date:20170723

Amazon and we just use the generic ones.  Just put a self-tapping screw in the 
ring, they are too large.  I need to track down the right one someday.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adair Winter
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 10:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mimosa C5c

Where can it be purchased and can you get stiff arms for it?

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 11:44 PM, Rory Conaway 
> wrote:
I found it.  The MCM has a 38” J-Pole which is stronger than the DS-3000.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of George Skorup
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 12:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mimosa C5c

Documentation on the Rocketdish? The port that faces down is v-pol, the other 
is obviously h-pol. I've used them on ePMP SMs. The "horizontal" on the radio 
goes to the vertical on the dish and vice versa. Most all of these more modern 
radios and their software/drivers don't care if it's backwards. And in fact, 
most can work in a mixed environment where you have H/V on one side and -/+45 
on the other. There are advantages to slant in noisy and multipath environments.
On 7/23/2017 10:34 AM, David Coudron wrote:
We are just starting to install these.   We are using the RocketDish 5G30.   We 
have already learned a couple of things we didn’t expect:

  1.  When you unlock them, you need to select PTMP mode.   There is a question 
during the unlock process that wasn’t highly apparent, and our installer missed 
it and selected PTP or it defaulted to PTP, not sure which yet.   Spent a lot 
of time trying to figure out why it would only see PTP links.   I am not sure 
the question even pops up in the mobile app, we need to look at that again as 
that is what the installer used to unlock it.   We caught it after unlocking 
another one from the web browser on a laptop.
  2.  We also spent quite a bit of time with the cable connections as the 
connectors aren’t marked with polarity.  After getting two opposite answers on 
the polarity of the connectors from Mimosa, the final answer was that connector 
1=Horizontal, but it doesn’t matter as the unit autocorrects for polarity.   
This was late on Friday, we will be working with it again to confirm tomorrow.  
We have been unable to find any documentation on the RocketDish, but aren’t 
sure that using one connector on the dish versus another for Horizontal matters 
if the C5c is really autocorrecting.
  3.  You need a pretty tall and heavy duty J-Pole as the bracket on the back 
is pretty long between the two clamp points.   Normal J-Poles, even the heavy 
ones we are using aren’t long enough.   We are trying to find a better option 
for that.

We expect we will only use these in limited areas as we have been having really 
good luck with the C5.   Just installed a link at 3 miles and are getting RSSI 
of -68.

David Coudron
david.coud...@advantenon.com |  Mobile: 
612-991-7474

Advantenon, Inc. [cid:image001.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0] 

[cid:image002.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0]    
[cid:image003.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0]    
[cid:image004.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0] 
i...@advantenon.com |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, Suite 
315, Plymouth, MN 55447 |  www.advantenon.com |  
Phone: 800-704-4720 |  Local: 
612-454-1545

[cid:image005.jpg@01D30402.18AC7F40]

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 8:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Mimosa C5c

Anyone out there using these?  With what antennas?

Thanks.

-Jason

--

Adair Winter
VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071
C: 806.231.7180
http://www.amarillowireless.net
[https://docs.google.com/a/amarillowireless.net/uc?id=0B-KeaiwIRBHEQl9leFFvVjZuWmc=download]

Re: [AFMUG] Mimosa C5c

Where can it be purchased and can you get stiff arms for it?

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 11:44 PM, Rory Conaway 
wrote:

> I found it.  The MCM has a 38” J-Pole which is stronger than the DS-3000.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *George Skorup
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 23, 2017 12:46 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mimosa C5c
>
>
>
> Documentation on the Rocketdish? The port that faces down is v-pol, the
> other is obviously h-pol. I've used them on ePMP SMs. The "horizontal" on
> the radio goes to the vertical on the dish and vice versa. Most all of
> these more modern radios and their software/drivers don't care if it's
> backwards. And in fact, most can work in a mixed environment where you have
> H/V on one side and -/+45 on the other. There are advantages to slant in
> noisy and multipath environments.
>
> On 7/23/2017 10:34 AM, David Coudron wrote:
>
> We are just starting to install these.   We are using the RocketDish
> 5G30.   We have already learned a couple of things we didn’t expect:
>
>1. When you unlock them, you need to select PTMP mode.   There is a
>question during the unlock process that wasn’t highly apparent, and our
>installer missed it and selected PTP or it defaulted to PTP, not sure which
>yet.   Spent a lot of time trying to figure out why it would only see PTP
>links.   I am not sure the question even pops up in the mobile app, we need
>to look at that again as that is what the installer used to unlock it.   We
>caught it after unlocking another one from the web browser on a laptop.
>2. We also spent quite a bit of time with the cable connections as the
>connectors aren’t marked with polarity.  After getting two opposite answers
>on the polarity of the connectors from Mimosa, the final answer was that
>connector 1=Horizontal, but it doesn’t matter as the unit autocorrects for
>polarity.   This was late on Friday, we will be working with it again to
>confirm tomorrow.  We have been unable to find any documentation on the
>RocketDish, but aren’t sure that using one connector on the dish versus
>another for Horizontal matters if the C5c is really autocorrecting.
>3. You need a pretty tall and heavy duty J-Pole as the bracket on the
>back is pretty long between the two clamp points.   Normal J-Poles, even
>the heavy ones we are using aren’t long enough.   We are trying to find a
>better option for that.
>
>
>
> We expect we will only use these in limited areas as we have been having
> really good luck with the C5.   Just installed a link at 3 miles and are
> getting RSSI of -68.
>
>
>
>
>
> *David Coudron*
>
> david.coud...@advantenon.com |  *Mobile: *612-991-7474 <(612)%20991-7474>
>
>
>
> *Advantenon, Inc.  *   [image: cid:image001.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0]
>   [image:
> cid:image002.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0]   
> [image:
> cid:image003.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0]   
> [image:
> cid:image004.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0] 
>
> i...@advantenon.com |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, Suite 315, Plymouth, MN
> 55447 |  www.advantenon.com |  *Phone:* 800-704-4720 <(800)%20704-4720> |
> *Local: *612-454-1545 <(612)%20454-1545>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 22, 2017 8:55 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Mimosa C5c
>
>
>
> Anyone out there using these?  With what antennas?
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> -Jason
>
>
>



-- 

Adair Winter
VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071
C: 806.231.7180
http://www.amarillowireless.net

Re: [AFMUG] Mimosa C5c

I found it.  The MCM has a 38” J-Pole which is stronger than the DS-3000.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 12:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mimosa C5c

Documentation on the Rocketdish? The port that faces down is v-pol, the other 
is obviously h-pol. I've used them on ePMP SMs. The "horizontal" on the radio 
goes to the vertical on the dish and vice versa. Most all of these more modern 
radios and their software/drivers don't care if it's backwards. And in fact, 
most can work in a mixed environment where you have H/V on one side and -/+45 
on the other. There are advantages to slant in noisy and multipath environments.
On 7/23/2017 10:34 AM, David Coudron wrote:
We are just starting to install these.   We are using the RocketDish 5G30.   We 
have already learned a couple of things we didn’t expect:

  1.  When you unlock them, you need to select PTMP mode.   There is a question 
during the unlock process that wasn’t highly apparent, and our installer missed 
it and selected PTP or it defaulted to PTP, not sure which yet.   Spent a lot 
of time trying to figure out why it would only see PTP links.   I am not sure 
the question even pops up in the mobile app, we need to look at that again as 
that is what the installer used to unlock it.   We caught it after unlocking 
another one from the web browser on a laptop.
  2.  We also spent quite a bit of time with the cable connections as the 
connectors aren’t marked with polarity.  After getting two opposite answers on 
the polarity of the connectors from Mimosa, the final answer was that connector 
1=Horizontal, but it doesn’t matter as the unit autocorrects for polarity.   
This was late on Friday, we will be working with it again to confirm tomorrow.  
We have been unable to find any documentation on the RocketDish, but aren’t 
sure that using one connector on the dish versus another for Horizontal matters 
if the C5c is really autocorrecting.
  3.  You need a pretty tall and heavy duty J-Pole as the bracket on the back 
is pretty long between the two clamp points.   Normal J-Poles, even the heavy 
ones we are using aren’t long enough.   We are trying to find a better option 
for that.

We expect we will only use these in limited areas as we have been having really 
good luck with the C5.   Just installed a link at 3 miles and are getting RSSI 
of -68.

David Coudron
david.coud...@advantenon.com |  Mobile: 
612-991-7474

Advantenon, Inc. [cid:image001.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0] 

[cid:image002.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0]    
[cid:image003.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0]    
[cid:image004.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0] 
i...@advantenon.com |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, Suite 
315, Plymouth, MN 55447 |  www.advantenon.com |  
Phone: 800-704-4720 |  Local: 612-454-1545

[cid:image005.jpg@01D303FC.C9D863C0]

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 8:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Mimosa C5c

Anyone out there using these?  With what antennas?

Thanks.

-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] OT Roomba

2017-07-23 Thread Sean Heskett

I love mine...only problem is making the room "rooomba ready" after my 2
year old nephew has been over playing with toys etc lol

Also my roomba seems to have a thing for my floor lamp but I just don't
think she's turned on by his advances ;)

-sean


On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 9:05 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Got my wife a Roomba for Mother’s day.  The first one only worked for 20
> minutes before going on the fritz.
>
> Been watching the replacement do its thing.  Seems pretty smart.
>
> However it did ship with software that was about a year old.  It is
> supposed to automatically update itself.
>

Re: [AFMUG] WISPAPALOOZA2017 and other misc chat

I also added #mikrotik and #afmug channels, if you're into that kind of thing

http://blog.engineered.online for the link

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 6:18 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
> If anybody is interested, there is a slack channel for
> WISPAPALOOZA2017 setup in our slack group. I just added the link.
>
> Go to http://blog.engineered.online , there is a link to request an
> invite on the right side of the page (or on the bottom if on mobile).
>
> There's other channels there too... isp/wisp, networking, linux,
> general, maybe a channel to talk about tecate and guinness, might add
> one for the McGregor v Mayweather fight, etc.
>
> Join if your interested. If not, ignore this email :)
>
> PS - You can have different notifications between the app / web link
> vs mobile, so your phone doesn't vibrate all day. You can also
> customize notifications to where you don't vibrate or hear any sounds
> but still get a popup.

[AFMUG] WISPAPALOOZA2017 and other misc chat

If anybody is interested, there is a slack channel for
WISPAPALOOZA2017 setup in our slack group. I just added the link.

Go to http://blog.engineered.online , there is a link to request an
invite on the right side of the page (or on the bottom if on mobile).

There's other channels there too... isp/wisp, networking, linux,
general, maybe a channel to talk about tecate and guinness, might add
one for the McGregor v Mayweather fight, etc.

Join if your interested. If not, ignore this email :)

PS - You can have different notifications between the app / web link
vs mobile, so your phone doesn't vibrate all day. You can also
customize notifications to where you don't vibrate or hear any sounds
but still get a popup.

Re: [AFMUG] Installer Wages

2017-07-23 Thread Jeremy

"$12.00 in 1982 had the same buying power as $30.82 in 2017

Annual inflation over this period was about 2.73%"

http://www.dollartimes.com/inflation/inflation.php?amount=12=1982

Makes $17/hr. seem not so good when you look at it that way.

