Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Tom DeReggi]

Trango also does that now to.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Alan Bryant" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops


We have been using one Dragonwave 11 ghz link with absolutely no
problems. It is about 7 miles.

We are putting up two Nera 11 ghz links right now. One is about 17
miles, the other about 10 miles. So far the support from Nera is not
the greatest.

On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Matt  wrote:
> We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz
> licensed hops. What gear out there can use both horizontal and
> vertical at once to increase throughput? We are currently considering
> Exalt. Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput.
> We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be
> ready to if needed. This will replace a couple DS3 circuits.
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



-- 
Alan Bryant
Gtek Computers & Wireless L.L.C.
Office: 361-777-1400 | Fax: 361-777-1405
a...@gtekcommunications.com | www.gtek.biz

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Re: [WISPA] Change AP

[Jerry Richardson]

Negative.

You could run a 900MHz, 2.4GHz, and 5.7GHz card though.

- Jerry


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of ~NGL~
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 12:43 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Change AP

I do not know anything regarding Routerboards, if I use a RB493AH which has 
3 mini-pci slots, can I install 3 GZ-902 cards and have 3 900mhz AP's in 1 
box?
NGL

--
From: "~NGL~" 
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 10:07 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Change AP

> Has anyone used a FLR9G30 sold by XAGYL Communications as an AP to Tranzeo
> TR-902 Clients?
> Thanx
> NGL
>
> --
> From: "Chris Gotstein" 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:04 PM
> To: 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Change AP
>
>> Sorry, GZ901 card.  Typo.
>>
>> On 11/3/2010 8:09 PM, ~NGL~ wrote:
>>> What do I look for a GZ-901 or a GZ-902, I am confused.
>>> NGL
>>>
>>> --
>>> From: "Chris Gotstein"
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 5:21 PM
>>> To: "WISPA General List"
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Change AP
>>>
 The GZ902 is the expensive part, finding them is even more fun.

 On 11/3/2010 7:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
> I'm sure you can get something under $400, maybe closer to $300.  Not
> cheap, but that's another $100 in the pocket.
>
> Not familiar with 900 MT/Tranzeo hardware.  If you can crack open the
> Tranzeo box and put in an RB in place of their mobo you'd be set.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 8:16 PM, Chris Gotstein >  wrote:
>
>  I use a Mikrotik RB411AH board with a GZ902 radio card.  Cost for
> the
>  whole thing with outdoor case and parts came in around $400.
>
>  On 11/3/2010 7:14 PM, ~NGL~ wrote:
>   >  I know nothing regarding MT RB or Gz901. When you set these 
> up
>  did you use
>   >  any Tranzeo firmware. I have reboot my TR-902 AP's a couple
> times
>  a day, its
>   >  getting to be a pain.
>   >  What is the cost of these?
>   >  NGL
>   >
>   >  --
>   >  From: "Chris Gotstein" >
>   >  Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 4:59 PM
>   >  To: "WISPA General List"  >
>   >  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Change AP
>   >
>   >>  You can run a MT RB with a GZ901 radio card.  Matt Larson 
> got
> it
>  working
>   >>  and i'm using it currently with great results.  Here are the
> details
>   >>  from Matt:
>   >>
>   >>  Verified on my bench this morning, I was able to get a
> Tranzeo
>   >>  SL9-8 to
>   >>  associate with an RB493AH with a GZ901 card on 5mhz 
> channels.
>   >>
>   >>  The trickiest part turned out to be finding the correct
> channel
>   >>  settings.
>   >>
>   >>  I had to set the country mode to Australia in order to get
> access
>   >>  to the
>   >>  923 channel. Once that was done, all four of the Tranzeo
> channels
>   >>  worked flawlessly. Here is the channel map:
>   >>
>   >>  2452 = 908
>   >>  2457 = 913
>   >>  2462 = 918
>   >>  2467 = 923
>   >>
>   >>  On 11/3/2010 6:23 PM, ~NGL~ wrote:
>   >>>  Which model?
>   >>>
>   >>>   *From:* Jerry
> Richardson  >
>   >>>   *Sent:* Wednesday, November 03, 2010 4:19 PM
>   >>>   *To:* WISPA General List  >
>   >>>   *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Change AP
>   >>>
>   >>>   Ubiquity?
>   >>>
>   >>>   Jerry Richardson
>   >>>   Sent Mobile
>   >>>
>   >>>   On Nov 3, 2010, at 4:16 PM, "Ryan
>  Spott"mailto:rsp...@irongoat.net>
>   >>>  >>
> wrote:
>   >>>
>      You can put 'the guts' of a TR-902 into a mikrotik.
>   
>      ryan
>   
>   
>   
>      On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 2:50 PM, ~NGL~
>     <>n...@ngl.net
>  >>
> wrote:
>   
>    

Re: [WISPA] NS2 with 24v

[Tom DeReggi]

Well, considering it ships with 24V UBNT PS,  yes it supports 24V
Should use regulated PS, to make sure stays under 25V.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Jason Hensley" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 11:28 AM
Subject: [WISPA] NS2 with 24v


> Will an NS2 run on 24v or will it fry it?
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
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>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Josh Luthman]

Says Ceragon on the boxes.

They appear identical in hardware and software to the Radwins we bought with
the company.  Just FYI.
On Nov 5, 2010 12:03 AM, "Chuck Bartosch"  wrote:
> To be honest Josh, didn't you tell me your problems were with what was at
one time a sister company, Radwin, and not Ceragon? Yet you call the company
"Ceragon" when you've told me it was really Radwin. It really isn't fair to
be tarring and feathering Ceragon due to the problems with Radwin-which was
years ago and not even the same company.
>
> Ceragon products in the licensed sphere are _strictly_ Ceragon designed
and manufactured (I followed up on this the last time you were panning
Ceragon so I could independently understand the situation). They are not
even OEM'd from Radwin. Ceragon is an independent, publicly traded company.
It was *started*, years ago by the same investment group that started
Radwin.
>
> For the record, we've been quite happy with Ceragon's products. The
interface hasn't been a problem, but like Brad, I believe we tend to use the
telnet interface. I've also been happy with Alvarion and Ubiquity in the
unlicensed space. I have no personal interest in any of these companies, but
don't think it's fair to malign a manufacturer when you don't actually have
any experience with them as far as I can tell. When you did have problems it
was with a related company, not this company, it was years ago (things DO
change), and this company at least is no longer even a "sister" company (in
the sense at least that it is now publicly traded).
>
> Chuck
>
> On Nov 4, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
>> The air must be different there. I can't stand Ceragon stuff. Nothing but
>> problems. Zero support. The firmware is terrible as is the interface.
>> On Nov 4, 2010 9:58 PM, "Brad Belton"  wrote:
>>> Agreed. We have had Ser# 0001 11GHz Trango GigaLINK in service since
>> early 2008 among several others since then with great service. The few
times
>> we’ve needed Trango support they have been extremely responsive and
helpful.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think we also have one of the first if not the first 18GHz GigaLINK in
>> service too since mid 2007. We’ll be hanging three more Trango Giga’s &
>> Apex’s in the next few weeks. We have always been early adopters of
>> Sunstream/Trango equipment.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We have DragonWave, BridgeWave, Trango, DMC, Ceragon and PCOM licensed
>> gear deployed and active in 6GHz, 11GHz, 18GHz, 23GHz, 38GHz and 70-80GHz
on
>> our network. By far the Trango, BridgeWave and Ceragon links are our
>> favorites.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Brad
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:21 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We use Trango GigaLinks almost exclusively in our network; 6ghz, 11ghz,
>> 18ghz, and 23ghz. They work very well & support thus far has been great.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Blake Covarrubias
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 4, 2010, at 14:43, "Nick Olsen"  wrote:
>>>
>>> I've worked with a few of the Trango Apex 11ghz links. Running 256QAM
they
>> will do ~258Mb/s full duplex, or something like that.
>>> .8 to 1ms across it, With 10Mb/s or 200Mb/s of traffic on it. So far,
>> They've been the best links I've had the pleasure of working with. In
terms
>> of performance, And management.
>>>
>>> Nick Olsen
>>> Network Operations
>>>
>>> (855) FLSPEED x106
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _
>>>
>>>
>>> From: "David E. Smith" 
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:32 PM
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 16:20, Matt  wrote:
>>>
>>> We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz
>>> licensed hops. What gear out there can use both horizontal and
>>> vertical at once to increase throughput? We are currently considering
>>> Exalt. Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput.
>>> We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be
>>> ready to if needed. This will replace a couple DS3 circuits.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> How much throughput do you need? Trango's Apex gear can, if you have big
>> enough antennas and pay for the licensing (both FCC and for Trango's
>> software), do something like 300Mbps.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> David Smith
>>>
>>> MVN.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>

>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
-

Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Chuck Bartosch]

To be honest Josh, didn't you tell me your problems were with what was at one 
time a sister company, Radwin, and not Ceragon? Yet you call the company 
"Ceragon" when you've told me it was really Radwin. It really isn't fair to be 
tarring and feathering Ceragon due to the problems with Radwin-which was years 
ago and not even the same company.

