Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent
I will also add... With the exception of one of Matt's earliest comments in this thread, some thing similar to "Cogent is Poor Quality", I agree with just about everything that he said. (He uses Cogent more than he admits, but he's one of the guys that know when and where to use and not to use them.) I will even admit, that I just recently made the move to have Matt do Transit for a large segment of our network. (1 of 2 providers) I made that decission because, after much debate with him privately, I've come to realize he's is probably the smartest person that I know on the deep topics of BGP Peering and transit, and I'm confident that his network will perform for us, as we need it to, to compliment our Cogent offering. I will share why Cogent enabled us to be successful, and why we see Cogent limiting us from being successful. Cogent was an Excellent place for us to start out. They saved us loads of money, becaues we could get the performance of being in a major carrier hotel, but not actually have to be in the major carrier hotel, avoiding those costly carrier hotel fees. They also had a PtMP fiber solution that allowed a provider using lower bandwdith at their remote regions to share capacity of a 100Mbps head end. I've never second guessed my decssion to use Cogent, and I'd argue that that decession was one of the best decission that I had made, leading to our competitive advantage. But times change, as we grow This year we identified three flaws with Cogents model 1) They are very rigid on everything being 100mbps increments. This would translate to much higher bandwdith costs, as we upgraded our network to speeds higher than 100mbps. We are installing many 300mbps and GB links, although the average capacity is rarely low still. The jump to 200mbps is to limiting compared to burstable GB, and makes the transit to expensive when you are pushing only 110mbps and paying for 200mb. This becomes more of an issue when the intent is to have two transit connection providing greater than 200mbps, when the average use is low. 2) Everywhere we wanted to use different technical designs (Layer2, Bursting) they were unable to acommodate us at the locations where we needed it accommodated. Meaning they did not offer all the services remotely that they offered in a carrier hotel. 3) We no longer needed cogent's PtMP benefits locally, because we could already do it better and faster wirelessly, (Cogent Rings tend to funnel all traffic to one point before re-routing, adding more points of possoble failures apposed to direct wireless shots to where we wanted to go) So our reasons, for migrating services off of Cogent were not performance, they were stategic to find offerings that better matched our Wireless value proposition, and that would allow us to save money, offering an overall grander solution. I believe anyone doing route optimization, and not having Cogent as one of their provider, is undersighted. Because our experience has shown that Cogent has had some of teh BEST performance backhauling data across the country. But that doesn't mean that when they connect to other parties, those parties have the best paths to the customer from that point. (all sorts of Net Netrality issues involved). Where things change is when one evolves to the stage where peering is necessary to support one's client base adequately. Once you ahve a reason to be in the Carrier Hotel, there are unlimited options, and many choices of near equivellent value. When one starts out in peering, they tend to spread traffic out and no longer need as large of pipes per provider, at least not for a while. The advantage of being a small provider is that you are under the radar of teh big boys, and can make more specific routing decssions, apposed to goliaths like Cogent that have to make broad routing decissions, and constantly fighting with the other Big Boys. The one thing I ahve learned in this industry, without second guess is never pay one penny more for something, longer than you have to, beyond a period where you receive value for having paid for those services. Pay for it when you need it. In the early stages, it made sense to simplify life, and have a company like Cogent manage our IPs, and our Transit/BGP, they did it better, when we were to small to justify the time and effort required to manage it. But once one grows past that point, one develops the flexibilty and scale to justify using each provider for the application that they are best capable to deliver. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 11:22 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent Tom DeReggi wrote: Cogent's per
RE: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent
Hello Jory - Matt, Thank you for the kind words Jory and the referral Matt. I'm only interjecting here just to clarify that nearly every opportunity presented to BelWave has to be evaluated on a case by case basis. In this particular case there were several criteria that dictated the price per MB. Certainly we can offer better per MB pricing, but that comes with different terms. With the constraints we had to work with I am extremely confident there is not a better deal available that will offer a comparable level of service. Obviously I can't go into the details, but we're confident we met every requirement requested for the opportunity to earn the business. More importantly the continued business and ongoing relationship beyond this short term deal. We appreciate the opportunity and look forward to working with WCCS. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jory Privett Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 1:59 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent Yes Belwave is there and they come highly recommended. I have talked with them and they seem like good people. I will sign a contract with them this week I hope. I was just wanting to find a better price per meg but it does not look like it will happen. Jory Privett WCCS - Original Message - From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 1:31 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent > Jory Privett wrote: >> If you sell a national backbone what do you have in North Texas? I >> need bandwidth desperately and cant find anything less than about >> $250/Meg. >> > I know you meant to send this offlist and ultimately, you did, but I > figured I would respond onlist in case others have a similar. In fact, > this whole thread started with the concept that you shouldn't have to > pay $250/meg. > > First of all, we are only built out in major cities, so we don't have a > network near you. However, cheaper bandwidth shouldn't be too far away. > I know there are plenty of wireless companies operating in the > Dallas/Fort Worth area and it looks like you are about 40 miles outside > of Fort Worth. Have you talked to another wireless company about > bandwidth? I believe BelWave is in Fort Worth and their network may > include parts of North West Fort Worth making the shot even less than 40 > miles. > > I happened to ask offlist for some information on the closest tower Jory > has to Fort Worth. Using that information I came up with the attached > backhaul figured using 5800Mhz. The other side of the shot is the D.R. > Horton Tower, which I would think cheaper bandwidth would be available. > It would also appear that plenty of other buildings should be accessible. > > -Matt > > > > ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at > ISPCON ** > ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** > ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** > ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** > ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at > http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 a
Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent
Tom DeReggi wrote: Cogent's performance is great 95% of the time. Regardless of what anyone says, when ever we see congestion problems, which does happen occasionally, the congestion usually happens several hops after leaving Cogent's network. I'd call this a problem with the other provider. It a complicated game, stategizing who's network will carries the majority burden and cost to backhaul the traffic the majority path. All I can say is, when Cogent carries the data the majority path, the performance/latency is better. We've had Cogent for 7 years and thats why we've kept them. Many providers meet their price, They are not just the lowest cost option anymore. Cogent tech support is also very good. I think it is important to point out that Tom is connected to Cogent in DC, which is the one place in the entire world where Cogent is fully peered. The performance of Cogent in other cities will never be as good as it is in DC until the Cogent peering situation changes. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent
Cogent's performance is great 95% of the time. Regardless of what anyone says, when ever we see congestion problems, which does happen occasionally, the congestion usually happens several hops after leaving Cogent's network. I'd call this a problem with the other provider. It a complicated game, stategizing who's network will carries the majority burden and cost to backhaul the traffic the majority path. All I can say is, when Cogent carries the data the majority path, the performance/latency is better. We've had Cogent for 7 years and thats why we've kept them. Many providers meet their price, They are not just the lowest cost option anymore. Cogent tech support is also very good. My concern with Cogent, is they can't keep Sales reps anymore. The first 5 years, I enjoyed having dedicated sales reps that I could count on being there to address my concerns, when they needed addressed. Someone that knew me and my character, and knew I was not full of shxt if I had a beef. I like that feeling of relationship. Thats been gone the last 2 years. There is nothing I hate worse than a company that thinks its exceptable for the collections/accounting department to be the primary/only interface between the provider and the customer. That is because in that situation, the provder can often come to false conclusions on topics, when they are not aware of all the facts and history. IF they can't keep a sales rep for more than a few months, something has got to be wrong, that we do not know about. With all fairness, the trend that is developing, is typical of many telecoms as they grow large, get comfortable with the market share they desire, and don't think they need the high salary reps anymore. I would only make positive recommendations for someone to use Cogent. But in today's world, I've come to realize that it is not safe for an ISP to use any ONE transit provider. Those days are over. The ISP is to vulnerable to the MANY MANY things that can go wrong and disputes that can develop. My recommendation is to choose what ever option will allow them to have atleast Two providers. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Mike Hammett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 7:39 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent I don't have them, but I'm saying what I hear. Everything on their network is great. Sometimes there's issues with their peering locations. Everyone has them, but Cogent seems to have more. That's because they're the red-headed stepchild of the carrier world. None of the carriers really like them, but they have to because they have such a presense. I would only use Cogent in a BGP mix. I wo uld also use them for P2P traffic. There's no point in using your more expensive upstreams for a best-effort service. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Matt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent Is anyone using Cogent as a bandwidth provider? Pros and cons? Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/list
Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent
Yes Belwave is there and they come highly recommended. I have talked with them and they seem like good people. I will sign a contract with them this week I hope. I was just wanting to find a better price per meg but it does not look like it will happen. Jory Privett WCCS - Original Message - From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 1:31 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent Jory Privett wrote: If you sell a national backbone what do you have in North Texas? I need bandwidth desperately and cant find anything less than about $250/Meg. I know you meant to send this offlist and ultimately, you did, but I figured I would respond onlist in case others have a similar. In fact, this whole thread started with the concept that you shouldn't have to pay $250/meg. First of all, we are only built out in major cities, so we don't have a network near you. However, cheaper bandwidth shouldn't be too far away. I know there are plenty of wireless companies operating in the Dallas/Fort Worth area and it looks like you are about 40 miles outside of Fort Worth. Have you talked to another wireless company about bandwidth? I believe BelWave is in Fort Worth and their network may include parts of North West Fort Worth making the shot even less than 40 miles. I happened to ask offlist for some information on the closest tower Jory has to Fort Worth. Using that information I came up with the attached backhaul figured using 5800Mhz. The other side of the shot is the D.R. Horton Tower, which I would think cheaper bandwidth would be available. It would also appear that plenty of other buildings should be accessible. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent
Jory Privett wrote: If you sell a national backbone what do you have in North Texas? I need bandwidth desperately and cant find anything less than about $250/Meg. I know you meant to send this offlist and ultimately, you did, but I figured I would respond onlist in case others have a similar. In fact, this whole thread started with the concept that you shouldn't have to pay $250/meg. First of all, we are only built out in major cities, so we don't have a network near you. However, cheaper bandwidth shouldn't be too far away. I know there are plenty of wireless companies operating in the Dallas/Fort Worth area and it looks like you are about 40 miles outside of Fort Worth. Have you talked to another wireless company about bandwidth? I believe BelWave is in Fort Worth and their network may include parts of North West Fort Worth making the shot even less than 40 miles. I happened to ask offlist for some information on the closest tower Jory has to Fort Worth. Using that information I came up with the attached backhaul figured using 5800Mhz. The other side of the shot is the D.R. Horton Tower, which I would think cheaper bandwidth would be available. It would also appear that plenty of other buildings should be accessible. -Matt <> ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent
Good post, Matt. Usually if one's not for Cogent, they have nothing good to say about them. You were fair, however. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent George Rogato wrote: I'm very serious. I've read it over and over again on the various list from those who resell other bandwidth bashing cogent. Understood, but we don't resell other bandwidth; we sell our own. We are not a tier 1, but we do operate a national backbone and believe there are reasons to chose us over the competition as I outlined in a previous email. It's a stratergy, if you sell high, bash the low. makes sense. It does make sense, but where there is smoke there is fire. Cogent is a good company and is good at what they do. There is nothing wrong with their network from a technical sense. They have no pricing flexibility, which I explained in a previous email, which can be both good and bad depending on the situation. See http://www.renesys.com/blog/2007/08/cogents_secret_weapon.shtml for a positive spin on that. Really, Cogent's performance problems are more political than technical, but they exist nevertheless. We have a unique view into Cogent's network in that we buy a significant amount of services from them, we wirelessly connect some of their customers to their network, we see their global internet performance as any other NSP would that is interconnected in multiple cities, and we participate on the NANOG and outages mailing lists. All of this allows us to see their problems, which they have on a regular basis. Most of their problems are peering related, which is not their fault, but it is their problem. For example, Cogent hardly peers at all on the east coast except in DC, NYC, and Miami. See http://cogentco.com/htdocs/peering.php. That means here in Atlanta getting to and from Cogent's network and other's means a trip through DC. This is the case throughout the country and it means that Cogent inherently has poorer performance than other similar size networks. Understand this, Cogent is one of the largest networks in the world, but its interconnection with the other top 10 networks is poor. Our little company has more peering with major networks than Cogent in Atlanta. Again, you can buy better bandwidth than Cogent for less than Cogent. Cogent is no longer the low priced leader. We just need people to think they are, so others continue to drop their price and aggressively peer in a fight to beat Cogent. Cogent is the company to beat from a sales perspective as they are probably the best executed. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent
Sorry was supposed to be off-list Doh... Jory - Original Message - From: "Jory Privett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 11:44 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent If you sell a national backbone what do you have in North Texas? I need bandwidth desperately and cant find anything less than about $250/Meg. Jory Privett WCCS - Original Message - From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent George Rogato wrote: I'm very serious. I've read it over and over again on the various list from those who resell other bandwidth bashing cogent. Understood, but we don't resell other bandwidth; we sell our own. We are not a tier 1, but we do operate a national backbone and believe there are reasons to chose us over the competition as I outlined in a previous email. It's a stratergy, if you sell high, bash the low. makes sense. It does make sense, but where there is smoke there is fire. Cogent is a good company and is good at what they do. There is nothing wrong with their network from a technical sense. They have no pricing flexibility, which I explained in a previous