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:48 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> That’s what I was making back in 1982 for similar work
> I guess that is one good thing about being a boomer
>
> *From:* Jeremy
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 23, 2017 9:39 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Installer Wages
>
> My competitors are all starting them at $12/hr if that helps.  I did that
> job for years and years.  I believe that employees need a solid livable
> wage if you want them to mature and stay with the company.  I also want
> them to really love their job, and feel like they are an important asset to
> this company.  I can't imagine doing this job for $12/hr...so how can I
> expect them to?  MY wages are in no way typical for my area, but I have
> extremely high demands and I expect a lot in performance.
>
> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 9:36 AM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
>> "While it is a dangerous job, it also pays well. Their mean annual wage
>> is $44,250. The 10% that made the lowest earned around $26,200 per year,
>> according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The highest paid percentage
>> earn more than $67,000 per year. Hourly this breaks down into $12.60 per
>> hour at the low end and $32.53 at the high end.
>>
>> If you want to be in this upper end of the pay scale, the highest paying
>> states on average are, Washington, Missouri, Alaska, Nevada, and Kentucky,
>> all of which pay their *tower climbers* well over $52,000 per year.
>> Washington has the highest pay scale out of all of these states. The
>> extreme conditions in Alaska prompt higher salaries, just be prepared
>> because storms in Alaska can come without warning. And, if it is 20 degrees
>> on the ground, it is likely to be below zero on the top of a tower.
>>
>> The lowest tower climber earnings come from Montana, Michigan, and West
>> Virginia which average $35,000 per year, which is still a good living
>> especially in states where there is a lower cost of living and people
>> qualified for certain fields are harder to come by."
>>
>> from:
>> https://www.towerclimber.com/tower-climber-salary-2/
>> 
>>
>> 
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:30 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller <
>> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> those guys are us, i think... lol
>>>
>>> 9 starting - after three months 11
>>> then increases after periodic reviews
>>>
>>> if they're doing tower work or overtime time and a half
>>> i think we have some guys making 13-15 now
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> *From:* Matt Hoppes
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, July 23, 2017 10:24 AM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Installer Wages
>>>
>>> Tower guys. Folks who program radios manage RF handle tower issues. Etc.
>>>
>>> On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:20 AM, Adair Winter 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> What do you mean by network techs? Tower guys and such?
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:19 AM, Matt Hoppes <
>>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>>
 How much are you paying your network techs then?

 On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:10 AM, Adair Winter 
 wrote:

 Starting with not much experience, $11/hr. everyone else makes
 $15-20/hr.

 On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Matt Hoppes <
 mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> What are you all paying your installers per hour?
>



 --

 Adair Winter
 VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
 Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 <(806)%20316-5071>
 C: 806.231.7180 <(806)%20231-7180>
 http://www.amarillowireless.net
 




>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Adair Winter
>>> VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
>>> Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 <(806)%20316-5071>
>>> C: 806.231.7180 <(806)%20231-7180>
>>> http://www.amarillowireless.net
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

Documentation on the Rocketdish? The port that faces down is v-pol, the
other is obviously h-pol. I've used them on ePMP SMs. The "horizontal"
on the radio goes to the vertical on the dish and vice versa. Most all
of these more modern radios and their software/drivers don't care if
it's backwards. And in fact, most can work in a mixed environment where
you have H/V on one side and -/+45 on the other. There are advantages to
slant in noisy and multipath environments.

On 7/23/2017 10:34 AM, David Coudron wrote:

We are just starting to install these. We are using the RocketDish
5G30. We have already learned a couple of things we didn’t expect:

1. When you unlock them, you need to select PTMP mode. There is a
question during the unlock process that wasn’t highly apparent,
and our installer missed it and selected PTP or it defaulted to
PTP, not sure which yet. Spent a lot of time trying to figure
out why it would only see PTP links. I am not sure the question
even pops up in the mobile app, we need to look at that again as
that is what the installer used to unlock it. We caught it after
unlocking another one from the web browser on a laptop.
2. We also spent quite a bit of time with the cable connections as
the connectors aren’t marked with polarity. After getting two
opposite answers on the polarity of the connectors from Mimosa,
the final answer was that connector 1=Horizontal, but it doesn’t
matter as the unit autocorrects for polarity. This was late on
Friday, we will be working with it again to confirm tomorrow. We
have been unable to find any documentation on the RocketDish, but
aren’t sure that using one connector on the dish versus another
for Horizontal matters if the C5c is really autocorrecting.
3. You need a pretty tall and heavy duty J-Pole as the bracket on the
back is pretty long between the two clamp points. Normal
J-Poles, even the heavy ones we are using aren’t long enough. We
are trying to find a better option for that.

We expect we will only use these in limited areas as we have been
having really good luck with the C5. Just installed a link at 3
miles and are getting RSSI of -68.

*David Coudron*

david.coud...@advantenon.com |*Mobile:
*612-991-7474

*Advantenon, Inc.
*cid:image001.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0cid:image002.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0cid:image003.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0cid:image004.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0

i...@advantenon.com |3500 Vicksburg Lane
N, Suite 315, Plymouth, MN
55447 |www.advantenon.com |*Phone:*800-704-4720 |*Local:
*612-454-1545

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
*Sent:* Saturday, July 22, 2017 8:55 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Mimosa C5c

Anyone out there using these? With what antennas?

Thanks.

-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Mimosa C5c

2017-07-23 Thread David Coudron

Thanks for the note on the UML, we were going to try and call them and see how 
much length there was above the bend.   This will save us some time.   We’ll 
take a look at the ds3000.

David Coudron
david.coud...@advantenon.com  |  Mobile: 
612-991-7474

Advantenon, Inc. [cid:image001.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0] 
   
[cid:image002.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0]    
[cid:image003.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0]    
[cid:image004.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0] 
i...@advantenon.com  |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, 
Suite 315, Plymouth, MN 55447  |  
www.advantenon.com  |  Phone: 800-704-4720  |  
Local: 612-454-1545

[cid:image005.jpg@01D303BB.469628D0]

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 11:49 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mimosa C5c

The UML one isn’t long enough.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adair Winter
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 9:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mimosa C5c

The ds3000 is probably one of the worst mounts I've ever used. Super soft and 
easy to crush. Might be ok with a support arm.

The UML that streakwave sells is much higher quality.

On Jul 23, 2017 10:43 AM, "Rory Conaway" 
> wrote:
The DS-3000 mount with at least 1 brace works well although 2 are recommended.  
There is another one called a striker which even stronger.   Also look at the 
KPPerformance antennas.   Kent Urweiller says they are better on noise than the 
LW antennas.  Mine just came in so I haven’t tested it yet.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of David Coudron
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 8:35 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mimosa C5c

We are just starting to install these.   We are using the RocketDish 5G30.   We 
have already learned a couple of things we didn’t expect:

  1.  When you unlock them, you need to select PTMP mode.   There is a question 
during the unlock process that wasn’t highly apparent, and our installer missed 
it and selected PTP or it defaulted to PTP, not sure which yet.   Spent a lot 
of time trying to figure out why it would only see PTP links.   I am not sure 
the question even pops up in the mobile app, we need to look at that again as 
that is what the installer used to unlock it.   We caught it after unlocking 
another one from the web browser on a laptop.
  2.  We also spent quite a bit of time with the cable connections as the 
connectors aren’t marked with polarity.  After getting two opposite answers on 
the polarity of the connectors from Mimosa, the final answer was that connector 
1=Horizontal, but it doesn’t matter as the unit autocorrects for polarity.   
This was late on Friday, we will be working with it again to confirm tomorrow.  
We have been unable to find any documentation on the RocketDish, but aren’t 
sure that using one connector on the dish versus another for Horizontal matters 
if the C5c is really autocorrecting.
  3.  You need a pretty tall and heavy duty J-Pole as the bracket on the back 
is pretty long between the two clamp points.   Normal J-Poles, even the heavy 
ones we are using aren’t long enough.   We are trying to find a better option 
for that.

We expect we will only use these in limited areas as we have been having really 
good luck with the C5.   Just installed a link at 3 miles and are getting RSSI 
of -68.


David Coudron
david.coud...@advantenon.com  |  Mobile: 
612-991-7474

Advantenon, Inc. [cid:image001.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0] 
   
[cid:image002.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0]    
[cid:image003.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0]    
[cid:image004.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0] 
i...@advantenon.com  |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, 
Suite 315, Plymouth, MN 55447  |  
www.advantenon.com  |  Phone: 
800-704-4720  |  Local: 612-454-1545

[cid:image015.jpg@01D303BB.468E60A0]

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 8:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Mimosa C5c

Anyone out there using these?  With what antennas?

Thanks.

-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Complaining Employees

2017-07-23 Thread Seth Mattinen


On 7/23/17 9:58 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
I am guessing 568a will probably work with most things these days, will 
it not?


I'm pretty sure the only reason to use A is to maintain the same order 
you'd use with 25 pair on a 66 block, minus slate.


Otherwise I've only ever used B with Ethernet.

~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] Complaining Employees

2017-07-23 Thread Seth Mattinen


On 7/23/17 8:55 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:


Meanwhile I have a college art student who works for me in the summer. 
Not a lick of technical knowledge, but I tell her to go run a cable and 
it's run neat and proper.


I tell her to go spray weeds and they are all sprayed and dead.

I tell her to put things in a rack and while perhaps a router might be 
below a switch in a way I wouldn't have installed it - everything is 
plugged in, right side up and on when I'm told the task is finished.





That's clearly the difference between someone with a clue and common 
sense vs. the other guy that only has excuses. I'm not entirely 
convinced clue can be taught.


~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] Complaining Employees

I am guessing 568a will probably work with most things these days, will it not? 
 Been forever since I made a crossover cable or though about whether or not 
something was DTE or DCE.

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 10:09 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Complaining Employees

Like i said about retirees, i have my 74 year old dad working with me now, we 
work til we run out of daylight, he takes the tasks and runs with them, i quit 
hovering, and we get things done. I told him id print out a 568b pinout for him 
to start doing ends, he caught the fact i frinted 568a by mistake before even 
starting. Imagine the disaster if his attention to detail wasnt there. 

I have to make sure the other guy is busy when i use my dad, so i do that. The 
other guy has constant excuses, never fully completes tasks, flat out lies 
about things and never takes ownership of mistakes, its always someone elses 
fault. Counselling has failed, providing all brand new tools has failed. Its at 
a point of acceptance now that it is what it is.
Ive watched over the years as new guys come in the bad employees have poisoned 
them and turned good workers into trash. As employees have moved on, ive 
advised the boss to just not replace them on the bad apple principle. Ive got 
24 hours and 7 days, every week, so o can bring in my non employee contractors 
like my old man and get things done

If you have other employees, this guy sounds like hes breeding them stress if 
its making more work for them. They will ultimately respond. Some might quit, 
some might start underperforming, some might turn to drinking when they get 
home (a staff drunk is problematic, this i know, im that guy), they may even 
begin undermining your operation. There is alot of consequense to not bringing 
this to resolution promptly, one way or another

On Jul 23, 2017 10:55 AM, "Matt Hoppes"  
wrote:

  It's a combination of 2 and 3. The problem is it's never the same issue 
twice. So in regards to 3. Every issue is a brand new problem that I instruct 
on and I'm assured will never happen again. 

