Re: [Vo]:Elevated-temperature excess heat production in a Pd D system in 1991
PeterH, as far I remember the Liaw et al paper is published in the Proceedings of ICCF-2. I have donated my CF library to my friend the journalist Haiko Lietz who lives in Germany, I hope you know him personally. I think the above Proceedings are at him and he can send you a copy. As regarding your assertion that technical problems can be solved- the problem is cost and price- at what price with which efforts. Liaw system was interesting- Pd is anode. PeterG On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 9:44 AM, peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: - Original Nachricht Von: Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com An: vortex-l@eskimo.com Datum: 28.11.2011 06:19 Betreff: Re: [Vo]:Elevated-temperature excess heat production in a Pd D system in 1991 I spoke with Liaw at ICCF-2 Como 1991. The system had very great problems of corrosion. Rule No. 6 of problem solving says: NOT the main desired positive effect, but those secondary negative and/or undesired effects decide in most cases if a solution is implemented. It seems corrosion was so severe that this way was abandoned.. Technical problems are not important, these are almost ever solvable if the reward is high. History has shown this. We are on moon now, and everybody has a mobile phone and we have GPS and Laser. Impossible? So, why dont they publish their findings? Possibly others find a solution. It would be important to have a key experiment that is repeatable and that works. There is an unfortunate mechanism: First they publish success. This is is euphorical accepted by the LENR community and makes the way into their collection of papers. Then they continue their research and find unexpected problems or find errors. They give up. Of course this is not published. This is why there are so many positive results. This is also the mechanism why there are so many positive results about UFO's and unicorns. ;-) It seems most documented LENR successes are of this type: Unfinished stories about an anticipated success that never was tested and confirmed beyond all doubts. Peter Peter *(* http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com/2011/06/super-rule-included-complete-list-o f.html * * * * On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 3:01 AM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: It was in the 1990 paper : - Original Message - Liebert's still around : http://newenergytimes.com/v2/archives/fic/F/F199010.PDF 1990 : EXCESS HEAT USING MOLTEN-SALT ELECTROCHEMICAL CELL By Professors Liaw, Tao, Turner, Liebert As an example shown in the last entry in TABLE I, the power to the heating tape was maintained at about 69.25 W, the cell potential was typically in the range of 2.45 V, and the electrochemical input power was about 1.68 W at 692 mA/cm2 for a total input power of about 70.9W. We would expect 1.68 Wof joule heating to result in a 5.1 °C increase in temperature; however, the temperature increased by 82.4° C, which corresponds to a gain of about 27.1 W, according to the calibration curve. Therefore, a net gain of 25.4Wwas in excess, which results in an excess power gain of 1512 percent, in the range of 627 W/cm3 Pd. -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Elevated-temperature excess heat production in a Pd D system in 1991
- Original Nachricht Von: Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com An: vortex-l@eskimo.com Datum: 28.11.2011 09:15 Betreff: Re: [Vo]:Elevated-temperature excess heat production in a Pd D system in 1991 PeterH, as far I remember the Liaw et al paper is published in the Proceedings of ICCF-2. I have donated my CF library to my friend the journalist Haiko Lietz who lives in Germany, I hope you know him personally. I think the I am not an insider. If I had any possibility to repeat such an experiment I would do it. Unfortunately I have not. Also I have not too much hope for success. Detecting radiation or transmutation is totally beyond my possibilities. Temperature differences are not an irrrefutable proof. Hydrogen adsorption is exothermic and in an hydrogen saturated material there are heatpipe effects. Also thermal conductivity changes with current flow. Also gases leak out or recombine. If there is a lot of corrosion this means there are additional exothermic chemical processes. So, without a long time calorimetric proof, there is nothing proven. above Proceedings are at him and he can send you a copy. As regarding your assertion that technical problems can be solved- the problem is cost and price- at what price with which efforts. Liaw system was interesting- Pd is