Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.12 features
On 31.10.2008 18:36 Uhr, Tres Seaver wrote: In that case Plone will neither use 2.11 nor 2.12 but go straight for a Zope 2.13 including Python 2.6. A major release every six month would be desirable for us in that case. Right now I don't see anyone, who would be using those releases. If those people exist, please speak up. Plone isn't the only consumer of Zope2, although it is clearly the biggest one. Tres, what are you current needs and requirements (properly based on your Repoze project)? I agree that Plone isn't the only consumer but I wonder if all other consumers really have the need jumping on every train passing the train station. We have the luxury with four supported Zope 2 major release. I don't want a fith right now unless we are having very good reasons. I think we need to move toward 2.6 compatibility, but we need to give people a migration path, largely because 2.6 will break 3rd party apps in ways that 2.4 doesn't warn about. So, I would like to see a 2.12 which is explicity about bridging first to 2.5 support: that way, people get a chance to clean up the new deprecation warnings (e.g., for the 'with' keyword, etc.). If ZODB 3.9 lands in time, then a near-term release of Zope 2.12 could be this consolidation release (2.5 support, new ZODB, including maybe RelStorage, other work done to date). Good points - let's head for Python 2.5 support in Zope 2.12. We could the focus trunk development on 2.6 compatibility, with the goal of releasing a 2.13 no later than Q3 next year. ACK In the meantime, we can acknowledge that 2.8 and 2.9 are retired (no future work except maybe important security fixes), +1 and announce that 2.10 will be retired after the 2.12 release: We have to care about 2.10 for a longer period because of the large amount of Plone 3.X installations. I don't see a win there, myself: I'd rather make an easier transition for 2.12 than spend resources on a potentially-destabilizing backport of 2.5 compatibility. ok - the goals for the 2.12 release should be documented somewhere (your ideas, see above + the Hanno's proposals). Andreas -- ZOPYX Ltd. Co. KG - Charlottenstr. 37/1 - 72070 Tübingen - Germany Web: www.zopyx.com - Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Phone +49 - 7071 - 793376 Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, Handelsregister A 381535 Geschäftsführer/Gesellschafter: ZOPYX Limited, Birmingham, UK E-Publishing, Python, Zope Plone development, Consulting begin:vcard fn:Andreas Jung n:Jung;Andreas org:ZOPYX Ltd. Co. KG adr;quoted-printable:;;Charlottenstr. 37/1;T=C3=BCbingen;;72070;Germany email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:CEO tel;work:+49-7071-793376 tel;fax:+49-7071-7936840 tel;home:+49-7071-793257 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.zopyx.com version:2.1 end:vcard ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.12 features
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Nov 4, 2008, at 09:10 , Andreas Jung wrote: In the meantime, we can acknowledge that 2.8 and 2.9 are retired (no future work except maybe important security fixes), +1 and announce that 2.10 will be retired after the 2.12 release: We have to care about 2.10 for a longer period because of the large amount of Plone 3.X installations. While there have been attempts to come up with an orderly release schedule I don't think anyone ever suggested some kind of deprecation scheme for Zope versions. It would be very helpful for everyone in the community to have a place to go where they can see which versions are in which support state. So far Zope versions just slipped into unsupported state by some implied - but unstated - consensus. Clearly, it's impossible to support all these versions from 2.8 to 2.12, +1 from me for dropping 2.8 and 2.9. Just make sure this is mentioned somewhere obvious. jens -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkkQFvkACgkQRAx5nvEhZLIP5wCfUj+XMB8JZguAC8Gje9dcgYSD Fb0AnRjFPYihYKesoXZMxhhExfSYoJdO =DJ8R -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.12 features
Jens Vagelpohl wrote: On Nov 4, 2008, at 09:10 , Andreas Jung wrote: In the meantime, we can acknowledge that 2.8 and 2.9 are retired (no future work except maybe important security fixes), +1 and announce that 2.10 will be retired after the 2.12 release: We have to care about 2.10 for a longer period because of the large amount of Plone 3.X installations. While there have been attempts to come up with an orderly release schedule I don't think anyone ever suggested some kind of deprecation scheme for Zope versions. It would be very helpful for everyone in the community to have a place to go where they can see which versions are in which support state. So far Zope versions just slipped into unsupported state by some implied - but unstated - consensus. Clearly, it's impossible to support all these versions from 2.8 to 2.12, +1 from me for dropping 2.8 and 2.9. Just make sure this is mentioned somewhere obvious. From what I remember there have been discussions around this while attempting to get to a six-month time based release cycle at some point. If I'm not mistaken there was something about every release being supported two years after its initial release in those discussions. But time went on, we haven't sticked to a time-based release schedule and those policies haven't been written down or been followed. So it's probably time to document and decide on them once again :) Hanno ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.12 features
