Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
Forbes, just be careful, here. ALL equipment exhibits some sort of goofiness when it hits its limit. If the processor can not handle the load, bad things happen. If it runs out of memory, it does goofy things. Whether it is an MT or Cisco, it will fail at some level of loading. The Ubiquiti will, too, at some point. I don't think your problem is MT, per se, It also is not bridging as many like to make it out. It looks to me that the problem is MT doesn't handle large amounts of data or high packet rates over bridged ports. While I don't have a direct answer for your question, I do have a long-term recommendation: Determine what the traffic load is now and what you anticipate it to be in 1, 3 and 5 years. Determine what you want the network topology to be in 1, 3, and 5 years. Do some research and find the equipment that will handle the load in the topology you want in 5 years. That is the gear to use. I understand your current feeling and I do not disagree with your approach. Just be aware that anything you do today without the planning is very likely to also be a throw-away purchase. Use it to get over the current hump, but expect to throw it away when you get to the configuration you want. On 10/14/2010 7:56 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote: I also haven't been in my core router in ages, my template IS by Butch as I stated before, I HAVE had Dennis look at the outages, everyone is stumped, if I can't depend on it I don't want it. THEN I'll have time to route the network. I've used Mikrotik for years and until the load got to high things ran fine, I wish I could make it work but its down just too much. On 10/14/2010 4:18 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: I agree with Travis. Also the thread is about a bandwidth manager, which just like Travis, you would do at the edge between you and your upstream. Your APs, backhauls and other radios can be Ubnt/Canopy/Linksys/etc I would suggest spending the minimal amount of money for the MT router, Butch's template and forget about it. If you do have an issue (IMO it will be something a person did to the network if no one logs into it making changes all the time) you have Butch, Dennis, the list, etc. I can't remember the last time I logged into the core router. When I did, it was to copy some rules to share on a list or ##mikrotik. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net mailto:t...@ida.net wrote: Hi, You need to fix your network, not the hardware/software you are running. I have over 60 Mikrotik backhaul links, with over 1,000 Mikrotik customer radios (plus thousands more Trango and Canopy) and have NONE of the issues you describe. Our main edge router is a Mikrotik box (x86 with Quad core) and it has thousands of rules and NAT translations, moving 450Mbps x 150Mbps on a daily basis, and has been up for over 6 months right now (due only to firmware upgrades). Having your network bridged is the problem. Take time out and fix that, or you will continue to have more and more problems... Travis Microserv On 10/14/2010 4:45 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote: Really Josh, you want me to rehash this? To be simple I'm not a true geek, I barely speak linux and Router OS not at all. Our network of 700 over 12 towers is bridged, a big no-no but I can't keep radios up long enough to make us routed along with the growth sprut we've had this year (we 're averaging 3 installs a day with one installer/field tech). We've found that if you get over 50 on Mikrotik you start getting latency issues, four of our towers have over that. When I was all Mikrotik (well 90% that 10% Moto) it worked great for about a year and a half, then the packet storms started, then radios started doing weird intermittent things like turning off. Sure we did the obvious, change passwords, isolate the radios from the rest of the network but it just started to get worse, probably traffic driven from our ongoing growth that the greater demand for more bandwidth (we are 90% residential so Netflix type stuff). To solve this we started replacing backhauls with Ubiquiti radios. Ubiquiti allows more traffic so the added pressure really started to take down the Mikrotik AP's, ports and bridges now drop with undiagnoisable (new word) regularity. Then the bandwidth manager failed, Butch rebuilt it but for some reason the upgrade to 4.11 made failures happen more often that were like the AP's, dropped ports and bridges. We compensated by making a path on the Ethernet side and in-network side so we could maybe ... (fix the disabled port/bridge) from either end. We are spending all of our time building redundant this and redundant that until we realized one thing, on every outage
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
You're leaving Mikrotik, but... All of my bandwidth management is done at the tower and is performed by Mikrotik. The non-customer facing routers don't do anything but route, though will eventually adopt Butch's QoS I'm sure. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 10/14/2010 5:15 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote: In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions. Thanks, Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
I think it feels like you're walking into the wolves' den because everyone else has such excellent experiences with Mikrotik routing. I can assure you that it's not the load alone that's making Mikrotik flake out. I'm not going to pretend I know your network size or capacity requirements, but Travis runs a network with thousands of users and hundreds of megabits in use at any one time. Brad's network has just as much capacity if not more than Travis. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 10/14/2010 7:13 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote: Again not a true statement, $3000 for a visit by a network administrator to route us (already got the quote), $600 for a packeteer on eBay. Then we can route it ourselves because the network won't drop every day when a piece of crap router drops the ethernet port every time it sees traffic it doesn't like, who designs something like that anyway!? ZERO drops from UBNT gear and it's handling the exact same gear as the Mikrotik did, EXACT same packets. OK ok sorry I'm getting pissed now, going to walk away for the night... I just asked for alternatives, that's all. Didn't mean to walk into the MAC users group and say Windows was better. On 10/14/2010 5:01 PM, Jeromie Reeves wrote: Sounds like you need to have someone come visit the network in person. There has to be a reasonable explination for what is going on your network, and i posit that no device you find is going to work right till that root cause is found. On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: I also haven't been in my core router in ages, my template IS by Butch as I stated before, I HAVE had Dennis look at the outages, everyone is stumped, if I can't depend on it I don't want it. THEN I'll have time to route the network. I've used Mikrotik for years and until the load got to high things ran fine, I wish I could make it work but its down just too much. On 10/14/2010 4:18 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: I agree with Travis. Also the thread is about a bandwidth manager, which just like Travis, you would do at the edge between you and your upstream. Your APs, backhauls and other radios can be Ubnt/Canopy/Linksys/etc I would suggest spending the minimal amount of money for the MT router, Butch's template and forget about it. If you do have an issue (IMO it will be something a person did to the network if no one logs into it making changes all the time) you have Butch, Dennis, the list, etc. I can't remember the last time I logged into the core router. When I did, it was to copy some rules to share on a list or ##mikrotik. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Travis Johnsont...@ida.net wrote: Hi, You need to fix your network, not the hardware/software you are running. I have over 60 Mikrotik backhaul links, with over 1,000 Mikrotik customer radios (plus thousands more Trango and Canopy) and have NONE of the issues you describe. Our main edge router is a Mikrotik box (x86 with Quad core) and it has thousands of rules and NAT translations, moving 450Mbps x 150Mbps on a daily basis, and has been up for over 6 months right now (due only to firmware upgrades). Having your network bridged is the problem. Take time out and fix that, or you will continue to have more and more problems... Travis Microserv On 10/14/2010 4:45 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote: Really Josh, you want me to rehash this? To be simple I'm not a true geek, I barely speak linux and Router OS not at all. Our network of 700 over 12 towers is bridged, a big no-no but I can't keep radios up long enough to make us routed along with the growth sprut we've had this year (we 're averaging 3 installs a day with one installer/field tech). We've found that if you get over 50 on Mikrotik you start getting latency issues, four of our towers have over that. When I was all Mikrotik (well 90% that 10% Moto) it worked great for about a year and a half, then the packet storms started, then radios started doing weird intermittent things like turning off. Sure we did the obvious, change passwords, isolate the radios from the rest of the network but it just started to get worse, probably traffic driven from our ongoing growth that the greater demand for more bandwidth (we are 90% residential so Netflix type stuff). To solve this we started replacing backhauls with Ubiquiti radios. Ubiquiti allows more traffic so the added pressure really started to take down the Mikrotik AP's, ports and bridges now drop with undiagnoisable (new word) regularity. Then the bandwidth manager failed, Butch rebuilt it but for some reason the upgrade to 4.11 made failures happen more often that were like the AP's, dropped ports and bridges. We compensated by making a path on the Ethernet side and in-network side so we could
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
