Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)
I would say you're right Dylan so I am posting this reply on-list so everyone knows the outcome of our newest company policy regarding site surveys. (see below) Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky "Your Hometown Broadband Provider" http://www.KyWiFi.com Call Us Today: 859.274.4033 === $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet $14.99 Home Phone Service $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV - No Phone Line Required for DSL - FREE Activation & Equipment - Affordable Upfront Pricing - Locally Owned & Operated - We Also Service Most Rural Areas === - Original Message - From: "Dylan Oliver To: KyWiFi LLC Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 9:56 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC) Thanks for the quick reply! I'll bet others on the list would like to know.. On 12/13/06, KyWiFi LLC wrote: > > Hi Dylan, > > It's working out great, we have made it standard policy. > We haven't had to charge anyone's credit card because > they all have purchased our service following a successful > site survey at their premises. > > > Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder > KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky > "Your Hometown Broadband Provider" > http://www.KyWiFi.com > Call Us Today: 859.274.4033 > === > $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet > $14.99 Home Phone Service > $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV > - No Phone Line Required for DSL > - FREE Activation & Equipment > - Affordable Upfront Pricing > - Locally Owned & Operated > - We Also Service Most Rural Areas > === > > > - Original Message - > From: "Dylan Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 9:44 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC) > > > How's your new policy for site surveys working out? > > On 10/10/06, KyWiFi LLC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > If it deters a tire kicker from wasting our company's resources, > > then I will be very happy. I don't believe it will deter anyone > > who is seriously wanting our broadband service as they will > > not be charged a site survey fee unless they decline service > > following a successful site survey at their location. > > > > If I forget, will someone please remind me in a couple months > > so I can report back whether or not our new site survey policy > > is successful or not. Sure will be nice if it works like your puppy > > story. ;-) > > > > > > Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder > > KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky > > "Your Hometown Broadband Provider" > > http://www.KyWiFi.com > > Call Us Today: 859.274.4033 > > === > > $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet > > $14.99 Home Phone Service > > $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV > > - No Phone Line Required for DSL > > - FREE Activation & Equipment > > - Affordable Upfront Pricing > > - Locally Owned & Operated > > - We Also Service Most Rural Areas > > === > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "WISPA General List" > > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 10:45 AM > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC) > > > > > > Its not that I don't understand or agree with your point of view, but I > > just > > question wether it will work based on unecessarily detering customers. > Its > > hard enough getting someone willing to try wireless in the first place, > > and > > now you are saying that the odds of getting it aren't good enough to to > > risk > > your $29. If trying to get their business isn't worth $29 to you, They > > may > > not even bother to subscribe. > > > > On the flip side, if your business is like mine, and you focus on > Business > > and sure things, the lost residential business may not be a bad thing, > if > > it > > just isn;t financially viable to go after with money at risk. > > > > It also could end up working th opposite. You are establishing value for > > your time. Possibly preventing other from abusing/taking up your time in > > the > > future. And when you set a value, people recognize it as more valuable > and > > want it more. > > > > It goes back to my puppy story. I put an add for free puppies in the > > paper, > > and nobody called. The next week I put an add Puppi
Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)
Yeah I do the same thing. We tell the potential new customer that if the survey goes good we want to install them on the spot do to higher gas prices and cost of sending the guys out there twice. If they only want the survey done and it goes good and they dont let us install it on the spot we tack a 35.00 survey charge on them. Seems to work good for us. Cuts down on time and allows us to do more in a day. Todd Lancaster AlwaysOnLine LLC. - Original Message - From: "Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC) We handle this a bit differently. We don't do site surveys anymore. We only do installs. We book the appointment etc. I head out to the site and IF I can't figure out a way to get service to them, I leave. They owe nothing. But if I can get them lit up, I have a customer. laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "KyWiFi LLC" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 1:10 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC) If it deters a tire kicker from wasting our company's resources, then I will be very happy. I don't believe it will deter anyone who is seriously wanting our broadband service as they will not be charged a site survey fee unless they decline service following a successful site survey at their location. If I forget, will someone please remind me in a couple months so I can report back whether or not our new site survey policy is successful or not. Sure will be nice if it works like your puppy story. ;-) Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky "Your Hometown Broadband Provider" http://www.KyWiFi.com Call Us Today: 859.274.4033 === $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet $14.99 Home Phone Service $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV - No Phone Line Required for DSL - FREE Activation & Equipment - Affordable Upfront Pricing - Locally Owned & Operated - We Also Service Most Rural Areas === - Original Message - From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC) Its not that I don't understand or agree with your point of view, but I just question wether it will work based on unecessarily detering customers. Its hard enough getting someone willing to try wireless in the first place, and now you are saying that the odds of getting it aren't good enough to to risk your $29. If trying to get their business isn't worth $29 to you, They may not even bother to subscribe. On the flip side, if your business is like mine, and you focus on Business and sure things, the lost residential business may not be a bad thing, if it just isn;t financially viable to go after with money at risk. It also could end up working th opposite. You are establishing value for your time. Possibly preventing other from abusing/taking up your time in the future. And when you set a value, people recognize it as more valuable and want it more. It goes back to my puppy story. I put an add for free puppies in the paper, and nobody called. The next week I put an add Puppies only $25, and sold every one of them the first day the paper was out. I'm interested in seeing how it plays out for you over time, charging the survey fee. Let us know as the plan progresses. PS. This is also a factor of wether you are in a underserved or served area. There is more demand in an underserved area. In my urban market, everyone offers everything for free. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "KyWiFi LLC" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC) I think those who decline our service following a successful site survey are just tire kickers. They almost always tell our subcontractor that they "will speak to the wife and get back to us" or they were merely "wanting to see if our service was available in their area". People of this stature waste our time and resources, they are the ones that we need to avoid from the get go in order to optimize our company's efficiency. I do not feel that we should punish ethical customers by charging an inflated ins
Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)
We handle this a bit differently. We don't do site surveys anymore. We only do installs. We book the appointment etc. I head out to the site and IF I can't figure out a way to get service to them, I leave. They owe nothing. But if I can get them lit up, I have a customer. laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "KyWiFi LLC" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 1:10 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC) If it deters a tire kicker from wasting our company's resources, then I will be very happy. I don't believe it will deter anyone who is seriously wanting our broadband service as they will not be charged a site survey fee unless they decline service following a successful site survey at their location. If I forget, will someone please remind me in a couple months so I can report back whether or not our new site survey policy is successful or not. Sure will be nice if it works like your puppy story. ;-) Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky "Your Hometown Broadband Provider" http://www.KyWiFi.com Call Us Today: 859.274.4033 === $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet $14.99 Home Phone Service $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV - No Phone Line Required for DSL - FREE Activation & Equipment - Affordable Upfront Pricing - Locally Owned & Operated - We Also Service Most Rural Areas === - Original Message - From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC) Its not that I don't understand or agree with your point of view, but I just question wether it will work based on unecessarily detering customers. Its hard enough getting someone willing to try wireless in the first place, and now you are saying that the odds of getting it aren't good enough to to risk your $29. If trying to get their business isn't worth $29 to you, They may not even bother to subscribe. On the flip side, if your business is like mine, and you focus on Business and sure things, the lost residential business may not be a bad thing, if it just isn;t financially viable to go after with money at risk. It also could end up working th opposite. You are establishing value for your time. Possibly preventing other from abusing/taking up your time in the future. And when you set a value, people recognize it as more valuable and want it more. It goes back to my puppy story. I put an add for free puppies in the paper, and nobody called. The next week I put an add Puppies only $25, and sold every one of them the first day the paper was out. I'm interested in seeing how it plays out for you over time, charging the survey fee. Let us know as the plan progresses. PS. This is also a factor of wether you are in a underserved or served area. There is more demand in an underserved area. In my urban market, everyone offers everything for free. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "KyWiFi LLC" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC) I think those who decline our service following a successful site survey are just tire kickers. They almost always tell our subcontractor that they "will speak to the wife and get back to us" or they were merely "wanting to see if our service was available in their area". People of this stature waste our time and resources, they are the ones that we need to avoid from the get go in order to optimize our company's efficiency. I do not feel that we should punish ethical customers by charging an inflated installation fee to subsidize our site survey expenses incurred by the tire kickers. We've decided that we are going to require a signed site survey request form with payment authorization prior to the site survey being performed and those who decline service following a successful site survey WILL BE billed the applicable site survey fee. If they are serious about obtaining our service, they will find a fax machine or scanner to return the signed document to our company. Feel free to follow-up with me in a couple of months to see how this new policy is working for our WISP. BTW, the other WISP in our area is charging $75 - $150 for a site survey fee. The word on the street is that they are ad
Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)
