Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?
I've been working with he data generated by surveys, for quite a number of years and tip that I can give that applies in example is that a boolean question (aka Yes/No) is represented by 4 states, when asked in a web form, i.e. - no response was saved, eg form was served correctly, form was hacked to submit without a value, etc - form submitted, but no choice selected - yes - no The solution is to use 3 radio buttons with one of them titled as 'unselected' and with that radio hidden from visibility. As a bonus, it is also more 'accessible' than the 2-button case. Mathew Robertson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?
Agreed it does depend entirely on the situation and users. By universally implemented I wasn't being flippant, I meant to be saying that things have moved on, just the modified model of radio set use doesn't work everywhere. For some reason undefined/unset radio button sets get overlooked by users trying to complete a form fast than some other methods. Personally I try to reword/remodel to avoid uses of yes/no answers. If unsure run some user audience testing. If they hesitate longer at a yes/no then perhaps that is confusing for them. From a html/w3C standpoint I don't have an issue of course, my view was purely user experience. Regards, Steve On 8 Jun 2010, at 02:38, Ben Buchanan wrote: On 7 June 2010 14:58, Steve Gibbings st...@stevegibbings.co.uk wrote: I have a problem with that. Radio button sets should always have an option selected, there is no undefined selection. This makes sense when you remember where the radio button metaphor came from. However seems that doesn't get universally implemented. Technically correct, true. Would you recommend a checkbox instead, or some other option? In practice I think the usage of radio buttons has shifted to accommodate sets with no initial selection. In usability terms it's probably better than a dropdown for a yes/no; and some people do have some issues with the implied off state of checkboxes. Compare it with a paper form where you have two boxes and you tick or cross an option - there's no preselection. I guess it depends which paradigm is more likely to fit the scenario. cheers, Ben -- --- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?
lol, well yes but then that would be attempting to break the input device on real radios. Funnily we must be twins because as a kid I used to try to do that too. I broke so much stuff... On 8 Jun 2010, at 05:39, Lucien Stals wrote: And I seem to recall that the old radios on which the metaphor is based could be pushed half in. That would cause all buttons to pop out thus having *no* selection. Not saying that as a justification for having no selection in a radio group. Just pointing out that the metaphor wears a bit thin ;) Lucien. On 08/06/2010, at 11:38 AM, Ben Buchanan wrote: On 7 June 2010 14:58, Steve Gibbings st...@stevegibbings.co.uk wrote: I have a problem with that. Radio button sets should always have an option selected, there is no undefined selection. This makes sense when you remember where the radio button metaphor came from. However seems that doesn't get universally implemented. Technically correct, true. Would you recommend a checkbox instead, or some other option? In practice I think the usage of radio buttons has shifted to accommodate sets with no initial selection. In usability terms it's probably better than a dropdown for a yes/no; and some people do have some issues with the implied off state of checkboxes. Compare it with a paper form where you have two boxes and you tick or cross an option - there's no preselection. I guess it depends which paradigm is more likely to fit the scenario. cheers, Ben -- --- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?
Agreed it does depend entirely on the situation and users. By universally implemented I wasn't being flippant, I meant to be saying that things have moved on, just the modified model of radio set use doesn't work everywhere. For some reason undefined/unset radio button sets get overlooked by users trying to complete a form fast than some other methods. Personally I try to reword/remodel to avoid uses of yes/no answers. If unsure run some user audience testing. If they hesitate longer at a yes/no then perhaps that is confusing for them. From a html/w3C standpoint I don't have an issue of course, my view was purely user experience. On 8 Jun 2010, at 02:38, Ben Buchanan wrote: On 7 June 2010 14:58, Steve Gibbings st...@stevegibbings.co.uk wrote: I have a problem with that. Radio button sets should always have an option selected, there is no undefined selection. This makes sense when you remember where the radio button metaphor came from. However seems that doesn't get universally implemented. Technically correct, true. Would you recommend a checkbox instead, or some other option? In practice I think the usage of radio buttons has shifted to accommodate sets with no initial selection. In usability terms it's probably better than a dropdown for a yes/no; and some people do have some issues with the implied off state of checkboxes. Compare it with a paper form where you have two boxes and you tick or cross an option - there's no preselection. I guess it depends which paradigm is more likely to fit the scenario. cheers, Ben -- --- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?
