from:"H Veeder"

Even if fraud is highly unlikely, didn't Essen make a technically erroneous
claim?

Harry


On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 2:04 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:

 It is like a bad nightmare; it keeps coming back again and again.  I
 suppose this is what the skeptics are left hanging on too since all the
 evidence is strongly against them.  When will they finally realize that
 Rossi may have something?  Who expects to see Mary, Cude or any of the
 others apologize when the proof finally reaches beyond their bar?  My bet
 is they will hide away and change their fake names to avoid the issue.

 Dave
  -Original Message-
 From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net
 To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
 Sent: Wed, Jun 26, 2013 1:55 pm
 Subject: RE: [Vo]:Face-Palm moment: Essen et al did it again! [Abd's open
 letter]


  *From:* Paul Breed**

   Ø  In past jobs I've both designed and used power meters and I would
 have to agree that if one is attempting to do fraud then putting DC bias on
 an AC wall socket would be one possible way to do this… This fraud is
 easily detected ... so it would be a risky thing to do

 Yes - I think this highlights the major issue. A fraudster could have
 fooled experts if the risk of getting caught was ignored. But even then …
 why? Rossi can never benefit to any great degree unless the device works.
 He has already sold licenses including the US license and several others.
 There is nothing to gain by a fraud now - other than a few extra months of
 a “data holiday”.

 Sooner or later, his licensees will demand real data, or someone will call
 in the FBI, as happened in the Rohner Papp engine fraud. It pretty simple.

 Either Rossi is a twisted ego-maniac willing to risk everything, including
 his personal freedom- on a scam, or else there is something extremely
 important to be had in understanding this device.

 We have beat this dead horse into a pink slime and 4 horse-shoes, no?

 Jones

Re: [Vo]:Face-Palm moment: Essen et al did it again! [Abd's open letter]

I am going to link to this on facebook
Harry


On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Berke Durak berke.du...@gmail.com wrote:

 Allow me to summarize the DC injection hypothesis:

 - It is theoretically possible to add DC to provide ~3kW of power that
 would be invisible to the PCE-830.

 However:

 - Given the size of the wires, I guess that amperage would need to be
 below 50 A.  Otherwise the wires would heat up too much and this would
 show on the thermal camera.
 - This means that a DC offset of 60 V is required for 3kW injection.
 - This means that the scammer must be confident that any instrument or
 device connected would tolerate a 60V DC offset.  This is a large
 offset.  As the DC resistance of the primary winding of transformers
 is small compared to their reactance at 50 Hz, the extra DC would
 probably destroy any attached transformers.
 - The use of any electrical instrument capable of detecting DC would
 need to be prohibited.  A 5$ multimeter can detect DC.  So do
 oscilloscopes, or Fluke power analyzers.  These would have to be
 prohibited.
 - Any significant DC current will produce a significant DC magnetic
 field nearby.  Such a field is easily detectable by most recent
 smartphones or a simple compass.
 - Temporarily switching the extra DC power off when DC-capable
 instrumentation is used wouldn't be possible, as the temperature would
 drop rapidly and this would immediately show on the IR video / temp
 curve.

 --
 Berke Durak

[Vo]:MFMP cells in Europe and US now showing signs of excess heat

Today (June 26, 2013)...


http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/295-simultaneous-test-runs-eu-us


Update 18:15 UTC -

Both the EU Cells and the US Cells were switched on and BOTH indicated
excess energy as the cells came to equilibrium at higher temperatures than
during the calibration tests.  The EU cell with the active wire was
indicating up to 2.5W of excess power over the 30.4W input power (~6%
excess).  That is well above the 95% confidence limits for that cell
(~0.25W).  The US Cell was indicating approximately 1.4 watts excess,
again, well above the ~0.5W confidence interval.   Very exciting to see
something positive and especially simultaneous.

The indicated excess seems to be corroborated by several cell temperatures
higher than calibration values.  The control cells in each location are
performing at or below calibration values.

The internal cell temperatures seem to be slowly degrading, but the
external cell temperatures are holding steady.

The resistance of the active wires is slowly rising as, presumably, the
hydrogen is leaving into the vacuum.

The EU cell has been cycled already, leading to the the active wire
unloading and rising up to a higher resistance than the wire had
originally.

Re: [Vo]:MFMP cells in Europe and US now showing signs of excess heat

A live audio/video discussion is happening now on google hangout:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/112746934321590853702/posts/15RhcoJk6de

Harry




On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 3:05 PM, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote:

 Today (June 26, 2013)...



 http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/295-simultaneous-test-runs-eu-us


 Update 18:15 UTC -

 Both the EU Cells and the US Cells were switched on and BOTH indicated
 excess energy as the cells came to equilibrium at higher temperatures than
 during the calibration tests.  The EU cell with the active wire was
 indicating up to 2.5W of excess power over the 30.4W input power (~6%
 excess).  That is well above the 95% confidence limits for that cell
 (~0.25W).  The US Cell was indicating approximately 1.4 watts excess,
 again, well above the ~0.5W confidence interval.   Very exciting to see
 something positive and especially simultaneous.

 The indicated excess seems to be corroborated by several cell temperatures
 higher than calibration values.  The control cells in each location are
 performing at or below calibration values.

 The internal cell temperatures seem to be slowly degrading, but the
 external cell temperatures are holding steady.

 The resistance of the active wires is slowly rising as, presumably, the
 hydrogen is leaving into the vacuum.

 The EU cell has been cycled already, leading to the the active wire
 unloading and rising up to a higher resistance than the wire had
 originally.

Re: [Vo]:MFMP cells in Europe and US now showing signs of excess heat

Jones,
Yes they are using nichrome and are aware of the issues but they are not
using H in control cells.

Harry


On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:

  ** **

 ** **

 *From:* H Veeder 

 ** **

 **Ø  **The US Cell was indicating approximately 1.4 watts excess, again,
 well above the ~0.5W confidence interval.   Very exciting to see something
 positive and especially simultaneous.

 ** **

 Harry,

 ** **

 If you are in contact with them – please ask if they are still using
 nichrome as a control.

 ** **

 Nichrome is active for LENR for the same reason that Celani’s wires are
 active – the wires contain Ni-62. In fact, they may contain more than
 constantan.

 ** **

 There are plenty of good alternatives to nichrome - resistance wires which
 contains no nickel.

 ** **

 If Quantum is serious about showing excess heat – then they must move away
 from using a control which is also active !

 ** **

 Jones

Re: [Vo]:It was Harry's fault

2013-06-27 Thread H Veeder

So sue me!
I learned about the poll on facebook group _Cold Fusion, LENR and Andrea
Rossi_, so it is their fault too. :-P

Harry


On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Ruby r...@hush.com wrote:


 Washington Post cites Cold Fusion Now in LENR poll win, but Harry started
 it all.


 http://coldfusionnow.org/washington-post-blog-cites-cold-fusion-now-in-lenr-win/

 --
 Ruby Carat
 r...@coldfusionnow.org
 Skype ruby-carat
 www.coldfusionnow.org

[Vo]:Ecat mentioned in Italian parliament again

2013-06-28 Thread H Veeder

Questions about the Ecat and related research have been poised again in the
Italian parliament.

Italian version:
http://www.senato.it/japp/bgt/showdoc/frame.jsp?tipodoc=Sindispleg=17id=704669

google English translation:
http://translate.google.ca/translate?sl=ittl=enjs=nprev=_thl=enie=UTF-8u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.senato.it%2Fjapp%2Fbgt%2Fshowdoc%2Fframe.jsp%3Ftipodoc%3DSindisp%26leg%3D17%26id%3D704669

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Could Rossi add DC Power to AC Lines?

2013-06-29 Thread H Veeder

The tide is coming in and people are oblivious.
Harry

On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 11:26 AM, blaze spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote:

 Because the implications, if the AHE report is accurate, are overwhelming.
   And while it will be net positive, there will be massive creative
 destruction that will occur if the eCat is real.   For example, in my
 province alone huge political spending programs on education and social
 welfare are being made on the promise of future tax and royalty earnings
 over the next decade from our natural gas production (ng which is mostly
 used for heating).

 If those revenues are about to be disrupted, this has huge implications on
 our province and how we plan our infrastructure spending.   10+ Billion
 dollar loans and guarantees are being made based on our current plans.
  Those 10s of billions of tax dollars could potentially be wasted.

 That's just one tiny example that I have specific experience with.
 Survey things on a more global basis and you'll see thousands of similar
 examples worldwide.

 So to idly discuss these claims without proper verification is very
 careless.





 On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 7:43 AM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote:



 Begin forwarded message:

 *From: *Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com
 *Date: *June 29, 2013 8:30:35 AM MDT
 *To: *Eric ehonsow...@ix.netcom.com
 *Cc: *Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com
 *Subject: **Re: [Vo]:Could Rossi add DC Power to AC Lines?*

 Thanks Eric! Another voice of reality and reason is heard. I agree with
 your analysis. Ross not only does not have the ability to create the
 claimed fraud, but also he does not have the incentive to create one that
 would be so easy to discover. He has a method that produces anomalous
 energy, as has been demonstrated to be possible by numerous studies.  He
 has spent his own money trying to get a device to market. The device has
 been examined by competent people, but perhaps not as perfectly as anyone
 would want. Nevertheless, enough to satisfy investors, which is the only
 people who matter at this stage.

 The skeptics are clearly irrational on several levels. As Jones said, if
 Rossi is right, he will greatly help mankind. If Rossi is wrong, only his
 investors will be hurt. So why would any rational person work to find fault
 in what he is doing if they are not potential investors? Do these people
 not have a life they can use to actually make a contribution to society?
 Are examples of REAL fraud that has clearly harmed everyone not enough to
 get their interest?

 Ed

 On Jun 29, 2013, at 7:48 AM, Eric wrote:


 So I read this board all the time but have not posted as you guys are
 usually smarter than I am.

 However, I am an Electrical Engineer working with many other Electrical
 Engineers and the question of how easy would it be to add DC power to the
 AC lines was interesting enough that we discussed it.

 Here is our conclusion:

 Could it be done - Yes

 However it would be somewhat tricky and there would be at least one trick
 needed to hide it from the power analyzer.

