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thx for the reply!
***
Anyway, to answer you simply - conflict is v. fruitful, if you embrace it.
(Jerry Rubin expounded this POV well in Do It! )
***
I've always been more of an Abbie Hoffman guy, but ... sure...
***
More specifically, AGI-ers -as I have in part explained - are almost
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 6:47 PM, Mike Tintner tint...@blueyonder.co.ukwrote:
Ben:I don't think there's any lack of creativity in the AGI world ... and
I think it's pretty clear that rationality and creativity work together in
all really good scientific work.Creativity is about coming up with
You have interpreted my below post in an overly defensive manner.
Sorry ... I'm dealing with some other frustrating things this morning so
maybe the frustratedness unintentionally rubbed off on this email exchange
...
(Are you saying Novamente is not scaleable to human level without
ideas. So I'd
be v. interested).
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Ben Goertzel, PhD
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I happened to use CopyCat in a university AI class I taught years ago, so I
got some experience with it
It was **great** as a teaching tool, but I wouldn't say it shows anything
about what can or can't work for AGI, really...
ben
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:02 AM, Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org
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for AGI people--Ben Goertzel, Pei Wang, and now Peter de Blanc. Is
this just a coincidence?
Joshua
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 5:48 PM, Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org wrote:
Can I start the PhD directly without getting the MS first?
You can start a PhD without having an MS first, but you'll
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Do you mean that examples that Hofstadter/Mitchell used in their
papers for CopyCat did not in fact work on their codebase? I remember
downloading second copycat implementations (in Java IIRC), it seemed
to be working. Besides, they don't claim anything grandiose for this
model, and it seems
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On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 12:29 PM, YKY (Yan King Yin)
generic.intellige...@gmail.com wrote:
I got my PhD there in 1989 in math, not AI
Let me see... you were about 22 in 1989? I was still an undergrad at
that age...
Yep...
I was already interested in working on AGI, but didn't feel like
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On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 6:12 PM, YKY (Yan King Yin)
generic.intellige...@gmail.com wrote:
If...you want a non-research career, a Ph.D. is definitely not for you.
I want to be either an entrepreneur or a researcher... it's hard to
decide. What does AGI need most? Further research, or a
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PM, Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org wrote:
I'm considering writing a paper on hypercomputation, and am wondering if
anyone on this list could suggest a good bibliography on the topic ... I
want to read up on the latest literature to be sure my thoughts are
original
before writing the paper
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I just read an interesting (somewhat mathy) paper on transfer learning,
and put the link here
http://www.opencog.org/wiki/Transfer_Learning
ben
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Ben Goertzel, PhD
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I'm considering writing a paper on hypercomputation, and am wondering if
anyone on this list could suggest a good bibliography on the topic ... I
want to read up on the latest literature to be sure my thoughts are original
before writing the paper...
thx
ben
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Ben Goertzel, PhD
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, 2008 at 11:50 AM, Tim Freeman t...@fungible.com wrote:
From: Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org
I'm considering writing a paper on hypercomputation, ...
If I understand right, hypercomputation is theoretical computer
science arguments of the form If I had an oracle for the halting
problem
...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/opencog?hl=en
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Ben Goertzel, PhD
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I intend to live forever, or die
Visual images, in particular, uniquely provide *isomorphic maps of objects.*
Well, no.
The congenitally blind also create internal isomorphic maps of objects
Vision is a rich source of information, but it is does not in itself
provide isomorphic maps of object -- it provides messy, noisy
Hi,
There isn't much that an MIMD machine can do better than a similar-sized
SIMD machine.
Hey, that's just not true.
There are loads of math theorems disproving this assertion...
Oops, I left out the presumed adjective real-world. Of course there are
countless diophantine equations
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Steve wrote:
Bit#3: Did Ben realize that the prospective emergence of array processors
(e.g. as I have been promoting) would obsolete much of his present
work, because its structure isn't vectorizable, so he is in effect betting
on continued stagnation in processor architecture, and may in
Hi,
There isn't much that an MIMD machine can do better than a similar-sized
SIMD machine.
Hey, that's just not true.
There are loads of math theorems disproving this assertion...
OO and generic design patterns do buy you *something* ...
OO is often impossible to vectorize.
The point
to attend: we would have liked to be
able to offer it for free, but the funds to pay the faculty has to
come from somewhere, and grant funding for AGI is generally hard to
come by...)
-- Ben
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I
http://robot.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/column/2008/12/08/1489.html
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agi
Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive
Implication for neuroscientists proposing to build a WBE (whole brain
emulation): the resolution you need may now have to include all the
DNA in every neuron. Any bets on when they will have the resolution
to do that?
No bets here. But they are proposing that elements are added onto
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I intend
I know you're just playing here but it would be easy to empirically test
this. Does junk DNA change between birth and death? Something tells me we
would have discovered something that significant a long time ago.
Terren
well, loads of mutations occur in nuclear DNA between birth and
On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 3:19 PM, Ed Porter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Terry and Ben,
I never implied anything that could be considered a memory at a conscious
level is stored at just one synapse, but all the discussions I have heard of
learning in various brain science books and lectures imply
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.
