Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
Which brand of wimax gear you using? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 10:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal I have a small wimax deployment with 20 subs and 130 phone lines and I wouldn't change a thing. All business customers with very high quality voip. I section all the voip traffic out with ugs and leave the Internet as best effort to guarantee service levels. All my subs can easily get 5-6 megs upload which is far better than dsl or cable. And the best part is you set it and it is the same every day. All units keep the highest modulation (qam 64 3/4). If you do have one unit that has a week signal it really has no effect on the overall system. There are many other benefits but that is a few off the top of my head. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 17, 2010, at 9:22 PM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: anyone know the benefits of WiMax? I will leave most of the sales guys that man these lists, but there are a number of benefits to WiMAX that make it a better solution than simple polling or tdma approaches. After working some years in a WiMAX operator I couldn't agree more with Butch. The technology is incredibly good for outdoor networks. But besides better pricing (CPE, BS, spectrum), one thing I missed from current WiMAX technology was large channel size. Fixed WiMAX is usually available with 3.5 or 7 MHz channels; mobile WiMAX with 5 or 10 MHz channels. Wi-Fi already had non-standard 40 MHz with Turbo A/G and now has 40 MHz standard with 802.11n. With a small channel, even a high goodput/Hz couldn't go very far coping with increasing demands and we ended up installing unlicensed spectrum radios. My current mindset is that WiMAX is good for every application besides Internet access for computers. Surveillance, telephony and Internet access for mobile devices (including public safety and first responders) are all applications that WiMAX would edge out any other technology available on the market, as of Q1CY2010. 4G WiMAX (802.16m) might change that, I don't know. Will wait and see. Rubens --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
Axxcelera. I have a contact there that could probably get you a demo if you are interested. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 7:31 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: Which brand of wimax gear you using? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 10:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal I have a small wimax deployment with 20 subs and 130 phone lines and I wouldn't change a thing. All business customers with very high quality voip. I section all the voip traffic out with ugs and leave the Internet as best effort to guarantee service levels. All my subs can easily get 5-6 megs upload which is far better than dsl or cable. And the best part is you set it and it is the same every day. All units keep the highest modulation (qam 64 3/4). If you do have one unit that has a week signal it really has no effect on the overall system. There are many other benefits but that is a few off the top of my head. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 17, 2010, at 9:22 PM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: anyone know the benefits of WiMax? I will leave most of the sales guys that man these lists, but there are a number of benefits to WiMAX that make it a better solution than simple polling or tdma approaches. After working some years in a WiMAX operator I couldn't agree more with Butch. The technology is incredibly good for outdoor networks. But besides better pricing (CPE, BS, spectrum), one thing I missed from current WiMAX technology was large channel size. Fixed WiMAX is usually available with 3.5 or 7 MHz channels; mobile WiMAX with 5 or 10 MHz channels. Wi-Fi already had non-standard 40 MHz with Turbo A/G and now has 40 MHz standard with 802.11n. With a small channel, even a high goodput/Hz couldn't go very far coping with increasing demands and we ended up installing unlicensed spectrum radios. My current mindset is that WiMAX is good for every application besides Internet access for computers. Surveillance, telephony and Internet access for mobile devices (including public safety and first responders) are all applications that WiMAX would edge out any other technology available on the market, as of Q1CY2010. 4G WiMAX (802.16m) might change that, I don't know. Will wait and see. Rubens --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
Don't hold your breath for 802.16m! Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 7:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal anyone know the benefits of WiMax? I will leave most of the sales guys that man these lists, but there are a number of benefits to WiMAX that make it a better solution than simple polling or tdma approaches. After working some years in a WiMAX operator I couldn't agree more with Butch. The technology is incredibly good for outdoor networks. But besides better pricing (CPE, BS, spectrum), one thing I missed from current WiMAX technology was large channel size. Fixed WiMAX is usually available with 3.5 or 7 MHz channels; mobile WiMAX with 5 or 10 MHz channels. Wi-Fi already had non-standard 40 MHz with Turbo A/G and now has 40 MHz standard with 802.11n. With a small channel, even a high goodput/Hz couldn't go very far coping with increasing demands and we ended up installing unlicensed spectrum radios. My current mindset is that WiMAX is good for every application besides Internet access for computers. Surveillance, telephony and Internet access for mobile devices (including public safety and first responders) are all applications that WiMAX would edge out any other technology available on the market, as of Q1CY2010. 4G WiMAX (802.16m) might change that, I don't know. Will wait and see. Rubens WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto Networks -- the 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and 17 dbi integrated (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and 3.65 GHz with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same price. Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO? Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
I think the new motorola is mimo. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto Networks -- the 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and 17 dbi integrated (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and 3.65 GHz with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same price. Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO? Matt --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
No. We use 802.16d, which is optimized for fixed wireless, and 802.16d does not support MIMO. MIMO would be nice, but we do not think it is worth the extra cost in the WiMAX system. As it is we get excellent range. Last week one of our engineers was in a major CA city with a customer and pulled 16 mbps stable over 13 km in a 7 MHz channel. The capacity (link permitting) is up to 20 mbps and I have seen it at those ranges. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto Networks -- the 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and 17 dbi integrated (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and 3.65 GHz with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same price. Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO? Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports about the Moto 320 so far. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal I think the new motorola is mimo. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto Networks -- the 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and 17 dbi integrated (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and 3.65 GHz with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same price. Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO? Matt --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
Do you support PPPoE in the SM? Heard that MIMO helps tree penetration. Matt Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports about the Moto 320 so far. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal I think the new motorola is mimo. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto Networks -- the 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and 17 dbi integrated (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and 3.65 GHz with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same price. Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO? Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
Subchannelization should help penetration a little also. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you support PPPoE in the SM? Heard that MIMO helps tree penetration. Matt Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports about the Moto 320 so far. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal I think the new motorola is mimo. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto Networks -- the 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and 17 dbi integrated (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and 3.65 GHz with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same price. Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO? Matt --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
