Re: [WSG] G'day from Copenhagen!
There is no action because the data has been totally faked. Emails have been released proving the scientists promoting this fraud were making up the data as they were going along http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/20/cru_climate_hack/ But if you are so worried you can lower your carbon emissions by turning off your computer. Facebook leaves a carbon imprint. Turn off your air conditioning and heat too. I assume you are planning on living in Copenhagen for the rest of your life. Plane trips also leave a carbon footprint. You should only go anywhere by walking. Now if we can get back on topic please Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Paul Collins wrote: Hi all, I've decided to stop whinging about the lack of action on Climate Change and do something about it! I am currently in Copenhagen for the Climate Change Summit (COP15), which you've probably been hearing about. There's a load of stuff going on behind the scenes that you won't get to see on the news, such as Klimaforum - a totally seperate people's forum, where anyone can attend. I've setup a Blog about these things, which I'll be updating dailly. http://climatechangestuff.com I'm no expert on this stuff and there is so much technical jargon out there; the point of this trip is to learn more. The focus of the Blog is to document what I'm finding out and make the issues easy to understand. Please take a look if you're interested in Climate Change COP15. I don't want to annoy you with constant messaging if you're not though, so I've setup a Facebook page, if you subscribe here you can get updates: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cozza/18826599?v=wall Or, you can sign-up for email updates on the right hand column of the site. Or Twitter: http://twitter.com/cozzabags Cheers, and and all the best. Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Google chrome...
Because that is an intentional part of the way the system is designed. Read the comic for all the details http://www.google.com/googlebooks/chrome/index.html Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Nancy Gill wrote: One thing I have noticed today is that it creates 3 different processes in the Task Manager to run one coyp of chrome. I have tested this several times with the Task Manager open and everytime I open the browser, I add three processes all named chrome. They vary from 5mb to 44mb of memory usage. I can't figure out why it has to load the process three times in order to run. Nancy - Original Message - From: kevin mcmonagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 2:42 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Google chrome... First i thought it felt unfinished, but then the minimal design grew on me. Very uncluttered. And drop down menus consolodate a lot of screen real estate. Well designed gui, all its needs now is firebug and id use it. And i like the incognito windows, thats a slick feature. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3416 (20080904) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Coming very soon... [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
As we state in our terms of service, we don't claim ownership or control over your content in Google Docs Spreadsheets, whether you're using it as an individual or through Google Apps. Read in its entirety, the sentence from our terms of service excerpted in the blog ensures that, for documents you expressly choose to share with others, we have the proper license to display those documents to the selected users and format documents properly for different displays. To be clear, Google will not use your documents beyond the scope that you and you alone control. Your fantasy football spreadsheets are not going to end up shared with the world unless you want them to be Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Rae Buerckner wrote: If they don't have that functionality built in to chrome yet, they certainly have written themselves a license to built that in whenever they want to. R On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 3:07 PM, Blake [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Question: does Chrome actually record your browsing and send that information back to Google or are people just freaking over nothing? On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 2:02 PM, Andrew Boyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tee, my take on the legal stuff as it may apply to bloggers and other web content providers: http://onblogging.com.au/2008/09/03/does-google-own-my-blog-if-i-post-through-chrome Cheers, Andrew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Code for Firefox, hack for IE
Why not just user Safari for Windows rather than Opera to get an idea how Safari works? Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 willdonovan wrote: I would have to agree with the others here. Coding for / with FF is easier because of the debugging tools (i.e. Firebug, Web Developer Toolbar, etc) Otherwise I have atleast 4 other browsers open, all the popular IE's (5.5, 6, 7 soon 8) and Opera. I do find that Opera can give a good idea of what might be happening with Safari if your a PC user, but do check from time to time, like after major fixes and development stages. William [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is how I work, but mainly for pragmatic reasons: Better JavaScript de-bugging tools in FireFox. Better CSS support, therefore fewer problems out of the box, and better stylesheet analysis tools. Finally, the one good reason: anything that needs to be fixed for IE can be done with conditional comments, no such luck if you do things the other way around. Regards, Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David McKinnon Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:55 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Code for Firefox, hack for IE Hi, For a while now, I've been operating on the principle Code for Firefox, hack for IE. That is, writing CSS for the most standards-compliant browser, and then making adjustments for non-standard behaviour. I said this in a meeting last week to argue a point and my boss said who says?. I could have said me, but maybe that's not a good enough answer. Somewhere some years ago I read this, or heard someone at a conference or something and it got stuck in my head. Is this the way anyone works? Is it the best way to work? Does anyone know where I got this idea from? Book? Blog? A bit of googling this afternoon turned up not very much. Thanks, David *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Facebook downgrading support for IE6
IMHO it seems to me to be a violation of web standards to tell the user what browser to use. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Gregorio Espadas wrote: I like the IE6Blocker from Chris Coyier, check it out at http://css-tricks.com/ie-6-blocker-script/ I made a spanish translation of IE6Blocker, download it from http://espadas.com.mx/2008/09/01/bloqueando-internet-explorer-6/ Gregorio Espadas http://espadas.com.mx On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Susie Gardner-Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I came upon this - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2008/08/27/facebook-doesnt-really-support-ie6 If Facebook (or the 'new' Facebook look) is doing this, maybe it will really start to move IE6 out the door ... One can only hope anyway!! +++ Susie Gardner-Brown blog: http://susiegb/blogspot.com web: http://www.greendoorwebsites.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Coming very soon...
Just tried it. It is fast. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Bill Brown wrote: tee wrote: Google chrome is available for windows download ! http://www.google.com/chrome It has no Mac version! :( Nor Unix. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Figures out issues. Standards for troubleshooting css
Actually that helped me with my image problem. It let me know the issue was with how I was defining my background image when it worked with a background color. The hardest thing about learning a new language is learning its troubleshooting techniques. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Fred Ballard wrote: For problems with box alignment, I know I usually turn on background colors to clearly see the size and position of the boxes the browser is using. Or is that a newbie answer? On Sat, Aug 30, 2008 at 11:32 PM, Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just figured out my recent issues. Nothing really special for the resolution. Brings up a newbie question is standard steps people use for troubleshooting. My first steps are of course make sure things validate. Beyond that I don't have any standard steps besides really using google. Any good lists of generic steps people do when troubleshooting CSS issues. -- Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Background issues in a div
What is css-d. Any ideas how to start testing or researching this type
of problem.
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
tee wrote:
#signup{
position: relative;
float: left;
top: 0px;
padding-left: 0px;
padding-right: 0px;
height: 135px;
width: 180px;
border:thick;
/*background:url(../images/background.png);
background-repeat: no-repeat;
*/
background-color:#00;
}
When I use the background image in IE 7 only part of the image shows
but it works completely find in Firefox and opera. However when use
background-color it works ok in all three browsers.
So I'm wondering what IE-7 might be doing to my background image.
I vaguely remember reading about bug somewhere, probably the css-d,
but can't find the thread.
tee
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[WSG] multiple background images
I think I'm narrowing down where my problem is. I have multiple background images. The main one is the body tag and then I have div's with a different body tag. It appears there are issues with this within div's. Any ideas on this Thanks -- Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Figures out issues. Standards for troubleshooting css
Just figured out my recent issues. Nothing really special for the resolution. Brings up a newbie question is standard steps people use for troubleshooting. My first steps are of course make sure things validate. Beyond that I don't have any standard steps besides really using google. Any good lists of generic steps people do when troubleshooting CSS issues. -- Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Background issues in a div
Thanks for the help on my last issue, figured out my problem was caused
by another part of my css.
Anyway this issue is interesting. I have a left side box
#signup{
position: relative;
float: left;
top: 0px;
padding-left: 0px;
padding-right: 0px;
height: 135px;
width: 180px;
border:thick;
/*background:url(../images/background.png);
background-repeat: no-repeat;
*/
background-color:#00;
}
When I use the background image in IE 7 only part of the image shows but
it works completely find in Firefox and opera. However when use
background-color it works ok in all three browsers.
So I'm wondering what IE-7 might be doing to my background image.
Thanks for any ideas.
--
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
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[WSG] how to use images and text in a menue
How would people suggest if I have a menu with an image on top and text underneath and I want both the text and the image as a link I'm thinking of making them link items and use css to move the image on top of the text. Does that sound semantically correct. lia href=#img src=images/home.png //a /li lia href=#HOME/a/li -- Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Skype changing format of my pages
Of course that won't help users using skype who don't talk to the designer or read this forum. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Cortney Sellers wrote: Yes – it’s a Skype feature to make numbers easily clickable to use Skype for calling. I believe it can be turned off in Tools Options somewhere… http://support.skype.com/index.php?_a=knowledgebase_j=questiondetails_i=806 http://support.skype.com/index.php?_a=knowledgebase_j=questiondetails_i=806 http://support.skype.com/index.php?_a=knowledgebase_j=questiondetails_i=108 http://support.skype.com/index.php?_a=knowledgebase_j=questiondetails_i=108 Cortney *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *designer *Sent:* Tuesday, August 26, 2008 10:29 AM *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* [WSG] Skype changing format of my pages Does anyone know a way to prevent Skype changing telephone numbers into skype buttons on pages I have carefully designed/coded. It bothers others too : http://forum.skype.com/index.php?showtopic=113096 I do not use Skype, but one of my clients does, and my page design (for her site) appears to her with the button instead of the text. (In IE). (She blamed me, at first!) I know she can turn it off by disabling the Skype add on in IE, but what about all the other folk around the world . . . As this is to do with the web designer's work being tampered with, I feel sure it will come under the heading of standards and accessibility. Sadly, I cannot validate it for myself, but I expect it will be deadly. Anyone got any clues? Bob www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk http://www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] how to use images and text in a menue
I've been using the background image idea.
#home {
background:url(../images/Home.png) no-repeat top left;
display: block;
width: 34px;
height: 75px;
overflow: hidden;
padding-top: 75px;
}
I've seen other people say to use display block and that works better.
My xhtml is
lia href=# id=homeHOME/a/li
Everything validates
However instead of replacing the text and leaving it available for use
by search engines and text reader both the text and image show.
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
Svip wrote:
Try style=background:url(images/home.png) no-repeat top left; width:
imagewidthpx; height: imageheightpx; for the first a.
I'd probably do something like this:
lia href=# id=home-linkHome/a/li
Then in CSS:
#home-link {
background: url(images/home.png) no-repeat top left;
width: WIDTHpx;
height: HEIGHTpx;
overflow: hidden;
padding-top: HEIGHTpx;
}
That way, people using a graphical browser won't see the text, but
people using a text-based browser and search engines will see the
text. Of course, you could just use alt= in the img / tag, but
that is not pretty either.
Regards,
Svip
2008/8/28 Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
How would people suggest if I have a menu with an image on top and text
underneath and I want both the text and the image as a link
I'm thinking of making them link items and use css to move the image on top
of the text. Does that sound semantically correct.
lia href=#img src=images/home.png //a /li
lia href=#HOME/a/li
--
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
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Re: [WSG] how to use images and text in a menu
I got the image replacement working
#home {
padding-top:76px;
height:0px;
width: 34px;
overflow: hidden;
background:url(../images/Home.png) no-repeat;
}
Major change above was to change the heigh to 0px and I don't have to
set the display to block.
However it also works this way
#home {
padding-top:76px;
height:0px;
width: 34px;
overflow: hidden;
display:block;
background:url(../images/Home.png) no-repeat;
}
Not really sure if I should have block turned on or not.
2nd change was the placement in my xhtml
li id =homea href=#Home/a/li
I put the id on the li element not the a element. Not sure why this
worked. If anyone can tell me why that placement is important I would
appreciate it.
