Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices
Title: Thank You, I think the point about certification was specifically asked regarding the 5.4 version and having been approved for DFS. Thank You, Brian Webster Jerry Richardson wrote: That's been the ongoing argument. I use the analogy of a PCMCIA or USB card. that's the device that is FCC certified - the computer (routerboard) just runs it. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 2:53 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices Excuse my ignorance but since the card is the only thing that transmits why does the board and especially why does the enclosure need to be certified? If one puts a two way radio in a car the radio needs to be certified, not the whole car. Greg On Sep 14, 2009, at 8:30 PM, ralph wrote: Pretty broad statement: "MT is FCC Certified :)" Yes, I believe the wireless cards themselves might be- but even if they are, that does not an FCC certified system make. Please give me some FCC registration numbers of certified systems. Something like the RB/card/enclosure combination. Maybe someone built a system and had it tested and received a number for *that system*. Thanks -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 12:00 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices MT is FCC Certified :) --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training Author of "Learn RouterOS" -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of ralph Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 10:57 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices Marlon- You asked, and you probably already know what I will say Airaya and others: FCC Certified Mikrotik- Not so much It all depends on if you want to be legal or not. If you want 802.11, then look at the Ubiquiti Powerstation. Seems to work fine for us, just don't mount it outside. Ralph -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:19 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] backhaul choices Hi All, I have to upgrade a couple of backhaul systems and I'm wondering what others are using. I've got Airaya gear in place. I've LOVED it. That's been some of the most reliable gear that I've ever used. I also like my Mikrotik hardware so far. We've put quite a bit of it in over the last year or so. Both of the links I'm going to replace are indoor units with coax to the outdoor antennas. So no fancy weather issues to deal with. It would be nice to go with Airaya again. But the MT hardware to do the same job is about 20% of the cost last time I checked. I hate to go too cheap, but I hate to spend too much for no gain. What are you guys using these days? Again, the antennas and such are already in place, all I need to replace is the indoor ratios. Why would you install what you put in? laters, marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailm
Re: [WISPA] 3.65GHz Grandfathered satellite earth stations
Title: Thank You, I would try buying a mailing list, map the potential customers the fall within your wireless footprint, submit that as a batch and get one approval. You could use the same information for a targeted marketing campaign. Thank You, Brian Webster pat wrote: Anybody else having any luck with these people. They're trying to tell me I might have to clear all my customer sites for a proposed WiMax deployment on a case by case basis. I'm at the edge of the 150km exclusion zone and have a mountain range in between us. This is getting really annoying. Thanks, Pat WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] GPS mapping software
It might be cheaper just to pay someone to do RF propagation maps and post that information. I know someone who does that kind of work :-) Thank You, Brian Webster Cameron Kilton wrote: I have new site that I'm working on for deployment and want to be able to give customers a realistic coverage map of their town after I deploy the site. The idea: Rig vehicle with several antennas and drive around the town with Laptop and GPS unit connected to it and mark areas with coverage. Thoughts Suggestions? -Cameron WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Way to get Census Tract info for address in batch
Martha, How much is your time worth? I've been doing batch processing for WISP's for $100. Thank You, Brian Webster Martha Huizenga wrote: You can do a look up using http://www.batchgeocode.com/ which is free. I thought last year this gave me census tracts, but I must be wrong because this year, it only gives me lat and long. I wonder if these can then be translated into census tracts? Martha Huizenga DC Access, LLC 202-546-5898 */Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet!/**/ Connecting the Capitol Hill Community Join us on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Washington-DC/DC-Access-LLC/64096486706?ref=tsor follow us on Twitter http://twitter.com/dcaccess /* Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: Had something to do with downloading the shape files from the census site, then using a positioning gadget in Postgres, or something like that, to determine which tract the point was in. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com Jon Auer wrote: Do you know what he is using to do the census tract lookup? On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Matt Larsen - Listsli...@manageisp.com wrote: Martha Huizenga wrote: Hi, I thought there was a way to get Census Tract info in batch, but the web site I thought I used last time gives me Lat and Long. Can anyone suggest a free site? Thanks! Martha I don't know of any free sites that will do a batch of addresses, some out there will do a few at a time. My lead tech wrote a program that takes a batch of customer/GPS coordinates and returns the census tract information for each. We will actually get our 477 filed this time. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
And don't forget the disposal costs of batteries when they are no longer functional. Telephone companies have an extensive HAZMAT documentation and chain of custody requirement for their switch batteries. Don't think this industry will get away with not having some requirement like that for long :-) Thank You, Thank You, Brian Webster Tom DeReggi wrote: Patrick, In general, sounds like good advice. To clarify our intent, in posting. From yr 2000-2008, our model was to 1) Have minimum 12 hour run-time of battery for core cell sites. 2) Have contingency plan for hooking up a mobile gasoline powered generator, in longer lasting Emergencies. (We have a couple hot spare generators) Why are we changing our view point? 1) Many of the batteries have now died, and need replaced. Batteries are still very expensive. Propaine Generators have come way down in price (aka Generac) In most case, the generator will be less expensive than the batteries, based on watt load at the sites. 2) Our network has grown, but our staff size has shrunk. We realize the challenge that more than one site can loose power at once, and harder to get to multiple locations at once with generators. Its hard to know when batteries will hold or not, when towards the end of their life, so its always a rush with the genrators. 9/10 cases by the time we get generators onsite, the power gets restored within minutes. 3) Its easy to throw a generator on a Grant Application :-) We believe permanent onsite generators would likely increase uptime, and not necessarilly be more expensive, for some of our sites. (We'd of course still keep some patteries inline) The question is whether it will be more hassle than we realize to re-fill them and inspect them. Some people told me quarterly inspections are needed, or sometimes they do not start when needed. We are already connected to building generators, where we were allowed to, so we are looking at sites where our only option was to put in our own. I'm still uncertain what objections or preferences property management would have for this type stuff. For example, whether they would be concerned about it blowing up if a gas leak occured. I actually have one building in mind wher egetting a new electrical connector from the roof to the ground would be really a big pain. Would require Xray and drilling every floor of 20. There I'd like to put a roof mounted propaine generator. I was thinking maybe the best option is to just have a small external tank, and swap the tank after use? I would think where there is pre-existing riser space, I'd want to mount on ground level, and run thick gauge AC wire up. Mostly I was wondering if management companies look for specific features for the device, or if Generac would offer all standard features to meet the requirements of code and property managers. For our smaller watt sites, we'd of course stick with batteries. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Patrick Shoemaker" shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:07 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator Yes, it's possible to get a generator installed on a roof, but it will be an expensive project in our area due to the code compliance issues. However, most commercial buildings will have a preexisting emergency power system for critical loads installed already. There are strict requirements such as sub 10 second startup times, routine testing, and fuel availability requirements. If you talk to the building engineer, you might be able to convince them to allow you a small amount of power from an emergency circuit. The buildings I am in do this for most of their tenants for phone systems, etc. Failing that, have an electrician run conduit to the parking lot and place a power inlet down there. Be sure to have 24 hours of battery capacity, and use a trailer-mounted generator in the parking lot for the rare outage that lasts longer than the batteries. Patrick Shoemaker Vector Data Systems LLC shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com office: (301) 358-1690 x36 http://www.vectordatasystems.com Tom DeReggi wrote: While on the topic of generators. Anyone have advice on how to accommodate generators in Commercial Multi-tenant buildings. Several things come to mind... Gas generators are definately not allowed on roofs, for fire safety reasons. Adequate ventilation is likely needed for either gas or Propain generators. What type propain generators would likely gain permission to get installed in a rooftop penthouse? or Roof? If a propain generator was used on a top floor, how would Propain get re-fueled easilly? Is is standard proceedure to have removable tanks, and just have new tanks swapped (like a gas grill).? Or is is customary to have tanks
Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Small auto start generator
Title: Thank You, I'm just saying that if the telephone companies have a big requirement for tracking batteries, expect that this industry will get that level of attention soon. With all the stimulus money I would not be surprised if those requirements aren't already part of the grant compliance. Sure a small guy can exchange car or deep cycle batteries now at the parts store, I just would not expect that simplicity to last forever. Just pointing out that large battery systems will at some point have an additional liability to consider in the total cost of operation and ownership. Thank You, Brian Webster Josh Luthman wrote: Uhm...exchange them for 15 bucks off a new one... On 8/3/09, Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com wrote: And don't forget the disposal costs of batteries when they are no longer functional. Telephone companies have an extensive HAZMAT documentation and chain of custody requirement for their switch batteries. Don't think this industry will get away with not having some requirement like that for long :-) Thank You, Brian Webster Tom DeReggi wrote: Patrick, In general, sounds like good advice. To clarify our intent, in posting. From yr 2000-2008, our model was to 1) Have minimum 12 hour run-time of battery for core cell sites. 2) Have contingency plan for hooking up a mobile gasoline powered generator, in longer lasting Emergencies. (We have a couple hot spare generators) Why are we changing our view point? 1) Many of the batteries have now died, and need replaced. Batteries are still very expensive. Propaine Generators have come way down in price (aka Generac) In most case, the generator will be less expensive than the batteries, based on watt load at the sites. 2) Our network has grown, but our staff size has shrunk. We realize the challenge that more than one site can loose power at once, and harder to get to multiple locations at once with generators. Its hard to know when batteries will hold or not, when towards the end of their life, so its always a rush with the genrators. 9/10 cases by the time we get generators onsite, the power gets restored within minutes. 3) Its easy to throw a generator on a Grant Application :-) We believe permanent onsite generators would likely increase uptime, and not necessarilly be more expensive, for some of our sites. (We'd of course still keep some patteries inline) The question is whether it will be more hassle than we realize to re-fill them and inspect them. Some people told me quarterly inspections are needed, or sometimes they do not start when needed. We are already connected to building generators, where we were allowed to, so we are looking at sites where our only option was to put in our own. I'm still uncertain what objections or preferences property management would have for this type stuff. For example, whether they would be concerned about it blowing up if a gas leak occured. I actually have one building in mind wher egetting a new electrical connector from the roof to the ground would be really a big pain. Would require Xray and drilling every floor of 20. There I'd like to put a roof mounted propaine generator. I was thinking maybe the best option is to just have a small external tank, and swap the tank after use? I would think where there is pre-existing riser space, I'd want to mount on ground level, and run thick gauge AC wire up. Mostly I was wondering if management companies look for specific features for the device, or if Generac would offer all standard features to meet the requirements of code and property managers. For our smaller watt sites, we'd of course stick with batteries. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Patrick Shoemaker" shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:07 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator Yes, it's possible to get a generator installed on a roof, but it will be an expensive project in our area due to the code compliance issues. However, most commercial buildings will have a preexisting emergency power system for critical loads installed already. There are strict requirements such as sub 10 second startup times, routine testing, and fuel availability requirements. If you talk to the building engineer, you might be able to convince them to allow you a small amount of power from an emergency circuit. The buildings I am in do this for most of their tenants for phone systems, etc. Failing that, have an electrician run conduit to the parking lot and place a power inlet down there. Be sure to have 24 hours of battery capacity, and use a trailer-mounted generator in the parking lot for the rare outage that lasts longer than the batteries. Patrick Shoemaker Vector Data Systems LLC shoemak...@vectordatasystems.c
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
Title: Thank You, That point was actually clarified on the FAQ list posted. Thank You, Brian Webster St. Louis Broadband wrote: Thank You, Humm, not what I am reading into it. Lol, maybe I have read it too many times ;-) Victoria Proffer www.StLouisBroadband.com 314-974-5600 From: Brian Webster [mailto:bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 12:41 AM To: WISPA General List Cc: li...@stlbroadband.com Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. It's really 40% of the homes passed by the applicants designated service area. Same rules apply for the percentage of households who have access to broadband. The percentage is calculated over the area designated by the applicant as their complete project area. The only real chance you have to challenge is on the applications that come in as unserved, but even then the RUS and NTIA have said they will reserve the right to then convert that application to an underserved one. Thank You, Brian Webster RickG wrote: Is that 40% of homes passed or 40% of LOS? On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 12:40 AM, St. Louis Broadbandli...@stlbroadband.com wrote: They will be posted, for 30 days, on the NTIA site during their "due diligence" phase. Any ISP that contests will have to provide the proof that they have a 40% take rate. Victoria Proffer www.StLouisBroadband.com 314-974-5600 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 11:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. And on that note, where can you find a list of applications? -RickG On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Mike Hammettwispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: If someone comes in and undercuts you, it's your fault for not protesting their application. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Kurt Fankhauser" k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:51 AM To: "'WISPA General List'" wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. Yesterday there was a broadband stimulus seminar in Columbus, OH featuring Senator Sherrod Brown, ConnectOhio.org, USDA Rural Development. I went with an open mind and left not wanting anything to do with this "free money" to be had. The government is trying to get as much control out of the ISP's that take this money as they possibly can. The reporting requirements for ISP's that take this money is a huge burden. This makes FCC Form 477 look like a walk in the park compared to what they want to know. There are about 30-50 things that they want you to report on and some of it is just crazy. I can't list it all but they basically want to know what brand of toilet paper and how much of it you use per customer.. And this will apply to your entire existing infrastructure that was in place before you took the money. They can come in and look at all your confidential records anytime they want. They can even change the rules years down the road and possibly tell you what to charge your customer per month to what they think is fair. They can also tell you how to do your QoS and what you can and can not block. This sounds like the same deal with the bank bailouts from last year that once they took the money and found out what role the government wanted to do with them that they wanted to give it all back but wasn't allowed. The majority of the attendees once we got into the workshops and started talking among each other was that they don't want anything to do with this money at all either once they found out all the hidden strings attached to it. They are encouraging few larger projects than many smaller ones. I asked them what about the area that already has 2-3 fixed wireless ISP's and if they give the money to a ve
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
Title: Thank You, It's really 40% of the homes passed by the applicants designated service area. Same rules apply for the percentage of households who have access to broadband. The percentage is calculated over the area designated by the applicant as their complete project area. The only real chance you have to challenge is on the applications that come in as unserved, but even then the RUS and NTIA have said they will reserve the right to then convert that application to an underserved one. Thank You, Brian Webster RickG wrote: Is that 40% of homes passed or 40% of LOS? On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 12:40 AM, St. Louis Broadbandli...@stlbroadband.com wrote: They will be posted, for 30 days, on the NTIA site during their "due diligence" phase. Any ISP that contests will have to provide the proof that they have a 40% take rate. Victoria Proffer www.StLouisBroadband.com 314-974-5600 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 11:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. And on that note, where can you find a list of applications? -RickG On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Mike Hammettwispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: If someone comes in and undercuts you, it's your fault for not protesting their application. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Kurt Fankhauser" k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:51 AM To: "'WISPA General List'" wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. Yesterday there was a broadband stimulus seminar in Columbus, OH featuring Senator Sherrod Brown, ConnectOhio.org, USDA Rural Development. I went with an open mind and left not wanting anything to do with this "free money" to be had. The government is trying to get as much control out of the ISP's that take this money as they possibly can. The reporting requirements for ISP's that take this money is a huge burden. This makes FCC Form 477 look like a walk in the park compared to what they want to know. There are about 30-50 things that they want you to report on and some of it is just crazy. I can't list it all but they basically want to know what brand of toilet paper and how much of it you use per customer.. And this will apply to your entire existing infrastructure that was in place before you took the money. They can come in and look at all your confidential records anytime they want. They can even change the rules years down the road and possibly tell you what to charge your customer per month to what they think is fair. They can also tell you how to do your QoS and what you can and can not block. This sounds like the same deal with the bank bailouts from last year that once they took the money and found out what role the government wanted to do with them that they wanted to give it all back but wasn't allowed. The majority of the attendees once we got into the workshops and started talking among each other was that they don't want anything to do with this money at all either once they found out all the hidden strings attached to it. They are encouraging few larger projects than many smaller ones. I asked them what about the area that already has 2-3 fixed wireless ISP's and if they give the money to a very large outfit that comes into the area and undercuts the smaller guys by $5/month and runs them out of business if that could happen and they said it probably would. I said well you just killed 3 small businesses to create a larger one what the heck did you just accomplish that for and they just gave me a blank stare like I was crazy. This is not about getting broadband internet to un-served/underserved area's, this entire stimulus is about the government trying to gain as much control as they possibly can into the ISP business.. I'm going to start running ads saying "go with us, we refused to take the stimulus money." Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] BroadbandUSA map corrections....
It's not anymore, they pulled it down. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: Victoria Proffer [mailto:victo...@stlbroadband.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 7:51 AM To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; memb...@wispa.org; 'Motorola Canopy List'; 'WISPA List' Subject: RE: [WISPA Members] BroadbandUSA map corrections Brian, Where is that map located? Victoria Proffer www.StLouisBroadband.com 314-974-5600 From: members-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:members-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 12:01 AM To: memb...@wispa.org; Motorola Canopy List; WISPA List Subject: [WISPA Members] BroadbandUSA map corrections I guess my email to one of the USDA ARRA Economists last night got some attention. I had discovered an error in what they were reporting as rural areas. They had not followed the NOFA rules and included the urbanized area boundary files around cites that had a population of over 50,000. Here is a note on their web site as of today: The BIP Map of Non-Rural Areas has been removed until further notice, as some of the non-rural areas were incorrectly represented. Please refer to the definition in the NOFA for which areas should be considered rural areas. We apologize for the inconvenience while we make critical enhancements to the map. They do listen to input :-) Thank You, Brian Webster WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] BroadbandUSA map corrections....
