Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

[Devin Prater]

I'm very sure Google has an accessibility number, but they also have a
mailing list with actual TalkBack developers on it. Try speaking with the
developers of Voiceover...

On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 4:59 PM Anthony Vece <ajv...@gmail.com> wrote:

> That's all well and good however; where do you get tech support if you get
> stuck on something? With Apple you can call there accessibility hotline?
> Can you call anyone for accessibility with  the android device? Thank you
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon iPhone 7!!!
>
> On Dec 16, 2016, at 9:00 PM, Devin Prater <r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yes, I agree Christopher. Android is an option now. If someone doesn't
> like where iOS is headed, switch to Android. That's not a snarky remark,
> either. It's an invitation.
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016, 6:47 PM Sieghard Weitzel <siegh...@live.ca> wrote:
>
> Not at all, Christopher, I am partial to iOS but I'm not an Apple fan boy
> in any extreme way. I said that "there are other things I may not like
> about Android. I want a
> platform that is rock solid, secure, super accessible and which offers a
> good feature set."
> As you see I said "platform" I didn't say I want "iOS to be rock solid
> etc.". Android maybe rock solid, I'm not using it so I can't say except for
> what I hear from friends who have used it or are using it. Anyhow, that
> wasn't my point, my point is that bitching in general about anything to
> people who can't do anything about it typically doesn't have much of a
> result and if it goes on too long it just ticks people off. I can complain
> all day long about our government, but if I don't vote I am not
> participating in an active way to change it. The same goes for any
> software, if I don't report bugs, maybe even participate in public beta
> programs and so on and all I do is complain to a group of people who
> already know the problems I am not helping. It doesn't matter if that is
> iOS, Android, Windows or whatever.
>
> Regards,
> Sieghard
>
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain
> Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 4:16 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
>
> This is just my opinion, but Sieghard, you make it sound like Android is
> not rock solid or secure, and that isn't how I feel. I do think Android and
> Talk Back are rock solid. IMHO, maybe even more so than IOS and VoiceOver.
> For what I use my phone for, I feel I run into fewer bugs on my S7 then I
> do on my iPhone, but obviously a lot of this is dependent on how someone
> uses their phone.
>
> I will grant that Android is not as secure as IOS, but I have yet to be
> compromised. I run some anti-malware software on my S7, and I'm careful on
> where I get apps. With this, I think Android is as secure as I need it to
> be. I'm willing to put up with some of Android's warts in order to take
> advantage of some of it's features, but obviously not everyone will be in
> the same boat.
>
> I'm not trying to sell anyone on Android, and it definitely has some
> issues that haven't been touched on in this thread. Apple and the iPhone
> are great choices, but I really believe we have two good options here for
> an accessible mobile platform, and it's great that people have this choice
> and can take advantages of the strengths in each platform.
>
> On 16/12/16 16:25, Sieghard Weitzel wrote:
> > Pablo and I guess Mario,
> >
> >
> >
> > I am only sending one more reply to this, after that any threads of
> > that nature become subject to my delete key.
> >
> > I am not defending Apple at all and totally agree that they need to
> > fix bugs and maintain the gold standard they set in accessibility. In
> > fact, they have to maintain it not only in accessibility but also in
> general.
> > Steve Jobbs used to say "It just works" when he introduced some new
> > device or feature and that is what people expect from Apple. I
> > couldn't care less about the latest fancy features Android may have
> > because there are other things I may not like about Android. I want a
> > platform that is rock solid, secure, super accessible and which offers a
> good feature set.
> >
> > Where you I think do not understand me is in what I am saying about
> > posting these rants about how Apple needs to get their act together on
> > this list. We are all blind or visually impaired on this list and want
> > iOS to be perfect. If I met with a group of 25 blind iOS users in
> > person once a month and each time I complained about how Apple 

Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

[Anthony Vece]

That's all well and good however; where do you get tech support if you get 
stuck on something? With Apple you can call there accessibility hotline? 
Can you call anyone for accessibility with  the android device? Thank you


Sent from my Verizon iPhone 7!!!

> On Dec 16, 2016, at 9:00 PM, Devin Prater <r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes, I agree Christopher. Android is an option now. If someone doesn't like 
> where iOS is headed, switch to Android. That's not a snarky remark, either. 
> It's an invitation.
> 
>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016, 6:47 PM Sieghard Weitzel <siegh...@live.ca> wrote:
>> Not at all, Christopher, I am partial to iOS but I'm not an Apple fan boy in 
>> any extreme way. I said that "there are other things I may not like about 
>> Android. I want a
>> platform that is rock solid, secure, super accessible and which offers a 
>> good feature set."
>> As you see I said "platform" I didn't say I want "iOS to be rock solid 
>> etc.". Android maybe rock solid, I'm not using it so I can't say except for 
>> what I hear from friends who have used it or are using it. Anyhow, that 
>> wasn't my point, my point is that bitching in general about anything to 
>> people who can't do anything about it typically doesn't have much of a 
>> result and if it goes on too long it just ticks people off. I can complain 
>> all day long about our government, but if I don't vote I am not 
>> participating in an active way to change it. The same goes for any software, 
>> if I don't report bugs, maybe even participate in public beta programs and 
>> so on and all I do is complain to a group of people who already know the 
>> problems I am not helping. It doesn't matter if that is iOS, Android, 
>> Windows or whatever.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Sieghard
>> 
>> -Original Message-----
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
>> Of Christopher Chaltain
>> Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 4:16 PM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
>> 
>> This is just my opinion, but Sieghard, you make it sound like Android is not 
>> rock solid or secure, and that isn't how I feel. I do think Android and Talk 
>> Back are rock solid. IMHO, maybe even more so than IOS and VoiceOver. For 
>> what I use my phone for, I feel I run into fewer bugs on my S7 then I do on 
>> my iPhone, but obviously a lot of this is dependent on how someone uses 
>> their phone.
>> 
>> I will grant that Android is not as secure as IOS, but I have yet to be 
>> compromised. I run some anti-malware software on my S7, and I'm careful on 
>> where I get apps. With this, I think Android is as secure as I need it to 
>> be. I'm willing to put up with some of Android's warts in order to take 
>> advantage of some of it's features, but obviously not everyone will be in 
>> the same boat.
>> 
>> I'm not trying to sell anyone on Android, and it definitely has some issues 
>> that haven't been touched on in this thread. Apple and the iPhone are great 
>> choices, but I really believe we have two good options here for an 
>> accessible mobile platform, and it's great that people have this choice and 
>> can take advantages of the strengths in each platform.
>> 
>> On 16/12/16 16:25, Sieghard Weitzel wrote:
>> > Pablo and I guess Mario,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I am only sending one more reply to this, after that any threads of
>> > that nature become subject to my delete key.
>> >
>> > I am not defending Apple at all and totally agree that they need to
>> > fix bugs and maintain the gold standard they set in accessibility. In
>> > fact, they have to maintain it not only in accessibility but also in 
>> > general.
>> > Steve Jobbs used to say "It just works" when he introduced some new
>> > device or feature and that is what people expect from Apple. I
>> > couldn't care less about the latest fancy features Android may have
>> > because there are other things I may not like about Android. I want a
>> > platform that is rock solid, secure, super accessible and which offers a 
>> > good feature set.
>> >
>> > Where you I think do not understand me is in what I am saying about
>> > posting these rants about how Apple needs to get their act together on
>> > this list. We are all blind or visually impaired on this list and want
>> > iOS to be perfect. If I met with a group of 25 blind iOS users in
>> > 

Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

[Christopher Chaltain]

Gotcha Sieghard, and I meant to say in my initial post that I totally 
agree with the point you're making.


BTW, I don't think of you as an Apple fan boy. I think of you as a 
pretty reasonable guy, and I know you use and respect multiple platforms.


On 16/12/16 18:47, Sieghard Weitzel wrote:

Not at all, Christopher, I am partial to iOS but I'm not an Apple fan boy in any 
extreme way. I said that "there are other things I may not like about Android. 
I want a
platform that is rock solid, secure, super accessible and which offers a good 
feature set."
As you see I said "platform" I didn't say I want "iOS to be rock solid etc.". 
Android maybe rock solid, I'm not using it so I can't say except for what I hear from friends who 
have used it or are using it. Anyhow, that wasn't my point, my point is that bitching in general 
about anything to people who can't do anything about it typically doesn't have much of a result and 
if it goes on too long it just ticks people off. I can complain all day long about our government, 
but if I don't vote I am not participating in an active way to change it. The same goes for any 
software, if I don't report bugs, maybe even participate in public beta programs and so on and all 
I do is complain to a group of people who already know the problems I am not helping. It doesn't 
matter if that is iOS, Android, Windows or whatever.

Regards,
Sieghard

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Christopher Chaltain
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 4:16 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

This is just my opinion, but Sieghard, you make it sound like Android is not 
rock solid or secure, and that isn't how I feel. I do think Android and Talk 
Back are rock solid. IMHO, maybe even more so than IOS and VoiceOver. For what 
I use my phone for, I feel I run into fewer bugs on my S7 then I do on my 
iPhone, but obviously a lot of this is dependent on how someone uses their 
phone.

I will grant that Android is not as secure as IOS, but I have yet to be 
compromised. I run some anti-malware software on my S7, and I'm careful on 
where I get apps. With this, I think Android is as secure as I need it to be. 
I'm willing to put up with some of Android's warts in order to take advantage 
of some of it's features, but obviously not everyone will be in the same boat.

I'm not trying to sell anyone on Android, and it definitely has some issues 
that haven't been touched on in this thread. Apple and the iPhone are great 
choices, but I really believe we have two good options here for an accessible 
mobile platform, and it's great that people have this choice and can take 
advantages of the strengths in each platform.

On 16/12/16 16:25, Sieghard Weitzel wrote:

Pablo and I guess Mario,



I am only sending one more reply to this, after that any threads of
that nature become subject to my delete key.

I am not defending Apple at all and totally agree that they need to
fix bugs and maintain the gold standard they set in accessibility. In
fact, they have to maintain it not only in accessibility but also in general.
Steve Jobbs used to say "It just works" when he introduced some new
device or feature and that is what people expect from Apple. I
couldn't care less about the latest fancy features Android may have
because there are other things I may not like about Android. I want a
platform that is rock solid, secure, super accessible and which offers a good 
feature set.

