RE: [WISPA] more ip tracking upgrades
now that's cool. See if Brandon can figure out the how many hosts are behind that IP address solution where you can then figure out who's reselling your service or just plain sharing it with everyone and their neighbor, at your expense. I've heard there's a set of bytes in the netflow headers that will tell you the mac address of the host behind the NAT box... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 12:38 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] more ip tracking upgrades Brandon has just made some changes on our tracking system. The biggest one is that we can now see top users per day. This will allow us to follow more of what's going on at night. Like yesterday, someone sent 3 gigs up to the net. They've got something on their machine that they are really not gonna want. Trying to pick that one customer out of all of the traffic that normally goes on was a real pain. With the new stuff it was a cake walk. radius.odessaoffice.com/iptrack laters, marlon -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] ISPCON Orlando May 23-25
Tom DeReggi wrote: We currently got a 30 mbps wireless link from our master data center to an Internap datacenter building, about 1/4 mile away. We were thinking of getting a second transit from them, and upgrading the link speed to their building. At that distance even 60Ghz could work. We don't buy Internap bandwidth. Their bandwidth may be good, but the lack of control and their lack of peering is a problem for us. It appears they are now fixing the peering issue. We bought the route optimization appliance so we could keep control and get the benefits of their route optimization technology. We of course sell our premium transit very cheaply to other WISPs and has you know we are now built out in DC and Northern VA. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] ISPCON Orlando May 23-25
Speaker submissions are next week for the show in May in Orlando. http://www.ispcon.com/speak.php Doug Hass wrote: Another good topic for ISPCON would be an introduction to OLSR (Optimized Link State Routing). This routing protocol is beginning to replace OSPF on wireless ISP networks and other mobile and meshed networks. I've found that many providers don't know it even exists, much less how to use it. I'd be happy to speak on this as well. Doug -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] more ip tracking upgrades
On Thu, 14 Dec 2006, Rick Smith wrote: I've heard there's a set of bytes in the netflow headers that will tell you the mac address of the host behind the NAT box... No..not the mac address, but it is reasonable to guess the number of computers behind a nat device. This is based on the TCP timestamp, if I recall correctly. There are a few whitepapers floating around, that google probably could find for you.. :-) -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ Mikrotik Certified Consultant (http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] more ip tracking upgrades
That might be interesting. In our case we don't mind (much) if that happens. Naturally, it's totally against out TOS. However, we bill per bit. If you want to share it with everyone around you, you just have to pay for the privilege. And I don't get stuck with all of the tech support :-). One thing I wish I did have was something that would tell me what protocol people were using most. I think that might help me spot the ptp junkies. I did ask him to add an average figure anywhere there was a total. Like what's the average of all users? How about the top 25 users? etc. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 4:55 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] more ip tracking upgrades now that's cool. See if Brandon can figure out the how many hosts are behind that IP address solution where you can then figure out who's reselling your service or just plain sharing it with everyone and their neighbor, at your expense. I've heard there's a set of bytes in the netflow headers that will tell you the mac address of the host behind the NAT box... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 12:38 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] more ip tracking upgrades Brandon has just made some changes on our tracking system. The biggest one is that we can now see top users per day. This will allow us to follow more of what's going on at night. Like yesterday, someone sent 3 gigs up to the net. They've got something on their machine that they are really not gonna want. Trying to pick that one customer out of all of the traffic that normally goes on was a real pain. With the new stuff it was a cake walk. radius.odessaoffice.com/iptrack laters, marlon -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Overage plan help
Hi All, As most of you know, we bill for bits not speed. All of our customers go as fast as we can make them go. They do have to be responsible users though. To this end we had a 1 gig per month transfer limit. When I say gig, I mean it in the sense of what 1mbps service would be. So I guess that's byte not bit. Though I must admit, I get mixed up on the translation from bits per second to bits transferred. Anyhow, using the data we got from that great new usage tracking software that Brandon wrote for us, it's clear that 1 gig won't cut it. (The original 1 gig is the result of figuring out that our average dial-up user in 1999 used 110 meg per month.) Today, I've raised the included service level to 4 gigs. The 5th gig is an extra $5. The next one is $10, then $20, then $40 etc. etc. etc. By the time you hit 25 gigs of data transfer, you're into me for over $5,000,000. Naturally, no one will pay that and they aren't really expected to. However, our billing rate is designed for folks that are spending $35 to $40 per month and doing less than 4 gigs per month. If someone is using a lot of data there are two main issues that I have to recover costs for. One is that I pay for internet access based on usage. So the more the customers use the more I have to pay, and it's up by 15% last month! Next, there is only so much capacity on each tower, if we have heavy users in a particular zone we have to add capacity for them. In the end, what I'm trying to do is either bill or run off the 5% of the customer base that are costing us money instead of generating a profit. Customers like this one http://radius.odessaoffice.com/iptrack/search.php?ip=64.146.146.112month=12year=2006period=month they do more than 4 gigs almost every day. I'm looking for two things. One is, if someone had a constant 1 mbps of data transfer rate, how many gigs would they use per month. (we pay for internet based on the mbps rates we consume) Next, what's a more reasonable overage table? Our minimum bill for anything at all here is $5.00 just to cover the costs of writing the bill. I want to keep billing per bit. It's, by far, the most effective way to compete against cable and dsl. It's also a good way to push the hogs over to competing services. Our average user is running at about 1.7 gigs per month. This includes all of my servers and the mail server alone hit 50 gigs last month. So I'll bet that the average user is actually under 1.5 gigs per month. Thoughts and ideas Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Grrrr... pigtails
