subject:"Re\: Energy"

Harry,

 I scanned and uploaded this document to scribd.com
 It was written in the late seventies so the statistics are
 dated but the subject matter is still relevant given the
 current discussion about values, economics and the
 endless discussions about energy on vortex ;-)

 
 Energy and the Value Society
 

 By John G. Melvin, a nuclear engineer with AECL.(He died in 2007)

 http://www.scribd.com/full/46090006?access_key=key-gsc2g9c2bkbszd52bum

The subject material does seem extremely relevant. I would like to
read the document. Unfortunately the scanning resolution, as placed
out at scribd.com, is inadequate for reading purposes. Would it be
possible to re-scan the article at a more suitable resolution? There
appear to be approximately 23-24 individual pages, which I grant you
would be more work to re-scan at a  higher resolution (individually)
than scanning two pages simultaneously of an open book faced down on a
flatbed scanner.

I sure would like to read it. (Computer Central wants a crack at it
too, for... ahem... As I was informed: ...to enrich CC's historical
knowledge base pertaining to 20th century macroeconomic
perspectives.) ;-)

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:Re: Energy and the Value Society

2011-01-03 Thread Jed Rothwell

I tried some methods of OCRing this document, but the text is too small. 
The errors make the results unreadable.


There is no point to uploading this kind of document. It is a darn shame.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Re: Energy and the Value Society

From Jed:

 I tried some methods of OCRing this document, but the text is too small. The
 errors make the results unreadable.

 There is no point to uploading this kind of document. It is a darn shame.

 http://www.scribd.com/full/46090006?access_key=key-gsc2g9c2bkbszd52bum

If the physical source cannot be rescanned at a higher resolution, it
is still conceivable that the scanned images currently loaded out at
scribd.com could be manually transcribed, and with a very high degree
of accuracy.

The problem is that a human would have to volunteer to perform the
actual translation. Obviously, the volunteer would have to display
individual pages on their monitor screen and zoom into each page - up
to the point that the heavily pixelated words still remain
more-or-less intelligible, particularly when taken into context with
what precedes and what follows it.

I actually read about three or four pages into the document myself. I
was pretty sure I was reading each sentence accurately. Actually, it
wasn't all that difficult to guess at what the individual words were.
In fact, I wanted to read more because the writer obviously knew a
thing or two. Unfortunately, I got lazy. Too much effort. I simply
wanted to read the document and not have to constantly guess at the
meaning of certain words. Bummer.

Nevertheless, I bring this suggestion to the awareness of the Vort
Collective because I suspect there may be an individual or two who may
rise to the challenge! Some of us are better at tackling such tasks
than others.

In which case you can be assured that, as always, your ultimate reward
will be a virtual hand-shake and a pat on the back.

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:Re: Energy and the Value Society

2011-01-03 Thread Terry Blanton

There's a copy in the University of Ontario Institute of Technology:

http://dspace.library.dc-uoit.ca/uoit/handle/dcuoit/1664

I'll bet if you talked sweet to the librarian, she would make you a
copy.  Maybe for a fee.  :-)

T

Re: [Vo]:Re: Energy and the Value Society

2011-01-03 Thread mixent

In reply to  OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson's message of Mon, 3 Jan 2011 11:36:54
-0600:
Hi,
[snip]
 By John G. Melvin, a nuclear engineer with AECL.(He died in 2007)

 http://www.scribd.com/full/46090006?access_key=key-gsc2g9c2bkbszd52bum

The subject material does seem extremely relevant. I would like to
read the document. Unfortunately the scanning resolution, as placed
out at scribd.com, is inadequate for reading purposes. 

If you use firefox you can just hit ctrl+ a couple of times and it gets
magnified to the point where it can be read.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html

Re: [Vo]:Re: Energy and the Value Society

2011-01-03 Thread Harry Veeder


Jed and Steven,

Sorry about that.
Did you try the zoom feature at the bottom of the web page?

I do have a higher resolution images for each page. There are a total
of 12 images and the average size is about 0.5 MB.
If you want I could send them privately.


Harry



- Original Message 
 From: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com
 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
 Sent: Mon, January 3, 2011 2:00:37 PM
 Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Energy and the Value Society
 
 From Jed:
 
  I tried some methods of OCRing this document, but the text  is too small. 
The
  errors make the results unreadable.
 
   There is no point to uploading this kind of document. It is a darn  shame.
 
  http://www.scribd.com/full/46090006?access_key=key-gsc2g9c2bkbszd52bum
 
 If  the physical source cannot be rescanned at a higher resolution, it
 is still  conceivable that the scanned images currently loaded out at
 scribd.com could  be manually transcribed, and with a very high degree
 of accuracy.
 
 The  problem is that a human would have to volunteer to perform the
 actual  translation. Obviously, the volunteer would have to display
 individual pages  on their monitor screen and zoom into each page - up
 to the point that the  heavily pixelated words still remain
 more-or-less intelligible, particularly  when taken into context with
 what precedes and what follows it.
 
 I  actually read about three or four pages into the document myself. I
 was  pretty sure I was reading each sentence accurately. Actually, it
 wasn't all  that difficult to guess at what the individual words were.
 In fact, I wanted  to read more because the writer obviously knew a
 thing or two. Unfortunately,  I got lazy. Too much effort. I simply
 wanted to read the document and not  have to constantly guess at the
 meaning of certain words.  Bummer.
 
 Nevertheless, I bring this suggestion to the awareness of the  Vort
 Collective because I suspect there may be an individual or two who  may
 rise to the challenge! Some of us are better at tackling such  tasks
 than others.
 
 In which case you can be assured that, as always,  your ultimate reward
 will be a virtual hand-shake and a pat on the  back.
 
 Regards
 Steven Vincent  Johnson
 www.OrionWorks.com
 www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:Re: Energy and the Value Society

Regarding:

 http://www.scribd.com/full/46090006?access_key=key-gsc2g9c2bkbszd52bum

The subject material does seem extremely relevant. I would like to
read the document. Unfortunately the scanning resolution, as placed
out at scribd.com, is inadequate for reading purposes.

 If you use firefox you can just hit ctrl+ a couple of times and it gets
 magnified to the point where it can be read.


Unfortunately, this will not work. The text on individual pages are
actually rasterized graphic images. None of the text is represented
in vectored font format, and therefore will not scale up.

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:Re: Energy and the Value Society

From Harry,

 Jed and Steven,

 Sorry about that.
 Did you try the zoom feature at the bottom of the web page?


Wow! That actually works!

The zoom power is somewhat limited. Nevertheless it increases both the
size the resolution quality just enough so that it is no longer a
chore to guess as to what the writer had actually written!

 I do have a higher resolution images for each page. There are a total
 of 12 images and the average size is about 0.5 MB.
 If you want I could send them privately.

When you get some spare time by all means send me a copy. Use my email
address displayed in my vortex account.

Thanks again, Harry.

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:Re: Energy and the Value Society

2011-01-03 Thread Jed Rothwell

I have the higher res versions from Harry. I will OCR them and post the text
here tomorrow.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Re: Energy and the Value Society

2011-01-03 Thread mixent

In reply to  OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson's message of Mon, 3 Jan 2011 15:11:23
-0600:
Hi,
[snip]
Unfortunately, this will not work. The text on individual pages are
actually rasterized graphic images. None of the text is represented
in vectored font format, and therefore will not scale up.
[snip]
It works fine when I do it.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html

[Vo]:Re: Energy - The World Economy is Saved

2009-10-12 Thread Chris Zell

see:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/6299291/Energy-crisis-is-postponed-as-new-gas-rescues-the-world.html
 
Enough nat gas reserves for 60 years!  Convert the cars and defund terrorism 
and crash the trade deficit.  Goodbye to the peak oil threat.    
 
Yeah, I'd prefer any free energy that was actually practical but the above 
gives me hope that we have enough time to develop such.  We don't have to 
freeze in the dark with $200 a barrel oil while academics argue and 
obfusticate.

Re: [Vo]:Re: Energy - The World Economy is Saved

2009-10-12 Thread Horace Heffner



On Oct 12, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Chris Zell wrote:


see:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/ 
6299291/Energy-crisis-is-postponed-as-new-gas-rescues-the-world.html


Enough nat gas reserves for 60 years!  Convert the cars and defund  
terrorism and crash the trade deficit.  Goodbye to the peak oil  
threat.


Yeah, I'd prefer any free energy that was actually practical but  
the above gives me hope that we have enough time to develop such.   
We don't have to freeze in the dark with $200 a barrel oil while  
academics argue and obfusticate.




The article talks about 1.2 trillion barrels equivalent, or 1.2x10^9  
bbl.  There is 6.1178632 × 10^9 J/bbl, so that is 7.34x10^18 J total  
in reserve.  The world energy demand in 2050 is expected to require  
about 35 TW, which is 3.5x10^10 J/s.  That the reserves at that rate  
can last (7.34x10^18 )/(3.5x10^10 J/s. = 2.1x10^8 s = 6.6 years.


A 10% efficient solar system can produce the year 2050 world energy  
needs of 35 terawatts in an area 370 miles on a side. This is an  
incredibly small footprint for world energy production and one which  
can be divided up across many countries, and locations. Solar energy  
can take many forms, including solar thermal systems, photovoltaic  
systems, and, for vehicle fuels, algae production.  Algae production  
takes a larger footprint, but is only needed for producing fuel that  
can be used in aircraft and vehicles.  See oilgae.com.  Oil from  
algae has already been tested in diesel engines and in jet aircraft.   
Daniel Nocera's invention of an extremely efficient catalyst for  
production of hydrogen means that daily storage and production of  
hydrogen can be used to smooth solar energy availability for utility  
energy production. It also means new kinds of plants for fertilizer  
production, fuel, and natural gas synthesis can come online using  
only energy of the sun, air, and sea water as raw materials. Hydrogen  
is a major feed stock for the chemical industry.


Solar energy production at a public utility level is not only  
feasible, but available now if the government red tape preventing  
projects of the size proposed can be eliminated.  Various companies  
are struggling to acquire desert land and rights of way to build the  
US power infrastructure for tomorrow.  In many cases the only thing  
missing is sufficient political will to get the regulations out of  
the way so the solutions to tomorrows energy needs can be built.


Best regards,

Horace Heffner
http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/

Re: [Vo]:Re: Energy - The World Economy is Saved

On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net wrote:

 The article talks about 1.2 trillion barrels equivalent, or 1.2x10^9 bbl.
  There is 6.1178632 × 10^9 J/bbl, so that is 7.34x10^18 J total in reserve.
  The world energy demand in 2050 is expected to require about 35 TW, which
 is 3.5x10^10 J/s.  That the reserves at that rate can last (7.34x10^18
 )/(3.5x10^10 J/s. = 2.1x10^8 s = 6.6 years.

That would be 1.2x10^12.