They don't support PPPoE, at least not in anything but the indoor unit which isn't available for 3.65 or 802.16D. I didn't think Aperto's gear which is 802.16d supports MIMO either, that's mostly an 802.16e spec unless they've come up with something proprietary. That's one of the reason's I'm down on Wimax, the radios are bare bones bridges for the most part, for the cost they are asking you think they could implement some niceties for fixed people, such as a robust management solution (not DHCP). Motorola is 802.16e and MIMO, as is Alvarion, WiNetworks and Airspan. Regards Michael Baird Subchannelization should help penetration a little also. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you support PPPoE in the SM? Heard that MIMO helps tree penetration. Matt Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports about the Moto 320 so far. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal I think the new motorola is mimo. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto Networks -- the 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and 17 dbi integrated (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and 3.65 GHz with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same price. Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO? Matt --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
Indeed MIMO does help through trees according to people I trust, but again we default to the but at what cost question. We believe this to be especially true in more rural deployments. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:52 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Subchannelization should help penetration a little also. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you support PPPoE in the SM? Heard that MIMO helps tree penetration. Matt Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports about the Moto 320 so far. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal I think the new motorola is mimo. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto Networks -- the 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and 17 dbi integrated (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and 3.65 GHz with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same price. Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO? Matt --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
Regular MIMO doesn't have to be expensive, UBNT has proven that. More complicated forms of diversity, well, that remains to be seen. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:04 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Indeed MIMO does help through trees according to people I trust, but again we default to the but at what cost question. We believe this to be especially true in more rural deployments. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:52 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Subchannelization should help penetration a little also. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you support PPPoE in the SM? Heard that MIMO helps tree penetration. Matt Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports about the Moto 320 so far. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal I think the new motorola is mimo. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto Networks -- the 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and 17 dbi integrated (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and 3.65 GHz with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same price. Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO? Matt --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
Yes, we support PPPoE. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Do you support PPPoE in the SM? Heard that MIMO helps tree penetration. Matt Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports about the Moto 320 so far. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal I think the new motorola is mimo. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto Networks -- the 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and 17 dbi integrated (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and 3.65 GHz with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same price. Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO? Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
We do support PPPoE Michael. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 8:04 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal They don't support PPPoE, at least not in anything but the indoor unit which isn't available for 3.65 or 802.16D. I didn't think Aperto's gear which is 802.16d supports MIMO either, that's mostly an 802.16e spec unless they've come up with something proprietary. That's one of the reason's I'm down on Wimax, the radios are bare bones bridges for the most part, for the cost they are asking you think they could implement some niceties for fixed people, such as a robust management solution (not DHCP). Motorola is 802.16e and MIMO, as is Alvarion, WiNetworks and Airspan. Regards Michael Baird Subchannelization should help penetration a little also. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you support PPPoE in the SM? Heard that MIMO helps tree penetration. Matt Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports about the Moto 320 so far. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal I think the new motorola is mimo. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto Networks -- the 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and 17 dbi integrated (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and 3.65 GHz with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same price. Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO? Matt --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
802.11 and its MIMO costs are not relevant to WiMAX and its MIMO costs. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Regular MIMO doesn't have to be expensive, UBNT has proven that. More complicated forms of diversity, well, that remains to be seen. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:04 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Indeed MIMO does help through trees according to people I trust, but again we default to the but at what cost question. We believe this to be especially true in more rural deployments. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:52 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Subchannelization should help penetration a little also. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you support PPPoE in the SM? Heard that MIMO helps tree penetration. Matt Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports about the Moto 320 so far. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal I think the new motorola is mimo. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto Networks -- the 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and 17 dbi integrated (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and 3.65 GHz with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same price. Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO? Matt --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
Exactly. Wifi mimo chips are cheap, custom fpgas and others used in wimax and propierty protocols are more expensive. Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal 802.11 and its MIMO costs are not relevant to WiMAX and its MIMO costs. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Regular MIMO doesn't have to be expensive, UBNT has proven that. More complicated forms of diversity, well, that remains to be seen. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:04 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Indeed MIMO does help through trees according to people I trust, but again we default to the but at what cost question. We believe this to be especially true in more rural deployments. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:52 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Subchannelization should help penetration a little also. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you support PPPoE in the SM? Heard that MIMO helps tree penetration. Matt Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports about the Moto 320 so far. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal I think the new motorola is mimo. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto Networks -- the 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and 17 dbi integrated (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and 3.65 GHz with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same price. Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO? Matt --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
What UBNT has shown is that one can go inexpensive alternatives and make them good products. The equivalent in WiMAX is PureWave Networks; their base station can do MIMO and beamforming and doesn't require an ASN-GW, which was the higher CAPEX for a small 802.16e deployment until they came along. Being 16e means you can have 10 MHz channels (best there is in the WiMAX world before 20 MHz 16m), MIMO, beamforming and can buy all those cheap asian CPEs instead of the vendor lock-in that happens in 16d. http://www.purewavenetworks.com Rubens On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: 802.11 and its MIMO costs are not relevant to WiMAX and its MIMO costs. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Regular MIMO doesn't have to be expensive, UBNT has proven that. More complicated forms of diversity, well, that remains to be seen. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:04 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Indeed MIMO does help through trees according to people I trust, but again we default to the but at what cost question. We believe this to be especially true in more rural deployments. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:52 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Subchannelization should help penetration a little also. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you support PPPoE in the SM? Heard that MIMO helps tree penetration. Matt Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports about the Moto 320 so far. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal I think the new motorola is mimo. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto Networks -- the 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and 17 dbi integrated (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and 3.65 GHz with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same price. Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO? Matt --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
