it by dowsing.
Cheers Tony R
NZ DownUnder
On a different tack - I have some compost tea brewing - yes! aerated tea
just like the experts tell us to do. Only in my old rectangular milk vat
with paddle stirrer and sump pump recirculating the brew for aeration. I
am
struck by how absurdly simple
- Original Message -
From: Rambler Flowers LTD [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: Three-Up Tour compost tea brew
Hi Lloyd I have made a small 50Litre brewer made from an old stainless
steel LPG cylinder with a couple of air
- Original Message -
From: Lloyd Charles [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 2:24 PM
would use the brix meter on crop.
Hi Lloyd I have been testing my brews for pH, ergs, brix and temp.
As I spray in the evenings I have not done a leaf brix test,I
compost tea brewing - yes! aerated tea
just like the experts tell us to do. Only in my old rectangular milk vat
with paddle stirrer and sump pump recirculating the brew for aeration. I am
struck by how absurdly simple it is to do now that I have got the basic
principle figured out and have got away from
We had really nice fall broccoli in our garden with the use of compost
tea made from our BD compost, both in 5 gallon buckets for a couple of
weeks without aeration with an aquarium aerator for 24 hours and a tsp.
of molasses added. It's especially valuable to us because since we only
get 1/2 gal
Also stated by York is that even bd is not an answer in and of itself for a
system as complex as a monoculture as an overhybridized vineyard. Premium
viticulture and great farming practices are part and parcel. The tea is
poo-pooed by Brinton because he did not raise it to the level it has
Also stated by York is that even bd is not an answer in and of itself for a
system as complex as a monoculture as an overhybridized vineyard.
The tea is poo pooed by Brinton because he says that other, less
expensive, less labor consuming methods will produce the same
results. Will published
In a message dated 2/9/03 9:50:43 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
What about you, Steve? Have you gotten much follow up?
-Allan
I offered Marc Chien to do a practical work day rigging and inoculating a
brewer with stirring and applying some bd remedies. Your November conf
should include
You're listed as a speaker at the Nov 14 conference We can put that
as your topic, if you'd like. each speaker is getting from 3-4 hours
to make their case.
The time does not have to be contiguous, however.
http://www.gardeningforthefuture.com/biodyn and push the banner
I offered Marc Chien
In a message dated 2/4/03 12:43:40 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Compost tea has been used
by BD farmers for a long time and no one bothered to get all technical
about feeding the culture. Allan's explanation was very good; we just don't
yet know if brewed compost tea is needed
It's a new model of small compost tea maker by Bob Norsen from Alaska.
He doesn't have a web site, but his large model 30-500 gallons is
recommended by The Soil Food Web soilfoodweb.com and the results of
their testing is under Bob's Brews on their Compost Tea list/serve page
At 12:04 PM 2/4/2003 -0500, Merla wrote:
This is my year for my own BC
500 AND for 24 hr aerobic compost tea.
Exactly in what proportion do you combine them?
Allan's post answered your questions very well. Compost tea has been used
by BD farmers for a long time and no one bothered to get all
:28 AM
Subject: Re: COMPOST TEA was Re: Perry's recnt posts
I'll just put this out here for comment: Alan York and Will Brinton
both state that they have never seen or heard of claims of crops
reliably produced (this means year after year, something that
excludes many variables
Is there no level or no amount of S that is not "gross"?
There are times that we apply 3 pounds per acre of dusting sulfur to beautiful hillside vines that have been certified organic for 15 years.
Its only on occasion, not even every year. These vines produce grapes that are very high quality,
preps, not
biodynamics.
GA
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 7:37
AM
Subject: Re: COMPOST TEA was Re: Perry's
recnt posts
Is there no level or no amount of S that is not
"gross"?There
GA, it is interesting what you have...what variety of table grapes do you raise?
Bob
I'm sure one of the reasons Alan York has never seen anyone radionics is
that I have never heard of anyone on the North Coast of California
(Napa, Sonoma, Mendocino) who is even playing with radionics. If there
is any here using radionics, they are keeping pretty quiet.
And sulfer is a way of
Peter,
Am curious if you use a degree day model for knowing when the PM pressure is greatest.