Thanksgiving day, my son and I put up a future customer's CPE up in the woods. I mean, up in the mountains, log cabin, beyond phone and power. They have a generator, batteries, solar panels, etc. We did it because snow was predicted and already a little bit had fallen. We got it there, link established and was working on aiming the antenna when the laptop ran out of power. The power plug on the laptop PSU had broken and, well... we were dead. The people got back a few days later, and by then, yes, quite a bit of snow had fallen. When we had the chance to go back and finish ( plug the power in inside, hook up thier equipment) we had no signal. We tried everything we could think of, short of changing parts, because we didn't take any (wasn't our install rig, just a 4x4 so we could get through the deep snow), no signal. Yesterday, after a few days of warm, we drove in ( this time, install rig, my '89 Caravan ) digging through some deep snow going in the canyon between them and the main road. Eventually, we changed every part, including the WAR board and SR9, no signal. Then, I assembled the WAR we took out and all the parts changed out, and standing there, on the ground... I had a solid link. Finally, in pitch black dark, I climbed the ladder, had someone provide some light, and hooked up the SR9 through another pigtail to the anntenna... POOF, signal. Put the original back on... Poof, signal. then, none. Work the pigtail around so it's not tensioned and in line and put it back on... Poof, signal. I go inside, log in...and in a minute or so, watch the signal fade to nothing. T urns out our low loss u.fl to n-female pigtails with the thicker coax in the cold will revert shape and pull themselves off the cramped SR9 / WAR board combination. I found one of the crapola thing things I had rejected for 5 ghz use and put it in place... Yeah, 1 or 2 db loss in the piggy, but it stayed on... Anyone make a low loss pigtail that's flexible even in the cold? I tried two different ones, one pacwireless, one is Roger's, I think. Neither could be convinced to retain a new shape in the cold... +++ neofast.net - fast internet for North East Oregon and South East Washington email me at mark at neofast dot net 541-969-8200 Direct commercial inquiries to purchasing at neofast dot net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] more ip tracking upgrades
If your IP addy's aren't changing often you can use ntop to classify traffic for you. I use it to tell whether or not traffic is human-generated or if it's from a worm or p2p. http://www.ntop.org Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:56 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] more ip tracking upgrades That might be interesting. In our case we don't mind (much) if that happens. Naturally, it's totally against out TOS. However, we bill per bit. If you want to share it with everyone around you, you just have to pay for the privilege. And I don't get stuck with all of the tech support :-). One thing I wish I did have was something that would tell me what protocol people were using most. I think that might help me spot the ptp junkies. I did ask him to add an average figure anywhere there was a total. Like what's the average of all users? How about the top 25 users? etc. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 4:55 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] more ip tracking upgrades now that's cool. See if Brandon can figure out the how many hosts are behind that IP address solution where you can then figure out who's reselling your service or just plain sharing it with everyone and their neighbor, at your expense. I've heard there's a set of bytes in the netflow headers that will tell you the mac address of the host behind the NAT box... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 12:38 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] more ip tracking upgrades Brandon has just made some changes on our tracking system. The biggest one is that we can now see top users per day. This will allow us to follow more of what's going on at night. Like yesterday, someone sent 3 gigs up to the net. They've got something on their machine that they are really not gonna want. Trying to pick that one customer out of all of the traffic that normally goes on was a real pain. With the new stuff it was a cake walk. radius.odessaoffice.com/iptrack laters, marlon -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Overage plan help
Marlon: The first part is pretty easy, we will just assume a 30 month day: Bytes = 1,000,000 bps * 60 seconds/min * 60 min/hour * 24 hours/day * 30 days / 8 bits/byte = 324,000,000,000 The next part to covert to gigabytes is where people will have disputes. I use 1GB = 1,073,741,824 bytes, but you can see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabyte for the entire discussion. Therefore in a month of continuous transfer they would move about 301.7 GB! We also charge residential customers for transfer and have the limit set at 4GB which is more than enough for 95%+ of our customers. The other 5% simply get slowed down to dialup rates when they cross the limit by our bandwidth monitor. If they want to pump the speed back up they need to pay for additional transfer which we sell in 4GB blocks at about the same as the monthly cost for the service. This definitely cuts down on the abusers of the system which are of course the hardest on the network. For business customers we just price service accordingly and do not place transfer limits on these accounts. That is just my 2 cents worth, hope it helps. Larry -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 11:21 