The article I found discussing how to do this that helped me with the
height issue is here http://www.kryogenix.org/code/browser/lir/
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
Michael Horowitz wrote:
I've been using the background image idea.
#home {
background:url(../images/Home.png) no-repeat top left;
display: block;
width: 34px;
height: 75px;
overflow: hidden;
padding-top: 75px;
}
I've seen other people say to use display block and that works better.
My xhtml is
lia href=# id=homeHOME/a/li
Everything validates
However instead of replacing the text and leaving it available for use
by search engines and text reader both the text and image show.
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
Svip wrote:
Try style=background:url(images/home.png) no-repeat top left; width:
imagewidthpx; height: imageheightpx; for the first a.
I'd probably do something like this:
lia href=# id=home-linkHome/a/li
Then in CSS:
#home-link {
background: url(images/home.png) no-repeat top left;
width: WIDTHpx;
height: HEIGHTpx;
overflow: hidden;
padding-top: HEIGHTpx;
}
That way, people using a graphical browser won't see the text, but
people using a text-based browser and search engines will see the
text. Of course, you could just use alt= in the img / tag, but
that is not pretty either.
Regards,
Svip
2008/8/28 Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
How would people suggest if I have a menu with an image on top and text
underneath and I want both the text and the image as a link
I'm thinking of making them link items and use css to move the image
on top
of the text. Does that sound semantically correct.
lia href=#img src=images/home.png //a /li
lia href=#HOME/a/li
--
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
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Re: [WSG] how to use images and text in a menue
Actually my last fix caused another problem. My image isn't a link to click
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
Michael Horowitz wrote:
I've been using the background image idea.
#home {
background:url(../images/Home.png) no-repeat top left;
display: block;
width: 34px;
height: 75px;
overflow: hidden;
padding-top: 75px;
}
I've seen other people say to use display block and that works better.
My xhtml is
lia href=# id=homeHOME/a/li
Everything validates
However instead of replacing the text and leaving it available for use
by search engines and text reader both the text and image show.
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
Svip wrote:
Try style=background:url(images/home.png) no-repeat top left; width:
imagewidthpx; height: imageheightpx; for the first a.
I'd probably do something like this:
lia href=# id=home-linkHome/a/li
Then in CSS:
#home-link {
background: url(images/home.png) no-repeat top left;
width: WIDTHpx;
height: HEIGHTpx;
overflow: hidden;
padding-top: HEIGHTpx;
}
That way, people using a graphical browser won't see the text, but
people using a text-based browser and search engines will see the
text. Of course, you could just use alt= in the img / tag, but
that is not pretty either.
Regards,
Svip
2008/8/28 Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
How would people suggest if I have a menu with an image on top and text
underneath and I want both the text and the image as a link
I'm thinking of making them link items and use css to move the image
on top
of the text. Does that sound semantically correct.
lia href=#img src=images/home.png //a /li
lia href=#HOME/a/li
--
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
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Re: [WSG] Web dev or design certificates
Adobe has a cert http://www.adobe.com/support/certification/ace.html I think that would be a good project to have a Web Standards certification and force people to update every few years. Be great to have the W3C run it and test peoples standards knowledge. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 James Jeffery wrote: I havn't even viewed the Opera certs. but I 'think' they do something similar. I also know that PPK is doing something to get front end engineers recognized. He is developing a cert. programme or something. As for PHP you can do the Zend Certified Engineer exam. Web Development is a fast changing subject and there are many branches to it. I doubt any certification would be 'in date' for long. On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 6:57 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Every once in a while I'll have a student ask if there are any global or national web design or web dev certificate programs that are worth more than the paper they are printed on. Anyone know of any (XHTML, CSS, PHP, Flash, etc) that adhere to web standards and are recognized by employers? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Web dev or design certificates
8 HTML Errors http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ciwcertified.com%2F CSS is not valid http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile=css21warning=0uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ciwcertified.com%2F I may be newer to web standards than most but my newer work is better than this. I guess this is a good check to see if you want to give them money for training. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Thierry Koblentz wrote: Try CIW http://www.ciwcertified.com/ certification. Certified Internet Web Developer (and then whichever is your area of specialization). I'm always surprised by the poor quality of the markup of these sites... *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Correct markup of fieldset
I want to make sure I understand you are saying that input type really is required to be under fieldset instead of directly under form Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Jens Brueckmann wrote: 2008/8/7 Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED]: This is one I've never been sure of; should the submit button be in a seperate fieldset, or should it even be in a fieldset at all because it is not a group of fields; it's a button on it's own. For example: form fieldset labelSearch/label input type=text value=/ /fieldset input type=submit/ /form As opposed to: form fieldset labelSearch/label input type=text value=/ input type=submit/ /fieldset /form Hi Paul, in strict (X)HTML documents, the FORM element must only contain block elements [1]. Therefore, an INPUT element as a direct child of FORM would be invalid for documents with strict DTDs. Using transitional DTDs, the FORM element may as well contain inline elements such as INPUT. Apart from considering the validity of the markup in question, the complexity of the form could guide one. In your example with a single text input field one might view the submit button to be part of this same fieldset. In more complex forms, e.g. a feedback form which requires input of name, e-mail, and a textarea for free text, the submit button would rather require its own FIELDSET or DIV or P parent element. Cheers, jens [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#edef-FORM *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] form from the 7th level of hell
Question couldn't you just set the padding to 0px to take care of IE
adding the padding? Is there a reason this would not work?
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
Joseph Taylor wrote:
If the markup has to stay as it is now, your problems are probably
coming from images for one thing. IE7 adds the 3 pixel padding to
the bottom of the images so getting equal heights will be tough.
You should be able to get the cells to behave somewhat with this classic:
td {
min-height: 50px;
_height: 50px; /* for IE7 */
}
Then again...
Why IS this 2 different tables? It seems the data in the left table
is part of the grid of the 2nd table.
Putting the tables together in markup would alleviate the issues you
are having in the presentation and make the relationship of the data
more proper.
I'd do something like this:
table
captionAllocation Table/caption
thead
tr
th scope=colRoom Type amp; Period Totals/th
th scope=rowDate/th
th scope=colTue 05 Aug/th
etc...
You can mix up td and th as long as you specify what the headers
are covering, be it a column or row.
Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Fax: (866) 301-8045
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
kevin mcmonagle wrote:
Ok here it is-Im just putting this up here as a last ditch effort.
http://67.199.64.89/newtable3.html
Can anyone offer advice on fixing/locking table cell/row height
across browsers?
The main problem is making the two adjacent tables appear to be one
continuous table. Getting the cell height to line up is proving very
difficult, maybe impossible. It aligns ok in ff3 but breaks in ie6
and ie7 both in different ways. Im using the height html attribute
right now because i cant think of another way to fix the height of
cells with the differnt kinds of different data in them.
Im trying to fix a broken .net layout with css and html.
Its never going to validate, theres nothing i can do about that.
-best
kevin
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Re: [WSG] Appropriate postings
I look at the list guidelines to see if I am appropriate http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm where it says the list is Provide web standards information and assistance to developers... The mail list covers any topic associated with web standards including: * Implementing Web Standards - eg: technologies such as HTML, XHTML, CSS, DOM, UAAG, RDF, XML, JavaScript and EcmaScript It seems my questions are about implementing Web Standards. I certainly agree with the earlier posters who suggested I make sure to validate before posting questions on what I do. That would have saved some dumb questions on my behalf. I do think we should probably add requiring validation before posting How To my sites broken questions to the list. I also do think that it is possible their are lurkers on my list learning web standards and just starting with tableless design who may benefit from my questions. Going back 20 years to college I remember feeling like an idiot being the only one to ask a question in class when I didn't understand something only to have a half a dozen people thank me for my question after class because they were too afraid to ask. So I do believe there are other who may learn from my questions. There may be a benefit to the group to have multiple mail lists for different aspects of Web Standards including a newbie list where people can seek help. I would also be open to having a standard part of a subject line like Dumb Newbie asking question :) to allow people who don't want to get involved with helping to more easily filter my mail. I can tell you it will probably be 6 months to a year before I can add much more to the list besides asking questions so you may just with to use your email filter to put my posts to your trash bin and take it out again this time next year. I know I am supposed to thank people off list for help but as long as it is part of a longer posting I will just add some thanks for your help. I do learn alot from this list both from my questions on the subject I just read. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Adam Martin wrote: Sorry to come across blunt - but I don't think the web standards group is meant to be a teacher of css. Great that people on here are wanting to learn. But there are plenty of other places dedicated to these sort of things. - Original Message - From: Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 2:16 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list In playing I've found using the relative positioning working pretty good for me. Is it just a matter of personal preference what I use then? Thanks for the article I really haven't understood negative margins. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 David Hucklesby wrote: On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 23:32:16 -0400, Michael Horowitz wrote: The live page is horowitzfamily.net. I'm just learning positioning and this seemed to work. The issue as mentioned earlier was transparency in my image. however I am just learning to do css without tables and really don't know what I should be doing for positioning. Quite honestly in hacking around this worked. I'll be happy to get feedback on better techniques for the future CSS gives you a lot of options for positioning elements on a page. As with all design issues, the best choice is usually a compromise, depending on what you want to achieve. My first choice for positioning elements is often to use margins - including negative margins on occasion. See this CommunityMX article for more: http://www.communitymx.com/content/article.cfm?cid=b0029 Hope this helps. Cordially, David -- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Appropriate postings
Definitely a hope of mine. I would really think it might be best to use subject headings to allow people who aren't interested in helping to skip over posts. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote: On lists like these, newbies can become gurus. And the cycle unselfishly gets repeated. :) Respectfully, Mike Cherim http://green-beast.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list
In playing I've found using the relative positioning working pretty good for me. Is it just a matter of personal preference what I use then? Thanks for the article I really haven't understood negative margins. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 David Hucklesby wrote: On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 23:32:16 -0400, Michael Horowitz wrote: The live page is horowitzfamily.net. I'm just learning positioning and this seemed to work. The issue as mentioned earlier was transparency in my image. however I am just learning to do css without tables and really don't know what I should be doing for positioning. Quite honestly in hacking around this worked. I'll be happy to get feedback on better techniques for the future CSS gives you a lot of options for positioning elements on a page. As with all design issues, the best choice is usually a compromise, depending on what you want to achieve. My first choice for positioning elements is often to use margins - including negative margins on occasion. See this CommunityMX article for more: http://www.communitymx.com/content/article.cfm?cid=b0029 Hope this helps. Cordially, David -- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Extra white line on the top of my list
Strange it wasn't like the transparency. Remade the graphic w/o it. Is
transparency often an issue with browsers. Not sure if the issue is web
standards or my photoshop skills. My apologies if this is the wrong forum
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yes it's your image images/button.png that has the white line
Dave
- Original Message -
*From:* Nick Tomczek mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org mailto:wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
*Sent:* Friday, August 01, 2008 8:36 PM
*Subject:* Re: [WSG] Extra white line on the top of my list
Michael,
Your image has the line on it. It's not in your code.
Nick
On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 12:29 PM, Al Sparber
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I a dealing with a different issue. I am just having
above my menu list a time barely visable white line
occurring. Site XHTML and CSS both validate. Any ideas
what to look for. If you want to look it is at
horowitzfamily.net http://horowitzfamily.net.
#mainNav{
position: relative;
top: 17px;
}
#mainNav ul a.menu {
position: relative;
bottom: 5px;
}
In terms of CSS only (I can't see your markup), the properties
cited above could be likely candidates. I won't ask you why
you are positioning like that as it would be better to see a
live test page.
