustrations and weaknesses. Regards, Sieghard From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pablo C. Morales Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 4:42 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet Look at this article, you can find bunches of them on google. http://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-has-a-serious-problem-with-software-quality/ -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com<mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
Look at this article, you can find bunches of them on google. http://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-has-a-serious-problem-with-software-quali ty/ -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.