RE: [Vo]:Osamu Ide

[Chris Zell]

I figured the MEG was just reactive/power factor stuff.

My hypothesis is that overunity could exist but only involving brief transients 
- because otherwise, our universe would end up as a white hot mass of extra 
energy everywhere.

Some German engineer wrote a paper claiming he replicated Ide's results.

I also wonder about "zero point energy" as needing a 'place where it ain't' and 
no one seems to bring that up.  Rather like tremendous pressure at the bottom 
of the ocean - it's all around but useless to generate anything because you  
need a lesser pressure to create a difference. So, if overunity is real, 
perhaps another dimension is involved to provide a transient difference in 
charge or pressure or whatever to make it work.

From: Terry Blanton 
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2023 1:55 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Osamu Ide

Corrected

http://jnaudin.free.fr/meg/meg.htm

On Thu, Jul 6, 2023, 1:46 PM Terry Blanton 
mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com>> wrote:
JL Naudin never found an OU device he didn't like.  He did tons on the MEG

Https://www.jnaudin.free.fr/meg/meg.htm<https://www.jnaudin.free.fr/meg/meg.htm>

On Thu, Jul 6, 2023, 1:07 PM Terry Blanton 
mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Reminds me of Tom Bearden's MEG, motionless electromagnetic generator.

As a EE since 1977,  my experience has shown "OU" on these devices are not 
measuring the area under the VxI waveform that is non-sinusoidal properly and 
have shown these flaws with a digital oscilloscope and a sampling resistor more 
than once.

It does not please the "inventor".

On Thu, Jul 6, 2023, 12:40 PM Chris Zell 
mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com>> wrote:
Can this be real?  One of those 'hiding in plain sight" rarities?

I see good journal articles and claims of replications and yet (cue 
crickets sound)

From: Terry Blanton mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2023 12:27 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Osamu Ide

A patent app on an OU transformer:

US20130009625A1

On Thu, Jul 6, 2023, 12:06 PM Terry Blanton 
mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Here's his original article from the Journal of Applied Physics

Https://www.rexresearch.com/ide/jap77.pdf<https://www.rexresearch.com/ide/jap77.pdf>

On Wed, Jul 5, 2023, 11:50 AM Chris Zell 
mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com>> wrote:

Does anybody know what the deal is with this guy?  He claims overunity  and 
there appears to be some replication. He's been published in some really good 
journals across years.  What's the story?


CAUTION: This message was sent from outside the Nexstar organization. Please do 
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CAUTION: This message was sent from outside the Nexstar organization. Please do 
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RE: [Vo]:Osamu Ide

[Chris Zell]

Can this be real?  One of those 'hiding in plain sight" rarities?

I see good journal articles and claims of replications and yet (cue 
crickets sound)

From: Terry Blanton 
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2023 12:27 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Osamu Ide

A patent app on an OU transformer:

US20130009625A1

On Thu, Jul 6, 2023, 12:06 PM Terry Blanton 
mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Here's his original article from the Journal of Applied Physics

Https://www.rexresearch.com/ide/jap77.pdf<https://www.rexresearch.com/ide/jap77.pdf>

On Wed, Jul 5, 2023, 11:50 AM Chris Zell 
mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com>> wrote:

Does anybody know what the deal is with this guy?  He claims overunity  and 
there appears to be some replication. He's been published in some really good 
journals across years.  What's the story?


CAUTION: This message was sent from outside the Nexstar organization. Please do 
not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender.

[Vo]:Osamu Ide

[Chris Zell]

Does anybody know what the deal is with this guy?  He claims overunity  and 
there appears to be some replication. He's been published in some really good 
journals across years.  What's the story?

RE: [Vo]:Arguments for an "Aether"

[Chris Zell]

Thanks for bringing this up.  I always wondered how aether isn't supposedly 
real yet space/vacuum has measurable properties concerning EMF.

Maybe someday a discussion of lightning/thunderstorms will pop up as I find 
nothing credible about cloud electrification ideas.

From: bobcook39...@hotmail.com 
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2022 6:24 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Arguments for an "Aether"

Electric permittivity and magnetic megmiabilityu of space necessary to 
calculate the speed of light support the physical model of space and hence the 
concept of an anther.

Bob Cook

Sent from 
Mail
 for Windows

From: Jonathan Berry
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 12:04 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Arguments for an "Aether"

Well if you consider all of the possible interactions that could happen with 
so-called virtual particles (whatever quantum field theory might call them) it 
calculates the exact value and is the "most successful calculation/prediction 
in physics".  I can't judge the relative value of the model you mention but I 
would argue that even if it somehow explains away for example Lamb shift, how 
would other phenomena that give evidence of a substantive and energetic nature 
to space be discounted?

For example the Casimir effect, are you saying this isn't a result of 
eliminating certian frequency modes in the Quantum field?

And the permitivity of free space and displscement current in a vacuum, are you 
saying there is nothing in the vacuum to be displaced? (polarized)

There is a lot more than just Lamb shift that nerds to be explained away.

On Wed, 12 Oct 2022, 1:23 am Jürg Wyttenbach, 
mailto:ju...@datamart.ch>> wrote:

So we know that the electric field from the Nucleus of a Hydrogen Nucleus can 
polarize the virtual particles and cause partial shielding, this results in the 
Lamb shift.

This is standard model word salad. Virtual particles  are just a mathematical 
construct an thus never something real.



Lamb shift only happens inside a field so this is a forced interaction. We can 
exactly calculate the Proton fine structure frequency (See basics in Mills but 
needs some metric added..) from first principle and there we use no virtual 
particles.

All non circular orbits have two extremes what explains the shift in min/max 
energy.

Hence no ether or other fantasy needed.

J.W.


On 11.10.2022 11:01, Jonathan Berry wrote:
I would like to hear any counter points to these arguments.

Firstly the Aether I am talking about IS NOT NECESSARILY the Luminiferous 
Aether/Ether considered disproven, though some arguments will go in that 
direction also.

Hence the "Aether" in question could be Quantum fields theory, virtual 
particles, cold neutrinos, dark matter, Dirac sea etc...  or anything in or of 
space (or space-time) besides matter and light/radiation.
Therefore there isn't really any reason to discount it based on the label 
Aether as it is being used as a catch all, some of which are beyond doubt.
I would also note that the space of General Relativity is affected by matter 
and light and motion can be induced in it, such as frame dragging.

And also I will be first addressing that light might potentially affect such 
phenomena.

So we know that the electric field from the Nucleus of a Hydrogen Nucleus can 
polarize the virtual particles and cause partial shielding, this results in the 
Lamb shift.
Also displacement current through a vacuum and the very dielectric properties 
of the vacuum suggest there is something to be affected.
Many have entertained the ideas of Bearden and Scalar waves which propose to 
affect space with electromagnetic fields interfering.
Matter is 99.9% empty space and so if matter has any potential ability to 
affect anything in the vacuum likely that would be from the 99.9% of the 
volume that is just electromagnetic flux, also if Matter plays a necessary 
part, as long as the experiment is not performed in a vacuum matter will be 
present even if it isn't the structured component.
Light manifests a tiny gravitational field according to conventional theory, 
indeed it must due to the fact it carries momentum and can be diverted by 
gravity if Newlon's laws are to survive..
Light introduced into an otherwise massless perfectly reflective box would, due 
to Doppler shift imbalancing radiation pressure, inertial mass now be apparent.
Light has the ability to push, warm and cut matter so why should we doubt it's 
influence on other phenomena?


So we should all be 

RE: [Vo]:Max Planck quote

[Chris Zell]

I know of no one who has any hypothesis or results that might relate to this 
Marks toroid thing except maybe Richard Vialle. The translations of his work 
aren’t very good and can be confusing. However, he seemed to assert overunity 
in getting electrons flowing in a coil to orbit elliptically (Rutherford model).

At least that’s how I understood it.

From: Jonathan Berry 
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2022 4:43 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Max Planck quote

The latter (not covered by existing theory) because it is an aether.vortex that 
moves with the toroid.

It wasn't a magnetic reaction, it was what I would term aetheric, but it was 
unmistakable.

It could be considered similar to the very real feeling forces that dowsers 
feel on dowsing rods I suspect, albeit I can't dowse.

The force felt on SM's toroids might have been stronger, but it was really 
obvious still, my best guess is that it is an interaction between the 'aether 
vortex' setup by the toroid that is stuck in space at that location and the 
continuing vortex in the toroid, at least that is one idea.

But the force was very noticeable and was just as described, but didn't need 
any continued electrical input much as shown in the videos, but there was 
electrical input earlier, can't say if that was necessary.

I am sure I can replicate it, it wasn't identical to SM's toroid and it wasn't 
an attempt to replicate it and no attempt to collect Free Energy was made even 
though this makes me more certain the demo was genuine even if some limitations 
might have been hidden.


On Wed, 31 Aug 2022 at 01:53, Chris Zell 
mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com>> wrote:
Um…… if you tried to create a Mark’s coil, what were you feeling?

A very tiny interaction with earth’s magnetic field?  Or something else that 
(AFAIK) isn’t covered by existing theory?

From: Jonathan Berry 
mailto:jonathanberry3...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2022 3:18 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Max Planck quote

>I don’t understand what “EM mass” means. Can a EMF field have mass?

Imagine a massless reflective box, then put a lot of light into it, now as you 
try and accelerate it the walls approaching the radiation feel more radiation 
pressure than the ones moving away.

The box suddenly appears to have more mass, what's more it also has suddenly 
gravitational mass as light is accepted to be manifesting a tiny bit of 
gravity, and indeed because it responds to gravity, for Newton to be correct 
light must also attract matter to it however weakly, but this is also a part of 
e=mc2.

So we see that light can give all the familiar properties of mass to otherwise 
massless containers.

As for Steven Mark's and his TPU, I have made steel toroidal coils and felt 
this washboard effect as I move the coil.


On Tue, 30 Aug 2022 at 02:00, Chris Zell 
mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com>> wrote:
I don’t understand what “EM mass” means. Can a EMF field have mass?

I have a practical reason for asking. Once Upon A Time, there was a sketchy 
character named Mark who produced a strange device that pulled electricity out 
of nowhere – even though it was little more than a coil. There are still videos 
of this.
Observers said it had an odd gyroscopic effect in handling it. So, maybe he 
discovered some strange rotating field effect……. But how to explain the 
gyroscopic “feel” to it?  I don’t think about electrical or magnetic fields as 
having any “feelable” mass, however they might move or pulse.

Oh, and read Bernardo Kastrup’s books about consciousness. He is gonzo deep.  
Such as his book “Materialism Is Baloney”.

From: Jürg Wyttenbach mailto:ju...@datamart.ch>>
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2022 6:35 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Max Planck quote


According to the new SO(4) physics model all mass is EM mass and as a such can 
go into resonance with all other EM mass. If the energies match then an action 
may happen. Even more interesting is that EM fields in fact act/resonate 
instantaneously. Only a follow up mass like action is limited to the speed of 
light. The transfer of information = change in quantum configuration is not 
bound to energy. So factually all mass bound "information states" in the 
universe can be in direct contact and exchange information.

Consciousness awareness is the highest level of culture we can attain. But I 
doubt that dumb animals feel unhappy about not knowing that they exist. In fact 
this knowledge is the biggest burden we carry and as it look now mankind is 
unable to do so. (See also the movie planet of the monkeys).

So before we discuss about the fiction of a big bang we have 10% more 
important problems to solve.



Help to save the planet.E.g. by supporting Russ George and his OPR work. Or by 
supporting our cold fusion work that is 100% reproducible.



J.W.


On 29.08.2022 12:07, Jonathan Berry wrot

RE: [Vo]:Max Planck quote

[Chris Zell]

Um…… if you tried to create a Mark’s coil, what were you feeling?

A very tiny interaction with earth’s magnetic field?  Or something else that 
(AFAIK) isn’t covered by existing theory?

From: Jonathan Berry 
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2022 3:18 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Max Planck quote

>I don’t understand what “EM mass” means. Can a EMF field have mass?

Imagine a massless reflective box, then put a lot of light into it, now as you 
try and accelerate it the walls approaching the radiation feel more radiation 
pressure than the ones moving away.

The box suddenly appears to have more mass, what's more it also has suddenly 
gravitational mass as light is accepted to be manifesting a tiny bit of 
gravity, and indeed because it responds to gravity, for Newton to be correct 
light must also attract matter to it however weakly, but this is also a part of 
e=mc2.

So we see that light can give all the familiar properties of mass to otherwise 
massless containers.

As for Steven Mark's and his TPU, I have made steel toroidal coils and felt 
this washboard effect as I move the coil.


On Tue, 30 Aug 2022 at 02:00, Chris Zell 
mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com>> wrote:
I don’t understand what “EM mass” means. Can a EMF field have mass?

I have a practical reason for asking. Once Upon A Time, there was a sketchy 
character named Mark who produced a strange device that pulled electricity out 
of nowhere – even though it was little more than a coil. There are still videos 
of this.
Observers said it had an odd gyroscopic effect in handling it. So, maybe he 
discovered some strange rotating field effect……. But how to explain the 
gyroscopic “feel” to it?  I don’t think about electrical or magnetic fields as 
having any “feelable” mass, however they might move or pulse.

Oh, and read Bernardo Kastrup’s books about consciousness. He is gonzo deep.  
Such as his book “Materialism Is Baloney”.

From: Jürg Wyttenbach mailto:ju...@datamart.ch>>
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2022 6:35 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Max Planck quote


According to the new SO(4) physics model all mass is EM mass and as a such can 
go into resonance with all other EM mass. If the energies match then an action 
may happen. Even more interesting is that EM fields in fact act/resonate 
instantaneously. Only a follow up mass like action is limited to the speed of 
light. The transfer of information = change in quantum configuration is not 
bound to energy. So factually all mass bound "information states" in the 
universe can be in direct contact and exchange information.

Consciousness awareness is the highest level of culture we can attain. But I 
doubt that dumb animals feel unhappy about not knowing that they exist. In fact 
this knowledge is the biggest burden we carry and as it look now mankind is 
unable to do so. (See also the movie planet of the monkeys).

So before we discuss about the fiction of a big bang we have 10% more 
important problems to solve.



Help to save the planet.E.g. by supporting Russ George and his OPR work. Or by 
supporting our cold fusion work that is 100% reproducible.



J.W.


On 29.08.2022 12:07, Jonathan Berry wrote:
Consider if there was no consciousness, matter and stars and life, but no 
consciousness, it is beyond comprehension,

If something isn't seen by consciousness, does it really exist?  Quantum 
physics often suggests it doesn't!

After all we know that it's not just the photon, but also the electron that 
acts as a wave, not just the electron but the atom, not just the atom but the 
molecule that acts in a state of superposition.

Where does this end?  Perhaps it only ends at consciousness, consciousness 
collapses the possibilities into a single reality.

Think of it, can subatomic particles just by chance make atoms, atoms just by 
chance make chemicals/molecules, chemicals just by chance forms life, life just 
by chance forms a brain and consciousness, consciousness without which all of 
the rest would be a meaningless unacknowledged phenomena.

If computation cannot explain the bringing forth of presence, awareness, then 
consciousness isn't made by matter.
If consciousness isn't made by matter then there are two possibilities.

Firstly, that consciousness and matter are two independent phenomena neither 
causing the other.

Or secondly, that matter is manifested by consciousness.

We seem to find some evidence for the latter phenomena, evidence that 
consciousness affects reality, this would seem unlikely or absurd if 
consciousness were a mere product of calculation.