On 7 June 2010 14:58, Steve Gibbings st...@stevegibbings.co.uk wrote: I have a problem with that. Radio button sets should always have an option selected, there is no undefined selection. This makes sense when you remember where the radio button metaphor came from. However seems that doesn't get universally implemented. Technically correct, true. Would you recommend a checkbox instead, or some other option? In practice I think the usage of radio buttons has shifted to accommodate sets with no initial selection. In usability terms it's probably better than a dropdown for a yes/no; and some people do have some issues with the implied off state of checkboxes. Compare it with a paper form where you have two boxes and you tick or cross an option - there's no preselection. I guess it depends which paradigm is more likely to fit the scenario. cheers, Ben -- --- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?
And I seem to recall that the old radios on which the metaphor is based could be pushed half in. That would cause all buttons to pop out thus having *no* selection. Not saying that as a justification for having no selection in a radio group. Just pointing out that the metaphor wears a bit thin ;) Lucien. On 08/06/2010, at 11:38 AM, Ben Buchanan wrote: On 7 June 2010 14:58, Steve Gibbings st...@stevegibbings.co.uk wrote: I have a problem with that. Radio button sets should always have an option selected, there is no undefined selection. This makes sense when you remember where the radio button metaphor came from. However seems that doesn't get universally implemented. Technically correct, true. Would you recommend a checkbox instead, or some other option? In practice I think the usage of radio buttons has shifted to accommodate sets with no initial selection. In usability terms it's probably better than a dropdown for a yes/no; and some people do have some issues with the implied off state of checkboxes. Compare it with a paper form where you have two boxes and you tick or cross an option - there's no preselection. I guess it depends which paradigm is more likely to fit the scenario. cheers, Ben -- --- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?
Lucien Stals wrote: And I seem to recall that the old radios on which the metaphor is based could be pushed half in. That would cause all buttons to pop out thus having *no* selection. Poor implementations don't define a design pattern. :-) -- Hassan Schroeder - has...@webtuitive.com webtuitive design === (+1) 408-621-3445 === http://webtuitive.com twitter: @hassan dream. code. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?
On 4 June 2010 12:29, nedlud ned...@gmail.com wrote: I have a web form I'm building and there is a simple yes/no question in it. I got to wondering what the best semantic mark up for this is? Does anyone have any good UI/UX suggestions? My three ideas were... Two radio buttons for yes and no... pDo you...?/p label for=ans-yesYes/labelinput type=radio name=ans id=ans-yes label for=ans-noNo/labelinput type=radio name=ans id=ans-no I go back to the fact radio buttons show mutually-exclusive options, which makes a very clear yes/no. If your question needs the user to actively specify a yes or no, it's a good solution. Checkboxes mean one response is given by omission, which is a less definitive interaction. Since radio buttons are one element short on their own, you need to wrap them in a fieldset and legend to essentially act like a label for the set of radio buttons. I also think the button should be on the left and the text on the right (in left-to-right languages), since a) that just seems the most common thing, and b) if you were to add a couple of divs to create rows, the buttons would line up neatly above each other. Which gives us... fieldsetlegendDo you...?/legend input type=radio name=ans id=ans-yeslabel for=ans-yesYes/label input type=radio name=ans id=ans-nolabel for=ans-noNo/label /fieldset Hope that helps... cheers, Ben -- --- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?
I have a problem with that. Radio button sets should always have an option selected, there is no undefined selection. This makes sense when you remember where the radio button metaphor came from. However seems that doesn't get universally implemented. On 7 Jun 2010, at 02:25, Ben Buchanan wrote: On 4 June 2010 12:29, nedlud ned...@gmail.com wrote: I have a web form I'm building and there is a simple yes/no question in it. I got to wondering what the best semantic mark up for this is? Does anyone have any good UI/UX suggestions? My three ideas were... Two radio buttons for yes and no... pDo you...?/p label for=ans-yesYes/labelinput type=radio name=ans id=ans-yes label for=ans-noNo/labelinput type=radio name=ans id=ans-no I go back to the fact radio buttons show mutually-exclusive options, which makes a very clear yes/no. If your question needs the user to actively specify a yes or no, it's a good solution. Checkboxes mean one response is given by omission, which is a less definitive interaction. Since radio buttons are one element short on their own, you need to wrap them in a fieldset and legend to essentially act like a label for the set of radio buttons. I also think the button should be on the left and the text on the right (in left-to-right languages), since a) that just seems the most common thing, and b) if you were to add a couple of divs to create rows, the buttons would line up neatly above each other. Which gives us... fieldsetlegendDo you...?/legend input type=radio name=ans id=ans-yeslabel for=ans-yesYes/label input type=radio name=ans id=ans-nolabel for=ans-noNo/label /fieldset Hope that helps... cheers, Ben -- --- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?