At 10/15/2010 07:45 AM, MikeH wrote: I think it feels like you're walking into the wolves' den because everyone else has such excellent experiences with Mikrotik routing. I can assure you that it's not the load alone that's making Mikrotik flake out. I'm not going to pretend I know your network size or capacity requirements, but Travis runs a network with thousands of users and hundreds of megabits in use at any one time. Brad's network has just as much capacity if not more than Travis. Merely curious at this stage... WHICH model MikroTiks are misbehaving? If it is a CPU speed or memory issue, it could vary based on which generation or specific model of Routerboard is in use. I'm leery of LAN-style bridging. I don't know if it's the case in your network, but traditional LAN bridges let everyone hear everyone else's broadcasts. I much prefer Layer 2 switching. This isn't the same as routing, since it passes IP transparently, but it isolates users from one another and uses VLAN tags rather than MAC addresses. I have a hunch (and may be *all wet*; this is NOT based on actual knowledge, as I am not a coder and couldn't decipher a driver if you laid it out on a silver platter in front of me) that bridging, with MAC addresses, uses certain hardware features that are bypassed in switching, where it might do more in software. This would have been a bad idea 20 years ago when CPUs were slow and RAM was expensive... Maybe turning on VLAN tagging could help. Just guessing! -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
Well I really don't feel good saying TrafficXpress or whatever their latest incarnation is from Logisense, but see if that is something that you can use. -- Original Message -- From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 16:40:21 -0700 Ya know I'd be a lot more patient for the smart a$$ comments if I didn't have to live through this, I've hired the best guys on this list to solve it and the only answer I get in the end is that shouldn't happen. I can be non-geek enough to know if I can't hire the fix it ain't gonna work. All the loyalists to a certain brand be it Mikrotik or Mac users can either say 'if he can't make that work here's our suggestion' or come sit in my chair for a while and wait for the hundreds of calls when a piece of gear just drops for no reason. I've avoided Windows like the plague and run a 100% linux back end, every ISP I bought I converted to my format, you don't have to tell me horror stories I've been in this business since the beginning. I'm inferring to a more GUI type interface, hell it could be redhat for all I know, I'm looking for solutions not preferences. On 10/14/2010 4:27 PM, Jeremy Parr wrote: Splendid idea there guy, replace Mikrotik with a Windows box. Gotta wonder I'd the problem is between the keyboard and the chair here. On 10/14/10, Forbes Mercyforbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions. Thanks, Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Sent via the WebMail system at avolve.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
NETEQ or PFSense On 10/15/2010 10:34 AM, Stuart Pierce wrote: Well I really don't feel good saying TrafficXpress or whatever their latest incarnation is from Logisense, but see if that is something that you can use. -- Original Message -- From: Forbes Mercyforbes.me...@wabroadband.com Reply-To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 16:40:21 -0700 Ya know I'd be a lot more patient for the smart a$$ comments if I didn't have to live through this, I've hired the best guys on this list to solve it and the only answer I get in the end is that shouldn't happen. I can be non-geek enough to know if I can't hire the fix it ain't gonna work. All the loyalists to a certain brand be it Mikrotik or Mac users can either say 'if he can't make that work here's our suggestion' or come sit in my chair for a while and wait for the hundreds of calls when a piece of gear just drops for no reason. I've avoided Windows like the plague and run a 100% linux back end, every ISP I bought I converted to my format, you don't have to tell me horror stories I've been in this business since the beginning. I'm inferring to a more GUI type interface, hell it could be redhat for all I know, I'm looking for solutions not preferences. On 10/14/2010 4:27 PM, Jeremy Parr wrote: Splendid idea there guy, replace Mikrotik with a Windows box. Gotta wonder I'd the problem is between the keyboard and the chair here. On 10/14/10, Forbes Mercyforbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions. Thanks, Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Sent via the WebMail system at avolve.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Tim Steele supp...@nitline.com NITLine Support (574) 772-7550 ext 103 www.NITLine.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
Dennis has been around for a very long time. http://www.etinc.com/ marlon - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:15 PM Subject: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions. Thanks, Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
Run... run far far away... We ran an ETINC box for many years, until we couldn't take his support and attitude any longer... or his nazi licensing system. Travis Microserv On 10/15/2010 10:36 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Dennis has been around for a very long time. http://www.etinc.com/ marlon - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercyforbes.me...@wabroadband.com To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:15 PM Subject: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions. Thanks, Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 11:36, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Dennis has been around for a very long time. http://www.etinc.com/ I remember owning one of these, a long time ago. We had to pull it not because of any issues with the software, but because of (indirect) hardware problems. We used to not ground things as well as we do now. The system we had had a PCI four-port Ethernet card installed, and over time lightning rendered enough of the interfaces inoperable that we could no longer use the system for that. (At the time, nobody in my office knew very much about FreeBSD or NetBSD or whichever BSD it used, so replacing the card and simply changing the interfaces' MACs in software wasn't feasible.) From what I recall, the fact that you had a choice of both Web interfaces or scriptable CLI to set up a bunch of rules quickly was nice, and this was over eight years ago; I'm sure the product has improved greatly since then. (For the record, we now use Mikrotik for bandwidth shaping. Nothing against ETInc, as such, we've just moved on.) David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
The response to my request has been overwhelming, this morning it was amazing, response after great response. Because of the strong insistence that Mikrotik is so great we are trying to make it work. Dennis helped a lot by setting up remote sys log using software we already have. We are setting up Network Monitoring, as we speak and we are already catching some culprits that have been causing a little havoc. With our upgrade to 100MB next week we wanted hardware that can handle it, this is a learning process and we're so happy to have had the help in better understanding networks. We won't overreact and just dump Mikrotik but now with the ability to maybe catch what's causing the problem we can rest a little easier knowing that when it happens, and it will, we can read the log file and hope it's something so simple we'll just kick ourselves, as Dennis said, we hope so. The offers for help included three members committing to fly up there this weekend if we need them, Wow what a great group of people here! Thanks to everyone for their help, it's the best of WISPA when everyone pitches in to help a WISP in trouble. Forbes Mercy President - Washington Broadband, Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
I am in 100% agreement with Travis on this. We had the EXACT same experience. * Larry A. Weidig (lwei...@excel.net) * Excel.Net,Inc. - http://www.excel.net/ * (920) 452-0455 - Sheboygan/Plymouth area * (888) 489-9995 - Other areas, toll-free -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 11:47 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager Run... run far far away... We ran an ETINC box for many years, until we couldn't take his support and attitude any longer... or his nazi licensing system. Travis Microserv On 10/15/2010 10:36 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Dennis has been around for a very long time. http://www.etinc.com/ marlon - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercyforbes.me...@wabroadband.com To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:15 PM Subject: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions. Thanks, Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
I can respect your frustration, Forbes. Some may remember a thread that I brought up Is RIP Stable because our network engineer swore up down that RIP was flaky between two sites and the upstream router was dropping all the routes to this site every few minutes etc etc etc yada yada yada blah blah blah. Knowing that it just didn't seem right, I told him that something is configured incorrectly and that's that. I made our manager sit down with him and watch him go over the RIP config line by line. Since Mikrotik doesn't allow you to put comments on each network or neighbor statement, had to look up each IP in our documentation. Was time-consuming, but he found HIS mistake. ;) My point is, keep working from your edge back and you'll find it. Persistence. Good luck. Mark - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 10:12 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager The response to my request has been overwhelming, this morning it was amazing, response after great response. Because of the strong insistence that Mikrotik is so great we are trying to make it work. Dennis helped a lot by setting up remote sys log using software we already have. We are setting up Network Monitoring, as we speak and we are already catching some culprits that have been causing a little havoc. With our upgrade to 100MB next week we wanted hardware that can handle it, this is a learning process and we're so happy to have had the help in better understanding networks. We won't overreact and just dump Mikrotik but now with the ability to maybe catch what's causing the problem we can rest a little easier knowing that when it happens, and it will, we can read the log file and hope it's something so simple we'll just kick ourselves, as Dennis said, we hope so. The offers for help included three members committing to fly up there this weekend if we need them, Wow what a great group of people here! Thanks to everyone for their help, it's the best of WISPA when everyone pitches in to help a WISP in trouble. Forbes Mercy President - Washington Broadband, Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
