I think I'll go for the audition route and buy them elsewhere. The 700s
are way out of my budget - which is about £400. I may take my current
speakers along so I can get an idea of their sound in the demo room,
then listen to a range.
I'm going to go for floorstanders, even though I have good
Pat Farrell;179027 Wrote:
agentsmith wrote:
Also, a clean track like Dire Straits Love Over Gold would be
very
nice
I'm not a great fan of using Dire Straits for critical comparison. The
tunes are good, and the recording is excellent, but their music has a
lot of distortion in
Craig;178940 Wrote:
Can you tell where it changes from mp3 to uncompressed and back?
I'll play:
starts as MP3
changes to FLAC at 0:25
changes to MP3 at 0:45
changes to FLAC at 1:14
changes to MP3 at 2:27
changes to FLAC at 4:00
changes to MP3 at 4:54
changes to FLAC at 5:59
--
cliveb
agentsmith;179051 Wrote:
Agreed in gerneral, but Love Over Gold is sort of an exception. It is
quite acoustic and used to be commonly used as a demo disc. Agreed
with classical piano. MP3 usually makes solo piano sounds grossly
distorted with sibilance. Glenn Gould's 1982 Goldberg
Pat Farrell;179027 Wrote:
agentsmith wrote:
Also, a clean track like Dire Straits Love Over Gold would be
very
nice
I'm not a great fan of using Dire Straits for critical comparison. The
tunes are good, and the recording is excellent, but their music has a
lot of distortion in
totoro;179007 Wrote:
Occam--
I apologize for the tone of my response. It was intemperate, at best.
However, my basic point, IMHO, is valid. Regardless of _whose_ argument
you were dismissing, you were doing so by implicitly claiming that it
was an instance of a known logical
I am going to test a Lavry DA10 but my amp does not have XLR inputs,
only RCA. Any problems using a converter ( if there is such a thing ?
) or will it not affect the sound in any way ?
Cheers
--
thingfish
thingfish's
thingfish;179059 Wrote:
I am going to test a Lavry DA10 but my amp does not have XLR inputs,
only RCA. Any problems using a converter ( if there is such a thing ?
) or will it not affect the sound in any way ?
Cheers
No problem.
Instead of a converter you can use a cable that has an XLR
P Floding;179052 Wrote:
I think the older records, such as On Every Street sound much better.
Love Over Gold sounds very hifi IMHO. I did prefer Love Over Gold
though on my earlier systems. It's impressive for demoing.
On Every Street (1991) is much later than Love Over Gold (1982).
As it
jhm731;179005 Wrote:
Has anyone else tried this PSU and gotten different results?
Had you bothered to read the thread before posting in it, you'd know
the answer is yes.
I'm very skeptical about this claim that some people have extraordinary
hearing abilities, either through nature or
cliveb;179063 Wrote:
On Every Street (1991) is much later than Love Over Gold (1982).
As it happens, Love Over Gold was recorded on 2 analogue tape at 30ips
without Dolby, so it ought to be ideal audiophile fodder.
OK. Didn't realize.
I do remember that the Love Over Gold CD was the first
opaqueice;179066 Wrote:
Had you bothered to read the thread before posting in it, you'd know the
answer is yes.
I'm very skeptical about this claim that some people have extraordinary
hearing abilities, either through nature or nurture. Why don't you guys
with the superhearing try
There's a better way to do this sort of test, although I don't know a
way to use the SB rather than a sound card - download the ABXY plugin
for foobar. Then just convert a FLAC to mp3 and AB the two. The
plugin runs a nice blind test; you can see immediatly what you can hear
and what you can't.
opaqueice;179071 Wrote:
There's a better way to do this sort of test, although I don't know a
way to use the SB rather than a sound card - download the ABXY plugin
for foobar. Then just convert a FLAC to mp3 and AB the two. The
plugin runs a nice blind test; you can see immediatly what you
Hmmm... so golden ears are good for hearing linear versus switching
power supplies, but not for detecting distortion? That's odd. I guess
people with golden ears don't care much about fidelity in music
reproduction, then.