John, thank you for the book recommendation, I was waiting for someone to quote one, so I don't have to make a new thread :) Kind regards, Krystian In addition to my thoughts I had a look into the Robert Hoekman Jr book Designing the Obvious and in Chapter 16 about Simplifying Long Forms he cites an example that begins with a series of Yes/No propositions that given further consideration can be better addressed by better directed questions and ultimately checkboxes. If you have a Safari Books Online account you can access this book, or at the least here is a link to his presentation at Web Directions in 2008; http://www.webdirections.org/resources/robert-hoekman-jr/ which contains links to his book on Amazon and an introduction to his approach. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Krystian Szastok http://www.bozboz.co.uk http://www.searchoptimist.co.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Yes/No structure?
There is actually a fourth option, which is a pair of buttons, which is a good idea if both choices require an action, such as feeding on to a different form, or if this is the last action of the form. For me, the main thing to think about is 'negative responses' - with a radio button you get one answer by default, which may not be the correct response - if people don't understand a question they will often ignore it, (a negative response) so in your case you should either go with one of the free-choice options (ie not a radio button) or else make sure that you word it in such a way that people need to change the default if they understand that they do _not_ want an interpreter. If that wasn't clear, think about the difference between an opt-out tick-box, and an opt-in tick-box - on paper they are interchangeable, but legally speaking they are not. Regards, Mike From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of nedlud Sent: 04 June 2010 03:30 To: wsg Subject: [WSG] Yes/No structure? I have a web form I'm building and there is a simple yes/no question in it. I got to wondering what the best semantic mark up for this is? Does anyone have any good UI/UX suggestions? My three ideas were... Two radio buttons for yes and no... pDo you...?/p label for=ans-yesYes/labelinput type=radio name=ans id=ans-yes label for=ans-noNo/labelinput type=radio name=ans id=ans-no A single check box. A tick implies a yes answer while no tick implies no... pDo you...?/p input type=checkbox name=ans id=ans Or a selection list with a yes and a no answer... pDo you...?/p select name=ans id=ans option value=yesYes/option option value=noNo/option /select Which is the preferred way? Or can you suggest a better way? Lucien. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?
On 4/06/10 2:41 PM, nedlud wrote:
The full questions in the form is Do you require an interpreter?
This is followed by: If so, what language?
Personally, I would try this structure:
Do you require a translator?
o No
o Yes
[] Greek | {I require a Greek Translator written in greek}
[] Russian | { I require a Russian Translator written in Russian}
[] etc
[] Other [__ ]
and so on, obviously using the languages appropriate to your population
segment.
I wouldn't do anything clever with making the language part appear and
disappear when they select yes/no, as seeing the name of their language
in the form can help prompt them to check it.
Hope it helps
Lea
--
Lea de Groot
Elysian Systems
Brisbane, .au
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[WSG] Yes/No structure?
I have a web form I'm building and there is a simple yes/no question in it. I got to wondering what the best semantic mark up for this is? Does anyone have any good UI/UX suggestions? My three ideas were... Two radio buttons for yes and no... pDo you...?/p label for=ans-yesYes/labelinput type=radio name=ans id=ans-yes label for=ans-noNo/labelinput type=radio name=ans id=ans-no A single check box. A tick implies a yes answer while no tick implies no... pDo you...?/p input type=checkbox name=ans id=ans Or a selection list with a yes and a no answer... pDo you...?/p select name=ans id=ans option value=yesYes/option option value=noNo/option /select Which is the preferred way? Or can you suggest a better way? Lucien. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?
