Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[Chuck McCown]

Probably.  I suppose I should ask.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 7:28 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

Does the company you purchase your SAF stuff from do it, though?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Steve Jones" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 7:53:14 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz


Saf does not

On Feb 11, 2018 9:06 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

  Trango did.  They subbed out the coordination and licensing to Radyn, but I 
don't think they marked it up much.

  -- Original Message --
  From: "Chuck McCown" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 2/11/2018 8:52:36 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

If I have been offered a package, I cannot remember it.  If I turned it 
down it was because I could save money by not taking the package.  

So, if this exists, it exists.  Does SAF do this?  Last radios I put up 
were SAF.  

From: Faisal Imtiaz 
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 5:45 PM
    To: af@afmug.com 
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

I am guessing you don't know this.. but every distributor that is selling 
license radios, offers a 'licensing coordination' package. In case of Mimosa, 
they actually have an arrangement with one of the coordinators to get the job 
done at a discounted rate.

So, what I am missing... ?

Regards. 

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net




  From: "Chuck McCown" 
  To: af@afmug.com
      Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 4:24:07 PM 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

  If you are selling radios that need licenses, I would think that perhaps 
you should get some kind of bulk deal and pass the saving along to your 
customers.  Radio, antenna, license – all in a package for one simple price. 

  Right now we buy the car at one place, then we go across the street and 
buy tires and put them on the car, then we push it to the gas station for gas.  
Ford may not be in the business of refining petroleum or making tires, but can 
certainly drive the car off the lot.  And in all cases in recent memory the 
dealership also does everything necessary for obtaining the license plate too. 

  From: Faisal Imtiaz
  Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 1:40 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

  >>.I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy. 

  Here is the part that I love about the WISP's... Everyone is Opinionated 
to the Nth degree without explanation or possible understanding of why they 
have such an opinion. and that is ok, as long as it is expressed in that 
context ...

  As an engineer, I tend to dismiss all opinions, unless the person 
offering the opinion can offer an explanation which has some sound technical 
backing to support it.. Similarly, I also tend to dismiss the "I love it" 
opinions, unless they are backed up to the reason why.

  I am happy to see lots of options in the market space, no one can please 
everyone . FWIW, We use gear from many different mfg. each for their 
strengths, and not their weaknesses. We find that each of these products shine 
in the different ares of the three common requirement that everyone has.. Needs 
to be Good Quality, Fast Performance, and Cost Effective..

  In regards to the debate about Freq., I will suggest to the OP that do a 
little bit of reading on the fade characteristics of different Freq. is, this 
is physics, and totally vendor agnostic, and this will greatly help you in  
gaining  a better understanding of what is the difference one can expect 
between 24Gz/23GHZ/18GHZ/11GHZ/6GHZ etc.. for their deployment region.. (I 
agree with Steve, in regards to the missing context of rain zone, and I also 
agree with Mike H.. that Rain zone's are a rough guide, not an absolute ref  ).

  I am a bit puzzled about Chuck M's comment about the Cost of License 
being high ? and a desire to purchase a 'bundle' which includes coordination 
etc... I would like to see if Chuck can elaborate a bit more on this...

  :)

  Happy Weekend.

  Faisal Imtiaz
  Snappy Internet & Telecom
  http://www.snappytelecom.net

  Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

  Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net


--

From: "Steve Jones" 
        To: af@afmug.com

Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 11:25:17 AM 

Subje

Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[Steve Jones]

yes. I always thought registration was a sales side component
Our Mimosa was done through commsearch, as I understand it theyre partnered
with mimosa or some such thing
Since radios are a global sales thing I dont know if its worth the radio
manufacturer time to make arrangements with all the registering nations
agencies.
SAF just relatively recently pushed into North America, Maybe its on their
horizon, I dont know. But I always kind of prefer people stay in their
lane, if you make radios, make radios, if you sell goods and services, just
sell goods and services

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 8:28 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Does the company you purchase your SAF stuff from do it, though?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --------------------------
> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, February 12, 2018 7:53:14 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
>
> Saf does not
>
> On Feb 11, 2018 9:06 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>
> Trango did.  They subbed out the coordination and licensing to Radyn, but
> I don't think they marked it up much.
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chuck McCown" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/11/2018 8:52:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
>
> If I have been offered a package, I cannot remember it.  If I turned it
> down it was because I could save money by not taking the package.
>
> So, if this exists, it exists.  Does SAF do this?  Last radios I put up
> were SAF.
>
> *From:* Faisal Imtiaz
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 11, 2018 5:45 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
>
> I am guessing you don't know this.. but every distributor that is selling
> license radios, offers a 'licensing coordination' package. In case of
> Mimosa, they actually have an arrangement with one of the coordinators to
> get the job done at a discounted rate.
>
> So, what I am missing... ?
>
> Regards.
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> http://www.snappytelecom.net
>
> Tel: 305 663 5518 <(305)%20663-5518> x 232
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <(305)%20663-5518> Option 2 or Email:
> supp...@snappytelecom.net
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Chuck McCown" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Sunday, February 11, 2018 4:24:07 PM
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
>
> If you are selling radios that need licenses, I would think that perhaps
> you should get some kind of bulk deal and pass the saving along to your
> customers.  Radio, antenna, license – all in a package for one simple
> price.
>
> Right now we buy the car at one place, then we go across the street and
> buy tires and put them on the car, then we push it to the gas station for
> gas.  Ford may not be in the business of refining petroleum or making
> tires, but can certainly drive the car off the lot.  And in all cases in
> recent memory the dealership also does everything necessary for obtaining
> the license plate too.
>
> *From:* Faisal Imtiaz
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 11, 2018 1:40 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
>
> >>.I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy.
>
> Here is the part that I love about the WISP's... Everyone is Opinionated
> to the Nth degree without explanation or possible understanding of why they
> have such an opinion. and that is ok, as long as it is expressed in
> that context ...
>
> As an engineer, I tend to dismiss all opinions, unless the person offering
> the opinion can offer an explanation which has some sound technical backing
> to support it.. Similarly, I also tend to dismiss the "I love it" opinions,
> unless they are backed up to the reason why.
>
> I am happy to see lots of options in the market space, no one can please
> everyone . FWIW, We use gear from many different mfg. each for their
> strengths, and not their weaknesses. We find that each of these products
> shine in the d

Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[Faisal Imtiaz]

I cannot speak for SAF as a mfg. but most distributors (including ones selling 
SAF) do offer a package. 
Most of them are not marking it up . 
The only ones that I know had a discount negotiated for coordination fess is 
Mimosa. 

Regards. 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
http://www.snappytelecom.net 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Chuck McCown" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 8:52:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

> If I have been offered a package, I cannot remember it. If I turned it down it
> was because I could save money by not taking the package.
> So, if this exists, it exists. Does SAF do this? Last radios I put up were 
> SAF.
> From: Faisal Imtiaz
> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 5:45 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
> I am guessing you don't know this.. but every distributor that is selling
> license radios, offers a 'licensing coordination' package. In case of Mimosa,
> they actually have an arrangement with one of the coordinators to get the job
> done at a discounted rate.
> So, what I am missing... ?
> Regards.
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> http://www.snappytelecom.net

> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

>> From: "Chuck McCown" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 4:24:07 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

>> If you are selling radios that need licenses, I would think that perhaps you
>> should get some kind of bulk deal and pass the saving along to your 
>> customers.
>> Radio, antenna, license – all in a package for one simple price.
>> Right now we buy the car at one place, then we go across the street and buy
>> tires and put them on the car, then we push it to the gas station for gas. 
>> Ford
>> may not be in the business of refining petroleum or making tires, but can
>> certainly drive the car off the lot. And in all cases in recent memory the
>> dealership also does everything necessary for obtaining the license plate 
>> too.
>> From: Faisal Imtiaz
>> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 1:40 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
>> >>. I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy.
>> Here is the part that I love about the WISP's... Everyone is Opinionated to 
>> the
>> Nth degree without explanation or possible understanding of why they have 
>> such
>> an opinion. and that is ok, as long as it is expressed in that context 
>> ...
>> As an engineer, I tend to dismiss all opinions, unless the person offering 
>> the
>> opinion can offer an explanation which has some sound technical backing to
>> support it.. Similarly, I also tend to dismiss the "I love it" opinions, 
>> unless
>> they are backed up to the reason why.
>> I am happy to see lots of options in the market space, no one can please
>> everyone . FWIW, We use gear from many different mfg. each for their
>> strengths, and not their weaknesses. We find that each of these products 
>> shine
>> in the different ares of the three common requirement that everyone has.. 
>> Needs
>> to be Good Quality, Fast Performance, and Cost Effective..
>> In regards to the debate about Freq., I will suggest to the OP that do a 
>> little
>> bit of reading on the fade characteristics of different Freq. is, this is
>> physics, and totally vendor agnostic, and this will greatly help you in 
>> gaining
>> a better understanding of what is the difference one can expect between
>> 24Gz/23GHZ/18GHZ/11GHZ/6GHZ etc.. for their deployment region.. (I agree with
>> Steve, in regards to the missing context of rain zone, and I also agree with
>> Mike H.. that Rain zone's are a rough guide, not an absolute ref ).
>> I am a bit puzzled about Chuck M's comment about the Cost of License being 
>> high
>> ? and a desire to purchase a 'bundle' which includes coordination etc... I
>> would like to see if Chuck can elaborate a bit more on this...
>> :)
>> Happy Weekend.
>> Faisal Imtiaz
>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>> http://www.snappytelecom.net

>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

>>> From: "Steve Jones" 
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 11:25:17 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

>>> I should have caveated that,

Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[Mike Hammett]

Does the company you purchase your SAF stuff from do it, though? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Steve Jones"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 7:53:14 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz 


Saf does not 


On Feb 11, 2018 9:06 PM, "Adam Moffett" < dmmoff...@gmail.com > wrote: 




Trango did. They subbed out the coordination and licensing to Radyn, but I 
don't think they marked it up much. 



-- Original Message -- 
From: "Chuck McCown" < ch...@wbmfg.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 

Sent: 2/11/2018 8:52:36 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz 








If I have been offered a package, I cannot remember it. If I turned it down it 
was because I could save money by not taking the package. 

So, if this exists, it exists. Does SAF do this? Last radios I put up were SAF. 





From: Faisal Imtiaz 
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 5:45 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz 




I am guessing you don't know this.. but every distributor that is selling 
license radios, offers a 'licensing coordination' package. In case of Mimosa, 
they actually have an arrangement with one of the coordinators to get the job 
done at a discounted rate. 

So, what I am missing... ? 

Regards. 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
http://www.snappytelecom.net 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 




From: "Chuck McCown" < ch...@wbmfg.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 4:24:07 PM 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz 








If you are selling radios that need licenses, I would think that perhaps you 
should get some kind of bulk deal and pass the saving along to your customers. 
Radio, antenna, license – all in a package for one simple price. 


Right now we buy the car at one place, then we go across the street and buy 
tires and put them on the car, then we push it to the gas station for gas. Ford 
may not be in the business of refining petroleum or making tires, but can 
certainly drive the car off the lot. And in all cases in recent memory the 
dealership also does everything necessary for obtaining the license plate too. 





From: Faisal Imtiaz 
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 1:40 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz 




>>. I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy. 

Here is the part that I love about the WISP's... Everyone is Opinionated to the 
Nth degree without explanation or possible understanding of why they have such 
an opinion. and that is ok, as long as it is expressed in that context ... 

As an engineer, I tend to dismiss all opinions, unless the person offering the 
opinion can offer an explanation which has some sound technical backing to 
support it.. Similarly, I also tend to dismiss the "I love it" opinions, unless 
they are backed up to the reason why. 

I am happy to see lots of options in the market space, no one can please 
everyone . FWIW, We use gear from many different mfg. each for their 
strengths, and not their weaknesses. We find that each of these products shine 
in the different ares of the three common requirement that everyone has.. Needs 
to be Good Quality, Fast Performance, and Cost Effective.. 

In regards to the debate about Freq., I will suggest to the OP that do a little 
bit of reading on the fade characteristics of different Freq. is, this is 
physics, and totally vendor agnostic, and this will greatly help you in gaining 
a better understanding of what is the difference one can expect between 
24Gz/23GHZ/18GHZ/11GHZ/6GHZ etc.. for their deployment region.. (I agree with 
Steve, in regards to the missing context of rain zone, and I also agree with 
Mike H.. that Rain zone's are a rough guide, not an absolute ref ). 

I am a bit puzzled about Chuck M's comment about the Cost of License being high 
? and a desire to purchase a 'bundle' which includes coordination etc... I 
would like to see if Chuck can elaborate a bit more on this... 

:) 

Happy Weekend. 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
http://www.snappytelecom.net 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 





From: "Steve Jones" < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 11:25:17 AM 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz 






I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy. I havent seen much bad about the 
5ghz stuff 



On Feb 11, 2018 9:47 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 





Mimosa 5 GHz works great for me. Don't use shit antennas. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: &

Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[Steve Jones]

Saf does not

On Feb 11, 2018 9:06 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

Trango did.  They subbed out the coordination and licensing to Radyn, but I
don't think they marked it up much.