Yeah, his attitude has cost him a LOT of business over the years. He and I had a number of long talks about that quite some time back and it seemed like he was getting better. How long has it been since you've worked with him? BTW, according to his site, a license for his software is only $500 right now. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager Run... run far far away... We ran an ETINC box for many years, until we couldn't take his support and attitude any longer... or his nazi licensing system. Travis Microserv On 10/15/2010 10:36 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Dennis has been around for a very long time. http://www.etinc.com/ marlon - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercyforbes.me...@wabroadband.com To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:15 PM Subject: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions. Thanks, Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
I agree, when I first came to work for my current employer he had etinc bandwidth managers.. We ended up calling him the bandwidth nazi.. he was horrible to deal with and thought that everyone was stupid and treated you that way.. Ryan On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Run... run far far away... We ran an ETINC box for many years, until we couldn't take his support and attitude any longer... or his nazi licensing system. Travis Microserv On 10/15/2010 10:36 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Dennis has been around for a very long time. http://www.etinc.com/ marlon - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercyforbes.me...@wabroadband.com To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:15 PM Subject: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions. Thanks, Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Ryan Ghering Network Operations - Plains.Net Office: 970-848-0475 - Cell: 970-630-1879 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
No Bandwidth Management for you.2 weeks! _ From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 12:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager Run... run far far away... We ran an ETINC box for many years, until we couldn't take his support and attitude any longer... or his nazi licensing system. Travis Microserv On 10/15/2010 10:36 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Dennis has been around for a very long time. http://www.etinc.com/ marlon - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercyforbes.me...@wabroadband.com To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:15 PM Subject: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions. Thanks, Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ _ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1136 / Virus Database: 422/3198 - Release Date: 10/15/10 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
We had an ETINC box as well, I second what Travis says. Except it was actually worse than Travis describes. Avoid at all costs. - Dan On 10/15/2010 8:47 AM, Travis Johnson wrote: Run... run far far away... We ran an ETINC box for many years, until we couldn't take his support and attitude any longer... or his nazi licensing system. Travis Microserv On 10/15/2010 10:36 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Dennis has been around for a very long time. http://www.etinc.com/ marlon - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercyforbes.me...@wabroadband.com To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:15 PM Subject: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions. Thanks, Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
I cannot imagine how someone can charge what this guy does for a basic front end to pf in bsd. You could hire someone to write something for much less ... amazing vyatta does bandwidth shaping in their paid product - but in my humble opinion - it is lacking big time. pfsense does it - as well - much nicer On Oct 15, 2010, at 9:41 PM, Dan Ferguson wrote: We had an ETINC box as well, I second what Travis says. Except it was actually worse than Travis describes. Avoid at all costs. - Dan On 10/15/2010 8:47 AM, Travis Johnson wrote: Run... run far far away... We ran an ETINC box for many years, until we couldn't take his support and attitude any longer... or his nazi licensing system. Travis Microserv On 10/15/2010 10:36 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Dennis has been around for a very long time. http://www.etinc.com/ marlon - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercyforbes.me...@wabroadband.com To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:15 PM Subject: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions. Thanks, Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ _ Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com Email: gl...@hostmedic.com Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
Hrm why doesn't Mikrotik work? On Oct 14, 2010 6:15 PM, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions. Thanks, Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
You want to base your network traffic on a windows based machine?? I wouldn't put the life of my network dependent on a windows box for ANY REASON... EVER.. Thats just suicide.. Why not just build a more stable x86 mikrotik router?? Our main mikrotik bridge for bandwidth management is a quad zeon 16 gig ram and (4) 4 port mikrotik gigabit eth cards. I've yet to have to reboot it in the year and 3 months its been online, its got all the horsepower it needs. (BTW the server is a rackable systems box if ya care) And its doing queuing for our entire /20 of which I've got about 3500 address's used. Ryan On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.comwrote: In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions. Thanks, Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Ryan Ghering Network Operations - Plains.Net Office: 970-848-0475 - Cell: 970-630-1879 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
more friendly windows type based unit Forbes, are you sure you are not jumping from the hot frying pan into the Fire ? :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 10/14/2010 6:15 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote: In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions. Thanks, Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
Really Josh, you want me to rehash this? To be simple I'm not a true geek, I barely speak linux and Router OS not at all. Our network of 700 over 12 towers is bridged, a big no-no but I can't keep radios up long enough to make us routed along with the growth sprut we've had this year (we 're averaging 3 installs a day with one installer/field tech). We've found that if you get over 50 on Mikrotik you start getting latency issues, four of our towers have over that. When I was all Mikrotik (well 90% that 10% Moto) it worked great for about a year and a half, then the packet storms started, then radios started doing weird intermittent things like turning off. Sure we did the obvious, change passwords, isolate the radios from the rest of the network but it just started to get worse, probably traffic driven from our ongoing growth that the greater demand for more bandwidth (we are 90% residential so Netflix type stuff). To solve this we started replacing backhauls with Ubiquiti radios. Ubiquiti allows more traffic so the added pressure really started to take down the Mikrotik AP's, ports and bridges now drop with undiagnoisable (new word) regularity. Then the bandwidth manager failed, Butch rebuilt it but for some reason the upgrade to 4.11 made failures happen more often that were like the AP's, dropped ports and bridges. We compensated by making a path on the Ethernet side and in-network side so we could maybe ... (fix the disabled port/bridge) from either end. We are spending all of our time building redundant this and redundant that until we realized one thing, on every outage Mikrotik's had cascading failures shutting down ports or turning off radios (disabling) meanwhile Ubiquiti never went down, ever. So we started pulling all Mikrotik backhauls, now we only lose AP's and the bandwidth manager. Since the bandwidth manager takes the entire network down we want replace it. Now you're up to speed on where we are, I call Mikrotik my 'backwards momentum' mover, we have to stop our forward motion on building and installing so we can restore service, it takes the fun out of this business thats for sure. Forbes On 10/14/2010 3:17 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Hrm why doesn't Mikrotik work? On Oct 14, 2010 6:15 PM, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com mailto:forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions. Thanks, Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
Ask Butch, we have a kick-ass Bandwidth manager machine, it's no good when it disables it's ports or bridge randomly. NO traffic over the Internet should have the ability to shut down the OS, Mikrotik does, Ubiquiti doesn't, simple as that. On 10/14/2010 3:44 PM, Ryan Ghering wrote: You want to base your network traffic on a windows based machine?? I wouldn't put the life of my network dependent on a windows box for ANY REASON... EVER.. Thats just suicide.. Why not just build a more stable x86 mikrotik router?? Our main mikrotik bridge for bandwidth management is a quad zeon 16 gig ram and (4) 4 port mikrotik gigabit eth cards. I've yet to have to reboot it in the year and 3 months its been online, its got all the horsepower it needs. (BTW the server is a rackable systems box if ya care) And its doing queuing for our entire /20 of which I've got about 3500 address's used. Ryan On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com mailto:forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions. Thanks, Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Ryan Ghering Network Operations - Plains.Net Office: 970-848-0475 - Cell: 970-630-1879 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