 The simplest way would be the add a DC source in the neutral leg of the
 three phase before it exited the wall socket, better right at the three
 phase transformer.

 This would cause a DC current to flow in all phases that are connected.
 Since the third phase does not appear to be connected that would be two
 phases.

 The DC supply would be in series with the three phase AC so it would need
 to allow the AC to flow through it's output stage without trying the
 regulate the AC or overheating. This would not be any DC supply we are
 aware of except maybe a battery, and the issue with a battery would be that
 they have limited hours of charge and the amount of power needed to create
 a COP of 3 might be more than most batteries can supply without recharging.
 Adding a charger to maintain the battery charge would be similar to adding
 a DC power supply in that it could try to regulate the AC and it would have
 to pass some of the AC (the battery with a very low resistance would be in
 parallel so most of the AC would go through the battery) thus heating up.
 Also the battery would be passing AC current and heating up as well.
 However without running numbers on the power  current needed (too lazy I
 guess) how much heat is not known.

 So this could be done, though as stated this is not simple in a couple of
 ways.

 However, there is a much more interesting problem which would need to be
 overcome and which in my opinion rules out the concept of hiding DC power
 on the three phase AC, one which when it was pointed out to our skeptics of
 Rossi was not something they could determine a reasonable engineering work
 around to deal with.

 The problem is that it appears that Rossi is using a TRAIC current
 chopper to control the power in the control box. This can be seen in the
 very typical current waveform shown on the power analyzer in the appendix
 of the report issues by the

Re: [Vo]:Biberian book, with intro by Stan Pons

2013-06-29 Thread H Veeder

On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 7:15 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:

 See:

 http://www.infinite-energy.com/images/pdfs/BiberianBook.pdf






 quote Biberian defends his use of the term “cold fusion” when

others in the field have embraced more encompassing

acronyms (LENR, CMNS): “I use the word cold fusion

because this is what everybody knows. Using LENR or any

other acronym brings confusion. If you say to someone, ‘I do

LENR,’ he will not understand. Then you start explaining

what it is, and the person will say ‘Ah, you mean cold

fusion!’ So I go directly to what people understand. Actually

nobody really knows exactly what the mechanism is—just as

X-rays are still X, even though we now know that they are

photons.”

Harry

[Vo]:Voyager 1 Discovers Bizarre and Baffling Region at Edge of Solar System

2013-06-29 Thread H Veeder

Voyager 1 Discovers Bizarre and Baffling Region at Edge of Solar System

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/06/voyager-unexpected-region/

“The models that have been thought to predict what should happen are all
incorrect,” said physicist Stamatios Krimigis of the Johns Hopkins
University Applied Physics Laboratory, who is lead author of one of three
new papers on Voyager appearing in Science on June 27. “We essentially have
absolutely no reliable roadmap of what to expect at this point.”



Terra incognita
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_incognita

Harry

[Vo]:MFMP and phonon resonance temperature of Cu

2013-06-30 Thread H Veeder

Coincidental pressure drop or is Ni62 changing into Cu63 at the first
phonon resonance temperature of 489°C for Cu ?
Harry


http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-3/296-50-meters-of-constantan-in-one-cell

quote
UPDATE#2 - STUNNING GRAPH
So the reactor is now at the 1st phonon resonance temp of Cu63 (the target
element) as put forward by one of our followers in his freely published
document you can review here
http://www.human-resonance.org/Qi.pdf
He suggested his research showed that if we hit the 489 degrees C in
pressured hydrogen atmosphere, over time the Ni62 would become Cu63.
From the text:-
Precision heating of nickel powder to 489°C or 859°C resonance with copper
isotope Cu63 in the presence of pressurized H2 gas will target and maximize
conversion of nickel into stable copper. The nuclear fusion reaction that
produces excess heat can be specifically targeted by precision heating of
the reaction to 620°C or 966°C resonance with meta-stable copper isomer
Cu68m
Now just look at what is going on in the cell!

[see graph]

You might note that the 2nd resonance temp is ballpark the December rossi
temp where the cell melted down and the second is ballpark the 2nd COP 5.7
test... the 3rd test at a lower temp (in the range of our Celani
experiments) but much lower COP.

Re: [Vo]:A show of hands, whose going to ICCF-18?

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 4:48 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:

 MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote:


 I wish I was attending!!  L


 I wish they had enough money for a live video feed, but alas they don't.

 - Jed


I have no idea what the quality is like but this site has a free plan.

https://new.livestream.com/plans

Harry

Re: [Vo]:A show of hands, whose going to ICCF-18?

Did anyone consider getting a sponsor (such as National Instruments) to pay
for the streaming?
There must be a way for a sponsor to advertise in a streaming video player.

Harry


On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 5:27 PM, blaze spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote:

 I'd mirror it, definitely.


 On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 2:25 PM, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote:



 On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 4:48 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote:

 MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote:


 I wish I was attending!!  L


 I wish they had enough money for a live video feed, but alas they don't.

 - Jed


 I have no idea what the quality is like but this site has a free plan.

 https://new.livestream.com/plans

 Harry

[Vo]:Caveman Science Committee Concludes Fire Does Not Exist

Back in the caveman and cavewoman days, someone had the idea to try to
create fire artificially. They had seen the heat generated by forest fires
started by lightning, and they thought that fire would be just dandy to
create heat and light at night and to cook meat. They were tired of eating
raw meat. Since people had noticed heat was generated by rubbing sticks
together, some had the idea to rub them together faster and faster.
Eventually here and there people claimed they were able to start fires by
this method...

http://www.buildtheenterprise.org/caveman-science-committee-concludes-fire-does-not-exist

Harry

Re: [Vo]:A show of hands, whose going to ICCF-18?

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 8:06 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:

 H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote:


 Did anyone consider getting a sponsor (such as National Instruments) to
 pay for the streaming?


 Yes. The organizers have been going hat in hand to everyone they can think
 of, as have I.

 - Jed


a monkey might help

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93ZDOcU2TL4

Harry

Re: [Vo]:A show of hands, whose going to ICCF-18?

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 9:32 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:

 H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote:


 a monkey might help


 It wouldn't hurt.

 A monkey would feel at home in one of these conferences!

 - Jed


The monkey is definitely going.

Harry

Re: [Vo]:A show of hands, whose going to ICCF-18?

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 11:14 PM, blaze spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote:

 Kickstarter?  What's the cost?   Point an iPhone 5 at the speaker and
 you're done.

 Maybe bring a tripod.





An iPhone or an iPheun?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2IXL9gYCAo

Harry

[Vo]:David Cameron announces £1m prize for solving world's biggest problem

2013-07-02 Thread H Veeder

http://news.techworld.com/personal-tech/3452811/david-cameron-announces-1m-prize-for-solving-worlds-biggest-problem/

quote
The problem itself has not been defined yet, but Cameron said that he
wanted to “get the nation engaged on what the biggest problems are in
science and in our lives that we need to crack”. British cosmologist and
astrophysicist Martin Rees will run the exercise for identifying the
challenge.

Martin Rees will likely throw any submission related to CF in the garbage.

harry

Re: [Vo]:Atmospheric Vortex vs (and?) LENR

2013-07-04 Thread H Veeder

If machines can have artificial intelligence can they have artificial
stupidity?

harry


On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 3:02 AM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

 I said operational definitions are crucial to experiments and that's
 virtually by definition.  You, yourself, admitted it when you tried to
 escape from an operational definition of intelligence by using art as a
 proxy and then you went ahead and found yourself providing an operational
 definition of art.


 On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 10:57 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 8:41 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

 They are necessary so you can perform experiments.  If you don't like an
 operational definition then you need to say why.


 It seems like it is possible to make progress on a question like this
 without requiring a formal definition.  Perhaps a similar question to
 whether artificial intelligence is possible is whether computers can create
 art.  A well-conceived experiment might involve a panel of judges who use
 their experience and intuition, perhaps along with some guidelines, to
 judge submissions of art, who then try to decide whether the submissions
 were from from a person or from a computer.  A formal definition might seek
 to spell out exactly what art is so that we can tell with great assurance
 whether a computer has produced it.  But art is something that is hard to
 define, and many people produce very poor art.

 I remember reading about a contest where they had a person who served as
 a judge on one side of a terminal and either a computer or a person on the
 other, and the judge had to decide whether he or she was interacting with a
 computer.  This seems like a test and one that can sort out whether
 artificial intelligence has been achieved to a certain extent (the computer
 fools most of the judges over a period of trials), without weighing down
 the challenge with the need to spell out what intelligence is.

 Eric

Re: [Vo]:Mo wins

2013-07-04 Thread H Veeder

The problem with the explanation offered in the video is that it could
apply to a rope but ropes don't behave like that so the explanation is not
specific to the behaviour of the chain.

Harry


On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=6ukMId5fIi0

 ... not Mo of the 3 stooges, but the big Mo of momentum.

 Is it any wonder why perpmo inventors can fall into self-delusion so
 easily?

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

cold fusion can be distinguished from hot fusion by the three miracles

http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/Theories/TakahashiTheory.shtml#miracles

Harry


On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Robert Dorr rod...@comcast.net wrote:


 Ed and Axil,

 Maybe it would be nice if we could define Cold Fusion, LENR , as
 fusion at room temperature that only requires the addition of heat, below
 let's say 1000 degrees centigrade and possibly some pressure to start the
 fusion process. Any other type of fusion that requires a high energy
 process such as a high energy ion beam, that was used in the experiment
 being discussed here, would be considered a form of hot fusion. Just an
 thought.

 Bob

 At 09:15 AM 7/7/2013, you wrote:

 My point Axil, is that the authors have no idea what they are talking
 about. This confusion is common and results in a great deal of confusion
 about how cold fusion works. Unless this confusion is eliminated from
 discussion, no agreement is possible.  This paper simply adds to the
 confusion, which many other papers have done as well.

 Ed
 On Jul 7, 2013, at 10:08 AM, Axil Axil wrote:

 The paper says that the experimenters are claiming cold fusion. There is
 no mixing of fusion definitions involved in this paper to my understanding
 of it.