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Nov 4, 2008, at 13:59 , Hanno Schlichting wrote: If I'm not mistaken there was something about every release being supported two years after its initial release in those discussions. But time went on, we haven't sticked to a time-based release schedule and those policies haven't been written down or been followed. 2 years sounds fine to me. By that reasoning, we can stop supporting 2.8 (2.8.0 was released June 11, 2005) and 2.9 (2.9.0 was released January 9, 2006). However, if we were strict it would also mean EOL for 2.10 (2.10.0 was released October 4, 2006). But we can be lenient... jens -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkkQhBUACgkQRAx5nvEhZLJULgCgqQiCKyA/PXgQPDastrc2dGgU ucAAn3qBkt52dJsbU/e1yOtYIsvmxAOw =88Sa -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.12 features
Jens Vagelpohl wrote: On Nov 4, 2008, at 13:59 , Hanno Schlichting wrote: If I'm not mistaken there was something about every release being supported two years after its initial release in those discussions. But time went on, we haven't sticked to a time-based release schedule and those policies haven't been written down or been followed. 2 years sounds fine to me. By that reasoning, we can stop supporting 2.8 (2.8.0 was released June 11, 2005) and 2.9 (2.9.0 was released January 9, 2006). However, if we were strict it would also mean EOL for 2.10 (2.10.0 was released October 4, 2006). But we can be lenient... +1 to retiring 2.8, 2.9. Of course, if people still want to maintain it, they should be welcome to. I just don't think we should have to merge bugfixes to those branches anymore. Maintaining 2.10, 2.11, trunk seems perfectly acceptable and it's plenty to deal with. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.12 features
Andreas Jung wrote: On 04.11.2008 18:19 Uhr, Jens Vagelpohl wrote: On Nov 4, 2008, at 13:59 , Hanno Schlichting wrote: If I'm not mistaken there was something about every release being supported two years after its initial release in those discussions. But time went on, we haven't sticked to a time-based release schedule and those policies haven't been written down or been followed. 2 years sounds fine to me. We must be careful with such time-based policies because of the installed (Plone) installations. Zope 2.8 and Zope 2.9 are definitely dead horses. We must support Zope 2.10 (which is a pretty good release) as long as Plone 3.X is supported. Let's say Plone 4 becomes mature in late 2009 and widely used by 2010...then we can talk about getting rid of 2.10 (except the Plone releases = 3.2 would adopt Zope 2.11 or 2.12 at some point but I haven't heard that this is on the agenda for the next Plone 3.X releases). There are currently no plans to switch to a new Zope version for neither Plone 3.2 or 3.3. There are no plans or even a preliminary roadmap for a Plone 3.4 release yet. It would be something like a summer or autumn 2009 release. I think we will have some kind of feedback loop here, which makes it a good idea from a Plone perspective to upgrade to at least Zope 2.11 for Plone 3.4, as Zope 2.10 by whatever date that will be, is going to be an old an rather unmaintained release. So sticking to support 2.10, 2.11 and trunk right now and phasing out 2.10 sometime next year, sounds like a good roadmap to me. Hanno ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.12 features
On 04.11.2008 18:41 Uhr, Hanno Schlichting wrote: Andreas Jung wrote: On 04.11.2008 18:19 Uhr, Jens Vagelpohl wrote: On Nov 4, 2008, at 13:59 , Hanno Schlichting wrote: If I'm not mistaken there was something about every release being supported two years after its initial release in those discussions. But time went on, we haven't sticked to a time-based release schedule and those policies haven't been written down or been followed. 2 years sounds fine to me. We must be careful with such time-based policies because of the installed (Plone) installations. Zope 2.8 and Zope 2.9 are definitely dead horses. We must support Zope 2.10 (which is a pretty good release) as long as Plone 3.X is supported. Let's say Plone 4 becomes mature in late 2009 and widely used by 2010...then we can talk about getting rid of 2.10 (except the Plone releases= 3.2 would adopt Zope 2.11 or 2.12 at some point but I haven't heard that this is on the agenda for the next Plone 3.X releases). There are currently no plans to switch to a new Zope version for neither Plone 3.2 or 3.3. There are no plans or even a preliminary roadmap for a Plone 3.4 release yet. It would be something like a summer or autumn 2009 release. I think we will have some kind of feedback loop here, which makes it a good idea from a Plone perspective to upgrade to at least Zope 2.11 for Plone 3.4, as Zope 2.10 by whatever date that will be, is going to be an old an rather unmaintained release. So sticking to support 2.10, 2.11 and trunk right now and phasing out 2.10 sometime next year, sounds like a good roadmap to me. ok,ok - I'll stop caring to much about the Plone world :-) Andreas begin:vcard fn:Andreas Jung n:Jung;Andreas org:ZOPYX Ltd. Co. KG adr;quoted-printable:;;Charlottenstr. 37/1;T=C3=BCbingen;;72070;Germany email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:CEO tel;work:+49-7071-793376 tel;fax:+49-7071-7936840 tel;home:+49-7071-793257 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.zopyx.com version:2.1 end:vcard ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.12 features