As I said myself windows is suicide.. If you want an easy to use solution for bandwidth management I'd check out a used packeteer from ebay first.. We origionally bought 3 45meg packetshaper 4500's for our network from ebay and they worked very well for over 5 years, however our billing system now has integration with mikrotik router os so we use it now.. Ryan On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 4:45 PM, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.comwrote: Really Josh, you want me to rehash this? To be simple I'm not a true geek, I barely speak linux and Router OS not at all. Our network of 700 over 12 towers is bridged, a big no-no but I can't keep radios up long enough to make us routed along with the growth sprut we've had this year (we 're averaging 3 installs a day with one installer/field tech). We've found that if you get over 50 on Mikrotik you start getting latency issues, four of our towers have over that. When I was all Mikrotik (well 90% that 10% Moto) it worked great for about a year and a half, then the packet storms started, then radios started doing weird intermittent things like turning off. Sure we did the obvious, change passwords, isolate the radios from the rest of the network but it just started to get worse, probably traffic driven from our ongoing growth that the greater demand for more bandwidth (we are 90% residential so Netflix type stuff). To solve this we started replacing backhauls with Ubiquiti radios. Ubiquiti allows more traffic so the added pressure really started to take down the Mikrotik AP's, ports and bridges now drop with undiagnoisable (new word) regularity. Then the bandwidth manager failed, Butch rebuilt it but for some reason the upgrade to 4.11 made failures happen more often that were like the AP's, dropped ports and bridges. We compensated by making a path on the Ethernet side and in-network side so we could maybe ... (fix the disabled port/bridge) from either end. We are spending all of our time building redundant this and redundant that until we realized one thing, on every outage Mikrotik's had cascading failures shutting down ports or turning off radios (disabling) meanwhile Ubiquiti never went down, ever. So we started pulling all Mikrotik backhauls, now we only lose AP's and the bandwidth manager. Since the bandwidth manager takes the entire network down we want replace it. Now you're up to speed on where we are, I call Mikrotik my 'backwards momentum' mover, we have to stop our forward motion on building and installing so we can restore service, it takes the fun out of this business thats for sure. Forbes On 10/14/2010 3:17 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Hrm why doesn't Mikrotik work? On Oct 14, 2010 6:15 PM, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions. Thanks, Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Ryan Ghering Network Operations - Plains.Net Office: 970-848-0475 - Cell: 970-630-1879 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
We used Packeteer prior to MikroTik for bandwidth management. Packeteer arguably makes one of if not the finest bandwidth manager availablebut you pay for it! I'd take a closer look at your MikoTik configurations and/or hardware before springing for a bunch of $10k+ Packeteers...Just my opinion. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Forbes Mercy Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 5:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions. Thanks, Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
I agree with you btw on the ubnt radios.. we LOVE them.. But we've also never used mikkrotik for ap's or BH's either.. Ryan On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 4:47 PM, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.comwrote: Ask Butch, we have a kick-ass Bandwidth manager machine, it's no good when it disables it's ports or bridge randomly. NO traffic over the Internet should have the ability to shut down the OS, Mikrotik does, Ubiquiti doesn't, simple as that. On 10/14/2010 3:44 PM, Ryan Ghering wrote: You want to base your network traffic on a windows based machine?? I wouldn't put the life of my network dependent on a windows box for ANY REASON... EVER.. Thats just suicide.. Why not just build a more stable x86 mikrotik router?? Our main mikrotik bridge for bandwidth management is a quad zeon 16 gig ram and (4) 4 port mikrotik gigabit eth cards. I've yet to have to reboot it in the year and 3 months its been online, its got all the horsepower it needs. (BTW the server is a rackable systems box if ya care) And its doing queuing for our entire /20 of which I've got about 3500 address's used. Ryan On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions. Thanks, Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Ryan Ghering Network Operations - Plains.Net Office: 970-848-0475 - Cell: 970-630-1879 WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Ryan Ghering Network Operations - Plains.Net Office: 970-848-0475 - Cell: 970-630-1879 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
Hi, You need to fix your network, not the hardware/software you are running. I have over 60 Mikrotik backhaul links, with over 1,000 Mikrotik customer radios (plus thousands more Trango and Canopy) and have NONE of the issues you describe. Our main edge router is a Mikrotik box (x86 with Quad core) and it has thousands of rules and NAT translations, moving 450Mbps x 150Mbps on a daily basis, and has been up for over 6 months right now (due only to firmware upgrades). Having your network bridged is the problem. Take time out and fix that, or you will continue to have more and more problems... Travis Microserv On 10/14/2010 4:45 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote: Really Josh, you want me to rehash this? To be simple I'm not a true geek, I barely speak linux and Router OS not at all. Our network of 700 over 12 towers is bridged, a big no-no but I can't keep radios up long enough to make us routed along with the growth sprut we've had this year (we 're averaging 3 installs a day with one installer/field tech). We've found that if you get over 50 on Mikrotik you start getting latency issues, four of our towers have over that. When I was all Mikrotik (well 90% that 10% Moto) it worked great for about a year and a half, then the packet storms started, then radios started doing weird intermittent things like turning off. Sure we did the obvious, change passwords, isolate the radios from the rest of the network but it just started to get worse, probably traffic driven from our ongoing growth that the greater demand for more bandwidth (we are 90% residential so Netflix type stuff). To solve this we started replacing backhauls with Ubiquiti radios. Ubiquiti allows more traffic so the added pressure really started to take down the Mikrotik AP's, ports and bridges now drop with undiagnoisable (new word) regularity. Then the bandwidth manager failed, Butch rebuilt it but for some reason the upgrade to 4.11 made failures happen more often that were like the AP's, dropped ports and bridges. We compensated by making a path on the Ethernet side and in-network side so we could maybe ... (fix the disabled port/bridge) from either end. We are spending all of our time building redundant this and redundant that until we realized one thing, on every outage Mikrotik's had cascading failures shutting down ports or turning off radios (disabling) meanwhile Ubiquiti never went down, ever. So we started pulling all Mikrotik backhauls, now we only lose AP's and the bandwidth manager. Since the bandwidth manager takes the entire network down we want replace it. Now you're up to speed on where we are, I call Mikrotik my 'backwards momentum' mover, we have to stop our forward motion on building and installing so we can restore service, it takes the fun out of this business thats for sure. Forbes On 10/14/2010 3:17 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Hrm why doesn't Mikrotik work? On Oct 14, 2010 6:15 PM, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com mailto:forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions. Thanks, Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
Can you recommend a routing configuration because we currently run some bridging and I am curious as to what your recommendations would be. How do you do the bandwidth shaping if you are routing from local tower sites directly? Thanks, David From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 6:53 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager Hi, You need to fix your network, not the hardware/software you are running. I have over 60 Mikrotik backhaul links, with over 1,000 Mikrotik customer radios (plus thousands more Trango and Canopy) and have NONE of the issues you describe. Our main edge router is a Mikrotik box (x86 with Quad core) and it has thousands of rules and NAT translations, moving 450Mbps x 150Mbps on a daily basis, and has been up for over 6 months right now (due only to firmware upgrades). Having your network bridged is the problem. Take time out and fix that, or you will continue to have more and more problems... Travis Microserv On 10/14/2010 4:45 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote: Really Josh, you want me to rehash this? To be simple I'm not a true geek, I barely speak linux and Router OS not at all. Our network of 700 over 12 towers is bridged, a big no-no but I can't keep radios up long enough to make us routed along with the growth sprut we've had this year (we 're averaging 3 installs a day with one installer/field tech). We've found that if you get over 50 on Mikrotik you start getting latency issues, four of our towers have over that. When I was all Mikrotik (well 90% that 10% Moto) it worked great for about a year and a half, then the packet storms started, then radios started doing weird intermittent things like turning off. Sure we did the obvious, change passwords, isolate the radios from the rest of the network but it just started to get worse, probably traffic driven from our ongoing growth that the greater demand for more bandwidth (we are 90% residential so Netflix type stuff). To solve this we started replacing backhauls with Ubiquiti radios. Ubiquiti allows more traffic so the added pressure really started to take down the Mikrotik AP's, ports and bridges now drop with undiagnoisable (new word) regularity. Then the bandwidth manager failed, Butch rebuilt it but for some reason the upgrade to 4.11 made failures happen more often that were like the AP's, dropped ports and bridges. We compensated by making a path on the Ethernet side and in-network side so we could maybe ... (fix the disabled port/bridge) from either end. We are spending all of our time building redundant this and redundant that until we realized one thing, on every outage Mikrotik's had cascading failures shutting down ports or turning off radios (disabling) meanwhile Ubiquiti never went down, ever. So we started pulling all Mikrotik backhauls, now we only lose AP's and the bandwidth manager. Since the bandwidth manager takes the entire network down we want replace it. Now you're up to speed on where we are, I call Mikrotik my 'backwards momentum' mover, we have to stop our forward motion on building and installing so we can restore service, it takes the fun out of this business thats for sure. Forbes On 10/14/2010 3:17 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Hrm why doesn't Mikrotik work? On Oct 14, 2010 6:15 PM, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions. Thanks, Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
