Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On 26/03/2008, Sean DALY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In my humble opinion the hard part is not tracking what is served; > there is a request to a server after all. Tracking use beyond initial > download is much harder. An imposed structure wouldn't work I don't > think, nobody want to be spied

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

In my humble opinion the hard part is not tracking what is served; there is a request to a server after all. Tracking use beyond initial download is much harder. An imposed structure wouldn't work I don't think, nobody want to be spied on. But perhaps viewers could be induced to share that informat

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On 26/03/2008, Tom Loosemore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I tell you, there's a big pot of money awaiting someone who develops a > trusted-enough tracker for usage of online video (a big recruited > online panel running background tracking software might even do...) > > after all, it can hardly b

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On 26/03/2008, Rob Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Tom Loosemore wrote: > > I tell you, there's a big pot of money awaiting someone who develops a > > trusted-enough tracker for usage of online video (a big recruited > > online panel running background tracking software might even do...) > > *

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On 26/03/2008, Tim Dobson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Brian Butterworth wrote: > however it is important to recognise that the demography of people > who > > watch reality TV, are almost certainly *not* the same as those who > grab > > tv content (from what ever source) on their com

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

Tim Dobson wrote: Media players don't all have a function which sends a unique ID to server. Hash the file or check the first 256 bytes. Or check the filename or url. Or the metadata. Tracking files doesn't require a clever system, just an intrusive one. - Rob. - Sent via the backstage.bbc

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

Tom Loosemore wrote: I tell you, there's a big pot of money awaiting someone who develops a trusted-enough tracker for usage of online video (a big recruited online panel running background tracking software might even do...) *cough* data protection *cough*. ;-) - Rob. - Sent via the backstage

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

I agree. I would also go further. forget the trial. Put together the same iPlayer idea, but totally open, with an opt-in for new product that the rights holders want on the net. By working with newcomers. accepted that still editorial control would be under the BBC. then the mo

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

Brian Butterworth wrote: however it is important to recognise that the demography of people who watch reality TV, are almost certainly *not* the same as those who grab tv content (from what ever source) on their computer. I presume you can justify this claim. I can't recall a dem

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

Tom Loosemore wrote: Peter Bazelgette (ex-boss of Endymol) came out against DRM in a speech to the Convergence Think Tank last week - he wants to allow and encourages peopel to share TV, but be able to track who watches things so revenue can be shared appropriately blah blah I heard Ashley High

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

I tell you, there's a big pot of money awaiting someone who develops a trusted-enough tracker for usage of online video (a big recruited online panel running background tracking software might even do...) after all, it can hardly be *less* reliable than BARB, let alone RAJAR... On 26/03/2008, Sea

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

I'm glad to hear this. It would certainly would be worth a trail. As I said before, I would much perfer BBC money going to British people who work on the programmes (in PACT-companies and at the BBC too) than being spent on Microsoft and DRM. If the BBC published live stats about the viewing of

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

I had some background discussions with PACT while preparing my interview with Ashley and what I learned (unsurprisingly) is that rights holders want to be compensated; the actual method is up for discussion. They hear that DRM doesn't work or is ineffective, but they don't see an alternative. Pooli

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

Peter Bazelgette (ex-boss of Endymol) came out against DRM in a speech to the Convergence Think Tank last week - he wants to allow and encourages peopel to share TV, but be able to track who watches things so revenue can be shared appropriately blah blah In short, I think the light is beginning to

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

I spoke to John Wittingdale MP at the MGEITF last year ( http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051282 ) and he gave me the distinct impression that MPs have been convinced that DRM will protect the jobs He seemed quite open to the argument that it might be a CULTURAL imperative (as in "na

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On 24/03/2008, Tim Dobson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Andy wrote: > > On 20/03/2008, hayfielddigitalparish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> it looks like a CBC are now going to put DRM-free BitTorrent > distribution > >> for a major prime-time show > > it turns out to be reality TV they are tor