Ceragon products in the licensed sphere are _strictly_ Ceragon designed and 
manufactured (I followed up on this the last time you were panning Ceragon so I 
could independently understand the situation). They are not even OEM'd from 
Radwin. Ceragon is an independent, publicly traded company. It was *started*, 
years ago by the same investment group that started Radwin.

For the record, we've been quite happy with Ceragon's products. The interface 
hasn't been a problem, but like Brad, I believe we tend to use the telnet 
interface. I've also been happy with Alvarion and Ubiquity in the unlicensed 
space. I have no personal interest in any of these companies, but don't think 
it's fair to malign a manufacturer when you don't actually have any experience 
with them as far as I can tell. When you did have problems it was with a 
related company, not this company, it was years ago (things DO change), and 
this company at least is no longer even a "sister" company (in the sense at 
least that it is now publicly traded).

Chuck

On Nov 4, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

> The air must be different there.  I can't stand Ceragon stuff.  Nothing but
> problems.  Zero support.  The firmware is terrible as is the interface.
> On Nov 4, 2010 9:58 PM, "Brad Belton"  wrote:
>> Agreed. We have had Ser# 0001 11GHz Trango GigaLINK in service since
> early 2008 among several others since then with great service. The few times
> we’ve needed Trango support they have been extremely responsive and helpful.
> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I think we also have one of the first if not the first 18GHz GigaLINK in
> service too since mid 2007. We’ll be hanging three more Trango Giga’s &
> Apex’s in the next few weeks. We have always been early adopters of
> Sunstream/Trango equipment.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> We have DragonWave, BridgeWave, Trango, DMC, Ceragon and PCOM licensed
> gear deployed and active in 6GHz, 11GHz, 18GHz, 23GHz, 38GHz and 70-80GHz on
> our network. By far the Trango, BridgeWave and Ceragon links are our
> favorites.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Brad
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias
>> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:21 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> We use Trango GigaLinks almost exclusively in our network; 6ghz, 11ghz,
> 18ghz, and 23ghz. They work very well & support thus far has been great.
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Blake Covarrubias
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 4, 2010, at 14:43, "Nick Olsen"  wrote:
>> 
>> I've worked with a few of the Trango Apex 11ghz links. Running 256QAM they
> will do ~258Mb/s full duplex, or something like that.
>> .8 to 1ms across it, With 10Mb/s or 200Mb/s of traffic on it. So far,
> They've been the best links I've had the pleasure of working with. In terms
> of performance, And management.
>> 
>> Nick Olsen
>> Network Operations
>> 
>> (855) FLSPEED x106
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _
>> 
>> 
>> From: "David E. Smith" 
>> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:32 PM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 16:20, Matt  wrote:
>> 
>> We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz
>> licensed hops. What gear out there can use both horizontal and
>> vertical at once to increase throughput? We are currently considering
>> Exalt. Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput.
>> We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be
>> ready to if needed. This will replace a couple DS3 circuits.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> How much throughput do you need? Trango's Apex gear can, if you have big
> enough antennas and pay for the licensing (both FCC and for Trango's
> software), do something like 300Mbps.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> David Smith
>> 
>> MVN.net
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>> 
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> 
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless

Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Josh Luthman]

My Ceragons do not have a telnet interface.  After finding it was the Win32
app alone I knew it would be a disaster.  The customer that had us put them
up, my first experience, had a Tsunami link work for the better part of a
decade.  The Ceragon worked for a few months, at the most, before an IDU or
ODU needed replaced, it locked up (MAJOR bug for the first year of use),
etc.

Using an SAF 11 Ghz as of 2 weeks ago.  No real comparison of product, just
mentioning.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 10:37 PM, Brad Belton  wrote:

> Ceragon Telnet interface is terrible?  I’ve never used the CeraView
> software, but not much to complain about with the Telnet interface.  Then
> again I can’t stand the Trango web GUI either…I only use Telnet for our
> Trango links.  So if you’re a GUI guy then I understand.
>
>
>
> If we can pretty much set ‘em and forget ‘em then they’re ok in our book.
> 
>
>
>
> You want to complain about user interface…try spending some time with the
> PCOM “Link Manager” GUI interface.  Now that is a sucky interface!
> Fortunately the few PCOM radios we have left out there have been pretty much
> rock solid.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
>
>
> Brad
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 04, 2010 9:15 PM
>
> *To:* WISPA General List
> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
>
>
>
> The air must be different there.  I can't stand Ceragon stuff.  Nothing but
> problems.  Zero support.  The firmware is terrible as is the interface.
>
> On Nov 4, 2010 9:58 PM, "Brad Belton"  wrote:
> > Agreed. We have had Ser# 0001 11GHz Trango GigaLINK in service since
> early 2008 among several others since then with great service. The few times
> we’ve needed Trango support they have been extremely responsive and helpful.
>
> >
> >
> >
> > I think we also have one of the first if not the first 18GHz GigaLINK in
> service too since mid 2007. We’ll be hanging three more Trango Giga’s &
> Apex’s in the next few weeks. We have always been early adopters of
> Sunstream/Trango equipment.
> >
> >
> >
> > We have DragonWave, BridgeWave, Trango, DMC, Ceragon and PCOM licensed
> gear deployed and active in 6GHz, 11GHz, 18GHz, 23GHz, 38GHz and 70-80GHz on
> our network. By far the Trango, BridgeWave and Ceragon links are our
> favorites.
> >
> >
> >
> > Best,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Brad
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias
> > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:21 PM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
> >
> >
> >
> > We use Trango GigaLinks almost exclusively in our network; 6ghz, 11ghz,
> 18ghz, and 23ghz. They work very well & support thus far has been great.
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Blake Covarrubias
> >
> >
> > On Nov 4, 2010, at 14:43, "Nick Olsen"  wrote:
> >
> > I've worked with a few of the Trango Apex 11ghz links. Running 256QAM
> they will do ~258Mb/s full duplex, or something like that.
> > .8 to 1ms across it, With 10Mb/s or 200Mb/s of traffic on it. So far,
> They've been the best links I've had the pleasure of working with. In terms
> of performance, And management.
> >
> > Nick Olsen
> > Network Operations
> >
> > (855) FLSPEED x106
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _
> >
> >
> > From: "David E. Smith" 
> > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:32 PM
> > To: "WISPA General List" 
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 16:20, Matt  wrote:
> >
> > We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz
> > licensed hops. What gear out there can use both horizontal and
> > vertical at once to increase throughput? We are currently considering
> > Exalt. Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput.
> > We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be
> > ready to if needed. This will replace a couple DS3 circuits.
> >
> >
> >
> > How much throughput do you need? Trango's Apex gear can, if you have big
> enough antennas and pay for the licensing (both FCC and for Trango's
> software), do something like 300Mbps.
> >
> >
> >
> > David Smith
> >
> > MVN.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> ---

Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Brad Belton]

Ceragon Telnet interface is terrible?  I've never used the CeraView
software, but not much to complain about with the Telnet interface.  Then
again I can't stand the Trango web GUI either.I only use Telnet for our
Trango links.  So if you're a GUI guy then I understand.

 

If we can pretty much set 'em and forget 'em then they're ok in our book.


 

You want to complain about user interface.try spending some time with the
PCOM "Link Manager" GUI interface.  Now that is a sucky interface!
Fortunately the few PCOM radios we have left out there have been pretty much
rock solid.

 

Best,

 

 

Brad

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 9:15 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

 

The air must be different there.  I can't stand Ceragon stuff.  Nothing but
problems.  Zero support.  The firmware is terrible as is the interface.

On Nov 4, 2010 9:58 PM, "Brad Belton"  wrote:
> Agreed. We have had Ser# 0001 11GHz Trango GigaLINK in service since
early 2008 among several others since then with great service. The few times
we've needed Trango support they have been extremely responsive and helpful.

> 
> 
> 
> I think we also have one of the first if not the first 18GHz GigaLINK in
service too since mid 2007. We'll be hanging three more Trango Giga's &
Apex's in the next few weeks. We have always been early adopters of
Sunstream/Trango equipment.
> 
> 
> 
> We have DragonWave, BridgeWave, Trango, DMC, Ceragon and PCOM licensed
gear deployed and active in 6GHz, 11GHz, 18GHz, 23GHz, 38GHz and 70-80GHz on
our network. By far the Trango, BridgeWave and Ceragon links are our
favorites.
> 
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias
> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:21 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
> 
> 
> 
> We use Trango GigaLinks almost exclusively in our network; 6ghz, 11ghz,
18ghz, and 23ghz. They work very well & support thus far has been great.
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Blake Covarrubias
> 
> 
> On Nov 4, 2010, at 14:43, "Nick Olsen"  wrote:
> 
> I've worked with a few of the Trango Apex 11ghz links. Running 256QAM they
will do ~258Mb/s full duplex, or something like that.
> .8 to 1ms across it, With 10Mb/s or 200Mb/s of traffic on it. So far,
They've been the best links I've had the pleasure of working with. In terms
of performance, And management.
> 
> Nick Olsen
> Network Operations 
> 
> (855) FLSPEED x106
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _ 
> 
> 
> From: "David E. Smith" 
> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:32 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 16:20, Matt  wrote:
> 
> We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz
> licensed hops. What gear out there can use both horizontal and
> vertical at once to increase throughput? We are currently considering
> Exalt. Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput.
> We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be
> ready to if needed. This will replace a couple DS3 circuits.
> 
> 
> 
> How much throughput do you need? Trango's Apex gear can, if you have big
enough antennas and pay for the licensing (both FCC and for Trango's
software), do something like 300Mbps. 
> 
> 
> 
> David Smith
> 
> MVN.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>


> 
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> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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> 




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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Josh Luthman]

The air must be different there.  I can't stand Ceragon stuff.  Nothing but
problems.  Zero support.  The firmware is terrible as is the interface.
On Nov 4, 2010 9:58 PM, "Brad Belton"  wrote:
> Agreed. We have had Ser# 0001 11GHz Trango GigaLINK in service since
early 2008 among several others since then with great service. The few times
we’ve needed Trango support they have been extremely responsive and helpful.