Terry

Re: [Vo]:Re: Energy - The World Economy is Saved

2009-10-12 Thread Horace Heffner



On Oct 12, 2009, at 9:21 AM, Terry Blanton wrote:

On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Horace Heffner  
hheff...@mtaonline.net wrote:


The article talks about 1.2 trillion barrels equivalent, or  
1.2x10^9 bbl.
 There is 6.1178632 × 10^9 J/bbl, so that is 7.34x10^18 J total in  
reserve.
 The world energy demand in 2050 is expected to require about 35  
TW, which
is 3.5x10^10 J/s.  That the reserves at that rate can last  
(7.34x10^18

)/(3.5x10^10 J/s. = 2.1x10^8 s = 6.6 years.


That would be 1.2x10^12.

Terry


Argh again! 8^)  My mistake.  Thanks!  However, I made the same  
mistake twice!  The errors cancel.  Even a stopped clock can be right  
twice a day!  Here is a corrected version:



The article talks about 1.2 trillion barrels equivalent reserves, or  
1.2x10^12 bbl.  There is 6.1178632 × 10^9 J/bbl, so that is  
7.34x10^21 J total in reserve.  The world energy demand in 2050 is  
expected to require about 35 TW, which is 3.5x10^13 J/s.  That the  
reserves at that rate can last (7.34x10^21 J )/(3.5x10^13 J/s). =  
2.1x10^8 s = 6.6 years.


A 10% efficient solar system can produce the year 2050 world energy  
needs of 35 terawatts in an area 370 miles on a side. This is an  
incredibly small footprint for world energy production and one which  
can be divided up across many countries, and locations. Solar energy  
can take many forms, including solar thermal systems, photovoltaic  
systems, and, for vehicle fuels, algae production.  Algae production  
takes a larger footprint, but is only needed for producing fuel that  
can be used in aircraft and vehicles.  See oilgae.com.  Oil from  
algae has already been tested in diesel engines and in jet aircraft.   
Daniel Nocera's invention of an extremely efficient catalyst for  
production of hydrogen means that daily storage and production of  
hydrogen can be used to smooth solar energy availability for utility  
energy production. It also means new kinds of plants for fertilizer  
production, fuel, and natural gas synthesis can come online using  
only energy of the sun, air, and sea water as raw materials. Hydrogen  
is a major feed stock for the chemical industry.


Solar energy production at a public utility level is not only  
feasible, but available now if the government red tape preventing  
projects of the size proposed can be eliminated.  Various companies  
are struggling to acquire desert land and rights of way to build the  
US power infrastructure for tomorrow.  In many cases the only thing  
missing is sufficient political will to get the regulations out of  
the way so the solutions to tomorrows energy needs can be built.


Best regards,

Horace Heffner
http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/

Re: [Vo]:Re: Energy - The World Economy is Saved

2009-10-12 Thread Jed Rothwell


Horace Heffner wrote:


Solar energy production at a public utility level is not only
feasible, but available now if the government red tape preventing
projects of the size proposed can be eliminated.


Government red tape may be a problem now. I wouldn't know. But the 
first large-scale solar thermal projects in the U.S. were built by 
Luz. That company was bankrupted and destroyed by the power 
companies, not the government. The power companies forced them to 
build projects on a scale too small to be profitable.


Government is not always the problem. Industry has plenty to answer 
for. GM destroyed its own electric car business without help or 
hindrance from the government, and then drove itself into bankruptcy 
with incompetent management. No   U.S. corporation is doing cold 
fusion research now as far as I know. If cold fusion prevails this 
will be seen as the worst management decision in history. Some people 
blame the leadership of the DoE for this, but industry often ignores 
DoE initiatives and opinions. You don't see industry going along with 
the DoE in plasma fusion, for example. And why can't industry take 
its cue from the Navy rather than the DoE? All in all, the government 
has done more for cold fusion than any other U.S. institution.


- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Re: Energy - The World Economy is Saved

On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 1:30 PM, Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net wrote:

 Argh again! 8^)

Anticipating winter?  ;-)

Regardless of how you look at it, the author's analysis is flawed.  We
consume around 80M bpd on Earth which gives us about 41 years use at a
constant rate of consumption for the 1.2 trillion bbl discussed.

Terry

RE: [Vo]:Re: Energy - The World Economy is Saved

2009-10-12 Thread Jones Beene

If anything can save the World economy it is not going to be fossil fuel,
that is most short-sighted ... 

 much more likely is that it will be from other breakthroughs, like the
one being mentioned today: the new type of Solid Fusion Reactor ... or
else the similar Mills' Solid Fuel Reactor both of which have a surprising
similarity. Or else something similar but better from someone else. Both
camps, the CF and the Hydrino camp, will immediately deny the
cross-similarity, as always.

However, both of these are essentially nano-nickel reactors. There will be
alternatives from others, including Haisch and Moddel as Fran will likely
point out - but it is likely that BLP will be the first to market - given
the $80 million plus which they must have run through, so far. 

That market opening by BLP will actually benefit others, since they do not
have all the answers.

The new results of A-Z are small potatoes by comparison to what BLP did
years ago, in terms of net energy released - but clearly show (once again)
that energy can be produced by a nickel alloy - Ni30-Pd5 and that this alloy
is superior to pure palladium, and to pure nickel. Let me repeat - the
nickel is more active for LENR in Arata than palladium, just as Mills'
theory indicates it should be. Arata's big advance is the alloy of the two.

Apparently the implications of that have still not sunk-in for most
observers, but Arata did publish the nickel finding in 2005, IIRC. 

Mills - in using Raney nickel has the identical kind of nano-geometry with
nickel, and he has been at it for longer. Yet Mills has consistently refused
to let his ash (residue from the reactor) be analyzed.

Why?

The answer that best fits the circumstances is that analysis would
demonstrate what a few of us have suspected, and posted, for a long time -
i.e. that there is transmutation evidence of LENR in the ash ! 

 but likely, it is a novel kind of harmless transmutation; and much could
be learned from a full disclosure. Yet the truth would jeopardize Mills' IP,
even negate it - so he is placed in a very uncomfortable squeeze. Kinda
like... dare I say ... going far below ground state?

My guess - and you (already) heard it first on Vortex some time ago, is that
the Mills' solid fuel reactor converts 23Na into 24Mg, in a new kind of QM
reaction where only the proton is transferred (no real beta decay as there
is no real neutron)- but also ... and most importantly - that this reaction
is NOT the cause of the excess heat - but instead is the RESULT of excess
heat having already been given up (in a QM sense of time reversal ... or to
state it a little more clearly, this transmutation is a QM 'book-balancing'
which effectively avoids any CoE complaints).

Laugh, scorn, or hem-and-haw - all you want, the truth will eventually
emerge. These two camps are more similar than they are different, and no one
has all, or even most of the answers yet.

Jones

Re: [Vo]:Re: Energy - The World Economy is Saved

On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 2:30 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:

 My guess - and you (already) heard it first on Vortex some time ago, is that
 the Mills' solid fuel reactor converts 23Na into 24Mg,

Won't he be consuming his catalyst?

Terry

Re: [Vo]:Re: Energy - The World Economy is Saved

2009-10-12 Thread Jed Rothwell


Terry Blanton wrote:


Won't he be consuming his catalyst?


It ain't a catalyst if you consume it.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Re: Energy - The World Economy is Saved

On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
 Terry Blanton wrote:

 Won't he be consuming his catalyst?

 It ain't a catalyst if you consume it.

:-)  Yeah, that was kinda the point.

Terry

RE: [Vo]:Re: Energy - The World Economy is Saved

2009-10-12 Thread Jones Beene

 or else it is a consumable catalyst.

In googling this phrase, it turns out that some Na compounds, like sodium
methylate, used in biofuel, are in this category. Presumably it must be
cheap enough to be consumed.


-Original Message-
From: Jed Rothwell 

Terry Blanton wrote:

Won't he be consuming his catalyst?

It ain't a catalyst if you consume it.

Re: [Vo]:Re: Energy - The World Economy is Saved

2009-10-12 Thread Horace Heffner



On Oct 12, 2009, at 10:30 AM, Jones Beene wrote:



The answer that best fits the circumstances is that analysis would
demonstrate what a few of us have suspected, and posted, for a long  
time -

i.e. that there is transmutation evidence of LENR in the ash !


Yes, indeed.



 but likely, it is a novel kind of harmless transmutation; and  
much could
be learned from a full disclosure. Yet the truth would jeopardize  
Mills' IP,
even negate it - so he is placed in a very uncomfortable squeeze.  
Kinda

like... dare I say ... going far below ground state?


Yes, as in going all the way to the deflated state hydrogen (p e)*,  
(D e)*, or (T e)*.




My guess - and you (already) heard it first on Vortex some time  
ago, is that
the Mills' solid fuel reactor converts 23Na into 24Mg, in a new  
kind of QM
reaction where only the proton is transferred (no real beta decay  
as there
is no real neutron)- but also ... and most importantly - that this  
reaction
is NOT the cause of the excess heat - but instead is the RESULT of  
excess
heat having already been given up (in a QM sense of time  
reversal ... or to
state it a little more clearly, this transmutation is a QM 'book- 
balancing'

which effectively avoids any CoE complaints).


Not necessarily does proton capture sap excess heat from the  
locality, it may just extract energy from the vacuum, and with no  
clear signature. See my comments below.





Laugh, scorn, or hem-and-haw - all you want, the truth will eventually
emerge. These two camps are more similar than they are different,  
and no one

has all, or even most of the answers yet.

Jones



We all keep working on it though!

There have been hints of the possibility of cold proton reactions  
in various experiments.  I would suggest that neither the  
conventional hot p-p nor the conventional hot p-e-p reactions could  
be expected to have reaction rates that explain excess heat, because  
they are weak reactions and have clear signatures.  I would expect  
strong lattice element x transmutations of the form p-e-x to be many  
orders of magnitude more probable, and that such transmutations would  
produce far less excess heat than the nuclear reactions and mass loss  
would normally indicate.  Further, I think the following reaction  
might produce excess heat by extracting it from the vacuum:


   p + e + p - (p e)* + p - (p e p)* - (p e p)* + gamma - p + e  
+ p + gamma


Here the gamma is only called gamma because it is radiation issued  
from a composite of sub-atomic size, but it consists of many photons  
in the EUV range.  The electron in the (p e p)* state is massive and  
small in wave length, and capable of radiation as well as expanding  
its wave form via zero point energy.  The binding energy of the (p e  
p)* state is electromagnetic and possibly electroweak, with a  
significant portion being magnetic, i.e. a relativistic retarded  
virtual photon exchange, with energy borrowed from the vacuum for  
momentary heavy particle creation.