In my limited toe-dipping into 802.16d (fixed) wimax, the biggest challenge I see is with the EMS-based control. It's just a completely different model than what we're doing with all-in-one AP's now. I don't yet completely understand how it works, but it concerns me a bit that each company has their own EMS (or whatever they choose to call it) that will not interoperate with other Wimax vendors' EMS, base station, etc. Maybe the EMS is a good way to go, so we don't have to invent so many for our current very customized networks.. Just a different way of thinking. Anyone deployed something small like a Tranzeo or small Aperto base station? On 3/17/2010 7:27 PM, Butch Evans wrote: On Wed, 2010-03-17 at 21:07 -0400, Glenn Kelley wrote: Is any one here actually sold on WiMax ? Sold on...not me. Recognize that there ARE some benefits...YES! I am not sure what this gives us over say ... a Fixed system except higher pricing for equipment and a product that does not go as far... I could be wrong - guess its time for an education anyone know the benefits of WiMax? I will leave most of the sales guys that man these lists, but there are a number of benefits to WiMAX that make it a better solution than simple polling or tdma approaches. First thing to remember is that WiMAX was designed specifically for the way we use our networks. That is, outdoor where we will see noise AND where all stations to not see each other. There were a number of issues that WiMAX addresses revolving those 2 issues specifically. Secondly, WiMAX has built in QOS on the air interface. That is HUGE. The ability to have true QOS on that part of the network where protocols that need the least latency will get it, regardless of where they fit in the polling order as it were. The details here are astonishing and worth reading if you truly have an interest in answering the question why should I be interested in WiMAX. Having pointed out just one or two of the many benefits of WiMAX, I will say that I am not completely convinced that it is the cat's meow. There are a number of networks that do not need these benefits, given the cost. I won't reopen the good enough network argument, but the fact is that for many of us (most perhaps), polling or tdma is sufficient for the networks that we run and the cost of WiMAX makes it such that the cost is greater than the value. -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ Letting off steam always produces more heat than light. - Neal A. Maxwell WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
Patrick, On all units? I actually spoke with Aperto about this issue and they said they had no plans to support it, that is good news, you should update your specifications then. I like the Aperto guys I dealt with, but part of our spec calls for MIMO/802.16e, when you get there, then we can consider it, PPPoE/NAT/DHCP Server is a great start though. Regards Michael Baird We do support PPPoE Michael. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 8:04 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal They don't support PPPoE, at least not in anything but the indoor unit which isn't available for 3.65 or 802.16D. I didn't think Aperto's gear which is 802.16d supports MIMO either, that's mostly an 802.16e spec unless they've come up with something proprietary. That's one of the reason's I'm down on Wimax, the radios are bare bones bridges for the most part, for the cost they are asking you think they could implement some niceties for fixed people, such as a robust management solution (not DHCP). Motorola is 802.16e and MIMO, as is Alvarion, WiNetworks and Airspan. Regards Michael Baird Subchannelization should help penetration a little also. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you support PPPoE in the SM? Heard that MIMO helps tree penetration. Matt Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports about the Moto 320 so far. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal I think the new motorola is mimo. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto Networks -- the 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and 17 dbi integrated (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and 3.65 GHz with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same price. Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO? Matt --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
Why would you use this in rural deployment, as opposed to something like a cheaper UBNT MIMO system, which will give you better penetration? On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:04 AM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Indeed MIMO does help through trees according to people I trust, but again we default to the but at what cost question. We believe this to be especially true in more rural deployments. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:52 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Subchannelization should help penetration a little also. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you support PPPoE in the SM? Heard that MIMO helps tree penetration. Matt Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports about the Moto 320 so far. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal I think the new motorola is mimo. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto Networks -- the 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and 17 dbi integrated (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and 3.65 GHz with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same price. Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO? Matt --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
Myth. Total Myth. There is no interoperability in 3.65 GHz that allows someone to source .16e CPE from any number of Cheap asian CPEs. That is one of the most 180 degrees wrong myths. The fact is that every vendor, regardless of the WiMAX standard, sells its own CPE precisely because the interoperability hype is total bull. What has happened is that unknowledgable people have confused the WiMAX Forum's efforts re interoperability in 2.5 GHz (limited as even that is) with it being somehow relative to other frequencies like quasi-licensed 3.65 GHz. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal What UBNT has shown is that one can go inexpensive alternatives and make them good products. The equivalent in WiMAX is PureWave Networks; their base station can do MIMO and beamforming and doesn't require an ASN-GW, which was the higher CAPEX for a small 802.16e deployment until they came along. Being 16e means you can have 10 MHz channels (best there is in the WiMAX world before 20 MHz 16m), MIMO, beamforming and can buy all those cheap asian CPEs instead of the vendor lock-in that happens in 16d. http://www.purewavenetworks.com Rubens On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: 802.11 and its MIMO costs are not relevant to WiMAX and its MIMO costs. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Regular MIMO doesn't have to be expensive, UBNT has proven that. More complicated forms of diversity, well, that remains to be seen. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:04 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Indeed MIMO does help through trees according to people I trust, but again we default to the but at what cost question. We believe this to be especially true in more rural deployments. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:52 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Subchannelization should help penetration a little also. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you support PPPoE in the SM? Heard that MIMO helps tree penetration. Matt Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports about the Moto 320 so far. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal I think the new motorola is mimo. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto Networks -- the 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and 17 dbi integrated (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and 3.65 GHz with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same price. Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO? Matt --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
Apples to oranges. If you don't care about QoS and are happy with a best effort service offering with limited ability to do things like voice and video, the .11 stuff is fine. I appreciate it fits the needs of many WISPs. Just don't make the mistake in thinking that what works for you is best for everyone. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jayson Baker Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:00 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Why would you use this in rural deployment, as opposed to something like a cheaper UBNT MIMO system, which will give you better penetration? On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:04 AM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Indeed MIMO does help through trees according to people I trust, but again we default to the but at what cost question. We believe this to be especially true in more rural deployments. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:52 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Subchannelization should help penetration a little also. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you support PPPoE in the SM? Heard that MIMO helps tree penetration. Matt Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports about the Moto 320 so far. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal I think the new motorola is mimo. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto Networks -- the 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and 17 dbi integrated (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and 3.65 GHz with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same price. Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO? Matt --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
