Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Don't get my previous messages wrong, I appreciate it very much whenever anyone awards me with a thumbs up, and I award messages that I feel warrant it a thumbs up as well. I just don't pay a lot of attention to how much karma I have, nor do I go out of my way to try to slurp up every karma point I possibly can by saying whatever I think will get me a thumbs up.@JaceKI thought that that was what I said, that I didn't view karma as essential, must have, information. It's nice that it's there to look at when I feel like it or want to, but I would be just as happy if it wasn't there. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353229#p353229 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum @Nocturnus: You're welcome. I'll go get my Rodney Carringtom playlist now @Dark: Depends how subtle and sneaky somebody gets about being an ass to others though, and it's subjective realy. I'd say if somebody wanted to be an ass while playing by the rules that's absolutely possible. Ah I was hoping somehow there'd be an option to just hide karma on publi posts, I've no clue how PunBB works but I know on jcink I did that with HTML trickery on my own forum but that's a different system entirely, hiding stuff in the info off to the left of the post therethough again no experience with punbb@Orco: I still think karma isn't really essential info though, been on too many forums where it's used as a tool to wave around and show off. Kinda like Youtube subs or views and that sorta thing. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353207#p353207 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum @JaceK, if we removed any system on the basis that it could! turn into something nasty or be abused, we wouldn't even have a forum ;d. If anyone was being arsy about their Karma, obviously they'd get moderated, but I suspect in that situation, as indeed in many situations, it would be the inherent arsiness of the person that was to blame, not the Karma system itself, heck people are quite good at finding reasons to be arsy on their own without us having to imagine further Personally, I like being able to thumb up a post and say "thank you" to someone in a tangeable way and that's what I've seen Karma being used for since we removed the thumbs down option, which is all it was ever intended to be. I am afraid there isn't a way to have users disable display of Karma if they don't want to see it, though I agree that would be a nice option to have for those who don't care about the Karma system, as it is your best bet is to just treat the karma system like a public toilet. it's there for anyone who wants to use it, if not your free to ignore it, and the staff promise to keep it clean and stop it from stinking either way . URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353168#p353168 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-02-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Just what I needed, to come back to a topic with a controversial subject only to find it turning into talk about penis measuring! I can always count on someone on ag net to turn a serious topic into a dinner circus commedy! Thumbs up! Does that mean yours just grew longer? :d URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353167#p353167 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Other than your location, if you choose to provide it, that could be said of all the entries in the second list as well as the rank listed in the first list. None of them is what I'd call essential information and all of them could be used as my thinggy is bigger than your thinggy flags or badges. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353141#p353141 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum No it just feels like you're waving your dick around and bragging about how big it is, so to speak. Same with post counts on some forums as well though, it's not called e-peen for nothing, and post counts/karma have often been called a dick measuring/waving contest on various forums. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353138#p353138 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum @JaceKThe only advice I can offer is to do what I do and mostly just ignore the karma listing.If I felt really ambitious, I'd see if I could use the flexible web feature in JAWS to filter out the karma listings, but at the end of the day it isn't that important to me to mess with. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353135#p353135 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum I'm gonna chime in.Is it possible at all to hide a user's karma on the post display but only display it to that user's profile? Also on another forum I used to be on they had a thanks system, you could thank a post, it got removed fairly fast for people abusing it and spamming the hell out of it. I'd argue against a list of people who hit thumbs up on a post fofr the same reason honestlythe entire karma system just sounds like a big dick waving popularity contest to me. I'd rather see it gone honestly if only to prevent a popularity contest URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353107#p353107 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-02-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum @Orko,If myself could be entirely satisfied, I'd work on that, but oh, am I ever human, flawed, egocentric, narcicistic, and ready and willing at a moment's notice to believe I'm all that and a bag of chips, deserving of it all! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353087#p353087 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum @NocturnusYou said it! I've given up on trying to please everyone a long time ago. Now the only person I try to make happy is myself. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353061#p353061 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-02-19
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Yeah, imagine if the reason we began handing out moderation warnings or hell even bands were based on what we see in your Karma? We could easily do that with the current system in place! Everyone who doesn't have karma above a certain number? Don't even think twice about the subject matter! MODERATION! I hate being seen as a tyrant, but I've learned over and over again that ya can't please everyone... URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353040#p353040 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Hmmm, missed this discussion and I'm not exactly sure what karma has to do with anything here, but since I have been involved with the Karma system I'll put a word in. The karma system was first introduced by Sander in I believe 2010, to see how it worked, and basically it turned into a slapping contest, with people getting smacked with thumbs down over and over again, indeed there were more thumbs downs than thumbs ups, and what thumbs ups there were didn't matter (some poor person even got reduced to minus 139 Karma in the course of about a week). We discussed a solution to this problem but none was forthcoming at the time so the system was removed. When I took over Administrating the forum in 2012, I saw that there was an option to enable karma but remove the thumbs down setting. On the core exiles forum is a system called "give a gift" which is just as it sounds. Under each post appears the names of people who "gifted" that post (if any), it's just a way to say "here I like what you just said!" and is fairly nice. I thought Karma could be a similar thing here, not anything major just a way to literally stick a thumbs up at someone's post and say "hay that's cool!" What reasons you might choose to give someone Karma, and whether indeed you care about the system is up to you, but hay it's there so use it if you wish or not if you don't, and now that the negative karma connotation is removed there is no risk or possible bad consequence to using or not using it. of course the Karma system has bugger all to do with moderation, so I'm not really sure what it has to do with this topic in question, since as Orko pointed out whether you use or take note of the Karma system is entirely up to you, and moderator action needs to be a less easy to ignore than that, but that's the history of Karma anyway. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353004#p353004 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum @DefenderAnd that is the root of the problem, with no rules to go by, everyone uses karma based on their own interpretation of what it is supposed to be for, and with everyone doing their own thing, how much karma you have devolves down to how many people approved of messages you posted, with such an unknown mix of reasons why messages were given a thumbs up, the karma reading is essentially meaningless.So why even bother with it?Just as I rarely even look at my karma because to me it's just a curiosity rather than something to be concerned about, I also very rarely award karma for the same reasons.The mods could disable the entire karma system and I, for one, wouldn't miss it a bit. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=351751#p351751 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-02-10
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Jaseoffire via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum You know @LordLundin, I don't know if you even gave the actual background info on the Hugh Mungus case. I shall post it here for the good of the order.http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/hugh-mungushttps://www.quora.com/Did-the-person-in … -that-girlhttp://h3h3.wikia.com/wiki/Hugh_Mungus[[wow]], I can't believe some of these people haven't been banned from NeoGaf yet. Oh well, I'm pretty sure that forum is not as active any more anyways. Well, here's that link.https://www.neogaf.com/threads/lady-yel … s.1274073/And here's the link to the video from the above NeoGaf link.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeNJFz-WCZsNow here's to hoping this posts with all the links. If anyone wants more details on this case, please ask. I can try to hunt down more. As for this matter in dealing with the user in question, it seems to be more of a case of insulting and extremely unprofessional behavior. I am not sure if it warranted a ban as long as the one that has been handed down, but the case does not seem to be misogyny. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=351733#p351733 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-02-10
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : defender via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Some people may think that reporting you would be okay because your inciting a flame war with such an obviously inflammatory comment, I wouldn't, but I know a few that probably would.That's the power of Karma, you get to use it in which ever way you wish.It does reduce it's meaningfulness, but it's up to you weather or not to pay attention to it or not anyway.And if the argument is weather or not people who don't look at their karma in the first place will care about the change, than I don't understand why it should matter to those people anyway.This suggestion is for the people that do care. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=351676#p351676 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Yeah, but someone's opinion or view doesn't warrant a report, if I posted that I thought NVDA was a piece of crap, would you report me to the mods? I wouldn't, it's just an opinion and not breaking any rules.Personally, regardless of what I think of NVDA, I would never post such a remark because it would more than likely be a source of trouble or start a flame war.Nor should it give or take away karma. In my opinion, you award karma to someone for being helpful, not because they agree or disagree with you. At least that's the way I use it.And finally, as for my own karma? Every once in a great while, maybe once a month or so, I will look at it, but it's not something I worry about or obsess over, it's just a curiosity to look at from time to time. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=351633#p351633 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Yeah, but someone's opinion or view doesn't warrant a report, if I posted that I thought NVDA was a piece of crap, would you report me to the mods? I wouldn't, it's just an opinion and not breaking any rules.Personally, regardless of what I think of NVDA, I would never post such a remark because it would more than likely be a source of trouble or start a flame war.Nor should it give or take away karma. In my opinion, you award karma to someone for being helpful, not because they agree or disagree with you. At least that's the way I use it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=351633#p351633 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-02-09
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : defender via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum OrkoEbay is a bad example because allot of dislikes their can effect your sales, where as here it only effects your standing in the community.Also, that's exactly the point of like dislike, to show that you disagree with their opinion or how they presented it, without escalating it to a report.BryantI understand that you don't think it will help the forum as much as I may believe it will, and I admit that I'm not sure either, but if the problem is people ignoring it than at least it won't make those people worse either... So why not give it a shot right?I mean, immature people are going to be immature no matter what, on both sides, so if they want to play stupid games than they'll find a way with any medium you give them as it is, but for those that can construct a decent argument, it's a useful tool, and frankly their posts ten to get allot more attention anyway. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=351580#p351580 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-02-09
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : bryant via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum the other thing I think we need to consider about negative karma is the fact that some people simply don't care about their karma, and will carry on being the person that they are, regardless of how little karma they have accumulated. I'm not saying the karma system is bad, but I often wonder how many people on this forum actually pay atention to what their karma is, or could care less about it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=351578#p351578 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum I'll admit there are times when I wish negative karma or thumbs down existed, but I also understand the reason it was removed.The problem with negative karma or thumbs down is that some people won't be able to resist the temptation to abuse it and give someone an undeserved thumbs down simply because they posted an opinion or view that they didn't like.I think that's why eBay got rid of being able to give a buyer a negative feedback if they paid for their bid for the very same abuse reason. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=351567#p351567 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-02-09