>
>
>
> I think we also have one of the first if not the first 18GHz GigaLINK in
service too since mid 2007. We’ll be hanging three more Trango Giga’s &
Apex’s in the next few weeks. We have always been early adopters of
Sunstream/Trango equipment.
>
>
>
> We have DragonWave, BridgeWave, Trango, DMC, Ceragon and PCOM licensed
gear deployed and active in 6GHz, 11GHz, 18GHz, 23GHz, 38GHz and 70-80GHz on
our network. By far the Trango, BridgeWave and Ceragon links are our
favorites.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
>
>
> Brad
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias
> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:21 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
>
>
>
> We use Trango GigaLinks almost exclusively in our network; 6ghz, 11ghz,
18ghz, and 23ghz. They work very well & support thus far has been great.
>
>
> --
>
> Blake Covarrubias
>
>
> On Nov 4, 2010, at 14:43, "Nick Olsen"  wrote:
>
> I've worked with a few of the Trango Apex 11ghz links. Running 256QAM they
will do ~258Mb/s full duplex, or something like that.
> .8 to 1ms across it, With 10Mb/s or 200Mb/s of traffic on it. So far,
They've been the best links I've had the pleasure of working with. In terms
of performance, And management.
>
> Nick Olsen
> Network Operations
>
> (855) FLSPEED x106
>
> 
>
>
>
>
> _
>
>
> From: "David E. Smith" 
> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:32 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 16:20, Matt  wrote:
>
> We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz
> licensed hops. What gear out there can use both horizontal and
> vertical at once to increase throughput? We are currently considering
> Exalt. Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput.
> We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be
> ready to if needed. This will replace a couple DS3 circuits.
>
>
>
> How much throughput do you need? Trango's Apex gear can, if you have big
enough antennas and pay for the licensing (both FCC and for Trango's
software), do something like 300Mbps.
>
>
>
> David Smith
>
> MVN.net
>
>
>
>
>
>

> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>

>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
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>



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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Brad Belton]

Agreed.  We have had Ser# 0001 11GHz Trango GigaLINK in service since early 
2008 among several others since then with great service.  The few times we’ve 
needed Trango support they have been extremely responsive and helpful.  

 

I think we also have one of the first if not the first 18GHz GigaLINK in 
service too since mid 2007.  We’ll be hanging three more Trango Giga’s & Apex’s 
in the next few weeks.  We have always been early adopters of Sunstream/Trango 
equipment.

 

We have DragonWave, BridgeWave, Trango, DMC, Ceragon and PCOM licensed gear 
deployed and active in 6GHz, 11GHz, 18GHz, 23GHz, 38GHz and 70-80GHz on our 
network.  By far the Trango, BridgeWave and Ceragon links are our favorites.

 

Best,

 

 

Brad

 



 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Blake Covarrubias
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:21 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

 

We use Trango GigaLinks almost exclusively in our network; 6ghz, 11ghz, 18ghz, 
and 23ghz. They work very well & support thus far has been great.


--

Blake Covarrubias


On Nov 4, 2010, at 14:43, "Nick Olsen"  wrote:

I've worked with a few of the Trango Apex 11ghz links. Running 256QAM they will 
do ~258Mb/s full duplex, or something like that.
.8 to 1ms across it, With 10Mb/s or 200Mb/s of traffic on it. So far, They've 
been the best links I've had the pleasure of working with. In terms of 
performance, And management.

Nick Olsen
Network Operations 

(855) FLSPEED  x106

   

 


  _  


From: "David E. Smith" 
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:32 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops




On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 16:20, Matt  wrote:

We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz
licensed hops.  What gear out there can use both horizontal and
vertical at once to increase throughput?  We are currently considering
Exalt.  Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput.
 We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be
ready to if needed.  This will replace a couple DS3 circuits.

 

How much throughput do you need? Trango's Apex gear can, if you have big enough 
antennas and pay for the licensing (both FCC and for Trango's software), do 
something like 300Mbps. 

 

David Smith

MVN.net

 




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<>


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Re: [WISPA] NS2 with 24v

[Robert West]

Here's some craziness some may not play with.  I use the PoE USB
injectors to power them up with the lowly netbook's USB port...  (hasn't
failed with any UBNT device yet)  to hang and aim.  So they will perform
fine at 5v on a short leash to get them in place.  Then power up to 24v
Unless, of course, it's an older (Old?)  5Ghz AirGrid, then it will be
toast.

 

Nobody-

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 8:47 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] NS2 with 24v

 

I've been running the UBNT 24 volt power supplies on several of my tower
UBNT radios due to the reset feature. Mike @ UBNT says 24 is fine. In fact,
he says new NS2's & 5's will be coming with 24 volt power supplies.

BTW: Watch out because the POE & LAN ports are opposite of their 15 volt
units!  

 

On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Jason Hensley  wrote:

Will an NS2 run on 24v or will it fry it?





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Re: [WISPA] NS2 with 24v

[RickG]

I've been running the UBNT 24 volt power supplies on several of my tower
UBNT radios due to the reset feature. Mike @ UBNT says 24 is fine. In fact,
he says new NS2's & 5's will be coming with 24 volt power supplies.
BTW: Watch out because the POE & LAN ports are opposite of their 15 volt
units!

On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Jason Hensley  wrote:

> Will an NS2 run on 24v or will it fry it?
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
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Re: [WISPA] [Bulk] Re: Full BGP on RouterOS

[Rubens Kuhl]

On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 1:30 PM, Faisal Imtiaz  wrote:
> Any Juniper fans / users  on this list ?
>
> I have a couple of questions about them.

M-series: Very good, but are aging very fast. Good to buy used, though.
MX-series: The new king of the hill. The first J's I would considerer
for most of the tasks.
T-series: Too expensive for the average xSP, look first at the bigger MX'es.
EX-series: Not that good, unfortunately. May improve in the future.
SRX-series: Good firewalls with some routing capabilities, but sales
guys will try to sell them as routers. Run away if you want routing.
J-series: Retired, but better than SRX at some fail-over scenarios.
SRX may improve in the future, as well.


Rubens



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Re: [WISPA] NS2 with 24v

[Scott Carullo]

Its hit or miss, some will run on 24v some will not.  Thats my experience.  
I just mark them with a pencil so when they come out of the box I know 
which is which...

Scott Carullo
Technical Operations
855-FLSPEED x102



From: "Jason Hensley" 
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 11:26 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: [WISPA] NS2 with 24v

Will an NS2 run on 24v or will it fry it?



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[WISPA] Spectrum Bridge whitespaces webinar now on Youtube

[John Valenti]

FYI
I listened to this webinar last week , they have now loaded it on Youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/spectrumbridge

The best news I picked up from it was that they expect hardware to be available 
early second quarter 2011.  I hope that is accurate, I was afraid it would be 
much later.
-John

> Thank you for attending the webinar, Introducing TV White Spaces, hosted by 
> Spectrum Bridge and co-sponsored by The Brattle Group. The webinar slides and 
> recording has been posted to YouTube and can be accessed by clicking here or 
> visiting www.youtube.com/SpectrumBridge.
>  
> The second webinar in the series, Analyzing the New TV White Space Rules, is 
> co-sponsored by Rini Coran, PC and scheduled for November 18, 2010. More 
> information on the upcoming webinar will be made available shortly and can be 
> found here.
>  
> Regards,
>  
<>> 
>  
> Enabling Universal Spectrum Access
>  
> Spectrum Bridge, Inc.
> 1064 Greenwood Blvd., Suite 200
> Lake Mary FL 32746
> (407) 792-1570
> (407) 805-3118 Fax
>  



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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Blake Covarrubias]

We use Trango GigaLinks almost exclusively in our network; 6ghz, 11ghz, 18ghz, 
and 23ghz. They work very well & support thus far has been great.