I guess my email to one of the USDA ARRA Economists last night got some attention. I had discovered an error in what they were reporting as rural areas. They had not followed the NOFA rules and included the urbanized area boundary files around cites that had a population of over 50,000. Here is a note on their web site as of today: The BIP Map of Non-Rural Areas has been removed until further notice, as some of the non-rural areas were incorrectly represented. Please refer to the definition in the NOFA for which areas should be considered rural areas. We apologize for the inconvenience while we make critical enhancements to the map. They do listen to input :-) Thank You, Brian Webster WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question re: WISP for sale
I would certainly map out your network and show the total number of households able to be reached, not just base it on the number of subscribers you have. I know someone who can do that type of work :-) But not until after August 14th. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Patrick D. Nix, Jr Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 3:21 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Question re: WISP for sale I apologize as I know this has been discussed on the list before. We are entertaining the idea of selling out of our respectable size wireless ISP business in eastern Oklahoma. We have about 500 (growing daily) subscribers. Anyway, we are working on determining the net worth of the business. Any thoughts or formulas for determining this? Patrick Nix, Jr., Computer Network Solutions CSWEB.NET Internet Services IT Manager http://www.cnetworksolutions.com http://www.csweb.net (918) 235-0414 Attention: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question re: WISP for sale
More than you could imagine :-) Sleep is a luxury right now. If things go according to plan I will have the National Broadband map done in the next 20 days..at a fraction of the $350 million dollars. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 (607) 643-4055 Office (607) 435-3988 Mobile (208) 692-1898 Fax www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: Charles Wyble [mailto:char...@thewybles.com] Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 4:03 PM To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question re: WISP for sale ROFL ... NTIA got you all tied up ? :) Brian Webster wrote: I would certainly map out your network and show the total number of households able to be reached, not just base it on the number of subscribers you have. I know someone who can do that type of work :-) But not until after August 14th. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Patrick D. Nix, Jr Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 3:21 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Question re: WISP for sale I apologize as I know this has been discussed on the list before. We are entertaining the idea of selling out of our respectable size wireless ISP business in eastern Oklahoma. We have about 500 (growing daily) subscribers. Anyway, we are working on determining the net worth of the business. Any thoughts or formulas for determining this? Patrick Nix, Jr., Computer Network Solutions CSWEB.NET Internet Services IT Manager http://www.cnetworksolutions.com http://www.csweb.net (918) 235-0414 Attention: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Broadband Mapping NOFA
I haven't had a chance to read this NOFA yet but have seen some of the summaries. I won't be applying for anything directly but may get involved with a few projects around the county through others. One of the difficult issues will be for those who want to provide service in underserved areas. Finding an acceptable method for determining a 40% market penetration rate can be labor intensive and costly. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Joe Miller Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 11:03 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Broadband Mapping NOFA Brian, Have you had a chance to see this yet? Notice of Funding Availability (NOFA) for the State Broadband Data and Development Grant Program. It is on the following link, http://broadbandusa.sc.egov.usda.gov/index.htm WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Cordless VOIP Phone
My GE DECT 6.0 phones have range far better than any other cordless phone I've owned. It's a huge difference. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Jeremy Parr Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 4:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Cordless VOIP Phone 2009/7/7 Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net: The advantage of DECT is that it uses a custom frequency. You don't have to worry about interference with any of your WISP gear. Yeah, I have deployed quite a bit of DECT, but if he isn't running any 900mhz, then a Senao is a much better option. The range is very bad with the DECT stuff, even the fancy multi-thousand dollar enterprise base stations. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] CO local loop distance calculation tool - use to help price any T1 replacement business
Just thought I would pass along a piece of software I found that lets you input an address and calculate the local loop distance to the CO. If you know what the Telco is charging for local loop, you can better understand the competition's price when you try and sell T1 replacement business. There's no sense leaving money on the table when you don't have to. If the customer is getting a price quote significantly lower than what they have been expecting to pay, they may be hesitant to go with your service for fear that too low a price might mean low quality. http://stuffsoftware.com/ Thank You, Brian Webster WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Customers are great
When I was at EarthLink we had a study commissioned by an organization and these types of customer mentalities were going to be the norm due to the choice of words in marketing the product. The general perception by the masses was that if it was wireless they would expect their laptops to work anywhere. The general consumer just doesn't have the experience or the understanding of the network architecture and with the ubiquitous term wireless they lump that in with many things. There is no differentiation to the average public. Sad but this is a reality all WISP's will come across more often than not if their service gains mass adoption and the term wireless is used heavily in their marketing. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 4:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Customers are great *Slams head on desk* Does it make any logical sense for those two little rabbit ear antennas in your house to be able to reach Chicago? On 5/20/09, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: Seriously, wireless technology keeps advancing faster than anyone's ability to educate the general public about what wireless is. Steve Barnes wrote: I operate a Fixed Wireless ISP in a 1 county area in eastern Indiana. I got a call from a client this morning very upset that her internet was down. My secretary very nicely tried to help the client understand that we would help figure out the problem but that we had not received any other calls from other clients on the tower and that we would have a tech help her out. The tech gets on the phone and starts looking at the tower and the radio to see that there is no issue and can even see that the ARP table shows a connection to their router at the house. Tech: So my secretary says that your internet isn't working. Client: Right, it worked earlier today on this same laptop but now nothing. Tech: Has anything changed today, power blink or anything that you are aware of. Client: not that I know of. Tech: Have you gone through the process of rebooting the Radio and Router. Client: How am I supposed to do that. Tech: Just unplug the power to those two units. Client: I can't get to them right now. Tech: Oh I am sorry we must have installed them in a way that is inaccessible, can you tell me how your laptop is hooked up wireless or via the Ethernet cable. Client: Well its wireless at home and its wireless here in my car. Tech: Not that it's my business but why are you in your car. Client: I'm on my way to Chicago. Tech: So your not at home. Client: No, 75 miles from home. Tech: Do you have a wireless card from you cellular carrier. Client: No I have your service. You guys said that if I bought a router I could use it anywhere. Tech: Anywhere in your home. Client: What good will that do me in Chicago. Tech: I'm Sorry Our service is a Fixed Wireless internet service to your location and the wireless router lets the signal go 300ft at the most. That is your service area. That's what you get for $39 a month. Client: That's really great that's not what I want. How do I get a contract that will cover the whole country. Tech: Verizon or sprint. Client: But I can't even use my cellophane at home the signal is so bad. Tech: It's a better signal then your router will be in Chicago. Steve Barnes RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Follow me on Twitter - wireless_jack -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
Mark, But those rules are under Part 90 and not Part 15. Two different sets of rules as I recall. The 3.65 band is FCC Part 90 and the unlicensed bands are not. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of rea...@muddyfrogwater.us Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC Nonsense, Matt. Read the grant yourself. The grant is MODULAR certification, meaning you can use the module in any way you choose, so long as you lable the device as containing blah blah and comply with the antenna rules. This is very explicitly true. I believe that UBNT has written correspondence from the FCC on this. I know someone has, I've seen it and read it. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC On May 12, 2009, at 4:21 PM, Scott Carullo wrote: Ok... so back to original dilemma... I take a XR5, the precise antenna they certified with this radio card, a RB411 and hook it all up and use it myself within FCC RF guidelines. Criminal or law abiding citizen... Neither, but you would be in violation of the FCC regulations and be subject to civil penalties. Think about this like tax law. Imagine someone makes a great case about how you can avoid taxes legally by doing a certain thing. You may believe the person and the person's reasons may seem perfectly logical. However, would it be smart to follow them? Probably not without signoff from a CPA and/or tax attorney. -Matt -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Response to the FCC Regarding Form 477
signatureFact of the matter is, Geocoding an address to a set of coordinates has always been an inaccurate process. As Matt stated, in areas where they have not done 911 Addressing, there is no real way to place an address in the proper spot. Even with 911 address data it will only plot the location to the proper section of road frontage, not on the actual structure. Then you have the issues of garbage 911 data or garbage Census data in the Tiger files. Don't get me started on how the tracts in many cases are even larger areas than the zip code ZCTA polygons for rural markets. It's very difficult when there are policy decisions made for mapping and GIS processes by people who really don't understand the full ramifications and limitations of the systems. Matt and others reading this post. I would not spend a great deal of time worrying about the accuracy of the tract data. The polygons are so much larger in most areas of the rural markets, you aren't going to give the FCC and other data crunchers any better information than they had with zip codes in the first place. The real flaw in what they are doing is the all or nothing approach to showing a Zip or Tract served. Rather than allowing just one reported subscriber to show it served, they should be showing a percentage of the area served. They have the number of households served in each polygon (either by Zip or Tract). They also can total the number of households by zip or tract. A simple division of the total subscribers by total households can show the percentage served. THAT would be a much better data set than all other methods they are trying today. While it won't show exactly where the service is, they would have a better idea of how to set a percentage served threshold for which to fund the grant applications. They can do this TODAY and move forward. It amazes me how sometimes things like simple math can't be applied to solve problems :-) Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: motorola-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:motorola-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Martha Huizenga Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 12:59 PM To: WISPA General List Cc: w...@part-15.org; Motorola Canopy User Group Subject: Re: [Motorola II] [WISPA] Response to the FCC Regarding Form 477 Hi Matt, This was a great note to the FCC! Well done. This doesn't help me, since I am an urban WISP, but my guess is that as you stated a lot of rural WISPs either had this problem and knew it and just decided to file inaccurate data or didn't know the data was inaccurate. It certainly should help the FCC to know that they chose a parameter that wasn't as easy as they stated (here is a list of vendors for Geocoding info : ). I know I had to do mine by hand and contemplated just picking a few tracts to enter for all my customers, which would have been very inaccurate. Martha Martha Huizenga DC Access, LLC 202-546-5898 Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet! Connecting the Capitol Hill Community Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: I thought I would share this email that I just sent to the FCC regarding the Form 477 report. I am late filing this report because we don't have accurate data and thought that my reasons why were worth sharing with my colleagues. I support what the FCC is trying to do with Form477, but was not able to in good conscience turn in our data by the report deadline. I hope that this is valuable to some of you out there. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com --- Hi Suzanne, I am not really in a position where I can give a projected date to have this information completed for you. However, I do feel it would be valuable to explain why and provide you and your management some more information as to why I am unable to give you a better date on when we intend to have it completed. For background, Vistabeam (Inventive Wireless of Nebraska) is a wireless ISP that covers about 40,000 square miles in Nebraska and Wyoming. We have around 2000 customers spread out across this very thinly populated area. Even though we are quite small in customer number compared to other ISPs, we have a very good billing and provisioning system and quite a bit of detail on our customers. However, we did not have census tract information for our customers as there had never been a need for it until the latest Form477 notice came out earlier this year. Once we received the Form477 notice, we made plans to modify our billing system to add the census tract information, which we were successful in doing. We also studied how to obtain geocoding information from multiple sources and how to integrate this into our database so that we could complete the report. Our initial integration seemed to be successful until we started to look at the geocoding data that we received and realized that over 50% of the census tract information was invalid. After going through this data, we found that many of the addresses we have for customers are simply
Re: [WISPA] Response to the FCC Regarding Form 477
Here is a copy of a post I made back in March about the relationships to Tracts, Zip codes, Census Bock Groups and Census Blocks, the full post is here with views to larger map images: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r22157982-National-Broadband-availability-a- simple-solution-to-mapping National Broadband availability a simple solution to mapping [del] Zip Code Tabulation Areas (ZCTA Polygons) [del] Census Tracts [del] Census Block Groups [del] Census Blocks (smaller thumbnails) The 350 million dollars allocated for a national broadband mapping is way more than necessary. Read through this message to get an idea of the issue and examine the attached maps to see what we are dealing with using any particular level of mapping detail. This is obviously just my opinion but one worth consideration. I have attached map images of Tom Green County, Texas with the different polygons the Census Bureau uses in their demographic tabulations. I chose this county because it seems to be a decent cross section of rural America but also has a high population density area. »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Green_···y,_Texas Here are the raw numbers, but you need to look at the attached images to see how the totals can be deceiving when compared to the map: Zip Code Tabulation areas = 13 Polygons (These polygons are made up by the Census Bureau, the post office does not create zip code polygons, zip codes are linear routing for them) The FCC already has this data collected using the Form 477. Census Tracts = 23 Polygons (look in the rural areas outside San Angelo to see that they are actually much bigger than the zip code areas) This is the level of reporting required on the new Form 477. Census Block Groups = 101 Polygons Census Blocks = 5241 Polygons (even in the rural areas these are much smaller than Tracts or Zip Codes). Blocks are the most granular level studied by the Census. The problem with the FCC data in the current state is, if there is just one single customer reported as served in a polygon, they show the whole area as being served by broadband. We know the number of households in each of the polygons (Census 2000 Figures). If the FCC totaled the number of subscribers for all form 477 respondents (by zip code) and then divided that by the total households, we could have a percentage of the households served within each polygon. This would be much better than an all or nothing reporting method. This would also not cost anywhere near 350 million dollars to report broadband availability to the public. If the total subscribers was aggregated by all carriers (removing the data for Satellite Internet), you would not know the specific totals for each provider, thus preserving private information. Just thought I would post this for all to see and become familiar with the issue. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Martha Huizenga Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 12:59 PM To: WISPA General List Cc: w...@part-15.org; Motorola Canopy User Group Subject: Re: [WISPA] Response to the FCC Regarding Form 477 Hi Matt, This was a great note to the FCC! Well done. This doesn't help me, since I am an urban WISP, but my guess is that as you stated a lot of rural WISPs either had this problem and knew it and just decided to file inaccurate data or didn't know the data was inaccurate. It certainly should help the FCC to know that they chose a parameter that wasn't as easy as they stated (here is a list of vendors for Geocoding info : ). I know I had to do mine by hand and contemplated just picking a few tracts to enter for all my customers, which would have been very inaccurate. Martha Martha Huizenga DC Access, LLC 202-546-5898 */Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet!/**/ Connecting the Capitol Hill Community /* Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: I thought I would share this email that I just sent to the FCC regarding the Form 477 report. I am late filing this report because we don't have accurate data and thought that my reasons why were worth sharing with my colleagues. I support what the FCC is trying to do with Form477, but was not able to in good conscience turn in our data by the report deadline. I hope that this is valuable to some of you out there. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com --- Hi Suzanne, I am not really in a position where I can give a projected date to have this information completed for you. However, I do feel it would be valuable to explain why and provide you and your management some more information as to why I am unable to give you a better date on when we intend to have it completed. For background, Vistabeam (Inventive Wireless of Nebraska) is a wireless ISP that covers about 40,000 square miles in Nebraska and Wyoming. We have around 2000 customers spread out across this very thinly populated area. Even though we are quite
Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping
Here are some web sites to check out: Connected Nation Projects: http://www.connectky.com/ http://connectohio.org/ http://www.connectmn.org/mapping/ http://www.connectedtn.org/broadband_landscape/ http://connectwestvirginia.org/mapping_and_research/state_maps.php http://www.publicknowledge.org/ - This group has been very critical of Connected Nation and there have been exchanges between the parties on other wed sites. Connected Nation's responses are interesting reading. Couple that with the membership of Connected Nation's Board of Directors and you can draw your own conclusions. Enter Connected Nation in the search bar to bring up many articles. http://benton.org/node/15506#comment-28 - Here are comments by Connected Nation in rebuttal to PublicKnowledge.org. While it seems these two groups are in a pretty good fight against each other, I tend to read through the emotions and look directly at the facts. Connected Nation's response still will not explore mapping options so that they can release the data. They just defend their position that the data must be kept under NDA. http://www.connectednation.org/who_we_are/national_advisors/ This the list of the companies who make up Connected Nation's Board of Directors. My fear is that of the money set aside for broadband mapping, politics will get in the way and Connected Nation will get much if not all of the funds based on their political connections. Connected Nation has a lot of momentum inside the beltway. I have personally developed methods to where broadband mapping can be done on a Nationwide Basis using data that does not require any NDA. I need to spend some time to verify the process so that it would survive scientific scrutiny. All of the data is based on information already in the public domain. Connected Nation could have done this same work. I don't think they want to. With the think tank of people and skills they have at their disposal, I find it hard to believe I am the only one who could have figured out how to do this.. Thank You, Brian Webster WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping
Tom, I think you misunderstood my position. I have reviewed many of connected nations' completed projects and their mapping methodologies. In other aspects of taxpayer funded mapping efforts, the resulting data has been put in the public domain because the taxpayers own the right to the results. Having connected nation do a mapping effort funded by the taxpayers, and then not give anyone access to the data except for a pdf map, is not in the public best interest. We saw the board makeup of connected nation when they asked if WISPA wanted to join. As we all discovered, those board members are largely made up of people from the Telco and Cable companies. That is where they get their clout. That is also why they stick to their guns and map the broadband data under NDA and won't release the results. I am not against the broadband mapping initiative at all. I support the concept of mapping, just not the way connected nation has done it in the past. I also feel it is dangerous putting the projects in the hands of organizations who could be subject to the perception of not being completely objective. There are many states that have already done a good job of mapping broadband or are well on their way. California did a nice one (http://www.calink.ca.gov/taskforcereport/), Maine and others have also put a lot of work in to their programs. It's important to read and understand each projects mapping methodologies to establish how much of a statistical margin of error their results can contain. Nothing is going to be perfect, but it can also be said that it's easy to sway results depending on how you report data in statistical form. From a rural broadband perspective, a simple overstatement of a service area by say 5 or 10 percent can lock out a large number of households that might be the difference in making a rural WISP or other ISP business case possible. In the case of KY or OH, there are no provisions for others to view the comprehensive data sets for either broadband studies or other purposes. The only result provided was a pdf map and a web site where you can inquire based on a single address point. If connected nation has not figured out how to map broadband in a manor where they can release the data when finished, then the taxpayer is not getting their best value. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 4:02 PM To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping Brian, Thats where I disagree. I'm surprised to hear it come from you. Quick Note: Just two years ago, CN was nobody. They have gotten clout because they got off their hind side and started working on a solution to the problem. But CN has had lots of critisim, they are not invincible. What you should be doing is writting your ticket to financial freedom, by preparing plans for WISPs. Grant awardees can't write checks to themselves, but they can write checks to their solution providers and contractors necessary to fullfil their obligations of and goals for their grants. Brian, many WISPs like your work and see the value, but aren't paying you now for services because they simply don't have the budget for it. The grant program is an opportunity to get in in the budget. If mapping isn't included in their grant apps, it won't likely be in their budget after their award either. It might be hard to get a seperate grant for mapping. But its real easy to add a line item to an existing application. If I were you, I'd be putting togeather the deluxe package for WISPs to include in their applications, and it doesn't have to be cheaper. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping Amen Rick I've always maintained the thought that the 350 Million was another back door political payback to the Telco and cable companies via Connected Nation. With the fact that this funding gets put out there and then the data never really becomes available because of the NDA's signed, it just smells like a pork barrel project to me. Your explanation just backs up that idea. If you want to map broadband, go to a small organization like myself. We can do the work for tenths of a penny on the dollar these guys are quoting. You just build that cost in to the rest of your stimulus project and move on. Trying to take on Connected Nation is a losing battle. Just step around them and move forward..there are plenty of ways to map the competitive broadband in a market without proprietary data and you can successfully do it to convince the organizations that are handing out money. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping
Charles, I am not against this stimulus package nor the mapping effort. There has been considerable criticism of connected nation and where they have responded to same, I have watched carefully. Technically they have made the data available to the public and to the uninitiated decision makers, they think this is great. The format for which they have released the data is not what makes good use of a taxpayer funded mapping program. GIS and mapping should be considered a large Boolean logic system. In the same way you would do searches for key words using an internet search engine, mapping data layers can be used in a similar fashion. For example, if the broadband GIS data results were openly available, communities and/or individuals could build an application where you could ask things like, show me homes for sale in the $200,000 range with 3 bedrooms, in x school district in y municipality that have broadband. Today you as a citizen, who funded projects like the Census , have access to data sets which allow you to gather that type of information. The broadband mapping should be made available in the same formats. Maps in pdf format do not meet that criteria. Connected Nation has gone to great lengths to technically release their results, but also have hobbled the process and not made the real data available to even the government agencies. Think about that when all the grant applications start streaming in and the reviewers are trying to verify the communities that have or don't have broadband. There are many uses and benefits to keeping the data in the public domain. Public policy and academic groups would use this as an additional data element for their socio economic studies, other industries who might be privately looking to locate new facilities, could use it and make sure the infrastructure they need would be located on otherwise suitable property. There are many others uses that I am aware of and probably many more that I wouldn't have though about. Point being is that connected nation does not share this philosophy. For the money they have spent on mapping projects to date, they could have easily gathered and compiled the same results using other methods with publically available data. They chose not to, and obtained information under NDA. I question if they did this because they took the lazy route or if it was done intentionally. The slightest little differences in the wording of contracts or final rules would go unnoticed to the casual observer, but in the end will make a huge difference in the benefit and usability to the final product. I would love to lead a crusade to make sure this does not happen and to help educate all the policy makers involved. Unfortunately that takes a great deal of time and connections to get in front of the right people. As one individual I have neither. I have been talking to other groups that may have the resources to do so. I continue to offer my help and expertise in hopes that the best solutions will prevail to the maximum benefit of the taxpayer. The WISP industry would benefit a great deal by keeping access to the results open. It will go a long way in helping determine market viability for a particular business plan. It would also make the process and expense to apply for these grants less costly. I made the statement to move ahead despite the mapping effort only because I fear that the worst would happen and the data will only be available in formats such as in Kentucky and Ohio. Those maps are all but useless when you need to answer complex questions like the number of households not served by broadband but would be under your project proposal. All important information under the grant processes. The statement was meant to say that you can still do it without the national mapping effort and at a much lower cost. This is a very complex issue and difficult to debate the points though email or list format. Out of frustration I hastily sent of a response and did not clearly state my thoughts on the topic. As a mapping geek I could drone on forever about the topic. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: Charles Wyble [mailto:char...@thewybles.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 4:15 PM To: WISPA General List Cc: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com Subject: Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping Preach it Tom! Wake up folks. Regardless of your political views, your approval/disapproval of the stimulus package it's out there and the money is becoming available. WE PAID INTO THIS WITH OUR TAXES! IT'S OUR MONEY! I don't know about all you, but I have been preparing business and product plans since November and am waiting like a hawk for the grant process to be defined. Tom DeReggi wrote: Brian, Thats where I disagree. I'm surprised to hear it come from you. Quick Note: Just two years ago, CN was nobody. They have gotten clout because they got off their hind side and started working on a solution
Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping
Amen Rick I've always maintained the thought that the 350 Million was another back door political payback to the Telco and cable companies via Connected Nation. With the fact that this funding gets put out there and then the data never really becomes available because of the NDA's signed, it just smells like a pork barrel project to me. Your explanation just backs up that idea. If you want to map broadband, go to a small organization like myself. We can do the work for tenths of a penny on the dollar these guys are quoting. You just build that cost in to the rest of your stimulus project and move on. Trying to take on Connected Nation is a losing battle. Just step around them and move forward..there are plenty of ways to map the competitive broadband in a market without proprietary data and you can successfully do it to convince the organizations that are handing out money. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Rick Harnish Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 7:23 PM To: ccoo...@intelliwave.com; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping Chris, It is my understanding that this bill was specifically written for Connected Nation. In a conversation today in Indianapolis I was told that if you divide $350 million by 50 states you get $7,000,000 per state. This is approximately 80% of the $9,000,000 contract they recently signed with Ohio or Tennessee. The 80% number coincidentally matches up with the current thinking on the Broadband Stimulus Grants with 20% coming from the awardees and 80% coming from the Federal Government. If this assumption is correct, it didn't take Connected Nation long to come up with a number to present to the legislators that sponsored the bill. I'm not saying that this funding won't be allocated to other grantees but I have been told that it will be extremely difficult to buck this legislation given the current political clout that Connected Nation seems to have. That is not to say that the states themselves will get control of the funding and will make those decisions separately. Respectfully, Rick Harnish -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of chris cooper Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] NTIA mapping There is a $350 million mapping component set aside under BTOP. Will this funding be available in smaller chunks to successful grantees to map their expanded networks? Will it be available to all wisps to map their existing networks in an effort to add to the overall national BB map? Chris Cooper Intelliwave WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.4/2082 - Release Date: 04/27/09 06:19:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] cellular RF
Their EIRP would probably no higher than 40 watts or so. They do not run very high power because they have full duplex links between the site and the phone users. There is no advantage to transmitting high power if the low power phone can not talk back to the site. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of chris cooper Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 3:17 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] cellular RF We are looking at co-lo on a structure that is also home to a cellular array. Tower owners say there is not enough RF power emitted from the cell antennas to warrant turning them down to climb past them. Antennas are on frames, so we would be climbing underneath and behind them on our way through. Any reason to be concerned? What is the eirp on a cell antenna anyway? Thanks Chris WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bad Geocoding Data
Matt, Geocoding is never an exact science nor can it possibly be as accurate as the actual obtained coordinates for a client. Geocoding first relies on the accuracy of the Census Tiger line mapping databases. All mapping companies use this as a base and then do various levels of data checking and refinement to improve the results. Important facts to note about geocoding: - The result will only resolve to the road frontage not the structure. - 911 Addressing is supposed to be standardized so that every 50 feet or so of road frontage has an actual numeric address. If a locality has deviated from the standard you will get inaccurate results from some mapping sources. - Tiger map data knows the range of address numbers between intersections and will estimate the point along the highway based on the 50 foot rule. - Some geocoding software will tell you the accuracy for which it resolved the address record. - For different parts of the country different companies have different levels of accuracy based on their efforts to improve the data. - There are only three or four major companies that do this type of work and therefore most mapping companies will contract for that data. This is why you can see the same errors from different sources. They all used the same data source. GDT is one of the big sources. When I geocode addresses using GIS software, I can get results back that tell me at which level of accuracy I was able to achieve. It can fail to create a point on whatever level I wish. The three basic levels are, building match, street match which means it placed it on where the address should be along the road, and then zip code match. For the zip code match it will place the location at the default centroid point defined by that zip code polygon. It will not always be the post office. the quality of how the address data is formatted can make a huge difference as well. How people abbreviate some things will cause wildly different results. On the topic of zip codes, it is important to note that the post office does not define polygons and zip code areas. That was something the Census Bureau created. Zip codes are a linear routing function. If you would like a full explanation with illustrations go to this link http://www.manifold.net/doc/manifold.htm which is the software user manual. Click on the index button and go to the z section and look at the topic zip codes are not areas The majority of the Geocoding problems are a result of the garbage in garbage out syndrome of any database system. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 10:51 AM To: WISPA General List; w...@part-15.org Subject: [WISPA] Bad Geocoding Data This article in the LA Times: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-geocoding-errors5-2009apr05,0,596628 5.story This documents the reasoning for why I have not completed my Form 477 data yet. Nearly 40% of my customer base will have to be re-coded for the Form 47 because the geocoding databases are incorrect. My lead tech has exported the geocode data out of Freeside and into Google Earth, sorted by AP. When we look at the data, a very high percentage of our customers have GPS coordinates of Post Office of their town/village. We still have a lot of county road and rural route addresses in this area, and they don't geocode correctly. Data with 40% noise borders on useless. I applaud the spirit behind the 477, but asking us to provide this granular data without the right tools to assemble the data and verify it makes it a nearly unanswerable proposition. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] For mapping Zip codes are not polygons or areas.....