On 30.10.2008 21:41 Uhr, Tres Seaver wrote: From a Zope perspective 2.11 should have had Python 2.5 support, but nobody cared enough to make it happen. We can support Python 2.4 and 2.5 alone in Zope 2.12 and release it in the next months. We should do a 2.12 very soon (before year end, likely), and it should retain 2.4 compatibility. What are our current needs for having a Python 2.5 compatible Zope 2 version (except it would be nice for having one). Being in sync with the latest Python 2.6 version is much more important than jumping on a half-dead horse like Python 2.5. Introducing another major Zope release with very little new exciting feature does not make sense to me at the time right now. It just adds another major release we have to support (we already support 2.9-2.11 and a bit 2.8) + the complexity for supporting two different Python versions for Zope 2.12. I am open to arguments but I really want to see why we need Zope 2.12 with Python 2.5 support this year (or at least very soon). In that case Plone will neither use 2.11 nor 2.12 but go straight for a Zope 2.13 including Python 2.6. A major release every six month would be desirable for us in that case. Right now I don't see anyone, who would be using those releases. If those people exist, please speak up. Plone isn't the only consumer of Zope2, although it is clearly the biggest one. Tres, what are you current needs and requirements (properly based on your Repoze project)? I agree that Plone isn't the only consumer but I wonder if all other consumers really have the need jumping on every train passing the train station. We have the luxury with four supported Zope 2 major release. I don't want a fith right now unless we are having very good reasons. Keeping an orderly succession of releases with good compatibility is important for the whole ecosystem (frankly, Plone should be willing to move to newer Zope versions even in a second dot release, but that is another debate). This is already the case (more or less). In my experience strategic consumers are possibly more interested in slower release cycles instead of getting major releases very often. I doubt that much people care about using Python 2.4 or Python 2.5 (I personally don't care much about Python 2.5)..other feature likes e.g. a new ZODB version with some cool new feature is more important for justifying a new major release. If Sidnei should be successful with making Plone 2.11 compatible with Python 2.5 then we might add inofficial support for Python 2.5 to the current Zope 2.11 release...but as stated earlier I would like to see some arguments why Python 2.5 compatiblity is necessary now and why Python 2.6 support at some time next year would not be good enough. Andreas begin:vcard fn:Andreas Jung n:Jung;Andreas org:ZOPYX Ltd. Co. KG adr;quoted-printable:;;Charlottenstr. 37/1;T=C3=BCbingen;;72070;Germany email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:CEO tel;work:+49-7071-793376 tel;fax:+49-7071-7936840 tel;home:+49-7071-793257 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.zopyx.com version:2.1 end:vcard ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.12 features / roadmap
Andreas Jung [EMAIL PROTECTED] From what I know of other consumers of Zope 2, it seems Haufe doesn't have a need for any of the Zope 2.12 features at this point, but is using Zope 2.11 / Zope 3.4 as a development base. There is no special need for a Zope 2.12 release from the Haufe side - we still have to catch up :-) Ditto for Silva (the catch up as well) -- Kit BLAKE · Infrae · http://infrae.com/ + 31 10 243 7051 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.12 features
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Andreas Jung wrote: On 30.10.2008 21:41 Uhr, Tres Seaver wrote: What are our current needs for having a Python 2.5 compatible Zope 2 version (except it would be nice for having one). Being in sync with the latest Python 2.6 version is much more important than jumping on a half-dead horse like Python 2.5. Introducing another major Zope release with very little new exciting feature does not make sense to me at the time right now. It just adds another major release we have to support (we already support 2.9-2.11 and a bit 2.8) + the complexity for supporting two different Python versions for Zope 2.12. I am open to arguments but I really want to see why we need Zope 2.12 with Python 2.5 support this year (or at least very soon). In that case Plone will neither use 2.11 nor 2.12 but go straight for a Zope 2.13 including Python 2.6. A major release every