Both lattice transmutation and the radiating (p e p)* states can be  
expected to be preceded by formation of a briefly existing deflated  
state hydrogen state, i.e.:


   p + e - (p e)*

and catalyzed by the resulting (p e)* complex.  The (p e)* deflated  
state is a neutral energy state, a degenerate quantum state that  
coexists with the p + e state.  However, once, by tunneling, such a  
complex combines with a positive nucleus, the resulting complex, (p e  
p)* or (p e x)* is highly de-energized by an amount dependent upon  
the initial wavelength of the state that results from the tunneling  
and wave function collapse.  This de-energizing is not energy  
conservative.  The field energy is momentarily returned to the  
vacuum.  Considering the cold fusion version of the p-e-p reaction we  
would most commonly have:


  p + e + p - (p e)* + p - (p e p)* - p + e + p + gamma

where gamma is multiple EUV photons derived from vacuum energy. The  
gammas are produced from vacuum energy, as the electron goes through  
a process of expanding its wave length and radiating, even though the  
initial (p e p)* complex state is highly de-energized.


Similarly, the electron catalyzed p(x,y)gamma transmutation reaction  
would occur as follows:



  p + e + x - (p e)* + x - (p e x)* - y + e + gamma

where the energy released in the form of multiple gammas has far less
to do with the mass change from x to y than the size of the initial
(p e x)* wave function.

The basis of these concepts was published as Speculations Regarding  
the Nature of Cold Fusion,Infinite Energy (I.E.), Volume 14, Issue  
80, July/August 2008, and here:


http://www.mtaonline.net/%7Ehheffner/DeflationFusion2.pdf

The amount and probability of zero point energy, nuclear heat, in the  
form of photons, depends on the duration of the electron's existence  
in the nucleus.  As noted in the Deflation Fusion article above, the  
existence time for the deflated (p e)* or (D e)* state

Re: [Vo]:Re: Energy - The World Economy is Saved

2009-10-12 Thread Mike Carrell

With respect to Mills and BLP, it is helpful to study Mills' extensive 
posts, rather than other's misunderstandinds and speculations about what is 
actuallly said. There have been significant advbances in the BLP chemistry, 
as evidenced by changes in the front page of the website. The reactions need 
study, but they *do not, repeat not, involve transmutation*. The 'solid 
fuel' reaction first publicized has a problem in that the chemical 
regeneration of the reactive charge proved unsuitable for a commercial 
application. There are several more candidates undergoing evaluation..


One is free to speculate about seeming similarities between Mills' work and 
various flavors of LENR, but such speculation does not define the path that 
BLP is actualy on, which is outlined on the website.


Mike Carrell

- Original Message - 
From: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com

To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Energy - The World Economy is Saved



On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 2:30 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:

My guess - and you (already) heard it first on Vortex some time ago, is 
that

the Mills' solid fuel reactor converts 23Na into 24Mg,


Won't he be consuming his catalyst?

Terry



This Email has been scanned for all viruses by Medford Leas I.T. 
Department.

[Vo]:Re: Energy conversion via Electron affinity

2007-09-10 Thread Michel Jullian

 Battery - Zinc-Copper
 El. S.E.P Elec.AFF.
 Zn -0.76  0
 Cu +0.16  119

The Zn Cu cell voltage is 1.1V, corresponding to a Cu half reaction standard 
electrode potential of +0.34V  (0.34-(-0.76)=1.1), not +0.16V cf 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_cell. You must have picked the wrong Cu 
half reaction. Also note that the standard electrode potentials are only valid 
in aqueous solution.

BTW something puzzles me about those standard electrode potentials. They are 
relative to the Standard hydrogen electrode 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_hydrogen_electrode , whose _absolute_ 
potential is about 4.5V (other sources give a more precise value of 4.44V):
--
standard hydrogen electrode (abbreviated SHE), also called normal hydrogen 
electrode (NHE), is a redox electrode which is placed in the basis of the 
thermodynamic scale of oxidation-reduction potentials. Its absolute electrode 
potential is estimated to be 4.4V to 4.6V, but to form a basis for comparison 
with all other electrode reactions, Hydrogen's standard electrode potential 
(E0) is declared to be zero. Potentials of any other electrodes are compared 
with the standard hydrogen electrode.
Hydrogen electrode is based on the redox half cell:
2H+(aq) + 2e- - H2(g)
--

It would seem sensible to conclude from the above that, near zero current and 
in Standard conditions, the Zn negative terminal of the Zn/Cu battery is at 
4.44-0.76=3.68V above the bulk of the electrolyte, while the Cu positive 
terminal is at 4.44+0.34=4.78V above the electrolyte (salt bridge voltage drop 
is zero cf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_cell ), so that the potential 
difference between the Cu and the Zn is indeed 4.78-3.68=1.1V.

The problem with this conclusion is, if _both_ electrodes are _above_ 
electrolyte potential, then the hydrated ions of their double layers should be 
negative at both electrodes, which we know is not true (they are positive at 
the negative electrode). I must be missing something obvious, any help welcome.

Michel

- Original Message - 
From: Horace Heffner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 12:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Energy conversion via Electron affinity


 It looks like the metal-metal junction can be nicely engineered.
 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_electrode_potential_%28data_page 
 %29
 
 http://www.mpoweruk.com/chemistries.htm
 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_affinity
 
 Some numbers:
 
 El. S.E.P Elec.AFF.
 Au -0.60  223
 Zn -0.76  0
 Pb -0.36  35
 Ag +0.80  126
 Cu +0.16  119
 
 It appears in this case it is possible to have your cake and eat it  
 too.  There is no direct correlation between electron affinity and  
 standard electrode potential.  That is to say, the metal to metal  
 junction can actually add energy to the process, especially in an H2O  
 or H2O plus H gas transport environment.  Some cases:
 
 Battery - Zinc-Copper
 El. S.E.P Elec.AFF.
 Zn -0.76  0
 Cu +0.16  119
 Junction electron current: Zn--Cu
 Gap electron current: Zn--Cu   (Not good)
 
 Dry Pile - Zinc-Silver
 ==
 El. S.E.P Elec.AFF.
 Zn -0.76  0
 Ag +0.80  126
 Junction electron current: Zn--Ag
 Gap electron current: Zn--Ag  (Not Good)
 
 
 Zinc-gold
 ==
 El. S.E.P Elec.AFF.
 Zn -0.76  0
 Au -0.60  223
 Junction electron current: Zn--Au
 Gap electron current: Zn--Au  (Not good)
 
 
 Lead-gold
 ==
 Pb -0.36  35
 Au -0.60  223
 Junction electron current: Au--Pb
 Gap electron current: Pb--Au  (OK)
 
 
 
 It is of interest that electrons in Zn-Ag battery flow from the Zn  
 electrode to the Ag electrode.  The bias across the metal to metal  
 junction is such that electrons gain a potential going from zinc to  
 silver.  This is in *opposition* to the way the electrons flow in a  
 battery.   It is of further interest that zinc is a hole conductor.  
 It acts like a p-type semiconductor at a junction with electron  
 conductors, which then act like n-type conductors.  The metal to  
 metal interface thus should form a depletion region and thus a  
 barrier potential.  See Figure 2.  There are plus charges on the n- 
 region side and - charges on the p-region zinc side of the barrier.   
 Electrons have a fight uphill energy-wise going from the n-type  
 conductor to the p-type zinc.
 
  electron donor
z
- - - - - - - - -  Interface
+ + + + + + + + +  Depletion Region
a
  electron acceptor
 
^
|   Gap
e-
 Transport
 
 
  electron donor
z
- - - - - - - - -  Interface
+ + + + + + + + +  Depletion Region
a
  electron acceptor
 
   Key:
  zz - Zinc electrode
  aa - Silver electrode
  ++ - Plus charge adjacent to depletion region
  -- - Minus charge adjacent to depletion

[Vo]:Re: Energy conversion via Electron affinity

2007-09-10 Thread Michel Jullian

(re-sending, 1st try didn't make it to the list it seems)

- Original Message - 
From: Michel Jullian [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: Energy conversion via Electron affinity

 Battery - Zinc-Copper
 El. S.E.P Elec.AFF.
 Zn -0.76  0
 Cu +0.16  119

The Zn Cu cell voltage is 1.1V, corresponding to a Cu half reaction standard 
electrode potential of +0.34V  (0.34-(-0.76)=1.1), not +0.16V cf 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_cell. You must have picked the wrong Cu 
half reaction. Also note that the standard electrode potentials are only valid 
in aqueous solution.

BTW something puzzles me about those standard electrode potentials. They are 
relative to the Standard hydrogen electrode 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_hydrogen_electrode , whose _absolute_ 
potential is about 4.5V (other sources give a more precise value of 4.44V):
--
standard hydrogen electrode (abbreviated SHE), also called normal hydrogen 
electrode (NHE), is a redox electrode which is placed in the basis of the 
thermodynamic scale of oxidation-reduction potentials. Its absolute electrode 
potential is estimated to be 4.4V to 4.6V, but to form a basis for comparison 
with all other electrode reactions, Hydrogen's standard electrode potential 
(E0) is declared to be zero. Potentials of any other electrodes are compared 
with the standard hydrogen electrode.
Hydrogen electrode is based on the redox half cell:
2H+(aq) + 2e- - H2(g)
--

It would seem sensible to conclude from the above that, near zero current and 
in Standard conditions, the Zn negative terminal of the Zn/Cu battery is at 
4.44-0.76=3.68V above the bulk of the electrolyte, while the Cu positive 
terminal is at 4.44+0.34=4.78V above the electrolyte (salt bridge voltage drop 
is zero cf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_cell ), so that the potential 
difference between the Cu and the Zn is indeed 4.78-3.68=1.1V.

The problem with this conclusion is, if _both_ electrodes are _above_ 
electrolyte potential, then the hydrated ions of their double layers should be 
negative at both electrodes, which we know is not true (they are positive at 
the negative electrode). I must be missing something obvious, any help welcome.