What you call a total myth (CPE x basestation interopoerability) is something that I actually tested in the field with 3.5 GHz .16e, which is not as popular as 2.3/2.5 WiBro/Clearwire/Yota frequencies. If Aperto has such interoperability issues, please talk only for Aperto, not for the marketplace. Rubens On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Myth. Total Myth. There is no interoperability in 3.65 GHz that allows someone to source .16e CPE from any number of Cheap asian CPEs. That is one of the most 180 degrees wrong myths. The fact is that every vendor, regardless of the WiMAX standard, sells its own CPE precisely because the interoperability hype is total bull. What has happened is that unknowledgable people have confused the WiMAX Forum's efforts re interoperability in 2.5 GHz (limited as even that is) with it being somehow relative to other frequencies like quasi-licensed 3.65 GHz. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal What UBNT has shown is that one can go inexpensive alternatives and make them good products. The equivalent in WiMAX is PureWave Networks; their base station can do MIMO and beamforming and doesn't require an ASN-GW, which was the higher CAPEX for a small 802.16e deployment until they came along. Being 16e means you can have 10 MHz channels (best there is in the WiMAX world before 20 MHz 16m), MIMO, beamforming and can buy all those cheap asian CPEs instead of the vendor lock-in that happens in 16d. http://www.purewavenetworks.com Rubens On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: 802.11 and its MIMO costs are not relevant to WiMAX and its MIMO costs. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Regular MIMO doesn't have to be expensive, UBNT has proven that. More complicated forms of diversity, well, that remains to be seen. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:04 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Indeed MIMO does help through trees according to people I trust, but again we default to the but at what cost question. We believe this to be especially true in more rural deployments. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:52 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Subchannelization should help penetration a little also. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you support PPPoE in the SM? Heard that MIMO helps tree penetration. Matt Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports about the Moto 320 so far. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal I think the new motorola is mimo. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto Networks -- the 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and 17 dbi integrated (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and 3.65 GHz with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same price. Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO? Matt --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
I hope no one else does what's best for me... because that means I have competent competition. :-p jk - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:13 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Apples to oranges. If you don't care about QoS and are happy with a best effort service offering with limited ability to do things like voice and video, the .11 stuff is fine. I appreciate it fits the needs of many WISPs. Just don't make the mistake in thinking that what works for you is best for everyone. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jayson Baker Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:00 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Why would you use this in rural deployment, as opposed to something like a cheaper UBNT MIMO system, which will give you better penetration? On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:04 AM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Indeed MIMO does help through trees according to people I trust, but again we default to the but at what cost question. We believe this to be especially true in more rural deployments. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:52 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Subchannelization should help penetration a little also. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you support PPPoE in the SM? Heard that MIMO helps tree penetration. Matt Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports about the Moto 320 so far. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal I think the new motorola is mimo. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto Networks -- the 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and 17 dbi integrated (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and 3.65 GHz with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same price. Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO? Matt --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
My point stands Ruben; thanks for making it for me further. You are referring to a licensed frequency of 3.5 GHz. I am referring to quasi (really unlicensed from a practical standpoint) 3.65 GHz. I have been around the block a very long time in this business. The rude fact is that the big companies don't care about this small (from a global perspective) U.S. niche band of 3.65 GHz enough to put any money and resources into interoperability. It is not like globally accepted (U.S. not withstanding) licensed 3.5 GHz (which is still a tiny market relative to Wi-Fi) and the even smaller licensed 2.5 GHz in the U.S. (or 2.3 GHz WiBRO in South Korea). I am well compentent and authoritative enough to speak on this industry far beyond the narrow confines of my company. And as I have been doing since Dec 1999 when I first hit the lists, I will call BS and/or clarify market misunderstanding when I see it. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:38 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal What you call a total myth (CPE x basestation interopoerability) is something that I actually tested in the field with 3.5 GHz .16e, which is not as popular as 2.3/2.5 WiBro/Clearwire/Yota frequencies. If Aperto has such interoperability issues, please talk only for Aperto, not for the marketplace. Rubens On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Myth. Total Myth. There is no interoperability in 3.65 GHz that allows someone to source .16e CPE from any number of Cheap asian CPEs. That is one of the most 180 degrees wrong myths. The fact is that every vendor, regardless of the WiMAX standard, sells its own CPE precisely because the interoperability hype is total bull. What has happened is that unknowledgable people have confused the WiMAX Forum's efforts re interoperability in 2.5 GHz (limited as even that is) with it being somehow relative to other frequencies like quasi-licensed 3.65 GHz. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal What UBNT has shown is that one can go inexpensive alternatives and make them good products. The equivalent in WiMAX is PureWave Networks; their base station can do MIMO and beamforming and doesn't require an ASN-GW, which was the higher CAPEX for a small 802.16e deployment until they came along. Being 16e means you can have 10 MHz channels (best there is in the WiMAX world before 20 MHz 16m), MIMO, beamforming and can buy all those cheap asian CPEs instead of the vendor lock-in that happens in 16d. http://www.purewavenetworks.com Rubens On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: 802.11 and its MIMO costs are not relevant to WiMAX and its MIMO costs. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Regular MIMO doesn't have to be expensive, UBNT has proven that. More complicated forms of diversity, well, that remains to be seen. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:04 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Indeed MIMO does help through trees according to people I trust, but again we default to the but at what cost question. We believe this to be especially true in more rural deployments. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:52 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Subchannelization should help penetration a little also. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you support PPPoE in the SM? Heard that MIMO helps tree penetration. Matt Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports about the Moto 320 so far. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
I have to admit if MIMO is made available in the 3.65 range I'm going to use it in my city. I've been catering to my rural customers because 2.4 and 5GHZ isn't clogged out there. We already have a 3.65 license but haven't deployed it yet, I anxiously await the MIMO gear on that frequency. Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
Can someone clarify, is the Motorola 320 MIMO out of the box? Is it two (or more) antennas in the same polarity? Randy On 3/18/2010 1:23 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote: I have to admit if MIMO is made available in the 3.65 range I'm going to use it in my city. I've been catering to my rural customers because 2.4 and 5GHZ isn't clogged out there. We already have a 3.65 license but haven't deployed it yet, I anxiously await the MIMO gear on that frequency. Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ Letting off steam always produces more heat than light. - Neal A. Maxwell WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