six month would be desirable for us in that case. Right now I don't see anyone, who would be using those releases. If those people exist, please speak up. Plone isn't the only consumer of Zope2, although it is clearly the biggest one. Tres, what are you current needs and requirements (properly based on your Repoze project)? I agree that Plone isn't the only consumer but I wonder if all other consumers really have the need jumping on every train passing the train station. We have the luxury with four supported Zope 2 major release. I don't want a fith right now unless we are having very good reasons. I think we need to move toward 2.6 compatibility, but we need to give people a migration path, largely because 2.6 will break 3rd party apps in ways that 2.4 doesn't warn about. So, I would like to see a 2.12 which is explicity about bridging first to 2.5 support: that way, people get a chance to clean up the new deprecation warnings (e.g., for the 'with' keyword, etc.). If ZODB 3.9 lands in time, then a near-term release of Zope 2.12 could be this consolidation release (2.5 support, new ZODB, including maybe RelStorage, other work done to date). We could the focus trunk development on 2.6 compatibility, with the goal of releasing a 2.13 no later than Q3 next year. In the meantime, we can acknowledge that 2.8 and 2.9 are retired (no future work except maybe important security fixes), and announce that 2.10 will be retired after the 2.12 release: that may be incentive enough for Plone 3.3 to ship on 2.12, for instance. WRT repoze: except for the 'repoze.zope2' and 'repoze.plone' packages, we already have 2.5 / 2.6 support in hand, and in fact are deploying non-Zope2 customer applications using both versions. Keeping an orderly succession of releases with good compatibility is important for the whole ecosystem (frankly, Plone should be willing to move to newer Zope versions even in a second dot release, but that is another debate). This is already the case (more or less). In my experience strategic consumers are possibly more interested in slower release cycles instead of getting major releases very often. I doubt that much people care about using Python 2.4 or Python 2.5 (I personally don't care much about Python 2.5)..other feature likes e.g. a new ZODB version with some cool new feature is more important for justifying a new major release. If Sidnei should be successful with making Plone 2.11 compatible with Python 2.5 then we might add inofficial support for Python 2.5 to the current Zope 2.11 release...but as stated earlier I would like to see some arguments why Python 2.5 compatiblity is necessary now and why Python 2.6 support at some time next year would not be good enough. I don't see a win there, myself: I'd rather make an easier transition for 2.12 than spend resources on a potentially-destabilizing backport of 2.5 compatibility. Tres. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Palladion Software Excellence by Designhttp://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJC0Ia+gerLs4ltQ4RAv8MAKDJAgpzus+Oh86aH0RgbGEXh26EDgCfQUL/ cnb/9SyKbWUg/JwqmC7tv5w= =qvj8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.12 features
On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 15:03, Hanno Schlichting [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Reconsider getting rid of ZClasses +1 I have some things I want to do when it coms to timezones, so I would like to mentally prepare me for about what release date we are talking about here, so I know when I have to do this. Could be a good xmas entertainment for example. :) -- Lennart Regebro: Zope and Plone consulting. http://www.colliberty.com/ +33 661 58 14 64 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.12 features
On 30.10.2008 18:01 Uhr, Lennart Regebro wrote: On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 15:03, Hanno Schlichting[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Reconsider getting rid of ZClasses +1 I have some things I want to do when it coms to timezones, so I would like to mentally prepare me for about what release date we are talking about here, so I know when I have to do this. Could be a good xmas entertainment for example. :) I think there is need for setting a release date right now - I know that this a total contradiction to our former approach with time-based releases. The current 2.11 codebase is pretty much in sync with the latest Zope web-components. Since the Zope 2 development is in parts driven by the Plone community and their needs, it does make sense keeping the development in some way in sync with the Plone 4 release. Not much to be added to the feature set as proposed by Hanno - except a dedicated +1 for getting rid of ZClasses. Andreas begin:vcard fn:Andreas Jung n:Jung;Andreas org:ZOPYX Ltd. Co. KG adr;quoted-printable:;;Charlottenstr. 37/1;T=C3=BCbingen;;72070;Germany email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:CEO tel;work:+49-7071-793376 tel;fax:+49-7071-7936840 tel;home:+49-7071-793257 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.zopyx.com version:2.1 end:vcard ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.12 features