Michel

- Original Message - 
From: Horace Heffner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 12:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Energy conversion via Electron affinity

 It looks like the metal-metal junction can be nicely engineered.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_electrode_potential_%28data_page 
 %29

 http://www.mpoweruk.com/chemistries.htm

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_affinity

 Some numbers:

 El. S.E.P Elec.AFF.
 Au -0.60  223
 Zn -0.76  0
 Pb -0.36  35
 Ag +0.80  126
 Cu +0.16  119

 It appears in this case it is possible to have your cake and eat it  
 too.  There is no direct correlation between electron affinity and  
 standard electrode potential.  That is to say, the metal to metal  
 junction can actually add energy to the process, especially in an H2O  
 or H2O plus H gas transport environment.  Some cases:

 Battery - Zinc-Copper
 El. S.E.P Elec.AFF.
 Zn -0.76  0
 Cu +0.16  119
 Junction electron current: Zn--Cu
 Gap electron current: Zn--Cu   (Not good)

 Dry Pile - Zinc-Silver
 ==
 El. S.E.P Elec.AFF.
 Zn -0.76  0
 Ag +0.80  126
 Junction electron current: Zn--Ag
 Gap electron current: Zn--Ag  (Not Good)

 Zinc-gold
 ==
 El. S.E.P Elec.AFF.
 Zn -0.76  0
 Au -0.60  223
 Junction electron current: Zn--Au
 Gap electron current: Zn--Au  (Not good)

 Lead-gold
 ==
 Pb -0.36  35
 Au -0.60  223
 Junction electron current: Au--Pb
 Gap electron current: Pb--Au  (OK)

 It is of interest that electrons in Zn-Ag battery flow from the Zn  
 electrode to the Ag electrode.  The bias across the metal to metal  
 junction is such that electrons gain a potential going from zinc to  
 silver.  This is in *opposition* to the way the electrons flow in a  
 battery.   It is of further interest that zinc is a hole conductor.  
 It acts like a p-type semiconductor at a junction with electron  
 conductors, which then act like n-type conductors.  The metal to  
 metal interface thus should form a depletion region and thus a  
 barrier potential.  See Figure 2.  There are plus charges on the n- 
 region side and - charges on the p-region zinc side of the barrier.   
 Electrons have a fight uphill energy-wise going from the n-type  
 conductor to the p-type zinc.

  electron donor
z
- - - - - - - - -  Interface
+ + + + + + + + +  Depletion Region
a
  electron acceptor

^
|   Gap
e-
 Transport

  electron donor
z
- - - - - - - - -  Interface

Re: [Vo]: Re: Energy Violations using standard physics

2007-02-01 Thread David Jonsson


I see retarded and advanced gravity fields as energy violations in standard
physics.

David

[Vo]: Re: Energy Violations using standard physics

2007-01-31 Thread Jones Beene

Hey - that image came through. I didn't know that it was possible to 
attach images to vortex posts, as it would often be helpful.


What is the size limit?




Terry Blanton wrote:

On 1/31/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I knew of rexresearch, as I purchased nearly 3 feet stacked high of
their infolios ~20 years ago. :-)   What I still don't know is what
vortex image you are referring to.



Let's see if I can attach it to a Vortex-l post.

Terry

Re: [Vo]: Re: Energy Violations using standard physics

2007-01-31 Thread Terry Blanton


On 1/31/07, Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hey - that image came through. I didn't know that it was possible to
attach images to vortex posts, as it would often be helpful.

What is the size limit?


40 kB according to the subscription message; however, you have to
allow for MIME encoding and any texting overheads; so, I'd shrink 'em
down to 30 kB.

Terry

[Vo]: Re: Energy Violations using standard physics

2007-01-24 Thread Jones Beene

Speaking of blatant physics-scofflaws, this fellow should be ticketed- 
as an incorrigible perpetual offender by the Sci-police:


http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/magneticDev/finsrud/finsrud.htm

or - straight to the vid.

http://www.reidarfinsrud.no/sider/mobile/knapper/download.gif

[Vo]: Re: Energy Violations using standard physics

2007-01-22 Thread Jones Beene


Paul wrote:

 Present science has *no idea* how, why, or what sustain the

magnetic dipole moment of the electron.


FWIW - Hal Puthoff seems to have a pretty good mathematical 
understanding of this, but one suspects that is not easy for him or 
anyone else to put that into words - other than three-letter acronyms.


Jones

Re: [Vo]: Re: Energy Violations using standard physics

2007-01-22 Thread Paul

Jones Beene wrote:
  Paul wrote:
 
Present science has *no idea* how, why, or what
sustain the
  magnetic dipole moment of the electron.
 
  FWIW - Hal Puthoff seems to have a pretty good
mathematical
  understanding of this, but one suspects that is not
easy for him or
  anyone else to put that into words - other than
three-letter acronyms.
 
  Jones


Thanks.  I see Harold Puthoff wrote, Fundamentals of
Quantum Electronics.   Perhaps his 
math and theories are online?  Where does he believe
the energy comes from?  I've 
theorized it comes from the sea of energy we call
time-space.  Some referred to it as ZPE, 
quantum foam, or Aether.


Regards,
Paul Lowrance



 

Want to start your own business?
Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index

[Vo]: Re: Energy Violations using standard physics

2007-01-22 Thread Jones Beene


Paul wrote:


Perhaps his  math and theories are online?  Where does he believe
the energy comes from?  I've theorized it comes from the sea of energy we call
time-space.  Some referred to it as ZPE,  quantum foam, or Aether.


Yup. You are plowing the same field as Puthoff did twenty years ago.

Here is the website address for pubs:
http://www.earthtech.org/publications/index.html

Try:
H. E. Puthoff, The Energetic Vacuum: Implications for Energy Research, 
Spec. in Sci. and Technology 13, 247 (1990).


...for starters' and then note that in their lab work they have yet to 
really find the definitive experiment to actually prove the theory of 
ZPE coherence:


http://www.earthtech.org/experiments/index.html

Re: [Vo]: Re: Energy Violations using standard physics

2007-01-22 Thread Terry Blanton


On 1/22/07, Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


FWIW - Hal Puthoff seems to have a pretty good mathematical
understanding of this, but one suspects that is not easy for him or
anyone else to put that into words - other than three-letter acronyms.


Sign in Marshall SFC, Huntsville (true story):

No more TLAs

(Three Letter Acronyms)  :-)

Terry

Re: [Vo]: Re: Energy Violations using standard physics

2007-01-22 Thread Terry Blanton


On 1/22/07, Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Where does he believe
the energy comes from?


Simple answer:  the other side of zero.

Terry

RE: Energy given up is enthalpy loss -dH

2006-06-04 Thread Frederick Sparber

: Michel Jullian wrote


 Fred wrote:
  So here is CHEMIX's thermochemistry answer for the reaction we
discussed
  (copy-paste):
 
  2H2(g) + O2(g) = 2H2O(l) + 571.6kJ
 
  which solves the controversy (produced energy is equal to
-dH=572kJ/mol,
  not
  to -dG=474kJ/mol), doesn't it Fred?   :)))
 
  I'm not sure, Michel. The heat of formation from the elements dH is
  2 x 498,000 for 2 H2 molecules from 4 H atoms and 498,000 for an O2
  molecule
  from 2 O atoms.
  Then you have to break 3 x 498,000 = 1.49E6 kJ  to form 2 H2Omolecules
  from 4 H  atoms + 2 O atoms --- H-O-H + H-O-H (4 x 498 kJ) - (3 x 498
kJ)
  = 498 kJ
 
  Which implies that 571.6 kJ - 498 kJ = 73.6 kJ is the heat given up
  by the two H2O molecules when cooled from a hot gas to liquid H2O
  in the calorimeter???.

 _Moles_ of atoms/molecules you mean Fred. Yes that's about it. Had you
used 
 more accurate bond energies, instead of 73.6 kJ you would have found 88
kJ, 
 i.e. twice the water condensation energy 44kJ per mole of H2O (1 mole of
H2O 
 = 18g = 6.02*10^23 molecules of H2O)

 Controversy solved?

Yes, but to show how the dH values vary check out this URL
on Hess' Law.

http://wine1.sb.fsu.edu/chm1045/notes/Energy/HessLaw/Energy04.htm

Fred

 Michel

Re: Energy given up is enthalpy loss -dH

2006-06-04 Thread Michel Jullian

Fred wrote:
...
 Controversy solved?

 Yes, but to show how the dH values vary check out this URL
 on Hess' Law.

 http://wine1.sb.fsu.edu/chm1045/notes/Energy/HessLaw/Energy04.htm

Yes indeed! Enthalpy variation is path-independent, which makes perfect 
sense since it results from bonds (intramolecular AND intermolecular) broken 
and made: what matters is the net energy balance between the final bonds in 
the final products and the initial bonds in the initial reactants (chemical 
bond energy is nothing but coulombic force potential energy, and heat is 
kinetic energy, and the sum of them must stay constant if some of the bond 
energy turns into heat like in the reaction we have been discussing)

There is only so much bond energy in 2H2(g) and O2(g), and so much bond 
energy in H2O(l), net energy is the difference, whatever has happened in 
between (besides many things DO happen in between as you pointed out Fred).

This makes me think of a nice exercise I wrote a few weeks ago to convince 
someone else of path-independence of produced (or absorbed) energy in a net 
reaction. Here it is it's quite relevant to what is discussed here, the 
lucky few here who have my spreadsheet (approved by Michael MacKubre, mind 
you) can do it without any table lookup nor calculations:

--
1/ In the water evaporation reaction H2O(l)-H2O(g), how much energy
produced (or absorbed if negative) per g of water?

2/ Then try the same net reaction but with an intermediate step in
the path:

  2a/ Dissociate the liquid water: H2O(l)-H2(g) + 0.5 O2(g)
   (by electrolysis or whatever, it's irrelevant)
How many J per g of H2O(l)?

  2b/ Now recombine the gases to get vapor: H2(g) + 0.5 O2(g) - H2O(g)
(explosively, catalytically, it's irrelevant)
How many J per g of H2O(g)?

3/ How many J net for 2a/ + 2b/ per g of water, how does it compare
with the result for 1/?
--

Cheers,
Michel

Re: Energy Secretary Sees Fusion as Part of Solution

2006-05-24 Thread Stephen A. Lawrence




Kyle R. Mcallister wrote:

from the story you quote:

President Bush's administration goal is to replace 75 percent of
the United States' Middle East oil imports with alternative fuels by 
2025.


So what does that mean to you? Anyone else here care to comment?


Well, I'll answer that, sarcastically as always of course. My faith in 
anything that El Presidente Bush has to say has dwindled to a record 
low, as has his popularity amongst most Americans, it seems. I also find 
the statement 75 percent of...Middle East oil imports a bit fishy. 
AFAIK, we import most of our oil from other regions than the middle 
eastcan anyone comment on this? If that is indeed the case, then it 
would amount to cutting 75 percent of XX percent of our total imports of 
oil. So what does that help? Not a damned thing, in my opinion.


1. We will still be burning oil without seriously looking into something 
else.
2. The supply of oil will remain (relatively) constant, insofar as if we 
import only from say South American fields,


In case nobody's noticed, things are hotting up in South America too. 
Morale's nationalization of Bolivia's oil fields is surely just the 
opening gambit.


I dare say the rulers of Central and South America are quite familiar 
with the notion of Peak Oil...



the Middle Easterners will 
just sell to someone else. Doesn't really do much to combat the amounts 
of money flowing to terrorism from oil exports, does it?


So I am very skeptical of this. And just about anything else the Bush 
(or any other recent) administration has to say.


--Kyle

Re: Energy Secretary Sees Fusion as Part of Solution

2006-05-24 Thread Kyle R. Mcallister


Stephen A. Lawrence wrote:

In case nobody's noticed, things are hotting up in South America too. 
Morale's nationalization of Bolivia's oil fields is surely just the 
opening gambit.