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 00:03 +, Fearghas McKay wrote: > On 24 Mar 2008, at 23:07, Richard Smedley wrote: > > I think HHGTTG was the last, wasn't it? > Nope that was Radio :-) :-) > Well I didn't find the TV as amusing, but then maybe I am being a tad > old & crusty ;-) Well, if we're spea

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On 24 Mar 2008, at 23:07, Richard Smedley wrote: I think HHGTTG was the last, wasn't it? Nope that was Radio :-) Well I didn't find the TV as amusing, but then maybe I am being a tad old & crusty ;-) f - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please v

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On Mon, 2008-03-24 at 22:11 +, Tim Dobson wrote: > Michael wrote: > > I thought it was utter tripe myself. Tried so hard it was unfunny. But then > > humour is incredibly subjective. > > What mainstream tv with a tech edge, do you find funny? I think HHGTTG was the last, wasn't it? - Rich

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

Michael wrote: I thought it was utter tripe myself. Tried so hard it was unfunny. But then humour is incredibly subjective. What mainstream tv with a tech edge, do you find funny? /me goes back to watching google tech talks -- www.blog.tdobson.net If each of us have one object, and we ex

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On Monday 24 March 2008 17:51:38 Tim Dobson wrote: > Example: Channel 4 released the frist two episodes of The IT Crowd, on > it's website, without DRM. Instantly turning it into a classic: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_IT_Crowd#Broadcasting I thought it was utter tripe myself. Tried so hard

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

Andy wrote: On 20/03/2008, hayfielddigitalparish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: it looks like a CBC are now going to put DRM-free BitTorrent distribution for a major prime-time show it turns out to be reality TV they are torrenting Now apart from the age old question about why anyone would want

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 11:43 AM, Brian Butterworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > On 21/03/2008, Richard Lockwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > And of course there are places (such as libraries and schools) that > actually > > > have the right to retain copies as long as they want,

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On 21/03/2008, Richard Lockwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > And of course there are places (such as libraries and schools) that > actually > > have the right to retain copies as long as they want, and the BBC is, > > perhaps illegally, preventing this! > > Just playing Devil's Advocaat for

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

> > And of course there are places (such as libraries and schools) that actually > have the right to retain copies as long as they want, and the BBC is, > perhaps illegally, preventing this! Just playing Devil's Advocaat for a moment, while schools and colleges have the right to retain copies, is

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On 20/03/2008, Dave Crossland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 18/03/2008, Nick Reynolds-FM&T <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > People may be interested in this blog post from Ashley: > > > > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2008/03/bbc_iplayer_on_iphone_upd > > ate_1.html > > "As some comme

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On 18/03/2008, Nick Reynolds-FM&T <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > People may be interested in this blog post from Ashley: > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2008/03/bbc_iplayer_on_iphone_upd > ate_1.html "As some commentators have pointed out, the reason the volume of iPlayer hacks is this

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

I wonder if the F1 nonsense will be DRM free on iPlayer? On 20/03/2008 14:41, "Andy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 20/03/2008, hayfielddigitalparish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> it looks like a CBC are now going to put DRM-free BitTorrent distribution >> for a major prime-time show > > Fre

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On 20/03/2008, hayfielddigitalparish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > it looks like a CBC are now going to put DRM-free BitTorrent distribution > for a major prime-time show Free, no DRM media distributed over an open protocol globally, media as it should be. Now why didn't the BBC do this if CBC c

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

From a Canadian colleague it looks like a CBC are now going to put DRM-free BitTorrent distribution for a major prime-time show see the post http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9897923-7.html?tag=nefd.lede Phil

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

More here.. http://www.betanews.com/article/DRM_is_added_to_Flash_with_new_rights_management_server/1205935789 On 19/03/2008, Sean DALY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The --limit-rate parameter of curl is often used to simulate low or > variable bandwidth, e.g.: > > curl --limit-rate 128 > > >