Indeed Quantum physics has found reliable evidence that consciousness can 
affect matter.

Consciousness is similar to existence, you can't contemplate non-existence as 
if there were a period of non-existence there would be no experience of it, no 
times, no consciousness.
In the same way, existence without consciousness is either absurd or

RE: [Vo]:Max Planck quote

[Chris Zell]

I don’t understand what “EM mass” means. Can a EMF field have mass?

I have a practical reason for asking. Once Upon A Time, there was a sketchy 
character named Mark who produced a strange device that pulled electricity out 
of nowhere – even though it was little more than a coil. There are still videos 
of this.
Observers said it had an odd gyroscopic effect in handling it. So, maybe he 
discovered some strange rotating field effect……. But how to explain the 
gyroscopic “feel” to it?  I don’t think about electrical or magnetic fields as 
having any “feelable” mass, however they might move or pulse.

Oh, and read Bernardo Kastrup’s books about consciousness. He is gonzo deep.  
Such as his book “Materialism Is Baloney”.

From: Jürg Wyttenbach 
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2022 6:35 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Max Planck quote


According to the new SO(4) physics model all mass is EM mass and as a such can 
go into resonance with all other EM mass. If the energies match then an action 
may happen. Even more interesting is that EM fields in fact act/resonate 
instantaneously. Only a follow up mass like action is limited to the speed of 
light. The transfer of information = change in quantum configuration is not 
bound to energy. So factually all mass bound "information states" in the 
universe can be in direct contact and exchange information.

Consciousness awareness is the highest level of culture we can attain. But I 
doubt that dumb animals feel unhappy about not knowing that they exist. In fact 
this knowledge is the biggest burden we carry and as it look now mankind is 
unable to do so. (See also the movie planet of the monkeys).

So before we discuss about the fiction of a big bang we have 10% more 
important problems to solve.



Help to save the planet.E.g. by supporting Russ George and his OPR work. Or by 
supporting our cold fusion work that is 100% reproducible.



J.W.


On 29.08.2022 12:07, Jonathan Berry wrote:
Consider if there was no consciousness, matter and stars and life, but no 
consciousness, it is beyond comprehension,

If something isn't seen by consciousness, does it really exist?  Quantum 
physics often suggests it doesn't!

After all we know that it's not just the photon, but also the electron that 
acts as a wave, not just the electron but the atom, not just the atom but the 
molecule that acts in a state of superposition.

Where does this end?  Perhaps it only ends at consciousness, consciousness 
collapses the possibilities into a single reality.

Think of it, can subatomic particles just by chance make atoms, atoms just by 
chance make chemicals/molecules, chemicals just by chance forms life, life just 
by chance forms a brain and consciousness, consciousness without which all of 
the rest would be a meaningless unacknowledged phenomena.

If computation cannot explain the bringing forth of presence, awareness, then 
consciousness isn't made by matter.
If consciousness isn't made by matter then there are two possibilities.

Firstly, that consciousness and matter are two independent phenomena neither 
causing the other.

Or secondly, that matter is manifested by consciousness.

We seem to find some evidence for the latter phenomena, evidence that 
consciousness affects reality, this would seem unlikely or absurd if 
consciousness were a mere product of calculation.

Indeed Quantum physics has found reliable evidence that consciousness can 
affect matter.

Consciousness is similar to existence, you can't contemplate non-existence as 
if there were a period of non-existence there would be no experience of it, no 
times, no consciousness.
In the same way, existence without consciousness is either absurd or at least 
without any possible value.
So consciousness is as essential as exististance, consciousness is existence.

Most (all) apparent unconsciousness is just a lower level of consciousness.






--

Jürg Wyttenbach

Bifangstr. 22

8910 Affoltern am Albis



+41 44 760 14 18

+41 79 246 36 06


CAUTION: This message was sent from outside the Nexstar organization. Please do 
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RE: [Vo]:Bearden dead and cheniere.org gone

[Chris Zell]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stigmergy

Many of these things are technically not conspiracies, just stigmergy.The 
US defeat in Afghanistan – after the longest war in US history, 20yrs+  -  is 
one example.  Congress, The White House,  the mass media, the Pentagon lie and 
deceive for decades and get away with it.  The WSJ claimed 6 intelligence 
reports about Afghanistan said nothing about the whole thing collapsing.

And that harmful trend continues as no one seems to scream about an ineffective 
US intelligence community.  I also think the same thing will happen with 
Russia/Ukraine and the sanctions Cold War.

All too often science goes the same way.  Termites denying anomalies such as 
Cold Fusion obediently.

From: Jed Rothwell 
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2022 9:49 AM
To: Vortex 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Bearden dead and cheniere.org gone

ROGER ANDERTON 
mailto:r.j.ander...@btinternet.com>> wrote:

This is getting too diverted. What you were saying sounded like a conspiracy 
theory.
Perhaps it did sound like that, but it was not. Because --

1. A conspiracy is organized and surreptitious. The opposition to cold fusion 
was unorganized and very much in the open. Opponents published books, papers, 
newspaper editorials, editorials in Nature and so on. They were proud to lead 
the attack against cold fusion.

2. It is not a "theory;" it is a fact. You can read the books and editorials. A 
"conspiracy theory" means an assertion that a hidden group of people carried 
out an organized campaign of opposition. There is no proof, and you don't know 
who the people are. Although you might speculate about who they are. If I had 
said: "we don't know who opposed cold fusion, but I suspect it was the editors 
at Nature and the plasma fusion researchers" that would be a theory. I am not 
saying that. I am saying: "we know who opposed cold fusion, because the editor 
at Nature published signed editorials excoriating it, and the plasma fusion 
researchers at MIT called Boston newspaper reporters and demanded that 
Fleischmann and Pons be arrested for fraud." Those researchers never denied 
doing that. We have the news reports and quotes from them.

There is a world of difference between an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory and 
attacks carried out in public by people who bragged about their role in 
destroying cold fusion. Calling that a "theory" is like saying "perhaps it was 
the Japanese navy that attacked Pearl Harbor in 1941, but we will never know 
for sure."



CAUTION: This message was sent from outside the Nexstar organization. Please do 
not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender.

RE: [Vo]:Paul Brown's RNB

[Chris Zell]

Could someone explain the mystery of his radioactive battery was all about?

Standard physics insists there is no way, no how to any convenient triggering 
of radioactive decay. Heat, shock, chemistry - whatever. Yet he claimed 
otherwise through some sort of resonance.

I recall an experiment in which somebody tried to trigger decay using an RF 
transmitter and couldn't find any effect.

So was Brown a fraud?  The only reference in his favor seemed to be a very old 
claim that a thin layer of radium on an antenna could amplify a received signal 
but added noise.

From: Jones Beene 
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2022 4:56 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Paul Brown's RNB

Truth is stranger than fiction, as they say ...

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a2114036/strange-life-and-stranger-death-paul-brown-case-another-smart-guy-doing-dumb-thing/



Terry Blanton wrote:


Paul envisioned his Nucell Resonant Nuclear Battery helping solve climate 
change in 1989.

http://www.rexresearch.com/nucell/nucell.htm


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RE: [Vo]:Bearden dead and cheniere.org gone

[Chris Zell]

I swear I entered "google" on Duck Duck Go this morning and it said no results 
found.

May be it's the Russians. They seem to be the go to for blame these days.

From: Terry Blanton 
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2022 7:15 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Bearden dead and cheniere.org gone

Is Google dying?

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/06/google-search-algorithm-internet/661325/


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RE: [Vo]:Bearden dead and cheniere.org gone

[Chris Zell]

I've searched all over for the drawing - I think by William Lyne - of how this 
reputed radioactive thorium battery worked ( as opposed to thorium reactors). I 
can't find it anymore.  Google often does this in ignoring search terms, as 
happened to me recently in looking for a chain saw part.

From: Nicholas Palmer 
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2022 9:07 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Bearden dead and cheniere.org gone

You suggested that the internet had been scrubbed of links, thus insinuating a 
conspiracy to hide the truth. That google search shows that there are still 
many links discussing it which haven't been scrubbed. If the 'main' sites run 
by the crackpot inventor no longer exist because he died and isn't paying the 
bills anymore, it's hardly surprising!
Nick Palmer


On Fri, 17 Jun 2022 at 17:04, Chris Zell 
mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com>> wrote:
That google search turns up a huge number of references to thorium reactors. 
Generally, we don't we don't refer to the Chernobyl "battery" or Three Mile 
island "battery". I am talking about a small device reputed to be simple and 
provide huge amounts of power - whose links are dead.  Google frequently leads 
searches far away from what was intended.

Since the discussion is about Bearden - he thought Arie De Geus was murdered in 
regard to a potential radioactive battery patent.

From: Nicholas Palmer 
mailto:greendirectionconsult...@googlemail.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2022 9:29 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Bearden dead and 
cheniere.org<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcheniere.org%2F=05%7C01%7CChrisZell%40wetmtv.com%7Cb91b120bc4b8443f04ef08da50c6dca1%7C9e5488e2e83844f6886cc7608242767e%7C0%7C1%7C63792317535520%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=2XgkaUidHWR%2F14obQiSPrGvi6PeGQZ5jn4alHf4huWA%3D=0>
 gone

Chris Zell - what part of this in Jed's reply did you not understand?

" A Google search for "thorium battery" (in quotes) turns up more than a 
thousand items "

Nick Palmer



On Wed, 15 Jun 2022 at 14:34, Chris Zell 
mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com>> wrote:
Ah, the expected narcissistic reply

But I was talking about a thorium battery, not a reactor - as your citation 
seems to talk about. You know how to use google?  Many sites but not really 
about the reputed thorium plasma battery

And then there was Arie De Geus and his patents.

https://energyfromthorium.com/2014/04/13/mythology-thorium-car-thorium-plasma-batteries/<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fenergyfromthorium.com%2F2014%2F04%2F13%2Fmythology-thorium-car-thorium-plasma-batteries%2F=05%7C01%7CChrisZell%40wetmtv.com%7Cb91b120bc4b8443f04ef08da50c6dca1%7C9e5488e2e83844f6886cc7608242767e%7C0%7C1%7C63792317535520%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=7NuA%2F3jcbvR4bQdF%2Fjni1XXFYnuzZ%2FSv3sjIbmqiryg%3D=0>

And here is a site denouncing the idea - loaded up with dead end links, as I 
said.

From: Jed Rothwell mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2022 6:05 PM
To: Vortex mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Bearden dead and 
cheniere.org<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcheniere.org%2F=05%7C01%7CChrisZell%40wetmtv.com%7Cb91b120bc4b8443f04ef08da50c6dca1%7C9e5488e2e83844f6886cc7608242767e%7C0%7C1%7C63792317535520%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=2XgkaUidHWR%2F14obQiSPrGvi6PeGQZ5jn4alHf4huWA%3D=0>
 gone

Chris Zell mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com>> wrote:
I would say that the 'thorium battery' on the internet has been thoroughly 
scrubbed and every link eliminated.

A Google search for "thorium battery" (in quotes) turns up more than a thousand 
items. Without the quotes, more than a million. There is an organization 
devoted to this topic. It is very much in operation, with academic meetings and 
so on:

Thorium Energy Alliance

https://thoriumenergyalliance.com/<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fthoriumenergyalliance.com%2F=05%7C01%7CChrisZell%40wetmtv.com%7Cb91b120bc4b8443f04ef08da50c6dca1%7C9e5488e2e83844f6886cc7608242767e%7C0%7C1%7C63792317535520%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=yWdRkkxHLwB2gL0uBp0FJOO%2BZf7jM19WDjagSaoiSnk%3D=0>


There were also rumors about strange deaths connected with it.

These rumors probably have as much validity as what you just said. Which is to 
say, zero validity.



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CAUTION: This message

RE: [Vo]:Bearden dead and cheniere.org gone

[Chris Zell]

That google search turns up a huge number of references to thorium reactors. 
Generally, we don't we don't refer to the Chernobyl "battery" or Three Mile 
island "battery". I am talking about a small device reputed to be simple and 
provide huge amounts of power - whose links are dead.  Google frequently leads 
searches far away from what was intended.

Since the discussion is about Bearden - he thought Arie De Geus was murdered in 
regard to a potential radioactive battery patent.

From: Nicholas Palmer 
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2022 9:29 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Bearden dead and cheniere.org gone

Chris Zell - what part of this in Jed's reply did you not understand?

" A Google search for "thorium battery" (in quotes) turns up more than a 
thousand items "

Nick Palmer



On Wed, 15 Jun 2022 at 14:34, Chris Zell 
mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com>> wrote:
Ah, the expected narcissistic reply

But I was talking about a thorium battery, not a reactor - as your citation 
seems to talk about. You know how to use google?  Many sites but not really 
about the reputed thorium plasma battery

And then there was Arie De Geus and his patents.

https://energyfromthorium.com/2014/04/13/mythology-thorium-car-thorium-plasma-batteries/<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fenergyfromthorium.com%2F2014%2F04%2F13%2Fmythology-thorium-car-thorium-plasma-batteries%2F=05%7C01%7CChrisZell%40wetmtv.com%7C77dd5fe570e8497ffcb408da4f37a5f0%7C9e5488e2e83844f6886cc7608242767e%7C0%7C0%7C637909397712202226%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=OW6Pm7V25G1uvnmaCN8f7OW56aHTxISNkdrFaa5Q0uE%3D=0>

And here is a site denouncing the idea - loaded up with dead end links, as I 
said.

From: Jed Rothwell mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2022 6:05 PM
To: Vortex mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Bearden dead and 
cheniere.org<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcheniere.org%2F=05%7C01%7CChrisZell%40wetmtv.com%7C77dd5fe570e8497ffcb408da4f37a5f0%7C9e5488e2e83844f6886cc7608242767e%7C0%7C0%7C637909397712202226%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=rGpw3B0q1DRwyMJ82eAj1F%2BgyYpsTMD6RX8iPUqZ6wo%3D=0>
 gone

Chris Zell mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com>> wrote:
I would say that the 'thorium battery' on the internet has been thoroughly 
scrubbed and every link eliminated.

A Google search for "thorium battery" (in quotes) turns up more than a thousand 
items. Without the quotes, more than a million. There is an organization 
devoted to this topic. It is very much in operation, with academic meetings and 
so on:

Thorium Energy Alliance

https://thoriumenergyalliance.com/<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fthoriumenergyalliance.com%2F=05%7C01%7CChrisZell%40wetmtv.com%7C77dd5fe570e8497ffcb408da4f37a5f0%7C9e5488e2e83844f6886cc7608242767e%7C0%7C0%7C637909397712202226%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=MmIlU9zQBSjKNIlzZxEavDerIOirpnS%2FOm6cgipMALg%3D=0>


There were also rumors about strange deaths connected with it.

These rumors probably have as much validity as what you just said. Which is to 
say, zero validity.



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not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender.


CAUTION: This message was sent from outside the Nexstar organization. Please do 
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RE: [Vo]:Bearden dead and cheniere.org gone

[Chris Zell]

Ah, the expected narcissistic reply

But I was talking about a thorium battery, not a reactor - as your citation 
seems to talk about. You know how to use google?  Many sites but not really 
about the reputed thorium plasma battery

And then there was Arie De Geus and his patents.

https://energyfromthorium.com/2014/04/13/mythology-thorium-car-thorium-plasma-batteries/

And here is a site denouncing the idea - loaded up with dead end links, as I 
said.

From: Jed Rothwell 
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2022 6:05 PM
To: Vortex 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Bearden dead and cheniere.org gone

Chris Zell mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com>> wrote:
I would say that the 'thorium battery' on the internet has been thoroughly 
scrubbed and every link eliminated.