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Cc: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com Subject: [WISPA] Overage plan help Hi All, As most of you know, we bill for bits not speed. All of our customers go as fast as we can make them go. They do have to be responsible users though. To this end we had a 1 gig per month transfer limit. When I say gig, I mean it in the sense of what 1mbps service would be. So I guess that's byte not bit. Though I must admit, I get mixed up on the translation from bits per second to bits transferred. Anyhow, using the data we got from that great new usage tracking software that Brandon wrote for us, it's clear that 1 gig won't cut it. (The original 1 gig is the result of figuring out that our average dial-up user in 1999 used 110 meg per month.) Today, I've raised the included service level to 4 gigs. The 5th gig is an extra $5. The next one is $10, then $20, then $40 etc. etc. etc. By the time you hit 25 gigs of data transfer, you're into me for over $5,000,000. Naturally, no one will pay that and they aren't really expected to. However, our billing rate is designed for folks that are spending $35 to $40 per month and doing less than 4 gigs per month. If someone is using a lot of data there are two main issues that I have to recover costs for. One is that I pay for internet access based on usage. So the more the customers use the more I have to pay, and it's up by 15% last month! Next, there is only so much capacity on each tower, if we have heavy users in a particular zone we have to add capacity for them. In the end, what I'm trying to do is either bill or run off the 5% of the customer base that are costing us money instead of generating a profit. Customers like this one http://radius.odessaoffice.com/iptrack/search.php?ip=64.146.146.112mont h=12year=2006period=month they do more than 4 gigs almost every day. I'm looking for two things. One is, if someone had a constant 1 mbps of data transfer rate, how many gigs would they use per month. (we pay for internet based on the mbps rates we consume) Next, what's a more reasonable overage table? Our minimum bill for anything at all here is $5.00 just to cover the costs of writing the bill. I want to keep billing per bit. It's, by far, the most effective way to compete against cable and dsl. It's also a good way to push the hogs over to competing services. Our average user is running at about 1.7 gigs per month. This includes all of my servers and the mail server alone hit 50 gigs last month. So I'll bet that the average user is actually under 1.5 gigs per month. Thoughts and ideas Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Overage plan help
That helps. Thanks! As an fyi here's what I pay for my bw. In Odessa I have a 10 meg fiber link. I pay for internet at $200 per month based on our average usage. In and out are combined. In Ephrata, where we have the servers etc. I have a 100 meg fiber link. I pay for internet at $250 at the 95%. This is the one that's killing me. When we moved to this new upstream provider our connectivity improved noticeably. Our costs have also now gone up because things work so much better than they did. I really don't want to rate limit people. But I've got to figure out a way to keep that 95th% thing down better but still be able to pull 30 megs at a fiber customer's location via speakeasy! grin Maybe I'll see if Butch can come up with something that will choke people back after 10 minutes of anything over say, 2 megs, then slow them down down down till they stop using the net for an hour or two. Wonder how hard it would be to set up the MT boxes to do that? laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Larry A Weidig [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 10:05 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Overage plan help Marlon: The first part is pretty easy, we will just assume a 30 month day: Bytes = 1,000,000 bps * 60 seconds/min * 60 min/hour * 24 hours/day * 30 days / 8 bits/byte = 324,000,000,000 The next part to covert to gigabytes is where people will have disputes. I use 1GB = 1,073,741,824 bytes, but you can see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabyte for the entire discussion. Therefore in a month of continuous transfer they would move about 301.7 GB! We also charge residential customers for transfer and have the limit set at 4GB which is more than enough for 95%+ of our customers. The other 5% simply get slowed down to dialup rates when they cross the limit by our bandwidth monitor. If they want to pump the speed back up they need to pay for additional transfer which we sell in 4GB blocks at about the same as the monthly cost for the service. This definitely cuts down on the abusers of the system which are of course the hardest on the network. For business customers we just price service accordingly and do not place transfer limits on these accounts. That is just my 2 cents worth, hope it helps. Larry -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 11:21 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Cc: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com Subject: [WISPA] Overage plan help Hi All, As most of you know, we bill for bits not speed. All of our customers go as fast as we can make them go. They do have to be responsible users though. To this end we had a 1 gig per month transfer limit. When I say gig, I mean it in the sense of what 1mbps service would be. So I guess that's byte not bit. Though I must admit, I get mixed up on the translation from bits per second to bits transferred. Anyhow, using the data we got from that great new usage tracking software that Brandon wrote for us, it's clear that 1 gig won't cut it. (The original 1 gig is the result of figuring out that our average dial-up user in 1999 used 110 meg per month.) Today, I've raised the included service level to 4 gigs. The 5th gig is an extra $5. The next one is $10, then $20, then $40 etc. etc. etc. By the time you hit 25 gigs of data transfer, you're into me for over $5,000,000. Naturally, no one will pay that and they aren't really expected to. However, our billing rate is designed for folks that are spending $35 to $40 per month and doing less than 4 gigs per month. If someone is using a lot of data there are two main issues that I have to recover costs for. One is that I pay for internet access based on usage. So the more the customers use the more I have to pay, and it's up by 15% last month! Next, there is only so much capacity on each tower, if we have heavy users in a particular zone we have to add capacity for them. In the end, what I'm trying to do is either bill or run off the 5% of the customer base that are costing us money instead of generating a profit. Customers like this one http://radius.odessaoffice.com/iptrack/search.php?ip=64.146.146.112mont h=12year=2006period=month they do more than 4 gigs almost every day. I'm looking for two things. One is, if someone had a constant 1 mbps of data transfer rate, how many gigs would they use per month. (we pay for internet based on the mbps rates we consume) Next, what's a more reasonable overage table? Our minimum bill for anything at all here is $5.00 just to cover the costs of writing the bill. I want