If there is such an explanation, either now or in the future, I would
welcome hearing it.
Ed Porter
-Original Message-
From: Ben Goertzel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 3:24 PM
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Subject: Re: [agi] Lamarck Lives!(?)
On Wed
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I intend to live
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 3:09 AM, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But quantum theory does appear to be directly related to limits of the
computations of physical reality. The uncertainty theory and the
quantization of quantum states are limitations on what can be computed
Hi Hector,
You may say the hypothesis of neural hypercomputing valid in the sense
that it helps guide you to interesting, falsifiable theories. That's
fine. But, then you must admit that the hypothesis of souls could be
valid in the same sense, right? It could guide some other people to
We cannot
ask Feynman, but I actually asked Deutsch. He does not only think QM
is our most basic physical reality (he thinks math and computer
science lie in quantum mechanics), but he even takes quite seriously
his theory of parallel universes! and he is not alone. Speaking by
myself, I
If two theories give identical predictions under all circumstances
about how the real world behaves, then they are not two separate
theories, they are merely rewordings of the same theory. And choosing
between them is arbitrary; you may prefer one to the other because
human minds can
Hi,
I have proposed a problem domain called function predictor whose
purpose is to allow an AI to learn across problem sub-domains,
carrying its learning from one domain to another. (See
http://www.includipedia.com/wiki/User:Cabalamat/Function_predictor )
I also think it would be useful if
/semantics-and-brain-more-on-atl-as-hub.html
As Richard L would likely point out, the authors' data supports plenty
of different interpretations, and the one presented is only one of the
many plausible ones...
-- ben G
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 12:45 AM, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A semi
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Ben Goertzel, PhD
CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC
Director of Research, SIAI
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I intend to live forever, or die trying.
-- Groucho Marx
Regarding winning a DARPA contract, I believe that teaming with an
established contractor, e.g. SAIC, SRI, is beneficial.
Cheers,
-Steve
Yeah, I've tried that approach too ...
As it happens, I've had significant more success getting funding from
various other government agencies ... but
and immeasurably better
brain scanning and interfacing technology.
Ed Porter
-Original Message-
From: Ben Goertzel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:39 PM
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Subject: Re: [agi] A paper that actually does solve the problem
But quantum theory does appear to be directly related to limits of the
computations of physical reality. The uncertainty theory and the
quantization of quantum states are limitations on what can be computed by
physical reality.
Not really. They're limitations on what measurements of
HI,
In quantum physics, the Heisenberg uncertainty principle states that the
values of certain pairs of conjugate variables (position and momentum, for
instance) cannot both be known with arbitrary precision. That is, the more
precisely one variable is known, the less precisely the other is
, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But quantum theory does appear to be directly related to limits of the
computations of physical reality. The uncertainty theory and the
quantization of quantum states are limitations on what can be computed by
physical reality.
Not really. They're
of an uncomputable series or of a
computable one...
ben g
On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 10:53 PM, Hector Zenil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 4:44 AM, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
OTOH, there is no possible real-world test to distinguish a true
random sequence from a high
On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 11:48 PM, Hector Zenil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 4:55 AM, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But I don't get your point at all, because the whole idea of
nondeterministic randomness has nothing to do with physical
reality...
I don't get
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agi
Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member
Could you give me a little more detail about your thoughts on this?
Do you think the problem of increasing uncomputableness of complicated
complexity is the common thread found in all of the interesting,
useful but unscalable methods of AI?
Jim Bromer
Well, I think that dealing with
But that in no way means your statements are correct descriptions of
external reality, as many of your statements would appear to claim to be.
And you have provided no evidence, other than drug induced experience within
your own mind, that they are.
Ed Porter
The notions of correct
On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 12:42 PM, Eric Burton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
All I've tried to impress is that these revelations, epiphanies,
theophanies or what-have-you are at least as primary as the sensations
associated with daily life.
I tend to agree ... but unless you are going to tie these
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The empires of the future are the empires of the mind.
-- Sir Winston Churchill
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-- Sir Winston Churchill
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http://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/engineering/extranet/research-groups/neuroengineering-lab/
There are always more papers that can be discussed.
OK, sure, but this is a more recent paper **by the same authors,
discussing the same data***
and more recent similar data.
But that does not
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On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:48 AM, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
yeah, it's coming back to me now .. I remember holons and holarchies
and all that stuff ;-)
However, Koestler was writing before complex dynamics and attractors
and such were well-understood and well-known ... and all
I could also argue that the limitations on RSI would constrain a hard-takeoff
singularity to an explosion of computational power, not of knowledge. But I
think that might be a stretch. Not everyone agrees that there will even be a
singularity in the first place.