anode. PeterG On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 9:44 AM, peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: - Original Nachricht Von: Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com An: vortex-l@eskimo.com Datum: 28.11.2011 06:19 Betreff: Re: [Vo]:Elevated-temperature excess heat production in a Pd D system in 1991 I spoke with Liaw at ICCF-2 Como 1991. The system had very great problems of corrosion. Rule No. 6 of problem solving says: NOT the main desired positive effect, but those secondary negative and/or undesired effects decide in most cases if a solution is implemented. It seems corrosion was so severe that this way was abandoned.. Technical problems are not important, these are almost ever solvable if the reward is high. History has shown this. We are on moon now, and everybody has a mobile phone and we have GPS and Laser. Impossible? So, why dont they publish their findings? Possibly others find a solution. It would be important to have a key experiment that is repeatable and that works. There is an unfortunate mechanism: First they publish success. This is is euphorical accepted by the LENR community and makes the way into their collection of papers. Then they continue their research and find unexpected problems or find errors. They give up. Of course this is not published. This is why there are so many positive results. This is also the mechanism why there are so many positive results about UFO's and unicorns. ;-) It seems most documented LENR successes are of this type: Unfinished stories about an anticipated success that never was tested and confirmed beyond all doubts. Peter Peter *(* http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com/2011/06/super-rule-included-complete-list-o f.html * * * * On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 3:01 AM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: It was in the 1990 paper : - Original Message - Liebert's still around : http://newenergytimes.com/v2/archives/fic/F/F199010.PDF 1990 : EXCESS HEAT USING MOLTEN-SALT ELECTROCHEMICAL CELL By Professors Liaw, Tao, Turner, Liebert As an example shown in the last entry in TABLE I, the power to the heating tape was maintained at about 69.25 W, the cell potential was typically in the range of 2.45 V, and the electrochemical input power was about 1.68 W at 692 mA/cm2 for a total input power of about 70.9W. We would expect 1.68 Wof joule heating to result in a 5.1 °C increase in temperature; however, the temperature increased by 82.4° C, which corresponds to a gain of about 27.1 W, according to the calibration curve. Therefore, a net gain of 25.4Wwas in excess, which results in an excess power gain of 1512 percent, in the range of 627 W/cm3 Pd. -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Elevated-temperature excess heat production in a Pd D system in 1991
Alternatively you could ask the main author- he is still active/young: http://www.hnei.hawaii.edu/template2.asp?userID=bliaw He has continued the work, after Pd with Ni but this was also abandoned. PeterG On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 10:34 AM, peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: - Original Nachricht Von: Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com An: vortex-l@eskimo.com Datum: 28.11.2011 09:15 Betreff: Re: [Vo]:Elevated-temperature excess heat production in a Pd D system in 1991 PeterH, as far I remember the Liaw et al paper is published in the Proceedings of ICCF-2. I have donated my CF library to my friend the journalist Haiko Lietz who lives in Germany, I hope you know him personally. I think the I am not an insider. If I had any possibility to repeat such an experiment I would do it. Unfortunately I have not. Also I have not too much hope for success. Detecting radiation or transmutation is totally beyond my possibilities. Temperature differences are not an irrrefutable proof. Hydrogen adsorption is exothermic and in an hydrogen saturated material there are heatpipe effects. Also thermal conductivity changes with current flow. Also gases leak out or recombine. If there is a lot of corrosion this means there are additional exothermic chemical processes. So, without a long time calorimetric proof, there is nothing proven. above Proceedings are at him and he can send you a copy. As regarding your assertion that technical problems can be solved- the problem is cost and price- at what price with which efforts. Liaw system was interesting- Pd is anode. PeterG On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 9:44 AM, peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: - Original Nachricht Von: Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com