Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms
Hi, I recommend this publication <http://www.rosenfeldmedia.com/books/webforms/ >. It just arrived from Amazon today, and is very informative. C On Aug 19, 2009, at 1:42 PM, Erickson, Kevin (DOE) wrote: FYI- I did replace align="right" & align="center" with CSS styling. -Original Message- From: Erickson, Kevin (DOE) Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 4:33 PM To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org' Subject: RE: [WSG] Accessible Forms I have two simple forms. Which is better?: http://www.doedev.vi.virginia.gov/z_testing_area/kevin/form_mail_vi/form _mailer4.shtml Code: First Name: A value is required. Last Name: A value is required. Email Address: A value is required.class="textfieldInvalidFormatMsg">Invalid format. Comments: AND http://www.doedev.vi.virginia.gov/z_testing_area/kevin/form_mail_vi/form _mailer6.shtml Code: *Required information Form Mailer *First Name:td> A value is required. *Last Name:td> A value is required. *Email Address: A value is required.Invalid format. Comments: -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 4:10 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms On 19/08/2009 20:04, David Dorward wrote: On 19 Aug 2009, at 19:35, Tom Livingston wrote: On a slightly related topic, I have wrapped inputs inside of labels for browser compatibility for the label clickability/focus issue (based on some research some time ago), but have just read for the first time recently, that this is not a good idea. Any thoughts? It isn't really a bad idea. It isn't as well supported as using the for attribute, so you should use that as well. Beyond that it is a matter of person taste. Well, I haven't personally verified this, but there are apparently some interoperability drawbacks to nesting inside labels even when you also use "for" and "id", i.e. Name: See: http://green-beast.com/blog/?p=254 More generally, folks, see W3C's Web Accessibility Initiative's advice, which includes some reports about poor support for implicit labels: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG-TECHS/H44.html -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms
Here are some best practices examples. The encapsulation method has some side effects that any content in text form controls becomes part of the label, which can be confusing to speech users. http://html.cita.illinois.edu/nav/form Jon On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 2:04 PM, David Dorward wrote: > > On 19 Aug 2009, at 19:35, Tom Livingston wrote: > >> On a slightly related topic, I have wrapped inputs inside of labels >> for browser compatibility for the label clickability/focus issue >> (based on some research some time ago), but have just read for the >> first time recently, that this is not a good idea. Any thoughts? > > > It isn't really a bad idea. It isn't as well supported as using the for > attribute, so you should use that as well. Beyond that it is a matter of > person taste. I find having the inputs outside the labels provides for more > flexible styling options, YMMV. > > -- > David Dorward > http://dorward.me.uk > > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org > *** > > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Accessible Forms
FYI- I did replace align="right" & align="center" with CSS styling. -Original Message- From: Erickson, Kevin (DOE) Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 4:33 PM To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org' Subject: RE: [WSG] Accessible Forms I have two simple forms. Which is better?: http://www.doedev.vi.virginia.gov/z_testing_area/kevin/form_mail_vi/form _mailer4.shtml Code: First Name: A value is required. Last Name: A value is required. Email Address: A value is required.Invalid format. Comments: AND http://www.doedev.vi.virginia.gov/z_testing_area/kevin/form_mail_vi/form _mailer6.shtml Code: *Required information Form Mailer *First Name: A value is required. *Last Name: A value is required. *Email Address: A value is required.Invalid format. Comments: -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 4:10 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms On 19/08/2009 20:04, David Dorward wrote: > > On 19 Aug 2009, at 19:35, Tom Livingston wrote: > >> On a slightly related topic, I have wrapped inputs inside of labels >> for browser compatibility for the label clickability/focus issue >> (based on some research some time ago), but have just read for the >> first time recently, that this is not a good idea. Any thoughts? > > > It isn't really a bad idea. It isn't as well supported as using the > for attribute, so you should use that as well. Beyond that it is a > matter of person taste. Well, I haven't personally verified this, but there are apparently some interoperability drawbacks to nesting inside labels even when you also use "for" and "id", i.e. Name: See: http://green-beast.com/blog/?p=254 More generally, folks, see W3C's Web Accessibility Initiative's advice, which includes some reports about poor support for implicit labels: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG-TECHS/H44.html -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Accessible Forms
FYI- I did replace align="right" & align="center" with CSS styling. -Original Message- From: Erickson, Kevin (DOE) Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 4:33 PM To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org' Subject: RE: [WSG] Accessible Forms I have two simple forms. Which is better?: http://www.doedev.vi.virginia.gov/z_testing_area/kevin/form_mail_vi/form _mailer4.shtml Code: First Name: A value is required. Last Name: A value is required. Email Address: A value is required.Invalid format. Comments: AND http://www.doedev.vi.virginia.gov/z_testing_area/kevin/form_mail_vi/form _mailer6.shtml Code: *Required information Form Mailer *First Name: A value is required. *Last Name: A value is required. *Email Address: A value is required.Invalid format. Comments: -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 4:10 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms On 19/08/2009 20:04, David Dorward wrote: > > On 19 Aug 2009, at 19:35, Tom Livingston wrote: > >> On a slightly related topic, I have wrapped inputs inside of labels >> for browser compatibility for the label clickability/focus issue >> (based on some research some time ago), but have just read for the >> first time recently, that this is not a good idea. Any thoughts? > > > It isn't really a bad idea. It isn't as well supported as using the > for attribute, so you should use that as well. Beyond that it is a > matter of person taste. Well, I haven't personally verified this, but there are apparently some interoperability drawbacks to nesting inside labels even when you also use "for" and "id", i.e. Name: See: http://green-beast.com/blog/?p=254 More generally, folks, see W3C's Web Accessibility Initiative's advice, which includes some reports about poor support for implicit labels: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG-TECHS/H44.html -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Accessible Forms