-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/11/2018 8:52:36 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

If I have been offered a package, I cannot remember it.  If I turned it
down it was because I could save money by not taking the package.

So, if this exists, it exists.  Does SAF do this?  Last radios I put up
were SAF.

*From:* Faisal Imtiaz
*Sent:* Sunday, February 11, 2018 5:45 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

I am guessing you don't know this.. but every distributor that is selling
license radios, offers a 'licensing coordination' package. In case of
Mimosa, they actually have an arrangement with one of the coordinators to
get the job done at a discounted rate.

So, what I am missing... ?

Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net

Tel: 305 663 5518 <(305)%20663-5518> x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <(305)%20663-5518> Option 2 or Email:
supp...@snappytelecom.net

--

*From: *"Chuck McCown" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Sunday, February 11, 2018 4:24:07 PM

*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

If you are selling radios that need licenses, I would think that perhaps
you should get some kind of bulk deal and pass the saving along to your
customers.  Radio, antenna, license – all in a package for one simple
price.

Right now we buy the car at one place, then we go across the street and buy
tires and put them on the car, then we push it to the gas station for gas.
Ford may not be in the business of refining petroleum or making tires, but
can certainly drive the car off the lot.  And in all cases in recent memory
the dealership also does everything necessary for obtaining the license
plate too.

*From:* Faisal Imtiaz
*Sent:* Sunday, February 11, 2018 1:40 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

>>.I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy.

Here is the part that I love about the WISP's... Everyone is Opinionated to
the Nth degree without explanation or possible understanding of why they
have such an opinion. and that is ok, as long as it is expressed in
that context ...

As an engineer, I tend to dismiss all opinions, unless the person offering
the opinion can offer an explanation which has some sound technical backing
to support it.. Similarly, I also tend to dismiss the "I love it" opinions,
unless they are backed up to the reason why.

I am happy to see lots of options in the market space, no one can please
everyone . FWIW, We use gear from many different mfg. each for their
strengths, and not their weaknesses. We find that each of these products
shine in the different ares of the three common requirement that everyone
has.. Needs to be Good Quality, Fast Performance, and Cost Effective..

In regards to the debate about Freq., I will suggest to the OP that do a
little bit of reading on the fade characteristics of different Freq. is,
this is physics, and totally vendor agnostic, and this will greatly help
you in  gaining  a better understanding of what is the difference one can
expect between 24Gz/23GHZ/18GHZ/11GHZ/6GHZ etc.. for their deployment
region.. (I agree with Steve, in regards to the missing context of rain
zone, and I also agree with Mike H.. that Rain zone's are a rough guide,
not an absolute ref  ).

I am a bit puzzled about Chuck M's comment about the Cost of License being
high ? and a desire to purchase a 'bundle' which includes coordination
etc... I would like to see if Chuck can elaborate a bit more on this...

:)

Happy Weekend.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net

Tel: 305 663 5518 <(305)%20663-5518> x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <(305)%20663-5518> Option 2 or Email:
supp...@snappytelecom.net

------------------

*From: *"Steve Jones" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Sunday, February 11, 2018 11:25:17 AM

*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy. I havent seen much bad about
the 5ghz stuff

On Feb 11, 2018 9:47 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> Mimosa 5 GHz works great for me. Don't use shit antennas.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>

Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[Adam Moffett]

Trango did.  They subbed out the coordination and licensing to Radyn, 
but I don't think they marked it up much.


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/11/2018 8:52:36 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

If I have been offered a package, I cannot remember it.  If I turned it 
down it was because I could save money by not taking the package.


So, if this exists, it exists.  Does SAF do this?  Last radios I put up 
were SAF.


From:Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 5:45 PM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

I am guessing you don't know this.. but every distributor that is 
selling license radios, offers a 'licensing coordination' package. In 
case of Mimosa, they actually have an arrangement with one of the 
coordinators to get the job done at a discounted rate.


So, what I am missing... ?

Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net



From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 4:24:07 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
If you are selling radios that need licenses, I would think that 
perhaps you should get some kind of bulk deal and pass the saving 
along to your customers.  Radio, antenna, license – all in a package 
for one simple price.


Right now we buy the car at one place, then we go across the street 
and buy tires and put them on the car, then we push it to the gas 
station for gas.  Ford may not be in the business of refining 
petroleum or making tires, but can certainly drive the car off the 
lot.  And in all cases in recent memory the dealership also does 
everything necessary for obtaining the license plate too.


From:Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 1:40 PM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

>>.I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy.

Here is the part that I love about the WISP's... Everyone is 
Opinionated to the Nth degree without explanation or possible 
understanding of why they have such an opinion. and that is ok, as 
long as it is expressed in that context ...


As an engineer, I tend to dismiss all opinions, unless the person 
offering the opinion can offer an explanation which has some sound 
technical backing to support it.. Similarly, I also tend to dismiss 
the "I love it" opinions, unless they are backed up to the reason why.


I am happy to see lots of options in the market space, no one can 
please everyone . FWIW, We use gear from many different mfg. each 
for their strengths, and not their weaknesses. We find that each of 
these products shine in the different ares of the three common 
requirement that everyone has.. Needs to be Good Quality, Fast 
Performance, and Cost Effective..


In regards to the debate about Freq., I will suggest to the OP that do 
a little bit of reading on the fade characteristics of different Freq. 
is, this is physics, and totally vendor agnostic, and this will 
greatly help you in  gaining  a better understanding of what is the 
difference one can expect between 24Gz/23GHZ/18GHZ/11GHZ/6GHZ etc.. 
for their deployment region.. (I agree with Steve, in regards to the 
missing context of rain zone, and I also agree with Mike H.. that Rain 
zone's are a rough guide, not an absolute ref  ).


I am a bit puzzled about Chuck M's comment about the Cost of License 
being high ? and a desire to purchase a 'bundle' which includes 
coordination etc... I would like to see if Chuck can elaborate a bit 
more on this...


:)

Happy Weekend.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net



From: "Steve Jones" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 11:25:17 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy. I havent seen much bad 
about the 5ghz stuff


On Feb 11, 2018 9:47 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

Mimosa 5 GHz works great for me. Don't use shit antennas.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> 
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> 
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>

Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> 
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>

The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/

Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[Chuck McCown]

If I have been offered a package, I cannot remember it.  If I turned it down it 
was because I could save money by not taking the package.  

So, if this exists, it exists.  Does SAF do this?  Last radios I put up were 
SAF.  

From: Faisal Imtiaz 
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 5:45 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

I am guessing you don't know this.. but every distributor that is selling 
license radios, offers a 'licensing coordination' package. In case of Mimosa, 
they actually have an arrangement with one of the coordinators to get the job 
done at a discounted rate.

So, what I am missing... ?

Regards. 

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net




  From: "Chuck McCown" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 4:24:07 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

  If you are selling radios that need licenses, I would think that perhaps you 
should get some kind of bulk deal and pass the saving along to your customers.  
Radio, antenna, license – all in a package for one simple price. 

  Right now we buy the car at one place, then we go across the street and buy 
tires and put them on the car, then we push it to the gas station for gas.  
Ford may not be in the business of refining petroleum or making tires, but can 
certainly drive the car off the lot.  And in all cases in recent memory the 
dealership also does everything necessary for obtaining the license plate too. 

  From: Faisal Imtiaz
  Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 1:40 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

  >>.I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy. 

  Here is the part that I love about the WISP's... Everyone is Opinionated to 
the Nth degree without explanation or possible understanding of why they have 
such an opinion. and that is ok, as long as it is expressed in that context 
...

  As an engineer, I tend to dismiss all opinions, unless the person offering 
the opinion can offer an explanation which has some sound technical backing to 
support it.. Similarly, I also tend to dismiss the "I love it" opinions, unless 
they are backed up to the reason why.

  I am happy to see lots of options in the market space, no one can please 
everyone . FWIW, We use gear from many different mfg. each for their 
strengths, and not their weaknesses. We find that each of these products shine 
in the different ares of the three common requirement that everyone has.. Needs 
to be Good Quality, Fast Performance, and Cost Effective..

  In regards to the debate about Freq., I will suggest to the OP that do a 
little bit of reading on the fade characteristics of different Freq. is, this 
is physics, and totally vendor agnostic, and this will greatly help you in  
gaining  a better understanding of what is the difference one can expect 
between 24Gz/23GHZ/18GHZ/11GHZ/6GHZ etc.. for their deployment region.. (I 
agree with Steve, in regards to the missing context of rain zone, and I also 
agree with Mike H.. that Rain zone's are a rough guide, not an absolute ref  ).

  I am a bit puzzled about Chuck M's comment about the Cost of License being 
high ? and a desire to purchase a 'bundle' which includes coordination etc... I 
would like to see if Chuck can elaborate a bit more on this...

  :)

  Happy Weekend.

  Faisal Imtiaz
  Snappy Internet & Telecom
  http://www.snappytelecom.net

  Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

  Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net


--

From: "Steve Jones" 
    To: af@afmug.com
    Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 11:25:17 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy. I havent seen much bad about 
the 5ghz stuff

On Feb 11, 2018 9:47 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

  Mimosa 5 GHz works great for me. Don't use shit antennas.




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Steve Jones" 
      To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 12:34:23 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz


  Seriously, these questions, please, please, please! State your rain 
region. Here,. id like to punch anybody in the eye who lies to you and tells 
you 24 GHZ is a good idea over 1.2 miles ( I dont care the KM Im mercan) but 
some guy in a desert might tell you its an awesome idea at 6 miles, I dont care 
about him here, he doesnt care about me there. If you get into the higher 
frequencies yout rain zone, it r

Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[Faisal Imtiaz]

I am guessing you don't know this.. but every distributor that is selling 
license radios, offers a 'licensing coordination' package. In case of Mimosa, 
they actually have an arrangement with one of the coordinators to get the job 
done at a discounted rate. 

So, what I am missing... ? 

Regards. 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
http://www.snappytelecom.net 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Chuck McCown" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 4:24:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

> If you are selling radios that need licenses, I would think that perhaps you
> should get some kind of bulk deal and pass the saving along to your customers.
> Radio, antenna, license – all in a package for one simple price.
> Right now we buy the car at one place, then we go across the street and buy
> tires and put them on the car, then we push it to the gas station for gas. 
> Ford
> may not be in the business of refining petroleum or making tires, but can
> certainly drive the car off the lot. And in all cases in recent memory the
> dealership also does everything necessary for obtaining the license plate too.
> From: Faisal Imtiaz
> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 1:40 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
> >>. I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy.
> Here is the part that I love about the WISP's... Everyone is Opinionated to 
> the
> Nth degree without explanation or possible understanding of why they have such
> an opinion. and that is ok, as long as it is expressed in that context ...
> As an engineer, I tend to dismiss all opinions, unless the person offering the
> opinion can offer an explanation which has some sound technical backing to
> support it.. Similarly, I also tend to dismiss the "I love it" opinions, 
> unless
> they are backed up to the reason why.
> I am happy to see lots of options in the market space, no one can please
> everyone . FWIW, We use gear from many different mfg. each for their
> strengths, and not their weaknesses. We find that each of these products shine
> in the different ares of the three common requirement that everyone has.. 
> Needs
> to be Good Quality, Fast Performance, and Cost Effective..
> In regards to the debate about Freq., I will suggest to the OP that do a 
> little
> bit of reading on the fade characteristics of different Freq. is, this is
> physics, and totally vendor agnostic, and this will greatly help you in 
> gaining
> a better understanding of what is the difference one can expect between
> 24Gz/23GHZ/18GHZ/11GHZ/6GHZ etc.. for their deployment region.. (I agree with
> Steve, in regards to the missing context of rain zone, and I also agree with
> Mike H.. that Rain zone's are a rough guide, not an absolute ref ).
> I am a bit puzzled about Chuck M's comment about the Cost of License being 
> high
> ? and a desire to purchase a 'bundle' which includes coordination etc... I
> would like to see if Chuck can elaborate a bit more on this...
> :)
> Happy Weekend.
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> http://www.snappytelecom.net

> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

>> From: "Steve Jones" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 11:25:17 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

>> I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy. I havent seen much bad about the
>> 5ghz stuff
>> On Feb 11, 2018 9:47 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote:

>>> Mimosa 5 GHz works great for me. Don't use shit antennas.

>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions

>>> Midwest Internet Exchange

>>> The Brothers WISP

>>> From: "Steve Jones" < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com >
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 12:34:23 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

>>> Seriously, these questions, please, please, please! State your rain region.
>>> Here,. id like to punch anybody in the eye who lies to you and tells you 24 
>>> GHZ
>>> is a good idea over 1.2 miles ( I dont care the KM Im mercan) but some guy 
>>> in a
>>> desert might tell you its an awesome idea at 6 miles, I dont care about him
>>> here, he doesnt care about me there. If you get into the higher frequencies
>>> yout rain zone, it really matters.
>>> but when it works, it works, and in 24 GHZ right now, theres nothing on th
>>> market that compares to AF,

Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[Josh Reynolds]

Except in the case of the licenses, that is done by the federal government
- a non business entity.