[WISPA] AP Search
We're still looking for the ideal Access Point. We realize we can't pack much more then 30-40 on these so that's one limitation. We use basically three types: Older Smartbridges 2510 which are great units but unavailable, the New Smartbridges replacements which don’t seem to want to consistently stay up and Engenius AP's. The reason we like the Smartbridge is because it allows a pass through username/password style of authentication that bypasses the switch so we can have a centralized access granted in our radius server and it interfaces to our billing. We haven't found another like it. On the other hand the Engenius has to have authentication through the switch before radius so the AP is essentially open to relaying from unethical competitors while the smartbridges. We're pretty sick of the new smartbridges being not only unreliable but takes forever to put in a MAC through it's overly complicated and slow loading internal menus. If you have any others that can work like the old 2510' s with good capacity and pass through radius please let me know. Thanks, Forbes Mercy President - Washington Broadband, Inc. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.18/585 - Release Date: 12/13/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] AP Search
http://www.mikrotik.com hands down these days. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Forbes Mercy Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 2:29 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] AP Search We're still looking for the ideal Access Point. We realize we can't pack much more then 30-40 on these so that's one limitation. We use basically three types: Older Smartbridges 2510 which are great units but unavailable, the New Smartbridges replacements which don't seem to want to consistently stay up and Engenius AP's. The reason we like the Smartbridge is because it allows a pass through username/password style of authentication that bypasses the switch so we can have a centralized access granted in our radius server and it interfaces to our billing. We haven't found another like it. On the other hand the Engenius has to have authentication through the switch before radius so the AP is essentially open to relaying from unethical competitors while the smartbridges. We're pretty sick of the new smartbridges being not only unreliable but takes forever to put in a MAC through it's overly complicated and slow loading internal menus. If you have any others that can work like the old 2510' s with good capacity and pass through radius please let me know. Thanks, Forbes Mercy President - Washington Broadband, Inc. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.18/585 - Release Date: 12/13/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Overage plan help
You can setup limits based on a block of Ips, you can say, 2 meg for say 30 min, then drop them down to another speed, such as 128k. This is very effective; however, the hard part is that this is an overall rate for a specific IP. So if you have a business with 20 users behind their router, it's an average over all the users. One user can slow the rest of the network down. Not to mention that slows down web access. As far as running multiple, I DON'T think you can do that. Multiple, being, after so long turn them down to this, then after so long turn them down to this, unless that was a script looking at overall bits transferred. The simplest thing to do is to start charging that customer that is pulling 30+ gigs a month, and charge him for that. Either that customer will pay or get off of your internet service and got your completion. I remember a Dialup ISP doing something like that in the past, they looked at there base and found 4%, and it was a specifc 4% of their users caused 90% of all of the helpdesk calls. They said, you can have this cheaper rate, but if you have to call in, we will charge you per min (people PC like) or you can discontinue service with us. Even after about 1/2 of them customers they sent this letter to left, they ended up letting 3 techs go, and were actually saving more than double the cost that those dial up customers income brought in. Same difference. Dennis -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 12:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Overage plan help That helps. Thanks! As an fyi here's what I pay for my bw. In Odessa I have a 10 meg fiber link. I pay for internet at $200 per month based on our average usage. In and out are combined. In Ephrata, where we have the servers etc. I have a 100 meg fiber link. I pay for internet at $250 at the 95%. This is the one that's killing me. When we moved to this new upstream provider our connectivity improved noticeably. Our costs have also now gone up because things work so much better than they did. I really don't want to rate limit people. But I've got to figure out a way to keep that 95th% thing down better but still be able to pull 30 megs at a fiber customer's location via speakeasy! grin Maybe I'll see if Butch can come up with something that will choke people back after 10 minutes of anything over say, 2 megs, then slow them down down down till they stop using the net for an hour or two. Wonder how hard it would be to set up the MT boxes to do that? laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Larry A Weidig [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 10:05 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Overage plan help Marlon: The first part is pretty easy, we will just assume a 30 month day: Bytes = 1,000,000 bps * 60 seconds/min * 60 min/hour * 24 hours/day * 30 days / 8 bits/byte = 324,000,000,000 The next part to covert to gigabytes is where people will have disputes. I use 1GB = 1,073,741,824 bytes, but you can see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabyte for the entire discussion. Therefore in a month of continuous transfer they would move about 301.7 GB! We also charge residential customers for transfer and have the limit set at 4GB which is more than enough for 95%+ of our customers. The other 5% simply get slowed down to dialup rates when they cross the limit by our bandwidth monitor. If they want to pump the speed back up they need to pay for additional transfer which we sell in 4GB blocks at about the same as the monthly cost for the service. This definitely cuts down on the abusers of the system which are of course the hardest on the network. For business customers we just price service accordingly and do not place transfer limits on these accounts. That is just my 2 cents worth, hope it helps. Larry -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 11:21 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Cc: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com Subject: [WISPA] Overage plan help Hi All, As most of you know, we bill for bits not speed. All of our customers go as fast as we can make them go. They do have to be responsible users though. To this end we had a 1 gig per month transfer limit. When I say gig, I mean it in the sense of what 1mbps service would be. So I guess that's byte not bit. Though I must admit, I get mixed up on the translation from bits per second to bits transferred. Anyhow, using the data we got from that
RE: [WISPA] AP Search
MT is the ideal access point. New smartbridges sux, I have seen so many people say that they have had issues with them. Passing the username/password, such as a PPPOE session is no problem. It can terminte right at the access point with a MT. Using radius is no issue either. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Forbes Mercy Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 1:29 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] AP Search We're still looking for the ideal Access Point. We realize we can't pack much more then 30-40 on these so that's one limitation. We use basically three types: Older Smartbridges 2510 which are great units but unavailable, the New Smartbridges replacements which don't seem to want to consistently stay up and Engenius AP's. The reason we like the Smartbridge is because it allows a pass through username/password style of authentication that bypasses the switch so we can have a centralized access granted in our radius server and it interfaces to our billing. We haven't found another like it. On the other hand the Engenius has to have authentication through the switch before radius so the AP is essentially open to relaying from unethical competitors while the smartbridges. We're pretty sick of the new smartbridges being not only unreliable but takes forever to put in a MAC through it's overly complicated and slow loading internal menus. If you have any others that can work like the old 2510' s with good capacity and pass through radius please let me know. Thanks, Forbes Mercy President - Washington Broadband, Inc. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.18/585 - Release Date: 12/13/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] AP Search
Or you can hotspot EVERY access point! Mac authencation is no issue. Or you can do the PPPoE thing too. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess - 2K Wireless Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 3:08 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] AP Search MT is the ideal access point. New smartbridges sux, I have seen so many people say that they have had issues with them. Passing the username/password, such as a PPPOE session is no problem. It can terminte right at the access point with a MT. Using radius is no issue either. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Forbes Mercy Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 1:29 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] AP Search We're still looking for the ideal Access Point. We realize we can't pack much more then 30-40 on these so that's one limitation. We use basically three types: Older Smartbridges 2510 which are great units but unavailable, the New Smartbridges replacements which don't seem to want to consistently stay up and Engenius AP's. The reason we like the Smartbridge is because it allows a pass through username/password style of authentication that bypasses the switch so we can have a centralized access granted in our radius server and it interfaces to our billing. We haven't found another like it. On the other hand the Engenius has to have authentication through the switch before radius so the AP is essentially open to relaying from unethical competitors while the smartbridges. We're pretty sick of the new smartbridges being not only unreliable but takes forever to put in a MAC through it's overly complicated and slow loading internal menus. If you have any others that can work like the old 2510' s with good capacity and pass through radius please let me know. Thanks, Forbes Mercy President - Washington Broadband, Inc. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.18/585 - Release Date: 12/13/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] AP Search
StarOS would handle this easily. I tried Mikrotik with a setup like this, and it just didn't work quite right. FWIW, I have a StarOS AP with approx 50 customers on it that has been up for almost a year. Not a single reboot, just works. StarOS will also do hotspot type authentication as well. Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Forbes Mercy wrote: We're still looking for the ideal Access Point. We realize we can't pack much more then 30-40 on these so that's one limitation. We use basically three types: Older Smartbridges 2510 which are great units but unavailable, the New Smartbridges replacements which don’t seem to want to consistently stay up and Engenius AP's. The reason we like the Smartbridge is because it allows a pass through username/password style of authentication that bypasses the switch so we can have a centralized access granted in our radius server and it interfaces to our billing. We haven't found another like it. On the other hand the Engenius has to have authentication through the switch before radius so the AP is essentially open to relaying from unethical competitors while the smartbridges. We're pretty sick of the new smartbridges being not only unreliable but takes forever to put in a MAC through it's overly complicated and slow loading internal menus. If you have any others that can work like the old 2510' s with good capacity and pass through radius please let me know. Thanks, Forbes Mercy President - Washington Broadband, Inc. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Overage plan help