For us WiMAX neophytes, could you explain the ASN gateway and why it's on your list of things you don't want? Randy On 3/18/2010 1:37 PM, Rubens Kuhl wrote: The same base-station company I mentioned in my previous post has done interoperability testing and certified 3.65 CPEs from asian vendors as well... http://www.purewavenetworks.com/Solutions/CPEPortfolio.aspx 3.65-3.675 GHz MTI XS-615-035M-021 P/N: 050-00365-25M 3.6-3.8 GHz GEMTEK WIXS-177 P/N: 050-00365-155 They are both based on the Sequans chipset which is a quite popular choice among asian (and some non-asian) vendors, so (besides FCC certification) most asian CPEs are very likely to work. That makes MIMO and beamforming available at 3.65 GHz, I guess. Disclaimer: I've not tested MIMO and/or beamforming at 3.65 GHz, but at 3.5 GHz the technology is a game changer. I've also not tested Purewave gear as they weren't on the market at the time of the tests, but their choice of not requiring an ASN gateway was on the wish-list I gave to all the vendors that we actually tested. Rubens On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 3:01 PM, Patrick Learyple...@apertonet.com wrote: My point stands Ruben; thanks for making it for me further. You are referring to a licensed frequency of 3.5 GHz. I am referring to quasi (really unlicensed from a practical standpoint) 3.65 GHz. I have been around the block a very long time in this business. The rude fact is that the big companies don't care about this small (from a global perspective) U.S. niche band of 3.65 GHz enough to put any money and resources into interoperability. It is not like globally accepted (U.S. not withstanding) licensed 3.5 GHz (which is still a tiny market relative to Wi-Fi) and the even smaller licensed 2.5 GHz in the U.S. (or 2.3 GHz WiBRO in South Korea). I am well compentent and authoritative enough to speak on this industry far beyond the narrow confines of my company. And as I have been doing since Dec 1999 when I first hit the lists, I will call BS and/or clarify market misunderstanding when I see it. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:38 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal What you call a total myth (CPE x basestation interopoerability) is something that I actually tested in the field with 3.5 GHz .16e, which is not as popular as 2.3/2.5 WiBro/Clearwire/Yota frequencies. If Aperto has such interoperability issues, please talk only for Aperto, not for the marketplace. Rubens On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Patrick Learyple...@apertonet.com wrote: Myth. Total Myth. There is no interoperability in 3.65 GHz that allows someone to source .16e CPE from any number of Cheap asian CPEs. That is one of the most 180 degrees wrong myths. The fact is that every vendor, regardless of the WiMAX standard, sells its own CPE precisely because the interoperability hype is total bull. What has happened is that unknowledgable people have confused the WiMAX Forum's efforts re interoperability in 2.5 GHz (limited as even that is) with it being somehow relative to other frequencies like quasi-licensed 3.65 GHz. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal What UBNT has shown is that one can go inexpensive alternatives and make them good products. The equivalent in WiMAX is PureWave Networks; their base station can do MIMO and beamforming and doesn't require an ASN-GW, which was the higher CAPEX for a small 802.16e deployment until they came along. Being 16e means you can have 10 MHz channels (best there is in the WiMAX world before 20 MHz 16m), MIMO, beamforming and can buy all those cheap asian CPEs instead of the vendor lock-in that happens in 16d. http://www.purewavenetworks.com Rubens On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Patrick Learyple...@apertonet.com wrote: 802.11 and its MIMO costs are not relevant to WiMAX and its MIMO costs. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Regular MIMO doesn't have to be expensive, UBNT has proven that. More complicated forms of diversity, well, that remains to be seen. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Patrick
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
In the Motorola 320, the AP as 2 TX and 2 RX. The SM's have 2 TX and 1 RX. It will operate at MIMO Matrix B if optimal signal can be achieved. Otherwise it operates at MIMO A. -Eric On 3/18/2010 2:39 PM, Randy Cosby wrote: Can someone clarify, is the Motorola 320 MIMO out of the box? Is it two (or more) antennas in the same polarity? Randy On 3/18/2010 1:23 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote: I have to admit if MIMO is made available in the 3.65 range I'm going to use it in my city. I've been catering to my rural customers because 2.4 and 5GHZ isn't clogged out there. We already have a 3.65 license but haven't deployed it yet, I anxiously await the MIMO gear on that frequency. Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
The ASN is good for cellular type hand-off in the 802.16e mobility profile. It's typically very expensive. Not usually required if in a fixed application. -Eric On 3/18/2010 2:41 PM, Randy Cosby wrote: For us WiMAX neophytes, could you explain the ASN gateway and why it's on your list of things you don't want? Randy On 3/18/2010 1:37 PM, Rubens Kuhl wrote: The same base-station company I mentioned in my previous post has done interoperability testing and certified 3.65 CPEs from asian vendors as well... http://www.purewavenetworks.com/Solutions/CPEPortfolio.aspx 3.65-3.675 GHz MTI XS-615-035M-021 P/N: 050-00365-25M 3.6-3.8 GHz GEMTEK WIXS-177 P/N: 050-00365-155 They are both based on the Sequans chipset which is a quite popular choice among asian (and some non-asian) vendors, so (besides FCC certification) most asian CPEs are very likely to work. That makes MIMO and beamforming available at 3.65 GHz, I guess. Disclaimer: I've not tested MIMO and/or beamforming at 3.65 GHz, but at 3.5 GHz the technology is a game changer. I've also not tested Purewave gear as they weren't on the market at the time of the tests, but their choice of not requiring an ASN gateway was on the wish-list I gave to all the vendors that we actually tested. Rubens On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 3:01 PM, Patrick Learyple...@apertonet.com wrote: My point stands Ruben; thanks for making it for me further. You are referring to a licensed frequency of 3.5 GHz. I am referring to quasi (really unlicensed from a practical standpoint) 3.65 GHz. I have been around the block a very long time in this business. The rude fact is that the big companies don't care about this small (from a global perspective) U.S. niche band of 3.65 GHz enough to put any money and resources into interoperability. It is not like globally accepted (U.S. not withstanding) licensed 3.5 GHz (which is still a tiny market relative to Wi-Fi) and the even smaller licensed 2.5 GHz in the U.S. (or 2.3 GHz WiBRO in South Korea). I am well compentent and authoritative enough to speak on this industry far beyond the narrow confines of my company. And as I have been doing since Dec 1999 when I first hit the lists, I will call BS and/or clarify market misunderstanding when I see it. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:38 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal What you call a total myth (CPE x basestation interopoerability) is something that I actually tested in the field with 3.5 GHz .16e, which is not as popular as 2.3/2.5 WiBro/Clearwire/Yota frequencies. If Aperto has such interoperability issues, please talk only for Aperto, not for the marketplace. Rubens On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Patrick Learyple...@apertonet.com wrote: Myth. Total Myth. There is no interoperability in 3.65 GHz that allows someone to source .16e CPE from any number of Cheap asian CPEs. That is one of the most 180 degrees wrong myths. The fact is that every vendor, regardless of the WiMAX standard, sells its own CPE precisely because the interoperability hype is total bull. What has happened is that unknowledgable people have confused the WiMAX Forum's efforts re interoperability in 2.5 GHz (limited as even that is) with it being somehow relative to other frequencies like quasi-licensed 3.65 GHz. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal What UBNT has shown is that one can go inexpensive alternatives and make them good products. The equivalent in WiMAX is PureWave Networks; their base station can do MIMO and beamforming and doesn't require an ASN-GW, which was the higher CAPEX for a small 802.16e deployment until they came along. Being 16e means you can have 10 MHz channels (best there is in the WiMAX world before 20 MHz 16m), MIMO, beamforming and can buy all those cheap asian CPEs instead of the vendor lock-in that happens in 16d. http://www.purewavenetworks.com Rubens On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Patrick Learyple...@apertonet.com wrote: 802.11 and its MIMO costs are not relevant to WiMAX and its MIMO costs. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Regular MIMO doesn't have to be expensive, UBNT has