By the way, there's lots of research on how much better people get at
opaqueice;179074 Wrote:
Hmmm... so golden ears are good for hearing linear versus switching
power supplies, but not for detecting distortion? That's odd. I guess
people with golden ears don't care much about fidelity in music
reproduction, then.
By the way, there's lots of research on
opaqueice;179076 Wrote:
What, exactly, is the problem with this approach? The OP just asked
if we can tell the difference between 128 kbs MP3 and FLAC. If you
can't, you can't, but there's no problem. Obviously high bitrate MP3
sounds good; sufficiently high bitrates are indistinguishable
P Floding;179077 Wrote:
So you can distinguish 128 kbps mp3 from 16/44?
Where is the bitrate limit when it sounds perfect? Does it start to
sound perfect, or does it happen suddenly at a certain bitrate? Is
there a sliding scale, or is it the same for everyone, you reckon?
I haven't
opaqueice;179085 Wrote:
but I'd be surprised if anyone can tell, say, 256 or 320 kbs MP3 from
lossless, on a normal musical selection.
I have no idea what you consider a normal musical selection but I
have compared high bitrate mp3's to FLAC and WAV and the difference is
obvious. Sure, for
GaryB;179017 Wrote:
All of my dearly held world assumptions are crumbling.
Totoro is lecturing people on civility???
Occam is being held up as a model of temperate response and Philnyc is
now the impolite one?
Next thing you'll tell me is that the Pope isn't Polish.
---Gary
or make one
XLR pins 13(linked) too Outer of RCA (-)
XLR pin 2 too Inner of RCA (+)
--
Speed
Speed's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7311
View this thread:
No offense, but have you tried that blind? It's very easy - just
download foobar2000 and the ABXY plugin. Subjective impressions of
these things are simply not reliable - try it and you'll see for
yourself.
Anyway, it may be possible to distinguish on a good system - I
conducted my tests using
It's *no* problem at all to hear the difference on a good system - all
high frequencies are gone in a 128kbit MP3. That's if you can hear high
frequencies...
On a computer with standard computer speakers you have to listen for
artifacts introduced by the encoding, but that's as already mentioned
thingfish wrote:
I am going to test a Lavry DA10 but my amp does not have XLR inputs,
only RCA. Any problems using a converter ( if there is such a thing ?
) or will it not affect the sound in any way ?
Go to any large guitar/music store. Guitar Center is one example.
They will have XLR to
Yesterday I had the chance to compare the Lite Dac-60, slightly modded
by the owner, to a modded Transporter (no idea what the mods are). To
my surprise I couldn't hear a difference between them! We were
switching back and forth, the dac fed by the digital out of the
Transporter, and it sounded
Craig;178940 Wrote:
I've taken a wav of Sky Blue by Peter Gabriel, made a copy and
converted the copy to a 128k mp3. Then I've compiled the two versions
back into a complete song.
What did you use to join the two files?
For some reason Audacity has been rebooting my PC when I open a
jmourik;179108 Wrote:
Yesterday I had the chance to compare the Lite Dac-60, slightly modded
by the owner, to a modded Transporter (no idea what the mods are). To
my surprise I couldn't hear a difference between them! We were
switching back and forth, the dac fed by the digital out of the
totoro;179092 Wrote:
To pull an occam, I think some people need to read the Harry Frankfurter
book On Bullshit.
He makes the distinction that bullshit has no relation to the truth,
whereas lies at least contradict it. We're pretty clearly in bullshit
territory here, IMHO.
Dear Michael
Skunk;179112 Wrote:
I.e. you can't use the Transporter to show how something is it's equal
:-)
Should be a fair comparison of the DAC part, or not?
We did listen to the sb3 + dac60, but no direct comparison. I thought
through the sb3 it sounded a bit more edgy, but then again, when we
first
jmourik;179116 Wrote:
Should be a fair comparison of the DAC part, or not?
In all honesty it should have been an advantage to the Transporter,
since it's DAC is internal, and the LiTe has to go through S-PDIF.