A Google search for "thorium battery" (in quotes) turns up more than a thousand 
items. Without the quotes, more than a million. There is an organization 
devoted to this topic. It is very much in operation, with academic meetings and 
so on:

Thorium Energy Alliance

https://thoriumenergyalliance.com/<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fthoriumenergyalliance.com%2F=05%7C01%7CChrisZell%40wetmtv.com%7C581c6842721449e8b98e08da4e51fed6%7C9e5488e2e83844f6886cc7608242767e%7C0%7C1%7C637908411341485871%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=%2BokZhE5iQNKjkRzbjhIe6PPW9SmCKnDTI5jKl3qFK38%3D=0>


There were also rumors about strange deaths connected with it.

These rumors probably have as much validity as what you just said. Which is to 
say, zero validity.



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not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender.

RE: [Vo]:Bearden dead and cheniere.org gone

[Chris Zell]

I would say that the ‘thorium battery’ on the internet has been thoroughly 
scrubbed and every link eliminated. There were also rumors about strange deaths 
connected with it.

If you work at the NSA in a cublcle monitoring this stuff, I just want to say 
‘Hi!’.

Afghanistan may be the greatest proof of mass conspiracy in my lifetime.  The 
longest war in US history and a half dozen intelligence reports fail to predict 
the fall of the government when they get to the airport (WSJ).  Media, 
Congress, Pentagon deaf, dumb and blind for 20 years. How does that work?

From: ROGER ANDERTON 
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2022 4:54 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Bearden dead and cheniere.org gone

information is being purged from internet as part of the political campaign to 
delete fake news




-- Original Message --
From: "Esa Ruoho" mailto:esaru...@gmail.com>>
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, 13 Jun, 22 At 17:17
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Bearden dead and cheniere.org gone

Not only that but seems like http://energyfromthevacuum.com is also gone. I 
wonder whats up now.

—

http://linkedin.com/in/esaruoho // http://twitter.com/esaruoho // 
http://lackluster.bandcamp.com //

+358403703659 // http://www.lackluster.org // 
http://facebook.com/LacklusterOfficial //

http://youtube.com/c/LacklusterOfficial

On 13. Jun 2022, at 15.30, David Jonsson 
mailto:davidjonssonswe...@gmail.com>> wrote:

https://obits.al.com/us/obituaries/huntsville/name/thomas-bearden-obituary?id=32759244

Is there a web archive somewhere? Here is one saved in April 2022
https://web.archive.org/web/20220428030850/http://www.cheniere.org/

I began faxing Bearden in the 1990s. It took more than two decades before I got 
the meaning of his critique. I hope we can achieve what he aimed for in a safe 
way.

David Jonsson



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RE: [Vo]:Laser Cooling -> Cooling with radiation

[Chris Zell]

I have always wondered about what appears to be a breathtaking untidiness about 
radioactive decay. Each isotope has its' own half life, unmoored or untriggered 
by external events.  On the surface, it looks like the worst possible violation 
of any notion of Occams Razor imaginable.  It's crazy arbitrary.

From: bobcook39...@hotmail.com 
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2022 1:48 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Laser Cooling -> Cooling with radiation

Robin--

Why does nuclear decay happen routinely?

The swap of potential energy of a  QM system is not without restrictions os
regarding conservation of angular momentum and conservation of total energy.  
In addition the allowable quantum states that are phonic states with  specific 
non continuous values of kinetic emerge  AND angular momentum.  The angular 
momentum must b a multiple of h/2 pie.

The proper matching of parameters within a arbitrary QN system does not occur 
very often in nature.  However it can be engineered in LENR reactors.

Key parameters include startimg material QM enerfy states and  and angular 
momentum quantum states and  phonic energy states.   Magneticc fields including 
resonances are also important to modify QM system allowed energy states .


Bob Cook

From: Robin
Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2022 3:03 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Laser Cooling -> Cooling with radiation

In reply to  bobcook39...@hotmail.com's 
message of Wed, 4 May 2022 16:49:08 +:
Hi Bob,
[snip]
>Radiation cooling is how the final process of LENR works.
>
>The first step is to swap nuclear potential energy to kinetic spin phonic 
>energy of a QM atom (including electronic structure) which is classical 
>thermal energy subject to common radiation cooling in the second step.

...then one wonders why this doesn't apply to the normal decay of radioisotopes?
If no one clicked on ads companies would stop paying for them. :)



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RE: [Vo]:A simpler test

[Chris Zell]

There is a small earth to air current.  Very weak but measurable. There were 
attempts to gather this current with balloons covered with spikes, hundreds of 
feet up. So, I guess the earth is negative.

From: H LV 
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2022 3:02 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A simpler test

What do you mean by the Earth's relative charge?
Does it have net positive or negative charge relative to deep space?

Harry

On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 9:50 AM Chris Zell 
mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com>> wrote:
Could there be a way to generate energy by ‘transmitting away’ the earth’s 
relative charge into neutral space? Using something similar to this method?

From: H LV mailto:hveeder...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2022 12:33 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A simpler test

Update...
I haven't done any experiments yet, but I have refined my thinking about the 
nature of cooling or frigorific radiation.

Instead of striving for extremely low temperatures, I recently realised it 
should be possible to look for cooling radiation between bodies which have a 
large relative temperature difference.

Also I was worried that if frigorific radiation were real then we should 
readily detect a cooling effect on our eyes or instruments every time a 
telescope is aimed into the cold depths of space. Does the fact that no one has 
reported such a cooling effect mean frigorific radiation doesn't exist. Not 
necessarily. Such a conclusion is based on the assumption that when a 
concentrator of a given size focuses cooling radiation from a colder body the 
effective cooling power increases as the temperature of the colder body 
decreases in the same way as the effective heating power of a hotter body 
increases as the temperature of the hotter body increases.

However, if cooling power does not scale like heating power, then using a 
thermometer to detect cooling from radiation from deep space at 3 degree Kelvin 
will probably require a concentrator (i.e. a telescope)  that is much larger 
than any current or planned telescope.

Harry


On Sun, Jan 30, 2022 at 9:18 PM H LV 
mailto:hveeder...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Some telescopes by virtue of their design should already be capable of
revealing cooling radiation if it existed.

eg. This telescope consists of a primary parabolic reflector and three
secondary mirrors which direct the collected light into an instrument
room several meters away from the primary reflector. See the first few
two photos on this page:
http://www.vikdhillon.staff.shef.ac.uk/teaching/phy217/telescopes/phy217_tel_coude.html<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vikdhillon.staff.shef.ac.uk%2Fteaching%2Fphy217%2Ftelescopes%2Fphy217_tel_coude.html=05%7C01%7CChrisZell%40wetmtv.com%7C03ded8ade33b48add9af08da26ee10de%7C9e5488e2e83844f6886cc7608242767e%7C0%7C0%7C637865101179940425%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=9yd6F%2FEnsmiWWzjNwSC%2Bg5MRqJMUEAiuZOk7PsLVpOU%3D=0>

This telescope should be capable of focusing enough frigorific
radiation it could be sensed by a hand crossing the path of the beam
in the instrument room. It seems unlikely that such an odd cooling
sensation would go unreported. Therefore it is likely frigorific
radiation is not real.


Harry



On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 4:43 PM MSF 
mailto:foster...@protonmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Don't forget to give us the result of your experiment if you do it.
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>
> On Monday, January 24th, 2022 at 9:06 PM, MSF 
> mailto:foster...@protonmail.com>> wrote:
>
> > Now that we have learned about all there is to learn about the acquisition 
> > and preservation of dry ice, I think you're right about this test. The 
> > double parabola test you initially proposed would not have proved or 
> > disproved cooling radiation. The dry ice at the focus would have been a 
> > radiative heat sink and would have lowered the temperature at the other 
> > focus. At least that's my opinion of it.
> >
> > The simpler test you propose really demonstrates the idea of cooling 
> > radiation as its own wave phenomenon, if it exists.
> >
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> >
> > On Monday, January 24th, 2022 at 5:35 PM, H LV 
> > hveeder...@gmail.com<mailto:hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > From a fabrication standpoint here is an even simpler test for cooling
> > >
> > > radiation.
> > >
> > > It consists of a truncated cone lined with reflective mylar on the
> > >
> > > inside. The wide end is open to the sky and a thermometer is located
> > >
> > > at the vertex of the cone.
> > >
> > > See diagram:
> > >
>

RE: [Vo]:A simpler test

[Chris Zell]

Could there be a way to generate energy by ‘transmitting away’ the earth’s 
relative charge into neutral space? Using something similar to this method?

From: H LV 
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2022 12:33 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A simpler test

Update...
I haven't done any experiments yet, but I have refined my thinking about the 
nature of cooling or frigorific radiation.

Instead of striving for extremely low temperatures, I recently realised it 
should be possible to look for cooling radiation between bodies which have a 
large relative temperature difference.

Also I was worried that if frigorific radiation were real then we should 
readily detect a cooling effect on our eyes or instruments every time a 
telescope is aimed into the cold depths of space. Does the fact that no one has 
reported such a cooling effect mean frigorific radiation doesn't exist. Not 
necessarily. Such a conclusion is based on the assumption that when a 
concentrator of a given size focuses cooling radiation from a colder body the 
effective cooling power increases as the temperature of the colder body 
decreases in the same way as the effective heating power of a hotter body 
increases as the temperature of the hotter body increases.

However, if cooling power does not scale like heating power, then using a 
thermometer to detect cooling from radiation from deep space at 3 degree Kelvin 
will probably require a concentrator (i.e. a telescope)  that is much larger 
than any current or planned telescope.

Harry


On Sun, Jan 30, 2022 at 9:18 PM H LV 
mailto:hveeder...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Some telescopes by virtue of their design should already be capable of
revealing cooling radiation if it existed.

eg. This telescope consists of a primary parabolic reflector and three
secondary mirrors which direct the collected light into an instrument
room several meters away from the primary reflector. See the first few
two photos on this page:
http://www.vikdhillon.staff.shef.ac.uk/teaching/phy217/telescopes/phy217_tel_coude.html

This telescope should be capable of focusing enough frigorific
radiation it could be sensed by a hand crossing the path of the beam
in the instrument room. It seems unlikely that such an odd cooling
sensation would go unreported. Therefore it is likely frigorific
radiation is not real.


Harry



On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 4:43 PM MSF 
mailto:foster...@protonmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Don't forget to give us the result of your experiment if you do it.
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>
> On Monday, January 24th, 2022 at 9:06 PM, MSF 
> mailto:foster...@protonmail.com>> wrote:
>
> > Now that we have learned about all there is to learn about the acquisition 
> > and preservation of dry ice, I think you're right about this test. The 
> > double parabola test you initially proposed would not have proved or 
> > disproved cooling radiation. The dry ice at the focus would have been a 
> > radiative heat sink and would have lowered the temperature at the other 
> > focus. At least that's my opinion of it.
> >
> > The simpler test you propose really demonstrates the idea of cooling 
> > radiation as its own wave phenomenon, if it exists.
> >
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> >
> > On Monday, January 24th, 2022 at 5:35 PM, H LV 
> > hveeder...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > From a fabrication standpoint here is an even simpler test for cooling
> > >
> > > radiation.
> > >
> > > It consists of a truncated cone lined with reflective mylar on the
> > >
> > > inside. The wide end is open to the sky and a thermometer is located
> > >
> > > at the vertex of the cone.
> > >
> > > See diagram:
> > >
> > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1p7coRgUqwzMGw40DhUQzJACCyHrd8EL5/view?usp=sharing
> > >
> > > If cooling radiation does not exist then the temperature of the
> > >
> > > thermometer should be about the same or perhaps slightly warmer when
> > >
> > > the cone is above it.
> > >
> > > However, if cooling radiation is real and has wave-like properties
> > >
> > > then the cone should focus the cooling radiation 

RE: [Vo]:This smells like an April 1 joke

[Chris Zell]

As things now stand, automobile drivers are getting a free ride. That's not 
fair.

Toll roads/bridges?  License/registration fees?  Gasoline taxes?

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RE: [Vo]:Using the cold universe as a renewable and sustainable energy source

[Chris Zell]

Since you guys brought the subject up, I continue to wonder if it might be 
possible to tap the basic charge of our atmosphere ( earth to air current) by 
transmitting it away?

http://www.rexresearch.com/prentice/prentice.htm

Obviously, a huge VLF signal is very different from radiant heat.  But I keep 
thinking there must be a way to exploit this charge difference via packaging it 
as an RF transmission.

The part of this I can’t wrap my head around concerns the difference between a 
form of conduction vs outright RF waves ( which work in a vacuum).  There was 
an odd form of radio invented by a guy named  Rogers who tried to use it to 
communicate with subs. It seemed to be something in between  RF and ground 
conduction but across distances. That might apply here.

From: MSF 
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 4:00 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Using the cold universe as a renewable and sustainable energy 
source

This is indeed great stuff.   Jed, do you have a reference to the Lowland India 
method? I can only find the Persian ice making structures.  Or are they the 
same?


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Thursday, January 13th, 2022 at 7:18 PM, Jed Rothwell 
mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com>> wrote:

This is great stuff.

This method was used to make ice in lowland India starting in the 16th century. 
Lowland India is hot!




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RE: [Vo]:Alien science -The fabric of time

[Chris Zell]

I recall the balance beam of Richard Vialle in which  an accelerated rotor 
seemed to become briefly lighter, then heavier upon deacceleration.  Also, the 
work of Kosyrev in examining mass during vibration or irregular motion.

From: Frank Znidarsic 
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2021 11:48 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:Alien science -The fabric of time

Thank you Don.  If you check the vortex achieves you will find that my work is 
nothing compared to that of Jones B.  Here is what others have said about it.

https://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chapterg.html

What I am saying is is that inertial mass is not a conserved property of the 
universe.  It can be reduced to zero and then we could go faster than light 
speed, maybe.


Frank Znidarsic





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RE: [Vo]:ufo report to be coming out in a month --> off list

[Chris Zell]

I’m afraid I truly don’t understand your ideas. I have read about Wallace but 
the tolerances and speeds look way beyond what I can build.

My ideas try to exploit simple empiricism.

First, investigate all anomalies and crazy inventions.

Discard the 99.9% that are crap.

Build and iterate the remaining .01% that actually is something.

Save the world single handedly thereby.

I have a working hypothesis to support this.  The stock market is the most 
analyzed to death field in our culture – yet, strangely, anomalies pop up in 
which profits get made because simple facts get lost in the shuffle.

Thus, I nearly doubled my money on a stock called Continental Homes years ago.  
Afterward, one pundit asked, “why didn’t somebody see this?” ( as to how nobody 
saw they were almost ‘printing money’ in profits)  I did.  I think Wall Street 
was misled because housing stocks were not popular, the company was obscure and 
their P/E ratio of less than 4 made people think they were in distress, rather 
than rolling in cash.

BUT   !!! if such may apply to vital money making, could small blind spots 
exist in science – that might be exploited?  I suspect so.  It’s all within the 
context of human reasoning and attention.

And what gets said automatically about centrifugal force?  “Oh, it’s just a 
pseudo-force”.

Sounds dismissive to me.  Worth looking at.


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RE: [Vo]:ufo report to be coming out in a month

[Chris Zell]

There was a French physicist ( Vialle?) who built a balance beam with a heavy 
rotor.  Accelerate the rotor and that end of the beam goes up as lighter.  
Deaccelerate and it goes down as heavier.  Perhaps this agrees with Kosyrev 
experiments long ago.