I dare say the rulers of Central and South America are quite familiar with 
the notion of Peak Oil...


True. Just to clarify when I said the oil will remain relatively constant 
I didn't mean as far as what is left in the ground, which is obviously 
finite. I just meant that all cutting some fraction of middle eastern 
imports will likely do under Bush's plan is just shift that percentage 
towards oil imported from somewhere else, that is, our import remains 
relatively constant. In short, I don't trust what he is saying. But that's 
just me.


--Kyle

Re: Energy Secretary Sees Fusion as Part of Solution

2006-05-24 Thread RC Macaulay




Stephen wrote..

In case nobody's noticed, things are hotting up in South America too. 
 Morale's nationalization of Bolivia's oil fields is surely just the 
 opening gambit. I dare say the rulers of Central and 
South America are quite familiar with  the notion of Peak 
Oil...Howdy Stephen,

The natural gas reserves of Bolivia are huge, the largest in South 
America. Brazil needs the gas. Venezuela is fishing in troubled waters. 
Stir up with a brand of South American politics, add the US state dept, the CIA 
and a few disgruntled major oil companies that feel they were " stiffed" and a 
very unsettling scenario can unfold. Supposedly cool heads in Brazil are working 
to keep a calm because it benefits South America.
Unfortunately, it doesn't benefit " big oil" because they cannot control 
this gas market. The game of big oil is profit. Nothing else matters.

Should the US Energy Secretary so choose, he could make mention of the 
promise of Cold Fusion and it would instantly change the world playing field. 
This is why he is not going to mention CF. It will finally leak out , perhaps by 
the French. The " scramble" begins thereafter.

I see a insane feeding frenzy when the CF event bursts upon the world 
scene.

Richard

RE: Energy Secretary Sees Fusion as Part of Solution

2006-05-22 Thread Frederick Sparber




And I say if the Joe Cell or Klein's clone of
it keeps going at the present rate there won't 
be any need for HOT or COLD FUSION,,Mills' Hydrinoor
much Coal, and Natural Gas either.


Fred

- Original Message - 
From: Steven Krivit 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: 5/22/2006 10:36:33 AM 
Subject: Energy Secretary Sees Fusion as Part of Solution
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/3877480.htmlMay 21, 2006, 12:00AMEnergy secretary says coal, oil will power U.S. for decadesSamuel Bodman makes the remarks in speech to South Texas College of Law graduates

RE: Energy Secretary Sees Fusion as Part of Solution

2006-05-22 Thread Keith Nagel

Hi Steve,

from the story you quote:
President Bush's administration goal is to replace 75 percent of
 the United States' Middle East oil imports with alternative fuels by 2025.

So what does that mean to you? Anyone else here care to comment?

K.

RE: Energy Secretary Sees Fusion as Part of Solution

2006-05-22 Thread Grimer

At 10:47 am 22/05/2006 -0600, you wrote:

 And I say if the Joe Cell or Klein's clone of
 it keeps going at the present rate there won't 
 be any need for HOT or COLD FUSION,,Mills' Hydrino or
 much Coal, and Natural Gas  either.

 Fred

You sound as though you have confidence that it will, Fred.
How long do you think it will be before a Vortexian
can get one and give testimony to the rest of us that
it works.

Frank

Re: Energy Secretary Sees Fusion as Part of Solution

2006-05-22 Thread Robin van Spaandonk

In reply to  Steven Krivit's message of Mon, 22 May 2006 09:37:12
-0700:
Hi,
[snip]
Bodman has told Congress that part of the solution will come from increased 
research on hydrogen, solar and biological fuels, and fusion, a nuclear 
reaction that produces no radioactive waste.

Perhaps someone should tell him that the only form of fusion that
produces no radioactive waste is Cold Fusion. 

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

Competition provides the motivation,
Cooperation provides the means.

Re: Energy Secretary Sees Fusion as Part of Solution

2006-05-22 Thread Steven Krivit


Yeah, ain't that a kick?

First prize for the Australian team.



Perhaps someone should tell him that the only form of fusion that
produces no radioactive waste is Cold Fusion.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction

A prime example of ZPE Extraction at High Energy Densities?

"[This is academic parlance for (do I dare say it?) "over unity".]"

http://pesn.com/2006/03/08/9600245_Z-Machine_2_billion_degrees/

A description of the achievement, as well as a possible explanation by Sandia consultant Malcolm Haines, well-known for his work in Z pinches at the Imperial College in London, appeared in the Feb. 24 Physical Review Letters.
Texas AM in collaboration with Lawrenceville Plasma Physics achieved a similar result in 2001 with a plasma focus device, rather than a wire z pinch as done by Sandia. They also achieved 200 keV, but with just 1.4 mega amp input in comparison to Sandia's 20 MA input. (Ref1, Ref2)
What happened and why?Zs energies in these experiments raised several questions.
First, the radiated x-ray output was as much as four times the expected kinetic energy input.
Ordinarily, in non-nuclear reactions, output energies are less not greater than the total input energies. More energy had to be getting in to balance the books, but from where could it come?
Second, and more unusually, high ion temperatures were sustained after the plasma had stagnated that is, after its ions had presumably lost motion and therefore energy and therefore heat as though yet again some unknown agent was providing an additional energy source to the ions.[This is academic parlance for (do I dare say it?) "over unity".]
Sandias Z machine normally works like this: 20 million amps of electricity pass through a small core of vertical tungsten wires finer than human hairs. The core is about the size of a spool of thread. The wires dissolve instantly into a cloud of charged particles called a plasma.
The plasma, caught in the grip of the very strong magnetic field accompanying the electrical current, is compressed to the thickness of a pencil lead. This happens very rapidly, at a velocity that would fly a plane from New York to San Francisco in several seconds.

Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction




Adding iron (same as the iron from the stainless steel in the
Joe Cell ) gives strange results, doesn't it? :-) 

Mossbauer Effect Iron works best?

Fred


http://pesn.com/2006/03/18/9600251_Lawrenceville_and_Sandia_fusion_compared/

"Its possible that part of the difference in ion and electron energies is due to the magnetic field effect, comments Focus Fusion Society Executive Director Eric Lerner. Lerner has pointed out the importance of the effect, which slows the transfer of energy from ions to electrons in a high magnetic field. While the fields achieved in the Z-machine are low compared with the fields achieved in the plasma focus, the value of the critical magnetic field for the effect decreases as the atomic mass of the ions increases. For iron ions with an energy of 150 keV, the critical field is 250 MG, and even for a field of 50 MG the magnetic field effect will slow ion heating of electrons by a facto of six."

- Original Message - 
From: Frederick Sparber 
To: vortex-l
Sent: 4/22/2006 5:40:47 AM 
Subject: Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction

A prime example of ZPE Extraction at High Energy Densities?

"[This is academic parlance for (do I dare say it?) "over unity".]"

http://pesn.com/2006/03/08/9600245_Z-Machine_2_billion_degrees/


A description of the achievement, as well as a possible explanation by Sandia consultant Malcolm Haines, well-known for his work in Z pinches at the Imperial College in London, appeared in the Feb. 24 Physical Review Letters.
Texas AM in collaboration with Lawrenceville Plasma Physics achieved a similar result in 2001 with a plasma focus device, rather than a wire z pinch as done by Sandia. They also achieved 200 keV, but with just 1.4 mega amp input in comparison to Sandia's 20 MA input. (Ref1, Ref2)
What happened and why?Zs energies in these experiments raised several questions.
First, the radiated x-ray output was as much as four times the expected kinetic energy input.
Ordinarily, in non-nuclear reactions, output energies are less  not greater  than the total input energies. More energy had to be getting in to balance the books, but from where could it come?
Second, and more unusually, high ion temperatures were sustained after the plasma had stagnated  that is, after its ions had presumably lost motion and therefore energy and therefore heat  as though yet again some unknown agent was providing an additional energy source to the ions.[This is academic parlance for (do I dare say it?) "over unity".]
Sandias Z machine normally works like this: 20 million amps of electricity pass through a small core of vertical tungsten wires finer than human hairs. The core is about the size of a spool of thread. The wires dissolve instantly into a cloud of charged particles called a plasma.
The plasma, caught in the grip of the very strong magnetic field accompanying the electrical current, is compressed to the thickness of a pencil lead. This happens very rapidly, at a velocity that would fly a plane from New York to San Francisco in several seconds.

Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction



Trouble in OZ?

http://pesn.com/

http://pesn.com/2006/04/13/9600257_Bill_Williams_threatened/


Joe Cell Truck Builder Threatened, Destroys Plans
After announcing that he had successfully built a truck that runs on Joe Cell technology, drawing energy from water and Orgone, Bill Williams said he was approached by two men who demanded that he stop his research, threatening him with dire consequences if he didn't. Others are keeping it alive.

Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction

2006-04-22 Thread RC Macaulay






Fred wrote..

A prime example of ZPE Extraction at High Energy Densities?

"[This is academic parlance for (do I dare say it?) "over 
unity".]"
Howdy Fred,
The experiments are an example of the lack of understanding of what science 
describes as " electricity". We have been strapped for years with the foolish 
misunderstanding of " current" and " amperage". These two words must be cast in 
the trashbin of psuedo-science and someone finally step forward and simply ask 
the question.. what is electricity and magetism?
We don't know!!
. Sandia and AM can search for Easter eggs under every "Bush" of 
research money but at the end of the daywind up witha basket 
ofbrightly colored straw ("scientic papers") but nothing else. 
Richard

Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction









- Original Message - 
From: RC Macaulay 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: 4/22/2006 7:00:05 AM 
Subject: Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction


Fred wrote..

A prime example of ZPE Extraction at High Energy Densities?

"[This is academic parlance for (do I dare say it?) "over unity".]"

Howdy Fred,
The experiments are an example of the lack of understanding of what science describes as " electricity". We have been strapped for years with the foolish misunderstanding of " current" and " amperage". These two words must be cast in the trashbin of psuedo-science and someone finally step forward and simply ask the question.. what is electricity and magetism?
We don't know!!
. Sandia and AM can search for Easter eggs under every "Bush" of research money but at the end of the daywind up witha basket ofbrightly colored straw ("scientic papers") but nothing else.

This is as Close to the answer as you can get, Richard.
Dyatov's Polarized Vacuum:

http://www.americanantigravity.com/articles/526/1/Polarization-Model-of-the-Inhomogeneous-Physical-Vacuum



Davis and Puthoff's Polarized Vacuum:

http://www.earthtech.org/publications/davis_STAIF_conference_1.pdf


"We are presently unaware of any way to artificially generate gravitational squeezing of the vacuum in the
laboratory. This will be left for future investigation."
" Suffice it to say that ultrahigh-intensity tabletop lasers have been used to generate
extreme electric and magnetic field strengths in the lab."
Richard

Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction



BTW. Richard.