 On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com
 wrote:
  That is not a useful criteria because the Lawson criteria applies to a
 plasma and to a reaction that results in the hot fusion products, i.e.
 neutrons, tritium, etc. Cold fusion does not occur in plasma and results in
 helium without kinetic energy.  The reaction is defined as LENR only if the
 conditions and reaction products fit the conditions on which the definition
 is based. You are not free to change the definition to suit your personal
 beliefs.

 Ed



 On Jul 7, 2013, at 9:29 AM, Axil Axil wrote:

  I am drawing a distinction between hot fusion and LENR in terms of the
 Lawson criterion. Specifically, if a fusion reaction cannot be
 characterized in terms of plasma density, plasma confinement time and
 plasma temperature, then the reaction is LENR.


 On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hot fusion is a nuclear reaction in which two or more atomic nuclei
 collide at very high speed and join to form a new type of atomic nucleus of
 compressing matter to high temperatures at high densities as defined by the
 to the Lawson criterion,
 In nuclear fusion research, the Lawson criterion, first derived on fusion
 reactors (initially classified) by John D. Lawson in 1955 and published in
 1957, is an important general measure of a system that defines the
 conditions needed for a fusion reactor to reach ignition, that is, that the
 heating of the plasma by the products of the fusion reactions is sufficient
 to maintain the temperature of the plasma against all losses without
 external power input. As originally formulated the Lawson criterion gives a
 minimum required value for the product of the plasma (electron) density ne
 and the energy confinement time . Later analyses suggested that a more
 useful figure of merit is the triple product of density, confinement
 time, and plasma temperature T. The triple product also has a minimum
 required value, and the name Lawson criterion often refers to this
 inequality.
  You are consistent at least; you had the same mindset as demonstrated
 here when you described the LeClair experiment as some other type of hot
 fusion.
 The LeClair experiment is demonstrating a LENR reaction no matter what
 LeClair thinks is causing it.




 On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 10:27 AM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com
 wrote:
  If we cannot even agree about what the term LENR means or which
 phenomenon it describes, I see no hope in arriving at any common
 understanding. Please, can you make an effort to agree on some basic ideas
 so that the discussion can move forward? We are dealing with two different
 phenomenon. One uses high applied energy from various sources and the other
 requires no applied energy. One results in neutrons when deuterium is used,
 The other results in helium when deuterium is used. Can you at least
 acknowledge that these two different reactions occur?

 Ed

 On Jul 7, 2013, at 8:20 AM, Axil Axil wrote:

  It seems to me that the reaction mechanism of the experiment referenced
 in this thread is electrostatic in nature relating to high voltage
 causation of fusion.


 To draw a comparison, this is identical to the mechanism used in the
 Proton-21 experimental series.


 Since Proton-21 is considered a cold fusion or more properly termed a LENR
 experiment, so to this referenced experiment should be termed a LENR
 experiment.


 On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com
 wrote:
  This paper makes the common mistake of mixing hot- and cold-fusion.
 These are two separate and independent phenomenon. They are not related
 except both are nuclear reactions involving

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

Whether the realms of cold fusion and hot fusion are separated by an abyss
or are connected by transition zone like that which exists between
mountains and the prairies remains to be seen.

Harry

On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 3:02 PM, blaze spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote:

 Yeah that Soininen patent reported gamma radiation..

 On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 In LENR, sometimes gamma rays are produced.


 On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 2:59 PM, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote:

 cold fusion can be distinguished from hot fusion by the three miracles

 http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/Theories/TakahashiTheory.shtml#miracles

 Harry

Re: [Vo]:Bold attempt at OverUnity via gravity

So they want to use the Earth's rotation like a flywheel?

Harry




On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:

 Grimer seems to think it work:

 http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=112238#112238

 Grimer:

 Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:52 pmPost subject:   Another Claim to a
 Working Device

 *Grimer wrote:*
 *I think I am beginning to grasp one of the essential requirements for a
 gravity mill. *

 *One must have a closed path for the weights on one side of the main axle
 but no *
 *closed path on the other. *

 *In other words we must have at least two centres of motion for the
 weights. *

 *We probably need three but preventing structure as a whole moving
 relative *
 *to the earth will possibly give us the third.*

 LOL. It's all to do with the conservation of energy.

 Each energy derivative is conserved. The two familiar ones are of course
 the first and second derivatives, Momentum and Force x distance. We can
 think off these as velocity energy and acceleration energy. We could add
 conservation of heat within an insulated space as a third familiar
 conservation.

 But all derivatives must be conserved since we are talking in all cases of
 more and more complicated examples of the basic conservation, the
 conservation of momentum.

 So jerk is conserved, snap is conserved, crackle is conserved, pop is
 conserved and all higher as yet unnamed derivatives are also conserved.
 Heat covers a range of derivatives depending on the number of independent
 particle motions involved.

 To return to the subject in hand, if we have a simple closed path which
 weaves in and out towards a single axle centre then though we have plenty
 of change in acceleration towards the centre (jerk), the positive jerk on
 the one side is necessarily balanced by the negative jerk on the other and
 so there is no net gain in energy.

 However, if we have a major and a minor centre and we loop around the
 minor centre on one side but not on the other then we have more jerk energy
 on one side than the other. So we can use the jerk vector to unbalance the
 wheel - which is basically what Trevor is trying to do - and the Boys from
 Brazil as well for that matter.

 end quote

 Extensive discussion in this thread.

[Vo]:The first typewriters

That gravity motor from the Brazilian company looks like a giant
typewriter. ;-)

Some examples of the first typewriters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n1FDu2GZ8M

I suppose the Gutenberg press is a proto-typewriter.

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

I am not looking, but perhaps one should remain open to the possibility.

Harry


On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 3:20 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote:

 Perhaps by you. But this difference is clear to people who study the two
 mechanisms. I suggest you consider this view is correct and not waste time
 looking for a transition zone. :-)

 Ed
 On Jul 7, 2013, at 1:14 PM, H Veeder wrote:

 Whether the realms of cold fusion and hot fusion are separated by an abyss
 or are connected by transition zone like that which exists between
 mountains and the prairies remains to be seen.

 Harry

 On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 3:02 PM, blaze spinnaker 
 blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote:

 Yeah that Soininen patent reported gamma radiation..

 On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 In LENR, sometimes gamma rays are produced.


 On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 2:59 PM, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote:

 cold fusion can be distinguished from hot fusion by the three miracles

 http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/Theories/TakahashiTheory.shtml#miracles

 Harry

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 7:28 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 12:03 PM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.comwrote:

 However, clarifying it this way implies we have an appropriate definition
 of hot fusion that is amenable to distinguishing from cold fusion or
 LENR, or at least limiting its scope.


 Also, is it hot fusion if you get the normal dd branches with a beam of
 deuterons focused on a deuterated palladium thin foil, but with the energy
 of the beam at 300 eV instead of in the keV or MeV, i.e., with a greatly
 increased cross section (I presume)?  It seems like the dramatic increase
 in the cross section resulting from the palladium environment needs to be
 explained.  I am beginning to suspect that what we're calling cold fusion
 and hot fusion are not as distinct as one would like to make them.

 Eric


Which paper describes the use of 300 eV?

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Bold attempt at OverUnity via gravity

On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 9:55 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:



 On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 9:39 PM, leaking pen itsat...@gmail.com wrote:

 are crackle and pop really higher order derivatives of motion, or are you
 having some fun there?


 Did you read the reference:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jounce

 The notation [image: \vec s] (used in 
 [2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jounce#cite_note-MVisser1-2)
 is not to be confused with the displacement 
 vectorhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Displacement_vector commonly
 denoted similarly. Currently, there are no well-accepted designations for
 the derivatives of jounce. The fourth, fifth and sixth derivatives of
 position as a function of time are sometimes somewhat 
 facetiously[2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jounce#cite_note-MVisser1-2
 [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jounce#cite_note-PhysicsFAQ-3referred
 to as Snap, Crackle, and 
 Pophttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snap,_Crackle,_and_Pop
  respectively.



I propose seventh derivative be called Sneezy.

Harry

Re: [Vo]:John O'M Bockris dies

2013-07-09 Thread H Veeder

Bockris @ 2:50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN26SszEBZQ

Harry


On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 9:46 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote:

 Oh No… not another true scientist.

 ** **

 Infuriating does not describe the feeling that many who risked their
 careers will not be there to see this succeed and share in what they helped
 keep it alive when the multitudes tried to ‘pill the plug’ prematurely… **
 **

 ** **

 -Mark Iverson 

 ** **

 *From:* Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com]
 *Sent:* Monday, July 08, 2013 6:35 PM
 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
 *Subject:* [Vo]:John O'M Bockris dies

 ** **

 I regret to announce that John O'M Bockis died on July 7, 2013 after a
 brief illness. He was hospitalized last week. He stayed alert and in good
 spirits, and was able to say goodbye to his friends and relatives.

 ** **

 Here is a message from his assistant Trish Schulz:


 Dr. B has has some impact on all of our lives and he will be missed by
 many.   He was loved and cared for greatly by my family and we shall miss
 him.

 He had wished to be cremated and  there are plans for a Memorial Service
 in September.  Arrangements are still being made at the moment and may
 change.  Maureen will pass that information on as it becomes available. . .
 .

 Thank you all and God Bless,

 Trish Schulz – Friend and long time assistant to Dr. B

 ** **

 ** **

 - Jed

 ** **

[Vo]:OT: Typewriters in the news

Kremlin Turns Back To Typewriters To Avoid Security Leaks

A Russian state service in charge of safeguarding Kremlin communications is
looking to purchase an array of old-fashioned typewriters to prevent leaks
from computer hardware, sources said Thursday...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/11/kremlin-typewriters_n_3579184.html?utm_hp_ref=world


Harry

Re: [Vo]:DGT or ECAT? Same Process?

How many well known collisions produce outgoing particles who kinetic
energy is approx. 100  times that of the incoming particles?

Can it be compared with known collisions?

Harry


On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 1:40 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote:

 The fact that no (or few?) reactions are detected on the front side shows
 that
 the reaction is not a typical hot fusion reaction.