From: Don 
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 8:28 AM
To: Vortex People 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:ufo report to be coming out in a month


Hi Frank,



As you wrote below, do you mean that momentum can disappear?

Or that momentum can be 'created' from other fields storing a potential energy?

Does this allow a Z-wave, per se, to become an inertial transformer?  In 
principle.



Thanks,

DonEM


On 5/27/2021 8:34 AM, Frank Znidarsic wrote:
I think something that many are missing in this analysis it that inertial mass 
is not a conserved property of the universe.


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RE: [Vo]:ufo report to be coming out in a month

[Chris Zell]

Yes, this definitely

This is discussed in Millennial Hospitality.  It claims their craft uses an 
internal surrounding of fiber optics in which gyroscopic precession takes 
place.  I think there is also a claim that the US military provided fiber of 
extreme length to help them repair a damaged craft.

From: Frank Znidarsic 
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 10:35 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:ufo report to be coming out in a month

I think something that many are missing in this analysis it that inertial mass 
is not a conserved property of the universe.


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RE: Dave Beaty Re: [Vo]:ufo report to be coming out in a month

[Chris Zell]

As for Aliens getting marooned here, I wonder about a similar idea.

Both "Communion" and Linda Howe claim Aliens have something to do with an 
afterlife.  I wonder if we are undesirable as to reincarnation elsewhere so 
they set things up to keep us here.  Not on my planet, Monkey-Boy.


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RE: Dave Beaty Re: [Vo]:ufo report to be coming out in a month

[Chris Zell]

A few thoughts about UFO’s:

If I was an Alien, I’d think twice about eating humans or anything else on this 
planet.  Pollution, toxic metals, plastic residue and God knows what else is in 
the meat.  Like eating seafood with potential mercury in it.   Don’t touch that 
human, you don’t know where he’s been.

There have been claims after Roswell that an Alien said they use bodies as 
‘dolls’ or remote units – so they can experience things but stay safe – 
wherever home is.

There have been claims that Earth is unique in its wild abundance of life and 
different species. Steven Greer talked about some ET’s picking wild flowers.  
The Tall Whites seem to use Earth as a way station or interesting place to 
visit –  with one female visiting here since Monroe was President.

I also speculate that a telepathic or collective consciousness might be 
critical in these ET’s because otherwise, they might blow themselves up as that 
which humans are headed towards.  If they really can immobilize nukes, God 
speed.  Clinton once said, “I feel your pain” but that needs to be more than 
metaphorical.

There is recent speculation that UFO disclosure is being done to give the 
Military Industrial Complex a new expensive enemy to fight – in building space 
weapons.  I hope it’s because of the Chinese putting pressure on the Pentagon 
in a disclosure competition.


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RE: Dave Beaty Re: [Vo]:ufo report to be coming out in a month

[Chris Zell]

What I wonder about is:

What could we possibly have that they would want, that they can’t freely 
provide for themselves?

And

How can they have any sort of unified command or enforcement of a Prime 
Directive since any one of them could reveal their existence in such an obvious 
fashion as to achieve full disclosure?
Think about a single Alien deciding “Disclosure be happenin’ today, bitches”.  
It doesn’t happen that way.


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RE: [Vo]:Carbon transmutation video?

[Chris Zell]

I wish there was a way to use Cold Fusion to transmute something cheap into 
rhodium.

That way, we could use it to become freakin' rich heretics and tell them to go 
screw themselves..

RE: [Vo]:superluminal mind

[Chris Zell]

I think you provide a far better explanation for evolution than current 
Darwinist orthodoxy - which sounds too much like a Kipling "just so" story.

-Original Message-
From: russ.geo...@gmail.com  
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2020 3:08 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:superluminal mind

Where can I get some of what you smoke

 

RE: [Vo]:A Question About Paul Brown

[Chris Zell]

I think the Papp engine was real. However, I also think it may be a case of 
“hidden in plain sight”.

I think the radioactive stuff and inert gases may have been deliberate 
misdirection.  There was a controversy years back in which a Professor Graneau 
asserted that arcs in water might be overunity. The same might go for arcs in 
water vapor.  There was supposedly a demonstration for the government in which 
a cannon was blown apart like a Roadrunner cartoon. This would be similar to 
trees being blown apart by lightning – that wasn’t a steam expolsion.

From: Axil Axil 
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2020 7:05 PM
To: vortex-l 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Question About Paul Brown

The Papp engine used radium or thorium to increase the sensitivity of the 
electrode to electron extraction from the plasma. The alpha decay of Radium 
biased the pickup electrode with a positive charge that would attract 
electrons. This idea came from the well known technique used to dope lightning 
rods with radium back in the 1800s to increase the ability of these rods to 
attract lightning.  In the Papp engine, the application of an electric arc 
increased the production of alpha decay right before the feedback current was 
produced by the plasma.

On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 4:30 PM Robin 
mailto:mixent...@aussiebroadband.com.au>> 
wrote:
In reply to  Chris Zell's message of Tue, 22 Sep 2020 15:38:15 +:
Hi Chris,
[snip]
>Does anyone have any info on this topic?   It seems to me that either Paul 
>Brown was a deliberate, calculated fraud or he discovered something of immense 
>value.
Have you seen this already? 
http://www.rexresearch.com/nucell/nucell.htm
See also 
http://wiki.naturalphilosophy.org/index.php?title=Paul_M_Brown
and 
http://gratisenergi.se/hubbard.htm


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[Vo]:A Question About Paul Brown

[Chris Zell]

Does anyone have any info on this topic?   It seems to me that either Paul 
Brown was a deliberate, calculated fraud or he discovered something of immense 
value.

I don't think any middle ground is possible.  He claimed to be able to tap 
radioactive decay in some way that physics does not recognize.
As I recall, the only documentation he had was a very old Scientific American 
article about triggering radio signal amplification using an antenna coated 
with radium

Was there any theory or results to support him?   Triggering radioactive decay 
to create a power source is held to be impossible ( by ordinary means).

Chris Zell
Broadcast Engineer
WETM-TV
101 E. Water ST.
Elmira, NY 14901
607-733-5518 x1224
607-734-1176 Fax
607-207-1041 Cell
chrisz...@wetmtv.com<mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com>
[wetm-sig]

[Nexstar_NMG_rgb]

WETM does not discriminate in advertising contracts on the basis of race, 
ethnicity or gender and further requires that in the performance of all WETM 
advertising agreements, WETM requires that each party not discriminate on the 
basis of race or ethnicity. This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are 
the property of Nexstar Broadcasting, Inc., are confidential, and are intended 
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom this email is addressed 
and/or as indicated in the applicable file. If you are not one of the named 
recipient(s) or otherwise have reason to believe that you have received this 
message in error, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately 
from your computer. Any other use, retention, dissemination, forwarding, 
printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited.

RE: [Vo]:"Burning"hydrogen with argon ?

[Chris Zell]

I suspect that the Papp engine involves a secret hiding in plain sight.

Inert gases have nothing to do with it. It’s the electrohydraulic effect using 
water vapor. Supposedly, there was a government test, previous to the tragic 
Feynmann incident, in which a gun barrel exploded like petals on a flower, 
cartoon-style.

I did a Quora question on lightning and couldn’t get a straight answer on how 
these discharges work, as the official narrative makes no sense at all.  
Charges in clouds shouldn’t accumulate because of electrostatic repulsion, no 
different from a stack precipitator.
One physicist did offer a reference from a Russian paper which claimed cosmic 
rays trigger lightning but that doesn’t cover the whole thing.

The secret to free energy could be right in front of us, every time it thunders.

From: Jones Beene 
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2020 2:31 PM
To: vortex 
Subject: [Vo]:"Burning"hydrogen with argon ?

An interesting proposition for an advanced transportation fuel would be 
presented to us - IF (big if) hydrogen can be routinely converted into a denser 
form on a catalyst, and then expanded in a piston engine configuration. This 
concept would relate to using argon as a "pseudo oxidizer." Argon is not 
exactly "inert" to the same extent as helium and other Column eight atoms (Vlll 
on the periodic table).

AFAIK this exact concept, when transposed into a piston engine configuration, 
has never been explored... or has it? There is the Papp engine, which used 
argon and other inert gases but did not use hydrogen; and there is the Laumann 
engine which included oxygen with argon and no surface catalyst -- but neither 
of those is precisely the same.


sender.

RE: [Vo]:Israel

[Chris Zell]

Maybe they could wear a yellow star instead.

Look, as some one in my '60's, I'm starting to get angry at calls for arbitrary 
isolation. 

-Original Message-
From: H LV  
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 10:25 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:Israel

This is a politically scary development.

https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftechcrunch.com%2F2020%2F03%2F18%2Fisrael-passes-emergency-law-to-use-mobile-data-for-covid-19-contact-tracing%2Fdata=02%7C01%7CChrisZell%40wetmtv.com%7C918f0b48bb2d4808123408d7cbacb233%7C9e5488e2e83844f6886cc7608242767e%7C0%7C0%7C637201814897924370sdata=jKj940CMdlVKaSSuUEfWtAfriJsYk7N%2BuKZg43N6%2Bs8%3Dreserved=0

In response many people will stop carrying or turn off their cell phone. Then 
the government might force people to carry a cell phone that is always on.

Harry



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RE: [Vo]:Aetheric Science - Invitation to take part

[Chris Zell]

Sounds like Pavlita stuff.

Build a pyramid-thing that lights an LED by itself ( if that can be done). Or 
some other simple inexplicable toy.

From: Jonathan Berry 
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 4:09 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Aetheric Science - Invitation to take part

Thanks Harry...

I had already made contact with Dean Radin (a scientist there who did a google 
talk) and he seemed a little interested but it didn't go anywhere back in 2017. 
  My tech is stronger now so perhaps that could be different this time.

I tried now and rang several times going though to different extensions with 
none answering (left a message on one), all the email addresses say they don't 
answer emails, so we'll see what comes of that.

It is very hard getting attention for something that looks more like the realm 
of magical sigils or psychotronics, but that is just the means of demonstrating 
the effect without needing to physically ship or recreate material devices.

Despite the easily demonstrated reality of the effect, despite the 
applicability to hardware, despite the EXTREME promise of such technology, it 
is hard, to find an iota of interest, and more likely the person is to be 
"useful" to the objective on making this technology feasible the less likely 
they are to hear the pitch.

The appearance of this is killing it.  I keep thinking that if I make it strong 
enough, startling enough (the intensity people report feeling from the images 
does increase as I improve the technology to a remarkable degree, something 
that could not occur with a placebo effect) that at some point it will be taken 
more seriously, and maybe it will...

But, that won't happen if "USEFUL" people don't try it in the first place.

RE: [Vo]:More on the WuFlu conspiracy theory

[Chris Zell]

http://orthomolecular.activehosted.com/index.php?action=social=02522a2b2726fb0a03bb19f2d8d9524d.138=da1d33963e25ae5c7c900f389d9a5b13


This guy.  My personal experience is mixed. Sometimes Vitamin C does nothing 
but other times it can be quite dramatic – as when I got mononucleosis and it 
vanished in less than 3 days.

From: Jones Beene 
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 4:59 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:More on the WuFlu conspiracy theory

An effective and inexpensive treatment this virus is once again being promoted 
by the L Pauling crowd... this time, maybe more strongly than ever.

These zealots may not be medically correct - as the evidence goes both ways and 
is heavily anecdotal - but make no mistake, the C industry is a billion dollar 
success and growing in the USA - even despite not winning the battle for 
mainstream "professional" acceptance.

The public likes Vitamin C,  even if the MDs are skeptical and YouTube and the 
social networks are flooded with mostly positive info.

Bottom line ... valid evidence or not... count me in (to start mega-dosing with 
C), if the virus should spread to my county... which it probably will.


  Jonathan Berry wrote:


The other side of this is that the severe cases with treatment can
often be prevented from turning into fatalities.

RE: [Vo]:Off topic, or maybe not

[Chris Zell]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_for_Defense_of_Democracies

Does Israel have ready-made lobbyist groups who are pushing for war and who 
might create any false news or false flag to achieve that?

From: Jones Beene 
Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2020 10:02 AM
To: vortex 
Subject: [Vo]:Off topic, or maybe not

Does Iran already have all or part of the missing Russian nuclear arsenal which 
went missing from Kazakhstan ?

Does Iran Already Have Nuclear 
Weapons?

[cid:image001.png@01D5C472.94777430]

[Text Box:]
Does Iran Already Have Nuclear Weapons?

What if what you have been told over and over again is not really the truth?

RE: [Vo]:How to make money with cold fusion

[Chris Zell]

Heat some Japanese homes with it.  Electricity and Kerosene must get expensive.

RE: [Vo]:Congress up in arms over UFOs

[Chris Zell]

Could be.  It may be like causes for war.  The US starts militating against 
some nation and by sheer coincidence causes for immediate military action 
appear, as if by magic.

From: Terry Blanton 
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2019 2:58 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Congress up in arms over UFOs

It is as I read somewhere, as long as there are several trillion dollars of oil 
untapped, cold fusion will remain "fringe science".  When we need it, it will 
suddenly become accepted.  Same with AG.

RE: [Vo]:

[Chris Zell]

Typical of our irresponsible leadership.  The problem was huge in Cold War days 
(which are making a comeback) because maybe this stuff could trigger an 
accidental war.  After decades of sightings by sane people, they suddenly want 
answers.  I suppose once Trump starts a war that triggers a global depression, 
years later they might debate ‘maybe we were too quick to attack”.

I suppose we should be grateful it happened at all…..


From: Axil Axil 
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2019 8:04 PM
To: vortex-l 
Subject: [Vo]:

Congress up in arms

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/20/politics/ufo-sightings-navy-briefs-us-senators/index.html

The Senate wants answers about the UFOs that are causing havoc with naval 
aircraft operations.

Senator Warner wants answers. It doesn't matter if it's weather balloons, 
little green men, or something else entirely — we can't ask our pilots to put 
their lives at risk unnecessarily," Rachel Cohen, the spokeswoman for 
Democratic Virginia Sen. Mark Warner, told CNN.

How about 47 foot EVOs. Would that also be a concern for the lawmakers?

RE: [Vo]:Another attempt at a live broadcast of a reputed breakthrough in magnetic power

[Chris Zell]

the possibility of “sparkgap OU”

Has there ever been any rigorous analysis of sparkgaps that might suggest that? 
 It gets claimed from time to time in fringe inventions.

[Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Physicists spot the signatures of nuclear fusion in a table-top device – Physics World

[Chris Zell]

Not to be dismissive but table top fusion was done half a century ago with the 
Farnsworth Fusor.
Don’t know why it never went further

From: Jack Cole 
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2019 5:54 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:Physicists spot the signatures of nuclear fusion in a table-top 
device – Physics World

https://physicsworld.com/a/physicists-spot-the-signatures-of-nuclear-fusion-in-a-table-top-device/

RE: [Vo]:Magmo in the land of lost wages...

[Chris Zell]

Across many years, garage based inventors seem to have tried everything 
conceivable.  I therefore wonder if some subtle effect has been missed.

It seems to be a version of the Sweet device.  Self oscillating magnetic fields 
are mentioned but I have never heard of any paper on this.

From: Brian Ahern 
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2019 11:43 AM
To: Chris Zell ; vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Magmo in the land of lost wages...

The entire Manelas device operation seems to interact with something not yet 
understood.


From: Chris Zell mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com>>
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2019 9:31 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Magmo in the land of lost wages...


I respectfully ask about bifilar coils.  I want to understand if something 
important has been overlooked.