In the early 80s we were working with a machinist in Ohio that built wire forming
equipment to see if he could build machinery (NC) for high speed formation
of our patented structural panel.
During our coffee-break session when the subject of energy independence
came up he told us the tale of some acquaintances that had built a device
(as I know now from what he described) very similar to the Joe Cell.

Their phones were tapped and threatening phone calls were received.

Anyhow they contacted the Feds, and Senator Ed Muskie held hearings
with some Detroit auto-makers present, and the Detroit faction agreed to
run tests on the vehicle equipped with the device, "if they bring it over". 
On the way to Detroit on the Interstate east of Toledo they stopped
for coffee and doughnuts. While they were inside, their car in the parking lot
"exploded". 
They said, "to hell with it", and headed home.

Wouldn't you? :-)

Fred

Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction

With respect to the Metal-Electrolyte Interface in electrolysis cells.

6.0millivolts potential across ~2.0e-9 meters Helmholtz Layer is 3.0 million volts/meter
but the energy density at 0.5 microfarads per square meter capacitance
W = 1/2 CV^2 = 9.0e-6 joules/2.0e-9 meters = 4,500 joules per cubic meter.

Enough to make the Joe Cell as interesting as Pons Fleischmann's
"exploding CF Cell that blew a hole in the concrete floor".

Fred.

http://www.chemistry.nmsu.edu/studntres/chem435/Lab14/double_layer.html

"The double layer is formed in order to neutralize the charged surface and, in turn, causes an electrokinetic potential between the surface and any point in the mass of the suspending liquid. This voltage difference is on the order of millivolts and is referred to as the surface potential. The magnitude of the surface potential is related to the surface charge and the thickness of the double layer. As we leave the surface, the potential drops off roughly linearly in the Stern layer and then exponentially through the diffuse layer, approaching zero at the imaginary boundary of the double layer"

http://scienceweek.com/2004/sc040806-2.htm
Surface Plasmons (SPs):

"2) SPs were widely recognized in the field of surface science following the pioneering work of Ritchie in the 1950s (1). SPs are waves that propagate along the surface of a conductor, usually a metal, and are essentially light waves that are trapped on the surface because of their interaction with the free electrons of the conductor (strictly speaking, they should be called surface plasmon polaritons to reflect this hybrid nature(2)). In this interaction, the free electrons respond collectively by oscillating in resonance with the light wave. The resonant interaction between the surface charge oscillation and the electromagnetic field of the light constitutes the SP and gives rise to its unique properties."

Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction

2006-04-22 Thread Jones Beene




BTW there I've spent the last two hours playing the 
more than a dozen Joe_Cell videos clipettes:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3839365001372302522q=joe+cellpl=true

This takes a lot of bandwitdth... and hurry as its 
sure to get overloaded.

Yes. They have lips of ICEs running on "just" water 
(for a few minutes) and many other amazing things. However, it begs for some 
semblance of real testing. 

The best part is... since the Google video is still 
in beta - with a little perserverance, you can get to all kinds of cool stuff - 
like a trailer for DVC with Tom Hanks... bet Terry hasn't even seen this 
yet.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3042129287648980230pl=true

Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction

2006-04-22 Thread hohlrauml6d




-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene

... bet Terry hasn't even seen this yet.



Don't bet much:

http://www.sonypictures.com/movies/thedavincicode/

Join the quest:

http://flash.sonypictures.com/movies/davincicodequest/

I solved the one on the book web site in 45 minutes without a copy of 
the book in front of me.


;-)

-  Sir Teabing

(an anagram)
 


___
Try the New Netscape Mail Today!
Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List
http://mail.netscape.com

Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction

2006-04-21 Thread Frederick Sparber



Posted earlier.
 
 Electrical Energy Density, Joule/meter^3 and 
 Field Intensity, Volts/Meter for the Electron, Proton, and the 
 Earth, 1.0e22 joule/meter^3, 1.2e35 joule/meter^3 and 
 5.0e20 joule/meter^3 respectively, suggests that the two 
 act together to alter the vacuum permittivity eo by 
 a factor +/- delta eo.

 Similarly altering Magnetic Energy Density and Field Intensity
 seems to affect +/- delta uo in the same manner.
 
The "Gross" energy density joules/meter^3 of a cubic meter (1,000 kg) 
of water is mc^2 joule/meter^3 = 9.0e19 joules/meter^3.
But, there are 3.3e29electrons, each with 1.0e22 joule/m^3 , 
6.6e28 protons with 1.2e35 joule/m^3 and 3.3e28 oxygen atoms 
containing 16 nucleons, each with 1.2e35 joule/meter^3.

OTOH, at the boundary "Electrical" Double Layer of
an electrolysis cell, P  F or the "Joe Cell", Mizuno's W arc, or a
cavitation bubble collapse ,or sonofusion bubble the energy
density can be enormous.

Could these energy densities be sufficient to effect Polarization of the Vacuum
and ZPE Extraction from it?
The Deuteron-Packed Pd lattice too?

Fred

Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction

2006-04-21 Thread Frederick Sparber




This could explain "strange" Cold Fusion, nuclear transmutation reactions too.

Dyatov's Polarized Vacuum:

http://www.americanantigravity.com/articles/526/1/Polarization-Model-of-the-Inhomogeneous-Physical-Vacuum



Davis and Puthoff's Polarized Vacuum:

http://www.earthtech.org/publications/davis_STAIF_conference_1.pdf


"We are presently unaware of any way to artificially generate gravitational squeezing of the vacuum in the
laboratory. This will be left for future investigation."
" Suffice it to say that ultrahigh-intensity tabletop lasers have been used to generate
extreme electric and magnetic field strengths in the lab."

- Original Message - 
From: Frederick Sparber 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: 4/21/2006 4:12:05 AM 
Subject: Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction

Posted earlier.
 
 Electrical Energy Density, Joule/meter^3 and 
 Field Intensity, Volts/Meter for the Electron, Proton, and the 
 Earth, 1.0e22 joule/meter^3, 1.2e35 joule/meter^3 and 
 5.0e20 joule/meter^3 respectively, suggests that the two 
 act together to alter the vacuum permittivity eo by 
 a factor +/- delta eo.

 Similarly altering Magnetic Energy Density and Field Intensity
 seems to affect +/- delta uo in the same manner.
 
The "Gross" energy density joules/meter^3 of a cubic meter (1,000 kg) 
of water is mc^2 joule/meter^3 = 9.0e19 joules/meter^3.
But, there are 3.3e29electrons, each with 1.0e22 joule/m^3 , 
6.6e28 protons with 1.2e35 joule/m^3 and 3.3e28 oxygen atoms 
containing 16 nucleons, each with 1.2e35 joule/meter^3.

OTOH, at the boundary "Electrical" Double Layer of
an electrolysis cell, P  F or the "Joe Cell", Mizuno's W arc, or a
cavitation bubble collapse ,or sonofusion bubble the energy
density can be enormous.

Could these energy densities be sufficient to effect Polarization of the Vacuum
and ZPE Extraction from it?
The Deuteron-Packed Pd lattice too?

Fred

Re: Energy, Force and Gravity



Electrical Energy Density, Joule/meter^3 and 
Field Intensity, Volts/Meter for the Electron, Proton, and the 
Earth, 1.0e20 joule/meter^3, 1.2e35 joule/meter^3 and 
5.0e20 joule/meter^3 respectively, suggests that the two 
act together to alter the vacuum permittivity eo by 
a factor +/- delta eo.

Similarly altering Magnetic Energy Density and Field Intensity
seems to affect +/- delta uo in the same manner.

OTOH, altering either one, independently of the other can give
Orders of Magnitude Energy Amplification by Zero Point Energy,
ZPE, resulting in Antigravity Force Amplification.

Fred

Re: Energy, Force and Gravity

FWIW, The ZPE Amplification Factor is 2.0e16
in order to get 0.5 newtons per joule AG Force.

- Original Message - 
From: Frederick Sparber 
To: vortex-l
Sent: 4/20/2006 3:58:40 AM 
Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity

Electrical Energy Density, Joule/meter^3 and 
Field Intensity, Volts/Meter for the Electron, Proton, and the 
Earth, 1.0e22 joule/meter^3, 1.2e35 joule/meter^3 and 
5.0e20 joule/meter^3 respectively, suggests that the two 
act together to alter the vacuum permittivity eo by 
a factor +/- delta eo.

Similarly altering Magnetic Energy Density and Field Intensity
seems to affect +/- delta uo in the same manner.

OTOH, altering either one, independently of the other can give
Orders of Magnitude Energy Amplification by Zero Point Energy,
ZPE, resulting in Antigravity Force Amplification.

Fred

Re: Energy, Force and Gravity





IF ELECTRONSare proven to be NEGATIVE ENERGY 
attainment of high fields and energy density using them 
Electrostatically or Magnetically can enable reaching
the ~ 2.0e16 ZPE Multiplication Factor.


http://www.earthtech.org/publications/davis_STAIF_conference_1.pdf


"We are presently unaware of any way to artificially generate gravitational squeezing of the vacuum in the
laboratory. This will be left for future investigation."

"It is beyond the scope of this paper to include all the technical configurations by which one can generate radial
electric or magnetic fields. Suffice it to say that ultrahigh-intensity tabletop lasers have been used to generate
extreme electric and magnetic field strengths in the lab."




- Original Message - 
From: Frederick Sparber 
To: vortex-l
Sent: 4/20/2006 4:46:59 AM 
Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity


FWIW, The ZPE Amplification Factor is 2.0e16
in order to get 0.5 newtons per joule AG Force.

- Original Message - 
From: Frederick Sparber 
To: vortex-l
Sent: 4/20/2006 3:58:40 AM 
Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity

Electrical Energy Density, Joule/meter^3 and 
Field Intensity, Volts/Meter for the Electron, Proton, and the 
Earth, 1.0e22 joule/meter^3, 1.2e35 joule/meter^3 and 
5.0e20 joule/meter^3 respectively, suggests that the two 
act together to alter the vacuum permittivity eo by 
a factor +/- delta eo.

Similarly altering Magnetic Energy Density and Field Intensity
seems to affect +/- delta uo in the same manner.

OTOH, altering either one, independently of the other can give
Orders of Magnitude Energy Amplification by Zero Point Energy,
ZPE, resulting in Antigravity Force Amplification.

Fred

Re: Energy, Force and Gravity



Here you go, Terry. :-)
http://www.americanantigravity.com/documents/Dyatlov_Inhomogenous_Vacuum.pdf
"Throughout the many centuries of the history of civilization, mankind has continually
encountered unexplainable or anomalous phenomenon. These include unidentified flying objects
(UFOs), ball lightning, tornadoes, poltergeists, explosions in the atmosphere as well as on the
Earths surface that are not of manmade origin. Three basic approaches have been developed to
perceive and study such phenomena. We shall provisionally refer to them as mythological,
laboratory, and phenomenological events."
"Since ancient times the mythological approach has served as an aid explain folklore and
legends. The idea that UFOs are alien spacecraft has become widespread in our own time. In
the presence of this mindset, other such phenomena also seems to be the creations developed by
alien civilizations."