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : defender via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Read this entire topic, kinda surprised my self.All I know is that guys say get off my dick in certain places (particularly those where it seems like musical professor might be from based on all his yalls) to other guys all the time, it's just a phrase, I don't blame you for assuming in the moment though.If I were Nocternus, I'd be upset on my girlfriend's behalf, even if I was trying to disconnect my self from the situation, and Dark lives in the UK, a pretty liberal place for the most part, particularly considering the type of people he probably encounters in his chosen career path all the time.I'm glad you mods talked it out first though, a solid idea considering the personal nature, but I don't know who all was involved in that.If he had said, "get off my dick you stupid bitch and go suck your boyfriend Nocternus's instead" than yeah, fuck that guy, that's cut and dry misogyny, and no one needs that shit poisoning their community.I don't really think he'll change, but I agree with the one year ban suggestion as well, because of the continued emails.However even then, a permaban seems a bit over the top, lacking any (credible) or highly graphic, personal threats, since this kind of thing is extremely common in the wider internet, and I'm not even talking the big names like Reddit and 4Chann, so if this is shocking to you than I am both amused, and (honestly) happy for you guys.Also about this cheating thing, I can't imagine why anyone could give two shits what someone did to their own game or how, as long as they didn't effect anyone else E.G. multiplayer or score board.In that case it did, and that's not cool, so since the mods have decided to step in on piracy, talking about bans from games, code stealing, hacking and the like, than it follows that they would disallow talking about this as well, but it's pretty hard to police, just like the code stealing.And yeah, I've seen several topics over the years that basically turned into one of those oil well fires that goes on, and on, and on, right on the front page of which ever room it's in so it's not hard to keep up with, and nothing was done for a very long time about it.Sometimes the retribution was godly in it's application, though often incomplete, but most other times it was just kind of, capped off after the fact.With this many mods, I can't find any excuse accept not wanting to deal with the nonsense, which I get, but it's also what you guys signed up for, and if certain members aren't able to do their job and look at recent high traffic in threads or read reports each day 80% of the time do to other obligations, than they should be replaced, no hard feelings from the kind of people who were accepted in the first place anyway I'd hope...Allot of places have to cycle through admins like this, it's just the nature of the beast.That or just have a different tag for those members who are only responsible for news and database stuff, and disconnect them from anything moderation wise.I don't see everyone being away at once being a likely reason either, considering how many times it's happened, though admittedly it was worse when their were less of you guys.The response is still often lackluster however, but I get that this is a comparatively pretty forgiving place, and I still post here knowing that.Maybe we as users just need to report posts more? I usually don't for the really obvious ones as to not flood you guys, but like half of those were never addressed (not common) or only resulted in a warning weeks after the fact (much more common) so...I would also really like to see negative karma come back, it's probably like three times a week that I wish for it, and it will likely reduce unnecessary reporting anyway.The reason it was removed in the first place always seemed kind of ridiculously PC and artificial (if well meaning) to me anyway, and upvote and downvote, like and dislike has become a standard all over the web for a good reason.If you have even a slightly thicker skin than the average hormonal teen, which you really should if you intend to use the internet anyway, than this is actually a useful tool to know weather you need to STFU or not, in order to avoid turning people against you, rather than getting them to listen to your argument.Hence you can modify your delivery, and everyone wins.I'm not saying it's always a good thing or doesn't cause conflict, but I think we should at least try it out again. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=351533#p351533 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-02-09
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : defender via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Read this entire topic, kinda surprised my self.All I know is that guys say get off my dick in certain places (particularly those where it seems like musical professor might be from based on all his yalls) to other guys all the time, it's just a phrase, I don't blame you for assuming in the moment though.If I were Nocternus, I'd be upset on my girlfriend's behalf, even if I was trying to disconnect my self from the situation, and Dark lives in the UK, a pretty liberal place for the most part, particularly considering the type of people he probably encounters in his chosen career path all the time.I'm glad you mods talked it out first though, a solid idea considering the personal nature, but I don't know who all was involved in that.If he had said, "get off my dick you stupid bitch and go suck your boyfriend Nocternus's instead" than yeah, fuck that guy, that's cut and dry misogyny, and no one needs that shit poisoning their community.I don't really think he'll change, but I agree with the one year ban suggestion as well, because of the continued emails.However even then, a permaban seems a bit over the top, lacking any (credible) or highly graphic, personal threats, since this kind of thing is extremely common in the wider internet, and I'm not even talking the big names like Reddit and 4Chann, so if this is shocking to you than I am both amused, and (honestly) happy for you guys.Also about this cheating thing, I can't imagine why anyone could give two shits what someone did to their own game or how, as long as they didn't effect anyone else E.G. multiplayer or score board.In that case it did, and that's not cool, so since the mods have decided to step in on piracy, talking about bans from games, code stealing, hacking and the like, than it follows that they would disallow talking about this as well, but it's pretty hard to police, just like the code stealing.And yeah, I've seen several topics over the years that basically turned into one of those oil well fires that goes on, and on, and on, right on the front page of which ever room it's in so it's not hard to keep up with, and nothing was done for a very long time about it.Sometimes the retribution was godly in it's application, though often incomplete, but most other times it was just kind of, capped off after the fact.With this many mods, I can't find any excuse accept not wanting to deal with the nonsense, which I get, but it's also what you guys signed up for, and if certain members aren't able to do their job and look at recent high traffic in threads or read reports each day 80% of the time do to other obligations, than they should be replaced, no hard feelings from the kind of people who were accepted in the first place anyway I'd hope...Allot of places have to cycle through admins like this, it's just the nature of the beast.That or just have a different tag for those members who are only responsible for news and database stuff, and disconnect them from anything moderation wise.I don't see everyone being away at once being a likely reason either, considering how many times it's happened, though admittedly it was worse when their were less of you guys.The response is still often lackluster however.Maybe we as users just need to report posts more? I usually don't for the really obvious ones as to not flood you guys, but like half of those were never addressed, or only resulted in a warning weeks after the fact, so...I would also really like to see negative karma come back, it's probably like three times a week that I wish for it.The reason it was removed in the first place always seemed kind of ridiculously PC and artificial to me anyway, and upvote and downvote, like and dislike has become a standard all over the web for a good reason.If you have even a slightly thicker skin than the average hormonal teen, which you really should if you intend to use the internet anyway, than this is actually a useful tool to know weather you need to STFU or not, in order to avoid turning people against you, rather than getting them to listen to your argument.Hence you can modify your delivery, and everyone wins.I'm not saying it's always a good thing or doesn't cause conflict, but I think we should at least try it out again. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=351533#p351533 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-02-09
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : defender via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Read this entire topic, kinda surprised my self.All I know is that guys say get off my dick in certain places (particularly those where it seems like musical professor might be from based on all his yalls) to other guys all the time, it's just a phrase, I don't blame you for assuming in the moment though.If I were Nocternus, I'd be upset on my girlfriend's behalf, even if I was trying to disconnect my self from the situation, and Dark lives in the UK, a pretty liberal place for the most part, particularly considering the type of people he probably encounters in his chosen career path all the time.I'm glad you mods talked it out first though, a solid idea considering the personal nature, but I don't know who all was involved in that.If he had said, "get off my dick you stupid bitch and go suck your boyfriend Nocternus's instead" than yeah, fuck that guy, that's cut and dry misogyny, and no one needs that shit poisoning their community.I don't really think he'll change, but I agree with the one year ban suggestion as well, because of the continued emails.However even then, a permaban seems a bit over the top, lacking any (credible) or highly graphic, personal threats, since this kind of thing is extremely common in the wider internet, and I'm not even talking the big names like Reddit and 4Chann, so if this is shocking to you than I am both amused, and (honestly) happy for you guys.Also about this cheating thing, I can't imagine why anyone could give two shits what someone did to their own game or how, as long as they didn't effect anyone else E.G. multiplayer or score board.In that case it did, and that's not cool, so since the mods have decided to step in on piracy, talking about bans from games, code stealing, hacking and the like, than it follows that they would disallow talking about this as well, but it's pretty hard to police, just like the code stealing.And yeah, I've seen several topics over the years that basically turned into one of those oil well fires that goes on, and on, and on, right on the front page of which ever room it's in so it's not hard to keep up with, and nothing was done for a very long time about it.Sometimes the retribution was godly in it's application, though often incomplete, but most other times it was just kind of, capped off after the fact.With this many mods, I can't find any excuse accept not wanting to deal with the nonsense, which I get, but it's also what you guys signed up for, and if certain members aren't able to do their job and look at recent high traffic in threads or read reports each day 80% of the time do to other obligations, than they should be replaced, no hard feelings from the kind of people who were accepted in the first place I'd hope...Allot of places have to cycle through admins like this, it's just the nature of the beast.I don't see everyone being away at once being a likely reason either, considering how many times it's happened, though admittedly it was worse when their were less of you guys.The response is still often lackluster however.Maybe we as users just need to report posts more? I usually don't for the really obvious ones as to not flood you guys, but like half of those were never addressed, or only resulted in a warning weeks after the fact, so...I would also really like to see negative karma come back, it's probably like three times a week that I wish for it.The reason it was removed in the first place always seemed kind of ridiculously PC and artificial to me anyway, and upvote and downvote, like and dislike has become a standard all over the web for a good reason.If you have even a slightly thicker skin than the average hormonal teen, which you really should if you intend to use the internet anyway, than this is actually a useful tool to know weather you need to STFU or not, in order to avoid turning people against you, rather than getting them to listen to your argument.Hence you can modify your delivery, and everyone wins.I'm not saying it's always a good thing or doesn't cause conflict, but I think we should at least try it out again. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=351533#p351533 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-14
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum so, according to you, the man above should be allowed to make the joke at a woman because he's a man and she's a woman? I'm sorry, but that doesn't fly with me. had he made that joke at a man, he'd probably be getting his teeth fed to him! Wrecktally! the implication in this case is obvious; he's saying he has a huge penis and the woman should, by default, be interested. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347216#p347216 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum I don't understand the reason for this debate. Musical Professor showed by his words and actions that he needed dealing with using mor than just a warning and the audiogames.net staff dealt with him. End of story. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347186#p347186 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-14
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum @LordLundin,If it is so then it is so, but I didn't intend on making a name for myself out here that aimed to be respected by everyone. Idealy that would be wonderful, but I'm aware of the world I live in, a world that will address me as anything less than normal, sane and inteligent if I'm not seen as normal, sane or inteligent by someone else. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347233#p347233 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-14
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Aprone via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum There are many old tales, intended to warn against dealing with the devil, that demonstrate wishes or requests being granted but twisted in undesirable ways. A child in such a story could wish to be the fastest runner in his gym class, with any number of outcomes. He may be unaffected but all of his classmates become horribly crippled. He may still lose every race because he was granted the ability to just speak faster than any of them. Maybe he can run and win, but he is never able to stop running until he dies. The idea is sometimes referred to as the "Jackass Genie", and by fluctuating between taking every wish as perfectly literal or substituting in figurative meanings, it becomes nearly impossible to actually get what you truly wanted with your wish.There are many people in this world who turn into a version of the "Jackass Genie" when minority groups are involved. I can think of plenty of people who have race on the brain. To them, the whole world is against their particular race, and they will go to great lengths to twist anything said into being about race. Choose white rice over fried rice at dinner? They'll be offended because in their mind you've just made some sort of jab at them. If you watch one TV show over another, they will believe it is because the show has a different number of actors from a particular ethnic background. If you try to explain that the ethnic background of the actors has nothing to do with what shows you watch, the "Jackass Genie" is still in effect, and will twist that to further pull you down the same path. "So you admit then that you don't care about people from race such-and-such!" You cannot win, ever.In more recent years gender issues seem to have risen up to the same intensity as racial ones. I've tried to have conversations with women who turn literally everything into attacks on feminism. No matter how careful you are, everything said is going to be twisted using leaps that are so convoluted and extreme that no sane person is going to follow. People eventually get shoved into so deep a hole that they simply give up and walk away from the conversation, feeling frustrated and ashamed at the state of society, while the "Jackass Genie" leaves feeling further justified in their cause... since they just exposed another anti-feminist.Lundin, you are in a situation where you just aren't going to be able to win. I think you can see that anything you're saying keeps being put through the same filter, and will continue to push you down the same path. You have to fight the urge to fix the situation/misunderstanding because this is a trap, and you're already in it. Like the example above, the only answer is to walk away and feel frustrated.From the very start of this I've been trying to keep myself out of the trap, but I felt compelled to jump in long enough to help you get out. No one ever, EVER, realizes that they are playing the role of a "Jackass Genie", and being accused of it tends to upset people. In real life conversations it results in the Genie then trying to Show me how they are being perfectly reasonable with how they've interpreted everything said, because they are not capable of seeing how insane their leaps are. "But Jeremy, my co-worker said said he'd see me tomorrow! That means he is watching me at work which means he doesn't believe I can do my job properly because I am a woman, and it also means he expects me to be there because obviously I can't afford to take a day off, which is because women get paid less than men! How could anyone disagree that he made a blatantly sexist statement against me as a woman?!" So I walk away and get thrown into the anti-feminist camp along with the poor sap I was stepping in to save. Clearly if I walk away or try to stay out of it, then I've sided against the Genie and therefore are also against their cause. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347223#p347223 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Aprone, well said, my sentiments exactly. Thumbs up to you. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347260#p347260 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-14