Not sure license fees with the FCC are up for negotiation, unless you have
your own army of lobbyists.

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 3:24 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> If you are selling radios that need licenses, I would think that perhaps
> you should get some kind of bulk deal and pass the saving along to your
> customers.  Radio, antenna, license – all in a package for one simple
> price.
>
> Right now we buy the car at one place, then we go across the street and
> buy tires and put them on the car, then we push it to the gas station for
> gas.  Ford may not be in the business of refining petroleum or making
> tires, but can certainly drive the car off the lot.  And in all cases in
> recent memory the dealership also does everything necessary for obtaining
> the license plate too.
>
> *From:* Faisal Imtiaz
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 11, 2018 1:40 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
>
> >>.I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy.
>
> Here is the part that I love about the WISP's... Everyone is Opinionated
> to the Nth degree without explanation or possible understanding of why they
> have such an opinion. and that is ok, as long as it is expressed in
> that context ...
>
> As an engineer, I tend to dismiss all opinions, unless the person offering
> the opinion can offer an explanation which has some sound technical backing
> to support it.. Similarly, I also tend to dismiss the "I love it" opinions,
> unless they are backed up to the reason why.
>
> I am happy to see lots of options in the market space, no one can please
> everyone . FWIW, We use gear from many different mfg. each for their
> strengths, and not their weaknesses. We find that each of these products
> shine in the different ares of the three common requirement that everyone
> has.. Needs to be Good Quality, Fast Performance, and Cost Effective..
>
> In regards to the debate about Freq., I will suggest to the OP that do a
> little bit of reading on the fade characteristics of different Freq. is,
> this is physics, and totally vendor agnostic, and this will greatly help
> you in  gaining  a better understanding of what is the difference one can
> expect between 24Gz/23GHZ/18GHZ/11GHZ/6GHZ etc.. for their deployment
> region.. (I agree with Steve, in regards to the missing context of rain
> zone, and I also agree with Mike H.. that Rain zone's are a rough guide,
> not an absolute ref  ).
>
> I am a bit puzzled about Chuck M's comment about the Cost of License being
> high ? and a desire to purchase a 'bundle' which includes coordination
> etc... I would like to see if Chuck can elaborate a bit more on this...
>
> :)
>
> Happy Weekend.
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> http://www.snappytelecom.net
>
> Tel: 305 663 5518 <(305)%20663-5518> x 232
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <(305)%20663-5518> Option 2 or Email:
> supp...@snappytelecom.net
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Sunday, February 11, 2018 11:25:17 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
>
> I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy. I havent seen much bad about
> the 5ghz stuff
>
> On Feb 11, 2018 9:47 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
>> Mimosa 5 GHz works great for me. Don't use shit antennas.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Sunday, February 11, 2018 12:34:23 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
>>
>> Seriously, these questions, please, please, please! State your rain
>> region. Here,. id like to punch anybody in the eye who lies to you and
>> tells you 24 GHZ is a good idea over 1.2 miles ( I dont care the KM 

Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[Chuck McCown]

If you are selling radios that need licenses, I would think that perhaps you 
should get some kind of bulk deal and pass the saving along to your customers.  
Radio, antenna, license – all in a package for one simple price.  

Right now we buy the car at one place, then we go across the street and buy 
tires and put them on the car, then we push it to the gas station for gas.  
Ford may not be in the business of refining petroleum or making tires, but can 
certainly drive the car off the lot.  And in all cases in recent memory the 
dealership also does everything necessary for obtaining the license plate too.  

From: Faisal Imtiaz 
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 1:40 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

>>.I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy. 

Here is the part that I love about the WISP's... Everyone is Opinionated to the 
Nth degree without explanation or possible understanding of why they have such 
an opinion. and that is ok, as long as it is expressed in that context ... 

As an engineer, I tend to dismiss all opinions, unless the person offering the 
opinion can offer an explanation which has some sound technical backing to 
support it.. Similarly, I also tend to dismiss the "I love it" opinions, unless 
they are backed up to the reason why.

I am happy to see lots of options in the market space, no one can please 
everyone . FWIW, We use gear from many different mfg. each for their 
strengths, and not their weaknesses. We find that each of these products shine 
in the different ares of the three common requirement that everyone has.. Needs 
to be Good Quality, Fast Performance, and Cost Effective..

In regards to the debate about Freq., I will suggest to the OP that do a little 
bit of reading on the fade characteristics of different Freq. is, this is 
physics, and totally vendor agnostic, and this will greatly help you in  
gaining  a better understanding of what is the difference one can expect 
between 24Gz/23GHZ/18GHZ/11GHZ/6GHZ etc.. for their deployment region.. (I 
agree with Steve, in regards to the missing context of rain zone, and I also 
agree with Mike H.. that Rain zone's are a rough guide, not an absolute ref  ).

I am a bit puzzled about Chuck M's comment about the Cost of License being high 
? and a desire to purchase a 'bundle' which includes coordination etc... I 
would like to see if Chuck can elaborate a bit more on this... 

:)

Happy Weekend.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net




  From: "Steve Jones" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 11:25:17 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

  I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy. I havent seen much bad about the 
5ghz stuff

  On Feb 11, 2018 9:47 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

Mimosa 5 GHz works great for me. Don't use shit antennas.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Steve Jones" 
    To: af@afmug.com
    Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 12:34:23 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz


Seriously, these questions, please, please, please! State your rain region. 
Here,. id like to punch anybody in the eye who lies to you and tells you 24 GHZ 
is a good idea over 1.2 miles ( I dont care the KM Im mercan) but some guy in a 
desert might tell you its an awesome idea at 6 miles, I dont care about him 
here, he doesnt care about me there. If you get into the higher frequencies 
yout rain zone, it really matters. 
but when it works, it works, and in 24 GHZ right now, theres nothing on th 
market that compares to AF, even if you skimp on the HD. Literally nothing 
Ive looked. you can pay 10k with the other actual carrier classes for 200mb... 
just not worth it, if 24 works to go anywhere else. You have to remember, UBNT 
24ghz (airfiber) is NOT a UBNT product, its a Motorola product. Just before 
Motorola shit canned, UBNT bought \theirguys. 

11ghz, totally different beast. you OWN the channel, and you can be a dick 
about it. Like central Illinois wanting to put up a link. If your in central 
Indiana, you can contest... This is fact, we just had to trade off 10db to get 
a link because it was contested 100 miles away, because our max EIRP could 
impact that link during its lowest rain fade hundreds of miles away. Im not 
complaining, if I had their GIS and hired guns, I would have done it too.

however, I literally can come in across the street on your 24 ghz link, put 
it on the same channel as you and just pump out on maximum power all day. You 
know what you can do? you can 

Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[Faisal Imtiaz]

>>. I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy. 

Here is the part that I love about the WISP's... Everyone is Opinionated to the 
Nth degree without explanation or possible understanding of why they have such 
an opinion. and that is ok, as long as it is expressed in that context ... 

As an engineer, I tend to dismiss all opinions, unless the person offering the 
opinion can offer an explanation which has some sound technical backing to 
support it.. Similarly, I also tend to dismiss the "I love it" opinions, unless 
they are backed up to the reason why. 

I am happy to see lots of options in the market space, no one can please 
everyone . FWIW, We use gear from many different mfg. each for their 
strengths, and not their weaknesses. We find that each of these products shine 
in the different ares of the three common requirement that everyone has.. Needs 
to be Good Quality, Fast Performance, and Cost Effective.. 

In regards to the debate about Freq., I will suggest to the OP that do a little 
bit of reading on the fade characteristics of different Freq. is, this is 
physics, and totally vendor agnostic, and this will greatly help you in gaining 
a better understanding of what is the difference one can expect between 
24Gz/23GHZ/18GHZ/11GHZ/6GHZ etc.. for their deployment region.. (I agree with 
Steve, in regards to the missing context of rain zone, and I also agree with 
Mike H.. that Rain zone's are a rough guide, not an absolute ref ). 

I am a bit puzzled about Chuck M's comment about the Cost of License being high 
? and a desire to purchase a 'bundle' which includes coordination etc... I 
would like to see if Chuck can elaborate a bit more on this... 

:) 

Happy Weekend. 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
http://www.snappytelecom.net 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Steve Jones" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 11:25:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

> I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy. I havent seen much bad about the
> 5ghz stuff

> On Feb 11, 2018 9:47 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote:

>> Mimosa 5 GHz works great for me. Don't use shit antennas.

>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions

>> Midwest Internet Exchange

>> The Brothers WISP

>> From: "Steve Jones" < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com >
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 12:34:23 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

>> Seriously, these questions, please, please, please! State your rain region.
>> Here,. id like to punch anybody in the eye who lies to you and tells you 24 
>> GHZ
>> is a good idea over 1.2 miles ( I dont care the KM Im mercan) but some guy 
>> in a
>> desert might tell you its an awesome idea at 6 miles, I dont care about him
>> here, he doesnt care about me there. If you get into the higher frequencies
>> yout rain zone, it really matters.
>> but when it works, it works, and in 24 GHZ right now, theres nothing on th
>> market that compares to AF, even if you skimp on the HD. Literally 
>> nothing
>> Ive looked. you can pay 10k with the other actual carrier classes for 
>> 200mb...
>> just not worth it, if 24 works to go anywhere else. You have to remember, 
>> UBNT
>> 24ghz (airfiber) is NOT a UBNT product, its a Motorola product. Just before
>> Motorola shit canned, UBNT bought \theirguys.

>> 11ghz, totally different beast. you OWN the channel, and you can be a dick 
>> about
>> it. Like central Illinois wanting to put up a link. If your in central 
>> Indiana,
>> you can contest... This is fact, we just had to trade off 10db to get a link
>> because it was contested 100 miles away, because our max EIRP could impact 
>> that
>> link during its lowest rain fade hundreds of miles away. Im not complaining, 
>> if
>> I had their GIS and hired guns, I would have done it too.

>> however, I literally can come in across the street on your 24 ghz link, put 
>> it
>> on the same channel as you and just pump out on maximum power all day. You 
>> know
>> what you can do? you can go to Starbucks, get yourelf a nice double frappe
>> vanilla bean, half caf, choco humpagoat with double froth, and take it to 
>> your
>> shop, set it in the middle of your chair and sit on it while humming Mary 
>> had a
>> little lamb. Thats it, thats the end of your recourse.

>> And dont ever talk about Mimosa again. Its garbage. If I was going to put
>> another link up outside of what I can do again, I wouldnt touch Mimosa, not 
>> if
>> th

Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[Steve Jones]

I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy. I havent seen much bad about
the 5ghz stuff

On Feb 11, 2018 9:47 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> Mimosa 5 GHz works great for me. Don't use shit antennas.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ------------------
> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Sunday, February 11, 2018 12:34:23 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
>
> Seriously, these questions, please, please, please! State your rain
> region. Here,. id like to punch anybody in the eye who lies to you and
> tells you 24 GHZ is a good idea over 1.2 miles ( I dont care the KM Im
> mercan) but some guy in a desert might tell you its an awesome idea at 6
> miles, I dont care about him here, he doesnt care about me there. If you
> get into the higher frequencies yout rain zone, it really matters.
> but when it works, it works, and in 24 GHZ right now, theres nothing on th
> market that compares to AF, even if you skimp on the HD. Literally
> nothing Ive looked. you can pay 10k with the other actual carrier
> classes for 200mb... just not worth it, if 24 works to go anywhere else.
> You have to remember, UBNT 24ghz (airfiber) is NOT a UBNT product, its a
> Motorola product. Just before Motorola shit canned, UBNT bought \theirguys.
>
> 11ghz, totally different beast. you OWN the channel, and you can be a dick
> about it. Like central Illinois wanting to put up a link. If your in
> central Indiana, you can contest... This is fact, we just had to trade off
> 10db to get a link because it was contested 100 miles away, because our max
> EIRP could impact that link during its lowest rain fade hundreds of miles
> away. Im not complaining, if I had their GIS and hired guns, I would have
> done it too.
>
> however, I literally can come in across the street on your 24 ghz link,
> put it on the same channel as you and just pump out on maximum power all
> day. You know what you can do? you can go to Starbucks, get yourelf a nice
> double frappe vanilla bean, half caf, choco humpagoat with double froth,
> and take it to your shop, set it in the middle of your chair and sit on it
> while humming Mary had a little lamb. Thats it, thats the end of your
> recourse.
>
> And dont ever talk about Mimosa again. Its garbage. If I was going to put
> another link up outside of what I can do again, I wouldnt touch Mimosa, not
> if the Mimosa CEO sent their grandmother to service me and thirteen of my
> friends. The only reason to put Mimosa up beyond 3 miles is to lawfully
> squat some spectrum on the cheap.
>
> FWIW
>
> Harshish words, I know, but this is all stuff I learned the hard way, Im
> only a decade into this nonsense, I wish some prick had shown up and
> smacked me like a wife who didnt have the pot pies in the oven on time long
> before I made some bad decisions, You have to treat all your gear like a
> woman. Know where you are and what her scope is in that area. Dont go full
> bukakee on a housewife.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 11:13 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> Our experience has been we get more throughput and more reliability from
>> the AF11 than the B11. The B11s always seemed to be choking on high
>> throughput. We gave up on them, and the AF11s are easier to license in
>> congested areas anyway.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 2/10/2018 5:12 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>>
>> Yes, the AF11 can do more throughput on the same spectrum compared to the
>> B11, but the B11 can use more spectrum (a lot more, granted), so it can do
>> more throughput than the AF11 can. You can get close to a full gig in one
>> direction with the B11 (assuming you can license enough spectrum), but you
>> can only get around 650Mbps in one direction with the AF11 (it's a real
>> full duplex radio though, so aggregate isn't that much different if you
>> need a 50/50 split).
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 6:56 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>> What o

Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[Mike Hammett]

Mimosa 5 GHz works great for me. Don't use shit antennas. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Steve Jones"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 12:34:23 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz 


Seriously, these questions, please, please, please! State your rain region. 
Here,. id like to punch anybody in the eye who lies to you and tells you 24 GHZ 
is a good idea over 1.2 miles ( I dont care the KM Im mercan) but some guy in a 
desert might tell you its an awesome idea at 6 miles, I dont care about him 
here, he doesnt care about me there. If you get into the higher frequencies 
yout rain zone, it really matters. 
but when it works, it works, and in 24 GHZ right now, theres nothing on th 
market that compares to AF, even if you skimp on the HD. Literally nothing 
Ive looked. you can pay 10k with the other actual carrier classes for 200mb... 
just not worth it, if 24 works to go anywhere else. You have to remember, UBNT 
24ghz (airfiber) is NOT a UBNT product, its a Motorola product. Just before 
Motorola shit canned, UBNT bought \theirguys. 


