Unjust, unwise, unAmerican
Jul 10th 2003
From The Economist print edition
America's plan to set up military commissions for the trials of
terrorist suspects is a big mistake
You are taken prisoner in Afghanistan, bound and gagged, flown to the
other side of the world and then imprisoned for
On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 05:34:23PM -0700, Gautam Mukunda wrote:
This is, of course, why Bush is going to win in a walk in 2004,
Prediction? What constitutes a walk? 55% of popular vote?
--
Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/
On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 10:33:27PM -0500, Robert Seeberger wrote:
From: Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Lots of lies. Of course, Bob, they were all on your side of the
political fence, but I won't hold that against you.
The expanses are quite broad on both sides of the fence.
The
Kevin Tarr wrote:
snip
The ipodway too much money. I know I'm complaining about this problem
a
lot, but spending $100 would seem like overkill right now.
Yeah, it is pricey. But on my commute home from Seoul to Osan, about 35
miles and taking anywhere from 60 to 90 minutes, music helps
Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 01:26:31PM -0700, Deborah Harrell wrote:
Wind Power : A commentary from Bill Hammack's public radio program You
can listen to this commentary at http://www.engineerguy.com
New turbines are so efficient that wind energy costs about the same as
coal, natural gas or
Erik Reuter wrote:
On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 10:33:27PM -0500, Robert Seeberger wrote:
From: Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Lots of lies. Of course, Bob, they were all on your side of the
political fence, but I won't hold that against you.
The expanses are quite broad on both
G. D. Akin wrote:
Kevin Tarr wrote:
snip
The ipodway too much money. I know I'm complaining about this problem
a
lot, but spending $100 would seem like overkill right now.
Yeah, it is pricey. But on my commute home from Seoul to Osan, about 35
miles and taking anywhere from 60
--- Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Or perhaps someone a little more inclined to agree
with Gautam could
point out that there *is* a condescending tone in
many posts addressed
to someone who disagrees with him, and that this
bothers that person and
is, frankly, off-putting, and
Gautam Mukunda wrote:
Well, I am sorry about that. This is an issue that is
striking a little close to the heart, though. There
is a pervasive dishonesty that has crept into this
issue where we have people actively crippling American
war efforts for short-term partisan advantage - and a
--- Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
The expanses are quite broad on both sides of the
fence.
They really don't seem to have been. The outcome of
the war was astonishingly one-sided, wasn't it? It
fit almost exactly into what a bunch of people (myself
least among them) who thought
--- David Hobby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What I believe? That things are usually not all
black or
white.
You know, David, that line seems most often deployed
as a way of suspending moral judgment. Some things
_are_ black and white, and saying that they aren't is
just an excuse for
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Gautam Mukunda
...
Well, I am sorry about that. This is an issue that is
striking a little close to the heart, though. There
is a pervasive dishonesty that has crept into this
issue where we have
--- David Hobby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
War efforts? What war efforts? There was a
quick
war which drove Hussein out of power. Now there is
an aimless
occupation. I imagine that I support continuing the
occupation
more than the Bush Administration does--the
impression I get
is
--- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm assuming that you're saying that questioning the
validity of the
administration's justification for the war is
crippling the war efforts. If
not, please clarify. Otherwise, on we go...
Well, if they were _genuine_ questions, then no, I
wouldn't
From: Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Seth Finkelstein on 16 words
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:34:23 -0700 (PDT)
big snip
It has now been about, oh, three months since
Saddam was overthrown.
There
is a pervasive dishonesty that has crept into this
issue where we have people actively crippling American
war efforts for short-term partisan advantage - and a
bunch of very bright people on the list who buy that
wholesale.Â
Oh, stop it. This is close to the Ann Coulter libel that
Erik, thanks for posting this.
Was pleasantly surprised to see The Economist take this position.
Jon
From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: BRIN-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Unjust, unwise, unAmerican
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 04:09:43 -0400
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Deborah Harrell wrote:
Couple of years ago at a party, some guy actually
asked me my sign...I managed not to laugh, but only
just, and womanfully refrained from snapping Off
Limits! ;-)
I thought that was old enough that it was
nostalgically quaint now.
--- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm assuming that you're saying that questioning the
validity of the
administration's justification for the war is
crippling the war efforts. If
not, please clarify. Otherwise, on we go...
Well, if they were _genuine_ questions, then no, I
wouldn't
--- Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Deborah Harrell wrote:
snip
I'm still a Cancer, according to the correct[ed]
astronomy
dates, but under the 'traditional' system it's
Cancer-cusp-Leo, which 'fits' my personality
better
than straight Cancer. Although perhaps a better
fit
--- Jon Gabriel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't have friends in Iraq. Why does that matter?
Gautam, what exactly
is the point you're trying to make with this last
sentence?
The point is to guard against the inevitable next
argument - that I don't care about the American
soldiers who are
--- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Unjust, unwise, unAmerican
Jul 10th 2003
From The Economist print edition
America's plan to set up military commissions for
the trials of terrorist suspects is a big mistake
snipped most
Mr Bush could have asked Congress to pass new
--- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Deborah Harrell wrote:
Wind Power : A commentary from Bill Hammack's
public radio program
New turbines are so efficient that wind energy
costs about the same as
coal, natural gas or nuclear.
This statement is oversimplifying the issue to a
At 10:32 PM 7/17/03 -0500, Julia Thompson wrote:
Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
At 05:43 PM 7/17/03 -0500, Julia Thompson wrote:
Gary Nunn wrote:
An image that definitively and clearly illustrates the difference
between men and women.
http://www.newpacifica.net/life.html
Could you
At 10:32 PM 7/17/03 -0500, Julia Thompson wrote:
Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
At 05:43 PM 7/17/03 -0500, Julia Thompson wrote:
Gary Nunn wrote:
An image that definitively and clearly illustrates the difference
between men and women.
http://www.newpacifica.net/life.html
Could you
Has anyone else read these articles defending Bush, by the *pro-Democrat*
Daily Howler?
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh071503.shtml
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh071603.shtml
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh071703.shtml
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh071803.shtml
My attempt to summarize their argument:
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Maybe it's just me, but Sunday's Doonesbury reminded
me of past list discussions.
http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/index.html?uc_full_date=20030713
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R2D961745
Or perhaps a current one... amused smile
If anyone ever
That's the name of a drill we use to sanity check
ideas. It's probably at the root of my frustration
over a lot of what's being discussed with regards to
Iraq.
What would you have to believe to believe that the
Bush Administration faked WMD evidence in order to
invade Iraq? In other words, what
I wrote:
I've always heard good things about Octavia Butler but have never gotten
around to reading anything she has written. Where's a good place to
start?
(As if my to read stack wasn't tall enough already ;-)
Julia replied:
I'll say _Wild Seed_. It's a stand-alone. Most of her other
Russell Chapman wrote:
I've never had a missing brick yet, and I've bought more used kits than
new. I've gotten a couple really really cheap because they were missing
instructions, but then I just download them and print them out at work...
We actually bought a set new at a store that turned out
Jon Gabriel wrote:
At 10:32 PM 7/17/03 -0500, Julia Thompson wrote:
Julia
28 weeks today, at *least* as big as she was at 39 weeks last time, and
the belly kinda overshadows everything else (makes even the butt look
small!)
Well, you are having twins. :)
It's good to
Julia wrote:
I believe that Dr. Seuss's _The Butter Battle Book_ does something
similar, in that there is a war between those who hold their bread
butter side up and those who hold their bread butter side down. Had
quite an arms race going there in that book.
On a related note... there's an email
From: Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Seth Finkelstein on 16 words
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 11:09:43 -0700 (PDT)
--- Jon Gabriel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't have friends in Iraq. Why does
Debbi wrote:
Debbi
who is *sure* that there are other
mathmatically-challenged SF fans out there (but if not
- Shhh! don't tell her! Let her enjoy her little
fantasy... :} )
I can almost always follow the general sense of the math, but when things
start to get into calculus... I got an A in my
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Gautam Mukunda
...