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum it comes down to the same thing though, a matter of subjectivity where you have to find some central reference point by which you can be objective. You're going to end up stepping on someone's toes by doing anything that is anything in this crazy world! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347225#p347225 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Basically, my point is that people probably wouldn't be trying to call it misandry if it was aimed at a man. You'd call it a crude reference to genitalia and an attack that shouldn't be made. To me, that's more than enough.The issue here - which admittedly has been blown a bit out of shape by the back-and-forth - is that while this comment -was spoken to a woman, it could just as easily have been spoken to a man. It is offensive no matter its target. What if MusicalProfessor is gay? What if he's ignorant of Nightshade's gender or of the definition of misogyny in the first place? These things might change his intent, which then means one has to consider whether or not the comment actually represents misogyny as it is defined. I maintain that it probably doesn't, but that, as has been stated before, he's definitely crossed a line, and not just by a little either. An indefinite ban - one contingent upon change on MusicalProfessor's end - sounds much better than a permanent ban, which by its definition is not up for change.Sorry for shaking everything up by sticking my nose into this. This has gotten bigger than I think it needed to be. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347229#p347229 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum I think Nocturnus has already explained my position and why I believe misogyny was present in this case. however, the first and formost issue is that of a personal attack of the sort we don't permit on this forum and our response to that attack, I do not believe there is any doubt that a personal attack occurred from the evidence, or at least there was no doubt sufficient to the moderators to deter us from taking the action we have. as to lord Lundin's claims, we do not, cannot and will give privileged status to anyone on this forum irrispective of past conduct. If you were the best games developer in the world, but still spent your time belittling and being a general arse to others, you'd still likely get yourself banned for the good of the community, our job here is to keep order and make this forum a welcoming place, and that doesn't happen if some users are allowed to get mistreating others, indeed we frequently here complaints of online environments where that very thing happens. I did say earlier that moderation needs to be adaptive, this does mean that any permanent ban is not absolutely categorically 100 permanent and will never be reconsidered in the future. Were musical professor to contact us in a year or so and show that he can and has changed his attitude we would reconsider the ban, (we have done so with members in the past), however the change has to come from his side not from ours. In a case like this a simple automated ban removal would not be enough to insure that the offender was likely not to do the same thing again, hence why the ban is permanent as far as the forum goes, but why (despite several offensive emails directed at myself and the rest of the moderation staff which I have not shared), I have not blocked Musical professor's email address. Hope this position makes sense. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347184#p347184 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-14
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : LordLundin via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Thanks Aprone for that wonderful post. Came right after Nocturnus's out right ... yeah he should justify that or at least try to address my actual point, but that'd be inconvenient I assume. As a matter of fact I believe the biggest racists and sexists there is, yet again barring exceptions of extreme cases, are the people who fight for it with their entire soul, because they only see race or gender (/ sex). I, and other normal people don't really do that, so how can we be racist if we don't think in terms of race?Anyway as you said this is a battle that can not be won, experiences in other places should've made me aware of this, but I guess I fall for it each time. I should've known the outcome given the things I reacted to. I'll be stepping away from here until something substancial has come about.@Nocturnus mate, we disagree about a lot of things, but I have always respected you and thought you an intelligent and well-spoken guy. After post 54 I am sorry to say I've lost that respect entirely. Go back, review my post again and if you feel the need to, please respond with something that's actually intelligent and addresses what I said. If you need clarification of some things in my post, please ask and I shall do my best. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347228#p347228 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-14
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : LordLundin via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum I must clear up some confusion it seems. First of all I am not debating the ban of musical professor, I think his manners were childish and appalling. My primary reaction was the term misogyny being thrown around, but I need more time to properly think over and address Nocturnus's last post.Dark, I never asked for privilages nor said anyone should have them based on passed conduct, whether said conduct was good or bad. I simply believe that people can change, which you yourself has stated. I am of the attitude though that musical professor won't be coming back to the forum if he has to crawl and beg for it. Apology is not everyone's strong point. I simply wish we could put a temporary lid on the nusence, but that's my philosophy for most cases barring extremely rare exceptions. A forced lock to prevent an abusive person from getting in until he or she has calmed down to look at it rationally, or til people have forgotten it.Anyway my alcohol has arrived, 12 frekin' bottles of poison on my shelf, so you won't be hearing from me for a while URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347208#p347208 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-14
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : arqmeister via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum With Aprone on this one to the letter, hence me staying out of this. He articulated my feelings about these types of issues better than i ever could, thanks man, well said. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347259#p347259 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-14
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : LordLundin via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum This post will specifically be responding to Nocturnus, post 49.Nocturnus:According to Merriam-Webster: Misogyny refers specifically to a hatred of women. The word is formed from the Greek roots misein (“to hate”) and gynē (“woman”). I'm with you on that term so far. Now let's have a little fun with the second definition.Nocturnus: According to wikipedia: Misogyny is the hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against women or girls. Misogyny can be manifested in numerous ways, including social exclusion, sex discrimination, hostility, androcentrism, patriarchy, male privilege, belittling of women, violence against women, and sexual objectification.This ... is quite disgusting in my opinion. It is exactly like using racism without any regard for what it actually means. Consider the following hypothetical cenario, which, according to your Wikipedia would be misogynistic.A woman is in a bar.A drunk man comes up to her and makes a joke:What's my name? Do you want to know my name? It's hugh mungus. My name is Hugh Mungus.The woman starts screaming and going out of control, acting like a little child. The previous case is well known and is up for debate, but it was the first that came to mind. But we're not yet done here. The women is acting like a little spoiled child, so the man (the internet in this case as the story went) decides to belittle her.And according to you that's misogyny, a heavily loaded word in a negative light. We both agree that misogyny is hatred and prejudice against women, but how can belittling a person that acts like a child be misogyny. After all, the belittling came as a result of her actions, and not his prejudice or hatred for women. Had she not been a a woman, the lable wouldn't be slapped on the perp, just that he was belittling a brat.I could give you a hundred more examples, some real, some fictional that could be real, that could be construed as misogyny only because the victim was a female.Nocturnus:If we use the last two definitions as a point of reference, I contend the following statement, straight from the email, falls under the umbrella of sexual discrimination and sexual objectification and does not make any attempt to hide the implication as such and, more importantly, is phrased rather hatefully."Seriously, get the fuck off my dick for crying out loud and go fuck someone else who is actually causing some bullshit on the sight instead of making somehting out of nothing."How is this hatred towards women? Or prejudice? Maybe I'm not seeing what the rest of progressive society is, so help me.Nocturnus:I've said it before and I'll say it again; if you don't intend for people to infer something by your writing style, consider editing and or don't write I'll grant you the fact that you felt it was misogyny given the context on the forum post, but you specifically said that the emails were misogynistic in nature which I disagree with as explained already. You can not read this guy's mind so it'd be unfair to say stuff about him you don't know to be true.A general comment follows:For me, reading or hearing the word misogyny makes me flinch because I have very conservative opinions regarding those matters. That being said I do not have any hate or prejudice against women and judge everyone on an equal bases with the exception for actual, and factual differences between the two sexes. But I hear lables being flung at me and my political group so often that it's sad, and it's even more sad to see it on a forum where everyone is supposed to be just a screen name and their thoughts. Given other events that have happened on the forum in the passed which I shall not bring up unless I'm asked to. I feel that the crying about sexism is unjust as it bares nothing substancial, as I have pointed out with this response.I'm sure I've missed something here, but I always have. Do correct me. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347214#p347214 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Actually, if that comment cited is taken purely on its own, it is nothing more or less than an explicit reference to genitalia. It could just as easily have been levelled at a man. It's inappropriate no matter who it was aimed at, but it does not constitute misogyny in my book. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347224#p347224 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Aprone, well said, my sentiments exactly. Thumbs up to you. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347260#p347260 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : arqmeister via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum With Aprone on this one to the letter, hence me staying out of this. He articulated my feelings about these types of issues better than i ever could, thanks man, well said. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347259#p347259 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum @LordLundin,If it is so then it is so, but I didn't intend on making a name for myself out here that aimed to be respected by everyone. Idealy that would be wonderful, but I'm aware of the world I live in, a world that will address me as anything less than normal, sane and inteligent if I'm not seen as normal, sane or inteligent by someone else. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347233#p347233 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : LordLundin via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Thanks Aprone for that wonderful post. Came right after Nocturnus's out right ... yeah he should justify that or at least try to address my actual point, but that'd be inconvenient I assume. As a matter of fact I believe the biggest racists and sexists there is, yet again barring exceptions of extreme cases, are the people who fight for it with their entire soul, because they only see race or gender (/ sex). I, and other normal people don't really do that, so how can we be racist if we don't think in terms of race?Anyway as you said this is a battle that can not be won, experiences in other places should've made me aware of this, but I guess I fall for it each time. I should've known the outcome given the things I reacted to. I'll be stepping away from here until something substancial has come about.@Nocturnus mate, we disagree about a lot of things, but I have always respected you and thought you an intelligent and well-spoken guy. After post 54 I am sorry to say I've lost that respect entirely. Go back, review my post again and if you feel the need to, please respond with something that's actually intelligent and addresses what I said. If you need clarification of some things in my post, please ask and I shall do my best. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347228#p347228 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Basically, my point is that people probably wouldn't be trying to call it misandry if it was aimed at a man. You'd call it a crude reference to genitalia and an attack that shouldn't be made. To me, that's more than enough.The issue here - which admittedly has been blown a bit out of shape by the back-and-forth - is that while this comment -was spoken to a woman, it could just as easily have been spoken to a man. It is offensive no matter its target. What if MusicalProfessor is gay? What if he's ignorant of Nightshade's gender or of the definition of misogyny in the first place? These things might change his intent, which then means one has to consider whether or not the comment actually represents misogyny as it is defined. I maintain that it probably doesn't, but that, as has been stated before, he's definitely crossed a line, and not just by a little either. An indefinite ban - one contingent upon change on MusicalProfessor's end - sounds much better than a permanent ban, which by its definition is not up for change.Sorry for shaking everything up by sticking my nose into this. This has gotten bigger than I think it needed to be. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347229#p347229 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum it comes down to the same thing though, a matter of subjectivity where you have to find some central reference point by which you can be objective. You're going to end up stepping on someone's toes by doing anything that is anything in this crazy world! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347225#p347225 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Aprone via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum There are many old tales, intended to warn against dealing with the devil, that demonstrate wishes or requests being granted but twisted in undesirable ways. A child in such a story could wish to be the fastest runner in his gym class, with any number of outcomes. He may be unaffected but all of his classmates become horribly crippled. He may still lose every race because he was granted the ability to just speak faster than any of them. Maybe he can run and win, but he is never able to stop running until he dies. The idea is sometimes referred to as the "Jackass Genie", and by fluctuating between taking every wish as perfectly literal or substituting in figurative meanings, it becomes nearly impossible to actually get what you truly wanted with your wish.There are many people in this world who turn into a version of the "Jackass Genie" when minority groups are involved. I can think of plenty of people who have race on the brain. To them, the whole world is against their particular race, and they will go to great lengths to twist anything said into being about race. Choose white rice over fried rice at dinner? They'll be offended because in their mind you've just made some sort of jab at them. If you watch one TV show over another, they will believe it is because the show has a different number of actors from a particular ethnic background. If you try to explain that the ethnic background of the actors has nothing to do with what shows you watch, the "Jackass Genie" is still in effect, and will twist that to further pull you down the same path. "So you admit then that you don't care about people from race such-and-such!" You cannot win, ever.In more recent years gender issues seem to have risen up to the same intensity as racial ones. I've tried to have conversations with women who turn literally everything into attacks on feminism. No matter how careful you are, everything said is going to be twisted using leaps that are so convoluted and extreme that no sane person is going to follow. People eventually get shoved into so deep a hole that they simply give up and walk away from the conversation, feeling frustrated and ashamed at the state of society, while the "Jackass Genie" leaves feeling further justified in their cause... since they just exposed another anti-feminist.Lundin, you are in a situation where you just aren't going to be able to win. I think you can see that anything you're saying keeps being put through the same filter, and will continue to push you down the same path. You have to fight the urge to fix the situation/misunderstanding because this is a trap, and you're already in it. Like the example above, the only answer is to walk away and feel frustrated.From the very start of this I've been trying to keep myself out of the trap, but I felt compelled to jump in long enough to help you get out. No one ever, EVER, realizes that they are playing the role of a "Jackass Genie", and being accused of it tends to upset people. In real life conversations it results in the Genie then trying to Show me how they are being perfectly reasonable with how they've interpreted everything said, because they are not capable of seeing how insane their leaps are. "But Jeremy, my co-worker said said he'd see me tomorrow! That means he is watching me at work which means he doesn't believe I can do my job properly because I am a woman, and it also means he expects me to be there because obviously I can't afford to take a day off, which is because women get paid less than men! How could anyone disagree that he made a blatantly sexist statement against me as a woman?!" So I walk away and get thrown into the anti-feminist camp along with the poor sap I was stepping in to save. Clearly if I walk away or try to stay out of it, then I've sided against the Genie and therefore are also against their cause. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347223#p347223 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Actually, if that comment cited is taken purely on its own, it is nothing more or less than an explicit reference to genitalia. It could just as easily have been levelled at a man. It's inappropriate no matter who it was aimed at, but it does not constitute misogyny in my book. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347224#p347224 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Aprone via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum There are many old tales, intended to warn against dealing with the devil, that demonstrate wishes or requests being granted but twisted in undesirable ways. A child in such a story could wish to be the fastest runner in his gym class, with any number of outcomes. He may be unaffected but all of his classmates become horribly crippled. He may still lose every race because he was granted the ability to just speak faster than any of them. Maybe he can run and win, but he is never able to stop running until he dies. The idea is sometimes referred to as the "Jackass Genie", and by fluctuating between taking every wish as perfectly literal or substituting in figurative meanings, it becomes nearly impossible to actually get what you truly wanted with your wish.There are many people in this world who turn into a version of the "Jackass Genie" when minority groups are involved. I can think of plenty of people who have race on the brain. To them, the whole world is against their particular race, and they will go to great lengths to twist anything said into being about race. Choose white rice over fried rice at dinner? They'll be offended because in their mind you've just made some sort of jab at them. If you watch one TV show over another, they will believe it is because the show has a different number of actors from a particular ethnic background. If you try to explain that the ethnic background of the actors has nothing to do with what shows you watch, the "Jackass Genie" is still in effect, and will twist that to further pull you down the same path. "So you admit then that you don't care about people from race such-and-such!" You cannot win, ever.In more recent years gender issues seem to have risen up to the same intensity as racial ones. I've tried to have conversations with women who turn literally everything into attacks on feminism. No matter how careful you are, everything said is going to be twisted using leaps that are so convoluted and extreme that no sane person is going to follow. People eventually get shoved into so deep a hole that they simply give up and walk away from the conversation, feeling frustrated and ashamed at the state of society, while the "Jackass Genie" leaves feeling further justified in their cause... since they just exposed another anti-feminist.Lundin, you are in a situation where you just aren't going to be able to win. I think you can see that anything you're saying keeps being put through the same filter, and will continue to push you down the same path. You have to fight the urge to fix the situation/misunderstanding because this is a trap, and you're already in it. Like the example above, the only answer is to walk away and feel frustrated.From the very start of this I've been trying to keep myself out of the trap, but I felt compelled to jump in long enough to help you get out. No one ever, EVER, realizes that they are playing the role of a "Jackass Genie", and being accused of it tends to upset people. In real life conversations it results in the Genie then trying to Show me how they are being perfectly reasonable with how they've interpreted everything said, because they are not capable of seeing how insane their leaps are. "But Jeremy, my co-worker said said he'd see me tomorrow! That means he is watching me at work which means he doesn't believe I can do my job properly because I am a woman, and it also means he expects me to be there because obviously I can't afford to take a day off, which is because women get paid less than men! How could anyone disagree that he made a blatantly sexist statement against me as a woman?!" So I walk away and get thrown into the anti-feminist camp along with the poor sap I was stepping in to save. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347223#p347223 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum so, according to you, the man above should be allowed to make the joke at a woman because he's a man and she's a woman? I'm sorry, but that doesn't fly with me. had he made that joke at a man, he'd probably be getting his teeth fed to him! Wrecktally! the implication in this case is obvious; he's saying he has a huge penis and the woman should, by default, be interested. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347216#p347216 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : LordLundin via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum This post will specifically be responding to Nocturnus, post 49.Nocturnus:According to Merriam-Webster: Misogyny refers specifically to a hatred of women. The word is formed from the Greek roots misein (“to hate”) and gynē (“woman”). I'm with you on that term so far. Now let's have a little fun with the second definition.Nocturnus: According to wikipedia: Misogyny is the hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against women or girls. Misogyny can be manifested in numerous ways, including social exclusion, sex discrimination, hostility, androcentrism, patriarchy, male privilege, belittling of women, violence against women, and sexual objectification.This ... is quite disgusting in my opinion. It is exactly like using racism without any regard for what it actually means. Consider the following hypothetical cenario, which, according to your Wikipedia would be misogynistic.A woman is in a bar.A drunk man comes up to her and makes a joke:What's my name? Do you want to know my name? It's hugh mungus. My name is Hugh Mungus.The woman starts screaming and going out of control, acting like a little child. The previous case is well known and is up for debate, but it was the first that came to mind. But we're not yet done here. The women is acting like a little spoiled child, so the man (the internet in this case as the story went) decides to belittle her.And according to you that's misogyny, a heavily loaded word in a negative light. We both agree that misogyny is hatred and prejudice against women, but how can belittling a person that acts like a child be misogyny. After all, the belittling came as a result of her actions, and not his prejudice or hatred for women. Had she not been a a woman, the lable wouldn't be slapped on the perp, just that he was belittling a brat.I could give you a hundred more examples, some real, some fictional that could be real, that could be construed as misogyny only because the victim was a female.Nocturnus:If we use the last two definitions as a point of reference, I contend the following statement, straight from the email, falls under the umbrella of sexual discrimination and sexual objectification and does not make any attempt to hide the implication as such and, more importantly, is phrased rather hatefully."Seriously, get the fuck off my dick for crying out loud and go fuck someone else who is actually causing some bullshit on the sight instead of making somehting out of nothing."How is this hatred towards women? Or prejudice? Maybe I'm not seeing what the rest of progressive society is, so help me.Nocturnus:I've said it before and I'll say it again; if you don't intend for people to infer something by your writing style, consider editing and or don't write I'll grant you the fact that you felt it was misogyny given the context on the forum post, but you specifically said that the emails were misogynistic in nature which I disagree with as explained already. You can not read this guy's mind so it'd be unfair to say stuff about him you don't know to be true.A general comment follows:For me, reading or hearing the word misogyny makes me flinch because I have very conservative opinions regarding those matters. That being said I do not have any hate or prejudice against women and judge everyone on an equal bases with the exception for actual, and factual differences between the two sexes. But I hear lables being flung at me and my political group so often that it's sad, and it's even more sad to see it on a forum where everyone is supposed to be just a screen name and their thoughts. Given other events that have happened on the forum in the passed which I shall not bring up unless I'm asked to. I feel that the crying about sexism is unjust as it bares nothing substancial, as I have pointed out with this response.I'm sure I've missed something here, but I always have. Do correct me. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347214#p347214 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : LordLundin via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum I must clear up some confusion it seems. First of all I am not debating the ban of musical professor, I think his manners were childish and appalling. My primary reaction was the term misogyny being thrown around, but I need more time to properly think over and address Nocturnus's last post.Dark, I never asked for privilages nor said anyone should have them based on passed conduct, whether said conduct was good or bad. I simply believe that people can change, which you yourself has stated. I am of the attitude though that musical professor won't be coming back to the forum if he has to crawl and beg for it. Apology is not everyone's strong point. I simply wish we could put a temporary lid on the nusence, but that's my philosophy for most cases barring extremely rare exceptions. A forced lock to prevent an abusive person from getting in until he or she has calmed down to look at it rationally, or til people have forgotten it.Anyway my alcohol has arrived, 12 frekin' bottles of poison on my shelf, so you won't be hearing from me for a while URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347208#p347208 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum I think Nocturnus has already explained my position and why I believe misogyny was present in this case. however, the first and formost issue is that of a personal attack of the sort we don't permit on this forum and our response to that attack, I do not believe there is any doubt that a personal attack occurred from the evidence, or at least there was no doubt sufficient to the moderators to deter us from taking the action we have. as to lord Lundin's claims, we do not, cannot and will give privileged status to anyone on this forum irrispective of past conduct. If you were the best games developer in the world, but still spent your time belittling and being a general arse to others, you'd still likely get yourself banned for the good of the community, our job here is to keep order and make this forum a welcoming place, and that doesn't happen if some users are allowed to get mistreating others, indeed we frequently here complaints of online environments where that very thing happens. I did say earlier that moderation needs to be adaptive, this does mean that any permanent ban is not absolutely categorically 100 permanent and will never be reconsidered in the future. Were musical professor to contact us in a year or so and show that he can and has changed his attitude we would reconsider the ban, (we have done so with members in the past), however the change has to come from his side not from ours. In a case like this a simple automated ban removal would not be enough to insure that the offender was likely not to do the same thing again, hence why the ban is permanent as far as the forum goes, but why (despite several offensive emails directed at myself and the rest of the moderation staff which I have not shared), I have not blocked Musical professor's email address. Hope this position makes sense. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347184#p347184 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum I don't understand the reason for this debate. Musical Professor showed by his words and actions that he needed dealing with using mor than just a warning and the audiogames.net staff dealt with him. End of story. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347186#p347186 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum I think Nocturnus has already explained my position and why I believe misogyny was present in this case. however, the first and formost issue is that of a personal attack of the sort we don't permit on this forum and our response to that attack, I do not believe there is any doubt that a personal attack occurred from the evidence, or at least there was no doubt sufficient to the moderators to deter us from taking the action we have. as to lord Lundin's claims, we do not, cannot and will give privileged status to anyone on this forum irrispective of past conduct. If you were the best games developer in the world, but still spent your time belittling and being a general arse to others, you'd still likely get yourself banned for the good of the community, our job here is to keep order and make this forum a welcoming place, and that doesn't happen if some users are allowed to get mistreating others, indeed we frequently here claims of online environments where that very thing happens. I did say earlier that moderation needs to be adaptive, this does mean that any permanent ban is not absolutely categorically 100 permanent and will never be reconsidered in the future. Were musical professor to contact us in a year or so and show that he can and has changed his attitude we would reconsider the ban, (we have done so with members in the past), however the change has to come from his side not from ours. In a case like this a simple automated ban removal would not be enough to insure that the offender was likely not to do the same thing again, hence why the ban is permanent as far as the forum goes, but why (despite several offensive emails directed at myself and the rest of the moderation staff which I have not shared), I have not blocked Musical professor's email address. Hope this position makes sense. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347184#p347184 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum According to Merriam-Webster: Misogyny refers specifically to a hatred of women. The word is formed from the Greek roots misein (“to hate”) and gynē (“woman”). According to wikipedia: Misogyny is the hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against women or girls. Misogyny can be manifested in numerous ways, including social exclusion, sex discrimination, hostility, androcentrism, patriarchy, male privilege, belittling of women, violence against women, and sexual objectification.If we use the last two definitions as a point of reference, I contend the following statement, straight from the email, falls under the umbrella of sexual discrimination and sexual objectification and does not make any attempt to hide the implication as such and, more importantly, is phrased rather hatefully."Seriously, get the fuck off my dick for crying out loud and go fuck someone else who is actually causing some bullshit on the sight instead of making somehting out of nothing."I've said it before and I'll say it again; if you don't intend for people to infer something by your writing style, consider editing and or don't write it at all. That having been said, I'm willing to admit I may have missed something here, but as Dark worded well in post 27, had the words been directed towards anyone else male, heterosexual or homosexual, we'd call a spade a spade. A spade is not a shovel, and it is not a pic axe. If we're throwing around the word misogyny too flippantly or frivilously, please show us another definition and or point of reference to go by that we can all universally stand by. I imagine that we can go round and round on this one and come up with any number of subjective views on the matter, but in the end there has to be a basis by which we ourselves make a decision as truthfully and objectively as possible, and as a panel of moderators that want the gaming industry to succeed for everyone across the board, women included, we chose to make a stand and call this one what we believe it to be. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347180#p347180 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum People fling the word misogyny around way too much, in my opinion. This absolutely does not mean it doesn't happen, and absolutely does not mean that there aren't a whole lot of unacceptable things going on. There are, certainly, many instances of awful behaviour, whether they'd be considered misogyny or not. MusicalProfessor was definitely guilty of that. The only reason I raised the point here is to say that if the reason for his permanent ban was misogyny, it was misapplied. If the reason was for bad behaviour in general, then I still have my concerns but the misogyny thing is just extra. We can agree that something needed to happen without agreeing that his actions were misogynistic.I deliberately left out names precisely to keep past drama out of things, but memory editing is a very sketchy form of game cheating because it can pretty easily be applied to virtually any part of the game. It isn't, say, a built-in cheat code either. Most times, when you buy a product that doesn't come with such things, editing it in this fashion is, at the very very least, extremely dubious. This is why I brought it up. But as stated, I deliberately left out names so as not to start fights, and also mentioned other issues to show that no, I'm not picking on anyone. The sad fact is that sometimes bad things happen and they aren't really punished in a way that would make sense with the precedent apparently set with this banning. That's all. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347174#p347174 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : bookrage via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum even if the misogyny label doesn't fit, the behavior I feel was still unacceptable, also when one writes on a public forum or to someone, one must be careful to speak and write in such a way to avoid confusion. I don't quite see messogyny in the posts myself, but I feel from the description of the original post that there very well could've been some or the claim was at least viable. As Dark said it was not this that got the person a permanent ban, but their reaction to correction. If you aren't going to play by the rules here and are going to snap and be a jerk when you are corrected, you shouldn't be here. With the e-mail and such I didn't see misogyny but even so I think it warrants a ban. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347142#p347142 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : LordLundin via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum A couple of things here.I've read Jades posts, and my initial reaction was reflected in his extremely well thought out argumentation which I won't be able to reproduce. But to put it simply, the emails shared did not necessarily prove misogonistic (can't be bothered to look spelling up) intent. Crudeness, anger and frustration, sure. Unwarrented and silly, sure. But a direct attack against someone's sex or sexual preference? No.The error made here is a logical fallacy in which the victim gets to pick the perps motive by the virtue that he or she was offended, so it must be misogonistic (fuck, I should really look up the spelling of that, seeing as politically I'll probably have to use it a lot in the future).What you fail to understand if applying this lable is that the victim does not get to decide the motivation or intent of the perp. In short, no one here can read thoughts. And even if you could, no thought no matter how cruel or messed up is illegal, it's the actions that define us.I did not see any direct misogonistic ... fuck, I'm looking that up right now. BRB ... misogynistic ... ahh that's not even a word, well it is now. I'll let the above post remain as it is to show my ignorance. Now let's continue:I did not see any direct misogyny in said emails. What I did see was the moderators slapping the lable onto the evidence based on what they personally felt about it instead of out right proof, and here there were no such proof in this case.My second point about people returning from bans. My philosophy goes like this, when it comes to the world in general.We all do good things, and bad things, good and bad is of course up for definition but for me good amounts to something positive for the human experience, or to further the progress of humanity while bad of course means the contrary. So while there has been people here who have done terrible things in the passed, me included, we have also learned from said experiences and even in the middle of my broken English mental clusterfuck I was still contributing to the forum. I haven't seen musical professor contribute from my definition of the word, enriching knowledge or perspective, or if he has, the bad outweighs the good, which can't be said for people like me or Sam Tupy if that was who you were referring to when someone said ... ahh I can't remember.In conclution:A one-year ban should suffice, after all this person might, just like me, experience something enlightening and come back with a better understanding and tolerance and contribute to the forum. My understanding is that we want as many people from as many backgrounds and perspectives as possible, yes?Furthermore, I'd drop the misogyny angle on the whole ordeal. Outlined by both me and Jade and possibly others, it is nothing but someone being offended and trying to justify the lable by playing the feelings game, and to me that just looks pathetic and unprofessional.I hope you consider what I've said and understand that I don't intend to offend anyone but at the same time these are my opinions and I have to stand by them. That is not to say my opinions and thoughts aren't up for debate or being challenged, I love new perspectives but so far in this topic I've seen just the same old debate we've seen the last 10 years or so. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347133#p347133 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum @Dark, I know. I was just stating for the record my thoughts since Jade did involve me by mensioning what I did with Manamon. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347007#p347007 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Can we please avoid bringing up lots of old history here, those sorts of things never go well, particularly because to be honest I don't exactly recall which incidents your talking about specifically there jade.. For future reference I can say every reported post that gets submitted to the mods gets read. Not just the post itself but the topic, so if there is an issue, report it and it will! be dealt with. @Ethin, same goes for you too, lets let the past lie please, unless something new comes to light I'd prefer to move forward than backward. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346980#p346980 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Since Jade has dragged me into this discussion -- at least this new branch of the discussion, as it were -- without actually mentioning my name, I will state here that cheating a game is not against the rules. The mods cannot punish me, someone who cheated my stats with a free and open source cheating engine, for doing something I did not do on the forum. I said I had done it, yes. But I didn't break any rules whatsoever. The fact that it may or may not be paid is irrelevant. If we banned people for cheating games from the forum then most, if not all, of the people on this forum would not be here today, since I'm sure that all of us have used cheat codes or other cheating methods in games before. Was cheating it wrong? Yes. Did it make it fun? In a way, it did. Did it give me a significant advantage over the rest of the players when in online mode? Yes. Is it reproducible? Yes, with difficulty. The fact of the matter is you can't say that cheating is against the rules since I have no doubt that ever single person on this forum has cheated a game in one way or another, whether it be cheat codes (legally or illegally obtained), cheat engine, memory modification, etc. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346966#p346966 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-10
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : bookrage via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum And although I'm not sure I fully agree with you, and again I haven't been here long, I'm not blaming you for your objections @jade, on the contrary, I'm applauding you for bringing them up, as long as there is deliberate commitment to discussion, which I still see here, though I have seen it die in other threads in awful ways, only good can come from it so keep it up. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346960#p346960 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Bookrage,There was a forum user last year who used a tool to edit stats in Manamon. Nothing happened to him.There was a player who said he would do whatever it took, including hacking, to have a game he didn't like taken down. The game in question was, I think, an Ultra Power clone, but again, no punishment.I've seen people warned for flaming other users who backed off for a day or two, then started up again later, and presumably weren't dealt with in any way that stuck.These precedents tell me that either 1. the mods are more permissive than I'd probably be in the same situation, or 2. there are elements of all those situations that I don't understand. God knows that's possible.But when MusicalProfessor got himself a permanent ban and then made things worse, it's a case of "lock the door and throw away the key until further notice". Bear in mind, please, that I'm not arguing that his ban should be lifted right here and now. No, he's not going to get a slap on the wrist just because others have.The real question here is whether this behaviour on the part of the mods was accidental or deliberate. If it's accidental, then bringing it to their attention the way I've done may help a great deal in setting future precedents. If it is deliberate, though, it goes back to what I said before...either there's stuff I don't know, or there's a bit of an issue based on which buttons are being hit.I'm clarifying this for you so that you understand that no, I'm not actually suggesting this is a deliberate precedent. I think it's very likely just happened, and I've gotten to see it in progress. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346957#p346957 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-10
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : bookrage via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum I have heard you guys arguing that there have been less significant punishments for more severe attacks. I'd like to speak on that.For one, the mods even with posting stuff that they've seen publicly probably have a better grasp of the situation than we do, and they are doing the best they can. You heard that they discussed this sort of thing with one another before coming to their decision.Also, bringing up examples of others who have made as bad personal attacks and gotten just warnings does not actually, if we're following logical rules of argumentation, strengthen your points. You acknowledge that at least for the most part, you agree that Musical Professor was in the wrong and should have been banned, but it seems he was overpunished to you. When you bring up examples of worse behavior and minor punishments of those people, I seem to perceive that the argument you are actually going for, whether you are aware or not, as the conclusion for this one makes more sense, that more people should be banned. from the site rather than punishments ought to be lightened.You use worse behavior to excuse slightly better behavior which none of the people arguing has said was permissible or allowable. To me that means that the argument is more against those who are still around and being inappropriate than arguing for clemency for Musical Professor. You do say a permanent ban seems a bit harsh, but arguing by nature of the crowd is a logically fallacious means of argumentation.. If you are going to use the general forum approach to wrongdoers, you first have to convince me or your opponents that their light sentences aare what they deserve an they don't deserve what Musical-professor got. I'd also like to see evidence rather than vague ascertions. I am aware that there's a lot of flaming going around from my short time here, but Musical Professor is near the top on inappropriateness that I've seen and I also have little tolerance for personal attacks. He also has a history which should and did come into play.Also, if the harsh environment on the forums bothers you and you think the moderators aren't catching it or are being too lenient, tell them about it when you see it and don't just trust them to catch it. There's a lot of activity on this forum and we can't expect them to catch everything. That said against those who are somewhat questioning the severity of the punishment. I am very pleased that you guys are speaking out on it. I have my own reservations despite what I said above especially with posting the private message and e-mail publicly which I understand the logic behind it as Dark explained it but I feel still shows a great lack of respect and is a breech of privacy, though I understand Dark and the other mods in doing it and don't want to argue that point any further.I also think that it is the obligation of any member of a community to speak out against wrongdoing or to question where they think it might be, whether that is big things on a forum like reporting trolls or another forum example, discussing policies with Mods or the community at large. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346938#p346938 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum @Jade, the above comments about adaptive moderation will answer your question about precedents, namely that we do things according to the situation with the best of our ability at the time. so the ban might be effectively permanent and will not end according to an automated schedule, but we wouldn't be against discussing the situation with musical professor again at a relatively distant future time.I will say though, I have usually noticed when things have got to this sort of pass it is precisely because! the person cannot admit themselves that they might have been in the wrong, therefore matters are unlikely to change, hence the permanent ban at this stage, still we'll see what happens, and for now at least the forum is free from one source of insulting behaviour. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346924#p346924 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-10
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Meh, slam the door on the guy, why do we want that type of thing going on, people like that will not change, not that are that far over the edge. This isn't 4chan. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346922#p346922 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-10