I have two simple forms. Which is better?: http://www.doedev.vi.virginia.gov/z_testing_area/kevin/form_mail_vi/form _mailer4.shtml Code: First Name: A value is required. Last Name: A value is required. Email Address: A value is required.Invalid format. Comments: AND http://www.doedev.vi.virginia.gov/z_testing_area/kevin/form_mail_vi/form _mailer6.shtml Code: *Required information Form Mailer *First Name: A value is required. *Last Name: A value is required. *Email Address: A value is required.Invalid format. Comments: -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 4:10 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms On 19/08/2009 20:04, David Dorward wrote: > > On 19 Aug 2009, at 19:35, Tom Livingston wrote: > >> On a slightly related topic, I have wrapped inputs inside of labels >> for browser compatibility for the label clickability/focus issue >> (based on some research some time ago), but have just read for the >> first time recently, that this is not a good idea. Any thoughts? > > > It isn't really a bad idea. It isn't as well supported as using the > for attribute, so you should use that as well. Beyond that it is a > matter of person taste. Well, I haven't personally verified this, but there are apparently some interoperability drawbacks to nesting inside labels even when you also use "for" and "id", i.e. Name: See: http://green-beast.com/blog/?p=254 More generally, folks, see W3C's Web Accessibility Initiative's advice, which includes some reports about poor support for implicit labels: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG-TECHS/H44.html -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms
Good question! Well, if IE6 was the reason for nesting to get clickability to work, then to heck with that. I just wanna know the best way, without the span to control the label text, to get label text NEXT TO the input, with nice even spacing and flexible control. On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Erickson, Kevin (DOE) wrote: > Wow! So what is the best practice??? > > -Original Message- > From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] > On Behalf Of Steve Green > Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 3:59 PM > To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org > Subject: RE: [WSG] Accessible Forms -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms
All, The following article shed light on both mark-up and styling. <http://www.sitepoint.com/article/fancy-form-design-css/> It should help. C, On Aug 19, 2009, at 1:11 PM, Erickson, Kevin (DOE) wrote: Wow! So what is the best practice??? -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Steve Green Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 3:59 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Accessible Forms -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Tom Livingston Sent: 19 August 2009 20:10 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms The reason I use this was because I found an easy way to style forms that included the broader compatibility for the clickability of labels for focus with the flexibility of layout with the inclusion of a span like: First Name I use this a lot for putting the label text next to the input, instead of stacking, and it gives easy control of this layout. Any info on the wrapping of inputs in a label being bad would be appreciated. We recently tested this exact construction (with the appropriate 'id' attribute in the element) and got surprising results with JAWS. It does not associate the text label with the form control even though they are associated in two ways (the 'for' and 'id' attributes and the fact that they are enclosed in the element. JAWS does associate the text label and form control if the element is not present but that limits your styling options. I have no idea why JAWS behaves this way. Steve Green Director Test Partners Ltd *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Accessible Forms
Wow! So what is the best practice??? -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Steve Green Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 3:59 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Accessible Forms -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Tom Livingston Sent: 19 August 2009 20:10 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms The reason I use this was because I found an easy way to style forms that included the broader compatibility for the clickability of labels for focus with the flexibility of layout with the inclusion of a span like: First Name I use this a lot for putting the label text next to the input, instead of stacking, and it gives easy control of this layout. Any info on the wrapping of inputs in a label being bad would be appreciated. We recently tested this exact construction (with the appropriate 'id' attribute in the element) and got surprising results with JAWS. It does not associate the text label with the form control even though they are associated in two ways (the 'for' and 'id' attributes and the fact that they are enclosed in the element. JAWS does associate the text label and form control if the element is not present but that limits your styling options. I have no idea why JAWS behaves this way. Steve Green Director Test Partners Ltd *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms
On 19/08/2009 20:04, David Dorward wrote: On 19 Aug 2009, at 19:35, Tom Livingston wrote: On a slightly related topic, I have wrapped inputs inside of labels for browser compatibility for the label clickability/focus issue (based on some research some time ago), but have just read for the first time recently, that this is not a good idea. Any thoughts? It isn't really a bad idea. It isn't as well supported as using the for attribute, so you should use that as well. Beyond that it is a matter of person taste. Well, I haven't personally verified this, but there are apparently some interoperability drawbacks to nesting inside labels even when you also use "for" and "id", i.e. Name: See: http://green-beast.com/blog/?p=254 More generally, folks, see W3C's Web Accessibility Initiative's advice, which includes some reports about poor support for implicit labels: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG-TECHS/H44.html -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Accessible Forms
-Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Tom Livingston Sent: 19 August 2009 20:10 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms The reason I use this was because I found an easy way to style forms that included the broader compatibility for the clickability of labels for focus with the flexibility of layout with the inclusion of a span like: First Name I use this a lot for putting the label text next to the input, instead of stacking, and it gives easy control of this layout. Any info on the wrapping of inputs in a label being bad would be appreciated. We recently tested this exact construction (with the appropriate 'id' attribute in the element) and got surprising results with JAWS. It does not associate the text label with the form control even though they are associated in two ways (the 'for' and 'id' attributes and the fact that they are enclosed in the element. JAWS does associate the text label and form control if the element is not present but that limits your styling options. I have no idea why JAWS behaves this way. Steve Green Director Test Partners Ltd *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms
For clarity, I submit this edit: First Name The for attribute matches the input ID. Always. On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Tom Livingston wrote: > The reason I use this was because I found an easy way to style forms > that included the broader compatibility for the clickability of labels > for focus with the flexibility of layout with the inclusion of a span > like: > > > First Name > > > > I use this a lot for putting the label text next to the input, instead > of stacking, and it gives easy control of this layout. > > Any info on the wrapping of inputs in a label being bad would be appreciated. > -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms
The reason I use this was because I found an easy way to style forms
that included the broader compatibility for the clickability of labels
for focus with the flexibility of layout with the inclusion of a span
like:
First Name
I use this a lot for putting the label text next to the input, instead
of stacking, and it gives easy control of this layout.
Any info on the wrapping of inputs in a label being bad would be appreciated.
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 2:59 PM, James O'Neill wrote:
> Hmmm... I do not really remember.
> I have used both together and separately at different times.
> By enclosing a form control with a label you will have a little more control
> over relative styling since you could something like this:
> label:hover input {outline:solidl}
> or have more precise placement and control over their location relative to
> each other:
> label {position:relative;}
> input {position:absolute; right:x;}
> I think there are some older browsers that like one method over the other.
> Just a few thoughts.
> Jim
>
--
Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic |
ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com
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Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms
Yeah. That's the issue that was brought up in the recent article I read. Apparently it's possible for some screen readers to get confused. I have not tested it. Was wondering if anyone else knew anymore info on this... On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 2:54 PM, Erickson, Kevin (DOE) wrote: > Have you tested it out with any screen readers? I would like to hear > about the results. > > Kevin > > -Original Message- > From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] > On Behalf Of Tom Livingston > Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 2:36 PM > To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org > Subject: Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms > > On a slightly related topic, I have wrapped inputs inside of labels for > browser compatibility for the label clickability/focus issue (based on > some research some time ago), but have just read for the first time > recently, that this is not a good idea. Any thoughts? > > -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms
On 19 Aug 2009, at 19:35, Tom Livingston wrote: On a slightly related topic, I have wrapped inputs inside of labels for browser compatibility for the label clickability/focus issue (based on some research some time ago), but have just read for the first time recently, that this is not a good idea. Any thoughts? It isn't really a bad idea. It isn't as well supported as using the for attribute, so you should use that as well. Beyond that it is a matter of person taste. I find having the inputs outside the labels provides for more flexible styling options, YMMV. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms
Hmmm... I do not really remember.
I have used both together and separately at different times.
By enclosing a form control with a label you will have a little more control
over relative styling since you could something like this:
label:hover input {outline:solidl}
or have more precise placement and control over their location relative to
each other:
label {position:relative;}
input {position:absolute; right:x;}
I think there are some older browsers that like one method over the other.
Just a few thoughts.
Jim
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 13:35, Tom Livingston wrote:
> On a slightly related topic, I have wrapped inputs inside of labels
> for browser compatibility for the label clickability/focus issue
> (based on some research some time ago), but have just read for the
> first time recently, that this is not a good idea. Any thoughts?