If it deters a tire kicker from wasting our company's resources, then I will be very happy. I don't believe it will deter anyone who is seriously wanting our broadband service as they will not be charged a site survey fee unless they decline service following a successful site survey at their location. If I forget, will someone please remind me in a couple months so I can report back whether or not our new site survey policy is successful or not. Sure will be nice if it works like your puppy story. ;-) Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky "Your Hometown Broadband Provider" http://www.KyWiFi.com Call Us Today: 859.274.4033 === $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet $14.99 Home Phone Service $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV - No Phone Line Required for DSL - FREE Activation & Equipment - Affordable Upfront Pricing - Locally Owned & Operated - We Also Service Most Rural Areas === - Original Message - From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC) Its not that I don't understand or agree with your point of view, but I just question wether it will work based on unecessarily detering customers. Its hard enough getting someone willing to try wireless in the first place, and now you are saying that the odds of getting it aren't good enough to to risk your $29. If trying to get their business isn't worth $29 to you, They may not even bother to subscribe. On the flip side, if your business is like mine, and you focus on Business and sure things, the lost residential business may not be a bad thing, if it just isn;t financially viable to go after with money at risk. It also could end up working th opposite. You are establishing value for your time. Possibly preventing other from abusing/taking up your time in the future. And when you set a value, people recognize it as more valuable and want it more. It goes back to my puppy story. I put an add for free puppies in the paper, and nobody called. The next week I put an add Puppies only $25, and sold every one of them the first day the paper was out. I'm interested in seeing how it plays out for you over time, charging the survey fee. Let us know as the plan progresses. PS. This is also a factor of wether you are in a underserved or served area. There is more demand in an underserved area. In my urban market, everyone offers everything for free. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "KyWiFi LLC" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC) >I think those who decline our service following a successful site > survey are just tire kickers. They almost always tell our subcontractor > that they "will speak to the wife and get back to us" or they were > merely "wanting to see if our service was available in their area". > People of this stature waste our time and resources, they are the ones > that we need to avoid from the get go in order to optimize our company's > efficiency. I do not feel that we should punish ethical customers by > charging an inflated installation fee to subsidize our site survey > expenses > incurred by the tire kickers. We've decided that we are going to require > a signed site survey request form with payment authorization prior to the > site survey being performed and those who decline service following a > successful site survey WILL BE billed the applicable site survey fee. If > they are serious about obtaining our service, they will find a fax machine > or scanner to return the signed document to our company. Feel free to > follow-up with me in a couple of months to see how this new policy is > working for our WISP. BTW, the other WISP in our area is charging > $75 - $150 for a site survey fee. The word on the street is that they are > adding 4 - 5 new subscribers per day but I find this very hard to believe > because we are only adding 4 - 5 per week but our coverage area is > more limited than their's. They are also charging $300 - $500 in upfront > installation/CPE fees compared to our $99 upfront fee. When their > company was planning expansion into our area, my partner and I hosted > a conference call with their two owners and they told us point blank, > "people will pay us whatever we charge them because we are their > only option." This is just the opposite of how my partner and I approach > our WISP, we did not get into this business to get rich, we simply wanted > to offer a better service (for less) to the co
Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)
inline Tom DeReggi wrote: Its not that I don't understand or agree with your point of view, but I just question wether it will work based on unecessarily detering customers. Its hard enough getting someone willing to try wireless in the first place, and now you are saying that the odds of getting it aren't good enough to to risk your $29. If trying to get their business isn't worth $29 to you, They may not even bother to subscribe. On the flip side, if your business is like mine, and you focus on Business and sure things, the lost residential business may not be a bad thing, if it just isn;t financially viable to go after with money at risk. It also could end up working th opposite. You are establishing value for your time. Possibly preventing other from abusing/taking up your time in the future. And when you set a value, people recognize it as more valuable and want it more. It goes back to my puppy story. I put an add for free puppies in the paper, and nobody called. The next week I put an add Puppies only $25, and sold every one of them the first day the paper was out. We've done the puppy thing and it works. My grandpa used to sell used cars. If a car wouldn't sell, he'd raise the price and it would sell. I'm interested in seeing how it plays out for you over time, charging the survey fee. Let us know as the plan progresses. PS. This is also a factor of wether you are in a underserved or served area. There is more demand in an underserved area. In my urban market, everyone offers everything for free. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "KyWiFi LLC" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC) I think those who decline our service following a successful site survey are just tire kickers. They almost always tell our subcontractor that they "will speak to the wife and get back to us" or they were merely "wanting to see if our service was available in their area". People of this stature waste our time and resources, they are the ones that we need to avoid from the get go in order to optimize our company's efficiency. I do not feel that we should punish ethical customers by charging an inflated installation fee to subsidize our site survey expenses incurred by the tire kickers. We've decided that we are going to require a signed site survey request form with payment authorization prior to the site survey being performed and those who decline service following a successful site survey WILL BE billed the applicable site survey fee. If they are serious about obtaining our service, they will find a fax machine or scanner to return the signed document to our company. Feel free to follow-up with me in a couple of months to see how this new policy is working for our WISP. BTW, the other WISP in our area is charging $75 - $150 for a site survey fee. The word on the street is that they are adding 4 - 5 new subscribers per day but I find this very hard to believe because we are only adding 4 - 5 per week but our coverage area is more limited than their's. They are also charging $300 - $500 in upfront installation/CPE fees compared to our $99 upfront fee. When their company was planning expansion into our area, my partner and I hosted a conference call with their two owners and they told us point blank, "people will pay us whatever we charge them because we are their only option." This is just the opposite of how my partner and I approach our WISP, we did not get into this business to get rich, we simply wanted to offer a better service (for less) to the communities we service. We're not the type of company who's strategy involves taking advantage of people but if someone wants something (a site survey for instance), they need to pay for it because it's the fair thing to do being that it does require time, labor and other expenses. For now, we're just going to enforce the site survey fee for those who are disrespectful of our resources (i.e. those who decline our service following a successful site survey). Time will tell. Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky "Your Hometown Broadband Provider" http://www.KyWiFi.com Call Us Today: 859.274.4033 === $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet $14.99 Home Phone Service $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV - No Phone Line Required for DSL - FREE Activation & Equipment - Affordable Upfront Pricing - Locally Owned & Operated - We Also Service Most Rural Areas === ----- Original Message - From: "Peter R." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 7:56 AM Subject: Re:
Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)
Its not that I don't understand or agree with your point of view, but I just question wether it will work based on unecessarily detering customers. Its hard enough getting someone willing to try wireless in the first place, and now you are saying that the odds of getting it aren't good enough to to risk your $29. If trying to get their business isn't worth $29 to you, They may not even bother to subscribe. On the flip side, if your business is like mine, and you focus on Business and sure things, the lost residential business may not be a bad thing, if it just isn;t financially viable to go after with money at risk. It also could end up working th opposite. You are establishing value for your time. Possibly preventing other from abusing/taking up your time in the future. And when you set a value, people recognize it as more valuable and want it more. It goes back to my puppy story. I put an add for free puppies in the paper, and nobody called. The next week I put an add Puppies only $25, and sold every one of them the first day the paper was out. I'm interested in seeing how it plays out for you over time, charging the survey fee. Let us know as the plan progresses. PS. This is also a factor of wether you are in a underserved or served area. There is more demand in an underserved area. In my urban market, everyone offers everything for free. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "KyWiFi LLC" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC) I think those who decline our service following a successful site survey are just tire kickers. They almost always tell our subcontractor that they "will speak to the wife and get back to us" or they were merely "wanting to see if our service was available in their area". People of this stature waste our time and resources, they are the ones that we need to avoid from the get go in order to optimize our company's efficiency. I do not feel that we should punish ethical customers by charging an inflated installation fee to subsidize our site survey expenses incurred by the tire kickers. We've decided that we are going to require a signed site survey request form with payment authorization prior to the site survey being performed and those who decline service following a successful site survey WILL BE billed the applicable site survey fee. If they are serious about obtaining our service, they will find a fax machine or scanner to return the signed document to our company. Feel free to follow-up with me in a couple of months to see how this new policy is working for our WISP. BTW, the other WISP in our area is charging $75 - $150 for a site survey fee. The word on the street is that they are adding 4 - 5 new subscribers per day but I find this very hard to believe because we are only adding 4 - 5 per week but our coverage area is more limited than their's. They are also charging $300 - $500 in upfront installation/CPE fees compared to our $99 upfront fee. When their company was planning expansion into our area, my partner and I hosted a conference call with their two owners and they told us point blank, "people will pay us whatever we charge them because we are their only option." This is just the opposite of how my partner and I approach our WISP, we did not get into this business to get rich, we simply wanted to offer a better service (for less) to the communities we service. We're not the type of company who's strategy involves taking advantage of people but if someone wants something (a site survey for instance), they need to pay for it because it's the fair thing to do being that it does require time, labor and other expenses. For now, we're just going to enforce the site survey fee for those who are disrespectful of our resources (i.e. those who decline our service following a successful site survey). Time will tell. Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky "Your Hometown Broadband Provider" http://www.KyWiFi.com Call Us Today: 859.274.4033 === $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet $14.99 Home Phone Service $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV - No Phone Line Required for DSL - FREE Activation & Equipment - Affordable Upfront Pricing - Locally Owned & Operated - We Also Service Most Rural Areas === - Original Message - From: "Peter R." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 7:56 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC) It seems more likely that Blair is disqualifying his prospects before spending money on a site survey. One of the best sales skills is the ability to DQ
Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)
I think those who decline our service following a successful site survey are just tire kickers. They almost always tell our subcontractor that they "will speak to the wife and get back to us" or they were merely "wanting to see if our service was available in their area". People of this stature waste our time and resources, they are the ones that we need to avoid from the get go in order to optimize our company's efficiency. I do not feel that we should punish ethical customers by charging an inflated installation fee to subsidize our site survey expenses incurred by the tire kickers. We've decided that we are going to require a signed site survey request form with payment authorization prior to the site survey being performed and those who decline service following a successful site survey WILL BE billed the applicable site survey fee. If they are serious about obtaining our service, they will find a fax machine or scanner to return the signed document to our company. Feel free to follow-up with me in a couple of months to see how this new policy is working for our WISP. BTW, the other WISP in our area is charging $75 - $150 for a site survey fee. The word on the street is that they are adding 4 - 5 new subscribers per day but I find this very hard to believe because we are only adding 4 - 5 per week but our coverage area is more limited than their's. They are also charging $300 - $500 in upfront installation/CPE fees compared to our $99 upfront fee. When their company was planning expansion into our area, my partner and I hosted a conference call with their two owners and they told us point blank, "people will pay us whatever we charge them because we are their only option." This is just the opposite of how my partner and I approach our WISP, we did not get into this business to get rich, we simply wanted to offer a better service (for less) to the communities we service. We're not the type of company who's strategy involves taking advantage of people but if someone wants something (a site survey for instance), they need to pay for it because it's the fair thing to do being that it does require time, labor and other expenses. For now, we're just going to enforce the site survey fee for those who are disrespectful of our resources (i.e. those who decline our service following a successful site survey). Time will tell. Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky "Your Hometown Broadband Provider" http://www.KyWiFi.com Call Us Today: 859.274.4033 === $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet $14.99 Home Phone Service $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV - No Phone Line Required for DSL - FREE Activation & Equipment - Affordable Upfront Pricing - Locally Owned & Operated - We Also Service Most Rural Areas === - Original Message - From: "Peter R." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 7:56 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC) It seems more likely that Blair is disqualifying his prospects before spending money on a site survey. One of the best sales skills is the ability to DQ prospects early - it saves the sales guy and the company time and money. If the site survey for the prospect comes back positive, what are the objections? Are you creating a response for each objection? How are you presenting the site survey results? Is it an enthusiastic delivery like The Irrestible Offer or is it flat? "Wonderful! Right now you have a chance to get our broadband service. In just 2 days we will have you surfing the web on a safe, reliable and fast platform." - Peter RAD-INFO, Inc. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)
It seems more likely that Blair is disqualifying his prospects before spending money on a site survey. One of the best sales skills is the ability to DQ prospects early - it saves the sales guy and the company time and money. If the site survey for the prospect comes back positive, what are the objections? Are you creating a response for each objection? How are you presenting the site survey results? Is it an enthusiastic delivery like The Irrestible Offer or is it flat? "Wonderful! Right now you have a chance to get our broadband service. In just 2 days we will have you surfing the web on a safe, reliable and fast platform." - Peter RAD-INFO, Inc. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations
Hi, We stopped doing site surveys almost 4 years ago. We were spending way too much time and having to send someone to the location twice seemed like a waste. (some of our coverage area is a 2 hour drive each way) We now have coverage maps and tell people "we no longer do site surveys. Based on your location, you should be able to get a signal. If you want to sign up for service, we'll send a tech out to perform the installation. If they can not get a signal while there, we don't charge you anything". That way, they are locked in to buying the service if we can get it to work, and you aren't wasting your time. Travis Microserv KyWiFi LLC wrote: We pay $10 - $30 to a sub-contractor to do a site survey and we usually have 5 - 10 of them a week. This has been an expense we've absorbed but starting in the next few days, we will be passing this fee along to the person requesting the site survey. If their site survey is successful and they purchase our service, their site survey will be free. If their site survey is unsuccessful or if it is successful but they do not purchase our service within (3) business days following us notifying them that the site survey was successful, then their credit card will be billed a $29.99 site survey fee. We will be having them submit their credit card info at the time of their site survey request so we have it on file prior to their site survey. This will also streamline things because the subcontractor will no longer need to ask them for their credit card info on the day of their installation. How are other list members handling site survey related expenses? BTW, we keep a database of street addresses which show if its site survey was successful or not. This allows us to avoid site surveys in the same area from time to time depending on the terrain. While we're on the topic of site surveys, has anyone heard or seen of an affordable handheld device that can be attached to an antenna and then display the SSID and signal/noise readings? I know bvsystems.com has some similar devices but they are way over priced IMHO. I purchased an iPAQ and PCMCIA expansion sleeve but every Orinoco Gold card I have locks up in it after a few minutes so it is not what I would call reliable. I wonder if you can purchase a PCMCIA expansion sleeve for the Dell Axim PDA? I really think it would perform better than the iPAQ if this is possible. Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky "Your Hometown Broadband Provider" http://www.KyWiFi.com Call Us Today: 859.274.4033 === $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet $14.99 Home Phone Service $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV - No Phone Line Required for DSL - FREE Activation & Equipment - Affordable Upfront Pricing - Locally Owned & Operated - We Also Service Most Rural Areas === - Original Message - From: "Mark Nash - Lists" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:03 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations I've done all of our installations so things have been easy, but I'm moving toward contractor installs. As it has been, I have not done site surveys...I go out to install and if I don't get the connection I walk away and the customer doesn't owe us anything. So I'm out a little time and a slot on the schedule...big deal. With contractor installs, how do people handle this? Do we do site surveys prior to the installation? I know that there are owners out there that own remote systems so you must pay something for site surveys or pay something for unsuccessful installations??? Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax - Original Message - From: Rick Smith To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 9:57 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Outsourced installations right – but I hand them the EQ, name and number and let them schedule their installs. They pay me $10 back if I hear from a customer that they didn’t make an appointment, and they credit me the install if I get a complaint serious enough from the customer.. J R From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 12:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations We actually did that for a while. It works out well, except that a contractor must provide his own tools and manage his own time. In other words, I cannot promise that he will be at Mr Smith's house at 2:00p on Wednesday. He has to be the one to schedule installs. It gets real fuzzy there. pd Rick Smith wrote: the answer is hire a company to do installations for you. if your employee just happens to own that company, well, oh wel
Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations
We pay $10 - $30 to a sub-contractor to do a site survey and we usually have 5 - 10 of them a week. This has been an expense we've absorbed but starting in the next few days, we will be passing this fee along to the person requesting the site survey. If their site survey is successful and they purchase our service, their site survey will be free. If their site survey is unsuccessful or if it is successful but they do not purchase our service within (3) business days following us notifying them that the site survey was successful, then their credit card will be billed a $29.99 site survey fee. We will be having them submit their credit card info at the time of their site survey request so we have it on file prior to their site survey. This will also streamline things because the subcontractor will no longer need to ask them for their credit card info on the day of their installation. How are other list members handling site survey related expenses? BTW, we keep a database of street addresses which show if its site survey was successful or not. This allows us to avoid site surveys in the same area from time to time depending on the terrain. While we're on the topic of site surveys, has anyone heard or seen of an affordable handheld device that can be attached to an antenna and then display the SSID and signal/noise readings? I know bvsystems.com has some similar devices but they are way over priced IMHO. I purchased an iPAQ and PCMCIA expansion sleeve but every Orinoco Gold card I have locks up in it after a few minutes so it is not what I would call reliable. I wonder if you can purchase a PCMCIA expansion sleeve for the Dell Axim PDA? I really think it would perform better than the iPAQ if this is possible. Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky "Your Hometown Broadband Provider" http://www.KyWiFi.com Call Us Today: 859.274.4033 === $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet $14.99 Home Phone Service $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV - No Phone Line Required for DSL - FREE Activation & Equipment - Affordable Upfront Pricing - Locally Owned & Operated - We Also Service Most Rural Areas === - Original Message - From: "Mark Nash - Lists" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:03 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations I've done all of our installations so things have been easy, but I'm moving toward contractor installs. As it has been, I have not done site surveys...I go out to install and if I don't get the connection I walk away and the customer doesn't owe us anything. So I'm out a little time and a slot on the schedule...big deal. With contractor installs, how do people handle this? Do we do site surveys prior to the installation? I know that there are owners out there that own remote systems so you must pay something for site surveys or pay something for unsuccessful installations??? Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax - Original Message - From: Rick Smith To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 9:57 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Outsourced installations right – but I hand them the EQ, name and number and let them schedule their installs. They pay me $10 back if I hear from a customer that they didn’t make an appointment, and they credit me the install if I get a complaint serious enough from the customer.. J R From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 12:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations We actually did that for a while. It works out well, except that a contractor must provide his own tools and manage his own time. In other words, I cannot promise that he will be at Mr Smith's house at 2:00p on Wednesday. He has to be the one to schedule installs. It gets real fuzzy there. pd Rick Smith wrote: the answer is hire a company to do installations for you. if your employee just happens to own that company, well, oh well… It’s all invoices. Pay them as normal, and you don’t need to worry about taxes, etc. Your employee (or sub’d company J…) does that on their own. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 5:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations Where the problems come in are, that paying someone peice rate does NOT NEGATE the requirement to pay overtime for Employees. Nor does it Negate the IRS's definition of what an EMployee is and a contractor is. You have to restrict employees to work less than 40 hours or prepair to pay time and a
Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations
I've done all of our installations so things have been easy, but I'm moving toward contractor installs. As it has been, I have not done site surveys...I go out to install and if I don't get the connection I walk away and the customer doesn't owe us anything. So I'm out a little time and a slot on the schedule...big deal. With contractor installs, how do people handle this? Do we do site surveys prior to the installation? I know that there are owners out there that own remote systems so you must pay something for site surveys or pay something for unsuccessful installations??? Mark NashNetwork EngineerUnwiredOnline.Net350 Holly StreetJunction City, OR 97448http://www.uwol.net541-998-541-998-5599 fax - Original Message - From: Rick Smith To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 9:57 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Outsourced installations right – but I hand them the EQ, name and number and let them schedule their installs. They pay me $10 back if I hear from a customer that they didn’t make an appointment, and they credit me the install if I get a complaint serious enough from the customer.. J R From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete DavisSent: Monday, September 25, 2006 12:15 PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations We actually did that for a while. It works out well, except that a contractor must provide his own tools and manage his own time. In other words, I cannot promise that he will be at Mr Smith's house at 2:00p on Wednesday. He has to be the one to schedule installs. It gets real fuzzy there. pdRick Smith wrote: the answer is hire a company to do installations for you. if your employee just happens to own that company, well, oh well… It’s all invoices. Pay them as normal, and you don’t need to worry about taxes, etc. Your employee (or sub’d company J…) does that on their own. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggiSent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 5:28 PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations Where the problems come in are, that paying someone peice rate does NOT NEGATE the requirement to pay overtime for Employees. Nor does it Negate the IRS's definition of what an EMployee is and a contractor is. You have to restrict employees to work less than 40 hours or prepair to pay time and a half for your peice rate. If an employee works 60 hours, and completes three installs at in that week, at a peice rate of $100 each you would pay the employee. $300 / 60 hours = $5 per hour. Overtime (20 hours) would be paid on $100 of the pay. Addtional over time pay (half time) would be $50. Total paycheck would be $350. If it took them 60 hours to just get two installs done, they would be less than the minimum wage. So there are two requirements 1) You must have a minimum pay, calcuated on the total number of hours that THEY record working. 2) Must figure out someones average hourly rate on a weekly basis. This complicates the accounting duties, and forces the account to custom pay each employee each month. Two problems that can occur are... What if you want to pay an employee well, because they are really doing a good job, and then one week they decide to go really slow? You end up paying someone a huge amount of overtime unexpectedly! What we learned was that a employee's record of stated hours worked was accurate. So paying peice rate does NOT NEGATE the need of the management to record and manage the hours worked by an employee. We learned, that an Employer is NOT responsible for their productivity the employer is. So if they go to the movies all day without you knowing it, and work late to get the job done, you still owe them the overtime, regardless of what flat peice rate you negotiated. These are some of the reasons that we chose to put employees on Salary instead of Piece rate. We live in a sue happy county. We just plan on everyone taking way to long for an install, and put very low expectations on what they are expected to accomplish, and we save on management and accounting salaries. If they get done early, we have them do other things. I won't talk about what happens if they don't get their work done, thats handled on a case by case basis. So we chose salary for ease. IF they consistently do well, they get a higher salary and stock options. It creates a team effort, not a what do I get mentality. I don't know if that is the right
Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations
inline... >-Original Message- >From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 11:22 AM >To: 'WISPA General List' >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations > >Until, the IRS decides that they can not be considered a contractor, because >they do not do work for other people, and are not solely in control of how a >job gets done. >To do it legal, its pretty important that installer's company becomes >Incorporated or LLC. Once they do that, its hard to keep control of what they >do, and you loose benefits of Employing. >Benefits of employing, does that exist ? :-) > >I guess the truth is, can you find installers willing to give up benefits of >being an employee, and still be available when you need them like an employee? >>> If you pay them well and give them enough work so they don't starve John > >Tom DeReggi >RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > - Original Message - > From: Rick Smith > To: 'WISPA General List' > Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 7:27 PM > Subject: RE: [WISPA] Outsourced installations > > > the answer is hire a company to do installations for you. if your employee > just happens to own that company, well, oh well… > > > > It’s all invoices. Pay them as normal, and you don’t need to worry about > taxes, etc. Your employee (or sub’d company J…) does that on their own. > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi > Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 5:28 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations > > > > Where the problems come in are, that paying someone peice rate does NOT > NEGATE the requirement to pay overtime for Employees. > > Nor does it Negate the IRS's definition of what an EMployee is and a > contractor is. > > > > You have to restrict employees to work less than 40 hours or prepair to pay > time and a half for your peice rate. If an employee works 60 hours, and > completes three installs at in that week, at a peice rate of $100 each you > would pay the employee. > > > > $300 / 60 hours = $5 per hour. Overtime (20 hours) would be paid on $100 of > the pay. Addtional over time pay (half time) would be $50. > > Total paycheck would be $350. > > > > If it took them 60 hours to just get two installs done, they would be less > than the minimum wage. > > > > So there are two requirements > > 1) You must have a minimum pay, calcuated on the total number of hours that > THEY record working. > > 2) Must figure out someones average hourly rate on a weekly basis. This > complicates the accounting duties, and forces the account to custom pay each > employee each month. > > > > Two problems that can occur are... > > > > What if you want to pay an employee well, because they are really doing a > good job, and then one week they decide to go really slow? You end up paying > someone a huge amount of overtime unexpectedly! > > > > What we learned was that a employee's record of stated hours worked was > accurate. So paying peice rate does NOT NEGATE the need of the management to > record and manage the hours worked by an employee. We learned, that an > Employer is NOT responsible for their productivity the employer is. So if > they go to the movies all day without you knowing it, and work late to get > the job done, you still owe them the overtime, regardless of what flat peice > rate you negotiated. > > > > These are some of the reasons that we chose to put employees on Salary > instead of Piece rate. We live in a sue happy county. We just plan on > everyone taking way to long for an install, and put very low expectations on > what they are expected to accomplish, and we save on management and > accounting salaries. If they get done early, we have them do other things. > I won't talk about what happens if they don't get their work done, thats > handled on a case by case basis. So we chose salary for ease. IF they > consistently do well, they get a higher salary and stock options. It creates > a team effort, not a what do I get mentality. > > > > I don't know if that is the right decission or not, it really takes our guys > a long time to get things done. I often consider whether I should migrate > back to peice rate. > > > > > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > > > >- Original Message - > >From: Pete Davis > >T
RE: [WISPA] Outsourced installations
right – but I hand them the EQ, name and number and let them schedule their installs. They pay me $10 back if I hear from a customer that they didn’t make an appointment, and they credit me the install if I get a complaint serious enough from the customer.. J R From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 12:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations We actually did that for a while. It works out well, except that a contractor must provide his own tools and manage his own time. In other words, I cannot promise that he will be at Mr Smith's house at 2:00p on Wednesday. He has to be the one to schedule installs. It gets real fuzzy there. pd Rick Smith wrote: the answer is hire a company to do installations for you. if your employee just happens to own that company, well, oh well… It’s all invoices. Pay them as normal, and you don’t need to worry about taxes, etc. Your employee (or sub’d company J…) does that on their own. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 5:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations Where the problems come in are, that paying someone peice rate does NOT NEGATE the requirement to pay overtime for Employees. Nor does it Negate the IRS's definition of what an EMployee is and a contractor is. You have to restrict employees to work less than 40 hours or prepair to pay time and a half for your peice rate. If an employee works 60 hours, and completes three installs at in that week, at a peice rate of $100 each you would pay the employee. $300 / 60 hours = $5 per hour. Overtime (20 hours) would be paid on $100 of the pay. Addtional over time pay (half time) would be $50. Total paycheck would be $350. If it took them 60 hours to just get two installs done, they would be less than the minimum wage. So there are two requirements 1) You must have a minimum pay, calcuated on the total number of hours that THEY record working. 2) Must figure out someones average hourly rate on a weekly basis. This complicates the accounting duties, and forces the account to custom pay each employee each month. Two problems that can occur are... What if you want to pay an employee well, because they are really doing a good job, and then one week they decide to go really slow? You end up paying someone a huge amount of overtime unexpectedly! What we learned was that a employee's record of stated hours worked was accurate. So paying peice rate does NOT NEGATE the need of the management to record and manage the hours worked by an employee. We learned, that an Employer is NOT responsible for their productivity the employer is. So if they go to the movies all day without you knowing it, and work late to get the job done, you still owe them the overtime, regardless of what flat peice rate you negotiated. These are some of the reasons that we chose to put employees on Salary instead of Piece rate. We live in a sue happy county. We just plan on everyone taking way to long for an install, and put very low expectations on what they are expected to accomplish, and we save on management and accounting salaries. If they get done early, we have them do other things. I won't talk about what happens if they don't get their work done, thats handled on a case by case basis. So we chose salary for ease. IF they consistently do well, they get a higher salary and stock options. It creates a team effort, not a what do I get mentality. I don't know if that is the right decission or not, it really takes our guys a long time to get things done. I often consider whether I should migrate back to peice rate. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Pete Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 9:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations According to the DOL (department of Labor) an employee can be paid by the hour or for piece work (by the job) from http://www.dol.gov/compliance/guide/minwage.htm The Act requires employers of covered employees who are not otherwise exempt to pay these employees a minimum wage of not less than $5.15 an hour as of September 1, 1997. Youths under 20 years of age may be paid a minimum wage of not less than $4.25 an hour during the first 90 consecutive calendar days of employment with an employer. Employers may not displace any employee to hire someone at the youth minimum wage. Employers may pay employees on a piece‑rate basis, as long as they receive at least the equivalent of the
Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations
Until, the IRS decides that they can not be considered a contractor, because they do not do work for other people, and are not solely in control of how a job gets done. To do it legal, its pretty important that installer's company becomes Incorporated or LLC. Once they do that, its hard to keep control of what they do, and you loose benefits of Employing. Benefits of employing, does that exist ? :-) I guess the truth is, can you find installers willing to give up benefits of being an employee, and still be available when you need them like an employee? Tom DeReggiRapidDSL & Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Rick Smith To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 7:27 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Outsourced installations the answer is hire a company to do installations for you. if your employee just happens to own that company, well, oh well… It’s all invoices. Pay them as normal, and you don’t need to worry about taxes, etc. Your employee (or sub’d company J…) does that on their own. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggiSent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 5:28 PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations Where the problems come in are, that paying someone peice rate does NOT NEGATE the requirement to pay overtime for Employees. Nor does it Negate the IRS's definition of what an EMployee is and a contractor is. You have to restrict employees to work less than 40 hours or prepair to pay time and a half for your peice rate. If an employee works 60 hours, and completes three installs at in that week, at a peice rate of $100 each you would pay the employee. $300 / 60 hours = $5 per hour. Overtime (20 hours) would be paid on $100 of the pay. Addtional over time pay (half time) would be $50. Total paycheck would be $350. If it took them 60 hours to just get two installs done, they would be less than the minimum wage. So there are two requirements 1) You must have a minimum pay, calcuated on the total number of hours that THEY record working. 2) Must figure out someones average hourly rate on a weekly basis. This complicates the accounting duties, and forces the account to custom pay each employee each month. Two problems that can occur are... What if you want to pay an employee well, because they are really doing a good job, and then one week they decide to go really slow? You end up paying someone a huge amount of overtime unexpectedly! What we learned was that a employee's record of stated hours worked was accurate. So paying peice rate does NOT NEGATE the need of the management to record and manage the hours worked by an employee. We learned, that an Employer is NOT responsible for their productivity the employer is. So if they go to the movies all day without you knowing it, and work late to get the job done, you still owe them the overtime, regardless of what flat peice rate you negotiated. These are some of the reasons that we chose to put employees on Salary instead of Piece rate. We live in a sue happy county. We just plan on everyone taking way to long for an install, and put very low expectations on what they are expected to accomplish, and we save on management and accounting salaries. If they get done early, we have them do other things. I won't talk about what happens if they don't get their work done, thats handled on a case by case basis. So we chose salary for ease. IF they consistently do well, they get a higher salary and stock options. It creates a team effort, not a what do I get mentality. I don't know if that is the right decission or not, it really takes our guys a long time to get things done. I often consider whether I should migrate back to peice rate. Tom DeReggiRapidDSL & Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Pete Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 9:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations According to the DOL (department of Labor) an employee can be paid by the hour or for piece work (by the job)from http://www.dol.gov/compliance/guide/minwage.htm The Act requires employers of covered employees who are not otherwise exempt to pay these employees a minimum wage of not less than $5.15 an hour as of September 1, 1997. Youths under 20 years of age may be paid a minimum wage of not
Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations
We actually did that for a while. It works out well, except that a
contractor must provide his own tools and manage his own time. In other
words, I cannot promise that he will be at Mr Smith's house at 2:00p on
Wednesday. He has to be the one to schedule installs. It gets real
fuzzy there.
pd
Rick Smith wrote:
the
answer is hire a company to do installations for you. if
your employee just happens to own that company, well, oh well…
It’s
all invoices. Pay them as normal, and you don’t need to
worry about taxes, etc. Your employee (or sub’d company J…)
does
that on their own.
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Tom
DeReggi
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 5:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations
Where the
problems come in are, that paying
someone peice rate does NOT NEGATE the requirement to pay overtime for
Employees.
Nor does
it Negate the IRS's definition of
what an EMployee is and a contractor is.
You have
to restrict employees to work less
than 40 hours or prepair to pay time and a half for your peice rate.
If
an employee works 60 hours, and completes three installs at in that
week, at a
peice rate of $100 each you would pay the employee.
$300 / 60
hours = $5 per hour. Overtime (20
hours) would be paid on $100 of the pay. Addtional over time pay
(half time) would be $50.
Total
paycheck would be $350.
If it took
them 60 hours to just get two
installs done, they would be less than the minimum wage.
So there
are two requirements
1) You
must have a minimum pay,
calcuated on the total number of hours that THEY record working.
2) Must
figure out someones average
hourly rate on a weekly basis. This complicates the accounting duties,
and
forces the account to custom pay each employee each month.
Two
problems that can occur are...
What if
you want to pay an employee well,
because they are really doing a good job, and then one week they decide
to go
really slow? You end up paying someone a huge amount of overtime
unexpectedly!
What we
learned was that a employee's
record of stated hours worked was accurate. So paying peice rate does
NOT
NEGATE the need of the management to record and manage the hours
worked
by an employee. We learned, that an Employer is NOT responsible for
their
productivity the employer is. So if they go to the movies all day
without you knowing it, and work late to get the job done, you still
owe
them the overtime, regardless of what flat peice rate you negotiated.
These are
some of the reasons that we chose
to put employees on Salary instead of Piece rate. We live in a sue
happy
county. We just plan on everyone taking way to long for an install, and
put
very low expectations on what they are expected to accomplish, and we
save
on management and accounting salaries. If they get done early,
we have them do other things. I won't talk about what happens if they
don't get their work done, thats handled on a case by case basis. So
we
chose salary for ease. IF they consistently do well, they get a higher
salary and stock options. It creates a team effort, not a what do I
get
mentality.
I don't
know if that is the right decission
or not, it really takes our guys a long time to get things done. I
often consider
whether I should migrate back to peice rate.
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
-
Original Message -
From: Pete Davis
To: WISPA
General List
Sent: Saturday,
September 23, 2006 9:10 AM
Subject: Re:
[WISPA] Outsourced installations
According
to the DOL (department of Labor) an employee
can be paid by the hour or for piece work (by the job)
from http://www.dol.gov/compliance/guide/minwage.htm
The
Act requires employers of covered employees who are not otherwise
exempt to pay
these employees a minimum wage of not less than $5.15 an hour as of
September
1, 1997. Youths under 20 years of age may be paid a minimum wage of not
less
than $4.25 an hour during the first 90 consecutive calendar days of
employment
with an employer. Employers may not displace any employee to hire
someone at
the youth minimum wage.
Employers
may pay employees on a piece‑rate basis, as long as they receive at
least
the equivalent of the required minimum hourly wage rate. Employers of
tipped
employees (i.e., those who customarily and regularly receive more than
$30 a
month in tips) may consider such tips as part of their wages, but
employers
must pay a direct wage of at least $2.13 per hour if they claim a tip
credit.
They must
RE: [WISPA] Outsourced installations
the answer is hire a company to do installations for you. if your employee just happens to own that company, well, oh well… It’s all invoices. Pay them as normal, and you don’t need to worry about taxes, etc. Your employee (or sub’d company J…) does that on their own. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 5:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations Where the problems come in are, that paying someone peice rate does NOT NEGATE the requirement to pay overtime for Employees. Nor does it Negate the IRS's definition of what an EMployee is and a contractor is. You have to restrict employees to work less than 40 hours or prepair to pay time and a half for your peice rate. If an employee works 60 hours, and completes three installs at in that week, at a peice rate of $100 each you would pay the employee. $300 / 60 hours = $5 per hour. Overtime (20 hours) would be paid on $100 of the pay. Addtional over time pay (half time) would be $50. Total paycheck would be $350. If it took them 60 hours to just get two installs done, they would be less than the minimum wage. So there are two requirements 1) You must have a minimum pay, calcuated on the total number of hours that THEY record working. 2) Must figure out someones average hourly rate on a weekly basis. This complicates the accounting duties, and forces the account to custom pay each employee each month. Two problems that can occur are... What if you want to pay an employee well, because they are really doing a good job, and then one week they decide to go really slow? You end up paying someone a huge amount of overtime unexpectedly! What we learned was that a employee's record of stated hours worked was accurate. So paying peice rate does NOT NEGATE the need of the management to record and manage the hours worked by an employee. We learned, that an Employer is NOT responsible for their productivity the employer is. So if they go to the movies all day without you knowing it, and work late to get the job done, you still owe them the overtime, regardless of what flat peice rate you negotiated. These are some of the reasons that we chose to put employees on Salary instead of Piece rate. We live in a sue happy county. We just plan on everyone taking way to long for an install, and put very low expectations on what they are expected to accomplish, and we save on management and accounting salaries. If they get done early, we have them do other things. I won't talk about what happens if they don't get their work done, thats handled on a case by case basis. So we chose salary for ease. IF they consistently do well, they get a higher salary and stock options. It creates a team effort, not a what do I get mentality. I don't know if that is the right decission or not, it really takes our guys a long time to get things done. I often consider whether I should migrate back to peice rate. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Pete Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 9:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations According to the DOL (department of Labor) an employee can be paid by the hour or for piece work (by the job) from http://www.dol.gov/compliance/guide/minwage.htm The Act requires employers of covered employees who are not otherwise exempt to pay these employees a minimum wage of not less than $5.15 an hour as of September 1, 1997. Youths under 20 years of age may be paid a minimum wage of not less than $4.25 an hour during the first 90 consecutive calendar days of employment with an employer. Employers may not displace any employee to hire someone at the youth minimum wage. Employers may pay employees on a piece‑rate basis, as long as they receive at least the equivalent of the required minimum hourly wage rate. Employers of tipped employees (i.e., those who customarily and regularly receive more than $30 a month in tips) may consider such tips as part of their wages, but employers must pay a direct wage of at least $2.13 per hour if they claim a tip credit. They must also meet certain other conditions. I suppose that if these guys manage to spend over 20 (10 hrs each) hrs on every install for the pay period, then I would have to adjust their pay to bring them up to minimum wage. That hasn't been a problem. They average about 3 hrs/install including drive time. This is about twice as fast as installs got done back when they were paid hourly. This is a win/win/win solution as I see it. The employees like the method for making extra money. The customers like
Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations
Where the problems come in are, that paying someone peice rate does NOT NEGATE the requirement to pay overtime for Employees. Nor does it Negate the IRS's definition of what an EMployee is and a contractor is. You have to restrict employees to work less than 40 hours or prepair to pay time and a half for your peice rate. If an employee works 60 hours, and completes three installs at in that week, at a peice rate of $100 each you would pay the employee. $300 / 60 hours = $5 per hour. Overtime (20 hours) would be paid on $100 of the pay. Addtional over time pay (half time) would be $50. Total paycheck would be $350. If it took them 60 hours to just get two installs done, they would be less than the minimum wage. So there are two requirements 1) You must have a minimum pay, calcuated on the total number of hours that THEY record working. 2) Must figure out someones average hourly rate on a weekly basis. This complicates the accounting duties, and forces the account to custom pay each employee each month. Two problems that can occur are... What if you want to pay an employee well, because they are really doing a good job, and then one week they decide to go really slow? You end up paying someone a huge amount of overtime unexpectedly! What we learned was that a employee's record of stated hours worked was accurate. So paying peice rate does NOT NEGATE the need of the management to record and manage the hours worked by an employee. We learned, that an Employer is NOT responsible for their productivity the employer is. So if they go to the movies all day without you knowing it, and work late to get the job done, you still owe them the overtime, regardless of what flat peice rate you negotiated. These are some of the reasons that we chose to put employees on Salary instead of Piece rate. We live in a sue happy county. We just plan on everyone taking way to long for an install, and put very low expectations on what they are expected to accomplish, and we save on management and accounting salaries. If they get done early, we have them do other things. I won't talk about what happens if they don't get their work done, thats handled on a case by case basis. So we chose salary for ease. IF they consistently do well, they get a higher salary and stock options. It creates a team effort, not a what do I get mentality. I don't know if that is the right decission or not, it really takes our guys a long time to get things done. I often consider whether I should migrate back to peice rate. Tom DeReggiRapidDSL & Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Pete Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 9:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations According to the DOL (department of Labor) an employee can be paid by the hour or for piece work (by the job)from http://www.dol.gov/compliance/guide/minwage.htm The Act requires employers of covered employees who are not otherwise exempt to pay these employees a minimum wage of not less than $5.15 an hour as of September 1, 1997. Youths under 20 years of age may be paid a minimum wage of not less than $4.25 an hour during the first 90 consecutive calendar days of employment with an employer. Employers may not displace any employee to hire someone at the youth minimum wage. Employers may pay employees on a piece‑rate basis, as long as they receive at least the equivalent of the required minimum hourly wage rate. Employers of tipped employees (i.e., those who customarily and regularly receive more than $30 a month in tips) may consider such tips as part of their wages, but employers must pay a direct wage of at least $2.13 per hour if they claim a tip credit. They must also meet certain other conditions.I suppose that if these guys manage to spend over 20 (10 hrs each) hrs on every install for the pay period, then I would have to adjust their pay to bring them up to minimum wage. That hasn't been a problem. They average about 3 hrs/install including drive time. This is about twice as fast as installs got done back when they were paid hourly. This is a win/win/win solution as I see it. The employees like the method for making extra money. The customers like the techs getting in and out in a reasonable time. I like getting 2 or 3 installs/day vs 1/day like we got back when techs got paid per hour. We treat their install pay just like regular income. We withhold the withholdings, deal with the social security, etc. Lincoln Welder mfg company in Ohio pays EVERY employee piece-wage only. You might get $4/ea to wind motors, $2/ea to install a switch, $7/ea to screw wheels on, $1.50 to inspect parts, etc. They have withholdings, pay social security, etc. They even clock in
Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations
That answered my comment. As long as they are employees for everything, there is no problem that I am aware of to pay some piece-rate and some hourly rate. Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net -- Original Message --- From: Pete Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: WISPA General List Sent: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 08:10:17 -0500 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations > According to the DOL (department of Labor) an employee can be paid by the hour or for piece work (by the job) > > from http://www.dol.gov/compliance/guide/minwage.htm > > The Act requires employers of covered employees who are not otherwise exempt to pay these employees a minimum wage of not less than $5.15 an hour as of September 1, 1997. Youths under 20 years of age may be paid a minimum wage of not less than $4.25 an hour during the first 90 consecutive calendar days of employment with an employer. Employers may not displace any employee to hire someone at the youth minimum wage. > Employers may pay employees on a piece‑rate basis, as long as they receive at least the equivalent of the required minimum hourly wage rate. Employers of tipped employees (i.e., those who customarily and regularly receive more than $30 a month in tips) may consider such tips as part of their wages, but employers must pay a direct wage of at least $2.13 per hour if they claim a tip credit. They must also meet certain other conditions. I suppose that if these guys manage to spend over 20 (10 hrs each) hrs on every install for the pay period, then I would have to adjust their pay to bring them up to minimum wage. That hasn't been a problem. They average about 3 hrs/install including drive time. This is about twice as fast as installs got done back when they were paid hourly. This is a win/win/win solution as I see it. The employees like the method for making extra money. The customers like the techs getting in and out in a reasonable time. I like getting 2 or 3 installs/day vs 1/day like we got back when techs got paid per hour. > > We treat their install pay just like regular income. We withhold the withholdings, deal with the social security, etc. > > Lincoln Welder mfg company in Ohio pays EVERY employee piece-wage only. You might get $4/ea to wind motors, $2/ea to install a switch, $7/ea to screw wheels on, $1.50 to inspect parts, etc. > They have withholdings, pay social security, etc. They even clock in/out, to insure to OSHA that no employee is working more than 120 hrs/week but this method has been in place for years and works very well. The employees love it and the unions hate it. It insures that the new guy in training gets up to speed in a reasonable time or washes out. The guy who has been there for 10 years can handle 10 $4 units/hr can make decent money. > > Pete Davis > NoDial.net > > Scott Reed wrote: You might want to check with your accountant. I doubt the IRS is going to let you "contract" with people you also employ. You may be liable for FICA, etc. for all the installs they have done. > > Scott Reed > Owner > NewWays > Wireless Networking > Network Design, Installation and Administration > www.nwwnet.net > > -- Original Message --- > From: Pete Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], WISPA General List > Sent: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 07:40:09 -0500 > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations > > > We outsource most of our installs to our employees. The two techs usually go out together, and split the $100. Its not unheard of for my techs to make more money on a busy week than I take in my salary, and I am an owner. > > > > They make $x/hr to do service calls, uninstalls, AP maintenance, etc and if they can keep those caught up, we schedule an install (usually 1 or 2 /day for 2 techs). They are OFF the clock for installs, and get $100/install. We provide the van, the tools, the gas, the CPE, and all consumables (staples, caulk, cat5, ends, jacks, faceplates, etc). That keeps them from usually turning in overtime. It gives them an incentive for completing installs in a timely manner (2 hr install = $25/hr/tech). Any service calls resulting from a faulty/sloppy install in the first 30 days result in the installer techs going on site to fix it on THEIR time, so they have an incentive to get it done right the first time around. > > > > We have a few other local IT/phone/security system consultants who will occasionally bring us a customer and offer to install them, since they are an existing consulting customer for them anyway and usually selling them a custom network/phone system/security system/audio
Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations
Id never said they couldn't be paid by the hour. I used to work for a roofing company, and they were regularly questioned about they way they paid their employees. If you have someone work in your office at for 6 hours, and then they go and "flat-rate" a 3 hour job, that looks like overtime to me, but then I am in California, and the labor laws here are more stringent than in a lot of other places. John >-Original Message- >From: Pete Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 06:10 AM >To: 'WISPA General List' >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations > >-- >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations
According to the DOL (department of Labor) an employee can be paid by the hour or for piece work (by the job) from http://www.dol.gov/compliance/guide/minwage.htm The Act requires employers of covered employees who are not otherwise exempt to pay these employees a minimum wage of not less than $5.15 an hour as of September 1, 1997. Youths under 20 years of age may be paid a minimum wage of not less than $4.25 an hour during the first 90 consecutive calendar days of employment with an employer. Employers may not displace any employee to hire someone at the youth minimum wage. Employers may pay employees on a piece‑rate basis, as long as they receive at least the equivalent of the required minimum hourly wage rate. Employers of tipped employees (i.e., those who customarily and regularly receive more than $30 a month in tips) may consider such tips as part of their wages, but employers must pay a direct wage of at least $2.13 per hour if they claim a tip credit. They must also meet certain other conditions. I suppose that if these guys manage to spend over 20 (10 hrs each) hrs on every install for the pay period, then I would have to adjust their pay to bring them up to minimum wage. That hasn't been a problem. They average about 3 hrs/install including drive time. This is about twice as fast as installs got done back when they were paid hourly. This is a win/win/win solution as I see it. The employees like the method for making extra money. The customers like the techs getting in and out in a reasonable time. I like getting 2 or 3 installs/day vs 1/day like we got back when techs got paid per hour. We treat their install pay just like regular income. We withhold the withholdings, deal with the social security, etc. Lincoln Welder mfg company in Ohio pays EVERY employee piece-wage only. You might get $4/ea to wind motors, $2/ea to install a switch, $7/ea to screw wheels on, $1.50 to inspect parts, etc. They have withholdings, pay social security, etc. They even clock in/out, to insure to OSHA that no employee is working more than 120 hrs/week but this method has been in place for years and works very well. The employees love it and the unions hate it. It insures that the new guy in training gets up to speed in a reasonable time or washes out. The guy who has been there for 10 years can handle 10 $4 units/hr can make decent money. Pete Davis NoDial.net Scott Reed wrote: You might want to check with your accountant. I doubt the IRS is going to let you "contract" with people you also employ. You may be liable for FICA, etc. for all the installs they have done. Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net -- Original Message --- From: Pete Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], WISPA General List Sent: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 07:40:09 -0500 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations > We outsource most of our installs to our employees. The two techs usually go out together, and split the $100. Its not unheard of for my techs to make more money on a busy week than I take in my salary, and I am an owner. > > They make $x/hr to do service calls, uninstalls, AP maintenance, etc and if they can keep those caught up, we schedule an install (usually 1 or 2 /day for 2 techs). They are OFF the clock for installs, and get $100/install. We provide the van, the tools, the gas, the CPE, and all consumables (staples, caulk, cat5, ends, jacks, faceplates, etc). That keeps them from usually turning in overtime. It gives them an incentive for completing installs in a timely manner (2 hr install = $25/hr/tech). Any service calls resulting from a faulty/sloppy install in the first 30 days result in the installer techs going on site to fix it on THEIR time, so they have an incentive to get it done right the first time around. > > We have a few other local IT/phone/security system consultants who will occasionally bring us a customer and offer to install them, since they are an existing consulting customer for them anyway and usually selling them a custom network/phone system/security system/audio system anyway. We will usually give them $125 or $150 and provide the CPE and minimal technical support. They will bring us the contract/customer worksheet for our files, and we don't even have to go on site. Since we usually charge $149 for the setup, we often let the consultant charge whatever he wants, and keep it, and put in as many custom cable runs and terminations as they can sell. We just start picking up the monthly billing. > > Those are good relationships to have. > > Pete Davis > NoDial.net > > chris cooper wrote: > > Im sure this has been covered before….. > > Have any of you outsourced installations? If so, has it been a positive experience, how much do you pay a contrac
Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations
Yes, and, if for some reason they take too long on a job such that the "flat-rate" billing is less than Minimum wage, you get into hot water John >-Original Message- >From: Scott Reed [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 05:46 AM >To: 'WISPA General List' >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations > >-- >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations
Hi Mario, To answer your questions: 1) Tranzeo radios, all POE, all models 2) Terrain is mostly flat, some rolling hills, mostly rural 3) Grounding is required in the contract 4) We provide the mounting hardware. Normally, we send satellite arms with the installer, but if it takes more we provide a tripod or non-pen. Their price doesn't change. 5) We do a cat-5 run through an outside wall. If they need more wiring, it is $35/hour. I would be happy to share my intaller's agreement. Just hit me off list. Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mario Pommier wrote: Matt, Pete, Can you state what kinds of radios these installs involve? are these PoE radios, what brand, what kind of terrain you're installing in, rural/metro area? Is grounding being done? What if they install a non-pen mount? Same price? Where does install end: i.e. do they ahve to do an indoor run to where the network equipment is? It would help to gauge what's involved. Thanks. BTW, we haven't gone to outsourcing, not yet anyway. Mario Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: I started out with having my own installers, vans, equipment etc., but have switched over to outsourcing almost all of our installations. At this time last year, I had two different outsourced installers going at the same time. We did 80 installs last September and our cost was a little bit more than what we were paying our own installers. The real difference came when we had a slow month (30-40 installs) and we only had to pay for the installs that were completed. One of the installers we worked with left to get a higher paying job, and it worked out well for all of us. Except for the fact that we have had to go out and redo about 25 of his installs because he was mounting too low in the houses or putting radios behind trees in the winter. That kind of sucked. The other installers has a little bit of a language barrier, being from Peru - and was kind of sloppy with his installs at first. Over the long run, he has turned out to be great, as he has stepped up and done everything we have asked him to do and improved the quality of his work considerably along the way. I now give him everything that I can, including service calls. It has been a much better situation to be able to outsource to a good contractor. Our successful install rate is much higher and we have been able to focus on running and growing our network instead of stupid stuff. I am paying $90 to $120 per install (depending on mileage, some places are 300 miles round trip), $35 per service call and $35 for de-installs. That is working very well for me. Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pete Davis wrote: We outsource most of our installs to our employees. The two techs usually go out together, and split the $100. Its not unheard of for my techs to make more money on a busy week than I take in my salary, and I am an owner. They make $x/hr to do service calls, uninstalls, AP maintenance, etc and if they can keep those caught up, we schedule an install (usually 1 or 2 /day for 2 techs). They are OFF the clock for installs, and get $100/install. We provide the van, the tools, the gas, the CPE, and all consumables (staples, caulk, cat5, ends, jacks, faceplates, etc). That keeps them from usually turning in overtime. It gives them an incentive for completing installs in a timely manner (2 hr install = $25/hr/tech). Any service calls resulting from a faulty/sloppy install in the first 30 days result in the installer techs going on site to fix it on THEIR time, so they have an incentive to get it done right the first time around. We have a few other local IT/phone/security system consultants who will occasionally bring us a customer and offer to install them, since they are an existing consulting customer for them anyway and usually selling them a custom network/phone system/security system/audio system anyway. We will usually give them $125 or $150 and provide the CPE and minimal technical support. They will bring us the contract/customer worksheet for our files, and we don't even have to go on site. Since we usually charge $149 for the setup, we often let the consultant charge whatever he wants, and keep it, and put in as many custom cable runs and terminations as they can sell. We just start picking up the monthly billing. Those are good relationships to have. Pete Davis NoDial.net chris cooper wrote: Im sure this has been covered before….. Have any of you outsourced installations? If so, has it been a positive experience, how much do you pay a contractor? Thanks Chris No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.7/454 - Release Date: 9/21/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations
Matt, Pete, Can you state what kinds of radios these installs involve? are these PoE radios, what brand, what kind of terrain you're installing in, rural/metro area? Is grounding being done? What if they install a non-pen mount? Same price? Where does install end: i.e. do they ahve to do an indoor run to where the network equipment is? It would help to gauge what's involved. Thanks. BTW, we haven't gone to outsourcing, not yet anyway. Mario Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: I started out with having my own installers, vans, equipment etc., but have switched over to outsourcing almost all of our installations. At this time last year, I had two different outsourced installers going at the same time. We did 80 installs last September and our cost was a little bit more than what we were paying our own installers. The real difference came when we had a slow month (30-40 installs) and we only had to pay for the installs that were completed. One of the installers we worked with left to get a higher paying job, and it worked out well for all of us. Except for the fact that we have had to go out and redo about 25 of his installs because he was mounting too low in the houses or putting radios behind trees in the winter. That kind of sucked. The other installers has a little bit of a language barrier, being from Peru - and was kind of sloppy with his installs at first. Over the long run, he has turned out to be great, as he has stepped up and done everything we have asked him to do and improved the quality of his work considerably along the way. I now give him everything that I can, including service calls. It has been a much better situation to be able to outsource to a good contractor. Our successful install rate is much higher and we have been able to focus on running and growing our network instead of stupid stuff. I am paying $90 to $120 per install (depending on mileage, some places are 300 miles round trip), $35 per service call and $35 for de-installs. That is working very well for me. Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pete Davis wrote: We outsource most of our installs to our employees. The two techs usually go out together, and split the $100. Its not unheard of for my techs to make more money on a busy week than I take in my salary, and I am an owner. They make $x/hr to do service calls, uninstalls, AP maintenance, etc and if they can keep those caught up, we schedule an install (usually 1 or 2 /day for 2 techs). They are OFF the clock for installs, and get $100/install. We provide the van, the tools, the gas, the CPE, and all consumables (staples, caulk, cat5, ends, jacks, faceplates, etc). That keeps them from usually turning in overtime. It gives them an incentive for completing installs in a timely manner (2 hr install = $25/hr/tech). Any service calls resulting from a faulty/sloppy install in the first 30 days result in the installer techs going on site to fix it on THEIR time, so they have an incentive to get it done right the first time around. We have a few other local IT/phone/security system consultants who will occasionally bring us a customer and offer to install them, since they are an existing consulting customer for them anyway and usually selling them a custom network/phone system/security system/audio system anyway. We will usually give them $125 or $150 and provide the CPE and minimal technical support. They will bring us the contract/customer worksheet for our files, and we don't even have to go on site. Since we usually charge $149 for the setup, we often let the consultant charge whatever he wants, and keep it, and put in as many custom cable runs and terminations as they can sell. We just start picking up the monthly billing. Those are good relationships to have. Pete Davis NoDial.net chris cooper wrote: Im sure this has been covered before….. Have any of you outsourced installations? If so, has it been a positive experience, how much do you pay a contractor? Thanks Chris No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.7/454 - Release Date: 9/21/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Outsourced installations