Thought I would try to post a good explanation of why zip codes technically are not polygons. With all the mapping talk and efforts these days, it's an interesting fact to note. This explanation comes from the user manual of my GIS program, www.manifold.net Zip Codes are Not Areas ZIP codes are postal codes in the United States created by the US Postal Service. Perhaps the most common misconception in GIS is that Zip codes are polygonal regions or areas. People often think of mapping in the US as a hierarchy of ever-subdivided polygonal areas: states, counties, cities, zip codes. If they need higher resolution than a county, they next leap to zip codes because they think of zip codes as polygons. This is not true. Zip codes are linear features associated with specific roads or with specific addresses such as apartment buildings or military bases that are best regarded as a point. In some cases, Zip codes have no physical location because they are assigned to a mobile or abstract location such as a military ship. Even in the most common case of Zip codes assigned to streets, Zip codes do not clump together in groups that may be covered by rational polygons. We can consider an example using a map of part of Reno, Nevada, shown below. This map is fairly typical of the situation in mid-sized urban areas. It is extracted from the US Census Bureau's TIGER/Line 1997 data set, which includes roads as segments of lines, with most line segments coded with Zip and Zip+4 codes for that particular segment. In this note, we will refer to both Zip codes and the Zip+4 extension together under the name Zip code. To create polygons from road lines where lines have a common zip code there are several approaches. One possible approach is to select all line segments with the same Zip code and to then draw an area (polygon) that encloses them. This can be done by creating a buffer zone about each street line having a particular Zip code and then doing a Union of the buffer zone areas thus created. The blue, purple and green areas were created in this way and each represent a a different Zip code value. The road lines shown in red selection color all have yet another Zip code in common. Immediately there are three pathologies visible in this map. First, note that the blue area is not contiguous. Second, note that there are many regions of overlap between the blue and the purple areas and between the purple and green areas (we should have used varying layer opacity so that the regions of overlap were clearer). Third, note that at least one road segment highlighted in red (all having the same Zip code) occurs inside the purple zone where it is completely surrounded by all adjacent streets having a different Zip code. The above situation is extremely common. In fact, we used this particular map at random because it happened to be a part of the Reno area in which the main Manifold warehouse was located. Any urban map in the US will show similar, if not even more bizarre effects. Rural maps can have such a sparse network of roads with such strange zip code assignments that some rural areas cannot even be approximated with zip code regions. For the above reasons, any map that purports to show Zip Code Areas or Zip Code Polygons should not be taken as a precise map showing Zip code locations. It is at best some sort of approximation and most likely is wildly inaccurate in certain regions. The approximations can be useful, but they should not be confused with the real thing. The US Postal Service, of course, doesn't make it any easier to deal with such issues by making it easy to get Zip code information. Zip code information is not available for download via Internet from the US Postal Service. It is best obtained from (of all agencies!) the US Bureau of the Census. ZIP Code Tabulation Areas (ZCTAs) For statistical tabulation purposes the Census Bureau has long found it convenient to work with Zip code groupings of population. Zip codes have been so useful that the Bureau embarked on a project to create a standardized map of the US showing the approximate region of coverage of various Zip codes as areas. These areas are known as ZIP Code Tabulation Areas (ZCTAs). ZCTAs may be downloaded from the Census Bureau's www.census.gov site. Drill down to the Cartographic Boundaries pages to get ZCTAs. Download them using .e00 format so they will import into Manifold using the correct NAD83 datum. Before ZCTAs were published, every vendor of maps used in GIS had to resolve the various ambiguities posed by Zip code pathologies like those shown above. With ZCTAs the GIS industry can now use a standard approximation that is the same used as the Census Bureau for publishing demographic information. It is not clear if the Bureau will continue to create ZCTAs after the year 2000; however, they are so useful we believe they will become the industry standard for maps representing Zip codes as areas.
Re: [WISPA] Malicious damage
I believe it would be an offense to do so to a site with an FCC licensed public safety transmitter. If you are only using unlicensed gear and they use your unlicensed network I believe that is not the case. Now I'm not a lawyer, so to get a proper answer to this you should consult one :-) Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of NGL Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 11:21 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Malicious damage Is malicious damage to a tower a federal offense if I have government agencies using my service to send and receive email and data? Thanx NGL WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Malicious damage
What I am saying is that until there is an FCC licensed user on the site there is no federal jurisdiction. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: NGL [mailto:n...@ngl.net] Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 12:19 PM To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Malicious damage I am talking about physical damage i.e.: stolen components, broken solar panels etc. Not use of the system. Thanx NGL -- From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 9:10 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Malicious damage I believe it would be an offense to do so to a site with an FCC licensed public safety transmitter. If you are only using unlicensed gear and they use your unlicensed network I believe that is not the case. Now I'm not a lawyer, so to get a proper answer to this you should consult one :-) Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of NGL Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 11:21 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Malicious damage Is malicious damage to a tower a federal offense if I have government agencies using my service to send and receive email and data? Thanx NGL -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Stimulus money - best way to make long term use of it?
I've been putting some thought in to the idea of how best to use stimulus money or even obtain any of it for the average WISP. The buzz words that get the politicians happy and make them jump through hoops to give you money seem to be public/private partnerships, shovel ready projects, and fiber. If WISP's were to make contact with their local city and county government agencies, they might find some sort of fiber projects in the works. Typically these are to connect schools and government buildings together. If a WISP were to partner up with them and bring in the element of taking that fiber speed and bringing affordable bandwidth to the general public, the fiber projects gain a lot more traction in the eyes of the folks giving out the money. As a WISP, especially in the rural markets, long term access to affordable bandwidth will be key to survival. While your wireless over the air equipment and technology may change every few years, the desire for the bandwidth to the internet will not change, and an investment in fiber backhaul will be easy to justify for more than 24 months. Major backhaul to rural communities is a serious project to undertake and requires a lot of money. This I believe is one of the key focus elements to bringing broadband to the masses. Even if a public private partnership did nothing more than give you dark fiber that reaches back to markets where you can buy cheap bandwidth, it would be something you might not be able to achieve on your own. Having access to good reasonable priced bandwidth might also help justify small pockets of fiber to the home efforts in small communities where it might now make sense. Putting some of your densely located customers on fiber might also allow you to squeeze more out of your wireless system. I guess what I am trying to say is that WISP's should be looking at long term investment in infrastructure that will serve a changing industry for 10 to 20 years. You can bet that is what the Telco and cable operators are doing. This type of effort might also be just the thing to do together with other WISP's in an area. Thank You, Brian Webster WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Population density map
Mike, Send me an area of interest drawn in Google Earth and I will make you one based on census blocks. I can make it either by population or household density, your choice. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:53 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Population density map Is there a way to get a population density map that has more resolution than by county? Interested in Northern Illinois. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] radio mobile
Brian, Go to the Radio Mobile group on yahoo. There you can search the archives and or files sections. The archives will explain how to make your own antenna file if you can find a suitable one for your use. For example if you are trying to create a 60 degree antenna pattern you could use a similar one in the files section. The laws of physics dictate that the pattern won't be that much different from one manufacturer to the other. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 3:05 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile I'm trying to figure out coverage around access points. Eric Muehleisen wrote: FYI...If your using RadioMobile as a path calculator for PtP links, the antenna pattern is irrelevant. Using an omni antenna for both TX and RX will give you accurate numbers. -Eric Brian Rohrbacher wrote: So, I have been working on radio mobile for the past couple days. I need to make my antenna patterns. I use ubiquiti powerstations and need to find the info on the antenna. How do I look up that info on the fcc website? FCC Part 15.247, IC RS210 is the info I have from the data sheet. Will that work? Brian Mike Hammett wrote: Yeah, lot lower risk that way. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 12:26 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile Ha...pretty funny. I don't buy from an EBay seller unless they DO take PayPal. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 10:41 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile Ok, I finally figured out how to send payment to you. I HATE paypal I had to create an account in order to send this. I don't even buy things from ebay if they only take paypal, that's how much I appreciate your helping me Anyway, what's next? thanks, marlon 509.988.0260 - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:42 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile For Terrain data, set up RM to automatically grab the correct terrain data as needed. - Open RM - Options - Internet - Internet ftp directory - other - Enter the following ftp appending your region at the end ftp://e0srp01u.ecs.nasa.gov/srtm/version2/SRTM1/ To determine your region: ftp://e0srp01u.ecs.nasa.gov/srtm/version2/SRTM1/Region_definition.jpg Check ZIP So if you are region 2 your FTP address will look like: ftp://e0srp01u.ecs.nasa.gov/srtm/version2/SRTM1/Region_02/ Let me know when you have this set up. As far as payment, you can do PayPal without an account - just send it to jrichard...@aircloud.com. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile I understand that. Why do you think I'm even trying to learn it? Still, programmers shouldn't be so danged lazy! How hard can it be to put a good install program in place? Or a map (hey, what a thing for a mapping program to include!) that you can click on to download the data you are interested in marlon - Original Message - From: Mark McElvy mmce...@accubak.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile You may think it is a POS but try and buy something that can do what it can. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile Sold! I tried to download the terrain data, but I got the NED instead of the srtm. I don't know which data set to get. WHAT a POS system this is! Also, I don't have paypal. If you'll take a cc or check I'm in. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 11:54 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile I'll get you from zero to terrain analysis in about an hour. You'll need to get your SRTM data loaded first - do you know how to do that? We can use ZOHO Web Meeting. Price 100.00 paid via PayPal __ airCloud Communications Broadband for Business Public
Re: [WISPA] radio mobile
Yes the front to back ratio is probably the most difference you will see in antenna patterns from manufacturer to manufacturer. Since they can't cheat the laws of physics and the power they get in the forward direction of a certain beam width antenna, they can spend the money on construction and design features to minimize the emissions for the rest of the pattern and that includes the signal off the back. You can build radio mobile antenna patterns with a spreadsheet located in the yahoo groups file section. It's not to hard to do. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: George Rogato [mailto:wi...@oregonfast.net] Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 8:01 PM To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile My experience with antenna patterns has been that they are not accurate in all distances. It's either that or I don't understand them. To give you a couple examples. I have a 900MHz yagi, that has a miraculous connection @ 90* of the center 1 mile out. I was surprised that I even got a signal and to my amazement there it was. I've seen this close up with rootennas that I use to cover a small swath of an area for the extra power boost and to keep the noise level down outside of the intended coverage area. You get close and it's almost omni like. I have hot customers off the back side. I suppose that is the difference between a high quality antenna and cheap ones. And I bet when I get a few miles out the pattern is very accurate. Brian Webster wrote: Brian, Go to the Radio Mobile group on yahoo. There you can search the archives and or files sections. The archives will explain how to make your own antenna file if you can find a suitable one for your use. For example if you are trying to create a 60 degree antenna pattern you could use a similar one in the files section. The laws of physics dictate that the pattern won't be that much different from one manufacturer to the other. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 3:05 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile I'm trying to figure out coverage around access points. Eric Muehleisen wrote: FYI...If your using RadioMobile as a path calculator for PtP links, the antenna pattern is irrelevant. Using an omni antenna for both TX and RX will give you accurate numbers. -Eric Brian Rohrbacher wrote: So, I have been working on radio mobile for the past couple days. I need to make my antenna patterns. I use ubiquiti powerstations and need to find the info on the antenna. How do I look up that info on the fcc website? FCC Part 15.247, IC RS210 is the info I have from the data sheet. Will that work? Brian Mike Hammett wrote: Yeah, lot lower risk that way. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 12:26 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile Ha...pretty funny. I don't buy from an EBay seller unless they DO take PayPal. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 10:41 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile Ok, I finally figured out how to send payment to you. I HATE paypal I had to create an account in order to send this. I don't even buy things from ebay if they only take paypal, that's how much I appreciate your helping me Anyway, what's next? thanks, marlon 509.988.0260 - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:42 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile For Terrain data, set up RM to automatically grab the correct terrain data as needed. - Open RM - Options - Internet - Internet ftp directory - other - Enter the following ftp appending your region at the end ftp://e0srp01u.ecs.nasa.gov/srtm/version2/SRTM1/ To determine your region: ftp://e0srp01u.ecs.nasa.gov/srtm/version2/SRTM1/Region_definition.jpg Check ZIP So if you are region 2 your FTP address will look like: ftp://e0srp01u.ecs.nasa.gov/srtm/version2/SRTM1/Region_02/ Let me know when you have this set up. As far as payment, you can do PayPal without an account - just send it to jrichard...@aircloud.com. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio
Re: [WISPA] radio mobile
Marlon, Roger Coude the software author (a personal friend of mine) is not a programmer, he is an engineer who built this to solve his problems. He was gracious enough years ago to release this as freeware and has worked very hard at improving it. Commercial RF tools (of which I have a few) cost in the 10's to hundreds of thousands of dollars. I sent you links to two very good tutorials on how to use this program, step by step instructions in fact. You not wanting to read the directions does not make someone a lazy programmer or a bad program. RF Engineering is not something you can learn by paying someone $100 for some phone tech support. Radio Mobile is a great program but it is not easy and it will take a lot of time for you to learn how to work it to the full potential and to get proper results. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile I understand that. Why do you think I'm even trying to learn it? Still, programmers shouldn't be so danged lazy! How hard can it be to put a good install program in place? Or a map (hey, what a thing for a mapping program to include!) that you can click on to download the data you are interested in marlon - Original Message - From: Mark McElvy mmce...@accubak.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile You may think it is a POS but try and buy something that can do what it can. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile Sold! I tried to download the terrain data, but I got the NED instead of the srtm. I don't know which data set to get. WHAT a POS system this is! Also, I don't have paypal. If you'll take a cc or check I'm in. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 11:54 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile I'll get you from zero to terrain analysis in about an hour. You'll need to get your SRTM data loaded first - do you know how to do that? We can use ZOHO Web Meeting. Price 100.00 paid via PayPal __ airCloud Communications Broadband for Business Public and Private WiFi Jerry Richardson VP Operations 925-260-4119 _ ConsuWISP RF Topographical Coverage Maps Network Optimization and Planning Network Design and Troubleshooting Installer and Technician Training Please consider the environment before printing this email -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 6:54 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile I don't have time (or the desire) to wade through a bunch of documentation. I'll pay someone for their time. thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 11:10 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile Uhm...ya... Try this... http://www.pizon.org/radio-mobile-tutorial/index.html Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 1:43 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Hi All, I need to learn how to use this program. I can't even figure out how to get started with it (less than user friendly isn't it!) though. Anyone willing to spend some time on the phone and help me figure out the basics? Shoot me your number and a good time to call. thanks, marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http
Re: [WISPA] radio mobile
Oh, and by the way, Radio Mobile is not a mapping program, it just happens to use maps to display the engineering results it has the ability to calculate. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile I understand that. Why do you think I'm even trying to learn it? Still, programmers shouldn't be so danged lazy! How hard can it be to put a good install program in place? Or a map (hey, what a thing for a mapping program to include!) that you can click on to download the data you are interested in marlon - Original Message - From: Mark McElvy mmce...@accubak.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile You may think it is a POS but try and buy something that can do what it can. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile Sold! I tried to download the terrain data, but I got the NED instead of the srtm. I don't know which data set to get. WHAT a POS system this is! Also, I don't have paypal. If you'll take a cc or check I'm in. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 11:54 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile I'll get you from zero to terrain analysis in about an hour. You'll need to get your SRTM data loaded first - do you know how to do that? We can use ZOHO Web Meeting. Price 100.00 paid via PayPal __ airCloud Communications Broadband for Business Public and Private WiFi Jerry Richardson VP Operations 925-260-4119 _ ConsuWISP RF Topographical Coverage Maps Network Optimization and Planning Network Design and Troubleshooting Installer and Technician Training Please consider the environment before printing this email -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 6:54 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile I don't have time (or the desire) to wade through a bunch of documentation. I'll pay someone for their time. thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 11:10 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile Uhm...ya... Try this... http://www.pizon.org/radio-mobile-tutorial/index.html Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 1:43 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Hi All, I need to learn how to use this program. I can't even figure out how to get started with it (less than user friendly isn't it!) though. Anyone willing to spend some time on the phone and help me figure out the basics? Shoot me your number and a good time to call. thanks, marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe
Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
The 5.8 GHz backup links will help you deal with outages due to environmental conditions such as rain fade. That has to be factored in for links when you operate above 10 GHz. Even if you run a loop configuration you could have a fade condition that could block out a whole tower site severing your links to that location in both directions of your loop. Another path at a lower frequency with spatial diversity from your primary link (different mounting heights) would at least keep that site up though maybe not at full speed. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Thanks. Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network is build in a circle? marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop. Figure $15,000 per link for everything. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to 20 miles. Some links may be less, but I'm not counting on that. I'll be hauling public safety, private vpns, and normal internet traffic. I'll probably have around 20 towers, all linked in a ring. I can load share across the ring as long as speeds never drop below 100megs. I'll want things to be automatically self healing if there is a loss of connectivity in any direction. What would you guys use/suggest? I'd love to go licensed (but no 6 gig due to antenna sizes) but unlicensed may be OK due to the failover capabilities. We have to worry about snow, fog and, worst of all, dust storms. What gear would you use? How would you set this up? I'm in the pricing stage so off list quotes etc. are welcome. Pall park numbers are fine at this time, as long as they tend to run high vs. low, I'd rather over estimate the costs. thanks, marlon - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] LinkedIn
I have made a few good contacts that helped my consulting business. As a WISP I don't think it will help you add subscribers, but it could help you make good industry contacts that could be useful at some point. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Adam Greene Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 8:52 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] LinkedIn Just curiously, have those of you using these sites found that they've helped grow your business? - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 12:07 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] LinkedIn I'm on many sites... FaceBook, MySpace, LinkedIN, Plaxo, Twitter, maybe some others I have forgotten about. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: John Thomas jtho...@quarnet.com Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 11:07 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] LinkedIn Is anyone around here on LinkedIn? I just got signed up a few days ago, and it may have benefits for your businesses. It works a little bit like Facebook, but is much more business oriented. John - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] worlds smallest computer
This is an interesting solution for Asterisk http://tiaratechnology.org/, I'm going to build a couple of these nodes and see how they work out. I like the fact that you can use software to connect to remote sites and control the radios as well as link them together and/or still do phone patches. A open source dispatch software console/interoperability solution Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:36 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] worlds smallest computer I'm interested as well. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 1:24 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] worlds smallest computer Please let me know how you do that. We're interested for Sheriff's office repeaters. marlon - Original Message - From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com To: e...@wisp-router.com; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 6:43 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] worlds smallest computer Eje, Why don't you look into stocking those fit-PC slim's? I'm going to look into getting some for sending audio-over-ethernet for some 2-way radio purposes... Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of e...@wisp-router.com Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 9:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] worlds smallest computer The matchbox pc is almost twice as large if I do not read the specs wrong. 250ishx155x70some mm Compared to 110x100x30mm for the fit-pc. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 18:02:06 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] worlds smallest computer Pretty cool But I think he was trumped by the original! http://thydzik.com/matchboxPC/ grin marlon - Original Message - From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 5:54 PM Subject: [WISPA] worlds smallest computer Has anyone seen or used one of these? http://www.fit-pc.com/new/fit-pc-slim-specificatios.html I found it on a ham radio website, all I have to say is WOW. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List
Re: [WISPA] Radio Station
You might be able to give them a client radio that they can use to connect to your sites and do live remote broadcasts by linking back via Ethernet. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 12:18 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Radio Station I'm talking to a company that has a few radio stations. I know AM towers can be a PITA, so I'd like to avoid those. What sort of services could I provide to the station? I think I've heard on here a backup link between the studio and the tower. I've also heard of people monitoring tower lights over IP. Where do I look for products to do this kind of stuff? I suppose for the lights I could just monitor the amp usage on the circuit that powers the lights. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] first whitespaces 802.11 card?