email, which can be both good and bad depending on the situation. See http://www.renesys.com/blog/2007/08/cogents_secret_weapon.shtml for a positive spin on that. Really, Cogent's performance problems are more political than technical, but they exist nevertheless. We have a unique view into Cogent's network in that we buy a significant amount of services from them, we wirelessly connect some of their customers to their network, we see their global internet performance as any other NSP would that is interconnected in multiple cities, and we participate on the NANOG and outages mailing lists. All of this allows us to see their problems, which they have on a regular basis. Most of their problems are peering related, which is not their fault, but it is their problem. For example, Cogent hardly peers at all on the east coast except in DC, NYC, and Miami. See http://cogentco.com/htdocs/peering.php. That means here in Atlanta getting to and from Cogent's network and other's means a trip through DC. This is the case throughout the country and it means that Cogent inherently has poorer performance than other similar size networks. Understand this, Cogent is one of the largest networks in the world, but its interconnection with the other top 10 networks is poor. Our little company has more peering with major networks than Cogent in Atlanta. Again, you can buy better bandwidth than Cogent for less than Cogent. Cogent is no longer the low priced leader. We just need people to think they are, so others continue to drop their price and aggressively peer in a fight to beat Cogent. Cogent is the company to beat from a sales perspective as they are probably the best executed. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA ww
Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent
If you sell a national backbone what do you have in North Texas? I need bandwidth desperately and cant find anything less than about $250/Meg. Jory Privett WCCS - Original Message - From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent George Rogato wrote: I'm very serious. I've read it over and over again on the various list from those who resell other bandwidth bashing cogent. Understood, but we don't resell other bandwidth; we sell our own. We are not a tier 1, but we do operate a national backbone and believe there are reasons to chose us over the competition as I outlined in a previous email. It's a stratergy, if you sell high, bash the low. makes sense. It does make sense, but where there is smoke there is fire. Cogent is a good company and is good at what they do. There is nothing wrong with their network from a technical sense. They have no pricing flexibility, which I explained in a previous email, which can be both good and bad depending on the situation. See http://www.renesys.com/blog/2007/08/cogents_secret_weapon.shtml for a positive spin on that. Really, Cogent's performance problems are more political than technical, but they exist nevertheless. We have a unique view into Cogent's network in that we buy a significant amount of services from them, we wirelessly connect some of their customers to their network, we see their global internet performance as any other NSP would that is interconnected in multiple cities, and we participate on the NANOG and outages mailing lists. All of this allows us to see their problems, which they have on a regular basis. Most of their problems are peering related, which is not their fault, but it is their problem. For example, Cogent hardly peers at all on the east coast except in DC, NYC, and Miami. See http://cogentco.com/htdocs/peering.php. That means here in Atlanta getting to and from Cogent's network and other's means a trip through DC. This is the case throughout the country and it means that Cogent inherently has poorer performance than other similar size networks. Understand this, Cogent is one of the largest networks in the world, but its interconnection with the other top 10 networks is poor. Our little company has more peering with major networks than Cogent in Atlanta. Again, you can buy better bandwidth than Cogent for less than Cogent. Cogent is no longer the low priced leader. We just need people to think they are, so others continue to drop their price and aggressively peer in a fight to beat Cogent. Cogent is the company to beat from a sales perspective as they are probably the best executed. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent
George Rogato wrote: I'm very serious. I've read it over and over again on the various list from those who resell other bandwidth bashing cogent. Understood, but we don't resell other bandwidth; we sell our own. We are not a tier 1, but we do operate a national backbone and believe there are reasons to chose us over the competition as I outlined in a previous email. It's a stratergy, if you sell high, bash the low. makes sense. It does make sense, but where there is smoke there is fire. Cogent is a good company and is good at what they do. There is nothing wrong with their network from a technical sense. They have no pricing flexibility, which I explained in a previous email, which can be both good and bad depending on the situation. See http://www.renesys.com/blog/2007/08/cogents_secret_weapon.shtml for a positive spin on that. Really, Cogent's performance problems are more political than technical, but they exist nevertheless. We have a unique view into Cogent's network in that we buy a significant amount of services from them, we wirelessly connect some of their customers to their network, we see their global internet performance as any other NSP would that is interconnected in multiple cities, and we participate on the NANOG and outages mailing lists. All of this allows us to see their problems, which they have on a regular basis. Most of their problems are peering related, which is not their fault, but it is their problem. For example, Cogent hardly peers at all on the east coast except in DC, NYC, and Miami. See http://cogentco.com/htdocs/peering.php. That means here in Atlanta getting to and from Cogent's network and other's means a trip through DC. This is the case throughout the country and it means that Cogent inherently has poorer performance than other similar size networks. Understand this, Cogent is one of the largest networks in the world, but its interconnection with the other top 10 networks is poor. Our little company has more peering with major networks than Cogent in Atlanta. Again, you can buy better bandwidth than Cogent for less than Cogent. Cogent is no longer the low priced leader. We just need people to think they are, so others continue to drop their price and aggressively peer in a fight to beat Cogent. Cogent is the company to beat from a sales perspective as they are probably the best executed. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent
That clarifies it. I just wasn't following your line of questions as they seemed rather vague. However, as I said, I'm not very acquainted with Cogent. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 11:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent I'm very serious. I've read it over and over again on the various list from those who resell other bandwidth bashing cogent. It's a stratergy, if you sell high, bash the low. makes sense. So if Matt says Cogent is the worse, I want him to back it up with facts. I can point to some facts that say otherwise. Thier revenues increase every quarter, and their bit price goes down. How can everyone not like cogent, when their sales keeps going up? Or why do some people not like cogent? Rick Harnish wrote: > George, > > I have read this email three times and still can't determine whether you are > sincerely asking a question(s) or whether you are stirring the pot here. > Please clarify professionally. I actually have been enjoying Matt's posts > this morning. I found them to be very informative. While we don't purchase > anything from Cogent, I still like to have my thumb on the pulse of the > whole industry, from top to bottom. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of George Rogato > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 11:19 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent > > Widely known "where" Matt? > > I'd like to know how you guys get the pulse of what everyone is thinking. > > As for being the red headed step child nobody likes Mike, Do you think > they actually "like" each other, especially one as aggressive as Cogent > who is making the others drop their pricing? > > > > > > Matt Liotta wrote: >> Matt wrote: >>> Is anyone using Cogent as a bandwidth provider? Pros and cons? >>> >> Cogent is awful and widely known for it. Nevertheless, the do have an >> important place in the industry. If you use them for an upstream make >> sure you have another one and understand enough about BGP to get around >> the traffic engineering they do. >> >> >> -Matt >> > > >> >> ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at >> ISPCON ** >> ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** >> ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** >> ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** >> ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at >> http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** >> >> > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> > > >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 9/12/2007 10:56 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 9/12/2007 10:56 AM ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 1
Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent
I am sincere, and I never intentionally stir the pot. But when facts are miscrewed, I prefer to point out what I perceive is a discrepancy. Mike Hammett wrote: I'd say they were sincere... at least that's how I took it. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Rick Harnish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 10:39 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent George, I have read this email three times and still can't determine whether you are sincerely asking a question(s) or whether you are stirring the pot here. Please clarify professionally. I actually have been enjoying Matt's posts this morning. I found them to be very informative. While we don't purchase anything from Cogent, I still like to have my thumb on the pulse of the whole industry, from top to bottom. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 11:19 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent Widely known "where" Matt? I'd like to know how you guys get the pulse of what everyone is thinking. As for being the red headed step child nobody likes Mike, Do you think they actually "like" each other, especially one as aggressive as Cogent who is making the others drop their pricing? Matt Liotta wrote: Matt wrote: Is anyone using Cogent as a bandwidth provider? Pros and cons? Cogent is awful and widely known for it. Nevertheless, the do have an important place in the industry. If you use them for an upstream make sure you have another one and understand enough about BGP to get around the traffic engineering they do. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 9/12/2007 10:56 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 9/12/2007 10:56 AM ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - S
Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent
Mike, you've been listening to too many sales droids on the isp-bandwidth list and old time operators that would really like to charge us 250.00 per meg. George Mike Hammett wrote: Everyone else mostly gets along together. Obviously no one likes their competition. Every few years one of Cogent's peers de-peers them, causing a big ruckus. You can see what's going on via NANOG and ISP-Bandwidth. Lately the opinion is that a few years ago Cogent wasn't worth their cheap price due to quality issues. I'd say th e past year or two things seem to have turned around... other than Level(3) depeering them a couple years ago. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent Widely known "where" Matt? I'd like to know how you guys get the pulse of what everyone is thinking. As for being the red headed step child nobody likes Mike, Do you think they actually "like" each other, especially one as aggressive as Cogent who is making the others drop their pricing? Matt Liotta wrote: Matt wrote: Is anyone using Cogent as a bandwidth provider? Pros and cons? Cogent is awful and widely known for it. Nevertheless, the do have an important place in the industry. If you use them for an upstream make sure you have another one and understand enough about BGP to get around the traffic engineering they do. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/U
Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent
I'd say they were sincere... at least that's how I took it. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Rick Harnish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 10:39 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent George, I have read this email three times and still can't determine whether you are sincerely asking a question(s) or whether you are stirring the pot here. Please clarify professionally. I actually have been enjoying Matt's posts this morning. I found them to be very informative. While we don't purchase anything from Cogent, I still like to have my thumb on the pulse of the whole industry, from top to bottom. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 11:19 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent Widely known "where" Matt? I'd like to know how you guys get the pulse of what everyone is thinking. As for being the red headed step child nobody likes Mike, Do you think they actually "like" each other, especially one as aggressive as Cogent who is making the others drop their pricing? Matt Liotta wrote: Matt wrote: Is anyone using Cogent as a bandwidth provider? Pros and cons? Cogent is awful and widely known for it. Nevertheless, the do have an important place in the industry. If you use them for an upstream make sure you have another one and understand enough about BGP to get around the traffic engineering they do. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 9/12/2007 10:56 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 9/12/2007 10:56 AM ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Us
Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent
I'm very serious. I've read it over and over again on the various list from those who resell other bandwidth bashing cogent. It's a stratergy, if you sell high, bash the low. makes sense. So if Matt says Cogent is the worse, I want him to back it up with facts. I can point to some facts that say otherwise. Thier revenues increase every quarter, and their bit price goes down. How can everyone not like cogent, when their sales keeps going up? Or why do some people not like cogent? Rick Harnish wrote: George, I have read this email three times and still can't determine whether you are sincerely asking a question(s) or whether you are stirring the pot here. Please clarify professionally. I actually have been enjoying Matt's posts this morning. I found them to be very informative. While we don't purchase anything from Cogent, I still like to have my thumb on the pulse of the whole industry, from top to bottom. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 11:19 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent Widely known "where" Matt? I'd like to know how you guys get the pulse of what everyone is thinking. As for being the red headed step child nobody likes Mike, Do you think they actually "like" each other, especially one as aggressive as Cogent who is making the others drop their pricing? Matt Liotta wrote: Matt wrote: Is anyone using Cogent as a bandwidth provider? Pros and cons? Cogent is awful and widely known for it. Nevertheless, the do have an important place in the industry. If you use them for an upstream make sure you have another one and understand enough about BGP to get around the traffic engineering they do. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent
Everyone else mostly gets along together. Obviously no one likes their competition. Every few years one of Cogent's peers de-peers them, causing a big ruckus. You can see what's going on via NANOG and ISP-Bandwidth. Lately the opinion is that a few years ago Cogent wasn't worth their cheap price due to quality issues. I'd say th e past year or two things seem to have turned around... other than Level(3) depeering them a couple years ago. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent Widely known "where" Matt? I'd like to know how you guys get the pulse of what everyone is thinking. As for being the red headed step child nobody likes Mike, Do you think they actually "like" each other, especially one as aggressive as Cogent who is making the others drop their pricing? Matt Liotta wrote: Matt wrote: Is anyone using Cogent as a bandwidth provider? Pros and cons? Cogent is awful and widely known for it. Nevertheless, the do have an important place in the industry. If you use them for an upstream make sure you have another one and understand enough about BGP to get around the traffic engineering they do. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent
George, I have read this email three times and still can't determine whether you are sincerely asking a question(s) or whether you are stirring the pot here. Please clarify professionally. I actually have been enjoying Matt's posts this morning. I found them to be very informative. While we don't purchase anything from Cogent, I still like to have my thumb on the pulse of the whole industry, from top to bottom. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 11:19 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent Widely known "where" Matt? I'd like to know how you guys get the pulse of what everyone is thinking. As for being the red headed step child nobody likes Mike, Do you think they actually "like" each other, especially one as aggressive as Cogent who is making the others drop their pricing? Matt Liotta wrote: > Matt wrote: >> Is anyone using Cogent as a bandwidth provider? Pros and cons? >> > Cogent is awful and widely known for it. Nevertheless, the do have an > important place in the industry. If you use them for an upstream make > sure you have another one and understand enough about BGP to get around > the traffic engineering they do. > > > -Matt > > > > ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at > ISPCON ** > ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** > ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** > ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** > ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at > http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 9/12/2007 10:56 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 9/12/2007 10:56 AM ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent
Widely known "where" Matt? I'd like to know how you guys get the pulse of what everyone is thinking. As for being the red headed step child nobody likes Mike, Do you think they actually "like" each other, especially one as aggressive as Cogent who is making the others drop their pricing? Matt Liotta wrote: Matt wrote: Is anyone using Cogent as a bandwidth provider? Pros and cons? Cogent is awful and widely known for it. Nevertheless, the do have an important place in the industry. If you use them for an upstream make sure you have another one and understand enough about BGP to get around the traffic engineering they do. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent
Mike Hammett wrote: I do agree with what you say, but in the access business too much bandwidth is never enough. This kind of goes full circle to Rick's original post. People will be wanting more bandwidth. If you're using 20 megs now, expect to use 100 megs in a short couple of years. That may be, but why pay now for what you might use in the future? Why not just pay for what you need when you need it? -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent
I do agree with what you say, but in the access business too much bandwidth is never enough. This kind of goes full circle to Rick's original post. People will be wanting more bandwidth. If you're using 20 megs now, expect to use 100 megs in a short couple of years. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 7:31 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent Mike Hammett wrote: I have yet to see anyone go under $15 on 100 megs. That said, I haven't really been looking in a few months. Tier 1 is available for under $15. Of course the price per meg gets people all screwed up since most people don't want 100 megs. For example, let's say you are looking for 20 meg commit burstable to 100. Your only choice with Cogent is 100 megs for $15. However, paying retail for Level3 will get 20 meg commit for $45 per meg, which is much higher than $15, but at the 20 meg level is only $900 MRC vs. Cogent's $1,500 MRC. Further, let's say you accept that no carrier no matter how good they are is perfect. That means you need more than one carrier. Now let's say you do about 50Mbps sustained and want to burst higher. Again, with Cogent you need to by 100 megs for $1,500 and then some other carrier. Unfortunately, buying the 100 megs is a waste since if you get another carrier you will use even less Cogent bandwidth. Now let's say you pickup 20 megs from Savvis for $30, 20 megs from GBLX for $30, and 20 megs from Telia for $20. That would mean you have a total commit across carriers of 60 megs and are paying a total of $1,400. Additionally, that allows you to burst up to 300 megs across the 3 carriers. Obviously, there is a whole host of issues and solutions that can come with mix and matching providers, but one thing seems to always be true; Cogent's inflexibility in their services makes it harder to put them in the mix. In our case, we don't sell bandwidth as cheap as Cogent or even as some of the tier 1s we buy from. We believe our bandwidth is more valuable for 3 reasons. First, we will see you any commit you want and allow it to burst as high as you want. Want 10 meg commit on a GigE? Bring it on. This allows you to only pay for what you use. Just like other carriers the price per meg drops as you buy more, but not buying excess capacity even at a higher rate is cheaper. Second, we buy from every tier 1 that has interesting routes. After buying enough tier 1s additional providers don't make the routing any better. Additionally, we peer with every major content provider and attempt to peer with tier 2 and tier 3 providers when we can. The big guys like to play favorites with peering policies, while we just want the best routes. Third, we understand what BGP is and is not. BGP has no concept for the performance of routes. Performance matters! We route optimize our bandwidth to ensure not the shortest or cheapest route, but the best performing route. At the end of the day, all of our businesses are measured by the quality of reliability of our internet service. Many WISPs like to focus on the wireless portion, but it is the sum of the parts that matters. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent
Mike Hammett wrote: I have yet to see anyone go under $15 on 100 megs. That said, I haven't really been looking in a few months. Tier 1 is available for under $15. Of course the price per meg gets people all screwed up since most people don't want 100 megs. For example, let's say you are looking for 20 meg commit burstable to 100. Your only choice with Cogent is 100 megs for $15. However, paying retail for Level3 will get 20 meg commit for $45 per meg, which is much higher than $15, but at the 20 meg level is only $900 MRC vs. Cogent's $1,500 MRC. Further, let's say you accept that no carrier no matter how good they are is perfect. That means you need more than one carrier. Now let's say you do about 50Mbps sustained and want to burst higher. Again, with Cogent you need to by 100 megs for $1,500 and then some other carrier. Unfortunately, buying the 100 megs is a waste since if you get another carrier you will use even less Cogent bandwidth. Now let's say you pickup 20 megs from Savvis for $30, 20 megs from GBLX for $30, and 20 megs from Telia for $20. That would mean you have a total commit across carriers of 60 megs and are paying a total of $1,400. Additionally, that allows you to burst up to 300 megs across the 3 carriers. Obviously, there is a whole host of issues and solutions that can come with mix and matching providers, but one thing seems to always be true; Cogent's inflexibility in their services makes it harder to put them in the mix. In our case, we don't sell bandwidth as cheap as Cogent or even as some of the tier 1s we buy