Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
You hit the nail on the head. Lower frequencies means bigger antennas...lots bigger. If you think the 900 sectors are large, just wait until you get to 700, or as someone said earlier, 100MHz. Ever seen a ham tower with a long wire stretched between the tower and a couple of trees? Now think about the uplink. What kind of antenna do you think will be needed at the customer premise? Indoor penetration is nice, but think about those old TV sets with rabbit earsand they were receive only. So what if you can propagate 20 miles...how do you get the signal back. Low frequency comes with it's own technical problems. We need a better data standard for starters (802.20 would have been far superior to WiMax IMHO), and some clean spectrum would be nice, but not necessarily low frequency. Cameron Patrick Leary wrote: 700 MHz is not the panacea some might think. Technically, it is a nightmare for bi-directional services. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 9:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Imagine WISPs using 700mhz to service their customers. No stimulus package needed. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com wrote: Bingo! Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Oct 8, 2009, at 12:15 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: I think the major barrier to wisp growth is lack of quality, NLOS spectrum. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marco Coelho Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 11:21 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Patrick, Not being one for gov money We have excellent credit. We have that because we only expand at a rate the will allow funding (new business) to cover our costs. So the cycle goes: 1. Build out X number of Towers. 2. Market X number of Areas. 3. Install Customers to X*Y until well funded. Repeat. I think a lot of the companies that take stimulus money are going to go under in the long run. They will go like the dot-coms. Build build Build Ah shit no revenue! That being said, we are vertical, all workers work for the company. That is the only way you can control quality. Good employees are very hard to find. For every 100-200 applications/resumes, maybe 10 are worth talking to seriously. You're lucky to find 1 that is worth hiring. Always a ray of sunshine! Marco Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 7:25 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Patrick, #1- Labor: There is very little skilled resources here. #2- Funding: Especially for labor. Normal financing channels are available but I will not take on too much debt at one time. #3- Time: There is little extra time to dedicate towards expansion versus daily operations. Notes- Employees: Too small to enjoy such a luxury. Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. Technologies: Proprietary equipment are a bit too expensive unless you buy CPE in 100 packs. Even then, the AP's are still expensive. -RickG On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Regardless of your tech choice -- Moto, 802.11-based, WiMAX or other, I am interested to know what are the greatest barriers to growth and why? Some possibilities: Is it funding and if so, are your normal channels for money frozen or otherwise gone? Is it competition? If so, how specifically. Are you constrained from hiring due to high cost of employee benefits (e.g. health insurance)? Are you stalled waiting for response from your stimulus application? Are you stalled trying to defend against someone else's stimulus application that would include your market? Are the current technologies too expensive or technicall inadequate to deliver what you need to compete? Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
We run around 10 full time. More temp. More if I can find quality people. I could use another 5 today. This business is all about cash positive. Unlike the government, we can't print our own money and devalue our country. Even if you're taking money from the outside (vc, bank, etc) when all is said and done, you must take in with your left hand more than you put out with your right. The dot-com formula is fine for a bunch of teeny boopers. Not for real businesses. Marco On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 11:22 AM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: I can certainly respect your pay-as-you-grow approach. So how many employees do you have Marco? Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marco Coelho Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 8:21 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Patrick, Not being one for gov money We have excellent credit. We have that because we only expand at a rate the will allow funding (new business) to cover our costs. So the cycle goes: 1. Build out X number of Towers. 2. Market X number of Areas. 3. Install Customers to X*Y until well funded. Repeat. I think a lot of the companies that take stimulus money are going to go under in the long run. They will go like the dot-coms. Build build Build Ah shit no revenue! That being said, we are vertical, all workers work for the company. That is the only way you can control quality. Good employees are very hard to find. For every 100-200 applications/resumes, maybe 10 are worth talking to seriously. You're lucky to find 1 that is worth hiring. Always a ray of sunshine! Marco Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 7:25 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Patrick, #1- Labor: There is very little skilled resources here. #2- Funding: Especially for labor. Normal financing channels are available but I will not take on too much debt at one time. #3- Time: There is little extra time to dedicate towards expansion versus daily operations. Notes- Employees: Too small to enjoy such a luxury. Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. Technologies: Proprietary equipment are a bit too expensive unless you buy CPE in 100 packs. Even then, the AP's are still expensive. -RickG On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Regardless of your tech choice -- Moto, 802.11-based, WiMAX or other, I am interested to know what are the greatest barriers to growth and why? Some possibilities: Is it funding and if so, are your normal channels for money frozen or otherwise gone? Is it competition? If so, how specifically. Are you constrained from hiring due to high cost of employee benefits (e.g. health insurance)? Are you stalled waiting for response from your stimulus application? Are you stalled trying to defend against someone else's stimulus application that would include your market? Are the current technologies too expensive or technicall inadequate to deliver what you need to compete? Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
On Oct 11, 2009, at 1:33 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: - Original Message - From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth On Oct 9, 2009, at 9:18 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I didn't apply for two main reasons. 1: they want the whole company and don't tell you when (if ever) you'll get it back. You can't sell the company without approval for 10 years. The general terms of that approval were that you couldn't be asking for so little for the company that it resulted in a windfall for the buyer and the buyer had to maintain the terms of the contract you sign with the government to get the money. I keep hearing that, but I don't remember seeing it anywhere in the NOFA. It's not in the ARRA, and I asked that specific question in Billings. I got a shrug of the shoulders. IIRC, it's in the FAQ. Originally the statements (and I think this is what the NOFA said) were for the life of the equipment being purchased. However, that was later clarified to be 10 years. I'm not sure 10 years is better than life but shrug. It isn't unreasonable. The final terms of this requirement are worked out in the contract you negotiate once you're awarded the funds (you don't actually get anything just because you won the award...you have to sign a mutual contract first). As I understand it, it's far more than that. You can't sell any assets without government approval either. Want to trade in that old install van? Make sure you clear it with the boss first. What about old gear that you upgrade from? Just think about how hard it would be to get anything done if you had to ask permission for nearly all of it, from a desk jocky, in DC. You can sell any asset that didn't come from the grant. If you had that van before, or bought the van not-on-the-grant, then you do with it as you please. If they paid for the equipment, it's only fair and right that they make sure you're not just buying it, and then selling it to make a profit that has nothing to do with providing the service they are paying you to provide. They have some ownership rights on the equipment you're trying to sell since they paid for at least half, and up to 80%, of its cost. As a taxpayer, I just don't see this as an unreasonable attempt to prevent fraud or unjust enrichment at my expense. I'd be upset if something like this *weren't* in the requirements. 2: My areas are already covered better than what's allowed under the grants. We've done a good job in the past and our reward is government funded potential competition, gotta love that one. Yeah, having government funded competition sucks. So does having competition that is cross-subsidized by phone service revenues. Or television revenues. Or investors that don't know what they are doing. In the end there isn't anything really special about the funding coming from the Feds versus many other sources we have to compete around. It hurts the same either way. Oh yeah, 3: If you take Obama money you are required to wholesale access to the network at fair and reasonable rates. You're said this before and you've been told before this is not the case. Yest it is. It's in the NOFA. You have to open your network at fair and reasonable rates. I asked about this in Billings too. Again, I was told to submit the question in writing as there is no definition of fair and reasonable already established. You're conflating two separate statements in the NOFA and you apparently either didn't ask a clear question or you didn't ask someone who understood the question (neither are your fault of course...if it wasn't clear to you it's hard to ask a clear question, and you can't help the understanding of the designated responder to your question) or the answer hadn't been determined yet. In any case, there are TWO separate issues. The first is interconnection. The second is wholesale. You DO NOT HAVE TO OPEN YOUR NETWORK TO WHOLESALE ACCESS. In fact, in the application it is two separate questions. The first you have to answer yes to or you cannot apply. The second clearly states it's optional, but worth extra credit under BTOP if you agree to do it. You are required to support Interconnection at reasonable rates on the part of the network you built with government funds. For a small provider that's an almost completely meaningless requirement. Really? Lets say I do a county wide network. I double my coverage zone, or more, with grant funds. I now have to allow interconnection, wholesale, You do not have to offer wholesale to anyone whatsoever if that's your preference. And the two (interconnection and wholesale) are NOT equivalent. The only reason I'm saying that *again* is because the statement about wholesale could
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
- Original Message - From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 5:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth On Oct 11, 2009, at 1:33 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: - Original Message - From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth On Oct 9, 2009, at 9:18 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I didn't apply for two main reasons. 1: they want the whole company and don't tell you when (if ever) you'll get it back. You can't sell the company without approval for 10 years. The general terms of that approval were that you couldn't be asking for so little for the company that it resulted in a windfall for the buyer and the buyer had to maintain the terms of the contract you sign with the government to get the money. I keep hearing that, but I don't remember seeing it anywhere in the NOFA. It's not in the ARRA, and I asked that specific question in Billings. I got a shrug of the shoulders. IIRC, it's in the FAQ. Originally the statements (and I think this is what the NOFA said) were for the life of the equipment being purchased. However, that was later clarified to be 10 years. I'm not sure 10 years is better than life but shrug. It isn't unreasonable. The final terms of this requirement are worked out in the contract you negotiate once you're awarded the funds (you don't actually get anything just because you won the award...you have to sign a mutual contract first). As I understand it, it's far more than that. You can't sell any assets without government approval either. Want to trade in that old install van? Make sure you clear it with the boss first. What about old gear that you upgrade from? Just think about how hard it would be to get anything done if you had to ask permission for nearly all of it, from a desk jocky, in DC. You can sell any asset that didn't come from the grant. If you had that van before, or bought the van not-on-the-grant, then you do with it as you please. If they paid for the equipment, it's only fair and right that they make sure you're not just buying it, and then selling it to make a profit that has nothing to do with providing the service they are paying you to provide. They have some ownership rights on the equipment you're trying to sell since they paid for at least half, and up to 80%, of its cost. As a taxpayer, I just don't see this as an unreasonable attempt to prevent fraud or unjust enrichment at my expense. I'd be upset if something like this *weren't* in the requirements. Hmmm, they told us, in billings, that they take a 1st lein holder possition. That means that they own everything, not just grant funded portions. Did the lien holder part change? 2: My areas are already covered better than what's allowed under the grants. We've done a good job in the past and our reward is government funded potential competition, gotta love that one. Yeah, having government funded competition sucks. So does having competition that is cross-subsidized by phone service revenues. Or television revenues. Or investors that don't know what they are doing. In the end there isn't anything really special about the funding coming from the Feds versus many other sources we have to compete around. It hurts the same either way. Oh yeah, 3: If you take Obama money you are required to wholesale access to the network at fair and reasonable rates. You're said this before and you've been told before this is not the case. Yest it is. It's in the NOFA. You have to open your network at fair and reasonable rates. I asked about this in Billings too. Again, I was told to submit the question in writing as there is no definition of fair and reasonable already established. You're conflating two separate statements in the NOFA and you apparently either didn't ask a clear question or you didn't ask someone who understood the question (neither are your fault of course...if it wasn't clear to you it's hard to ask a clear question, and you can't help the understanding of the designated responder to your question) or the answer hadn't been determined yet. In any case, there are TWO separate issues. The first is interconnection. The second is wholesale. You DO NOT HAVE TO OPEN YOUR NETWORK TO WHOLESALE ACCESS. In fact, in the application it is two separate questions. The first you have to answer yes to or you cannot apply. The second clearly states it's optional, but worth extra credit under BTOP if you agree to do it. So what do we call it when I want to interconnect with your last mile network? I'll need access to the AP and the bandwidth that it's capable of delivering. Could this be a case of a rose by any other name is still a rose? You are required to support
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
On Oct 9, 2009, at 9:18 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I didn't apply for two main reasons. 1: they want the whole company and don't tell you when (if ever) you'll get it back. You can't sell the company without approval for 10 years. The general terms of that approval were that you couldn't be asking for so little for the company that it resulted in a windfall for the buyer and the buyer had to maintain the terms of the contract you sign with the government to get the money. It isn't unreasonable. The final terms of this requirement are worked out in the contract you negotiate once you're awarded the funds (you don't actually get anything just because you won the award...you have to sign a mutual contract first). 2: My areas are already covered better than what's allowed under the grants. We've done a good job in the past and our reward is government funded potential competition, gotta love that one. Yeah, having government funded competition sucks. So does having competition that is cross-subsidized by phone service revenues. Or television revenues. Or investors that don't know what they are doing. In the end there isn't anything really special about the funding coming from the Feds versus many other sources we have to compete around. It hurts the same either way. Oh yeah, 3: If you take Obama money you are required to wholesale access to the network at fair and reasonable rates. You're said this before and you've been told before this is not the case. You are required to support Interconnection at reasonable rates on the part of the network you built with government funds. For a small provider that's an almost completely meaningless requirement. For large multi-region buildouts, that's got some meaning. You were NOT, however, required to support wholesale. That's a bonus. Anyone know what that really means? Me neither. I figure if someone comes here I'll just make them sell to me at good rates and I'll not have to deal with the grant hassles. You can interconnect with their network. If they are small it presumably means you set up a direction connection with them so that your traffic goes directly to them and vice versa without needing to transit to the outside world. Interconnection wasn't defined really well in the NOFA however. It could also mean another provider could ask to use your network to reach the outside world. However, you get to negotiate for that access on reasonable terms, which means you could make a profit on whatever it is you provide them. Unless you agreed to arbitration (an option in the application), you couldn't be forced to do it really (since it'd be easy enough to set unworkable terms). A starting point for the negotiation would probably have been what would access cost from the big guys to your location? since that's presumably a reasonable place to be price wise. Chuck marlon - Original Message - From: Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 9:42 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