Whenever I see 'bifilar coils", I despair because I have never read about any 
well demonstrated significant/unusual effect from them. However, perhaps that 
is not so and there is some 'magic' here of which I am unaware.

RE: [Vo]:Magmo in the land of lost wages...

[Chris Zell]

I respectfully ask about bifilar coils.  I want to understand if something 
important has been overlooked.
Whenever I see 'bifilar coils", I despair because I have never read about any 
well demonstrated significant/unusual effect from them. However, perhaps that 
is not so and there is some 'magic' here of which I am unaware.

RE: [Vo]:Magmo in the land of lost wages...

[Chris Zell]

I think the resumes of the people involved here are very impressive and that 
their participation is difficult to account for if this was simply fake.

[cid:image001.jpg@01D4E4B6.A74450C0]

[Text Box:]


[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/youtube.png]

‘Earth Engine’ magnet motor ‘Unplugged’

Some bigshot asked for visual proof the three-ton ‘Earth Engine’ wasn’t 
secretly plugged in, so the engineering ...








Earth Engine: 3 years of 40+ kW mechanical energy production from magnets- 
orderable now - 
Revolution-Green

RE: [Vo]:Magmo in the land of lost wages...

[Chris Zell]

Could someone post a patent number or schematic?
I tend to think that a magnetic motor could work.  For example, the Werjefelt 
device might have had a good principle behind it but working out the 
cancelation of opposing force seems possible but impractical.

Earth Engine: 3 years of 40+ kW mechanical energy production from magnets- 
orderable now - 
Revolution-Green

[cid:image001.jpg@01D4E4A8.B28B4FA0]

[Text Box:]



Earth Engine: 3 years of 40+ kW mechanical energy production from magnet...

Solar-Powered Moisture Harvester Collects and Cleans Water from Air …Earth 
Engine’s CEO is a retired president a...

RE: [Vo]:viktor Grebennikov

[Chris Zell]

You're welcome.

I have noticed that there a lot of gadgets claiming free energy thru the years 
that seem to be based on rotary motion being interrupted or modulated.  Maybe 
all the way back to Bessler.
Stuff with slipping belts,  strange off center movements and so on.   There's 
also Linevich's patent about unbalanced rotation - which he, in turn, claims to 
have developed from observing a defective pump shaking violently.

If the Aspden effect is real, then it could easily be free energy - maybe 
derived from the spin within atoms transitioning from virtual to the real 
world.  I get the impression that particle spin might not be conservative as to 
the usual laws of thermodynamics.

Is it possible that this effect exists and nobody ever noticed it formally?  
Hard to believe but I can't say it's impossible.  I would think somebody in the 
inertial storage field might have noticed an anomaly.

From: bobcook39...@hotmail.com 
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2019 3:10 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:viktor Grebennikov

Many thanks to Ron, Chris and Fran for bringing  Aspden back into the light.

   [

Sent from 
Mail
 for Windows 10


From: Ron Kita mailto:chiralex.k...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2019 9:46:38 AM
To: vortex-l
Subject: Re: [Vo]:viktor Grebennikov

Hi Fran,

I find Grebenikov  most interesting. Birds gave us the concept of  flight...and 
beetles gave us gravity  repulsion. Here is the lastest from last week on 
chiral dielectric and repulsive casimir forces.  
https://physics.aps.org/synopsis-for/10.1103/PhysRevB.99.125403
If you look at Grebennikov you will see that he cites naphthalene for "odd 
effects". The benzene ring cavity is a resonator...and NASA has  a patent on 
it.   
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/39/6d/f3/4955546c970788/US8696940.pdf
Ad astra, Ron Kita, Doylestown PA   
http://www.chiralex.com
  IMHOgravity will be mastered in 2020...IF it wasn t conquered earlier.

On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 3:58 AM Roarty, Francis X 
mailto:francis.x.roa...@lmco.com>> wrote:
  I almost dismissed the viktor grebennikov articles but the cavity 
effect is intriguing and the videos Ive seen of the way the beetle wing 
levitates above another wing looks similar to meisner effect. It also fits into 
my pet theory that casimir cavities can dialate ambient gas molecules in the 
cavities into different relativistic states that act like brakes on inertia, 
remember my relativistic interpretation of casimir effect.. that all the 
virtual vacuum lengths still exist between casimir geometry but are dialated to 
fit?  If the videos are true then maybe mother nature figured out how to stack 
cavities without cancelling out. I havent been able to find much new 
information or synthetic cavity research, any suggestions or related? I would 
have like to see a wing pair better isolated from the bench in most videos - 
like on glass isolated and elovated up while one wing levitates to eliminate 
some of the variables.

[Vo]:RE: viktor Grebennikov

[Chris Zell]

I think we would need to read about someone, somewhere else producing results 
similar to his.

I think there could be some mysteries about inertia and centrifugal force 
hiding in physics - that get dismissed as "pseudoforce".  I would like to see a 
rigorous replication of what was called the "Aspden effect" - as an obscure 
Polish physics group once claimed to witness something similar.

From: Roarty, Francis X 
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2019 3:58 AM
To: 'vortex-l@eskimo.com' 
Subject: [Vo]:viktor Grebennikov

  I almost dismissed the viktor grebennikov articles but the cavity 
effect is intriguing and the videos Ive seen of the way the beetle wing 
levitates above another wing looks similar to meisner effect. It also fits into 
my pet theory that casimir cavities can dialate ambient gas molecules in the 
cavities into different relativistic states that act like brakes on inertia, 
remember my relativistic interpretation of casimir effect.. that all the 
virtual vacuum lengths still exist between casimir geometry but are dialated to 
fit?  If the videos are true then maybe mother nature figured out how to stack 
cavities without cancelling out. I havent been able to find much new 
information or synthetic cavity research, any suggestions or related? I would 
have like to see a wing pair better isolated from the bench in most videos - 
like on glass isolated and elovated up while one wing levitates to eliminate 
some of the variables.

RE: [Vo]:A simple example of Mechanical Over-Unity

[Chris Zell]

This starts to sound like the Linevich patent.  A poor guy in Vladivostok who 
claimed more out than in with unbalanced rotors

From: Vibrator ! 
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2019 11:34 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A simple example of Mechanical Over-Unity

The system is closed, and so yes, angular momentum IS constant per cycle, and, 
as explained already, the energy gain is dependent upon this fact.

It is the conservation of angular momentum that causes the energy gain.

Angular momentum is angular inertia (MoI) times angular velocity.  In a closed 
system of interacting masses, it is constant.  Thus, if MoI is reduced by half, 
say, then speed automatically doubles, to conserve their product.

This is often referred to as the 'ice skater effect' - as she pulls her limbs 
inwards, the pirouette accelerates - she spins up, due to the action of the 
conservation of angular momentum.

MoI is given by mass times radius squared (MoI = mr²).

However, the ice skater is performing work against centrifugal force as she 
pulls her limbs inwards. The integral of that force over that displacement 
gives a figure, in Joules, precisely equal to the rise in rotational KE.

So, generally, this interaction is indeed energy conservative, as well as 
momentum conservative.

Rotational KE however is also a function of MoI.  So, it's a central factor in 
both momentum, and KE.

Rot KE = ½ MoI times angular velocity squared (½Iw², equivalent to the ½mV² 
linear metric).

These are just the standard formulas, not complicated equations.   Everyone 
here can solve them in seconds.

So with these points in mind, please observe the "MoI exploit" diagram:  it 
shows that it is trivially-easy to cut MoI in half, by suddenly locating twice 
as much mass, at half the radius.

Again, because MoI squares with radius (it's mass times radius squared), twice 
the mass at half the radius equals half the MoI.

This MoI change occurs instantaneously, and is caused by the torque being 
applied to the orbiting motors.

The instant it is applied, the system's MoI ceases being a function of the 
absolute mass radius, and instead devolves to that of the orbiting mass radius 
being borne at the orbiting axes themselves..

..and so its value is halved.


Yet, it is a closed-system of interacting masses, without a stator - so, it has 
no mechanical means of exchanging momentum with the outside world.  Its 
momentum is conserved.

So, its speed instantly doubles.

Yet rotKE squares with speed - it doesn't simply double or half...

..and so half the MoI at twice the speed equals twice the energy.

CoAM has just doubled our system KE, for free - we've performed zero work 
against centrifugal force - we haven't even performed the radial translation 
yet, the masses are still out at their physical max radius.  But their mass is 
only 'felt' - only has substantive context in relation to - the radius of the 
torque-couple - ie. the radius of the motor axis applying the torque.


At the same time however, this torque is cancelling the real rotations of the 
orbiting rotors, and so transferring their very real momentum over to the 
central axis instead, conserving its total.

But, because they're no longer actually rotating, the orbiting rotors are not 
generating axial CF force...

..the masses are still subject to orbital CF force, however the inbound vs 
outbound F*d integrals for that workload are mutually self-cancelling, summing 
to zero work done.

Hence that final radial translation, consolidating the effective (dynamic) MoI 
reduction and subsequent KE rise, with a physical (static), equal MoI 
reduction, is free to perform - no net work has been done.

So in summary, in the basic "200%, no gravity" example, the system begins 
coasting, carrying 8 J of rotKE, with an MoI of 16 kg-m².

That MoI is then halved down to 8 kg-m², the instant torque's applied to the 
orbiting rotors.  So system velocity - and rotKE - duly double. Instantly.  
Without accelerating.

Physical slabs of mass simply 'flip' between physical velocities, 
INSTANTANEOUSLY.   An "infinite acceleration", in zero time.  No measurable 
acceleration phase at all, basically.  Just a binary change in speed - and 
corresponding kinetic energy.




Please, don't stress, anyone - i had low expectations of what to expect here, 
but precisely because of the absurdity of the claim in contrast to Vorts' high 
level of scholarship.  Again, everyone here can solve this on the back of an 
envelope.

If it helps, here are two further control cases to compare to the previous ones:

in the first, the radial translation - and thus, physical consolidation of the 
energy gain - has been omitted:

RE: [Vo]:Successful Mechanical OU

[Chris Zell]

As a Gedanken experiment, is it possible that inertia could be have a free 
energy aspect to it, if it is slightly more persistent than thought?

Say you have a rotor that absorbs energy when accelerated and sheds it during 
deacceleration ( as loaded then) – if you quickly switch between these states, 
is it possible that it persists in rotating during deacceleration to a tiny 
degree in excess of what conservation would suggest?  Hence, overunity/free 
energy during brief moments……

RE: [Vo]:Successful Mechanical OU

[Chris Zell]

If this thing is real, give up trying to get fame or fortune out of it.

Just mail copies of how to build it to various people who are likely to put it 
together – before you get mysteriously stopped somehow.
Destroying the elite is a worthy goal of a lifetime.

RE: [Vo]:Successful Mechanical OU

[Chris Zell]

So give us good pictures already. Enough with the verbiage.

I increasingly believe in the negative power of stigmergy rather than 
conspiracy.  People just blindly follow each other like termites and build 
ideas as truth.   “Everybody knows” that centrifugal force is just a pseudo- 
force, right?  No reason to examine it……

While Eric Laithwaite was criticized widely, I was impressed that a heavy rotor 
could be lifted and swung around with little effort, pseudo-force or not.

RE: [Vo]:Successful Mechanical OU

[Chris Zell]

If the prototype works, let’s see a You Tube.  Or at least some good drawings.

RE: [Vo]:Successful Mechanical OU

[Chris Zell]

I have wondered if the Aspden Effect could be a free energy effect.   There was 
an obscure Polish physics group that seemed to replicate it or something very 
much like it.

A gyroscope or rotating mass can have a memory effect, according to this.  You 
brake it and re-spin it up to the original rpms and find that it takes far less 
energy to do so when compared with that which you used to get it to that rpm 
level initially.  Makes you wonder if one could simply accelerate and 
deaccelerate while gathering net energy.  

I also wonder about the Morgan/Wallace experiments in that it was reported that 
a lead rotor (20K + rpm) produced a field effect causing a similar rotor 1/16" 
away to rotate..in the opposite direction!  If so, as opposite, is that 
sympathetic movement 'free energy'?

RE: [Vo]:Successful Mechanical OU

[Chris Zell]

Build it.   Simulations aren't enough.

I do think there might be a way to use centrifugal force that hasn't been 
exploited yet, as with the Linevich patent.

RE: [Vo]:LENR in a battery?

[Chris Zell]

I think the critical issue is not a Maxwell’s Demon definition per se but 
rather is it a violation of thermodynamics, as the Demon is thought to be?

From: JonesBeene <jone...@pacbell.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 3:59 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:LENR in a battery?

Maxwell’s demon is usually interpreted to imply some kind of sorting  mechanism 
which discriminates among particles in order to produce at least two 
populations which vary in a desired property.  The property does not have to be 
heat – here is one based on photonics.
https://phys.org/news/2016-02-physicists-photonic-maxwell-demon.html

There have been many systems which are proved to sort and separate on a small 
or quantum scale. The Ranque Hilsch vortex tube is one which can operate at 
high power levels and gave this forum its name. If the mechanism doesn’t sort 
and separate - then it probably is not a “Demon”.



From: Chris Zell<mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com>

If you gain from ambient heat, is that a Maxwell’s Demon sort of violation?

RE: [Vo]:LENR in a battery?

[Chris Zell]

If you gain from ambient heat, is that a Maxwell’s Demon sort of violation?

RE: [Vo]:Magnetic Spin Vortex

[Chris Zell]

I didn’t know about that one.  It looks like a much more complex version of the 
‘magnetic battery’ of Bertil Werjefelt.

I tried making a copy of his patent but found it to be impractical since 
repulsion and attraction manifest differently and getting them to balance out 
is very difficult.  Attraction is narrow, repulsion is broad.  And magnets set 
in repulsion repeatedly may wear out.

I’d like to try to reproduce the Linevich device.

From: JonesBeene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2017 12:57 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Magnetic Spin Vortex

From: Chris Zell<mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com>


  *   ….and what do we see? Things such as Bedini, Schauberger (liquid and 
air), Rotoverters,  flywheels with deliberately slipping belts, Linevich, 
claims by Kanarev and a large proportion of the ‘tin foil hat’ devices reported 
on Rex Research.  The Wallace inventions (‘kinemassic effect’) claimed a direct 
link with half integer spin materials.   Could something have been overlooked 
here?

These devices will always be “tin hat” unless or until… against all odds, they 
become the “next big thing.” They never seem to die a natural death.

BTW - you did not mention my favorite for the tin hat category – the Miller 
Colson device.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US8487484B1/en

The rumor mill has this one already in full mass production…

… meaning of course that they are probably sharing the same robotic assembly 
line which is cranking out Rossi’s vaporware.

RE: [Vo]:Magnetic Spin Vortex

[Chris Zell]

It suddenly struck me one day that the reputed Aspden effect might be a sign of 
free energy – in that it might hint that torque could be added and subtracted 
from a rotating mass so as to result in a net gain.

If this is true, then we would expect to see various devices pop up, from time 
to time, that claim overunity involving an intermittent or off balance use of 
rotational inertia……….and what do we see?

Things such as Bedini, Schauberger (liquid and air), Rotoverters,  flywheels 
with deliberately slipping belts, Linevich, claims by Kanarev and a large 
proportion of the ‘tin foil hat’ devices reported on Rex Research.