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 4:41 PM, Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com wrote: For us WiMAX neophytes, could you explain the ASN gateway and why it's on your list of things you don't want? An ASN gateway sits between the Radio Access Network (where there are only tunnels from the base station to the ASN GW) and the Core Services Network, where the traffic seen is the user traffic. You can see a better explation with diagrams in: http://www.tutorialspoint.com/wimax/wimax_network_model.htm ASN gateways are usually expensive, as are the BSC (Base Station Controllers) that have a similar role in cellular networks. What Pure Wave is doing is something that was once know as Profile B where the base station could work without an ASN gateway. Navini gear before Cisco also worked like this, which is very similar to what an Wi-Fi Access-Point usually does. In larger networks ASN gateways are essential to scaling the network and the ones I've tested were pretty good. I just don't want to pay the price of them. Rubens WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
Sm has 2 rx 1 tx Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Mar 18, 2010, at 3:55 PM, Eric Muehleisen ericm...@gmail.com wrote: In the Motorola 320, the AP as 2 TX and 2 RX. The SM's have 2 TX and 1 RX. It will operate at MIMO Matrix B if optimal signal can be achieved. Otherwise it operates at MIMO A. -Eric On 3/18/2010 2:39 PM, Randy Cosby wrote: Can someone clarify, is the Motorola 320 MIMO out of the box? Is it two (or more) antennas in the same polarity? Randy On 3/18/2010 1:23 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote: I have to admit if MIMO is made available in the 3.65 range I'm going to use it in my city. I've been catering to my rural customers because 2.4 and 5GHZ isn't clogged out there. We already have a 3.65 license but haven't deployed it yet, I anxiously await the MIMO gear on that frequency. Forbes --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
Thanks. Now, on the Motorola 320, for example, the ASN gateway is not part of the picture, correct? On 3/18/2010 1:59 PM, Rubens Kuhl wrote: On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 4:41 PM, Randy Cosbydco...@infowest.com wrote: For us WiMAX neophytes, could you explain the ASN gateway and why it's on your list of things you don't want? An ASN gateway sits between the Radio Access Network (where there are only tunnels from the base station to the ASN GW) and the Core Services Network, where the traffic seen is the user traffic. You can see a better explation with diagrams in: http://www.tutorialspoint.com/wimax/wimax_network_model.htm ASN gateways are usually expensive, as are the BSC (Base Station Controllers) that have a similar role in cellular networks. What Pure Wave is doing is something that was once know as Profile B where the base station could work without an ASN gateway. Navini gear before Cisco also worked like this, which is very similar to what an Wi-Fi Access-Point usually does. In larger networks ASN gateways are essential to scaling the network and the ones I've tested were pretty good. I just don't want to pay the price of them. Rubens WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ Letting off steam always produces more heat than light. - Neal A. Maxwell WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
You are correct. Thanks for the clarification. -Eric On 3/18/2010 2:58 PM, Gino Villarini wrote: Sm has 2 rx 1 tx Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Mar 18, 2010, at 3:55 PM, Eric Muehleisenericm...@gmail.com wrote: In the Motorola 320, the AP as 2 TX and 2 RX. The SM's have 2 TX and 1 RX. It will operate at MIMO Matrix B if optimal signal can be achieved. Otherwise it operates at MIMO A. -Eric On 3/18/2010 2:39 PM, Randy Cosby wrote: Can someone clarify, is the Motorola 320 MIMO out of the box? Is it two (or more) antennas in the same polarity? Randy On 3/18/2010 1:23 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote: I have to admit if MIMO is made available in the 3.65 range I'm going to use it in my city. I've been catering to my rural customers because 2.4 and 5GHZ isn't clogged out there. We already have a 3.65 license but haven't deployed it yet, I anxiously await the MIMO gear on that frequency. Forbes --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
Correct. No ASN. Service flows and classifications are set directly in the AP. Radius is built into the SM. It's fully L3 routeable. Currently no L2 functionality. -Eric On 3/18/2010 3:11 PM, Randy Cosby wrote: Thanks. Now, on the Motorola 320, for example, the ASN gateway is not part of the picture, correct? On 3/18/2010 1:59 PM, Rubens Kuhl wrote: On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 4:41 PM, Randy Cosbydco...@infowest.com wrote: For us WiMAX neophytes, could you explain the ASN gateway and why it's on your list of things you don't want? An ASN gateway sits between the Radio Access Network (where there are only tunnels from the base station to the ASN GW) and the Core Services Network, where the traffic seen is the user traffic. You can see a better explation with diagrams in: http://www.tutorialspoint.com/wimax/wimax_network_model.htm ASN gateways are usually expensive, as are the BSC (Base Station Controllers) that have a similar role in cellular networks. What Pure Wave is doing is something that was once know as Profile B where the base station could work without an ASN gateway. Navini gear before Cisco also worked like this, which is very similar to what an Wi-Fi Access-Point usually does. In larger networks ASN gateways are essential to scaling the network and the ones I've tested were pretty good. I just don't want to pay the price of them. Rubens WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com wrote: Thanks. Now, on the Motorola 320, for example, the ASN gateway is not part of the picture, correct? According ot its specs, no ASN gateway is required: Low Cost Infrastructure The CAP 320 does not require ASN gateways or specialized CSN servers. The system efficiently runs over a wireless backhaul by performing local peer-to-peer routing at the base station. http://www.motorola.com/staticfiles/Business/Products/Wireless%20Networks/Wireless%20Broadband%20Networks/Point%20to%20Multi-point%20Networks/Canopy%20Products/PMP_320_Series/WB_CAP%20320_Specification%20Sheet.pdf?localeId=33 The Motorola 16e APs I've tested required an ASN gateway but they indeed mentioned they were working on not having it as a requirement. It's probably good though that a base station could be configured to use an ASN gateway, flexibility is never too much (unless it increases pricing... :-). Rubens WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
FYI: Pat does know this industry inside out. In my book, he has earned the right to toot his horn. I'm certain others in the industry will vouch for him as well. Many have come gone on this list so we're fortunate to have him still around. I've been on the list since '04 and have learned a lot from his posts and from others here. Stick with the facts and we'll all learn a thing or two. I'm still on two :) -RickG On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 2:01 PM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: My point stands Ruben; thanks for making it for me further. You are referring to a licensed frequency of 3.5 GHz. I am referring to quasi (really unlicensed from a practical standpoint) 3.65 GHz. I have been around the block a very long time in this business. The rude fact is that the big companies don't care about this small (from a global perspective) U.S. niche band of 3.65 GHz enough to put any money and resources into interoperability. It is not like globally accepted (U.S. not withstanding) licensed 3.5 GHz (which is still a tiny market relative to Wi-Fi) and the even smaller licensed 2.5 GHz in the U.S. (or 2.3 GHz WiBRO in South Korea). I am well compentent and authoritative enough to speak on this industry far beyond the narrow confines of my company. And as I have been doing since Dec 1999 when I first hit the lists, I will call BS and/or clarify market misunderstanding when I see it. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:38 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal What you call a total myth (CPE x basestation interopoerability) is something that I actually tested in the field with 3.5 GHz .16e, which is not as popular as 2.3/2.5 WiBro/Clearwire/Yota frequencies. If Aperto has such interoperability issues, please talk only for Aperto, not for the marketplace. Rubens On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Myth. Total Myth. There is no interoperability in 3.65 GHz that allows someone to source .16e CPE from any number of Cheap asian CPEs. That is one of the most 180 degrees wrong myths. The fact is that every vendor, regardless of the WiMAX standard, sells its own CPE precisely because the interoperability hype is total bull. What has happened is that unknowledgable people have confused the WiMAX Forum's efforts re interoperability in 2.5 GHz (limited as even that is) with it being somehow relative to other frequencies like quasi-licensed 3.65 GHz. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal What UBNT has shown is that one can go inexpensive alternatives and make them good products. The equivalent in WiMAX is PureWave Networks; their base station can do MIMO and beamforming and doesn't require an ASN-GW, which was the higher CAPEX for a small 802.16e deployment until they came along. Being 16e means you can have 10 MHz channels (best there is in the WiMAX world before 20 MHz 16m), MIMO, beamforming and can buy all those cheap asian CPEs instead of the vendor lock-in that happens in 16d. http://www.purewavenetworks.com Rubens On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: 802.11 and its MIMO costs are not relevant to WiMAX and its MIMO costs. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Regular MIMO doesn't have to be expensive, UBNT has proven that. More complicated forms of diversity, well, that remains to be seen. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:04 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Indeed MIMO does help through trees according to people I trust, but again we default to the but at what cost question. We believe this to be especially true in more rural deployments. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:52 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Subchannelization should help penetration a little also. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43
[WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
I think I saw an ad here for Aperto or AirSpan or some other vendor who had 3.65 GHz gear with $200 SMs for life if you bought a particular package. If the company who sent that could re-send it to me off-list, or if it was on another list and someone here knows what I am talking about and can send me the e-mail, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks, Dave == MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION David Sovereen 989-837-3790 x 151 http://www.mercury.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
Here is what I got Hi folks, We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto Networks -- the 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and 17 dbi integrated (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and 3.65 GHz with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same price. Because you'll also need base stations to connect to, we are also offering full sector kits that support over 250 CPE per sector for these bands for $5000, including PM3000 1U base station, respective frequency base station radio (BSR), full sector and EMS license, antenna cable, sync cable and sector antenna of your choice (60, 60 or 120 degree, or omni). To qualify for this base station pricing, a minimum of 10 CPE must be included per base station. There are no hidden items; these all-in-one full sector kits. This promotion runs from this week to April 15, but because we know you need firm pricing for CAPEX planning, we will extend a price guarantee at these prices to any WISP who buys at least 5 sector kits by April 15. What does this get you? -One low price and you tailor your package to fit your need. oAll-in-one 3.65 or 5.8 GHz carrier class WiMAX sector (excludes 75 ohm LMR 400). oReduce your CAPEX permanently. Reduce your OPEX dramatically compared to Wi-Fi. oWiMAX at near Wi-Fi pricing with price protection with purchase of 5 or more sectors. oYou choose any combination of N type or various integrated antenna CPE options. oYou choose 60, 90, 120 degree sector options - or even an omni. oLowest total cost of ownership solution that can support over 250 CPE/sector (really). oUSDA RUS Accepted, globally-proven and built by 802.16 and WiMAX pioneer Aperto. oMonitor and manage thousands of CPE with included WaveCenter EMS and all licenses (server not included). -Technically advanced. Field proven. Feature rich, yet easy to deploy. oBuilt-in sync with cascaded local sectors; 7 MHz channels minimizes noise exposure. o20 mbps/sector net, even with full QoS and WiMAX service flows implemented. oSupports scaled toll quality voice concurrent with data and/or video. oConfigurable symmetric or asymmetry up to 70:30 in either direction. oAuto set forget or manual provisioning; Internet-based CPE management. oAutomatic dynamic power control, ARQ, VLANs, certificate-based encryption. oBuilt-in frequency spectrum analyzer. To order, contact your representative at any of the following authorized Aperto Networks value-added distributor: 3-db Networks (Colorado)303.376.6828sa...@3-db.net Crossover Distribution (Ontario)866.616.5111 sa...@crossoverdistribution.com Double Radius (North Carolina)866.891.3602sa...@doubleradius.com Wireless Connections (Ohio)419.660.6100 sa...@wirelessconnections.net For other questions, feel free to contact me directly at ple...@apertonet.com. We hope this is a stimulus plan you'll find attractive! Sincerely, Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile ple...@apertonet.com www.apertonet.com Sent from my iPhone On Mar 17, 2010, at 6:16 PM, David Sovereen david.sover...@mercury.net wrote: I think I saw an ad here for Aperto or AirSpan or some other vendor who had 3.65 GHz gear with $200 SMs for life if you bought a particular package. If the company who sent that could re-send it to me off- list, or if it was on another list and someone here knows what I am talking about and can send me the e-mail, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks, Dave == MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION David Sovereen 989-837-3790 x 151 http://www.mercury.net --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
Is any one here actually sold on WiMax ? I am not sure what this gives us over say ... a Fixed system except higher pricing for equipment and a product that does not go as far... I could be wrong - guess its time for an education anyone know the benefits of WiMax? What I really want are non wimax on the 3.65 side On Mar 17, 2010, at 7:19 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote: Here is what I got Hi folks, We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto Networks -- the 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and 17 dbi integrated (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and 3.65 GHz with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same price. Because you'll also need base stations to connect to, we are also offering full sector kits that support over 250 CPE per sector for these bands for $5000, including PM3000 1U base station, respective frequency base station radio (BSR), full sector and EMS license, antenna cable, sync cable and sector antenna of your choice (60, 60 or 120 degree, or omni). To qualify for this base station pricing, a minimum of 10 CPE must be included per base station. There are no hidden items; these all-in-one full sector kits. This promotion runs from this week to April 15, but because we know you need firm pricing for CAPEX planning, we will extend a price guarantee at these prices to any WISP who buys at least 5 sector kits by April 15. What does this get you? -One low price and you tailor your package to fit your need. oAll-in-one 3.65 or 5.8 GHz carrier class WiMAX sector (excludes 75 ohm LMR 400). oReduce your CAPEX permanently. Reduce your OPEX dramatically compared to Wi-Fi. oWiMAX at near Wi-Fi pricing with price protection with purchase of 5 or more sectors. oYou choose any combination of N type or various integrated antenna CPE options. oYou choose 60, 90, 120 degree sector options - or even an omni. oLowest total cost of ownership solution that can support over 250 CPE/sector (really). oUSDA RUS Accepted, globally-proven and built by 802.16 and WiMAX pioneer Aperto. oMonitor and manage thousands of CPE with included WaveCenter EMS and all licenses (server not included). -Technically advanced. Field proven. Feature rich, yet easy to deploy. oBuilt-in sync with cascaded local sectors; 7 MHz channels minimizes noise exposure. o20 mbps/sector net, even with full QoS and WiMAX service flows implemented. oSupports scaled toll quality voice concurrent with data and/or video. oConfigurable symmetric or asymmetry up to 70:30 in either direction. oAuto set forget or manual provisioning; Internet-based CPE management. oAutomatic dynamic power control, ARQ, VLANs, certificate-based encryption. oBuilt-in frequency spectrum analyzer. To order, contact your representative at any of the following authorized Aperto Networks value-added distributor: 3-db Networks (Colorado)303.376.6828sa...@3-db.net Crossover Distribution (Ontario)866.616.5111 sa...@crossoverdistribution.com Double Radius (North Carolina)866.891.3602sa...@doubleradius.com Wireless Connections (Ohio)419.660.6100 sa...@wirelessconnections.net For other questions, feel free to contact me directly at ple...@apertonet.com. We hope this is a stimulus plan you'll find attractive! Sincerely, Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile ple...@apertonet.com www.apertonet.com Sent from my iPhone On Mar 17, 2010, at 6:16 PM, David Sovereen david.sover...@mercury.net wrote: I think I saw an ad here for Aperto or AirSpan or some other vendor who had 3.65 GHz gear with $200 SMs for life if you bought a particular package. If the company who sent that could re-send it to me off- list, or if it was on another list and someone here knows what I am talking about and can send me the e-mail, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks, Dave = = MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION David Sovereen 989-837-3790 x 151 http://www.mercury.net --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
