Re: Configure 4D server as Windows Service on Windows Server 2016
I looked at the blogs posted and they seem to be in project mode. If I convert to normal, can they be used in v17.4 or must they be in an r release Regards Chuck On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 8:02 PM Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote: > > 4D Server does not have to run on a server OS. > many users find the option both practical and affordable. > the server side admin window makes perfect sense for those kinds of > distribution. > > for headless deployment, > > https://blog.4d.com/headless-4d-applications/ > > you can either: > > 1. take advantage of the limited version of the admin window which is > available on the client side, or > > 2. publish your own remote admin api using the admin features that are now > accessible by code, > > https://blog.4d.com/customize-the-admin-dialog-with-4d-code/ > https://blog.4d.com/build-a-web-based-monitoring-dialog-step-by-step > > > On Apr 11, 2020, at 0:06, Tonu Mikk via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > > wrote: > > How are people configuring a 4D server to run as Windows service so that > > multiple > > users can have access to the 4D server admin screens? > > ** > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) > Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html > Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech > Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com > ** -- - Chuck Miller Voice: (617) 739-0306 Fax: (617) 232-1064 Informed Solutions, Inc. Brookline, MA 02446 USA Registered 4D Developer Providers of 4D, Sybase & SQL Server connectivity https://www.informed-solutions.com - This message and any attached documents contain information which may be confidential, subject to privilege or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. These materials are intended only for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of this transmission, you are hereby notified that any distribution, disclosure, printing, copying, storage, modification or the taking of any action in reliance upon this transmission is strictly prohibited. Delivery of this message to any person other than the intended recipient shall not compromise or waive such confidentiality, privilege or exemption from disclosure as to this communication. ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Configure 4D server as Windows Service on Windows Server 2016
4D Server does not have to run on a server OS. many users find the option both practical and affordable. the server side admin window makes perfect sense for those kinds of distribution. for headless deployment, https://blog.4d.com/headless-4d-applications/ you can either: 1. take advantage of the limited version of the admin window which is available on the client side, or 2. publish your own remote admin api using the admin features that are now accessible by code, https://blog.4d.com/customize-the-admin-dialog-with-4d-code/ https://blog.4d.com/build-a-web-based-monitoring-dialog-step-by-step > On Apr 11, 2020, at 0:06, Tonu Mikk via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote: > How are people configuring a 4D server to run as Windows service so that > multiple > users can have access to the 4D server admin screens? ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Configure 4D server as Windows Service on Windows Server 2016
Hello, We are having trouble being able to manage a 4D server (v18.2) on Windows Server 2016 when the 4D server Windows service is set up to run under a Local System account. The interactive service window never shows up. I understand that Microsoft has turned off the Interactive Service window being able to interact with the desktop in Windows Server 2016. How are people configuring a 4D server to run as Windows service so that multiple users can have access to the 4D server admin screens? Thank you! -- Tonu Mikk Adaptive Technologist | Disability Resource Center | disability.umn.edu University of Minnesota | umn.edu tm...@umn.edu | 612-625-3307 Pronouns: He/Him/His ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Configure 4D server as Windows Service on Windows Server 2016
I think it will only work for designer or administrator accounts Not sure if you are running with no passwords Regards Chuck Chuck Miller Voice: (617) 739-0306 Informed Solutions, Inc. Fax: (617) 232-1064 mailto:cjmillerinformed-solutions.com Brookline, MA 02446 USA Registered 4D Developer Providers of 4D and Sybase connectivity http://www.informed-solutions.com This message and any attached documents contain information which may be confidential, subject to privilege or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. These materials are intended only for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of this transmission, you are hereby notified that any distribution, disclosure, printing, copying, storage, modification or the taking of any action in reliance upon this transmission is strictly prohibited. Delivery of this message to any person other than the intended recipient shall not compromise or waive such confidentiality, privilege or exemption from disclosure as to this communication. > On Apr 10, 2020, at 4:18 PM, Tom Benedict via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > Hi Tim, > > The OPEN ADMINISTRATION WINDOW command can be called by any client to view > the Server UI. I believe you can even launch client on the server machine > where the service is running. (You do have have Designer or Administrator > access though.) ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Configure 4D server as Windows Service on Windows Server 2016