Someone here looking to get a LiTe probably has an Sb3 already though,
so it
opaqueice;177833 Wrote:
But blind testing is actually a lot more useful than a voltmeter,
because it tells us what we really want to know - whether we can hear a
difference. In your rather perfect example, blind testing would be a
very natural thing to discuss - one would want to ask, is
opaqueice;179085 Wrote:
I haven't experimented that much because I don't see any good reason not
to use lossless files for the SB. I did play with 192 VBR when I was
deciding which format to use with my ipod and found it hard to
distinguish from FLAC (so that's what I decided to use). My
Skunk;179109 Wrote:
What did you use to join the two files?
I use Steinberg Wavelab 6 for all my audio editing.
Craig
--
Craig
MC2Slim - Windows Shell and J River Media Center Integration for
Squeezebox.
http://www.duff-zapp.co.uk
tomjtx;179127 Wrote:
Do you have a chance to compare the modded TP to a stock TP?
No, unfortunately we didn't have a stock TP.
crooner;179129 Wrote:
Yesterday I got a couple of NOS Amperex JAN 7308 white label tubes (1966
vintage) and tried them on the DAC.
So where do you buy tubes? Are
hirsch;179123 Wrote:
You have a difference. You don't know if the difference is due to
physical or psychological influences. DBT can help rule out
psychological influence. You've run DBT. Congratulations! Your
difference is likely not due to psychological influence.
Correct.
hirsch;179123 Wrote:
If you hear a difference, and can go back and measure a difference in
the stimuli, why bother with DBT? It's not a necessary control at that
point. You've got a measurable difference, and you can hear it. Done.
That's just obviously false. The fact that there is a
P Floding;179126 Wrote:
It's pointless to compare one lossless bitrate to another as they might
just be equally bad. (Or, at least, if you can't hear a difference
between them, it proves nothing about higher bitrates or lossless.) I
had no problem at all hearing a difference between 224kbit
GaryB;179017 Wrote:
All of my dearly held world assumptions are crumbling.
Totoro is lecturing people on civility???
Occam is being held up as a model of temperate response and Philnyc is
now the impolite one?
Next thing you'll tell me is that the Pope isn't Polish.
---Gary
chobbney;179049 Wrote:
I think I'll go for the audition route and buy them elsewhere.
You should treat dealers with a little more respect, I think. Try
being up-front with them - say that your budget is tight, and ask them
to help. Most would understand, be happy to give you a quick demo and
I rip with AudioGrabber at 8x and then encode to FLAC with Flac
Frontend.
http://www.audiograbber.com-us.net/
http://members.home.nl/w.speek/flac.htm
I then add genre tags and fix any tag problems with MP3Tag.
http://www.mp3tag.de/en/
Works well for me.
--
Codmate
325xi;178950 Wrote:
Again those anti-cables... Regardless of how they sound, why would
people pay so much for a plain magnet cable? Google for info before you
buy 'em.
I imagine they make less profit than Transparent, Audioquest, Nordost,
Monster... They sell a terminated, packaged product
occam;179158 Wrote:
Gary - I'd like to thank you for that capstone to a truly wonderful
day.(my son just recieved fully funded admission to both the Berkley
and Chicago grad schools in math) Your post had me laughing so hard I
actually fell off my chair.
Congrats to him - what kind of
ted_b;177643 Wrote:
I still can't get the 24/96 hideftapetransfer.com flac demo files
(Daphnis, Berlioz, Soldat) to play on my SB3. They are showing s 96k
on foobar, but just play as static on the SB3 (and cause me to reboot
the SB3 or all else is static before I do that). I assumed it
occam;179158 Wrote:
Gary - I'd like to thank you for that capstone to a truly wonderful
day.(my son just recieved fully funded admission to both the Berkley
and Chicago grad schools in math) Your post had me laughing so hard I
actually fell off my chair.
Phil - Give me a call and we can
GaryB;179113 Wrote:
Dear Michael aka Tortoro,
First of all, may I suggest you work on your sense of humor. A quick
google search came up with the following quote from Donald Rumsfeld of
all people: Keep your sense of humor. As General Joe Stillwell said,
The higher a monkey climbs, the
opaqueice;179157 Wrote:
Try it blind. It will take you less time than writing that post did.