  I don't think we've really had any repeats. But every project just has stuff 
being done that's completely not even possibly the right way to do it. 

  I'm babysitting instead of supervising. 

  Meanwhile I have a college art student who works for me in the summer. Not a 
lick of technical knowledge, but I tell her to go run a cable and it's run neat 
and proper. 

  I tell her to go spray weeds and they are all sprayed and dead. 

  I tell her to put things in a rack and while perhaps a router might be below 
a switch in a way I wouldn't have installed it - everything is plugged in, 
right side up and on when I'm told the task is finished. 

  On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:41 AM, Steve Jones  wrote:

When he has an excuse, is it an excuse where he blames an outside factor 
like "you didnt show me" or "thats a low quality tool", a lie like "i didnt 
knowni was supposed to do that" when you gave clear instructions, or is it a 
reason, coupled with ownership of the failure like "i didnt accomplish that 
task because i forgot to do X, im not sure why i forgot X, but i wont in the 
future" 

The first is 50/50, make sure youre not the cause of the failures, if youre 
not, then retrain and counsel, then fire.
If its the second, fire immediately, thats the worst thing to have, a liar, 
thats not fixable by you. Like others said, it might be the catalyst for change.
If its the third, and he recognizes the problem is of his own design, that 
may be wholely fixable, thats a person looking to be molded, maybe put him 
under your wing for a period if its feasible with a deadline for resolution.

Make sure hes aware of your dissatisfaction though, thats a fair thing to 
do.
When i used to do alot of home improvement stuff, the first thing i told 
guys i had working for me was, if i fire you, call me the next day to make sure 
it wasnt my temper that fired you.  Apply that here, make sure youre not just 
more mad than you need to be

On Jul 23, 2017 9:59 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  
wrote:

  sometimes you have to weigh the good and the bad.  i guess we do that a 
lot.  each of our guys has their strengths and weaknesses. sometimes we do have 
to bite our lip and try not to fire said person for this reason or that reason 
- but usually it is me and i just need to let it goi'm over it in a day or 
so.

  i guess it has a lot to do with daily relationships among people - work 
or not.  people are people.  they are who they are.  most can't be changed.  we 
need to learn to accept people for who they are - and employ their strengths 
where they are available and overlook the weaknesses.

  I'd take what Chuck Mccown says to heart - - he's employed hundreds of 
people.  But I've employed like 10.  And although we are large enough we

Re: [AFMUG] Mimosa C5c

The UML one isn’t long enough.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adair Winter
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 9:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mimosa C5c

The ds3000 is probably one of the worst mounts I've ever used. Super soft and 
easy to crush. Might be ok with a support arm.

The UML that streakwave sells is much higher quality.

On Jul 23, 2017 10:43 AM, "Rory Conaway" 
> wrote:
The DS-3000 mount with at least 1 brace works well although 2 are recommended.  
There is another one called a striker which even stronger.   Also look at the 
KPPerformance antennas.   Kent Urweiller says they are better on noise than the 
LW antennas.  Mine just came in so I haven’t tested it yet.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of David Coudron
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 8:35 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mimosa C5c

We are just starting to install these.   We are using the RocketDish 5G30.   We 
have already learned a couple of things we didn’t expect:

  1.  When you unlock them, you need to select PTMP mode.   There is a question 
during the unlock process that wasn’t highly apparent, and our installer missed 
it and selected PTP or it defaulted to PTP, not sure which yet.   Spent a lot 
of time trying to figure out why it would only see PTP links.   I am not sure 
the question even pops up in the mobile app, we need to look at that again as 
that is what the installer used to unlock it.   We caught it after unlocking 
another one from the web browser on a laptop.
  2.  We also spent quite a bit of time with the cable connections as the 
connectors aren’t marked with polarity.  After getting two opposite answers on 
the polarity of the connectors from Mimosa, the final answer was that connector 
1=Horizontal, but it doesn’t matter as the unit autocorrects for polarity.   
This was late on Friday, we will be working with it again to confirm tomorrow.  
We have been unable to find any documentation on the RocketDish, but aren’t 
sure that using one connector on the dish versus another for Horizontal matters 
if the C5c is really autocorrecting.
  3.  You need a pretty tall and heavy duty J-Pole as the bracket on the back 
is pretty long between the two clamp points.   Normal J-Poles, even the heavy 
ones we are using aren’t long enough.   We are trying to find a better option 
for that.

We expect we will only use these in limited areas as we have been having really 
good luck with the C5.   Just installed a link at 3 miles and are getting RSSI 
of -68.

David Coudron
david.coud...@advantenon.com  |  Mobile: 
612-991-7474

Advantenon, Inc. [cid:image001.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0] 

[cid:image002.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0]    
[cid:image003.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0]    
[cid:image004.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0] 
i...@advantenon.com  |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, 
Suite 315, Plymouth, MN 55447  |  
www.advantenon.com  |  Phone: 
800-704-4720  |  Local: 612-454-1545

[cid:image005.jpg@01D30398.F43A2540]

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 8:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Mimosa C5c

Anyone out there using these?  With what antennas?

Thanks.

-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Installer Wages

That’s what I was making back in 1982 for similar work  
I guess that is one good thing about being a boomer

From: Jeremy 
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 9:39 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Wages

My competitors are all starting them at $12/hr if that helps.  I did that job 
for years and years.  I believe that employees need a solid livable wage if you 
want them to mature and stay with the company.  I also want them to really love 
their job, and feel like they are an important asset to this company.  I can't 
imagine doing this job for $12/hr...so how can I expect them to?  MY wages are 
in no way typical for my area, but I have extremely high demands and I expect a 
lot in performance.

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 9:36 AM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

  "While it is a dangerous job, it also pays well. Their mean annual wage is 
$44,250. The 10% that made the lowest earned around $26,200 per year, according 
to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The highest paid percentage earn more than 
$67,000 per year. Hourly this breaks down into $12.60 per hour at the low end 
and $32.53 at the high end.
  If you want to be in this upper end of the pay scale, the highest paying 
states on average are, Washington, Missouri, Alaska, Nevada, and Kentucky, all 
of which pay their tower climbers well over $52,000 per year. Washington has 
the highest pay scale out of all of these states. The extreme conditions in 
Alaska prompt higher salaries, just be prepared because storms in Alaska can 
come without warning. And, if it is 20 degrees on the ground, it is likely to 
be below zero on the top of a tower.

  The lowest tower climber earnings come from Montana, Michigan, and West 
Virginia which average $35,000 per year, which is still a good living 
especially in states where there is a lower cost of living and people qualified 
for certain fields are harder to come by."

  from: https://www.towerclimber.com/tower-climber-salary-2/ 

  On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:30 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller 
 wrote:

those guys are us, i think... lol

9 starting - after three months 11
then increases after periodic reviews

if they're doing tower work or overtime time and a half
i think we have some guys making 13-15 now

  - Original Message - 
  From: Matt Hoppes 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 10:24 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Wages

  Tower guys. Folks who program radios manage RF handle tower issues. Etc. 

  On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:20 AM, Adair Winter  
wrote:

What do you mean by network techs? Tower guys and such?

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:19 AM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:

  How much are you paying your network techs then?

  On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:10 AM, Adair Winter 
 wrote:

Starting with not much experience, $11/hr. everyone else makes 
$15-20/hr.

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:

  What are you all paying your installers per hour?

-- 

Adair Winter
VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071
C: 806.231.7180
http://www.amarillowireless.net

-- 

Adair Winter
VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071
C: 806.231.7180
http://www.amarillowireless.net

Re: [AFMUG] Complaining Employees

2017-07-23 Thread Steve Jones

Like i said about retirees, i have my 74 year old dad working with me now,
we work til we run out of daylight, he takes the tasks and runs with them,
i quit hovering, and we get things done. I told him id print out a 568b
pinout for him to start doing ends, he caught the fact i frinted 568a by
mistake before even starting. Imagine the disaster if his attention to
detail wasnt there.

I have to make sure the other guy is busy when i use my dad, so i do that.
The other guy has constant excuses, never fully completes tasks, flat out
lies about things and never takes ownership of mistakes, its always someone
elses fault. Counselling has failed, providing all brand new tools has
failed. Its at a point of acceptance now that it is what it is.
Ive watched over the years as new guys come in the bad employees have
poisoned them and turned good workers into trash. As employees have moved
on, ive advised the boss to just not replace them on the bad apple
principle. Ive got 24 hours and 7 days, every week, so o can bring in my
non employee contractors like my old man and get things done

If you have other employees, this guy sounds like hes breeding them stress
if its making more work for them. They will ultimately respond. Some might
quit, some might start underperforming, some might turn to drinking when
they get home (a staff drunk is problematic, this i know, im that guy),
they may even begin undermining your operation. There is alot of
consequense to not bringing this to resolution promptly, one way or another

On Jul 23, 2017 10:55 AM, "Matt Hoppes" 
wrote:

> It's a combination of 2 and 3. The problem is it's never the same issue
> twice. So in regards to 3. Every issue is a brand new problem that I
> instruct on and I'm assured will never happen again.
>
> I don't think we've really had any repeats. But every project just has
> stuff being done that's completely not even possibly the right way to do
> it.
>
> I'm babysitting instead of supervising.
>
> Meanwhile I have a college art student who works for me in the summer. Not
> a lick of technical knowledge, but I tell her to go run a cable and it's
> run neat and proper.
>
> I tell her to go spray weeds and they are all sprayed and dead.
>
> I tell her to put things in a rack and while perhaps a router might be
> below a switch in a way I wouldn't have installed it - everything is
> plugged in, right side up and on when I'm told the task is finished.
>
> On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:41 AM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> When he has an excuse, is it an excuse where he blames an outside factor
> like "you didnt show me" or "thats a low quality tool", a lie like "i didnt
> knowni was supposed to do that" when you gave clear instructions, or is it
> a reason, coupled with ownership of the failure like "i didnt accomplish
> that task because i forgot to do X, im not sure why i forgot X, but i wont
> in the future"
>
> The first is 50/50, make sure youre not the cause of the failures, if
> youre not, then retrain and counsel, then fire.
> If its the second, fire immediately, thats the worst thing to have, a
> liar, thats not fixable by you. Like others said, it might be the catalyst
> for change.
> If its the third, and he recognizes the problem is of his own design, that
> may be wholely fixable, thats a person looking to be molded, maybe put him
> under your wing for a period if its feasible with a deadline for resolution.
>
> Make sure hes aware of your dissatisfaction though, thats a fair thing to
> do.
> When i used to do alot of home improvement stuff, the first thing i told
> guys i had working for me was, if i fire you, call me the next day to make
> sure it wasnt my temper that fired you.  Apply that here, make sure youre
> not just more mad than you need to be
>
> On Jul 23, 2017 9:59 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> sometimes you have to weigh the good and the bad.  i guess we do that a
>> lot.  each of our guys has their strengths and weaknesses. sometimes we do
>> have to bite our lip and try not to fire said person for this reason or
>> that reason - but usually it is me and i just need to let it goi'm over
>> it in a day or so.
>>
>> i guess it has a lot to do with daily relationships among people - work
>> or not.  people are people.  they are who they are.  most can't be
>> changed.  we need to learn to accept people for who they are - and employ
>> their strengths where they are available and overlook the weaknesses.
>>
>> I'd take what Chuck Mccown says to heart - - he's employed hundreds of
>> people.  But I've employed like 10.  And although we are large enough we
>> could probably lose one or two - I certainly wouldn't want to.
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Matt Hoppes 
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Sunday, July 23, 2017 6:27 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Complaining Employees
>>
>> And this is

Re: [AFMUG] Mimosa C5c

The ds3000 is probably one of the worst mounts I've ever used. Super soft
and easy to crush. Might be ok with a support arm.