Where you I think do not understand me is in what I am saying about
posting these rants about how Apple needs to get their act together on
this list. We are all blind or visually impaired on this list and want
iOS to be perfect. If I met with a group of 25 blind iOS users in
person once a month and each time I complained about how Apple needs
to fix their bugs that is not productive. I need to tell Apple
Accessibility, you need to tell Apple Accessibility and every one of
the 25 guys I am meeting in my hypothetical monthly get-together needs
to tell Apple Accessibility. For this group this means we all need to
email and/or call Apple Accessibility and tell them. Telling each
other doesn't help, it's like if you have an arguement with a friend.
You resolve it by having an open and honest discussion with your
friend and not by telling another friend.

Now, if I discover a bug and want to verify that it's a bug everybody
experiences then I can of course post it to the list and get people's
feedback, but I post what I discovered and describe the behaviour, I
don't necessarily include a rant about how Apple should have never let
this bug happen in the first place. Maybe you want feedback from a
friend about how you should approach your other friend with whom you
have the arguement and then it's OK to discuss it with your other
friend, but you still need to go and h

Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

[Devin Prater]

Yes, I agree Christopher. Android is an option now. If someone doesn't like
where iOS is headed, switch to Android. That's not a snarky remark, either.
It's an invitation.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016, 6:47 PM Sieghard Weitzel <siegh...@live.ca> wrote:

> Not at all, Christopher, I am partial to iOS but I'm not an Apple fan boy
> in any extreme way. I said that "there are other things I may not like
> about Android. I want a
> platform that is rock solid, secure, super accessible and which offers a
> good feature set."
> As you see I said "platform" I didn't say I want "iOS to be rock solid
> etc.". Android maybe rock solid, I'm not using it so I can't say except for
> what I hear from friends who have used it or are using it. Anyhow, that
> wasn't my point, my point is that bitching in general about anything to
> people who can't do anything about it typically doesn't have much of a
> result and if it goes on too long it just ticks people off. I can complain
> all day long about our government, but if I don't vote I am not
> participating in an active way to change it. The same goes for any
> software, if I don't report bugs, maybe even participate in public beta
> programs and so on and all I do is complain to a group of people who
> already know the problems I am not helping. It doesn't matter if that is
> iOS, Android, Windows or whatever.
>
> Regards,
> Sieghard
>
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain
> Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 4:16 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
>
> This is just my opinion, but Sieghard, you make it sound like Android is
> not rock solid or secure, and that isn't how I feel. I do think Android and
> Talk Back are rock solid. IMHO, maybe even more so than IOS and VoiceOver.
> For what I use my phone for, I feel I run into fewer bugs on my S7 then I
> do on my iPhone, but obviously a lot of this is dependent on how someone
> uses their phone.
>
> I will grant that Android is not as secure as IOS, but I have yet to be
> compromised. I run some anti-malware software on my S7, and I'm careful on
> where I get apps. With this, I think Android is as secure as I need it to
> be. I'm willing to put up with some of Android's warts in order to take
> advantage of some of it's features, but obviously not everyone will be in
> the same boat.
>
> I'm not trying to sell anyone on Android, and it definitely has some
> issues that haven't been touched on in this thread. Apple and the iPhone
> are great choices, but I really believe we have two good options here for
> an accessible mobile platform, and it's great that people have this choice
> and can take advantages of the strengths in each platform.
>
> On 16/12/16 16:25, Sieghard Weitzel wrote:
> > Pablo and I guess Mario,
> >
> >
> >
> > I am only sending one more reply to this, after that any threads of
> > that nature become subject to my delete key.
> >
> > I am not defending Apple at all and totally agree that they need to
> > fix bugs and maintain the gold standard they set in accessibility. In
> > fact, they have to maintain it not only in accessibility but also in
> general.
> > Steve Jobbs used to say "It just works" when he introduced some new
> > device or feature and that is what people expect from Apple. I
> > couldn't care less about the latest fancy features Android may have
> > because there are other things I may not like about Android. I want a
> > platform that is rock solid, secure, super accessible and which offers a
> good feature set.
> >
> > Where you I think do not understand me is in what I am saying about
> > posting these rants about how Apple needs to get their act together on
> > this list. We are all blind or visually impaired on this list and want
> > iOS to be perfect. If I met with a group of 25 blind iOS users in
> > person once a month and each time I complained about how Apple needs
> > to fix their bugs that is not productive. I need to tell Apple
> > Accessibility, you need to tell Apple Accessibility and every one of
> > the 25 guys I am meeting in my hypothetical monthly get-together needs
> > to tell Apple Accessibility. For this group this means we all need to
> > email and/or call Apple Accessibility and tell them. Telling each
> > other doesn't help, it's like if you have an arguement with a friend.
> > You resolve it by having an open and honest discussion with your
> > friend and not by telling another friend.
> >
> > Now, if I discover a bug and want to

RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

[Sieghard Weitzel]

Not at all, Christopher, I am partial to iOS but I'm not an Apple fan boy in 
any extreme way. I said that "there are other things I may not like about 
Android. I want a 
platform that is rock solid, secure, super accessible and which offers a good 
feature set."
As you see I said "platform" I didn't say I want "iOS to be rock solid etc.". 
Android maybe rock solid, I'm not using it so I can't say except for what I 
hear from friends who have used it or are using it. Anyhow, that wasn't my 
point, my point is that bitching in general about anything to people who can't 
do anything about it typically doesn't have much of a result and if it goes on 
too long it just ticks people off. I can complain all day long about our 
government, but if I don't vote I am not participating in an active way to 
change it. The same goes for any software, if I don't report bugs, maybe even 
participate in public beta programs and so on and all I do is complain to a 
group of people who already know the problems I am not helping. It doesn't 
matter if that is iOS, Android, Windows or whatever.

Regards,
Sieghard

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Christopher Chaltain
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 4:16 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

This is just my opinion, but Sieghard, you make it sound like Android is not 
rock solid or secure, and that isn't how I feel. I do think Android and Talk 
Back are rock solid. IMHO, maybe even more so than IOS and VoiceOver. For what 
I use my phone for, I feel I run into fewer bugs on my S7 then I do on my 
iPhone, but obviously a lot of this is dependent on how someone uses their 
phone.

I will grant that Android is not as secure as IOS, but I have yet to be 
compromised. I run some anti-malware software on my S7, and I'm careful on 
where I get apps. With this, I think Android is as secure as I need it to be. 
I'm willing to put up with some of Android's warts in order to take advantage 
of some of it's features, but obviously not everyone will be in the same boat.

I'm not trying to sell anyone on Android, and it definitely has some issues 
that haven't been touched on in this thread. Apple and the iPhone are great 
choices, but I really believe we have two good options here for an accessible 
mobile platform, and it's great that people have this choice and can take 
advantages of the strengths in each platform.

On 16/12/16 16:25, Sieghard Weitzel wrote:
> Pablo and I guess Mario,
>
>
>
> I am only sending one more reply to this, after that any threads of 
> that nature become subject to my delete key.
>
> I am not defending Apple at all and totally agree that they need to 
> fix bugs and maintain the gold standard they set in accessibility. In 
> fact, they have to maintain it not only in accessibility but also in general.
> Steve Jobbs used to say "It just works" when he introduced some new 
> device or feature and that is what people expect from Apple. I 
> couldn't care less about the latest fancy features Android may have 
> because there are other things I may not like about Android. I want a 
> platform that is rock solid, secure, super accessible and which offers a good 
> feature set.
>
> Where you I think do not understand me is in what I am saying about 
> posting these rants about how Apple needs to get their act together on 
> this list. We are all blind or visually impaired on this list and want 
> iOS to be perfect. If I met with a group of 25 blind iOS users in 
> person once a month and each time I complained about how Apple needs 
> to fix their bugs that is not productive. I need to tell Apple 
> Accessibility, you need to tell Apple Accessibility and every one of 
> the 25 guys I am meeting in my hypothetical monthly get-together needs 
> to tell Apple Accessibility. For this group this means we all need to 
> email and/or call Apple Accessibility and tell them. Telling each 
> other doesn't help, it's like if you have an arguement with a friend. 
> You resolve it by having an open and honest discussion with your 
> friend and not by telling another friend.
>
> Now, if I discover a bug and want to verify that it's a bug everybody 
> experiences then I can of course post it to the list and get people's 
> feedback, but I post what I discovered and describe the behaviour, I 
> don't necessarily include a rant about how Apple should have never let 
> this bug happen in the first place. Maybe you want feedback from a 
> friend about how you should approach your other friend with whom you 
> have the arguement and then it's OK to discuss it with your other 
> friend, but you still need to go and have it out with the friend with 
> whom you have the arguement. In this 

Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

[Christopher Chaltain]

6 12:15 PM
*To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet



Hi Sieghard

I think that you haven’t read the whole threads in the last days. I said
so because you are replying this email without knowledge of why I am
posting this email. I recommend that you check about it in the last 2
days. Yes it is an IOs list, however it doesn’t mean that we cannot say
that apple is doing a bad job regarding software updates, and specially
fixing the problems that their software team are creating each IOs
update. Mario is right when he says that apple has to be more
responsible with their customers. I said something similar months ago,
when I complained about the usability of our phones and the time that
apple takes to fix bugs, and sometimes they just ignore the bugs and
release new IOs, with more bugs. Obviously Sieghard your attitude shows
a strong position in favor of apple, and you feel like ignoring what is
wrong. Your attitude is no helping the blind community, your attitude
defending apple when they are no fixing the bugs is going to fix apple
in the future. Your attitude is hurting the accessibility and hurting
apple too. You are defending a company that in the past had a very good
attitude with the software  and with the bugs  unrepaired of software.
You are defending them when they are no doing a good job. I posted those
links, no talking about android or blackberry, those web pages are
talking about the same point that we have been talking in the list these
las 2 days. Bugs, and bad quality of software. The android developers
are going to fix those problems?

No, you know that they are not going to do it. Apple is going to fix
this problems?

Obviously they are no putting a lot of interest fixing these problems,
they are more concern in the releases of new fancy IOs, than fixing the
bugs of those new fancy releases.

Who is going to fix these problems?

We, their customers. We need to call, we need to write, we need to do a
lot of noise because we are paying their checks with the products that
we are buying. It is how market works.

In the last emails  I have said, several times that liking or not.
Voiceover is the best choice for us. I am not saying that android
accessibility is better, no I didn’t said that. Read those emails and
you will see what is my position about it. I am not saying that Mario
and many others are wrong, no. They are right, apple is no doing a good
job with the software. But it doesn’t mean that I am saying that apple
bs, as you said.

I don’t use that vocabulary, I am not accustomed to do that.