There are 2 MHz of spectrum in the 220 MHz band able to be licensed for private land mobile use in the US using very narrow channels. I think they are targeting remote meter reading markets with this radio not broadband. The frequency range is also probably useable in other bands outside the US. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Randy Cosby Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 3:28 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] first whitespaces 802.11 card? http://www.ubnt.com/products/xr1.php -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc work: 435-773-6071 email: rco...@infowest.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/randycosby WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL products
or sunk ;-) Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 4:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL products We are sync'd in our thinking. :-) Scriv On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Cameron Kilton c...@midcoast.com wrote: Am I the only one who wishes they had GPS timing available for Alvarion VL. Thank You, Cameron Kilton Broadband Department Assistant Systems Administrator Midcoast Internet Solutions http://www.midcoast.com/ c...@midcoast.com (207)594-8277 ext. 108 -- -- This e-mail message may contain material that is confidential or proprietary to Midcoast Internet Solutions. If you are not the intended recipient(s) or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of this message to the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender, destroy all copies of this message, and delete this message from your computer. -- --- -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fentomcells and Broadband Backhaul
Not as long as people are willing to pay for the broadband that will backhaul the fem-to-cell traffic. The cellular operators are getting free network backhaul :-) Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 5:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Fentomcells and Broadband Backhaul Anyone has apporached the the Cellcos to create a joint package offering Broadband + Fentomcell service? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] broadband underserved data
I think it's going to vary by state Matt. I have yet to see any publicly available source on a nationwide basis, although the form 477 database would work nicely for that. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 4:10 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] broadband underserved data Where can I obtain broadband underserved data? -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Thinking out of the box ... Gigabit PTMP? Possible solution that could be done today.
So I have been thinking about this idea and here's what could be done. Disclaimer: This won't be sub $100 CPE and it won't scale economically for rural areas. This is metro market high customer density stuff. The 24 GHz band has 250 MHz of spectrum available as unlicensed (available today). It is designated for PTP. Navini and SkyPilot have successfully won arguments with the FCC to get their multipoint systems certified as PTP using logic that only one client talks to the base at one time. The JRC system is TDD and even more able to make the argument that only one base and CPE are talking on any frequency at one time. The JRC system can deliver up to 46 mb throughput per channel. Channels are 26 MHz wide, so you could easily build up a 6 sector or more system. Each JRC base station/sector can support 239 CPE's. The product is available today and would only have to be moved down from the 26 GHz they use it on in Japan (JRC has already stated they can do this). The challenge is getting the units FCC certified for use in the 24 GHz band as a PTP system. If a person or group hired the lab/lawyer who got Navini and SkyPilot approved they should have a good shot at getting this done. The FCC has already set precedent to do this. TDD is more easily argued that it is a PTP system on any given frequency at any given time. 24 GHz is a signal that is easily contained and manageable from a noise perspective. There are no consumer level devices operating in this band. This band is available today, no waiting for public policy and political whims to make spectrum available. This would be innovation. It could be done so fast that pundits or competitors could not use their political influence to thwart the effort. This could happen before they knew what hit them. Trees and buildings will be an issue as is distance with the propagation, but where else can you try to make something like this work today with already developed product and 250 MHz of spectrum? It's certainly an idea worth considering and could compete for high bandwidth customers in metro markets against cable and fiber. You decide, is the glass half empty or half full? http://www.jrc.co.jp/eng/product/26g_fwa/index.html Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 1:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Thinking out of the box ... Gigabit PTMP? Having that many GHz of spectrum would be nice. However, I would expect it to be limited to industrial parks or anywhere where foliage is not present. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Multipoint_Distribution_Service I would imagine that the cost to develop a new line of technology (or the original 802.16, which was meant for 10 GHz and up) would be quite expensive. Given the small range for that high priced gear, it's probably more cost effective to just bury fiber. Nextlink (XO) is the major LMDS holder in the US. I'm not sure who else has spectrum. I'd look at these sites as well... http://www.lmdswireless.com/index.php https://www.lmdsxchange.com/ - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 10:34 AM To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org Cc: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Thinking out of the box ... Gigabit PTMP? Today i have been pondering the idea to provide a wireless alternative to FTTH... At least a short range (up to 1 mile) 100 - 500 mbps wireless PTMP system to the home to provide triple play services. With todays current products, I ll say it cant be done... but is there an alterenative? Couple of ideas came in to my mind ... Rebirth of LMDS? AFAIK LMDS has not had great success on the states, spectrum was bidded, some gear was tested... no big networks were built ...but all this was almost 10 years ago, with today technology could a cost effective platform be developed to provide GIgabit PTMP on LMDS? MIMO Radio + 256qam + big spectrum means big bandwidth PTMP 24 ghz? Could a PTMP UL 24 ghz be developed? upconvert and bond multiple 802.11n based links with a polling mac? Anyone would like to add something? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Thinking out of the box ... GigabitPTMP? Possible solution that could be done today.
Gino, No I do not have any pricing information. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: Gino Villarini [mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com] Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 2:16 PM To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; memb...@wispa.org; WISPA General List; Motorola Canopy List Subject: RE: [WISPA Members] [WISPA] Thinking out of the box ... GigabitPTMP? Possible solution that could be done today. Brian, do you have any pricing info on this product? I know it wont be $100 cpe but $3000 cpe wont cut it either Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: members-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:members-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 3:08 PM To: WISPA General List; Motorola Canopy List; memb...@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA Members] [WISPA] Thinking out of the box ... GigabitPTMP? Possible solution that could be done today. So I have been thinking about this idea and here's what could be done. Disclaimer: This won't be sub $100 CPE and it won't scale economically for rural areas. This is metro market high customer density stuff. The 24 GHz band has 250 MHz of spectrum available as unlicensed (available today). It is designated for PTP. Navini and SkyPilot have successfully won arguments with the FCC to get their multipoint systems certified as PTP using logic that only one client talks to the base at one time. The JRC system is TDD and even more able to make the argument that only one base and CPE are talking on any frequency at one time. The JRC system can deliver up to 46 mb throughput per channel. Channels are 26 MHz wide, so you could easily build up a 6 sector or more system. Each JRC base station/sector can support 239 CPE's. The product is available today and would only have to be moved down from the 26 GHz they use it on in Japan (JRC has already stated they can do this). The challenge is getting the units FCC certified for use in the 24 GHz band as a PTP system. If a person or group hired the lab/lawyer who got Navini and SkyPilot approved they should have a good shot at getting this done. The FCC has already set precedent to do this. TDD is more easily argued that it is a PTP system on any given frequency at any given time. 24 GHz is a signal that is easily contained and manageable from a noise perspective. There are no consumer level devices operating in this band. This band is available today, no waiting for public policy and political whims to make spectrum available. This would be innovation. It could be done so fast that pundits or competitors could not use their political influence to thwart the effort. This could happen before they knew what hit them. Trees and buildings will be an issue as is distance with the propagation, but where else can you try to make something like this work today with already developed product and 250 MHz of spectrum? It's certainly an idea worth considering and could compete for high bandwidth customers in metro markets against cable and fiber. You decide, is the glass half empty or half full? http://www.jrc.co.jp/eng/product/26g_fwa/index.html Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 1:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Thinking out of the box ... Gigabit PTMP? Having that many GHz of spectrum would be nice. However, I would expect it to be limited to industrial parks or anywhere where foliage is not present. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Multipoint_Distribution_Service I would imagine that the cost to develop a new line of technology (or the original 802.16, which was meant for 10 GHz and up) would be quite expensive. Given the small range for that high priced gear, it's probably more cost effective to just bury fiber. Nextlink (XO) is the major LMDS holder in the US. I'm not sure who else has spectrum. I'd look at these sites as well... http://www.lmdswireless.com/index.php https://www.lmdsxchange.com/ - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 10:34 AM To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org Cc: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Thinking out of the box ... Gigabit PTMP? Today i have been pondering the idea to provide a wireless alternative to FTTH... At least a short range (up to 1 mile) 100 - 500 mbps wireless PTMP system to the home to provide triple play services. With todays current products, I ll say it cant be done... but is there an alterenative? Couple of ideas came in to my mind ... Rebirth of LMDS? AFAIK LMDS has not had great success on the states, spectrum
Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] [WISPA Members] Thinking out of the box... Gigabit PTMP? Possible solution that could be done today.
Well if this is certified as a PTP system then it would be allowed to run under those power levels. I have seen manufacturer claims for 24 GHz PTP systems of 2-3 miles and up to 5 miles at lower throughput. The rain fade for any given market is going to have a lot more to do with that however. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: motorola-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:motorola-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Nathan Stooke Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 2:32 PM To: memb...@wispa.org; 'WISPA General List'; 'Motorola Canopy List' Subject: Re: [Motorola II] [WISPA Members] [WISPA] Thinking out of the box... Gigabit PTMP? Possible solution that could be done today. Hello, I am all for it. You have to pick the right equipment/spectrum for the right tower/area. I have at least 10 maybe more towers that have about 1000+ potential customers within about 1.5 miles of the tower. It would allow me to use the current 2.4, 5.2-5.8 on other towers for the clients I could not get or at least have less AP in those bands on these towers. At best guess what would be the range of the spectrum? Thanks -Original Message- From: members-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:members-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List; Motorola Canopy List; memb...@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA Members] [WISPA] Thinking out of the box ... Gigabit PTMP? Possible solution that could be done today. So I have been thinking about this idea and here's what could be done. Disclaimer: This won't be sub $100 CPE and it won't scale economically for rural areas. This is metro market high customer density stuff. The 24 GHz band has 250 MHz of spectrum available as unlicensed (available today). It is designated for PTP. Navini and SkyPilot have successfully won arguments with the FCC to get their multipoint systems certified as PTP using logic that only one client talks to the base at one time. The JRC system is TDD and even more able to make the argument that only one base and CPE are talking on any frequency at one time. The JRC system can deliver up to 46 mb throughput per channel. Channels are 26 MHz wide, so you could easily build up a 6 sector or more system. Each JRC base station/sector can support 239 CPE's. The product is available today and would only have to be moved down from the 26 GHz they use it on in Japan (JRC has already stated they can do this). The challenge is getting the units FCC certified for use in the 24 GHz band as a PTP system. If a person or group hired the lab/lawyer who got Navini and SkyPilot approved they should have a good shot at getting this done. The FCC has already set precedent to do this. TDD is more easily argued that it is a PTP system on any given frequency at any given time. 24 GHz is a signal that is easily contained and manageable from a noise perspective. There are no consumer level devices operating in this band. This band is available today, no waiting for public policy and political whims to make spectrum available. This would be innovation. It could be done so fast that pundits or competitors could not use their political influence to thwart the effort. This could happen before they knew what hit them. Trees and buildings will be an issue as is distance with the propagation, but where else can you try to make something like this work today with already developed product and 250 MHz of spectrum? It's certainly an idea worth considering and could compete for high bandwidth customers in metro markets against cable and fiber. You decide, is the glass half empty or half full? http://www.jrc.co.jp/eng/product/26g_fwa/index.html Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 1:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Thinking out of the box ... Gigabit PTMP? Having that many GHz of spectrum would be nice. However, I would expect it to be limited to industrial parks or anywhere where foliage is not present. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Multipoint_Distribution_Service I would imagine that the cost to develop a new line of technology (or the original 802.16, which was meant for 10 GHz and up) would be quite expensive. Given the small range for that high priced gear, it's probably more cost effective to just bury fiber. Nextlink (XO) is the major LMDS holder in the US. I'm not sure who else has spectrum. I'd look at these sites as well... http://www.lmdswireless.com/index.php https://www.lmdsxchange.com/ - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 10:34 AM To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org Cc: WISPA General
Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Thinking out of the box ... Gigabit PTMP?
Fibertower owns a lot of the LMDS spectrum that they acquired when they bought First Avenue Networks. First Avenue acquired the spectrum which was the old WinStar and Teligent stuff. From what I understand there are still a few people who have warehouses of that old equipment. Fibertower was in the business of leasing that spectrum but they stopped. I tried to negotiate a deal when I was at EarthLink to do a nationwide lease with them. They have both 24 and 39 GHz spectrum with the 39 being almost nationwide http://www.fibertower.com/corp/solutions-spectrum.shtml. The problem with this spectrum is available equipment. For the EarthLink deal the plan was to use the 24 GHz spectrum. Japan Radio Corp (JRC) has a PTMP solution with CPE's in a form factor very similar in size to Canopy. We would have gone through the FCC cert process for those if the rest of the deal had gone through. While we were talking Fibertower did a 180 and said they weren't going to look at leasing anymore. My thought was they got greedy and figured if EarthLink was going to be able to do it, they should do it themselves. Didn't pan out for them though. There are still many private LMDS licenses that could probably be bought or leased cheaply. With no equipment available that spectrum has lost it's value. I'm sure JRC would spin up some product if the market showed some interest. Maybe with the new map other manufactures could be encouraged to do so as well. I don't recall any of the product details or the throughput but those are the places I would start on this quest. I think this is a great idea and one which should be pursued. It would be great to show the government that WISP's will make the most of of whatever is at hand and make it a profitable growing business, nit just speculate on spectrum to resell or to build up a marginal business and position it to sell (Nextel anyone...). I'm really getting tired of the Flip this House mentality in the licensed wireless world. Artificially inflated financials with very few who have actually proven their own business plan before they sell it to the next sucker (Sprint anyone...)... I could rant for a long time on the issue but I'll spare everyone. As difficult as it is to deal in unlicensed spectrum, it has some serious advantages. As long as you play within the rules there aren't big players and government always trying to create winners and losers. With unlicensed you can quietly go about building an industry and go undetected (like the WISP industry if you look at congress today). Maybe it's time to get creative and do something with free space optics and 60 GHz to build up some sort of PTMP solution? Today you know there are certain spectrum bands you have access to right now. You don't need to wait for the winds of political change to gain access. While working towards WISP protected spectrum is a good thing, it's just as smart to focus efforts on the bird in hand. Look at White Spaces. They have pushed that off till June. It will be nice when it's available but don't hold your breath or your innovation waiting for it. Create innovation now with what we have. This stuff won't be sub $100 CPE's. There is not enough manufacturing scale to do so but the costs required to do this with subsidized efforts by the government might make it cheaper than one thinks. This probably won't work for the extreme rural areas where the household density make it hard to justify much of any technology and still make a profit, but looking at the WISP map I see we have many operators who easily live in densely populated areas to justify projects such as this. I saw it's time for innovation. NEVER say NEVER when it comes to technology. Almost always you will be proven wrong in time, I know I have been on a number of things. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: motorola-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:motorola-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 11:34 AM To: Motorola Canopy User Group Cc: WISPA General List Subject: [Motorola II] Thinking out of the box ... Gigabit PTMP? Today i have been pondering the idea to provide a wireless alternative to FTTH... At least a short range (up to 1 mile) 100 - 500 mbps wireless PTMP system to the home to provide triple play services. With todays current products, I ll say it cant be done... but is there an alterenative? Couple of ideas came in to my mind ... Rebirth of LMDS? AFAIK LMDS has not had great success on the states, spectrum was bidded, some gear was tested... no big networks were built ...but all this was almost 10 years ago, with today technology could a cost effective platform be developed to provide GIgabit PTMP on LMDS? MIMO Radio + 256qam + big spectrum means big bandwidth PTMP 24 ghz? Could a PTMP UL 24 ghz be developed? upconvert and bond multiple 802.11n based links with a polling mac? Anyone would like to add something? Gino A. Villarini
Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Thinking out of the box ... Gigabit PTMP?