The UML that streakwave sells is much higher quality.

On Jul 23, 2017 10:43 AM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

> The DS-3000 mount with at least 1 brace works well although 2 are
> recommended.  There is another one called a striker which even stronger.
>  Also look at the KPPerformance antennas.   Kent Urweiller says they are
> better on noise than the LW antennas.  Mine just came in so I haven’t
> tested it yet.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *David Coudron
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 23, 2017 8:35 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mimosa C5c
>
>
>
> We are just starting to install these.   We are using the RocketDish
> 5G30.   We have already learned a couple of things we didn’t expect:
>
>1. When you unlock them, you need to select PTMP mode.   There is a
>question during the unlock process that wasn’t highly apparent, and our
>installer missed it and selected PTP or it defaulted to PTP, not sure which
>yet.   Spent a lot of time trying to figure out why it would only see PTP
>links.   I am not sure the question even pops up in the mobile app, we need
>to look at that again as that is what the installer used to unlock it.   We
>caught it after unlocking another one from the web browser on a laptop.
>2. We also spent quite a bit of time with the cable connections as the
>connectors aren’t marked with polarity.  After getting two opposite answers
>on the polarity of the connectors from Mimosa, the final answer was that
>connector 1=Horizontal, but it doesn’t matter as the unit autocorrects for
>polarity.   This was late on Friday, we will be working with it again to
>confirm tomorrow.  We have been unable to find any documentation on the
>RocketDish, but aren’t sure that using one connector on the dish versus
>another for Horizontal matters if the C5c is really autocorrecting.
>3. You need a pretty tall and heavy duty J-Pole as the bracket on the
>back is pretty long between the two clamp points.   Normal J-Poles, even
>the heavy ones we are using aren’t long enough.   We are trying to find a
>better option for that.
>
>
>
> We expect we will only use these in limited areas as we have been having
> really good luck with the C5.   Just installed a link at 3 miles and are
> getting RSSI of -68.
>
>
>
>
>
> *David Coudron*
>
> david.coud...@advantenon.com  |  *Mobile: *612-991-7474 <(612)%20991-7474>
>
>
>
> *Advantenon, Inc.  *   [image: cid:image001.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0]
>   [image:
> cid:image002.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0]   
> [image:
> cid:image003.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0]   
> [image:
> cid:image004.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0] 
>
> i...@advantenon.com  |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, Suite 315, Plymouth, MN
> 55447  |  www.advantenon.com  |  *Phone:* 800-704-4720 <(800)%20704-4720>
>  |  *Local: *612-454-1545 <(612)%20454-1545>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 22, 2017 8:55 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Mimosa C5c
>
>
>
> Anyone out there using these?  With what antennas?
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> -Jason
>

Re: [AFMUG] Installer Wages

2017-07-23 Thread Steve Jones

I worked for a company once that did a cool thing, they started you at a
fairly low wage (like 7 at the time, i think minimum wage was in the 5 or 6
dollar range) they had the regular 30 60 90 day performance raises with am
annual raise, and yearly profit sharing bonus. But they had .25 raises you
could earn for various things that required a little motivation and were
designed to make you take ownership. One was to be able to identify all the
motivational posters in the plant, another was to be able to tell the
history of the company, all fairly easy, like doing Aplus, but weeded out
the non motivated employees. They also offered one off 500 dollar bonuses
for any successful ideas that increased productivity in a measurable way.
Wages are earned as should the rate behind those raises.
Here the boss starts low but gives good raises for a while before it
stagnates. But we do have good insurance that was worth about 24k a couple
years ago when i priced similar coverage, thats an important "wage" factor
to account for when discussing rate of pay with prospective employees,
especially in the current insurance environment.

On Jul 23, 2017 10:39 AM, "Jeremy"  wrote:

> My competitors are all starting them at $12/hr if that helps.  I did that
> job for years and years.  I believe that employees need a solid livable
> wage if you want them to mature and stay with the company.  I also want
> them to really love their job, and feel like they are an important asset to
> this company.  I can't imagine doing this job for $12/hr...so how can I
> expect them to?  MY wages are in no way typical for my area, but I have
> extremely high demands and I expect a lot in performance.
>
> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 9:36 AM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
>> "While it is a dangerous job, it also pays well. Their mean annual wage
>> is $44,250. The 10% that made the lowest earned around $26,200 per year,
>> according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The highest paid percentage
>> earn more than $67,000 per year. Hourly this breaks down into $12.60 per
>> hour at the low end and $32.53 at the high end.
>>
>> If you want to be in this upper end of the pay scale, the highest paying
>> states on average are, Washington, Missouri, Alaska, Nevada, and Kentucky,
>> all of which pay their *tower climbers* well over $52,000 per year.
>> Washington has the highest pay scale out of all of these states. The
>> extreme conditions in Alaska prompt higher salaries, just be prepared
>> because storms in Alaska can come without warning. And, if it is 20 degrees
>> on the ground, it is likely to be below zero on the top of a tower.
>>
>> The lowest tower climber earnings come from Montana, Michigan, and West
>> Virginia which average $35,000 per year, which is still a good living
>> especially in states where there is a lower cost of living and people
>> qualified for certain fields are harder to come by."
>>
>> from:
>> https://www.towerclimber.com/tower-climber-salary-2/
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:30 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller <
>> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> those guys are us, i think... lol
>>>
>>> 9 starting - after three months 11
>>> then increases after periodic reviews
>>>
>>> if they're doing tower work or overtime time and a half
>>> i think we have some guys making 13-15 now
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> *From:* Matt Hoppes 
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, July 23, 2017 10:24 AM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Installer Wages
>>>
>>> Tower guys. Folks who program radios manage RF handle tower issues. Etc.
>>>
>>> On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:20 AM, Adair Winter 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> What do you mean by network techs? Tower guys and such?
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:19 AM, Matt Hoppes <
>>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>>
 How much are you paying your network techs then?

 On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:10 AM, Adair Winter 
 wrote:

 Starting with not much experience, $11/hr. everyone else makes
 $15-20/hr.

 On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Matt Hoppes <
 mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> What are you all paying your installers per hour?
>



 --

 Adair Winter
 VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
 Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 <(806)%20316-5071>
 C: 806.231.7180 <(806)%20231-7180>
 http://www.amarillowireless.net
 



>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Adair Winter
>>> VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
>>> Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 <(806)%20316-5071>
>>> C: 806.231.7180 <(806)%20231-7180>
>>> http://www.amarillowireless.net
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Complaining Employees

It's a combination of 2 and 3. The problem is it's never the same issue twice. 
So in regards to 3. Every issue is a brand new problem that I instruct on and 
I'm assured will never happen again. 

I don't think we've really had any repeats. But every project just has stuff 
being done that's completely not even possibly the right way to do it. 

I'm babysitting instead of supervising. 

Meanwhile I have a college art student who works for me in the summer. Not a 
lick of technical knowledge, but I tell her to go run a cable and it's run neat 
and proper. 

I tell her to go spray weeds and they are all sprayed and dead. 

I tell her to put things in a rack and while perhaps a router might be below a 
switch in a way I wouldn't have installed it - everything is plugged in, right 
side up and on when I'm told the task is finished. 

> On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:41 AM, Steve Jones  wrote:
> 
> When he has an excuse, is it an excuse where he blames an outside factor like 
> "you didnt show me" or "thats a low quality tool", a lie like "i didnt knowni 
> was supposed to do that" when you gave clear instructions, or is it a reason, 
> coupled with ownership of the failure like "i didnt accomplish that task 
> because i forgot to do X, im not sure why i forgot X, but i wont in the 
> future"
> 
> The first is 50/50, make sure youre not the cause of the failures, if youre 
> not, then retrain and counsel, then fire.
> If its the second, fire immediately, thats the worst thing to have, a liar, 
> thats not fixable by you. Like others said, it might be the catalyst for 
> change.
> If its the third, and he recognizes the problem is of his own design, that 
> may be wholely fixable, thats a person looking to be molded, maybe put him 
> under your wing for a period if its feasible with a deadline for resolution.
> 
> Make sure hes aware of your dissatisfaction though, thats a fair thing to do.
> When i used to do alot of home improvement stuff, the first thing i told guys 
> i had working for me was, if i fire you, call me the next day to make sure it 
> wasnt my temper that fired you.  Apply that here, make sure youre not just 
> more mad than you need to be
> 
>> On Jul 23, 2017 9:59 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  
>> wrote:
>>  
>> sometimes you have to weigh the good and the bad.  i guess we do that a lot. 
>>  each of our guys has their strengths and weaknesses. sometimes we do have 
>> to bite our lip and try not to fire said person for this reason or that 
>> reason - but usually it is me and i just need to let it goi'm over it in 
>> a day or so.
>>  
>> i guess it has a lot to do with daily relationships among people - work or 
>> not.  people are people.  they are who they are.  most can't be changed.  we 
>> need to learn to accept people for who they are - and employ their strengths 
>> where they are available and overlook the weaknesses.
>>  
>> I'd take what Chuck Mccown says to heart - - he's employed hundreds of 
>> people.  But I've employed like 10.  And although we are large enough we 
>> could probably lose one or two - I certainly wouldn't want to.
>>  
>>  
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Matt Hoppes
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 6:27 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Complaining Employees
>> 
>> And this is where things get weird and why he's still around. 
>> 
>> The answer to these questions is - yes. 
>> 
>> He will respond to an outage regardless of where he is or what he's doing. 
>> 
>> He has responded to problems on days off. 
>> 
>> He honestly seems like he WANTS to do things. But possibly lacks the
>> ability to do things. 
>> 
>> Some things can be taught. Others can't. I'm just struggling to make sure 
>> I'm making the right decision. 
>> 
>>> On Jul 22, 2017, at 11:26 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:
>>> 
>>> In all seriousness, from a guy who takes his job way too serious... not 
>>>  only is a problematic employee an issue in the normal sense to the 
>>> company, but he qill cost you good employees, the dedicated kind who will 
>>> give you their blood in a pinch.
>>> Do you think the problematic guy will leave his kids birthday party to  
>>> come get ten of your customers up? . he wont
>>> Do you think he will spend his spare time discussing industry issues, 
>>> maintain a handful of social media sock account to ensure he has access to 
>>> trending issues he wont
>>> Will he work late on the day hes supposed to leave on a vacation to make 
>>> sure everything is good while hes gone ... he wont.
>>> Will he own issues and show up after hours to come fix them because its his 
>>> fault... he wont
>>> I know the guy youre talking about. Not by name, or face, but hes common, 
>>> and he costs alot of companiea their growth. Do you think at the end of the 
>>> day he cares he doesnt.
>>> 
>>> The point is, the guys who will do the above, unless theyre ignorant 
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Installer Wages

i could certainly see us getting to a "special projects" team.
right now we're redirecting field personnel at least one day a week to 
infrastructure / tower projects

  - Original Message - 
  From: Adair Winter 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 10:39 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Wages

  We have this split up.
  Our L2 support guys program all the radios for the guys. (generally) and one 
of them also does some RF planning and sub management. I.E, if we put a new 
sector on a tower, he will migrate users over to it. etc.  L2 support makes 
15-19/hr currently I believe.

