Re: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)
I can see both sides. Since we haven't implemented the new policy yet, we may just charge the $29.99 site survey fee if they decline service after a successful site survey. We only charge $99 for installation and our CPE is provided on a free-to-use basis as we are competing against one other WISP, cable and DSL. Out of 10 site surveys, only 3 or 4 are successful due to the rolling terrain in our coverage area and we have (17) broadcast sites! Now if we were using 900Mhz, we could probably double our site survey success rate but fewer people would be interested because of the cost of the 900Mhz CPE which we would have to pass along to them in order for it to be feasible. In a perfect world, prospects should expect to pay for an onsite site survey because there are costs involved (labor and gas). Too bad we don't live in a perfect world. Hopefully unlicensed 700Mhz will become available in our lifetime and we can avoid site surveys altogether. I wonder though if it will be less costly than 900Mhz gear when/if that time does come? Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky Your Hometown Broadband Provider http://www.KyWiFi.com Call Us Today: 859.274.4033 === $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet $14.99 Home Phone Service $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV - No Phone Line Required for DSL - FREE Activation Equipment - Affordable Upfront Pricing - Locally Owned Operated - We Also Service Most Rural Areas === - Original Message - From: Justin Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:48 PM Subject: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC) I would not be happy about the $29.95 fee. If you can get away with it go right ahead. I look at it the customer is betting $29.95 that they can get service. I would rather have it here if they can get service, and they don't then they are charged $29.95. If they can't get service why should they have to pay $29.95? That would be like going to buy a new car. You want a Blue one with a stick shift. The dealer can't get you one, but they charge you $29.95 for looking. I think the word will spread pretty quickly. Customers are a weird beast. I can see the coffee shop conversations now: Joe:Yeah that company came out and did a site survey to see if they could get me wireless Bob How did that go? Joe The installer guy waived an antenna around and said he could not get me a signal Bob Too bad, so what now? Joe I don't know, but I got charged $29.95 for him coming out Bob What? They are supposed to come out next week. I don't want them charging me $29.95 if they can't hook me up. Just my .02 Justin -- Justin S. Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Access - WISP Consulting - Tower Climbing Web: http://www.mtin.net Web: http://www.jwilson.ws -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)
You are still going to need to do site surveys w/ 700. If you are in rolling terrain, the 700 is going to have the same problem with dirt as 900 c -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of KyWiFi LLC Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 2:07 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC) I can see both sides. Since we haven't implemented the new policy yet, we may just charge the $29.99 site survey fee if they decline service after a successful site survey. We only charge $99 for installation and our CPE is provided on a free-to-use basis as we are competing against one other WISP, cable and DSL. Out of 10 site surveys, only 3 or 4 are successful due to the rolling terrain in our coverage area and we have (17) broadcast sites! Now if we were using 900Mhz, we could probably double our site survey success rate but fewer people would be interested because of the cost of the 900Mhz CPE which we would have to pass along to them in order for it to be feasible. In a perfect world, prospects should expect to pay for an onsite site survey because there are costs involved (labor and gas). Too bad we don't live in a perfect world. Hopefully unlicensed 700Mhz will become available in our lifetime and we can avoid site surveys altogether. I wonder though if it will be less costly than 900Mhz gear when/if that time does come? Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky Your Hometown Broadband Provider http://www.KyWiFi.com Call Us Today: 859.274.4033 === $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet $14.99 Home Phone Service $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV - No Phone Line Required for DSL - FREE Activation Equipment - Affordable Upfront Pricing - Locally Owned Operated - We Also Service Most Rural Areas === - Original Message - From: Justin Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:48 PM Subject: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC) I would not be happy about the $29.95 fee. If you can get away with it go right ahead. I look at it the customer is betting $29.95 that they can get service. I would rather have it here if they can get service, and they don't then they are charged $29.95. If they can't get service why should they have to pay $29.95? That would be like going to buy a new car. You want a Blue one with a stick shift. The dealer can't get you one, but they charge you $29.95 for looking. I think the word will spread pretty quickly. Customers are a weird beast. I can see the coffee shop conversations now: Joe:Yeah that company came out and did a site survey to see if they could get me wireless Bob How did that go? Joe The installer guy waived an antenna around and said he could not get me a signal Bob Too bad, so what now? Joe I don't know, but I got charged $29.95 for him coming out Bob What? They are supposed to come out next week. I don't want them charging me $29.95 if they can't hook me up. Just my .02 Justin -- Justin S. Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Access - WISP Consulting - Tower Climbing Web: http://www.mtin.net Web: http://www.jwilson.ws -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.13.1/466 - Release Date: 10/7/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)
I can't see charging for a failed site survey, but we do turn down customers that we know that we cannot reach. If we fail 3 customers on Pebble Ridge Drive, then customer numbers 4 and 5 probably won't get a truck roll, but the HOA in the area might get a call to see if we can put in an AP on that street. If we can make something big and (not too) ugly work, we might call back all 5 customers, as well as their neighbors. pd KyWiFi LLC wrote: I can see both sides. Since we haven't implemented the new policy yet, we may just charge the $29.99 site survey fee if they decline service after a successful site survey. We only charge $99 for installation and our CPE is provided on a free-to-use basis as we are competing against one other WISP, cable and DSL. Out of 10 site surveys, only 3 or 4 are successful due to the rolling terrain in our coverage area and we have (17) broadcast sites! Now if we were using 900Mhz, we could probably double our site survey success rate but fewer people would be interested because of the cost of the 900Mhz CPE which we would have to pass along to them in order for it to be feasible. In a perfect world, prospects should expect to pay for an onsite site survey because there are costs involved (labor and gas). Too bad we don't live in a perfect world. Hopefully unlicensed 700Mhz will become available in our lifetime and we can avoid site surveys altogether. I wonder though if it will be less costly than 900Mhz gear when/if that time does come? Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky Your Hometown Broadband Provider http://www.KyWiFi.com Call Us Today: 859.274.4033 === $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet $14.99 Home Phone Service $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV - No Phone Line Required for DSL - FREE Activation Equipment - Affordable Upfront Pricing - Locally Owned Operated - We Also Service Most Rural Areas === - Original Message - From: Justin Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:48 PM Subject: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC) I would not be happy about the $29.95 fee. If you can get away with it go right ahead. I look at it the customer is betting $29.95 that they can get service. I would rather have it here if they can get service, and they don't then they are charged $29.95. If they can't get service why should they have to pay $29.95? That would be like going to buy a new car. You want a Blue one with a stick shift. The dealer can't get you one, but they charge you $29.95 for looking. I think the word will spread pretty quickly. Customers are a weird beast. I can see the coffee shop conversations now: Joe:Yeah that company came out and did a site survey to see if they could get me wireless Bob How did that go? Joe The installer guy waived an antenna around and said he could not get me a signal Bob Too bad, so what now? Joe I don't know, but I got charged $29.95 for him coming out Bob What? They are supposed to come out next week. I don't want them charging me $29.95 if they can't hook me up. Just my .02 Justin -- Justin S. Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Access - WISP Consulting - Tower Climbing Web: http://www.mtin.net Web: http://www.jwilson.ws -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Symbol Spectrum Software
Looking for the Symbol tech Spectrum analyzer Software. -- You have a Good Day now, Carl A Jeptha http://www.airnet.ca Office Phone: 905 349-2084 Office Hours: 9:00am - 5:00pm skype cajeptha -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Welding Cable For Grounding?