Also, do you have good mineral balance in the soil and in the vine?
Having good levels of soil/vine calcium, boron, zinc and phosphate (in addition to others) has been a very, very important part of
Allan,
Your question, "Do you know of anyone using compost tea and failing to
control powdery mildew?" lacks a critical component to be of most use.
How about taking into account the rest of the farm plan. In other words, if you are using compost tea to manage PM, is it the only manag
Neither Alan nor myself have seen much from radionics.
There are significant use of radionics in N. California and I work on jobs where its use has been very well practiced.
Maybe its me...I just cant find results...to date. Looking for the wrong thing? Maybe.
Bob
PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 11:32
AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: COMPOST TEA was
Re: Perry's recnt postsPeter, Am curious if you
use a degree day model for knowing when the PM pressure is
greatest.Also, do you have good mineral balance
Allan,
Your question, Do you know of anyone using compost tea and failing to
control powdery mildew? lacks a critical component to be of most use.
Bob -
I think you are asking a different question than I'm asking right
now. Using compost tea and failing to control disease is not a
damnation
- York is not an old guard BD person. He put 'dynamics' way
behind good farming practice and knowledge of the crops being grown.
I have no doubt that if he had seen an application of
effective radionics that he wouldn't be applying it to all of his
accounts.
My apologies to Mr York! I guess
My apologies to Mr York! I guess too that I need reminding occassionally
that radionics only works well in the hands of a skilled and talented
operator, there are'nt many around, count em on your fingers probably in
your country as well as here!
Lloyd - I can't do justice to this because I do
PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: COMPOST TEA was Re: Perry's recnt posts
My apologies to Mr York! I guess too that I need reminding
occassionally
that radionics only works well in the hands of a skilled and talented
operator, there are'nt many around, count em on your fingers probably
in
your country as well
Is there a way to download Alan York's talk so that I can listen to it
without interruption?
What's the interruption? Please explain. Thanks
Physical tapes may become available from Penn State, but the
organizer implied that he was in no hurry to dupe them.
Let me know what you need to make
Allan Balliett wrote: I'll just put this out here for comment: Alan York
and Will Brinton both
state that they have never seen or heard of claims of crops reliably
produced (this means year after year, something that excludes many
variables: repeatability) through the use of radionics, except by
'Bd farms'' that still spray Sulphur or copper still have problems. I
understand Mr Yorks vineyards still use these gross methods. WHat are they
covering up and can grapes be grown with out them?
Yes we have done it for several years - in a plastic house
Glenn.
Thanks for posting.
I think
Those of us involved, can tell so many stories of positive results,
it is with wonderment that we read this sort of statement. Is it
possible that York/ Brinton made their judgement on the work of some
dabbler who is not properly trained?
Gil - This wasn't a call to judgement. It was a simple
My statement concerning the power lines in Hugh's published photo was to
refer to an image that I assume many on the list, if they are serious
about non chemical agriculture, would subscribe to Acres and be familiar
with that photo. The photo is related to Radionic Broadcast, not trees,
cattle
of good basic soil remineralisation,
stimulation of microbial activity, and energetics is whats needed for best
results, BD or radionics (energetics) without the minerals is a struggle,
likewise a mineralised soil low in energy, microbial stimulation (compost
tea etc) without attending to basic
Hmmm crops reliably produced -year after year I certainly would'nt
make that claim for radionics(on its own), nor would I support it for
biodynamics(on its own), it certainly does not happen in conventional
agriculture, no one way is reliable when taken in isolation, and isolation
is the
Allan
Would double embryo wheat and barley be good enough evidence to support the
worth of radionics. It took one of Arden Andersen's best clients 20
generations (10 years)
to do this out in Washington state with wheat and foliar fertilisation dont
know whether they used radionics or not and its
Maybe Brinton and York dont want to see a result - after all radionic and
homoepathic use of the BD preps has not been flavour of the month with old
guard BD people. Its usually difficult to see something that you have
decided not to look for.