  Tower crew is really also a  "construction" crew, they do everything from dig 
trenches to climb towers, anything that needs to be done in the field to 
support a pop or tower. I think we are in the $16-21/hr range with them. Their 
supervisor makes more than that.

  We have a long time employee who is salary who helps me manage the sectors 
and plays with all new hardware before it is deployed. He's also our "special 
projects guy" He's in the $50k/yr range.

  On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:

Tower guys. Folks who program radios manage RF handle tower issues. Etc. 

On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:20 AM, Adair Winter  
wrote:

  What do you mean by network techs? Tower guys and such?

  On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:19 AM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:

How much are you paying your network techs then?

On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:10 AM, Adair Winter 
 wrote:

  Starting with not much experience, $11/hr. everyone else makes 
$15-20/hr.

  On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:

What are you all paying your installers per hour?

  -- 

  Adair Winter
  VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
  Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071
  C: 806.231.7180
  http://www.amarillowireless.net

  -- 

  Adair Winter
  VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
  Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071
  C: 806.231.7180
  http://www.amarillowireless.net

  -- 

  Adair Winter
  VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
  Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071
  C: 806.231.7180
  http://www.amarillowireless.net

Re: [AFMUG] Mimosa C5c

The DS-3000 mount with at least 1 brace works well although 2 are recommended.  
There is another one called a striker which even stronger.   Also look at the 
KPPerformance antennas.   Kent Urweiller says they are better on noise than the 
LW antennas.  Mine just came in so I haven’t tested it yet.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of David Coudron
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 8:35 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mimosa C5c

We are just starting to install these.   We are using the RocketDish 5G30.   We 
have already learned a couple of things we didn’t expect:

  1.  When you unlock them, you need to select PTMP mode.   There is a question 
during the unlock process that wasn’t highly apparent, and our installer missed 
it and selected PTP or it defaulted to PTP, not sure which yet.   Spent a lot 
of time trying to figure out why it would only see PTP links.   I am not sure 
the question even pops up in the mobile app, we need to look at that again as 
that is what the installer used to unlock it.   We caught it after unlocking 
another one from the web browser on a laptop.
  2.  We also spent quite a bit of time with the cable connections as the 
connectors aren’t marked with polarity.  After getting two opposite answers on 
the polarity of the connectors from Mimosa, the final answer was that connector 
1=Horizontal, but it doesn’t matter as the unit autocorrects for polarity.   
This was late on Friday, we will be working with it again to confirm tomorrow.  
We have been unable to find any documentation on the RocketDish, but aren’t 
sure that using one connector on the dish versus another for Horizontal matters 
if the C5c is really autocorrecting.
  3.  You need a pretty tall and heavy duty J-Pole as the bracket on the back 
is pretty long between the two clamp points.   Normal J-Poles, even the heavy 
ones we are using aren’t long enough.   We are trying to find a better option 
for that.

We expect we will only use these in limited areas as we have been having really 
good luck with the C5.   Just installed a link at 3 miles and are getting RSSI 
of -68.

David Coudron
david.coud...@advantenon.com  |  Mobile: 
612-991-7474

Advantenon, Inc. [cid:image001.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0] 

[cid:image002.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0]    
[cid:image003.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0]    
[cid:image004.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0] 
i...@advantenon.com  |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, 
Suite 315, Plymouth, MN 55447  |  
www.advantenon.com  |  Phone: 800-704-4720  |  
Local: 612-454-1545

[cid:image005.jpg@01D3038F.C3B593E0]

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 8:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Mimosa C5c

Anyone out there using these?  With what antennas?

Thanks.

-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Complaining Employees

2017-07-23 Thread Steve Jones

When he has an excuse, is it an excuse where he blames an outside factor
like "you didnt show me" or "thats a low quality tool", a lie like "i didnt
knowni was supposed to do that" when you gave clear instructions, or is it
a reason, coupled with ownership of the failure like "i didnt accomplish
that task because i forgot to do X, im not sure why i forgot X, but i wont
in the future"

The first is 50/50, make sure youre not the cause of the failures, if youre
not, then retrain and counsel, then fire.
If its the second, fire immediately, thats the worst thing to have, a liar,
thats not fixable by you. Like others said, it might be the catalyst for
change.
If its the third, and he recognizes the problem is of his own design, that
may be wholely fixable, thats a person looking to be molded, maybe put him
under your wing for a period if its feasible with a deadline for resolution.

Make sure hes aware of your dissatisfaction though, thats a fair thing to
do.
When i used to do alot of home improvement stuff, the first thing i told
guys i had working for me was, if i fire you, call me the next day to make
sure it wasnt my temper that fired you.  Apply that here, make sure youre
not just more mad than you need to be

On Jul 23, 2017 9:59 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
wrote:

>
> sometimes you have to weigh the good and the bad.  i guess we do that a
> lot.  each of our guys has their strengths and weaknesses. sometimes we do
> have to bite our lip and try not to fire said person for this reason or
> that reason - but usually it is me and i just need to let it goi'm over
> it in a day or so.
>
> i guess it has a lot to do with daily relationships among people - work or
> not.  people are people.  they are who they are.  most can't be changed.
> we need to learn to accept people for who they are - and employ their
> strengths where they are available and overlook the weaknesses.
>
> I'd take what Chuck Mccown says to heart - - he's employed hundreds of
> people.  But I've employed like 10.  And although we are large enough we
> could probably lose one or two - I certainly wouldn't want to.
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Matt Hoppes 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 23, 2017 6:27 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Complaining Employees
>
> And this is where things get weird and why he's still around.
>
> The answer to these questions is - yes.
>
> He will respond to an outage regardless of where he is or what he's doing.
>
> He has responded to problems on days off.
>
> He honestly seems like he WANTS to do things. But possibly lacks the
> ability to do things.
>
> Some things can be taught. Others can't. I'm just struggling to make sure
> I'm making the right decision.
>
> On Jul 22, 2017, at 11:26 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> In all seriousness, from a guy who takes his job way too serious... not
> only is a problematic employee an issue in the normal sense to the company,
> but he qill cost you good employees, the dedicated kind who will give you
> their blood in a pinch.
> Do you think the problematic guy will leave his kids birthday party to
> come get ten of your customers up? . he wont
> Do you think he will spend his spare time discussing industry issues,
> maintain a handful of social media sock account to ensure he has access to
> trending issues he wont
> Will he work late on the day hes supposed to leave on a vacation to make
> sure everything is good while hes gone ... he wont.
> Will he own issues and show up after hours to come fix them because its
> his fault... he wont
> I know the guy youre talking about. Not by name, or face, but hes common,
> and he costs alot of companiea their growth. Do you think at the end of the
> day he cares he doesnt.
>
> The point is, the guys who will do the above, unless theyre ignorant
> gluttons for punishment who dont have it in them to walk away, will walk
> away while youre cupping this guys balls seriously, dont cup the balls.
> This is how workplace shootings ignite. Grow your company cull the herd.
>
> On Jul 22, 2017 9:59 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
> There was an fairly young employee at the wisp which was a general screw
> up.   After no end of second chances with no real change,  they finally
> canned him.  This was several years ago.
>
> One day a while back I was down at the wisp and this employee is working
> for the wisp again.   Apparently after getting fired,  he spent a couple
> years growing up.  I've even heard of him chastising another installer for
> some of the crap he used to pull.
>
> My point is that sometimes getting fired is a better wake up call than
> giving an employee a second chance
>
> On Jul 22, 2017 8:16 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>
>> How do you gain wisdom without failure?
>>
>> We can try to learn from others, but those lessons are far

Re: [AFMUG] Installer Wages

We have this split up.
Our L2 support guys program all the radios for the guys. (generally) and
one of them also does some RF planning and sub management. I.E, if we put a
new sector on a tower, he will migrate users over to it. etc.  L2 support
makes 15-19/hr currently I believe.

Tower crew is really also a  "construction" crew, they do everything from
dig trenches to climb towers, anything that needs to be done in the field
to support a pop or tower. I think we are in the $16-21/hr range with them.
Their supervisor makes more than that.

We have a long time employee who is salary who helps me manage the sectors
and plays with all new hardware before it is deployed. He's also our
"special projects guy" He's in the $50k/yr range.

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> Tower guys. Folks who program radios manage RF handle tower issues. Etc.
>
> On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:20 AM, Adair Winter 
> wrote:
>
> What do you mean by network techs? Tower guys and such?
>
> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:19 AM, Matt Hoppes  rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> How much are you paying your network techs then?
>>
>> On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:10 AM, Adair Winter 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Starting with not much experience, $11/hr. everyone else makes $15-20/hr.
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Matt Hoppes <
>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>
>>> What are you all paying your installers per hour?
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Adair Winter
>> VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
>> Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 <(806)%20316-5071>
>> C: 806.231.7180 <(806)%20231-7180>
>> http://www.amarillowireless.net
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Adair Winter
> VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
> Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 <(806)%20316-5071>
> C: 806.231.7180 <(806)%20231-7180>
> http://www.amarillowireless.net
> 
>
>
>

-- 

Adair Winter
VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071
C: 806.231.7180
http://www.amarillowireless.net

Re: [AFMUG] Installer Wages

2017-07-23 Thread Jeremy

My competitors are all starting them at $12/hr if that helps.  I did that
job for years and years.  I believe that employees need a solid livable
wage if you want them to mature and stay with the company.  I also want
them to really love their job, and feel like they are an important asset to
this company.  I can't imagine doing this job for $12/hr...so how can I
expect them to?  MY wages are in no way typical for my area, but I have
extremely high demands and I expect a lot in performance.

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 9:36 AM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> "While it is a dangerous job, it also pays well. Their mean annual wage
> is $44,250. The 10% that made the lowest earned around $26,200 per year,
> according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The highest paid percentage
> earn more than $67,000 per year. Hourly this breaks down into $12.60 per
> hour at the low end and $32.53 at the high end.
>
> If you want to be in this upper end of the pay scale, the highest paying
> states on average are, Washington, Missouri, Alaska, Nevada, and Kentucky,
> all of which pay their *tower climbers* well over $52,000 per year.
> Washington has the highest pay scale out of all of these states. The
> extreme conditions in Alaska prompt higher salaries, just be prepared
> because storms in Alaska can come without warning. And, if it is 20 degrees
> on the ground, it is likely to be below zero on the top of a tower.
>
> The lowest tower climber earnings come from Montana, Michigan, and West
> Virginia which average $35,000 per year, which is still a good living
> especially in states where there is a lower cost of living and people
> qualified for certain fields are harder to come by."
>
> from:
> https://www.towerclimber.com/tower-climber-salary-2/
>
> 
>
> 
>
> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:30 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller <
> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> those guys are us, i think... lol
>>
>> 9 starting - after three months 11
>> then increases after periodic reviews
>>
>> if they're doing tower work or overtime time and a half
>> i think we have some guys making 13-15 now
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Matt Hoppes 
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Sunday, July 23, 2017 10:24 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Installer Wages
>>
>> Tower guys. Folks who program radios manage RF handle tower issues. Etc.
>>
>> On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:20 AM, Adair Winter 
>> wrote:
>>
>> What do you mean by network techs? Tower guys and such?
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:19 AM, Matt Hoppes <
>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>
>>> How much are you paying your network techs then?
>>>
>>> On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:10 AM, Adair Winter 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Starting with not much experience, $11/hr. everyone else makes $15-20/hr.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Matt Hoppes <
>>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>>
 What are you all paying your installers per hour?