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sidnei da Silva wrote: - Official Python 2.5 and 2.6 support (almost done, requires a community decision on when we call RestricedPython supported and reviewed) +1 for 2.5; I'm pretty sure 2.6 is not there yet, and may be too hard to aim for in one release. What makes you think so? A big pile of failing tests (not to mention DeprecationWarnings) when I build the trunk and run with Python 2.6:: $ cd projects/Zope-CVS/Zope-trunk $ svn up ... $ make clobber ... $ ../bin/python2.6 --version Python 2.6 $ ./configure --with-python=`cd .. pwd`/bin/python2.6 \ make inplace ... Zope binaries installed successfully ... $ ../bin/python/2.6 test.py --all ... Total: 6323 tests, 53 failures, 118 errors in 2 minutes 56.873 seconds. The corrsponding 2.4 and 2.5 builds have 3 test failures which you and I have been corrsponding about (the 'raise_standardErrorMessage' bit, plus the 'zope.testbrowser' failures -- see [1]); the 2.5 build also spews a non-trivial number of DeprecationWarnings. Those failures all seem to be incidental to landing the 2.5 - 2.6 compatibility changes from GSoC. [1] http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2008-October/010393.html Tres. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Palladion Software Excellence by Designhttp://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJCg/G+gerLs4ltQ4RAr8IAKC9sbn/oXI8AMgkh+OsqNL//3xzxACfVxCP uJbStS9X7u2VG51F+CKL9uk= =Bu1/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.12 features
Tres Seaver wrote: Hanno Schlichting wrote: Here's a list of things I'd like to see in a 2.12 release: - Official Python 2.5 and 2.6 support (almost done, requires a community decision on when we call RestricedPython supported and reviewed) +1 for 2.5; I'm pretty sure 2.6 is not there yet, and may be too hard to aim for in one release. Let me explain why I'd like to aim for Python 2.6 as a supported version from a Plone perspective. Plone's roadmap including true major versions looks like this: 1.0 - February 2003 2.1 - September 2005 3.0 - August 2007 4.0 - maybe late 2009 5.0 - not likely before 2011 My guesstimate says, we are going to release major new versions about every two years. This is a wild guesstimate but the best I have today. In addition I don't see us moving to new Python versions outside of those major version changes. From my point of view it is desirable for us to be able to run Plone 4.0 based on Python 2.6 in about a year and use it as a stable version throughout 2010 and 2011. By that time we will be three years after the release of Python 3. I'd like to be able to use those years to prepare our codebase for Python 3 and have a possibility to use it for Plone 5. Python 2.6 will give us the chance of preparing for that move. Maybe I'm going to be wrong and we will move to yearly major releases, maybe Plone dies, Python 3 is not adopted by anyone. All possible, but based on the knowledge I have today, not moving to Python 2.6 for the next major Plone version will leave us behind in a Python world, which has moved on. From a Zope perspective 2.11 should have had Python 2.5 support, but nobody cared enough to make it happen. We can support Python 2.4 and 2.5 alone in Zope 2.12 and release it in the next months. In that case Plone will neither use 2.11 nor 2.12 but go straight for a Zope 2.13 including Python 2.6. A major release every six month would be desirable for us in that case. Right now I don't see anyone, who would be using those releases. If those people exist, please speak up. Hanno ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.12 features
Tres Seaver wrote: Hanno Schlichting wrote: I'm fine with having Plone 4 able to run on a 2.6-compatible Zope2. If we add Python 2.6 to the supported list for a no-later-than Q3 2009 Zope release, that should be sufficient, no? Sure! From a Zope perspective 2.11 should have had Python 2.5 support, but nobody cared enough to make it happen. We can support Python 2.4 and 2.5 alone in Zope 2.12 and release it in the next months. We should do a 2.12 very soon (before year end, likely), and it should retain 2.4 compatibility. That is a perfectly fine and good plan. In that case Plone will neither use 2.11 nor 2.12 but go straight for a Zope 2.13 including Python 2.6. A major release every six month would be desirable for us in that case. Right now I don't see anyone, who would be using those releases. If those people exist, please speak up. Plone isn't the only consumer of Zope2, although it is clearly the biggest one. Keeping an orderly succession of releases with good compatibility is important for the whole ecosystem. Please do not mistake this as a this is how we should release Zope2 - Plone rulez opinion. I'm trying to offer and communicate our roadmap, so it can be taken into account for the Zope2 roadmap. We are not the only consumer and Plone does have different priorities and practices than Zope. What is good and practical for Plone might still conflict with what is good and healthy for Zope. I'm very much interested in different opinions like yours, so we can get a good roadmap that fits all the different interest groups. Hanno ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