Hi Lucien, The first thing that occurs to me regarding the semantics of the action is what is the Yes/No proposition in regards to, and that this might provide a clearer notion as to what to do. By this what I mean is, in the first instance so far as semantic mark up is concerned it would appear that a radio button is exactly what you would use. Here it is a case of either on or off. Yes or no. However the first thing I thought of, and I suppose this is in more regards a UI/UX consideration is the design pattern we see with webmail clients and the Remember me check box. So returning to the first point, are you simply asking for a Yes/No action or like the Remember me function a call to action with an Option Yes or Option No result? In which case your question might be rephrased by improving the microcopy of your markup. Instead of Do you..? the semantics are improved by fixing the proposition, ie; Remember me for 2 weeks - tick on = Yes, un-ticked = No, or another example, rather than Would you like to receive our email newsletter? radio buttons Yes/No, checkbox pre-selected followed by Uncheck if you would not like to receive our email newsletter. In addition to my thoughts I had a look into the Robert Hoekman Jr book Designing the Obvious and in Chapter 16 about Simplifying Long Forms he cites an example that begins with a series of Yes/No propositions that given further consideration can be better addressed by better directed questions and ultimately checkboxes. If you have a Safari Books Online account you can access this book, or at the least here is a link to his presentation at Web Directions in 2008; http://www.webdirections.org/resources/robert-hoekman-jr/ which contains links to his book on Amazon and an introduction to his approach. But I'll try and quickly summarise it for you. Original form starts - Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision coverage..with Acme Insurance = Radio Button Yes/No. Second iteration - Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision coverage..with Acme Insurance = Radio Button Yes, then checkbox's for Medical, Dental, Vision - Radio Button No. Third iteration - Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision coverage..with Acme Insurance = checkbox's for Medical, Dental, Vision - implied is if you don't check any, you would of selected No. So to sum up, before it's a question of which is the best markup to use, what is the actual end result of this action and can it be handled a better way? Cheers, John Unsworth On 4 June 2010 12:29, nedlud ned...@gmail.com wrote: I have a web form I'm building and there is a simple yes/no question in it. I got to wondering what the best semantic mark up for this is? Does anyone have any good UI/UX suggestions? My three ideas were... Two radio buttons for yes and no... pDo you...?/p label for=ans-yesYes/labelinput type=radio name=ans id=ans-yes label for=ans-noNo/labelinput type=radio name=ans id=ans-no A single check box. A tick implies a yes answer while no tick implies no... pDo you...?/p input type=checkbox name=ans id=ans Or a selection list with a yes and a no answer... pDo you...?/p select name=ans id=ans option value=yesYes/option option value=noNo/option /select Which is the preferred way? Or can you suggest a better way? Lucien. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?
Hmm. I hadn't considered the wording of the actual question to be so important. But I can sure see your point. The full questions in the form is Do you require an interpreter? This is followed by: If so, what language? I am porting a paper based for onto the web, and the paper based version has explicit check boxes for yes and no. But it occurred to me that on the web, I could reduce the two check boxes down to one. Tick the box if you require an interpreter. Then dynamically insert the what language question if they answer yes. (Yes, an obvious problem with all this is that the form is all written in English. I guess the client is assuming an English speaker is helping the Non-English speaker with the form). I often look for the simplest way to represent thing, an in this case, a single check box can easily represent both the yes and no states (checked or not checked). But is this the best UX? Are people more comfortable with explicit yes/no choices? Even when it might be more verbose than absolutely necessary? Lucien. On 4 June 2010 13:29, John Unsworth john.unswo...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Lucien, The first thing that occurs to me regarding the semantics of the action is what is the Yes/No proposition in regards to, and that this might provide a clearer notion as to what to do. By this what I mean is, in the first instance so far as semantic mark up is concerned it would appear that a radio button is exactly what you would use. Here it is a case of either on or off. Yes or no. However the first thing I thought of, and I suppose this is in more regards a UI/UX consideration is the design pattern we see with webmail clients and the Remember me check box. So returning to the first point, are you simply asking for a Yes/No action or like the Remember me function a call to action with an Option Yes or Option No result? In which case your question might be rephrased by improving the microcopy of your markup. Instead of Do you..? the semantics are improved by fixing the proposition, ie; Remember me for 2 weeks - tick on = Yes, un-ticked = No, or another example, rather than Would you like to receive our email newsletter? radio buttons Yes/No, checkbox pre-selected followed by Uncheck if you would not like to receive our email newsletter. In addition to my thoughts I had a look into the Robert Hoekman Jr book Designing the Obvious and in Chapter 16 about Simplifying Long Forms he cites an example that begins with a series of Yes/No propositions that given further consideration can be better addressed by better directed questions and ultimately checkboxes. If you have a Safari Books Online account you can access this book, or at the least here is a link to his presentation at Web Directions in 2008; http://www.webdirections.org/resources/robert-hoekman-jr/ which contains links to his book on Amazon and an introduction to his approach. But I'll try and quickly summarise it for you. Original form starts - Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision coverage..with Acme Insurance = Radio Button Yes/No. Second iteration - Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision coverage..with Acme Insurance = Radio Button Yes, then checkbox's for Medical, Dental, Vision - Radio Button No. Third iteration - Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision coverage..with Acme Insurance = checkbox's for Medical, Dental, Vision - implied is if you don't check any, you would of selected No. So to sum up, before it's a question of which is the best markup to use, what is the actual end result of this action and can it be handled a better way? Cheers, John Unsworth On 4 June 2010 12:29, nedlud ned...@gmail.com wrote: I have a web form I'm building and there is a simple yes/no question in it. I got to wondering what the best semantic mark up for this is? Does anyone have any good UI/UX suggestions? My three ideas were... Two radio buttons for yes and no... pDo you...?/p label for=ans-yesYes/labelinput type=radio name=ans id=ans-yes label for=ans-noNo/labelinput type=radio name=ans id=ans-no A single check box. A tick implies a yes answer while no tick implies no... pDo you...?/p input type=checkbox name=ans id=ans Or a selection list with a yes and a no answer... pDo you...?/p select name=ans id=ans option value=yesYes/option option value=noNo/option /select Which is the preferred way? Or can you suggest a better way? Lucien. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe:
Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?