- Original Message - From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth On Oct 9, 2009, at 9:18 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I didn't apply for two main reasons. 1: they want the whole company and don't tell you when (if ever) you'll get it back. You can't sell the company without approval for 10 years. The general terms of that approval were that you couldn't be asking for so little for the company that it resulted in a windfall for the buyer and the buyer had to maintain the terms of the contract you sign with the government to get the money. I keep hearing that, but I don't remember seeing it anywhere in the NOFA. It's not in the ARRA, and I asked that specific question in Billings. I got a shrug of the shoulders. It isn't unreasonable. The final terms of this requirement are worked out in the contract you negotiate once you're awarded the funds (you don't actually get anything just because you won the award...you have to sign a mutual contract first). As I understand it, it's far more than that. You can't sell any assets without government approval either. Want to trade in that old install van? Make sure you clear it with the boss first. What about old gear that you upgrade from? Just think about how hard it would be to get anything done if you had to ask permission for nearly all of it, from a desk jocky, in DC. 2: My areas are already covered better than what's allowed under the grants. We've done a good job in the past and our reward is government funded potential competition, gotta love that one. Yeah, having government funded competition sucks. So does having competition that is cross-subsidized by phone service revenues. Or television revenues. Or investors that don't know what they are doing. In the end there isn't anything really special about the funding coming from the Feds versus many other sources we have to compete around. It hurts the same either way. Oh yeah, 3: If you take Obama money you are required to wholesale access to the network at fair and reasonable rates. You're said this before and you've been told before this is not the case. Yest it is. It's in the NOFA. You have to open your network at fair and reasonable rates. I asked about this in Billings too. Again, I was told to submit the question in writing as there is no definition of fair and reasonable already established. You are required to support Interconnection at reasonable rates on the part of the network you built with government funds. For a small provider that's an almost completely meaningless requirement. Really? Lets say I do a county wide network. I double my coverage zone, or more, with grant funds. I now have to allow interconnection, wholesale, access to anyone that wants it, in at least half of my network. What does that do to my net revenue there? We don't know because we have NO guidance as to what they'll force us to sell services at to our competitors. For large multi-region buildouts, that's got some meaning. Not at all. If ANY of my near by competitors get grant money to install systems, I'll be using the interconnection requirement as a way to expand MY coverage at NO cost to me. You were NOT, however, required to support wholesale. That's a bonus. Um, what's the difference between interconnection and wholesale? Anyone know what that really means? Me neither. I figure if someone comes here I'll just make them sell to me at good rates and I'll not have to deal with the grant hassles. You can interconnect with their network. If they are small it presumably means you set up a direction connection with them so that your traffic goes directly to them and vice versa without needing to transit to the outside world. H Interconnection wasn't defined really well in the NOFA however. It could also mean another provider could ask to use your network to reach the outside world. However, you get to negotiate for that access on reasonable terms, which means you could make a profit on whatever it is you provide them. Unless you agreed to arbitration (an option in the application), you couldn't be forced to do it really (since it'd be easy enough to set unworkable terms). A starting point for the negotiation would probably have been what would access cost from the big guys to your location? since that's presumably a reasonable place to be price wise. Unworkable terms certainly don't seen fair and reasonable to me. The whole thing is just so convoluted, open to multiple interpretations etc. Shrug Anyway, the original question was why *I* didn't apply. Those are still my answers. marlon Chuck marlon - Original Message - From: Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 9
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
They created a great system. Maintenance is another matter. I'm aware of what its like being a small player where the big companies are trying to squash you to protect their turf. But you are making a living, meager though it may be. Until you become a CLEC, your access will be expensive. Becoming a CLEC brings on a whole host of other troubles. --Curtis RickG wrote: Huh? The high system? http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003226851_fragile26.html http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2008/06/part_one_america_is_falling_ap.html http://www.infiniteunknown.net/2008/05/09/us-infrastructure-is-falling-apart/ As far as making a living upon the internet, most of the WISP's I meet make very little (including myself) and pay through the nose for access ourselves. -RickG On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 2:17 PM, Curtis Maurand cmaur...@xyonet.com wrote: Not going there on this list, but there is a long list its done right including funding the development of the Internet upon which you make your living. I would add the highway system as well. --Curtis Josh Luthman wrote: Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Seriously? Name one thing the government has done right in the last 200 years. The list should start and end with the military and that can be argued either way. The only thing the government could do to help is to not do anything at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.comwrote: Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Okay, okay. A good description of people unhappy with the government. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWfh6sGyso Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 5:15 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth And that's pretty much what they said about the Romans! Had to add it.. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of chris cooper Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 5:03 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Having spent some time in some rugged spots in the world I can say by comparison that Im happy with some things the government does. Clean, potable water is nice as are decent roads, fire protection and lack of Malaria. It aint all bad. Chris -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Vander Dussen Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 3:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Well said! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 9:56 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Seriously? Name one thing the government has done right in the last 200 years. The list should start and end with the military and that can be argued either way. The only thing the government could do to help is to not do anything at all. Josh Luthman WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Just keep in mind that in exchange for the governmental help, these utilities were made into monopolies. If you look at pictures of the streets of a large city from the turn of the century you'd see masses of wires everywhere from the multiple phone companies and electric providers. A business had to have 4 or 5 phones installed to have access to the competing networks. Each utility was eventually consolidated into one provider per service. We now have multiple paths to the internet in lots of areas and there isn't much of a reason to scale it down to one and become a classic utility. I'm sure the government would love to have that happen, easier to deal with for them. Giving a large chunk of cash to one regional provider would be a step in that direction (Broadband Stimulus) but would still not kill the rest of us unless they eventually regulated out competition. If the idea was indeed to do a large scale build out to provide access to everyone, who would be the provider and who would eventually own the infrastructure of such a system? Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scottie Arnett Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 10:19 PM To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Brian makes good points, as long as the FCC would allow any ISP the rights to this: It's time to do the same for the internet and broadband. Not just one time funding for build outs, but also money to help sustain the operations over time in markets that just can't do it otherwise. The Rural Telephone Cooperatives rule the roost in my competitive area(with telephone and internet) and they should not be the only ones getting this funding. The FCC has already done that with the rural exemption clauses in the TA of 1996, along with other telecom wide Act's passages. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com Reply-To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 13:38:37 -0400 Part of the issue for the rural markets is the actual household density. There are some areas that on their own, will not sustain a viable business model even if you have grant money to fund the initial build out. The internet should be viewed as a utility. When other utility technologies were new (electricity and telephone) the government fought with this same exact problem. For the telephone industry they came up with the universal services fund (USF). Areas that qualified for this funding received monthly subsidies to balance out the costs to make it a viable business model in those areas that did not otherwise make the case for private enterprise to do it alone. The Rural Electrification Act (REA) also did things to solve these problems. It's time to do the same for the internet and broadband. Not just one time funding for build outs, but also money to help sustain the operations over time in markets that just can't do it otherwise. Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
I want to offer mobile and fixed broadband via WiMAX. I am having trouble getting access to quality spectrum. I have cash in hand ready to buy equipment TODAY. I have towers. I have potential customers. I have excess bandwidth capacity ready to roll. SPECTRUM...SPECTRUM...SPECTRUM. I hope that is clear enough! By the way, I have had enough trouble relating to the spectrum crunch in this country that I will be deploying FTTH whether I get spectrum now or not. I have learned my lesson. That lesson is that the United States government does not really care about the average WISP or rural America's access to broadband. If they really cared they would be setting up programs to help us including programs to get us access to more quality spectrum. I do not consider the current whitespaces rules to be a genuine attempt to help and the ARRA program is biased toward larger players only IMO. It almost appears they want us to fail. John Scrivner On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Regardless of your tech choice -- Moto, 802.11-based, WiMAX or other, I am interested to know what are the greatest barriers to growth and why? Some possibilities: Is it funding and if so, are your normal channels for money frozen or otherwise gone? Is it competition? If so, how specifically. Are you constrained from hiring due to high cost of employee benefits (e.g. health insurance)? Are you stalled waiting for response from your stimulus application? Are you stalled trying to defend against someone else's stimulus application that would include your market? Are the current technologies too expensive or technicall inadequate to deliver what you need to compete? Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
I can certainly respect your pay-as-you-grow approach. So how many employees do you have Marco? Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marco Coelho Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 8:21 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Patrick, Not being one for gov money We have excellent credit. We have that because we only expand at a rate the will allow funding (new business) to cover our costs. So the cycle goes: 1. Build out X number of Towers. 2. Market X number of Areas. 3. Install Customers to X*Y until well funded. Repeat. I think a lot of the companies that take stimulus money are going to go under in the long run. They will go like the dot-coms. Build build Build Ah shit no revenue! That being said, we are vertical, all workers work for the company. That is the only way you can control quality. Good employees are very hard to find. For every 100-200 applications/resumes, maybe 10 are worth talking to seriously. You're lucky to find 1 that is worth hiring. Always a ray of sunshine! Marco Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 7:25 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Patrick, #1- Labor: There is very little skilled resources here. #2- Funding: Especially for labor. Normal financing channels are available but I will not take on too much debt at one time. #3- Time: There is little extra time to dedicate towards expansion versus daily operations. Notes- Employees: Too small to enjoy such a luxury. Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. Technologies: Proprietary equipment are a bit too expensive unless you buy CPE in 100 packs. Even then, the AP's are still expensive. -RickG On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Regardless of your tech choice -- Moto, 802.11-based, WiMAX or other, I am interested to know what are the greatest barriers to growth and why? Some possibilities: Is it funding and if so, are your normal channels for money frozen or otherwise gone? Is it competition? If so, how specifically. Are you constrained from hiring due to high cost of employee benefits (e.g. health insurance)? Are you stalled waiting for response from your stimulus application? Are you stalled trying to defend against someone else's stimulus application that would include your market? Are the current technologies too expensive or technicall inadequate to deliver what you need to compete? Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Interesting. What would be your holy grail spectrum and how much? And yet, you still chose to become a WISP and you have been at it for years Gino. So what keeps you going? Surely you have optimism or else you'd have sold out by now? Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 9:20 AM To: WISPA General List Cc: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Bingo! Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Oct 8, 2009, at 12:15 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: I think the major barrier to wisp growth is lack of quality, NLOS spectrum. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marco Coelho Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 11:21 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Patrick, Not being one for gov money We have excellent credit. We have that because we only expand at a rate the will allow funding (new business) to cover our costs. So the cycle goes: 1. Build out X number of Towers. 2. Market X number of Areas. 3. Install Customers to X*Y until well funded. Repeat. I think a lot of the companies that take stimulus money are going to go under in the long run. They will go like the dot-coms. Build build Build Ah shit no revenue! That being said, we are vertical, all workers work for the company. That is the only way you can control quality. Good employees are very hard to find. For every 100-200 applications/resumes, maybe 10 are worth talking to seriously. You're lucky to find 1 that is worth hiring. Always a ray of sunshine! Marco Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 7:25 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Patrick, #1- Labor: There is very little skilled resources here. #2- Funding: Especially for labor. Normal financing channels are available but I will not take on too much debt at one time. #3- Time: There is little extra time to dedicate towards expansion versus daily operations. Notes- Employees: Too small to enjoy such a luxury. Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. Technologies: Proprietary equipment are a bit too expensive unless you buy CPE in 100 packs. Even then, the AP's are still expensive. -RickG On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Regardless of your tech choice -- Moto, 802.11-based, WiMAX or other, I am interested to know what are the greatest barriers to growth and why? Some possibilities: Is it funding and if so, are your normal channels for money frozen or otherwise gone? Is it competition? If so, how specifically. Are you constrained from hiring due to high cost of employee benefits (e.g. health insurance)? Are you stalled waiting for response from your stimulus application? Are you stalled trying to defend against someone else's stimulus application that would include your market? Are the current technologies too expensive or technicall inadequate to deliver what you need to compete? Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036 --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