I agree with Travis. Also the thread is about a bandwidth manager, which just like Travis, you would do at the edge between you and your upstream. Your APs, backhauls and other radios can be Ubnt/Canopy/Linksys/etc I would suggest spending the minimal amount of money for the MT router, Butch's template and forget about it. If you do have an issue (IMO it will be something a person did to the network if no one logs into it making changes all the time) you have Butch, Dennis, the list, etc. I can't remember the last time I logged into the core router. When I did, it was to copy some rules to share on a list or ##mikrotik. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Hi, You need to fix your network, not the hardware/software you are running. I have over 60 Mikrotik backhaul links, with over 1,000 Mikrotik customer radios (plus thousands more Trango and Canopy) and have NONE of the issues you describe. Our main edge router is a Mikrotik box (x86 with Quad core) and it has thousands of rules and NAT translations, moving 450Mbps x 150Mbps on a daily basis, and has been up for over 6 months right now (due only to firmware upgrades). Having your network bridged is the problem. Take time out and fix that, or you will continue to have more and more problems... Travis Microserv On 10/14/2010 4:45 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote: Really Josh, you want me to rehash this? To be simple I'm not a true geek, I barely speak linux and Router OS not at all. Our network of 700 over 12 towers is bridged, a big no-no but I can't keep radios up long enough to make us routed along with the growth sprut we've had this year (we 're averaging 3 installs a day with one installer/field tech). We've found that if you get over 50 on Mikrotik you start getting latency issues, four of our towers have over that. When I was all Mikrotik (well 90% that 10% Moto) it worked great for about a year and a half, then the packet storms started, then radios started doing weird intermittent things like turning off. Sure we did the obvious, change passwords, isolate the radios from the rest of the network but it just started to get worse, probably traffic driven from our ongoing growth that the greater demand for more bandwidth (we are 90% residential so Netflix type stuff). To solve this we started replacing backhauls with Ubiquiti radios. Ubiquiti allows more traffic so the added pressure really started to take down the Mikrotik AP's, ports and bridges now drop with undiagnoisable (new word) regularity. Then the bandwidth manager failed, Butch rebuilt it but for some reason the upgrade to 4.11 made failures happen more often that were like the AP's, dropped ports and bridges. We compensated by making a path on the Ethernet side and in-network side so we could maybe ... (fix the disabled port/bridge) from either end. We are spending all of our time building redundant this and redundant that until we realized one thing, on every outage Mikrotik's had cascading failures shutting down ports or turning off radios (disabling) meanwhile Ubiquiti never went down, ever. So we started pulling all Mikrotik backhauls, now we only lose AP's and the bandwidth manager. Since the bandwidth manager takes the entire network down we want replace it. Now you're up to speed on where we are, I call Mikrotik my 'backwards momentum' mover, we have to stop our forward motion on building and installing so we can restore service, it takes the fun out of this business thats for sure. Forbes On 10/14/2010 3:17 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Hrm why doesn't Mikrotik work? On Oct 14, 2010 6:15 PM, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions. Thanks, Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
Over 50 and you get latency issues ? -- Original Message -- From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 15:45:32 -0700 Really Josh, you want me to rehash this? To be simple I'm not a true geek, I barely speak linux and Router OS not at all. Our network of 700 over 12 towers is bridged, a big no-no but I can't keep radios up long enough to make us routed along with the growth sprut we've had this year (we 're averaging 3 installs a day with one installer/field tech). We've found that if you get over 50 on Mikrotik you start getting latency issues, four of our towers have over that. When I was all Mikrotik (well 90% that 10% Moto) it worked great for about a year and a half, then the packet storms started, then radios started doing weird intermittent things like turning off. Sure we did the obvious, change passwords, isolate the radios from the rest of the network but it just started to get worse, probably traffic driven from our ongoing growth that the greater demand for more bandwidth (we are 90% residential so Netflix type stuff). To solve this we started replacing backhauls with Ubiquiti radios. Ubiquiti allows more traffic so the added pressure really started to take down the Mikrotik AP's, ports and bridges now drop with undiagnoisable (new word) regularity. Then the bandwidth manager failed, Butch rebuilt it but for some reason the upgrade to 4.11 made failures happen more often that were like the AP's, dropped ports and bridges. We compensated by making a path on the Ethernet side and in-network side so we could maybe ... (fix the disabled port/bridge) from either end. We are spending all of our time building redundant this and redundant that until we realized one thing, on every outage Mikrotik's had cascading failures shutting down ports or turning off radios (disabling) meanwhile Ubiquiti never went down, ever. So we started pulling all Mikrotik backhauls, now we only lose AP's and the bandwidth manager. Since the bandwidth manager takes the entire network down we want replace it. Now you're up to speed on where we are, I call Mikrotik my 'backwards momentum' mover, we have to stop our forward motion on building and installing so we can restore service, it takes the fun out of this business thats for sure. Forbes On 10/14/2010 3:17 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Hrm why doesn't Mikrotik work? On Oct 14, 2010 6:15 PM, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com mailto:forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions. Thanks, Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Sent via the WebMail system at avolve.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
Splendid idea there guy, replace Mikrotik with a Windows box. Gotta wonder I'd the problem is between the keyboard and the chair here. On 10/14/10, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions. Thanks, Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Sent from my mobile device WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
I believe he is looking for an easier interface. Not the Windows kernel on the hardware doing the job. On Oct 14, 2010 7:27 PM, Jeremy Parr jeremyp...@gmail.com wrote: Splendid idea there guy, replace Mikrotik with a Windows box. Gotta wonder I'd the problem is between the keyboard and the chair here. On 10/14/10, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions. Thanks, Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Sent from my mobile device WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
Ya know I'd be a lot more patient for the smart a$$ comments if I didn't have to live through this, I've hired the best guys on this list to solve it and the only answer I get in the end is that shouldn't happen. I can be non-geek enough to know if I can't hire the fix it ain't gonna work. All the loyalists to a certain brand be it Mikrotik or Mac users can either say 'if he can't make that work here's our suggestion' or come sit in my chair for a while and wait for the hundreds of calls when a piece of gear just drops for no reason. I've avoided Windows like the plague and run a 100% linux back end, every ISP I bought I converted to my format, you don't have to tell me horror stories I've been in this business since the beginning. I'm inferring to a more GUI type interface, hell it could be redhat for all I know, I'm looking for solutions not preferences. On 10/14/2010 4:27 PM, Jeremy Parr wrote: Splendid idea there guy, replace Mikrotik with a Windows box. Gotta wonder I'd the problem is between the keyboard and the chair here. On 10/14/10, Forbes Mercyforbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions. Thanks, Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
I also haven't been in my core router in ages, my template IS by Butch as I stated before, I HAVE had Dennis look at the outages, everyone is stumped, if I can't depend on it I don't want it. THEN I'll have time to route the network. I've used Mikrotik for years and until the load got to high things ran fine, I wish I could make it work but its down just too much. On 10/14/2010 4:18 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: I agree with Travis. Also the thread is about a bandwidth manager, which just like Travis, you would do at the edge between you and your upstream. Your APs, backhauls and other radios can be Ubnt/Canopy/Linksys/etc I would suggest spending the minimal amount of money for the MT router, Butch's template and forget about it. If you do have an issue (IMO it will be something a person did to the network if no one logs into it making changes all the time) you have Butch, Dennis, the list, etc. I can't remember the last time I logged into the core router. When I did, it was to copy some rules to share on a list or ##mikrotik. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net mailto:t...