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : DarfVader via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Agreed with jade on this one. I’ve seen much worse flaming and insults that only got warnings. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346885#p346885 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Okay I'll be fairly brief because i have a rotten cold and am feeling quite crappy this morning. @Jade, you have articulated your points well. I don't personally agree but I respect the argument you've made and consider the point before discussing future possible misogyny. yes certainly, had Musical professor discussed his warning reasonably, we would not be having this conversation now since it is trivially true that had he not sent an offensive response to his initial warning he would not be in trouble over that offensive response, however this doesn't say much.You can say that if the mugger had been able to make himself money some other way he wouldn't have done the mugging, however it is equally true that it is the mugging, and not the lack of money that got the mugger in trouble with the police, and it is also logically true that while all muggers want money, not everyone who wants money commits muggings. In the same way, it might be true that it was musical professor's lack of facility for rational discussion that caused him to resort to insults, however not everyone who lacks articulation automatically resorts to insults either. As to the talk of the democracy etc, that's a hole can of worms. My personal philosophy on this is that no, the forum is not itself a democracy, however as staff we are manifestly here for the good of our members, not the other way around. As most libertarians will tell you, acting in the best interests of a group or individual automatically implies that you respect that group or individual's freedom of choice.This means for all practical purposes, no we are not absolutely bound! to do something just because the majority say we should, but if we're going against people's preferences, we better have a bloody good reason for doing so. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346850#p346850 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum I didn't mean to suggest that this was a dictatorship, just that it's not a democracy in that the staff isn't under any edict or decree to make everyone happy but to consider the community as a whole and do what is best for it, regardless of what some members may think. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346863#p346863 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Dark, that's a fair point. And as I've said a bunch of times now, I'm not trying to make excuses for the guy. I'm worried about precedents and such more than anything else. I'm glad I haven't stepped on your toes, sorry to hear about the cold, and I guess the best I can hope for is that after a goodish while has passed, maybe this will be something you and the mod team will consider revisiting in some capacity. Not to tacitly admit that you were wrong - that's not what I'm after here - but more to suggest that times, people and situations change. There is, after all, a reason why most criminals, even the ones who do some pretty bad stuff, aren't put in jail for life with no chance of parole. It takes a pretty grievous offense to get that sort of sentence. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346859#p346859 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Okay I'll be fairly brief because i have a rotten cold and am feeling quite crappy this morning. @Jade, you have articulated your points well. I don't personally agree but I respect the argument you've made and consider the point before discussing future possible misogyny. yes certainly, had Musical professor discussed his warning reasonably, we would not be having this conversation now since it is trivially true that had he not sent an offensive response to his initial warning he would not be in trouble over that offensive response, however this doesn't say much.You can say that if the mugger had been able to make himself money some other way he wouldn't have done the mugging, however it is equally true that it is the mugging, and not the lack of money that got the mugger in trouble with the police, and it is also logically true that while all muggers want money, not everyone who wants commits muggings. In the same way, it might be true that it was musical professor's lack of facility for rational discussion that caused him to resort to insults, however not everyone who articulation automatically resorts to insults either. As to the talk of the democracy etc, that's a hole can of worms. My personal philosophy on this is that no, the forum is not itself a democracy, however as staff we are manifestly here for the good of our members, not the other way around. As most libertarians will tell you, acting in the best interests of a group or individual automatically implies that you respect that group or individual's freedom of choice.This means for all practical purposes, no we are not absolutely bound! to do something just because the majority say we should, but if we're going against people's preferences, we better have a bloody good reason for doing so. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346850#p346850 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Back in my professional life before I lost my vision, I administered our user's forum. One of the features of the forum software we use was a warning system that kept track of how many times a member was warned, when they were warned, and why they were warned. These warnings were visible to anyone who was logged in as a member simply by viewing a member's profile.This way when somebody got banned, everyone could see the history of warnings the banned member received.This also had the benefit that me and the moderating team rarely had to explain ourselves or our actions. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346843#p346843 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-09
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : braille0109 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum I wasn't going to comment any more, but I feel like as if I should. I kind of, OK, more than a little, have to agree with Jade here. there have been a number of personal attacks, towards sam tupy, or just other members during threads, I can even send a link to one, where we only had standard warnings. others have raised concerns of how people aren't banned here. with that said, after this guy getting the warning, from what I understand, he had a fit privately, which caused him to get banned. having said that, I know some of what I said above, they didn't get their first warning. I'm not disagreeing with admin actions either, in fact, I guess what I'm saying is, maybe we need to revise the wrong and the right, and perhaps edit the rules/warnings/bans, if need be. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346775#p346775 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum My two cents.Whatever decision the staff of audiogames.net comes to when dealing with problem members is fine by me because this isn't a democracy, it's their site and they have the right to do with it what ever they feel is best for it.End of story. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346754#p346754 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum You misunderstand me a bit here. I'm not saying I have to shut up because I'm afraid of the mods. I'm not. I know I haven't done anything that breaks rules or seriously insults anyone. I've made a bit of a challenge to something I'm a bit concerned about while also conceding that Musical Professor needed dealing with. If I for some reason thought that doing so was dangerous, I frankly wouldn't be here. No no. When I said I'd shut up, all I meant is that I really have nothing else to say that wouldn't be repeating myself.Regardless of that guy's ability to help himself or whatnot, threatening the site and whatever, no matter how nebulous the treats might seem and how powerless he might actually be to carry them out, is also not acceptable. That might have justified the ban in and of itself (i.e., if he'd argued the way I am, maybe he gets a hearing, but the way he dealt with it just slams the door on him). I'm not sure. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346756#p346756 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-09
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum @Jayde,Shut up? Please don't! don't turn into one of those guys who basically has this "the mods will flog me because I don't say as they do and do as they say" mentality. That's not who we are and, the day that becomes even one member of the moderation panel I'll be the one bringing it up for deep discussion, or throwing in the towel and making sure everyone and their mother knows why! it's unacceptable!Your concerns are well articulated and deserve our attention; I am personally giving them my time and willingly so! Honestly, I'm still in shock over the whole thing and, what makes it even more interesting is that what you say may have some truth to it! Perhaps the guy seriously can't help himself for whatever the reason may be! Here's the problem: when he received his ban he decided to continue being threatening, to the point of suggesting that he would personally make sure this entire site went down! We have to draw lines somewhere!My overall philosophy when running/leading anything has always been a more laid back, laissez-faire type approach where there are as few regulations as possible and few people to clamp down on you. there's enough legalism in the world elsewhere that, especially when it comes to gaming, I don't see why gamers should have to worry about who is going to tell them what to do. the obvious problem with this idea is that anyone has the right to pretty much disregard anyone else. A system like the one here on ag net doesn't allow for such things, and those of us who police it are entirely aware of it.Sadly, we'll never get it entirely right, and there are times when, even while I'm handing down a verdict I'm wondering what the overall consequence is going to be to the forum collectively. Nevertheless, I keep on trying and, as I stated in post 16, if it's an issue called to my attention personally, and I can be sure of how the majority is spelling it, I'll make sure to the best of my abilities the majority wins. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346751#p346751 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Yeah..I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here, Dark. Crudity, yes. Misogyny/sexism (at least in the posts I saw)? Not necessarily.I know it was his second warning, or I'd probably have suggested a one-month or three-month ban for a first offense when it comes to personal attacks. This forum is run fairly loosely, so if nothing else, coming down harder on him when other personal attacks have been let off with warnings or less seems a bit odd to me.I don't like being a traffic cop, citing offenses wherever I can in order to make a quota. I hate that feeling. This is why I don't report every single post I see as somewhat offensive, because frankly I have thick skin and don't want to give you folks even more to dredge through. I also tend to steer clear of certain types of threads, at least at present, because not only am I uninterested in the subject matter but I know the sorts of people which frequent them, and the sort of conversations they incite. Four words. Sam Tupy. Ultra Power. No, they aren't related, I know that, but just look at all the grief over certain games related to Sam, and all the grief about Ultra Power clones, people trying to hack them. One forum member who is currently in good standing has, in the past, gone so far as to say he'd hack and encourage others to learn how to do so because of some sort of unfairness. The decision that was brought down in that case was basically "everybody stop fighting". Never mind the illegality.So I'm afraid, as I said, we'll just have to not see eye to eye. If you like, though, I'll keep more of an eye out for the kind of things I'm thinking about for review, and flag them to your attention. I am not angry, not trying to micromanage your job nor impugn your decision-making skills. I disagree with you on a couple of things and think maybe this whole reaction was just a bit too strong (but only a bit, mind you), given the decisions and precedents made and set elsewhere, but I can and will leave it there. I can assure you that I'm not looking for an excuse to cause drama. This thread wasn't locked, however, and so I thought it was within my rights to speak my mind. Having done so, I'll shut up now. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346745#p346745 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum I use the term "misogyny" in this case because degrading sexual language was used to a woman in a situation where the poster was certain of her gender, particularly following on from the so called aforementioned "joke", and the term misogyny is I find a more helpful one when discussing insulting behaviour than the culturally loaded, frequently misused and often polarising term "sexism" Had the remarks been made to an openly gay or transgender man I'd have used the term "homophobic" had the remarks been made to a straight man I'd have assumed that either A, the poster was simply sighting cultural standards of crudity in order to be offensive or B, the poster was showing an implicit homophobia in implication that the man he addresses was gay and thus a target for sexual based insults.had the poster been female and addressed a similar level of sexually crude remarks to a man I'd have accused her of misandry. All this however is rather beside the point, since whatever category of offense you file it under, musical professor was definitely trying to be offensive here. As we all know, personal attacks aren't allowed on this forum, and sexual insults are about as personal as personal attacks get. The fact that said personal attack may or may have some of extra nasty agenda behind it is just the extreme foul icing on the truly disgusting cake, a cake which we shal neither have nor eat around here! As regards the severity of the ban Jade, also recall this is not the first time musical professor has been offensive (I can actually go and dig the post out if you wish), he received a temporary ban on that occasion, so this was! his second chance. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346741#p346741 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-09
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum I actually think there could be some mental illness there judging from that post. His thoughts seem chaotic and his reasoning doesn't make sense. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346738#p346738 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum And that's precisely my point from the first post I made in this topic. People who have been banned for hacking, for distributing keys to software, for encouraging piracy in general, for linking to other illegal material, have been allowed to come back eventually. Some have reformed, the odd one has not, and I have no doubt that the ones who have not reformed have gotten the hammer again. Rightly so, too, I might add.The reason I'm splitting hairs on misogyny is because, while I do agree that something like that should result in a permanent ban - we really, really don't need any more of it in the world, much less this community - I'm not convinced that the posts I've seen were misogynistic. Inappropriate, certainly, and worthy of punishment, but not misogynistic. If the punishment for generally offensive/hostile conduct was, say, a year's ban, while the punishment for misogyny was a permanent one, perhaps the permanent-ban punishment in this case was misapplied due to a difference in label.It is my opinion that people throw the word "misogyny" around way, way too much.What we have here is someone who did not take his warning well at all. He deserved to be punished for the way he reacted. As has been stated - and I agree with this sentiment - if he'd responded to his warning with humility and an apology, then okay...you keep an eye out, but you let it go, conditionally anyway. What we also have here, I think, is someone whose ability to communicate in writing is actually putting him at a disadvantage. Most of the mods are well-spoken and easily able to articulate themselves. This guy, I think, isn't in that same position. So he reacted to being warned by going over the top and getting hostile, very likely because he's feeling threatened/outgunned and helpless. This is a reaction I've seen time and time again.And lest you think I'm a bleeding heart who wants to give everyone a chance, please remember what I said before. He doesn't deserve a free pass. He did wrong and needs dealing with. For me personally, for whatever this might be worth, I'd have given him a six-month or year ban, then let him back with the understanding that his next offense was the end of the line. Period. No discussion, no appeal, game over. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346736#p346736 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-09