Hi Tim, The OPEN ADMINISTRATION WINDOW command can be called by any client to view the Server UI. I believe you can even launch client on the server machine where the service is running. (You do have have Designer or Administrator access though.) HTH, Tom Benedict > On Apr 10, 2020, at 13:10, Tim Fitzgerald via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > Hello, > > We are having trouble being able to manage a 4D server (v18.2) on Windows > Server 2016 when the 4D server Windows service is set up to run under a > Local System account. The interactive service window never shows up. I > understand that Microsoft has turned off the Interactive Service window > being able to interact with the desktop in Windows Server 2016. How are > people configuring a 4D server to run as Windows service so that multiple > users can have access to the 4D server admin screens? > > Thank you! > > -- > Timothy S. Fitzgerald > Disability Resource Center > University of Minnesota > 952-388-2172 ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
RE: Configure 4D server as Windows Service on Windows Server 2016
Tim, We have created an interface which uses the OPEN ADMINISTRATION WINDOW command. This interface is provided to Admin's and accessible via the 4D Client connection. Although this does not give you complete access to every Admin Tool, it generally is enough for normal usage when running as a service. Best, Steve * Stephen J. Orth The Aquila Group, Inc. Office: (608) 834-9213 P.O. Box 690 Mobile: (608) 347-6447 Sun Prairie, WI 53590 E-Mail: s.o...@the-aquila-group.com * -Original Message- From: 4D_Tech <4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com> On Behalf Of Tim Fitzgerald via 4D_Tech Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 3:10 PM To: 4d_tech@lists.4d.com Cc: Tim Fitzgerald Subject: Configure 4D server as Windows Service on Windows Server 2016 Hello, We are having trouble being able to manage a 4D server (v18.2) on Windows Server 2016 when the 4D server Windows service is set up to run under a Local System account. The interactive service window never shows up. I understand that Microsoft has turned off the Interactive Service window being able to interact with the desktop in Windows Server 2016. How are people configuring a 4D server to run as Windows service so that multiple users can have access to the 4D server admin screens? Thank you! -- Timothy S. Fitzgerald Disability Resource Center University of Minnesota 952-388-2172 ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com ** ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Configure 4D server as Windows Service on Windows Server 2016
Hello, We are having trouble being able to manage a 4D server (v18.2) on Windows Server 2016 when the 4D server Windows service is set up to run under a Local System account. The interactive service window never shows up. I understand that Microsoft has turned off the Interactive Service window being able to interact with the desktop in Windows Server 2016. How are people configuring a 4D server to run as Windows service so that multiple users can have access to the 4D server admin screens? Thank you! -- Timothy S. Fitzgerald Disability Resource Center University of Minnesota 952-388-2172 ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Managing 4D Server as a service
On May 11, 2019, at 2:00 PM, JOHN BAUGHMAN wrote: > Got it working. The fix was to use the Admin account in the Log On tab. That > also fixed the Xojo WebApp. The fix did take until the server machine was > restarted. I also opened 4D server and database as Administrator before > restarting the computer. > > Looks like Interactive desktop only works with Local System account checked. > Bummer. It wasn’t always that way. I had sites where this is how I initially set it up and it worked fine. Then something changed either with 4D or Windows and I had to switch to using an account. Now I have to periodically go change the saved password because my client has that option turned in Windows. Luckily I am using my own account login for the 4D Server Service, so when I get prompted to make the password change, I just have to remember to go to the 4D Server machine and also do it there for the Service. Tim * Tim Nevels Innovative Solutions 785-749-3444 timnev...@mac.com * ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Managing 4D Server as a service
Got it working. The fix was to use the Admin account in the Log On tab. That also fixed the Xojo WebApp. The fix did take until the server machine was restarted. I also opened 4D server and database as Administrator before restarting the computer. Looks like Interactive desktop only works with Local System account checked. Bummer. Thanks for all who helped. John > On May 10, 2019, at 3:50 AM, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > On May 10, 2019, at 8:09 AM, JOHN BAUGHMAN wrote: > >> Tim, thank you for that most informative post. It really helps. I will be >> switching my client's 4D Server to a service later this evening for the >> first time. After reading your post I feel far more confident going forward. >> >> The client is running v16R6 on Windows Server 2008 R2. You pointed me in the >> right direction and it appears in this configuration Interactive Services >> works great. I suspect that the client will continue using Win Server 2008 >> until they are forced to upgrade, but I will be moving them to v17 shortly. >> Hopefully Interactive Services will continue to work with v17. > > Windows Server 2008 R2 fully supported interactive desktop, so no need for > Registry entry modifications there. > > But be warned that you may still run into an issue with how you “Log on as:” > in the “Log on” tab in the Services dialog for 4D Server in the Services > window. 