An: vortex-l@eskimo.com Datum: 28.11.2011 06:19 Betreff: Re: [Vo]:Elevated-temperature excess heat production in a Pd D system in 1991 I spoke with Liaw at ICCF-2 Como 1991. The system had very great problems of corrosion. Rule No. 6 of problem solving says: NOT the main desired positive effect, but those secondary negative and/or undesired effects decide in most cases if a solution is implemented. It seems corrosion was so severe that this way was abandoned.. Technical problems are not important, these are almost ever solvable if the reward is high. History has shown this. We are on moon now, and everybody has a mobile phone and we have GPS and Laser. Impossible? So, why dont they publish their findings? Possibly others find a solution. It would be important to have a key experiment that is repeatable and that works. There is an unfortunate mechanism: First they publish success. This is is euphorical accepted by the LENR community and makes the way into their collection of papers. Then they continue their research and find unexpected problems or find errors. They give up. Of course this is not published. This is why there are so many positive results. This is also the mechanism why there are so many positive results about UFO's and unicorns. ;-) It seems most documented LENR successes are of this type: Unfinished stories about an anticipated success that never was tested and confirmed beyond all doubts. Peter Peter *(* http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com/2011/06/super-rule-included-complete-list-o f.html * * * * On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 3:01 AM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: It was in the 1990 paper : - Original Message - Liebert's still around : http://newenergytimes.com/v2/archives/fic/F/F199010.PDF 1990 : EXCESS HEAT USING MOLTEN-SALT ELECTROCHEMICAL CELL By Professors Liaw, Tao, Turner, Liebert As an example shown in the last entry in TABLE I, the power to the heating tape was maintained at about 69.25 W, the cell potential was typically in the range of 2.45 V, and the electrochemical input power was about 1.68 W at 692 mA/cm2 for a total input power of about 70.9W. We would expect 1.68 Wof joule heating to result in a 5.1 °C increase in temperature; however, the temperature increased by 82.4° C, which corresponds to a gain of about 27.1 W, according to the calibration curve. Therefore, a net gain of 25.4Wwas in excess, which results in an excess power gain of 1512 percent, in the range of 627 W/cm3 Pd. -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Elevated-temperature excess heat production in a Pd D system in 1991
I think, this says all. This guy is a professional electrochemist and without doubt he has 1000fold more possibilities than I. If he gave up, he has doubts himself. If there is a serious chance for success others should try it, who have a laboratory. Patents dont hinder scientific research and experiments in any way. If somebody finds methods to handle the corrosion he could make additional patents. This guy found a lot of corrosion that whas not seen or reported before. This means, he found unexpected chemical sources of energy that possibly invalidate previous results and he has not published it. He is scientist and if he would see a chance for an irrefutable scientific proof he would (and should) do this himself. This is what I think about it. Peter - Original Nachricht Von: Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com An: vortex-l@eskimo.com Datum: 28.11.2011 09:42 Betreff: Re: [Vo]:Elevated-temperature excess heat production in a Pd D system in 1991 Alternatively you could ask the main author- he is still active/young: http://www.hnei.hawaii.edu/template2.asp?userID=bliaw He has continued the work, after Pd with Ni but this was also abandoned. PeterG On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 10:34 AM, peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: It was in the 1990 paper : - Original Message - Liebert's still around : http://newenergytimes.com/v2/archives/fic/F/F199010.PDF 1990 : EXCESS HEAT USING MOLTEN-SALT ELECTROCHEMICAL CELL By Professors Liaw, Tao, Turner, Liebert As an example shown in the last entry in TABLE I, the power to the heating tape was maintained at about 69.25 W, the cell potential was typically in the range of 2.45 V, and the electrochemical input power was about 1.68 W at 692 mA/cm2 for a total input power of about 70.9W. We would expect 1.68 Wof joule heating to result in a 5.1 °C increase in temperature; however, the temperature increased by 82.4° C, which corresponds to a gain of about 27.1 W, according to the calibration curve. Therefore, a net gain of 25.4Wwas in excess, which results in an excess power gain of 1512 percent, in the range of 627 W/cm3 Pd. -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Elevated-temperature excess heat production in a Pd D system in 1991