If you are using former ATT battery plant wiring, make sure of the connectors reliablity first... - Original Message - From: KyWiFi LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 2:07 PM Subject: [WISPA] Welding Cable For Grounding? Anyone used a welding cable for a tower ground? We have ran across a really good deal on 2 and 4 guage welding cable and would like to use it for grounding of our upcoming sites in place of the 2 guage copper wire we've been buying from Lowe's. It is composed of many very fine copper strands which makes it very easy to bend. Will the small copper strands perform the same as thicker strands or solid copper wire? Anyone have experience with using it or know if it will perform the same as other 2 and 4 guage wire types? Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky Your Hometown Broadband Provider http://www.KyWiFi.com Call Us Today: 859.274.4033 === $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet $14.99 Home Phone Service $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV - No Phone Line Required for DSL - FREE Activation Equipment - Affordable Upfront Pricing - Locally Owned Operated - We Also Service Most Rural Areas === -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)
It seems more likely that Blair is disqualifying his prospects before spending money on a site survey. One of the best sales skills is the ability to DQ prospects early - it saves the sales guy and the company time and money. If the site survey for the prospect comes back positive, what are the objections? Are you creating a response for each objection? How are you presenting the site survey results? Is it an enthusiastic delivery like The Irrestible Offer or is it flat? Wonderful! Right now you have a chance to get our broadband service. In just 2 days we will have you surfing the web on a safe, reliable and fast platform. - Peter RAD-INFO, Inc. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)
We will only do a site survey after we have a signed contract. I learned after my second one over five years ago... Husband call to see if we could provide them wireless service. Sent team out to verify. Once we verified that we could provide them service, husband responded 'well, I'll check with the wife and get back with you...' Since then, we require our contract to be signed before we attempt a site survey. If our survey is successful, we continue with the install as we have a signed contract. If our survey fails, there is no charge to the customer. We thank them for the opportunity and keep their information available in case we add a POP that may allow them to get service. - Cliff On 10/8/06 11:06 PM, Blair Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would not even consider charging for a site survey. Way too many possibilitys for bad press. I simply consider it a cost of doing business. Rarely do we have someone decline service if it can be done at our $199/$299 install rate. I have declines on the $799+ installs, but I expect those. Blair Davis West Michigan Wireless ISP Justin Wilson wrote: I would not be happy about the $29.95 fee. If you can get away with it go right ahead. I look at it the customer is betting $29.95 that they can get service. I would rather have it here if they can get service, and they don't then they are charged $29.95. If they can't get service why should they have to pay $29.95? That would be like going to buy a new car. You want a Blue one with a stick shift. The dealer can't get you one, but they charge you $29.95 for looking. I think the word will spread pretty quickly. Customers are a weird beast. I can see the coffee shop conversations now: Joe:Yeah that company came out and did a site survey to see if they could get me wireless Bob How did that go? Joe The installer guy waived an antenna around and said he could not get me a signal Bob Too bad, so what now? Joe I don't know, but I got charged $29.95 for him coming out Bob What? They are supposed to come out next week. I don't want them charging me $29.95 if they can't hook me up. Just my .02 Justin -- Justin S. Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Access - WISP Consulting - Tower Climbing Web: http://www.mtin.net Web: http://www.jwilson.ws -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Crown Castle / Global signal
The bigger problem is not costs. Its understandable that the spot goes to the higher bidder. The problem is the understanding of how to lease tower space when its for unlicensed spectrum apposed to licensed spectrum. The tower guys dominently license to license spectrum holders. To teach them what WISPs needs for use of Unlicensed on the tower, is a long educational process to the tower managers. In Unlicensed you need more than just the channel you are broadcasting on, to maintain future reliabilty and growth. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 12:43 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Crown Castle / Global signal Hi, The problem is that cell carriers (at least in my area) pay $500 - $2,000 per month to be on a tower... the same towers that I pay $100 - $250 per month. If you owned the towers, which customer would _you_ rather have? :( Travis Microserv D. Ryan Spott wrote: It seems we (people on this list) are always easily dismissed by large tower owners. These dismissals are often in the form of here, pay this $! fee up front to deal with us or who are you again? or my favorite and one that was told to me by an American Tower Rep: we don't deal with WISPs unless they are named Clearwire. Is WISPA (or Part-15 for that matter) doing anything to negotiate standard or discount leases with these tower owners? I am not a member of either organization but this sort of thing would definitely make me want to join up in a hurry. I also think that if tower owners were faced with an organized group of people they might cut though some of the BS we face when working out leases. Just a suggestion, ryan On Oct 7, 2006, at 9:06 PM, Blake Bowers wrote: Exactly. Crown is a nightmare if you are not a carrier, and they are doing the assimiliation. Smaller tower owners will continue to cater to the smaller companies, the WISPS, and continue to gain their business. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Crown Castle / Global signal How do you figure? Crown Castle is a nightmare to work with, and Global Signal has worked well with WISPS. I hope Crown Castle takes Global Signal's good sense with the purchase. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.13.0/465 - Release Date: 10/6/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] lightning