Looks like there is 25 MHz of unlicensed spectrum at 24 GHz for PTP use. I wonder if these radios could get FCC certified using PTP rules like Navini and SkyPilot did? That would make for an interesting change in the landscape for urban markets. Granted you would only have one channel but at 24 GHz frequency reuse would be easily done. Terrain and buildings could do wonders for containing the signal. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 2:38 PM To: Motorola Canopy User Group; WISPA List Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Thinking out of the box ... Gigabit PTMP? already dug up some info: http://www.jrc.co.jp/eng/product/26g_fwa/index.html 16qam 80 mbps in a 30 mhz Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 From: motorola-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:motorola-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 3:23 PM To: Motorola Canopy User Group; WISPA List Subject: Re: [Motorola II] Thinking out of the box ... Gigabit PTMP? Fibertower owns a lot of the LMDS spectrum that they acquired when they bought First Avenue Networks. First Avenue acquired the spectrum which was the old WinStar and Teligent stuff. From what I understand there are still a few people who have warehouses of that old equipment. Fibertower was in the business of leasing that spectrum but they stopped. I tried to negotiate a deal when I was at EarthLink to do a nationwide lease with them. They have both 24 and 39 GHz spectrum with the 39 being almost nationwide http://www.fibertower.com/corp/solutions-spectrum.shtml. The problem with this spectrum is available equipment. For the EarthLink deal the plan was to use the 24 GHz spectrum. Japan Radio Corp (JRC) has a PTMP solution with CPE's in a form factor very similar in size to Canopy. We would have gone through the FCC cert process for those if the rest of the deal had gone through. While we were talking Fibertower did a 180 and said they weren't going to look at leasing anymore. My thought was they got greedy and figured if EarthLink was going to be able to do it, they should do it themselves. Didn't pan out for them though. There are still many private LMDS licenses that could probably be bought or leased cheaply. With no equipment available that spectrum has lost it's value. I'm sure JRC would spin up some product if the market showed some interest. Maybe with the new map other manufactures could be encouraged to do so as well. I don't recall any of the product details or the throughput but those are the places I would start on this quest. I think this is a great idea and one which should be pursued. It would be great to show the government that WISP's will make the most of of whatever is at hand and make it a profitable growing business, nit just speculate on spectrum to resell or to build up a marginal business and position it to sell (Nextel anyone...). I'm really getting tired of the Flip this House mentality in the licensed wireless world. Artificially inflated financials with very few who have actually proven their own business plan before they sell it to the next sucker (Sprint anyone...)... I could rant for a long time on the issue but I'll spare everyone. As difficult as it is to deal in unlicensed spectrum, it has some serious advantages. As long as you play within the rules there aren't big players and government always trying to create winners and losers. With unlicensed you can quietly go about building an industry and go undetected (like the WISP industry if you look at congress today). Maybe it's time to get creative and do something with free space optics and 60 GHz to build up some sort of PTMP solution? Today you know there are certain spectrum bands you have access to right now. You don't need to wait for the winds of political change to gain access. While working towards WISP protected spectrum is a good thing, it's just as smart to focus efforts on the bird in hand. Look at White Spaces. They have pushed that off till June. It will be nice when it's available but don't hold your breath or your innovation waiting for it. Create innovation now with what we have. This stuff won't be sub $100 CPE's. There is not enough manufacturing scale to do so but the costs required to do this with subsidized efforts by the government might make it cheaper than one thinks. This probably won't work for the extreme rural areas where the household density make it hard to justify much of any technology and still make a profit, but looking at the WISP map I see we have many operators who easily live in densely populated areas to justify projects such as this. I saw it's time for innovation. NEVER say NEVER when it comes to technology. Almost always you will be proven wrong in time, I know I
Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Thinking out of the box ... Gigabit PTMP?
Sorry missed the zero, 250 MHz. So you would have a lot of channels. Get those JRC radios certified under the current PTP rules (these are TDMA radios, should be an easy argument) and we have a lot of spectrum and equipment ready ALMOST TODAY to deploy high capacity PTMP systems no waiting for new spectrum allocations, very interesting. Anyone know who those companies used to make their case at the FCC for certification? Might be worth hiring them to get the JRC Radios through the process. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 3:25 PM To: Motorola Canopy User Group Cc: WISPA General List; Motorola Canopy User Group Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Thinking out of the box ... Gigabit PTMP? 25 or 250 MHz? Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Feb 8, 2009, at 4:22 PM, Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com wrote: Looks like there is 25 MHz of unlicensed spectrum at 24 GHz for PTP use. I wonder if these radios could get FCC certified using PTP rules like Navini and SkyPilot did? That would make for an interesting change in the landscape for urban markets. Granted you would only have one channel but at 24 GHz frequency reuse would be easily done. Terrain and buildings could do wonders for containing the signal. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 2:38 PM To: Motorola Canopy User Group; WISPA List Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Thinking out of the box ... Gigabit PTMP? already dug up some info: http://www.jrc.co.jp/eng/product/26g_fwa/index.html 16qam 80 mbps in a 30 mhz Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 From: motorola-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:motorola-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 3:23 PM To: Motorola Canopy User Group; WISPA List Subject: Re: [Motorola II] Thinking out of the box ... Gigabit PTMP? Fibertower owns a lot of the LMDS spectrum that they acquired when they bought First Avenue Networks. First Avenue acquired the spectrum which was the old WinStar and Teligent stuff. From what I understand there are still a few people who have warehouses of that old equipment. Fibertower was in the business of leasing that spectrum but they stopped. I tried to negotiate a deal when I was at EarthLink to do a nationwide lease with them. They have both 24 and 39 GHz spectrum with the 39 being almost nationwide http://www.fibertower.com/corp/solutions-spectrum.shtml. The problem with this spectrum is available equipment. For the EarthLink deal the plan was to use the 24 GHz spectrum. Japan Radio Corp (JRC) has a PTMP solution with CPE's in a form factor very similar in size to Canopy. We would have gone through the FCC cert process for those if the rest of the deal had gone through. While we were talking Fibertower did a 180 and said they weren't going to look at leasing anymore. My thought was they got greedy and figured if EarthLink was going to be able to do it, they should do it themselves. Didn't pan out for them though. There are still many private LMDS licenses that could probably be bought or leased cheaply. With no equipment available that spectrum has lost it's value. I'm sure JRC would spin up some product if the market showed some interest. Maybe with the new map other manufactures could be encouraged to do so as well. I don't recall any of the product details or the throughput but those are the places I would start on this quest. I think this is a great idea and one which should be pursued. It would be great to show the government that WISP's will make the most of of whatever is at hand and make it a profitable growing business, nit just speculate on spectrum to resell or to build up a marginal business and position it to sell (Nextel anyone...). I'm really getting tired of the Flip this House mentality in the licensed wireless world. Artificially inflated financials with very few who have actually proven their own business plan before they sell it to the next sucker (Sprint anyone...)... I could rant for a long time on the issue but I'll spare everyone. As difficult as it is to deal in unlicensed spectrum, it has some serious advantages. As long as you play within the rules there aren't big players and government always trying to create winners and losers. With unlicensed you can quietly go about building an industry and go undetected (like the WISP industry if you look at congress today). Maybe it's time to get creative and do something with free space optics and 60 GHz to build up some sort of PTMP solution? Today you know
Re: [WISPA] Senate to cut Rural Broadband from Stimulus Bill!
I think there is still 7 Billion still in there isn't it? Thought I read somewhere it when from 9 down to 7 but I could be wrong or the reporters could be mistaken. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of St. Louis Broadband Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 8:56 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Senate to cut Rural Broadband from Stimulus Bill! The Senate agreement pared from the bill $20 billion for school construction, $2 billion to expand broadband access in rural areas, $3.5 billion to make federal buildings more energy efficient and $200 million for NASA. It also reduced a proposed subsidy that would allow the jobless to buy health insurance through their former employers. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103sid=adnIDRZKZQJwrefer=us This is NOT good. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Another source of WISP data for the map?...
Guess it helps if I remember to post the link.. The updates to the map have slowed considerably. I was checking the Google rankings for the National WISP Map and found Steve Stroh's page listing WISP's he was aware of. He claims it's not actively maintained but if someone wanted to start checking these WISP's and either contacting them to get themselves listed in the WISP Directory or to trace any coverage maps in Google Earth that would be awesome. If you take on some of this work post to the list and let people know what parts you are doing. http://www.bwiaserviceproviders.com/ Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Nice article about the map - Thought you had no alternatives for broadband?
http://bennett.com/blog/2009/02/thought-you-had-no-alternatives-for-broadban d/ Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] National WISP Map Graphic - Over half amillionsquaremiles covered!
No, but I did offer one of the FCC lawyers my services to show all the Form 477 data on a map like this for their own internal use and to show congress where the broadband is for every technology. haven't heard back on that one yet. I guess an all volunteer project like this embarrasses those who have been granted millions of dollars to do the same thing :-) Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 8:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] National WISP Map Graphic - Over half amillionsquaremiles covered! anyone have stats on what the cableco and telco cover with high speed access? Brian Jason wrote: For what it's worth (and maybe someone's already said this, but), the US is 3,794,066 sq miles in size (wikipedia) which means the current coverage is 19.767%! That's significant. Jason Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Yes. I can see it now. Hi mr congressman, we're WISPA, we represent coverage for xxx,xxx,xxx of your voters..Maybe they would listen Brian Brian Webster wrote: That is coming. See my message about help needed downloading data. The daily updates are coming in so fast that it's almost full time work just keeping up with that. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of chris cooper Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 2:35 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] National WISP Map Graphic - Over half amillionsquaremiles covered! And/or how many doorsteps actually have coverage. Chris And I REALLY want to know how many homes are passed by those circles! Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! o...@odessaoffice.com www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Coverage area of the competition
I could generate the actual deployed cable footprint around the US and can come pretty close to the DSL footprint as well. The data is not readily available and it is labor intensive to create. To purchase the information on the Telco side is probably about $1,500 to $3,000 per state and as far as I am aware the only cable data available is the franchise area boundaries not the deployed footprint. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 (607) 643-4055 Office (607) 435-3988 Mobile (208) 692-1898 Fax www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 1:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Coverage area of the competition I was thinking NANPA or someone like that would have the telco maps. I'm not necessarily talking about what's in DSL reach, but what's the information for their CO. I have attached the kind of map that can be generated from this kind of data. I'm sure Brian could work his GIS magic if we were able to locate the raw data. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jp j...@saucer.midcoast.com Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 11:41 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Coverage area of the competition The Cable companies do CAD/GIS drawings prior to rebuilds and construction so the subcontractors know what goes where and to obtain pole access and make ready work. I'm sure these drawings are not publicly accessible, and they'd probably not want to share them. Some phone companies have similar maps for their facilities, but I wouldn't expect all of them too, especially with older out of date facilities. They generally like facilities information kept confidential as proprietary information when working with state government here. With cable, it's extra tough to estimate coverage without detailed street level coverage maps. A big market of ours is (besides satellite TV choosers), places where cable doesn't go. If someone lives on a long road, driveway or sparesely populated street, cable is not cost effective to deliver there, and the construction charges can easily cost a property owner 5 digit figures. Of course, wireless has coverage gaps as well, but technical software like radio mobile can estimate that to some extent. On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 10:02:41AM -0600, Mike Hammett wrote: How can we get what the coverage area is of the telcos, cablecos, and cell phones? I'm not necessarily referring to homes passed, but on a CO, headend, or tower level. I know I've seen references to GIS data for COs. Cell phone towers should be publically accessible somewhere in ULS. With the latest update from Brian, WISPs cover 743,456 square miles. The entire US is 3,794,066. That's 20%. If you exclude Alaska and Hawaii which are not covered in Brian's map and make up 674,198 square miles, that's 3,119,868. That puts us at 24% of the continental US. I think it would go a long way to say that WISPs provide more broadband coverage than x company provides services period, including areas they cannot provide broadband. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] National Map Update - 743,456 square miles!!!!!
Yes please send that data as well. I have had quite a few others draw out their state coverage by looking at other WISP's web sites and creating those coverage polygons in Google Earth. If you could name each polygon with the proper WISP name that helps me keep things organized. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of David Hulsebus Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 3:10 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] National Map Update - 743,456 square miles! I know of a few WISP's in my area that will probably not send in any data. I know their coverage areas because I've mapped it. Should we also send that data. Dave Brian Webster wrote: Today I received an update from Matt and the WISP directory and I continue to receive updates from many WISP's as well. Total land area now covers almost 750,000 square miles. That 3/4 of a million I've heard from a few major vendors that they will try to get the word out about the project. This latest map image has a less obnoxious logo I found for myself. This stuff rocks! In a week we added more than 300,000 square miles of coverage area. Let's keep getting the word out and updates coming in. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Coverage area of the competition
Correct but then it still has to be converted from a paper map to a GIS readable format and someone has to go around to all the communities and gather that information :-) We're having a hard enough time getting the WISP footprints. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 4:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Coverage area of the competition On Feb 5, 2009, at 12:41 PM, jp wrote: The Cable companies do CAD/GIS drawings prior to rebuilds and construction so the subcontractors know what goes where and to obtain pole access and make ready work. I'm sure these drawings are not publicly accessible, and they'd probably not want to share them. Some phone companies have similar maps for their facilities, but I wouldn't expect all of them too, especially with older out of date facilities. They generally like facilities information kept confidential as proprietary information when working with state government here. With cable, it's extra tough to estimate coverage without detailed street level coverage maps. Every town I've got a presence in where cable is also present has a cable map as part of the franchise agreement. This is FOILable information, though I've never had to do more than ask for it. Chuck A big market of ours is (besides satellite TV choosers), places where cable doesn't go. If someone lives on a long road, driveway or sparesely populated street, cable is not cost effective to deliver there, and the construction charges can easily cost a property owner 5 digit figures. Of course, wireless has coverage gaps as well, but technical software like radio mobile can estimate that to some extent. On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 10:02:41AM -0600, Mike Hammett wrote: How can we get what the coverage area is of the telcos, cablecos, and cell phones? I'm not necessarily referring to homes passed, but on a CO, headend, or tower level. I know I've seen references to GIS data for COs. Cell phone towers should be publically accessible somewhere in ULS. With the latest update from Brian, WISPs cover 743,456 square miles. The entire US is 3,794,066. That's 20%. If you exclude Alaska and Hawaii which are not covered in Brian's map and make up 674,198 square miles, that's 3,119,868. That puts us at 24% of the continental US. I think it would go a long way to say that WISPs provide more broadband coverage than x company provides services period, including areas they cannot provide broadband. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 If all is not lost, where is it? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] National Map update for today - 837, 341 Square miles covered
I'll see what I can do, I tried when I added the update text and ran in to problems. Tomorrows version should have it. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: Joe Miller [mailto:joemiller...@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 7:23 PM To: WISPA List; Motorola Canopy List; memb...@wispa.org; bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com Subject: Re: [WISPA] National Map update for today - 837, 341 Square miles covered Brian, Is there a way to put the covered square miles on the map? --- On Thu, 2/5/09, Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com wrote: From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com Subject: [WISPA] National Map update for today - 837, 341 Square miles covered To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org, Motorola Canopy List motor...@wispa.org, memb...@wispa.org Date: Thursday, February 5, 2009, 5:18 PM Time for the daily map project update. I'm still getting WISP's sending their network data. Some have even taken on the task of drawing coverage polygons for the other WISP's in their state. They have logged on to their web sites and either mapped the communities listed or traced out a coverage map posted on the page. Project description: http://www.wirelessmapping.com/National%20Map.htm Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] National Map - NEED HELP
The map is progressing and the data is coming in faster than ever. I'm keeping up but having an issue with trying to compute the demographics. I need to download a bunch of Census GIS data and I either get timed out or run out of hours in the day to complete the task. Can I get a volunteer to download everything in the following directories and burn them to disk and send them to me? ftp://ftp2.census.gov/geo/tiger/tiger2k/ ftp://ftp2.census.gov/census_2000/datasets/Summary_File_1/ ftp://ftp2.census.gov/census_2000/datasets/Summary_File_3/ Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 www.wirelessmapping.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] National WISP Map Graphic - Over half amillionsquaremiles covered!
That is coming. See my message about help needed downloading data. The daily updates are coming in so fast that it's almost full time work just keeping up with that. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of chris cooper Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 2:35 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] National WISP Map Graphic - Over half amillionsquaremiles covered! And/or how many doorsteps actually have coverage. Chris And I REALLY want to know how many homes are passed by those circles! Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! o...@odessaoffice.com www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] National Map - NEED HELP
Everything in these directories are GIS related data mapping files. I need all of them to build up the map layers so that I can calculate the population and households based by the WISP map. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: Scottie Arnett [mailto:sarn...@info-ed.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 3:31 PM To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] National Map - NEED HELP Would it be easier if we send that information to you? What information are you wanting out it? as of what year? or...if you have a program that automagically does that for you, I guess it would be much easier than entering it by hand. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com Reply-To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 14:21:04 -0500 The map is progressing and the data is coming in faster than ever. I'm keeping up but having an issue with trying to compute the demographics. I need to download a bunch of Census GIS data and I either get timed out or run out of hours in the day to complete the task. Can I get a volunteer to download everything in the following directories and burn them to disk and send them to me? ftp://ftp2.census.gov/geo/tiger/tiger2k/ ftp://ftp2.census.gov/census_2000/datasets/Summary_File_1/ ftp://ftp2.census.gov/census_2000/datasets/Summary_File_3/ Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 www.wirelessmapping.com --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] National Map - NEED HELP
This map will eventually have the tabulations done by census tract (the format the new form 477 uses) which does not resolve down to zip codes. They are polygons create by the census and have specific data related to them. Unfortunately the polygons don't have the data with them, you have to download that separately, extract the relevant information and then do table linking. A lot of work. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 (607) 643-4055 Office (607) 435-3988 Mobile (208) 692-1898 Fax www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Scottie Arnett Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 3:44 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] National Map - NEED HELP Ah Ok. I looked up ours using www.zipskinny.com . Not sure what census they are pulled from, maybe 2000. On one of our zipcodes I get General Information: Latitude: 36.543183 Longitude: -85.811146 Population: 4792 Density:41.64 (people per square land mile) Housing Units: 2133 Land Area: 115.09 sq. mi. Water Area: 0.09 sq. mi Not sure if its any help, but it is interesting for your own use i guess. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com Reply-To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 15:27:37 -0500 Everything in these directories are GIS related data mapping files. I need all of them to build up the map layers so that I can calculate the population and households based by the WISP map. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: Scottie Arnett [mailto:sarn...@info-ed.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 3:31 PM To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] National Map - NEED HELP Would it be easier if we send that information to you? What information are you wanting out it? as of what year? or...if you have a program that automagically does that for you, I guess it would be much easier than entering it by hand. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com Reply-To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 14:21:04 -0500 The map is progressing and the data is coming in faster than ever. I'm keeping up but having an issue with trying to compute the demographics. I need to download a bunch of Census GIS data and I either get timed out or run out of hours in the day to complete the task. Can I get a volunteer to download everything in the following directories and burn them to disk and send them to me? ftp://ftp2.census.gov/geo/tiger/tiger2k/ ftp://ftp2.census.gov/census_2000/datasets/Summary_File_1/ ftp://ftp2.census.gov/census_2000/datasets/Summary_File_3/ Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 www.wirelessmapping.com -- - - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- - - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] National WISP Map Graphic - Over halfa millionsquaremiles covered!