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Adair Winter
>>> VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
>>> Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 <(806)%20316-5071>
>>> C: 806.231.7180 <(806)%20231-7180>
>>> http://www.amarillowireless.net
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Adair Winter
>> VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
>> Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 <(806)%20316-5071>
>> C: 806.231.7180 <(806)%20231-7180>
>> http://www.amarillowireless.net
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Installer Wages

"While it is a dangerous job, it also pays well. Their mean annual wage is
$44,250. The 10% that made the lowest earned around $26,200 per year,
according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The highest paid percentage
earn more than $67,000 per year. Hourly this breaks down into $12.60 per
hour at the low end and $32.53 at the high end.

If you want to be in this upper end of the pay scale, the highest paying
states on average are, Washington, Missouri, Alaska, Nevada, and Kentucky,
all of which pay their *tower climbers* well over $52,000 per year.
Washington has the highest pay scale out of all of these states. The
extreme conditions in Alaska prompt higher salaries, just be prepared
because storms in Alaska can come without warning. And, if it is 20 degrees
on the ground, it is likely to be below zero on the top of a tower.

The lowest tower climber earnings come from Montana, Michigan, and West
Virginia which average $35,000 per year, which is still a good living
especially in states where there is a lower cost of living and people
qualified for certain fields are harder to come by."

from:
https://www.towerclimber.com/tower-climber-salary-2/

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:30 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller <
par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:

>
> those guys are us, i think... lol
>
> 9 starting - after three months 11
> then increases after periodic reviews
>
> if they're doing tower work or overtime time and a half
> i think we have some guys making 13-15 now
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Matt Hoppes 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 23, 2017 10:24 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Installer Wages
>
> Tower guys. Folks who program radios manage RF handle tower issues. Etc.
>
> On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:20 AM, Adair Winter 
> wrote:
>
> What do you mean by network techs? Tower guys and such?
>
> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:19 AM, Matt Hoppes  rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> How much are you paying your network techs then?
>>
>> On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:10 AM, Adair Winter 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Starting with not much experience, $11/hr. everyone else makes $15-20/hr.
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Matt Hoppes <
>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>
>>> What are you all paying your installers per hour?
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Adair Winter
>> VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
>> Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 <(806)%20316-5071>
>> C: 806.231.7180 <(806)%20231-7180>
>> http://www.amarillowireless.net
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Adair Winter
> VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
> Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 <(806)%20316-5071>
> C: 806.231.7180 <(806)%20231-7180>
> http://www.amarillowireless.net
> 
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Installer Wages

yup

  - Original Message - 
  From: Matt Hoppes 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 10:34 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Wages

  Clearly very different areas - and I expected that. 

  On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:30 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller  
wrote:

those guys are us, i think... lol

9 starting - after three months 11
then increases after periodic reviews

if they're doing tower work or overtime time and a half
i think we have some guys making 13-15 now

  - Original Message - 
  From: Matt Hoppes 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 10:24 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Wages

  Tower guys. Folks who program radios manage RF handle tower issues. Etc. 

  On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:20 AM, Adair Winter  
wrote:

What do you mean by network techs? Tower guys and such?

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:19 AM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:

  How much are you paying your network techs then?

  On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:10 AM, Adair Winter 
 wrote:

Starting with not much experience, $11/hr. everyone else makes 
$15-20/hr.

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:

  What are you all paying your installers per hour?

-- 

Adair Winter
VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071
C: 806.231.7180
http://www.amarillowireless.net

-- 

Adair Winter
VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071
C: 806.231.7180
http://www.amarillowireless.net

Re: [AFMUG] Mimosa C5c

2017-07-23 Thread David Coudron

We are just starting to install these.   We are using the RocketDish 5G30.   We 
have already learned a couple of things we didn’t expect:

  1.  When you unlock them, you need to select PTMP mode.   There is a question 
during the unlock process that wasn’t highly apparent, and our installer missed 
it and selected PTP or it defaulted to PTP, not sure which yet.   Spent a lot 
of time trying to figure out why it would only see PTP links.   I am not sure 
the question even pops up in the mobile app, we need to look at that again as 
that is what the installer used to unlock it.   We caught it after unlocking 
another one from the web browser on a laptop.
  2.  We also spent quite a bit of time with the cable connections as the 
connectors aren’t marked with polarity.  After getting two opposite answers on 
the polarity of the connectors from Mimosa, the final answer was that connector 
1=Horizontal, but it doesn’t matter as the unit autocorrects for polarity.   
This was late on Friday, we will be working with it again to confirm tomorrow.  
We have been unable to find any documentation on the RocketDish, but aren’t 
sure that using one connector on the dish versus another for Horizontal matters 
if the C5c is really autocorrecting.
  3.  You need a pretty tall and heavy duty J-Pole as the bracket on the back 
is pretty long between the two clamp points.   Normal J-Poles, even the heavy 
ones we are using aren’t long enough.   We are trying to find a better option 
for that.

We expect we will only use these in limited areas as we have been having really 
good luck with the C5.   Just installed a link at 3 miles and are getting RSSI 
of -68.


David Coudron
david.coud...@advantenon.com  |  Mobile: 
612-991-7474

Advantenon, Inc. [cid:image001.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0] 
   
[cid:image002.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0]    
[cid:image003.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0]    
[cid:image004.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0] 
i...@advantenon.com  |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, 
Suite 315, Plymouth, MN 55447  |  
www.advantenon.com  |  Phone: 800-704-4720  |  
Local: 612-454-1545

[cid:image005.jpg@01D3039F.3F751F00]

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 8:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Mimosa C5c

Anyone out there using these?  With what antennas?

Thanks.

-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Installer Wages

Clearly very different areas - and I expected that. 

> On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:30 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller  
> wrote:
> 
>  
> those guys are us, i think... lol
>  
> 9 starting - after three months 11
> then increases after periodic reviews
>  
> if they're doing tower work or overtime time and a half
> i think we have some guys making 13-15 now
>  
> - Original Message -
> From: Matt Hoppes
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 10:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Wages
> 
> Tower guys. Folks who program radios manage RF handle tower issues. Etc. 
> 
>> On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:20 AM, Adair Winter  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> What do you mean by network techs? Tower guys and such?
>> 
>>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:19 AM, Matt Hoppes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> How much are you paying your network techs then?
>>> 
 On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:10 AM, Adair Winter  
 wrote:
 
 Starting with not much experience, $11/hr. everyone else  makes 
 $15-20/hr.
 
> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Matt Hoppes 
>  wrote:
> What are you all paying your installers per hour?
 
 
 
 -- 
 Adair Winter
 VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
 Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071
 C: 806.231.7180
 http://www.amarillowireless.net
 
 
 
 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Adair Winter
>> VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
>> Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071
>> C: 806.231.7180
>> http://www.amarillowireless.net
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Installer Wages


those guys are us, i think... lol

9 starting - after three months 11
then increases after periodic reviews

if they're doing tower work or overtime time and a half
i think we have some guys making 13-15 now

  - Original Message - 
  From: Matt Hoppes 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 10:24 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Wages


  Tower guys. Folks who program radios manage RF handle tower issues. Etc. 

  On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:20 AM, Adair Winter  
wrote:


What do you mean by network techs? Tower guys and such?


On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:19 AM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:

  How much are you paying your network techs then?

  On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:10 AM, Adair Winter  
wrote:


Starting with not much experience, $11/hr. everyone else makes 
$15-20/hr.


On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:

  What are you all paying your installers per hour?






-- 

Adair Winter
VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071
C: 806.231.7180
http://www.amarillowireless.net











-- 

Adair Winter
VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071
C: 806.231.7180
http://www.amarillowireless.net

Re: [AFMUG] Installer Wages

2017-07-23 Thread Jeremy

Starting with zero experience, $17/hr. $18/hr after one year.  Then, 50
cents per hour raise for A+, and I'll pay for the test.  $1/hr for
Network+, and I'll pay for the test.  This does not include any tower work,
other than the occasional ground guy helping me rope stuff up.  I do not
currently have any tower guys, that is me.  I'd probably pay them $25-30/hr.

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 9:24 AM, Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> Tower guys. Folks who program radios manage RF handle tower issues. Etc.
>
> On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:20 AM, Adair Winter 
> wrote:
>
> What do you mean by network techs? Tower guys and such?
>
> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:19 AM, Matt Hoppes  rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> How much are you paying your network techs then?
>>
>> On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:10 AM, Adair Winter 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Starting with not much experience, $11/hr. everyone else makes $15-20/hr.
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Matt Hoppes <
>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>
>>> What are you all paying your installers per hour?
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Adair Winter
>> VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
>> Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 <(806)%20316-5071>
>> C: 806.231.7180 <(806)%20231-7180>
>> http://www.amarillowireless.net
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Adair Winter
> VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
> Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 <(806)%20316-5071>
> C: 806.231.7180 <(806)%20231-7180>
> http://www.amarillowireless.net
> 
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Installer Wages

Tower guys. Folks who program radios manage RF handle tower issues. Etc. 

> On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:20 AM, Adair Winter  
> wrote:
> 
> What do you mean by network techs? Tower guys and such?
> 
>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:19 AM, Matt Hoppes 
>>  wrote:
>> How much are you paying your network techs then?
>> 
>>> On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:10 AM, Adair Winter  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Starting with not much experience, $11/hr. everyone else makes $15-20/hr.
>>> 
 On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Matt Hoppes 
  wrote:
 What are you all paying your installers per hour?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Adair Winter
>>> VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
>>> Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071
>>> C: 806.231.7180
>>> http://www.amarillowireless.net
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Adair Winter
> VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
> Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071
> C: 806.231.7180
> http://www.amarillowireless.net
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: [AFMUG] Installer Wages

What do you mean by network techs? Tower guys and such?

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:19 AM, Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> How much are you paying your network techs then?
>
> On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:10 AM, Adair Winter 
> wrote:
>
> Starting with not much experience, $11/hr. everyone else makes $15-20/hr.
>
> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Matt Hoppes  rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> What are you all paying your installers per hour?
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Adair Winter
> VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
> Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 <(806)%20316-5071>
> C: 806.231.7180 <(806)%20231-7180>
> http://www.amarillowireless.net
> 
>
>
>


-- 

Adair Winter
VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071
C: 806.231.7180
http://www.amarillowireless.net

Re: [AFMUG] Installer Wages

How much are you paying your network techs then?

> On Jul 23, 2017, at 11:10 AM, Adair Winter  
> wrote:
> 
> Starting with not much experience, $11/hr. everyone else makes $15-20/hr.
> 
>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Matt Hoppes 
>>  wrote:
>> What are you all paying your installers per hour?
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Adair Winter
> VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
> Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071
> C: 806.231.7180
> http://www.amarillowireless.net
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: [AFMUG] Be careful with 3650 (was CBRS in trouble)

2017-07-23 Thread Adam Moffett


Are we still talking about noise or about spectrum allocation?