lol, I always do that at the radio end. Maybe because I wad it up, not coil it up? Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Jenco Wireless To: WISPA General List Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning Good point - also,I forgot to mention the other reason I lost so many CPE's - don't leave a big roll if extra cable - that lowers the impedance. On 10/8/06, Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I use ferrite beads for the same reason.Sometimes I use 2; one at theradio and one right before the cables enter the house.DO NOT put them on a ground wire since that's where you want the lightning's current togo.Because its current has such a fast rise and fall time, lightningbehaves like ac or rf.That's why ground wires are supposed to be as straight as possible, and if you have to bend it, you should make theradius of the bend as large as you can.A tight bend acts as a coil(increased impedance) and will cause the lightning to look for a betterpath.Ferrite beads do the same thing.By putting a ferrite on thecables, you still let your signals through, but it looks less invitingfor the lightning.JasonJenco Wireless wrote: Contrary to popular belief, lightning likes to follow the path of least inductance.Inductance is the resistance to a change in current flow.All I can say is that they have worked for me. On 10/7/06, *Dylan Oliver* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/7/06, *Jenco Wireless* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://pdfcatalog.digikey.com/T063/1150.pdf#search=%22digikey%20240-2318-nd%22 http://pdfcatalog.digikey.com/T063/1150.pdf#search=%22digikey%20240-2318-nd%22 I use the 240-2318-ND (towards the bottom of the page).Just wrap the Ethernet cable through it as many times as possible. You have to purchase 100 to get that low, low price I mentioned :-).We are located in Ohio. Sounds like this is more for reducing EMI .. how do you figure it protects from lightning damage? Best, -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/--WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)
We have the same policy as this, but without the contract. Had the same problem, usually the husband 'checking with the wife'. I tell people that we come out to install service. The first part of the installation is a signal test. If it is successful, then we continue installing service and settle up for the installation fee of $199 when we're done. If it is NOT successful, we pack up and go away and they don't owe us anything. It's easy for people to agree to this if they want the service. If they are the type that doesn't know what they want, they don't waste our time. This solution works great because people know that if we get a good signal, they're going to receive our service and pay when we're done. I think it works well because it's more of an impulsive thing, because we're there and they feel committed. If we did the site survey then had to come back to install, there is time for second thoughts and I imagine a number of successful site surveys would not turn into customers. The signed contract and/or down payment would eliminate/discourage this. The problem I have now is that we now want to pay a contractor for installations, but I don't want to pay for alot of failed installations. If I had my way, all installations would be 100% positive. I don't want the contractor going out on site and not receiving payment, either...that would make for a bad relationship between us and the contractor. Perhaps a solution for us would be to have a contract and/or down payment and do the site surveys ourselves. This would save us the time needed to do the installations, and would solve my problem of not wanting to pay for unsuccessful site surveys. That seems like a good next step for us. Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax - Original Message - From: Cliff Leboeuf [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 8:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC) We will only do a site survey after we have a signed contract. I learned after my second one over five years ago... Husband call to see if we could provide them wireless service. Sent team out to verify. Once we verified that we could provide them service, husband responded 'well, I'll check with the wife and get back with you...' Since then, we require our contract to be signed before we attempt a site survey. If our survey is successful, we continue with the install as we have a signed contract. If our survey fails, there is no charge to the customer. We thank them for the opportunity and keep their information available in case we add a POP that may allow them to get service. - Cliff On 10/8/06 11:06 PM, Blair Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would not even consider charging for a site survey. Way too many possibilitys for bad press. I simply consider it a cost of doing business. Rarely do we have someone decline service if it can be done at our $199/$299 install rate. I have declines on the $799+ installs, but I expect those. Blair Davis West Michigan Wireless ISP Justin Wilson wrote: I would not be happy about the $29.95 fee. If you can get away with it go right ahead. I look at it the customer is betting $29.95 that they can get service. I would rather have it here if they can get service, and they don't then they are charged $29.95. If they can't get service why should they have to pay $29.95? That would be like going to buy a new car. You want a Blue one with a stick shift. The dealer can't get you one, but they charge you $29.95 for looking. I think the word will spread pretty quickly. Customers are a weird beast. I can see the coffee shop conversations now: Joe:Yeah that company came out and did a site survey to see if they could get me wireless Bob How did that go? Joe The installer guy waived an antenna around and said he could not get me a signal Bob Too bad, so what now? Joe I don't know, but I got charged $29.95 for him coming out Bob What? They are supposed to come out next week. I don't want them charging me $29.95 if they can't hook me up. Just my .02 Justin -- Justin S. Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Access - WISP Consulting - Tower Climbing Web: http://www.mtin.net Web: http://www.jwilson.ws -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Crown Castle / Global signal
Thats an interesting concept, as long as there are other local tower companies in your markets. Remember GSignal, rolled up a number of tower companies into them a while back to. A lot of preferred tier 1 realestate will be owned by Crown now. The disadvantage is that the large telcos get Master Agreements, and before you know a company like Sprint or Verizon overnight takes over your market by signing one agreement, excellerating their time to market. It also allows them to make a deal where their is less risk for them that their model will be compromised by a provider on the tower across the street, because the tower across the street was just rolled up. I agree that this move will encourage the smalelr tower companies to work with WISPs. And someone can always see a silver lining if they look for it. I'm jsut argueing that the prefered goal might have been to want the bigger companies to be more WISP friendly. I just hope that some of GSignal's personel goes with the assets, or Crown learns from GSignal in the aquisition. This doesn't have to be a bad thing, Crown could be trying to be a better company, and costs sometimes can go down if they get all teh business instead of jsut have of it. What tower the business is actually on is irrelevant. It also might be worthy to note that Michael Anderson, had discussed good experiences several years ago, working with Crown to be mroe WISP friendly. And the reasoning they weren;t WISP friendly wasn't intentional, they just didn't really understand the market yet, and as a big company had a lot of reps that didn't understand it either. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Blake Bowers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 12:06 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Crown Castle / Global signal Exactly. Crown is a nightmare if you are not a carrier, and they are doing the assimiliation. Smaller tower owners will continue to cater to the smaller companies, the WISPS, and continue to gain their business. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Crown Castle / Global signal How do you figure? Crown Castle is a nightmare to work with, and Global Signal has worked well with WISPS. I hope Crown Castle takes Global Signal's good sense with the purchase. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.13.0/465 - Release Date: 10/6/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] lightning
We don't run filters on much of anything. We almost never have cpe get blown. What kind of gear are you using? Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: KyWiFi LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 12:53 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning Lightning is by far the largest threat to our WISP. It would be interesting to know the typical CPE failure rate (due to lightning) experienced by WISP's. I know that we'll replace 10% (+/- 5%) this year due to lightning. We use the $30 Citel brand Cat5 surge protectors on both ends of the outdoor shielded Cat5 and we also ground the mounting arm to an approved earth ground via 10 guage copper wire. I don't believe we've taken any direct strikes, mainly blown Ethernet ports on the CPE or AP. IMO, owning a WISP would be a LOT less stressful if wireless gear was not so prone to damage caused by lightning. BTW, if you would like to share your own CPE-lightning-failure-rates with the list, please do so. Same goes for lightning protection tips, tricks and wisdom. Anyone using coaxial surge protection on 50% or more of your CPE installations? If so, would you say that it is worth the extra $15 - $20 per install? How do your failure rates with coaxial surge protection compare with installations where there is none? Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky Your Hometown Broadband Provider http://www.KyWiFi.com Call Us Today: 859.274.4033 === $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet $14.99 Home Phone Service $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV - No Phone Line Required for DSL - FREE Activation Equipment - Affordable Upfront Pricing - Locally Owned Operated - We Also Service Most Rural Areas === - Original Message - From: Brent Hegerfeld [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 5:06 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] lightning Lightning has not been very kind to us the past few months. Knocked a backhaul out on our main tower, another tower hit 3 times (twice in 1 week), another tower hit this past week, going on 10+ CPE's. I'm told the probability of lightning over the next 4 months is low. Let's hope. Brent Hegerfeld East Allen High Speed Internet, LLC. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KyWiFi LLC Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning We offer an optional $4.99 Equipment Protection Plan for residential subscribers and it's $9.99 for Commercial and Non-Profit accounts. If they wish to waive it, they must furnish us with documentation from their insurance agency stating that it will be covered. No exceptions. As a result, approx. 