--
Blake Covarrubias

On Nov 4, 2010, at 14:43, "Nick Olsen"  wrote:

> I've worked with a few of the Trango Apex 11ghz links. Running 256QAM they 
> will do ~258Mb/s full duplex, or something like that.
> .8 to 1ms across it, With 10Mb/s or 200Mb/s of traffic on it. So far, They've 
> been the best links I've had the pleasure of working with. In terms of 
> performance, And management.
> 
> Nick Olsen
> Network Operations
> (855) FLSPEED  x106
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: "David E. Smith" 
> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:32 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 16:20, Matt  wrote:
> We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz
> licensed hops.  What gear out there can use both horizontal and
> vertical at once to increase throughput?  We are currently considering
> Exalt.  Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput.
>  We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be
> ready to if needed.  This will replace a couple DS3 circuits.
> 
> How much throughput do you need? Trango's Apex gear can, if you have big 
> enough antennas and pay for the licensing (both FCC and for Trango's 
> software), do something like 300Mbps. 
> 
> David Smith
> MVN.net
>  
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
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> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Nick Olsen]

I've worked with a few of the Trango Apex 11ghz links. Running 256QAM they 
will do ~258Mb/s full duplex, or something like that.
.8 to 1ms across it, With 10Mb/s or 200Mb/s of traffic on it. So far, 
They've been the best links I've had the pleasure of working with. In terms 
of performance, And management.

Nick Olsen
Network Operations
(855) FLSPEED  x106



From: "David E. Smith" 
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:32 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 16:20, Matt  wrote:

We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz
licensed hops.  What gear out there can use both horizontal and
vertical at once to increase throughput?  We are currently considering
Exalt.  Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput.
 We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be
ready to if needed.  This will replace a couple DS3 circuits.


How much throughput do you need? Trango's Apex gear can, if you have big 
enough antennas and pay for the licensing (both FCC and for Trango's 
software), do something like 300Mbps. 


David Smith
MVN.net
 




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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[David E. Smith]

On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 16:20, Matt  wrote:

> We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz
> licensed hops.  What gear out there can use both horizontal and
> vertical at once to increase throughput?  We are currently considering
> Exalt.  Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput.
>  We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be
> ready to if needed.  This will replace a couple DS3 circuits.


How much throughput do you need? Trango's Apex gear can, if you have big
enough antennas and pay for the licensing (both FCC and for Trango's
software), do something like 300Mbps.

David Smith
MVN.net



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Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Alan Bryant]

We have been using one Dragonwave 11 ghz link with absolutely no
problems. It is about 7 miles.

We are putting up two Nera 11 ghz links right now. One is about 17
miles, the other about 10 miles. So far the support from Nera is not
the greatest.

On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Matt  wrote:
> We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz
> licensed hops.  What gear out there can use both horizontal and
> vertical at once to increase throughput?  We are currently considering
> Exalt.  Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput.
>  We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be
> ready to if needed.  This will replace a couple DS3 circuits.
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
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>
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>
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>



-- 
Alan Bryant
Gtek Computers & Wireless L.L.C.
Office: 361-777-1400 | Fax: 361-777-1405
a...@gtekcommunications.com | www.gtek.biz

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication (including any attachments)
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not the intended recipient, you should delete this communication
and/or shred the materials and any attachments and are hereby notified
that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this communication,
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[WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Matt]

We are looking at upgrading our network and adding a handful(7) 11ghz
licensed hops.  What gear out there can use both horizontal and
vertical at once to increase throughput?  We are currently considering
Exalt.  Short coming of 11 ghz and longish 25 mile hops is throughput.
 We do not need a lot of bandwidth at the start but would like to be
ready to if needed.  This will replace a couple DS3 circuits.



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[WISPA] looking for Contract Installer for our WISP

[support]

Hey Guys,

I'm looking for A Contract Installer for our WISP in the Knox Indiana area

this would be for Home installs

anyone know of a company near by?

Thanks

-- 


Tim Steele

supp...@nitline.com

NITLine Support

(574) 772-7550 ext 103

www.NITLine.net




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Re: [WISPA] SAF Radios

[Chuck Hogg]

Mike @ Cielo is good to work with as well, I've worked with him multiple times.
Regards,

Chuck



On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Mike Goicoechea  wrote:
> We sell SAF and are a WISPA Vendor member. Please let us know if we can
> assist.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Goicoechea
> VP of Operations
> Cielo Systems International
> 806-977-9001 ext 101
> 806-763-1945 fax
> Skype Mike.Goik
> m...@cielosystems.net
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of can...@believewireless.net
> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 10:53 AM
> To: wireless@wispa.org
> Subject: [WISPA] SAF Radios
>
> What companies sell the SAF 24GHz radio besides 3-Db?
>
>
> 
> 
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>
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>



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Re: [WISPA] Change AP

[David E. Smith]

On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 14:43, ~NGL~  wrote:

> I do not know anything regarding Routerboards, if I use a RB493AH which has
> 3 mini-pci slots, can I install 3 GZ-902 cards and have 3 900mhz AP's in 1
> box?


You probably could, but you might not want to. You'd have three APs, all in
the same band, located less than an inch apart. There's often an unhealthy
amount of self-interference when you do things like that.

David Smith
MVN.net



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Re: [WISPA] Change AP

[~NGL~]

I do not know anything regarding Routerboards, if I use a RB493AH which has 
3 mini-pci slots, can I install 3 GZ-902 cards and have 3 900mhz AP's in 1 
box?
NGL

--
From: "~NGL~" 
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 10:07 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Change AP

> Has anyone used a FLR9G30 sold by XAGYL Communications as an AP to Tranzeo
> TR-902 Clients?
> Thanx
> NGL
>
> --
> From: "Chris Gotstein" 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:04 PM
> To: 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Change AP
>
>> Sorry, GZ901 card.  Typo.
>>
>> On 11/3/2010 8:09 PM, ~NGL~ wrote:
>>> What do I look for a GZ-901 or a GZ-902, I am confused.
>>> NGL
>>>
>>> --
>>> From: "Chris Gotstein"
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 5:21 PM
>>> To: "WISPA General List"
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Change AP
>>>
 The GZ902 is the expensive part, finding them is even more fun.

 On 11/3/2010 7:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
> I'm sure you can get something under $400, maybe closer to $300.  Not
> cheap, but that's another $100 in the pocket.
>
> Not familiar with 900 MT/Tranzeo hardware.  If you can crack open the
> Tranzeo box and put in an RB in place of their mobo you'd be set.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 8:16 PM, Chris Gotstein >  wrote:
>
>  I use a Mikrotik RB411AH board with a GZ902 radio card.  Cost for
> the
>  whole thing with outdoor case and parts came in around $400.
>
>  On 11/3/2010 7:14 PM, ~NGL~ wrote:
>   >  I know nothing regarding MT RB or Gz901. When you set these 
> up
>  did you use
>   >  any Tranzeo firmware. I have reboot my TR-902 AP's a couple
> times
>  a day, its
>   >  getting to be a pain.
>   >  What is the cost of these?
>   >  NGL
>   >
>   >  --
>   >  From: "Chris Gotstein" >
>   >  Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 4:59 PM
>   >  To: "WISPA General List"  >
>   >  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Change AP
>   >
>   >>  You can run a MT RB with a GZ901 radio card.  Matt Larson 
> got
> it
>  working
>   >>  and i'm using it currently with great results.  Here are the
> details
>   >>  from Matt:
>   >>
>   >>  Verified on my bench this morning, I was able to get a
> Tranzeo
>   >>  SL9-8 to
>   >>  associate with an RB493AH with a GZ901 card on 5mhz 
> channels.
>   >>
>   >>  The trickiest part turned out to be finding the correct
> channel
>   >>  settings.
>   >>
>   >>  I had to set the country mode to Australia in order to get
> access
>   >>  to the
>   >>  923 channel. Once that was done, all four of the Tranzeo
> channels
>   >>  worked flawlessly. Here is the channel map:
>   >>
>   >>  2452 = 908
>   >>  2457 = 913
>   >>  2462 = 918
>   >>  2467 = 923
>   >>
>   >>  On 11/3/2010 6:23 PM, ~NGL~ wrote:
>   >>>  Which model?
>   >>>
>   >>>   *From:* Jerry
> Richardson  >
>   >>>   *Sent:* Wednesday, November 03, 2010 4:19 PM
>   >>>   *To:* WISPA General List  >
>   >>>   *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Change AP
>   >>>
>   >>>   Ubiquity?
>   >>>
>   >>>   Jerry Richardson
>   >>>   Sent Mobile
>   >>>
>   >>>   On Nov 3, 2010, at 4:16 PM, "Ryan
>  Spott"mailto:rsp...@irongoat.net>
>   >>>  >>
> wrote:
>   >>>
>      You can put 'the guts' of a TR-902 into a mikrotik.
>   
>      ryan
>   
>   
>   
>      On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 2:50 PM, ~NGL~
>     <>n...@ngl.net
>  >>
> wrote:
>   
>      Is there anyway to change from a TR-902 AP to
>  something else,
>      and use the existing TR-902 Clients?
>      Thanx
>      NGL
>    If you can read this Thank A Teacher.
>      And

Re: [WISPA] PPPoE Concentrator Redundancy

[Jeff Broadwick - Lists]

Per my engineer:

The Internet side load balancing will still be performed by BGP with an iBGP
connection between the two edge routers.

As long as both locations are L2 bridged, PPPoE will provide load balancing
as Blake outlined. There will probably be some latency difference between
the two routers as they're in different physical locations and clients will
most likely choose the router that's closest to them as it will be the first
to reply.