4D or Microsoft changed something and I had an issue upgrading from > 4D Server v12 to v16 on Windows Server 2012. > > https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/w6d63gpm5rn5mp7/Services%20Log%20On.PNG > > Normally you just select the default “Local System account” and it works. But > when I did a v12 to v16 upgrade it would not work. Pat Bensky also recently > had this same problem. The solution is to switch to “This account:” and use > an administrator account. But — and Pat will tell you this — be careful how > you specify the account name. It’s not just something like “timnevels” it may > be “\domain\timnevels”. Use the “Browse” button to find the account name and > it will put it in a form that works. > > Also, you may need to “Run as administrator” the 4D Server.exe to be able to > access “Register Current Database as Service” in the File menu of 4D Server. > If the item is disabled, you need to run as administrator. > > One last tip, if you can, since this is a new switch from macOS to Windows, > and if you have ready access to the server machine, start off by NOT running > 4D Server as a Windows Service. Run it as a desktop application. You can do > the Services setup and try it out, but Stop the service mark the service as > “Manual” when you are done setting it up and testing. > > Save running as a Service for a few days. Make sure there are no unexpected > issues with this macOS to Windows conversion. It’s much more convenient and > removes some variables if you just run 4D Server from the Desktop. You can > remote to the server and see what is going on without having do the > interactive services switch dance. Once things are running smoothly, then you > can switch to running as a Service. Any new problems might then be explained > as connected to running the database as a Service and not just “worked fine > on a macOS server but on Windows server it doesn’t work, so it’s a Windows > server problem”. > > Sometimes printing — like creating PDFs on the server — can be an issue when > running as a Service. > > Tim > > * > Tim Nevels > Innovative Solutions > 785-749-3444 > timnev...@mac.com > * > > ** > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) > Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html > Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech > Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com > ** ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Managing 4D Server as a service
John: I see that Tim surfaced this in another thread. -- Douglas von Roeder 949-336-2902 On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 1:20 PM Douglas von Roeder wrote: > John: > > I have one system that’s a built app that runs as a service. Maybe this > applies to your situation. > > When I put out a new structure, I launch the app by choosing the .exe, do > a right mouse and select “Run as administrator”, select the datafile, and > let the app launch. Once it’s running, I launch the built client app, > ensure that the update runs, and then quit the client app. That sequence > ensures that the server has the data file path, that it can respond to > requests, that it can serve the new code, and that the client can update > and connect. > > Next step is to quit 4D Server, start the service running, and log into it > with the built client app. > > I realize that the built server/client is a little different but maybe > launching the server manually would help in your situation. > > -- > Douglas von Roeder > 949-336-2902 > > > On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 1:04 PM JOHN BAUGHMAN via 4D_Tech < > 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote: > >> Well, last night I tried to start the service on the client’s production >> machine and I could not get it to work. >> >> After registering the service from 4D server, I tried starting the >> service from the Service Manager and it indicated that it had started up >> but I was unable to establish a connection using a 4D client. On my VM >> Interactive Services takes a while to show up in the task bar after a >> restart, but it eventually does. On the production server, it never makes >> an appearance. So I have no other way to see it the server is running >> properly. >> >> I then restarted the computer with the service set to start >> automatically. Again I was unable to establish a connection with 4D Client. >> I tried both manually and automatically a few times without success. Each >> time I tried to start up 4D Server normally and on at least one occasion 4D >> asked if I wanted to open the database in Read Only mode, which tells me >> the service had opened the datafile. On other tries, I was able to open the >> database normally. >> >> A couple of other things to note. >> 1. A year or so ago I was investigating the ins and outs of >> running as a service on this same machine and I was able to get everything >> to work. >> >> 2. I have the service 4D’s Application Server listening on port >> 19816 as I have another 4D server running a different database on the same >> box opened normally (not as a service) listening on port 19813. It only >> opens after the Admin user logs in. They both work fine together when both >> are opened normally. >> >> 3. The service 4D is also running a web server which respond to >> requests from a Xojo WebApp running on the same machine. Those requests >> fail when 4D Server is supposedly >> running as a service. >> >> 5. Finally of note is that when the Xojo WebApp is opened as a >> Service it will not open as it unexpectedly quits on startup. All of this, >> Xojo and 4D Server work just fine on my VM and all worked fine a year ago >> when I first started researching things on the production machine. The >> folks at Xojo suggest that my WebApp may be trying to access a file that >> the service does not have access to. Tonight I will be trying to get the >> Xojo service to work with no file access queries in the WebApps startup >> events. >> >> I think that the inability to start both the Xojo WebApp and 4D as >> services is related and may be encountering an issue with the OS, which may >> have different updates than my VM. The production machine has been >> religiously updated by windows over the year,, my VM not so much. >> >> Any suggestions? >> >> Thanks, >> >> John >> >> ** >> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) >> Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html >> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech >> Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com >> ** > > ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Managing 4D Server as a service