95% of our subscribers purchase our EPP. The added revenue allows us to cover the cost of CPE that gets taken out by lightning and the associated service call fees we incur. Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky Your Hometown Broadband Provider http://www.KyWiFi.com Call Us Today: 859.274.4033 === $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet $14.99 Home Phone Service $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV - No Phone Line Required for DSL - FREE Activation Equipment - Affordable Upfront Pricing - Locally Owned Operated - We Also Service Most Rural Areas === - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] lightning If it's your equipment and the customer didn't damage it (hit it with a rock etc.) then it's your problem to deal with. The cheaper the gear, usually the easier it is to break :-). I've had much less trouble this year with cpe from Tranzeo than from any other brand I've used. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: chris cooper To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 7:55 AM Subject: [WISPA] lightning We had the lightning storm of the century here 2 days ago. It was an awesome spectacle to witness. It was a much more distressing spectacle to watch our network map begin to blink red all over the place. Which leads me to a couple of questions: How do you handle customer installations that get fried?
[WISPA] Test - Please Ignore
test -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Re: Crown Castle / Global signal
If you don't know what it costs, then it means you aren't experienced enough to understand why they don't just give you a cost upfront, or two young a company to be financial secure to do business with, and if you are worried about it, then you probably don;t have the budget to pay for it, in their mind. What ends up happening is its the sales guy, who writes you off, not necessarilly the tower company. Sometimes they won't call you back for MONTHS, until he has nothing else to do that day! The way to get around that, is to start out with the first relationship paying significantly, so you can establish a relationship with someone. Once you have their ear, and made a commitment, you can start negotiating. You should start out by asking someone else in the industry what they are paying for the space, and going in, with that understanding working with them. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Justin Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 1:03 AM Subject: [WISPA] Re: Crown Castle / Global signal I can't even get a ballpark price on some of their towers. I would like to know if I am wasting my time (and theirs). I have 3 towers in mind I would like to get on of theirs. Justin -- Life is unfair, but root password Helps --- Justin S. Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] CCNA - A+ - CCNT - TAT - ACSA - MTIN.NET Wireless - WISP Consulting - Tower Climbing AOLIM: j2sw WEB: http://www.mtin.net Phone: 765.762.2851 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.13.0/465 - Release Date: 10/6/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Crown Castle / Global signal
Not sure where this is coming from. As a tower owner, these are the concerns we have with leasing space to WISPS. 1. Is the WISP going to be around next month. 2. Who is the WISP going to use for install? 3. What eqipment is going on the tower. Any freqency specific stuff is normally covered by our first in, last out clause. If we add a customer to the tower that causes inteference to an existing customer, they need to fix the problem, otherwise, find another tower. Simple - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Crown Castle / Global signal The bigger problem is not costs. Its understandable that the spot goes to the higher bidder. The problem is the understanding of how to lease tower space when its for unlicensed spectrum apposed to licensed spectrum. The tower guys dominently license to license spectrum holders. To teach them what WISPs needs for use of Unlicensed on the tower, is a long educational process to the tower managers. In Unlicensed you need more than just the channel you are broadcasting on, to maintain future reliabilty and growth. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 12:43 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Crown Castle / Global signal Hi, The problem is that cell carriers (at least in my area) pay $500 - $2,000 per month to be on a tower... the same towers that I pay $100 - $250 per month. If you owned the towers, which customer would _you_ rather have? :( Travis Microserv D. Ryan Spott wrote: It seems we (people on this list) are always easily dismissed by large tower owners. These dismissals are often in the form of here, pay this $! fee up front to deal with us or who are you again? or my favorite and one that was told to me by an American Tower Rep: we don't deal with WISPs unless they are named Clearwire. Is WISPA (or Part-15 for that matter) doing anything to negotiate standard or discount leases with these tower owners? I am not a member of either organization but this sort of thing would definitely make me want to join up in a hurry. I also think that if tower owners were faced with an organized group of people they might cut though some of the BS we face when working out leases. Just a suggestion, ryan On Oct 7, 2006, at 9:06 PM, Blake Bowers wrote: Exactly. Crown is a nightmare if you are not a carrier, and they are doing the assimiliation. Smaller tower owners will continue to cater to the smaller companies, the WISPS, and continue to gain their business. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Crown Castle / Global signal How do you figure? Crown Castle is a nightmare to work with, and Global Signal has worked well with WISPS. I hope Crown Castle takes Global Signal's good sense with the purchase. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.13.0/465 - Release Date: 10/6/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Re: a bill that could have a significant impact on your members....