Corrosion is something I always suspected that would lead Rossi to the use of a bit of copper with nickel Rossi, given that such alloys are more resilient to electrochemical processes. 2011/11/28 Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com I spoke with Liaw at ICCF-2 Como 1991. The system had very great problems of corrosion. Rule No. 6 of problem solving says: NOT the main desired positive effect, but those secondary negative and/or undesired effects decide in most cases if a solution is implemented. It seems corrosion was so severe that this way was abandoned.. Peter *(* http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com/2011/06/super-rule-included-complete-list-of.html * * * * On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 3:01 AM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: It was in the 1990 paper : - Original Message - Liebert's still around : http://newenergytimes.com/v2/archives/fic/F/F199010.PDF 1990 : EXCESS HEAT USING MOLTEN-SALT ELECTROCHEMICAL CELL By Professors Liaw, Tao, Turner, Liebert As an example shown in the last entry in TABLE I, the power to the heating tape was maintained at about 69.25 W, the cell potential was typically in the range of 2.45 V, and the electrochemical input power was about 1.68 W at 692 mA/cm2 for a total input power of about 70.9W. We would expect 1.68 Wof joule heating to result in a 5.1 °C increase in temperature; however, the temperature increased by 82.4° C, which corresponds to a gain of about 27.1 W, according to the calibration curve. Therefore, a net gain of 25.4Wwas in excess, which results in an excess power gain of 1512 percent, in the range of 627 W/cm3 Pd. -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Elevated-temperature excess heat production in a Pd D system in 1991
peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: I think, this says all. This guy is a professional electrochemist and without doubt he has 1000fold more possibilities than I. If he gave up, he has doubts himself. He gave up because he could not get funding. That is what he told me. This approach is expensive. He is certain the results were real. Most cold fusion research has been abandoned because the researchers could not get funding, or they retired or died. Not because they gave up. - Jed
[Vo]:Elevated-temperature excess heat production in a Pd D system in 1991
Found this paper referenced on the web: Journal of Electroanalytic Chemistry.JEC 319 (1991) 161-175 Elevated-temperature excess heat production in a Pd D system, by Liaw, Tao, and Liebert. Couldn't find it in the lenr-canr archives. It does seem to be a significant peer reviewed result. Claimed this was first high power LENR system with 1500% power gain at 460 C temperature. Anybody have the paper or a link? AG
Re: [Vo]:Elevated-temperature excess heat production in a Pd D system in 1991
Liebert's still around : http://www.me.hawaii.edu/faculty/liebert.htm You've probably googled these already, but here's some related stuff http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2doc=GetTRDoc.pdfAD=ADA282335 CHARGING HYDROGEN INTO Ni IN HYDRIDE-CONTAINING MOLTEN SALTS http://newenergytimes.com/v2/archives/fic/F/F199010.PDF 1990 : EXCESS HEAT USING MOLTEN-SALT ELECTROCHEMICAL CELL By Professors Liaw, Tao, Turner, Liebert - Original Message - Found this paper referenced on the web: Journal of Electroanalytic Chemistry.JEC 319 (1991) 161-175 Elevated-temperature excess heat production in a Pd D system, by Liaw, Tao, and Liebert.
Re: [Vo]:Elevated-temperature excess heat production in a Pd D system in 1991
It was in the 1990 paper : - Original Message - Liebert's still around : http://newenergytimes.com/v2/archives/fic/F/F199010.PDF 1990 : EXCESS HEAT USING MOLTEN-SALT ELECTROCHEMICAL CELL By Professors Liaw, Tao, Turner, Liebert As an example shown in the last entry in TABLE I, the power to the heating tape was maintained at about 69.25 W, the cell potential was typically in the range of 2.45 V, and the electrochemical input power was about 1.68 W at 692 mA/cm2 for a total input power of about 70.9W. We would expect 1.68 Wof joule heating to result in a 5.1 °C increase in temperature; however, the temperature increased by 82.4° C, which corresponds to a gain of about 27.1 W, according to the calibration curve. Therefore, a net gain of 25.4Wwas in excess, which results in an excess power gain of 1512 percent, in the range of 627 W/cm3 Pd.