Re: Energy, Force and Gravity



Puzzle:

Electric Polarization P is defined as the difference between the electric fields D (induced) and E (imposed)
P = D - E
or
P= eoXeE

Electric Susceptibility Xe = K*eo/eo] - 1 = P/eoE eo = 8.8452e-12 C^2 N^-1 m^-2 or Farad m^-1

What happens between the plates 

1, of a vacuum capacitor when K*eo is a function of E?

2, when H2 or D2 is introduced?

3, when the energy density joules/meter^3 a function of D and E
approaches a critical value between the plates of a capacitor?

4, Zero point Energy ZPE tapping at some point?

Do atoms spontaneously ionize at high values of E?

Do Deuterons lose a neutron at high values of E?

Fred

Re: Energy, Force and Gravity




Same Questions:

On a Surface or in a "Condensed Matter" Lattice?

Does this also alter or cause absorption of Gamma or X-Ray Photons?

- Original Message - 
From: Frederick Sparber 
To: vortex-l
Sent: 4/19/2006 4:41:32 AM 
Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity

Puzzle:

Electric Polarization P is defined as the difference between the electric fields D (induced) and E (imposed)
P = D - E
or
P= eoXeE

Electric Susceptibility Xe = K*eo/eo] - 1 = P/eoE eo = 8.8452e-12 C^2 N^-1 m^-2 or Farad m^-1

What happens between the plates 

1, of a vacuum capacitor when K*eo is a function of E?

2, when H2 or D2 is introduced?

3, when the energy density joules/meter^3 a function of D and E
approaches a critical value between the plates of a capacitor?

4, Zero point Energy ZPE tapping at some point?

Do atoms spontaneously ionize at high values of E?

Do Deuterons lose a neutron at high values of E?

Fred

Re: Energy, Force and Gravity




And the Proverbial (Rhetorical ?) Question:

That ~ 3.4e14 m^-2 Solar Neutrino Flux when it interacts
with this stuff? :-)

Fred

- Original Message - 
From: Frederick Sparber 
To: vortex-l
Sent: 4/19/2006 5:08:54 AM 
Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity


Same Questions:

On a Surface or in a "Condensed Matter" Lattice?

Does this also alter or cause absorption of Gamma or X-Ray Photons?

- Original Message - 
From: Frederick Sparber 
To: vortex-l
Sent: 4/19/2006 4:41:32 AM 
Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity

Puzzle:

Electric Polarization P is defined as the difference between the electric fields D (induced) and E (imposed)
P = D - E
or
P= eoXeE

Electric Susceptibility Xe = K*eo/eo] - 1 = P/eoE eo = 8.8452e-12 C^2 N^-1 m^-2 or Farad m^-1

What happens between the plates 

1, of a vacuum capacitor when K*eo is a function of E?

2, when H2 or D2 is introduced?

3, when the energy density joules/meter^3 a function of D and E
approaches a critical value between the plates of a capacitor?

4, Zero point Energy ZPE tapping at some point?

Do atoms spontaneously ionize at high values of E?

Do Deuterons lose a neutron at high values of E?

Fred

Re: Energy, Force and Gravity


Do atoms spontaneously ionize at high values of E?


Yes they do Fred, that's how the soft ionization membrane works: it's a 
capacitor like you describe with holes in it, through which you push the gas 
you want to ionize.


Michel

- Original Message - 
From: Frederick Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity



Puzzle:

Electric Polarization P is defined as the difference between the electric 
fields D (induced) and E (imposed)

P = D - E
or
P = eoXeE

Electric Susceptibility  Xe = K*eo/eo] - 1   = P/eoE eo = 8.8452e-12 
C^2 N^-1 m^-2 or Farad m^-1


What happens between the plates

1, of a vacuum capacitor when K*eo is a function of E?

2, when H2 or D2 is introduced?

3, when the energy density joules/meter^3 a function of D and E
approaches a  critical value between the plates of a capacitor?

4, Zero point Energy ZPE tapping at some point?

Do atoms spontaneously ionize at high values of E?

Do Deuterons lose a neutron at high values of E?

Fred

Re: Energy, Force and Gravity



http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/Polarization.html

Polarization:
"Propagating light consists of a transverse electric and magnetic field, a single photon will oscillate on a line perpendicular to the propagation direction. If the coordinate system is not aligned with the electric field direction, it can be broken up into two perpendicular components."

Pockels Effect:
"An electrooptical effect in which the application of an electric field produces a birefringence which is proportional to the field."

Kerr Effect:
"The development of birefringence when an isotropic transparent substance in placed in an electric field."



Electric Polarization P is defined as the difference between the electric fields D (induced) and E (imposed)
P = D - E
or
P= eoXeE

Electric Susceptibility Xe = K*eo/eo] - 1 = P/eoE eo = 8.8452e-12 C^2 N^-1 m^-2 or Farad m^-1

What happens between the plates 

1, of a vacuum capacitor when K*eo is a function of E?

2, when H2 or D2 is introduced?

3, when the energy density joules/meter^3 a function of D and E
approaches a critical value between the plates of a capacitor?

4, Zero point Energy ZPE tapping at some point?

Do atoms spontaneously ionize at high values of E?

Do Deuterons lose a neutron at high values of E?

On a Surface or in a "Condensed Matter" Lattice?

Does this also alter or cause absorption of Gamma or X-Ray Photons?


The~ 3.4e14 m^-2 sec^-1 Solar Neutrino Flux when it interacts
withhigh EFields?
Neutrino Oscillation?

Vacuum Polarization?

Re: Energy, Force and Gravity

Michel Jullian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Fred wrote

  Do atoms spontaneously ionize at high values of E?

 Yes they do Fred, that's how the soft ionization membrane works: it's a 
 capacitor like you describe with holes in it, through which you push the
gas 
 you want to ionize.

 Michel

Thanks Michel.

That being the case, would a Pd soft ion membrane act as
a deuteron accelerator if hooked something like 
this with 5.0 millimeter spacing, (E = 10e7 volts/meter) or so?
  D2 gas in grounded can
   + 50 KV Pd  membrane
vacuum  
   - 50 KV ___
  vacuum
Fred

Re: Energy, Force and Gravity


Would it be better to make the - 50 KV collector 
a point so that the D+ ions converge in a small area?

A Boron-10 tip Perhaps?  (neutron + Boron-10 --- He4 + Li7 + ~ 3.2 MeV)

Fred

 Michel Jullian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Fred wrote
 
   Do atoms spontaneously ionize at high values of E?
 
  Yes they do Fred, that's how the soft ionization membrane works: it's
a 
  capacitor like you describe with holes in it, through which you push the
 gas 
  you want to ionize.
 
  Michel
 
 Thanks Michel.

 That being the case, would a Pd soft ion membrane act as
 a deuteron accelerator if hooked something like 
 this with 5.0 millimeter spacing, (E = 10e7 volts/meter) or so?
   D2 gas in grounded can
+ 50 KV Pd  membrane
 vacuum  
- 50 KV ___
   vacuum
 Fred

Re: Energy, Force and Gravity

- Original Message - 
From: Frederick Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity

Michel Jullian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Fred wrote

 Do atoms spontaneously ionize at high values of E?

Yes they do Fred, that's how the soft ionization membrane works: it's a
capacitor like you describe with holes in it, through which you push the

gas

you want to ionize.

Michel

Thanks Michel.

That being the case, would a Pd soft ion membrane act as
a deuteron accelerator if hooked something like
this with 5.0 millimeter spacing, (E = 10e7 volts/meter) or so?
 D2 gas in grounded can
  + 50 KV Pd  membrane
   vacuum
  - 50 KV ___
 vacuum

If by this you mean:
   D2 gas in grounded can
  grounded + lead of 50 kV supply Pd  membrane
 vacuum
   - lead of 50 kV supply ___
 vacuum or whatever

then if the field is higher then D ionization field (= H ionization field I 
guess), which I don't know, the answer is yes. Your deuterons should crash 
into the bottom plate with 50 keV energy. The stripped electrons will travel 
through the Pd, the + lead of the supply, the supply, the - lead, and will 
neutralize the arriving deuterons.

A typical soft ionization membrane is much thinner than this, of the order 
of 1 µm near the holes I seem to remember, and works with a few volts I 
believe (Google it up, so you'll know what kind of e-field value is used).

Yet another nice thought experiment :)

Michel

Fred

Re: Energy, Force and Gravity

Or make the emitter a sphere with the D2 supply on the outside, the -50kV 
electrode a grid inside the sphere, and expect D-D fusion in the center. We 
could call this a superfuser ;)


Michel

- Original Message - 
From: Frederick Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity




Would it be better to make the - 50 KV collector
a point so that the D+ ions converge in a small area?

A Boron-10 tip Perhaps?  (neutron + Boron-10 --- He4 + Li7 + ~ 3.2 MeV)

Fred


Michel Jullian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Fred wrote

  Do atoms spontaneously ionize at high values of E?

 Yes they do Fred, that's how the soft ionization membrane works: it's

a
 capacitor like you describe with holes in it, through which you push 
 the

gas
 you want to ionize.

 Michel

Thanks Michel.

That being the case, would a Pd soft ion membrane act as
a deuteron accelerator if hooked something like
this with 5.0 millimeter spacing, (E = 10e7 volts/meter) or so?
  D2 gas in grounded can
   + 50 KV Pd  membrane
vacuum
   - 50 KV ___
  vacuum
Fred

Re: Energy, Force and Gravity

BTW, Michel.

High E Field birefringence effects on a 24 Mev Gamma Photon
should degenerate it (or lower energy ones)  to thermal energy photons.

IOW, 24MeV/2^24.5.= ~ 1

OTOH. 2^8005551212 power is the toll-free information number
for the galaxy.
Watched The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy lately?  :-)

Fred

http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/Polarization.html
 
Polarization:
Propagating light consists of a transverse electric and magnetic field, a
single photon will oscillate on a line perpendicular to the propagation
direction. If the coordinate system is not aligned with the electric field
direction, it can be broken up into two perpendicular components.
 
Pockels Effect:
An electrooptical effect in which the application of an electric field
produces a birefringence which is proportional to the field.
 
Kerr Effect:
The development of birefringence when an isotropic transparent substance
in placed in an electric field.
 
Electric Polarization P is defined as the difference between the electric
fields D (induced) and E (imposed)
P = D - E
or
P = eoXeE 
 
Electric Susceptibility  Xe = K*eo/eo] - 1   = P/eoE eo = 8.8452e-12
C^2 N^-1 m^-2 or Farad m^-1


 
 From: Frederick Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Date: 4/19/2006 8:32:00 AM


 Would it be better to make the - 50 KV collector 
 a point so that the D+ ions converge in a small area?