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Lightshow Magic
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--
Nicholas Tomczek
Web Business Consulting
Cell: (425) 750-0211
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Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list
The live page is horowitzfamily.net. I'm just learning positioning and
this seemed to work. The issue as mentioned earlier was transparency in
my image.
however I am just learning to do css without tables and really don't
know what I should be doing for positioning. Quite honestly in
hacking around this worked. I'll be happy to get feedback on better
techniques for the future
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
Al Sparber wrote:
From: Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I a dealing with a different issue. I am just having above my menu
list a time barely visable white line occurring. Site XHTML and CSS
both validate. Any ideas what to look for. If you want to look it
is at horowitzfamily.net.
#mainNav{
position: relative;
top: 17px;
}
#mainNav ul a.menu {
position: relative;
bottom: 5px;
}
In terms of CSS only (I can't see your markup), the properties cited
above could be likely candidates. I won't ask you why you are
positioning like that as it would be better to see a live test page.
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Lightshow Magic
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Re: [WSG] Inline style works but css does not
I know typos kill me. Sorry about bothering people with that.
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
David Dorward wrote:
On 1 Aug 2008, at 16:22, Michael Horowitz wrote:
but this does not
.small {
font-size:8x;
}
x isn't a unit.
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Re: [WSG] Extra white line on the top of my list
Thanks I'm dealing with the combination of lack of sleep from twins,
trying to really pick up css and silly mistakes. I will admit once I
know what should work I will know better when to assume something is a
typo. This is only my 2nd attempt at building a table free site and its
looking alot better than my last one. I do appreciate all the help I've
gotten here and will let you know it is being passed on (the boss
doesn't do Div's an my next job is to teach him when this site is done.)
I a dealing with a different issue. I am just having above my menu list
a time barely visable white line occurring. Site XHTML and CSS both
validate. Any ideas what to look for. If you want to look it is at
horowitzfamily.net.
The relevant CSS
#mainNav{
padding-left: 0px;
padding-right: 0px;
width: 200px;
float: left;
position: relative;
top: 17px;
}
#mainNav ul {
margin:0;
padding:0;
}
#mainNav li.button{
margin:0;
padding:0;
background:url(../images/button.png) no-repeat;
}
#mainNav li.expanded {
background:url(../images/expandedbutton.png) no-repeat;
}
#mainNav ul a.menu {
margin:0;
padding:0;
display:block;
line-height:36px;
text-decoration:none;
color:#00;
font-size: 10px;
color:#4d4325;
font-weight:bold;
position: relative;
left: 18px;
bottom: 5px;
}
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
David Fuller - magickweb wrote:
Come on everyone don't give Michael too hard a time, we ALL typo from time
to time and wonder why it won't work...
Its just part n parcel of the coding world...
David Fuller
Developer
magickweb
Web:http://www.magick.com.au
Tel: 0434 728 267
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Hassan Schroeder
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 1:47 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Inline style works but css does not
Michael Horowitz wrote:
Interesting this works
select style= font-size: 8px name=cruiseline
but this does not
select class=small name=month
.small {
font-size:8x;
}
Interesting how? Typos usually /don't/ work, in my experience :-)
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Re: [WSG] IE loses background image
That does it. Shame it doesn't fail validation for such a problem.
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
Gonzalo González Mora wrote:
On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 1:50 AM, Michael Horowitz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My background image is disappearing in IE 7 but shows up in
Firefox, Opera and safari. It's at horowitzfamily.net
http://horowitzfamily.net
I'm thinking I have a conflict between different background images
I have verified I have valid css
http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile=css21warning=0uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.horowitzfamily.net%2F
http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile=css21warning=0uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.horowitzfamily.net%2F
#mainNav ul a {
margin:0;
padding:0;
display:block;
line-height:40px;
text-decoration:none;
color:#00;
background:url(../images/button3.jpg)no-repeat;
font-size: 10px;
color:#4d4325;
font-weight:bold;
text-indent:35px;
}
#mainNav img {
margin:0px;
padding:0px;
display:block;
float: left;
}
body {
font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
background-image:url(../images/background.jpg);
font-size:10px;
}
--
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
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Add a space on the background property, like this:
background:url(../images/button3.jpg) no-repeat;
Gonzalo
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[WSG] How to move text near but not on the bottom of a div
I have a menu list of items at horowitzfamily.net. In Dreamweaver they
line up near the bottom of my header div but in browsers IE, Firefox,
Opera and Safari they end up on the top.
I thought I might us line-height to move them (as that worked on my side
menu list but got inconsistent results accross browsers. Any
suggestions on how to best choose a location of a menu like this
#header{
margin:0px;
padding:0px;
width: 100%;
height: 73px;
background-image:url(../images/header4.jpg);
}
#header img{
float: left;
}
#header ul li{
float:right;
font-size:10px;
/*line-height: 14px;*/
margin:0px;
padding:0px;
}
#header ul a {
text-decoration:none;
color:#4d4325;
}
Thanks
--
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
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Re: [WSG] How to move text near but not on the bottom of a div
Didn't work.
What properties do people think I should play with. What I want to
learn to go beyond this one issue is how do I best control text
placement for menu lists that use background images.
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd wrote:
Hi Michael,
Try this,
#header{
margin:0px;
padding:0px;
width: 100%;
height: 73px;
background-image:url(../images/header4.jpg);
}
#header img{
float: left;
}
#header ul li{
float:right;
font-size:10px;
}
#header ul li a {
text-decoration:none;
color:#4d4325;
line-height: 14px;
margin:0px;
padding:0px;
}
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Michael Horowitz
Sent: 31 July 2008 16:50
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] How to move text near but not on the bottom of a div
I have a menu list of items at horowitzfamily.net. In Dreamweaver they
line up near the bottom of my header div but in browsers IE, Firefox,
Opera and Safari they end up on the top.
I thought I might us line-height to move them (as that worked on my side
menu list but got inconsistent results accross browsers. Any
suggestions on how to best choose a location of a menu like this
#header{
margin:0px;
padding:0px;
width: 100%;
height: 73px;
background-image:url(../images/header4.jpg);
}
#header img{
float: left;
}
#header ul li{
float:right;
font-size:10px;
/*line-height: 14px;*/
margin:0px;
padding:0px;
}
#header ul a {
text-decoration:none;
color:#4d4325;
}
Thanks
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Re: [WSG] How to move text near but not on the bottom of a div
Just to show I just am not asking questions. I found what seems to be a
good answer
#header ul {
position: relative;
top: 55px;
right: 30px;
}
This position relative seems to be a good way to move text around. I'd
love to know what people think of this.
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
Michael Horowitz wrote:
Didn't work.
What properties do people think I should play with. What I want to
learn to go beyond this one issue is how do I best control text
placement for menu lists that use background images.
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd wrote:
Hi Michael,
Try this,
#header{
margin:0px;
padding:0px;
width: 100%;
height: 73px;
background-image:url(../images/header4.jpg);
}
#header img{
float: left;
}
#header ul li{
float:right;
font-size:10px;
}
#header ul li a {
text-decoration:none;
color:#4d4325;
line-height: 14px;
margin:0px;
padding:0px;
}
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Michael Horowitz
Sent: 31 July 2008 16:50
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] How to move text near but not on the bottom of a div
I have a menu list of items at horowitzfamily.net. In Dreamweaver
they line up near the bottom of my header div but in browsers IE,
Firefox, Opera and Safari they end up on the top.
I thought I might us line-height to move them (as that worked on my
side menu list but got inconsistent results accross browsers. Any
suggestions on how to best choose a location of a menu like this
#header{
margin:0px;
padding:0px;
width: 100%;
height: 73px;
background-image:url(../images/header4.jpg);
}
#header img{
float: left;
}
#header ul li{
float:right;
font-size:10px;
/*line-height: 14px;*/
margin:0px;
padding:0px;
}
#header ul a {
text-decoration:none;
color:#4d4325;
}
Thanks
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[WSG] Making an image come right up to a list
I have a div within that div I have a menu set as a ul followed right
underneath by an image. Currently there is unwanted space between the
list elements and the image. There doesn't seem to be any padding or
margins that would cause this.
I am including my current css for this div
#mainNav{
padding-left: 10px;
padding-right: 10px;
height: 600px;
width: 230px;
float: left;
font-size:8px;
}
#mainNav ul a {
margin:0;
padding:0;
display:block;
line-height:45px;
text-decoration:none;
color:#00;
background:url(../images/button3.jpg);
text-indent:35px;
left center;
}
#mainNav img {
float: right;
}
--
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
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Re: [WSG] Making an image come right up to a list
Tried all the resettings and added the css to remove default margins
from elements and still have the issue.
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
Tijmen Smit wrote:
Add this - #mainNav ul {margin:0; padding:0;} to your stylesheet.
Also have a look at css reset -
http://www.search-this.com/2007/03/12/no-margin-for-error/ , that
prevents you from running into stuff like this,
Theres also no such thing as left center; :)
Regards,
Tijmen
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Michael Horowitz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have a div within that div I have a menu set as a ul followed
right underneath by an image. Currently there is unwanted space
between the list elements and the image. There doesn't seem to be
any padding or margins that would cause this.
I am including my current css for this div
#mainNav{
padding-left: 10px;
padding-right: 10px;
height: 600px;
width: 230px;
float: left;
font-size:8px;
}
#mainNav ul a {
margin:0;
padding:0;
display:block;
line-height:45px;
text-decoration:none;
color:#00;
background:url(../images/button3.jpg);
text-indent:35px;
left center;
}
#mainNav img {
float: right;
}
--
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com http://yourcomputerconsultant.com/
561-394-9079
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Re: [WSG] Making an image come right up to a list
Sure just put it up at http://horowitzfamily.net/ Also wondering why
my footer is so far down
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
Tijmen Smit wrote:
Thats really weird, I tested it and it worked fine. Do you have that
page online somewhere?
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 10:01 PM, Michael Horowitz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Tried all the resettings and added the css to remove default
margins from elements and still have the issue.
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com http://yourcomputerconsultant.com/
561-394-9079
Tijmen Smit wrote:
Add this - #mainNav ul {margin:0; padding:0;} to your
stylesheet. Also have a look at css reset -
http://www.search-this.com/2007/03/12/no-margin-for-error/ ,
that prevents you from running into stuff like this,
Theres also no such thing as left center; :)
Regards,
Tijmen
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Michael Horowitz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have a div within that div I have a menu set as a ul followed
right underneath by an image. Currently there is unwanted
space
between the list elements and the image. There doesn't
seem to be
any padding or margins that would cause this.
I am including my current css for this div
#mainNav{
padding-left: 10px;
padding-right: 10px;
height: 600px;
width: 230px;
float: left;
font-size:8px;
}
#mainNav ul a {
margin:0;
padding:0;
display:block;
line-height:45px;
text-decoration:none;
color:#00;
background:url(../images/button3.jpg);
text-indent:35px;
left center;
}
#mainNav img {
float: right;
}
--Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com/
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com/
561-394-9079
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Re: [WSG] Making an image come right up to a list
I just figured out the reason it isn't coming right up the list. Its
the image that makes the background of the list.
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
Tijmen Smit wrote:
Thats really weird, I tested it and it worked fine. Do you have that
page online somewhere?
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 10:01 PM, Michael Horowitz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Tried all the resettings and added the css to remove default
margins from elements and still have the issue.
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com http://yourcomputerconsultant.com/
561-394-9079
Tijmen Smit wrote:
Add this - #mainNav ul {margin:0; padding:0;} to your
stylesheet. Also have a look at css reset -
http://www.search-this.com/2007/03/12/no-margin-for-error/ ,
that prevents you from running into stuff like this,
Theres also no such thing as left center; :)
Regards,
Tijmen
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Michael Horowitz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have a div within that div I have a menu set as a ul followed
right underneath by an image. Currently there is unwanted
space
between the list elements and the image. There doesn't
seem to be
any padding or margins that would cause this.