However, saying that apple is great, and keeping your attitude of just
highlight the good things, are not going to improve the quality of apple
software. Calling, writing, making noise is what is going to improve the
software quality. I rather to write, to call, to make noise. I rather to
complain to apple about their low quality. Because I am living in The
United States where I have the right to complain about this kind of
things when I paid for that. I am using my right. More over this right
improves quality and it is what apple and customer’s needs. No just
saying that whoever said something that you don’t like about  apple, are
wrong.





*From:* viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
[mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Sieghard Weitzel
*Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2016 10:12 PM
*To:* viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
*Subject:* RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet



Pablo and others,



You can find bunches of articles on anything on Google. I could send you
50 links of articles which praise Apple and iOS to high heaven, then I
can send you just as many that are the complete opposite and the same
applies to Google/Android. I can probably even find you some die-hard
Blackberry fans who are posting that Blackberry is the best ever and
both iOS and Android are complete BS. I don't think we have to get into
what is better or if iOS is any good or anything like that. The point is
that this is an iOS list, we are all here because we use iOS devices due
to their very good level of accessibility. We all know there are bugs
and that there always will be bugs. We all  know that Apple with iOS,
Mac OS, TVOS and Watch OS don't have an exclusive on them, Android has
them, Windows has them, Google Chrome has them and other software like
Jaws, Office, Adobe, Firefox they all have bugs as do all apps.

This list is and should be about helping each other, answering each
others questions and posting articles about some particularly cool app
or accessory. The list is also about posting about bugs you discover or
think you have discovered, sure you can point out your thoughts that
Apple should do more or that Apple really should have fixed this or that
bug already or during the Beta cycle, but I think these rants which then
result in endless one-liners about

Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

[Brice Smith]

Furthermore, accessibility problems are not the only problems. There’s
a troubling tendency among consumers of assistive technology to
believe that if we didn’t use assistive technology, our user
experience would be perfect. But If you have an Android phone running
7.1.1, you might encounter problems with Bluetooth, reception, or
sound/speakers. And some iPhone users are concerned with battery,
VoLTE/LTE/Wifi and iCloud issues.

Technology is always changing and far from perfect.

On 12/16/16, Sieghard Weitzel <siegh...@live.ca> wrote:
> Pablo and I guess Mario,
>
> I am only sending one more reply to this, after that any threads of that
> nature become subject to my delete key.
> I am not defending Apple at all and totally agree that they need to fix bugs
> and maintain the gold standard they set in accessibility. In fact, they have
> to maintain it not only in accessibility but also in general. Steve Jobbs
> used to say "It just works" when he introduced some new device or feature
> and that is what people expect from Apple. I couldn't care less about the
> latest fancy features Android may have because there are other things I may
> not like about Android. I want a platform that is rock solid, secure, super
> accessible and which offers a good feature set.
> Where you I think do not understand me is in what I am saying about posting
> these rants about how Apple needs to get their act together on this list. We
> are all blind or visually impaired on this list and want iOS to be perfect.
> If I met with a group of 25 blind iOS users in person once a month and each
> time I complained about how Apple needs to fix their bugs that is not
> productive. I need to tell Apple Accessibility, you need to tell Apple
> Accessibility and every one of the 25 guys I am meeting in my hypothetical
> monthly get-together needs to tell Apple Accessibility. For this group this
> means we all need to email and/or call Apple Accessibility and tell them.
> Telling each other doesn't help, it's like if you have an arguement with a
> friend. You resolve it by having an open and honest discussion with your
> friend and not by telling another friend.
> Now, if I discover a bug and want to verify that it's a bug everybody
> experiences then I can of course post it to the list and get people's
> feedback, but I post what I discovered and describe the behaviour, I don't
> necessarily include a rant about how Apple should have never let this bug
> happen in the first place. Maybe you want feedback from a friend about how
> you should approach your other friend with whom you have the arguement and
> then it's OK to discuss it with your other friend, but you still need to go
> and have it out with the friend with whom you have the arguement. In this
> case the friend with whom you have the arguement is Apple, this list is your
> friend with whom you can talk about how you should handle it.
> If you want to tell the sighted world at large about Apple Accessibility and
> how Apple needs to do more than go right ahead, tell everybody at the bus
> stop or at the line up at the checkout counter or post it to the Google
> Community of Rob's Today in iOS Podcast, but complaining continuously on the
> Viphone list is like preaching to the choir, it doesn't help and it just
> makes most people want to whip you with Apple Earpods and Lightning cables
> *that was supposed to be a joke*.
> Anyhow, it just gets old, here we all know and experience the bugs and
> challenges with accessibility, we all want it to be better but it will only
> get better if Apple gets more and more feedback and good feedback which
> means good and detailed bug reports and not rants about how this should just
> all be fixed.
> Yes, sometimes it seems inexcusable how some bugs persist throughout a beta
> cycle or even multiple major releases of iOS. But to say Apple is not fixing
> bugs or that they are not improving accessibility with new features is
> garbage, I'm sure the team at Apple that is in charge of Voiceover and
> accessibility tries very hard and that they do all they can, but Apple is
> not just that team and I'm sure they are sometimes just as frustrated as you
> are that a new version gets released with new bugs or old bugs which haven't
> been fixed.
>
> Regards,
> Sieghard
>
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Pablo C. Morales
> Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 12:15 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
>
> Hi Sieghard
> I think that you haven’t read the whole threads in the last days. I said so
> because you are replying this email without knowledge of why I am posting
> this email. I recommend that you check about it in

RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

[Sieghard Weitzel]

Pablo and I guess Mario,

I am only sending one more reply to this, after that any threads of that nature 
become subject to my delete key.
I am not defending Apple at all and totally agree that they need to fix bugs 
and maintain the gold standard they set in accessibility. In fact, they have to 
maintain it not only in accessibility but also in general. Steve Jobbs used to 
say "It just works" when he introduced some new device or feature and that is 
what people expect from Apple. I couldn't care less about the latest fancy 
features Android may have because there are other things I may not like about 
Android. I want a platform that is rock solid, secure, super accessible and 
which offers a good feature set.
Where you I think do not understand me is in what I am saying about posting 
these rants about how Apple needs to get their act together on this list. We 
are all blind or visually impaired on this list and want iOS to be perfect. If 
I met with a group of 25 blind iOS users in person once a month and each time I 
complained about how Apple needs to fix their bugs that is not productive. I 
need to tell Apple Accessibility, you need to tell Apple Accessibility and 
every one of the 25 guys I am meeting in my hypothetical monthly get-together 
needs to tell Apple Accessibility. For this group this means we all need to 
email and/or call Apple Accessibility and tell them. Telling each other doesn't 
help, it's like if you have an arguement with a friend. You resolve it by 
having an open and honest discussion with your friend and not by telling 
another friend.
Now, if I discover a bug and want to verify that it's a bug everybody 
experiences then I can of course post it to the list and get people's feedback, 
but I post what I discovered and describe the behaviour, I don't necessarily 
include a rant about how Apple should have never let this bug happen in the 
first place. Maybe you want feedback from a friend about how you should 
approach your other friend with whom you have the arguement and then it's OK to 
discuss it with your other friend, but you still need to go and have it out 
with the friend with whom you have the arguement. In this case the friend with 
whom you have the arguement is Apple, this list is your friend with whom you 
can talk about how you should handle it.
If you want to tell the sighted world at large about Apple Accessibility and 
how Apple needs to do more than go right ahead, tell everybody at the bus stop 
or at the line up at the checkout counter or post it to the Google Community of 
Rob's Today in iOS Podcast, but complaining continuously on the Viphone list is 
like preaching to the choir, it doesn't help and it just makes most people want 
to whip you with Apple Earpods and Lightning cables *that was supposed to be a 
joke*.
Anyhow, it just gets old, here we all know and experience the bugs and 
challenges with accessibility, we all want it to be better but it will only get 
better if Apple gets more and more feedback and good feedback which means good 
and detailed bug reports and not rants about how this should just all be fixed.
Yes, sometimes it seems inexcusable how some bugs persist throughout a beta 
cycle or even multiple major releases of iOS. But to say Apple is not fixing 
bugs or that they are not improving accessibility with new features is garbage, 
I'm sure the team at Apple that is in charge of Voiceover and accessibility 
tries very hard and that they do all they can, but Apple is not just that team 
and I'm sure they are sometimes just as frustrated as you are that a new 
version gets released with new bugs or old bugs which haven't been fixed.

Regards,
Sieghard

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Pablo C. Morales
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 12:15 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

Hi Sieghard
I think that you haven’t read the whole threads in the last days. I said so 
because you are replying this email without knowledge of why I am posting this 
email. I recommend that you check about it in the last 2  days. Yes it is an 
IOs list, however it doesn’t mean that we cannot say that apple is doing a bad 
job regarding software updates, and specially fixing the problems that their 
software team are creating each IOs update. Mario is right when he says that 
apple has to be more responsible with their customers. I said something similar 
months ago, when I complained about the usability of our phones and the time 
that apple takes to fix bugs, and sometimes they just ignore the bugs and 
release new IOs, with more bugs. Obviously Sieghard your attitude shows a 
strong position in favor of apple, and you feel like ignoring what is wrong. 
Your attitude is no helping the blind community, your attitude defending apple 
when they are no fixing the bugs is going to fix apple in the future. Your 
attitude is hurting the acc

RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

[Pablo C. Morales]

Mario,

I think that you are right complaining in the email list about your problems 
with the last updates. I think that everybody have to do it. I think that we 
should do it. Here, at the school, at the bus stop, everywhere. As much people 
understand these problems, the power of our complains get stronger. If we just 
say that we have an IOs bug problem, and we just email apple, we have seen that 
this method is no working. It hasn’t been working since years ago.

If we make noise, the people sighted, or blind, with disabilities or without 
then, who are affected with IOs problems, will add their voices to our voices, 
so we will be heard strong and clearly.

 

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Mário Gabriel
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 2:57 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

 



 

Sorry Pablo.
it was not my intention put you in the same box.
But you can see how they do not value what you write.
You did not write anything or mention anything that now they accuse you ...
You only wrote the truth, but for them it is not worth anything.
Are you seeing Pablo as you are discriminated?
You tried to be fair in your post  but now you're accused of writing things you 
did not write.

It was me who wrote.

topic close.

cheers.

 

Às 18:32 de 16/12/2016, Pablo C. Morales escreveu:

Mister Ed.

Could you please show in the list, publicly in which email I am saying that I 
am being discriminated or segregated  due to my race?