700 MHz is not the panacea some might think. Technically, it is a nightmare for bi-directional services. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 9:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Imagine WISPs using 700mhz to service their customers. No stimulus package needed. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com wrote: Bingo! Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Oct 8, 2009, at 12:15 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: I think the major barrier to wisp growth is lack of quality, NLOS spectrum. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marco Coelho Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 11:21 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Patrick, Not being one for gov money We have excellent credit. We have that because we only expand at a rate the will allow funding (new business) to cover our costs. So the cycle goes: 1. Build out X number of Towers. 2. Market X number of Areas. 3. Install Customers to X*Y until well funded. Repeat. I think a lot of the companies that take stimulus money are going to go under in the long run. They will go like the dot-coms. Build build Build Ah shit no revenue! That being said, we are vertical, all workers work for the company. That is the only way you can control quality. Good employees are very hard to find. For every 100-200 applications/resumes, maybe 10 are worth talking to seriously. You're lucky to find 1 that is worth hiring. Always a ray of sunshine! Marco Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 7:25 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Patrick, #1- Labor: There is very little skilled resources here. #2- Funding: Especially for labor. Normal financing channels are available but I will not take on too much debt at one time. #3- Time: There is little extra time to dedicate towards expansion versus daily operations. Notes- Employees: Too small to enjoy such a luxury. Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. Technologies: Proprietary equipment are a bit too expensive unless you buy CPE in 100 packs. Even then, the AP's are still expensive. -RickG On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Regardless of your tech choice -- Moto, 802.11-based, WiMAX or other, I am interested to know what are the greatest barriers to growth and why? Some possibilities: Is it funding and if so, are your normal channels for money frozen or otherwise gone? Is it competition? If so, how specifically. Are you constrained from hiring due to high cost of employee benefits (e.g. health insurance)? Are you stalled waiting for response from your stimulus application? Are you stalled trying to defend against someone else's stimulus application that would include your market? Are the current technologies too expensive or technicall inadequate to deliver what you need to compete? Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036 --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Mike, While foolish of me to get political, I'd argue that the greatest entitlements in this country these days are extended to big business, either through subsidy, shielding from accountability, protection from competition, bailing out with no or few strings (direct and literal transfer of our money to them), favorable tax breaks/structures at local state and federal levels, or even direct earmarks... Ah, the wonders of purchased influence. Now if you are an American-based small business (as we are incidentally), you are supposed to get by with a lift-yourself-up-by-the-bootstraps pep talk from your politicians as they stroke you with platitudes and praise for your hard work. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 10:20 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Whatever happened to the American work ethic? What ever happened to the American way of working towards the future? Both have been replaced by a want-it-now instant gratification mentality. Traditionally, a small business could become a big business by grit, determination, and hard work. It is wrong that we have become such an entitlement ready nation; if the government pays me I'll do it. I also further the idea that release of public spectrum in the UHF bands would be a great shot in the arm towards the goal of ubiquitous broadband. Cheaper than a stimulus package too. Both the government and American business have become fond of short term returns at the expense of long term gain and stability. Just how much of this stimulus money will have found its way to bringing ubiquitous broadband to the masses? I don't think it is going to solve the problem, or guarantee long term stability. Giveaways have always been fraught with fraud, cronyism and fat. While not actually a dance with the devil, submission to governmental scrutiny for the sake of subsidized expansion of your business is, in my opinion, short sighted. My ideals are more in line with wisdom handed down through the ages: The government is best which governs least. Mike At 11:42 AM 10/8/2009, you wrote: Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
For us it's mostly time and money. Which in the end means money. The gear is affordable. It's working well these days. Reliability is, over all, way up from 5 or 6 years ago. We could expand into more areas, but the costs to get INTO them are too high for the number of customers there. Most of our competition is doing a pretty good job, expanding into those areas would cost too much over the long run. Right now small amounts of money are fairly easy to come by. But with the stimulus crap going on I'm going nice and slow till I know what other money will be put into areas around me. One of the hardest things to deal with right now is spectrum. 2.4 is TRASHED. We're functional, but it's a lot more work to keep things running well than it should be. I could start moving more things to 5.x but I'm afraid I'll end up with the exact same mess there in a few years if I use the cheap wifi based stuff. shrug. At least we're moving more and more of the backhaul over. It's pretty amazing how much of a difference that's making in performance and manageability. We're also in the final planning stages of switching the network over to routed AP's. We're working on authentication mechanisms so we can do static DHCP. One thing that you as manufacturers do that makes my life harder is proprietary systems. The offer better customer retention etc. We often have better performance out of the gear. But I look at what Trango just did. We don't have much of their ptmp gear out, but we don't dare even try to put more. Now I'm overbuilding where that gear used to be so we can run someone else's system. It's hard to put products. The long term viability of the company is a factor. Much more so for ptmp systems that are not standards based. Know what would be the best thing anyone could do? You guys build a GREAT WISP centric protocol and then release it to everyone else. Better yet, everyone get together and use the best of everyone's systems. I'll bet WISPA would be happy to coordinate the effort like we did for our CALEA system. Stop waiting on the IEEE. They have gotten too big and burecratic to act in a timely fashion. We should have had Wi-MAX done a very very long time ago. By pass them, just like we all bypassed the telco to bring broadband to our communities. marlon - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 8:37 AM Subject: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Regardless of your tech choice -- Moto, 802.11-based, WiMAX or other, I am interested to know what are the greatest barriers to growth and why? Some possibilities: Is it funding and if so, are your normal channels for money frozen or otherwise gone? Is it competition? If so, how specifically. Are you constrained from hiring due to high cost of employee benefits (e.g. health insurance)? Are you stalled waiting for response from your stimulus application? Are you stalled trying to defend against someone else's stimulus application that would include your market? Are the current technologies too expensive or technicall inadequate to deliver what you need to compete? Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
I also see that Ubiquiti is moving away from the open source of their products. The AirMax isn't compatible with any other gear if running that feature and the firmware isn't open source for the new products. It didn't take them long to jump on that train. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 1:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth For us it's mostly time and money. Which in the end means money. The gear is affordable. It's working well these days. Reliability is, over all, way up from 5 or 6 years ago. We could expand into more areas, but the costs to get INTO them are too high for the number of customers there. Most of our competition is doing a pretty good job, expanding into those areas would cost too much over the long run. Right now small amounts of money are fairly easy to come by. But with the stimulus crap going on I'm going nice and slow till I know what other money will be put into areas around me. One of the hardest things to deal with right now is spectrum. 2.4 is TRASHED. We're functional, but it's a lot more work to keep things running well than it should be. I could start moving more things to 5.x but I'm afraid I'll end up with the exact same mess there in a few years if I use the cheap wifi based stuff. shrug. At least we're moving more and more of the backhaul over. It's pretty amazing how much of a difference that's making in performance and manageability. We're also in the final planning stages of switching the network over to routed AP's. We're working on authentication mechanisms so we can do static DHCP. One thing that you as manufacturers do that makes my life harder is proprietary systems. The offer better customer retention etc. We often have better performance out of the gear. But I look at what Trango just did. We don't have much of their ptmp gear out, but we don't dare even try to put more. Now I'm overbuilding where that gear used to be so we can run someone else's system. It's hard to put products. The long term viability of the company is a factor. Much more so for ptmp systems that are not standards based. Know what would be the best thing anyone could do? You guys build a GREAT WISP centric protocol and then release it to everyone else. Better yet, everyone get together and use the best of everyone's systems. I'll bet WISPA would be happy to coordinate the effort like we did for our CALEA system. Stop waiting on the IEEE. They have gotten too big and burecratic to act in a timely fashion. We should have had Wi-MAX done a very very long time ago. By pass them, just like we all bypassed the telco to bring broadband to our communities. marlon - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 8:37 AM Subject: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Regardless of your tech choice -- Moto, 802.11-based, WiMAX or other, I am interested to know what are the greatest barriers to growth and why? Some possibilities: Is it funding and if so, are your normal channels for money frozen or otherwise gone? Is it competition? If so, how specifically. Are you constrained from hiring due to high cost of employee benefits (e.g. health insurance)? Are you stalled waiting for response from your stimulus application? Are you stalled trying to defend against someone else's stimulus application that would include your market? Are the current technologies too expensive or technicall inadequate to deliver what you need to compete? Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
I didn't apply for two main reasons. 1: they want the whole company and don't tell you when (if ever) you'll get it back. 2: My areas are already covered better than what's allowed under the grants. We've done a good job in the past and our reward is government funded potential competition, gotta love that one. Oh yeah, 3: If you take Obama money you are required to wholesale access to the network at fair and reasonable rates. Anyone know what that really means? Me neither. I figure if someone comes here I'll just make them sell to me at good rates and I'll not have to deal with the grant hassles. marlon - Original Message - From: Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 9:42 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Anyone remember how licenses were handed out for UHF or VHF two way systems? Any reason a guy can't use that mechanism again? I don't know how much spectrum was available per channel. If it were even 500khz that's enough to move a lot of data these days. marlon - Original Message - From: Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 10:46 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth I also further the idea that release of public spectrum in the UHF bands would be a great shot in the arm towards the goal of ubiquitous broadband. Cheaper than a stimulus package too. OK. We are getting somewhere. You do want the government to do something. You want the government to open up the UHF bands for wireless data services. How should this be done? Should the spectrum be free or sold at auction to the highest bidder? Unlicensed, licensed, or semi-licensed? What restrictions, if any, should be placed on the devices using the spectrum - power output, cognitive radios, etc.? What about interference with wireless mics? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Try 12.5 kHz. Channel size Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 18:31:16 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Anyone remember how licenses were handed out for UHF or VHF two way systems? Any reason a guy can't use that mechanism again? I don't know how much spectrum was available per channel. If it were even 500khz that's enough to move a lot of data these days. marlon - Original Message - From: Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 10:46 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth I also further the idea that release of public spectrum in the UHF bands would be a great shot in the arm towards the goal of ubiquitous broadband. Cheaper than a stimulus package too. OK. We are getting somewhere. You do want the government to do something. You want the government to open up the UHF bands for wireless data services. How should this be done? Should the spectrum be free or sold at auction to the highest bidder? Unlicensed, licensed, or semi-licensed? What restrictions, if any, should be placed on the devices using the spectrum - power output, cognitive radios, etc.? What about interference with wireless mics? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
The UHF business band is STILL very busy. It occupies 450 -470 MHz. Small town comms and most towns without a trunking system still use UHF. Oh yeah, it propagates very well too. Mike At 08:31 PM 10/9/2009, you wrote: Anyone remember how licenses were handed out for UHF or VHF two way systems? Any reason a guy can't use that mechanism again? I don't know how much spectrum was available per channel. If it were even 500khz that's enough to move a lot of data these days. marlon - Original Message - From: Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 10:46 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth I also further the idea that release of public spectrum in the UHF bands would be a great shot in the arm towards the goal of ubiquitous broadband. Cheaper than a stimulus package too. OK. We are getting somewhere. You do want the government to do something. You want the government to open up the UHF bands for wireless data services. How should this be done? Should the spectrum be free or sold at auction to the highest bidder? Unlicensed, licensed, or semi-licensed? What restrictions, if any, should be placed on the devices using the spectrum - power output, cognitive radios, etc.? What about interference with wireless mics? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