 If this is a reference to the Chambers experiment in 1990, it is an
 interesting detail that the particles were emitted from the backside of the
 Ti/D thin foil.  But I don't recall there being a detector on the front
 side of the foil, so I don't think much can be concluded about
 directionality of the reaction in that particular instance.

 Eric

Re: [Vo]:Mo wins

I think it might be related (in an oblique way) to the Kaye effect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrVlq2AgwyA

Harry


On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 12:59 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:

  ** **

 *From:* H Veeder 

 ** **

 The problem with the explanation offered in the video is that it could
 apply to a rope but ropes don't behave like that so the explanation is not
 specific to the behaviour of the chain.

  

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=6ukMId5fIi0

 

 ** **

 Wire could behave like the chain in the video, or maybe stiff rope. Think
 “slinky” … 

 ** **

 … you probably need a certain amount of stiffness to get a spring effect
 in the uncoiling. It is more than momentum. 

 ** **

 ** **

Re: [Vo]:Mo wins

Paper on the Kaye effect
http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0603183

Shear-thinning fluids exhibit surprisingly rich behaviour. One example is
the Kaye effect which occurs when a thin stream of a solution of
polyisobutylene in Decalin is poured into a dish of the fluid. As pouring
proceeds, a small stream of liquid occasionally leaps upward from the heap.
This surprising effect, which lasts only a second or so, is named after its
first observer A. Kaye, who could offer no explanation for this behaviour.
Later, Collyer and Fischer suggested from 250 frames per second cine
recordings that the fluid must be highly shear thinning as well as elastic
and 'pituitous'. In addition, they concluded that a rigid surface is
required to back the reflected liquid stream. While the words bouncing and
reflection are associated with non-continuous and elastic effects, we will
show here that the Kaye effect is in fact a continuous flow phenomenon. We
show that the Kaye effect works for many common fluids, including shampoos
and liquid soaps. We reveal its physical mechanism (formation, stability
and disruption) through high-speed imaging. The measurements are
interpreted with a simple theoretical model including only the shear
thinning behaviour of the liquid; elastic properties of the liquid play no
role. We show that the Kaye effect can be stable and that it can be
directed. We even demonstrate a stable Kaye effect on a thin soap film
excluding the necessity of a rigid backing surface.

Harry


On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 4:19 PM, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote:

 I think it might be related (in an oblique way) to the Kaye effect.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrVlq2AgwyA

 Harry


 On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 12:59 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:

  ** **

 *From:* H Veeder 

 ** **

 The problem with the explanation offered in the video is that it could
 apply to a rope but ropes don't behave like that so the explanation is not
 specific to the behaviour of the chain.

  

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=6ukMId5fIi0

 

 ** **

 Wire could behave like the chain in the video, or maybe stiff rope. Think
 “slinky” … 

 ** **

 … you probably need a certain amount of stiffness to get a spring effect
 in the uncoiling. It is more than momentum. 

 ** **

 ** **

Re: [Vo]:DGT or ECAT? Same Process?

On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 11:22 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote:

 In reply to  H Veeder's message of Thu, 11 Jul 2013 15:11:24 -0400:
 Hi,
 [snip]
 How many well known collisions produce outgoing particles who kinetic
 energy is approx. 100  times that of the incoming particles?
 
 Can it be compared with known collisions?
 
 Harry

 It can only happen when energy is released somehow. Presumably this (and
 the
 back side measurement) is why the authors thought it worth reporting in the
 first place.
 Regards,

 Robin van Spaandonk

 http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html


Yes.

If the energy incoming particles were focused to arrive at the same time at
the same place it might result in hot fusion as one sees in inertial
confinement fusion. However, since the apparent energy release stems
from incoming particles arriving in a stream it may be an anomalous nuclear
effect. (ANE - another name for CF ;-) )

Until an effort is made to detect particle emissions in every direction, I
don't think it is significant that high energy particles were detected
leaving the backside of the foil. In my mind the most
intriguing observation is the production of high energy particles.

However, I believe Ed Storms said he is going to explain this apparent
anomaly with conventional nuclear physics at ICCF 18 so we shouldn't get
excited that it is evidence of an anomalous nuclear effect.

Harry

Re: [Vo]:DGT or ECAT? Same Process?

On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 11:28 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 12:11 PM, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote:

 How many well known collisions produce outgoing particles who kinetic
 energy is approx. 100  times that of the incoming particles?

 Can it be compared with known collisions?


 It was closer to 15,000 times the original energy (5,000,000 eV / 350 eV),
 after having traversed ~1 um of titanium (or, possibly, some daughter
 particle resulting from a chain reaction of some kind that occurred closer
 to the exiting side of the foil).  The presence of the foil complicates
 things, because it's not clear how far the daughter had to travel through
 it.  The longer it had to travel, the more it would slow down, I think,
 especially if it was not initially aligned along an open pathway in the
 crystal structure.


Thanks for the clarification.  I knew it was large, but since I couldn't
immediately recall the figures I deliberately under estimated.


 The authors speculated that the mystery particle was tritium on the basis
 of the energy difference in the energy peak when the 200 V detecter bias
 was turned off (silicon surface-barrier detector spectra respond to changes
 in voltage, apparently).  The authors did not offer a possible reaction.

 Another possibility apart from a nuclear reaction was that background
 radiation was mistakenly associated with the incoming beam collisions.
  They only saw events in four of nine experiments, and the particles could
 have been cosmic rays or something similar.  Also interesting is the fact
 that there was an earlier experiment by a group in Germany with a very
 similar setup that I just read about, and they saw nothing that could not
 be explained by normal dd reaction cross sections.  But I don't think they
 saw anything above noise in the 300 eV range, and their foils were 3 um
 thick.




Assuming it is a real anomaly, it suggests a memory effect whereby each
incoming particle serves to nudge the nuclei closer together.

Harry



 Eric

Re: [Vo]:Why Cold Fusion Has to Die

2013-07-15 Thread H Veeder

X-Rated Fusion

XXX Fusion
Harry


On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 12:53 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote:

 Adrian Ashfield posted an apt comment at Forbes:

 I don’t see that calling it 'Anomalous Energy System (AES)' gets us much
 further as it won’t be anomalous once it’s understood.

 Yes! It is a bit like calling them x-rays where x means unknown.



 There are countless words with origins based on mistakes, such as
 American Indian.

 - Jed

Re: [Vo]:Why Cold Fusion Has to Die

2013-07-15 Thread H Veeder

X-Rated physics.

Not for prudes.

Harry


On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:06 PM, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote:

 X-Rated Fusion

 XXX Fusion
 Harry


 On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 12:53 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote:

 Adrian Ashfield posted an apt comment at Forbes:

 I don’t see that calling it 'Anomalous Energy System (AES)' gets us much
 further as it won’t be anomalous once it’s understood.

 Yes! It is a bit like calling them x-rays where x means unknown.



 There are countless words with origins based on mistakes, such as
 American Indian.

 - Jed

[Vo]:Bharat radiation

2013-07-15 Thread H Veeder

This is information about Bharat radiation was posted by
Dr. M.A. Padmanabha Rao on another list.

Bharat radiation is suppose to be radiation from radioisotopes which appear
to emit UV rays instead of Gamma rays.

Harry
--

 You may be interested in the following papers:
LATEST DISCOVERIES IN NUCLEAR AND X-RAY PHYSICS, ATOMIC
SPECTROSCOPY, AND SOLAR PHYSICS:
Discovery, Volume 4, Number 10, April 2013
http://www.discovery.org.in/PDF_Files/d_20130402.pdf

Source of these discoveries:
Padmanabha Rao MA,
UV dominant optical emission newly detected from radioisotopes and XRF
sources,
Braz. J. Phy., 40, no 1, 38-46,2010.
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttextpid=
S0103-973320117

JOURNAL OF INDIAN SCIENCE CONGRESS CITED
M.A. Padmanabha Rao’s Six Fundamental Physics Discoveries including the
discovery of Bharat Radiation.
P. K. Ray, Former Director, Bose Institute,
Ministry of Science and Technology, Kolkata cited in his article SCIENCE,
CULTURE AND DEVELOPMENT — A CONNECTED PHENOMENA, Everyman’s Science Vol.
XLVII
No. 4, Oct ’12 —Nov ’12. http://www.sciencecongress.
nic.in/html/pdf/e-book/oct-nov-2012.pdf

LATEST DISCOVERIES IN SOLAR PHYSICS IN 2013
1. M.A. Padmanabha Rao,
Discovery
of Sun’s Bharat Radiation emission causing Extreme Ultraviolet (EUV) and UV
dominant
optical
radiation,
IOSR Journal of Applied Physics (IOSR-JAP),
Volume 3, Issue 2 (Mar. - Apr. 2013), PP 56-60, http://www.
iosrjournals.org/iosr-jap/papers/Vol3-issue2/H0325660.pdf

2. M.A. Padmanabha Rao,
Discovery
of Self-Sustained 235-U Fission Causing Sunlight by Padmanabha Rao Effect,
IOSR Journal of Applied Physics (IOSR-JAP),
Volume 4, Issue 2 (Jul. - Aug. 2013), PP 06-24, http://www.
iosrjournals.org/iosr-jap/papers/Vol4-issue2/B0420624.pdf

EXCERPTS OF THE PAPER: Sunlight phenomenon being
one of the most complex phenomena in science evaded from previous
researchers. Understanding
the phenomenon needed advanced knowledge in the fields of nuclear physics,
X-ray physics, and atomic spectroscopy. A surprise finding, optical emission
detected from Rb XRF source in 1988 led to the discovery of a previously
unknown atomic phenomenon causing Bharat radiation emission followed by
optical
emission from radioisotopes and XRF sources reported in 2010 [10]. The same
phenomenon was found causing the Sunlight. However, it took nearly 25 years
of
research to reach the current level of understanding the Sunlight
phenomenon reported here.