The Wallace inventions (‘kinemassic effect’) claimed a direct link with half 
integer spin materials.   Could something have been overlooked here?  Sorry if 
I’m a little off topic ( but maybe not as much as you might think)

From: JonesBeene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2017 10:35 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Magnetic Spin Vortex

From: Chris Zell<mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com>

  *   OK, here’s my current puzzlement: is it possible that physics has ignored 
a free energy effect within rotational inertia?
It is possible that a gainful effect has been overlooked, and that is why it is 
fun to figure out which of these vids are faked. Rotational anomalies are 
probably the closest to showing a valid anomaly but most of the videos are 
fakes. Hopefully the one in thousand will show up soon. There are spatial 
avenues for augmenting inertia – such as the DCE (dynamical Casimir effect).

However, since no one has been able to demonstrate a device that shows true 
gain … unequivocally, and which has been fully replicated, the Laws of 
Thermodynamics are still on the books (but they are not true Laws and will 
fizzle away IF adequate scientific proof arrives, even if the gain is slight).

RE: [Vo]:Magnetic Spin Vortex

[Chris Zell]

Angular momentum is a vector quantity and in QM has kinetic energy associated 
with it.

Is angular momentum in particles conservative?  Does it violate laws of 
thermodynamics?  Is spin left out of conservative formulas because it 
unbalances the results?

RE: [Vo]:Magnetic Spin Vortex

[Chris Zell]

Quantum spin (nanometer level and below) is always in motion, and the anomaly 
would be lack of motion - yet at the micro-level self-generated spin as angular 
momentum would imply “perpetual motion” if it were a reproducible and 
“harvestable” phenomenon. Is there a middle ground

OK, here’s my current puzzlement: is it possible that physics has ignored a 
free energy effect within rotational inertia?

For centuries down to You Tube videos today, there have been people claiming 
that energy can be extracted from a rotating mass, in one guise or another.  At 
present, there are the inertia formulas of Kanarev and the Linevich device.   
Related to this, was the Aspden effect actually a free energy effect – in that 
it appeared that less energy was required to return a rotating mass back to its 
original level of rpm? I understand that a Polish physics group reproduced some 
of what Aspden saw, quite easily. And there was something like a field produced 
in the Wallace inventions and later, Morgan.

Could rotational inertia be ‘stickier’ or more persistent than calculated? And 
if more persistent than thought, could it be used to generate net energy in 
adding and subtracting from a rotating mass? Does this relate to angular 
momentum in particles?  And magnetism as a form of spin itself?

RE: [Vo]:Robots to replace writers.

[Chris Zell]

Your opinions are arrogant and arbitrary.   For a site such as this, that’s 
unfortunate.

Since the long term effects of technology are often impossible to predict, all 
sorts of things can emerge that damage the Elite’s rule.  Phone companies 
deeply regretted not pacing solid bandwidth charges on early internet use.

Many of the world leaders are affected by dementia, alcoholism and drug use – 
or simple self-serving laziness.  Example: a drunken Juncker and revelations 
about dementia medications used in Washington DC within Congress ( past month).

From: Che [mailto:comandantegri...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2017 7:39 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Robots to replace writers.



On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:10 PM, Chris Zell 
<chrisz...@wetmtv.com<mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com>> wrote:
My background is libertarian but I now feel some form of communism could be in 
our future, by default.

First, consider that deflationary factors could drive economies into permanent 
stimulus with scant regard for debts.  Even Bloomberg admits that the Bank of 
Japan may own a big chunk of their stock market already.  If they are forced 
into buying up stocks and bonds without end in order to avoid collapse, then we 
have a form of communism – if you consider things such as the Fed to be part of 
the government.

Second,  suppose automation does give us mass production of quality goods at 
very low prices?  If scarcity has always been the obstacle in socialist 
systems, then this might overcome it.  Leaders in China may believe this to be 
true – and time will tell if they are correct.


Look: you're not QUALIFIED to define the term 'communism'. Simple as that.

Stop trying. You just look bad (at best).



However -- we DO know that NO new technology or research is going to be funded 
by a bankrupt World Capitalist order: unless of course, it appears to have 
'Military significance'...


So no wonder so many of you here are so hostile to the anti-Militarists amongst 
us: you are *eager* to get the *sure* funding which now accompanies the buildup 
to what looks like an increasingly likely WWIII.






From: Daniel Rocha [mailto:danieldi...@gmail.com<mailto:danieldi...@gmail.com>]
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2017 5:57 AM
To: John Milstone <vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Robots to replace writers.

I guess you are being ultra left here. The guy is showing will to learn and you 
are kind of snubbing him.

2017-10-13 3:29 GMT-03:00 Che 
<comandantegri...@gmail.com<mailto:comandantegri...@gmail.com>>:


This is just (yawn) one more fake 'post-marxist' analysis (of which there has 
been plenty: 'Post Modernism' being the exemplar of this genre). Dismissing the 
importance of those CENTRAL materialist concepts -- the Means and Mode of 
Production -- is a dead giveaway that this is just one more 
quasi-/pseudo-'scientific' analysis. With a suspect political-economic -- no 
doubt petit-bourgeois liberal -- agenda behind it, of course.






--
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com<mailto:danieldi...@gmail.com>

RE: [Vo]:Robots to replace writers.

[Chris Zell]

My background is libertarian but I now feel some form of communism could be in 
our future, by default.

First, consider that deflationary factors could drive economies into permanent 
stimulus with scant regard for debts.  Even Bloomberg admits that the Bank of 
Japan may own a big chunk of their stock market already.  If they are forced 
into buying up stocks and bonds without end in order to avoid collapse, then we 
have a form of communism – if you consider things such as the Fed to be part of 
the government.

Second,  suppose automation does give us mass production of quality goods at 
very low prices?  If scarcity has always been the obstacle in socialist 
systems, then this might overcome it.  Leaders in China may believe this to be 
true – and time will tell if they are correct.

From: Daniel Rocha [mailto:danieldi...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2017 5:57 AM
To: John Milstone 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Robots to replace writers.

I guess you are being ultra left here. The guy is showing will to learn and you 
are kind of snubbing him.

2017-10-13 3:29 GMT-03:00 Che 
>:


This is just (yawn) one more fake 'post-marxist' analysis (of which there has 
been plenty: 'Post Modernism' being the exemplar of this genre). Dismissing the 
importance of those CENTRAL materialist concepts -- the Means and Mode of 
Production -- is a dead giveaway that this is just one more 
quasi-/pseudo-'scientific' analysis. With a suspect political-economic -- no 
doubt petit-bourgeois liberal -- agenda behind it, of course.






--
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

RE: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form ofLENR?

[Chris Zell]

Unfortunately this leaves you blind to scams by experts Rossi, Papp, Mills and 
Mayer.

I'm not sure that Papp and Meyer were complete scams. Papp in particular, 
seemed to have something.  The Feynman incident suggests to me that there was 
something real about his claims.

Beyond that, I've never read a credible explanation for what Moray was able to 
demonstrate.

RE: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form ofLENR?

[Chris Zell]

The USA is the only country on earth in which political murders are always done 
by lone gunmen unrelated to any conspiracy.

If you can't accept conspiracies, then think about stigmergy and how it shapes 
energy and foreign policy.

From: Nigel Dyer [mailto:l...@thedyers.org.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 7:01 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form 
ofLENR?


I think the appropriate advice is almost 2000 years old.  We need to be as wise 
as serpents and as innocent as doves. Not one, or the other, but both.



Nigel

On 26/09/2017 11:48, Brian Ahern wrote:

If you believe in MiB, then it is axiomatic that you believe in UFO 
conspiracies as well.



Unfortunately this leaves you blind to scams by experts Rossi, Papp, Mills and 
Mayer.


From: Che 
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 10:17 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form 
ofLENR?



On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Brian Ahern 
> wrote:
>
> LeClair hides behind the conspiracy curtain. "He can't do any demos or the 
> Men in Black will get him."

RE: [Vo]:guaranteed pay

[Chris Zell]

http://nypost.com/2015/03/25/us-stock-market-is-just-way-too-riggin-easy/

This sort of thing is happening all over the world, not just Japan.  Central 
banks stimulating their economies by buying up bonds and stocks.

If you think of these banks as part of their respective governments ( if not 
THE government), then the trend is towards communism by default.  Right now, 
the Fed is talking about downsizing their assets purchased thru stimulating the 
economy – while many experts believe that’s a pipe dream.  In fact, it may be 
the only thing preventing collapse.

In addition, low interest rates and mergers have greatly reduced the number of 
publicly traded companies in the US.  So, another trend that may accelerate the 
default conversion of whole economies towards communism ( like it or not) as 
there are fewer stocks to buy up.

RE: [Vo]:The Kerr effect

[Chris Zell]

And somehow, for reasons I cannot find, magnets do not behave as gyroscopes 
even though the fields are caused by spin.

From: Brian Ahern [mailto:ahern_br...@msn.com]
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2017 1:44 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Kerr effect


Can anyone describe how this applies to the Manelas billet. It is ferromagnetic 
and highly resistive. Here is what I have learned from my decade accompanying 
Keith Johnson (MIT prof. retired 1997)



1.Magnetism arise from the alignment of spins.



2.The spin is quantized and the electrons are in orbitals that can be predicted.









.

RE: [Vo]:12 years from now

[Chris Zell]

What Quantum Computers do is solve optimization problems based on Big data that 
is not organized or sequenced such as... find the cure to cancer from a million 
experiments worth of data.

I recall a Japanese study from about 30 years ago that produced dramatic 
results in tumors using a seaweed extract.  There are surprising results from 
dandelion root right now. And Teva stopped making Vermox when it became clear 
that it might be a cheap treatment for tumors.  I don’t think quantum computers 
are the obstacle.

RE: [Vo]:12 years from now

[Chris Zell]

Who among you would have expected that after the Fleischmann- Pons results ( 
1989) that we would be in 2017 without acceptance or a saleable product?

Much the same goes for a cure for cancer – or aging – or free energy generally. 
 Where some of you see rapid progress, I see stagnation and a global 
civilization in desperate need of a Deus Ex Machina.   Engineering is nice but 
exploits what science discovers – and if little emerges that would dramatically 
change human hopes,  what then?

RE: [Vo]:N.Y. Times report on corruption in academic science

[Chris Zell]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-09/it-took-4-new-debt-create-1-gdp

Wrong.

RE: [Vo]:N.Y. Times report on corruption in academic science

[Chris Zell]

Uh… you changed the subject from legal irresponsibility of the elected over to 
your OCD tech of driverless cars.

I wonder where a majority of the US public – that is currently reported as 
being unable to come up with a sudden $500 check – will get the money for these 
pipedreams. And then we have the CBO projections that all tax dollars beyond 
debt payment and entitlements will vanish in about 7 years.  I also understand 
that this ‘tapped out’ condition goes all the way up people making 75K a year.

Oh, they have to raise the debt limit again in 5 days – after Obama pretty much 
doubled it.  It is this acceleration towards collapse that screams out for 
simplicity and honesty – in conflict with elite fantasies and excuses for legal 
complexities.  My vindication is reality, day by day, as dams collapse,  
pension funds dry up,  refugees flee wars the US created and political division 
paralyzes a nation.

And that’s corruption.

RE: [Vo]:N.Y. Times report on corruption in academic science

[Chris Zell]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/06/25/lets-recall-why-the-affordable-care-act-is-so-messed-up/?utm_term=.b1eb6dab705b



From the liberal Washington Post.  Most didn’t bother to read it or much of it 
and the results were typical.  GM and the US government are excellent examples 
of bloated, corrupt and ineffective governance – which is largely why one was 
bailed out and the other piles up unpayable debt.

Funny how a nation can be sustained for 200+ years with a straight forward 
document such as the Constitution but cannot simplify or down size because of 
complexity as an excuse. Impenetrable legal language is a product of corruption 
itself, designed to maintain a legal class and confuse others.   Hence, 
waterboarding that isn’t torture ( enhanced interrogation).

The Constitution was written in a way that ordinary people could mostly 
understand and cherish as including sacred rights. Your ‘trust the elites’ is 
already headed to the dustbin of history – as trust is not earned and violated 
daily in the name of complexity. Tick tock..

RE: [Vo]:N.Y. Times report on corruption in academic science

[Chris Zell]

Your daughter? Interesting but irrelevant.

It is an elected representative that has the moral responsibility to READ every 
bill they pass – and NOT anyone else.  If the matter was so well known and 
vouched for then why did Pelosi say ‘vote for it to find out what’s in it”?  
Clearly, many didn’t know – and that’s corruption.

My former Congressman told me that not only do they not read bills but those 
responsible for tax legislation can’t do their own tax returns. Former Senator 
Moynihan was ridiculed many years ago for trying to make this reading 
mandatory, as it should be.

A few years back, Rhode Island accidentally legalized prostitution after a 
court case exposed errors in what their state assembly passed. One 
representative admitted no one had bothered to read or properly analyze the 
bill.  From my own experience, I know highly placed lawyers make tragic 
mistakes while daydreaming about their next vacation or mistresses.  If a bill 
is too long, then chop it up.

And finally, it is this sloppy, careless lack of attention to responsibility 
that has made decent healthcare unaffordable – by the whole medical and 
political system.  Consider the abomination of TV commercials for the cancer 
drug Optivo – which may cost 250K for a full treatment and offer only a few 
months of survival.  A patient cured is a customer lost.  Tweaking ACA isn’t 
nearly enough.

[Vo]:RE: [Vo]:​OT: Do Scientists Lose Credibility When They Become Political?

[Chris Zell]

Perhaps no one reasons that they are becoming political because their research 
has become so futile and stagnant.   No cure for cancer, no cure for aging, no 
free energy, no colonies on Mars, ……

From: H LV [mailto:hveeder...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 8:40 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:​OT: Do Scientists Lose Credibility When They Become Political?

​​
Do Scientists Lose Credibility When They Become Political?

A new study suggests that, contrary to common fears, the answer is no.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/02/when-scientists-become-advocates-do-they-lose-credibility/518157/

RE: [Vo]:N.Y. Times report on corruption in academic science

[Chris Zell]

The greatest threat to the American way of life might be that things aren’t 
considered corrupt if they are legal.  Thus, we have ads for prescription drugs 
on TV and Congress commonly doesn’t read bills before passage.

Currently, there may be some investigation about dandelion root extract’s 
effect on cancer (forms of leukemia in particular).  We can rest assured the 
FDA and drug companies will find a way to obscure or suppress any positive 
results.

RE: [Vo]:DESCRIBING THE MANELAS Phenomenon

[Chris Zell]

I dunno about equivalence between a battery and a capacitor.  Correa (PAGD 
device) argued vigorously that he was forced to use batteries for practical 
reasons. He would exchange HV battery packs between input and output over and 
over again while rebuilding charge.

RE: [Vo]:DESCRIBING THE MANELAS Phenomenon

[Chris Zell]

I recall that Sweet described an incident in which the device went out of 
control into sort of a whooshing tornado before it was shut down.

This is way – out – there but has anyone ever heard of a strange story ( from 
Steven Mark) in which a TV set had its deflection coil circuit go out of 
control and destroy everything nearby?

RE: [Vo]:DESCRIBING THE MANELAS Phenomenon

[Chris Zell]

The MEG (Bearden) attempts this switching of flux and has not been demonstrated 
to be overunity, as far as I know. Probably just measurement errors from 
apparent vs real power.   I think the way forward would be to examine the 
peculiar shape or form of the engineered permanent magnetic field and think 
about how that relates to electron spin/orbits.

Gut feeling is that some sort of gyroscopic precession is involved….

RE: [Vo]:DESCRIBING THE MANELAS Phenomenon

[Chris Zell]

If Manela followed Sweet’s thinking, what inspired Sweet in the first place?  
How did he arrive at this oddly splayed out magnetic field?