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

The --limit-rate parameter of curl is often used to simulate low or variable bandwidth, e.g.: curl --limit-rate 128 On the subject of DRM, Adobe has just announced their DRM server availability: http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200803/031908FMRMS.html Bizarrely, the ser

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On 18/03/2008, Iain Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > *maybe*, but considering the interface only lets you view video if > you're viewing from a wifi connection and not the phone's data > connection (just a javascript check) then the only difference is, as > suggested Quicktime limiting itsel

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 7:46 PM, Andy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 18/03/2008, Alan Pope <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > If I was trying to detect this stuff I'd be looking for people with > abnormal > > behaviour such as clients that grab an html page and then the mp4 without > > grabbing

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On 18/03/2008, Alan Pope <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If I was trying to detect this stuff I'd be looking for people with abnormal > behaviour such as clients that grab an html page and then the mp4 without > grabbing any other collateral such as style sheets, images and so on. May flag people u

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 05:46:57PM +, Ian Partridge wrote: > On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 5:06 PM, Iain Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > FTA: > > "In fact, more than most: the vast majority. Something like just one > > twentieth of one percent have accessed a BBC iPlayer programme via a > >

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 5:06 PM, Iain Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > FTA: > "In fact, more than most: the vast majority. Something like just one > twentieth of one percent have accessed a BBC iPlayer programme via a > hack." > > The whole point about the recent update is that the server

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Nick Reynolds-FM&T <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > People may be interested in this blog post from Ashley: > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2008/03/bbc_iplayer_on_iphone_upd > ate_1.html > > FTA: "In fact, more than most: the vast majority. Something like

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

blogs/bbcinternet/2008/03/bbc_iplayer_on_iphone_upd > ate_1.html > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Iain Wallace > Sent: 18 March 2008 12:59 > To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk > Subject: Re: [backstage] iPlayer

RE: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

Could you send me the link to the right post please. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Dobson Sent: 18 March 2008 15:41 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over? Nick cheers for the link please do you

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On 18 Mar 2008, at 12:58, Iain Wallace wrote: However it was made very clear from the start that the only thing that those discussing iPlayer couldn't do was try to break any protections on the content. That's what is causing the problems on the list and the only thing on the wiki that is co

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

9 > To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk > Subject: Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over? > > On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 11:58 AM, Steve Jolly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Iain Wallace wrote: > > > Aside from the Big Lebowski reference: What? > > > > I believe it

RE: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over? On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 11:58 AM, Steve Jolly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Iain Wallace wrote: > > Aside from the Big Lebowski reference: What? > > I believe it's an analogy. I got that it was an analogy, thank you. I do

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 11:58 AM, Steve Jolly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Iain Wallace wrote: > > Aside from the Big Lebowski reference: What? > > I believe it's an analogy. I got that it was an analogy, thank you. I don't really understand what the point of it was. I was invited onto this lis

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

Quoting Steve Jolly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Iain Wallace wrote: Aside from the Big Lebowski reference: What? I believe it's an analogy. To what? :-) - Rob. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On 18 Mar 2008, at 09:15, Iain Wallace wrote: As you wish: http://beebhack.bluwiki.com/ I think I entirely misunderstood what the point of this mailing list was. I was encouraged to come here to discuss running the iPlayer on exotic platforms but now we're actually doing it it seems it's a tabo

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

Iain Wallace wrote: Aside from the Big Lebowski reference: What? I believe it's an analogy. S - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.co

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On 18/03/2008, Iain Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'm a BBC senior manager; but posting personally as a fan of Backstage. Intersting assertion. Makes me think > > It puts us (those that care about Backstage) in a really difficult position > > if it's used to share information on ways

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

> Two scenarios: > > Scenario 1: > > Guy knocks on your door, walks in past you, urinates on your best rug on > the floor, then hands you a note saying your house smells of piss and walks > out. > > Scenario 2: > > Guy knocks on your door, walks in past you, hands you a note saying go > this w

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On 18/03/2008, Iain Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I'm a BBC senior manager; but posting personally as a fan of Backstage. > > > > It puts us (those that care about Backstage) in a really difficult > position > > if it's used to share information on ways to get around > content-restrictio