Also, could you show in the list, publicly in which email about this topic, I 
am not saying that we need to do is complain to apple, call and send emails to 
them?

Mister Ed, you need to be so careful with your answers, because you are showing 
that you didn’t read my emails, and you are just generalizing putting Mario and 
Me in the same box, it is very similar than segregation, and obviously you are 
doing that due to our race. In any email I didn’t say that anybody is 
discriminating me, or that I feel that someone is segregating me because of my 
race, it is something that you are saying, no me. In all emails about this 
topic, I have saying over and over that we need to write to apple,  we need to 
call and complain about it.

About Sieghard, what I am saying that he always has showed a strong attitude in 
pro of apple, minimizing the IOs bugs, he always pretends to reduce the noise 
that people makes about the apple bugs. Again, what he is doing is against the 
accessibility. Against apple, and against himself. If we start to minimize the 
noise of people that is complaining about the IOs bugs, it will not fix the 
problem. He said  that we need to complain to apple, and stop complaining in 
the list. No, it is no positive for us. I said that we need to complain, here 
and everywhere, about this bugs. It is the way how apple will pay attention to 
these problems. Obviously apple is no so worry about fixing bugs, obviously 
apple has les interest fixing voice over bugs. You and everybody here know that 
we have bunches of bugs in voice over for years, and apple never fixed them. It 
shows lack of interest.

Why they have lack of interest?

Because we have people saying that all IOs have bugs, that don’t worry, it is 
an isolated problem, that this and that. Reducing the noise of people who is 
being affected for these bugs.

I think that Sieghard is doing good asking the people to write to apple, he is 
doing good asking to complain directly to apple. But we need to make these 
problems public in the list, we need to make these problems visible to the 
whole community.

Mister Ed, please be so careful with the answers that you are writing. Also I 
suggest that you read the emails before generalize about this.

Respectfully,

 

didn’t 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
[mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mr. Ed
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 12:15 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

 

Hi Mario and Pablo,

Neither one of you are being discriminated on this group. This has nothing to 
do with race of any kind. Sieghard was just pointing out that all smart phones 
have their issues. He did not say Apple was the best. He was just trying to say 
that all  software’s have glitches. As for Sieghard he is the first one to send 
an email to Apple support if he finds an issue. He also advises everyone else 
if they have an issue with Apple to contact tech support.  That is all he meant 
by his email. I think one issue you guys do not understand is to just contact 
Apple when there is an issue and not to keep whining about it over and over and 
over on the list. It’s ok to mention it and see if anyone else is having the 
same issue. So get off your high horses and don’t be throwing out the race c

Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

[Mário Gabriel]

Sorry Pablo.
it was not my intention put you in the same box.
But you can see how they do not value what you write.
You did not write anything or mention anything that now they accuse you ...
You only wrote the truth, but for them it is not worth anything.
Are you seeing Pablo as you are discriminated?
You tried to be fair in your post  but now you're accused of writing 
things you did not write.


It was me who wrote.

topic close.

cheers.


Às 18:32 de 16/12/2016, Pablo C. Morales escreveu:


Mister Ed.

Could you please show in the list, publicly in which email I am saying 
that I am being discriminated or segregated  due to my race?


Also, could you show in the list, publicly in which email about this 
topic, I am not saying that we need to do is complain to apple, call 
and send emails to them?


Mister Ed, you need to be so careful with your answers, because you 
are showing that you didn’t read my emails, and you are just 
generalizing putting Mario and Me in the same box, it is very similar 
than segregation, and obviously you are doing that due to our race. In 
any email I didn’t say that anybody is discriminating me, or that I 
feel that someone is segregating me because of my race, it is 
something that you are saying, no me. In all emails about this topic, 
I have saying over and over that we need to write to apple,  we need 
to call and complain about it.


About Sieghard, what I am saying that he always has showed a strong 
attitude in pro of apple, minimizing the IOs bugs, he always pretends 
to reduce the noise that people makes about the apple bugs. Again, 
what he is doing is against the accessibility. Against apple, and 
against himself. If we start to minimize the noise of people that is 
complaining about the IOs bugs, it will not fix the problem. He said 
 that we need to complain to apple, and stop complaining in the list. 
No, it is no positive for us. I said that we need to complain, here 
and everywhere, about this bugs. It is the way how apple will pay 
attention to these problems. Obviously apple is no so worry about 
fixing bugs, obviously apple has les interest fixing voice over bugs. 
You and everybody here know that we have bunches of bugs in voice over 
for years, and apple never fixed them. It shows lack of interest.


Why they have lack of interest?

Because we have people saying that all IOs have bugs, that don’t 
worry, it is an isolated problem, that this and that. Reducing the 
noise of people who is being affected for these bugs.


I think that Sieghard is doing good asking the people to write to 
apple, he is doing good asking to complain directly to apple. But we 
need to make these problems public in the list, we need to make these 
problems visible to the whole community.


Mister Ed, please be so careful with the answers that you are writing. 
Also I suggest that you read the emails before generalize about this.


Respectfully,

didn’t

*From:*viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] *On 
Behalf Of *Mr. Ed

*Sent:* Friday, December 16, 2016 12:15 PM
*To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

Hi Mario and Pablo,

Neither one of you are being discriminated on this group. This has 
nothing to do with race of any kind. Sieghard was just pointing out 
that all smart phones have their issues. He did not say Apple was the 
best. He was just trying to say that all  software’s have glitches. As 
for Sieghard he is the first one to send an email to Apple support if 
he finds an issue. He also advises everyone else if they have an issue 
with Apple to contact tech support.  That is all he meant by his 
email. I think one issue you guys do not understand is to just contact 
Apple when there is an issue and not to keep whining about it over and 
over and over on the list. It’s ok to mention it and see if anyone 
else is having the same issue. So get off your high horses and don’t 
be throwing out the race card.


Mr. Ed

*From:*viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
[mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Mário Gabriel

*Sent:* Friday, December 16, 2016 5:34 AM
*To:* viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
*Subject:* Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet


Wow, Pablo.
I make mine, your words.
Some American people do not admit or like to hear the truth.
They always discriminate the intelligence of those who are not 
American ...
And that's why in the past you were discriminated and insulted in this 
group.

I was here at that time and I heard all the bad things about you.
I am also discriminated in this group, and this will never change.
They always want to be right and do not admit that non-Americans have 
an opinion and are above them ...

But I always say what I think, because I am free and I have my rights.

If they treat me badly, I treat them badly.
If they treat me well, I treat them well.
cheers.

Às

RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

[Mr. Ed]

Hi Pablo,

I apologize to you for putting you in the same email with Mario in regards to 
the race issue. I do read all emails and have listen to you complain and 
complain when you were on this list about a year ago before you left it. Now I 
know why you were gone as you stated in one of your emails that you tried out 
an Android phone. I give you credit as you at least went and tried one compared 
to Mario who just likes to complain all the time but does not write and emails 
to Apple support.

So once again I apologize for including you in my email regarding the race 
issue or any other statement I made in any email. That is not my intent   to 
harm anyone. I was just trying to make you guys realize that by your constant 
complaining on the list is not going to solve the issue with IOS. That why you 
need to voice your issues with Apple support. No one is denying there are bugs 
and some are fix and some are not. 

Mr. Ed 

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Pablo C. Morales
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 12:32 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

 

Mister Ed.

Could you please show in the list, publicly in which email I am saying that I 
am being discriminated or segregated  due to my race?

Also, could you show in the list, publicly in which email about this topic, I 
am not saying that we need to do is complain to apple, call and send emails to 
them?

Mister Ed, you need to be so careful with your answers, because you are showing 
that you didn’t read my emails, and you are just generalizing putting Mario and 
Me in the same box, it is very similar than segregation, and obviously you are 
doing that due to our race. In any email I didn’t say that anybody is 
discriminating me, or that I feel that someone is segregating me because of my 
race, it is something that you are saying, no me. In all emails about this 
topic, I have saying over and over that we need to write to apple,  we need to 
call and complain about it.

About Sieghard, what I am saying that he always has showed a strong attitude in 
pro of apple, minimizing the IOs bugs, he always pretends to reduce the noise 
that people makes about the apple bugs. Again, what he is doing is against the 
accessibility. Against apple, and against himself. If we start to minimize the 
noise of people that is complaining about the IOs bugs, it will not fix the 
problem. He said  that we need to complain to apple, and stop complaining in 
the list. No, it is no positive for us. I said that we need to complain, here 
and everywhere, about this bugs. It is the way how apple will pay attention to 
these problems. Obviously apple is no so worry about fixing bugs, obviously 
apple has les interest fixing voice over bugs. You and everybody here know that 
we have bunches of bugs in voice over for years, and apple never fixed them. It 
shows lack of interest.

Why they have lack of interest?

Because we have people saying that all IOs have bugs, that don’t worry, it is 
an isolated problem, that this and that. Reducing the noise of people who is 
being affected for these bugs.

I think that Sieghard is doing good asking the people to write to apple, he is 
doing good asking to complain directly to apple. But we need to make these 
problems public in the list, we need to make these problems visible to the 
whole community.

Mister Ed, please be so careful with the answers that you are writing. Also I 
suggest that you read the emails before generalize about this.

Respectfully,

 

didn’t 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Mr. Ed
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 12:15 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

 

Hi Mario and Pablo,

Neither one of you are being discriminated on this group. This has nothing to 
do with race of any kind. Sieghard was just pointing out that all smart phones 
have their issues. He did not say Apple was the best. He was just trying to say 
that all  software’s have glitches. As for Sieghard he is the first one to send 
an email to Apple support if he finds an issue. He also advises everyone else 
if they have an issue with Apple to contact tech support.  That is all he meant 
by his email. I think one issue you guys do not understand is to just contact 
Apple when there is an issue and not to keep whining about it over and over and 
over on the list. It’s ok to mention it and see if anyone else is having the 
same issue. So get off your high horses and don’t be throwing out the race card.

Mr. Ed  

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Mário Gabriel
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 5:34 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

 



 


Wow, Pablo.
I make mine, your words.
Some American people do

RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

[Pablo C. Morales]

Mister Ed.

Could you please show in the list, publicly in which email I am saying that I 
am being discriminated or segregated  due to my race?

Also, could you show in the list, publicly in which email about this topic, I 
am not saying that we need to do is complain to apple, call and send emails to 
them?