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RE: [WSG] Accessible Forms
Have you tested it out with any screen readers? I would like to hear about the results. Kevin -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Tom Livingston Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 2:36 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms On a slightly related topic, I have wrapped inputs inside of labels for browser compatibility for the label clickability/focus issue (based on some research some time ago), but have just read for the first time recently, that this is not a good idea. Any thoughts? On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 11:54 AM, James O'Neill wrote: > I think the ID's are required for the 'for' attribute to work for > labels, which enables the their clickability. When these labels are > clicked on they focus on the element whose ID is in the for attribute. >> Thank you, >> Kevin -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms
On a slightly related topic, I have wrapped inputs inside of labels for browser compatibility for the label clickability/focus issue (based on some research some time ago), but have just read for the first time recently, that this is not a good idea. Any thoughts? On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 11:54 AM, James O'Neill wrote: > I think the ID's are required for the 'for' attribute to work for labels, > which enables the their clickability. When these labels are clicked on they > focus on the element whose ID is in the for attribute. >> Thank you, >> Kevin -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms
Correct the ID's are required for the "for" attribute of the LABEL tag to work; but each ID must be unique. Best Regards, Nate Hanna On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 11:54 AM, James O'Neill wrote: > I think the ID's are required for the 'for' attribute to work for labels, > which enables the their clickability. When these labels are clicked on they > focus on the element whose ID is in the for attribute. > Enter you comments: > > Plus having ID's associated allows for more sophisticated form error > handling by having targets.. > > http://www.usability.com.au/resources/forms.cfm > http://www.communitymx.com/content/article.cfm?cid=02310 > > Jim > > On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 10:37, Erickson, Kevin (DOE) < > kevin.erick...@doe.virginia.gov> wrote: > >> Good day, >> >> When making a form in Dreamweaver it puts in id="same as name" in to every >> form item. When I take out all the id attributes the form still works. Why >> are the id attributes being put in by DW and, more importantly, is there an >> accessibility issue if I take them out? >> i.e. - >> >> >> vs. >> >> >> and >> >> >> vs. >> >> >> >> Thank you, >> Kevin >> > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org > *** > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms
I think the ID's are required for the 'for' attribute to work for labels, which enables the their clickability. When these labels are clicked on they focus on the element whose ID is in the for attribute. Enter you comments: Plus having ID's associated allows for more sophisticated form error handling by having targets.. http://www.usability.com.au/resources/forms.cfm http://www.communitymx.com/content/article.cfm?cid=02310 Jim On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 10:37, Erickson, Kevin (DOE) < kevin.erick...@doe.virginia.gov> wrote: > Good day, > > When making a form in Dreamweaver it puts in id="same as name" in to every > form item. When I take out all the id attributes the form still works. Why > are the id attributes being put in by DW and, more importantly, is there an > accessibility issue if I take them out? > i.e. - > > > vs. > > > and > > > vs. > > > > Thank you, > Kevin > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms
Those IDs can be used as "hooks" to allow CSS and JavaScript to interact with your individual form elements. --- Dale Cruse 617.640.0856 http://www.DaleJCruse.com On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Erickson, Kevin (DOE) < kevin.erick...@doe.virginia.gov> wrote: > Good day, > > When making a form in Dreamweaver it puts in id="same as name" in to every > form item. When I take out all the id attributes the form still works. Why > are the id attributes being put in by DW and, more importantly, is there an > accessibility issue if I take them out? > i.e. - > > > vs. > > > and > > > vs. > > > > Thank you, > Kevin > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org > *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms
On 19 Aug 2009, at 16:37, Erickson, Kevin (DOE) wrote: When making a form in Dreamweaver it puts in id="same as name" in to every form item. When I take out all the id attributes the form still works. Why are the id attributes being put in by DW and, more importantly, is there an accessibility issue if I take them out? In the case of radio groups — this is a problem, since an id must be unique per document while every element in a radio group must share a name. In the case of everything else… The id itself doesn't matter. What is important is that there is a associated with the form control. The best supported means of creating this association is with the for attribute. Dog If Dreamweaver is doing a good job, then it will be generating those labels for you, and removing the id attribute will break things. Otherwise, you should be adding the labels yourself. Either way, the id attributes are important. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)