John: I have one system that’s a built app that runs as a service. Maybe this applies to your situation. When I put out a new structure, I launch the app by choosing the .exe, do a right mouse and select “Run as administrator”, select the datafile, and let the app launch. Once it’s running, I launch the built client app, ensure that the update runs, and then quit the client app. That sequence ensures that the server has the data file path, that it can respond to requests, that it can serve the new code, and that the client can update and connect. Next step is to quit 4D Server, start the service running, and log into it with the built client app. I realize that the built server/client is a little different but maybe launching the server manually would help in your situation. -- Douglas von Roeder 949-336-2902 On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 1:04 PM JOHN BAUGHMAN via 4D_Tech < 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote: > Well, last night I tried to start the service on the client’s production > machine and I could not get it to work. > > After registering the service from 4D server, I tried starting the service > from the Service Manager and it indicated that it had started up but I was > unable to establish a connection using a 4D client. On my VM Interactive > Services takes a while to show up in the task bar after a restart, but it > eventually does. On the production server, it never makes an appearance. So > I have no other way to see it the server is running properly. > > I then restarted the computer with the service set to start automatically. > Again I was unable to establish a connection with 4D Client. I tried both > manually and automatically a few times without success. Each time I tried > to start up 4D Server normally and on at least one occasion 4D asked if I > wanted to open the database in Read Only mode, which tells me the service > had opened the datafile. On other tries, I was able to open the database > normally. > > A couple of other things to note. > 1. A year or so ago I was investigating the ins and outs of > running as a service on this same machine and I was able to get everything > to work. > > 2. I have the service 4D’s Application Server listening on port > 19816 as I have another 4D server running a different database on the same > box opened normally (not as a service) listening on port 19813. It only > opens after the Admin user logs in. They both work fine together when both > are opened normally. > > 3. The service 4D is also running a web server which respond to > requests from a Xojo WebApp running on the same machine. Those requests > fail when 4D Server is supposedly > running as a service. > > 5. Finally of note is that when the Xojo WebApp is opened as a > Service it will not open as it unexpectedly quits on startup. All of this, > Xojo and 4D Server work just fine on my VM and all worked fine a year ago > when I first started researching things on the production machine. The > folks at Xojo suggest that my WebApp may be trying to access a file that > the service does not have access to. Tonight I will be trying to get the > Xojo service to work with no file access queries in the WebApps startup > events. > > I think that the inability to start both the Xojo WebApp and 4D as > services is related and may be encountering an issue with the OS, which may > have different updates than my VM. The production machine has been > religiously updated by windows over the year,, my VM not so much. > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks, > > John > > ** > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) > Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html > Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech > Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com > ** ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Managing 4D Server as a service
> On May 10, 2019, at 3:50 AM, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > But be warned that you may still run into an issue with how you “Log on as:” > in the “Log on” tab in the Services dialog for 4D Server in the Services > window. 4D or Microsoft changed something and I had an issue upgrading from > 4D Server v12 to v16 on Windows Server 2012. > > https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/w6d63gpm5rn5mp7/Services%20Log%20On.PNG > <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/w6d63gpm5rn5mp7/Services%20Log%20On.PNG> > Normally you just select the default “Local System account” and it works. But > when I did a v12 to v16 upgrade it would not work. Pat Bensky also recently > had this same problem. The solution is to switch to “This account:” and use > an administrator account. But — and Pat will tell you this — be careful how > you specify the account name. It’s not just something like “timnevels” it may > be “\domain\timnevels”. Use the “Browse” button to find the account name and > it will put it in a form that works. That may be my problem (see my recent post). Will check this out tonight. > Also, you may need to “Run as administrator” the 4D Server.exe to be able to > access “Register Current Database as Service” in the File menu of 4D Server. > If the item is disabled, you need to run as administrator. This was not a problem. > One last tip, if you can, since this is a new switch from macOS to Windows, > and if you have ready access to the server machine, start off by NOT running > 4D Server as a Windows Service. Run it as a desktop application. You can do > the Services setup and try it out, but Stop the service mark the service as > “Manual” when you are done setting it up and testing. The server has been running on the production machine not as a service without any problems for over a year. John ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Managing 4D Server as a service