Mister Ed, you need to be so careful with your answers, because you are showing 
that you didn’t read my emails, and you are just generalizing putting Mario and 
Me in the same box, it is very similar than segregation, and obviously you are 
doing that due to our race. In any email I didn’t say that anybody is 
discriminating me, or that I feel that someone is segregating me because of my 
race, it is something that you are saying, no me. In all emails about this 
topic, I have saying over and over that we need to write to apple,  we need to 
call and complain about it.

About Sieghard, what I am saying that he always has showed a strong attitude in 
pro of apple, minimizing the IOs bugs, he always pretends to reduce the noise 
that people makes about the apple bugs. Again, what he is doing is against the 
accessibility. Against apple, and against himself. If we start to minimize the 
noise of people that is complaining about the IOs bugs, it will not fix the 
problem. He said  that we need to complain to apple, and stop complaining in 
the list. No, it is no positive for us. I said that we need to complain, here 
and everywhere, about this bugs. It is the way how apple will pay attention to 
these problems. Obviously apple is no so worry about fixing bugs, obviously 
apple has les interest fixing voice over bugs. You and everybody here know that 
we have bunches of bugs in voice over for years, and apple never fixed them. It 
shows lack of interest.

Why they have lack of interest?

Because we have people saying that all IOs have bugs, that don’t worry, it is 
an isolated problem, that this and that. Reducing the noise of people who is 
being affected for these bugs.

I think that Sieghard is doing good asking the people to write to apple, he is 
doing good asking to complain directly to apple. But we need to make these 
problems public in the list, we need to make these problems visible to the 
whole community.

Mister Ed, please be so careful with the answers that you are writing. Also I 
suggest that you read the emails before generalize about this.

Respectfully,

 

didn’t 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Mr. Ed
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 12:15 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

 

Hi Mario and Pablo,

Neither one of you are being discriminated on this group. This has nothing to 
do with race of any kind. Sieghard was just pointing out that all smart phones 
have their issues. He did not say Apple was the best. He was just trying to say 
that all  software’s have glitches. As for Sieghard he is the first one to send 
an email to Apple support if he finds an issue. He also advises everyone else 
if they have an issue with Apple to contact tech support.  That is all he meant 
by his email. I think one issue you guys do not understand is to just contact 
Apple when there is an issue and not to keep whining about it over and over and 
over on the list. It’s ok to mention it and see if anyone else is having the 
same issue. So get off your high horses and don’t be throwing out the race card.

Mr. Ed  

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
[mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mário Gabriel
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 5:34 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

 



 


Wow, Pablo.
I make mine, your words.
Some American people do not admit or like to hear the truth.
They always discriminate the intelligence of those who are not American ...
And that's why in the past you were discriminated and insulted in this group.
I was here at that time and I heard all the bad things about you.
I am also discriminated in this group, and this will never change.
They always want to be right and do not admit that non-Americans have an 
opinion and are above them ...
But I always say what I think, because I am free and I have my rights.

If they treat me badly, I treat them badly.
If they treat me well, I treat them well.
cheers.

 

Às 20:15 de 15/12/2016, Pablo C. Morales escreveu:

Hi Sieghard

I think that you haven’t read the whole threads in the last days. I said so 
because you are replying this email without knowledge of why I am posting this 
email. I recommend that you check about it in the last 2  days. Yes it is an 
IOs list, however it doesn’t mean that we cannot say that apple is doing a bad 
job regarding software updates, and specially fixing the problems that their 
software team are creating each IOs update. Ma

Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

[pegkane52]

Thank you for that reply I've been waiting a while before I said something 
really appreciate it very true.

Peggy Sent from my IPhone.


> On Dec 16, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Mr. Ed <pink...@abe.midco.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi Mario and Pablo,
> Neither one of you are being discriminated on this group. This has nothing to 
> do with race of any kind. Sieghard was just pointing out that all smart 
> phones have their issues. He did not say Apple was the best. He was just 
> trying to say that all  software’s have glitches. As for Sieghard he is the 
> first one to send an email to Apple support if he finds an issue. He also 
> advises everyone else if they have an issue with Apple to contact tech 
> support.  That is all he meant by his email. I think one issue you guys do 
> not understand is to just contact Apple when there is an issue and not to 
> keep whining about it over and over and over on the list. It’s ok to mention 
> it and see if anyone else is having the same issue. So get off your high 
> horses and don’t be throwing out the race card.
> Mr. Ed  
>  
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> Mário Gabriel
> Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 5:34 AM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
>  
>
> 
>  
> 
> 
> Wow, Pablo.
> I make mine, your words.
> Some American people do not admit or like to hear the truth.
> They always discriminate the intelligence of those who are not American ...
> And that's why in the past you were discriminated and insulted in this group.
> I was here at that time and I heard all the bad things about you.
> I am also discriminated in this group, and this will never change.
> They always want to be right and do not admit that non-Americans have an 
> opinion and are above them ...
> But I always say what I think, because I am free and I have my rights.
> 
> If they treat me badly, I treat them badly.
> If they treat me well, I treat them well.
> cheers.
> 
>  
> Às 20:15 de 15/12/2016, Pablo C. Morales escreveu:
> Hi Sieghard
> I think that you haven’t read the whole threads in the last days. I said so 
> because you are replying this email without knowledge of why I am posting 
> this email. I recommend that you check about it in the last 2  days. Yes it 
> is an IOs list, however it doesn’t mean that we cannot say that apple is 
> doing a bad job regarding software updates, and specially fixing the problems 
> that their software team are creating each IOs update. Mario is right when he 
> says that apple has to be more responsible with their customers. I said 
> something similar months ago, when I complained about the usability of our 
> phones and the time that apple takes to fix bugs, and sometimes they just 
> ignore the bugs and release new IOs, with more bugs. Obviously Sieghard your 
> attitude shows a strong position in favor of apple, and you feel like 
> ignoring what is wrong. Your attitude is no helping the blind community, your 
> attitude defending apple when they are no fixing the bugs is going to fix 
> apple in the future. Your attitude is hurting the accessibility and hurting 
> apple too. You are defending a company that in the past had a very good 
> attitude with the software  and with the bugs  unrepaired of software. You 
> are defending them when they are no doing a good job. I posted those links, 
> no talking about android or blackberry, those web pages are talking about the 
> same point that we have been talking in the list these las 2 days. Bugs, and 
> bad quality of software. The android developers are going to fix those 
> problems?
> No, you know that they are not going to do it. Apple is going to fix this 
> problems?
> Obviously they are no putting a lot of interest fixing these problems, they 
> are more concern in the releases of new fancy IOs, than fixing the bugs of 
> those new fancy releases.
> Who is going to fix these problems?
> We, their customers. We need to call, we need to write, we need to do a lot 
> of noise because we are paying their checks with the products that we are 
> buying. It is how market works.
> In the last emails  I have said, several times that liking or not. Voiceover 
> is the best choice for us. I am not saying that android accessibility is 
> better, no I didn’t said that. Read those emails and you will see what is my 
> position about it. I am not saying that Mario and many others are wrong, no. 
> They are right, apple is no doing a good job with the software. But it 
> doesn’t mean that I am saying that apple bs, as you said.
> I don’t use that vocabulary, I am not accustomed to do that.
> However, saying that apple is great, and

RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

[Mr. Ed]

Hi Mario and Pablo,

Neither one of you are being discriminated on this group. This has nothing to 
do with race of any kind. Sieghard was just pointing out that all smart phones 
have their issues. He did not say Apple was the best. He was just trying to say 
that all  software’s have glitches. As for Sieghard he is the first one to send 
an email to Apple support if he finds an issue. He also advises everyone else 
if they have an issue with Apple to contact tech support.  That is all he meant 
by his email. I think one issue you guys do not understand is to just contact 
Apple when there is an issue and not to keep whining about it over and over and 
over on the list. It’s ok to mention it and see if anyone else is having the 
same issue. So get off your high horses and don’t be throwing out the race card.

Mr. Ed  

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Mário Gabriel
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 5:34 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

 



 


Wow, Pablo.
I make mine, your words.
Some American people do not admit or like to hear the truth.
They always discriminate the intelligence of those who are not American ...
And that's why in the past you were discriminated and insulted in this group.
I was here at that time and I heard all the bad things about you.
I am also discriminated in this group, and this will never change.
They always want to be right and do not admit that non-Americans have an 
opinion and are above them ...
But I always say what I think, because I am free and I have my rights.

If they treat me badly, I treat them badly.
If they treat me well, I treat them well.
cheers.

 

Às 20:15 de 15/12/2016, Pablo C. Morales escreveu:

Hi Sieghard

I think that you haven’t read the whole threads in the last days. I said so 
because you are replying this email without knowledge of why I am posting this 
email. I recommend that you check about it in the last 2  days. Yes it is an 
IOs list, however it doesn’t mean that we cannot say that apple is doing a bad 
job regarding software updates, and specially fixing the problems that their 
software team are creating each IOs update. Mario is right when he says that 
apple has to be more responsible with their customers. I said something similar 
months ago, when I complained about the usability of our phones and the time 
that apple takes to fix bugs, and sometimes they just ignore the bugs and 
release new IOs, with more bugs. Obviously Sieghard your attitude shows a 
strong position in favor of apple, and you feel like ignoring what is wrong. 
Your attitude is no helping the blind community, your attitude defending apple 
when they are no fixing the bugs is going to fix apple in the future. Your 
attitude is hurting the accessibility and hurting apple too. You are defending 
a company that in the past had a very good attitude with the software  and with 
the bugs  unrepaired of software. You are defending them when they are no doing 
a good job. I posted those links, no talking about android or blackberry, those 
web pages are talking about the same point that we have been talking in the 
list these las 2 days. Bugs, and bad quality of software. The android 
developers are going to fix those problems?

No, you know that they are not going to do it. Apple is going to fix this 
problems?

Obviously they are no putting a lot of interest fixing these problems, they are 
more concern in the releases of new fancy IOs, than fixing the bugs of those 
new fancy releases.

Who is going to fix these problems?

We, their customers. We need to call, we need to write, we need to do a lot of 
noise because we are paying their checks with the products that we are buying. 
It is how market works.

In the last emails  I have said, several times that liking or not. Voiceover is 
the best choice for us. I am not saying that android accessibility is better, 
no I didn’t said that. Read those emails and you will see what is my position 
about it. I am not saying that Mario and many others are wrong, no. They are 
right, apple is no doing a good job with the software. But it doesn’t mean that 
I am saying that apple bs, as you said.

I don’t use that vocabulary, I am not accustomed to do that.