From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Tim McNabb
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 12:36 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] PPPoE Concentrator Redundancy

I'll try to paint the picture a little more now on this. We are getting a
new feed at a separate location from where our current fiber is at. The idea
is to traverse our existing network and utilize both routers as edge routers
and concentrators, and to get them to load balance between the two if
possible. We definitely need the load-balancing performed on the internet
connection part. Currently we have ImageStream routers for what we're trying
to accomplish. 1 is currently in use and acts as our edge/concentrator with
BGP failover between our two upstreams. The two upstreams are currently in
the same location but we're dropping our DS3 for this other circuit at
another location. What would you guys recommended doing to the ImageStream's
to get them to effectively load balance the internet and still handle the
PPPoE? 

Thanks in advance,

-Tim



From: Blake Covarrubias 
Date: November 2, 2010 23:59:16 PDT
To: WISPA General List 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] PPPoE Concentrator Redundancy
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
I assume you're using MikroTik.

You can run multiple PPPoE servers on a single Ethernet segment. The client
will send its PPPoE Active Discovery Initiation (PADI) packet, and both
servers will reply with their PPPoE Active Discovery Offer (PADO). The
client will then select which AC it wants to use based off of which AC
replied first, AC name, service name, or any combination thereof.

http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:Interface/PPPoE#Stages
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-to-Point_Protocol_over_Ethernet#Server_to
_client:_Offer_.28PADO.29

Posting on Cisco mailing list regarding PPPoE AC redundancy.

http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-bba/2005-April/000477.html

Juniper's PPPoE AC implementation has a 'delay' feature in its 'Service Name
Tables' which allow an administrator to explicitly set an AC as backup.

http://www.juniper.net/techpubs/en_US/junos10.1/information-products/topic-c
ollections/config-guide-network-interfaces/topic-40403.html#jd0e116783

Because MikroTik doesn't support this 'delay' you'd really end up just load
balancing your clients across the two AC's. Not a bad solution and it still
provides some level of redundancy.

--
Blake Covarrubias

On Nov 2, 2010, at 11:36 PM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:

Cross posting from another list for different opinions..

We're looking to have more than one PPPoE Concentrator available so that if
one goes down due to catastrophic failure, the customers associated to that
concentrator will rollover to the next one. However, the concern is that
because the initial connection is layer 2 that both concentrators may see
the same connection attempt and authenticate both. Is there a real effective
way of having two concentrators that either load balance or provide
redundancy?

Thanks,
`S




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Re: [WISPA] Change AP

[~NGL~]

Has anyone used a FLR9G30 sold by XAGYL Communications as an AP to Tranzeo 
TR-902 Clients?
Thanx
NGL

--
From: "Chris Gotstein" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:04 PM
To: 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Change AP

> Sorry, GZ901 card.  Typo.
>
> On 11/3/2010 8:09 PM, ~NGL~ wrote:
>> What do I look for a GZ-901 or a GZ-902, I am confused.
>> NGL
>>
>> --
>> From: "Chris Gotstein"
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 5:21 PM
>> To: "WISPA General List"
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Change AP
>>
>>> The GZ902 is the expensive part, finding them is even more fun.
>>>
>>> On 11/3/2010 7:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
 I'm sure you can get something under $400, maybe closer to $300.  Not
 cheap, but that's another $100 in the pocket.

 Not familiar with 900 MT/Tranzeo hardware.  If you can crack open the
 Tranzeo box and put in an RB in place of their mobo you'd be set.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373


 On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 8:16 PM, Chris Gotstein>>> >  wrote:

  I use a Mikrotik RB411AH board with a GZ902 radio card.  Cost for 
 the
  whole thing with outdoor case and parts came in around $400.

  On 11/3/2010 7:14 PM, ~NGL~ wrote:
   >  I know nothing regarding MT RB or Gz901. When you set these up
  did you use
   >  any Tranzeo firmware. I have reboot my TR-902 AP's a couple 
 times
  a day, its
   >  getting to be a pain.
   >  What is the cost of these?
   >  NGL
   >
   >  --
   >  From: "Chris Gotstein">>> >
   >  Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 4:59 PM
   >  To: "WISPA General List">>>  >
   >  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Change AP
   >
   >>  You can run a MT RB with a GZ901 radio card.  Matt Larson got 
 it
  working
   >>  and i'm using it currently with great results.  Here are the
 details
   >>  from Matt:
   >>
   >>  Verified on my bench this morning, I was able to get a 
 Tranzeo
   >>  SL9-8 to
   >>  associate with an RB493AH with a GZ901 card on 5mhz channels.
   >>
   >>  The trickiest part turned out to be finding the correct 
 channel
   >>  settings.
   >>
   >>  I had to set the country mode to Australia in order to get 
 access
   >>  to the
   >>  923 channel. Once that was done, all four of the Tranzeo 
 channels
   >>  worked flawlessly. Here is the channel map:
   >>
   >>  2452 = 908
   >>  2457 = 913
   >>  2462 = 918
   >>  2467 = 923
   >>
   >>  On 11/3/2010 6:23 PM, ~NGL~ wrote:
   >>>  Which model?
   >>>
   >>>   *From:* Jerry 
 Richardson>
   >>>   *Sent:* Wednesday, November 03, 2010 4:19 PM
   >>>   *To:* WISPA General List>
   >>>   *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Change AP
   >>>
   >>>   Ubiquity?
   >>>
   >>>   Jerry Richardson
   >>>   Sent Mobile
   >>>
   >>>   On Nov 3, 2010, at 4:16 PM, "Ryan
  Spott"mailto:rsp...@irongoat.net>
   >>>  >>
 wrote:
   >>>
      You can put 'the guts' of a TR-902 into a mikrotik.
   
      ryan
   
   
   
      On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 2:50 PM, ~NGL~
     <>n...@ngl.net
  >>
 wrote:
   
      Is there anyway to change from a TR-902 AP to
  something else,
      and use the existing TR-902 Clients?
      Thanx
      NGL
    If you can read this Thank A Teacher.
      And if it's in English Thank A Soldier!
   
   
   
   
   

 
      WISPA Wants You! Join today!
     http://signup.wispa.org/
   

 
   
   >>

[WISPA] PPPoE Concentrator Redundancy

[Tim McNabb]

I’ll try to paint the picture a little more now on this. We are getting a new 
feed at a separate location from where our current fiber is at. The idea is to 
traverse our existing network and utilize both routers as edge routers and 
concentrators, and to get them to load balance between the two if possible. We 
definitely need the load-balancing performed on the internet connection part. 
Currently we have ImageStream routers for what we’re trying to accomplish. 1 is 
currently in use and acts as our edge/concentrator with BGP failover between 
our two upstreams. The two upstreams are currently in the same location but 
we’re dropping our DS3 for this other circuit at another location. What would 
you guys recommended doing to the ImageStreams to get them to effectively load 
balance the internet and still handle the PPPoE?

Thanks in advance,

-Tim



From: Blake Covarrubias mailto:bl...@beamspeed.com>>
Date: November 2, 2010 23:59:16 PDT
To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org>>
Subject: Re: [WISPA] PPPoE Concentrator Redundancy
Reply-To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org>>
I assume you're using MikroTik.

You can run multiple PPPoE servers on a single Ethernet segment. The client 
will send its PPPoE Active Discovery Initiation (PADI) packet, and both servers 
will reply with their PPPoE Active Discovery Offer (PADO). The client will then 
select which AC it wants to use based off of which AC replied first, AC name, 
service name, or any combination thereof.

http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:Interface/PPPoE#Stages
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-to-Point_Protocol_over_Ethernet#Server_to_client:_Offer_.28PADO.29

Posting on Cisco mailing list regarding PPPoE AC redundancy.

http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-bba/2005-April/000477.html

Juniper's PPPoE AC implementation has a 'delay' feature in its 'Service Name 
Tables' which allow an administrator to explicitly set an AC as backup.

http://www.juniper.net/techpubs/en_US/junos10.1/information-products/topic-collections/config-guide-network-interfaces/topic-40403.html#jd0e116783

Because MikroTik doesn't support this 'delay' you'd really end up just load 
balancing your clients across the two AC's. Not a bad solution and it still 
provides some level of redundancy.

--
Blake Covarrubias

On Nov 2, 2010, at 11:36 PM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:


Cross posting from another list for different opinions..

We're looking to have more than one PPPoE Concentrator available so that if one 
goes down due to catastrophic failure, the customers associated to that 
concentrator will rollover to the next one. However, the concern is that 
because the initial connection is layer 2 that both concentrators may see the 
same connection attempt and authenticate both. Is there a real effective way of 
having two concentrators that either load balance or provide redundancy?

Thanks,
`S



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Re: [WISPA] SAF Radios

[Mike Goicoechea]

We sell SAF and are a WISPA Vendor member. Please let us know if we can
assist. 

Thanks, 

Mike Goicoechea
VP of Operations 
Cielo Systems International
806-977-9001 ext 101 
806-763-1945 fax
Skype Mike.Goik
m...@cielosystems.net 
 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of can...@believewireless.net
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 10:53 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] SAF Radios

What companies sell the SAF 24GHz radio besides 3-Db?