We have two outsourced installers. They are paid $100/install. They supply their own tools, gas, insurance and vehicle. We furnish supplies they need. They also fill in their time with Dish and DirecTV installs. Some sourced from our company, some sourced from other shops. Once you figure the cost of vans, fuel, maintenance, insurance, FICA, liability, tools, and everything else, it makes more sense to me to continue using outsourced help. Rick Harnish President OnlyInternet Broadband & Wireless, Inc. 260-827-2482 Founding Member of WISPA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 11:02 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations I started out with having my own installers, vans, equipment etc., but have switched over to outsourcing almost all of our installations. At this time last year, I had two different outsourced installers going at the same time. We did 80 installs last September and our cost was a little bit more than what we were paying our own installers. The real difference came when we had a slow month (30-40 installs) and we only had to pay for the installs that were completed. One of the installers we worked with left to get a higher paying job, and it worked out well for all of us. Except for the fact that we have had to go out and redo about 25 of his installs because he was mounting too low in the houses or putting radios behind trees in the winter. That kind of sucked. The other installers has a little bit of a language barrier, being from Peru - and was kind of sloppy with his installs at first. Over the long run, he has turned out to be great, as he has stepped up and done everything we have asked him to do and improved the quality of his work considerably along the way. I now give him everything that I can, including service calls. It has been a much better situation to be able to outsource to a good contractor. Our successful install rate is much higher and we have been able to focus on running and growing our network instead of stupid stuff. I am paying $90 to $120 per install (depending on mileage, some places are 300 miles round trip), $35 per service call and $35 for de-installs. That is working very well for me. Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pete Davis wrote: > We outsource most of our installs to our employees. The two techs > usually go out together, and split the $100. Its not unheard of for my > techs to make more money on a busy week than I take in my salary, and > I am an owner. > > They make $x/hr to do service calls, uninstalls, AP maintenance, etc > and if they can keep those caught up, we schedule an install (usually > 1 or 2 /day for 2 techs). They are OFF the clock for installs, and get > $100/install. We provide the van, the tools, the gas, the CPE, and all > consumables (staples, caulk, cat5, ends, jacks, faceplates, etc). That > keeps them from usually turning in overtime. It gives them an > incentive for completing installs in a timely manner (2 hr install = > $25/hr/tech). Any service calls resulting from a faulty/sloppy install > in the first 30 days result in the installer techs going on site to > fix it on THEIR time, so they have an incentive to get it done right > the first time around. > > > We have a few other local IT/phone/security system consultants who > will occasionally bring us a customer and offer to install them, since > they are an existing consulting customer for them anyway and usually > selling them a custom network/phone system/security system/audio > system anyway. We will usually give them $125 or $150 and provide the > CPE and minimal technical support. They will bring us the > contract/customer worksheet for our files, and we don't even have to > go on site. Since we usually charge $149 for the setup, we often let > the consultant charge whatever he wants, and keep it, and put in as > many custom cable runs and terminations as they can sell. We just > start picking up the monthly billing. > > Those are good relationships to have. > > Pete Davis > NoDial.net > > > > chris cooper wrote: >> >> Im sure this has been covered before... >> >> Have any of you outsourced installations? If so, has it been a >> positive experience, how much do you pay a contractor? >> >> Thanks >> >> Chris >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.7/454 - Release Date: 9/21/2006 >> > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations
I started out with having my own installers, vans, equipment etc., but have switched over to outsourcing almost all of our installations. At this time last year, I had two different outsourced installers going at the same time. We did 80 installs last September and our cost was a little bit more than what we were paying our own installers. The real difference came when we had a slow month (30-40 installs) and we only had to pay for the installs that were completed. One of the installers we worked with left to get a higher paying job, and it worked out well for all of us. Except for the fact that we have had to go out and redo about 25 of his installs because he was mounting too low in the houses or putting radios behind trees in the winter. That kind of sucked. The other installers has a little bit of a language barrier, being from Peru - and was kind of sloppy with his installs at first. Over the long run, he has turned out to be great, as he has stepped up and done everything we have asked him to do and improved the quality of his work considerably along the way. I now give him everything that I can, including service calls. It has been a much better situation to be able to outsource to a good contractor. Our successful install rate is much higher and we have been able to focus on running and growing our network instead of stupid stuff. I am paying $90 to $120 per install (depending on mileage, some places are 300 miles round trip), $35 per service call and $35 for de-installs. That is working very well for me. Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pete Davis wrote: We outsource most of our installs to our employees. The two techs usually go out together, and split the $100. Its not unheard of for my techs to make more money on a busy week than I take in my salary, and I am an owner. They make $x/hr to do service calls, uninstalls, AP maintenance, etc and if they can keep those caught up, we schedule an install (usually 1 or 2 /day for 2 techs). They are OFF the clock for installs, and get $100/install. We provide the van, the tools, the gas, the CPE, and all consumables (staples, caulk, cat5, ends, jacks, faceplates, etc). That keeps them from usually turning in overtime. It gives them an incentive for completing installs in a timely manner (2 hr install = $25/hr/tech). Any service calls resulting from a faulty/sloppy install in the first 30 days result in the installer techs going on site to fix it on THEIR time, so they have an incentive to get it done right the first time around. We have a few other local IT/phone/security system consultants who will occasionally bring us a customer and offer to install them, since they are an existing consulting customer for them anyway and usually selling them a custom network/phone system/security system/audio system anyway. We will usually give them $125 or $150 and provide the CPE and minimal technical support. They will bring us the contract/customer worksheet for our files, and we don't even have to go on site. Since we usually charge $149 for the setup, we often let the consultant charge whatever he wants, and keep it, and put in as many custom cable runs and terminations as they can sell. We just start picking up the monthly billing. Those are good relationships to have. Pete Davis NoDial.net chris cooper wrote: Im sure this has been covered before….. Have any of you outsourced installations? If so, has it been a positive experience, how much do you pay a contractor? Thanks Chris No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.7/454 - Release Date: 9/21/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations
You might want to check with your accountant. I doubt the IRS is going to let you "contract" with people you also employ. You may be liable for FICA, etc. for all the installs they have done. Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net -- Original Message --- From: Pete Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], WISPA General List Sent: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 07:40:09 -0500 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations > We outsource most of our installs to our employees. The two techs usually go out together, and split the $100. Its not unheard of for my techs to make more money on a busy week than I take in my salary, and I am an owner. > > They make $x/hr to do service calls, uninstalls, AP maintenance, etc and if they can keep those caught up, we schedule an install (usually 1 or 2 /day for 2 techs). They are OFF the clock for installs, and get $100/install. We provide the van, the tools, the gas, the CPE, and all consumables (staples, caulk, cat5, ends, jacks, faceplates, etc). That keeps them from usually turning in overtime. It gives them an incentive for completing installs in a timely manner (2 hr install = $25/hr/tech). Any service calls resulting from a faulty/sloppy install in the first 30 days result in the installer techs going on site to fix it on THEIR time, so they have an incentive to get it done right the first time around. > > We have a few other local IT/phone/security system consultants who will occasionally bring us a customer and offer to install them, since they are an existing consulting customer for them anyway and usually selling them a custom network/phone system/security system/audio system anyway. We will usually give them $125 or $150 and provide the CPE and minimal technical support. They will bring us the contract/customer worksheet for our files, and we don't even have to go on site. Since we usually charge $149 for the setup, we often let the consultant charge whatever he wants, and keep it, and put in as many custom cable runs and terminations as they can sell. We just start picking up the monthly billing. > > Those are good relationships to have. > > Pete Davis > NoDial.net > > chris cooper wrote: > > Im sure this has been covered before .. > > Have any of you outsourced installations? If so, has it been a positive experience, how much do you pay a contractor? > > Thanks > Chris No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.7/454 - Release Date: 9/21/2006 --- End of Original Message --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations
We outsource most of our installs to our employees. The two techs usually go out together, and split the $100. Its not unheard of for my techs to make more money on a busy week than I take in my salary, and I am an owner. They make $x/hr to do service calls, uninstalls, AP maintenance, etc and if they can keep those caught up, we schedule an install (usually 1 or 2 /day for 2 techs). They are OFF the clock for installs, and get $100/install. We provide the van, the tools, the gas, the CPE, and all consumables (staples, caulk, cat5, ends, jacks, faceplates, etc). That keeps them from usually turning in overtime. It gives them an incentive for completing installs in a timely manner (2 hr install = $25/hr/tech). Any service calls resulting from a faulty/sloppy install in the first 30 days result in the installer techs going on site to fix it on THEIR time, so they have an incentive to get it done right the first time around. We have a few other local IT/phone/security system consultants who will occasionally bring us a customer and offer to install them, since they are an existing consulting customer for them anyway and usually selling them a custom network/phone system/security system/audio system anyway. We will usually give them $125 or $150 and provide the CPE and minimal technical support. They will bring us the contract/customer worksheet for our files, and we don't even have to go on site. Since we usually charge $149 for the setup, we often let the consultant charge whatever he wants, and keep it, and put in as many custom cable runs and terminations as they can sell. We just start picking up the monthly billing. Those are good relationships to have. Pete Davis NoDial.net chris cooper wrote: Im sure this has been covered before….. Have any of you outsourced installations? If so, has it been a positive experience, how much do you pay a contractor? Thanks Chris No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.7/454 - Release Date: 9/21/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Outsourced installations
Im sure this has been covered before….. Have any of you outsourced installations? If so, has it been a positive experience, how much do you pay a contractor? Thanks Chris -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