That would be nice. If funds were available for the average Joe. Instead of yet another program that, by default, only benefits the big players. Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Jim Snider To: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Cc: Harold Feld Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 11:39 AM Subject: a bill that could have a significant impact on your members Marlon-- This bill could have a significant impact on your members. Ifyou haven't already done so, I'd look at the wording. --Jim Legislation seeks rural broadband Business First of Buffalo - 12:13 PM EDT Thursday Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton has introduced legislation designed to expand broadband access in rural communities. The Rural Broadband Initiative Act of 2006 creates a policy and action framework for the federal government to introduce an effective and comprehensive strategy to deploy broadband service and access in rural areas of the United States. According to government estimates, about 30 percent of households in urban and suburban areas have access to broadband, compared to 17 percent of rural households. In a press release about the legislation, Clinton said: "The Rural Broadband Initiative Act recognizes the special economic needs of rural communities and ensures that the government plays a helpful role in furthering economic development by increasing broadband connectivity in rural areas." The bill would establish an Office of Rural Broadband Initiatives at the Department of Agriculture and create an Undersecretary for Rural Broadband to be charged with coordinating several rural broadband grant and loan programs aimed at encouraging broadband infrastructure investment in underserved rural areas. Programs would include a streamlined and improved Rural Broadband Access and Loan Guarantee program, which has been criticized for being too cumbersome and having qualification criteria too stringent to benefit the small, innovative telecommunications companies willing to invest in rural areas. It would also establish a Rural Broadband Innovation Fund to invest in experimental and cutting edge applications that can deliver broadband service to rural areas including satellite, fiber, WiFi, and broadband over power lines (BPL). It would also establish a Rural Broadband Advisory Panel, including members of the public and private sector. J.H. Snider, Ph.D.Research Director, Wireless Future ProgramNew America Foundation 1630 Connecticut Ave., NW Washington, DC 20009 Phone: 202/986-2700 Fax: 202/986-3696 Web: www.newamerica.net E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]My Book Website:speaksoftly.jhsnider.netMy Personal Blogs: jhsnider.net/telecompolicy, jhsnider.net/citizensassembly -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Nuvio Down?
Anyone able to get to the Nuvio website? Phones are down too...sigh Thanks, Brad -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Power Supply Isolation
With all the damage around here due to the storms last week, I am re-evaluating my tower cabinets, etc. One thing I just realized in looking at power supplies is all of my DC power is ungrounded. That is, I use 2-prong plugs for the primary and then send DC to the radio/router/switch. Has anyone tried connecting the negative side of the DC power to ground? If so, did it make any difference? Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Crown Castle / Global signal
Blake, First, I did not realize you were a tower leasor guy :-) Yes, I agree your first three comments are the most relevant to tower leasors. But my post was not about what was important to tower companies, it was about what was important to the WISP leasee using unlicensed spectrum, which is different than the need of tenants that use licensed spectrum. License Spectrum has predictabilty and upfront defined needs. Unlicensed needs flexibilty. Licensed has plenty of time for planning and change. Unlicensed requires immediate (timely) response to adapt. Tower companies generally do not move fast, and they typcally do not sign contracts with out limits set on what will get deployed. WISPS need contracts for gear that would potentially be installed but could have various substitutions. Tower companies are used to Telcos that know exactly what they needs based on the template used at 1000s of other towers. When I lease, I want to buy the right to the whole spectrum range, with exclusive use of it, which I eventually get, or I do not use the tower. Tower companies are typically very sceptical about doing a lease of that type that will limit themselves in future transactions, or their abilty to get re-use out of the spectrum to maximize their revenue opportunities. When I lease, I build as I go, becaue their is a finite amount of spectrum, and I don't know where my clients will end up being located and what type of link will be needed, until after the fact. So I might throw up a couple APs initially, but that will vary over time as required to deliver the product my subscribers demand. Tower companies on the other hand tend to want an equipment list in advance of the agreement, but the equipment list doesn;t exist