Well, last night I tried to start the service on the client’s production machine and I could not get it to work. After registering the service from 4D server, I tried starting the service from the Service Manager and it indicated that it had started up but I was unable to establish a connection using a 4D client. On my VM Interactive Services takes a while to show up in the task bar after a restart, but it eventually does. On the production server, it never makes an appearance. So I have no other way to see it the server is running properly. I then restarted the computer with the service set to start automatically. Again I was unable to establish a connection with 4D Client. I tried both manually and automatically a few times without success. Each time I tried to start up 4D Server normally and on at least one occasion 4D asked if I wanted to open the database in Read Only mode, which tells me the service had opened the datafile. On other tries, I was able to open the database normally. A couple of other things to note. 1. A year or so ago I was investigating the ins and outs of running as a service on this same machine and I was able to get everything to work. 2. I have the service 4D’s Application Server listening on port 19816 as I have another 4D server running a different database on the same box opened normally (not as a service) listening on port 19813. It only opens after the Admin user logs in. They both work fine together when both are opened normally. 3. The service 4D is also running a web server which respond to requests from a Xojo WebApp running on the same machine. Those requests fail when 4D Server is supposedly running as a service. 5. Finally of note is that when the Xojo WebApp is opened as a Service it will not open as it unexpectedly quits on startup. All of this, Xojo and 4D Server work just fine on my VM and all worked fine a year ago when I first started researching things on the production machine. The folks at Xojo suggest that my WebApp may be trying to access a file that the service does not have access to. Tonight I will be trying to get the Xojo service to work with no file access queries in the WebApps startup events. I think that the inability to start both the Xojo WebApp and 4D as services is related and may be encountering an issue with the OS, which may have different updates than my VM. The production machine has been religiously updated by windows over the year,, my VM not so much. Any suggestions? Thanks, John ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Managing 4D Server as a service
On May 10, 2019, at 8:09 AM, JOHN BAUGHMAN wrote: > Tim, thank you for that most informative post. It really helps. I will be > switching my client's 4D Server to a service later this evening for the first > time. After reading your post I feel far more confident going forward. > > The client is running v16R6 on Windows Server 2008 R2. You pointed me in the > right direction and it appears in this configuration Interactive Services > works great. I suspect that the client will continue using Win Server 2008 > until they are forced to upgrade, but I will be moving them to v17 shortly. > Hopefully Interactive Services will continue to work with v17. Windows Server 2008 R2 fully supported interactive desktop, so no need for Registry entry modifications there. But be warned that you may still run into an issue with how you “Log on as:” in the “Log on” tab in the Services dialog for 4D Server in the Services window. 4D or Microsoft changed something and I had an issue upgrading from 4D Server v12 to v16 on Windows Server 2012. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/w6d63gpm5rn5mp7/Services%20Log%20On.PNG Normally you just select the default “Local System account” and it works. But when I did a v12 to v16 upgrade it would not work. Pat Bensky also recently had this same problem. The solution is to switch to “This account:” and use an administrator account. But — and Pat will tell you this — be careful how you specify the account name. It’s not just something like “timnevels” it may be “\domain\timnevels”. Use the “Browse” button to find the account name and it will put it in a form that works. Also, you may need to “Run as administrator” the 4D Server.exe to be able to access “Register Current Database as Service” in the File menu of 4D Server. If the item is disabled, you need to run as administrator. One last tip, if you can, since this is a new switch from macOS to Windows, and if you have ready access to the server machine, start off by NOT running 4D Server as a Windows Service. Run it as a desktop application. You can do the Services setup and try it out, but Stop the service mark the service as “Manual” when you are done setting it up and testing. Save running as a Service for a few days. Make sure there are no unexpected issues with this macOS to Windows conversion. It’s much more convenient and removes some variables if you just run 4D Server from the Desktop. You can remote to the server and see what is going on without having do the interactive services switch dance. Once things are running smoothly, then you can switch to running as a Service. Any new problems might then be explained as connected to running the database as a Service and not just “worked fine on a macOS server but on Windows server it doesn’t work, so it’s a Windows server problem”. Sometimes printing — like creating PDFs on the server — can be an issue when running as a Service. Tim * Tim Nevels Innovative Solutions 785-749-3444 timnev...@mac.com * ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Managing 4D Server as a service