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

To play devils advocate: I don't think it's the politics. From what I understand through recent discussions on and off list, it's more to do with (as always) keeping rights' holders happy. I think that the actual BBC staff would love to hear the various hacks that people here come up with (be prepa

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

> I'm a BBC senior manager; but posting personally as a fan of Backstage. > > It puts us (those that care about Backstage) in a really difficult position > if it's used to share information on ways to get around content-restrictions > on a BBC service. > > I don't want to see the end of the Backsta

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

James Cridland wrote: It puts us (those that care about Backstage) in a really difficult position if it's used to share information on ways to get around content-restrictions on a BBC service. Please don't. Anywhere else. Just not here. Like BBC News? :) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/techn

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

Hmmm Alan I take your point, but let me put it another way: the BBC could negotiate a specific Real build with less obtrusive tracking and advertising, a specific Miro build with smart playlist and branded interface, even offer a specific VLC build for exotic codecs such as Ogg Dirac (which are usu

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

Not heard of full disclosure yet James? Vijay. On 14/03/2008, James Cridland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 9:41 PM, Iain Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > You basically have to send the exact same headers that an iPhone does, > > along with the BBC-UID. Fortunately

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On 14 Mar 2008, at 11:13, James Cridland wrote: I don't want to see the end of the Backstage unmoderated mailing list. Posting this type of information threatens its future. Posting this kind of information is what Backstage is *and should be* all about. Nobody here is advocating copyrig

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On 14/03/2008, Tom Loosemore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > cos the start was in 2003/4, at which point in time the world looked > > > very different to both the BBC and to rights holders > > > > > > Really? The world looked the same to me then, except that the other > > media industries

RE: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

>From Sean's email... [snip] There is precedent: the BBC managed to convince Real to make a BBC-specific player, after all. [/snip] The RealPlayer build that the BBC distributes was changed by Real to match our policies regarding personal data and advertising, and not the codecs that were contain

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

If I may comment about the Groklaw interview, since I know a thing or two about it. We had been in contact with the BBC press service for some time prior to Tim's comment, but we were of course pleased when the interview was arranged, no doubt due to the uproar following the unfortunate Linux comm

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

> But the BS about the biggest market first is... well, true. You must > serve your biggest audience first, but that's not at the exclusion of > others. The point is that the biggest market, PCs running Windows, is captive to a monopolist which chooses not to support open standards such as MPEG-4

RE: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

Quoting Thomas Leitch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: I think it's a great, positive step forwards that content can be delivered to a device like the iPhone. If the content was available unencumbered the iPhone would never have been prevented from seeing it. If just iPhone users no longer being preve

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

Tom Loosemore wrote: Why would he agree to talk to groklaw about DRM if that wasn't his intention? It's not like him saying no to their interview request would have been hard... and rights holders do know how to share links... You will find if you spider the backstage blog etc that I actually s

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 1:11 PM, Matthew Somerville <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > James Cridland wrote: > > It puts us (those that care about Backstage) in a really difficult > > position if it's used to share information on ways to get around > > content-restrictions on a BBC service. > > > > Pl

RE: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

> > Like BBC News? :) > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6944830.stm > "The tool can be used to strip DRM from programmes with the > BBC iPlayer." > > So it's okay for BBC journalists to share information, on a > BBC service itself, on how to get around content > restrictions; left

RE: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

Indicative of BBC /management/. Erm. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dom Ramsey Sent: 14 March 2008 12:50 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over? On 14 Mar 2008, at 11:13, James Cridland wrote: >

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 11:13 AM, James Cridland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm a BBC senior manager; but posting personally as a fan of Backstage. > > It puts us (those that care about Backstage) in a really difficult position > if it's used to share information on ways to get around content-res

RE: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

Oh come on ! This is 100% flame bait. None of those things are being advocated. We have gone around the loop so many times having these same tired old arguments trotted out, over and over again. I just think it's time to move the debate forwards. I think it's a great, positive step forwards th