11ghz, totally different beast. you OWN the channel, and you can be a dick 
about it. Like central Illinois wanting to put up a link. If your in central 
Indiana, you can contest... This is fact, we just had to trade off 10db to get 
a link because it was contested 100 miles away, because our max EIRP could 
impact that link during its lowest rain fade hundreds of miles away. Im not 
complaining, if I had their GIS and hired guns, I would have done it too. 


however, I literally can come in across the street on your 24 ghz link, put it 
on the same channel as you and just pump out on maximum power all day. You know 
what you can do? you can go to Starbucks, get yourelf a nice double frappe 
vanilla bean, half caf, choco humpagoat with double froth, and take it to your 
shop, set it in the middle of your chair and sit on it while humming Mary had a 
little lamb. Thats it, thats the end of your recourse. 


And dont ever talk about Mimosa again. Its garbage. If I was going to put 
another link up outside of what I can do again, I wouldnt touch Mimosa, not if 
the Mimosa CEO sent their grandmother to service me and thirteen of my friends. 
The only reason to put Mimosa up beyond 3 miles is to lawfully squat some 
spectrum on the cheap. 


FWIW 


Harshish words, I know, but this is all stuff I learned the hard way, Im only a 
decade into this nonsense, I wish some prick had shown up and smacked me like a 
wife who didnt have the pot pies in the oven on time long before I made some 
bad decisions, You have to treat all your gear like a woman. Know where you are 
and what her scope is in that area. Dont go full bukakee on a housewife. 







On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 11:13 PM, Bill Prince < part15...@gmail.com > wrote: 




Our experience has been we get more throughput and more reliability from the 
AF11 than the B11. The B11s always seemed to be choking on high throughput. We 
gave up on them, and the AF11s are easier to license in congested areas anyway. 


bp
 


On 2/10/2018 5:12 PM, Mathew Howard wrote: 



Yes, the AF11 can do more throughput on the same spectrum compared to the B11, 
but the B11 can use more spectrum (a lot more, granted), so it can do more 
throughput than the AF11 can. You can get close to a full gig in one direction 
with the B11 (assuming you can license enough spectrum), but you can only get 
around 650Mbps in one direction with the AF11 (it's a real full duplex radio 
though, so aggregate isn't that much different if you need a 50/50 split). 


On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 6:56 PM, Bill Prince < part15...@gmail.com > wrote: 




What others have said about distance. Short (up to 3 miles or so) 24 GHz. 
Medium (up to 8-9 miles) 18 GHz. Long (up to 20 miles) 11 GHz. Longest 6 GHz. 
I disagree with the B11 versus AF11. The AF11 will provide more throughput on 
less spectrum. Probably less expensive too. 

bp
 
On 2/10/2018 2:57 PM, David Coudron wrote: 




I know this topic has come up before, but thought I would throw it out again to 
hear additional thoughts as products continue to evolve.�� We have been 
doing primarily 5 GHz backhaul using Mimosa products for the last couple of 
years.�� Their frequency reuse has really helped us, but we are starting to 
see more locations that have lots of noise.�� We�d like to make the jump 
to higher frequencies and are looking at 11 GHz and 24 GHz for that.�� The 
links we need are fairly short, 6-10 miles max, which pushes the limits of the 
24 GHz solutions, but with a very clean line of site we think we are in range 
for the links we are looking at as far as the design tools tell us.�� For 
11 GHz, we would likely stay with the Mimosa product line, we know it pretty 
well and have all the management tools in 

Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[Mike Hammett]

Rain regions are pure shit if you actually care about being accurate in your 
rain fade\downtime calculations. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Steve Jones"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 12:34:23 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz 


Seriously, these questions, please, please, please! State your rain region. 
Here,. id like to punch anybody in the eye who lies to you and tells you 24 GHZ 
is a good idea over 1.2 miles ( I dont care the KM Im mercan) but some guy in a 
desert might tell you its an awesome idea at 6 miles, I dont care about him 
here, he doesnt care about me there. If you get into the higher frequencies 
yout rain zone, it really matters. 
but when it works, it works, and in 24 GHZ right now, theres nothing on th 
market that compares to AF, even if you skimp on the HD. Literally nothing 
Ive looked. you can pay 10k with the other actual carrier classes for 200mb... 
just not worth it, if 24 works to go anywhere else. You have to remember, UBNT 
24ghz (airfiber) is NOT a UBNT product, its a Motorola product. Just before 
Motorola shit canned, UBNT bought \theirguys. 


11ghz, totally different beast. you OWN the channel, and you can be a dick 
about it. Like central Illinois wanting to put up a link. If your in central 
Indiana, you can contest... This is fact, we just had to trade off 10db to get 
a link because it was contested 100 miles away, because our max EIRP could 
impact that link during its lowest rain fade hundreds of miles away. Im not 
complaining, if I had their GIS and hired guns, I would have done it too. 


however, I literally can come in across the street on your 24 ghz link, put it 
on the same channel as you and just pump out on maximum power all day. You know 
what you can do? you can go to Starbucks, get yourelf a nice double frappe 
vanilla bean, half caf, choco humpagoat with double froth, and take it to your 
shop, set it in the middle of your chair and sit on it while humming Mary had a 
little lamb. Thats it, thats the end of your recourse. 


And dont ever talk about Mimosa again. Its garbage. If I was going to put 
another link up outside of what I can do again, I wouldnt touch Mimosa, not if 
the Mimosa CEO sent their grandmother to service me and thirteen of my friends. 
The only reason to put Mimosa up beyond 3 miles is to lawfully squat some 
spectrum on the cheap. 


FWIW 


Harshish words, I know, but this is all stuff I learned the hard way, Im only a 
decade into this nonsense, I wish some prick had shown up and smacked me like a 
wife who didnt have the pot pies in the oven on time long before I made some 
bad decisions, You have to treat all your gear like a woman. Know where you are 
and what her scope is in that area. Dont go full bukakee on a housewife. 







On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 11:13 PM, Bill Prince < part15...@gmail.com > wrote: 




Our experience has been we get more throughput and more reliability from the 
AF11 than the B11. The B11s always seemed to be choking on high throughput. We 
gave up on them, and the AF11s are easier to license in congested areas anyway. 


bp
 


On 2/10/2018 5:12 PM, Mathew Howard wrote: 



Yes, the AF11 can do more throughput on the same spectrum compared to the B11, 
but the B11 can use more spectrum (a lot more, granted), so it can do more 
throughput than the AF11 can. You can get close to a full gig in one direction 
with the B11 (assuming you can license enough spectrum), but you can only get 
around 650Mbps in one direction with the AF11 (it's a real full duplex radio 
though, so aggregate isn't that much different if you need a 50/50 split). 


On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 6:56 PM, Bill Prince < part15...@gmail.com > wrote: 




What others have said about distance. Short (up to 3 miles or so) 24 GHz. 
Medium (up to 8-9 miles) 18 GHz. Long (up to 20 miles) 11 GHz. Longest 6 GHz. 
I disagree with the B11 versus AF11. The AF11 will provide more throughput on 
less spectrum. Probably less expensive too. 

bp
 
On 2/10/2018 2:57 PM, David Coudron wrote: 




I know this topic has come up before, but thought I would throw it out again to 
hear additional thoughts as products continue to evolve.�� We have been 
doing primarily 5 GHz backhaul using Mimosa products for the last couple of 
years.�� Their frequency reuse has really helped us, but we are starting to 
see more locations that have lots of noise.�� We�d like to make the jump 
to higher frequencies and are looking at 11 GHz and 24 GHz for that.�� The 
links we need are fairly short, 6-10 miles max, which pushes the limits of the 
24 GHz solutions, but with a very clean line of site we think we are in range 
for the links we are looking at as far as the design tools tell us.�� For 
11 GHz, we would likely stay with the Mimosa product line, we know 

Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[Mike Hammett]

https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1152763711515746 


https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/956205354504917 

Use those to provide some accuracy to your rain fade estimates. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "David Coudron"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 4:57:39 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz 



I know this topic has come up before, but thought I would throw it out again to 
hear additional thoughts as products continue to evolve. We have been doing 
primarily 5 GHz backhaul using Mimosa products for the last couple of years. 
Their frequency reuse has really helped us, but we are starting to see more 
locations that have lots of noise. We’d like to make the jump to higher 
frequencies and are looking at 11 GHz and 24 GHz for that. The links we need 
are fairly short, 6-10 miles max, which pushes the limits of the 24 GHz 
solutions, but with a very clean line of site we think we are in range for the 
links we are looking at as far as the design tools tell us. For 11 GHz, we 
would likely stay with the Mimosa product line, we know it pretty well and have 
all the management tools in place for it. For 24 GHz we’d likely go with the 
Ubiquiti AF 24 or AF 24 HD. We have worked with Ubiquiti stuff here and there, 
and just don’t have much familiarity with any other options outside of 
AirFiber. Here is where we see the Pros and Cons of the two options: 

Mimosa 11 GHz Pros: 

1. Licensed, should be clean spectrum for the full term of the license and 
require less babysitting for interference 
2. Should support longer links, but that isn’t a big consideration for us 
as it looks like everything we will need is under the limits of the HD for sure 
and likely the AF 24 as well 
3. Little less susceptible to rain fade 


Cons: 

1. Have to mess around with the license and there is a cost associated with 
it 
2. Have to buy the dish separately, and know which to use before applying 
for the license 
3. Not quite as much throughput (when compared to the AF 24 HD) 
4. More expensive that the AF 24 (but likely a little less than the HD) 



Ubiquiti AF 24 Pros: 

1. All in one unit, easy to figure out what to have on hand for all links 
2. No messing around with licenses, making it much quicker to deploy 
3. Higher throughput on the HD 


Cons: 

1. Unlicensed. Might fight other noise out there, and even quiet links now 
might have noise later 
2. Not as familiar with this tool set as we are with Mimosa, although this 
isn’t a big consideration as we have worked with lots of Ubiquiti products 
3. Cost of HD is pretty high for an unlicensed link 


Here are some questions we are hoping for help with: 

1. How much room in the unlicensed band is there to move channels if you 
see other noise out there? We have been looking but are finding it tough to 
figure out if we run wide channels, and see noise, will we be able to move to 
other channels. 
2. Is it reasonable to think you can push 1.2 aggregate IP traffic across 
any of the three options B11, AF24 or AF24HD? Seems like a well planned link 
with great line of site at 6 miles should be able to, but looking for some real 
world experience. 
3. Any oddball items we should take into consideration other than the ones 
already mentioned here? Or are we missing some obvious questions? 


Thanks, 

David Coudron 

Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[Rory Conaway]

We are getting ready to do a lot of these and will be using 18GHz.  I’m not 
agreeing with Steve on the Mimosa gear, I’ve got several B11’s up, one as far 
as 50 miles.  If you are limited to 40MHz, then Ubiquiti is more efficient.  If 
you have 80MHz, then Mimosa, at least until Bridgewave comes out with their new 
Navigator.  However, they were a year behind Mimosa so a lot of spectrum was 
used and reserved before that option became available.

11GHz is pretty much hammered in the areas that we are in so 18GHz looks a lot 
more attractive for 5-7 miles for now.

Rory



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of David Coudron
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 7:08 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

Hey guys,

Thanks a ton for the input.  Looks like we got oversold on the distance from 
the link planning tools for 24 GHz.   This conversation has been really 
helpful, although I had to call over 3 different people to help interpret 
Steve’s reply 😊   Once they stopped laughing at this thread and the “tying down 
wires” reply, we got it figured out.