BREAKTHROUGHS:
(1) On the basis of fusion, many solar lines
could not be identified previously and what causes these lines remained
puzzling. Though 11 solar lines could be identified by other researchers,
they
became questionable. The significant breakthrough has come when it became
possible now to identify as many as 153 lines on the basis of uranium
fission
taking place on Sun’s core surface. Surprisingly, the fission products
released
in Chernobyl reactor accident in 1986 also seem to be present in solar
flares.
(2) Explained what are Sun’s dark spots and
their cause.
(3) For the first time, it is shown what
constitutes Dark Matter and showed existence of Dark Matter in Sun.
(4) It is explained with unprecedented detail
how Bharat Radiation from fission products (radioisotopes) causes Sunlight
by
an atomic phenomenon known as Padmanabha Rao Effect.

What this 75-yr-old’s Story tells us About Discovery in India

Read more: http://forbesindia.com/blog/technology/what-this-75-
yr-olds-story-tells-us-about-discovery-in-india/#ixzz2ZAxRLHhk


M.A. Padmanabha Rao, PhD (AIIMS)
·   Former Professor of Medical Physics (2001), Himalayan
Institute of Medical Sciences, Swamy Rama Nagar, Uttarnchal
·   Former Deputy Director, Defence Laboratory,
Jodhpur , Rajasthan , India (1983-1997)
·   Former Lecturer, Department of Nuclear Medicine,
All India Institute of Medical Sciences, New Delhi, India (1964-1983)
·   Assembly Member, World Federation of Nuclear
Medicine and Biology, Tokyo , 1974
·   And Chaired an Instrument session during First
World Congress of Nuclear Medicine, Tokyo, 1974.

[Vo]:Defkalion webcast officially confirmed

2013-07-16 Thread H Veeder

Copied from  a facebook group.
Harry


Officially confirmed.

Roberta De Carolis (Tuesday, 16 July 2013 12:28).
The CEO of Defkalion Europe Franco Cappiello wrote to us:
There will be an official announcement of this technology during ICCF 18
(International Conference Cold Fusion 18) at the University of Missouri
(USA). For those interested you can see this webcast of all phases of the
experiment , ignition, performance and switching off. Two independent
scientists and two science journalists at international level will
participate in this broadcast, as well as a member of the Cicap. 

http://www.nextme.it/scienza/energia/6016-fusione-fredda-e-cat-defkalion-annuncio-fine-luglio

[Vo]:Cosmologist claims Universe may not be expanding

2013-07-17 Thread H Veeder

Cosmologist claims Universe may not be expanding

Particles' changing masses could explain why distant galaxies appear to be
rushing away.
http://www.nature.com/news/cosmologist-claims-universe-may-not-be-expanding-1.13379

harry

Re: [Vo]:Cosmologist claims Universe may not be expanding

2013-07-17 Thread H Veeder

On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 10:28 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 10:19 AM, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote:

 From the article:

 The idea [of increasing mass] may be plausible, but it comes with a big
 problem: it can't be tested. Mass is what’s known as a dimensional
 quantity, and can be measured only relative to something else.


 What I don't quite understand is why astrophysicists are comfortable
 placing confidence in the expanding universe hypothesis when it is
 epistemologically indistinguishable from this one (I take the article's
 word for it).  It seems like when two explanations are both
 indistinguishable and sensible, neither should be given preference.
  Perhaps they were simply unaware of the possibility.  I'm excluding
 explanations along the lines of invisible pink unicorns, which aren't
 really plausible.

 A third possible explanation for the redshift, I suspect, is that the mass
 of things is staying the same but the speed of light is changing over time.
  Another one might be that time is slowing down or speeding up (I'm not
 sure if this could account for the redshift).  I suppose you could have all
 four happening simultaneously -- expansion, change in mass, change in the
 rate at which time progresses and change in the speed of light.

 Eric

 I



I can't tell if the new mass is created ex-nihilo or if energy is
continually being converted into new mass. If
 the cosmology requires that the conservation of energy applies globally
then it implies energy of the universe is slowly being ingested by matter.

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Rossi: it is shared now and does not anymore depend only on me

2013-07-18 Thread H Veeder

On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 1:05 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

 Andrea Rossi
 July 11th, 2013 at 9:18 
 PMhttp://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=810cpage=4#comment-736400

 Dear Wladimir Guglinski:
 If you refer to our technology, it is shared now and does not anymore
 depend only on me. The E-Cat technology is undergoing rigorous testing and
 the results- positive, negative, or inconclusive- will provide further
 guidance about its potential.
 Warm Regards,
 A.R.


I wonder if this means the six month test by the authors of the third party
report has begun.

harry

Re: [Vo]:What Churchill knew in '32

2013-07-18 Thread H Veeder

http://www.azuremagazine.com/article/david-benjamin-and-the-future-of-architecture/


How we will one day grow our buildings
Some of the first applications of synthetic biology and architecture may
involve high-performance materials like carbon-sequestering concrete and
self-healing silicone.  But in the future, architects may be able to
program the DNA of a seed so that it grows into a building. Then, instead
of architects designing plans and sections, instead of bringing all of the
construction materials from the factory to the site, architects might be
able to design rules for growth and differentiation and material
performance.  And the new biological machine – the living building – might
beable to use the nutrients of the land and the natural ecosystem to do
both the factory manufacturing and the site construction.

Harry


On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:

 Here are some quotes from an essay by Winston Churchill, Fifty Years
 Hence published in 1932. This is in Churchill's book Thoughts and
 Adventures.

 This shows how widely known future prospects are. Clarke described many of
 these ideas in Profiles of the Future (1963), and I borrowed them again
 in Cold Fusion and the Future, as I said in the introduction.

 - Jed

 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 . . . Whereas formerly the utmost power that man could guide and control
 was a team of horses or a galleyful of slaves . . .  it is today already
 possible to control accurately from the bridge of a battle cruiser all the
 power of hundreds of thousands of men, or to set off with one finger a mine
 capable in an instant of destroying the work of thousands of man-years.
 These changes are due to the substitution of molecular energy for muscular
 energy, and its direction and control by an elaborate, beautifully
 perfected apparatus.

 There is no doubt that this evolution will continue at an increasing rate.
 We know enough to be sure that the scientific achievements of the next
 fifty years will be far greater, more rapid and more surprising, than those
 we have already experienced. . . . High authorities tell us that new
 sources of power, vastly more important than any we yet know, will surely
 be discovered. Nuclear energy is incomparably greater than the molecular
 energy which we use today. The coal a man can get in a day can easily do
 five hundred times as much work as the man himself. Nuclear energy is at
 least one million times more powerful still. If the hydrogen atoms in a
 pound of water could be prevailed upon to combine together and form helium,
 they would suffice to drive a thousand-horsepower engine for a whole year.
 . . . There is no question among scientists that this gigantic source of
 energy exists. What is lacking is the match to set the bonfire alight, or
 it may be the detonator to cause the dynamite to explode. The Scientists
 are looking for this.

 The discovery and control of such sources of power would cause changes in
 human affairs incomparably greater than those produced by the steam-engine
 four generations ago. Schemes of cosmic magnitude would become feasible.
 Geography and climate would obey our orders. Fifty thousand tons of water,
 the amount displaced by the Berengaria, would, if exploited as described,
 suffice to shift Ireland to the middle of the Atlantic. . . .
  Communications and transport by land, water and air would take
 unimaginable forms, if, as is in principle possible, we could make an
 engine of 600 horse-power, weighing 20 lb and carrying fuel for a thousand
 hours in a tank the size of a fountain-pen. Wireless telephones and
 television, following naturally upon their present path of development,
 would enable their owner to connect up with any room similarly installed,
 and hear and take part in the conversation as well as if he put his head in
 through the window. The congregation of men in cities would become
 superfluous. It would rarely be necessary to call in person on any but the
 most intimate friends, but if so, excessively rapid means of communication
 would be at hand. There would be no more object in living in the same city
 with one's neighbor than there is today in living with him in the same
 house. The cities and the countryside would become indistinguishable. Every
 home would have its garden and its glade.

 Up till recent times the production of food has been the prime struggle of
 man. That war is won. . . . But food is at present obtained almost entirely
 from the energy of the sunlight. The radiation from the sun produces from
 the carbonic acid in the air more or less complicated carbon compounds
 which give us our plants and vegetables. We use the latent chemical energy
 of these to keep our bodies warm; we convert it into muscular effort. We
 employ it in the complicated processes of digestion to repair and replace
 the wasted cells of our bodies. Many people, of course, prefer food in what
 the vegetarians call 'the

Re: [Vo]:From The Kiplinger's Letter, July 19, 2013 TECH section

2013-07-20 Thread H Veeder

On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 9:18 AM, Robert Dorr rod...@comcast.net wrote:


 I just thought of a new specification standard to express the printing
 capabilities of 3D printers,  PCPM  Pork Chops Per Minute. Oh boy,
 dinners calling.

 Bob



Hmmm...will future printers come with ovens?
Copy, scan, print and cook.

Harry

[Vo]:Defkalion video from last year

2013-07-21 Thread H Veeder

This is a Defkalion video from last year. I don't remember seeing it and
perhaps others missed it as well. The liquid cooling system is shown and
explained with a brief shot of the Hyperion unit itself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=KwZf89XLzNE

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion video from last year

2013-07-21 Thread H Veeder

On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 1:25 PM, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote:

 This is a Defkalion video from last year. I don't remember seeing it and
 perhaps others missed it as well. The liquid cooling system is shown and
 explained with a brief shot of the Hyperion unit itself.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=KwZf89XLzNE

 Harry



the caption below the video says:
_
In this video, representatives of Defkalion Green Technologies explains the
calorimetry setup for testing of its Hyperion cold fusion reactor. This
setup is explained to Michael A. Nelson, who has been employed for 30 years
as an engineer at NASA. However, Mr. Nelson did not visit the offices of
Defkalion.as an official representative of NASA but as a consultant hired
by Michael Melich of the New Energy Foundation. Melich is a senior
scientific advisor to the Pentagon, the U.S. Naval Research Laboratory, and
a professor at the Naval Postgraduate School. He has a PhD and specializes
in theoretical and applied physics.