at the time the lease needs to be signed because the customers aren;t had yet, because the tower rights have not been secured yet. So What has to happen is a lease needs to be signed based on spectrum that needs to be used, and/or broad generic description of gear. Any freqency specific stuff is normally covered by our first in, last out clause. Thats great, as long as you are willing to grant first in access, based on what is contracted that would eventually be installed by the individual that bought the right. How do you measure non-interference if one's gear is not yet installed? If we add a customer to the tower that causes inteference to an existing customer, they need to fix the problem, otherwise, find another tower. Yes, but thats not good enough, the damage is already done once the interference occurs. A WISPs wants more certainty that best practices will be taken that will improve changes that interference will be avoided. For example if I own 5.8 rights, not allowing someone to try 5.8G prevents the interference from happening in the first place. Without exclusivity, one can not determine what interference would happen in the future when channels need moving around or power increased, because environmental noise forces channels changes on sectors. Typical Non-Interferemce clauses were generally written with static noise conditions in mind, not constant changing conditions. What it boils down to is that a tower owner needs to either accept that they are better off leasing to only one leeasee from the tower per band, and then its real easy for everyone, or have a specific plan or agreement between all parties, how the multiple providers will co-exist. For example, on the one or two cases where we were not given exclusivity or could not afford to buy it because it was not needed, we've added clauses such that tower owner was required to notify us of any co-tenants that were going to deploy in our channel range. We've had cases were we've lost customers because we thought we had noise we could do nothing about, thinking it was in the environment since no one else supposedly was on our tower, but then learned months later it was a co-located tenant stomping on us. These are some of the issues that I was referring to. I have no idea how your company works, and what policies you have, but my guess is that if you are a smaller tower company, you's probably do do a better job, just because you's be less likely to be limited by generic policies, and willing to take the time to work out a agreement to meet the tenant's need. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Blake Bowers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 1:39 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Crown Castle / Global signal Not sure where this is coming from. As a tower owner, these are the concerns we have with leasing space to WISPS. 1. Is the WISP going to be around next month. 2. Who is the WISP going to use for install? 3. What eqipment is going on the tower. Any freqency specific stuff is normally covered by our first in, last out
RE: [WISPA] Nuvio Down?
Yep, the Nuvio email is time stamped 2:47pm. Mine is time stamped 2:41pm. grin I don't think it was some of our systems as they claim. Looked more like a complete meltdown to me. As of 4:24pm their website is still down... Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mac Dearman Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 3:27 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Nuvio Down? You didn't get an email from them?? Nuvio is currently experiencing some database issues that are affecting some of our call systems and some of our websites. We are working quickly to fix these issues. We will follow this up with more updates shortly. Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 2:41 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Nuvio Down? Anyone able to get to the Nuvio website? Phones are down too...sigh Thanks, Brad -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.13.1/466 - Release Date: 10/7/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Crown Castle / Global signal
These are some of the issues that I was referring to. I have no idea how your company works, and what policies you have, but my guess is that if you are a smaller tower company, you's probably do do a better job, just because you's be less likely to be limited by generic policies, and willing to take the time to work out a agreement to meet the tenant's need. Exactly my point. I will rent you a spot on the tower, and we can do it any number of ways. I have WISPS that lease a portion of the tower, ie between 330 and 350 foot, load it up. I also have WISPS that have exclusive bands. It is simple, you get what you pay for. Our rates are still better than the big guys, our time to market can be measured in hours, not months, and when you call, you talk to someone who makes a decision. But, if you need a spot within 1 mile of point A, and ATC or Crown, or etc has the only tower to be had, you pretty much have to play their game, build your own, or talk one of the smaller companies into doing something. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