The soft licensing ensures that anyone randomly throwing AP's in the air without registering will be subject to enforcement by the FCC. With every AP registered, you will be able to contact other 3.65 operators for co-ordination. No guarantees they will co-operate but at least you know who to egg on New Years Jerry -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Kelley Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 6:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal Is any one here actually sold on WiMax ? I am not sure what this gives us over say ... a Fixed system except higher pricing for equipment and a product that does not go as far... I could be wrong - guess its time for an education anyone know the benefits of WiMax? What I really want are non wimax on the 3.65 side On Mar 17, 2010, at 7:19 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote: Here is what I got Hi folks, We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto Networks -- the 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and 17 dbi integrated (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and 3.65 GHz with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same price. Because you'll also need base stations to connect to, we are also offering full sector kits that support over 250 CPE per sector for these bands for $5000, including PM3000 1U base station, respective frequency base station radio (BSR), full sector and EMS license, antenna cable, sync cable and sector antenna of your choice (60, 60 or 120 degree, or omni). To qualify for this base station pricing, a minimum of 10 CPE must be included per base station. There are no hidden items; these all-in-one full sector kits. This promotion runs from this week to April 15, but because we know you need firm pricing for CAPEX planning, we will extend a price guarantee at these prices to any WISP who buys at least 5 sector kits by April 15. What does this get you? -One low price and you tailor your package to fit your need. oAll-in-one 3.65 or 5.8 GHz carrier class WiMAX sector (excludes 75 ohm LMR 400). oReduce your CAPEX permanently. Reduce your OPEX dramatically compared to Wi-Fi. oWiMAX at near Wi-Fi pricing with price protection with purchase of 5 or more sectors. oYou choose any combination of N type or various integrated antenna CPE options. oYou choose 60, 90, 120 degree sector options - or even an omni. oLowest total cost of ownership solution that can support over 250 CPE/sector (really). oUSDA RUS Accepted, globally-proven and built by 802.16 and WiMAX pioneer Aperto. oMonitor and manage thousands of CPE with included WaveCenter EMS and all licenses (server not included). -Technically advanced. Field proven. Feature rich, yet easy to deploy. oBuilt-in sync with cascaded local sectors; 7 MHz channels minimizes noise exposure. o20 mbps/sector net, even with full QoS and WiMAX service flows implemented. oSupports scaled toll quality voice concurrent with data and/or video. oConfigurable symmetric or asymmetry up to 70:30 in either direction. oAuto set forget or manual provisioning; Internet-based CPE management. oAutomatic dynamic power control, ARQ, VLANs, certificate-based encryption. oBuilt-in frequency spectrum analyzer. To order, contact your representative at any of the following authorized Aperto Networks value-added distributor: 3-db Networks (Colorado)303.376.6828sa...@3-db.net Crossover Distribution (Ontario)866.616.5111 sa...@crossoverdistribution.com Double Radius (North Carolina)866.891.3602sa...@doubleradius.com Wireless Connections (Ohio)419.660.6100 sa...@wirelessconnections.net For other questions, feel free to contact me directly at ple...@apertonet.com. We hope this is a stimulus plan you'll find attractive! Sincerely, Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile ple...@apertonet.com www.apertonet.com Sent from my iPhone On Mar 17, 2010, at 6:16 PM, David Sovereen david.sover...@mercury.net wrote: I think I saw an ad here for Aperto or AirSpan or some other vendor who had 3.65 GHz gear with $200 SMs for life if you bought a particular package. If the company who sent that could re-send it to me off- list, or if it was on another list and someone here knows what I am talking about and can send me the e-mail, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks, Dave
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
On Wed, 2010-03-17 at 21:07 -0400, Glenn Kelley wrote: Is any one here actually sold on WiMax ? Sold on...not me. Recognize that there ARE some benefits...YES! I am not sure what this gives us over say ... a Fixed system except higher pricing for equipment and a product that does not go as far... I could be wrong - guess its time for an education anyone know the benefits of WiMax? I will leave most of the sales guys that man these lists, but there are a number of benefits to WiMAX that make it a better solution than simple polling or tdma approaches. First thing to remember is that WiMAX was designed specifically for the way we use our networks. That is, outdoor where we will see noise AND where all stations to not see each other. There were a number of issues that WiMAX addresses revolving those 2 issues specifically. Secondly, WiMAX has built in QOS on the air interface. That is HUGE. The ability to have true QOS on that part of the network where protocols that need the least latency will get it, regardless of where they fit in the polling order as it were. The details here are astonishing and worth reading if you truly have an interest in answering the question why should I be interested in WiMAX. Having pointed out just one or two of the many benefits of WiMAX, I will say that I am not completely convinced that it is the cat's meow. There are a number of networks that do not need these benefits, given the cost. I won't reopen the good enough network argument, but the fact is that for many of us (most perhaps), polling or tdma is sufficient for the networks that we run and the cost of WiMAX makes it such that the cost is greater than the value. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
well put kinda where we are - it makes sense perhaps in some places just not convinced ours is one of them ... yet ... :-) On Mar 17, 2010, at 9:27 PM, Butch Evans wrote: On Wed, 2010-03-17 at 21:07 -0400, Glenn Kelley wrote: Is any one here actually sold on WiMax ? Sold on...not me. Recognize that there ARE some benefits...YES! I am not sure what this gives us over say ... a Fixed system except higher pricing for equipment and a product that does not go as far... I could be wrong - guess its time for an education anyone know the benefits of WiMax? I will leave most of the sales guys that man these lists, but there are a number of benefits to WiMAX that make it a better solution than simple polling or tdma approaches. First thing to remember is that WiMAX was designed specifically for the way we use our networks. That is, outdoor where we will see noise AND where all stations to not see each other. There were a number of issues that WiMAX addresses revolving those 2 issues specifically. Secondly, WiMAX has built in QOS on the air interface. That is HUGE. The ability to have true QOS on that part of the network where protocols that need the least latency will get it, regardless of where they fit in the polling order as it were. The details here are astonishing and worth reading if you truly have an interest in answering the question why should I be interested in WiMAX. Having pointed out just one or two of the many benefits of WiMAX, I will say that I am not completely convinced that it is the cat's meow. There are a number of networks that do not need these benefits, given the cost. I won't reopen the good enough network argument, but the fact is that for many of us (most perhaps), polling or tdma is sufficient for the networks that we run and the cost of WiMAX makes it such that the cost is greater than the value. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
anyone know the benefits of WiMax? I will leave most of the sales guys that man these lists, but there are a number of benefits to WiMAX that make it a better solution than simple polling or tdma approaches. After working some years in a WiMAX operator I couldn't agree more with Butch. The technology is incredibly good for outdoor networks. But besides better pricing (CPE, BS, spectrum), one thing I missed from current WiMAX technology was large channel size. Fixed WiMAX is usually available with 3.5 or 7 MHz channels; mobile WiMAX with 5 or 10 MHz channels. Wi-Fi already had non-standard 40 MHz with Turbo A/G and now has 40 MHz standard with 802.11n. With a small channel, even a high goodput/Hz couldn't go very far coping with increasing demands and we ended up installing unlicensed spectrum radios. My current mindset is that WiMAX is good for every application besides Internet access for computers. Surveillance, telephony and Internet access for mobile devices (including public safety and first responders) are all applications that WiMAX would edge out any other technology available on the market, as of Q1CY2010. 4G WiMAX (802.16m) might change that, I don't know. Will wait and see. Rubens WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
I have a small wimax deployment with 20 subs and 130 phone lines and I wouldn't change a thing. All business customers with very high quality voip. I section all the voip traffic out with ugs and leave the Internet as best effort to guarantee service levels. All my subs can easily get 5-6 megs upload which is far better than dsl or cable. And the best part is you set it and it is the same every day. All units keep the highest modulation (qam 64 3/4). If you do have one unit that has a week signal it really has no effect on the overall system. There are many other benefits but that is a few off the top of my head. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 17, 2010, at 9:22 PM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: anyone know the benefits of WiMax? I will leave most of the sales guys that man these lists, but there are a number of benefits to WiMAX that make it a better solution than simple polling or tdma approaches. After working some years in a WiMAX operator I couldn't agree more with Butch. The technology is incredibly good for outdoor networks. But besides better pricing (CPE, BS, spectrum), one thing I missed from current WiMAX technology was large channel size. Fixed WiMAX is usually available with 3.5 or 7 MHz channels; mobile WiMAX with 5 or 10 MHz channels. Wi-Fi already had non-standard 40 MHz with Turbo A/G and now has 40 MHz standard with 802.11n. With a small channel, even a high goodput/Hz couldn't go very far coping with increasing demands and we ended up installing unlicensed spectrum radios. My current mindset is that WiMAX is good for every application besides Internet access for computers. Surveillance, telephony and Internet access for mobile devices (including public safety and first responders) are all applications that WiMAX would edge out any other technology available on the market, as of Q1CY2010. 4G WiMAX (802.16m) might change that, I don't know. Will wait and see. Rubens --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