> On May 9, 2019, at 4:25 PM, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > Current 4D recommendations is to not use interact with desktop when running > 4D Server as a service and to handle everything yourself. Always install ON > ERR CALL method on everything that runs on 4D Server and log the error > somehow so you will never have a runtime error dialog appear. Unfortunately, this is not true. There are several types of errors that show a dialog on the server even if an error hander is installed. See this feature request on the forums for examples. And add your vote for it :). https://forums.4d.com/Post/EN/17994245/1/17994246 John DeSoi, Ph.D. ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
RE: Managing 4D Server as a service
We use Windows Services all the time with success. But we have to launch the server application from time to time as a desktop application as John said, but it is pretty rare. Nearly all errors we try to catch and write the messages to a log file. But there are situations where this isn't possible, e.g. starting with wrong journal file. These messages are generated by 4D processes unmanageable by programming or settings. But there is a feature request that such error message should be logged all the time if the application runs as a service: https://forums.4d.com/Post/DE/19227573/1/19227655#19227655 Regards Lutz ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Managing 4D Server as a service
Tim, thank you for that most informative post. It really helps. I will be switching my client's 4D Server to a service later this evening for the first time. After reading your post I feel far more confident going forward. > On May 9, 2019, at 11:25 AM, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > When interact with desktop is working you will see a program in the Taskbar > with a name like “Interactive Services”. It shows a small window with a > button you can click. Click the button and the screen changes and you switch > — to the "console user" I think it is called — and you will then see the 4D > Server Administration window. Desktop disappears. Then everything looks and > works just as expected. Error dialogs are displayed. You can edit Database > Settings, backup settings, switch tabs in the Administration window, etc. The client is running v16R6 on Windows Server 2008 R2. You pointed me in the right direction and it appears in this configuration Interactive Services works great. I suspect that the client will continue using Win Server 2008 until they are forced to upgrade, but I will be moving them to v17 shortly. Hopefully Interactive Services will continue to work with v17. Thank s again, John ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Managing 4D Server as a service
On May 9, 2019, at 14:25, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote: > > On May 9, 2019, at 2:00 PM, JOHN BAUGHMAN wrote: > >> I am new to this and am wondering how does one manage a 4D Server running as >> a service. If, for example, the server throws an error there is no way to >> see the error. I guess what I am asking is to confirm that there is no way >> to see the server gui while it is running as a service. > > Finally, you can write your own 4D Server Administration window and duplicate > almost all — but not everything — using various commands and methods with the > Execute on Server property set. I think their goal is to provide commands so > that EVERYTHING you can currently do and see on the 4D Server Administration > window will be doable from 4D Client. That includes all the graphs you see on > the “Monitor” tab. OPEN ADMINISTRATION WINDOW may not even be needed. They > are not there yet… maybe with v18 they will finish the command set to make it > possible. > The 4D World Tour example disk include a Server Administration Web Interface, which is really the way to do remote administration. I haven’t tried it, but it looks pretty slick. Tom Benedict ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Managing 4D Server as a service
On May 9, 2019, at 2:00 PM, JOHN BAUGHMAN wrote: > I am new to this and am wondering how does one manage a 4D Server running as > a service. If, for example, the server throws an error there is no way to see > the error. I guess what I am asking is to confirm that there is no way to see > the server gui while it is running as a service. > > Also, I am not sure what "Allow service to interact with desktop" does. I am > still confused after reading up on this option.I have it checked as what I > have read leads me to believe that I need it checked for 4D server to access > thins like the file system, clibboard, email, etc. > > Maybe someone can help me better understand the ins and out of running 4D > server as a service. First things first. Interact with desktop works fine with older versions of 4D Server and older versions of Windows Server. Newer versions have issues. Some combinations it’s just not going to work at all. Others you can get it to work if you do some Windows Registry setting changes. 