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Call it what you will, but those posts were over the top, and even if the definition doesn't fit the bill, the intent was to be insulting, and degrading, so in this case, I don't see a permanent ban being a bad thing. You often don't see them here, and the mods bring back people all the time after a while who probably shouldn't have come back, and some of those people carry on, or at least tone it down but still carry on the same way where instead of being over the line, they're skirting it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346731#p346731 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum I have been a moderator elsewhere, and have been known for being something of a devil's advocate throughout my life. I'm okay with stress most of the time, am not super-emotional and believe myself fairly objective. I've never been a mod here, but I've considered it from time to time. As such...no, I don't know this job specifically, but I have a decent idea of it.I am not saying the mods here did a bad job. They didn't. I'm simply a little concerned.One very specific issue I have is that thing about misogyny. I did not see MusicalProfessor's first comment, but the responses posted in this thread are not misogynistic. Inappropriate, yes, but not misogynistic. Misogyny is essentially defined as a hatred, fear or mistrust toward women. By invoking one's genitalia in a post in an insulting manner, you aren't automatically guilty of misogyny. This does not, as I said though, mean that you're acting properly either. You won't catch me saying that he didn't do wrong. I'm a bit of a hair-splitter I suppose. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346719#p346719 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum @Nocturnus post 16: This, right here, yes. [[wow]]. Just [[wow]]. That last point about friends hit home for me in a good way, i.e: to the point I was nearly in tears. I've grown up with this place, and now I'm on the mod paenl but that's not necessarily the point. The point is, I consider a lot of people here as friends, even f I'm not in contact with some either in person or a one-to-one or voicechat basis, I always look forward to reading posts from people and having a good laugh.@Ironcross32 post 21: Your very first sentence is exactly what I'd say as well: you do not know the job until you do it, or whatever the sentence was. Case in point, me as a mod. I am the kind of person who feels much more comfortable with warnings than bans, and if I'm involved with something that might need more attention, I go to the team if things do not calm down in a reasonable amount of time, lest I accidentally be too harsh and would rather discuss more severe punishments with the mods, or someone like Dark might see it anyway. I don't consider myself week as such, I just get worried about getting too severe at something that might not necessarily need me to be as severe. I am also a mainstream gamer and go on mainstream forums, and to then come back here and sometimes, and I do thankfully say sometimes! end up seeing lots of flame wars going on, surprises me a bit, especially when sometimes coming back from the mainstream scene where some of those posts can occasionally make my teeth grind because people don't seem to use logic. Those posts aren't even against me, it's just in general when you end up seeing silly arguments breaking out and in my mind I'm thinking to these mainstream people, good gosh, grow up already. Now, in the audiogaming scene, I think it's a little bit different but still can be annoying, as the community is a lot smaller so I almost think some sort of inevitable something, whatever that something is, will happen. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346700#p346700 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-09
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum The one thing I can say to those who may be wondering about the fairness of this, you don't know the job until you've done it. Now, I've never been a moderator of a forum, that's true enough, but I have been involved with administration of other projects. What it takes to do the job well is to be objective, taking your own emotion out of the equation. But, you also have people pulling at you in all directions like, anyone remember Stretch Armstrong? You also have to bee OK with everything you do being questioned at some point, because even if you're the worst sort of dictator, who just swings the ban hammer with a vengeance, even if people don't say anything out loud, they're still questioning you in their own minds. So, be OK with judgements cast on you, an be OK with people questioning your decisions, or it will get to you. Another qualification would be how well you handle stress, because if you're too emotional, and easily upset or offended, you really do not want to become involved in staffing much of anything. You also need to be able to work with your team, and know when to back away and let one of them deal with a situation you don't feel you should handle. What I mean by this, is everyone has people they don't particularly like. Maybe, in such a case, they might be more harsh on such a person if that person committed an infraction. In this case, its best for you to be able to reflect on the situation, and realize that you're not best suited to deal with it and ask for someone else to step in. To maintain the professionalism across the board, a level of unity among all the team is needed. That means working together, discussing issues, etc. I would also say a balanced personality is probably another good thing to have. In other words, if you're a sun shine all the time type of person, its probably not a good idea for you to staff things, because you'll never feel that need to discipline anyone, even if its well-warranted. On the other hand, if you're a a few shades too dark, you'll miss a lot of good in people, you'll see mostly negativity everywhere. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346650#p346650 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum @Big gun, the reason this was posted is because Nightshade deleted the offending post, and then her warning and Musical professor's response were by email. As I said in post 13 we try to keep things above board and open, and you can imagine yourself the kind of flame storm we might have had if musical professor spoke to another member off the forum, then that person came here and posted something along the lines of my good friend musical professor was banned permanently, but he was only joking and this is very unfair and the moderators are evil!" ~@Jade the severity of the ban in this case was mostly due to Musical professor's response to Nightshade's warning. Hadhe he apologised, acknowledged the warning or even said nothing, things wouldn't have gone beyond the warning state. Firstly, it was the fact that his response to nightshade was so down right nasty, and secondly that said response definitely! dipped into areas of misogyny, ie, hateful remarks made to Nightshade due to her being female (there is a reference to his genitalia in the above post). that sort of thing we will not tolerate, anymore than we'd tolerate insults made specifically against men, those who are homosexual or transgender, people of different races or cultures, disabilities etc.Even the initial joke was edging into misogynistic territory what with the reference to a "wife's job" being to satisfy her husband's sexual needs, though had that joke been Musical professor's only offending remark we would've left matters at a warning as I said. As regards other personal attacks etc on the forum, well as I've said before we are not omnipresent. This particular insult came to our attention obviously since it was made about me, but if you think we've missed something, feel free to report. This is one reason we've been taking on more staff recently, since I'm very pleased to say the board is huge. i can't speak for leniency, that is likely a difference of approach, generally we try to way each situation individually rather than apply rigid guidelines, one reason why becoming a moderator on here is not a simple click and apply process, since we need to be sure mods can judge and act adaptively.will say in the matter of hacking and probable code theft, it's often really! hard to actually judge the rights and wrongs of the situation, frequently because the offenses have not been documented in a public manner and generally your left with lots of different factions all telling slightly different histories, this is why we try not to be overly harsh or jump into situations where we might have incomplete information too rashly. Hope this answers at least some of the questions. Remember, that we are all definitely human beings, keeping this place running as best we can, and trying to avoid the forum becoming either a trollers parodise (facebook anyone?), or a rigid Orwellian police state is not always an easy line to walk. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346622#p346622 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum I'm going to be brutally honest here. I agree with the ban, but I also think he had a point.I've seen all kinds of flaming, swearing, insults and the like that probably merited more action than they got, so it feels just a wee bit as if this guy was made an example of.I do not for a second suggest that his behaviour should've been let to stand. Whether or not he was originally joking, he was rude and abrasive and hostile. That's not okay. But I've seen equal and worse on the forums from members who were given warnings or very, very temporary bans, to the best of my knowledge. I'd have to go digging through years of back posts to find what I'm talking about, and I don't really want to do that.So I'm not at all left with the idea that you treated this dude unfairly, but I'm not certain that standards are being evenly applied, either. I would, in point of fact, probably be a touch more harsh overall than you guys seem to be, particularly in more serious cases of flaming and trolling and insults and stuff that periodically break out on the board.So I suppose what I'm saying is that it surprised me a little to see this guy get a permanent ban. Not a six-month ban, or a one-year ban, but a permanent ban. Never coming back. I would've thought that sort of reaction would be for, say, distributing hacks, linking to illegal material, stalking in the true sense of the term, stuff like that.But that's just my two cents' worth. I'm not asking or expecting you to further justify yourself. I understand what was done and why, and I think the bits I've seen are pretty freaking silly and definitely merited some firm form of punishment. I'm just not a hundred percent sure about the severity of the infraction vs. the severity of the punishment, given the severity of other infractions which have been allowed to slide. I mean, do we not have at least one forum member here who has a known history, however reformed he may be now, of hacking/illegally modifying code? To me, that's a much greater threat to the community at large than one loose cannon with a bunch of distasteful things to say. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346597#p346597 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-08
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : bookrage via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum I've seen Musical Professor sling out a lot of casual swearing but from what I remember they didn't do a lot I found objectionable, though again, a bit on the language but if you're on the internet you get used to it and they struck me as rather impulsive.That said, even if they had had no behavior problems before, with those nasty posts you guys shared with us, I think a permanent ban would be more than deserved. There is no excuse for being trollish on the forums. Just because you're behind a screen doesn't mean you can act like a jerk and not be a jerk so as I said in point 1 in post 11. I am fully behind you in the ban. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346566#p346566 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-08
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : BigGun via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum well, I have seen that guy post, you know, noticed the name, but I cant renember anything afencive about him. Maybe he could have you know, used sware words or something but I dout that and I don't renember. I was indeed surprised that he got banned because by his posts that I renember he wasn't a kind of person that would rant.also btw, I agree with post 11 about fieling sad for stupid persons on the net. for what ever reason, on both online game on on forums/message bords, I always try to leave all stupid topics as soon as possible. most likely because I cant stand the way others react to that, but not sure. anyway, I am almost happy that I didn't see the afending post, and I hope that we will have less of these kinds of annoyances in the future.btw why did the mod team post this in the first place? I mean, if he got perminantly banned, I have no idea why would you still ask for community suggestions. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346550#p346550 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-08
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum I prefer the transparency to the idea that I'm just being a demanding do as I say corn door darting douch; like Dark said, there's enough dictatorial people in this world to go around. In fact, to give you all just a little more insight as to how things go down between us without disclosing far too much, almost every single occasion where we have banned someone and on many occasions where we are simply getting ready to dish out a warning, the matter is discussed in detail, always with the same concept even if it is phrased differently from time to time, the idea being that we don't want to do anything as a knee jerk reaction because we ourselves feel too strongly about something. the fact that Dark sent us a message and told us as a team to look into the matter is not a first and will not be the last time a mod or administrator contacts the team as a whole and says, "Please, shed some light on this so that it's not just my opinion and I'm not seen as flying off the handle at something that is actually not as bad as I think it is."A good example I don't mind sharing with you all because it actually happened to me personally was one in which I unintentionally failed to make myself clear on a topic that concerned some rather interesting and profound content, philosophical, spiritual and religious in nature. A few of my posts within this particular topic were apparently misinterpreted and or possibly just seen as down right offensive because I suppose I worded them too strongly or with far too much emphasis; I honestly don't know. Needless to say that the posts were reported to the moderation panel and the matter was brought to my attention, at which point I felt the need to reiterate as I have always tried to out here and just about everywhere else, that I have nothing against anyone as a person, that I hold nothing against anyone else's beliefs, ideas, perspectives or even one's worldview, no matter how radical it may seem to me or how much I myself may disagree with it. No person is beneath me or less than myself simply because I cannot accept or agree with their way of thinking or their lifestyle. At the end of the day I dont' care if you're the greatest saint known to humankind or if you feel like the most worthless person that has ever walked this side of the planet neptune because you've had to make decisions in your life you either know or personally feel are unethical and immoral, I'll stand beside you and, given the chance, put my arm around you just the same, to comfort you, to motivate you, to encourage you, to give you whatever strength and or hope I can so that you might carry on just one more day.Getting back to the topic at hand though, yes, the truth is that Dark has the final and overall say in just about every moderation decision that is ever made, but he does not make those decisions lightly, nor does he ever make them without consulting the panel first. this is why even when I can't agree with the decisions he makes which have been few and far between, I can fully and willingly support him and stand behind every single one of them. We get to see first hand the process as the choice is made; there is never a time where he just slams down the gavel, as it were, tyranically and says, "Screw the rest of you! What I say goes!" If we're ever left in doubt, he'll always justify his decision reasonably and admit to when he's seriously messed up. when we ourselves are responsible for taking care of a decision on the forum, be it a warning or a ban, he gives us free reign to do so and doesn't really stand in the way of anything, trusting in us as a group of individuals he has carefully picked out over the years to handle the task to the best of our abilities, flawed humans that we are.To conclude, we do our best to lead by example; any rules that have been established here are rules we ourselves intend to follow as best we can, else we wouldn't expect you to do it as well. There is no good leader who cannot be a good follower first. for my part, I can honestly say that you, the community inspire any decision I might make because I do my best to make it on your behalf and not my own. if you have a problem, question or suggestion I can clearly see is collectively receiving a fair amount of attention I will take it upon myself to approach Dark and the rest of the moderation panel concerning the matter. I believe the others for the most part do this as well to some degree or another. this is your community, your forum. We exist to keep it as clean and civil as possible. We're not here to hinder you; we're here to help. We want to be seen as your friends, and sometimes your friends do have to give you a kick in the pants. Believe me, we don't like doing it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346531#p346531 ___ Audiogames-reflector mai