You could argue that, but
Hi,
BTW, I just read this paper
For example, in Loosemore Harley (in press) you can find an analysis of a
paper by Quiroga, Reddy, Kreiman, Koch, and Fried (2005) in which the latter
try to claim they have evidence in favor of grandmother neurons (or sparse
collections of grandmother
On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 1:30 PM, Ed Porter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Since I assume Ben, as well as a lot of the rest of us, want the AGI
movement to receive respectability in the academic and particularly in the
funding community, it is probably best that other than brain-science- or
-
From: Ben Goertzel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 2:57 PM
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Subject: Re: [agi] Entheogins, understainding the brain, and AGI
On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 1:30 PM, Ed Porter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Since I assume Ben, as well as a lot
: 87-91; 2008
***
at
http://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/engineering/extranet/research-groups/neuroengineering-lab/
-- Ben G
On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Richard Loosemore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ben Goertzel wrote:
Hi,
BTW, I just read this paper
For example, in Loosemore Harley
A semi-technical essay on the global/local (aka glocal) nature of
memory is linked to from here
http://multiverseaccordingtoben.blogspot.com/
I wrote this a long while ago but just got around to posting it now...
ben
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any describable non-entheogenic aspects of
the ego-loss experience, other than what I had already described.
Ed Porter
-Original Message-
From: Ben Goertzel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 4:04 PM
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Subject: Re: [agi] A paper
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The empires of the future are the empires of the mind.
-- Sir Winston Churchill
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agi
Archives: https
I stated a Ben's List challenge a while back that you apparently missed, so
here it is again.
You can ONLY learn how a system works by observation, to the extent that its
operation is imperfect. Where it is perfect, it represents a solution to the
environment in which it operates, and as
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A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone
locatable?
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A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn
On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Richard Loosemore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ben Goertzel wrote:
I saw the main point of Richard's paper as being that the available
neuroscience data drastically underdetermines the nature of neural
knowledge representation ... so that drawing conclusions
On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 4:54 PM, Vladimir Nesov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 12:30 AM, Richard Loosemore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
They want some kind of mixture of sparse and multiply redundant and not
distributed. The whole point of what we wrote was that there is no
Hi,
I have said many times on this list that I believe there is nothing we know
about reality that is anything other than computing, and that there is
nothing we know about consciousness that is anything other than computing,
other than our sense of awareness, which can be considered an
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Winston Churchill
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A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher
, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
yay ... we all agree on something ;-p
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Vladimir Nesov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 7:04 PM, Richard Loosemore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
BillK wrote:
Nobody has mentioned this yet
So, basically, you don't disagree with his paper to much.
You just don't like his attitude.;)
Danged AI researchers that think they know it all! ;)
You don't think you could call it excessive PR where he is trying to
dislodge an entrenched view?
The thing is, the simplistic
Richard,
The main problem is that if you interpret spike timing to be playing the
role that you (and they) imply above, then you are commiting yourself to a
whole raft of assumptions about how knowledge is generally represented and
processed. However, there are *huge* problems with that set
concepts are anchored more strongly than any other, hence they are very
real.
I could say more about this, for sure, but most of the philosophers I
have talked to have gotten this point fairly quickly.
...
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Ben Goertzel, PhD
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A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone
When I was in college and LSD was the rage, one of the main goals of the
heavy duty heads was ego loss which was to achieve a sense of cosmic
oneness with all of the universe. It was commonly stated that 1000
micrograms was the ticket to ego loss. I never went there. Nor have I
ever
The neuron = concept
'theory' is extremely broken: it is so broken, that when neuroscientists
talk about bayesian contingencies being calculated or encoded by spike
timing mechanisms, that claim is incoherent.
This is not always true ... in some cases there are solidly demonstrated
]
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agi
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Ben Goertzel, PhD
CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC
.
thanks
Ben Goertzel
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agi
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Lastly, about your question re. consciousness of extended objects that are
not concept-atoms.
I think there is some confusion here about what I was trying to say (my
fault perhaps). It is not just the fact of those concept-atoms being at the
end of the line, it is actually about what
Richard,
My first response to this is that you still don't seem to have taken account
of what was said in the second part of the paper - and, at the same time,
I can find many places where you make statements that are undermined by that
second part.
To take the most significant example:
to
the particular nature of consciousness and its relationship to the ordinary
scientific standards of explanation, this kind of explanation is not
possible**
??
ben g
On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 4:05 PM, Richard Loosemore [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
Ben Goertzel wrote:
Richard,
My first
-
From: Richard Loosemore [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:57 PM
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Subject: Re: [agi] A paper that actually does solve the problem of
consciousness
Ben Goertzel wrote:
Richard,
I re-read your paper and I'm afraid I really don't grok why
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Ben Goertzel, PhD
CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC
Director of Research, SIAI
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design
3. A statement in their own words that they hereby disavow allegiance
to any non-human god or alien entity, and that they will NOT follow the
directives of any government led by people who would obviously fail this
test. This statement would be included on the license.
Hmmm... don't I fail
.. interesting if true ..
http://www.medindia.net/news/Key-to-Learning-and-Memory-Continuous-Brain-Cell-Generation-41297-1.htm
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Ben Goertzel, PhD
CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC
Director of Research, SIAI
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion
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Ben Goertzel, PhD
CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC
Director of Research, SIAI
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher
a hog, conn a ship, design a building
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