Did he visualize a particular shape from a personal theory?  Or was there 
simply a series of empirical findings that led to the result?
I understand he was trying to shake a magnetic field – perhaps because of some 
observed anomaly. I’m curious as to the thought process.

RE: [Vo]:DESCRIBING THE MANELAS Phenomenon

[Chris Zell]

I am compelled to put this out there, even if it seems speculative and 
unpopular:

http://www.synchronizeduniverse.com/IUFO%20OUTLINE%20v23.pdf

There is something about spin and energy that is unrecognized.  If you read 
information by Kanarev, Linevich, and Vialle , it follows this theme.  Somehow 
mass is being manipulated such that an object can be accelerated for less 
energy cost than is thought.  I understand, for example, that the Aspden effect 
was replicated by researchers in eastern Europe.  These effects could also be 
the cause behind outrageous claims by Schauberger, Searl and Clem.   

So, the Sweet device also showed weight loss?  Yes, that would follow the 
pattern here.

-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] 
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 5:29 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:DESCRIBING THE MANELAS Phenomenon

Whenever purported "free energy" phenomena turn up with no apparent source of 
excess energy, there are a limited number of candidates which seem to rear 
their ugly heads.

This only applies to LENR in the absence of real nuclear energy, but the 
nucleus can be part of a combined MO. In rough order of scientific validity and 
usefulness, these candidates for the source of gain are:

1) ZPE (aether, raumenergie, dynamical Casimir effect, space energy, vacuum 
energy, quantum energy, Hotson epo field, quantum foam, etc)
2) CMB cosmic microwave background (3K-CMB)
2) neutrinos
4) Schumann resonance
5) Fair weather field
6) Magnetic field of earth
7) Ambient heat (plus deep heat sink)
8) Below absolute zero (deeper heat sink)
9) Anti-gravity effect

There are more but they tend to be different wording or combinations of the 
above ... and even more incredulous. Many combinations are possible.

The main reason for bringing this up is that recently CMB has been estimated to 
be slightly more robust than once thought and with new ways to couple to it. 
The CMB is probably a subset of ZPE but the energy density of space in terms of 
the microwave-only spectrum is the equivalent of 0.261 eV per cubic cm, though 
the actual temperature of
2.7 K is much less than that would indicate - and the peak of the spectrum is 
at a frequency of 160.4 GHz. ZPE as a whole may be more robust, but CMB is 
adequate for many uses.

The peak intensity of the background is about... ta ad.. a whopping 385 MJy/Sr 
(that's MegaJanskys per Steradian (I kid you not) which is a candidate for the 
oddest metric in all of free energy, maybe all of physics ... along with 
furlongs per fortnight).

At any rate, if one could invent the way to couple to CMB easily, it would be 
possible to see an effective temperature equivalent in an excellent range for 
thermionics, for instance. The ~2 mm wavelength is interesting too. There have 
been fringe reports of anomalies with 13 gauge wire but anything with the 
number 13 is going to bring out the worst ...

RE: [Vo]:DESCRIBING THE MANELAS Phenomenon

[Chris Zell]

Anyone who manages to pull net energy from ambient and latent heat has 
encountered heresy (gasp !)

RE: [Vo]:DESCRIBING THE MANELAS Phenomenon

[Chris Zell]

http://www.rexresearch.com/sweet3/sweet3.htm

3 or 4 entries at Rex describe the Sweet device and it sounds very much alike…… 
orthogonal coils and all.  He did claim that strontium ferrite was unsuitable 
(!!?) and barium ferrite is preferred.

From: Bob Higgins [mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 3:23 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:DESCRIBING THE MANELAS Phenomenon

Brian,
You previously said that the strontium ferrite block was 4" x 6" x 1".  Can you 
explain how the 3 coils are wound to produce a "north pole" at each of the 4 
corners with a common center south pole in the center?  Are 2 of the coils 
wrapped around the block like wrapping a box with ribbon in a plus?  Then is 
the third coil wrapped around the 1" wide circumference?
A diagram would be great.

Bob

On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 1:08 PM, Brian Ahern 
> wrote:

I have the original billet and all three axises are wound with the suggested 
length of wire (170 feet).

I welcome any suggestions and directions.

I am not skilled with AC circuits, but I have significant experience with high 
voltage pulsed systems.

I will take it to my grave that the Manelas system worked and that we were not 
fooled. I just do not know how to proceed

RE: [Vo]:DESCRIBING THE MANELAS Phenomenon

[Chris Zell]

I swear to God if I ever stumble into anything overunity, I’m gonna rectify the 
bejeezus out of it.  Pure DC in and pure DC out, none of this apparent power 
crap.

Magnetic amps bring up Bearden’s MEG – which I don’t think ever worked. I 
suspect its output was apparent and not real, as above.

RE: [Vo]:DESCRIBING THE MANELAS Phenomenon

[Chris Zell]

As a huge brainstorming leap here ( and I confess I may not fully 
understand concepts such as a Bose Condensate, for example)

Is it possible that such devices are an imitation of something in the quantum 
world but momentarily existing in macro reality?  A sort of 'full scale' atom 
or spinning particle that interacts with zpe exchange?But that, too would 
not be orthodoxy as to conservation.

The orthogonal coils sound straight out of the Sweet device.

RE: [Vo]:DESCRIBING THE MANELAS Phenomenon

[Chris Zell]

I think we are approaching the critical point here -and if there is no 
remainder of a transmuted element or production of particles in use, then what 
are we left with?  Sounds like Sherlock Holmes observation about ‘whatever 
remains, however incredible, must be true”.

I would think that the lifespan of a magnetized structure with opposing fields 
forced on it would be limited ( if all south poles met in the middle).



From what Brian Ahern said, the magnetic billet he used ran out of energy after 
two years. If this depletion is the case, then there must be some consumable 
involved in the power production process. It is my belief that there is a 
single cause for LENR. This cause involves transmutation and the resultant 
transfer of energy from the nucleus during the LENR reaction.

The whole cloth production of electrons in these various LENR systems must be 
caused by the release of mesons from the nucleus.

Brian Ahern should test a small piece of this magnetic billet to see if he can 
detect any transmutation that has occurred in it.

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 3:53 PM, Chris Zell 
<chrisz...@wetmtv.com<mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com>> wrote:
When all is said and done, wouldn’t it be true that there is a choice as to 
considering the primary source of these energies?  Either you are removing 
energy primarily from nuclei – and thereby transmuting them into something else 
(which preserves energy conservation/TD)

Or you’re removing energy primarily from electron spins or orbits – without 
transmutation of the nuclei – and that contradicts conservation/TD.
I don’t see how this gain would be otherwise – and if derived from spin or 
orbit, then non-rotary energy as jitter/ZPE would be eliminated as the source.  
An exception to TD and such if therein………

RE: [Vo]:DESCRIBING THE MANELAS Phenomenon

[Chris Zell]

When all is said and done, wouldn’t it be true that there is a choice as to 
considering the primary source of these energies?  Either you are removing 
energy primarily from nuclei – and thereby transmuting them into something else 
(which preserves energy conservation/TD)

Or you’re removing energy primarily from electron spins or orbits – without 
transmutation of the nuclei – and that contradicts conservation/TD.
I don’t see how this gain would be otherwise – and if derived from spin or 
orbit, then non-rotary energy as jitter/ZPE would be eliminated as the source.  
An exception to TD and such if therein………

RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

[Chris Zell]

Heavens to Occam’s Razor…… you suggest two surprising, unknown effects at the 
root of this…..  If a nuclear aspect is added, I would think that it goes back 
to a withdrawal of motion or its rectification somehow.   We would tap latent 
heat motion and also tap electron spin motion.  I really would enjoy 
visualizing this as movement but that’s just my leaning.

From: bobcook39...@gmail.com [mailto:bobcook39...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 5:20 PM
To: Chris Zell <chrisz...@wetmtv.com>; vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

If the nuclear potential energy source is tapped, then that would greatly 
supplement the latent heat which is the phonic energy you note.

Bob

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Chris Zell<mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com>
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 11:55 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE



From: bobcook39...@gmail.com<mailto:bobcook39...@gmail.com> 
[mailto:bobcook39...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 1:56 PM
To: Chris Zell <chrisz...@wetmtv.com<mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com>>; 
vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

Chris-

I have understood that phonons are “virtual” particles that represent a 
localized energy in a crystal lattice made up of kinetic energy and potential 
energy in a resonant stable dynamic state.  It is primarily thought to be an 
electric field that couples the nuclei and electrons in the lattice—primarily 
the valence electrons.  The nuclei oscillate around some mid position in the 
lattice and valence  electrons change their orbital spin states reflecting the 
motion of the nuclei.

What confuses me about that explanation is the energy of the ‘jitter’ of the 
nuclei and heat.  Are they the same thing or somehow different? If the same,  
then the excess energy claimed can only be no more greater than some part of 
the latent heat of the slab/object – and not some earthshaking vortex swirl as 
reported by Sweet.

RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

[Chris Zell]

(thinking this through…….)   If you attribute the excess energy to a withdrawal 
from electron spins….. does conservation of energy apply? I recall an article 
in Infinite Energy magazine in which physics, as taught, seems to do a 
‘workaround’ as to spin energy when calculations are done – causing a young 
physics student to abandon the class after he observed this (!!).

RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

[Chris Zell]

Has Cyril Smith or anybody ever replicated the Coler devices?  I’ve never heard 
of that happening – and if the Stromzeuger device could be replicated, we’d all 
be in fat city.

RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

[Chris Zell]

From: bobcook39...@gmail.com [mailto:bobcook39...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 1:56 PM
To: Chris Zell <chrisz...@wetmtv.com>; vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

Chris-

I have understood that phonons are “virtual” particles that represent a 
localized energy in a crystal lattice made up of kinetic energy and potential 
energy in a resonant stable dynamic state.  It is primarily thought to be an 
electric field that couples the nuclei and electrons in the lattice—primarily 
the valence electrons.  The nuclei oscillate around some mid position in the 
lattice and valence  electrons change their orbital spin states reflecting the 
motion of the nuclei.

What confuses me about that explanation is the energy of the ‘jitter’ of the 
nuclei and heat.  Are they the same thing or somehow different? If the same,  
then the excess energy claimed can only be no more greater than some part of 
the latent heat of the slab/object – and not some earthshaking vortex swirl as 
reported by Sweet.

RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

[Chris Zell]

That is sad.   I recall that what you are describing sounds exactly the same as 
the situation with the Correa device.  The best he do was to swap battery packs 
again and again to show gain – but it seems that as soon as you introduce a 
battery pack into any such claim, disbelief arises.



From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 1:10 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

Unfortunately, the bullet-proof case for net energy gain was not made at the 
time. There is apparent gain, but not proved gain.

Brian Ahern ran the test for many days using a very high capacity battery 
array. At the end of the test, the battery pack appeared to be fully charged, 
but there's the rub "appeared to be".

LIPO batteries are well-known to present a pseudo voltage which is higher than 
the average voltage, especially in a case where HV BMEF is present ... and thus 
a large pack which seems fully charged could in fact have lost a great deal of 
charge. That is because measuring the voltage is the easy way to determine 
state of charge, and when it is known that pseudo-voltage happens, the results 
cannot be relied on.

Bottom line. Although we want want to think the battery pack was fully charged, 
the deal was not closed and doubt remains.

RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

[Chris Zell]

From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 12:14 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE


Another overlapping mechanism to add into the mix for the Manelas effect, which 
is probably a "Maxwell's Demon" in its own special way is related to the 
organizing mechanism mentioned by Chris... and it has a name: Doppler cooling

Sounds kinda red shifty to me.   Not sure how we extract energy from it.

RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

[Chris Zell]

I do recall Wingate Lambertson  - a scientist/expert on cermet products.  Odd 
semi-ceramic things he called "E-dams" that generated excess energy.  I recall 
that he passed away before it could be fully developed.   It all sounded like 
phonon derived energy.

From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 11:14 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE



 Chris Zell wrote:

If I google "phonons as an energy source", nothing in particular comes up.  If 
we are identifying them as the likely source of excess energy within a 
barium/strontium ferrite structure,  I would think that someone somewhere has 
thought about cohering them into useful energy.


But if you google "Microelectromechanical systems" you will get 750,000 hits.

RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

[Chris Zell]

http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Lattice+Vibrations

If a crystal lattice has all of its atoms/molecules vibrating at the same 
frequency (or harmonic),  then I assume the reason why we don’t observe 
crystals radiating is because it’s in all directions and cancels itself out in 
whatever ‘antenna’ is used.

I still wonder how the gross/macro motion of magnetic fields within a slab that 
measures in inches withdraws energy from something vibrating at the molecular 
range – if not quantum level.

I assume also that the only reason we can grow crystals that easily match the 
form of a single atom/molecule is because the emerging form ‘acts as one’.  You 
start with a tiny cube of table salt and end up with a big one because it 
vibrates and attracts equally in all directions. Otherwise, we couldn’t expect 
that cubes randomly tossed into a corner would end up as a huge cube most of 
the time.

Sorry, if I’m a bit behind you guys, I’m just trying to reason and visualize 
this stuff…..

From: bobcook39...@gmail.com [mailto:bobcook39...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 11:26 AM
To: Chris Zell <chrisz...@wetmtv.com>; vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

Brian—

I also thought there might be a connection between the Manelas device and 
Dragone theory.  Again the possibility of reversal of the 2nd Law of T/D is 
very interesting.

One thought I had was the orbital spin quanta are involved since in a coherent 
system they are limited to changing one quanta at a time IMHO.  This 
restriction may somehow effect the reversal noted above to create more order in 
the crystal structures (grains) weakly coupled in the Manelas device.  Small 
phase changes of the crystals may constitute such reordering that leads to a 
nuclear  transition of greater stability.  The temperature differential is then 
used to make a useful voltage.

Bob Cook

From: Chris Zell<mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com>
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 8:05 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

If I google “phonons as an energy source”, nothing in particular comes up.  If 
we are identifying them as the likely source of excess energy within a 
barium/strontium ferrite structure,  I would think that someone somewhere has 
thought about cohering them into useful energy.  So, we create a particular 
motion that gives us a gain from ‘straightening out’ random motion..?

From: Brian Ahern [mailto:ahern_br...@msn.com]
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 10:06 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE



I am intrigued by the Dragone stuff. It seems very close to Manelas, which I 
thoroughly tested in2012.

From: Chris Zell <chrisz...@wetmtv.com<mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com>>
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 9:41 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE


http://rexresearch.com/maccanti/maccanti.htm
Giampaolo Maccanti -- alleged free energy 
generator<http://rexresearch.com/maccanti/maccanti.htm>
rexresearch.com
Energia Celeste S.R.L. 17 Seprember 1998 Abstract--- Electromagnetic device 
(100), particularly to be used as a generator, for example of ...





As Dragone seems to be talking about an effect which appears during attraction, 
I wonder about the overunity claims of the Maccanti device.



From: bobcook39...@gmail.com<mailto:bobcook39...@gmail.com> 
[mailto:bobcook39...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 9:35 AM
To: MJ <feli...@gmail.com<mailto:feli...@gmail.com>>; 
vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE



Dragone discussed the idea of decreasing entropy (increasing order of matter) 
as a an effect of the magnetic device he described.  That may include better 
nuclear order.