Lloyd - York is not an old guard BD person. He put
Blame this one on me, folks, but one of the most astounding upshots
of this week's conference was the chance to meet with experienced
growers who have worked with compost tea and who have found teas to
be much less effective than we have heard people proclaim them to be.
Alan York asks people
Alan,
thanks for this post, I find it very interesting. I have been interested in
compost teas for some time and have played with a brewer of my own creation.
When Will Brinton said,
good compost tea has all the microbiology a person needs for controlling
foliar disease - WITHOUT BREWING
good compost tea has all the microbiology a person needs for controlling
foliar disease - WITHOUT BREWING IT other than we do already.
does this meaning stirring or just letting compost soak in water?
This is a 'typo,' buddy. Will was saying that good BARREL COMPOST
(BC) has everything we
Allan,
did Will say what kinds of studies or testing ?
thanks,
daniel
- Original Message -
From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: COMPOST TEA was Re: Perry's recnt posts
good compost tea has all
Allan,
did Will say what kinds of studies or testing ?
thanks,
daniel
will operates Woods End Lab, one of the oldest soil and microbiology
labs in the country. Apparently he has published research on this
topic in BIODYNAMICS. I'm searching for the article and will let you
know more about
Its
just a shame though that these stories, just like mine, of achieving frost
tolerance in wheat via high brix, are anecdotal and dont count!! (sorry
Laura and Bill I believe you just like you would probably believe my brix
thing)
Lloyd et al - For the purposes of AY's request, it's fine if
that
'just stirred' BC makes very good a very good foliar application and
did publish an article on this in Biodynamics.
I hope this is helpful -Allan
good compost tea has all the microbiology a person needs for controlling
foliar disease - WITHOUT BREWING IT other than we do already.
does
, but the 5 gal system is
around 25$US.
Perry
I'm
trying to get him to help me make a homemade compost tea machine and he thinks
he already knows everythingabout it without listening to me. I love
him! Best, Merla
computer?). There are some
machines that cost under 100 $US, but the 5 gal system is around
25$US. Perry
I'm trying to get him to help me make a homemade compost
tea machine and he thinks he already knows everything
about it without listening to me. I love him! Best
In a message dated 1/15/03 7:38:35 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Does this mean anything to you? This is not static work. It is not
only work that is being refined but it is also work in which,
perhaps, problems have been detected and corrections offered.
(e-coli) this is an evolving work.
was
alluded to in another conversation that populations shift on a 28 day lunar
cycle, affected by cosmic events...sstorch
Thanks, SS, for this important post.
I am also hearing from people who test regularly that either the
populations vary greatly with the same inputs -or- something
- Original Message -
From: Frank Teuton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] Compost Tea and Organics
Dear Dr Benbrook:
I appreciate the tone of your post
- Original Message -
From: Chuck Benbrook [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 10:23 AM
Subject: [SANET-MG] Compost Tea and Organics
I have learned much from the ongoing dialogue re compost and
compost
tea safety and thank the technical
Title: FW: [SANET-MG] NOSB minutes on Compost Tea (From JP)
Let's clarify the different kinds of compost tea that you might be concerned with, and ones that you don't need to be concerned with. If I forget a category, or you see the need to split a category, please chime in -
First, if you
resource.
-Chris
-Original Message-
From: Liz Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 12:29 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Compost Tea List/tomatoes
on 29/8/02 8:40 AM, Roger Pye at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Trem, Chris wrote:
Will try Charles Wilber's
on 29/8/02 8:40 AM, Roger Pye at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Trem, Chris wrote:
Will try Charles Wilber's method of growing tomatoes next year, my cages
won't be more than 8 feet tall though.
I came across an idea in an Australian magazine (Grass Roots, I think)
for growing tomatoes.
biodynamic management to achieve the level of health
through the bd soil and atmosphere that you are apparently taking for
granted at your place right now.
In the meantime, it's very helpful to many of us to have access to
non-intrusive, pro-diversity biological tools like compost tea to
keep
In a message dated 8/28/02 6:30:25 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Just the same, I'm very, very, VERY interested in hearing from you
what a person could be doing wrong in SEED BED PREPARATION, PLANTING,
SOWING, or CULTIVATION that would promote fungal diseases.