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Re: [WISPA] SAF Radios

[Josh Luthman]

Can you overnight products from PR?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 12:07 PM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:

> Gino Villarini does as well, he's a WISP and has experience with them
> in the real world.
>
> Regards,
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 12:01 PM, Faisal Imtiaz 
> wrote:
> > I think balticnetworks also picked them up recently.
> >
> > Faisal Imtiaz
> > Snappy Internet & Telecom
> >
> >
> > On 11/4/2010 11:52 AM, can...@believewireless.net wrote:
> >> What companies sell the SAF 24GHz radio besides 3-Db?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> 
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>
> 
> >>
> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>
> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [WISPA] SAF Radios

[Chuck Hogg]

Gino Villarini does as well, he's a WISP and has experience with them
in the real world.

Regards,

Chuck



On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 12:01 PM, Faisal Imtiaz  wrote:
> I think balticnetworks also picked them up recently.
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>
>
> On 11/4/2010 11:52 AM, can...@believewireless.net wrote:
>> What companies sell the SAF 24GHz radio besides 3-Db?
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
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>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>
>
>
> 
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>
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Re: [WISPA] SAF Radios

[Faisal Imtiaz]

I think balticnetworks also picked them up recently.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom


On 11/4/2010 11:52 AM, can...@believewireless.net wrote:
> What companies sell the SAF 24GHz radio besides 3-Db?
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
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>
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Re: [WISPA] SAF Radios

[Jeremie Chism]

Baltic networks

Sent from my iPhone4

On Nov 4, 2010, at 10:55 AM, Josh Luthman  wrote:

> I'm willing to bet LMG does.
> 
> Mind if I ask why you need someone besides 3db?
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> 
> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 11:52 AM, can...@believewireless.net 
>  wrote:
> What companies sell the SAF 24GHz radio besides 3-Db?
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
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> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] SAF Radios

[Jeremie Chism]

Altius

Sent from my iPhone4

On Nov 4, 2010, at 10:55 AM, Josh Luthman  wrote:

> I'm willing to bet LMG does.
> 
> Mind if I ask why you need someone besides 3db?
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
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> 
> 
> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 11:52 AM, can...@believewireless.net 
>  wrote:
> What companies sell the SAF 24GHz radio besides 3-Db?
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] SAF Radios

[Josh Luthman]

I'm willing to bet LMG does.

Mind if I ask why you need someone besides 3db?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 11:52 AM, can...@believewireless.net <
p...@believewireless.net> wrote:

> What companies sell the SAF 24GHz radio besides 3-Db?
>
>
>
> 
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[WISPA] SAF Radios

[can...@believewireless.net]

What companies sell the SAF 24GHz radio besides 3-Db?



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Re: [WISPA] NS2 with 24v

[Josh Luthman]

GREAT link.  Note that the Powerbridge M5 does have a usb port, it says
otherwise.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 11:38 AM, Faisal Imtiaz  wrote:

>  25v is the upper limit for most of the ubiquity radios.
>
> http://www.ubnt.com/downloads/wiki/UBNT-AOS_prod-specs-gen_5.pdf
>
> Better to run things on a voltage lower then the max 
>
> 24v would be appropriate if it is 24v exactly and you are expecting
> voltage drop due to long cables..
>
> Keep in mind that you get more then 24v if you are using 24v dc power
> from batteries connected to a battery charger, (without some sort of a
> voltage regulator).
>
>
> Regards.
>
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>
>
> On 11/4/2010 11:28 AM, Jason Hensley wrote:
> > Will an NS2 run on 24v or will it fry it?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS

[Kristian Hoffmann]

For what it's worth, RouterOS 4.13 installed on the SuperMicro 5015A-H
without a hitch (CF in a flash reader w/ netinstall).  It actually
booted on 2.9.50 (old flash), but lacked network interfaces.  The
performance difference between the P3 800 and the Atom 330 was minimal
(as it relates to BGP lookups).  Querying the routing tables was still
in the 2-3 minute time range.  Routing filter updates took about 30
seconds.

Vyatta also installed just fine.  However, even moderately complicated
AS path regexs took only 2-3 seconds to complete, sometimes less.  I
couldn't find a query on the BGP table that took more than a couple of
seconds.

So it looks like the answer to my original question is...no, it's not
normal and it's not the hardware, it's just RouterOS that doesn't
perform very well in this area.  On top of that, the ability to
troubleshoot BGP routing issues on RouterOS appears to be significantly
limited compared to Cisco and Cisco-like (e.g. Quagga) implementations.

As far as the hardware goes, it appears to be performing quite well.
Here are the parts if anyone is interested...

1x SuperMicro 5015A-H ($247)
2x DDR2 667 1G RAM ($20)
1x Super Talent 2.5 inch 16GB SATA SSD ($45)


I realize this isn't a Cisco GSR12000.  We have and are using Cisco,
Riverstone, etc. because they were best suited for a particular task.
Each environment/problem warrants different possible solutions and
variations based on personal preference, business needs, etc.


Thanks again for all the information.  This is obviously an complex
problem with many possible solutions.

-Kristian

On Tue, 2010-11-02 at 17:37 -0700, Kristian Hoffmann wrote:
> On Tue, 2010-11-02 at 18:52 -0500, Scott Lambert wrote:
> 
> > I still need to try a Vyatta system.
> 
> I loathe the idea of managing a *nix distro on a router (which is why we
> use RouterOS now).  Apparently I've had too much Tik-aid, because I had
> completely forgotten about Vyatta and similar options.
> 
> I have a SuperMicro 5015A-H (Atom 330 dual-core) coming in tomorrow.
> I'm going to try RouterOS and Vyatta and see how BGP responds on each
> with a single feed.  If anyone else has an x86-based distro they'd like
> to see performance on, let me know.
> 
> And thanks for all the responses.  The information has been very
> helpful.  Unfortunately, the conclusion I came to is "I have no idea
> what I'm going to do."  Cisco = $$$ and MikroTik = coin flip.  Hopefully
> Vyatta lands somewhere in the middle.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -Kristian
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] NS2 with 24v

[Faisal Imtiaz]

  25v is the upper limit for most of the ubiquity radios.

http://www.ubnt.com/downloads/wiki/UBNT-AOS_prod-specs-gen_5.pdf

Better to run things on a voltage lower then the max 

24v would be appropriate if it is 24v exactly and you are expecting 
voltage drop due to long cables..

Keep in mind that you get more then 24v if you are using 24v dc power 
from batteries connected to a battery charger, (without some sort of a 
voltage regulator).


Regards.


Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom


On 11/4/2010 11:28 AM, Jason Hensley wrote:
> Will an NS2 run on 24v or will it fry it?
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] NS2 with 24v

[Josh Luthman]

Original works 12 to 25v according to my notes.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Jason Hensley  wrote:

> Will an NS2 run on 24v or will it fry it?
>
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] [Bulk] Re: Full BGP on RouterOS

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Any Juniper fans / users  on this list ?

I have a couple of questions about them.

Thanks.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom


On 11/4/2010 11:16 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote:
> Hi Rubens,
>
> Given the number of deployments we have in the field that are rock solid, I'd 
> be happy to refer you to some of our customers so you can see for yourself 
> whether they think Quagga is "worthwhile."  ☺
>
> Jeff
> ImageStream
> 800-813-5123 x106
>
> 
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
> Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl
> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 10:52 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [Bulk] Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS
>
> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists
>   wrote:
>> Hi Rubens,
>>
>> We've found Quagga to be rock solid with the typical application which is
>> under a dozen peers.
>>
>> We did add a patch to prevent the never-emptying work queue backlog problem
>> when multiple peers flap at the same time. I'm sure this is the problem the
>> IXP folks ran into.
>
> The Euro-IX folks developed some patches (or maybe some major code
> revision), you might want to take a look into that, but I guess you
> probably knew that already...
>
>> Quagga is a very mature, stable RIP/OSPF/BGP platform which, given
>> multi-threading capabilities, will scale to hundreds of peers.
>
> I saw some nasty bugs over the years with Quagga, and noticed the
> enormous effort required to maintain the old codebase; enough to make
> me always prefer something else. Every now and then a codebase seems
> to be more trouble maintaning than scrapping it altogether on the
> open-source world, and I'm pretty convinced that this time has come to
> Quagga.
>
> If you feel that codebase is worthwhile, I suggest investing a large
> amount of Imagestream revenues on restructuring it. I'll be glad to
> have Quagga as an option, again.
>
>
> Rubens
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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[WISPA] NS2 with 24v

[Jason Hensley]

Will an NS2 run on 24v or will it fry it?




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Re: [WISPA] [Bulk] Re: Full BGP on RouterOS

[Jeff Broadwick - Lists]

Hi Rubens,

Given the number of deployments we have in the field that are rock solid, I'd 
be happy to refer you to some of our customers so you can see for yourself 
whether they think Quagga is "worthwhile."  ☺

Jeff
ImageStream
800-813-5123 x106


From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Rubens Kuhl
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 10:52 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS

On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists
 wrote:
> Hi Rubens,
>
> We've found Quagga to be rock solid with the typical application which is
> under a dozen peers.
>
> We did add a patch to prevent the never-emptying work queue backlog problem
> when multiple peers flap at the same time. I'm sure this is the problem the
> IXP folks ran into.