Hi, No, that's not old fashioned, it's quite the opposite - it's designing for the future. It's designing for the wide range of user needs (rather than ones own graphic design sensibilities), which is still a new concept for many Web designers. Stuart On Sun, April 15, 2007 3:50 am, Katrina wrote: > Bojana Lalic wrote: >> Hi all >> >> >> >> Accverify fails my code because my input element does not contain the >> alt attribute or label. >> >> >> I don't want any text displayed before or after the query text input >> element. Should I wrap a label around the input element and then hide it >> using css? How do I get around this accessibility issue? >> >> > > I know I'm rather old-fashioned, by why not display text beforehand? > > Search for: > > > > It's explicit rather than implicit what is required in that field. I > regularly run into problems with forms because apparently everybody is > supposed to know what goes in them (I have to spend time figuring it out). > > But I suppose it's all down to what happens in your user testing :) > > Kat > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > > -- Stuart Foulstone. http://www.bigeasyweb.co.uk BigEasy Web Design 69 Flockton Court Rockingham Street Sheffield S1 4EB Tel. 07751 413451 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)
Bojana Lalic wrote: Hi all Accverify fails my code because my input element does not contain the alt attribute or label. I don't want any text displayed before or after the query text input element. Should I wrap a label around the input element and then hide it using css? How do I get around this accessibility issue? I know I'm rather old-fashioned, by why not display text beforehand? Search for: It's explicit rather than implicit what is required in that field. I regularly run into problems with forms because apparently everybody is supposed to know what goes in them (I have to spend time figuring it out). But I suppose it's all down to what happens in your user testing :) Kat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)
Mmm, not really the kind of label tags we were discussing. Stuart On Sat, April 14, 2007 9:08 am, Matthew Pennell wrote: > PS: Link for you: http://alistapart.com/articles/alphabet > > ;) > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** -- Stuart Foulstone. http://www.bigeasyweb.co.uk BigEasy Web Design 69 Flockton Court Rockingham Street Sheffield S1 4EB Tel. 07751 413451 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)
On 14 Apr 2007, at 07:25:29, Stuart Foulstone wrote: Hi, Doesn't look like valid code to me. Stuart http://www.w3.org/ TR/html4/strict.dtd"> blah Search NOW it's valid ;-) On Thu, April 12, 2007 2:07 pm, Nick Fitzsimons wrote: On 12 Apr 2007, at 13:34:06, Patrick Lauke wrote: I'm not making assumptions. I'm saying that, for sighted users, having a text input box with no visible label and a button that says "Search" immediately next to it is labelling enough. Surely Search would therefore keep everybody happy? (Or does it matter if focus is switched to the text field as the form is submitted - sounds like the kind of odd case that A Certain Browser might get unreasonably petulant about...) Regards, Nick. -- Nick Fitzsimons http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Stuart Foulstone. http://www.bigeasyweb.co.uk BigEasy Web Design 69 Flockton Court Rockingham Street Sheffield S1 4EB Tel. 07751 413451 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Nick Fitzsimons http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)
On 4/14/07, Stuart Foulstone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Doesn't look like valid code to me. Of course it's valid - the LABEL element can contain other inline elements, which BUTTON is. Matthew. PS: Link for you: http://alistapart.com/articles/alphabet ;) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)
Hi, Doesn't look like valid code to me. Stuart On Thu, April 12, 2007 2:07 pm, Nick Fitzsimons wrote: > On 12 Apr 2007, at 13:34:06, Patrick Lauke wrote: > >> I'm not making assumptions. I'm saying that, for sighted users, >> having a text input box with no visible label and a button that >> says "Search" immediately next to it is labelling enough. >> > > Surely > > > > Search > > > would therefore keep everybody happy? > > (Or does it matter if focus is switched to the text field as the form > is submitted - sounds like the kind of odd case that A Certain > Browser might get unreasonably petulant about...) > > Regards, > > Nick. > -- > Nick Fitzsimons > http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/ > > > > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > > -- Stuart Foulstone. http://www.bigeasyweb.co.uk BigEasy Web Design 69 Flockton Court Rockingham Street Sheffield S1 4EB Tel. 07751 413451 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)
> Nick Fitzsimons > Surely > > > > Search > > > would therefore keep everybody happy? Depends on AT support (whether or not a screenreader would actually be able to make sense of this construct and expose "Search" as explicit label for the search box when focussed on). Personally, I wouldn't have too many problems with this if support was consistent. P Patrick H. Lauke Web Editor External Relations Division University of Salford Room 113, Faraday House Salford, Greater Manchester M5 4WT UK T +44 (0) 161 295 4779 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.salford.ac.uk A GREATER MANCHESTER UNIVERSITY *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)
> Nick Fitzsimons > Surely > > > > Search > > > would therefore keep everybody happy? Depends on AT support (whether or not a screenreader would actually be able to make sense of this construct and expose "Search" as explicit label for the search box when focussed on). Personally, I wouldn't have too many problems with this if support was consistent. P Patrick H. Lauke Web Editor External Relations Division University of Salford Room 113, Faraday House Salford, Greater Manchester M5 4WT UK T +44 (0) 161 295 4779 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.salford.ac.uk A GREATER MANCHESTER UNIVERSITY *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)
On 12 Apr 2007, at 13:34:06, Patrick Lauke wrote: I'm not making assumptions. I'm saying that, for sighted users, having a text input box with no visible label and a button that says "Search" immediately next to it is labelling enough. Surely Search would therefore keep everybody happy? (Or does it matter if focus is switched to the text field as the form is submitted - sounds like the kind of odd case that A Certain Browser might get unreasonably petulant about...) Regards, Nick. -- Nick Fitzsimons http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)