I am including my current css for this div
#mainNav{
padding-left: 10px;
padding-right: 10px;
height: 600px;
width: 230px;
float: left;
font-size:8px;
}
#mainNav ul a {
margin:0;
padding:0;
display:block;
line-height:45px;
text-decoration:none;
color:#00;
background:url(../images/button3.jpg);
text-indent:35px;
left center;
}
#mainNav img {
float: right;
}
--Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com/
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com/
561-394-9079
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Re: [WSG] Making an image come right up to a list
Thanks on this one. Just forgot about setting the height Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Susan Grossman wrote: Sure just put it up at http://horowitzfamily.net/ Also wondering why my footer is so far down Michael Horowitz - I think your footer is way down because 1) you have a height set of 650 on the left nav 2) You're clearing all floats and putting the fotter at the bottom of everything at their full height Susan *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Making an image come right up to a list
thanks for the advice 0 out the padding and margins fixed several
problems. Especially after spelled my div right in the css :)
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
Susan Grossman wrote:
I have a div within that div I have a menu set as a
ul followed
right underneath by an image. Currently there is
unwanted
space
between the list elements and the image. There doesn't
seem to be
any padding or margins that would cause this.
It looks like you need to zero out the padding and margin on the
default ul in your style sheet
ul {
list-style-type:none;
}
--
Susan R. Grossman
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[WSG] IE loses background image
My background image is disappearing in IE 7 but shows up in Firefox,
Opera and safari. It's at horowitzfamily.net
I'm thinking I have a conflict between different background images
I have verified I have valid css
http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile=css21warning=0uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.horowitzfamily.net%2F
#mainNav ul a {
margin:0;
padding:0;
display:block;
line-height:40px;
text-decoration:none;
color:#00;
background:url(../images/button3.jpg)no-repeat;
font-size: 10px;
color:#4d4325;
font-weight:bold;
text-indent:35px;
}
#mainNav img {
margin:0px;
padding:0px;
display:block;
float: left;
}
body {
font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
background-image:url(../images/background.jpg);
font-size:10px;
}
--
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
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[WSG] Aligning a menu to the bottom of a div
I have a horizontal menu in my header div and I would like it to be
aligned at the bottom of my div instead of the top. I've used
vertical-align: bottom but that isn't working
#header ul li{
float:right;
font-size:10px;
height: 80px;
vertical-align: bottom;
}
A 2nd question originally put my height in the header element but when I
added the #header ul li I found it stopped working so I moved it there.
I would love any ideas why I needed to do that.
--
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
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Re: [WSG] Aligning a menu to the bottom of a div
If I wanted to replace my pixels with em's what would I do? I've seen
some discussion of them but aren't an expert. I did a fix with margin
that did work
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd wrote:
Hi Micheal, if you change the containing DIV to a em based height then
adding a em value to the margin-top selector in your css would ensure it
stays at the bottom even if the page is resized. Nice easy solution and
makes it accessible in all browsers then.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Michael Horowitz
Sent: 29 July 2008 22:56
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Aligning a menu to the bottom of a div
I have a horizontal menu in my header div and I would like it to be
aligned at the bottom of my div instead of the top. I've used
vertical-align: bottom but that isn't working
#header ul li{
float:right;
font-size:10px;
height: 80px;
vertical-align: bottom;
}
A 2nd question originally put my height in the header element but when I
added the #header ul li I found it stopped working so I moved it there.
I would love any ideas why I needed to do that.
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[WSG] Why css settings a background image in the body tag wouldn't work
I have set a background image in my body tag
body {
font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
background-image:url(../images/background.jpg)
font-size:10px;
}
I am finding I am having to put this info instead in my div's
Im sure it is some silly problem
Thanks
--
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
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Re: [WSG] Why css settings a background image in the body tag wouldn't work plus 2nd issue of space between divs
Sure happy to give you my current css.
Add in a 2nd problem I use margin-top in #header ul li to move my header
to the bottom of the header div. But when I do that it puts blank space
between the #header and the #mainNav and #content below it.
Should I be wrapping those two div in another di and clearing it like I
have a clear on my footer?
Thanks for the help this is only my 2nd tableless site.
#wrapper {
width: 800px;
position:relative;
left: 50%;
margin-left: -400px;
}
#header{
width: 800px;
height: 80px;
background-image:url(../images/header.jpg)
}
#header ul li{
float:right;
font-size:10px;
height: 80px;
margin-top: 45px;
}
#header ul a {
text-decoration:none;
color:#00;
}
body {
font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
background-image:url(../images/background.jpg)
font-size:10px;
}
#mainNav{
padding-bottom: 20px;
padding-left: 10px;
padding-right: 10px;
height: 380px;
width: 150px;
float: left;
font-size:10px;
background-image:url(../images/background.jpg)
}
#mainNav ul a {
text-decoration:none;
color:#00;
}
#content{
width: 600px;
float:right;
font-size:10px;
color:gray;
background-image:url(../images/background.jpg)
}
#footer{
clear:both;
width: 800px;
background-image:url(../images/background.jpg)
}
ul {
list-style-type: none;
}
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
Matthew Holloway wrote:
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Michael Horowitz
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am finding I am having to put this info instead in my div's
Im sure it is some silly problem
Could you post some HTML/CSS?
If it's a silly problem then it's probably syntax, or that relative
paths are different from the HTML to CSS, etc.
.Matthew Holloway
http://holloway.co.nz/
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Re: [WSG] Why css settings a background image in the body tag wouldn't work
Just rechecked was missing a ; at the end of the backround image css ie background-image:url(../images/background.jpg) instead of background-image:url(../images/background.jpg); Strange it worked in the divs I would have thought it would break everywhere. ..Now if I can just find someone to tell me why I am getting space between by header div and the rest of the site Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Matthew Holloway wrote: On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am finding I am having to put this info instead in my div's Im sure it is some silly problem Could you post some HTML/CSS? If it's a silly problem then it's probably syntax, or that relative paths are different from the HTML to CSS, etc. .Matthew Holloway http://holloway.co.nz/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Removing space from division between header and content wasWhy css settings a background image in the body tag wouldn't work
I made some changes that I think resolved the problem (at least in
Dreamweaver)
#header ul li{
float:right;
font-size:10px;
margin-top: 50px;
padding-bottom:10px;
}
Now here is my question someone mentioned starting to use em instead of
pixels for all of this. How does this work?
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
Matthew Holloway wrote:
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Michael Horowitz
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am finding I am having to put this info instead in my div's
Im sure it is some silly problem
Could you post some HTML/CSS?
If it's a silly problem then it's probably syntax, or that relative
paths are different from the HTML to CSS, etc.
.Matthew Holloway
http://holloway.co.nz/
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[WSG] Javascript to change pages web standards question
So here is a question. Was recently fixing some errors on a site I took over. We have a page that produces a list of accounts and limits it to x number of people per page. Then we have another form element that chooses which page of data we view. Javascript is used so when we change the element from page 1 to page 2 it calls a php script that does a new query for the next x number of people and displays the results on that page. In this case its an intranet app so I know everyone will have a mouse and javascript enabled but how would you code if you wanted to go to web standards and have a fallback. -- Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Help
What you would want to do is learn a programming language like PHP http://us2.php.net/tut.php Stay away from FrontPage it isn't even supported by Microsoft anymore. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Bidemi Adejumo wrote: Thanks but how do i do it without a frontpage enabled server. Is there a way i can learn it? Bidemi. On 7/9/08, Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just a note on web standards You can also be interactive with html. You will also have your guestbook run faster and be more accessible. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Bidemi Adejumo wrote: I guess at not a wrong group coz we're to share ideas. Flash b'cos its creat interactive platforms. On 7/6/08, Matijs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wrong group I'm afraid Bidemi, but one wonders, why Flash in the first place? On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 2:20 AM, Bidemi Adejumo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All, Is there anyone who can design guestbook with flash? I guess you know what the question means.. .. I want someone to teach me how to develop guest book with flash. Thanks Bidemi. -- Love to be Loved! *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Book ideas for updating skills to modern html xhtml standards
Both references look like what I am looking for and alot cheaper than a book. thanks Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Michael Vogt wrote: Hi. Although not in book format, Opera Software has released The Web Standards Curriculum which can be found at: http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/1-introduction-to-the-web-standards-cur/ This may be of reference and help. Google Doctype might also be a good source of up to date information. Also not a book, though: http://code.google.com/doctype/ Greetings, Michael Vogt *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Book ideas for updating skills to modern html xhtml standards
Is there a good book (something like Oreilly's nutsshell series) that works as a good desk reference for (x)html standards people recommend? Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Book ideas for updating skills to modern html xhtml standards
I'm looking over the description now but will note for anyone else the sitepoint book is alot cheaper on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-HTML-Reference-Ian-Lloyd/dp/0980285887/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1215992940sr=1-1 Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Michael Horowitz wrote: Is there a good book (something like Oreilly's nutsshell series) that works as a good desk reference for (x)html standards people recommend? A few suggestions would be Paul Haine's XHTML Mastery http://www.amazon.com/HTML-Mastery-Semantics-Standards-Styling/dp/1590597656 and Ian Lloyd's Sitepoint book http://www.sitepoint.com/books/htmlref1/ P *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Help
Just a note on web standards You can also be interactive with html. You will also have your guestbook run faster and be more accessible. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Bidemi Adejumo wrote: I guess at not a wrong group coz we're to share ideas. Flash b'cos its creat interactive platforms. On 7/6/08, Matijs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wrong group I'm afraid Bidemi, but one wonders, why Flash in the first place? On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 2:20 AM, Bidemi Adejumo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All, Is there anyone who can design guestbook with flash? I guess you know what the question means.. .. I want someone to teach me how to develop guest book with flash. Thanks Bidemi. -- Love to be Loved! *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] firefox 3 beta5
If its a Beta I would say wait until its done before rewriting anything that is currently W3C CSS compliant. Remember beta means not done. If you are interested in judging beta releases test it an decide why its breaking. Are you currently fulfilling W3C standards. If you are and its breaking it would sound like the beta has a bug than your code having a bug. Does your site pass the validator. It does look like they are expecting the final release in June The Mozilla team has not specified a final ship date for Firefox 3 but sources in the linux distribution community say they were promised final copies in June. http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=2450 The project site http://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox3 Here are the release notes http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/3.0rc1/releasenotes/ Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 David Dorward wrote: On 19 May 2008, at 10:37, kevin mcmonagle wrote: Recently it was pointed out to me that a site I built is breaking in firefox 3 beta five. How close is this to release? RC1 just came out Do i need to worry about this? the site works fine in current browsers-firefox and otherwise. I'd be concerned. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] PHP Standards
I am guessing that PHP is much like JavaScript in that a lot of what is floating about is either poor or pooh the result of all the good programmes stending their time on ASP or J2EE Why woul you think the good programmers spend their time and ASP or J2EE? Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Designer wrote: I think that it's basically your responsibility Ian, in that there are many sources of snippets available and if you use them you just validate the generated code and put right what is wrong in the php. Then, you check for best practice too . . . Bob Ian Chamberlain wrote: Fingers crossed this is not too far off topic; being a newby to PHP; any clues where I can find how-to's, snippets, libraries or even application suites built from PHP that are built to a good minimum standard please. I am guessing that PHP is much like JavaScript in that a lot of what is floating about is either poor or pooh the result of all the good programmes stending their time on ASP or J2EE. Thanks Ian *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] [OT] users - IT literate?