@ida.net wrote: Hi, You need to fix your network, not the hardware/software you are running. I have over 60 Mikrotik backhaul links, with over 1,000 Mikrotik customer radios (plus thousands more Trango and Canopy) and have NONE of the issues you describe. Our main edge router is a Mikrotik box (x86 with Quad core) and it has thousands of rules and NAT translations, moving 450Mbps x 150Mbps on a daily basis, and has been up for over 6 months right now (due only to firmware upgrades). Having your network bridged is the problem. Take time out and fix that, or you will continue to have more and more problems... Travis Microserv On 10/14/2010 4:45 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote: Really Josh, you want me to rehash this? To be simple I'm not a true geek, I barely speak linux and Router OS not at all. Our network of 700 over 12 towers is bridged, a big no-no but I can't keep radios up long enough to make us routed along with the growth sprut we've had this year (we 're averaging 3 installs a day with one installer/field tech). We've found that if you get over 50 on Mikrotik you start getting latency issues, four of our towers have over that. When I was all Mikrotik (well 90% that 10% Moto) it worked great for about a year and a half, then the packet storms started, then radios started doing weird intermittent things like turning off. Sure we did the obvious, change passwords, isolate the radios from the rest of the network but it just started to get worse, probably traffic driven from our ongoing growth that the greater demand for more bandwidth (we are 90% residential so Netflix type stuff). To solve this we started replacing backhauls with Ubiquiti radios. Ubiquiti allows more traffic so the added pressure really started to take down the Mikrotik AP's, ports and bridges now drop with undiagnoisable (new word) regularity. Then the bandwidth manager failed, Butch rebuilt it but for some reason the upgrade to 4.11 made failures happen more often that were like the AP's, dropped ports and bridges. We compensated by making a path on the Ethernet side and in-network side so we could maybe ... (fix the disabled port/bridge) from either end. We are spending all of our time building redundant this and redundant that until we realized one thing, on every outage Mikrotik's had cascading failures shutting down ports or turning off radios (disabling) meanwhile Ubiquiti never went down, ever. So we started pulling all Mikrotik backhauls, now we only lose AP's and the bandwidth manager. Since the bandwidth manager takes the entire network down we want replace it. Now you're up to speed on where we are, I call Mikrotik my 'backwards momentum' mover, we have to stop our forward motion on building and installing so we can restore service, it takes the fun out of this business thats for sure. Forbes On 10/14/2010 3:17 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Hrm why doesn't Mikrotik work? On Oct 14, 2010 6:15 PM, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com mailto:forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions. Thanks, Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
Sounds like you need to have someone come visit the network in person. There has to be a reasonable explination for what is going on your network, and i posit that no device you find is going to work right till that root cause is found. On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: I also haven't been in my core router in ages, my template IS by Butch as I stated before, I HAVE had Dennis look at the outages, everyone is stumped, if I can't depend on it I don't want it. THEN I'll have time to route the network. I've used Mikrotik for years and until the load got to high things ran fine, I wish I could make it work but its down just too much. On 10/14/2010 4:18 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: I agree with Travis. Also the thread is about a bandwidth manager, which just like Travis, you would do at the edge between you and your upstream. Your APs, backhauls and other radios can be Ubnt/Canopy/Linksys/etc I would suggest spending the minimal amount of money for the MT router, Butch's template and forget about it. If you do have an issue (IMO it will be something a person did to the network if no one logs into it making changes all the time) you have Butch, Dennis, the list, etc. I can't remember the last time I logged into the core router. When I did, it was to copy some rules to share on a list or ##mikrotik. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Hi, You need to fix your network, not the hardware/software you are running. I have over 60 Mikrotik backhaul links, with over 1,000 Mikrotik customer radios (plus thousands more Trango and Canopy) and have NONE of the issues you describe. Our main edge router is a Mikrotik box (x86 with Quad core) and it has thousands of rules and NAT translations, moving 450Mbps x 150Mbps on a daily basis, and has been up for over 6 months right now (due only to firmware upgrades). Having your network bridged is the problem. Take time out and fix that, or you will continue to have more and more problems... Travis Microserv On 10/14/2010 4:45 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote: Really Josh, you want me to rehash this? To be simple I'm not a true geek, I barely speak linux and Router OS not at all. Our network of 700 over 12 towers is bridged, a big no-no but I can't keep radios up long enough to make us routed along with the growth sprut we've had this year (we 're averaging 3 installs a day with one installer/field tech). We've found that if you get over 50 on Mikrotik you start getting latency issues, four of our towers have over that. When I was all Mikrotik (well 90% that 10% Moto) it worked great for about a year and a half, then the packet storms started, then radios started doing weird intermittent things like turning off. Sure we did the obvious, change passwords, isolate the radios from the rest of the network but it just started to get worse, probably traffic driven from our ongoing growth that the greater demand for more bandwidth (we are 90% residential so Netflix type stuff). To solve this we started replacing backhauls with Ubiquiti radios. Ubiquiti allows more traffic so the added pressure really started to take down the Mikrotik AP's, ports and bridges now drop with undiagnoisable (new word) regularity. Then the bandwidth manager failed, Butch rebuilt it but for some reason the upgrade to 4.11 made failures happen more often that were like the AP's, dropped ports and bridges. We compensated by making a path on the Ethernet side and in-network side so we could maybe ... (fix the disabled port/bridge) from either end. We are spending all of our time building redundant this and redundant that until we realized one thing, on every outage Mikrotik's had cascading failures shutting down ports or turning off radios (disabling) meanwhile Ubiquiti never went down, ever. So we started pulling all Mikrotik backhauls, now we only lose AP's and the bandwidth manager. Since the bandwidth manager takes the entire network down we want replace it. Now you're up to speed on where we are, I call Mikrotik my 'backwards momentum' mover, we have to stop our forward motion on building and installing so we can restore service, it takes the fun out of this business thats for sure. Forbes On 10/14/2010 3:17 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Hrm why doesn't Mikrotik work? On Oct 14, 2010 6:15 PM, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions. Thanks, Forbes WISPA Wants You!
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
Forbes, I am not stumped, but the simple fact is that we don't have enough information to make a final fix. So, be sure here, that we are not stumped, the information has not came in to find out why. I think mike was suppose to work with one of your guys, I will have to find out where they left off. You want the help, then we are here. --- Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training http://www.onlinemikrotiktraining.com/ - Author of Learn RouterOS http://routerosbook.com/ From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Forbes Mercy Sent: October 14, 2010 6:57 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager I also haven't been in my core router in ages, my template IS by Butch as I stated before, I HAVE had Dennis look at the outages, everyone is stumped, if I can't depend on it I don't want it. THEN I'll have time to route the network. I've used Mikrotik for years and until the load got to high things ran fine, I wish I could make it work but its down just too much. On 10/14/2010 4:18 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: I agree with Travis. Also the thread is about a bandwidth manager, which just like Travis, you would do at the edge between you and your upstream. Your APs, backhauls and other radios can be Ubnt/Canopy/Linksys/etc I would suggest spending the minimal amount of money for the MT router, Butch's template and forget about it. If you do have an issue (IMO it will be something a person did to the network if no one logs into it making changes all the time) you have Butch, Dennis, the list, etc. I can't remember the last time I logged into the core router. When I did, it was to copy some rules to share on a list or ##mikrotik. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Hi, You need to fix your network, not the hardware/software you are running. I have over 60 Mikrotik backhaul links, with over 1,000 Mikrotik customer radios (plus thousands more Trango and Canopy) and have NONE of the issues you describe. Our main edge router is a Mikrotik box (x86 with Quad core) and it has thousands of rules and NAT translations, moving 450Mbps x 150Mbps on a daily basis, and has been up for over 6 months right now (due only to firmware upgrades). Having your network bridged is the problem. Take time out and fix that, or you will continue to have more and more problems... Travis Microserv On 10/14/2010 4:45 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote: Really Josh, you want me to rehash this? To be simple I'm not a true geek, I barely speak linux and Router OS not at all. Our network of 700 over 12 towers is bridged, a big no-no but I can't keep radios up long enough to make us routed along with the growth sprut we've had this year (we 're averaging 3 installs a day with one installer/field tech). We've found that if you get over 50 on Mikrotik you start getting latency issues, four of our towers have over that. When I was all Mikrotik (well 90% that 10% Moto) it worked great for about a year and a half, then the packet storms started, then radios started doing weird intermittent things like turning off. Sure we did the obvious, change passwords, isolate the radios from the rest of the network but it just started to get worse, probably traffic driven from our ongoing growth that the greater demand for more bandwidth (we are 90% residential so Netflix type stuff). To solve this we started replacing backhauls with Ubiquiti radios. Ubiquiti allows more traffic so the added pressure really started to take down the Mikrotik AP's, ports and bridges now drop with undiagnoisable (new word) regularity. Then the bandwidth manager failed, Butch rebuilt it but for some reason the upgrade to 4.11 made failures happen more often that were like the AP's, dropped ports and bridges. We compensated by making a path on the Ethernet side and in-network side so we could maybe ... (fix the disabled port/bridge) from either end. We are spending all of our time building redundant this and redundant that until we realized one thing, on every outage Mikrotik's had cascading failures shutting down ports or turning off radios (disabling) meanwhile Ubiquiti never went down, ever. So we started pulling all Mikrotik backhauls, now we only lose AP's and the bandwidth manager. Since the bandwidth manager takes the entire network down we want replace it. Now you're up to speed on where we are, I call Mikrotik my 'backwards momentum' mover, we have to stop our forward motion on building and installing so we can restore service, it takes the fun out of this business thats for sure. Forbes On 10/14/2010 3:17 PM, Josh