> Stuart Foulstone > Sorry, I thought we were discussing labels for form input > boxes (not just > one-box input search forms). I was specifically talking about the type of form Bojana mentions in the thread starter. > However, generally speaking, making assumptions about > accessibility based > on the visual positioning of elements "in a logical common > place used by > most other sites" is not a good idea. I'm not making assumptions. I'm saying that, for sighted users, having a text input box with no visible label and a button that says "Search" immediately next to it is labelling enough. > Better to design to Web standards rather the standard of > other Websites. You seem to be getting a tad confused here. Am I talking about abandoning web standards? No. Is it worth looking at other websites for common design patterns that users are already familiar with? Yes. These aren't mutually exclusive. I'm saying that having a label element that is moved off-left via CSS - keeping it in the markup, but not visible - is an acceptable solution in this case, and doing so would not pose accessibility problems to other user groups (e.g. sighted users with motor impairments, provided the text input offers a large enough clickable area in itself). P Patrick H. Lauke Web Editor External Relations Division University of Salford Room 113, Faraday House Salford, Greater Manchester M5 4WT UK T +44 (0) 161 295 4779 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.salford.ac.uk A GREATER MANCHESTER UNIVERSITY *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)
Sorry, I thought we were discussing labels for form input boxes (not just one-box input search forms). However, generally speaking, making assumptions about accessibility based on the visual positioning of elements "in a logical common place used by most other sites" is not a good idea. Better to design to Web standards rather the standard of other Websites. Stuart On Thu, April 12, 2007 11:51 am, Patrick Lauke wrote: >> Stuart Foulstone > >> If you're only concerned about providing form accessibility for >> screenreaders, and no other disability, you could use the >> method below or >> a transparent.gif with appropriate alt-text would work too. > > Not necessarily just for screenreader accessibility. If the input itself > is large enough, there's no problem for users with motor problems. And > arguably, having a button immediately adjacent to the text input that says > "Search" (and, I'm assuming, having it in a logical common place used by > most other sites, like top-right) is enough visual labelling, so omitting > a visible label for that text input shouldn't really cause accessibility > issues for other audiences... > > P > > Patrick H. Lauke > Web Editor > External Relations Division > University of Salford > Room 113, Faraday House > Salford, Greater Manchester > M5 4WT > UK > > T +44 (0) 161 295 4779 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > www.salford.ac.uk > > A GREATER MANCHESTER UNIVERSITY > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > > -- Stuart Foulstone. http://www.bigeasyweb.co.uk BigEasy Web Design 69 Flockton Court Rockingham Street Sheffield S1 4EB Tel. 07751 413451 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)
You could label the field as "search" and the button as "go" perhaps. I'm guessing you don't want to label the search field because the submit would also be labeled search? Patrick Lauke wrote: Stuart Foulstone If you're only concerned about providing form accessibility for screenreaders, and no other disability, you could use the method below or a transparent.gif with appropriate alt-text would work too. Not necessarily just for screenreader accessibility. If the input itself is large enough, there's no problem for users with motor problems. And arguably, having a button immediately adjacent to the text input that says "Search" (and, I'm assuming, having it in a logical common place used by most other sites, like top-right) is enough visual labelling, so omitting a visible label for that text input shouldn't really cause accessibility issues for other audiences... P Patrick H. Lauke Web Editor External Relations Division University of Salford Room 113, Faraday House Salford, Greater Manchester M5 4WT UK T +44 (0) 161 295 4779 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.salford.ac.uk A GREATER MANCHESTER UNIVERSITY *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)
> Stuart Foulstone > If you're only concerned about providing form accessibility for > screenreaders, and no other disability, you could use the > method below or > a transparent.gif with appropriate alt-text would work too. Not necessarily just for screenreader accessibility. If the input itself is large enough, there's no problem for users with motor problems. And arguably, having a button immediately adjacent to the text input that says "Search" (and, I'm assuming, having it in a logical common place used by most other sites, like top-right) is enough visual labelling, so omitting a visible label for that text input shouldn't really cause accessibility issues for other audiences... P Patrick H. Lauke Web Editor External Relations Division University of Salford Room 113, Faraday House Salford, Greater Manchester M5 4WT UK T +44 (0) 161 295 4779 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.salford.ac.uk A GREATER MANCHESTER UNIVERSITY *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)
Hi,
If you're only concerned about providing form accessibility for
screenreaders, and no other disability, you could use the method below or
a transparent.gif with appropriate alt-text would work too.
Stuart
On Thu, April 12, 2007 2:50 am, Micky Hulse wrote:
> Bojana Lalic wrote:
>> I dont want any text displayed before or after the query text input
>> element. Should I wrap a label around the input element and then hide it
>> using css? How do I get around this accessibility issue?
>
> Me personally, I setup my form normally using label/input, then apply
> absolute positioning to the label if I do not want it to show:
>
> .off, #formId label, .whatever {
> position: absolute;
> left: -999em;
> top: -999em;
> }
>
>
> --
> Wishlists:
> Switch:
> My:
>
>
> ***
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>
>
--
Stuart Foulstone.