It sounds like your user has a virus. However when it comes to literacy most people using websites are computer competent or they wouldn't be surfing the web in the first place. Over time more and more people will be computer savvy and the current generation grew up with the web as a normal part of their culture and their education. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Designer wrote: I have doing a site for someone for a few years now. He recently requested a few minor changes whilst he was at my office, so I did them whilst he was present, and he approved. Today he wrote to me from his home: The changes you made to my website are not showing at this end. Do I need to access a different website address or access it anew perhaps ? Also, I've just realised why my photos are missing: there's an unwanted tool bar blocking access to them. The page he refers to has one composite image at the top. No flash, dead simple html. Deary me - I've no idea what he means! N.B. This is, actually, on-topic because it indicates just how ignorant some users are - many in my experience - and it flies in the face of those members of this list who believe that most users know about the 'back button' (to give one example). Just off in search of my revolver . . . Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Older Browsers
I don't think it is worth the time an effort to support old browsers like IE 5. There aren't enough users who are surfing the web using such old equipment to be worth the development time and expense. There is always another browser to test. I think we need to focus on the major ways people access the web not the handful of people with IE 1.0 Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Robert O'Rourke wrote: Krystian - Sunlust wrote: IE5 ? Each time I hear about IE5 I want to laugh, honestly, IE6 is old, and most companies that actually create revenue in our modern times use Vista and IE7, who would worry/use IE5? My friend who I just finished designing website for is using IE6 but his computer is like 2-3 years old, what kind of a company uses that old hardware ?? Anyway, end with the rant, in my opinion there should be some strong compaign to cut the usage of IE5 and IE6 because it's just silly to try to develop modern websites in our web 2.0 world for those useless browsers. It's like trying to design new aeroplanes and test them with steam engines instead of jet ones. Get a grip, for old browsers theres only one kind of a website I would create: Click this button to download Firefox. Regards, I had a customer recently whom I had prepared a rough demo page for, it worked for ie6,7, Opera and FF but when I got some feedback they weren't happy in the slightest because I'd sent them a mess. Anyway, we checked the server logs and it turned out they were using an unpatched IE5 on an unpatched windows 98! (which of course was perfectly reasonable, just uncommon). We convinced them to upgrade their IT equipment but it was an eye opener. It never pays to assume that everyone is/should be bang up to date just because you are sick of working around IE bugs (we all are). Assumption is the mother of all ups. If you don't write CSS for those very old browsers eg. IE5.x (which I must admit I don't) I find it best to hide the CSS from those browsers altogether using conditional comments and the media attribute when linking to CSS. Using the same approach you can add a note to say why the site looks the way it does. re. 'some strong campaign': http://www.savethedevelopers.org/ -Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Full flash websites
The look good but aren't standards. You pretty much hit the head on the problem. The same usability problems also give them a problem with being found by search engines. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Michael Persson wrote: The company I worl with has a big love for full flash websites and we have produced some very nice but heavy and slow ones. What do you people, professionals and hobby standardists think about full flash websites?? where is the usability and accessibility for flash in general?? I am personally and professionally against them as they cut of the usabiity, have bad accessibility and for me the navigation most often i very difficult and difficult to use. Michael Persson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?
Can you explain to me a little bit more of the theory of why you would
want to use and id vs a class called center is this type of situation.
Trying to understand more how this becomes an issue of separating
presentation and content.
Thanks
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
Joseph Taylor wrote:
FYI - Adding such a named class, especially with the name center or
center goes against separation of presentation and content.
In a situation where your HTML looks like:
div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
/div
You should change it to something like:
div id=my_section
div
my images /
/div
div
my images /
/div
div
my images /
/div
/div
Then your CSS rule could look more like:
#my_section div {
text-align: center;
margin: 5px;
}
One day you'll wish that div didn't have the class name of center,
especially if there are a bunch of them. Just give an id to the
container that would hold them all and use your css selectors to
isolate the elements you wish to style.
In the end, either choice will create the same effect. This one is a
little more future proof.
Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Fax: (866) 301-8045
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Stuart Foulstone wrote:
Or use a CSS class to do the same,
div class=”centre”
and
.centre {
text-align: center;
}
On Sat, May 3, 2008 10:22 am, Diego La Monica wrote:
What about div style=”text-align: center” ?
Diego La Monica
Web 2.0 - Standards - Accessibilità
mobile: +39 3337235382 - skype: diego.la.monica
web: http://diegolamonica.info - http://jastegg.it
_
Da: Simon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Inviato: sabato 3 maggio 2008 11.15
A: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Oggetto: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?
Hi,
I know that the align attribute such as div align=”center” is not
allowed
in XHTML Strict, but it got me thinking on what the possible
alternatives
are for a dynamic environment such as a forum?
For instance if I know the image width or the total width of all the
images
will be the same I usually put them in a wrapper with a fixed width and
use
margin: 5px auto as an example.
What happens if you will never know the width of the images or how many
images someone may post, as happens on a forum I run. I’ve resorted to
creating a bbcode tag that uses div align=”center” as that is the
only
way
I can think of.
Are these scenarios always doomed to use transitional doctypes and
deprecated code?
I’d be interested in your opinions
Cheers
Simon
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[WSG] IE 6 bugs
I have a site http://www.agilecreditreport.com whose homepage displays correctly in IE 7, Firefox and Opera and displays incorrectly in IE 6. So this is one of those famed IE 6 bugs that is hopefully going away soon. Two issue sidebar shows up on top and not on the side and some of the fields have a yellow background (less important issue) Any ideas would be appreciated. Thank -- Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] premature to test/worry new site for IE8?
You need to be worried if IE 8 isn't compliant with standards or standards changes that don't exist today are implemented in ie 8. There really is no way to guarantee everything will run in a browser that currently doesn't exist. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 tee wrote: I am about to start coding for a new site, and client asked me to make sure my code will work for IE8, meaning when IE 8 comes out, she doesn't need to pay me extra to fix any problem that may occur in IE 8. Client is from a web media company, though I understand her concerns and that she has to answer to her client, but I just don't know how or if I should commit to such 'expectation'. Last time with IE 7, there was no problem and none of the sites I coded for her break when IE 7 came out. I think this version targeting thing really got people worry. Say, I code my CSS with best practice just like I'd always do, and treat IE browsers with CC should it be needed. Do I need to worry anything with IE8? It didn't occur to me to worry anything at all until client was making this request. Thanks! tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] help with background color
I'm thinking span class=clientclient name here/span Then set the background-color for .client in the css file. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 kate wrote: Hi Laert, Something like at W3C? http://www.w3schools.com/css/tryit.asp?filename=trycss_background-color Kate http://jungaling.com/katesplace/ http://jungaling.com/Malaysia/ - Original Message - *From:* Laert Jansen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org mailto:wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Sent:* Friday, April 25, 2008 7:51 PM *Subject:* [WSG] help with background color Hello everyone! I am looking for some help here. I want to apply a background to the names of the clients on my website (www.laertjansen.com http://www.laertjansen.com) I did it to the text on the top ..there´s a black background..and I want a blue bg on the client´s name but its not working. How do I do this? I attached an image to show what I want to do Thanks a lot! -- Laert Jansen www.laertjansen.com http://www.laertjansen.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1397 - Release Date: 25/04/2008 07:42 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE 6 bugs
Looking at my site putting with widths up in Firefox it doesn't look like its too wide. However I did just add padding so I'm wondering if thats the issue. Thanks for letting me know where to look at least. I'll be offline for Passover till sunday but will let you know how it turns out. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 russ - maxdesign wrote: So this is one of those famed IE 6 bugs that is hopefully going away soon. Two issue sidebar shows up on top and not on the side and some of the fields have a yellow background (less important issue) Without looking in detail, when a column drops in IE6 there are normally 2 common reasons. 1. The most common cause is setting a margin on one of the floated columns that triggers a double margin float bug. In your case this does not seem to be the issue. 2. The next common cause is to do with content that is too wide for the parent container. You have two columns (#colLeft or #colRight) inside a parent container (#container). There is a possibility that some element inside one of the two columns (#colLeft or #colRight) is wider than the column itself. In most browsers this will not be an issue. The width of the columns (#colLeft or #colRight) will be honoured -regardless of the width of content inside. However, IE6 will honour the width of content inside the columns (#colLeft or #colRight) rather than the width assigned to the columns. This means that the column may appear wider in IE than other browsers. This has a spill-over effect... If the two columns (#colLeft or #colRight) have defined widths (240px and 530px), and they sit inside a parent (#container) that also has a defined width (770px) then the two columns may not fit if IE has determined that one of these two columns is wider. So, IE6 will allow the second column (#colRight) to drop below the first column (#colLeft). You can quickly test this by commenting out the content inside the columns (I'd start with content inside #colRight where all the action is) and see if the layout suddenly works again. If this happens, you will know the culprit and can deal with it - by assigning a specific width or using one of the more nasty work-arounds: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/column-collapse/ The yellow background in form elements may be a case of Mystical Yellow Form Fields http://www.htmldog.com/ptg/archives/17.php HTH Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Image placement
I need to modify a page to add two images next to image button. In the original css the image button is in a div that is centered on the page. I don't see a semantic need to add any new divs so I increased the width of the div to make it the entire size of my page and then need to decide how to best place my images on either side. The old way I'm used to laying this out would have been to have a table and put each image in a table definition td area but I'm trying to stay away from that type of layout. I'm reading about absolute and relative positioning and getting a bit confused on how to progress on this -- Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver8
Actually a good part of a discussion is what editors best facilitate coding in standards. I think we need to focus the discussion on that facet. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 John Hancock wrote: Please, please, please everyone. Discuss web standards on the web standards group mailing list, and my text/WYSIWY editor is better than yours on the HTML Editors mailing list... If there isn't one, feel free to set it up. thanks, Grumpy John. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver CS3
I use dreamweaver for my (x)html coding. Even though I primarily do hand coding but like it to see what my visual looks like. When I get to PHP I switch to Crimson Editor. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Jason Pruim wrote: On Apr 4, 2008, at 7:19 AM, James Jeffery wrote: I've been thinking about buying the new version of Photoshop and Illustrator, as i just purchased a new dual core iMac. Currently i use BBEdit but im thinking about switching to Dreamweaver as i might aswell purchase the creative suite. Is the new dreamweaver any good for us developers? This may not seem related to web standards but i feel it does because back when i used dreamweaver - it was the days when it bloated out your code and caused friction for many developers. I used dreamweaver for a little bit until my development turned more towards programming in PHP, I didn't like how dreamweaver showed the PHP (If at all actually...) so now I use XCode which is part of the developer tools for Macs and is free. It has syntax highlighting for just about every kind of language out there and works great for me. -- Jason Pruim Raoset Inc. Technology Manager MQC Specialist 3251 132nd ave Holland, MI, 49424-9337 www.raoset.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver CS3
One thing to realize is dreamweaver does often use non web standard rules for creating HTML. While it can help you create code it is not a substitution for knowing code. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 fiona herbert wrote: Hi James. I am new to the developing world. I do have dreamweaver cs3 and think it is absolutely great and would recommend it to anyone. Regards Fi On 4/4/08, *James Jeffery* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been thinking about buying the new version of Photoshop and Illustrator, as i just purchased a new dual core iMac. Currently i use BBEdit but im thinking about switching to Dreamweaver as i might aswell purchase the creative suite. Is the new dreamweaver any good for us developers? This may not seem related to web standards but i feel it does because back when i used dreamweaver - it was the days when it bloated out your code and caused friction for many developers. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Frames and title relevance to screen readers....