For us, our links are mostly in the 6 mile or a little over 6 mile range.  
Sounds like 11 GHz is the right move.

Much appreciated.

David Coudron


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 11:13 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz


Our experience has been we get more throughput and more reliability from the 
AF11 than the B11. The B11s always seemed to be choking on high throughput. We 
gave up on them, and the AF11s are easier to license in congested areas anyway.



bp




On 2/10/2018 5:12 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
Yes, the AF11 can do more throughput on the same spectrum compared to the B11, 
but the B11 can use more spectrum (a lot more, granted), so it can do more 
throughput than the AF11 can. You can get close to a full gig in one direction 
with the B11 (assuming you can license enough spectrum), but you can only get 
around 650Mbps in one direction with the AF11 (it's a real full duplex radio 
though, so aggregate isn't that much different if you need a 50/50 split).

On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 6:56 PM, Bill Prince 
mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

What others have said about distance. Short (up to 3 miles or so) 24 GHz. 
Medium (up to 8-9 miles) 18 GHz. Long (up to 20 miles) 11 GHz. Longest 6 GHz.

I disagree with the B11 versus AF11. The AF11 will provide more throughput on 
less spectrum. Probably less expensive too.



bp




On 2/10/2018 2:57 PM, David Coudron wrote:
I know this topic has come up before, but thought I would throw it out again to 
hear additional thoughts as products continue to evolve.�� We have been 
doing primarily 5 GHz backhaul using Mimosa products for the last couple of 
years.�� Their frequency reuse has really helped us, but we are starting to 
see more locations that have lots of noise.�� We�d like to make the jump 
to higher frequencies and are looking at 11 GHz and 24 GHz for that.�� The 
links we need are fairly short, 6-10 miles max, which pushes the limits of the 
24 GHz solutions, but with a very clean line of site we think we are in range 
for the links we are looking at as far as the design tools tell us.�� For 
11 GHz, we would likely stay with the Mimosa product line, we know it pretty 
well and have all the management tools in place for it.�� For 24 GHz we�d 
likely go with the Ubiquiti AF 24 or AF 24 HD.�� We have worked with 
Ubiquiti stuff here and there, and just don�t have much familiarity with any 
other options outside of AirFiber.� Here is where we see the Pros and Cons of 
the two options:
�
Mimosa 11 GHz Pros:

  1.  Licensed, should be clean spectrum for the full term of the license and 
require less babysitting for interference
  2.  Should support longer links, but that isn�t a big consideration for us 
as it looks like everything we will need is under the limits of the HD for sure 
and likely the AF 24 as well
  3.  Little less susceptible to rain fade
�
Cons:

  1.  Have to mess around with the license and there is a cost associated with 
it
  2.  Have to buy the dish separately, and know which to use before applying 
for the license
  3.  Not quite as much throughput (when compared to the AF 24 HD)
  4.  More expensive that the AF 24 (but likely a little less than the HD)
�
�
Ubiquiti AF 24 Pros:

  1.  All in one unit, easy to figure out what to have on hand for all links
  2.  No messing around with licenses, making it much quicker to deploy
  3.  Higher throughput on the HD
�
Cons:

  1.  Unlicensed.� Might fight other noise out there, and even quiet links 
now might have noise later
  2.  Not as familiar with this tool set as we are with Mimosa, although this 
isn�t a big consideration as we have worked with lots of Ubiquiti products
  3.  Cost of HD is pretty high for an unlicensed 

Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[David Coudron]

Hey guys,

Thanks a ton for the input.  Looks like we got oversold on the distance from 
the link planning tools for 24 GHz.   This conversation has been really 
helpful, although I had to call over 3 different people to help interpret 
Steve’s reply 😊   Once they stopped laughing at this thread and the “tying down 
wires” reply, we got it figured out.

For us, our links are mostly in the 6 mile or a little over 6 mile range.  
Sounds like 11 GHz is the right move.

Much appreciated.

David Coudron


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 11:13 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz


Our experience has been we get more throughput and more reliability from the 
AF11 than the B11. The B11s always seemed to be choking on high throughput. We 
gave up on them, and the AF11s are easier to license in congested areas anyway.



bp




On 2/10/2018 5:12 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
Yes, the AF11 can do more throughput on the same spectrum compared to the B11, 
but the B11 can use more spectrum (a lot more, granted), so it can do more 
throughput than the AF11 can. You can get close to a full gig in one direction 
with the B11 (assuming you can license enough spectrum), but you can only get 
around 650Mbps in one direction with the AF11 (it's a real full duplex radio 
though, so aggregate isn't that much different if you need a 50/50 split).

On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 6:56 PM, Bill Prince 
mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

What others have said about distance. Short (up to 3 miles or so) 24 GHz. 
Medium (up to 8-9 miles) 18 GHz. Long (up to 20 miles) 11 GHz. Longest 6 GHz.

I disagree with the B11 versus AF11. The AF11 will provide more throughput on 
less spectrum. Probably less expensive too.



bp




On 2/10/2018 2:57 PM, David Coudron wrote:
I know this topic has come up before, but thought I would throw it out again to 
hear additional thoughts as products continue to evolve.�� We have been 
doing primarily 5 GHz backhaul using Mimosa products for the last couple of 
years.�� Their frequency reuse has really helped us, but we are starting to 
see more locations that have lots of noise.�� We�d like to make the jump 
to higher frequencies and are looking at 11 GHz and 24 GHz for that.�� The 
links we need are fairly short, 6-10 miles max, which pushes the limits of the 
24 GHz solutions, but with a very clean line of site we think we are in range 
for the links we are looking at as far as the design tools tell us.�� For 
11 GHz, we would likely stay with the Mimosa product line, we know it pretty 
well and have all the management tools in place for it.�� For 24 GHz we�d 
likely go with the Ubiquiti AF 24 or AF 24 HD.�� We have worked with 
Ubiquiti stuff here and there, and just don�t have much familiarity with any 
other options outside of AirFiber.� Here is where we see the Pros and Cons of 
the two options:
�
Mimosa 11 GHz Pros:

  1.  Licensed, should be clean spectrum for the full term of the license and 
require less babysitting for interference
  2.  Should support longer links, but that isn�t a big consideration for us 
as it looks like everything we will need is under the limits of the HD for sure 
and likely the AF 24 as well
  3.  Little less susceptible to rain fade
�
Cons:

  1.  Have to mess around with the license and there is a cost associated with 
it
  2.  Have to buy the dish separately, and know which to use before applying 
for the license
  3.  Not quite as much throughput (when compared to the AF 24 HD)
  4.  More expensive that the AF 24 (but likely a little less than the HD)
�
�
Ubiquiti AF 24 Pros:

  1.  All in one unit, easy to figure out what to have on hand for all links
  2.  No messing around with licenses, making it much quicker to deploy
  3.  Higher throughput on the HD
�
Cons:

  1.  Unlicensed.� Might fight other noise out there, and even quiet links 
now might have noise later
  2.  Not as familiar with this tool set as we are with Mimosa, although this 
isn�t a big consideration as we have worked with lots of Ubiquiti products
  3.  Cost of HD is pretty high for an unlicensed link
�
Here are some questions we are hoping for help with:

  1.  How much room in the unlicensed band is there to move channels if you see 
other noise out there?�� We have been looking but are finding it tough to 
figure out if we run wide channels, and see noise, will we be able to move to 
other channels.
  2.  Is it reasonable to think you can push 1.2 aggregate IP traffic across 
any of the three options B11, AF24 or AF24HD?�� Seems like a well planned 
link with great line of site at 6 miles should be able to, but looking for some 
real world experience.
  3.  Any oddball items we should take into consideration other than the ones 
already mentioned here? Or are we missing some obvious questions?
�
Thanks,
�
David Coudron
�

Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[Steve Jones]

...in utah

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 12:33 AM, Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Seriously, these questions, please, please, please! State your rain
> region. Here,. id like to punch anybody in the eye who lies to you and
> tells you 24 GHZ is a good idea over 1.2 miles ( I dont care the KM Im
> mercan) but some guy in a desert might tell you its an awesome idea at 6
> miles, I dont care about him here, he doesnt care about me there. If you
> get into the higher frequencies yout rain zone, it really matters.
> but when it works, it works, and in 24 GHZ right now, theres nothing on th
> market that compares to AF, even if you skimp on the HD. Literally
> nothing Ive looked. you can pay 10k with the other actual carrier
> classes for 200mb... just not worth it, if 24 works to go anywhere else.
> You have to remember, UBNT 24ghz (airfiber) is NOT a UBNT product, its a
> Motorola product. Just before Motorola shit canned, UBNT bought \theirguys.
>
> 11ghz, totally different beast. you OWN the channel, and you can be a dick
> about it. Like central Illinois wanting to put up a link. If your in
> central Indiana, you can contest... This is fact, we just had to trade off
> 10db to get a link because it was contested 100 miles away, because our max
> EIRP could impact that link during its lowest rain fade hundreds of miles
> away. Im not complaining, if I had their GIS and hired guns, I would have
> done it too.
>
> however, I literally can come in across the street on your 24 ghz link,
> put it on the same channel as you and just pump out on maximum power all
> day. You know what you can do? you can go to Starbucks, get yourelf a nice
> double frappe vanilla bean, half caf, choco humpagoat with double froth,
> and take it to your shop, set it in the middle of your chair and sit on it
> while humming Mary had a little lamb. Thats it, thats the end of your
> recourse.
>
> And dont ever talk about Mimosa again. Its garbage. If I was going to put
> another link up outside of what I can do again, I wouldnt touch Mimosa, not
> if the Mimosa CEO sent their grandmother to service me and thirteen of my
> friends. The only reason to put Mimosa up beyond 3 miles is to lawfully
> squat some spectrum on the cheap.
>
> FWIW
>
> Harshish words, I know, but this is all stuff I learned the hard way, Im
> only a decade into this nonsense, I wish some prick had shown up and
> smacked me like a wife who didnt have the pot pies in the oven on time long
> before I made some bad decisions, You have to treat all your gear like a
> woman. Know where you are and what her scope is in that area. Dont go full
> bukakee on a housewife.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 11:13 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> Our experience has been we get more throughput and more reliability from
>> the AF11 than the B11. The B11s always seemed to be choking on high
>> throughput. We gave up on them, and the AF11s are easier to license in
>> congested areas anyway.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 2/10/2018 5:12 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>>
>> Yes, the AF11 can do more throughput on the same spectrum compared to the
>> B11, but the B11 can use more spectrum (a lot more, granted), so it can do
>> more throughput than the AF11 can. You can get close to a full gig in one
>> direction with the B11 (assuming you can license enough spectrum), but you
>> can only get around 650Mbps in one direction with the AF11 (it's a real
>> full duplex radio though, so aggregate isn't that much different if you
>> need a 50/50 split).
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 6:56 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>> What others have said about distance. Short (up to 3 miles or so) 24
>>> GHz. Medium (up to 8-9 miles) 18 GHz. Long (up to 20 miles) 11 GHz. Longest
>>> 6 GHz.
>>>
>>> I disagree with the B11 versus AF11. The AF11 will provide more
>>> throughput on less spectrum. Probably less expensive too.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/10/2018 2:57 PM, David Coudron wrote:
>>>
>>> I know this topic has come up before, but thought I would throw it out
>>> again to hear additional thoughts as products continue to evolve.�� We
>>> have been doing primarily 5 GHz backhaul using Mimosa products for the last
>>> couple of years.�� Their frequency reuse has really helped us, but we
>>> are starting to see more locations that have lots of noise.�� We�d
>>> like to make the jump to higher frequencies and are looking at 11 GHz and
>>> 24 GHz for that.�� The links we need are fairly short, 6-10 miles max,
>>> which pushes the limits of the 24 GHz solutions, but with a very clean line
>>> of site we think we are in range for the links we are looking at as far as
>>> the design tools tell us.�� For 11 GHz, we would likely stay with the
>>> Mimosa product line, we know it pretty well and have all the management
>>> tools in place for it.�� For 24 GHz we�d likely go with the Ubiquiti
>>> AF 24 or AF 24 HD.�� We have worked with Ubiquiti stuff here and there,
>>> and just don�t have much famil

Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[Steve Jones]

Seriously, these questions, please, please, please! State your rain region.
Here,. id like to punch anybody in the eye who lies to you and tells you 24
GHZ is a good idea over 1.2 miles ( I dont care the KM Im mercan) but some
guy in a desert might tell you its an awesome idea at 6 miles, I dont care
about him here, he doesnt care about me there. If you get into the higher
frequencies yout rain zone, it really matters.
but when it works, it works, and in 24 GHZ right now, theres nothing on th
market that compares to AF, even if you skimp on the HD. Literally
nothing Ive looked. you can pay 10k with the other actual carrier
classes for 200mb... just not worth it, if 24 works to go anywhere else.
You have to remember, UBNT 24ghz (airfiber) is NOT a UBNT product, its a
Motorola product. Just before Motorola shit canned, UBNT bought \theirguys.