I'd imagine the 1 GHz spectrum would be best if we can get power. Decent propagation and small enough antennas for frequency reuse. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 11:26 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth 700 MHz is not the panacea some might think. Technically, it is a nightmare for bi-directional services. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 9:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Imagine WISPs using 700mhz to service their customers. No stimulus package needed. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com wrote: Bingo! Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Oct 8, 2009, at 12:15 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: I think the major barrier to wisp growth is lack of quality, NLOS spectrum. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marco Coelho Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 11:21 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Patrick, Not being one for gov money We have excellent credit. We have that because we only expand at a rate the will allow funding (new business) to cover our costs. So the cycle goes: 1. Build out X number of Towers. 2. Market X number of Areas. 3. Install Customers to X*Y until well funded. Repeat. I think a lot of the companies that take stimulus money are going to go under in the long run. They will go like the dot-coms. Build build Build Ah shit no revenue! That being said, we are vertical, all workers work for the company. That is the only way you can control quality. Good employees are very hard to find. For every 100-200 applications/resumes, maybe 10 are worth talking to seriously. You're lucky to find 1 that is worth hiring. Always a ray of sunshine! Marco Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 7:25 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Patrick, #1- Labor: There is very little skilled resources here. #2- Funding: Especially for labor. Normal financing channels are available but I will not take on too much debt at one time. #3- Time: There is little extra time to dedicate towards expansion versus daily operations. Notes- Employees: Too small to enjoy such a luxury. Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. Technologies: Proprietary equipment are a bit too expensive unless you buy CPE in 100 packs. Even then, the AP's are still expensive. -RickG On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Regardless of your tech choice -- Moto, 802.11-based, WiMAX or other, I am interested to know what are the greatest barriers to growth and why? Some possibilities: Is it funding and if so, are your normal channels for money frozen or otherwise gone? Is it competition? If so, how specifically. Are you constrained from hiring due to high cost of employee benefits (e.g. health insurance)? Are you stalled waiting for response from your stimulus application? Are you stalled trying to defend against someone else's stimulus application that would include your market? Are the current technologies too expensive or technicall inadequate to deliver what you need to compete? Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Patrick, Not being one for gov money We have excellent credit. We have that because we only expand at a rate the will allow funding (new business) to cover our costs. So the cycle goes: 1. Build out X number of Towers. 2. Market X number of Areas. 3. Install Customers to X*Y until well funded. Repeat. I think a lot of the companies that take stimulus money are going to go under in the long run. They will go like the dot-coms. Build build Build Ah shit no revenue! That being said, we are vertical, all workers work for the company. That is the only way you can control quality. Good employees are very hard to find. For every 100-200 applications/resumes, maybe 10 are worth talking to seriously. You're lucky to find 1 that is worth hiring. Always a ray of sunshine! Marco Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 7:25 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Patrick, #1- Labor: There is very little skilled resources here. #2- Funding: Especially for labor. Normal financing channels are available but I will not take on too much debt at one time. #3- Time: There is little extra time to dedicate towards expansion versus daily operations. Notes- Employees: Too small to enjoy such a luxury. Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. Technologies: Proprietary equipment are a bit too expensive unless you buy CPE in 100 packs. Even then, the AP's are still expensive. -RickG On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Regardless of your tech choice -- Moto, 802.11-based, WiMAX or other, I am interested to know what are the greatest barriers to growth and why? Some possibilities: Is it funding and if so, are your normal channels for money frozen or otherwise gone? Is it competition? If so, how specifically. Are you constrained from hiring due to high cost of employee benefits (e.g. health insurance)? Are you stalled waiting for response from your stimulus application? Are you stalled trying to defend against someone else's stimulus application that would include your market? Are the current technologies too expensive or technicall inadequate to deliver what you need to compete? Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Yeah, what he said! I'm gonna work REALLY hard to pay down debt and put some money in the bank over the next 3 or 4 years. I want to be ready to pick those companies up. marlon - Original Message - From: Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 8:20 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Patrick, Not being one for gov money We have excellent credit. We have that because we only expand at a rate the will allow funding (new business) to cover our costs. So the cycle goes: 1. Build out X number of Towers. 2. Market X number of Areas. 3. Install Customers to X*Y until well funded. Repeat. I think a lot of the companies that take stimulus money are going to go under in the long run. They will go like the dot-coms. Build build Build Ah shit no revenue! That being said, we are vertical, all workers work for the company. That is the only way you can control quality. Good employees are very hard to find. For every 100-200 applications/resumes, maybe 10 are worth talking to seriously. You're lucky to find 1 that is worth hiring. Always a ray of sunshine! Marco Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 7:25 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Patrick, #1- Labor: There is very little skilled resources here. #2- Funding: Especially for labor. Normal financing channels are available but I will not take on too much debt at one time. #3- Time: There is little extra time to dedicate towards expansion versus daily operations. Notes- Employees: Too small to enjoy such a luxury. Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. Technologies: Proprietary equipment are a bit too expensive unless you buy CPE in 100 packs. Even then, the AP's are still expensive. -RickG On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Regardless of your tech choice -- Moto, 802.11-based, WiMAX or other, I am interested to know what are the greatest barriers to growth and why? Some possibilities: Is it funding and if so, are your normal channels for money frozen or otherwise gone? Is it competition? If so, how specifically. Are you constrained from hiring due to high cost of employee benefits (e.g. health insurance)? Are you stalled waiting for response from your stimulus application? Are you stalled trying to defend against someone else's stimulus application that would include your market? Are the current technologies too expensive or technicall inadequate to deliver what you need to compete? Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
I think the major barrier to wisp growth is lack of quality, NLOS spectrum. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marco Coelho Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 11:21 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Patrick, Not being one for gov money We have excellent credit. We have that because we only expand at a rate the will allow funding (new business) to cover our costs. So the cycle goes: 1. Build out X number of Towers. 2. Market X number of Areas. 3. Install Customers to X*Y until well funded. Repeat. I think a lot of the companies that take stimulus money are going to go under in the long run. They will go like the dot-coms. Build build Build Ah shit no revenue! That being said, we are vertical, all workers work for the company. That is the only way you can control quality. Good employees are very hard to find. For every 100-200 applications/resumes, maybe 10 are worth talking to seriously. You're lucky to find 1 that is worth hiring. Always a ray of sunshine! Marco Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 7:25 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Patrick, #1- Labor: There is very little skilled resources here. #2- Funding: Especially for labor. Normal financing channels are available but I will not take on too much debt at one time. #3- Time: There is little extra time to dedicate towards expansion versus daily operations. Notes- Employees: Too small to enjoy such a luxury. Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. Technologies: Proprietary equipment are a bit too expensive unless you buy CPE in 100 packs. Even then, the AP's are still expensive. -RickG On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Regardless of your tech choice -- Moto, 802.11-based, WiMAX or other, I am interested to know what are the greatest barriers to growth and why? Some possibilities: Is it funding and if so, are your normal channels for money frozen or otherwise gone? Is it competition? If so, how specifically. Are you constrained from hiring due to high cost of employee benefits (e.g. health insurance)? Are you stalled waiting for response from your stimulus application? Are you stalled trying to defend against someone else's stimulus application that would include your market? Are the current technologies too expensive or technicall inadequate to deliver what you need to compete? Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
I second that. The opportunists who saw a quick buck will be selling off equipment in a few years. Good thing the government is giving them lots of cash so they can buy some expensive gear to be sold later for cheap! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 11:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Yeah, what he said! I'm gonna work REALLY hard to pay down debt and put some money in the bank over the next 3 or 4 years. I want to be ready to pick those companies up. marlon - Original Message - From: Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 8:20 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Patrick, Not being one for gov money We have excellent credit. We have that because we only expand at a rate the will allow funding (new business) to cover our costs. So the cycle goes: 1. Build out X number of Towers. 2. Market X number of Areas. 3. Install Customers to X*Y until well funded. Repeat. I think a lot of the companies that take stimulus money are going to go under in the long run. They will go like the dot-coms. Build build Build Ah shit no revenue! That being said, we are vertical, all workers work for the company. That is the only way you can control quality. Good employees are very hard to find. For every 100-200 applications/resumes, maybe 10 are worth talking to seriously. You're lucky to find 1 that is worth hiring. Always a ray of sunshine! Marco Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 7:25 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Patrick, #1- Labor: There is very little skilled resources here. #2- Funding: Especially for labor. Normal financing channels are available but I will not take on too much debt at one time. #3- Time: There is little extra time to dedicate towards expansion versus daily operations. Notes- Employees: Too small to enjoy such a luxury. Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. Technologies: Proprietary equipment are a bit too expensive unless you buy CPE in 100 packs. Even then, the AP's are still expensive. -RickG On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Regardless of your tech choice -- Moto, 802.11-based, WiMAX or other, I am interested to know what are the greatest barriers to growth and why? Some possibilities: Is it funding and if so, are your normal channels for money frozen or otherwise gone? Is it competition? If so, how specifically. Are you constrained from hiring due to high cost of employee benefits (e.g. health insurance)? Are you stalled waiting for response from your stimulus application? Are you stalled trying to defend against someone else's stimulus application that would include your market? Are the current technologies too expensive or technicall inadequate to deliver what you need to compete? Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Bingo! Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Oct 8, 2009, at 12:15 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: I think the major barrier to wisp growth is lack of quality, NLOS spectrum. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marco Coelho Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 11:21 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Patrick, Not being one for gov money We have excellent credit. We have that because we only expand at a rate the will allow funding (new business) to cover our costs. So the cycle goes: 1. Build out X number of Towers. 2. Market X number of Areas. 3. Install Customers to X*Y until well funded. Repeat. I think a lot of the companies that take stimulus money are going to go under in the long run. They will go like the dot-coms. Build build Build Ah shit no revenue! That being said, we are vertical, all workers work for the company. That is the only way you can control quality. Good employees are very hard to find. For every 100-200 applications/resumes, maybe 10 are worth talking to seriously. You're lucky to find 1 that is worth hiring. Always a ray of sunshine! Marco Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 7:25 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Patrick, #1- Labor: There is very little skilled resources here. #2- Funding: Especially for labor. Normal financing channels are available but I will not take on too much debt at one time. #3- Time: There is little extra time to dedicate towards expansion versus daily operations. Notes- Employees: Too small to enjoy such a luxury. Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. Technologies: Proprietary equipment are a bit too expensive unless you buy CPE in 100 packs. Even then, the AP's are still expensive. -RickG On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Regardless of your tech choice -- Moto, 802.11-based, WiMAX or other, I am interested to know what are the greatest barriers to growth and why? Some possibilities: Is it funding and if so, are your normal channels for money frozen or otherwise gone? Is it competition? If so, how specifically. Are you constrained from hiring due to high cost of employee benefits (e.g. health insurance)? Are you stalled waiting for response from your stimulus application? Are you stalled trying to defend against someone else's stimulus application that would include your market? Are the current technologies too expensive or technicall inadequate to deliver what you need to compete? Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036 --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Imagine WISPs using 700mhz to service their customers. No stimulus package needed. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com wrote: Bingo! Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Oct 8, 2009, at 12:15 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: I think the major barrier to wisp growth is lack of quality, NLOS spectrum. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marco Coelho Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 11:21 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Patrick, Not being one for gov money We have excellent credit. We have that because we only expand at a rate the will allow funding (new business) to cover our costs. So the cycle goes: 1. Build out X number of Towers. 2. Market X number of Areas. 3. Install Customers to X*Y until well funded. Repeat. I think a lot of the companies that take stimulus money are going to go under in the long run. They will go like the dot-coms. Build build Build Ah shit no revenue! That being said, we are vertical, all workers work for the company. That is the only way you can control quality. Good employees are very hard to find. For every 100-200 applications/resumes, maybe 10 are worth talking to seriously. You're lucky to find 1 that is worth hiring. Always a ray of sunshine! Marco Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 7:25 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Patrick, #1- Labor: There is very little skilled resources here. #2- Funding: Especially for labor. Normal financing channels are available but I will not take on too much debt at one time. #3- Time: There is little extra time to dedicate towards expansion versus daily operations. Notes- Employees: Too small to enjoy such a luxury. Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. Technologies: Proprietary equipment are a bit too expensive unless you buy CPE in 100 packs. Even then, the AP's are still expensive. -RickG On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Regardless of your tech choice -- Moto, 802.11-based, WiMAX or other, I am interested to know what are the greatest barriers to growth and why? Some possibilities: Is it funding and if so, are your normal channels for money frozen or otherwise gone? Is it competition? If so, how specifically. Are you constrained from hiring due to high cost of employee benefits (e.g. health insurance)? Are you stalled waiting for response from your stimulus application? Are you stalled trying to defend against someone else's stimulus application that would include your market? Are the current technologies too expensive or technicall inadequate to deliver what you need to compete? Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036 --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Exactly! So instead, they want to squander it and hope to get cash from selling or big license fees. A little bit backwards, don't ya think. So they give out a few billion bucks and it still doesn't cover 50%. If they would even just light license good spectrum we'd be all over it with no stimulus cash needed and the benefits would pay off tremendously for everyone, not just the WISP operator. But then again, it would quickly be monopolized by the new Wal-Mart division, WISP-Mart. They would import cheap bandwidth from China, putting our domestic bandwidth factories out of business. The electrons wouldn't last as long and the information would be inferior... On second thought, maybe it's just better this way. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 12:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Imagine WISPs using 700mhz to service their customers. No stimulus package needed. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com wrote: Bingo! Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Oct 8, 2009, at 12:15 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: I think the major barrier to wisp growth is lack of quality, NLOS spectrum. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marco Coelho Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 11:21 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Patrick, Not being one for gov money We have excellent credit. We have that because we only expand at a rate the will allow funding (new business) to cover our costs. So the cycle goes: 1. Build out X number of Towers. 2. Market X number of Areas. 3. Install Customers to X*Y until well funded. Repeat. I think a lot of the companies that take stimulus money are going to go under in the long run. They will go like the dot-coms. Build build Build Ah shit no revenue! That being said, we are vertical, all workers work for the company. That is the only way you can control quality. Good employees are very hard to find. For every 100-200 applications/resumes, maybe 10 are worth talking to seriously. You're lucky to find 1 that is worth hiring. Always a ray of sunshine! Marco Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 7:25 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Patrick, #1- Labor: There is very little skilled resources here. #2- Funding: Especially for labor. Normal financing channels are available but I will not take on too much debt at one time. #3- Time: There is little extra time to dedicate towards expansion versus daily operations. Notes- Employees: Too small to enjoy such a luxury. Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. Technologies: Proprietary equipment are a bit too expensive unless you buy CPE in 100 packs. Even then, the AP's are still expensive. -RickG On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Regardless of your tech choice -- Moto, 802.11-based, WiMAX or other, I am interested to know what are the greatest barriers to growth and why? Some possibilities: Is it funding and if so, are your normal channels for money frozen or otherwise gone? Is it competition? If so, how specifically. Are you constrained from hiring due to high cost of employee benefits (e.g. health insurance)? Are you stalled waiting for response from your stimulus application? Are you stalled trying to defend against someone else's stimulus application that would include your market? Are the current technologies too expensive or technicall inadequate to deliver what you need to compete? Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Seriously? Name one thing the government has done right in the last 200 years. The list should start and end with the military and that can be argued either way. The only thing the government could do to help is to not do anything at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.comwrote: Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
One of my issues is that it isn't necessary. We make money at this business, or at least try to. If an area is underserved or not served, that's usually because of middle mile issues or terrain. It's all line of sight and no one, not even the people trying to start up a wisp with this free money, are going to put up towers every mile or so just to pump a signal into a valley with 2 or 3 homes if even that. So they will obviously be going for the easy areas and those are ones that we can service just fine already and probably do. The motivation is profit, it shouldn't be free money. As someone mentioned before, the majority of these new startups will be here and gone and they will no doubt give a black eye to the wireless business from their lack of experience and sense of responsibility to both their customer and the reputation of the industry they represent. The only true Broadband Stimulus would be to open up enough usable white space spectrum and the market will take care of it from there. Guaranteed. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tim Sylvester Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 12:43 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
No please, let's not go there Josh. Obviously lots of people in the world, not just in the US are going to disagree vehemently with you. That's a completely useless conversation for a public list. Private conversation over a beer? Sure ;-). In a worst case, what you see as a banana gone bad someone else will see as a banana at perfect ripeness. One thing maybe the FCC or other branch of government could do is issue regulations that would help expedite tower zoning approvals. Right now a large part of the review process just drives up the cost for no discernible benefit. As an example, in upstate NY a firm a few years ago shopped a boiler plate zoning requirement to many of the little towns up this way. As a result, if you want to merely change the type of antenna on a tower, or just add to it, you (legally, though I know a lot of firms don't actually do it) have to go through a full zoning hearing, which requires a $5K to $7.5K fee and includes paying a town's consultant to review the application. Crazy waste of time and money. (Yes, you can blame the problem on the town government, but people do have a right to set up their own rules by-and-large, and that's what these towns have done, even though they don't understand what they've done exactly. It's a place where the Fed. government might be able to step in though and set some intelligent ground rules). Chuck On Oct 8, 2009, at 12:55 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Seriously? Name one thing the government has done right in the last 200 years. The list should start and end with the military and that can be argued either way. The only thing the government could do to help is to not do anything at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.com wrote: Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
The problem I've seen in general is that a lot of areas are cherry- picked. Anything with any reasonable density (say, the Village centers in a Town) already have access. You can't really make a business case based on what people can afford to roll out service in many areas out here because of the geography. Yet, there's public good, not just individual good, done by providing access to these folks. So, yes, I think the stimulus funding can be a good thing. The problem is, I fear it's going to be co-opted for applications that really didn't need the funding in the first place. Chuck On Oct 8, 2009, at 1:06 PM, Robert West wrote: One of my issues is that it isn't necessary. We make money at this business, or at least try to. If an area is underserved or not served, that's usually because of middle mile issues or terrain. It's all line of sight and no one, not even the people trying to start up a wisp with this free money, are going to put up towers every mile or so just to pump a signal into a valley with 2 or 3 homes if even that. So they will obviously be going for the easy areas and those are ones that we can service just fine already and probably do. The motivation is profit, it shouldn't be free money. As someone mentioned before, the majority of these new startups will be here and gone and they will no doubt give a black eye to the wireless business from their lack of experience and sense of responsibility to both their customer and the reputation of the industry they represent. The only true Broadband Stimulus would be to open up enough usable white space spectrum and the market will take care of it from there. Guaranteed. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tim Sylvester Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 12:43 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Whatever happened to the American work ethic? What ever happened to the American way of working towards the future? Both have been replaced by a want-it-now instant gratification mentality. Traditionally, a small business could become a big business by grit, determination, and hard work. It is wrong that we have become such an entitlement ready nation; if the government pays me I'll do it. I also further the idea that release of public spectrum in the UHF bands would be a great shot in the arm towards the goal of ubiquitous broadband. Cheaper than a stimulus package too. Both the government and American business have become fond of short term returns at the expense of long term gain and stability. Just how much of this stimulus money will have found its way to bringing ubiquitous broadband to the masses? I don't think it is going to solve the problem, or guarantee long term stability. Giveaways have always been fraught with fraud, cronyism and fat. While not actually a dance with the devil, submission to governmental scrutiny for the sake of subsidized expansion of your business is, in my opinion, short sighted. My ideals are more in line with wisdom handed down through the ages: The government is best which governs least. Mike At 11:42 AM 10/8/2009, you wrote: Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Yes. However my point in it all is that if the government wants to help then cash really isn't the answer. You can throw money at anything and still have no useable result. Cash versus spectrum. I need tools, not money. With the correct spectrum we wouldn't have to worry about cherry picking. I know, I know, everyone gripes about spectrum availability but it's because it's true. That would change the entire makeup of wireless internet. That would be in the public good and, after all, the public DOES own the airwaves but our representatives use it as a profit center instead of the original intent of serving the public good. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 1:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth The problem I've seen in general is that a lot of areas are cherry- picked. Anything with any reasonable density (say, the Village centers in a Town) already have access. You can't really make a business case based on what people can afford to roll out service in many areas out here because of the geography. Yet, there's public good, not just individual good, done by providing access to these folks. So, yes, I think the stimulus funding can be a good thing. The problem is, I fear it's going to be co-opted for applications that really didn't need the funding in the first place. Chuck On Oct 8, 2009, at 1:06 PM, Robert West wrote: One of my issues is that it isn't necessary. We make money at this business, or at least try to. If an area is underserved or not served, that's usually because of middle mile issues or terrain. It's all line of sight and no one, not even the people trying to start up a wisp with this free money, are going to put up towers every mile or so just to pump a signal into a valley with 2 or 3 homes if even that. So they will obviously be going for the easy areas and those are ones that we can service just fine already and probably do. The motivation is profit, it shouldn't be free money. As someone mentioned before, the majority of these new startups will be here and gone and they will no doubt give a black eye to the wireless business from their lack of experience and sense of responsibility to both their customer and the reputation of the industry they represent. The only true Broadband Stimulus would be to open up enough usable white space spectrum and the market will take care of it from there. Guaranteed. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tim Sylvester Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 12:43 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Mike took the words right out of my mouth. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Whatever happened to the American work ethic? What ever happened to the American way of working towards the future? Both have been replaced by a want-it-now instant gratification mentality. Traditionally, a small business could become a big business by grit, determination, and hard work. It is wrong that we have become such an entitlement ready nation; if the government pays me I'll do it. I also further the idea that release of public spectrum in the UHF bands would be a great shot in the arm towards the goal of ubiquitous broadband. Cheaper than a stimulus package too. Both the government and American business have become fond of short term returns at the expense of long term gain and stability. Just how much of this stimulus money will have found its way to bringing ubiquitous broadband to the masses? I don't think it is going to solve the problem, or guarantee long term stability. Giveaways have always been fraught with fraud, cronyism and fat. While not actually a dance with the devil, submission to governmental scrutiny for the sake of subsidized expansion of your business is, in my opinion, short sighted. My ideals are more in line with wisdom handed down through the ages: The government is best which governs least. Mike At 11:42 AM 10/8/2009, you wrote: Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Title: Thank You, Part of the issue for the rural markets is the actual household density. There are some areas that on their own, will not sustain a viable business model even if you have grant money to fund the initial build out. The internet should be viewed as a utility. When other utility technologies were new (electricity and telephone) the government fought with this same exact problem. For the telephone industry they came up with the universal services fund (USF). Areas that qualified for this funding received monthly subsidies to balance out the costs to make it a viable business model in those areas that did not otherwise make the case for private enterprise to do it alone. The Rural Electrification Act (REA) also did things to solve these problems. It's time to do the same for the internet and broadband. Not just one time funding for build outs, but also money to help sustain the operations over time in markets that just can't do it otherwise. There is no magic spectrum allocation that will solve this problem. Certain areas need more spectrum for capacity and demand that is true, but spectrum policy alone will not solve the issues for areas that just don't make business sense. It's true that lower spectrum allocations propagate better, but with those characteristics also come other technical issues as well as international treaties and laws with regard to how the spectrum gets used. Spectrum management issues are a hot topic. Don't expect to see much more spectrum for little to no money. The new chairman was just speaking to the cellular industry this week and mentioned making more spectrum available (to them apparently). If that industry is wanting spectrum and are willing to pay for it, don't expect the government to give the WISP industry any for free. It's just not going to happen. We HAVE to learn to make do with what we have now. That may be in better technology, better spectrum planning among competitors, smarter antenna system and/or deployment strategies. Innovation is what created this industry in the first place. Waiting for the government to free up more spectrum as the solution is a poor way to plan on the future. Figuring out a way to make do or make things better with what we already have, is the good old American way of doing things. That will mean change and forward thinking. It's human nature to resist change and think about doing things differently. Those who can accept change more ready usually make out better, mostly due to the fact that others will resist. Those who can move quickly and capitalize on others stubbornness are usually called "innovators" :-) Thank You, Brian Webster Chuck Bartosch wrote: The problem I've seen in general is that a lot of areas are cherry- picked. Anything with any reasonable density (say, the Village centers in a Town) already have access. You can't really make a business case based on what people can afford to roll out service in many areas out here because of the geography. Yet, there's public good, not just individual good, done by providing access to these folks. So, yes, I think the stimulus funding can be a good thing. The problem is, I fear it's going to be co-opted for applications that really didn't need the funding in the first place. Chuck On Oct 8, 2009, at 1:06 PM, Robert West wrote: One of my issues is that it isn't necessary. We make money at this business, or at least try to. If an area is underserved or not served, that's usually because of middle mile issues or terrain. It's all line of sight and no one, not even the people trying to start up a wisp with this "free" money, are going to put up towers every mile or so just to pump a signal into a valley with 2 or 3 homes if even that. So they will obviously be going for the "easy" areas and those are ones that we can service just fine already and probably do. The motivation is profit, it shouldn't be free money. As someone mentioned before, the majority of these new startups will be here and gone and they will no doubt give a black eye to the wireless business from their lack of experience and sense of responsibility to both their customer and the reputation of the industry they represent. The only true Broadband Stimulus would be to open up enough usable white space spectrum and the market will take care of it from there. Guaranteed. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tim Sylvester Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 12:43 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't b