I will admit to being surprised that people aren't screaming don't use frames. I guess that will by my first question, why are you using frames. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Anat Katz wrote: thanks for that Stuart. We have already implemented frame titles, we were actually referring to the page titles (found within the HEAD) of the html that makes up the page within the frame. If these were left blank would it cause a problem??? Frame: frame src=page.html name=BodyContent id=BodyContent title=Main Content longdesc=frameset-desc.html#BodyContent noresize=noresize / page.html: HEAD TITLE???/TITLE /HEAD Cheers, Anat -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stuart Foulstone Sent: Wednesday, 2 April 2008 8:43 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Frames and title relevance to screen readers Hi, You might find the following link useful: See http://www.webaim.org/techniques/frames/ Stuart On Wed, April 2, 2008 1:13 am, Anat Katz wrote: Hi team, Just a general question - is there any value from a screen reader point of view, to have a specific title to the actual pages that were build /called by the frameset. Is there any value for screen reader's users? I.e.: the page that contains the main content, should have a specific /relevant page title? Do screen readers read the page title of each one of the pages of the frameset? Or do they only read the one frameset page title? Example: Recipes page title as opposed to main content page title. (please note I am not referring to the titles of the frames in the frameset, see example below) frame src=page.html name=BodyContent id=BodyContent title=Main Content longdesc=frameset-desc.html#BodyContent noresize=noresize / Cheers, Anat This email and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information and are intended for the named addressee only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail immediately. Any confidentiality, privilege or copyright is not waived or lost because this e-mail has been sent to you in error. It is your responsibility to check this e-mail and any attachments for viruses. No warranty is made that this material is free from computer virus or any other defect or error. Any loss/damage incurred by using this material is not the sender's responsibility. The sender's entire liability will be limited to resupplying the material. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** This email and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information and are intended for the named addressee only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail immediately. Any confidentiality, privilege or copyright is not waived or lost because this e-mail has been sent to you in error. It is your responsibility to check this e-mail and any attachments for viruses. No warranty is made that this material is free from computer virus or any other defect or error. Any loss/damage incurred by using this material is not the sender's responsibility. The sender's entire liability will be limited to resupplying the material. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] USERS - was [Why is u deprecated?]
I find most do. I think there is a wide disparity depending on who you work with. Over time we are going to move to a much more educated group of users. Students coming out of college now are highly computer literate and web savvy. The next generation of users growing up using myspace and linked in are not going to have problems using the back button. And they will be used to seeing various different types of links actually used rather than what we say they should be. On the other and the current older generation which makes up a lot of senior managements 50+ age group may be the group you are discussing. One group has never known a world without the web and sees it an an integral part of their generations social identity while the other group first started to use it as needed for business. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Designer wrote: Keryx Web wrote: Underlines on paper have no usability impact, since you cant click on it! Underlines on web pages have a usability impact, since people think they are clickable links. Just out of interest, I did a site map recently and all the links were red and underlined, at least on hover. The client moaned and didn't like the red or the underline. I explained that it was 'standard convention for links'. The response was oh, I didn't realise that!. Thing is, this person and her current staff of three have been using a PC since 1998. No one else knew either. So I did a simple test on all of them. NO-one (that's big fat zero) knew what the 'back-button' was . . . This is what I find time and time again. Contrary to some of the comments l hear on this list, my experience is such that most computer users haven't got the first clue about how to use their machines, even after ten years . . . I wish we had real information on this, because it has a direct bearing on whether we should be holding users hands whilst designing a site, or assuming (wrongly) that users have 'choices'. (open in a new tab? you must be joking!!) Bob www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] a target=” blank” not part of xhtml
I just read how a target=”_blank” is not part of xhtml Why not. I can't imagine its better practice to replace it with javascript. http://weblogtoolscollection.com/archives/2004/01/02/targetblank-xhtml-10-strict-conversion/ -- Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] a target=” blank” not part of x html
Has the same problem. Target is not xhtml. Are people arguing web standards prohibit opening a new page in a new browser or tab? Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Rob Kirton wrote: Michael I would recommend that you use target=_new and then use XHTML transitional DTD -- Regards - Rob Raising web standards : http://ele.vation.co.uk Linking in with others: http://linkedin.com/in/robkirton On 27/03/2008, *Michael Horowitz* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just read how a target=_blank is not part of xhtml Why not. I can't imagine its better practice to replace it with javascript. http://weblogtoolscollection.com/archives/2004/01/02/targetblank-xhtml-10-strict-conversion/ -- Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Why is u deprecated?
Here I found they are not technically depreciated but they have recommended replacements |b| Although technically not deprecated, W3C recommends the |strong |element be used instead. |i| Although technically not deprecated, W3C recommends the |em |element be used instead. http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/clf2-nsi2/tb-bo/td-dt/adea-sread-eng.asp It does look like they are part of the presentation module http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-modularization/abstract_modules.html#s_presentationmodule Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Kepler Gelotte wrote: Hi, I am just curious if anyone can explain why the u tag has been deprecated while b and i are still allowed. Thanks in advance. Best regards, Kepler Gelotte Neighbor Webmaster, Inc. 156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854 www.neighborwebmaster.com phone/fax: (732) 302-0904 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
I always remind people if music auto starts the potential customers can't come to your site at work because they won't want their boss to hear the music blaring. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 dwain wrote: On 3/17/08, *kevin mcmonagle* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi, Im doing a site for a nightclub. So im doing a hybrid. The owner has demanded a music track playing continuously. What would you lot do if you had to put in a continually playing music track? i would suggest allowing the user to stop the music if they so choose. not everybody likes the same music or song, so he could lose many visitors because of the continuous track with no way to stop it. on the other hand a visitor could mute the sound. dwain -- dwain alford The artist may use any form which his expression demands; for his inner impulse must find suitable expression. Kandinsky *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE8 news
Your problem is government doesn't care about what works for users. I'm suprised it works on Firefox and IE 6 but not 7 as I thought 7 was more not less standards compliant. But most businesses that actually make money from the web will have to go with the market and work with the latest release of IE. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Keryx Web wrote: aleagi skrev: Hello Mike, I agree with you. There's a lot of users still working in obsolete machines or/by option, browsing with IE6. That would be all of my colleagues - and me if I want to access the intranet for our town. It won't work in MSIE 7 (and hence not in MSIE 8 with any switch.) I carry around FFox on a USB stick to avoid this nightmare. Yes, I've complained. I have written about it in our local paper. I have pleaded. I have done everything in my power. What do the brainiacs at the IT department answer. We don't see this as a problem. IE 6 works. As long as all sites work in IE6/7 and some intranets won't work in any other, we are stuck. Let's do break the web - free from bad browsers! Lars Gunther *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
What are the SEO issues in web standards? Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Keith Steinacher wrote: What I meant by 1 set fee was I'll get you top rankings on all search engines and fix all your woes for $99.99!! Charging by the page or per hour (as I do it) is more legitimate. Some projects you can't really charge by the page though. I have one client who's site has 600,000 pages or more. I'm not going to go through it page by page. At that point it becomes necessary to make the SEO of a site more dynamic. While anyone can learn how to do SEO from a book or an online class, it doesn't necessary mean that they can take your site (of any size) and make it number 1 for a canned fee. Anyone that tells you that is not to be trusted. On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 6:07 PM, dwain [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/4/08, *Keith Steinacher* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wouldn't pay much attention to anyone that says they can solve all of your site's problems for 1 set fee. why not? i charge by the page and do the seo myself. there's a free class at: http://www.gnc-web-creations.com/seo-optimization.htm dwain -- dwain alford The artist may use any form which his expression demands; for his inner impulse must find suitable expression. Kandinsky *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Keith Steinacher Chief Bottle-Washer *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
BTW out of curiosity I googled and SEO firm someone I know used and the firm wasn't in the top 10 ranking it claimed it could put its customers in. Did see a good article on it though *What's an SEO? Does Google recommend working with companies that offer to make my site Google-friendly? * http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=enanswer=35291 Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Andrew Boyd wrote: Hi Keith, I suspect that Michael may be inferring that SEO is not a fit and proper subject for the WSG list. I'm happy either way - it isn't strictly web standards per se, but neither is IE8 Beta's underperformance, and I am glad to learn about both without subscribing to other lists. Moderaptor call I guess :) Cheers, Andrew *Andrew Boyd *Consultant *SMS Management Technology* M 0413 048 542 T +61 2 6279 7100 F +61 2 6279 7101 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *About SMS: *Ground Floor, 8 Brindabella Circuit, CANBERRA AIRPORT ACT 2609 www.smsmt.com https://magellan.smsmt.com/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.smsmt.com/ SMS Management Technology (SMS) [ASX:SMX] is Australia's largest, publicly listed Management Services company. We solve complex problems and transform business through Consulting, People and Technology *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Steinacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] *Sent:* Friday, 7 March 2008 1:36 PM *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction I don't really understand your question. On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 8:59 AM, Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are the SEO issues in web standards? Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Keith Steinacher wrote: What I meant by 1 set fee was I'll get you top rankings on all search engines and fix all your woes for $99.99!! Charging by the page or per hour (as I do it) is more legitimate. Some projects you can't really charge by the page though. I have one client who's site has 600,000 pages or more. I'm not going to go through it page by page. At that point it becomes necessary to make the SEO of a site more dynamic. While anyone can learn how to do SEO from a book or an online class, it doesn't necessary mean that they can take your site (of any size) and make it number 1 for a canned fee. Anyone that tells you that is not to be trusted. On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 6:07 PM, dwain [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/4/08, *Keith Steinacher* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wouldn't pay much attention to anyone that says they can solve all of your site's problems for 1 set fee. why not? i charge by the page and do the seo myself. there's a free class at: http://www.gnc-web-creations.com/seo-optimization.htm dwain -- dwain alford The artist may use any form which his expression demands; for his inner impulse must find suitable expression. Kandinsky *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Keith Steinacher Chief Bottle-Washer *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Keith Steinacher Chief Bottle-Washer *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED
Re: [WSG] pls help me
You would need to give URL's and specific examples of the problem. Are there web standards issues or just javascript not working. If it is a problem with javascript you should find a javascript forum such as http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/JavaScript_Official/ Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Gitanjali wrote: Hello Im using Spry validations in my site. The validations r not working for asp pages in IE. All browsers r supporting html pages even IE too. But IE is not supporting validations for asp pages. Cud anybody solve this problem for me. Thank u. -- Regards. Gitanjali, Web Designer. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE8 news
Setup a virtual machine and do it there. Much safer. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 aleagi wrote: Yeah, I'm afraid to install it and kick IE6 and 7 out of my box! Anyone with the guts to do it? @:D Regards. Aleagi . On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet? http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install.htm Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if it can run standalone... P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] multiple css style sheets
Just inherited a site and saw pages with multiple style sheets. Is there a reason for that and how does the browser determine what to use if there is a conflict -- Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] multiple css style sheets
Is there a difference or specific reason to use the @import
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
Kane Tapping wrote:
Hi ,
How do browsers determine the winner in a conflict... well, AFAIK,
they take the first style that is most relevant to the element.
That would be the LAST style that is most relevant to the element.
(unless !important is used to override the cascade.)
It also worth noting that multiple stylesheets are also commonly
referenced within CSS using @import.
The main benefit of using multiple stylesheets is for modular code.
Kind Regards,
Kane Tapping
Web Standards Developer
Web and Content Management Services
Griffith University. 4111. Australia._
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Phone: +61 (0)7 3735 7630
*Steven Workman [EMAIL PROTECTED]*
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
28/02/2008 03:36 AM
Please respond to
wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
To
wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
cc
Subject
Re: [WSG] multiple css style sheets
Michael,
Multiple style sheets are quite common in large sites. Splitting your
stylesheets into a basics, main and special cases is good for
keeping your code separate, also allowing multiple developers to work
on different areas of a site's styles without interrupting each other.