11ghz, totally different beast. you OWN the channel, and you can be a dick
about it. Like central Illinois wanting to put up a link. If your in
central Indiana, you can contest... This is fact, we just had to trade off
10db to get a link because it was contested 100 miles away, because our max
EIRP could impact that link during its lowest rain fade hundreds of miles
away. Im not complaining, if I had their GIS and hired guns, I would have
done it too.

however, I literally can come in across the street on your 24 ghz link, put
it on the same channel as you and just pump out on maximum power all day.
You know what you can do? you can go to Starbucks, get yourelf a nice
double frappe vanilla bean, half caf, choco humpagoat with double froth,
and take it to your shop, set it in the middle of your chair and sit on it
while humming Mary had a little lamb. Thats it, thats the end of your
recourse.

And dont ever talk about Mimosa again. Its garbage. If I was going to put
another link up outside of what I can do again, I wouldnt touch Mimosa, not
if the Mimosa CEO sent their grandmother to service me and thirteen of my
friends. The only reason to put Mimosa up beyond 3 miles is to lawfully
squat some spectrum on the cheap.

FWIW

Harshish words, I know, but this is all stuff I learned the hard way, Im
only a decade into this nonsense, I wish some prick had shown up and
smacked me like a wife who didnt have the pot pies in the oven on time long
before I made some bad decisions, You have to treat all your gear like a
woman. Know where you are and what her scope is in that area. Dont go full
bukakee on a housewife.



On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 11:13 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:

> Our experience has been we get more throughput and more reliability from
> the AF11 than the B11. The B11s always seemed to be choking on high
> throughput. We gave up on them, and the AF11s are easier to license in
> congested areas anyway.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 2/10/2018 5:12 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>
> Yes, the AF11 can do more throughput on the same spectrum compared to the
> B11, but the B11 can use more spectrum (a lot more, granted), so it can do
> more throughput than the AF11 can. You can get close to a full gig in one
> direction with the B11 (assuming you can license enough spectrum), but you
> can only get around 650Mbps in one direction with the AF11 (it's a real
> full duplex radio though, so aggregate isn't that much different if you
> need a 50/50 split).
>
> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 6:56 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> What others have said about distance. Short (up to 3 miles or so) 24 GHz.
>> Medium (up to 8-9 miles) 18 GHz. Long (up to 20 miles) 11 GHz. Longest 6
>> GHz.
>>
>> I disagree with the B11 versus AF11. The AF11 will provide more
>> throughput on less spectrum. Probably less expensive too.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 2/10/2018 2:57 PM, David Coudron wrote:
>>
>> I know this topic has come up before, but thought I would throw it out
>> again to hear additional thoughts as products continue to evolve.�� We
>> have been doing primarily 5 GHz backhaul using Mimosa products for the last
>> couple of years.�� Their frequency reuse has really helped us, but we
>> are starting to see more locations that have lots of noise.�� We�d
>> like to make the jump to higher frequencies and are looking at 11 GHz and
>> 24 GHz for that.�� The links we need are fairly short, 6-10 miles max,
>> which pushes the limits of the 24 GHz solutions, but with a very clean line
>> of site we think we are in range for the links we are looking at as far as
>> the design tools tell us.�� For 11 GHz, we would likely stay with the
>> Mimosa product line, we know it pretty well and have all the management
>> tools in place for it.�� For 24 GHz we�d likely go with the Ubiquiti
>> AF 24 or AF 24 HD.�� We have worked with Ubiquiti stuff here and there,
>> and just don�t have much familiarity with any other options outside of
>> AirFiber.� Here is where we see the Pros and Cons of the two options:
>>
>> �
>>
>> Mimosa 11 GHz Pros:
>>
>>1. Licensed, should be clean spectrum for t

Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[Bill Prince]

Our experience has been we get more throughput and more reliability from 
the AF11 than the B11. The B11s always seemed to be choking on high 
throughput. We gave up on them, and the AF11s are easier to license in 
congested areas anyway.



bp


On 2/10/2018 5:12 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
Yes, the AF11 can do more throughput on the same spectrum compared to 
the B11, but the B11 can use more spectrum (a lot more, granted), so 
it can do more throughput than the AF11 can. You can get close to a 
full gig in one direction with the B11 (assuming you can license 
enough spectrum), but you can only get around 650Mbps in one direction 
with the AF11 (it's a real full duplex radio though, so aggregate 
isn't that much different if you need a 50/50 split).


On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 6:56 PM, Bill Prince > wrote:


What others have said about distance. Short (up to 3 miles or so)
24 GHz. Medium (up to 8-9 miles) 18 GHz. Long (up to 20 miles) 11
GHz. Longest 6 GHz.

I disagree with the B11 versus AF11. The AF11 will provide more
throughput on less spectrum. Probably less expensive too.


bp


On 2/10/2018 2:57 PM, David Coudron wrote:


I know this topic has come up before, but thought I would throw
it out again to hear additional thoughts as products continue to
evolve.�� We have been doing primarily 5 GHz backhaul using
Mimosa products for the last couple of years.�� Their
frequency reuse has really helped us, but we are starting to see
more locations that have lots of noise.�� We�d like to make
the jump to higher frequencies and are looking at 11 GHz and 24
GHz for that.�� The links we need are fairly short, 6-10
miles max, which pushes the limits of the 24 GHz solutions, but
with a very clean line of site we think we are in range for the
links we are looking at as far as the design tools tell us.��
For 11 GHz, we would likely stay with the Mimosa product line, we
know it pretty well and have all the management tools in place
for it.�� For 24 GHz we�d likely go with the Ubiquiti AF 24
or AF 24 HD.�� We have worked with Ubiquiti stuff here and
there, and just don�t have much familiarity with any other
options outside of AirFiber.� Here is where we see the Pros and
Cons of the two options:

�

Mimosa 11 GHz Pros:

 1. Licensed, should be clean spectrum for the full term of the
license and require less babysitting for interference
 2. Should support longer links, but that isn�t a big
consideration for us as it looks like everything we will need
is under the limits of the HD for sure and likely the AF 24
as well
 3. Little less susceptible to rain fade

�

Cons:

 1. Have to mess around with the license and there is a cost
associated with it
 2. Have to buy the dish separately, and know which to use before
applying for the license
 3. Not quite as much throughput (when compared to the AF 24 HD)
 4. More expensive that the AF 24 (but likely a little less than
the HD)

�

�

Ubiquiti AF 24 Pros:

 1. All in one unit, easy to figure out what to have on hand for
all links
 2. No messing around with licenses, making it much quicker to deploy
 3. Higher throughput on the HD

�

Cons:

 1. Unlicensed.� Might fight other noise out there, and even
quiet links now might have noise later
 2. Not as familiar with this tool set as we are with Mimosa,
although this isn�t a big consideration as we have worked
with lots of Ubiquiti products
 3. Cost of HD is pretty high for an unlicensed link

�

Here are some questions we are hoping for help with:

 1. How much room in the unlicensed band is there to move
channels if you see other noise out there?�� We have been
looking but are finding it tough to figure out if we run wide
channels, and see noise, will we be able to move to other
channels.
 2. Is it reasonable to think you can push 1.2 aggregate IP
traffic across any of the three options B11, AF24 or
AF24HD?�� Seems like a well planned link with great line
of site at 6 miles should be able to, but looking for some
real world experience.
 3. Any oddball items we should take into consideration other
than the ones already mentioned here? Or are we missing some
obvious questions?

�

Thanks,

�

David Coudron

�

Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[Mathew Howard]

Yes, the AF11 can do more throughput on the same spectrum compared to the
B11, but the B11 can use more spectrum (a lot more, granted), so it can do
more throughput than the AF11 can. You can get close to a full gig in one
direction with the B11 (assuming you can license enough spectrum), but you
can only get around 650Mbps in one direction with the AF11 (it's a real
full duplex radio though, so aggregate isn't that much different if you
need a 50/50 split).

On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 6:56 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:

> What others have said about distance. Short (up to 3 miles or so) 24 GHz.
> Medium (up to 8-9 miles) 18 GHz. Long (up to 20 miles) 11 GHz. Longest 6
> GHz.
>
> I disagree with the B11 versus AF11. The AF11 will provide more throughput
> on less spectrum. Probably less expensive too.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 2/10/2018 2:57 PM, David Coudron wrote:
>
> I know this topic has come up before, but thought I would throw it out
> again to hear additional thoughts as products continue to evolve.�� We
> have been doing primarily 5 GHz backhaul using Mimosa products for the last
> couple of years.�� Their frequency reuse has really helped us, but we
> are starting to see more locations that have lots of noise.�� We�d
> like to make the jump to higher frequencies and are looking at 11 GHz and
> 24 GHz for that.�� The links we need are fairly short, 6-10 miles max,
> which pushes the limits of the 24 GHz solutions, but with a very clean line
> of site we think we are in range for the links we are looking at as far as
> the design tools tell us.�� For 11 GHz, we would likely stay with the
> Mimosa product line, we know it pretty well and have all the management
> tools in place for it.�� For 24 GHz we�d likely go with the Ubiquiti
> AF 24 or AF 24 HD.�� We have worked with Ubiquiti stuff here and there,
> and just don�t have much familiarity with any other options outside of
> AirFiber.� Here is where we see the Pros and Cons of the two options:
>
> �
>
> Mimosa 11 GHz Pros:
>
>1. Licensed, should be clean spectrum for the full term of the license
>and require less babysitting for interference
>2. Should support longer links, but that isn�t a big consideration
>for us as it looks like everything we will need is under the limits of the
>HD for sure and likely the AF 24 as well
>3. Little less susceptible to rain fade
>
> �
>
> Cons:
>
>1. Have to mess around with the license and there is a cost associated
>with it
>2. Have to buy the dish separately, and know which to use before
>applying for the license
>3. Not quite as much throughput (when compared to the AF 24 HD)
>4. More expensive that the AF 24 (but likely a little less than the HD)
>
> �
>
> �
>
> Ubiquiti AF 24 Pros:
>
>1. All in one unit, easy to figure out what to have on hand for all
>links
>2. No messing around with licenses, making it much quicker to deploy
>3. Higher throughput on the HD
>
> �
>
> Cons:
>
>1. Unlicensed.� Might fight other noise out there, and even quiet
>links now might have noise later
>2. Not as familiar with this tool set as we are with Mimosa, although
>this isn�t a big consideration as we have worked with lots of Ubiquiti
>products
>3. Cost of HD is pretty high for an unlicensed link
>
> �
>
> Here are some questions we are hoping for help with:
>
>1. How much room in the unlicensed band is there to move channels if
>you see other noise out there?�� We have been looking but are finding
>it tough to figure out if we run wide channels, and see noise, will we be
>able to move to other channels.
>2. Is it reasonable to think you can push 1.2 aggregate IP traffic
>across any of the three options B11, AF24 or AF24HD?�� Seems like a
>well planned link with great line of site at 6 miles should be able to, but
>looking for some real world experience.
>3. Any oddball items we should take into consideration other than the
>ones already mentioned here? Or are we missing some obvious questions?
>
> �
>
> Thanks,
>
> �
>
> David Coudron
>
> �
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[Mathew Howard]

Yeah... a 6 mile 24ghz link would probably work, but it's going to be
dropping pretty much every time it rains... and I'd be kind of surprised if
you could even get airfiber 24s to link at 10 miles. Interference isn't
really something you typically have to worry about on 24ghz, even though
it's unlicensed, but even if will work at those distances, you aren't going
to be happy with it in the long run.

You can get 1.2Gbps aggregate out of any of those radios, depending on the
trafiic split... AF24 will only do a bit over 700Mbps each direction, but
it is full duplex, so it can do about 1.5Gbps aggregate, AF24HD can
theoretically do 1Gbps full duplex for 2Gbps aggregate (although I suspect
you wouldn't get full modulation at 6 miles), and the B11 is probably
capable of right around 1.2Gbps aggregate (maybe even a bit more)... unlike
the others, it's a half duplex radio, but it can get pretty close to 1Gbps
in one direction (but not both directions at once).