http://www.bigeasyweb.co.uk
BigEasy Web Design
69 Flockton Court
Rockingham Street
Sheffield
S1 4EB
Tel. 07751 413451
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Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)
Hi, Yes, quite often accessibility features for people with disabilities increase accessibility for everyone and, hence, "usability". The clickability of label/field makes forms more accessible for people with certain motor problems that have difficulty pointing with a mouse by increasing the "target area" (particularly useful for checkboxes and radio buttons). Stuart On Thu, April 12, 2007 10:29 am, Jixor - Stephen I wrote: > I would refer to that as usability. > > Stuart Foulstone wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Since the ability to click on the label (or field) to put focus on the >> field is an accessibility feature of forms, I don't really understand >> your >> point. >> >> Stuart >> >> >> >> On Thu, April 12, 2007 9:40 am, Jixor - Stephen I wrote: >> >>> The labels are also clickable to focus on their respective fields so I >>> wouldn't say they are purely accessibility oriented in nature. >>> >>> Stuart Foulstone wrote: >>> Hi, The labels are there for accessibility reasons, if you don't want to design for accessibility, don't pretend to. Stuart On Thu, April 12, 2007 1:55 am, Bojana Lalic wrote: > Hi all > > > > Accverify fails my code because my input element does not contain the > alt attribute or label. > > > > I don't want any text displayed before or after the query text input > element. Should I wrap a label around the input element and then hide > it > using css? How do I get around this accessibility issue? > > > > > > name="search_submit" > alt="Submit search query" /> > > > > Regards > > Bojana Lalic > > Web Developer > > education.au > > Level 1, 182 Fullarton Road > > Dulwich, SA 5065 > > p +61 8 8334 3223 > > f + 61 8 8334 3211 > > e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > w http://www.educationau.edu.au > > Visit edna at http://www.edna.edu.au > > > Register Now - Everyone has heard of Wikipedia, the online phenomenon > of > the 21st century, but very few of us know the man behind it. Jimmy > Wales > is coming to Australia! > For further details go to: www.educationau.edu.au/seminar/challenging > > > _ > > IMPORTANT: This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain > private > or > confidential information. > If you think you may not be the intended recipient, or if you have > received this e-mail in error, > please contact the sender immediately and delete all copies of this > e-mail. If you are not the intended > recipient, you must not reproduce any part of this e-mail or disclose > its > contents to any other party. > This email represents the views of the individual sender, which do > not > necessarily reflect those of > education.au limited except where the sender expressly states > otherwise. > It is your responsibility to scan this email and any files > transmitted > with it for viruses or any other > defects. > education.au limited will not be liable for any loss, damage or > consequence caused directly or indirectly by this email. > > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > > > >>> >>> *** >>> List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm >>> Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm >>> Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> *** >>> >> >> >> > > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** -- Stuart Foulstone. http://www.bigeasyweb.co.uk BigEasy Web Design 69 Flockton Court Rockingham Street Sheffield S1 4EB Tel. 07751 413451 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)
I would refer to that as usability. Stuart Foulstone wrote: Hi, Since the ability to click on the label (or field) to put focus on the field is an accessibility feature of forms, I don't really understand your point. Stuart On Thu, April 12, 2007 9:40 am, Jixor - Stephen I wrote: The labels are also clickable to focus on their respective fields so I wouldn't say they are purely accessibility oriented in nature. Stuart Foulstone wrote: Hi, The labels are there for accessibility reasons, if you don't want to design for accessibility, don't pretend to. Stuart On Thu, April 12, 2007 1:55 am, Bojana Lalic wrote: Hi all Accverify fails my code because my input element does not contain the alt attribute or label. I don't want any text displayed before or after the query text input element. Should I wrap a label around the input element and then hide it using css? How do I get around this accessibility issue? Regards Bojana Lalic Web Developer education.au Level 1, 182 Fullarton Road Dulwich, SA 5065 p +61 8 8334 3223 f + 61 8 8334 3211 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w http://www.educationau.edu.au Visit edna at http://www.edna.edu.au Register Now - Everyone has heard of Wikipedia, the online phenomenon of the 21st century, but very few of us know the man behind it. Jimmy Wales is coming to Australia! For further details go to: www.educationau.edu.au/seminar/challenging _ IMPORTANT: This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain private or confidential information. If you think you may not be the intended recipient, or if you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete all copies of this e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not reproduce any part of this e-mail or disclose its contents to any other party. This email represents the views of the individual sender, which do not necessarily reflect those of education.au limited except where the sender expressly states otherwise. It is your responsibility to scan this email and any files transmitted with it for viruses or any other defects. education.au limited will not be liable for any loss, damage or consequence caused directly or indirectly by this email. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)