Rick, I did post to DSL reports yesterday with an update today. I haven't ever been on the isp-wireless list. If someone wants to post there I'd be happy to write something up. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 (607) 643-4055 Office (607) 435-3988 Mobile (208) 692-1898 Fax www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Rick Harnish Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 12:20 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] National WISP Map Graphic - Over halfa millionsquaremiles covered! Mike, I don't post to DSL Reports, do those users even know about this effort? Or isp-wireless for that matter? Thanks, Rick -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 11:48 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] National WISP Map Graphic - Over half a millionsquaremiles covered! I'd imagine that the rural ones are more likely to fear posting their coverage areas. Silly WISPs. ;-) The guys on DSL Reports seem less likely to provide information as well. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 10:35 AM To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] National WISP Map Graphic - Over half a millionsquaremiles covered! So much for wisps only being in rural areas! Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! o...@odessaoffice.com www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org; memb...@wispa.org; motor...@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 10:24 AM Subject: [WISPA] National WISP Map Graphic - Over half a million squaremiles covered! Here is a fixed graphic of the National WISP map showing the lower 48 states. I have been getting updates via email on top of what Matt sends from the directory. The footprint now covers 567,315 square miles! I'm still working out the bug that makes the circle radius on the Google Maps smaller than the 10 mile radius. The land area calculations are done based on the 10 miles. Help spread the word about this effort to collect data. For those who have drawn their coverage area in Google Earth, send me that file and I can add it directly to the map. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] National Map progress
This morning I started a web page to describe the National Mapping Initiative project. I have been getting more and more participation from individual WISP's providing me with data about their networks. This is great! The momentum has started. Please pass the word along to every WISP you can think of. If they want to know more they can check out the web page here: http://www.wirelessmapping.com/National%20Map.htm I want to thank all of you for your efforts to date. This will make a difference in how the WISP industry is perceived as well as help establish brand awareness with the consumer for this type of broadband delivery. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Free Coverage maps? --- An idea
What if WISPA were to secure a grant for say $300,000 as part of the stimulus package? For that money I would do proper RF mapping as a one shot deal for every WISP who wanted to in the next year. I would also build a proper map server with a database that indicates which areas are covered by which WISP's and web enable the application. All the RF studies would go in to the National WISP Map (replacing the circles being used now). The map data would be shared with the USDA and any other entity charged with giving out loans or money to deploy rural broadband in areas that are supposedly not served. WISPA would look good as a unifying organization for the industry. WISP's would benefit in that they would not have taxpayer funded projects come in as competitors. They would also have a free source of leads because this tool would be used by the consumer to look for service. The consumer would benefit because they would have one place to look for service for ALL WISP's. The industry would win because we can do proper demographic studies and compete against Telco's and Cable Companies in legislative actions. This would not mean perpetual free mapping for WISP's, just a one time full network map. For those WISP's who do not want their network data to be known, you will be in a much worse position when competition comes in to your market with free money to build from the taxpayer. Right now the cellular/PCS industry is grabbing all the money they can claiming they can serve the rural markets with high speed internet. While they are free to build out, they should not be getting money under the premise that an area has no broadband if indeed they do. The only way to stop this is to SHOW the people in the government areas have broadband! Thoughts? Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] [WISPA Members] Wireless Mapping Website
Probably not as often as it should be. Matt sent me an updated zip code list a couple of days ago and I'm in the process of updating the map. I will make it a point to put the version date on the web page. I usually post a message to the lists when a new version is posted. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 2:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] [WISPA Members] Wireless Mapping Website How often is that map updated? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Rick Harnish rharn...@onlyinternet.net Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 1:01 PM To: 'Motorola Canopy User Group' motor...@wispa.org; memb...@wispa.org; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] [WISPA Members] Wireless Mapping Website Sorry Guys, I forgot to post the website. http://www.wirelessmapping.com/Google%20Maps3.htm From: motorola-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:motorola-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rick Harnish Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 1:47 PM To: 'Motorola Canopy User Group'; memb...@wispa.org; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [Motorola II] [WISPA Members] Lobbying Donations So Far Here is what has been documented so far. If Matt doesn't have zip codes of the coverage areas, there is a 10 mile circle drawn around the office address I believe. That is why it is important that everyone registers there zip codes. I would like to see that map turn YELLOW over the next few weeks. From: motorola-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:motorola-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ben Wiechman Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 1:29 PM To: 'Motorola Canopy User Group' Subject: Re: [Motorola II] [WISPA Members] Lobbying Donations So Far Is there a working copy of Brian's map available for us to verify coverage that we have entered into the directory and ensure accuracy? Ben Wiechman From: motorola-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:motorola-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rick Harnish Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 12:20 PM To: memb...@wispa.org; 'Motorola Canopy User Group' Subject: Re: [Motorola II] [WISPA Members] Lobbying Donations So Far Jason, First Question: This lobbying effort is to guide the policy and rules that are written once the Broadband Stimulus Act is passed through Congress, which the Obama Administration wants done by Feb. 16th. I don't know anything about a bailout plan. Our lobbying efforts will try to insure that at least a portion of the funding granted by this act will be reserved for small to medium size companies and we will also be seeking to identify WISPs as credible Broadband providers in many underserved areas of the country. All of our efforts will be to support the WISP industry as the various Government departments work through Second Question: We are working in partnership with WISP Directory and Brian Webster's Wireless Mapping to get a better idea on the actual WISP coverage across the United States. We need all WISPs to go to www.wispdirectory.com and check their company information and add the zip codes they cover. Once those records are updated, Matt Larsen sends the info to Brian and he generates a estimated coverage map by drawing circles around the center of each zip code reported. It is not perfect by any means but it is aggregate data that we can use to prove the scope of our industry to politicians. Third Question: Would you be willing to write some survey questions and send them to me? I'm not entirely sure what you are looking to accomplish but survey's are excellent tools to do this type of study. Thanks, Rick From: members-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:members-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jason Petrillo Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 12:01 PM To: memb...@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA Members] [Motorola II] Lobbying Donations So Far Rick, As part of the lobbying effort what sort of metrics will you use to prove that a bailout is needed? I've done a bit of research and can't find any timely data specific to WISPs. Maybe a survey of WISPA members would be in order? Jason -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] [WISPA Members] Wireless Mapping Website
If a WISP has a version of their network footprint drawn in Google Earth or as a KML/KMZ file I can accept that directly. Keep in mind this map is not automatically created. I have to do the overlay by hand. If you send me an update I may very well wait until there are other updates before I create a new version of the map. It make more sense for me to do the work with batches of data. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: Rick Harnish [mailto:rharn...@onlyinternet.net] Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 4:44 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Cc: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com Subject: RE: [WISPA] [Motorola II] [WISPA Members] Wireless Mapping Website Travis, I'm pretty sure that Brian told me during Animal Farm that he would accept a shape that defines your coverage area. He can address this himself. Rick From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 3:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] [WISPA Members] Wireless Mapping Website Rick, Is there some way to make this easier? We cover a ton of zip codes (towns as small as 50 people). It would be easier to just draw on a map... or even if we could provide GPS coordinates (like the four corners of a square)? Travis Microserv Rick Harnish wrote: I believe as Brian gets the new data from Matt and has time, he updates it.How long that takes, I do not know. Rick -Original Message-From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] OnBehalf Of Mike HammettSent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 2:38 PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] [WISPA Members] Wireless Mapping Website How often is that map updated? -Mike HammettIntelligent Computing lutionshttp://www.ics-il.com - -From: Rick Harnish rharn...@onlyinternet.netSent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 1:01 PMTo: 'Motorola Canopy User Group' motor...@wispa.org; memb...@wispa.org; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.orgSubject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] [WISPA Members] Wireless Mapping Website Sorry Guys, I forgot to post the website.http://www.wirelessmapping.com/Google%20Maps3.htm From: motorola-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:motorola-boun...@wispa.org] OnBehalf Of Rick HarnishSent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 1:47 PMTo: 'Motorola Canopy User Group'; memb...@wispa.org; 'WISPA General List'Subject: Re: [Motorola II] [WISPA Members] Lobbying Donations So Far Here is what has been documented so far. If Matt doesn't have zip codes ofthe coverage areas, there is a 10 mile circle drawn around the officeaddress I believe. That is why it is important that everyone registersthere zip codes. I would like to see that map turn YELLOW over the next fewweeks. From: motorola-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:motorola-boun...@wispa.org] OnBehalf Of Ben WiechmanSent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 1:29 PMTo: 'Motorola Canopy User Group'Subject: Re: [Motorola II] [WISPA Members] Lobbying Donations So Far Is there a working copy of Brian's map available for us to verify coveragethat we have entered into the directory and ensure accuracy? Ben Wiechman From: motorola-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:motorola-boun...@wispa.org] OnBehalf Of Rick HarnishSent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 12:20 PMTo: memb...@wispa.org; 'Motorola Canopy User Group'Subject: Re: [Motorola II] [WISPA Members] Lobbying Donations So Far Jason, First Question: This lobbying effort is to guide the policy and rules thatare written once the Broadband Stimulus Act is passed through Congress,which the Obama Administration wants done by Feb. 16th. I don't knowanything about a bailout plan. Our lobbying efforts will try to insure thatat least a portion of the funding granted by this act will be reserved forsmall to medium size companies and we will also be seeking to identify WISPsas credible Broadband providers in many underserved areas of the country.All of our efforts will be to support the WISP industry as the variousGovernment departments work through Second Question: We are working in partnership with WISP Directory andBrian Webster's Wireless Mapping to get a better idea on the actual WISPcoverage across the United States. We need all WISPs to go towww.wispdirectory.com and check their company information and add the zipcodes they cover. Once those records are updated, Matt Larsen sends theinfo to Brian and he generates a estimated coverage map by drawing circlesaround the center of each zip code reported. It is not perfect by any meansbut it is aggregate data that we can use to prove the scope of our industryto politicians. Third Question: Would you be willing to write some survey questions andsend them to me? I'm not entirely sure what you are looking to accomplishbut survey's are excellent tools to do this type of study. Thanks, Rick From: members-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:members-boun...@wispa.org
[WISPA] Updated National WISP Map
The national WISP mapping initiative has been updated. This version contains data provided by Matt Larsen off the WISP Directory site as of 1/21/09. I also added some actual WISP network footprints from my clients who gave permission. To date the land area covered equals 539,133 square miles. You can view the map here: http://www.wirelessmapping.com/Google%20Maps3.htm Next step is to compile demographic data. That's going to take some work...state by state. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] metal building install
What if you were to make some sort of box to fit over them out of plastic then cover it with Mylar mirroized film like on those chrome looking balloons or window tint? If that will be too reflective you might still consider painting a plastic box. I would not use a solid color however. You could wait until the building is finished then look at your mounting points from the ground and see the subtle differences in colors on the metal near those points and paint to match. Kind of like how they can paint something in a picture but it looks like chrome. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Jim Patient Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 7:05 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] metal building install I don't think I can get away with painted antennas on this one. I might have to get some custom covers made or something. I'm checking with couple sign makers to see if they can come up with something. This is a fancy new building with $$$ just in art around it and they want it to look good. I can't get on the roof. There are beacon lights mounted directly on top of the parrapit wall and nothing can be higher than the beacons. I've seen all kinds of palmtennas, rocktennas, bushtennas, etc. and just thought maybe someone had done something like this before. I was kind of hoping that someone would come back with Oh call Tom down at customdecorativeantennacovers.com ;-) Jim os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Be real careful the paint is not metallic. You might want to spray something microwave safe and put it in the microwave oven to see if it gets hot or sparks for a test. You could end up losing a lot of db in the paint. Greg On Jan 7, 2009, at 5:34 PM, 3-dB Networks wrote: I'm just trying to picture a brushed stainless steel wall... I don't know if I have seen a building like that before (at least one that wasn't super modern). The cheapest solution is going to be a silver colored spray paint... after that I can't think of anything good. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jim Patient Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 2:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] metal building install I don't have a picture handy. There isn't much to see though. It is just a plain stainless steel wall at the areas the antennas are going. Jim 3-dB Networks wrote: Can you provide a picture of the building? Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jim Patient Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 12:00 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] metal building install We have a project to install 5GHz sectors on a large beautiful building that has brushed stainless sheeting on the sides. The antennas must be installed on the outside walls and cannot be higher than the sides. They want the antennas to be hidden or as non-obtrusive as possible. Anyone got any ideas on how to cover, hide, or camouflage the antennas? There will be 3 sectors on each side. If anyone has done something like this and would care to share pictures, that would be great. Jim - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http
Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow
Tom, The points you make seem to drive home the point that some leasing companies and other consultants try to make. Keep your cash on hand for operational expenses and use leasing to purchase the equipment. This preserves your capital even though it may cost more in interest. Using that logic it would seem that the lease would allow you to purchase the equipment and start producing cash flow. You could show the SBA or RUS this cash flow in addition to having your capital still in the bank as collateral. Cash as collateral is easier for a lender to understand than some sort of technology that could be obsolete in 6 months. This is not the solution for everyone and if you can't get a lease it obviously doesn't work. Business owners should consider this about debt and the deflation possibility, when you have paid cash for your equipment and they deflate the dollar, your equipment investment just deflated as well. The only thing it can give you then is cash flow (as long as you have it installed and a paying customer on the equipment). If however you bought all of that equipment using credit and they deflate the dollar you have actually hedged against the deflation because your cash did not get deflated, yet you are still producing revenue on the other people's money you used. If you can get good credit terms and can make the numbers work I would personally borrow like crazy and expand to ramp up cash flow. The numbers will work if the government doesn't cause deflation, but if they do it works out even better. People who have loans always make out better in deflationary times over people who have hard cash assets. If you don't have assets they don't lose value. The person who built their business on cash or personal assets loses out twice. First the value of everything they already paid for depreciated in a big way and then the cash flow they are producing is buying less because of inflation. Hope that makes sense.. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 3:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow Chuck, I will contact you offlist. I have some question. I have not tried SBA recently, and its time that I probably should, before I critisize the program. My point was... In past experience SBA enabled guaranteeing very low rates, but SBA could sometimes be harder to get than traditional loans, as SBA required more documentation. Very few SBA loans get defaulted on, because they have such strong requirements. I found the same thing with RUS loans. The misconception by many is that SBA gives loans, which is not the case. SBA guarantees other bank loans. So those banks are giving loans at lower interest than they normally do, because of the SBA's guarantee. But the SBA still wants to cover themselves similar to any other lender. It does not get the borrower off the hook for proving credit worthiness, by traditional industry methods. What I always found Ironic was that to get the SBA loan, one had to prove they were turned down by other lenders. But then the SBA potentially would turn down applicants for the same reasons. All loans have the same requirement, proving 1) ability to pay back (pre-existing consistent cashflow and profit from revenue stream), 2) proven credit worthiness, 3) colateral. Getting a lower interest, just makes the lenders look more closely to prove the above. There are very few lenders that will lend based on a potential of a business plan (that does not have pre-existing good cash flow to back it up), or simply based on the merit of the business. I find that borrowers that don't have problems getting loans are borrowers who have had a past life that had already established their high credit worthiness, usually via personal assets, or by having multiple officers to guarantee the loans. The big problem that I ran into was... I sold most of my traditional assets to fund my network build outs. And then invested all profit back into the business to build out the network, there fore increasing potential. And then Banks did not look at those network assets with a value, the same as they would if it was still real estate, so to speak, that was recognized as a safe liquitable asset. I have found that obtaining finance requires long term planning and preperation, to position oneself to look good to financers by their standards. I have found that being more or less debt free, and owning a network, had no value to the lenders that I have talked to. Even with RUS matching fund loans, it seemed similar. They were more interested in what new money I'd put in, for them to match, and did not value the money already put in and spent.. My company is growing, and my financials are improving to be loan worthy, so I won't have a finance problem to much longer. But it was a long road
Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow
Crossroads has shut things down for now due to money supply. Apparently with the banking crisis their banks have delayed releasing funds to them for deployment. My project for them was shut down back at the end of August. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of jp Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:14 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow I'm all for having someone else pay for expensive infrastructure, but I hope that if the feds go forward with something like this, it's done differently than the RUS system. It's easier to do business my way and pay a tiny bit more for money from a bank, than to do all the RUS planning and paperwork hoops to get RUS subsidized loans. Speaking of RUS, has anyone noticed any crossroads wireless stuff happening? They've signed up to be at lots of sites, but I haven't actually heard much about deployment activity. On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 12:52:31PM -0500, Josh Luthman wrote: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123059580600140977.html?mod=googlenews_wsj Hopefully the cable companies haven't bought out the decision makers. It would be great to see the WISPs across the states that are doing exactly what is being suggested needs done gets assistance. I know it can't come soon enough for this small WISP! We have all had the pleasure to earn a customer that has three kids nagging at him for a PC and Internet access with that extra bonus check from work, but think of the countless older couples or less fortunate families that could really use the help catching up with the rest of the world technologically. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's time again for those New Years Resolutions
Yes Charles, that was a great post and thank you for sharing it with us. Sometimes we all need a reminder to look back at our own successes in life. If we were to analyze how we achieved them, we would be able to show that all of the elements of your post were there. In many cases they happen accidentally and we never break things down to how we did it, and worse we don't apply those same steps to achieve other successes and goals. Think and Grow Rich is a great book, one if which I haven't read in some years. Might be time to dust off the old copy and look it over again. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 1:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's time again for those New Years Resolutions Nice post Charles. I have known you for a few years. You are one of the most driven people I have ever known. I like the fact that you live your life to be a success in all you do. More importantly, you are sharing how you make things happen for you. Too often we live our lives without sharing our successes and how we achieved them. When I reflect on the last year of things I have read here that made me really think about how I do things your posts float to the top. This post in particular has me thinking more about the mechanics of actually achieving more in my life. Good men succeed in all they do. Great men teach their friends to succeed. I hope you have a very prosperous and Happy New Year, Charles. I know we all will if we live our lives with half the desire to achieve more as you have outlined. Warmest regards, John Scrivner On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 9:00 AM, Charles Wu (CTI) c...@cticonnect.comwrote: Fulfilling Your Dreams - Five Easy Steps As we say farewell to 2008 and welcome 2009, it's time to shine. What an idea juncture for reflecting, planning and determining what our dreams really are and how we will achieve them. How many of you have already established your resolutions (goals) for 2009? If you take this process to heart, it can transform every aspect of your life. I've been a dedicated goal writer since high school, and herein I will share some notes and ideas about the process from my personal journal. Insufficient Education Studies suggest less than 4 percent of people in the United States set written goals. The same studies show that many of that 4 percent are among the wealthiest people in the nations. When I ask people why they don't set goals, they often say they don't know how or they've just never done it before. Indeed, most people spend more time making grocery lists than planning for their most cherished dreams. Isn't that unbelievable? We go to school for a dozen or so years before graduating from high school. Afterwards, many of us go to trade schools, colleges or universities. We learn many important disciplines in school, including math, history, economics, literature, science and so forth, but we miss one critically important skill: goal setting. We obtain degrees, get pats on our backs, and go out into the world. We may be full of knowledge and hope, but are generally ill-prepared to design and pursue the lives we really want. Many of us didn't get this training at home because our parents have not been disciplined to write goals themselves. As a result, we fall into the 96% of the population that goes through life having never understood or practiced the art of setting and obtaining goals and dreams. How can you achieve that which you cannot see? How can you strive toward a mark that's not even defined? Whether you're already a goal setter, you used to set goals and quit, or you've never set goals, the following steps will help you build a better life. Let's welcome 2009 with clarity of purpose and a plan to achieve our goals. Step 1: What Dream BIG. Get a blank ledger pad and let your imagination run wild while you fill up your sheet of paper with everything you want to accomplish, become, experience or have. Many adults have lost their ability to dream, and that's unfortunate. By dreaming you instill hope for your future, and with hope, there's possibility. So your assignment is to take this advice seriously and make a list. During the coming week, devote at least one hour to dreaming. I want you to create a dream list filled with ideas. Your list should include at least 25 dreams pertaining to what you want to accomplish, become, experience or have. The page should have lines. Each goal should be to the left side of the line, with the remaining portion of that line left blank. Skip a line between your goals, leaving plenty of room to write beside each goal. You can separate your dreams into categories: family, education, work or business, travel, spirituality, personal objectives and so on. Think about what you would like
Re: [WISPA] wholesale bandwidth
You know it might be a good idea to compile a list of companies for bandwidth and place it on the WISPA site. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:37 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] wholesale bandwidth Wow, and who says there's not fiber in rural America? Cooperative's Broadband Network has a significant amount of Missouri along with parts of Arkansas and Oklahoma covered... Fiber is out there people, you just have to look for it. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Mark McElvy mmce...@accubak.com Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:01 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] wholesale bandwidth ShowMe Power -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:06 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] wholesale bandwidth If you let me know who that carrier is, I can help you out. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Mark McElvy mmce...@accubak.com Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 5:18 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] wholesale bandwidth I am in Salem, MO but I have Fibre to my office. My Fibre carrier has POP's in Rolla and St Louis so if I can find some cheap bandwidth they can transport for me. Mark -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 4:48 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] wholesale bandwidth Mark McElvy wrote: I am looking for wholesale bandwidth providers to either St Louis or Rolla Missouri. Do you need it delivered to your door, or just somewhere in town? Saint Louis has a couple downtown telco-hotel facilities (900 Walnut and 210 Tucker, I think); you should be able to rent rack space and get basically as much connectivity as you want there. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] wholesale bandwidth