On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 6:13 PM, Faisal Imtiaz 
wrote:

> 11Ghz  6-10 miles
> 24GZ   good for 1-2miles in high rain fade areas,  longer distance if you
> have backup and don't care about rain fade.
>
> >>>For 11 GHz, we would likely stay with the Mimosa product line 
> Not a bad decision, depending on channel availability don't chalk off the
> AF11x...smaller channels AF11x pushes more bw.
>
> >>For 24 GHz we’d likely go with the Ubiquiti AF 24 or AF 24 HD.
> Cannot go wrong with these but  . if you like the orange
> logo Wait for it... Wait for it  not too far out .. !.;)
>
> Regards
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> http://www.snappytelecom.net
>
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 <(305)%20663-5518>
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <(305)%20663-5518> Option 2 or Email:
> supp...@snappytelecom.net
>
> --
>
> *From: *"David Coudron" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Saturday, February 10, 2018 5:57:40 PM
>
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
>
> I know this topic has come up before, but thought I would throw it out
> again to hear additional thoughts as products continue to evolve.   We have
> been doing primarily 5 GHz backhaul using Mimosa products for the last
> couple of years.   Their frequency reuse has really helped us, but we are
> starting to see more locations that have lots of noise.   We’d like to make
> the jump to higher frequencies and are looking at 11 GHz and 24 GHz for
> that.   The links we need are fairly short, 6-10 miles max, which pushes
> the limits of the 24 GHz solutions, but with a very clean line of site we
> think we are in range for the links we are looking at as far as the design
> tools tell us.   For 11 GHz, we would likely stay with the Mimosa product
> line, we know it pretty well and have all the management tools in place for
> it.   For 24 GHz we’d likely go with the Ubiquiti AF 24 or AF 24 HD.   We
> have worked with Ubiquiti stuff here and there, and just don’t have much
> familiarity with any other options outside of AirFiber.  Here is where we
> see the Pros and Cons of the two options:
>
>
>
> Mimosa 11 GHz Pros:
>
>1. Licensed, should be clean spectrum for the full term of the license
>and require less babysitting for interference
>2. Should support longer links, but that isn’t a big consideration for
>us as it looks like everything we will need is under the limits of the HD
>for sure and likely the AF 24 as well
>3. Little less susceptible to rain fade
>
>
>
> Cons:
>
>1. Have to mess around with the license and there is a cost associated
>with it
>2. Have to buy the dish separately, and know which to use before
>applying for the license
>3. Not quite as much throughput (when compared to the AF 24 HD)
>4. More expensive that the AF 24 (but likely a little less than the HD)
>
>
>
>
>
> Ubiquiti AF 24 Pros:
>
>1. All in one unit, easy to figure out what to have on hand for all
>links
>2. No messing around with licenses, making it much quicker to deploy
>3. Higher throughput on the HD
>
>
>
> Cons:
>
>1. Unlicensed.  Might fight other noise out there, and even quiet
>links now might have noise later
>2. Not as familiar with this tool set as we are with Mimosa, although
>this isn’t a big consideration as we have worked with lots of Ubiquiti
>products
>3. Cost of HD is pretty high for an unlicensed link
>
>
>
> Here are some questions we are hoping for help with:
>
>1. How much room in the unlicensed band is there to move channels if
>you see other noise out there?   We have been looking but are finding it
>tough to figure out if we run wide channels, and see noise, will we be able
>to move to other channels.
>2. Is it reasonable to think you can push 1.2 aggregate IP traffic
>across any of the three options B11, AF24 or AF24HD?   Seems like a well
>planned link with great line of site at 6 miles should be able to, but
>lookin

Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[Bill Prince]

What others have said about distance. Short (up to 3 miles or so) 24 
GHz. Medium (up to 8-9 miles) 18 GHz. Long (up to 20 miles) 11 GHz. 
Longest 6 GHz.


I disagree with the B11 versus AF11. The AF11 will provide more 
throughput on less spectrum. Probably less expensive too.



bp


On 2/10/2018 2:57 PM, David Coudron wrote:


I know this topic has come up before, but thought I would throw it out 
again to hear additional thoughts as products continue to evolve.�� We 
have been doing primarily 5 GHz backhaul using Mimosa products for the 
last couple of years.�� Their frequency reuse has really helped us, 
but we are starting to see more locations that have lots of noise. 
We�d like to make the jump to higher frequencies and are looking at 11 
GHz and 24 GHz for that.�� The links we need are fairly short, 6-10 
miles max, which pushes the limits of the 24 GHz solutions, but with a 
very clean line of site we think we are in range for the links we are 
looking at as far as the design tools tell us.�� For 11 GHz, we would 
likely stay with the Mimosa product line, we know it pretty well and 
have all the management tools in place for it.�� For 24 GHz we�d 
likely go with the Ubiquiti AF 24 or AF 24 HD.�� We have worked with 
Ubiquiti stuff here and there, and just don�t have much familiarity 
with any other options outside of AirFiber.� Here is where we see the 
Pros and Cons of the two options:


Mimosa 11 GHz Pros:

 1. Licensed, should be clean spectrum for the full term of the
license and require less babysitting for interference
 2. Should support longer links, but that isn�t a big consideration
for us as it looks like everything we will need is under the
limits of the HD for sure and likely the AF 24 as well
 3. Little less susceptible to rain fade

Cons:

 1. Have to mess around with the license and there is a cost
associated with it
 2. Have to buy the dish separately, and know which to use before
applying for the license
 3. Not quite as much throughput (when compared to the AF 24 HD)
 4. More expensive that the AF 24 (but likely a little less than the HD)

Ubiquiti AF 24 Pros:

 1. All in one unit, easy to figure out what to have on hand for all links
 2. No messing around with licenses, making it much quicker to deploy
 3. Higher throughput on the HD

Cons:

 1. Unlicensed. Might fight other noise out there, and even quiet
links now might have noise later
 2. Not as familiar with this tool set as we are with Mimosa, although
this isn�t a big consideration as we have worked with lots of
Ubiquiti products
 3. Cost of HD is pretty high for an unlicensed link

Here are some questions we are hoping for help with:

 1. How much room in the unlicensed band is there to move channels if
you see other noise out there?�� We have been looking but are
finding it tough to figure out if we run wide channels, and see
noise, will we be able to move to other channels.
 2. Is it reasonable to think you can push 1.2 aggregate IP traffic
across any of the three options B11, AF24 or AF24HD?�� Seems like
a well planned link with great line of site at 6 miles should be
able to, but looking for some real world experience.
 3. Any oddball items we should take into consideration other than the
ones already mentioned here? Or are we missing some obvious questions?

Thanks,

David Coudron

Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[Faisal Imtiaz]

11Ghz  6-10 miles 
24GZ good for 1-2miles in high rain fade areas, longer distance if you have 
backup and don't care about rain fade. 

>>>For 11 GHz, we would likely stay with the Mimosa product line  
Not a bad decision, depending on channel availability don't chalk off the 
AF11x...smaller channels AF11x pushes more bw. 

>>For 24 GHz we’d likely go with the Ubiquiti AF 24 or AF 24 HD. 
Cannot go wrong with these but . if you like the orange logo 
Wait for it... Wait for it  not too far out .. !.;) 

Regards 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
http://www.snappytelecom.net 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "David Coudron" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 5:57:40 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

> I know this topic has come up before, but thought I would throw it out again 
> to
> hear additional thoughts as products continue to evolve. We have been doing
> primarily 5 GHz backhaul using Mimosa products for the last couple of years.
> Their frequency reuse has really helped us, but we are starting to see more
> locations that have lots of noise. We’d like to make the jump to higher
> frequencies and are looking at 11 GHz and 24 GHz for that. The links we need
> are fairly short, 6-10 miles max, which pushes the limits of the 24 GHz
> solutions, but with a very clean line of site we think we are in range for the
> links we are looking at as far as the design tools tell us. For 11 GHz, we
> would likely stay with the Mimosa product line, we know it pretty well and 
> have
> all the management tools in place for it. For 24 GHz we’d likely go with the
> Ubiquiti AF 24 or AF 24 HD. We have worked with Ubiquiti stuff here and there,
> and just don’t have much familiarity with any other options outside of
> AirFiber. Here is where we see the Pros and Cons of the two options:

> Mimosa 11 GHz Pros:

>1. Licensed, should be clean spectrum for the full term of the license and
> require less babysitting for interference
>2. Should support longer links, but that isn’t a big consideration for us 
> as it
>looks like everything we will need is under the limits of the HD for sure 
> and
> likely the AF 24 as well
> 3. Little less susceptible to rain fade

> Cons:

> 1. Have to mess around with the license and there is a cost associated 
> with it
>2. Have to buy the dish separately, and know which to use before applying 
> for
> the license
> 3. Not quite as much throughput (when compared to the AF 24 HD)
> 4. More expensive that the AF 24 (but likely a little less than the HD)

> Ubiquiti AF 24 Pros:

> 1. All in one unit, easy to figure out what to have on hand for all links
> 2. No messing around with licenses, making it much quicker to deploy
> 3. Higher throughput on the HD

> Cons:

>1. Unlicensed. Might fight other noise out there, and even quiet links now 
> might
> have noise later
>2. Not as familiar with this tool set as we are with Mimosa, although this 
> isn’t
> a big consideration as we have worked with lots of Ubiquiti products
> 3. Cost of HD is pretty high for an unlicensed link

> Here are some questions we are hoping for help with:

>1. How much room in the unlicensed band is there to move channels if you 
> see
>other noise out there? We have been looking but are finding it tough to 
> figure
>out if we run wide channels, and see noise, will we be able to move to 
> other
> channels.
>2. Is it reasonable to think you can push 1.2 aggregate IP traffic across 
> any of
>the three options B11, AF24 or AF24HD? Seems like a well planned link with
>great line of site at 6 miles should be able to, but looking for some real
> world experience.
>3. Any oddball items we should take into consideration other than the ones
> already mentioned here? Or are we missing some obvious questions?

> Thanks,

> David Coudron

Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[Chuck McCown]

I have always been scared to use them (24 Ghz) beyond 2 miles.

I want to know (and perhaps Liz or Tim are still lurking here), is there any 
way to re-use your 11 GHz channels in your local area?
The big problem for me is the cost of the license.  
UBNT or Mimosa ought to figure out a way to package the radio, antenna and 
license for one screaming good deal.  

Just tell them the end points and a turn-key package shows up ready and legal 
to install.  

I remember years ago, a company I worked for had nationwide licenses for almost 
all the microwave bands.
It was supposedly for emergency restoration use etc, and they were all narrow 
channels, but I wonder if such a beast still exists.

If you could re-use your 11 GHz channels within your original zone of 
protection it would really save some money.  

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 4:27 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

We had a lot of 4 mile+ links on AF24's that worked perfectly in ALASKA on the 
coast.

Some places have more rain/hr than others.

On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 5:11 PM, Adair Winter  
wrote:

  AF24 is only going to be 5 9's reliable to about 1-2 miles depending on your 
rain zone. 
  for 2-4 miles you could use 23Ghz (way more EIRP than 24Ghz)
  4-8 miles 18Ghz
  8-20 miles 11 Ghz
  and anything longer than that 6Ghz. unless you can mount really big dishes 
for 11.


  On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 5:05 PM, Gino A. Villarini  wrote:

For 6-10 miles 24 ghz its way out of the question.  Stick to 11 ghz.  

From: Af  on behalf of David Coudron 

Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
Date: Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 6:57 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Subject: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz


I know this topic has come up before, but thought I would throw it out 
again to hear additional thoughts as products continue to evolve.   We have 
been doing primarily 5 GHz backhaul using Mimosa products for the last couple 
of years.   Their frequency reuse has really helped us, but we are starting to 
see more locations that have lots of noise.   We’d like to make the jump to 
higher frequencies and are looking at 11 GHz and 24 GHz for that.   The links 
we need are fairly short, 6-10 miles max, which pushes the limits of the 24 GHz 
solutions, but with a very clean line of site we think we are in range for the 
links we are looking at as far as the design tools tell us.   For 11 GHz, we 
would likely stay with the Mimosa product line, we know it pretty well and have 
all the management tools in place for it.   For 24 GHz we’d likely go with the 
Ubiquiti AF 24 or AF 24 HD.   We have worked with Ubiquiti stuff here and 
there, and just don’t have much familiarity with any other options outside of 
AirFiber.  Here is where we see the Pros and Cons of the two options:



Mimosa 11 GHz Pros:

  1.. Licensed, should be clean spectrum for the full term of the license 
and require less babysitting for interference 
  2.. Should support longer links, but that isn’t a big consideration for 
us as it looks like everything we will need is under the limits of the HD for 
sure and likely the AF 24 as well 
  c.. Little less susceptible to rain fade


Cons:

  1.. Have to mess around with the license and there is a cost associated 
with it 
  b.. Have to buy the dish separately, and know which to use before 
applying for the license 
  c.. Not quite as much throughput (when compared to the AF 24 HD) 
  d.. More expensive that the AF 24 (but likely a little less than the HD)




Ubiquiti AF 24 Pros:

  1.. All in one unit, easy to figure out what to have on hand for all 
links 
  b.. No messing around with licenses, making it much quicker to deploy 
  c.. Higher throughput on the HD


Cons:

  1.. Unlicensed.  Might fight other noise out there, and even quiet links 
now might have noise later 
  2.. Not as familiar with this tool set as we are with Mimosa, although 
this isn’t a big consideration as we have worked with lots of Ubiquiti products 
  c.. Cost of HD is pretty high for an unlicensed link


Here are some questions we are hoping for help with:

  1.. How much room in the unlicensed band is there to move channels if you 
see other noise out there?   We have been looking but are finding it tough to 
figure out if we run wide channels, and see noise, will we be able to move to 
other channels. 
  b.. Is it reasonable to think you can push 1.2 aggregate IP traffic 
across any of the three options B11, AF24 or AF24HD?   Seems like a well 
planned link with great line of site at 6 miles should be able to, but looking 
for some real world experience. 
  c.. Any oddball items we should take into consideration other than the 
ones already mentioned here? Or are we missing some obvious questions?


Thanks,



David Coudron






  Gino A. Villarini
 
  President 
   

Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[Josh Reynolds]

We had a lot of 4 mile+ links on AF24's that worked perfectly in ALASKA on
the coast.