Re: [Vo]:Elevated-temperature excess heat production in a Pd D system in 1991
How in H**L was that result ignored? But then again if 300 Ktons / y of Rossi's Nickel fuel (at 2.3 tons / TWh) will reduce the amount of fossil fuel used for energy production to zero, well there could be a reason. AG On 11/28/2011 11:31 AM, Alan Fletcher wrote: It was in the 1990 paper : - Original Message - Liebert's still around : http://newenergytimes.com/v2/archives/fic/F/F199010.PDF 1990 : EXCESS HEAT USING MOLTEN-SALT ELECTROCHEMICAL CELL By Professors Liaw, Tao, Turner, Liebert As an example shown in the last entry in TABLE I, the power to the heating tape was maintained at about 69.25 W, the cell potential was typically in the range of 2.45 V, and the electrochemical input power was about 1.68 W at 692 mA/cm2 for a total input power of about 70.9W. We would expect 1.68 Wof joule heating to result in a 5.1 °C increase in temperature; however, the temperature increased by 82.4° C, which corresponds to a gain of about 27.1 W, according to the calibration curve. Therefore, a net gain of 25.4Wwas in excess, which results in an excess power gain of 1512 percent, in the range of 627 W/cm3 Pd.
Re: [Vo]:Elevated-temperature excess heat production in a Pd D system in 1991
From: http://faq.ecat.com/112449/how-much-nickel-and-hydrogen-will-it-take-to-generate-one-megawatt-of-heat-continuously-for-six-months/ it will take 18 kg H and 10 kg Ni fuel to generate 4.4 GWh of heat = 0.44 GWh / kg of Ni fuel, 2.3 kg of Ni fuel / GWh, 2.3 tons of Ni fuel / TWh 300 kTon of Ni fuel to replace all usage of fossil fuels for energy. AG On 11/28/2011 11:54 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote: How in H**L was that result ignored? But then again if 300 Ktons / y of Rossi's Nickel fuel (at 2.3 tons / TWh) will reduce the amount of fossil fuel used for energy production to zero, well there could be a reason. AG On 11/28/2011 11:31 AM, Alan Fletcher wrote: It was in the 1990 paper : - Original Message - Liebert's still around : http://newenergytimes.com/v2/archives/fic/F/F199010.PDF 1990 : EXCESS HEAT USING MOLTEN-SALT ELECTROCHEMICAL CELL By Professors Liaw, Tao, Turner, Liebert As an example shown in the last entry in TABLE I, the power to the heating tape was maintained at about 69.25 W, the cell potential was typically in the range of 2.45 V, and the electrochemical input power was about 1.68 W at 692 mA/cm2 for a total input power of about 70.9W. We would expect 1.68 Wof joule heating to result in a 5.1 °C increase in temperature; however, the temperature increased by 82.4° C, which corresponds to a gain of about 27.1 W, according to the calibration curve. Therefore, a net gain of 25.4Wwas in excess, which results in an excess power gain of 1512 percent, in the range of 627 W/cm3 Pd.
RE: [Vo]:Elevated-temperature excess heat production in a Pd D system in 1991
World demand for nickel peaked in 2006 at 1.4 million tonnes; it is now down to about 1M tonnes. 300K tons is not going to be that hard to supply... and the transition from petroleum-based energy to CF/LENR (if it happens, and is not delayed for decades by legal battles) will ramp up over several years, so there shouldn't be any problem with supplying the basic fuel (Ni and H). Of course, the price of Ni is going to see a pretty drastic increase, so Rossi's estimates of costs are probably not realistic except for the very short term. -mark -Original Message- From: Aussie Guy E-Cat [mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 5:35 PM 300 kTon of Ni fuel to replace all usage of fossil fuels for energy. AG
Re: [Vo]:Elevated-temperature excess heat production in a Pd D system in 1991
From an Australian point of view and seeing we have the world's largest Nickel deposits, I suspect that as demand increases there are a few Nickel mines and refineries that will spring back into life. I expect the E-Cats that are rolling off the assembly line in 2 years will use less Ni per GWh produced. Probably not a big increase in the price of Ni but blood all over the fossil fuel futures market trading floor. Maybe a good time to go long on Nickel and short on fossil fuels. AG On 11/28/2011 2:59 PM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint wrote: World demand for nickel peaked in 2006 at 1.4 million tonnes; it is now down to about 1M tonnes. 300K tons is not going to be that hard to supply... and the transition from petroleum-based energy to CF/LENR (if it happens, and is not delayed for decades by legal battles) will ramp up over several years, so there shouldn't be any problem with supplying the basic fuel (Ni and H). Of course, the price of Ni is going to see a pretty drastic increase, so Rossi's estimates of costs are probably not realistic except for the very short term. -mark -Original Message- From: Aussie Guy E-Cat [mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 5:35 PM 300 kTon of Ni fuel to replace all usage of fossil fuels for energy. AG