Well, for instance we had a
that the Great Storch has
hit obstacles in his efforts to grow the Great Pumpkin, if only to
demonstrate that BD growers are heir to the same problems that can plague
everyone else. I salute his candor in 'fessin' up.
If Allan and Elaine are right about compost tea, regular apps of compost tea
could have
about her theories, especially when they are expressed
through her mouth, but I am not yet satisfied with their performance
in practice. I am VERY aware, however, that any short comings I have
with compost tea could be explained by previously un-noted problems I
have will delivering spray. I'm
Thanks Steve and Frank for your excellent examples of the sort of
food production experience that should be being shared more and more
on this list. -Allan
I wanted to do lots in the garden this fall winter but the wife wants to get all the
house renovations done as soon as possible, so...
Trem, Chris wrote:
Will try Charles Wilber's method of growing tomatoes next year, my cages won't be
more than 8 feet tall though.
I came across an idea in an Australian magazine (Grass Roots, I think)
for growing tomatoes. Materials needed are six empty 20 litre (5 gallon)
drums (like the
In a message dated 8/26/02 2:24:02 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
It makes me think that there must be ANOTHER CT list somewhere, one
that I'm not subscribed to!
I think bdnow has the most cutting edge compost tea happenen. If you are
using bd compost and barrel compost no one can make
I think bdnow has the most cutting edge compost tea happenen. If you are
using bd compost and barrel compost no one can make better tea than
that.sstorch
Steve -
Neither of the above are appropriate to use for foliar disease
control. Compost tea, made with BD Composst and Barrel Compost
I have been thru all Yahoo Groups and could not
find the new Compost Tea List.
Can someone give me the exact address ?
Thank You
jose
In a message dated 8/27/02 6:39:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Neither of the above are appropriate to use for foliar disease
control
If you are managing these dis-eases during growing season you must admit to
yourself that you have done something wrong in the seed bed preparation,
Jose,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Merla
Jose Luiz M Garcia wrote:
I have been thru all Yahoo Groups and could not
find the new Compost Tea List.
Can someone give me the exact address ?
Thank You
jose
Allan asks What's with the compost tea list?
It moved from Ibiblio.org to YahooGroups.
This seems like a simple matter, but it is actually
quite a change that is less user-friendly and
functional.
Ibiblio email lists, which include Permaculture, are true
listserv-style email lists
Allan asks What's with the compost tea list?
Points well taken, Steven Diver.
What concerns me, however, is the hurdy-gurdy nature of the compost
tea list and the general lack of content.
It makes me think that there must be ANOTHER CT list somewhere, one
that I'm not subscribed to!
(Yes
, unless I
wanted to disappear (electronically speaking). The drop in speed and quality
has been marked and I for one still miss the much more advanced and far
quicker system we had before the take over.
Gil
Steve Diver wrote:
Allan asks What's with the compost tea list?
It moved from Ibiblio.org
- Original Message -
From: Steve Diver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 3:06 AM
Subject: Re: Compost Tea List
Allan asks What's with the compost tea list?
Instead of enhancing and facilitating the flow of information,
we are constrained
Yeah Allen, it is refreshing to be able to wash your hands and sit and easily
contact likeminded folk. Makes you feel so not alone in the world
here...SStorch
What's with the compost tea list?
It seemed like it was going to be the be-all and end-all of
sustainable organic agriculture. Instead its this very unsatisfying
hurdy-gurdy. Nothing flows.
Worse, Elaine is virtually totally absent (of course, she's probably
been lost in OZ recently)
My
Another ACRES reprint at
http://www.acresusa.com/toolbox/reprints/composttea_feb01.pdf, this
one by Mary Howell-Martens provides a great overview of the brewing
and use of compost tea
-Allan
Steve - I don't want to nit-pick, but I wonder how the vortices in my
flowform cascade are not peripheral ? The flowforms are thin plastic shells
and, inside each one, the liquid flows around the outer edge in twin
vortices before joining in chaotic discharge into the next flowform beneath.
That
Excellent article.
Thanks for the contribution.