Requesting channels from the SAS will not be staus quo, that will be 
very different from how we operate today.


Right now I'm having trouble with another operator's wimax system.  It's 
an industrial automation system so they're using a 50/50 TDD ratio 
(incompatible with ours).  Their consultant advised them that they could 
use small channel sizes to avoid interfering with us, but they're 
insistent on using 10mhz channels.  For some of our base stations, the 
noise in the NN portion of the band is already as bad as you're 
saying.and I really have no recourse.


These guys are happy getting kilobits of throughput some of the time, so 
the fact that we interfere with each other is not really important to 
them.  I'd hope that Verizon or ATT has more incentive to figure 
something out.


When you're saying they could fall back on another band, are you saying 
they'd build 3.65 in our area and then spend the money to swap eNB for a 
different band?  We're in rural areas, so I'm hoping they won't build in 
our area at all because they'd rather build their 5G stuff in a dense 
urban area and use their lower frequencies out in the woods.


I could be wrong.  I don't know what runs through their heads.


-- Original Message --
From: "Mark Radabaugh" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 7/22/2017 8:12:49 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Be careful with 3650 (was CBRS in trouble)

Do you really think Verizon, AT, Sprint, T-Mobil, Comcast, and 
Charter actually care about keeping the spectrum quiet?  The first 4 
all have licensed spectrum to fall back on if the CBRS portion isn’t 
working.   For the cell companies it’s a bonus if 3.65 works, but they 
are not going to be upset if their noise knocks your gear offline.   
And when you complain about the noise the test is going to be “is it 
louder than -80dB at 1.5m off the ground with no antenna gain”.   Also 
- that spec is based on 10Mhz channels.  At 20Mhz wide channels it’s 
-70dB.  The spectrum is going to get loud.


WinnForum is very much of the opinion that the SAS has complete command 
and control of the GAA spectrum.   You only get spectrum under some 
definition of fair allocation that the SAS is going to decide.   It’s 
not codified status quo - it’s mother may I - and the SAS isn’t going 
to tell you who is keeping you from getting a spectrum allocation as 
they consider it proprietary.


Mark

On Jul 21, 2017, at 10:59 PM, Adam Moffett  
wrote:


I'm not sure whether that rule matters.  Everyone has the same 
incentive to avoid interference with each other as they did before.  
Right now if we interfere with each other there's no recourse.  Sounds 
like that'll still be the case.  Codified status quo.



-- Original Message --
From: "Mark Radabaugh" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 7/21/2017 4:49:37 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Be careful with 3650 (was CBRS in trouble)



I urge ALL of you using 3.65 gear to pay very close attention to what 
the definition of power level at the edge of a SAS is - it is a whole 
lot louder than many of you are thinking about. The actual 
document is here:


https://www.fcc.gov/document/35-ghz-order-recon-and-2nd-ro

Pay very close attention to this, and the examples in the appendix.

(d) Received Signal Strength Limits:

(1) For both Priority Access and GAA users, CBSD transmissions must 
be managed such that the aggregate received signal strength for all 
locations within the PAL Protection Area of any co-channel PAL, shall 
not exceed an average (RMS) power level of -80 dBm in any direction 
when integrated over a 10 megahertz reference bandwidth, with the 
measurement antenna placed at a height of 1.5 meters above ground 
level, unless the affected PAL licensees agree to an alternative 
limit and communicate that to the SAS.


The standard is -80dBM/10Mhz approximately 5’ off the ground measured 
by a UNITY GAIN antenna.  This frequency is going to be LOUD.   If 
you are used to deploying with 20dBi gain antennas this means the 
interference signal can appear to you as if it was -60dB and still be 
perfectly legitimate.


At the same time your base stations at 200’ with 16dBi gain antennas 
that are looking toward a PAL boundary are likely to see -64dB of 
noise or much higher if the PAL is calculating the -80dB by taking 
into account terrain, while your base station at 200’ is has clear 
line of sight to the other transmitter.


I’m very concerned that many of you are installing NLOS services and 
counting on being able to continue to provide service use extremely 
low signal levels.   I routinely see posts of people installing LTE 
customers at very low signal levels.  This is not going to continue 
to work well when the base station is faced with significant noise.


Mark

Mark Radabaugh
WISPA FCC Committee Chair
fcc_ch...@wispa.org
419-261-5996

On Jul 21, 2017, at 3:38 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists

Re: [AFMUG] Installer Wages

Starting with not much experience, $11/hr. everyone else makes $15-20/hr.

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> What are you all paying your installers per hour?
>



-- 

Adair Winter
VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071
C: 806.231.7180
http://www.amarillowireless.net

[AFMUG] Installer Wages

What are you all paying your installers per hour?

Re: [AFMUG] Complaining Employees

sometimes you have to weigh the good and the bad.  i guess we do that a lot.  
each of our guys has their strengths and weaknesses. sometimes we do have to 
bite our lip and try not to fire said person for this reason or that reason - 
but usually it is me and i just need to let it goi'm over it in a day or so.

i guess it has a lot to do with daily relationships among people - work or not. 
 people are people.  they are who they are.  most can't be changed.  we need to 
learn to accept people for who they are - and employ their strengths where they 
are available and overlook the weaknesses.

I'd take what Chuck Mccown says to heart - - he's employed hundreds of people.  
But I've employed like 10.  And although we are large enough we could probably 
lose one or two - I certainly wouldn't want to.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Matt Hoppes 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 6:27 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Complaining Employees

  And this is where things get weird and why he's still around. 

  The answer to these questions is - yes. 

  He will respond to an outage regardless of where he is or what he's doing. 

  He has responded to problems on days off. 

  He honestly seems like he WANTS to do things. But possibly lacks the ability 
to do things. 

  Some things can be taught. Others can't. I'm just struggling to make sure I'm 
making the right decision. 

  On Jul 22, 2017, at 11:26 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:

In all seriousness, from a guy who takes his job way too serious... not 
only is a problematic employee an issue in the normal sense to the company, but 
he qill cost you good employees, the dedicated kind who will give you their 
blood in a pinch.
Do you think the problematic guy will leave his kids birthday party to come 
get ten of your customers up? . he wont
Do you think he will spend his spare time discussing industry issues, 
maintain a handful of social media sock account to ensure he has access to 
trending issues he wont
Will he work late on the day hes supposed to leave on a vacation to make 
sure everything is good while hes gone ... he wont.
Will he own issues and show up after hours to come fix them because its his 
fault... he wont
I know the guy youre talking about. Not by name, or face, but hes common, 
and he costs alot of companiea their growth. Do you think at the end of the day 
he cares he doesnt.

The point is, the guys who will do the above, unless theyre ignorant 
gluttons for punishment who dont have it in them to walk away, will walk away 
while youre cupping this guys balls seriously, dont cup the balls. This is 
how workplace shootings ignite. Grow your company cull the herd.

On Jul 22, 2017 9:59 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
 wrote:

  There was an fairly young employee at the wisp which was a general screw 
up.   After no end of second chances with no real change,  they finally canned 
him.  This was several years ago. 

  One day a while back I was down at the wisp and this employee is working 
for the wisp again.   Apparently after getting fired,  he spent a couple years 
growing up.  I've even heard of him chastising another installer for some of 
the crap he used to pull.

  My point is that sometimes getting fired is a better wake up call than 
giving an employee a second chance 

  On Jul 22, 2017 8:16 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

How do you gain wisdom without failure?

We can try to learn from others, but those lessons are far less 
effective.

On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 8:01 PM, Matt Hoppes
 wrote:
> So let me throw another question out.
>
> Say the guy does an OK job at installs, but he wants to do more.  But 
he
> completely screws up the "more" any time he's tried to do it.
>
> How do you handle that situation?  I'm willing to let my main issues 
slide
> on account of the Peter Principle if he can do OK installs.  But he 
says
> over and over he doesn't want to do installs forever.
>
> So will he be unhappy?  Demoralized?  Etc, if that's all I keep him 
on? I
> feel like yes.
>
> I'm in a really difficult position right now and need to figure out 
how to
> address it next week.. =\
>
> Yeah Employees!

Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 ~50mbps cap

RF/RE/MAX =)

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 8:58 AM, Rory Conaway  wrote:
> I should get a real estate license then.  We have a lot of these locations.
> Just got 4 more last week.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 6:54 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 ~50mbps cap
>
>
>
> I have been talking about this model for 3 or 4 years now, literally ever
> since the horns went into testing.
>
>
>
> It seems so simple, but between their beamwith and isolation and the newer
> radio designs it just makes sense - as long as you can find ways to wheel
> and deal for the required real estate.
>
>
>
> On Jul 22, 2017 11:38 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
>
> RF Element antennas have completely changed that equation.  Because of the
> cost of newer APs, you can use more APs at a lower cost which shares the
> capacity across more APs.  This allows up to 150Mbps per customer if you are
> using Mimosa A5cs for example.
>
> I  have a site where we have 7 Prism APs on the building and could easily
> deliver 100Mbps to customers with Prisms and RF Element antennas.  We have
> tested speeds up to 195Mbps with some customers as a demonstration just for
> bragging rights against competitors.  With 40MHz channels, I’ve got capacity
> of 200Mbps or more on each of the APs now with 40MHz channels.  You could do
> the same thing with Mimosa A5cs also and get MU-MIMO along with it.  Because
> of the low-cost of the APs versus the 450, you can deploy far more of them
> and the processors in them are much faster.  In addition, they also support
> 50-80MHz channels have GPS, Polling, and TDMA protocols.
>
> The 450 is a great product and I plan on deploying some 900Mhz units soon
> but with new equipment from Ubiquiti and Mimosa, don’t think it’s the only
> game in town any longer by any stretch.
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 3:26 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 ~50mbps cap
>
>
>
> Micro. Pops.
>
>
>
> That's where the distributed low cost APs make sense (where you can of
> course).
>
>
>
> On Jul 21, 2017 4:02 PM, "Joe Falaschi"  wrote:
>
> What Chris said.
>
>
>
> Our 450Ms have been a huge game changer for us.  We have a tower with 300
> people on it, pretty much all on one side (180 degrees is busy and the other
> 180 degrees is pretty silent).  In the past we’d add an AP to offload
> capacity and that AP was used up day one.  There just wasn’t a path to catch
> up with demand much less start to offer faster speeds.  If there is any kind
> of density, greater than 100+ clients on the tower, I’m not sure how you use
> anything other than 450m at this point.
>
>
>
> Joe
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 18, 2017, at 11:54 AM, Chris Wright  wrote:
>
>
>
> ePMP might make sense to build in a new area, but when you have 100+ clients
> in a single 90 degree sector, replacing your triple-stacked PMP450 APs with
> a single 450M, saving 40MHz of spectrum, offering faster speeds, AND not
> having to swap 100+ radios feels mighty nice.
>
>
>
> Chris Wright
>
> Network Administrator
>
>
>
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
> Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 8:58 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 ~50mbps cap
>
>
>
> I've had ePMP's do some weird things here and there, like refusing to reboot
> or accept config changes.  Nothing a power cycle didn't fix.
>
> I've had to power cycle a PMP100 or 450 to fix a problem approximately zero
> times.
>
>
>
> I know a neighbor who had a tower hit by lightning an ePMP and a Ubiquiti
> Rocket died while the PMP100 and 430 stuff kept on chugging (he didn't have
> 450 there yet).
>
>
>
> 450 has a few management conveniences like remote spectrum analyzer, RF
> private IP, and SM proxy access via AP.
>
>
>
> So overall my experiences say the 450 is better than the ePMP, but I still
> use a lot of ePMP for all the reasons others have stated.  ePMP is good bang
> for the buck.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
>
> From: "Mathew Howard" 
>
> To: "af" 
>
> Sent: 7/18/2017 10:23:17 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 ~50mbps cap
>
>
>
> It seems to me (as someone who hasn't actually used PMP450 to speak of,
> other than 900mhz), that PMP450 has some advantages for high density
> deployments... particularly if you're talking 450m, or even the ability to
> easily upgrade to 450m. But in a network like ours, where the average SMs
> per AP is somewhere around 15, I just can't see any way that it could
> possibly be worth going with 450 over ePMP.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
> The PMP450M can make ~~ 12° sectors. On a busy tower, and surrounded by
> noisy neighbors, we're often seeing 30 dBm SNR. Nothing

Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 ~50mbps cap

I should get a real estate license then.  We have a lot of these locations.  
Just got 4 more last week.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 6:54 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 ~50mbps cap

I have been talking about this model for 3 or 4 years now, literally ever since 
the horns went into testing.