The Euro-IX folks developed some patches (or maybe some major code
revision), you might want to take a look into that, but I guess you
probably knew that already...

> Quagga is a very mature, stable RIP/OSPF/BGP platform which, given
> multi-threading capabilities, will scale to hundreds of peers.

I saw some nasty bugs over the years with Quagga, and noticed the
enormous effort required to maintain the old codebase; enough to make
me always prefer something else. Every now and then a codebase seems
to be more trouble maintaning than scrapping it altogether on the
open-source world, and I'm pretty convinced that this time has come to
Quagga.

If you feel that codebase is worthwhile, I suggest investing a large
amount of Imagestream revenues on restructuring it. I'll be glad to
have Quagga as an option, again.


Rubens



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Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS

[Jeff Broadwick - Lists]

Blake,

 

I addressed the Quagga comments in a separate email.

 

As to your comment about bridging, of course you don't need to bridge to use
iBGP.  I was specifically talking about using redundant routers in disparate
locations.

 

We have lots of customers who are using ImageStream routers for BGP
redundancy.most using multiple routers.  

 

I'm glad you are happy with your Cisco routers.  I didn't enter this thread
to trash Cisco.  If you have the right Cisco for the job, it will work just
fine.  

 

Regards,

 

Jeff

ImageStream

800-813-5123 x106

 

 

  _  

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 6:45 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS

 

Jeff,

VXRs and down. Not GSR's and up. I wasn't entirely clear in my last message.
Like Travis I was also commenting about the Cisco GSR / 12000 platform. I'm
well aware of the performance of a Linux box compared to a VXR. We run a few
VXR routers in our network in addition to GSR's, BSD routers, and MikroTik.

What you're describing really isn't true hardware redundancy. I'm also well
aware of BGP and its use in a multi-homed environment. We have two separate
GSRs acting as our edge routers. One in California, one in Arizona. Both
routers have multiple eBGP peers, and run iBGP between them. They're
connected by a series of licensed microwave radios with about 155mbps of
bandwidth between the two. We'll be supplementing that link with a dedicated
GigE fiber link in the coming months.

I'm not sure what you're getting at regarding bridging between two
connections. There's no requirement to run a bridged network in order to
operate iBGP.

I have no doubt Quagga works well in some BGP applications. We don't use it
because we have requirements for performance & uptime which a Linux/BSD box
cannot currently meet. We provide voice (TDM) and data services for
companies in various industries such as mining, manufacturing, aerospace,
defense, energy, cellular, and even other ISPs. We literally cannot afford
to wrestle with the issues others on this list experience. If its not
reliable we replace it. We don't have a problem paying for reliability.

--
Blake Covarrubias

On Nov 3, 2010, at 1:16 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote:

> Hi Blake,
> 
> I'm not sure what sort of speeds you think Linux limits out at, but I
believe you might be surprised at how much throughput you can get.  We
generally blow the doors off of the VXRs and down.
> 
> There are two different ways of getting hardware redundancy.  One is with
a massively expensive single box, like the Cisco.  The other is to set up
redundant hardware.which is particularly good in a BGP application.  You can
have a relatively inexpensive router on each circuit, set up iBGP and VRRP
between the boxes, and BGP between the peers.  That way, if you lose
anything, all the in and outbound traffic fails to the other unit(s).  This
also allows for geographic separation of the routers.  If you can bridge
between the routers, you can have them in completely different
locations.thus keeping your network running if something really nasty
happens.
> 
> I can't speak for the other companies, but ImageStream has been handling
BGP for around 10 years.  We use Quagga currently and we've found it to be
very stable, as our customers on-list have attested.  It's one of our top
applications.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jeff
> ImageStream
> 800-813-5123 x106
> 
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias
> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 11:31 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS
> 
> Hardware redundancy, wire speed packet forwarding, support for more
Interface types, and more widely tested & stable software.
> 
> I'll use a MikroTik, Linux, or BSD box as an aggregation router any day;
terminate some VLANs, act as an MPLS CE, perform QoS marking, and
participate in an OSPF area. Probably nothing more. The level of hardware
redundancy & wire-speed forwarding isn't there for my needs.
> 
> If you're just knocking IOS, I realize it isn't the wave of the future.
Cisco does too & has developed IOS XR.
> 
> Linux, MikroTik, and I'm sure Vyatta & ImageStream are great platforms.
They compete well with Cisco in some areas...others not so much. Use what's
appropriate.
> 
> --
> Blake Covarrubias
>
> On Nov 3, 2010, at 8:04, "Jeff Broadwick - Lists" 
wrote:
>
>> I'm curious Travis.not looking for an argument.
>> 
>> What specifically do you think is superior in IOS (Unix-based originally)
to a hardened, purpose-built Linux distro (us, Mikrotik, Vyatta, whatever)?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Jeff
>> ImageStream
>> 800-813-5123 x106
>> 
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 11:37 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Full BGP o

Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS

[Rubens Kuhl]

On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists
 wrote:
> Hi Rubens,
>
> We've found Quagga to be rock solid with the typical application which is
> under a dozen peers.
>
> We did add a patch to prevent the never-emptying work queue backlog problem
> when multiple peers flap at the same time. I'm sure this is the problem the
> IXP folks ran into.

The Euro-IX folks developed some patches (or maybe some major code
revision), you might want to take a look into that, but I guess you
probably knew that already...

> Quagga is a very mature, stable RIP/OSPF/BGP platform which, given
> multi-threading capabilities, will scale to hundreds of peers.

I saw some nasty bugs over the years with Quagga, and noticed the
enormous effort required to maintain the old codebase; enough to make
me always prefer something else. Every now and then a codebase seems
to be more trouble maintaning than scrapping it altogether on the
open-source world, and I'm pretty convinced that this time has come to
Quagga.

If you feel that codebase is worthwhile, I suggest investing a large
amount of Imagestream revenues on restructuring it. I'll be glad to
have Quagga as an option, again.


Rubens



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Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS

[Jeff Broadwick - Lists]

Hi Rubens,

We've found Quagga to be rock solid with the typical application which is
under a dozen peers.

We did add a patch to prevent the never-emptying work queue backlog problem
when multiple peers flap at the same time. I'm sure this is the problem the
IXP folks ran into. 

Quagga is a very mature, stable RIP/OSPF/BGP platform which, given
multi-threading capabilities, will scale to hundreds of peers.

Jeff
ImageStream
800-813-5123 x106


From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 3:51 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS

On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 1:04 AM, Tom DeReggi 
wrote:
> Note: Quagga has been very reliable for quite some time now. Imagestream
and
> Vyatta both use Quagga. Both are great choices for BGP routers.

Although it's a different scenario, the IXP folks beg to differ about
Quagga reliability. When the number of peers is high, it flops
miserably. Some of them moved to OpenBGPd, some of them to BIRD
(http://bird.network.cz). None of them moved to XORP, Mikrotik's
choice (and Vyatta's prior to switching to Quagga).

If one have time, he or she should test all of the above... with
limited time, I would favor testing BIRD first.


> I personally use Mandrake (Mandriva) Linux with a slew of custom
> modifications that we have made, loaded on SuperMicro, and then use latest
> Quagga.
> That has worked well for us, the last 5 years. (although, I dont recommend
> that to someone, until they are vastly familiar with their distro of
Linux.
> Last thing you want to do is use your BGP router for a Guinee Pig Science
> project, rebooting it all the time to test script changes.) But once you
are
> comfortable with your Distro, it works well.

And once you are comfortable with open-source border routing, you
might want to take it to the next level by using hardware-based
forwarding, with open-source software and gateware:
http://www.netfpga.org/


Rubens




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Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS

[Mike Hammett]