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Some are conservatives and don't believe the government should have spent a dime of the ARRA. (I'm conservative, but not that conservative... they should have at least built roads). Some don't want the government red tape. Some have plans and don't want to stray from them. Some don't think they can build a good enough project. Some can't. Some don't need it. Some couldn't handle the work load it would generate. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.com Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 11:42 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
I also further the idea that release of public spectrum in the UHF bands would be a great shot in the arm towards the goal of ubiquitous broadband. Cheaper than a stimulus package too. OK. We are getting somewhere. You do want the government to do something. You want the government to open up the UHF bands for wireless data services. How should this be done? Should the spectrum be free or sold at auction to the highest bidder? Unlicensed, licensed, or semi-licensed? What restrictions, if any, should be placed on the devices using the spectrum - power output, cognitive radios, etc.? What about interference with wireless mics? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
In general, in the rural areas I work in, spectrum availability isn't ever the issue. In cities and sometimes village centers, yes, but not in the areas that should be addressed with broadband funding. Chuck On Oct 8, 2009, at 1:32 PM, Robert West wrote: Yes. However my point in it all is that if the government wants to help then cash really isn't the answer. You can throw money at anything and still have no useable result. Cash versus spectrum. I need tools, not money. With the correct spectrum we wouldn't have to worry about cherry picking. I know, I know, everyone gripes about spectrum availability but it's because it's true. That would change the entire makeup of wireless internet. That would be in the public good and, after all, the public DOES own the airwaves but our representatives use it as a profit center instead of the original intent of serving the public good. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 1:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth The problem I've seen in general is that a lot of areas are cherry- picked. Anything with any reasonable density (say, the Village centers in a Town) already have access. You can't really make a business case based on what people can afford to roll out service in many areas out here because of the geography. Yet, there's public good, not just individual good, done by providing access to these folks. So, yes, I think the stimulus funding can be a good thing. The problem is, I fear it's going to be co-opted for applications that really didn't need the funding in the first place. Chuck On Oct 8, 2009, at 1:06 PM, Robert West wrote: One of my issues is that it isn't necessary. We make money at this business, or at least try to. If an area is underserved or not served, that's usually because of middle mile issues or terrain. It's all line of sight and no one, not even the people trying to start up a wisp with this free money, are going to put up towers every mile or so just to pump a signal into a valley with 2 or 3 homes if even that. So they will obviously be going for the easy areas and those are ones that we can service just fine already and probably do. The motivation is profit, it shouldn't be free money. As someone mentioned before, the majority of these new startups will be here and gone and they will no doubt give a black eye to the wireless business from their lack of experience and sense of responsibility to both their customer and the reputation of the industry they represent. The only true Broadband Stimulus would be to open up enough usable white space spectrum and the market will take care of it from there. Guaranteed. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tim Sylvester Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 12:43 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Hear, hear Mike! Well said! Are you running for office? A vote against nearly ANY congressional incumbent in 2010 is a vote for REAL change! I'll add that many of the applications we've seen are from those that have watched their Angel Funding risk venture capital sources dry up with the poor economy and their poorer performance. They have no choice but to hold their hands out for anything that might drop into them. Many of them certainly haven't figured out how to build a company and generate profits organically! Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 12:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Mike took the words right out of my mouth. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Whatever happened to the American work ethic? What ever happened to the American way of working towards the future? Both have been replaced by a want-it-now instant gratification mentality. Traditionally, a small business could become a big business by grit, determination, and hard work. It is wrong that we have become such an entitlement ready nation; if the government pays me I'll do it. I also further the idea that release of public spectrum in the UHF bands would be a great shot in the arm towards the goal of ubiquitous broadband. Cheaper than a stimulus package too. Both the government and American business have become fond of short term returns at the expense of long term gain and stability. Just how much of this stimulus money will have found its way to bringing ubiquitous broadband to the masses? I don't think it is going to solve the problem, or guarantee long term stability. Giveaways have always been fraught with fraud, cronyism and fat. While not actually a dance with the devil, submission to governmental scrutiny for the sake of subsidized expansion of your business is, in my opinion, short sighted. My ideals are more in line with wisdom handed down through the ages: The government is best which governs least. Mike At 11:42 AM 10/8/2009, you wrote: Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
The stimulus will only make things worse in this regard. The areas that REALLY need it, still won't. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 12:15 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth The problem I've seen in general is that a lot of areas are cherry- picked. Anything with any reasonable density (say, the Village centers in a Town) already have access. You can't really make a business case based on what people can afford to roll out service in many areas out here because of the geography. Yet, there's public good, not just individual good, done by providing access to these folks. So, yes, I think the stimulus funding can be a good thing. The problem is, I fear it's going to be co-opted for applications that really didn't need the funding in the first place. Chuck On Oct 8, 2009, at 1:06 PM, Robert West wrote: One of my issues is that it isn't necessary. We make money at this business, or at least try to. If an area is underserved or not served, that's usually because of middle mile issues or terrain. It's all line of sight and no one, not even the people trying to start up a wisp with this free money, are going to put up towers every mile or so just to pump a signal into a valley with 2 or 3 homes if even that. So they will obviously be going for the easy areas and those are ones that we can service just fine already and probably do. The motivation is profit, it shouldn't be free money. As someone mentioned before, the majority of these new startups will be here and gone and they will no doubt give a black eye to the wireless business from their lack of experience and sense of responsibility to both their customer and the reputation of the industry they represent. The only true Broadband Stimulus would be to open up enough usable white space spectrum and the market will take care of it from there. Guaranteed. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tim Sylvester Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 12:43 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Let's not forget that the aim of the stimulus grant was to get money moving again, create jobs, etc. People getting broadband is only an after thought. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 12:20 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Whatever happened to the American work ethic? What ever happened to the American way of working towards the future? Both have been replaced by a want-it-now instant gratification mentality. Traditionally, a small business could become a big business by grit, determination, and hard work. It is wrong that we have become such an entitlement ready nation; if the government pays me I'll do it. I also further the idea that release of public spectrum in the UHF bands would be a great shot in the arm towards the goal of ubiquitous broadband. Cheaper than a stimulus package too. Both the government and American business have become fond of short term returns at the expense of long term gain and stability. Just how much of this stimulus money will have found its way to bringing ubiquitous broadband to the masses? I don't think it is going to solve the problem, or guarantee long term stability. Giveaways have always been fraught with fraud, cronyism and fat. While not actually a dance with the devil, submission to governmental scrutiny for the sake of subsidized expansion of your business is, in my opinion, short sighted. My ideals are more in line with wisdom handed down through the ages: The government is best which governs least. Mike At 11:42 AM 10/8/2009, you wrote: Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Thank You,I think reasonable white spaces policy would solve a lot of it. If you could serve a 60 or 100 mile radius from 1 tower in Alaska, Texas, Montana, Nevada, Utah, Dakotas, etc. you probably could make a good business case. Obviously those same power levels wouldn't work east of the Mississippi. That is where government money should go, building 1000' towers in the middle of nowhere for VHF TVWS broadband radios and PtP links back to civilization. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Brian Webster Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 12:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Part of the issue for the rural markets is the actual household density. There are some areas that on their own, will not sustain a viable business model even if you have grant money to fund the initial build out. The internet should be viewed as a utility. When other utility technologies were new (electricity and telephone) the government fought with this same exact problem. For the telephone industry they came up with the universal services fund (USF). Areas that qualified for this funding received monthly subsidies to balance out the costs to make it a viable business model in those areas that did not otherwise make the case for private enterprise to do it alone. The Rural Electrification Act (REA) also did things to solve these problems. It's time to do the same for the internet and broadband. Not just one time funding for build outs, but also money to help sustain the operations over time in markets that just can't do it otherwise. There is no magic spectrum allocation that will solve this problem. Certain areas need more spectrum for capacity and demand that is true, but spectrum policy alone will not solve the issues for areas that just don't make business sense. It's true that lower spectrum allocations propagate better, but with those characteristics also come other technical issues as well as international treaties and laws with regard to how the spectrum gets used. Spectrum management issues are a hot topic. Don't expect to see much more spectrum for little to no money. The new chairman was just speaking to the cellular industry this week and mentioned making more spectrum available (to them apparently). If that industry is wanting spectrum and are willing to pay for it, don't expect the government to give the WISP industry any for free. It's just not going to happen. We HAVE to learn to make do with what we have now. That may be in better technology, better spectrum planning among competitors, sm arter antenna system and/or deployment strategies. Innovation is what created this industry in the first place. Waiting for the government to free up more spectrum as the solution is a poor way to plan on the future. Figuring out a way to make do or make things better with what we already have, is the good old American way of doing things. That will mean change and forward thinking. It's human nature to resist change and think about doing things differently. Those who can accept change more ready usually make out better, mostly due to the fact that others will resist. Those who can move quickly and capitalize on others stubbornness are usually called innovators :-) Thank You, Brian Webster !--[if !supportEmptyParas]-- !--[endif]-- Chuck Bartosch wrote: The problem I've seen in general is that a lot of areas are cherry- picked. Anything with any reasonable density (say, the Village centers in a Town) already have access. You can't really make a business case based on what people can afford to roll out service in many areas out here because of the geography. Yet, there's public good, not just individual good, done by providing access to these folks. So, yes, I think the stimulus funding can be a good thing. The problem is, I fear it's going to be co-opted for applications that really didn't need the funding in the first place. Chuck On Oct 8, 2009, at 1:06 PM, Robert West wrote: One of my issues is that it isn't necessary. We make money at this business, or at least try to. If an area is underserved or not served, that's usually because of middle mile issues or terrain. It's all line of sight and no one, not even the people trying to start up a wisp with this free money, are going to put up towers every mile or so just to pump a signal into a valley with 2 or 3 homes if even that. So they will obviously be going for the easy areas and those are ones that we can service just fine already and probably do. The motivation is profit, it shouldn't be free money. As someone mentioned before, the majority of these new startups will be here and gone and they will no doubt give a black eye to the wireless business from their lack of experience and sense of responsibility to both their customer and the reputation of the industry they represent. The only
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Tim must be new to WISPA. ;-) WISPA has done a lot of work with the FCC and TV WhiteSpaces. There have been many filings with WISPA's official position. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.com Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 12:46 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth I also further the idea that release of public spectrum in the UHF bands would be a great shot in the arm towards the goal of ubiquitous broadband. Cheaper than a stimulus package too. OK. We are getting somewhere. You do want the government to do something. You want the government to open up the UHF bands for wireless data services. How should this be done? Should the spectrum be free or sold at auction to the highest bidder? Unlicensed, licensed, or semi-licensed? What restrictions, if any, should be placed on the devices using the spectrum - power output, cognitive radios, etc.? What about interference with wireless mics? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Not going there on this list, but there is a long list its done right including funding the development of the Internet upon which you make your living. I would add the highway system as well. --Curtis Josh Luthman wrote: Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Seriously? Name one thing the government has done right in the last 200 years. The list should start and end with the military and that can be argued either way. The only thing the government could do to help is to not do anything at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.comwrote: Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
I really would prefer the government do little except legislate and execute that legislation. I think a portion of the newly available UHF frequencies be allocated to the public domain similar to the existing space available for unlicensed usage. The technologies I would embrace foremost would be those technologies which adapt, and spread their signal over the entire allocation. Cognitive, yes, and an adaptive spread spectrum software defined radio of some sort. There are technologies on the horizon which can meet these things. Frequencies allowing NLOS and OTH propagation would further the goal of ubiquitous broadband, WITHOUT billions in handouts. Mike At 12:46 PM 10/8/2009, you wrote: I also further the idea that release of public spectrum in the UHF bands would be a great shot in the arm towards the goal of ubiquitous broadband. Cheaper than a stimulus package too. OK. We are getting somewhere. You do want the government to do something. You want the government to open up the UHF bands for wireless data services. How should this be done? Should the spectrum be free or sold at auction to the highest bidder? Unlicensed, licensed, or semi-licensed? What restrictions, if any, should be placed on the devices using the spectrum - power output, cognitive radios, etc.? What about interference with wireless mics? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