However, saying that apple is great, and keeping your attitude of just 
highlight the good things, are not going to improve the quality of apple 
software. Calling, writing, making noise is what is going to improve the 
software quality. I rather to write, to call, to make noise. I rather to 
complain to apple about their low quality. Because I am living in The United 
States where I have the right to complain about this kind of things when I paid 
for that. I am using my right. More over this right improves quality and it is 
what apple and customer’s needs. No just saying that whoever said something 
that you don’t like about  apple, are wrong

Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

[alia robinson]

this is direct bashing, and should not be allowed on list.
> On Dec 16, 2016, at 6:33 AM, Mário Gabriel  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, Pablo.
> I make mine, your words.
> Some American people do not admit or like to hear the truth.
> They always discriminate the intelligence of those who are not American

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Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

[Mário Gabriel]

Wow, Pablo.
I make mine, your words.
Some American people do not admit or like to hear the truth.
They always discriminate the intelligence of those who are not American ...
And that's why in the past you were discriminated and insulted in this 
group.

I was here at that time and I heard all the bad things about you.
I am also discriminated in this group, and this will never change.
They always want to be right and do not admit that non-Americans have an 
opinion and are above them ...

But I always say what I think, because I am free and I have my rights.

If they treat me badly, I treat them badly.
If they treat me well, I treat them well.
cheers.


Às 20:15 de 15/12/2016, Pablo C. Morales escreveu:


Hi Sieghard

I think that you haven’t read the whole threads in the last days. I 
said so because you are replying this email without knowledge of why I 
am posting this email. I recommend that you check about it in the last 
2  days. Yes it is an IOs list, however it doesn’t mean that we cannot 
say that apple is doing a bad job regarding software updates, and 
specially fixing the problems that their software team are creating 
each IOs update. Mario is right when he says that apple has to be more 
responsible with their customers. I said something similar months ago, 
when I complained about the usability of our phones and the time that 
apple takes to fix bugs, and sometimes they just ignore the bugs and 
release new IOs, with more bugs. Obviously Sieghard your attitude 
shows a strong position in favor of apple, and you feel like ignoring 
what is wrong. Your attitude is no helping the blind community, your 
attitude defending apple when they are no fixing the bugs is going to 
fix apple in the future. Your attitude is hurting the accessibility 
and hurting apple too. You are defending a company that in the past 
had a very good attitude with the software  and with the bugs  
unrepaired of software. You are defending them when they are no doing 
a good job. I posted those links, no talking about android or 
blackberry, those web pages are talking about the same point that we 
have been talking in the list these las 2 days. Bugs, and bad quality 
of software. The android developers are going to fix those problems?


No, you know that they are not going to do it. Apple is going to fix 
this problems?


Obviously they are no putting a lot of interest fixing these problems, 
they are more concern in the releases of new fancy IOs, than fixing 
the bugs of those new fancy releases.


Who is going to fix these problems?

We, their customers. We need to call, we need to write, we need to do 
a lot of noise because we are paying their checks with the products 
that we are buying. It is how market works.


In the last emails  I have said, several times that liking or not. 
Voiceover is the best choice for us. I am not saying that android 
accessibility is better, no I didn’t said that. Read those emails and 
you will see what is my position about it. I am not saying that Mario 
and many others are wrong, no. They are right, apple is no doing a 
good job with the software. But it doesn’t mean that I am saying that 
apple bs, as you said.


I don’t use that vocabulary, I am not accustomed to do that.

However, saying that apple is great, and keeping your attitude of just 
highlight the good things, are not going to improve the quality of 
apple software. Calling, writing, making noise is what is going to 
improve the software quality. I rather to write, to call, to make 
noise. I rather to complain to apple about their low quality. Because 
I am living in The United States where I have the right to complain 
about this kind of things when I paid for that. I am using my right. 
More over this right improves quality and it is what apple and 
customer’s needs. No just saying that whoever said something that you 
don’t like about  apple, are wrong.


*From:* viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] *On 
Behalf Of *Sieghard Weitzel

*Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2016 10:12 PM
*To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

Pablo and others,

You can find bunches of articles on anything on Google. I could send 
you 50 links of articles which praise Apple and iOS to high heaven, 
then I can send you just as many that are the complete opposite and 
the same applies to Google/Android. I can probably even find you some 
die-hard Blackberry fans who are posting that Blackberry is the best 
ever and both iOS and Android are complete BS. I don't think we have 
to get into what is better or if iOS is any good or anything like 
that. The point is that this is an iOS list, we are all here because 
we use iOS devices due to their very good level of accessibility. We 
all know there are bugs and that there always will be bugs. We all  
know that Apple with iOS, Mac OS, TVOS and Watch OS don't have an 
exclusive on them, Android has them, Windows has

Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

[Devin Prater]

Pablo, I agree. also, you can, as I did, pay with your wallet. No, not the
wallet app, lol. I bought an android phone, and a new version of Talkback
is already out, fixing bugs and adding features. I'd much rather be a part
of something that at least moves forward, rather tan stands still.

On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 2:15 PM Pablo C. Morales <pablocmd2...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Sieghard
>
> I think that you haven’t read the whole threads in the last days. I said
> so because you are replying this email without knowledge of why I am
> posting this email. I recommend that you check about it in the last 2
> days. Yes it is an IOs list, however it doesn’t mean that we cannot say
> that apple is doing a bad job regarding software updates, and specially
> fixing the problems that their software team are creating each IOs update.
> Mario is right when he says that apple has to be more responsible with
> their customers. I said something similar months ago, when I complained
> about the usability of our phones and the time that apple takes to fix
> bugs, and sometimes they just ignore the bugs and release new IOs, with
> more bugs. Obviously Sieghard your attitude shows a strong position in
> favor of apple, and you feel like ignoring what is wrong. Your attitude is
> no helping the blind community, your attitude defending apple when they are
> no fixing the bugs is going to fix apple in the future. Your attitude is
> hurting the accessibility and hurting apple too. You are defending a
> company that in the past had a very good attitude with the software  and
> with the bugs  unrepaired of software. You are defending them when they are
> no doing a good job. I posted those links, no talking about android or
> blackberry, those web pages are talking about the same point that we have
> been talking in the list these las 2 days. Bugs, and bad quality of
> software. The android developers are going to fix those problems?
>
> No, you know that they are not going to do it. Apple is going to fix this
> problems?
>
> Obviously they are no putting a lot of interest fixing these problems,
> they are more concern in the releases of new fancy IOs, than fixing the
> bugs of those new fancy releases.
>
> Who is going to fix these problems?
>
> We, their customers. We need to call, we need to write, we need to do a
> lot of noise because we are paying their checks with the products that we
> are buying. It is how market works.
>
> In the last emails  I have said, several times that liking or not.
> Voiceover is the best choice for us. I am not saying that android
> accessibility is better, no I didn’t said that. Read those emails and you
> will see what is my position about it. I am not saying that Mario and many
> others are wrong, no. They are right, apple is no doing a good job with the
> software. But it doesn’t mean that I am saying that apple bs, as you said.
>
> I don’t use that vocabulary, I am not accustomed to do that.
>
> However, saying that apple is great, and keeping your attitude of just
> highlight the good things, are not going to improve the quality of apple
> software. Calling, writing, making noise is what is going to improve the
> software quality. I rather to write, to call, to make noise. I rather to
> complain to apple about their low quality. Because I am living in The
> United States where I have the right to complain about this kind of things
> when I paid for that. I am using my right. More over this right improves
> quality and it is what apple and customer’s needs. No just saying that
> whoever said something that you don’t like about  apple, are wrong.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Sieghard Weitzel
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2016 10:12 PM
> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
>
>
>
> Pablo and others,
>
>
>
> You can find bunches of articles on anything on Google. I could send you
> 50 links of articles which praise Apple and iOS to high heaven, then I can
> send you just as many that are the complete opposite and the same applies
> to Google/Android. I can probably even find you some die-hard Blackberry
> fans who are posting that Blackberry is the best ever and both iOS and
> Android are complete BS. I don't think we have to get into what is better
> or if iOS is any good or anything like that. The point is that this is an
> iOS list, we are all here because we use iOS devices due to their very good
> level of accessibility. We all know there are bugs and that there always
> will be bugs. We all  know that Apple with iOS, Mac OS, TVOS and Watch OS
> don't have an exclusive on them, Android has them, 

RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

[Pablo C. Morales]

Well guys,

We own apple devices. If the quality of software is decreasing the usability of 
our phones, apple watches, iPads, etc. We need to complained to apple. We need 
to talk to them, we need to email them, we need to make noise, we need to make 
public these problems, so apple will take care about it. But no saying anything 
about this bugs, or defending the negligence of apple software developers, or 
just making noise at home. We are no doing anything.

We need to write, call, make public these problems. So apple seeing that their 
pocket is going to lose some money, then they will improve the software quality.

 

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Devin Prater
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 12:18 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

 

Android only has real malware issues if one goes outside of the playstore. Same 
for any open computer, like Mac or Windows.

 

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 9:41 PM Christopher Chaltain <chalt...@gmail.com 
<mailto:chalt...@gmail.com> > wrote:

There's much to agree with here, but the article referred to was from
ZDNet, and that article did refer to another article which actually had
some real information. It wasn't just anecdotal, and it wasn't just some
rant from a guy in his basement with his own blog, which is what I was
expecting.

I would also think that quality of IOS and VoiceOver would be on topic
for this list.

It could also both be true that IOS has some quality issues and Android
has some malware issues. They aren't mutually exclusive!

Like I said, there's a lot to agree with below, such as how easy it
would be for this to go off topic and just turn into bashing and not
productive or constructive at all.