It seems so simple, but between their beamwith and isolation and the newer 
radio designs it just makes sense - as long as you can find ways to wheel and 
deal for the required real estate.

On Jul 22, 2017 11:38 PM, "Rory Conaway" 
> wrote:
RF Element antennas have completely changed that equation.  Because of the cost 
of newer APs, you can use more APs at a lower cost which shares the capacity 
across more APs.  This allows up to 150Mbps per customer if you are using 
Mimosa A5cs for example.

I  have a site where we have 7 Prism APs on the building and could easily 
deliver 100Mbps to customers with Prisms and RF Element antennas.  We have 
tested speeds up to 195Mbps with some customers as a demonstration just for 
bragging rights against competitors.  With 40MHz channels, I’ve got capacity of 
200Mbps or more on each of the APs now with 40MHz channels.  You could do the 
same thing with Mimosa A5cs also and get MU-MIMO along with it.  Because of the 
low-cost of the APs versus the 450, you can deploy far more of them and the 
processors in them are much faster.  In addition, they also support 50-80MHz 
channels have GPS, Polling, and TDMA protocols.

The 450 is a great product and I plan on deploying some 900Mhz units soon but 
with new equipment from Ubiquiti and Mimosa, don’t think it’s the only game in 
town any longer by any stretch.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 3:26 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 ~50mbps cap

Micro. Pops.

That's where the distributed low cost APs make sense (where you can of course).

On Jul 21, 2017 4:02 PM, "Joe Falaschi" 
> wrote:
What Chris said.

Our 450Ms have been a huge game changer for us.  We have a tower with 300 
people on it, pretty much all on one side (180 degrees is busy and the other 
180 degrees is pretty silent).  In the past we’d add an AP to offload capacity 
and that AP was used up day one.  There just wasn’t a path to catch up with 
demand much less start to offer faster speeds.  If there is any kind of 
density, greater than 100+ clients on the tower, I’m not sure how you use 
anything other than 450m at this point.

Joe

On Jul 18, 2017, at 11:54 AM, Chris Wright 
> wrote:

ePMP might make sense to build in a new area, but when you have 100+ clients in 
a single 90 degree sector, replacing your triple-stacked PMP450 APs with a 
single 450M, saving 40MHz of spectrum, offering faster speeds, AND not having 
to swap 100+ radios feels mighty nice.

Chris Wright
Network Administrator

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 8:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 ~50mbps cap

I've had ePMP's do some weird things here and there, like refusing to reboot or 
accept config changes.  Nothing a power cycle didn't fix.
I've had to power cycle a PMP100 or 450 to fix a problem approximately zero 
times.

I know a neighbor who had a tower hit by lightning an ePMP and a Ubiquiti 
Rocket died while the PMP100 and 430 stuff kept on chugging (he didn't have 450 
there yet).

450 has a few management conveniences like remote spectrum analyzer, RF private 
IP, and SM proxy access via AP.

So overall my experiences say the 450 is better than the ePMP, but I still use 
a lot of ePMP for all the reasons others have stated.  ePMP is good bang for 
the buck.

-Adam

-- Original Message --
From: "Mathew Howard" >
To: "af" >
Sent: 7/18/2017 10:23:17 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 ~50mbps cap

It seems to me (as someone who hasn't actually used PMP450 to speak of, other 
than 900mhz), that PMP450 has some advantages for high density deployments... 
particularly if you're talking 450m, or even the ability to easily upgrade to 
450m. But in a network like ours, where the average SMs per AP is somewhere 
around 15, I just can't see any way that it could possibly be worth going with 
450 over ePMP.

On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Bill Prince 
> wrote:

The PMP450M can make ~~ 12° sectors. On a busy tower, and surrounded by noisy 
neighbors, we're often seeing 30 dBm SNR. Nothing else comes close.

bp

On 7/17/2017 10:10 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
Serious question, not my usual

Re: [AFMUG] OT Roomba

Unless she gives you a post it note with what she wanted for Mother’s day 
written on it.  Then whadya gonna do?

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 7:47 AM
To: af@afmug.com ; af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Roomba

waitisn't buying your wife a vacuum cleaner one of the automatic no-no's ?

-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 7/22/2017 11:05:44 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Roomba

  Got my wife a Roomba for Mother’s day.  The first one only worked for 20 
minutes before going on the fritz.  

  Been watching the replacement do its thing.  Seems pretty smart.

  However it did ship with software that was about a year old.  It is supposed 
to automatically update itself.

Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 ~50mbps cap

I have been talking about this model for 3 or 4 years now, literally ever
since the horns went into testing.

It seems so simple, but between their beamwith and isolation and the newer
radio designs it just makes sense - as long as you can find ways to wheel
and deal for the required real estate.

On Jul 22, 2017 11:38 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

> RF Element antennas have completely changed that equation.  Because of the
> cost of newer APs, you can use more APs at a lower cost which shares the
> capacity across more APs.  This allows up to 150Mbps per customer if you
> are using Mimosa A5cs for example.
>
> I  have a site where we have 7 Prism APs on the building and could easily
> deliver 100Mbps to customers with Prisms and RF Element antennas.  We have
> tested speeds up to 195Mbps with some customers as a demonstration just for
> bragging rights against competitors.  With 40MHz channels, I’ve got
> capacity of 200Mbps or more on each of the APs now with 40MHz channels.
> You could do the same thing with Mimosa A5cs also and get MU-MIMO along
> with it.  Because of the low-cost of the APs versus the 450, you can deploy
> far more of them and the processors in them are much faster.  In addition,
> they also support 50-80MHz channels have GPS, Polling, and TDMA protocols.
>
>
> The 450 is a great product and I plan on deploying some 900Mhz units soon
> but with new equipment from Ubiquiti and Mimosa, don’t think it’s the only
> game in town any longer by any stretch.
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Friday, July 21, 2017 3:26 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 ~50mbps cap
>
>
>
> Micro. Pops.
>
>
>
> That's where the distributed low cost APs make sense (where you can of
> course).
>
>
>
> On Jul 21, 2017 4:02 PM, "Joe Falaschi"  wrote:
>
> What Chris said.
>
>
>
> Our 450Ms have been a huge game changer for us.  We have a tower with 300
> people on it, pretty much all on one side (180 degrees is busy and the
> other 180 degrees is pretty silent).  In the past we’d add an AP to offload
> capacity and that AP was used up day one.  There just wasn’t a path to
> catch up with demand much less start to offer faster speeds.  If there is
> any kind of density, greater than 100+ clients on the tower, I’m not sure
> how you use anything other than 450m at this point.
>
>
>
> Joe
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 18, 2017, at 11:54 AM, Chris Wright  wrote:
>
>
>
> ePMP might make sense to build in a new area, but when you have 100+
> clients in a single 90 degree sector, replacing your triple-stacked PMP450
> APs with a single 450M, saving 40MHz of spectrum, offering faster speeds,
> AND not having to swap 100+ radios feels mighty nice.
>
>
>
> Chris Wright
>
> Network Administrator
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 18, 2017 8:58 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 ~50mbps cap
>
>
>
> I've had ePMP's do some weird things here and there, like refusing to
> reboot or accept config changes.  Nothing a power cycle didn't fix.
>
> I've had to power cycle a PMP100 or 450 to fix a problem approximately
> zero times.
>
>
>
> I know a neighbor who had a tower hit by lightning an ePMP and a Ubiquiti
> Rocket died while the PMP100 and 430 stuff kept on chugging (he didn't have
> 450 there yet).
>
>
>
> 450 has a few management conveniences like remote spectrum analyzer, RF
> private IP, and SM proxy access via AP.
>
>
>
> So overall my experiences say the 450 is better than the ePMP, but I still
> use a lot of ePMP for all the reasons others have stated.  ePMP is good
> bang for the buck.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
>
> From: "Mathew Howard" 
>
> To: "af" 
>
> Sent: 7/18/2017 10:23:17 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 ~50mbps cap
>
>
>
> It seems to me (as someone who hasn't actually used PMP450 to speak of,
> other than 900mhz), that PMP450 has some advantages for high density
> deployments... particularly if you're talking 450m, or even the ability to
> easily upgrade to 450m. But in a network like ours, where the average SMs
> per AP is somewhere around 15, I just can't see any way that it could
> possibly be worth going with 450 over ePMP.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
> The PMP450M can make ~~ 12° sectors. On a busy tower, and surrounded by
> noisy neighbors, we're often seeing 30 dBm SNR. Nothing else comes close.
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 7/17/2017 10:10 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> Serious question, not my usual sarcasm, how are you 450 folks justifying
> the substantial proce difference between 450 and epmp, seriously, if you
> dont freeze in the winter, i couldnt justify it. Granted we dont sellbover
> 12\2 and we dont have more than

Re: [AFMUG] OT Roomba

2017-07-23 Thread Adam Moffett

waitisn't buying your wife a vacuum cleaner one of the automatic 
no-no's ?

-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 7/22/2017 11:05:44 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Roomba

Got my wife a Roomba for Mother’s day.  The first one only worked for 
20 minutes before going on the fritz.

Been watching the replacement do its thing.  Seems pretty smart.

However it did ship with software that was about a year old.  It is 
supposed to automatically update itself.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Roomba

Yeah, but fun to watch.

From: Nate Burke 
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 10:42 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Roomba

I have a much older model,  I really liked it, but it was the exact height as 
the gap at the bottom of the couch, it kept getting itself stuck since it never 
ran into anything until it was wedged in place.  And you still had to empty it 
when it was done, almost as easy to just get out the vacuum and push it around 
for 5 minutes.  

On 7/22/2017 10:05 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  Got my wife a Roomba for Mother’s day.  The first one only worked for 20 
minutes before going on the fritz.  

  Been watching the replacement do its thing.  Seems pretty smart.

  However it did ship with software that was about a year old.  It is supposed 
to automatically update itself.

Re: [AFMUG] Complaining Employees