I know it's not FUNNY FRIDAY yet but as Flip used to say, the devil made me do it Ya know, the IRS (US Government) took over a whore house in Nevada. Now some law says the IRS has to run a running business to try to repay the government for back taxes or incase the owner wins it back on appeal.) Now as a sales person, I think the two easiest things to sell LEGALLY would be whiskey and well, you know what. THEY WENT OUT OF BUSINESS Only my opinion here; They should capitalize on what they are extremely good at, THE DESTRUCTION BUSINESS! Come to think of it, this may be part of the internet take over/ destruction. I nominate Jack for CZAR, he's got the moustache! CHUCK PROFITO -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Curtis Maurand Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 11:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Not going there on this list, but there is a long list its done right including funding the development of the Internet upon which you make your living. I would add the highway system as well. --Curtis Josh Luthman wrote: Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Seriously? Name one thing the government has done right in the last 200 years. The list should start and end with the military and that can be argued either way. The only thing the government could do to help is to not do anything at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.comwrote: Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Exactly. As I said earlier, the free money is sure to have a bunch of Joe blows and hucksters emerge as Wireless Internet companies only to do such a poor and uncaring job that it will give the rest of us a black eye and a bad taste in the mouth of future customers. Time will tell and with everything else, there isn't much we can do as far as that goes. WISPA has indeed done a very good job in making our positions known on the whitespace and for that I'm grateful. At least we have a voice. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Profito Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 2:48 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth I know it's not FUNNY FRIDAY yet but as Flip used to say, the devil made me do it Ya know, the IRS (US Government) took over a whore house in Nevada. Now some law says the IRS has to run a running business to try to repay the government for back taxes or incase the owner wins it back on appeal.) Now as a sales person, I think the two easiest things to sell LEGALLY would be whiskey and well, you know what. THEY WENT OUT OF BUSINESS Only my opinion here; They should capitalize on what they are extremely good at, THE DESTRUCTION BUSINESS! Come to think of it, this may be part of the internet take over/ destruction. I nominate Jack for CZAR, he's got the moustache! CHUCK PROFITO -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Curtis Maurand Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 11:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Not going there on this list, but there is a long list its done right including funding the development of the Internet upon which you make your living. I would add the highway system as well. --Curtis Josh Luthman wrote: Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Seriously? Name one thing the government has done right in the last 200 years. The list should start and end with the military and that can be argued either way. The only thing the government could do to help is to not do anything at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.comwrote: Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Well said! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 9:56 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Seriously? Name one thing the government has done right in the last 200 years. The list should start and end with the military and that can be argued either way. The only thing the government could do to help is to not do anything at all. Josh Luthman WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
The government will never do things right. It all depends on what side of the fence you are on. To walk softly here and bring a hint of religion into a political discussion. Good and evil. Good is the same as evil and evil is the same as good for a lot of things. Depends on the side of the fence you are on. One side cheers about a government action and the other side jeers. Everyone has an agenda, government and otherwise, but it's never the right one for me! :) Josh said The only thing the government could do to help is to not do anything at all. Maybe so but I have found that it isn't even safe to do just nothing. I frequently am doing the wrong thing at home even when I am doing nothing. At least that's what the wife tells me. I just assume whatever I do will be wrong and just do it anyway. Such as is with our government. A lack of consensus is why it's a never ending discussion and can easily consume this little old WISP list. So.. It's just better to keep it wireless. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Vander Dussen Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 3:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Well said! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 9:56 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Seriously? Name one thing the government has done right in the last 200 years. The list should start and end with the military and that can be argued either way. The only thing the government could do to help is to not do anything at all. Josh Luthman WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Having spent some time in some rugged spots in the world I can say by comparison that Im happy with some things the government does. Clean, potable water is nice as are decent roads, fire protection and lack of Malaria. It aint all bad. Chris -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Vander Dussen Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 3:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Well said! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 9:56 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Seriously? Name one thing the government has done right in the last 200 years. The list should start and end with the military and that can be argued either way. The only thing the government could do to help is to not do anything at all. Josh Luthman WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Chris, thank you for that reality check. I agree with you. My only wish is that those areas you mentioned is where the government stopped. Let business do business. Let me make a buck without the government telling me how or giving someone else the tax money I pay to try to compete with me. But this is not a perfect nation but I wouldn't trade her for any other in the world. (except maybe my own private island, but that will have to wait for the next round of ARRA money) Steve Barnes RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, vision cleared, ambition inspired, and success achieved. - Helen Keller -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of chris cooper Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 5:03 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Having spent some time in some rugged spots in the world I can say by comparison that Im happy with some things the government does. Clean, potable water is nice as are decent roads, fire protection and lack of Malaria. It aint all bad. Chris -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Vander Dussen Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 3:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Well said! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 9:56 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Seriously? Name one thing the government has done right in the last 200 years. The list should start and end with the military and that can be argued either way. The only thing the government could do to help is to not do anything at all. Josh Luthman WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
And that's pretty much what they said about the Romans! Had to add it.. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of chris cooper Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 5:03 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Having spent some time in some rugged spots in the world I can say by comparison that Im happy with some things the government does. Clean, potable water is nice as are decent roads, fire protection and lack of Malaria. It aint all bad. Chris -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Vander Dussen Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 3:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Well said! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 9:56 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Seriously? Name one thing the government has done right in the last 200 years. The list should start and end with the military and that can be argued either way. The only thing the government could do to help is to not do anything at all. Josh Luthman WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
They got that all backwards though at the FCC. First auction off 700 Mhz and then give all these ISP's a shot at $$$. But, then again, I don't think the FCC had us WISP's in mind that much with the stimulus money? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 12:39:09 -0400 Exactly! So instead, they want to squander it and hope to get cash from selling or big license fees. A little bit backwards, don't ya think. So they give out a few billion bucks and it still doesn't cover 50%. If they would even just light license good spectrum we'd be all over it with no stimulus cash needed and the benefits would pay off tremendously for everyone, not just the WISP operator. But then again, it would quickly be monopolized by the new Wal-Mart division, WISP-Mart. They would import cheap bandwidth from China, putting our domestic bandwidth factories out of business. The electrons wouldn't last as long and the information would be inferior... On second thought, maybe it's just better this way. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 12:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Imagine WISPs using 700mhz to service their customers. No stimulus package needed. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com wrote: Bingo! Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Oct 8, 2009, at 12:15 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: I think the major barrier to wisp growth is lack of quality, NLOS spectrum. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marco Coelho Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 11:21 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Patrick, Not being one for gov money We have excellent credit. We have that because we only expand at a rate the will allow funding (new business) to cover our costs. So the cycle goes: 1. Build out X number of Towers. 2. Market X number of Areas. 3. Install Customers to X*Y until well funded. Repeat. I think a lot of the companies that take stimulus money are going to go under in the long run. They will go like the dot-coms. Build build Build Ah shit no revenue! That being said, we are vertical, all workers work for the company. That is the only way you can control quality. Good employees are very hard to find. For every 100-200 applications/resumes, maybe 10 are worth talking to seriously. You're lucky to find 1 that is worth hiring. Always a ray of sunshine! Marco Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 7:25 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Patrick, #1- Labor: There is very little skilled resources here. #2- Funding: Especially for labor. Normal financing channels are available but I will not take on too much debt at one time. #3- Time: There is little extra time to dedicate towards expansion versus daily operations. Notes- Employees: Too small to enjoy such a luxury. Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. Technologies: Proprietary equipment are a bit too expensive unless you buy CPE in 100 packs. Even then, the AP's are still expensive. -RickG On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Regardless of your tech choice -- Moto, 802.11-based, WiMAX or other, I am interested to know what are the greatest barriers to growth and why? Some possibilities: Is it funding and if so, are your normal channels for money frozen or otherwise gone? Is it competition? If so, how specifically. Are you constrained from hiring due to high cost of employee benefits (e.g. health insurance)? Are you stalled waiting for response from your stimulus application? Are you stalled trying to defend against someone else's stimulus application that would include your market? Are the current technologies too expensive or technicall inadequate to deliver what you need to compete? Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Agreed. And to take down those stupid height restrictions on whitespace spectrum. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 13:06:38 -0400 The only true Broadband Stimulus would be to open up enough usable white space spectrum and the market will take care of it from there. Guaranteed. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tim Sylvester Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 12:43 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Brian makes good points, as long as the FCC would allow any ISP the rights to this: It's time to do the same for the internet and broadband. Not just one time funding for build outs, but also money to help sustain the operations over time in markets that just can't do it otherwise. The Rural Telephone Cooperatives rule the roost in my competitive area(with telephone and internet) and they should not be the only ones getting this funding. The FCC has already done that with the rural exemption clauses in the TA of 1996, along with other telecom wide Act's passages. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com Reply-To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 13:38:37 -0400 Part of the issue for the rural markets is the actual household density. There are some areas that on their own, will not sustain a viable business model even if you have grant money to fund the initial build out. The internet should be viewed as a utility. When other utility technologies were new (electricity and telephone) the government fought with this same exact problem. For the telephone industry they came up with the universal services fund (USF). Areas that qualified for this funding received monthly subsidies to balance out the costs to make it a viable business model in those areas that did not otherwise make the case for private enterprise to do it alone. The Rural Electrification Act (REA) also did things to solve these problems. It's time to do the same for the internet and broadband. Not just one time funding for build outs, but also money to help sustain the operations over time in markets that just can't do it otherwise. Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
I think it should not be auctioned. Not to get into the details, but the government has somehow subsidized or gave money to the big telco's over the last 30 - 40 years just to get a single line of communications to our home(Brian eluded to this in earlier posts). Most telco's have benefited greatly from this and they have ton's more money now, compared to than any WISP with less than half a million customers could even THINK of offering for spectrum. To further subordinate this, the rural telco's have been protected from any competition for so long, it falls into the same category. Open it up, and let the American people decide the winners and losers. If more Americans want Internet than wireless mic's...I guess that Internet wins...after all, is the FCC not to serve the American People, or is it the companies who give the most $$$ back that they support? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 10:46:09 -0700 I also further the idea that release of public spectrum in the UHF bands would be a great shot in the arm towards the goal of ubiquitous broadband. Cheaper than a stimulus package too. OK. We are getting somewhere. You do want the government to do something. You want the government to open up the UHF bands for wireless data services. How should this be done? Should the spectrum be free or sold at auction to the highest bidder? Unlicensed, licensed, or semi-licensed? What restrictions, if any, should be placed on the devices using the spectrum - power output, cognitive radios, etc.? What about interference with wireless mics? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Maybe he should have legalized marijuana? Would have probably done better! J/K! Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 12:52:38 -0500 Let's not forget that the aim of the stimulus grant was to get money moving again, create jobs, etc. People getting broadband is only an after thought. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 12:20 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Whatever happened to the American work ethic? What ever happened to the American way of working towards the future? Both have been replaced by a want-it-now instant gratification mentality. Traditionally, a small business could become a big business by grit, determination, and hard work. It is wrong that we have become such an entitlement ready nation; if the government pays me I'll do it. I also further the idea that release of public spectrum in the UHF bands would be a great shot in the arm towards the goal of ubiquitous broadband. Cheaper than a stimulus package too. Both the government and American business have become fond of short term returns at the expense of long term gain and stability. Just how much of this stimulus money will have found its way to bringing ubiquitous broadband to the masses? I don't think it is going to solve the problem, or guarantee long term stability. Giveaways have always been fraught with fraud, cronyism and fat. While not actually a dance with the devil, submission to governmental scrutiny for the sake of subsidized expansion of your business is, in my opinion, short sighted. My ideals are more in line with wisdom handed down through the ages: The government is best which governs least. Mike At 11:42 AM 10/8/2009, you wrote: Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Ditto :) On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Seriously? Name one thing the government has done right in the last 200 years. The list should start and end with the military and that can be argued either way. The only thing the government could do to help is to not do anything at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.comwrote: Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