4D v16+ and Windows Server 2012+ take the most effort to get it to work. And some IT departments have Windows Server configured and user accounts configured to where it is just about impossible to get it to work. You’ll have to provide specific version of 4D Server you will be using and version of Windows Server you will be using for me to comment on how easy/hard it will be to get it working. When interact with desktop is working you will see a program in the Taskbar with a name like “Interactive Services”. It shows a small window with a button you can click. Click the button and the screen changes and you switch — to the "console user" I think it is called — and you will then see the 4D Server Administration window. Desktop disappears. Then everything looks and works just as expected. Error dialogs are displayed. You can edit Database Settings, backup settings, switch tabs in the Administration window, etc. There is also a small window — usually hidden behind the 4D Server MDI window — that has a button to allow you to return to the Desktop. Click that and you are back to Windows Server Desktop that you started from. That is basically it. Microsoft has decided that Interactive Desktop Services is now a bad idea and has depreciated it. It still works, but they block it from working with Registry entries in current Windows Server versions. You can edit the Registry and turn on some Windows Services and it still works. But they make it hard and a PITA to make you not want to use it. But I have used it — and currently are using it — and it works just fine. You want details on how to make it work, Google it or send me a private email and I’ll give you the info to make it work. Current 4D recommendations is to not use interact with desktop when running 4D Server as a service and to handle everything yourself. Always install ON ERR CALL method on everything that runs on 4D Server and log the error somehow so you will never have a runtime error dialog appear. Be aware that sometimes you just have to launch 4D Server not as a service to deal with some things. Like you install a new structure file and you need to set the data file location. You start 4D Server as a Windows Service it will immediately quit. Since you can’t see the “select data file” dialog box, it just quits. So you have to start 4D Server on the Desktop, select the data file and then quit. Then you can start 4D Server as a service and it will stay running since it does not need to show the select data file dialog box. Also some other obscure error dialogs will display and the only way to see them and deal with them is to start 4D Server from the Desktop — not as a service — to see those dialog boxes and deal with them. It is challenging to run 4D Server as a Windows Service 100% of the time. It is supposed to be possible, but I’ve never been able to do it. Every once and a while I have to start it up from the Desktop and deal with a dialog box or message or make some setting change. To see the 4D Server Administration window, you can get it to show from 4D Client. Use the command OPEN ADMINISTRATION WINDOW from 4D Client. If you are using 4D Users and Groups you have to be logged in as Designer for it to work. You can’t do everything from this window that you can on the 4D Server machine, but you do a lot. Finally, you can write your own 4D Server Administration window and duplicate almost all — but not everything — using various commands and methods with the Execute on Server property set. I think their goal is to provide commands so that EVERYTHING you can currently do and see on the 4D Server Administration window will be doable from 4D Client. That includes all the graphs you see on the “Monitor” tab. OPEN ADMINISTRATION WINDOW may not even be needed. They are not there yet… maybe with v18 they
Managing 4D Server as a service
I am new to this and am wondering how does one manage a 4D Server running as a service. If, for example, the server throws an error there is no way to see the error. I guess what I am asking is to confirm that there is no way to see the server gui while it is running as a service. Also, I am not sure what "Allow service to interact with desktop" does. I am still confused after reading up on this option.I have it checked as what I have read leads me to believe that I need it checked for 4D server to access thins like the file system, clibboard, email, etc. Maybe someone can help me better understand the ins and out of running 4D server as a service. Thanks, John ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: 4D Server as a Service
ah, seems like it could've affected windows 10. https://borncity.com/win/2018/07/17/windows-10-update-revisions-july-16-2018/ On 20 July 2018 at 17:43, James Wright wrote: > There was a recent windows updated that caused problems with mssql servers > and web servers. Although I'm not sure it's applicable to windows server > 2012. > > Might be worth reading these: > > > https://borncity.com/win/2018/07/17/iis-web-server-strikes- > after-update-kb4338818/ > https://blog.techygeekshome.info/2018/07/broken-microsoft- > update-kb4338818/ > https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/help/4345459/stop-error- > 0xd1-after-a-race-condition-occurs-in-windows-7-service-pac > > Updates were from last week. > > Problems stopping services and the restarting them. > > There was a patch on Thursday, but we had to install it manually. > > James. > > > On 20 July 2018 at 17:39, David Conley via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > >> Robert, >> >> We have experienced this on several windows computers as well. In our >> case they were windows 10 machines so it isn’t isolated to the server OS. >> Nothing shows up in the event log that would pinpoint the problem. We >> could manually start the database as a service and it starts just fine. It >> just seemed like the service was ignored by windows on startup. We even >> changed to automatic delayed start and that didn’t matter. We haven’t >> gotten to the bottom of this as of yet. Seems like it was introduced by >> some windows patch that was run in. We are running 4D v16.3. >> >> I’m looking at this thread with interest to see if someone has solved the >> problem so we can too. >> >> Regards, >> David >> ** >> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) >> Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html >> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech >> Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com >> ** >> > > > > -- > [image: logo] > *James Wright* C.T.O.