Re: [Vo]:Elevated-temperature excess heat production in a Pd D system in 1991
I spoke with Liaw at ICCF-2 Como 1991. The system had very great problems of corrosion. Rule No. 6 of problem solving says: NOT the main desired positive effect, but those secondary negative and/or undesired effects decide in most cases if a solution is implemented. It seems corrosion was so severe that this way was abandoned.. Peter *(* http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com/2011/06/super-rule-included-complete-list-of.html * * * * On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 3:01 AM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: It was in the 1990 paper : - Original Message - Liebert's still around : http://newenergytimes.com/v2/archives/fic/F/F199010.PDF 1990 : EXCESS HEAT USING MOLTEN-SALT ELECTROCHEMICAL CELL By Professors Liaw, Tao, Turner, Liebert As an example shown in the last entry in TABLE I, the power to the heating tape was maintained at about 69.25 W, the cell potential was typically in the range of 2.45 V, and the electrochemical input power was about 1.68 W at 692 mA/cm2 for a total input power of about 70.9W. We would expect 1.68 Wof joule heating to result in a 5.1 °C increase in temperature; however, the temperature increased by 82.4° C, which corresponds to a gain of about 27.1 W, according to the calibration curve. Therefore, a net gain of 25.4Wwas in excess, which results in an excess power gain of 1512 percent, in the range of 627 W/cm3 Pd. -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Elevated-temperature excess heat production in a Pd D system in 1991
The usual black pot witch's brew -- ah, yes, severe corrosion -- would Heffner or Cude like to give this one a close shave -- more details than Rossi -- be fun to practice on something new -- any followup research by anyone? within mutual service, Rich Murray http://newenergytimes.com/v2/archives/fic/F/F199010.PDF 1990 October ISSN 1051-8738 VOLUME 2 NUMBER 4 FUSION FACTS OCTOBER 1990 SPECIAL ISSUE FOR ATTENDEES AT ANOMALOUS NUCLEAR EFFECTS IN DEUTERIUM/SOLID SYSTEMS CONFERENCE Brigham Young University - OCT 22-24, 1990 EXCESS HEAT USING MOLTEN SALT ELECTROCHEMICAL CELL A. EXCESS HEAT USING MOLTEN-SALT ELECTROCHEMICAL CELL By Professors Liaw, Tao, Turner, Liebert THE FOLLOWING ARTICLE is published complete with TABLES AND FIGURES. B.Y. Liaw, P.L. Tao (Hawaii Natural Energy Inst), P. Turner B.E. Liebert (Dept. of Mech. Engr., U of Hawaii), Elevated Temperature Excess Heat Production Using Molten-Salt Electrochemical Techniques, Being published in the Proceedings of the Special Symposiumon Cold Fusion,World Hydrogen Energy Conference #8, Honolulu, HI, July 22-27, 1990. Note: We are grateful to the authors and to the University of Hawaii for permission to print this important technical paper in full in this issue of Fusion Facts. Given the very large energy yields and the potential application to amuch wider group of alloys, the editors believe this to be one of the most important papers to be given at a cold fusion symposiumsince the initial announcement by Fleischmann and Pons of the discovery of cold fusion (March 23, 1989). ABSTRACT An investigation of elevated-temperature excess heat production in the Ti-D and Pd-D systems is presented here. A eutectic LiCl- KCl molten salt saturated with LiD is used as the electrolyte in a Pd/Al or Ti/Al electrochemical cell. Typical operating temperatures are around 370°C, which results in faster kinetics compared to room temperature operation. If this system can be developed for utility applications, high-grade heat and high thermodynamic efficiencies can be expected. Since the electrolyte provides a very reducing environment, metal surface oxides are readily removed; thus, this unique system offers the possibility ofusing less expensive materials than Pd. Amodified isoperibol calorimeter was built for the excess power