RE: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On so many levels, that's incredibly bizarre and effete. > Hello. > > I'm a BBC senior manager; but posting personally as a fan of Backstage. > > It puts us (those that care about Backstage) in a really difficult position > if it's used to share information on ways to get around content-restric

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On 14/03/2008, James Cridland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm a BBC senior manager; but posting personally as a fan of Backstage. I thought I recognised the name. > It puts us (those that care about Backstage) in a really difficult position > if it's used to share information on ways to get aro

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

> > You basically have to send the exact same headers that an iPhone does, > > along with the BBC-UID. Fortunately someone emailed me a plain-text > > log of successful requests sniffed from his iPhone. > > I've used curl instead of wget this time as it gives you finer > > granularity of control ov

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On 14/03/2008, Matthew Somerville <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Section 296ZA is about circumvention of technological measures, and uses the > phrase "effective technological measures", where "technological measures" > are any technology, device or component which is designed, in the normal >

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 9:41 PM, Iain Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You basically have to send the exact same headers that an iPhone does, > along with the BBC-UID. Fortunately someone emailed me a plain-text > log of successful requests sniffed from his iPhone. > I've used curl instead of

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

> > We only have the BBC's word that the content providers have forced > > them to develop iPlayer this way. > > There is a built-in detection mechanism. We can ask the content producers. Or just read the evidence they gave to MP's as part of the All Party Internet Group's inquiry into DRM "PA

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

Unsure, I am not sure they are breaking the law. The BBC is a public body and their are tight restrictions on what it can and can't do. Thus it is more likely it is committing an offence under the law. wrt content producers we should be less concerned with the law and more concerned with the in

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 4:03 PM, Thomas Leitch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Pay £££ for a license to freely distributre individual bits of content. > Spend many months > dealing with each different holder of those rights... you've probably guessed > that there isn't one > mammoth, single "ri

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On 13/03/2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Maybe everyone should just keep quiet and play along with this DRM charade? That would be an awful idea; the whole point of the free software movement is to be able to live an upright and honest life. The only solution is for the po

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

--- Dave Crossland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 13/03/2008, Tom Loosemore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > I'll post my letter to the MP who brought it up > tomorrow :-) > > > > MP's don't generally respond to letters from > non-constituents. > > As long as he reads it, that's okay. >

RE: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 13 March 2008 14:25 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over? Maybe the BBC is only paying lip-service to the notion of DRM knowing that any

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

Tom Loosemore wrote: I'll post my letter to the MP who brought it up tomorrow :-) MP's don't generally respond to letters from non-constituents. I was at downing street last december with load of MPs, and from what i understood, although they dont like talking to non-constituents, they will

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

Ian Forrester wrote: Remember we're in it for the long run... not the short hike. I wonder if you could try and find out why the bbc allows drm free media on iphone but not my gobuntu laptop? surely this doesnt make sense. cheers Tim - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To u

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On 13 Mar 2008, at 20:03, Dave Crossland wrote: MP's don't generally respond to letters from non-constituents. As long as he reads it, that's okay. He probably won't even see it - his office won't pass it on to him as you are not a constituent. f - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

> > cos the start was in 2003/4, at which point in time the world looked > > very different to both the BBC and to rights holders > > > Really? The world looked the same to me then, except that the other > media industries were yet to adondon DRM. as you say, in 2003/4 rights holders in other

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

Dave Crossland wrote: 296-1-b-ii: "(1) This section applies where (b) a person knowing or having reason to believe that it will be used to make infringing copies publishes information intended to enable or assist persons to remove or circumvent the technical device." So that user agent sniffing

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

thank you Iain - you just won me a bet, with nearly two and half hours to spare... On 13/03/2008, Iain Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Well, I now have a working download script for the updated MP4 over > HTTP service. Anyone else been playing with this this evening? Far too > many messages

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On 13/03/2008, vijay chopra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > First there is no such thing as the "EUCD law", all EU member states > interpret and implement EU directives how they want. Sure, forgive my informal shorthand, IANAL :-) There is strictly speaking no "EUCD law" - but the implementations are

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On 13/03/2008, Iain Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The only way the BBC could keep media over HTTP and not have trivial > scripts download files from them is to put some kind of user > authentication system into the iPlayer. They should do it anyway and > tie it to a valid TV license.