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum I'd like to add that posting this kind of thing publicly also ensures that people know why someone was banned. If mods do all the banning and stuff privately, and someone sees one of their posts and notices that they were banned, they'll want to know why. Posting reasons why they were banned in a public post or topic discloses exactly why and alleviates such questions. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346500#p346500 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-08
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : shotgunshell via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum @Dark Usually moderation warnings get me to flinch. Not sure why that is but whatever. If I see someone say moderation towards me it causes me to flip out for a second or flinch or something of that nature. I think I have gotten warnings a couple times for saying stupid things, hopefully I haven't said something stupid to many times. I don't know why people can't just listen to the mods when they give orders and leave it at that, instead of going, "oh your rules are stupid, I hate you, etc etc etc." I would like to see more of those people apologizing for their actions, but I don't think that's gonna happen any time. Although, if someone can't spell banned right I don't think much about their insults anyways. Sorry if my post is all over the place, I just woke up and I'm a bit tired. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346486#p346486 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum While i do see Bookrage's point about privacy there are several reasons why we give warnings etc in public. the most major one is that of accountability.You only have to look at some of the really serious flame we've seen around here concerning online games and such, where people are posting random skype or chat conversation logs that may or may not have been altered, claiming they received a private message or email that said such and such but not having the actual text, forcing developers or admins to in game logs and then rampantly disagreeing etc. if everything is on the forum post by post there is never any doubt about who said what and people can see all sides of the issue and decide for themselves. To take this recent case Musical professor "claimed" he was joking and did not believe his remarks were offensive, and there could have been the potential for this situation to devolve into a "Oh yes they were", "Oh no they weren't" type of affair, that is one reason why I am glad Nightshade did not mind Nocturnus posting the contents of the offensive email, because even though the initial post was deleted in this case, there is enough of a record of Musical Professor's behaviour to hopefully justify why we went to such extreme lengths here. Accountability is also a two edged sword, since as members can see the potential behaviour and why it got a warning when the warnings are public, also members can see the action moderators take and the reasons why they are taken, and heck question them if they wish (it's what we have a site and forum feedback area for), after all how often have we heard cases of "the moderator of so and so has banned me and I don't know why and nobody can contact them!" Hopefully this makes us more trustworthy, since after all at the end of the day we are people just like anyone else on the forum who just happen to have taken on the job of trying to keep this the safe and welcoming place it is, not absolute monarchs passing down decrees to the stupid peasants from atop their castles; we have enough of those in the world already). Indeed it is precisely for said reasons of accountability that I am writing explanation right now.The second more practical reason is that by posting public warnings we can be absolutely %100 sure that the warnings have been seen and understood by the offender, which is not the case were we to use pms or even email. Lastly, while I wouldn't say we try to "shame" people into behaving themselves, I have noticed, particularly in cases where a thread has gone a bit tonto, that official public warnings, or even just comments with the Moderation tag are helpful in putting on the breaks and getting people to stop and think about what they're doing, which often avoids more serious unpleasantness further down the line. As Nocturnus said in post 3, usually in a situation like this one, most reasonable people would've just taken the initial warning, responded with a mild apology and then moved on. Hope that all makes sense. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346480#p346480 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum @bookrageRegarding your thoughts about conducting stuff like this in private versus publicly, besides being more transparent, it's also possible that if people know they might get publicly shamed for such bad behavior, maybe it will act as a deterrent and keep the problem from being worse than it is. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346461#p346461 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-08
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : bookrage via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum I'm with you and a couple things I have to say.1. I think what he wrote was remarkably offensive and terrible and we shouldn't have to put up with this crap, any of us so I understand why he was banned.2. I'm more a fan of doing these sorts of things privately, so even though he is no longer here, not sure how I feel about the reasons and text musical-professor wrote being shown publicly. It has the plus of transparency but also is somewhat a breech of privacy, which I'm sure should be respected even for those behaving badly who are no longer part of the community.3. It never fails to sadden me that people can behave this way online. After seeing it so much I guess I Shouldn't be surprised, but it still hits me hard that there are people who act so reprehensibly.Just my thoughts on the subject. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346454#p346454 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-08
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : pauliyobo via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum I actually didn't understand a quarter of what he was saying. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346452#p346452 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum The only place I ever ran across him was in the topic about A Dark Room updates. He kept going on about how games without sounds aren't games worth playing and so on. I got the impression that the way he was ranting that he would eventually go down this road. Never the less, it's sad to see it when it actually happens. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346446#p346446 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-08
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : braille0109 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum LOOOL. just look at the guy's grammar. writing is power, as I always say. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346439#p346439 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum And Needless to say, his message to myself and the other moderators concerning his ban is anything but pretty. I will be disregarding any email from him in the future and seeing if windows 10 mail has a blocked senders list, and I would suggest others especially the moderators do the same. His message to me was as follows: musical professor wrote:well if i'm band hen everyone should because like i said before,it ain't cool that i have to be warned and when i've been there i've heard pointless things goin on with people and nothing is dun about it. and dark i do find it rather interesting. the verry person who said something to me and afended me and didn't lack of better wording, not give a damn, grows afensive of a joke. while it was a joke and i didn't think it would afend u, atleast i can say that with is alot more then u gave me once. because u are an admin, everyone kisses up to u. sorry i'm not that person. you're not always right yourself but i guess its different. and yes i responded back in hateful anger because i'm tired of favortisum. u can do pointless rambles and make remarks that can be quite afensive at times. trust me i'm a victim of it and thats all fine but if something is said back to u, then u and everyone thinks yall are god. and whats worse, you're banning people from ware if it wasn't for us that are disabled, there wouldn't be a sight to begain with. i am sure you ain't paying for it are u? but i'm baned. but i shouldn't think someone like yourself would get afended. so thats how it is?u always had some issue with me anyway but its cool cause the feelen ain't that much different hear. i deal with those to the best of my abilities even if i down right hate them. but i'm baned. well i guess u gotta control something when u have nothing. piece. but i'm tired of having to close my feelens of being afended or listening to people go at it and u nore anyone else, says one word but u belly ache at a joke. or u say something at me to think its ok but then if one is defending themselves then they are wrong for it. when everyone is paying for this sight or if this sight is on some server you're paying for then should u have rights to tell one ware they can and can't be. but its cool? i got u. but as the term goes, payback's, a bitch. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346430#p346430 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-07
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Yeesh... URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346411#p346411 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-07
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Well, the original message that started all of this nonsense was a message directed at Dark on one of the topics he created concerning an adult sexual oriented game. Musical professor decided it would be funny to start making suggestive talk about how Dark was not getting enough loving of the physical kind, as it were, from his wife, which was turning him into the Bill Clinton of ag net. At this point, because Dark wasn't exactly flattered by the verbal nonsense he took it to the moderation panel and asked one of us to look into the matter to see where we might stand on it. Because both Nightshade and I are married, we thought we'd look into it personally given the similarity of things and such. I was royally pissed off, to put it as lightly as I can; Nightshade was calm and collective about it and sent him a message that simply stated he was being warned for his rudeness and that we were seriously just trying to keep things as civil as possible. His response, is below:hey Nightshade, did u also pay attention to the message and its completion? or did u just assume from the message i was being disrespectful. i'm guessing the second choice because if u had paid anything at all, u would have heard me also say joking of corse. i was smiling the whole time. u all act as if i made a threat out there or something. i don't believe it. i've heard people putting others down quite often out there and u don't say shit. but when i make a joke u acuse me and give me a warning? what the fuck is this, provation periods? i've heard things that i generally would have been band for but yall say nothing but when someone says something to a mod or what not, yall fall over yallselves like they are some true person who got shot down in yalls fam or something. even i suspect even he would have possiblely said something like "lol musical professor." do u not know the difference from seriousness or joke? now there was a time when all do respect dark had said something that afended me but guess who was look at for defending himself? me. now however, i can't even joke with out yall looking at it wrong. seriously, get the fuck off my dick for crying out loud and go fuck someone else who is actually causing some bullshit on the sight instead of making somehting out of nothing. i know how the rules are? and i said nothing as some dis at him but i am pist at u all but accusing me. if u are gona aim at me, aim at me right. real fuckin talk cause i ain't down with that shit. i know what i said, i know the joke behind it and i even proved it so. don't control me just because yall wana do favortisum or because u all don't have nothing goin on in yalls lives. sorry for the bluntness of that but i show more respect then most i've known out there at times so get it right. thanks for the warning but let me go in to a room and cll him or some other out there name etc then u can say, i'm doing something wrong. piece. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346396#p346396 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-07
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum Well, the original message that started all of this nonsense was a message directed at Dark on one of the topics he created concerning an adult sexual oriented game. Musical professor decided it would be funny to start making suggestive talk about how Dark was not getting enough loving of the physical kind, as it were, from his wife, which was turning him into the Bill Clinton of ag net. At this point, because Dark wasn't exactly flattered by the verbal nonsense he took it to the moderation panel and asked one of us to look into the matter to see where we might stand on it. Because both Nightshade and I are married, we thought we'd look into it personally given the similarity of things and such. I was royally pissed off, to put it as lightly as I can; Nightshade was calm and collective about it and sent him a message that simply stated he was being warned for his rudness and that we were seriously just trying to keep things as civil as possible. His response, is below:hey Nightshade, did u also pay attention to the message and its completion? or did u just assume from the message i was being disrespectful. i'm guessing the second choice because if u had paid anything at all, u would have heard me also say joking of corse. i was smiling the whole time. u all act as if i made a threat out there or something. i don't believe it. i've heard people putting others down quite often out there and u don't say shit. but when i make a joke u acuse me and give me a warning? what the fuck is this, provation periods? i've heard things that i generally would have been band for but yall say nothing but when someone says something to a mod or what not, yall fall over yallselves like they are some true person who got shot down in yalls fam or something. even i suspect even he would have possiblely said something like "lol musical professor." do u not know the difference from seriousness or joke? now there was a time when all do respect dark had said something that afended me but guess who was look at for defending himself? me. now however, i can't even joke with out yall looking at it wrong. seriously, get the fuck off my dick for crying out loud and go fuck someone else who is actually causing some bullshit on the sight instead of making somehting out of nothing. i know how the rules are? and i said nothing as some dis at him but i am pist at u all but accusing me. if u are gona aim at me, aim at me right. real fuckin talk cause i ain't down with that shit. i know what i said, i know the joke behind it and i even proved it so. don't control me just because yall wana do favortisum or because u all don't have nothing goin on in yalls lives. sorry for the bluntness of that but i show more respect then most i've known out there at times so get it right. thanks for the warning but let me go in to a room and cll him or some other out there name etc then u can say, i'm doing something wrong. piece. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346396#p346396 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-07
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum I haven't had any interaction with this user. I would like to see the email though, just for reference, if the mods can reach an agreement on it.I have seen a few of their posts, but they must have been unremarkable, because I don't remember anything about them other than the name ringing a bell. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346380#p346380 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum
2018-01-07
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Announcement, musical professor banned from the forum While I am fully aware Nightshade can speak for herself and probably will should it come to that, I fully believe I'm right in saying she would have no issue with the offensive email being displayed, given she, much like myself is an open book with nothing to hide, and also, that the email she wrote was a civil warning from a moderator to a forumite, the resulting offensive email being something she herself didn't write. I think the truth is that for the most part we're all sad that it went down this way given it honestly didn't have to. had he bothered to reply nicely and simply state that it was a joke in calm and respectful tones with perhaps some hint of an apology none of this ever would have happened. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346376#p346376 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