MT MT MT MT MT MT MT MT MT Oh and MT ... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:51 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Overage plan help Gang, What's everyone using to do rate limiting or bandwidth shaping. Bandwidth shaping is something I'm interested in. Are there any linux packages that can do this well? Jason Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: That helps. Thanks! As an fyi here's what I pay for my bw. In Odessa I have a 10 meg fiber link. I pay for internet at $200 per month based on our average usage. In and out are combined. In Ephrata, where we have the servers etc. I have a 100 meg fiber link. I pay for internet at $250 at the 95%. This is the one that's killing me. When we moved to this new upstream provider our connectivity improved noticeably. Our costs have also now gone up because things work so much better than they did. I really don't want to rate limit people. But I've got to figure out a way to keep that 95th% thing down better but still be able to pull 30 megs at a fiber customer's location via speakeasy! grin Maybe I'll see if Butch can come up with something that will choke people back after 10 minutes of anything over say, 2 megs, then slow them down down down till they stop using the net for an hour or two. Wonder how hard it would be to set up the MT boxes to do that? laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Larry A Weidig [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 10:05 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Overage plan help Marlon: The first part is pretty easy, we will just assume a 30 month day: Bytes = 1,000,000 bps * 60 seconds/min * 60 min/hour * 24 hours/day * 30 days / 8 bits/byte = 324,000,000,000 The next part to covert to gigabytes is where people will have disputes. I use 1GB = 1,073,741,824 bytes, but you can see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabyte for the entire discussion. Therefore in a month of continuous transfer they would move about 301.7 GB! We also charge residential customers for transfer and have the limit set at 4GB which is more than enough for 95%+ of our customers. The other 5% simply get slowed down to dialup rates when they cross the limit by our bandwidth monitor. If they want to pump the speed back up they need to pay for additional transfer which we sell in 4GB blocks at about the same as the monthly cost for the service. This definitely cuts down on the abusers of the system which are of course the hardest on the network. For business customers we just price service accordingly and do not place transfer limits on these accounts. That is just my 2 cents worth, hope it helps. Larry -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 11:21 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Cc: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com Subject: [WISPA] Overage plan help Hi All, As most of you know, we bill for bits not speed. All of our customers go as fast as we can make them go. They do have to be responsible users though. To this end we had a 1 gig per month transfer limit. When I say gig, I mean it in the sense of what 1mbps service would be. So I guess that's byte not bit. Though I must admit, I get mixed up on the translation from bits per second to bits transferred. Anyhow, using the data we got from that great new usage tracking software that Brandon wrote for us, it's clear that 1 gig won't cut it. (The original 1 gig is the result of figuring out that our average dial-up user in 1999 used 110 meg per month.) Today, I've raised the included service level to 4 gigs. The 5th gig is an extra $5. The next one is $10, then $20, then $40 etc. etc. etc. By the time you hit 25 gigs of data transfer, you're into me for over $5,000,000. Naturally, no one will pay that and they aren't really expected to. However, our billing rate is designed for folks that are spending $35 to $40 per month and doing less than 4 gigs per month. If someone is using a lot of data there are two main issues that I have to recover costs for. One is that I pay for internet access based on usage. So the more the customers use the more I have to pay, and it's up by 15% last month! Next, there is only so much capacity on each tower, if we have heavy users in a particular zone we have to add capacity for them. In the end, what I'm trying to do is either bill or run off the 5% of the customer
Re: [WISPA] Overage plan help
If you have not done it already, putting everyone on your Postini system will decrease your mail server bandwidth substantially. Frank Muto FSM Marketing Group, Inc. Postini Partner Reseller http://wispa.spam-virus.com - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] I want to keep billing per bit. It's, by far, the most effective way to compete against cable and dsl. It's also a good way to push the hogs over to competing services. Our average user is running at about 1.7 gigs per month. This includes all of my servers and the mail server alone hit 50 gigs last month. So I'll bet that the average user is actually under 1.5 gigs per month. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] AP Search
If you want radius on the AP, go get Tranzeo 6000 series radios. I only have a couple of them lit, but so far so good. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 11:29 AM Subject: [WISPA] AP Search We're still looking for the ideal Access Point. We realize we can't pack much more then 30-40 on these so that's one limitation. We use basically three types: Older Smartbridges 2510 which are great units but unavailable, the New Smartbridges replacements which don’t seem to want to consistently stay up and Engenius AP's. The reason we like the Smartbridge is because it allows a pass through username/password style of authentication that bypasses the switch so we can have a centralized access granted in our radius server and it interfaces to our billing. We haven't found another like it. On the other hand the Engenius has to have authentication through the switch before radius so the AP is essentially open to relaying from unethical competitors while the smartbridges. We're pretty sick of the new smartbridges being not only unreliable but takes forever to put in a MAC through it's overly complicated and slow loading internal menus. If you have any others that can work like the old 2510' s with good capacity and pass through radius please let me know. Thanks, Forbes Mercy President - Washington Broadband, Inc. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.18/585 - Release Date: 12/13/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] salary