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
Run smokeping and Dude. You need to find the issues or you may spend money needlessly. On Oct 14, 2010 7:57 PM, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: I also haven't been in my core router in ages, my template IS by Butch as I stated before, I HAVE had Dennis look at the outages, everyone is stumped, if I can't depend on it I don't want it. THEN I'll have time to route the network. I've used Mikrotik for years and until the load got to high things ran fine, I wish I could make it work but its down just too much. On 10/14/2010 4:18 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: I agree with Travis. Also the thread is about a bandwidth manager, which just like Travis, you would do at the edge between you and your upstream. Your APs, backhauls and other radios can be Ubnt/Canopy/Linksys/etc I would suggest spending the minimal amount of money for the MT router, Butch's template and forget about it. If you do have an issue (IMO it will be something a person did to the network if no one logs into it making changes all the time) you have Butch, Dennis, the list, etc. I can't remember the last time I logged into the core router. When I did, it was to copy some rules to share on a list or ##mikrotik. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net mailto:t...@ida.net wrote: Hi, You need to fix your network, not the hardware/software you are running. I have over 60 Mikrotik backhaul links, with over 1,000 Mikrotik customer radios (plus thousands more Trango and Canopy) and have NONE of the issues you describe. Our main edge router is a Mikrotik box (x86 with Quad core) and it has thousands of rules and NAT translations, moving 450Mbps x 150Mbps on a daily basis, and has been up for over 6 months right now (due only to firmware upgrades). Having your network bridged is the problem. Take time out and fix that, or you will continue to have more and more problems... Travis Microserv On 10/14/2010 4:45 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote: Really Josh, you want me to rehash this? To be simple I'm not a true geek, I barely speak linux and Router OS not at all. Our network of 700 over 12 towers is bridged, a big no-no but I can't keep radios up long enough to make us routed along with the growth sprut we've had this year (we 're averaging 3 installs a day with one installer/field tech). We've found that if you get over 50 on Mikrotik you start getting latency issues, four of our towers have over that. When I was all Mikrotik (well 90% that 10% Moto) it worked great for about a year and a half, then the packet storms started, then radios started doing weird intermittent things like turning off. Sure we did the obvious, change passwords, isolate the radios from the rest of the network but it just started to get worse, probably traffic driven from our ongoing growth that the greater demand for more bandwidth (we are 90% residential so Netflix type stuff). To solve this we started replacing backhauls with Ubiquiti radios. Ubiquiti allows more traffic so the added pressure really started to take down the Mikrotik AP's, ports and bridges now drop with undiagnoisable (new word) regularity. Then the bandwidth manager failed, Butch rebuilt it but for some reason the upgrade to 4.11 made failures happen more often that were like the AP's, dropped ports and bridges. We compensated by making a path on the Ethernet side and in-network side so we could maybe ... (fix the disabled port/bridge) from either end. We are spending all of our time building redundant this and redundant that until we realized one thing, on every outage Mikrotik's had cascading failures shutting down ports or turning off radios (disabling) meanwhile Ubiquiti never went down, ever. So we started pulling all Mikrotik backhauls, now we only lose AP's and the bandwidth manager. Since the bandwidth manager takes the entire network down we want replace it. Now you're up to speed on where we are, I call Mikrotik my 'backwards momentum' mover, we have to stop our forward motion on building and installing so we can restore service, it takes the fun out of this business thats for sure. Forbes On 10/14/2010 3:17 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Hrm why doesn't Mikrotik work? On Oct 14, 2010 6:15 PM, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com mailto:forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions. Thanks, Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
Again not a true statement, $3000 for a visit by a network administrator to route us (already got the quote), $600 for a packeteer on eBay. Then we can route it ourselves because the network won't drop every day when a piece of crap router drops the ethernet port every time it sees traffic it doesn't like, who designs something like that anyway!? ZERO drops from UBNT gear and it's handling the exact same gear as the Mikrotik did, EXACT same packets. OK ok sorry I'm getting pissed now, going to walk away for the night... I just asked for alternatives, that's all. Didn't mean to walk into the MAC users group and say Windows was better. On 10/14/2010 5:01 PM, Jeromie Reeves wrote: Sounds like you need to have someone come visit the network in person. There has to be a reasonable explination for what is going on your network, and i posit that no device you find is going to work right till that root cause is found. On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: I also haven't been in my core router in ages, my template IS by Butch as I stated before, I HAVE had Dennis look at the outages, everyone is stumped, if I can't depend on it I don't want it. THEN I'll have time to route the network. I've used Mikrotik for years and until the load got to high things ran fine, I wish I could make it work but its down just too much. On 10/14/2010 4:18 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: I agree with Travis. Also the thread is about a bandwidth manager, which just like Travis, you would do at the edge between you and your upstream. Your APs, backhauls and other radios can be Ubnt/Canopy/Linksys/etc I would suggest spending the minimal amount of money for the MT router, Butch's template and forget about it. If you do have an issue (IMO it will be something a person did to the network if no one logs into it making changes all the time) you have Butch, Dennis, the list, etc. I can't remember the last time I logged into the core router. When I did, it was to copy some rules to share on a list or ##mikrotik. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Travis Johnsont...@ida.net wrote: Hi, You need to fix your network, not the hardware/software you are running. I have over 60 Mikrotik backhaul links, with over 1,000 Mikrotik customer radios (plus thousands more Trango and Canopy) and have NONE of the issues you describe. Our main edge router is a Mikrotik box (x86 with Quad core) and it has thousands of rules and NAT translations, moving 450Mbps x 150Mbps on a daily basis, and has been up for over 6 months right now (due only to firmware upgrades). Having your network bridged is the problem. Take time out and fix that, or you will continue to have more and more problems... Travis Microserv On 10/14/2010 4:45 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote: Really Josh, you want me to rehash this? To be simple I'm not a true geek, I barely speak linux and Router OS not at all. Our network of 700 over 12 towers is bridged, a big no-no but I can't keep radios up long enough to make us routed along with the growth sprut we've had this year (we 're averaging 3 installs a day with one installer/field tech). We've found that if you get over 50 on Mikrotik you start getting latency issues, four of our towers have over that. When I was all Mikrotik (well 90% that 10% Moto) it worked great for about a year and a half, then the packet storms started, then radios started doing weird intermittent things like turning off. Sure we did the obvious, change passwords, isolate the radios from the rest of the network but it just started to get worse, probably traffic driven from our ongoing growth that the greater demand for more bandwidth (we are 90% residential so Netflix type stuff). To solve this we started replacing backhauls with Ubiquiti radios. Ubiquiti allows more traffic so the added pressure really started to take down the Mikrotik AP's, ports and bridges now drop with undiagnoisable (new word) regularity. Then the bandwidth manager failed, Butch rebuilt it but for some reason the upgrade to 4.11 made failures happen more often that were like the AP's, dropped ports and bridges. We compensated by making a path on the Ethernet side and in-network side so we could maybe ... (fix the disabled port/bridge) from either end. We are spending all of our time building redundant this and redundant that until we realized one thing, on every outage Mikrotik's had cascading failures shutting down ports or turning off radios (disabling) meanwhile Ubiquiti never went down, ever. So we started pulling all Mikrotik backhauls, now we only lose AP's and the bandwidth manager. Since the bandwidth manager takes the entire network down we want replace it. Now you're up to speed on where we are, I call Mikrotik my 'backwards momentum' mover, we have to stop our
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