*, Drag and Drop* > Tel: 08000 43 22 12 | Suite 6/7 Chichester House, 45 Chichester Road, > Southend-on-Sea, Essex SS1 2JU > supp...@draganddrop.co.uk | www.ezadspro.co.uk | www.draganddrop.co.uk > -- [image: logo] *James Wright* C.T.O.*, Drag and Drop* Tel: 08000 43 22 12 | Suite 6/7 Chichester House, 45 Chichester Road, Southend-on-Sea, Essex SS1 2JU supp...@draganddrop.co.uk | www.ezadspro.co.uk | www.draganddrop.co.uk ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: 4D Server as a Service
There was a recent windows updated that caused problems with mssql servers and web servers. Although I'm not sure it's applicable to windows server 2012. Might be worth reading these: https://borncity.com/win/2018/07/17/iis-web-server-strikes-after-update-kb4338818/ https://blog.techygeekshome.info/2018/07/broken-microsoft-update-kb4338818/ https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/help/4345459/stop-error-0xd1-after-a-race-condition-occurs-in-windows-7-service-pac Updates were from last week. Problems stopping services and the restarting them. There was a patch on Thursday, but we had to install it manually. James. On 20 July 2018 at 17:39, David Conley via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote: > Robert, > > We have experienced this on several windows computers as well. In our > case they were windows 10 machines so it isn’t isolated to the server OS. > Nothing shows up in the event log that would pinpoint the problem. We > could manually start the database as a service and it starts just fine. It > just seemed like the service was ignored by windows on startup. We even > changed to automatic delayed start and that didn’t matter. We haven’t > gotten to the bottom of this as of yet. Seems like it was introduced by > some windows patch that was run in. We are running 4D v16.3. > > I’m looking at this thread with interest to see if someone has solved the > problem so we can too. > > Regards, > David > ** > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) > Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html > Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech > Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com > ** > -- [image: logo] *James Wright* C.T.O.*, Drag and Drop* Tel: 08000 43 22 12 | Suite 6/7 Chichester House, 45 Chichester Road, Southend-on-Sea, Essex SS1 2JU supp...@draganddrop.co.uk | www.ezadspro.co.uk | www.draganddrop.co.uk ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: 4D Server as a Service
Robert, We have experienced this on several windows computers as well. In our case they were windows 10 machines so it isn’t isolated to the server OS. Nothing shows up in the event log that would pinpoint the problem. We could manually start the database as a service and it starts just fine. It just seemed like the service was ignored by windows on startup. We even changed to automatic delayed start and that didn’t matter. We haven’t gotten to the bottom of this as of yet. Seems like it was introduced by some windows patch that was run in. We are running 4D v16.3. I’m looking at this thread with interest to see if someone has solved the problem so we can too. Regards, David ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
RE: 4D Server as a Service
I can only guess ... We experienced something similar in the past, but always it reveals to be a problem caused by us. An example: Usually our server apps are updated automatically during the night, so the service hat to be restarted by the update script. In nearly all cases it works very well, but it happened that there were an error in the startup code of the new version and we got a problem. Not nice, but ... If we are faced with such problems, I restart the server app as a normal application not as a service, only to look if there are some error messages thrown by the 4D server. Unfortunately all these messages are not logged into a file by 4D, so I have to go the way via application start. Theoretically it could be a problem with the interactive services if you use them. These services are more and more restricted by Microsoft. We don't use them. Finding the real cause of the problem is rather difficult or even not possible. If you restarted the service and all was going well there isn't any chance to get the cause. You can try to have a look at the Windows Eventlog but the messages by 4D are mostly not helpful. Regards Lutz ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
4D Server as a Service
This morning, I received a call about a Windows server 2012 where 4D Server v15.6 was not running. Since it runs as a service it seems to normally survive reboots of the server when their IT guys are applying security patches to Windows Server and whatnot. I’ve managed the symptom by restarting the service but I’d like to understand what happened. Apparently 187 hotfix patches were applied to Windows at 2:50 AM, any ideas why 4D Server running as a server did not restart? Thanks, Robert ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