On 14/12/16 21:11, Sieghard Weitzel wrote:
> Pablo and others,
>
>
>
> You can find bunches of articles on anything on Google. I could send you
> 50 links of articles which praise Apple and iOS to high heaven, then I
> can send you just as many that are the complete opposite and the same
> applies to Google/Android. I can probably even find you some die-hard
> Blackberry fans who are posting that Blackberry is the best ever and
> both iOS and Android are complete BS. I don't think we have to get into
> what is better or if iOS is any good or anything like that. The point is
> that this is an iOS list, we are all here because we use iOS devices due
> to their very good level of accessibility. We all know there are bugs
> and that there always will be bugs. We all  know that Apple with iOS,
> Mac OS, TVOS and Watch OS don't have an exclusive on them, Android has
> them, Windows has them, Google Chrome has them and other software like
> Jaws, Office, Adobe, Firefox they all have bugs as do all apps.
>
> This list is and should be about helping each other, answering each
> others questions and posting articles about some particularly cool app
> or accessory. The list is also about posting about bugs you discover or
> think you have discovered, sure you can point out your thoughts that
> Apple should do more or that Apple really should have fixed this or that
> bug already or during the Beta cycle, but I think these rants which then
> result in endless one-liners about how somebody is right or wrong or
> should go and get an Android phone if they aren't happy with the iPhone
> are just getting old, they usually just rephrase what has already been
> said a dozen times over. As you know very well yourself Android isn't
> all it's made out to be and while you say you totally would have an
> Android phone if you could see there are also thousands of ex-Android
> users who can see and who love their new iPhones after making the
> switch. Then of course there are those "happy" Android users who bought
> Samsung's new flagship Note 7 only to be surprised when the smoke hit
> the fan, if this had happened to the iPhone 7 Apple would have been
> /crucified and in a much worse way than Samsung./
>
> Headlines like your ssubject "Apple has a serious problem with software
> quality" are typical link bait, you can go on Google and find lots of
> examples for either one, here is just one example that swings the other
> way from Forbes: "New Android Malware Strikes At Millions Of Smartphones".
>
> Sometimes you even find something that is more objective like the
> summary of this comparison article:
>
> iOS 10 vs Android 7.0 Nougat: Conclusion.
>
> In many respects, Android and iOS are very similar. They're both slick,
> refined, competent mobile operating systems. Each has its advantages and
> unique features, as well as frustrations and weaknesses.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Sieghard
>
>
>
> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:

RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

[Pablo C. Morales]

Hi Sieghard

I think that you haven’t read the whole threads in the last days. I said so 
because you are replying this email without knowledge of why I am posting this 
email. I recommend that you check about it in the last 2  days. Yes it is an 
IOs list, however it doesn’t mean that we cannot say that apple is doing a bad 
job regarding software updates, and specially fixing the problems that their 
software team are creating each IOs update. Mario is right when he says that 
apple has to be more responsible with their customers. I said something similar 
months ago, when I complained about the usability of our phones and the time 
that apple takes to fix bugs, and sometimes they just ignore the bugs and 
release new IOs, with more bugs. Obviously Sieghard your attitude shows a 
strong position in favor of apple, and you feel like ignoring what is wrong. 
Your attitude is no helping the blind community, your attitude defending apple 
when they are no fixing the bugs is going to fix apple in the future. Your 
attitude is hurting the accessibility and hurting apple too. You are defending 
a company that in the past had a very good attitude with the software  and with 
the bugs  unrepaired of software. You are defending them when they are no doing 
a good job. I posted those links, no talking about android or blackberry, those 
web pages are talking about the same point that we have been talking in the 
list these las 2 days. Bugs, and bad quality of software. The android 
developers are going to fix those problems?

No, you know that they are not going to do it. Apple is going to fix this 
problems?

Obviously they are no putting a lot of interest fixing these problems, they are 
more concern in the releases of new fancy IOs, than fixing the bugs of those 
new fancy releases.

Who is going to fix these problems?

We, their customers. We need to call, we need to write, we need to do a lot of 
noise because we are paying their checks with the products that we are buying. 
It is how market works.

In the last emails  I have said, several times that liking or not. Voiceover is 
the best choice for us. I am not saying that android accessibility is better, 
no I didn’t said that. Read those emails and you will see what is my position 
about it. I am not saying that Mario and many others are wrong, no. They are 
right, apple is no doing a good job with the software. But it doesn’t mean that 
I am saying that apple bs, as you said.

I don’t use that vocabulary, I am not accustomed to do that.

However, saying that apple is great, and keeping your attitude of just 
highlight the good things, are not going to improve the quality of apple 
software. Calling, writing, making noise is what is going to improve the 
software quality. I rather to write, to call, to make noise. I rather to 
complain to apple about their low quality. Because I am living in The United 
States where I have the right to complain about this kind of things when I paid 
for that. I am using my right. More over this right improves quality and it is 
what apple and customer’s needs. No just saying that whoever said something 
that you don’t like about  apple, are wrong.

 

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 10:12 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

 

Pablo and others,

 

You can find bunches of articles on anything on Google. I could send you 50 
links of articles which praise Apple and iOS to high heaven, then I can send 
you just as many that are the complete opposite and the same applies to 
Google/Android. I can probably even find you some die-hard Blackberry fans who 
are posting that Blackberry is the best ever and both iOS and Android are 
complete BS. I don't think we have to get into what is better or if iOS is any 
good or anything like that. The point is that this is an iOS list, we are all 
here because we use iOS devices due to their very good level of accessibility. 
We all know there are bugs and that there always will be bugs. We all  know 
that Apple with iOS, Mac OS, TVOS and Watch OS don't have an exclusive on them, 
Android has them, Windows has them, Google Chrome has them and other software 
like Jaws, Office, Adobe, Firefox they all have bugs as do all apps.

This list is and should be about helping each other, answering each others 
questions and posting articles about some particularly cool app or accessory. 
The list is also about posting about bugs you discover or think you have 
discovered, sure you can point out your thoughts that Apple should do more or 
that Apple really should have fixed this or that bug already or during the Beta 
cycle, but I think these rants which then result in endless one-liners about 
how somebody is right or wrong or should go and get an Android phone if they 
aren't happy with the iPhone are just getting old, they usually

RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

[Daniel L. Gervais]

Well said Sieghard!


From:   Sieghard Weitzel <siegh...@live.ca>
To: "viphone@googlegroups.com" <viphone@googlegroups.com>
Date:   2016/12/14 10:12 PM
Subject:    RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality  ZDNet

Pablo and others,

You can find bunches of articles on anything on Google. I could send you 50 
links of articles which praise Apple and iOS to high heaven, then I can send 
you just as many that are the complete opposite and the same applies to 
Google/Android. I can probably even find you some die-hard Blackberry fans who 
are posting that Blackberry is the best ever and both iOS and Android are 
complete BS. I don't think we have to get into what is better or if iOS is any 
good or anything like that. The point is that this is an iOS list, we are all 
here because we use iOS devices due to their very good level of accessibility. 
We all know there are bugs and that there always will be bugs. We all  know 
that Apple with iOS, Mac OS, TVOS and Watch OS don't have an exclusive on them, 
Android has them, Windows has them, Google Chrome has them and other software 
like Jaws, Office, Adobe, Firefox they all have bugs as do all apps.
This list is and should be about helping each other, answering each others 
questions and posting articles about some particularly cool app or accessory. 
The list is also about posting about bugs you discover or think you have 
discovered, sure you can point out your thoughts that Apple should do more or 
that Apple really should have fixed this or that bug already or during the Beta 
cycle, but I think these rants which then result in endless one-liners about 
how somebody is right or wrong or should go and get an Android phone if they 
aren't happy with the iPhone are just getting old, they usually just rephrase 
what has already been said a dozen times over. As you know very well yourself 
Android isn't all it's made out to be and while you say you totally would have 
an Android phone if you could see there are also thousands of ex-Android users 
who can see and who love their new iPhones after making the switch. Then of 
course there are those "happy" Android users who bought Samsung's new flagship 
Note 7 only to be surprised when the smoke hit the fan, if this had happened to 
the iPhone 7 Apple would have been crucified and in a much worse way than 
Samsung.
Headlines like your ssubject "Apple has a serious problem with software 
quality" are typical link bait, you can go on Google and find lots of examples 
for either one, here is just one example that swings the other way from Forbes: 
"New Android Malware Strikes At Millions Of Smartphones".
Sometimes you even find something that is more objective like the summary of 
this comparison article:
iOS 10 vs Android 7.0 Nougat: Conclusion.
In many respects, Android and iOS are very similar. They're both slick, 
refined, competent mobile operating systems. Each has its advantages and unique 
features, as well as frustrations and weaknesses.


Regards,
Sieghard

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Pablo C. Morales
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 4:42 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

Look at this article, you can find bunches of them on google.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-has-a-serious-problem-with-software-quality/ 

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The archives for this list can

Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

[rajmund]

hello. considering there are rooting apps in the playstore, I have to 
disagree.


Sent from Thunderbird

On 15/12/2016 05:17 AM, Devin Prater wrote:

Android only has real malware issues if one goes outside of the
playstore. Same for any open computer, like Mac or Windows.

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 9:41 PM Christopher Chaltain > wrote:

There's much to agree with here, but the article referred to was from
ZDNet, and that article did refer to another article which actually had
some real information. It wasn't just anecdotal, and it wasn't just some
rant from a guy in his basement with his own blog, which is what I was
expecting.

I would also think that quality of IOS and VoiceOver would be on topic
for this list.

It could also both be true that IOS has some quality issues and Android
has some malware issues. They aren't mutually exclusive!

Like I said, there's a lot to agree with below, such as how easy it
would be for this to go off topic and just turn into bashing and not
productive or constructive at all.

On 14/12/16 21:11, Sieghard Weitzel wrote:
 > Pablo and others,
 >
 >
 >
 > You can find bunches of articles on anything on Google. I could
send you
 > 50 links of articles which praise Apple and iOS to high heaven,
then I
 > can send you just as many that are the complete opposite and the same
 > applies to Google/Android. I can probably even find you some die-hard
 > Blackberry fans who are posting that Blackberry is the best ever and
 > both iOS and Android are complete BS. I don't think we have to
get into
 > what is better or if iOS is any good or anything like that. The
point is
 > that this is an iOS list, we are all here because we use iOS
devices due
 > to their very good level of accessibility. We all know there are bugs
 > and that there always will be bugs. We all  know that Apple with iOS,
 > Mac OS, TVOS and Watch OS don't have an exclusive on them,
Android has
 > them, Windows has them, Google Chrome has them and other software
like
 > Jaws, Office, Adobe, Firefox they all have bugs as do all apps.
 >
 > This list is and should be about helping each other, answering each
 > others questions and posting articles about some particularly
cool app
 > or accessory. The list is also about posting about bugs you
discover or
 > think you have discovered, sure you can point out your thoughts that
 > Apple should do more or that Apple really should have fixed this
or that
 > bug already or during the Beta cycle, but I think these rants
which then
 > result in endless one-liners about how somebody is right or wrong or
 > should go and get an Android phone if they aren't happy with the
iPhone
 > are just getting old, they usually just rephrase what has already
been
 > said a dozen times over. As you know very well yourself Android isn't
 > all it's made out to be and while you say you totally would have an
 > Android phone if you could see there are also thousands of ex-Android
 > users who can see and who love their new iPhones after making the
 > switch. Then of course there are those "happy" Android users who
bought
 > Samsung's new flagship Note 7 only to be surprised when the smoke hit
 > the fan, if this had happened to the iPhone 7 Apple would have been
 > /crucified and in a much worse way than Samsung./
 >
 > Headlines like your ssubject "Apple has a serious problem with
software
 > quality" are typical link bait, you can go on Google and find lots of
 > examples for either one, here is just one example that swings the
other
 > way from Forbes: "New Android Malware Strikes At Millions Of
Smartphones".
 >
 > Sometimes you even find something that is more objective like the
 > summary of this comparison article:
 >
 > iOS 10 vs Android 7.0 Nougat: Conclusion.
 >
 > In many respects, Android and iOS are very similar. They're both
slick,
 > refined, competent mobile operating systems. Each has its
advantages and
 > unique features, as well as frustrations and weaknesses.
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > Regards,
 >
 > Sieghard
 >
 >
 >
 > *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com
 [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com
] *On
 > Behalf Of *Pablo C. Morales
 > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2016 4:42 PM
 > *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com 
 > *Subject:* Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
 >
 >
 >
 > Look at this article, you can find bunches of them on
 > google.
 >
 >

Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

[Devin Prater]

Android only has real malware issues if one goes outside of the playstore.
Same for any open computer, like Mac or Windows.