Hi Lucien, In my opinion, this is the best structure for yes/no options: pDo you...?/p labelinput type=radio name=ans value=yes Yes/label labelinput type=radio name=ans value=no No/label Cheers, Greg On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 11:41 PM, nedlud ned...@gmail.com wrote: Hmm. I hadn't considered the wording of the actual question to be so important. But I can sure see your point. The full questions in the form is Do you require an interpreter? This is followed by: If so, what language? I am porting a paper based for onto the web, and the paper based version has explicit check boxes for yes and no. But it occurred to me that on the web, I could reduce the two check boxes down to one. Tick the box if you require an interpreter. Then dynamically insert the what language question if they answer yes. (Yes, an obvious problem with all this is that the form is all written in English. I guess the client is assuming an English speaker is helping the Non-English speaker with the form). I often look for the simplest way to represent thing, an in this case, a single check box can easily represent both the yes and no states (checked or not checked). But is this the best UX? Are people more comfortable with explicit yes/no choices? Even when it might be more verbose than absolutely necessary? Lucien. On 4 June 2010 13:29, John Unsworth john.unswo...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Lucien, The first thing that occurs to me regarding the semantics of the action is what is the Yes/No proposition in regards to, and that this might provide a clearer notion as to what to do. By this what I mean is, in the first instance so far as semantic mark up is concerned it would appear that a radio button is exactly what you would use. Here it is a case of either on or off. Yes or no. However the first thing I thought of, and I suppose this is in more regards a UI/UX consideration is the design pattern we see with webmail clients and the Remember me check box. So returning to the first point, are you simply asking for a Yes/No action or like the Remember me function a call to action with an Option Yes or Option No result? In which case your question might be rephrased by improving the microcopy of your markup. Instead of Do you..? the semantics are improved by fixing the proposition, ie; Remember me for 2 weeks - tick on = Yes, un-ticked = No, or another example, rather than Would you like to receive our email newsletter? radio buttons Yes/No, checkbox pre-selected followed by Uncheck if you would not like to receive our email newsletter. In addition to my thoughts I had a look into the Robert Hoekman Jr book Designing the Obvious and in Chapter 16 about Simplifying Long Forms he cites an example that begins with a series of Yes/No propositions that given further consideration can be better addressed by better directed questions and ultimately checkboxes. If you have a Safari Books Online account you can access this book, or at the least here is a link to his presentation at Web Directions in 2008; http://www.webdirections.org/resources/robert-hoekman-jr/ which contains links to his book on Amazon and an introduction to his approach. But I'll try and quickly summarise it for you. Original form starts - Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision coverage..with Acme Insurance = Radio Button Yes/No. Second iteration - Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision coverage..with Acme Insurance = Radio Button Yes, then checkbox's for Medical, Dental, Vision - Radio Button No. Third iteration - Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision coverage..with Acme Insurance = checkbox's for Medical, Dental, Vision - implied is if you don't check any, you would of selected No. So to sum up, before it's a question of which is the best markup to use, what is the actual end result of this action and can it be handled a better way? Cheers, John Unsworth On 4 June 2010 12:29, nedlud ned...@gmail.com wrote: I have a web form I'm building and there is a simple yes/no question in it. I got to wondering what the best semantic mark up for this is? Does anyone have any good UI/UX suggestions? My three ideas were... Two radio buttons for yes and no... pDo you...?/p label for=ans-yesYes/labelinput type=radio name=ans id=ans-yes label for=ans-noNo/labelinput type=radio name=ans id=ans-no A single check box. A tick implies a yes answer while no tick implies no... pDo you...?/p input type=checkbox name=ans id=ans Or a selection list with a yes and a no answer... pDo you...?/p select name=ans id=ans option value=yesYes/option option value=noNo/option /select Which is the preferred way? Or can you suggest a better way? Lucien. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?