See slide show LENR presentation by Michael A. Nelson given at NASA Glenn
Research Center on 09/22/2011 http://youtu.be/djBIWTsnwjY
__


Harry

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Green Technologies - Italian Demo

2013-07-22 Thread H Veeder

All the commentary was in Italian, but the guy with the microphone spoke
briefly in English and said tomorrow's demo will be in English and it is
scheduled to begin at 4pm in Italy (10am EST)

Harry


On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 8:42 AM, Charles Francis fran...@datacomm.chwrote:

 There’s recordings below in various parts – sound not working at first.***
 *

 ** **

 *From:* Daniel Rocha [mailto:danieldi...@gmail.com]
 *Sent:* 22 July 2013 14:26
 *To:* John Milstone
 *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Green Technologies - Italian Demo

 ** **

 It's offline...

 ** **

 2013/7/22 Charles Francis fran...@datacomm.ch

 http://new.livestream.com/triwu2/Defkalion-ita



 -Original Message-
 From: Craig [mailto:cchayniepub...@gmail.com]
 Sent: 22 July 2013 13:49
 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
 Subject: Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Green Technologies - Italian Demo

 Can you provide a link? I don't have the link to the demo.

 Craig

 On 07/22/2013 07:13 AM, Charles Francis wrote:
 
  Shows COP of  5
 
 
 

 



 

 ** **

 --
 Daniel Rocha - RJ

 danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Green Technologies - Italian Demo

2013-07-22 Thread H Veeder

I saw an input of 1.8kW and an output of 8kW. This gives a COP of 4.4
Harry


On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 10:24 PM, blaze spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote:

 I think I read 5 somewhere.

 1,6 kWe for 8 kWth

 You can watch the video.  they have some graphs in the background:

 http://new.livestream.com/triwu2/Defkalion-ita

 Personally, if you're an english speaker, I'd wait for tomorrow's video
 though for things like that.

 It'll be at:

 http://new.livestream.com/triwu2/Defkalion-US

 On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 6:05 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thanks for the correction, Akira.  So, where, exactly, are we to find the
 actual Coefficient of Performance attained by today's demonstration in
 Italy?

 Chapter and verse please.


 On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 7:42 PM, Akira Shirakawa 
 shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 2013-07-23 02:04, James Bowery wrote:

 That's not what the article says:
 http://it.ibtimes.com/**articles/53211/20130722/**
 fusione-fredda-defkalion-**video-streaming-presentazione.**htmhttp://it.ibtimes.com/articles/53211/20130722/fusione-fredda-defkalion-video-streaming-presentazione.htm

 It says a 4:1 ratio:


 Gamberale is talking about the notorious scientific paper by De Ninno et
 al. (ENEA), colloquially referred to as Rapporto 41 (Report #41, which
 Google translates to Ratio 41):

 http://www.fusione.enea.it/**pubblications/TR/2002/RT-2002-**41-FUS.pdfhttp://www.fusione.enea.it/pubblications/TR/2002/RT-2002-41-FUS.pdf

 Cheers,
 S.A.

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Green Technologies - Italian Demo

2013-07-22 Thread H Veeder

A COP can be calculated from this screen capture

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxxczzEYA5C5ajA3MndVbHd5NGM/edit?usp=sharing

which comes from the fourth video on this page
http://new.livestream.com/triwu2/Defkalion-ita


Harry


On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 10:24 PM, blaze spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote:

 I think I read 5 somewhere.

 1,6 kWe for 8 kWth

 You can watch the video.  they have some graphs in the background:

 http://new.livestream.com/triwu2/Defkalion-ita

 Personally, if you're an english speaker, I'd wait for tomorrow's video
 though for things like that.

 It'll be at:

 http://new.livestream.com/triwu2/Defkalion-US

 On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 6:05 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thanks for the correction, Akira.  So, where, exactly, are we to find
 the actual Coefficient of Performance attained by today's demonstration in
 Italy?

 Chapter and verse please.


 On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 7:42 PM, Akira Shirakawa 
 shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 2013-07-23 02:04, James Bowery wrote:

 That's not what the article says:
 http://it.ibtimes.com/**articles/53211/20130722/**
 fusione-fredda-defkalion-**video-streaming-presentazione.**htmhttp://it.ibtimes.com/articles/53211/20130722/fusione-fredda-defkalion-video-streaming-presentazione.htm

 It says a 4:1 ratio:


 Gamberale is talking about the notorious scientific paper by De Ninno
 et al. (ENEA), colloquially referred to as Rapporto 41 (Report #41,
 which Google translates to Ratio 41):

 http://www.fusione.enea.it/**pubblications/TR/2002/RT-2002-**41-FUS.pdfhttp://www.fusione.enea.it/pubblications/TR/2002/RT-2002-41-FUS.pdf

 Cheers,
 S.A.

Re: [Vo]:DGT Temperature Output Appears to Have a Problem

2013-07-23 Thread H Veeder

The presenter said near the beginning of today's demo that the the power
output calculations were not based on the enthalpy of steam although steam
is present.
He said it was their gift to the skeptics.

Harry


On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Craig cchayniepub...@gmail.com wrote:

 It does look to me like the COP is being measured as if the outflow was
 only water, which it can't be at that high temperature. Are my numbers
 correct? If so, then the COP is much higher.

 Heat = mass X specific heat  X temperature change =

 500g / minute X 1 calorie / gram X (140 - 25) = 57,500 calories / minute =

 57,500 calories / minute X 60 minutes = 3,450,000 calories / hour =

 3,450,000 calories / hour X 1.163E-6 kWh / calories =~ 4,000 kWh/h

 Craig

 On 07/23/2013 03:52 PM, Alan Fletcher wrote:
  See my Steam Calculator at http://tinyurl.com/def-1240
  I added the reported input temperature (ambient isn't used)
  COP -- Water : 3.8 Steam: 13.8

[Vo]:Debye temperature of Palladium

2013-07-24 Thread H Veeder

Since exceeding the Debye temperature of nickel appears to be necessary to
produce heat from Ni-H systems, I was wondering if the Debye temperature of
palladium must be exceeded too in Pd systems. I did a search for the Debye
of temperature of palladium and found this abstract from 1966:

http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PR/v146/i2/p463_1

C. A. Mackliethttp://publish.aps.org/search/field/author/C.%20A.%20Macklietand
A.
I. Schindlerhttp://publish.aps.org/search/field/author/A.%20I.%20Schindler
U. S. Naval Research Laboratory, Washington, D. C.

Received 31 January 1966; published in the issue dated June 1966

Specific-heat measurements in the 1.2 to 4.2°K range have been carried out
on four H-Pd specimens having H/Pd atomic ratios of 0.57, 0.70, 0.81, and
0.88. Corresponding values of γ (the electronic-specific-heat coefficient)
are 2.52, 1.38, 1.40, and 1.61 mJ/deg2 per g atom of palladium; values
of ΘD(the Debye temperature) are 282, 273, 276, and 267°K,
respectively. A
dynamic method of measurement was necessarily employed because of the
occurrence of an exothermic process in these alloys. The interpretation of
the data was complicated by the interstitial character of these alloys, but
the present results for the electronic specific heat appear to offer
unusually direct support for the usual simple band picture of Pd and H-Pd
alloys. Special care must be exercised in the interpretation of the Debye
temperatures in this case.





What is the  exothermic process in these alloys. Is it an anomalous heat
effect or expected chemical effect? Anyway you can see that the Debye
temperature of Pd is much lower than Nickel so it doesn't doesn't
require any prewarming if it is at room temperature.



harry



Harry

Re: [Vo]:Mats Lewan's comments on Defkalion reactor demo in Milan

2013-07-25 Thread H Veeder

On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 10:47 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote:

 Craig cchayniepub...@gmail.com wrote:


 No, what I mean is: Defkalion IS the group that replicated Rossi's work,
 from the ground up.


 Ah, I see.

 That is unclear. Rossi says they had no knowledge of his work so they
 could not have replicated. If that is true, they found an independent
 method of producing heat from the Ni-H nanoparticle system. We do not know
 whether this is a replication or some other method.

 I can't judge whether this is a replication because I do not know how
 either Rossi or Defkalion does what they do. These are trade secrets.

 In the open literature there are several claims of Ni-H such as Mills and
 Piantelli. Most recently, Mizuno replicated this, in the paper I presented
 here at ICCF18 in a poster session. (See the News at LENR-CANR.org.)
 Mizuno's results are on the same scale as Rossi's or Defkalions, normalized
 to the mass of nanoparticles. I doubt that Mizuno is using the same method
 as Rossi or Defkalion.


Any idea how much Mizuno's experiment cost?

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion/MFMP implications for electrolysis?

On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 11:24 AM, Jack Cole jcol...@gmail.com wrote:

 With the recent corresponding findings of both Defkalion and MFMP
 suggesting the temperature needs to be 179C to initiate the reaction, I am
 wondering if this may also have implications for electrolysis with nickel.

 Obviously, it would be difficult to run electrolysis at a power level high
 enough to heat the cathode to that temperature for very long (the water
 would boil off).  A pressurized electrolytic cell would seem to be an
 option.  Another option would be lateral cathode pulses of high power and
 relatively brief duration to bring the cathode temp above 179C, but avoid
 boiling off the water.  The trouble with this method may come in if the
 nickel needs to remain at 179C.

 This also has me wondering about two other things.

 1) Brillouin Energy's method of electrolysis would seem likely to elevate
 the cathode temperature 179C.  Could this be a factor in Godes' success?

 2) Electrolytic plasma experiments with tungsten -- is the cathode
 temperature a key element rather than the plasma?

 Best regards,
 Jack




maybe...the Debye temp. of tungsten is 400 K.

harry

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion/MFMP implications for electrolysis?

Here is some complementary information. This abstract says the Debye
temperature is higher when defects are present.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/pssa.2210090108/abstract

harry

On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 12:14 PM, DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:

notice you only need the 179 figure to get above the Debye temp. You can
get around that by alloying the Ni with Cu and even annealing.
http://books.google.com/books/about/The_Debye_Temperature_and_Hardness_of_Co.html?id=Rhd5NwAACAAJ

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/pssa.2210090108/abstract

I personally use both copper and gold in Ni to drop both the Debye temp
and the energy of vacancy formation. A rough rule of thumb is
that adding a softer lower melting point material to Ni or Pd is good. So
far, I have to keep my metals fcc.