I love you all
Jose
- Another ACRES reprint at
http://www.acresusa.com/toolbox/reprints/composttea_feb01.pdf, this
one by Mary Howell-Martens provides a great overview of the brewing
and use of compost tea
-Allan
There is a big difference between the Steiner remedies and compost tea. The
truth is, that I have restored our farm with cold well or rain water. I can
count on one hand how many times I have used warm water. Rudy sez that you
may want to use warm water, not mandatory, for those who plung
Instead of stirring, I run water plus prep (for spraying or compost heap,
not to make tea) through a cascade of flowforms for about 10 mins. Do I win
both ways or get the booby prize ? Tony N-S.
Steve and all-- I see on page 68 of her Gardening for
Life book that Maria Thun recommends against using
dynamized water that has been through the flow forms
for use in mixing the preparations.
Do you know why she recommended this? Does this apply
to making compost tea? Is the point
In a message dated 5/5/02 9:01:49 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Steve and all-- I see on page 68 of her Gardening for
Life book that Maria Thun recommends against using
dynamized water that has been through the flow forms
for use in mixing the preparations.
I have been using well water
Friends -
My recollection is that Steiner recommends WARM WATER for stirring
the preps. This has always been a curiosity to me, a guy who likes to
dip his water from the rainbarrel.
The folks at Earthworks, the folks whom, I understand, are hitting
the highest numbers for ALL THE MICROBES
Steve and all-- I see on page 68 of her Gardening for
Life book that Maria Thun recommends against using
dynamized water that has been through the flow forms
for use in mixing the preparations.
Just guessing, I'd assume that dynamized water had already
'imprinted' with someting else just as
Gil--
I'm not a biologist but I don't fully understand the cases you described.
We have had two serious cases of bacterial poisoning that has been traced
back to
Organic growers.
The first concerned orange juice made from a mixture of organic and
conventional
fruit. Many people were poisoned
Hi! Dave,
I understand that in each case it was salmonella. I do not understand how the build
up came about. My information came from a talk by a BD/ Organic Inspector, who was
pointing out that Organic is not necessarily healthy. His message was one of the
need to practice care with matters such
I know there was some discussion of size of spray nozzle and pressure
when we had Elaine Ingham on here.
Will the regular spray nozzle that came with my 2 gallon garden sprayer
be okay for getting the little critters out without hurting them? I
mean, I know they're microscopic, but I'd like
I know there was some discussion of size of spray nozzle and
pressure when we had Elaine Ingham on here.
Will the regular spray nozzle that came with my 2 gallon garden
sprayer be okay for getting the little critters out without hurting
them? I mean, I know they're microscopic, but I'd like
Hi Dan -
Compost has more organic matter than compost tea, basically the
non-soluble types of organic matter that do not dissolve in water. Thus,
the benefit from compost is for a much longer time period than compost
tea, or nearly any other kind of amendment. John Buckerfield in
Australia
Dorothy wrote :
I would like to hear from Jose (or others) who have
built their own compost tea machines and gotten good
test results on the quality of the tea. I understand
that the design and ability to maintain an aerboic tea
makes a huge difference. Also, the tank should be
desgined so
I've passed this question to Elaine, but let's keep in mind that
Elaine is an expert in microbiology and not in biodynamics. She is
very open to biodynamics, can perceive that it does 'work' and is
interested in knowing more about it.
Please, everyone, do not take her statements about
://ncatark.uark.edu/~steved/compost-tea-notes.doc
This is a brand new update to the ATTRA publication from 1998. It
lists the equipment suppliers for compost tea brewers and their
websites; it provides a summary of Elaine Inghams' characteristics
for healthy soils, composts, and compost teas; it provides
Allan Balliett wrote:
What are some practical amendments and microbial stimulants for
tweaking the teas.
I've written a 75 page book about this, which you might want to
get. I hate to advertise myself, but just in case you are
interested, the book is:
The Compost Tea Brewing Manual, $25
better. Just as we have done for compost tea.
Elaine
How do you explain the success of potentised BD preps as fungal or pest
protection when they are firstly in 12% alcohol and diluted to 10X 30???
Whats doing it?
Glen Atkinson
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