 A Boron-10 tip Perhaps?  (neutron + Boron-10 --- He4 + Li7 + ~ 3.2 MeV)

 Fred
 
  Michel Jullian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  Fred wrote
  
Do atoms spontaneously ionize at high values of E?
  
   Yes they do Fred, that's how the soft ionization membrane works:
it's
 a 
   capacitor like you describe with holes in it, through which you push
the
  gas 
   you want to ionize.
  
   Michel
  
  Thanks Michel.
 
  That being the case, would a Pd soft ion membrane act as
  a deuteron accelerator if hooked something like 
  this with 5.0 millimeter spacing, (E = 10e7 volts/meter) or so?
D2 gas in grounded can
 + 50 KV Pd  membrane
  vacuum  
 - 50 KV ___
vacuum
  Fred

Re: Energy, Force and Gravity

- Original Message - 
From: Frederick Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity

BTW, Michel.

High E Field birefringence effects on a 24 Mev Gamma Photon
should degenerate it (or lower energy ones)  to thermal energy photons.

IOW, 24MeV/2^24.5.= ~ 1

No idea what you are talking about Fred, as often ;)

OTOH. 2^8005551212 power is the toll-free information number
for the galaxy.
Watched The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy lately?  :-)

I have read all the five books, several times, my favorite trilogy of four 
:)) The original in English, not the French translation which is pathetic. 
Douglas Adams was an absolute genius, it would have taken a genius to do a 
good translation I guess.

Michel

Fred

http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/Polarization.html

Polarization:
Propagating light consists of a transverse electric and magnetic field, a
single photon will oscillate on a line perpendicular to the propagation
direction. If the coordinate system is not aligned with the electric field
direction, it can be broken up into two perpendicular components.

Pockels Effect:
An electrooptical effect in which the application of an electric field
produces a birefringence which is proportional to the field.

Kerr Effect:
The development of birefringence when an isotropic transparent substance
in placed in an electric field.

Electric Polarization P is defined as the difference between the electric
fields D (induced) and E (imposed)
P = D - E
or
P = eoXeE

Electric Susceptibility  Xe = K*eo/eo] - 1   = P/eoE eo = 8.8452e-12
C^2 N^-1 m^-2 or Farad m^-1

From: Frederick Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Date: 4/19/2006 8:32:00 AM

Would it be better to make the - 50 KV collector
a point so that the D+ ions converge in a small area?

A Boron-10 tip Perhaps?  (neutron + Boron-10 --- He4 + Li7 + ~ 3.2 MeV)

Fred

 Michel Jullian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Fred wrote

   Do atoms spontaneously ionize at high values of E?

  Yes they do Fred, that's how the soft ionization membrane works:

it's

a
  capacitor like you describe with holes in it, through which you push

the

 gas
  you want to ionize.

  Michel

 Thanks Michel.

 That being the case, would a Pd soft ion membrane act as
 a deuteron accelerator if hooked something like
 this with 5.0 millimeter spacing, (E = 10e7 volts/meter) or so?
   D2 gas in grounded can
+ 50 KV Pd  membrane
 vacuum
- 50 KV ___
   vacuum
 Fred

Re: Energy, Force and Gravity

Might high E Fields exploit the Coulomb polarization of the deuteron
(Oppenheimer-Phillips Effect) to allow deuteron stripping?

IOW,does the neutron end of a deuteron act as a somewhat negative charge
tending to pull it apart in a high field?

http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRC/v43/i2/p771_1

Coulomb-dominated low-energy deuteron stripping
Received 20 July 1990
Analysis of a three-body model shows that Coulomb polarization of the
deuteron has very little influence on the branching ratio A(d,p)/A(d,n) for
transfer reactions on target nucleus A at very low deuteron energies (the
Oppenheimer-Phillips effect). We see that polarization effects in transfer
reactions are not related to the long range of the Coulomb field, but are
caused by the more intense fields near the target nucleus. However, even in
that region the induced dipole moment is limited by the deuteron binding,
and it is small for low Z targets. We see in addition that the transfer
amplitudes tend to be insensitive to any polarization admixtures in the
entrance channel. On the other hand, the branching ratio can be affected by
the Coulomb barrier for the bound final-state wave function of the proton,
especially for very weakly bound final states. Brief remarks about the
relation of stripping theory to special properties of the d+d system are
included.

 [Original Message]
 From: Frederick Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
 Date: 4/19/2006 9:16:26 AM
 Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity

 BTW, Michel.

 High E Field birefringence effects on a 24 Mev Gamma Photon
 should degenerate it (or lower energy ones)  to thermal energy photons.

 IOW, 24MeV/2^24.5.= ~ 1

 OTOH. 2^8005551212 power is the toll-free information number
 for the galaxy.
 Watched The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy lately?  :-)

 Fred

 http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/Polarization.html
  
 Polarization:
 Propagating light consists of a transverse electric and magnetic field, a
 single photon will oscillate on a line perpendicular to the propagation
 direction. If the coordinate system is not aligned with the electric field
 direction, it can be broken up into two perpendicular components.
  
 Pockels Effect:
 An electrooptical effect in which the application of an electric field
 produces a birefringence which is proportional to the field.
  
 Kerr Effect:
 The development of birefringence when an isotropic transparent substance
 in placed in an electric field.
  
 Electric Polarization P is defined as the difference between the electric
 fields D (induced) and E (imposed)
 P = D - E
 or
 P = eoXeE 
  
 Electric Susceptibility  Xe = K*eo/eo] - 1   = P/eoE eo = 8.8452e-12
 C^2 N^-1 m^-2 or Farad m^-1


  
  From: Frederick Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  Date: 4/19/2006 8:32:00 AM
 
 
  Would it be better to make the - 50 KV collector 
  a point so that the D+ ions converge in a small area?
 
  A Boron-10 tip Perhaps?  (neutron + Boron-10 --- He4 + Li7 + ~ 3.2 MeV)
 
  Fred
  
   Michel Jullian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
   Fred wrote
   
 Do atoms spontaneously ionize at high values of E?
   
Yes they do Fred, that's how the soft ionization membrane works:
 it's
  a 
capacitor like you describe with holes in it, through which you push
 the
   gas 
you want to ionize.
   
Michel
   
   Thanks Michel.
  
   That being the case, would a Pd soft ion membrane act as
   a deuteron accelerator if hooked something like 
   this with 5.0 millimeter spacing, (E = 10e7 volts/meter) or so?
 D2 gas in grounded can
  + 50 KV Pd  membrane
   vacuum  
  - 50 KV ___
 vacuum
   Fred

Re: Energy, Force and Gravity

Michel Jullian wrote.

 From: Frederick Sparber 


  BTW, Michel.
 
  High E Field birefringence effects on a 24 Mev Gamma Photon
  should degenerate it (or lower energy ones)  to thermal energy photons.
 
  IOW, 24MeV/2^24.5.= ~ 1

 No idea what you are talking about Fred, as often ;)

Neither do I, I'm just marking time waiting for Jones' morning mind-bender 
:-)
 
 
  OTOH. 2^8005551212 power is the toll-free information number
  for the galaxy.
  Watched The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy lately?  :-)

 I have read all the five books, several times, my favorite trilogy of
four 
 :)) The original in English, not the French translation which is
pathetic. 
 Douglas Adams was an absolute genius, it would have taken a genius to do
a 
 good translation I guess.

From T-Rex down to the ugliest creepy-crawly land or
marine creatures ever shown, none are as ugly as some of those
shown in the movie.Is it earthling vanity? :-)

BTW, 1.01^8005551212 power is 9.999^99  
or about 1.00 Google.

Fred

 Michel

Re: Energy, Force and Gravity

- Original Message - 
From: Frederick Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 6:41 PM
...

 OTOH. 2^8005551212 power is the toll-free information number
 for the galaxy.
 Watched The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy lately?  :-)

I have read all the five books, several times, my favorite trilogy of

four

:)) The original in English, not the French translation which is

pathetic.

Douglas Adams was an absolute genius, it would have taken a genius to do

a

good translation I guess.

From T-Rex down to the ugliest creepy-crawly land or

marine creatures ever shown, none are as ugly as some of those
shown in the movie.Is it earthling vanity? :-)

I missed the movie (will have to rent the DVD) but from your description it 
must be the Vogons :)

Book 1 Chapter 5:

 Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz was not a pleasant sight, even for other Vogons. 
His highly domed nose rose high above a small piggy forehead. His dark green 
rubbery skin was thick enough for him to play the game of Vogon Civil 
Service politics, and play it well, and waterproof enough for him to survive 
indefinitely at sea depths of up to a thousand feet with no ill effects.
Not that he ever went swimming of course. His busy schedule would not allow 
it. He was the way he was because billions of years ago when the Vogons had 
first crawled out of the sluggish primeval seas of Vogsphere, and had lain 
panting and heaving on the planet's virgin shores... when the first rays of 
the bright young Vogsol sun had shone across them that morning, it was as if 
the forces of evolution had simply given up on them there and then, had 
turned aside in disgust and written them off as an ugly and unfortunate 
mistake.

BTW, 1.01^8005551212 power is 9.999^99

Mmm I doubt it, more like something close to 1+0.01*8005551212=80055513 
isn't it?

Michel

or about 1.00 Google.

Fred

Michel

Re: Energy, Force and Gravity

From: Michel Jullian 


 I missed the movie (will have to rent the DVD) but from your description
it 
 must be the Vogons :)

 Book 1 Chapter 5:

  Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz was not a pleasant sight, even for other Vogons. 
 His highly domed nose rose high above a small piggy forehead. His dark
green 
 rubbery skin was thick enough for him to play the game of Vogon Civil 
 Service politics, and play it well, and waterproof enough for him to
survive 
 indefinitely at sea depths of up to a thousand feet with no ill effects.
 Not that he ever went swimming of course. His busy schedule would not
allow 
 it. He was the way he was because billions of years ago when the Vogons
had 
 first crawled out of the sluggish primeval seas of Vogsphere, and had
lain 
 panting and heaving on the planet's virgin shores... when the first rays
of 
 the bright young Vogsol sun had shone across them that morning, it was as
if 
 the forces of evolution had simply given up on them there and then, had 
 turned aside in disgust and written them off as an ugly and unfortunate 
 mistake.

I missed the Civil Service Politics part, that explains it.
 
  BTW, 1.01^8005551212 power is 9.999^99

 Mmm I doubt it, more like something close to 1+0.01*8005551212=80055513 
 isn't it?

I don't know. My calculator hits 9.9^99 at around 2^334
IOW, if you start out with a penny and double it every hour for
about 334 hours, you can get filthy rich in a couple of weeks.

Fred

 Michel

  or about 1.00 Google.
 
  Fred
 
  Michel

Re: Energy, Force and Gravity