Wait, you had ANY problem and MT told you to upgrade?  No

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 11/2/2010 10:39 AM, Brad Belton wrote:
> Agreed.  Breaking about once a month or possibly even more frequently than
> that is what we started to see with one of our v3.30 BGP routers.  This was
> after flawless performance for many, many months.  This is why we initially
> felt it might be a hardware issue.
>
> MikroTik Support response was simply to upgrade to current version (v4.11),
> so we did.  That was about 50-60days ago I think?  Since then the router
> hasn't had any trouble, so we're feeling pretty good about it.  If it
> happens again or the hardware is/was the issue and it ultimately fails; we
> have an exact matching router racked up right beneath it ready to go.
> Eventually we may have Butch help us setup VRRP or some other method to tie
> the two routers together and keep both routers running all the time.
>
> We bring in multiple upstream GigE feeds from diverse geographical locations
> into our network, so losing a BGP router doesn't necessarily mean the
> network goes down...we just lose that particular peering point.
>
> Best,
>
>
> Brad
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
> Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 9:44 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS
>
> This is exactly what I am concerned with.
> Things breaking once in a while is not an issue..
> Things breaking once every month or few weeks is not going to be acceptable
> from our users..
>
> Trying to determine if this is a 'feature' or a short term 'bug'.
>
> Cisco's and Junipers, get a premium even in the used market place, but the
> primary reason for it is stability...
>
> Any other that can chime in with their experiences ?
>
> Many thanks in advance.
>
>
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet&  Telecom
>
>
> On 11/2/2010 10:32 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
>> Our MikroTik BGP router keeps crashing about once every month or
>> so...sometimes sooner, sometimes later.  We are using full BGP tables
>> and 4.11 currently.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Brad Belton   wrote:
>>> We've been running BGP with MikroTik for quite some time now.  It
>>> hasn't been flawless by any stretch, but ever since late v2.8 or
>>> early v2.9 we haven't had much trouble with it.  We running v3.30 on
>>> two routers with two full feeds each and a third running v4.11 with
>>> two full feeds.  All of these routers have a handful of downstream
>>> BGP peers that we are also delivering full tables to.
>>>
>>> So far I think v4.11 might be the best, but we don't have as much
>>> time on that version as we do with v3.30.  The only reason we moved
>>> one of our routers from v3.30 to v4.11 was because we had an unusual
>>> hang with that particular router.  We weren't sure if it was hardware
>>> or OS related, however moving it to v4.11 seems to have resolved the
>>> problem.  (knock on
>>> wood)
>>>
>>> Bottom line is given the price of a beefy MikroTik router vs. buying
>>> an Imagestream or Cisco that is equivalent we can have hot standby
>>> spares on hand and still be thousands if not tens of thousands of
>>> dollars ahead.  That coupled with building a network that isn't
>>> solely dependent on any single point of failure further reduces the
> crisis when a core router fails.
>>> Things break...doesn't matter if MikroTik, ImageStream, Cisco or Juniper
>>> makes it.   ALL things break eventually, so plan for it!
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>>
>>> Brad
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 9:11 AM
>>> To: n...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS
>>>
>>> Hi Nick,
>>>
>>> How stable has the Mikrotik been running full BGP with the two providers
> ?
>>> (I read about a memory leak issues, is that why you are using 5.0rc1
>>> ?) We have been considering getting a Mikrotik for such use.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Faisal Imtiaz
>>> Snappy Internet&   Telecom
>>>
>>> On 11/2/2010 9:21 AM, Nick Olsen wrote:
 We have two full tables running on mikrotik, in two different locations.

 Running that command
 /ip route print count-only where bgp-as-path="1234"
 Replacing the AS with "33363" (local cable company).
 Doesn't work on either of our routers for some reason (MT 5.0rc1 or
> 4.4).
 Our router running a core 2 2.93ghz can take two full feeds gets all
 the routes in about 4 seconds, And cpu load is idle about 13 seconds
>>> later.
 However making changes with routing filters take anywhere from
 10seconds to 2 minutes depending on what its doing.


 Nick Olsen
 Network Operations
 (855) FLSPEED x106



 ---

Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS

[Scott Reed]

You can plug one cable into 2 ports if it goes into a port that does 
bypassing.

I am just guessing you can't have 1 Ethernet cable plugged into 2 ports 
on a single box either.  When that port dies, all the redundancy in the 
box is worthless.

Just for clarification, the 2 boxes ARE redundant.  The amount of time 
required for fail-over does NOT define redundancy.  Two different 
things.  I agree, being fully redundant to reduce downtime to minutes 
and being fully redundant to reduce downtime to seconds or less are not 
the same from a business standpoint, but they are both redundant.

On 11/3/2010 10:38 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote:
> You also have the problem where you cant have 1 ethernet cable plugged into
> two routers at the same time, unless you add switches in the front, which
> then adds complexity to setup and another point of failure. There is no
> question that there is value to a hardware redundant single server, in a
> mission ciritical environment. The question is, can one afford it, and is it
> cost justified. MANY CAN cost justify it.  I cant.  Its also possible for
> redundant hardware to fail, so there is also value to having a fail over
> second router.
>
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL&  Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "can...@believewireless.net"
> To: "WISPA General List"
> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS
>
>
>> I think one of the main differences is BGP failover.  With one box,
>> your BGP session never drops.  With two distinct servers, the session
>> will drop and the second router will start it up.  Then, when the
>> primary comes back online, the session will drop again and restart.
>>
>>
>> 
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>
> 
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>

-- 
Scott Reed
Sr. Systems Engineer
GAB Midwest
1-800-363-1544 x2241
1-260-827-2241
Cell: 260-273-7239




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Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS

[Blake Covarrubias]

Scott,

I think others have already provided sufficient comments regarding the benefits 
hardware redundancy vs standby routers. We have both. Hardware redundancy in a 
GSR, router redundancy with another GSR in a separate geographical location. 
Continuous operation (hardware redundancy) in the event of a failure is our 
goal, but we're smart enough to realize we still need a backup for our backup 
(router redundancy).

Look up Cisco's Nonstop Forwarding for more info regarding Travis' comment 
about the ability to lose an RSP/CPU and still forward traffic.

--
Blake Covarrubias

On Nov 3, 2010, at 17:26, Scott Reed  wrote:

> OK, elaborate on how 2 distinct identical boxes is not hardware redundancy.  
> I think by the definition of redundancy, it is 100%. Webster: characterized 
> by similarity or repetition  
> On 11/3/2010 6:45 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote:
>> 
>> Jeff,
>> 
>> VXRs and down. Not GSR's and up. I wasn't entirely clear in my last message. 
>> Like Travis I was also commenting about the Cisco GSR / 12000 platform. I'm 
>> well aware of the performance of a Linux box compared to a VXR. We run a few 
>> VXR routers in our network in addition to GSR's, BSD routers, and MikroTik.
>> 
>> What you're describing really isn't true hardware redundancy. I'm also well 
>> aware of BGP and its use in a multi-homed environment. We have two separate 
>> GSRs acting as our edge routers. One in California, one in Arizona. Both 
>> routers have multiple eBGP peers, and run iBGP between them. They're 
>> connected by a series of licensed microwave radios with about 155mbps of 
>> bandwidth between the two. We'll be supplementing that link with a dedicated 
>> GigE fiber link in the coming months.
>> 
>> I'm not sure what you're getting at regarding bridging between two 
>> connections. There's no requirement to run a bridged network in order to 
>> operate iBGP.
>> 
>> I have no doubt Quagga works well in some BGP applications. We don't use it 
>> because we have requirements for performance & uptime which a Linux/BSD box 
>> cannot currently meet. We provide voice (TDM) and data services for 
>> companies in various industries such as mining, manufacturing, aerospace, 
>> defense, energy, cellular, and even other ISPs. We literally cannot afford 
>> to wrestle with the issues others on this list experience. If its not 
>> reliable we replace it. We don't have a problem paying for reliability.
>> 
>> --
>> Blake Covarrubias
>> 
>> On Nov 3, 2010, at 1:16 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Blake,
>>>  
>>> I’m not sure what sort of speeds you think Linux limits out at, but I 
>>> believe you might be surprised at how much throughput you can get.  We 
>>> generally blow the doors off of the VXRs and down.
>>>  
>>> There are two different ways of getting hardware redundancy.  One is with a 
>>> massively expensive single box, like the Cisco.  The other is to set up 
>>> redundant hardware…which is particularly good in a BGP application.  You 
>>> can have a relatively inexpensive router on each circuit, set up iBGP and 
>>> VRRP between the boxes, and BGP between the peers.  That way, if you lose 
>>> anything, all the in and outbound traffic fails to the other unit(s).  This 
>>> also allows for geographic separation of the routers.  If you can bridge 
>>> between the routers, you can have them in completely different 
>>> locations…thus keeping your network running if something really nasty 
>>> happens.
>>>  
>>> I can’t speak for the other companies, but ImageStream has been handling 
>>> BGP for around 10 years.  We use Quagga currently and we’ve found it to be 
>>> very stable, as our customers on-list have attested.  It’s one of our top 
>>> applications.
>>>  
>>> Regards,
>>>  
>>> Jeff
>>> ImageStream
>>> 800-813-5123 x106
>>>  
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
>>> Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 11:31 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS
>>>  
>>> Hardware redundancy, wire speed packet forwarding, support for more 
>>> Interface types, and more widely tested & stable software.
>>>  
>>> I'll use a MikroTik, Linux, or BSD box as an aggregation router any day; 
>>> terminate some VLANs, act as an MPLS CE, perform QoS marking, and 
>>> participate in an OSPF area. Probably nothing more. The level of hardware 
>>> redundancy & wire-speed forwarding isn't there for my needs.
>>>  
>>> If you're just knocking IOS, I realize it isn't the wave of the future. 
>>> Cisco does too & has developed IOS XR.
>>>  
>>> Linux, MikroTik, and I'm sure Vyatta & ImageStream are great platforms. 
>>> They compete well with Cisco in some areas...others not so much. Use what's 
>>> appropriate.
>>>  
>>> --
>>> Blake Covarrubias
>>> 
>>> On Nov 3, 2010, at 8:04, "Jeff Broadwick - Lists"  wrote:
>>> 
 I’m curious Travis…not looking for an argument.
  
 What specifically do you think is