It's also becoming more common that any off the shelf javascript
techniques come with their own stylesheets i.e. Cody Lindley's Thickbox.
How do browsers determine the winner in a conflict... well, AFAIK,
they take the first style that is most relevant to the element.
Say you had ullispan class=bobSome text/span/li/ul
If your first stylesheet said:
ul li { color:red;
}
and the second one said
.bob { color: blue;
}
It would render as *blue*.
However, if the first one said
ul li .bob { color:red;
}
and the second one remained the same
.bob { color: blue;
}
It would render as *red
*
Steve Workman
PA Consulting Group_
__www.paconsulting.com_ http://www.paconsulting.com/_
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]_
__www.steel-software.com_ http://www.steel-software.com/
On 27/02/2008, *Michael Horowitz*
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Just inherited a site and saw pages with multiple style sheets. Is
there a reason for that and how does the browser determine what to use
if there is a conflict
--
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant_
__http://yourcomputerconsultant.com_ http://yourcomputerconsultant.com/
561-394-9079
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Re: [WSG] form problem
I hadn't realized I had the link break. I had also had an issue where their were additional spaces between textarea and main. I thought whitespace didn't matter for xhtml though. Question anyone see why the textarea is showing up on a different line than the label. Everywhere else it lines up correctly. It doesn't seem that I am out of space. It looks ok in Dreamweaver but the problem occurs in both IE and Firefox. (And yes I will fix the other label issues people pointed out for accessibility later today) Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Thierry Koblentz wrote: On Behalf Of Jason Gray Michael Your current code is label for=commentsComments:/label textarea name=comments rows=6 cols=40 /textarea It should be label for=commentsComments:/label textarea name=comments rows=6 cols=40/textarea The value of the for attribute should match an *id* *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] form problem
For some reason my text field http://terrorfreeamerica.us/christians.html insists on putting the cursor in the middle of the field. I've tried setting the fieid and the form to test:align :center thinking that would resolve the issue and it didn't. Any ideas thanks -- Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] form problem
I fixed that and the problem is still occurring. Also put the = in after the for Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Jason Gray wrote: Could be caused by the spacing between your opening textarea and the closing textarea tags Try textarea name=comments rows=6 cols=40/textarea Also in your label tags your for attributes should have = eg label for=email Regards Jason Gray Webwidget Pty Ltd ABN 27 122 916 134 | PO Box 2633 Taren Point NSW 2229 | Ph 0423 038 000 | Fax 02 8205 8330 www.webwidget.com.au Please consider our environment before printing this email. The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy this message, delete any copies held on your systems and notify the sender immediately. You should not retain, copy or use this email for any purpose, nor disclose all or any part of its content to any other person. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Horowitz Sent: Monday, 25 February 2008 6:41 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] form problem For some reason my text field http://terrorfreeamerica.us/christians.html insists on putting the cursor in the middle of the field. I've tried setting the fieid and the form to test:align :center thinking that would resolve the issue and it didn't. Any ideas thanks *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Discussion on rules for posting was Hello OT
While I agree people should check issues elsewhere beforehand as they should before using any list, tech forum etc for help. However list guidelines do state The mail list covers any topic associated with web standards including Implementing Web Standards - eg: technologies such as HTML, XHTML, CSS, DOM, UAAG, RDF, XML, JavaScript and EcmaScript Assistance with aspects of web standards such as site checking, layout issues etc. We encourage people to ask for help on the list. One of the primary goals of this group is to help members move towards building sites that are standards compliant, so we do not want to stop members posting questions of this nature to the list - in fact, we encourage it! So it isn't off base for people learning to implement web standards to have questions on how to do so. What we should do is follow the following rule beforehand 1. Set up a sample page that shows just the problem in action. 2. Validate your HTML code 3. Validate your CSS code 4. Test the page on a range of browsers - as many as you can get access to. 5. Post your problem to the list with the following info: * a link to the sample url * a link to the css file if it is separate * a short, clear explanation of the problem * a list of browsers and how they render the problem http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Matt Fellows wrote: With no offense intended to the list moderators, I feel the usefulness of this mailing list is diminishing due to an increase in irrelevant and lazy postings. The majority of people on this list are genuine web developers, who care for the future of the Web and the place Web Standards has in it. But there seems to be a small number of people who think they can simply post their problems to this list without consulting any other reference. Basic CSS problems, PHP syntax and even spam help are just a sample of some of these questions that can, and should be either found quickly by a number of popular resources or even a quick search in Google. Instead, they lazily exploit the goodwill of many in this list who are kind enough to visit their site and fix their problems. With the number of these increasing there is no wonder why people are leaving this list (and publicly doing so). Out on a limb here - does anybody else feel the same? If so, do you have a suggestion as to how we can better the quality of the list? Matt On 2/15/08, *John Hancock* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please can this be closed? It's far off any standards related topic. Possibly the only thing I can see as a relevant part of the 'Web 2.0 movement' is the abstraction of the presentational information from data on a page, which isn't being discussed here. If posting an off-topic message, please at least mark it as such so the rest of us can hit the delete button without checking it first for relevant information! Kind regards, John Hancock *Identity* *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] *On Behalf Of *Joe Ortenzi *Sent:* Friday, 15 February 2008 6:32 PM *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org mailto:wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* Re: [WSG] hello That's art, Kat, design is different. And design is a significant part of the web. On Feb 12 2008, at 22:52, Katrina wrote: kevin mcmonagle wrote: yes its a buzzword mostly but from a design standpoint its also a genre. That's an interesting thought. Is Web 2.0 larger than the web itself? Has it become an art movement/period, in the same way as Modernism, Post-Modernism, Humanism, Impressionism, etc? Kat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.joiz.com http://www.joiz.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http
[WSG] repeat x and repeat y
I again thank everyone for all the help. Any good resources for repeat x and repeat y Also would love suggestions for new books to buy. -- Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Shouldn't margin be working
I guess my boxes are wrong. What you have is what I am looking for.
What I thought I was doing was setting up a
#menu box adjacent to a #content box adjacent to a #right_box. All
parallel. It appears the content box is actually going out to the
entire size of the site while #menu box and #right_box are in it.
What am I misunderstanding about setting up the box model correctly. (I
don't want to just steal your code but understand how to do it right for
the future)
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
David Laakso wrote:
Michael Horowitz wrote:
I've added some margin and padding to the #content div
#content {
margin-top: 0px;
margin-left: 5px;
padding-top: 0px;
padding-left: 5px;
clear: none;
float: none;
}
But it doesn't appear to have an affect. I've verified it validates
as CSS
Assuming the above is in reference to your uri
http://terrorfreeamerica.us/
Your CSS is doing as you have asked. Put a border around #content and
you will see it.
It is not exactly clear to me what you are after. But my guess is
you're looking for something that looks more like this?:
http://www.chelseacreekstudio.com/ca/cssd/temp05.html
Best,
~dL
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[WSG] PHP includes
If I am including a menu using the PHP include command but the actuual menu is an html list does the included file need to have its code including the css style sheet or will it use the style sheet of the page it is included to. Also is their a preference in web standards for using PHP includes or something like SSI? -- Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] making a menu bar hug the right
Sorry for the flurry of questions but I've traditionally done my sites with tables and am doing my first completely css site now http://terrorfreeamerica.us/ Just setting up the menu on the left and I'm wondering how to get my menu buttons to hug the left hand side of menu div. Currently its hugging the right. I thought setting the width to 98% would keep it virtually the same size of the entire div. -- Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] display differences firefox ie 7.0
I've noticed that my site is centered it ie 7.0 but left justified in firefox http://terrorfreeamerica.us/. What are the issues and workarounds to keep them in sync. In this case I would like it centered both ways but I would love to know how to do it either way. Thanks -- Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Styling forms
I've been looking at styling forms and I'm seeing some people mark them up as ordered lists and other using paragraphs. What are the arguments for the different markup types. -- Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy
I would assume any professional developer will test any application they currently support with IE 8 when it comes out. I'm sure I will get a lot of business from new clients who need their sites updated to support whatever changes MSFT makes. Lets face it how many older sites need to be updated because elements that used to work in HTML are being depreciated in new XHTML browsers. Eventually at some point I expect those depreciated elements to stop being supported by future version x of browsers. How many of us have developed websites with tables in the past that should be redeveloped using div and css? Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Christian Snodgrass wrote: Chris Knowles wrote: Christian Snodgrass wrote: The biggest problem is the fact that if they don't have it be the opt-in option, that any older sites that used all of the hacks that made it work in IE6 and IE7 won't work in IE8. That probably includes even a lot of your own sites. Beyond that (since they could just make it ignore those types of hacks which wouldn't be difficult), is pages even older, and especially those web-based applications that relied on those hacks. It's the lesser of two evils, but it's still a huge pain. If you have a web-based application that will break in IE8, then whats so wrong with adding an HTTP header or a meta tag to say 'use IE7' ? What's so wrong with adding a tag that says use IE8? Plus, not everyone will know this. I doubt that when you open up IE8 there will be this popup that says Hello, if you are a web developer, please add a meta tag to any existing documents that you have created that rely on the rendering prior to IE8, because they will now fail. Existing software is more difficult to update then to slightly modify the way you create new software. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Test Plans
I'd love to see the stuff online. I think this is a very important part of web standards. QA should not be an afterthought but an integral part of the process. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Steve Green wrote: When you talk about 'standard' or 'government' test plans, what you mean is documentation as per IEE 829. Unfortunately this is an appallingly bad standard that guarantees inefficient and ineffective testing. However, this is what most test consultants peddle because it's easy to teach and some people are impressed by huge piles of test scripts (you might have guessed I'm not). It also maximises consultants' incomes because everything takes much longer than it needs to. I have run an outsource testing company for 6 years and we never use this type of documentation. I have many other resources that may be useful so I'll contact you off-list. Steve Green www.labscape.co.uk http://www.labscape.co.uk *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *James Jeffery *Sent:* 15 January 2008 12:09 *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* [WSG] Test Plans Hi All. Im not familiar with test plans for Websites, i have my own way of running tests that usually run of what the client wants i.e: Is the header 320px heigh? and does it expand when the font size is incremented?. I have to do an in depth test plan for an assignment, which i would also use for future jobs. Has anyone got any good resources on test plans? I'd like to see a few government ones if possible and some 'standard' or 'defacto' plans if possible. Im not sure if this topic borderlines on being removed, but i feel its standards related and most the users here work or have worked for companies that use them or they use themselves so i felt i'd get a better response. Cheers guys. I await your replies and thanks for your time. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] standards-compliant designers and shoddy work poor QA