And I'm not saying you won't be able to hear a difference - you might -
but it's amazing how afraid people seem to be that they might not. It's
not as if someone's going to come and take away your
opaqueice;179066 Wrote:
Had you bothered to read the thread before posting in it, you'd know the
answer is yes.
Sorry, I missed j.wales'd comments on the Globe Tek linear supply:
The difference, again in my opinion and my wife's is the enhancements
to the soundstage, placement of
totoro;179178 Wrote:
Got me on the humor, clearly. Need to work on that.
As to the bullshit point, see my last post. The cloth ears
argument _truly_ qualifies as bullshit, whether you like it or not.
As to my repeated cant of bullshit: I've used the term twice in my
history on this
opaqueice;179162 Wrote:
Just out of curiousity, have you ever compared two DACs with the same
source and heard a difference?
I have, but only when one was distorting due to an impedence mismatch.
When both DACs are reasonably well designed and functioning properly,
volume matched, and
P Floding;179182 Wrote:
I got a bit of a cold at the moment, so I don't think I hear as well as
I normally do. But according to you this is impossible? I imagine deaf
people will be delighted to find out they actually hear just as well as
anyone else.
Sure, it's possible. But it's also
P Floding;179185 Wrote:
Did I do that?
I don't remember doing that.
I haven't said anything negative about the result, as it has nothing to
do with my results. Perhaps you are reading in things?
I'd say that anyone who can't hear any difference when modifying their
system should
mikeruss;178629 Wrote:
This is not a pay site (if you download you would have to buy the CD!!
;-)) http://thepiratebay.org then search for band or album *.flac for
exanple for U2 you would search for U2*.flac
Couple of real idiots running that site.
--
P Floding
No, I didn't ABX it. And
opaqueice;178993 Wrote:
But if you guys are going to claim that there are some people that have
some sort of magic golden ear ability to hear the effects of a linear
supply or ebony hockey pucks, while the rest of us mere mortals can't do
it, I'm going to have to call BS. Go try a blind
325xi;178950 Wrote:
Again those anti-cables... Regardless of how they sound, why would
people pay so much for a plain magnet cable? Google for info before you
buy 'em.
Out of curiosity is most magnet wire continuous cast and OFC?
I went with Blue Jeans Cables, after braiding my ChrisVH
totoro;179007 Wrote:
Occam's was civil and respectful. Your (and philnyc's) response seems
childish in comparison.
Are you referring to my question about whether the listener listened to
a lot of music? If so, why is that childish? I was trying to learn
more about the test subject, and
totoro;179092 Wrote:
But seriously, the if you did a (somewhat) controlled experiment and
your paticipant(s) didn't hear the results of (lambda x. tweak x), then
they must have cloth ears is so tired as to be a cliche. Occam seemed
to make a point of _not_ resorting to that. I was merely
opaqueice;179095 Wrote:
No offense, but have you tried that blind? It's very easy - just
download foobar2000 and the ABXY plugin. Subjective impressions of
these things are simply not reliable - try it and you'll see for
yourself.
Anyway, it may be possible to distinguish on a good
So it's just a coincidence that this line of argument gets brought up
so commonly when tests don't show a difference?
Do you think opaqueice would have bothered if he thought his gf had
poor perceptual abilities? That seems to be the implication of what
you're saying.
As to the incivility:
totoro;179204 Wrote:
So it's just a coincidence that this line of argument gets brought up
so commonly when tests don't show a difference?
It wasn't an argument. It was a question. Just like people ask was
it a double-blind test? when someone reports hearing a difference.
Do you think
I was actually thinking of _my own_ incivility in that last post, not
yours! :)
--
totoro
squeezebox 3 - mccormack dna .5 - audio physic tempo 4
totoro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5935
View
totoro;179208 Wrote:
I was actually thinking of _my own_ incivility in that last post, not
yours! :)
Bullshit. ;-)
--
PhilNYC
Sonic Spirits Inc.
http://www.sonicspirits.com
PhilNYC's Profile:
mikeruss;178629 Wrote:
This is not a pay site (if you download you would have to buy the CD!!