Hi, Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;) What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue... Travis Microserv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Overage plan help
We don't put everyone on Postini. We charge those that want the filtering $1 per month. Like John and Forbes, it's cost is too high to just include automatically. Instead, we make money on spam. I'd say around half of our customers and almost all hosted domains take Postini. We're actually using the usage stats to help us sell Postini. No one wants to pay an overage fee just to receive all that dang spam :-). laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Frank Muto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 4:34 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Overage plan help If you have not done it already, putting everyone on your Postini system will decrease your mail server bandwidth substantially. Frank Muto FSM Marketing Group, Inc. Postini Partner Reseller http://wispa.spam-virus.com - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] I want to keep billing per bit. It's, by far, the most effective way to compete against cable and dsl. It's also a good way to push the hogs over to competing services. Our average user is running at about 1.7 gigs per month. This includes all of my servers and the mail server alone hit 50 gigs last month. So I'll bet that the average user is actually under 1.5 gigs per month. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] salary
Salary? I think I remember that word...CRS you know. Equals leftovers, right Tim? Rock soup again :-) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] salary Hi, Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;) What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue... Travis Microserv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] salary
I just take what I need home. It doesn't amount to much but the company pays all gas, cell phone, auto repair, computer etc. bills. So the number isn't really fair. We billed an insurance company for some work that I did after a storm, we negotiated a $4000 per month rate for me as a typical paycheck for a person with a company of this one's size. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:55 PM Subject: [WISPA] salary Hi, Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;) What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue... Travis Microserv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] AP Search
Hi Dennis, In my deployment, Mikrotik would not handle the radius authentication by MAC address like StarOS does. I also like to use the Orinoco cards for my access points, and Mikrotik does not have a driver for those cards - whereas StarOS has an excellent driver. I wanted to try out Mikrotik on my network, and I do have a couple of MT APs on my network, but they are not integrated with my radius/provisioning system and they are going to be replaced as soon as I can get out to them. Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dennis Burgess - 2K Wireless wrote: Matt, I am curious, I have used staros, and it is a good OS. Don't get me wrong. It does work and it works well. I am wondering what about the MT in the setup did you not like, or like better in star os? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 4:04 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] AP Search StarOS would handle this easily. I tried Mikrotik with a setup like this, and it just didn't work quite right. FWIW, I have a StarOS AP with approx 50 customers on it that has been up for almost a year. Not a single reboot, just works. StarOS will also do hotspot type authentication as well. Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Forbes Mercy wrote: We're still looking for the ideal Access Point. We realize we can't pack much more then 30-40 on these so that's one limitation. We use basically three types: Older Smartbridges 2510 which are great units but unavailable, the New Smartbridges replacements which don't seem to want to consistently stay up and Engenius AP's. The reason we like the Smartbridge is because it allows a pass through username/password style of authentication that bypasses the switch so we can have a centralized access granted in our radius server and it interfaces to our billing. We haven't found another like it. On the other hand the Engenius has to have authentication through the switch before radius so the AP is essentially open to relaying from unethical competitors while the smartbridges. We're pretty sick of the new smartbridges being not only unreliable but takes forever to put in a MAC through it's overly complicated and slow loading internal menus. If you have any others that can work like the old 2510' s with good capacity and pass through radius please let me know. Thanks, Forbes Mercy President - Washington Broadband, Inc. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] salary
I've been going through a bunch of sale / merger / buyout / funding meetings lately, and that's about the salary they've all agreed on for an owner of a wisp at around 500 users. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 9:10 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary I just take what I need home. It doesn't amount to much but the company pays all gas, cell phone, auto repair, computer etc. bills. So the number isn't really fair. We billed an insurance company for some work that I did after a storm, we negotiated a $4000 per month rate for me as a typical paycheck for a person with a company of this one's size. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:55 PM Subject: [WISPA] salary Hi, Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;) What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue... Travis Microserv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] salary