Hi, Since the ability to click on the label (or field) to put focus on the field is an accessibility feature of forms, I don't really understand your point. Stuart On Thu, April 12, 2007 9:40 am, Jixor - Stephen I wrote: > The labels are also clickable to focus on their respective fields so I > wouldn't say they are purely accessibility oriented in nature. > > Stuart Foulstone wrote: >> Hi, >> >> The labels are there for accessibility reasons, if you don't want to >> design for accessibility, don't pretend to. >> >> Stuart >> >> >> On Thu, April 12, 2007 1:55 am, Bojana Lalic wrote: >> >>> Hi all >>> >>> >>> >>> Accverify fails my code because my input element does not contain the >>> alt attribute or label. >>> >>> >>> >>> I don't want any text displayed before or after the query text input >>> element. Should I wrap a label around the input element and then hide >>> it >>> using css? How do I get around this accessibility issue? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> alt="Submit search query" /> >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Bojana Lalic >>> >>> Web Developer >>> >>> education.au >>> >>> Level 1, 182 Fullarton Road >>> >>> Dulwich, SA 5065 >>> >>> p +61 8 8334 3223 >>> >>> f + 61 8 8334 3211 >>> >>> e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>> w http://www.educationau.edu.au >>> >>> Visit edna at http://www.edna.edu.au >>> >>> >>> Register Now - Everyone has heard of Wikipedia, the online phenomenon >>> of >>> the 21st century, but very few of us know the man behind it. Jimmy >>> Wales >>> is coming to Australia! >>> For further details go to: www.educationau.edu.au/seminar/challenging >>> >>> >>> _ >>> >>> IMPORTANT: This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain private >>> or >>> confidential information. >>> If you think you may not be the intended recipient, or if you have >>> received this e-mail in error, >>> please contact the sender immediately and delete all copies of this >>> e-mail. If you are not the intended >>> recipient, you must not reproduce any part of this e-mail or disclose >>> its >>> contents to any other party. >>> This email represents the views of the individual sender, which do not >>> necessarily reflect those of >>> education.au limited except where the sender expressly states >>> otherwise. >>> It is your responsibility to scan this email and any files transmitted >>> with it for viruses or any other >>> defects. >>> education.au limited will not be liable for any loss, damage or >>> consequence caused directly or indirectly by this email. >>> >>> >>> >>> *** >>> List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm >>> Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm >>> Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> *** >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** -- Stuart Foulstone. http://www.bigeasyweb.co.uk BigEasy Web Design 69 Flockton Court Rockingham Street Sheffield S1 4EB Tel. 07751 413451 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)
The labels are also clickable to focus on their respective fields so I wouldn't say they are purely accessibility oriented in nature. Stuart Foulstone wrote: Hi, The labels are there for accessibility reasons, if you don't want to design for accessibility, don't pretend to. Stuart On Thu, April 12, 2007 1:55 am, Bojana Lalic wrote: Hi all Accverify fails my code because my input element does not contain the alt attribute or label. I don't want any text displayed before or after the query text input element. Should I wrap a label around the input element and then hide it using css? How do I get around this accessibility issue? Regards Bojana Lalic Web Developer education.au Level 1, 182 Fullarton Road Dulwich, SA 5065 p +61 8 8334 3223 f + 61 8 8334 3211 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w http://www.educationau.edu.au Visit edna at http://www.edna.edu.au Register Now - Everyone has heard of Wikipedia, the online phenomenon of the 21st century, but very few of us know the man behind it. Jimmy Wales is coming to Australia! For further details go to: www.educationau.edu.au/seminar/challenging _ IMPORTANT: This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain private or confidential information. If you think you may not be the intended recipient, or if you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete all copies of this e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not reproduce any part of this e-mail or disclose its contents to any other party. This email represents the views of the individual sender, which do not necessarily reflect those of education.au limited except where the sender expressly states otherwise. It is your responsibility to scan this email and any files transmitted with it for viruses or any other defects. education.au limited will not be liable for any loss, damage or consequence caused directly or indirectly by this email. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)
Hi, The labels are there for accessibility reasons, if you don't want to design for accessibility, don't pretend to. Stuart On Thu, April 12, 2007 1:55 am, Bojana Lalic wrote: > Hi all > > > > Accverify fails my code because my input element does not contain the > alt attribute or label. > > > > I don't want any text displayed before or after the query text input > element. Should I wrap a label around the input element and then hide it > using css? How do I get around this accessibility issue? > > > > > > alt="Submit search query" /> > > > > Regards > > Bojana Lalic > > Web Developer > > education.au > > Level 1, 182 Fullarton Road > > Dulwich, SA 5065 > > p +61 8 8334 3223 > > f + 61 8 8334 3211 > > e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > w http://www.educationau.edu.au > > Visit edna at http://www.edna.edu.au > > > Register Now - Everyone has heard of Wikipedia, the online phenomenon of > the 21st century, but very few of us know the man behind it. Jimmy Wales > is coming to Australia! > For further details go to: www.educationau.edu.au/seminar/challenging > > > _ > > IMPORTANT: This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain private or > confidential information. > If you think you may not be the intended recipient, or if you have > received this e-mail in error, > please contact the sender immediately and delete all copies of this > e-mail. If you are not the intended > recipient, you must not reproduce any part of this e-mail or disclose its > contents to any other party. > This email represents the views of the individual sender, which do not > necessarily reflect those of > education.au limited except where the sender expressly states otherwise. > It is your responsibility to scan this email and any files transmitted > with it for viruses or any other > defects. > education.au limited will not be liable for any loss, damage or > consequence caused directly or indirectly by this email. > > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > -- Stuart Foulstone. http://www.bigeasyweb.co.uk BigEasy Web Design 69 Flockton Court Rockingham Street Sheffield S1 4EB Tel. 07751 413451 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)
Bojana Lalic wrote:
I don’t want any text displayed before or after the query text input
element. Should I wrap a label around the input element and then hide it
using css? How do I get around this accessibility issue?
Me personally, I setup my form normally using label/input, then apply
absolute positioning to the label if I do not want it to show:
.off, #formId label, .whatever {
position: absolute;
left: -999em;
top: -999em;
}
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