;-)) http://thepiratebay.org then search for band or album *.flac for
exanple for U2 you would search for U2*.flac
Alternatively, you could just go to the mall and shoplift the album
like all the
Skunk;179198 Wrote:
Out of curiosity is most magnet wire continuous cast and OFC?
I went with Blue Jeans Cables, after braiding my ChrisVH recipes a foot
too short, so I'd have enough length to experiment with speaker
placement. Also, I tend to believe Roger Russell, but still don't
SatoriGFX;179203 Wrote:
I know all about the placebo effect and DBT etc... I have had many
experiences where I should have heard a positive difference (placebo
effect according to naysayers) but did not. I have bought newer, more
expensive products in an attempt to improve the sound only
Skunk;179213 Wrote:
Alternatively, you could just go to the mall and shoplift the album like
all the other juvenile delinquents (and troubled celebrities).
Those guys at Piratebay makes me ashamed to be Swedish. Thieving
bastards held up as ideal by the equally dumb socialist-destroyed
I'm not sure I follow all this, but I wasn't offended by Phil's
question, so no apology is necessary for my part.
I do share the sense that every time there's a negative result people
grasp wildly for reasons, but that's just human nature - and in the
case of Phil's post (which unlike another
opaqueice;179232 Wrote:
I'm not sure I follow all this, but I wasn't offended by Phil's
question, so no apology is necessary for my part.
I do share the sense that every time there's a negative result people
grasp wildly for reasons, but that's just human nature - and in the
case of
I was actually asking Jan, since he has admitted he couldn't hear a
difference between two very very different DACs (the Lite DAC 60 has a
tubed output). That's consistent with listening tests, for example
those showing people can't distinguish between tube amps and solid
state or $10,000 CD
opaqueice;179235 Wrote:
It takes a lot more than that to offend me - my post above was supposed
to be funny :-).
Oh, sorry!
I didn't get it.. ;-)
BTW, are you, possibly, one of the ABX advocates mentioned over at
stevehoffman?
--
P Floding
No, I didn't ABX it. And I won't even if you ask
jmourik;179141 Wrote:
No, unfortunately we didn't have a stock TP.
So where do you buy tubes? Are they easy to replace?
jan
I've had bad/mixed luck with Ebay. Believe it or not, people will
actually try to take advantage of audiophiles.
The best luck I've had is at my local electronic
P Floding;179239 Wrote:
Oh, sorry!
I didn't get it.. ;-)
BTW, are you, possibly, one of the ABX advocates mentioned over at
stevehoffman?
No - never looked at it.
--
opaqueice
opaqueice's Profile:
325xi;179214 Wrote:
Am I missing anything?
I was asking if anti-cables are indeed the same as standard
alternator/magnet wire sold in stores, which is why I listed some of
the specs from the anti-cable site.
--
Skunk
Skunk;179264 Wrote:
I was asking if anti-cables are indeed the same as standard
alternator/magnet wire sold in stores, which is why I listed some of
the specs from the anti-cable site.
That's what many say. If I was interested to buy them now I'd go to the
store and check, but at this moment
opaqueice;179234 Wrote:
I was actually asking Jan, since he has admitted he couldn't hear a
difference between two very very different DACs (the Lite DAC 60 has a
tubed output).
I did hear a difference between an Arcam CD23 FMJ and the Transporter,
if that counts :-) But only in direct A/B
By the way, the Bolder SB2, and Modified Transporter are from me. I
brought them to the meeting. And of course I have listened to all of
them in my system.
Jan is talking about transporter feeding the Lite-DAC60 having the same
sound as the transporter analog out. I have never listened to this
By the way, the Bolder SB2, and Modified Transporter are from me. I
brought them to the meeting. And of course I have listened to all of
them in my system.
Jan is talking about transporter feeding the Lite-DAC60 having the same
sound as the transporter analog out. I have never listened to this
Veggen;179174 Wrote:
Strange, these files both play and sound great on my SB3.