If someone can feed me data that is not protected by an NDA I would gladly do that. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: Chuck McCown - 3 [mailto:ch...@beehive.net] Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 11:11 AM To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] wholesale bandwidth How about a composite fiber map? - Original Message - From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 8:56 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] wholesale bandwidth You know it might be a good idea to compile a list of companies for bandwidth and place it on the WISPA site. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:37 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] wholesale bandwidth Wow, and who says there's not fiber in rural America? Cooperative's Broadband Network has a significant amount of Missouri along with parts of Arkansas and Oklahoma covered... Fiber is out there people, you just have to look for it. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Mark McElvy mmce...@accubak.com Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:01 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] wholesale bandwidth ShowMe Power -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:06 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] wholesale bandwidth If you let me know who that carrier is, I can help you out. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Mark McElvy mmce...@accubak.com Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 5:18 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] wholesale bandwidth I am in Salem, MO but I have Fibre to my office. My Fibre carrier has POP's in Rolla and St Louis so if I can find some cheap bandwidth they can transport for me. Mark -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 4:48 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] wholesale bandwidth Mark McElvy wrote: I am looking for wholesale bandwidth providers to either St Louis or Rolla Missouri. Do you need it delivered to your door, or just somewhere in town? Saint Louis has a couple downtown telco-hotel facilities (900 Walnut and 210 Tucker, I think); you should be able to rent rack space and get basically as much connectivity as you want there. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - - -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - - -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Transit and transport providers list
I can create a Google Map interface with address lookup capability and plot any address lists for POP's and such that people can feed me. This data needs to not be under an NDA however and the map would have to be on a public portion of a web site (Maybe the WISPA site). I can host it if there are no other takers. The key would be a good address list with contact information. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 11:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Transit and transport providers list Brian Webster suggested that we make a list (posted to the WISPA site) of bandwidth carriers. I'd be happy to help on this effort, but I certainly don't have the time (or the programming skills) to dedicate to make it what I would like to see. I'm thinking as grand as type in a ZIP code and it tells you the nearest POP meeting certain characteristics of which could be carrier, technologies supported (wireless, TDM, Ethernet, etc.), service type (DIA, dark fiber, PtP transport, MPLS transport, etc.), and others. It could be as simple as just a basic list of companies. What would you guys like to see? I'm thinking that people could contribute their knowledge of what's available, then someone confirms if that's true or not. In comes the problem of carriers thinking of their POP locations and capabilities as a hush, hush secret instead of a marketing tool. I think this would be a great tool to have as a benefit to WISPA membership, but alas my effort would be self defeating as I'm not a WISPA member (funds). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Transit and transport providers list
It's the Google Maps requirement. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: D. Ryan Spott [mailto:rsp...@cspott.com] Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:53 PM To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Transit and transport providers list Is the public portion of the website a requirement of Google Maps? or something else? ryan Brian Webster wrote: I can create a Google Map interface with address lookup capability and plot any address lists for POP's and such that people can feed me. This data needs to not be under an NDA however and the map would have to be on a public portion of a web site (Maybe the WISPA site). I can host it if there are no other takers. The key would be a good address list with contact information. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 11:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Transit and transport providers list Brian Webster suggested that we make a list (posted to the WISPA site) of bandwidth carriers. I'd be happy to help on this effort, but I certainly don't have the time (or the programming skills) to dedicate to make it what I would like to see. I'm thinking as grand as type in a ZIP code and it tells you the nearest POP meeting certain characteristics of which could be carrier, technologies supported (wireless, TDM, Ethernet, etc.), service type (DIA, dark fiber, PtP transport, MPLS transport, etc.), and others. It could be as simple as just a basic list of companies. What would you guys like to see? I'm thinking that people could contribute their knowledge of what's available, then someone confirms if that's true or not. In comes the problem of carriers thinking of their POP locations and capabilities as a hush, hush secret instead of a marketing tool. I think this would be a great tool to have as a benefit to WISPA membership, but alas my effort would be self defeating as I'm not a WISPA member (funds). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] WISP Directory map update with land area calculations
Matt sent me an updated list of zip codes and two other WISP's had me add their network footprint to this version of the map. Land area covered now is 460,627 square miles. View the map here : http://www.wirelessmapping.com/Google%20Maps3.htm This map is still not ready for production, just posting it for those who are curious. Thank You, Brian Webster WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Target market for wisps
And to add to that idea, put another site in the area maybe to the South to shed some of the load from the current AP. This of course takes careful planning with coverage overlaps and frequency re-use to avoid self interference or using up the spectrum needlessly. Deploying systems that have some sort of time synchronization also helps a great deal. Self interference can be more easily controlled. In a metro market with a lot of noise, you would be surprised how well it works, even when competing with another WISP. When I worked for EarthLink, we were able to do this in Philly with a competing WISP (In this case using Canopy). It was hard getting both sides to the table to adjust network timing issues, but after that was done most of the interference problems went away. It is very hard to make any type of carrier sense collision avoidance (CSMA) technology not interfere with itself and get maximum frequency reuse. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 2:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Target market for wisps Use other frequencies and install more sectors... 5.3ghz for short range customers 5.4ghz for short range customers 5.8ghz for longer distances Travis Microserv Steve Barnes wrote: Need some advice here. We have this issue already but I am having to turn down clients due to noise in the City. I have a 3 Sector 300ft Tower 1 mile north of town of 10,000 residents. The southern sector has the worst problem with signals due to the noise everyone's routers gives off. So my 2.4 In the city is really bad. How are others servicing these people? Using StarOS and Tranzeo 2.4. I also have a 5.8 sector over the city but that is for Business Clients. Steve Barnes RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 12:06 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Target market for wisps The portion of homes with cell phones but no landlines has grown to 18 percent, led by adults living with unrelated roommates, renters and young people, according to federal figures released Wednesday. An additional 13 percent of households have landlines but get all or nearly all calls on their cells, the survey showed. Taken together, that means about three in 10 households are essentially reachable only on their wireless phones. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081217/ap_on_hi_te/cell_phones_only WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] test
Just testing to see if I got bounced due to server outages... Thank You, Brian Webster WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] survey says
Interesting to note that by these numbers there is an average of just over 1000 subscribers per WISP. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 8:37 PM To: wireless@wispa.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] survey says Brand # Subs % By Subs Redline 286 0.30% Alvarion 4027 4.24% Ubiquity 1778 1.87% Canopy 41617 43.85% Other 8316 8.76% Trango 11352 11.96% Tranzeo 12779 13.47% MT 14746 15.54% Total 94901 100.00% Responses 93 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Book1.xls
Mac, Since this industry has really started to mature, I would not be surprised if this data is pretty close to the industry as a whole. While the makeup of the WISPA member WISP's may not all be big like this, there are certainly plenty of them that aren't members. Here is a link to a report done in California http://www.redwoodtech.org/files/CBI_WISP_Report_WorkingDraft_0.pdf about the status of the WISP industry. This was done by the state broadband task force and seems fairly balanced. California has done a pretty good job of documenting where broadband exists, that is, given what any one entity can do to document all the private business. I worked with one client to compare their results to what they knew as local market reality and it was pretty close. Heck there must be a lot more WISP's out there buying equipment that we know of at WISPA, I don't think the equipment manufacturers could survive on just the WISPA numbers alone. Given that they still develop new products also indicates there is more market than you or I may be aware of or else they would not still put RD efforts in to something they don't think they could sell and make profit on. I'm of the firm belief this industry is much bigger than anyone realizes, which is why I want to get the mapping initiative off the ground to start benchmarking things. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mac Dearman Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 5:10 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WISPA] Book1.xls Chuck, I think someone (read - as in very many) have stretched the truth with your survey. I could be wrong, (not the first time) but according to your poll the 43 WISPs have an average of 1153.418 subscribers each! It appears that 27 of the 43 WISPs used Canopy and those 27 ISPs count for a total of 1162.3 subs each while the total of the rest of the WISPs combined (16) have an average of 1138.3 subscribers I guess there could be some really huge WISPs out here that participated in the survey that I am not aware of. Cool survey THANKS!! Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:43 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Book1.xls Got tired of adding it up each time. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.15/1833 - Release Date: 12/6/2008 4:55 PM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Book1.xls
And I think there was one big operator in New Orleans that deployed Canopy as part of their network (EarthLink perhaps?). In fact I think I know one of the guys who had to do some engineering work on that system :-) Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Joe Laura Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 9:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Book1.xls Mac, I am just about all canopy in Louisana and I think there is a big canopy user in Baton Rouge as well. Joe Laura Superior Alarm/Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Book1.xls
Did they finally take it down? I hadn't checked up on it much after I left. I do know they had opened up that networkwork with no bandwidth limitations so anyone could get up to a 6 meg connection. They were giving away between 15 and 18 thousand sessions a month, all because they would not put anybody on the task to do bandwidth control using a device that actually worked. That drove me nuts when I was there. They claimed they wouldn't make any money on Wi-Fi but in that city they were giving it all away and the numbers were there to prove the business case Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: Joe Laura [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 9:51 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Book1.xls Yep, That was Earthlink. They were using canopy and tropos all over the city. That is until they took it all down. 2.4 actually works here now once again. Joe Laura Superior Alarm/Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:45 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Book1.xls And I think there was one big operator in New Orleans that deployed Canopy as part of their network (EarthLink perhaps?). In fact I think I know one of the guys who had to do some engineering work on that system :-) Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Joe Laura Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 9:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Book1.xls Mac, I am just about all canopy in Louisana and I think there is a big canopy user in Baton Rouge as well. Joe Laura Superior Alarm/Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth Shaping (WAS Article)
That is a reasonable thing to do. As soon as people start to use video streaming as a mass adoption, not just early adopters, the streaming movie services will turn to crap, and network operators will do just what you are proposing. Not because they want to be controlling content, but it can not be supported economically given today's backhauls. You won't be the only one doing the capping. I don't see this as an issue of net neutrality, but a problem of infrastructure. I think NetFlix and Blockbuster are going to be in for a reality shock when they realize all people with broadband don't really have an all you can eat, as much as you want, for as long as you want, connection. Right now with backhaul capacity being what it is, video is best left to networks that were built for it. Fiber, coax, over the air broadcasts, and satellite. Not a data network that never promised full time constant capacity. The content providers may not like that statement and may cry foul, but it's the current state of the infrastructure, not protective business practices. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: Travis Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:37 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth Shaping (WAS Article) I'm not sure this fixes anything either. Even if you cap people at 1Mbps, if they are watching a movie, they are using that 1Mbps for 2 hours constant. My cost on that 1Mbps is $40, the same price I am selling the service to them for... yet I have all the overhead and expenses to keep it running. I may have to buy a Netflix box or an Xbox-360 just to see what IP blocks these devices are pulling from, then I will just start throttling the entire netblock to each service... rather than trying to control each customer. Allocate 5Mbps to all of Netflix's IP's on my network... then if people want to get better streaming service, they can pay me to un-throttle their connection. ;) Travis Microserv Brian Webster wrote: I like the idea Chuck and others have used in regards to shaping. Give them a wide open connection for a short burst of time and then throttle them back to what they are paying for (say a minute or so). This will give them awesome performance for things like web pages and speed tests and most email, yet when they decide to be hogs using technology that is a constant demand on the connection, it won't cripple your network. This in conjunction with bandwidth caps should keep you solvent until the backhaul infrastructure in the US gets more robust, more accessible, and cheaper. Until then you just need to tell the clients the basic economic truth of how much constant internet really costs. Comcast and others are starting to bit cap their services so they must be seeing the same things you are. Show the customers your bill for your backhaul and ask them if they would like to pay that each month. Even those on FIOS and other Fiber technologies see those realities once their internet destination goes outside the private fiber circuits. FIOS may be fast but it sure exposes the sites and locations that don't have huge pipes serving them. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth Shaping (WAS Article) Rick, Just for what it's worth, we are seeing an increase in overall usage as well. We have been in the ISP business since 1994. It was only about a year ago that we went over 100Mbps of incoming traffic during peak time... and just today, we peaked at 176Mbps. So in a year's time we increased by 75% the amount of bandwidth usage by our customers. Of course we added new customers, etc. but that was at the same rate we have been adding customers for 5+ years. Solution? There isn't a good one. I remember people saying things like I just leave my customers wide open because then they will use what they need and then get off, so they are online less and stuff like that. Those days are long gone. If you give people a 5Mbps connection, they will use 5Mbps. And now, rather than just doing what they were doing, they will just start more downloads or movies or TV because they can. Travis Microserv RickG wrote: I have WRAP boards on all towers that provide limited bandwidth shaping. I just recently installed a Mikrotik firewall (and love it). It's shaping and rules cover all customers. As far as bandwidth hits, the previous owner oversold and overmarketed the amount of bandwidth in order to gain subscribers (i.e. premium 3Mbps accounts when he only had 3Mbps). Since bandwidth is very expensive and difficult to get here, this has led to a sluggish network that I am having difficulty resolving. Therefore, the customers have been complaining. The good news is that after
Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system
And in the very near future PowerCode will also be able to integrate coverage mapping should you decide to do so. John and I have it working but it just needs a few things cleaned up to make it ready for prime time. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:40 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system On Wed, 3 Dec 2008, Anthony Will wrote: Some things it has to have: A system that integrates with a bandwidth management and auto shutdown for delinquent accounts. Can process a customer form lead to install and handle trouble tickets afterward including installer scheduling. can actually accurately and consistently send a bill by email to a customer... - major importance. Credit Card processing. Decent and totally customizable report generating system. Customer portal. Things that would be a bonus Inventory management Network monitoring Sounds like you're describing Powercode. It reads like an advertisement for them anyway. I'll send you an email offlist with some questions and details. I apologize for the cross post, It's ok..I didn't cross post the answer. :-) -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Nice Paper about WISP's, specifically in California but very well written
I just stumbled across this web page and a link to a report about the state of the WISP industry in California. The author conducted a very good survey of WISP's and summarized the industry very well. Thought you might like a look at the results. Much of this information will not be news to you, but it is a good reference document to give to folks who might not understand our industry. I would venture a guess that the results he came to statistically would be similar in the rest of the US. http://www.redwoodtech.org/wisp-report http://www.redwoodtech.org/files/CBI_WISP_Report_WorkingDraft_0.pdf Thank You, Brian Webster WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Updated White Spaces mapping tool
John, I included all the channels because you will need to look at them as adjacent channels that need to be protected. I could have done a lot more with this but the time requirement to provide this as a free tool is well above what I have the capacity to do. That is also why you got the analog stuff in one lump sum file. It would have taken me double the time I already spent on this to go and create the same capability for the analog channels. There is still a lot of information I need to learn about how the rules are going to work in the white spaces. At this point I thought for the good of the group, I would just get as much information out there in a useable format that I could afford to provide for free. In cases such as the PLMRS for the metro areas, it would be simple for WISP's in those markets to just delete or not use those contours in their investigations. If there were an easily accessible set of GIS data for these things and the border protection zones, I would gladly add them to the file. If they need to be created it would be some time before I could even start on that type of project. Thanks so much for your kind words. I appreciate the input and your notes about the exceptions will no doubt be noted by others who are using the tool! Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: John Valenti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 7:00 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Updated White Spaces mapping tool Brian, Thanks again for this! A few comments: (1) I was surprised to see channels 3 4 included, since those are prohibited everywhere (right?) (2) you might include a note on your web pages about the 32km canadian border limitation, also the 40/60km Mexican border limit. (I'm guessing that would be hard to include as an overlay) (3) I found a list of the 13 metro areas limited for PLMRS/CMRS operation at http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2002/octqtr/pdf/47cfr90.307.pdf (2 page PDF). For my situation, Detroit has channels 15 16, so channels 14-17 are off limits out to 134km, I think. I was also able to use the analog file after a few attempts. (I turned on everything and locked up Earth the 1st time) Do you know of a method to click on one of the analog overlays and find out what it is? I see there is one in the next county over, but I don't really want to go thru that long list and turn them on one at a time. Oh, is it OK to point other people at your tool? thanks again! PS - your webserver has a great connection, I had that 20MB file in about 30 seconds. :-) On Nov 24, 2008, at 12:09 AM, Brian Webster wrote: I have updated the White Spaces Google Earth Mapping tool to show ALL of the channels available for Fixed Wireless use. Please go to http://www.wirelessmapping.com/sample_maps.htm to download the latest version. There is also a second link to a file with the analog low power stations that may not convert to digital in February. It's a huge file and is only for reference. You will need to do some research on your own to determine if any particular station will remain on the air. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Updated White Spaces mapping tool
I was just thinking about the border buffer zones. That should not be too difficult to create. I'll get to that in a few days and post it as a separate file. I'll let the list know when it's ready. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 9:33 PM To: John Valenti; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Updated White Spaces mapping tool John, I included all the channels because you will need to look at them as adjacent channels that need to be protected. I could have done a lot more with this but the time requirement to provide this as a free tool is well above what I have the capacity to do. That is also why you got the analog stuff in one lump sum file. It would have taken me double the time I already spent on this to go and create the same capability for the analog channels. There is still a lot of information I need to learn about how the rules are going to work in the white spaces. At this point I thought for the good of the group, I would just get as much information out there in a useable format that I could afford to provide for free. In cases such as the PLMRS for the metro areas, it would be simple for WISP's in those markets to just delete or not use those contours in their investigations. If there were an easily accessible set of GIS data for these things and the border protection zones, I would gladly add them to the file. If they need to be created it would be some time before I could even start on that type of project. Thanks so much for your kind words. I appreciate the input and your notes about the exceptions will no doubt be noted by others who are using the tool! Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: John Valenti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 7:00 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Updated White Spaces mapping tool Brian, Thanks again for this! A few comments: (1) I was surprised to see channels 3 4 included, since those are prohibited everywhere (right?) (2) you might include a note on your web pages about the 32km canadian border limitation, also the 40/60km Mexican border limit. (I'm guessing that would be hard to include as an overlay) (3) I found a list of the 13 metro areas limited for PLMRS/CMRS operation at http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2002/octqtr/pdf/47cfr90.307.pdf (2 page PDF). For my situation, Detroit has channels 15 16, so channels 14-17 are off limits out to 134km, I think. I was also able to use the analog file after a few attempts. (I turned on everything and locked up Earth the 1st time) Do you know of a method to click on one of the analog overlays and find out what it is? I see there is one in the next county over, but I don't really want to go thru that long list and turn them on one at a time. Oh, is it OK to point other people at your tool? thanks again! PS - your webserver has a great connection, I had that 20MB file in about 30 seconds. :-) On Nov 24, 2008, at 12:09 AM, Brian Webster wrote: I have updated the White Spaces Google Earth Mapping tool to show ALL of the channels available for Fixed Wireless use. Please go to http://www.wirelessmapping.com/sample_maps.htm to download the latest version. There is also a second link to a file with the analog low power stations that may not convert to digital in February. It's a huge file and is only for reference. You will need to do some research on your own to determine if any particular station will remain on the air. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Updated White Spaces mapping tool
I think some will but I'm not completely sure. Somewhere there is a DTV transition database on the FCC web site that may shed more light on the topic. Just haven't had the time to research all of that. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: Mike Hammett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 10:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Updated White Spaces mapping tool Are the stations going to change the channels once they vacate their analog ones? I thought I heard that once. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 11:09 PM To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Updated White Spaces mapping tool I have updated the White Spaces Google Earth Mapping tool to show ALL of the channels available for Fixed Wireless use. Please go to http://www.wirelessmapping.com/sample_maps.htm to download the latest version. There is also a second link to a file with the analog low power stations that may not convert to digital in February. It's a huge file and is only for reference. You will need to do some research on your own to determine if any particular station will remain on the air. Thank You, Brian Webster -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Updated White Spaces mapping tool
I have updated the White Spaces Google Earth Mapping tool to show ALL of the channels available for Fixed Wireless use. Please go to http://www.wirelessmapping.com/sample_maps.htm to download the latest version. There is also a second link to a file with the analog low power stations that may not convert to digital in February. It's a huge file and is only for reference. You will need to do some research on your own to determine if any particular station will remain on the air. Thank You, Brian Webster WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] unlicensed under 2ghz
Don't forget about the spectrum for things like garage door openers (I think it's around 433 MHz), baby monitors and cordless phones in the 49 MHz range and probably others I am forgetting. They were talking about all unlicensed consumer devices, not just wireless networking stuff. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] unlicensed under 2ghz All I can come up with is the 83 MHz at 2.4 GHz and the... 28? MHz at 900 MHz. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 9:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] unlicensed under 2ghz Hi All, In reading the FCC's TV whitespaces report and order I came across this statement: Supporters of a licensed approach also hold that there is no need for additional spectrum for unlicensed devices. In this regard, Qualcomm submits that there is no evidence that consumers have had to return unlicensed devices because the unlicensed spectrum is too crowded.48 The Association for Maximum Service Television and the National Association of Broadcasters, in joint comments (MSTV/NAB), add there is over 100 megahertz of unlicensed spectrum below 2 GHz and that 255 MHz of spectrum in the 5 GHz band was made available for unlicensed use in 2003 and so there is plenty of spectrum available for unlicensed use.49 The White Space Coalition counters these arguments, stating that the propagation characteristics of the TV band are superior to the other unlicensed bands for many applications and that none of the other unlicensed spectrum is below 900 MHz Um, where is there 100mhz of unlicensed spectrum between 900mhz and 2 gig? What's available that I haven't been using yet? marlon -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DTV transition..... FACT or FICTION?