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On 13/03/2008, Tom Loosemore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > In time it'll be able to go back to rights holders and say "look, > > > piracy has not gone through the roof since we launched non-DRM > > > versions of iPlayer, meanwhile usage has gone through the roof (10x > > > increase),

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

There's a Ruby based script as well, does the exact same thing as my PHP one: http://po-ru.com/diary/bbc-iplayer-fix-hacked-again/ linked from http://www.flickr.com/photos/twindx/2316284105/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.c

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

> > In time it'll be able to go back to rights holders and say "look, > > piracy has not gone through the roof since we launched non-DRM > > versions of iPlayer, meanwhile usage has gone through the roof (10x > > increase), we're fighting a losing battle on the iPhone - this is an > > arm

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

Look we've got a 1337 h4xs0r capable of pWning the BBC on the list; somebody arrest that man ;p Sorry, but the way this story has been covered by the mainstream media (see the other thread), anyone would think you're master black-hat cracker. And we all know hackers are bad people... Vijay. On

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On 13/03/2008, Thomas Leitch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > So in effect the BBC are giving a competitive edge to two > > commercial entities > > Adobe. Microsoft. Apple. > ... > Get real. Here is something real: > > Hello, > > > > My business partners and I are currently working on a > > Linux-b

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

Well, I now have a working download script for the updated MP4 over HTTP service. Anyone else been playing with this this evening? Far too many messages to this thread for me to keep up with. You basically have to send the exact same headers that an iPhone does, along with the BBC-UID. Fortunately

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

> > > I'll post my letter to the MP who brought it up tomorrow :-) > > > > MP's don't generally respond to letters from non-constituents. > > > As long as he reads it, that's okay. he won't read it - you'll get a polite form letter back from his secretary (which may or may not be his wife/mothe

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

First there is no such thing as the "EUCD law", all EU member states interpret and implement EU directives how they want. I believe that the UK implementation of the EU copyright directive is The Copyright and related rights regulations 2003

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On 13/03/2008, Tom Loosemore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I'll post my letter to the MP who brought it up tomorrow :-) > > MP's don't generally respond to letters from non-constituents. As long as he reads it, that's okay. If anyone is in John Pugh's area, please do hit up http://www.theywor

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On 13/03/2008, Steve Jolly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dave Crossland wrote: > > When the BBC limits the MP4 stream to Apple hardware devices, it is > > implementing DRM > > Sorry, not convinced. IANAL of course, but personally I don't see how > the concept of restricting access to a particula

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

Hi Tom! Great to see you posting here :-) On 13/03/2008, Tom Loosemore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I can't help but feel a bit sorry for the BBC here. Rock and hard > place. It's just removed DRM from the last two iPlayer releases (90% > of iPlayer users do not suffer from DRM) Do you thin

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

Dave Crossland wrote: When the BBC limits the MP4 stream to Apple hardware devices, it is implementing DRM Sorry, not convinced. IANAL of course, but personally I don't see how the concept of restricting access to a particular client implies the concept of preventing copying. S - Sent via

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On Thursday 13 March 2008 16:46:10 Thomas Leitch wrote: > Wrong. It is locked. Wrong. In the case of "content selection by user agent string" there is precedent. It is probably also valid in the case of "figleaf 'protection' by user agent detection". Reverse engineering for the purpose of crea

Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?

On 13/03/2008, Andy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 13/03/2008, Phil Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > i.e. have you found a BBC programme you'd like to watch which includes > the property of a > > third-party and written to that third party petitioning them to re-think > their stance o

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