Sure you have your file types set up correctly?
I even converted one to 24/96 WAV (PCM) via foobar conversion and then
loaded it (with a new name of course) in my Slimserver library. It
plays the same static!!
I've spent so many weekends surfing Shonan beach I can't tell you (wave
surfing with a surf board, not internet). Great little spot about an
hour away from Tokyo. Sorry that this doesn't answer your question, but
I was pretty excited to see that radio station and the post.
Kook
--
ob_kook
opaqueice;179066 Wrote:
Had you bothered to read the thread before posting in it, you'd know the
answer is yes.
I'm very skeptical about this claim that some people have extraordinary
hearing abilities, either through nature or nurture. Why don't you guys
with the superhearing try
Veggen;179174 Wrote:
Strange, these files both play and sound great on my SB3.
Sure you have your file types set up correctly?
They play on my Squeezebox 3 at half speed although I am not on the
latest firmware.
I have resampled them to 24/48 and they play OK.
--
MrStan
opaqueice;179234 Wrote:
I was actually asking Jan, since he has admitted he couldn't hear a
difference between two very very different DACs (the Lite DAC 60 has a
tubed output). That's consistent with listening tests, for example
those showing people can't distinguish between tube amps and
opaqueice;179228 Wrote:
It seems to be a common misconception in these discussions that the
effects of psychology on preference, or hearing a difference versus
not, are predictable based on what you think your expectations are. In
other words people seem to think that when they buy
opaqueice;179095 Wrote:
No offense, but have you tried that blind? It's very easy - just
download foobar2000 and the ABXY plugin. Subjective impressions of
these things are simply not reliable - try it and you'll see for
yourself.
Anyway, it may be possible to distinguish on a good
P Floding;179053 Wrote:
The older Dire Straits albums sound surprisingly good on a very good
system Large, deep sound stage (real or not) and good dynamics (some
kick and crack in those drums).
I agree that there must be many much better recordings to use. I just
suggested something that
FYI:
http://cgi.ebay.com/50-Spool-of-12-AWG-Magnet-Wire-Turning-Winding_W0QQitemZ160077285738QQcmdZViewItem
Skunk wrote:
325xi;178950 Wrote:
Again those anti-cables... Regardless of how they sound, why would
people pay so much for a plain magnet cable? Google for info before you
buy 'em.
I'm the kind of audiophile who used to make mix tapes! I still have
hundreds of them. I also used to obsessively browse record stores--real
stores with real records, new or used, I didn't mind getting my hands
dusty.
Check out this great reminiscence someone sent me today:
95bcwh;179293 Wrote:
I have listened to the stock SB3 feeding the Lite-DAC60 compared with
the transporter analog out. In that instance, the transporter is of
course warmer, smoother, and goes deeper.
I wish we had compared this, I wanted to try it by hooking both up and
synchronizing them,
Michael Amster;179339 Wrote:
FYI:
http://cgi.ebay.com/50-Spool-of-12-AWG-Magnet-Wire-Turning-Winding_W0QQitemZ160077285738QQcmdZViewItem
Yes. 12-gauge wire is cheap and probably as good as the mega-buck
cables. I suggest reading Roger Russell's article:
jmourik;179343 Wrote:
I wish we had compared this, I wanted to try it by hooking both up and
synchronizing them, but we didn't have enough time to do that. So now I
still have two questions:
- how much difference does the TP make vs SB3 as a transport only
- how much difference is there
95bcwh;179372 Wrote:
If you said TP digital out + DAC60 is equal to TP Analog out, then
the different is very significant..Which is exactly what I said, that's how
we did the A/B comparison. TP
analog out into pre input 1, TP digital into dac60 into pre input 2.
Easy to switch back and
jmourik;179374 Wrote:
Which is exactly what I said, that's how we did the A/B comparison. TP
analog out into pre input 1, TP digital into dac60 into pre input 2.
Easy to switch back and forth. Not easy to hear a difference, well,
impossible for me :-)
jan
Perhaps I didn't emphasize one
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