Notice also that you can drop the energy of vacancy formation also by
having finer materials. If they are small enough (somewhere around 10nm)
the becomes little difference between the Ef for bulk and surface.
(normally, the surface Ef is lower than the bulk)

so.. I say all that to let you know that you can have
systems that work below 179 C. My demo at NI week will be operating at
80C.

note: the Cu added to Ni (also Pt) helps in the dissociation of the H

--
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 10:24:12 -0500
From: jcol...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:Defkalion/MFMP implications for electrolysis?

With the recent corresponding findings of both Defkalion and MFMP
suggesting the temperature needs to be 179C to initiate the reaction, I am
wondering if this may also have implications for electrolysis with nickel.

Obviously, it would be difficult to run electrolysis at a power level high
enough to heat the cathode to that temperature for very long (the water
would boil off). A pressurized electrolytic cell would seem to be an
option. Another option would be lateral cathode pulses of high power and
relatively brief duration to bring the cathode temp above 179C, but avoid
boiling off the water. The trouble with this method may come in if the
nickel needs to remain at 179C.

This also has me wondering about two other things.

1) Brillouin Energy's method of electrolysis would seem likely to elevate
the cathode temperature 179C. Could this be a factor in Godes' success?

2) Electrolytic plasma experiments with tungsten -- is the cathode
temperature a key element rather than the plasma?

Best regards,
Jack

Re: [Vo]:Debye of Pd

If being above the Debye temperature is one of the preconditions for excess
heat, then Pd systems don't need an application of heat if they are done at
room temperature (20C), since the Debye temperature of Pd is several
degrees lower than room temperature.

Harry


On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 7:47 AM, Frank Roarty froarty...@comcast.netwrote:

 Harry
 Didn't Arrata have heat with PD powder at room temp? Maybe anomalous heat
 is a function of transition thru Debye temp and those experiments
 extracting heat provide repeated opportunities to make this transition at a
 higher rate.
 Fran

[Vo]:MFMP on a possible independent report of DGT's Hyperion

From MFMP's facebook page.
Harry
---
We are very sorry for the hiatus in our communications - we have been
working in...credibly intensely to move this field forward on several
fronts - all we can say is that we think ICCF-18 was a watershed for this
emerging science with excellent new discoveries and significant new
evidence of excess heat from Takahashi and Defkalion (DGT) as well as
strong new science related to LENR revealed by Carpintieri (piezo/cold
fission) and Vysotski (creation of collimated laser light from metal
induced by cavitation shockwaves).

It was also a triumph for the Live Open Science approach that the MFMP is
pioneering with the help of its followers. So many attendees offered
equipment, IP and technology to our effort, frankly it will take us weeks
to come to terms with. A revolution is coming and you are at the head of
the field.

We must reserve special congratulations to DGT for their Live Open
Scientific demonstration which was engaging and inspiring - would would
like to see them and others taking this approach more frequently in the
future.

We have been told by a trusted source, whom we can not disclose, that there
will be an independent report of DGT Hyperion technology published at some
point. It is understood that some respected university professors have been
involved. We certainly hope this is true and that we can have some
detailed, rigorous analysis to support the promising live demonstrations of
recent days.
By: Martin Fleischmann Memorial
Projecthttps://www.facebook.com/MartinFleischmannMemorialProject?ref=stream

Re: [Vo]:Hungarian inventor George Egely claim achieving more than 1 kw excess heat from cold fusion reactor and iron as by product..

2013-07-28 Thread H Veeder

Did Egley ever do a chemical test for the presence of iron?
The main criticism of his work was that a magnetic test alone is very
weak evidence of transmutation.


Harry


On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 11:58 AM, blaze spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote:

 Graphite subjected to electric arcing shows magnetic properties when
 exposed to neodymium magnet.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElTEeucgBic

 On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 8:04 AM, David ledin
 mathematic.analy...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  In this video a modified and controlled magnetron (the device what you
 can
  find in your microwave oven) starts up the nuclear fusion. The initial
  materials are coal and lead pencil filling (graphite), the result is
  magnetically reactive iron. The sphere on the video is quartz-glass, the
  substance holding it is for insulation.
 
  The heat generated through the fusion is 1500-1800 degree Celsius
 (2700-3200
  Fahrenheit) and it is the multiple power of the input power.
 
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms411WCBEZk
 
 
  This is his website
 
  http://greentechinfo.eu/?q=content/about-george-egely
 
 
  Documentary about him
 
  https://vimeo.com/38731566
 
  https://vimeo.com/38730884
 
  https://vimeo.com/38730625
 
  https://vimeo.com/38728471
 
 
  Infinite Energy Magazine articles .
 
 
 http://greentechinfo.eu/sites/default/files/Nano-dust-InfiniteEnergy-article1.pdf
 
 http://greentechinfo.eu/sites/default/files/Fusion-by-Pseudo-Particles-Part1-InfiniteEnergy-article2.pdf

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion apparently ignored heat of vaporization

2013-07-30 Thread H Veeder

maybe the steam was just hot air?

*ducks*

harry


On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 6:07 PM, Craig cchayniepub...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 07/29/2013 05:52 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
  James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com mailto:jabow...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  There is no video of the steam output.
 
 
  Are you sure? Someone told me there is. Have your reviewed the full 8
  hours?
 

 I watched it all, and though I may have missed a moment or two, they did
 not show the steam output.

 Mats Lewan did observe that there was NO water in the steam during the
 hot part of the run.

 Craig

[Vo]:OT: Jack Shows Meg his Tesla Coil

2013-07-31 Thread H Veeder

Jack Shows Meg his Tesla Coil
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sL9bq3YmHJo

One of eleven short stories featuring actors drinking coffee and smoking
cigarettes from the film Coffee and Cigarettes (2003) by Jim Jarmusch.

harry

Re: [Vo]:Some comments by me at Mats Lewan blog

2013-08-01 Thread H Veeder

They have no *legal* obligation, but it is not unreasonable to say they are
ethically obligated.
Business is psychopathic.

Harry


On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:

 I wrote:


 I have spoken with some of the experts who went. They are under NDA so I
 cannot ask any specific questions, but they seemed unimpressed. Maybe the
 results have improved.


 To be a little more specific, they said it was inconclusive. Most
 experiments are inconclusive.



 Defkalion has made many claims and many promises in the past they did not
 fulfill. They did not break any laws by doing this, but they did hurt their
 own credibility.


 I put that too strongly. I should not say break laws. Of course they
 didn't. Mary Yugo said they have a lot of explaining to do because they
 made claims of 30 machines and tests by the Greek government and blah,
 blah. Okay, I'll say, a lot of explaining to do. A lot to answer for.
 Even that is silly because a private corporation has no obligation to
 explain things. They do not owe Mary Yugo or me any information about
 anything. Period.

 However, if they want credibility and good public relations they should
 watch what they say. They should try to follow through more often. Don't
 cry wolf! Don't casually throw out the claim that you tested nickel
 isotopes. You have to explain how and why, because many of us know that
 monoisotopic samples cost fantastic sums of money and Defkalion appears to
 be broke, so that is kind of suspicious. Instead of throwing this out, as
 if anyone can buy isotopes at Wall Mart, they should publish a brief report
 that starts off:

 In cooperation with XYZ lab we tested monoisotopic samples (Isoflex Inc.)
 ranging from 1 to 8 g. . . .

 I tend to dismiss their claims about their business because of their track
 record of blathering and not following through.

 - Jed

Re: [Vo]:Some comments by me at Mats Lewan blog

2013-08-01 Thread H Veeder

The harm is not they don't meet expectations. The harm is that they provide
no explanation whenever they fail to meet expectations.
Playing with people's emotions is not harmless game.
Harry



On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 3:56 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:

 H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote:

 They have no *legal* obligation, but it is not unreasonable to say they
 are ethically obligated.


 I don't see an ethical problem. What harm have they done? They made
 themselves look silly, that's all.

 If they had used exaggerated claims to defraud investors that would be an
 ethical problem. They have not done that as far as I know.

 The only unethical thing they have done that I am aware of is not paying
 the money they owe me. That's why I suspect they are broke. It isn't much
 and they'll probably pay eventually, but you can see why I don't hold them
 in high regard. It's tawdry. More bad public relations. Typical of a
 start-up business.

 - Jed

Re: [Vo]:Some comments by me at Mats Lewan blog

2013-08-01 Thread H Veeder





 On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 4:13 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote:

 Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote:

 They don't need to make public a promise of any kind.


 No, they don't. And they should not, because if they fail it is bad
 public relations.



Creating expectations which you fail to meet to _without explanation_ is
also bad public relations.

It is bad because they have insulted the public.


harry

Re: [Vo]:Some comments by me at Mats Lewan blog

On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 10:30 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 2:03 PM, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote:

  The harm is not they don't meet expectations. The harm is that they
 provide no explanation whenever they fail to meet expectations.
 Playing with people's emotions is not harmless game.


 Personally, I do not mind unguarded statements about what a company is
 going to deliver. If it turns out not to happen, I chalk that up to
 flamboyance, wishful thinking and trying to bring something about, almost
 as if by conjuring it up by saying it.



I don't care  about commericial claims either, however on two occasions
they have created expectations that independent assessments of their
technology were forthcoming by a certain date. The date passed and no
reports emerged and no explanation was given. Just silence.

harry



 My main objection is to anything that is relevant here is to the
 possibility of misdirection.  I kind of want to say that misdirection is a
 different beast than fraud.  Misdirection has overtones of manipulation,
 and fraud has clear legal and ethical implications.  And I don't say that
 Defkalion are guilty of misdirection.  I only say the possibility has
 occurred to me on more than one occasion for one reason or another.  The
 thought has occurred to me in connection with Rossi as well.  I'm reminded
 of the Wild West in the U.S., when people did all kinds of funny things, or
 of the wheelers and dealers in turn of the century New York City.  It's
 just a feeling that you have to keep your eyes open and not let yourself be
 hoodwinked.