They're politicians. They only have to be able to say they offered cash, actually handing it over is less than secondary. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scottie Arnett Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 9:54 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth They got that all backwards though at the FCC. First auction off 700 Mhz and then give all these ISP's a shot at $$$. But, then again, I don't think the FCC had us WISP's in mind that much with the stimulus money? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 12:39:09 -0400 Exactly! So instead, they want to squander it and hope to get cash from selling or big license fees. A little bit backwards, don't ya think. So they give out a few billion bucks and it still doesn't cover 50%. If they would even just light license good spectrum we'd be all over it with no stimulus cash needed and the benefits would pay off tremendously for everyone, not just the WISP operator. But then again, it would quickly be monopolized by the new Wal-Mart division, WISP-Mart. They would import cheap bandwidth from China, putting our domestic bandwidth factories out of business. The electrons wouldn't last as long and the information would be inferior... On second thought, maybe it's just better this way. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 12:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Imagine WISPs using 700mhz to service their customers. No stimulus package needed. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com wrote: Bingo! Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Oct 8, 2009, at 12:15 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: I think the major barrier to wisp growth is lack of quality, NLOS spectrum. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marco Coelho Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 11:21 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Patrick, Not being one for gov money We have excellent credit. We have that because we only expand at a rate the will allow funding (new business) to cover our costs. So the cycle goes: 1. Build out X number of Towers. 2. Market X number of Areas. 3. Install Customers to X*Y until well funded. Repeat. I think a lot of the companies that take stimulus money are going to go under in the long run. They will go like the dot-coms. Build build Build Ah shit no revenue! That being said, we are vertical, all workers work for the company. That is the only way you can control quality. Good employees are very hard to find. For every 100-200 applications/resumes, maybe 10 are worth talking to seriously. You're lucky to find 1 that is worth hiring. Always a ray of sunshine! Marco Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 7:25 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Patrick, #1- Labor: There is very little skilled resources here. #2- Funding: Especially for labor. Normal financing channels are available but I will not take on too much debt at one time. #3- Time: There is little extra time to dedicate towards expansion versus daily operations. Notes- Employees: Too small to enjoy such a luxury. Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. Technologies: Proprietary equipment are a bit too expensive unless you buy CPE in 100 packs. Even then, the AP's are still expensive. -RickG On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Regardless of your tech choice -- Moto, 802.11-based, WiMAX or other, I am interested to know what are the greatest barriers to growth and why? Some possibilities: Is it funding and if so, are your normal channels for money frozen or otherwise gone? Is it competition? If so, how specifically. Are you constrained from hiring due to high cost of employee benefits (e.g. health insurance)? Are you stalled waiting for response from your stimulus application? Are you stalled trying to defend against someone else's stimulus application that would include your market? Are the current technologies too expensive or technicall inadequate to deliver what you need to compete? Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
I don't know but I heard that the wireless mic lobby in Washington is a pretty influential bunch. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scottie Arnett Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 10:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth I think it should not be auctioned. Not to get into the details, but the government has somehow subsidized or gave money to the big telco's over the last 30 - 40 years just to get a single line of communications to our home(Brian eluded to this in earlier posts). Most telco's have benefited greatly from this and they have ton's more money now, compared to than any WISP with less than half a million customers could even THINK of offering for spectrum. To further subordinate this, the rural telco's have been protected from any competition for so long, it falls into the same category. Open it up, and let the American people decide the winners and losers. If more Americans want Internet than wireless mic's...I guess that Internet wins...after all, is the FCC not to serve the American People, or is it the companies who give the most $$$ back that they support? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 10:46:09 -0700 I also further the idea that release of public spectrum in the UHF bands would be a great shot in the arm towards the goal of ubiquitous broadband. Cheaper than a stimulus package too. OK. We are getting somewhere. You do want the government to do something. You want the government to open up the UHF bands for wireless data services. How should this be done? Should the spectrum be free or sold at auction to the highest bidder? Unlicensed, licensed, or semi-licensed? What restrictions, if any, should be placed on the devices using the spectrum - power output, cognitive radios, etc.? What about interference with wireless mics? Tim --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
The government would figure out a way to lose money on that too. They could provide the bulk of it to Baptists. Ie, folks who really don't need it. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scottie Arnett Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 10:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Maybe he should have legalized marijuana? Would have probably done better! J/K! Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 12:52:38 -0500 Let's not forget that the aim of the stimulus grant was to get money moving again, create jobs, etc. People getting broadband is only an after thought. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 12:20 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Whatever happened to the American work ethic? What ever happened to the American way of working towards the future? Both have been replaced by a want-it-now instant gratification mentality. Traditionally, a small business could become a big business by grit, determination, and hard work. It is wrong that we have become such an entitlement ready nation; if the government pays me I'll do it. I also further the idea that release of public spectrum in the UHF bands would be a great shot in the arm towards the goal of ubiquitous broadband. Cheaper than a stimulus package too. Both the government and American business have become fond of short term returns at the expense of long term gain and stability. Just how much of this stimulus money will have found its way to bringing ubiquitous broadband to the masses? I don't think it is going to solve the problem, or guarantee long term stability. Giveaways have always been fraught with fraud, cronyism and fat. While not actually a dance with the devil, submission to governmental scrutiny for the sake of subsidized expansion of your business is, in my opinion, short sighted. My ideals are more in line with wisdom handed down through the ages: The government is best which governs least. Mike At 11:42 AM 10/8/2009, you wrote: Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
I'll add that many of the applications we've seen are from those that have watched their Angel Funding risk venture capital sources dry up with the poor economy and their poorer performance. Even worse, their poor performance drys up their funding in good times! -RickG On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:50 PM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: Hear, hear Mike! Well said! Are you running for office? A vote against nearly ANY congressional incumbent in 2010 is a vote for REAL change! I'll add that many of the applications we've seen are from those that have watched their Angel Funding risk venture capital sources dry up with the poor economy and their poorer performance. They have no choice but to hold their hands out for anything that might drop into them. Many of them certainly haven't figured out how to build a company and generate profits organically! Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 12:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Mike took the words right out of my mouth. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Whatever happened to the American work ethic? What ever happened to the American way of working towards the future? Both have been replaced by a want-it-now instant gratification mentality. Traditionally, a small business could become a big business by grit, determination, and hard work. It is wrong that we have become such an entitlement ready nation; if the government pays me I'll do it. I also further the idea that release of public spectrum in the UHF bands would be a great shot in the arm towards the goal of ubiquitous broadband. Cheaper than a stimulus package too. Both the government and American business have become fond of short term returns at the expense of long term gain and stability. Just how much of this stimulus money will have found its way to bringing ubiquitous broadband to the masses? I don't think it is going to solve the problem, or guarantee long term stability. Giveaways have always been fraught with fraud, cronyism and fat. While not actually a dance with the devil, submission to governmental scrutiny for the sake of subsidized expansion of your business is, in my opinion, short sighted. My ideals are more in line with wisdom handed down through the ages: The government is best which governs least. Mike At 11:42 AM 10/8/2009, you wrote: Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Huh? The high system? http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003226851_fragile26.html http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2008/06/part_one_america_is_falling_ap.html http://www.infiniteunknown.net/2008/05/09/us-infrastructure-is-falling-apart/ As far as making a living upon the internet, most of the WISP's I meet make very little (including myself) and pay through the nose for access ourselves. -RickG On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 2:17 PM, Curtis Maurand cmaur...@xyonet.com wrote: Not going there on this list, but there is a long list its done right including funding the development of the Internet upon which you make your living. I would add the highway system as well. --Curtis Josh Luthman wrote: Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Seriously? Name one thing the government has done right in the last 200 years. The list should start and end with the military and that can be argued either way. The only thing the government could do to help is to not do anything at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.comwrote: Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
At one time, we decided to try our hand at a salt water fish aquarium. Before we began, I read a book on the subject. It started out saying that the aquarium in not he fish's natural environment and they survive (barely) in spite of what we do. I liken this to government. Any and all of them, not just ours. Sure, we have the best country ever on Gods green earth but this is in spite of our government, not because of it. If you consider the waste, we should have the Garden of Eden! -RickG On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 5:03 PM, chris cooper ccoo...@intelliwave.com wrote: Having spent some time in some rugged spots in the world I can say by comparison that Im happy with some things the government does. Clean, potable water is nice as are decent roads, fire protection and lack of Malaria. It aint all bad. Chris -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Vander Dussen Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 3:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Well said! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 9:56 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Seriously? Name one thing the government has done right in the last 200 years. The list should start and end with the military and that can be argued either way. The only thing the government could do to help is to not do anything at all. Josh Luthman WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Chuck Profito wrote: I know it's not FUNNY FRIDAY yet but as Flip used to say, "the devil made me do it" Ya know, the IRS (US Government) took over a whore house in Nevada. Now some law says the IRS has to run a running business to try to repay the government for back taxes or incase the owner wins it back on appeal.) Now as a sales person, I think the two easiest things to sell LEGALLY would be whiskey and well, "you know what". THEY WENT OUT OF BUSINESS Only my opinion here; They should capitalize on what they are extremely good at, THE DESTRUCTION BUSINESS! Come to think of it, this may be part of the internet take over/ destruction. I nominate Jack for CZAR, he's got the moustache! Right On!! When I'm czar, things will change around here!! CHUCK PROFITO -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Curtis Maurand Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 11:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth Not going there on this list, but there is a long list its done right including funding the development of the Internet upon which you make your living. I would add the highway system as well. --Curtis Josh Luthman wrote: Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Seriously? Name one thing the government has done right in the last 200 years. The list should start and end with the military and that can be argued either way. The only thing the government could do to help is to not do anything at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth." --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.comwrote: Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus programs. Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on why you don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there things you think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs and expanding broadband? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
Patrick, #1- Labor: There is very little skilled resources here. #2- Funding: Especially for labor. Normal financing channels are available but I will not take on too much debt at one time. #3- Time: There is little extra time to dedicate towards expansion versus daily operations. Notes- Employees: Too small to enjoy such a luxury. Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. Technologies: Proprietary equipment are a bit too expensive unless you buy CPE in 100 packs. Even then, the AP's are still expensive. -RickG On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Regardless of your tech choice -- Moto, 802.11-based, WiMAX or other, I am interested to know what are the greatest barriers to growth and why? Some possibilities: Is it funding and if so, are your normal channels for money frozen or otherwise gone? Is it competition? If so, how specifically. Are you constrained from hiring due to high cost of employee benefits (e.g. health insurance)? Are you stalled waiting for response from your stimulus application? Are you stalled trying to defend against someone else's stimulus application that would include your market? Are the current technologies too expensive or technicall inadequate to deliver what you need to compete? Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