Possibly if your arpu is $40, if arpu is around $150, compensation should be about $100k year or so. That's my experience Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Smith Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 12:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] salary I've been going through a bunch of sale / merger / buyout / funding meetings lately, and that's about the salary they've all agreed on for an owner of a wisp at around 500 users. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 9:10 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary I just take what I need home. It doesn't amount to much but the company pays all gas, cell phone, auto repair, computer etc. bills. So the number isn't really fair. We billed an insurance company for some work that I did after a storm, we negotiated a $4000 per month rate for me as a typical paycheck for a person with a company of this one's size. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:55 PM Subject: [WISPA] salary Hi, Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;) What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue... Travis Microserv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] salary
IF your company is making money, the salary that you pay the CEO (assuming that you ARE the CEO) is really highly dependent on tax liability. If you have your company set up as a pass-through tax entity such as a LLC, S Corporation, or god forbid a plain-jane partnership, then you are getting taxed directly on the organizations revenues. You need to make sure that you pay yourself a living wage + enough to cover your tax liability on the organization's revenue. Aside from that, you are just as well off if you leave the money in the company as if you took the money out of the company. If you leave money in the company, you still own that money as equity in the company as retained earnings. On the other hand, if you are set up a C-corp, there are entirely different considerations as how to determine your salary. We all know that a C-corp is a non-pass-through tax entity. Therefore, any net profit before taxes are taxed at the company's tax rate and then taxed again if the company makes a distribution to you as a stockholder in the form of a dividend. Your first instinct would be to give yourself a big salary in order to minimize the tax burden of the company. However, you might find that the company has a lower tax rate than you do personally. Therefore, there are circumstances, especially with small closely-held corporations where it makes most sense to grant yourself a small salary and then give yourself a big dividend to take advantage of the 15% capital gains tax-rate. There are also some methods for granting yourself stock options that yield an expense for the company and at the same time provide a capital gains distribution to you as an employee. The bottom line is that the number you pay your CEO should be determined not only by what your company can currently bear but also upon what will protect your equity from the taxman. What other company's pay their CEO shouldn't really figure into the equation. It's more important that you figure out how to retain your equity/earnings and at the same time provide sufficient funding for the growth and prosperity of your business. Larry Yunker Network Consultant [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 7:55 PM Subject: [WISPA] salary Hi, Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;) What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue... Travis Microserv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Grrrr... pigtails
T urns out our low loss u.fl to n-female pigtails with the thicker coax in the cold will revert shape and pull themselves off the cramped SR9 / WAR board combination. Excellent detail to bring up. Sounds like a fastener/tiedown problem to me. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mark Koskenmaki [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 11:55 AM Subject: [WISPA] G... pigtails Thanksgiving day, my son and I put up a future customer's CPE up in the woods. I mean, up in the mountains, log cabin, beyond phone and power. They have a generator, batteries, solar panels, etc. We did it because snow was predicted and already a little bit had fallen. We got it there, link established and was working on aiming the antenna when the laptop ran out of power. The power plug on the laptop PSU had broken and, well... we were dead. The people got back a few days later, and by then, yes, quite a bit of snow had fallen. When we had the chance to go back and finish ( plug the power in inside, hook up thier equipment) we had no signal. We tried everything we could think of, short of changing parts, because we didn't take any (wasn't our install rig, just a 4x4 so we could get through the deep snow), no signal. Yesterday, after a few days of warm, we drove in ( this time, install rig, my '89 Caravan ) digging through some deep snow going in the canyon between them and the main road. Eventually, we changed every part, including the WAR board and SR9, no signal. Then, I assembled the WAR we took out and all the parts changed out, and standing there, on the ground... I had a solid link. Finally, in pitch black dark, I climbed the ladder, had someone provide some light, and hooked up the SR9 through another pigtail to the anntenna... POOF, signal. Put the original back on... Poof, signal. then, none. Work the pigtail around so it's not tensioned and in line and put it back on... Poof, signal. I go inside, log in...and in a minute or so, watch the signal fade to nothing. T urns out our low loss u.fl to n-female pigtails with the thicker coax in the cold will revert shape and pull themselves off the cramped SR9 / WAR board combination. I found one of the crapola thing things I had rejected for 5 ghz use and put it in place... Yeah, 1 or 2 db loss in the piggy, but it stayed on... Anyone make a low loss pigtail that's flexible even in the cold? I tried two different ones, one pacwireless, one is Roger's, I think. Neither could be convinced to retain a new shape in the cold... +++ neofast.net - fast internet for North East Oregon and South East Washington email me at mark at neofast dot net 541-969-8200 Direct commercial inquiries to purchasing at neofast dot net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] salary
Zero. When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a repayment of loan? The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed wether they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM Subject: [WISPA] salary Hi, Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;) What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue... Travis Microserv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