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 9:41 PM Christopher Chaltain 
wrote:

> There's much to agree with here, but the article referred to was from
> ZDNet, and that article did refer to another article which actually had
> some real information. It wasn't just anecdotal, and it wasn't just some
> rant from a guy in his basement with his own blog, which is what I was
> expecting.
>
> I would also think that quality of IOS and VoiceOver would be on topic
> for this list.
>
> It could also both be true that IOS has some quality issues and Android
> has some malware issues. They aren't mutually exclusive!
>
> Like I said, there's a lot to agree with below, such as how easy it
> would be for this to go off topic and just turn into bashing and not
> productive or constructive at all.
>
> On 14/12/16 21:11, Sieghard Weitzel wrote:
> > Pablo and others,
> >
> >
> >
> > You can find bunches of articles on anything on Google. I could send you
> > 50 links of articles which praise Apple and iOS to high heaven, then I
> > can send you just as many that are the complete opposite and the same
> > applies to Google/Android. I can probably even find you some die-hard
> > Blackberry fans who are posting that Blackberry is the best ever and
> > both iOS and Android are complete BS. I don't think we have to get into
> > what is better or if iOS is any good or anything like that. The point is
> > that this is an iOS list, we are all here because we use iOS devices due
> > to their very good level of accessibility. We all know there are bugs
> > and that there always will be bugs. We all  know that Apple with iOS,
> > Mac OS, TVOS and Watch OS don't have an exclusive on them, Android has
> > them, Windows has them, Google Chrome has them and other software like
> > Jaws, Office, Adobe, Firefox they all have bugs as do all apps.
> >
> > This list is and should be about helping each other, answering each
> > others questions and posting articles about some particularly cool app
> > or accessory. The list is also about posting about bugs you discover or
> > think you have discovered, sure you can point out your thoughts that
> > Apple should do more or that Apple really should have fixed this or that
> > bug already or during the Beta cycle, but I think these rants which then
> > result in endless one-liners about how somebody is right or wrong or
> > should go and get an Android phone if they aren't happy with the iPhone
> > are just getting old, they usually just rephrase what has already been
> > said a dozen times over. As you know very well yourself Android isn't
> > all it's made out to be and while you say you totally would have an
> > Android phone if you could see there are also thousands of ex-Android
> > users who can see and who love their new iPhones after making the
> > switch. Then of course there are those "happy" Android users who bought
> > Samsung's new flagship Note 7 only to be surprised when the smoke hit
> > the fan, if this had happened to the iPhone 7 Apple would have been
> > /crucified and in a much worse way than Samsung./
> >
> > Headlines like your ssubject "Apple has a serious problem with software
> > quality" are typical link bait, you can go on Google and find lots of
> > examples for either one, here is just one example that swings the other
> > way from Forbes: "New Android Malware Strikes At Millions Of
> Smartphones".
> >
> > Sometimes you even find something that is more objective like the
> > summary of this comparison article:
> >
> > iOS 10 vs Android 7.0 Nougat: Conclusion.
> >
> > In many respects, Android and iOS are very similar. They're both slick,
> > refined, competent mobile operating systems. Each has its advantages and
> > unique features, as well as frustrations and weaknesses.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Sieghard
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] *On
> > Behalf Of *Pablo C. Morales
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2016 4:42 PM
> > *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
> > *Subject:* Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet
> >
> >
> >
> > Look at this article, you can find bunches of them on
> > google.
> >
> >
> http://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-has-a-serious-problem-with-software-quality/
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone
> list.
> >
> > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
> > if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
> > owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> >
> > Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn
> > - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> > 
> >
> > The archives for this list can be searched at:
> > 

Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

[Christopher Chaltain]

There's much to agree with here, but the article referred to was from 
ZDNet, and that article did refer to another article which actually had 
some real information. It wasn't just anecdotal, and it wasn't just some 
rant from a guy in his basement with his own blog, which is what I was 
expecting.


I would also think that quality of IOS and VoiceOver would be on topic 
for this list.


It could also both be true that IOS has some quality issues and Android 
has some malware issues. They aren't mutually exclusive!


Like I said, there's a lot to agree with below, such as how easy it 
would be for this to go off topic and just turn into bashing and not 
productive or constructive at all.


On 14/12/16 21:11, Sieghard Weitzel wrote:

Pablo and others,



You can find bunches of articles on anything on Google. I could send you
50 links of articles which praise Apple and iOS to high heaven, then I
can send you just as many that are the complete opposite and the same
applies to Google/Android. I can probably even find you some die-hard
Blackberry fans who are posting that Blackberry is the best ever and
both iOS and Android are complete BS. I don't think we have to get into
what is better or if iOS is any good or anything like that. The point is
that this is an iOS list, we are all here because we use iOS devices due
to their very good level of accessibility. We all know there are bugs
and that there always will be bugs. We all  know that Apple with iOS,
Mac OS, TVOS and Watch OS don't have an exclusive on them, Android has
them, Windows has them, Google Chrome has them and other software like
Jaws, Office, Adobe, Firefox they all have bugs as do all apps.

This list is and should be about helping each other, answering each
others questions and posting articles about some particularly cool app
or accessory. The list is also about posting about bugs you discover or
think you have discovered, sure you can point out your thoughts that
Apple should do more or that Apple really should have fixed this or that
bug already or during the Beta cycle, but I think these rants which then
result in endless one-liners about how somebody is right or wrong or
should go and get an Android phone if they aren't happy with the iPhone
are just getting old, they usually just rephrase what has already been
said a dozen times over. As you know very well yourself Android isn't
all it's made out to be and while you say you totally would have an
Android phone if you could see there are also thousands of ex-Android
users who can see and who love their new iPhones after making the
switch. Then of course there are those "happy" Android users who bought
Samsung's new flagship Note 7 only to be surprised when the smoke hit
the fan, if this had happened to the iPhone 7 Apple would have been
/crucified and in a much worse way than Samsung./

Headlines like your ssubject "Apple has a serious problem with software
quality" are typical link bait, you can go on Google and find lots of
examples for either one, here is just one example that swings the other
way from Forbes: "New Android Malware Strikes At Millions Of Smartphones".

Sometimes you even find something that is more objective like the
summary of this comparison article:

iOS 10 vs Android 7.0 Nougat: Conclusion.

In many respects, Android and iOS are very similar. They're both slick,
refined, competent mobile operating systems. Each has its advantages and
unique features, as well as frustrations and weaknesses.





Regards,

Sieghard



*From:* viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] *On
Behalf Of *Pablo C. Morales
*Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2016 4:42 PM
*To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet



Look at this article, you can find bunches of them on
google.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-has-a-serious-problem-with-software-quality/



--
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If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com


The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
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.
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The following information is 

RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

[Sieghard Weitzel]

Pablo and others,

You can find bunches of articles on anything on Google. I could send you 50 
links of articles which praise Apple and iOS to high heaven, then I can send 
you just as many that are the complete opposite and the same applies to 
Google/Android. I can probably even find you some die-hard Blackberry fans who 
are posting that Blackberry is the best ever and both iOS and Android are 
complete BS. I don't think we have to get into what is better or if iOS is any 
good or anything like that. The point is that this is an iOS list, we are all 
here because we use iOS devices due to their very good level of accessibility. 
We all know there are bugs and that there always will be bugs. We all  know 
that Apple with iOS, Mac OS, TVOS and Watch OS don't have an exclusive on them, 
Android has them, Windows has them, Google Chrome has them and other software 
like Jaws, Office, Adobe, Firefox they all have bugs as do all apps.
This list is and should be about helping each other, answering each others 
questions and posting articles about some particularly cool app or accessory. 
The list is also about posting about bugs you discover or think you have 
discovered, sure you can point out your thoughts that Apple should do more or 
that Apple really should have fixed this or that bug already or during the Beta 
cycle, but I think these rants which then result in endless one-liners about 
how somebody is right or wrong or should go and get an Android phone if they 
aren't happy with the iPhone are just getting old, they usually just rephrase 
what has already been said a dozen times over. As you know very well yourself 
Android isn't all it's made out to be and while you say you totally would have 
an Android phone if you could see there are also thousands of ex-Android users 
who can see and who love their new iPhones after making the switch. Then of 
course there are those "happy" Android users who bought Samsung's new flagship 
Note 7 only to be surprised when the smoke hit the fan, if this had happened to 
the iPhone 7 Apple would have been crucified and in a much worse way than 
Samsung.
Headlines like your ssubject "Apple has a serious problem with software 
quality" are typical link bait, you can go on Google and find lots of examples 
for either one, here is just one example that swings the other way from Forbes: 
"New Android Malware Strikes At Millions Of Smartphones".
Sometimes you even find something that is more objective like the summary of 
this comparison article:
iOS 10 vs Android 7.0 Nougat: Conclusion.
In many respects, Android and iOS are very similar. They're both slick, 
refined, competent mobile operating systems. Each has its advantages and unique 
features, as well as frustrations and weaknesses.


Regards,
Sieghard

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Pablo C. Morales
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 4:42 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet

Look at this article, you can find bunches of them on google.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-has-a-serious-problem-with-software-quality/

--
The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
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