Some places have more rain/hr than others.

On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 5:11 PM, Adair Winter 
wrote:

> AF24 is only going to be 5 9's reliable to about 1-2 miles depending on
> your rain zone.
> for 2-4 miles you could use 23Ghz (way more EIRP than 24Ghz)
> 4-8 miles 18Ghz
> 8-20 miles 11 Ghz
> and anything longer than that 6Ghz. unless you can mount really big dishes
> for 11.
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 5:05 PM, Gino A. Villarini 
> wrote:
>
>> For 6-10 miles 24 ghz its way out of the question.  Stick to 11 ghz.
>>
>> From: Af  on behalf of David Coudron <
>> david.coud...@advantenon.com>
>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Date: Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 6:57 PM
>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Subject: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
>>
>> I know this topic has come up before, but thought I would throw it out
>> again to hear additional thoughts as products continue to evolve.   We have
>> been doing primarily 5 GHz backhaul using Mimosa products for the last
>> couple of years.   Their frequency reuse has really helped us, but we are
>> starting to see more locations that have lots of noise.   We’d like to make
>> the jump to higher frequencies and are looking at 11 GHz and 24 GHz for
>> that.   The links we need are fairly short, 6-10 miles max, which pushes
>> the limits of the 24 GHz solutions, but with a very clean line of site we
>> think we are in range for the links we are looking at as far as the design
>> tools tell us.   For 11 GHz, we would likely stay with the Mimosa product
>> line, we know it pretty well and have all the management tools in place for
>> it.   For 24 GHz we’d likely go with the Ubiquiti AF 24 or AF 24 HD.   We
>> have worked with Ubiquiti stuff here and there, and just don’t have much
>> familiarity with any other options outside of AirFiber.  Here is where we
>> see the Pros and Cons of the two options:
>>
>>
>>
>> Mimosa 11 GHz Pros:
>>
>>1. Licensed, should be clean spectrum for the full term of the
>>license and require less babysitting for interference
>>2. Should support longer links, but that isn’t a big consideration
>>for us as it looks like everything we will need is under the limits of the
>>HD for sure and likely the AF 24 as well
>>3. Little less susceptible to rain fade
>>
>>
>>
>> Cons:
>>
>>1. Have to mess around with the license and there is a cost
>>associated with it
>>2. Have to buy the dish separately, and know which to use before
>>applying for the license
>>3. Not quite as much throughput (when compared to the AF 24 HD)
>>4. More expensive that the AF 24 (but likely a little less than the
>>HD)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Ubiquiti AF 24 Pros:
>>
>>1. All in one unit, easy to figure out what to have on hand for all
>>links
>>2. No messing around with licenses, making it much quicker to deploy
>>3. Higher throughput on the HD
>>
>>
>>
>> Cons:
>>
>>1. Unlicensed.  Might fight other noise out there, and even quiet
>>links now might have noise later
>>2. Not as familiar with this tool set as we are with Mimosa, although
>>this isn’t a big consideration as we have worked with lots of Ubiquiti
>>products
>>3. Cost of HD is pretty high for an unlicensed link
>>
>>
>>
>> Here are some questions we are hoping for help with:
>>
>>1. How much room in the unlicensed band is there to move channels if
>>you see other noise out there?   We have been looking but are finding it
>>tough to figure out if we run wide channels, and see noise, will we be 
>> able
>>to move to other channels.
>>2. Is it reasonable to think you can push 1.2 aggregate IP traffic
>>across any of the three options B11, AF24 or AF24HD?   Seems like a well
>>planned link with great line of site at 6 miles should be able to, but
>>looking for some real world experience.
>>3. Any oddball items we should take into consideration other than the
>>ones already mentioned here? Or are we missing some obvious questions?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> David Coudron
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Gino A. Villarini*
>> President
>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Adair Winter
> VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
> Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 <(806)%20316-5071>
> C: 806.231.7180 <(806)%20231-7180>
> http://www.amarillowireless.net
> 
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[Robert Andrews]

AF24HD, 5 Miles Max in perfect conditions...

On 02/10/2018 02:57 PM, David Coudron wrote:
I know this topic has come up before, but thought I would throw it out 
again to hear additional thoughts as products continue to evolve.   We 
have been doing primarily 5 GHz backhaul using Mimosa products for the 
last couple of years. Their frequency reuse has really helped us, but we 
are starting to see more locations that have lots of noise.   We�d like 
to make the jump to higher frequencies and are looking at 11 GHz and 24 
GHz for that.   The links we need are fairly short, 6-10 miles max, 
which pushes the limits of the 24 GHz solutions, but with a very clean 
line of site we think we are in range for the links we are looking at as 
far as the design tools tell us.   For 11 GHz, we would likely stay with 
the Mimosa product line, we know it pretty well and have all the 
management tools in place for it.   For 24 GHz we�d likely go with the 
Ubiquiti AF 24 or AF 24 HD.   We have worked with Ubiquiti stuff here 
and there, and just don�t have much familiarity with any other options 
outside of AirFiber. Here is where we see the Pros and Cons of the two 
options:


Mimosa 11 GHz Pros:

 1. Licensed, should be clean spectrum for the full term of the license
and require less babysitting for interference
 2. Should support longer links, but that isn�t a big consideration for
us as it looks like everything we will need is under the limits of
the HD for sure and likely the AF 24 as well
 3. Little less susceptible to rain fade

Cons:

 1. Have to mess around with the license and there is a cost associated
with it
 2. Have to buy the dish separately, and know which to use before
applying for the license
 3. Not quite as much throughput (when compared to the AF 24 HD)
 4. More expensive that the AF 24 (but likely a little less than the HD)

Ubiquiti AF 24 Pros:

 1. All in one unit, easy to figure out what to have on hand for all links
 2. No messing around with licenses, making it much quicker to deploy
 3. Higher throughput on the HD

Cons:

 1. Unlicensed.  Might fight other noise out there, and even quiet links
now might have noise later
 2. Not as familiar with this tool set as we are with Mimosa, although
this isn�t a big consideration as we have worked with lots of
Ubiquiti products
 3. Cost of HD is pretty high for an unlicensed link

Here are some questions we are hoping for help with:

 1. How much room in the unlicensed band is there to move channels if
you see other noise out there?   We have been looking but are
finding it tough to figure out if we run wide channels, and see
noise, will we be able to move to other channels.
 2. Is it reasonable to think you can push 1.2 aggregate IP traffic
across any of the three options B11, AF24 or AF24HD?   Seems like a
well planned link with great line of site at 6 miles should be able
to, but looking for some real world experience.
 3. Any oddball items we should take into consideration other than the
ones already mentioned here? Or are we missing some obvious questions?

Thanks,

David Coudron

Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[Adair Winter]

AF24 is only going to be 5 9's reliable to about 1-2 miles depending on
your rain zone.
for 2-4 miles you could use 23Ghz (way more EIRP than 24Ghz)
4-8 miles 18Ghz
8-20 miles 11 Ghz
and anything longer than that 6Ghz. unless you can mount really big dishes
for 11.


On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 5:05 PM, Gino A. Villarini 
wrote:

> For 6-10 miles 24 ghz its way out of the question.  Stick to 11 ghz.
>
> From: Af  on behalf of David Coudron <
> david.coud...@advantenon.com>
> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Date: Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 6:57 PM
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Subject: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
>
> I know this topic has come up before, but thought I would throw it out
> again to hear additional thoughts as products continue to evolve.   We have
> been doing primarily 5 GHz backhaul using Mimosa products for the last
> couple of years.   Their frequency reuse has really helped us, but we are
> starting to see more locations that have lots of noise.   We’d like to make
> the jump to higher frequencies and are looking at 11 GHz and 24 GHz for
> that.   The links we need are fairly short, 6-10 miles max, which pushes
> the limits of the 24 GHz solutions, but with a very clean line of site we
> think we are in range for the links we are looking at as far as the design
> tools tell us.   For 11 GHz, we would likely stay with the Mimosa product
> line, we know it pretty well and have all the management tools in place for
> it.   For 24 GHz we’d likely go with the Ubiquiti AF 24 or AF 24 HD.   We
> have worked with Ubiquiti stuff here and there, and just don’t have much
> familiarity with any other options outside of AirFiber.  Here is where we
> see the Pros and Cons of the two options:
>
>
>
> Mimosa 11 GHz Pros:
>
>1. Licensed, should be clean spectrum for the full term of the license
>and require less babysitting for interference
>2. Should support longer links, but that isn’t a big consideration for
>us as it looks like everything we will need is under the limits of the HD
>for sure and likely the AF 24 as well
>3. Little less susceptible to rain fade
>
>
>
> Cons:
>
>1. Have to mess around with the license and there is a cost associated
>with it
>2. Have to buy the dish separately, and know which to use before
>applying for the license
>3. Not quite as much throughput (when compared to the AF 24 HD)
>4. More expensive that the AF 24 (but likely a little less than the HD)
>
>
>
>
>
> Ubiquiti AF 24 Pros:
>
>1. All in one unit, easy to figure out what to have on hand for all
>links
>2. No messing around with licenses, making it much quicker to deploy
>3. Higher throughput on the HD
>
>
>
> Cons:
>
>1. Unlicensed.  Might fight other noise out there, and even quiet
>links now might have noise later
>2. Not as familiar with this tool set as we are with Mimosa, although
>this isn’t a big consideration as we have worked with lots of Ubiquiti
>products
>3. Cost of HD is pretty high for an unlicensed link
>
>
>
> Here are some questions we are hoping for help with:
>
>1. How much room in the unlicensed band is there to move channels if
>you see other noise out there?   We have been looking but are finding it
>tough to figure out if we run wide channels, and see noise, will we be able
>to move to other channels.
>2. Is it reasonable to think you can push 1.2 aggregate IP traffic
>across any of the three options B11, AF24 or AF24HD?   Seems like a well
>planned link with great line of site at 6 miles should be able to, but
>looking for some real world experience.
>3. Any oddball items we should take into consideration other than the
>ones already mentioned here? Or are we missing some obvious questions?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
>
>
>
>
> *Gino A. Villarini*
> President
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
>


-- 

Adair Winter
VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071
C: 806.231.7180
http://www.amarillowireless.net

Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[Gino A. Villarini]

For 6-10 miles 24 ghz its way out of the question.  Stick to 11 ghz.

From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of David 
Coudron mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Date: Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 6:57 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

I know this topic has come up before, but thought I would throw it out again to 
hear additional thoughts as products continue to evolve.   We have been doing 
primarily 5 GHz backhaul using Mimosa products for the last couple of years.   
Their frequency reuse has really helped us, but we are starting to see more 
locations that have lots of noise.   We’d like to make the jump to higher 
frequencies and are looking at 11 GHz and 24 GHz for that.   The links we need 
are fairly short, 6-10 miles max, which pushes the limits of the 24 GHz 
solutions, but with a very clean line of site we think we are in range for the 
links we are looking at as far as the design tools tell us.   For 11 GHz, we 
would likely stay with the Mimosa product line, we know it pretty well and have 
all the management tools in place for it.   For 24 GHz we’d likely go with the 
Ubiquiti AF 24 or AF 24 HD.   We have worked with Ubiquiti stuff here and 
there, and just don’t have much familiarity with any other options outside of 
AirFiber.  Here is where we see the Pros and Cons of the two options:

Mimosa 11 GHz Pros:

  1.  Licensed, should be clean spectrum for the full term of the license and 
require less babysitting for interference
  2.  Should support longer links, but that isn’t a big consideration for us as 
it looks like everything we will need is under the limits of the HD for sure 
and likely the AF 24 as well
  3.  Little less susceptible to rain fade

Cons:

  1.  Have to mess around with the license and there is a cost associated with 
it
  2.  Have to buy the dish separately, and know which to use before applying 
for the license
  3.  Not quite as much throughput (when compared to the AF 24 HD)
  4.  More expensive that the AF 24 (but likely a little less than the HD)


Ubiquiti AF 24 Pros:

  1.  All in one unit, easy to figure out what to have on hand for all links
  2.  No messing around with licenses, making it much quicker to deploy
  3.  Higher throughput on the HD

Cons:

  1.  Unlicensed.  Might fight other noise out there, and even quiet links now 
might have noise later
  2.  Not as familiar with this tool set as we are with Mimosa, although this 
isn’t a big consideration as we have worked with lots of Ubiquiti products
  3.  Cost of HD is pretty high for an unlicensed link

Here are some questions we are hoping for help with:

  1.  How much room in the unlicensed band is there to move channels if you see 
other noise out there?   We have been looking but are finding it tough to 
figure out if we run wide channels, and see noise, will we be able to move to 
other channels.
  2.  Is it reasonable to think you can push 1.2 aggregate IP traffic across 
any of the three options B11, AF24 or AF24HD?   Seems like a well planned link 
with great line of site at 6 miles should be able to, but looking for some real 
world experience.
  3.  Any oddball items we should take into consideration other than the ones 
already mentioned here? Or are we missing some obvious questions?

Thanks,

David Coudron




Gino A. Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]