The answer is very simple. 100% of potential users of a website have IE on their computer. Every user smart enough to know there are non IE browsers are smart enough to know sometimes you have to switch back to IE to make the website work. The question becomes from a business perspective is the additional funds needed to train their developers to code in a compliants standard way, hire a proper qa department etc worth it. I've seen worse issues. Had someone ask me to review their new website and the first problem I found is you can't submit their contact form because the javascript is looking for a field that isn't there. Obvsiously the web design firm they hired dropped in a javascript for to check fields and was so incompetent they didn't customize it for this customer. The customer on the other hand didn't bother to check if their form submitted or go through it before paying them. Then there is the website I went to where you had to pay to read the authors short stories. Or you could enter user id test password test and enter the password protected site and read all the stories for free. Great web design firm he hired. QA has always been the area most software companies fail on. The QA guy is the mean person who tells you you screwed up. The last time I worked for someone they had a policy not to release a new version of their software when it had outstanding show stopper issues. So the CIO solved the problem by ordering QA to downgrade Show Stopper issues to a lower category of problem so he could send out the next release and sell more software to customers. Solving the actual problem was beyond them of course but if you downgraded it he solved the issue. I was not popular for suggesting this was not a good QA practice. But heck I was just the implementation specialist who had to deal with the customer when the software didn't work as promised. Shoddy work is nothing new. It will end when it impacts customers to the point it costs people business. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Viable Design wrote: There is blame to go around, for sure. I had an accessibility issue just this morning, while trying to find out about filing an insurance claim on my husband's car (which someone ran into in the middle of the night ... and took off). In Firefox, my browser of choice, the text on the page I needed was overlapping, and many of the links were not clickable. I switched to IE, and the page was totally fine; everything was in perfect working order. I couldn't help but check the source code, and of course, it was designed using tables. There were 187 errors, according to the W3C validation service. I e-mailed the company and received a quick reply that they had recently discovered an error that was preventing a small number of customers from accessing their claim information. Pretty generic, as expected. The company is customer-service based, according to its policies and my experience, so why would the powers that be within it not choose to make its Web site accessible to all? It's not like they don't have the money to make it happen. I propose that most people would choose not to inform them of the difficulties they have in the first place. It reminds me of the days (long ago!) when I was a waitress. Most of the customers who had a bad experience due to the food or the service (from other waitresses, of course!) wouldn't complain or explain; they'd merely pay their bills and leave, never to return, intent on informing everyone they knew about that awful restaurant. And then I think about how many times I personally have chosen to just let bad experiences go in fast-food restaurants, convenience stores, gas stations. The girl who jerked my money out of my hand with a scowl on her face and no thank-you. The guy who took five minutes to wait on me because he was too busy on his cell phone. I have gone to the manager sometimes, but most of the time, I just consider it too much hassle and let it go. The same is surely true of Internet experiences, I propose, at an exponentially greater rate of occurrence. The next page is just a click away. If it's a page that must be accessed, however, as in my insurance experience this morning, it's a different story, of course. But most of the time, I personally simply leave the site and make a note of what not to do. I'm self-taught. I sorted through HTML as a sort of grief therapy when I'd lost my baby (and almost gone with him) in 1999 and was out of work for months. I began learning about CSS more than three years ago and only learned about accessibility/Web standards within the last couple of years. But I'm diligently learning as much as I can (with three kids and a full-time teaching job that invariably comes home with me most days...). I'm going to make it my personal goal to begin contacting the people who
Re: [WSG] strange css behavior
Parse error is corrected. Can't change the html however in typepad so if that is the cause of the problem I'm stuck with it. I can only add new css at the bottom of the css page. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 David Laakso wrote: Michael Horowitz wrote: People may remember I'm working on an issue where when I click on one link on my site http://theatomicconservative.typepad.com/ other links such as Subscribe to this blogs feed turn red as if they were visited. Doing more testing I started changing the page without clicking on the link (ie putting the address directly in the browser) and the problem still occurs. I'm wondering if this gives anyone an idea what I should look at. Correct the parse error on li a:hover to validate the CSS. And comment out or delete this ul class=module-list/ul to validate the markup. Then see if it does whatever it is that it is supposed to do. Best, ~dL *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] strange css behavior
Everything works fine in Safari for Windows (don't own a Mac) The issue only occurs in IE 7 where changing pages will change the subscribe to this blog red as if it were visited when it hasn't Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Tony Crockford wrote: On 18 Dec 2007, at 23:32, Michael Horowitz wrote: People may remember I'm working on an issue where when I click on one link on my site http://theatomicconservative.typepad.com/ other links such as Subscribe to this blogs feed turn red as if they were visited. Doing more testing I started changing the page without clicking on the link (ie putting the address directly in the browser) and the problem still occurs. I'm wondering if this gives anyone an idea what I should look at. what browser are you using for testing? all the links i've visited are red in Safari ? you know you need to clear your cache for the links to revert to *unvisited* before you can test this behaviour, and you know that the order for decalring the link states is crucial too? perhaps the issue is related to your multiple declaration of link state I assumeyou upgraded to Pro Level so you can properly customise the CSS? why not look at an open source blog solution and some cheap web hosting, you're making life difficult for yourself trying to bend something to a shape it's not designed for! ;o) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] strange css behavior
So this will be a universal issue RSS in IE 7?
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
Kepler Gelotte wrote:
Hi Michael,
The problem appears to be that Internet Explorer gets confused by the link
being also referenced in the head section with the link tag. I think it
is assuming it has read the contents of the link (which it doesn't because I
traced HTTP requests). A simple test shows that this is the case. Copy the
HTML below into a file and clear your history in IE. When you first open the
page all links are blue. Refreshing the page turns the RSS links red.
!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd;
html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; dir=ltr
head
meta http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=UTF-8 /
titletest page/title
link rel=alternate type=application/atom+xml title=Posts on
'The Atomic Conservative' (Atom)
href=http://theatomicconservative.typepad.com/my_weblog/atom.xml; /
link rel=alternate type=application/rss+xml title=Posts on
'The Atomic Conservative' (RSS 1.0)
href=http://theatomicconservative.typepad.com/my_weblog/index.rdf; /
link rel=alternate type=application/rss+xml title=Posts on
'The Atomic Conservative' (RSS 2.0)
href=http://theatomicconservative.typepad.com/my_weblog/rss.xml; /
style type=text/css
a:link
{
color: #00F;
}
a:visited
{
color: #F00;
}
a:hover
{
color: #FF0;
}
a:active
{
color: #0FF;
}
/style
/head
body
div id=wrapper
pRegular Link: a
href=http://www.google.com;Google/a/p
pRSS Link: a
href=http://theatomicconservative.typepad.com/my_weblog/index.rdf;Atomic
Feed/a/p
pXML RSS Link: a
href=http://theatomicconservative.typepad.com/my_weblog/atom.xml;Atomic
XML Feed/a/p
/div
/body
/html
If you comment out the link for the feeds, they no longer show as visited
when you refresh the page. I suggest using an icon for the RSS feed instead
of the test link.
Regards,
Kepler
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Michael Horowitz
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 6:32 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] strange css behavior
People may remember I'm working on an issue where when I click on one
link on my site http://theatomicconservative.typepad.com/ other links
such as Subscribe to this blogs feed turn red as if they were visited.
Doing more testing I started changing the page without clicking on the
link (ie putting the address directly in the browser) and the problem
still occurs. I'm wondering if this gives anyone an idea what I should
look at.
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Re: [WSG] BBC in Beta
I pull up the site fine in IE. Opera looks ok with default settings. Text is a little high for the Read More link in blogs in Firefox Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 David Hucklesby wrote: On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 15:30:21 +, Paul McCann wrote: Heads up, the BBC has a new site in Beta. http://www.bbc.co.uk/home/beta Thoughts/praise/comments :) It looks like they are doing some (unsuccessful?) browser sniffing. I get a mostly black and white page in Opera, and a brightly colored page in Firefox. Both IE6 and IE7 say that the page cannot be displayed. There's some vertical overflow of boxes in Opera, which displays text 25% larger than Firefox due to my OS setting of 120 DPI. Don't laugh at the sunny weaather icons. Sunny really looks like that in the UK. ;) Cordially, David -- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] strange css behavior
People may remember I'm working on an issue where when I click on one link on my site http://theatomicconservative.typepad.com/ other links such as Subscribe to this blogs feed turn red as if they were visited. Doing more testing I started changing the page without clicking on the link (ie putting the address directly in the browser) and the problem still occurs. I'm wondering if this gives anyone an idea what I should look at. -- Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Strange CSS problem
At http://theatomicconservative.typepad.com/ when I click on any of my
links the text at Subscribe to this blog's feed turns red (which is the
color is should change to when clicked.
Here is what I believe is the relevant CSS
.module a:link { color: #1e77f5 }
.module a:visited { color: #d22539; }
.module a:hover { color: ##1e77f5; }
.module a:active { color: ##1e77f5; }
ul a{
display:block;
width: 98%;
line-height:1.4em;
background-color:#1c1c1b;
border: 1px solid yellow;
text-decoration: none;
text-align: center;
font-family: arial, lucida console, sans-serif
font-weight:900;
}
ul a:hover
{
background-color:#00;
}
--
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
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Re: [WSG] Strange CSS problem
Interesting as Andrew pointed out the issue does not occur is IE 6. I
have it only occur in IE 7 which would make it a new IE bug. The
frustrating part of typepad is I cannot delete the original css
declaration only overwrite it with the new one.
I'm also new to learning firebug, how does it show you this is
occurring. I've mainly found it useful for javascript debugging.
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
Simon Moss wrote:
Michael Horowitz wrote:
At http://theatomicconservative.typepad.com/ when I click on any of
my links the text at Subscribe to this blog's feed turns red (which
is the color is should change to when clicked.
.module a:link {styles.css (line 228)
color:#FF;
}
.module a:link {styles.css (line 730)
color:#1E77F5;
}
I don't know why IE7 should hark back to line 228 of the css after another link
has been clicked, but I think that might help to offer some explanation -
Firefox doesn't behave like this, I'm pleased to note.
(Incidentally the Firebug add-on for Firefox made spotting this
straightforward).
Simon
www.simonmoss.co.uk
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Re: [WSG] Opera files antitrust against MS: standards one part
Do you forcibly work for the government or do you offer your services in the free market? Does your company hire the worst developers and designers or the best it can afford at the salary it is willing to pay. In the free market their tends to be high and low quality products based on the price the buyer wishes to pay. You can buy a Lexus or you can by Kia. All transactions are between a willing buyer and seller. I'd love Microsoft to follow standards, indeed I'm dealing with a IE bug right now that will probably be based on some standards violation, the question becomes should government be involved. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Rob Crowther wrote: Michael Horowitz wrote: It would be a wonderful world. I can't imagine how government does anything but lower standards in these areas. Assuming you're being serious, I would love to hear your reasoning for this. With most things even remotely technical now happily existing in a market for lemons, the general effect of a free market seems to be to lower quality to the lowest level allowed by law. Where does the impetus for high standards come from in your imagined utopia? Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] CSS Image issue with buttons
Adding to my issues I put a image on the server that I want to show up
on my buttons but it isn't appearing. Here is how I added the CSS for that
The image is definitely
therehttp://theatomicconservative.typepad.com/images/atom.gif
/*define look of buttons*/
ul a{
display:block;
width: 98%;
line-height:1.4em;
background:#1c1c1b ;
border: 1px solid yellow url(images/atom.gif) no-repeat left bottom;
text-decoration: none;
text-align: center;
font-family: arial, lucida console, sans-serif;
font-weight:900;
}
ul a:hover
{
background:#00 url(images/atom.gif) no-repeat left bottom;
}
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
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Re: [WSG] Opera files antitrust against MS: standards one part
Look how Firefox has grown to 16% of the market. I think that shows how you are not correct. I also suspect that Open Office is going to start challenging Microsoft as well. Especially is MSFT succeeds with establishing good copy protection Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Michael Horowitz wrote: In the free market their tends to be high and low quality products based on the price the buyer wishes to pay. You can buy a Lexus or you can by Kia. All transactions are between a willing buyer and seller. Only until you get to a situation of oligopoly or monopoly. Then, the quality of the product and its price often bear no relation. In that environment, products are not allowed to thrive on quality - even a remarkably better product can be squashed simply because of the stranglehold of the few or single dominant company/companies. Which, in the end, hurts the general consumer population as a whole, and can have ramifications that go far beyond just the market (politics, for instance). But hey...Atlas shrugged, and so do I, as this isn't the right list for this sort of discussion. I'm just amazed that, for once, this wasn't triggered by the topic of accessibility... P *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