Lucien, Interestingly the Robert Hoekman Jr example I cited started originally as a paper form. In his write up when the form was first put up online before he came along it ran to page after page, resulting in people never completing it! In your example the first thing that strikes me, but this could be a can of worms (based on your observation about asking a non-English speaker to advise What language? when they might not be able to understand even that) is either links in the available languages to the same form in those languages, or at least to a page in the selected language with information about what to do next - even though that might mean calling a help line instead, or lastly the form begins with say language Flag Icons and if someone chooses anything other than English off to the alternate page or form. That action becomes your Yes or No scenario. There was a visitor from the W3C who spoke to the WSG in Melbourne some time ago now called Richard Ishida who is all about internationalisation on the web. More links; http://rishida.net/ Cheers, John Unsworth On 4 June 2010 14:41, nedlud ned...@gmail.com wrote: Hmm. I hadn't considered the wording of the actual question to be so important. But I can sure see your point. The full questions in the form is Do you require an interpreter? This is followed by: If so, what language? I am porting a paper based for onto the web, and the paper based version has explicit check boxes for yes and no. But it occurred to me that on the web, I could reduce the two check boxes down to one. Tick the box if you require an interpreter. Then dynamically insert the what language question if they answer yes. (Yes, an obvious problem with all this is that the form is all written in English. I guess the client is assuming an English speaker is helping the Non-English speaker with the form). I often look for the simplest way to represent thing, an in this case, a single check box can easily represent both the yes and no states (checked or not checked). But is this the best UX? Are people more comfortable with explicit yes/no choices? Even when it might be more verbose than absolutely necessary? Lucien. On 4 June 2010 13:29, John Unsworth john.unswo...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Lucien, The first thing that occurs to me regarding the semantics of the action is what is the Yes/No proposition in regards to, and that this might provide a clearer notion as to what to do. By this what I mean is, in the first instance so far as semantic mark up is concerned it would appear that a radio button is exactly what you would use. Here it is a case of either on or off. Yes or no. However the first thing I thought of, and I suppose this is in more regards a UI/UX consideration is the design pattern we see with webmail clients and the Remember me check box. So returning to the first point, are you simply asking for a Yes/No action or like the Remember me function a call to action with an Option Yes or Option No result? In which case your question might be rephrased by improving the microcopy of your markup. Instead of Do you..? the semantics are improved by fixing the proposition, ie; Remember me for 2 weeks - tick on = Yes, un-ticked = No, or another example, rather than Would you like to receive our email newsletter? radio buttons Yes/No, checkbox pre-selected followed by Uncheck if you would not like to receive our email newsletter. In addition to my thoughts I had a look into the Robert Hoekman Jr book Designing the Obvious and in Chapter 16 about Simplifying Long Forms he cites an example that begins with a series of Yes/No propositions that given further consideration can be better addressed by better directed questions and ultimately checkboxes. If you have a Safari Books Online account you can access this book, or at the least here is a link to his presentation at Web Directions in 2008; http://www.webdirections.org/resources/robert-hoekman-jr/ which contains links to his book on Amazon and an introduction to his approach. But I'll try and quickly summarise it for you. Original form starts - Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision coverage..with Acme Insurance = Radio Button Yes/No. Second iteration - Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision coverage..with Acme Insurance = Radio Button Yes, then checkbox's for Medical, Dental, Vision - Radio Button No. Third iteration - Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision coverage..with Acme Insurance = checkbox's for Medical, Dental, Vision - implied is if you don't check any, you would of selected No. So to sum up, before it's a question of which is the best markup to use, what is the actual end result of this action and can it be handled a better way? Cheers, John Unsworth On 4 June 2010 12:29, nedlud ned...@gmail.com wrote: I have a web form I'm building and there is a simple yes/no question in it. I got to wondering what the best