measurements. Preliminary results show high levels of excess power output, especially in the Pd-D system, although the effect remains sporadic. On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 9:19 PM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: I spoke with Liaw at ICCF-2 Como 1991. The system had very great problems of corrosion. Rule No. 6 of problem solving says: NOT the main desired positive effect, but those secondary negative and/or undesired effects decide in most cases if a solution is implemented. It seems corrosion was so severe that this way was abandoned.. Peter ( http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com/2011/06/super-rule-included-complete-list-of.html On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 3:01 AM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: It was in the 1990 paper : - Original Message - Liebert's still around : http://newenergytimes.com/v2/archives/fic/F/F199010.PDF 1990 : EXCESS HEAT USING MOLTEN-SALT ELECTROCHEMICAL CELL By Professors Liaw, Tao, Turner, Liebert As an example shown in the last entry in TABLE I, the power to the heating tape was maintained at about 69.25 W, the cell potential was typically in the range of 2.45 V, and the electrochemical input power was about 1.68 W at 692 mA/cm2 for a total input power of about 70.9W. We would expect 1.68 Wof joule heating to result in a 5.1 °C increase in temperature; however, the temperature increased by 82.4° C, which corresponds to a gain of about 27.1 W, according to the calibration curve. Therefore, a net gain of 25.4Wwas in excess, which results in an excess power gain of 1512 percent, in the range of 627 W/cm3 Pd. -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Elevated-temperature excess heat production in a Pd D system in 1991
- Original Nachricht Von: Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com An: vortex-l@eskimo.com Datum: 28.11.2011 06:19 Betreff: Re: [Vo]:Elevated-temperature excess heat production in a Pd D system in 1991 I spoke with Liaw at ICCF-2 Como 1991. The system had very great problems of corrosion. Rule No. 6 of problem solving says: NOT the main desired positive effect, but those secondary negative and/or undesired effects decide in most cases if a solution is implemented. It seems corrosion was so severe that this way was abandoned.. Technical problems are not important, these are almost ever solvable if the reward is high. History has shown this. We are on moon now, and everybody has a mobile phone and we have GPS and Laser. Impossible? So, why dont they publish their findings? Possibly others find a solution. It would be important to have a key experiment that is repeatable and that works. There is an unfortunate mechanism: First they publish success. This is is euphorical accepted by the LENR community and makes the way into their collection of papers. Then they continue their research and find unexpected problems or find errors. They give up. Of course this is not published. This is why there are so many positive results. This is also the mechanism why there are so many positive results about UFO's and unicorns. ;-) It seems most documented LENR successes are of this type: Unfinished stories about an anticipated success that never was tested and confirmed beyond all doubts. Peter Peter *(* http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com/2011/06/super-rule-included-complete-list-o f.html * * * * On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 3:01 AM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: It was in the 1990 paper : - Original Message - Liebert's still around : http://newenergytimes.com/v2/archives/fic/F/F199010.PDF 1990 : EXCESS HEAT USING MOLTEN-SALT ELECTROCHEMICAL CELL By Professors Liaw, Tao, Turner, Liebert As an example shown in the last entry in TABLE I, the power to the heating tape was maintained at about 69.25 W, the cell potential was typically in the range of 2.45 V, and the electrochemical input power was about 1.68 W at 692 mA/cm2 for a total input power of about 70.9W. We would expect 1.68 Wof joule heating to result in a 5.1 °C increase in temperature; however, the temperature increased by 82.4° C, which corresponds to a gain of about 27.1 W, according to the calibration curve. Therefore, a net gain of 25.4Wwas in excess, which results in an excess power gain of 1512 percent, in the range of 627 W/cm3 Pd. -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