Another interesting item is the assessment of the Dragone document.



http://www.intalek.com/Index/Projects/Research/DragoneAnalysis.pdf
Analysis of Leon Dragone's paper by William 
Alek<http://www.intalek.com/Index/Projects/Research/DragoneAnalysis.pdf>
www.intalek.com<http://www.intalek.com>
Analysis of Leon Dragone's, "Energetics of Ferromagnetism" By William S. Alek 
INTALEK, INC. November 2002 Version 5a





Bob Cook

From: MJ<mailto:feli...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 3:25 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE



Leon Dragone also observed the cooling effect related to magnetism:


http://exvacuo.free.fr/div/Sciences/Dossiers/EM/Leon%20Dragone%20-%20Energetics%20of%20Ferromagnetism.pdf

Mark Jordan


On 16-Feb-17 19:42, David Roberson wrote:

When a hot object radiates IR into space the t

RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

[Chris Zell]

If I google "phonons as an energy source", nothing in particular comes up.  If 
we are identifying them as the likely source of excess energy within a 
barium/strontium ferrite structure,  I would think that someone somewhere has 
thought about cohering them into useful energy.  So, we create a particular 
motion that gives us a gain from 'straightening out' random 
motion..?

From: Brian Ahern [mailto:ahern_br...@msn.com]
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 10:06 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE



I am intrigued by the Dragone stuff. It seems very close to Manelas, which I 
thoroughly tested in2012.
____
From: Chris Zell <chrisz...@wetmtv.com<mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com>>
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 9:41 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE


http://rexresearch.com/maccanti/maccanti.htm
Giampaolo Maccanti -- alleged free energy 
generator<http://rexresearch.com/maccanti/maccanti.htm>
rexresearch.com
Energia Celeste S.R.L. 17 Seprember 1998 Abstract--- Electromagnetic device 
(100), particularly to be used as a generator, for example of ...





As Dragone seems to be talking about an effect which appears during attraction, 
I wonder about the overunity claims of the Maccanti device.



From: bobcook39...@gmail.com<mailto:bobcook39...@gmail.com> 
[mailto:bobcook39...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 9:35 AM
To: MJ <feli...@gmail.com<mailto:feli...@gmail.com>>; 
vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE



Dragone discussed the idea of decreasing entropy (increasing order of matter) 
as a an effect of the magnetic device he described.  That may include better 
nuclear order.



Another interesting item is the assessment of the Dragone document.



http://www.intalek.com/Index/Projects/Research/DragoneAnalysis.pdf
Analysis of Leon Dragone's paper by William 
Alek<http://www.intalek.com/Index/Projects/Research/DragoneAnalysis.pdf>
www.intalek.com<http://www.intalek.com>
Analysis of Leon Dragone's, "Energetics of Ferromagnetism" By William S. Alek 
INTALEK, INC. November 2002 Version 5a





Bob Cook

From: MJ<mailto:feli...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 3:25 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE



Leon Dragone also observed the cooling effect related to magnetism:


http://exvacuo.free.fr/div/Sciences/Dossiers/EM/Leon%20Dragone%20-%20Energetics%20of%20Ferromagnetism.pdf

Mark Jordan


On 16-Feb-17 19:42, David Roberson wrote:

When a hot object radiates IR into space the temperature also drops.  Perhaps 
there is a low frequency form of magnetic coupling that can be encouraged to do 
a similar thing.  According to my observations there seems to be a method 
available to convert energy among the different forms under most conditions.

Dave







-Original Message-
From: Chris Zell <chrisz...@wetmtv.com><mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com>
To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com><mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Thu, Feb 16, 2017 3:02 pm
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

If a specially shaped magnetic field can drop the temperature of an apparatus, 
shouldn't we conclude that random motion (heat) is somehow being converted into 
directed, useful motion?  That Maxwell's Demon has been found?

RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

[Chris Zell]

http://rexresearch.com/maccanti/maccanti.htm

As Dragone seems to be talking about an effect which appears during attraction, 
I wonder about the overunity claims of the Maccanti device.

From: bobcook39...@gmail.com [mailto:bobcook39...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 9:35 AM
To: MJ <feli...@gmail.com>; vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

Dragone discussed the idea of decreasing entropy (increasing order of matter) 
as a an effect of the magnetic device he described.  That may include better 
nuclear order.

Another interesting item is the assessment of the Dragone document.

http://www.intalek.com/Index/Projects/Research/DragoneAnalysis.pdf

Bob Cook
From: MJ<mailto:feli...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 3:25 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE


Leon Dragone also observed the cooling effect related to magnetism:


http://exvacuo.free.fr/div/Sciences/Dossiers/EM/Leon%20Dragone%20-%20Energetics%20of%20Ferromagnetism.pdf

Mark Jordan


On 16-Feb-17 19:42, David Roberson wrote:
When a hot object radiates IR into space the temperature also drops.  Perhaps 
there is a low frequency form of magnetic coupling that can be encouraged to do 
a similar thing.  According to my observations there seems to be a method 
available to convert energy among the different forms under most conditions.

Dave



-Original Message-
From: Chris Zell <chrisz...@wetmtv.com><mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com>
To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com><mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Thu, Feb 16, 2017 3:02 pm
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE
If a specially shaped magnetic field can drop the temperature of an apparatus, 
shouldn’t we conclude that random motion (heat) is somehow being converted into 
directed, useful motion?  That Maxwell’s Demon has been found?

RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

[Chris Zell]

So the restoring force may be a quantum mechanical process that works under 
subtle conditions.



Um. I am forced to wonder if this explanation is similar to skeptic Victor 
Stenger's rejection of quantum entanglement - when he suggested "de-coherence" 
as the alternative.   An elegant way to avoid saying, 'Well, that's just how it 
is " ( ?)  Ultimately, the laws of the universe are just arbitrary and we can't 
have endless causes extending downward  any more than an infinite series of 
turtles holding up the earth.. right?



If we go down that route, then I guess we just need hard proof of an effect 
verified and the usual reductionism stops at the quantum 'gate'.



I do puzzle at the notion of opposing magnetic fields being 'bounced'  (all 
North at the edges but all South in the middle ??).  One would visualize a 
collection of springs - in which you stretch them and let them oscillate to a 
stop with no net gain.  Something more is needed. And if cold is created, then 
something is stilled - or moving more slowly

RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

[Chris Zell]

I am left wondering if the excess (free) energy in these Manela/Sweet devices 
is derived from heat – or if the production of cold is just a side effect. I 
suppose if huge outputs were obtained from the Sweet device, then the expulsion 
of heat is simply coincidence.

From: David Roberson [mailto:dlrober...@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 4:42 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

When a hot object radiates IR into space the temperature also drops.  Perhaps 
there is a low frequency form of magnetic coupling that can be encouraged to do 
a similar thing.  According to my observations there seems to be a method 
available to convert energy among the different forms under most conditions.

Dave



-Original Message-
From: Chris Zell <chrisz...@wetmtv.com<mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com>>
To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>>
Sent: Thu, Feb 16, 2017 3:02 pm
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE
If a specially shaped magnetic field can drop the temperature of an apparatus, 
shouldn’t we conclude that random motion (heat) is somehow being converted into 
directed, useful motion?  That Maxwell’s Demon has been found?

RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

[Chris Zell]

If a specially shaped magnetic field can drop the temperature of an apparatus, 
shouldn’t we conclude that random motion (heat) is somehow being converted into 
directed, useful motion?  That Maxwell’s Demon has been found?

RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

[Chris Zell]

I am forced to think about energy as motion rather than the ‘particle du jour’ 
thinking that dominates.  Is it possible to think of unpaired electron orbits 
as somehow re-routed so as to create a current flow?  I am also puzzled by the 
notion that magnetism is centrifugal force in some way, although when we pick 
up a magnet it does not behave as a gyroscope.
Maybe if we could figure out the ‘motion’ aspect of the problem, we could 
understand where the excess comes from….
I also wonder about patent applications made prior to a patent being 
classified…..or do they get suppressed as well? I recall that Ken Shoulders had 
a legal way around having his patents suppressed.


From: Chris Zell<mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com>
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 9:12 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>

Subject: RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

The description of the Manelas device is extremely similar to the Sweet device. 
  And like that device, there seems to be a mystery about how an oddly 
magnetized slab worked – or how it was created. In Sweet’s case, it was barium 
ferrite, I recall.

From: bobcook39...@gmail.com<mailto:bobcook39...@gmail.com> 
[mailto:bobcook39...@gmail.com<mailto:bobcook39...@gmail.com>]
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 12:07 PM
To: Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com<mailto:janap...@gmail.com>>; vortex-l 
<vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>>
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

Brian—

The cooling effect is unexpected.  It seems that it may be a reversal of the 
2nd Law of T/D—a decrease in entropy instead of an increase.

Do you know what the thermal conductivity is?  I would guess it may be very 
low, similar to the electrical conductivity.

Also is there an open circuit voltage produced?  I so where are the  electrodes 
attached—positive and negative?

It may be that the differential magnetic field inside to the outside acts to 
change the ordering and the entropy accordingly—inside to the surface.  The 
magnetic field may cause in effect a phase change—a change to more order.  It 
may happen only at a certain magnetic strength—B field that is.  And there may 
be a coupling to the Earth’s magnetic field for extraction of energy,  
consistent with energy conservation.

The differential temperature—inside to outside at the surface---maybe a thermal 
magnetic voltage source analogous to the well known thermal electric effect.

Bob Cook

From: Axil Axil<mailto:janap...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 5:20 PM
To: vortex-l<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

More...

The Mandela bullot is flat and square with a large surface area. This flat 
topology with a large surface area might permit a maximum of magnetic dipoles 
to form on the surface of the Mandela bullot. I would like to know what type of 
gas filled the black box...is it protium or deuterium or air?

On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 8:09 PM, Axil Axil 
<janap...@gmail.com<mailto:janap...@gmail.com>> wrote:
[Inline image 1]
The Manelas Device functional diagram



On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 7:58 PM, Axil Axil 
<janap...@gmail.com<mailto:janap...@gmail.com>> wrote:
It might be that the pulsed current of the 137 kilohertz square wave input 
current produces a magnetic dipole with a large instantaneous power factor 
because the current is produced by a square wave like the Brillouin method. The 
24 volt constant current also produces heat and the strontium ferrite magnet is 
heat resistant. The maximum operating temperature of the magnet is 250C and the 
Curie temperature is 450C, With that high temperature operating capacity, 
coherent magnetically based Surface plasmon polaritons may form under the 
influence of the magnetic dipole motion that localize around the magnetic field 
lines as heat photons become entangled with electrons dipoles.

If these magnetic polaritons become coherent, these polaritons may produce 
enough magnetic power to destabilize the nuclei of the gas above the surface of 
the magnet inside the Mandela's Device black box.

On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 6:28 PM, Brian Ahern 
<ahern_br...@msn.com<mailto:ahern_br...@msn.com>> wrote:

The Manelas billet is strontium ferrite and is very high electrical 
resistivity. This eliminates eddy currents as a loss mechanism


From: Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com<mailto:janap...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 6:18 PM
To: vortex-l
Subject: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE


"Note my recent comment regarding the Manelas Device reflecting your notice 
about the discovery of time crystals. There may be a connection with the 
magnetic materials used in the device.

Separately, I would note that the design of NAE’s may require a structure which 
allows high magnetic fiel

RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

[Chris Zell]

The description of the Manelas device is extremely similar to the Sweet device. 
  And like that device, there seems to be a mystery about how an oddly 
magnetized slab worked – or how it was created. In Sweet’s case, it was barium 
ferrite, I recall.

From: bobcook39...@gmail.com [mailto:bobcook39...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 12:07 PM
To: Axil Axil ; vortex-l 
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

Brian—

The cooling effect is unexpected.  It seems that it may be a reversal of the 
2nd Law of T/D—a decrease in entropy instead of an increase.

Do you know what the thermal conductivity is?  I would guess it may be very 
low, similar to the electrical conductivity.

Also is there an open circuit voltage produced?  I so where are the  electrodes 
attached—positive and negative?

It may be that the differential magnetic field inside to the outside acts to 
change the ordering and the entropy accordingly—inside to the surface.  The 
magnetic field may cause in effect a phase change—a change to more order.  It 
may happen only at a certain magnetic strength—B field that is.  And there may 
be a coupling to the Earth’s magnetic field for extraction of energy,  
consistent with energy conservation.

The differential temperature—inside to outside at the surface---maybe a thermal 
magnetic voltage source analogous to the well known thermal electric effect.

Bob Cook

From: Axil Axil
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 5:20 PM
To: vortex-l
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

More...

The Mandela bullot is flat and square with a large surface area. This flat 
topology with a large surface area might permit a maximum of magnetic dipoles 
to form on the surface of the Mandela bullot. I would like to know what type of 
gas filled the black box...is it protium or deuterium or air?

On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 8:09 PM, Axil Axil 
> wrote:
[Inline image 1]
The Manelas Device functional diagram



On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 7:58 PM, Axil Axil 
> wrote:
It might be that the pulsed current of the 137 kilohertz square wave input 
current produces a magnetic dipole with a large instantaneous power factor 
because the current is produced by a square wave like the Brillouin method. The 
24 volt constant current also produces heat and the strontium ferrite magnet is 
heat resistant. The maximum operating temperature of the magnet is 250C and the 
Curie temperature is 450C, With that high temperature operating capacity, 
coherent magnetically based Surface plasmon polaritons may form under the 
influence of the magnetic dipole motion that localize around the magnetic field 
lines as heat photons become entangled with electrons dipoles.

If these magnetic polaritons become coherent, these polaritons may produce 
enough magnetic power to destabilize the nuclei of the gas above the surface of 
the magnet inside the Mandela's Device black box.

On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 6:28 PM, Brian Ahern 
> wrote:

The Manelas billet is strontium ferrite and is very high electrical 
resistivity. This eliminates eddy currents as a loss mechanism


From: Axil Axil >
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 6:18 PM
To: vortex-l
Subject: [Vo]:Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE

Regarding what BOB COOK THINKS ABOUT THE NAE


"Note my recent comment regarding the Manelas Device reflecting your notice 
about the discovery of time crystals. There may be a connection with the 
magnetic materials used in the device.

Separately, I would note that the design of NAE’s may require a structure which 
allows high magnetic fields (10^12 –10^16 Tesla.) Structures that are 1 or 2 
dimensional may be the key, with the 1-D NAE supporting LENR+, because it 
causes the reaction in a confined space and maintains the 1-D characteristic 
for repeated reactions upon arrival of reactants—H or D or Li or whatever."

There is a branch of physics called "QCD in strong magnetic fields" that has 
conducted workshops on what a strong magnetic fields can do to a nucleus.

http://homepages.uni-regensburg.de/~eng14891/qcdB_workshop/program.shtml
QCD in strong magnetic fields - 
uni-regensburg.de
homepages.uni-regensburg.de
Monday 12 November; 09:00 - 09:40: Berndt Müller: When QCD meets QED: 09:40 - 
10:20: Vladimir Skokov: Magnetic field in HIC and anisotropy of photon 
production




and also by another name "Workshop on Magnetic Fields in Hadron Physics"

http://www.ictp-saifr.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/all-abstracts_logo.pdf
Workshop on Magnetic Fields in Hadron Physics ICTP/SAIFR 

RE: [Vo]:The dark side of dense hydrogen

[Chris Zell]

It is said he had a stroke and awoke in a hospital.

A nurse asked, “Are you the famous Dr.
Edward Teller?”

He said, “No…….I am the infamous Dr. Edward Teller”.

From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2017 11:01 AM
To: Vortex 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:The dark side of dense hydrogen

Edward Teller! For goodness sake.

- Jed