 Commercial entities in the LENR space have control over how much they
 provoke this reaction in people.  In me, it has not yet caused me to wonder
 whether they have a process that is basically working, only whether a
 straight account of what they've learned has been given.  But for some
 other people that we know, it can turn a person into a full-on critic or an
 opponent.  This is the kind of thing that Feynman was probably reacting to
 with Papp, who we all know was a colorful character.  It is a reaction that
 is largely avoidable, and companies should consider taking steps to
 mitigate it by assuming observers are intelligent and will identify any
 gimmicks or shortcuts or weird details.

 Eric

Re: [Vo]:Some comments by me at Mats Lewan blog

On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 5:28 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:

 H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote:


 Creating expectations which you fail to meet to _without explanation_ is
 also bad public relations.

 It is bad because they have insulted the public.


 Yes, and yes. But Defkalion has only amateur status when it comes
 insulting the public and infuriating investors. Read a biography of Edison,
 Steve Jobs, Leland Stanford, or a 19th century Robber Baron and you will
 see how it is REALLY done, by a world-class maestro. Actually, I have to
 say, Rossi fits the classic mold better than the people at Defkalion.

 The thing is, if you want to do something that is close to impossible, and
 that will change the world and infuriate many powerful people, you have be
 ruthless and focused on yourself and your goals. You have to be a
 monomaniac with psychopathic tendencies. You have to put your mission ahead
 of all else in life. As Steve Jobs said shortly before he died, I have not
 been easy to live with. No indeed; his type never is.

 - Jed


Rest in turmoil Steve Jobs.

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Some comments by me at Mats Lewan blog

On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 2:39 AM, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote:



 On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 10:30 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 2:03 PM, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote:

  The harm is not they don't meet expectations. The harm is that they
 provide no explanation whenever they fail to meet expectations.
 Playing with people's emotions is not harmless game.


 Personally, I do not mind unguarded statements about what a company is
 going to deliver. If it turns out not to happen, I chalk that up to
 flamboyance, wishful thinking and trying to bring something about, almost
 as if by conjuring it up by saying it.



 I don't care  about commericial claims either, however on two occasions
 they have created expectations that independent assessments of their
 technology were forthcoming by a certain date. The date passed and no
 reports emerged and no explanation was given. Just silence.

 harry



That is not clear. I mean separates dates for each occasion.

In June 2011 we were told that the Greek Government would certify their
device by august 2011.  August 2011 came and went and they said nothing.

At the beginning of 2012 they let it be known that their device was being
independently assessed by several teams and the results of those tests
would be released by may 2012. May 2012 came and went and they said nothing.

Harry

Re: [Vo]:ICCF18 Kim Slides

Is Kim saying a cold fusion bomb is possible?

Look at slide 31
https://mospace.umsystem.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10355/36783/TheoreticalAnalysisReactionMechanisms.pdf?sequence=1

-

warning !
Instabilities may occur, if the deuterium density (pressure) is increased
too excessively for both cases of p + D and D +D reactions
-
Harry


On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:

 Tip :
 http://www.lenr-forum.com/showthread.php?2243-ICCF18-paper-by-Yeong-Kim-and-Defkalion-slides-are-publishedp=5626

 Page : https://mospace.umsystem.edu/xmlui/handle/10355/36783
 Slides :
 https://mospace.umsystem.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10355/36783/TheoreticalAnalysisReactionMechanisms.pdf?sequence=1

Re: [Vo]:Some comments by me at Mats Lewan blog

when and where did they clearly state this?

Harry


On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.comwrote:

 by the way, Defkalion clearly stated, with visible acrimony, that the
 Greek government put them administrative obstacles instead of helping
 them...

 maybe is it part of the story...




 2013/8/2 Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com


 Saying nothing is not the same as saying it did not happen or it happened
 in other ways you cannot imagine.


 2013/8/2 H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com


 That is not clear. I mean separates dates for each occasion.

 In June 2011 we were told that the Greek Government would certify their
 device by august 2011.  August 2011 came and went and they said nothing.

 At the beginning of 2012 they let it be known that their device was
 being independently assessed by several teams and the results of those
 tests would be released by may 2012. May 2012 came and went and they said
 nothing.

 Harry




 --
 Daniel Rocha - RJ
 danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:ICCF18 Kim Slides

Perhaps, what we need to worry about is about the miniaturization of
conventional explosives rather than the proliferation of thermonuclear
weapons.

Suppose a cold fusion bomb with the explosive power of the daisy cutter
could be carried in a backpack?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_upy14pesi4


On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 3:33 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 This is not a Defkalion factoid because they never use D.


 On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 3:29 AM, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote:

 Is Kim saying a cold fusion bomb is possible?

 Look at slide 31

 https://mospace.umsystem.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10355/36783/TheoreticalAnalysisReactionMechanisms.pdf?sequence=1

 -

 warning !
 Instabilities may occur, if the deuterium density (pressure) is increased
 too excessively for both cases of p + D and D +D reactions
 -
 Harry


 On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:

 Tip :
 http://www.lenr-forum.com/showthread.php?2243-ICCF18-paper-by-Yeong-Kim-and-Defkalion-slides-are-publishedp=5626

 Page : https://mospace.umsystem.edu/xmlui/handle/10355/36783
 Slides :
 https://mospace.umsystem.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10355/36783/TheoreticalAnalysisReactionMechanisms.pdf?sequence=1

Re: [Vo]:Some comments by me at Mats Lewan blog

I can imagine lots of things.
Are they afraid to explain because they fear people won't believe and/or
accept their explanation?
Harry


On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 11:48 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote:


 Saying nothing is not the same as saying it did not happen or it happened
 in other ways you cannot imagine.

 2013/8/2 H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com


 That is not clear. I mean separates dates for each occasion.

 In June 2011 we were told that the Greek Government would certify their
 device by august 2011.  August 2011 came and went and they said nothing.

 At the beginning of 2012 they let it be known that their device was being
 independently assessed by several teams and the results of those tests
 would be released by may 2012. May 2012 came and went and they said nothing.

 Harry




 --
 Daniel Rocha - RJ
 danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Some comments by me at Mats Lewan blog

Daniel are you a robot?


On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote:

 I see no reason to apologize anyone, these are tiny details that are in no
 way rude to anyone. They are vastly more clear than Rossi and have revealed
 way too much about their processes. If you don't pay attention, it's not
 anyone else's fault.

 --
 Daniel Rocha - RJ
 danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Some comments by me at Mats Lewan blog

what do you know that allows you to dismiss their rude behaviour as tiny
details?

harry



On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote:

 But I contradict you because I do know more than you do and I don't need
 to run a business to be sure of what I am talking about.


 2013/8/2 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com

 I have, so maybe you should stop contradicting me with supercilious
 know-it-all comments.

 - Jed




 --
 Daniel Rocha - RJ
 danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Some comments by me at Mats Lewan blog

On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 3:22 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
When you miss a deadline, or you screw up some other way, it never hurts
to explain and apologize. People forgive mistakes sooner than they forgive
rudeness.



I agree, except sometimes people have hard time acknowledging their own
transgressions because they fear the wrath of God or some social equivalent
of that wrath.

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Some comments by me at Mats Lewan blog

Any group which demands faith as a condition of participation is a cult.

Harry


On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 5:33 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 What Defkalion attempted to do was to instill faith in the LENR community.

 It is the same principle where the body of the Church recognizes actions
 that cannot be explained by natural laws, to inspire faith in the
 membership. When the blind see again, when the cripple walk, when the dead
 rise and walk again among us, the faithful believe no matter what is said
 against the faith. If there is no faith in your heart, there can be no
 belief. If there is no belief, there can be no Church.
 Our Church is weak and beset from all quarters. We do not need dissention
 in the membership.

 You are acting like a loathsome heretic in the face of a divine miracle,
 like a non-believer, like a devil worshiper, like Mary Yugo who wants to
 destroy the faith at every turn.

 Faith is beyond logic and reason, beyond proof and testing. It is the
 greatest achievement of the human heart; it is what makes the assent of man
 march inexorably forward..

 Do you require more evidence to bolster your faith like doubting Thomas, a
 skeptic in the faith who refused to believe without direct personal
 experience, to plunge his suspicious fingers deep into the gaping
 wounds piercing  the lifeless hands still flowing forth in the sacred blood
 as proof of the miracle that you so long hoped was possible?


 You are demonstrating a total lack of faith, a faith in a process that
 will not be understood until you have long passed from this veil of tears.
 Faith has its rules too. there is no middle ground,  in this matter. either
 you have the faith or you don’t; and you don’t and you probably never will.

Re: [Vo]:Some comments by me at Mats Lewan blog

yes that too.

harry


On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 5:51 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

 When the primary FUD about a situation is fraud, incompetence or delusion,
 the last thing you want to do is feed the FUD by hiding honest mistakes.


 On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 4:45 PM, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote:



 On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 3:22 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote:
 When you miss a deadline, or you screw up some other way, it never hurts
 to explain and apologize. People forgive mistakes sooner than they forgive
 rudeness.



 I agree, except sometimes people have hard time acknowledging their own
 transgressions because they fear the wrath of God or some social equivalent
 of that wrath.

 Harry

Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Some comments by me at Mats Lewan blog

On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 11:15 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 7:38 PM, blaze spinnaker 
 blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote:

 Well, we don't know how long it was actually at 1.6T

 Maybe that was a spike


 This is a good point.  It might have been a sharp transient that is seen
 intermittently.  I personally don't know much about the claim.  I see it is
 mentioned in Kim's and Hadjichristos's slides.  I'm inclined to think it
 might not be the reason for the thick shielding around the device, which is
 something that was mentioned a few days ago, if my memory serves me, as a
 protection for electronics.  Far more likely, it seems to me, the shielding
 is to protect humans from radiation.  If this is true, there are clear
 reasons to keep this piece of information on the down-low.

 That is not to say there is no magnetic field.  Perhaps there is, and
 perhaps there is a strong one.  All of this just underscores how little we
 actually know apart from what has been provided to us by parties with a
 horse in the game.

 Eric


You have to divide everything he says by 10. ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGEeLtqtNvU


Harry

Re: [Vo]:Some comments by me at Mats Lewan blog