George, He is correct in that statement. There are exemptions for low power translators. That was one of the reasons I put that big disclaimer in my mapping tool. If you go here you can read about these special cases http://www.fcc.gov/oet/faqs/dtv-tvtx.html. If there will be these situations in your area the tool I sent out does not have the old analog contours loaded in. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 (607) 643-4055 Office (607) 435-3988 Mobile (208) 692-1898 Fax www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] DTV transition. FACT or FICTION? I was talking to one of the tv stations engineers out here on the coast. He has a translator here. I asked him how soon would we be seeing the DTV conversion. His answer is, not any time soon and we must have mis understood the situation. Translators are EXEMPT from having to go digital, and to boot, he said, out of 8,000 broadcasters nation wide, only 25% or so HAVE to convert, all the others, on translators, don't have to. Anyone else hear this or know differently? George WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool
I have had several requests to send the free Google Earth tool I created to show the TV white Spaces available for any given area in the US. I have posted a copy of the file on my web site. Scroll down the home page to the area just above the sample maps. There you will find the link to the file and an explanation for how to use the tool. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool
As far as I know, the white spaces will only be channels 21-51 excluding channel 37. That's why they aren't included in the file. I could be wrong on that but seems like I pulled that from some document somewhere. That was prior to the ruling. If you find information to the contrary I'll update the tool. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool Brian, When I looked at teh tool, it showed channels 20-52. Do you have mapping for channels 2-19? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 8:35 PM Subject: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool I have had several requests to send the free Google Earth tool I created to show the TV white Spaces available for any given area in the US. I have posted a copy of the file on my web site. Scroll down the home page to the area just above the sample maps. There you will find the link to the file and an explanation for how to use the tool. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.6/1797 - Release Date: 11/18/2008 11:23 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces
Everyone remember that I sent out a Google Earth file of what should be most of the digital TV footprint in America after February. That is subject to change of course but it's close. You would use that tool to find available channels in your area. It works great because you can turn on the channel above and below your channel of interest (the adjacent channels). If when you turn on all three channels there are no contours in the market of interest, you have available spectrum! Open the file in Google Earth, turn off the whole layer, expand the folder and turn them on one by one. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:00 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Now that TV whitespaces have been approved for our use, let's hear from the vendors. When, how much, and what will you do with it? Ladies and gents: I haven't read all of the published information yet, but this is the second greatest battle we have come across (second only to having unlicensed available in the first place) and we have won! Congrats. It appears the portable devices are held to 100 mw of power, while we have 4 watts (which is pretty much what we have everywhere else). Four watts at these frequencies will carry! Who cares what Sprint, Verizon, ATT, etc. are doing in the wireless world when we have unlicensed frequencies at an acceptable power and lower in frequency? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Theoretical TVWS coverage
I would imagine you will be able to have receive signals down to almost -95 or -98 dBm. Remember this should be relatively clean spectrum (and hopefully stay that way). According to Sascha the current white space devices that were in testing were supposed to receive signals 30 db below the signal required to receive a DTV signal. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:12 AM To: WISPA List Subject: [WISPA] Theoretical TVWS coverage Based on TV antenna, it looks like the largest gain CPE will be around 10 dB for all but the lowest of frequencies. I just ran a Radio Mobile coverage area using a guesstimate at a white spaces system... EIRP of 20 dBm, 16 dBi sector, 10 dBi CPE, -80 dBm minimum allowed receive. The range wasn't much more than 2 miles in flat country land. With those same measurements with a 36 dBm EIRP, we have 10 miles, but terrain comes more into play here. For the extreme rural areas, this is where tower height comes into play. For everyone else, this is your foliage beater. In these areas we still need small cells for bandwidth capacity and interference rejection. Remember, the only signal levels mentioned were 40 mw for personal portable devices. Anything else is just speculation at this point. They may very well give fixed stations 4 W as they do in all other unlicensed bands. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Theoretical TVWS coverage
Obviously we are still speculating here because the rules are certainly not clear. With technology development and the results I am hearing from those who are using WiMax equipment, I would say that -90 should be a safe signal level to use and still have good modulation rates. To assume TVWS will always get full modulation and then try to also claim that it is the most cost affective way to reach the low population density areas will be difficult. Site footprints have to be looked at lowest modulation rates because that RF signal is still out there. It is important to look at how far that signal will still be traveling even though you can't achieve full rates. The transmitted carrier will still be out there as part of the contour for your base and must be considered in the process of registration. Your footprint will still be very large even though you don't prefer to operate at the slower rates, which for others would be noise. To design a network with site footprints and spacing to achieve only full rates is an inefficient of spectrum because your undesired signal is still traveling a great distance preventing others from reusing that same spectrum. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: Mike Hammett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:29 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Theoretical TVWS coverage I chose -80 because in current operations, anything less isn't really utilizing the available spectrum. I try to engineer all of my links for full modulation. Anything less is a waste. I know -80 isn't full modulation, but it's not far away. Perhaps with more clean spectrum, receivers will be better, but the same was said about 3650 and that hasn't materialized. When browsing around on Channel Master's site that one of their DACs required -83 to -5 dBm with a SNR of 15 dB to operate. If TVWS devices are supposed to receive 30 dB below TV, then we should be able to receive signals that are -113 dBm. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 7:20 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Theoretical TVWS coverage I would imagine you will be able to have receive signals down to almost -95 or -98 dBm. Remember this should be relatively clean spectrum (and hopefully stay that way). According to Sascha the current white space devices that were in testing were supposed to receive signals 30 db below the signal required to receive a DTV signal. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:12 AM To: WISPA List Subject: [WISPA] Theoretical TVWS coverage Based on TV antenna, it looks like the largest gain CPE will be around 10 dB for all but the lowest of frequencies. I just ran a Radio Mobile coverage area using a guesstimate at a white spaces system... EIRP of 20 dBm, 16 dBi sector, 10 dBi CPE, -80 dBm minimum allowed receive. The range wasn't much more than 2 miles in flat country land. With those same measurements with a 36 dBm EIRP, we have 10 miles, but terrain comes more into play here. For the extreme rural areas, this is where tower height comes into play. For everyone else, this is your foliage beater. In these areas we still need small cells for bandwidth capacity and interference rejection. Remember, the only signal levels mentioned were 40 mw for personal portable devices. Anything else is just speculation at this point. They may very well give fixed stations 4 W as they do in all other unlicensed bands. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe
Re: [WISPA] Theoretical TVWS coverage
That's my point, the noise will be much lower in these bands if things are deployed in a sane way. Wimax gear has receive sensitivity in the -93 to -98 range and from the reports I have heard, works very well at those levels. While a WISP may be trying to set a network up for max modulation, the FCC will look at the contour a whitespace station creates in a much different way. It will be based on the RF energy it creates, not the signal margin above the receiver threshold needed to achieve the better modulation rate. If you map a realistic footprint based on a signal level down as low as -98, that might be closer to the contour they will create in their geolocation database. This contour will be the one they use to see if you will encroach on any TV contour or other protected/semi protected users of the spectrum. The WISP operator will not get to determine the contour limits based on their own desired modulation rate. I was saying that you should be able to use the -90 number in your mapping to get a more realistic sense of where the signal will be going and what size polygon you might have to deal with as you register it in a geolocation database. Remember, even though you may not agree that a particular signal level is adequate for your purposes at a certain level, the signal that still remains on the air at the lower levels, will be an interfering/undesired signal to all other systems. The FCC is charged with managing the total signal emitted, it's affects over distance, and the other users of the spectrum. They have the big picture to look at, while as a WISP it can be easy to overlook those other factors. I am not sure what the signal level will be that the FCC determines must be protected for TV receivers, but whatever that number is you would be wise to do RF plots that show signal down to that level. It may not be useable as a data network but it will certainly be able to bother TV reception at that level. WISP use of whitespaces will be a secondary use to LICENSED users of the band. And homeowners with off air TV reception will be considered licensed in this case. That is a different mindset from what most are used to. It will create the need for different thinking when planning a network. This is not bad news, just a new and different way to think about your RF planning. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 3:41 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Theoretical TVWS coverage I would say that -90 should be a safe signal level to use and still have good modulation rates. I'm a little confused on that statement. With our Aperto live testing a few years back (pre-wimax), the best modulation we could get was qam16 at the -85 levels. And that was before considering the 25db SNR required above the noise. What good is sensitivity, if the noise ends up being higher than the sensitivity? Sure TV broadcasters shot for -120, but thats one direction broadcasting, with no expense cut for technology. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:46 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Theoretical TVWS coverage Obviously we are still speculating here because the rules are certainly not clear. With technology development and the results I am hearing from those who are using WiMax equipment, I would say that -90 should be a safe signal level to use and still have good modulation rates. To assume TVWS will always get full modulation and then try to also claim that it is the most cost affective way to reach the low population density areas will be difficult. Site footprints have to be looked at lowest modulation rates because that RF signal is still out there. It is important to look at how far that signal will still be traveling even though you can't achieve full rates. The transmitted carrier will still be out there as part of the contour for your base and must be considered in the process of registration. Your footprint will still be very large even though you don't prefer to operate at the slower rates, which for others would be noise. To design a network with site footprints and spacing to achieve only full rates is an inefficient of spectrum because your undesired signal is still traveling a great distance preventing others from reusing that same spectrum. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: Mike Hammett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:29 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Theoretical TVWS coverage I chose -80 because in current operations, anything less isn't really utilizing the available spectrum. I try to engineer all of my links for full modulation
Re: [WISPA] Tool to find out if you might havewhitespacesspectrumavailable in your area.
Mark, Hit me off line and I'll see what I can do to help you out. Could be a graphics card issue. The file is large when unzipped within the program. You made need to switch between Open GL or DirectX modes to get around the issue. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mark McElvy Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tool to find out if you might havewhitespacesspectrumavailable in your area. Did that. Mark McElvy AccuBak Data Systems, Inc. 573.729.9200 -Original Message- From: Jeff Broadwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 20:38 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tool to find out if you might have whitespacesspectrumavailable in your area. You have to go in and check all or some of the channels. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark McElvy Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tool to find out if you might have white spacesspectrumavailable in your area. I guess I am missing something, no matter where I look I see no contour lines. Mark McElvy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 9:28 PM To: WISPA List Cc: Stephen Coran Subject: [WISPA] Tool to find out if you might have white spaces spectrumavailable in your area. Ok, so the static image maps I have been creating do not show an accurate picture channel by channel of the available white space spectrum. I decided that I would create a tool that all WISP's could use right now and get a good idea of how their own markets may be affected by white space spectrum being released. I used my GIS tools to create data layers channel by channel. From that I exported the results to a Google Earth file. (It's a large one, sorry the file size is large for list distribution, I compressed it as much as possible) Here is how you can use this. Open the file in Google Earth and you will see the folders specified by TV channel number. Zoom to your area of interest. Click on a channel and see if any contours show up in you desired coverage area. If they don't great, but you still need to check adjacent channels. You would do this by checking the boxes for the channel above and below the one you want to use. If no contours from those channels touch your desired area, you have a clean channel for potential use. This will all depend of course on how the final FCC rules are developed. DISCLAIMERS This mapping data was current as of 7-28-08 and only shows what I could best determine as digital channels. This is my best guess as to what will be on the air after the February 2009 cutover date and is by no means the final word. Things could change between now and then and some of these contours could change. This also does not show any current analog stations. There are some provisions for low power and translator stations to stay on the air in analog form and/or move channels after the cutover. This is pretty accurate but I'm not a Broadcast industry expert. Some of the digital stations might be temporary or for testing. I haven't had the time to look in to all the codes from the FCC database to weed that type of stuff out. You can download a free version of Google Earth at http://earth.google.com Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA
Re: [WISPA] Tool to find out if you might have white spaces spectrum available in your area.
Steve, Thanks for your kind words, they are greatly appreciated. I do my best to help this organization, as it is one I have believed in since the starting of WISPA. I have seen many stories and reports about whitespaces touting the amount of available spectrum. The problem has always been how to actually show someone, in their particular area, with a static map what is available. With all my mapping experience, I still had not seen nor could I come up with a suitable map image that would paint the proper picture. The WISPA proposal in front of the FCC is a complex issue and as much as I try, it's still hard to adequately explain even to the people on the FCC committee what the real picture is. This was the best way I knew how to solve that problem. Google Earth is something that I like to explain as the web browser of mapping data. I can make static maps all day long, but when I can put the same data in the hands of people to want to use it for decision making and allow them to view the results from different perspectives, it gives people a lot more power. This is the same method I use for showing RF plots generated in other programs as well as detailed demographic and market studies for my clients. They sure appreciate being able to play with the data and run their own what-if scenarios. Many times they come up with results they never anticipated. And as we all know, having a competitive edge never hurts. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: Steve Barnes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 7:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Tool to find out if you might have white spaces spectrumavailable in your area. Brian, I want to personally thank you for your input in this organization. This tool you provided is a gift to WISP's that you could have easily kept to yourself. In this cut throat industry there are many types of people trying to make a buck (as are you). It is great to see someone go out of his way to help others understand what might be in their future. Thank you for being an advocate for WISPA. Steve Barnes Executive Manager RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:28 PM To: WISPA List Cc: Stephen Coran Subject: [WISPA] Tool to find out if you might have white spaces spectrumavailable in your area. Ok, so the static image maps I have been creating do not show an accurate picture channel by channel of the available white space spectrum. I decided that I would create a tool that all WISP's could use right now and get a good idea of how their own markets may be affected by white space spectrum being released. I used my GIS tools to create data layers channel by channel. From that I exported the results to a Google Earth file. (It's a large one, sorry the file size is large for list distribution, I compressed it as much as possible) Here is how you can use this. Open the file in Google Earth and you will see the folders specified by TV channel number. Zoom to your area of interest. Click on a channel and see if any contours show up in you desired coverage area. If they don't great, but you still need to check adjacent channels. You would do this by checking the boxes for the channel above and below the one you want to use. If no contours from those channels touch your desired area, you have a clean channel for potential use. This will all depend of course on how the final FCC rules are developed. DISCLAIMERS This mapping data was current as of 7-28-08 and only shows what I could best determine as digital channels. This is my best guess as to what will be on the air after the February 2009 cutover date and is by no means the final word. Things could change between now and then and some of these contours could change. This also does not show any current analog stations. There are some provisions for low power and translator stations to stay on the air in analog form and/or move channels after the cutover. This is pretty accurate but I'm not a Broadcast industry expert. Some of the digital stations might be temporary or for testing. I haven't had the time to look in to all the codes from the FCC database to weed that type of stuff out. You can download a free version of Google Earth at http://earth.google.com Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] How much spectrum will we get with whitespaces?
Keep in mind that many of the contours on this map will go away after February. Most broadcasters have two channels on air to support both analog and digital. They will be turning off their digital stations that go back to the FCC and the DTV stations remaining run at 80% less power than the analog stations. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:50 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] How much spectrum will we get with whitespaces? That's great work Brian! Very cool stuff. To me, that helps to illustrate why adjacent channels are going to be so important to so many markets. Laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 11:27 PM Subject: [WISPA] How much spectrum will we get with whitespaces? I have been digging around the Digital TV transition rules and the Whitespaces data. From what I can tell, the spectrum allocated for whitespaces will be between TV Channels 21 and 51 excluding channel 37 (didn't find out why that is). So that represents 29-6 MHz wide channels or 174 MHz! That's a lot of potential spectrum! Now in my GIS program I was trying to see if I could map out the areas channel by channel to show how much of the US would have whitespaces available. I think I will have to wait for that until after February 2009. It seems that there are provisions for low power and translator stations, that give them the ability to move channels once the transition is complete by the high power broadcast stations. This will more than likely change the current TV contours maintained by the FCC (latest version I have is 7/28/08). It was also worth noting that the DTV stations are required to reduce their power levels and are permitted only one fifth the power they were under analog rules (which helps explain their resistance to unlicensed devices). This should also change the footprint of the TV contours and thus probably open up some geographic areas that right now look to be protected by looking at their analog contour. So, the bottom line I have concluded is that we can't really see what or where some of the RF crowded markets may be able to do with whitespaces. It is certain though that areas that already show to be clear will remain that way, and that more areas of the US may also become clear areas without any TV coverage in them whatsoever (at least in the whitespaces channels). In my research there have been many quotes by people like the New America Foundation as to how many channels will be cleared up by the DTV transition. Fact of the matter is, they are wrong due to the fact that the FCC and station owners have not yet finished all the channel swapping and we won't have a clear picture of that for some time after the February cutover date. This is due to the rules established for the Low Power (LPTV) and translator stations. http://www.fcc.gov/oet/faqs/dtv-tvtx.html I have attached a nationwide map of all the TV contours in the whitespaces range as of July 2008. This is only to illustrate the areas that will undoubtedly have spectrum available. This map does not show an accurate picture channel by channel and still shows the analog stations that may go off the air or reduce their footprints after February 2009. Due to the size of the legend I made that a separate file. Because of station contour overlap you may not be able to see each contour for each station in this map. The colors layered with the highest channels on top. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] How much spectrum will we get with whitespaces?
Sorry made a mistake, they will be turning off their analog stations. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 12:18 PM To: Marlon K. Schafer; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] How much spectrum will we get with whitespaces? Keep in mind that many of the contours on this map will go away after February. Most broadcasters have two channels on air to support both analog and digital. They will be turning off their digital stations that go back to the FCC and the DTV stations remaining run at 80% less power than the analog stations. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:50 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] How much spectrum will we get with whitespaces? That's great work Brian! Very cool stuff. To me, that helps to illustrate why adjacent channels are going to be so important to so many markets. Laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 11:27 PM Subject: [WISPA] How much spectrum will we get with whitespaces? I have been digging around the Digital TV transition rules and the Whitespaces data. From what I can tell, the spectrum allocated for whitespaces will be between TV Channels 21 and 51 excluding channel 37 (didn't find out why that is). So that represents 29-6 MHz wide channels or 174 MHz! That's a lot of potential spectrum! Now in my GIS program I was trying to see if I could map out the areas channel by channel to show how much of the US would have whitespaces available. I think I will have to wait for that until after February 2009. It seems that there are provisions for low power and translator stations, that give them the ability to move channels once the transition is complete by the high power broadcast stations. This will more than likely change the current TV contours maintained by the FCC (latest version I have is 7/28/08). It was also worth noting that the DTV stations are required to reduce their power levels and are permitted only one fifth the power they were under analog rules (which helps explain their resistance to unlicensed devices). This should also change the footprint of the TV contours and thus probably open up some geographic areas that right now look to be protected by looking at their analog contour. So, the bottom line I have concluded is that we can't really see what or where some of the RF crowded markets may be able to do with whitespaces. It is certain though that areas that already show to be clear will remain that way, and that more areas of the US may also become clear areas without any TV coverage in them whatsoever (at least in the whitespaces channels). In my research there have been many quotes by people like the New America Foundation as to how many channels will be cleared up by the DTV transition. Fact of the matter is, they are wrong due to the fact that the FCC and station owners have not yet finished all the channel swapping and we won't have a clear picture of that for some time after the February cutover date. This is due to the rules established for the Low Power (LPTV) and translator stations. http://www.fcc.gov/oet/faqs/dtv-tvtx.html I have attached a nationwide map of all the TV contours in the whitespaces range as of July 2008. This is only to illustrate the areas that will undoubtedly have spectrum available. This map does not show an accurate picture channel by channel and still shows the analog stations that may go off the air or reduce their footprints after February 2009. Due to the size of the legend I made that a separate file. Because of station contour overlap you may not be able to see each contour for each station in this map. The colors layered with the highest channels on top. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