from. We believe our bandwidth is more valuable for 3 reasons. First, we will see you any commit you want and allow it to burst as high as you want. Want 10 meg commit on a GigE? Bring it on. This allows you to only pay for what you use. Just like other carriers the price per meg drops as you buy more, but not buying excess capacity even at a higher rate is cheaper. Second, we buy from every tier 1 that has interesting routes. After buying enough tier 1s additional providers don't make the routing any better. Additionally, we peer with every major content provider and attempt to peer with tier 2 and tier 3 providers when we can. The big guys like to play favorites with peering policies, while we just want the best routes. Third, we understand what BGP is and is not. BGP has no concept for the performance of routes. Performance matters! We route optimize our bandwidth to ensure not the shortest or cheapest route, but the best performing route. At the end of the day, all of our businesses are measured by the quality of reliability of our internet service. Many WISPs like to focus on the wireless portion, but it is the sum of the parts that matters. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent
I have yet to see anyone go under $15 on 100 megs. That said, I haven't really been looking in a few months. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 6:51 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent Matt Liotta wrote: Cogent is awful and widely known for it. Nevertheless, the do have an important place in the industry. If you use them for an upstream make sure you have another one and understand enough about BGP to get around the traffic engineering they do. I should also add that there isn't much point in buying Cogent at carrier hotels. Tier 1 providers are available for the same or cheaper than Cogent in many cases. Cogent only tends to be cheaper outside carrier hotels. One thing to consider for those who understand Cogent's peering problems is that Cogent has a rather good BGP community setup. You can buy transit from them and then using community strings turn it into a peering session. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent
Matt Liotta wrote: Cogent is awful and widely known for it. Nevertheless, the do have an important place in the industry. If you use them for an upstream make sure you have another one and understand enough about BGP to get around the traffic engineering they do. I should also add that there isn't much point in buying Cogent at carrier hotels. Tier 1 providers are available for the same or cheaper than Cogent in many cases. Cogent only tends to be cheaper outside carrier hotels. One thing to consider for those who understand Cogent's peering problems is that Cogent has a rather good BGP community setup. You can buy transit from them and then using community strings turn it into a peering session. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent
Matt wrote: Is anyone using Cogent as a bandwidth provider? Pros and cons? Cogent is awful and widely known for it. Nevertheless, the do have an important place in the industry. If you use them for an upstream make sure you have another one and understand enough about BGP to get around the traffic engineering they do. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent
I don't have them, but I'm saying what I hear. Everything on their network is great. Sometimes there's issues with their peering locations. Everyone has them, but Cogent seems to have more. That's because they're the red-headed stepchild of the carrier world. None of the carriers really like them, but they have to because they have such a presense. I would only use Cogent in a BGP mix. I wo uld also use them for P2P traffic. There's no point in using your more expensive upstreams for a best-effort service. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Matt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent Is anyone using Cogent as a bandwidth provider? Pros and cons? Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent
I've talked to a few who use cogent and love the price and the service. I am on cogent, but only because I drilled down my upstream fiber carrier for price and I noticed they swapped me over from level3 to cogent. I have not had any issues what so ever from them. Faisal Imtiaz wrote: They are the "Heidi Fleiss" of the industry Pretty much all the big boys deal with them, but no one likes them or wants to talk about them. My understanding is that they have a very decent network, as long as your traffic does not need to cross their network to another provider. (Their peering points are greatly overloaded -:)) But, because they have a very large network, carrying a lot of traffic, so as to keep the end users happy, the only way to get decent performance is to connect directly to them (Cogent). You may be surprised as to how much traffic from Canada comes to US on Cogent. These are my two cents worth. Faisal Imtiaz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 7:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent Is anyone using Cogent as a bandwidth provider? Pros and cons? Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent
They are the "Heidi Fleiss" of the industry Pretty much all the big boys deal with them, but no one likes them or wants to talk about them. My understanding is that they have a very decent network, as long as your traffic does not need to cross their network to another provider. (Their peering points are greatly overloaded -:)) But, because they have a very large network, carrying a lot of traffic, so as to keep the end users happy, the only way to get decent performance is to connect directly to them (Cogent). You may be surprised as to how much traffic from Canada comes to US on Cogent. These are my two cents worth. Faisal Imtiaz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 7:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent Is anyone using Cogent as a bandwidth provider? Pros and cons? Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alternate transport providers, Cogent
Is anyone using Cogent as a bandwidth provider? Pros and cons? Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