Thanks Josh I'll try that Forbes On 10/14/2010 5:02 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Run smokeping and Dude. You need to find the issues or you may spend money needlessly. On Oct 14, 2010 7:57 PM, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com mailto:forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: I also haven't been in my core router in ages, my template IS by Butch as I stated before, I HAVE had Dennis look at the outages, everyone is stumped, if I can't depend on it I don't want it. THEN I'll have time to route the network. I've used Mikrotik for years and until the load got to high things ran fine, I wish I could make it work but its down just too much. On 10/14/2010 4:18 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: I agree with Travis. Also the thread is about a bandwidth manager, which just like Travis, you would do at the edge between you and your upstream. Your APs, backhauls and other radios can be Ubnt/Canopy/Linksys/etc I would suggest spending the minimal amount of money for the MT router, Butch's template and forget about it. If you do have an issue (IMO it will be something a person did to the network if no one logs into it making changes all the time) you have Butch, Dennis, the list, etc. I can't remember the last time I logged into the core router. When I did, it was to copy some rules to share on a list or ##mikrotik. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net mailto:t...@ida.net mailto:t...@ida.net mailto:t...@ida.net wrote: Hi, You need to fix your network, not the hardware/software you are running. I have over 60 Mikrotik backhaul links, with over 1,000 Mikrotik customer radios (plus thousands more Trango and Canopy) and have NONE of the issues you describe. Our main edge router is a Mikrotik box (x86 with Quad core) and it has thousands of rules and NAT translations, moving 450Mbps x 150Mbps on a daily basis, and has been up for over 6 months right now (due only to firmware upgrades). Having your network bridged is the problem. Take time out and fix that, or you will continue to have more and more problems... Travis Microserv On 10/14/2010 4:45 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote: Really Josh, you want me to rehash this? To be simple I'm not a true geek, I barely speak linux and Router OS not at all. Our network of 700 over 12 towers is bridged, a big no-no but I can't keep radios up long enough to make us routed along with the growth sprut we've had this year (we 're averaging 3 installs a day with one installer/field tech). We've found that if you get over 50 on Mikrotik you start getting latency issues, four of our towers have over that. When I was all Mikrotik (well 90% that 10% Moto) it worked great for about a year and a half, then the packet storms started, then radios started doing weird intermittent things like turning off. Sure we did the obvious, change passwords, isolate the radios from the rest of the network but it just started to get worse, probably traffic driven from our ongoing growth that the greater demand for more bandwidth (we are 90% residential so Netflix type stuff). To solve this we started replacing backhauls with Ubiquiti radios. Ubiquiti allows more traffic so the added pressure really started to take down the Mikrotik AP's, ports and bridges now drop with undiagnoisable (new word) regularity. Then the bandwidth manager failed, Butch rebuilt it but for some reason the upgrade to 4.11 made failures happen more often that were like the AP's, dropped ports and bridges. We compensated by making a path on the Ethernet side and in-network side so we could maybe ... (fix the disabled port/bridge) from either end. We are spending all of our time building redundant this and redundant that until we realized one thing, on every outage Mikrotik's had cascading failures shutting down ports or turning off radios (disabling) meanwhile Ubiquiti never went down, ever. So we started pulling all Mikrotik backhauls, now we only lose AP's and the bandwidth manager. Since the bandwidth manager takes the entire network down we want replace it. Now you're up to speed on where we are, I call Mikrotik my 'backwards momentum' mover, we have to stop our forward motion on building and installing so we can restore service, it takes the fun out of this business thats for sure. Forbes On 10/14/2010 3:17 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Hrm why doesn't Mikrotik work? On Oct 14, 2010 6:15 PM, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com mailto:forbes.me...@wabroadband.com mailto:forbes.me...@wabroadband.com mailto:forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
Since I do not have all the information you might be right. What I have read says you have a mikrotik router (all ethernet) that is dropping interfaces. Not sure how that relates to Ubnt gear since they are wireless, unless you mean a MT with wireless and not a x86 unit. I do not equate a wireless router to a core router, or possibly the issues are effecting all units? I will concede that is possible since I have not seen any real information on the network. $6k? Id do it for half that, or wager the $6k vs being able to make what you have now work =)(or at least most of it) On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:13 PM, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: Again not a true statement, $3000 for a visit by a network administrator to route us (already got the quote), $600 for a packeteer on eBay. Then we can route it ourselves because the network won't drop every day when a piece of crap router drops the ethernet port every time it sees traffic it doesn't like, who designs something like that anyway!? ZERO drops from UBNT gear and it's handling the exact same gear as the Mikrotik did, EXACT same packets. OK ok sorry I'm getting pissed now, going to walk away for the night... I just asked for alternatives, that's all. Didn't mean to walk into the MAC users group and say Windows was better. On 10/14/2010 5:01 PM, Jeromie Reeves wrote: Sounds like you need to have someone come visit the network in person. There has to be a reasonable explination for what is going on your network, and i posit that no device you find is going to work right till that root cause is found. On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: I also haven't been in my core router in ages, my template IS by Butch as I stated before, I HAVE had Dennis look at the outages, everyone is stumped, if I can't depend on it I don't want it. THEN I'll have time to route the network. I've used Mikrotik for years and until the load got to high things ran fine, I wish I could make it work but its down just too much. On 10/14/2010 4:18 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: I agree with Travis. Also the thread is about a bandwidth manager, which just like Travis, you would do at the edge between you and your upstream. Your APs, backhauls and other radios can be Ubnt/Canopy/Linksys/etc I would suggest spending the minimal amount of money for the MT router, Butch's template and forget about it. If you do have an issue (IMO it will be something a person did to the network if no one logs into it making changes all the time) you have Butch, Dennis, the list, etc. I can't remember the last time I logged into the core router. When I did, it was to copy some rules to share on a list or ##mikrotik. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Travis Johnsont...@ida.net wrote: Hi, You need to fix your network, not the hardware/software you are running. I have over 60 Mikrotik backhaul links, with over 1,000 Mikrotik customer radios (plus thousands more Trango and Canopy) and have NONE of the issues you describe. Our main edge router is a Mikrotik box (x86 with Quad core) and it has thousands of rules and NAT translations, moving 450Mbps x 150Mbps on a daily basis, and has been up for over 6 months right now (due only to firmware upgrades). Having your network bridged is the problem. Take time out and fix that, or you will continue to have more and more problems... Travis Microserv On 10/14/2010 4:45 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote: Really Josh, you want me to rehash this? To be simple I'm not a true geek, I barely speak linux and Router OS not at all. Our network of 700 over 12 towers is bridged, a big no-no but I can't keep radios up long enough to make us routed along with the growth sprut we've had this year (we 're averaging 3 installs a day with one installer/field tech). We've found that if you get over 50 on Mikrotik you start getting latency issues, four of our towers have over that. When I was all Mikrotik (well 90% that 10% Moto) it worked great for about a year and a half, then the packet storms started, then radios started doing weird intermittent things like turning off. Sure we did the obvious, change passwords, isolate the radios from the rest of the network but it just started to get worse, probably traffic driven from our ongoing growth that the greater demand for more bandwidth (we are 90% residential so Netflix type stuff). To solve this we started replacing backhauls with Ubiquiti radios. Ubiquiti allows more traffic so the added pressure really started to take down the Mikrotik AP's, ports and bridges now drop with undiagnoisable (new word) regularity. Then the bandwidth manager failed, Butch rebuilt it but for some reason the upgrade to 4.11 made failures happen more often that were like the AP's, dropped ports and bridges. We
Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
I know of some guys that are using SoftPerfect for small networks. I'm not sure how it scales or how the interface works. eg. if you can import rules or if you have to manually create all of them. If you simply want to limit bandwidth for each customer to their speed, MasterShapper will work. www.mastershapper.org It uses a MySQL database so you can nicely import all the rules into the tables. jessdk has some very nice tutorials in the forums on how to build it with debian. On 10/14/2010 05:40 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote: Ya know I'd be a lot more patient for the smart a$$ comments if I didn't have to live through this, I've hired the best guys on this list to solve it and the only answer I get in the end is that shouldn't happen. I can be non-geek enough to know if I can't hire the fix it ain't gonna work. All the loyalists to a certain brand be it Mikrotik or Mac users can either say 'if he can't make that work here's our suggestion' or come sit in my chair for a while and wait for the hundreds of calls when a piece of gear just drops for no reason. I've avoided Windows like the plague and run a 100% linux back end, every ISP I bought I converted to my format, you don't have to tell me horror stories I've been in this business since the beginning. I'm inferring to a more GUI type interface, hell it could be redhat for all I know, I'm looking for solutions not preferences. On 10/14/2010 4:27 PM, Jeremy Parr wrote: Splendid idea there guy, replace Mikrotik with a Windows box. Gotta wonder I'd the problem is between the keyboard and the chair here. On 10/14/10, Forbes Mercyforbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions. Thanks, Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