You would have to believe that they invaded Iraq
knowing that, after the country was defeated, it would
be revealed that there was nothing there.
No. It's not a Boolean. They could
Nuts as part of a healthy diet has been mentioned
before; now the FDA will allow some products to be
labeled as such:
http://my.webmd.com/content/Article/71/81253.htm?printing=true
This week the FDA approved the first qualified health
claim for almonds, hazelnuts, pecans, pistachios,
walnuts,
--- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Trick? How about intimidate, which doesn't require
any action, necessarily?
How many nations dare stand up to the only
superpower left? That's a danger
in being in that position. This is not about facts,
it's about politics,
which I have to
In a message dated 7/18/2003 2:34:25 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Officially, our troops and ships were on TWAT duty.
Jean-Louis
Must..resist...temptation..
Ronn?
William Taylor
-
Undaunted, un Blitzin, un Comet
On Fri, Jul 18, 2003 at 11:42:25AM -0700, Deborah Harrell wrote:
--- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Deborah Harrell wrote:
Wind Power : A commentary from Bill Hammack's public radio program
New turbines are so efficient that wind energy costs about the
same as coal, natural
On Fri, Jul 18, 2003 at 10:54:50AM -0700, Deborah Harrell wrote:
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Deborah Harrell wrote:
Couple of years ago at a party, some guy actually asked me my
sign...I managed not to laugh, but only just, and womanfully
refrained from snapping Off Limits! ;-)
I
On Fri, Jul 18, 2003 at 11:19:28AM -0700, Gautam Mukunda wrote:
Around there, if I had to guess, but at least 52%, and a pretty large
win in the Electoral College.
If I could win money off my predictions on Brin-L, well, I wouldn't be
working for a living, that's for sure, so what's one
At 05:57 PM 7/18/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 7/18/2003 2:34:25 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Officially, our troops and ships were on TWAT duty.
Jean-Louis
Must..resist...temptation..
Ronn?
I made the same decision . . .
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Watching BBC versus CNN or heaven forbid FOX
Funny, I was glued to the tube, hardly slept, watched all 3 and Fox was the
only channel not leading, feeding, makeing political statments as questions,
diging for dirt where there was none, inventing dirt out of
On Fri, Jul 18, 2003 at 10:47:02AM -0700, Deborah Harrell wrote:
Mmm, yes, I can run a survey and show that, say, ~ 70% of Americans
report having had at least one such experience; but there are
listmembers who seem to think that anything that cannot be measured by
instruments of some sort is
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Gautam Mukunda
...
Only to the extent that the possession of _any_ WMDs
by Iraq immediately makes the war fully legal under
international law. Any at all.
What does that have to do with whether or not
Were there scissors in Roma? I saw Gabrielle's hair
being cut in Xena's Episode _When Fates Collide_
Alberto Monteiro
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
- Original Message -
From: Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: Seth Finkelstein on 16 words
--- Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
The expanses are quite broad on both sides of the
In a message dated 7/18/2003 4:48:10 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Were there scissors in Roma? I saw Gabrielle's hair
being cut in Xena's Episode _When Fates Collide_
Alberto Monteiro
I would bet there were scissors in Egypt.
And yup
Unfortunately, your statement comes across as similar to those who
defended President Clinton after he talked about sex, except in this
case, a war resulted.
Except, the British still believe that the statement
was true.
Yes, they are saying that. But months ago, the US
--- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Deborah Harrell wrote:
snip
I think what he was trying to do was show why wind
can't supply a
large part of the US' energy needs, starting with
what *does* work, then giving the bad news.
I agree. But the problem is that his first major
claim was
--- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Deborah Harrell wrote:
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Deborah Harrell wrote:
Couple of years ago at a party, some guy
actually asked me my
sign...I managed not to laugh, but only just,
and womanfully
refrained from snapping Off Limits! ;-)
--- Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Officially, our troops and ships were on TWAT
duty.
Jean-Louis
Must..resist...temptation..
Ronn?
I made the same decision . . .
And I'm _so_ proud of you!
Such
Gautam Mukunda wrote:
So where do you get off claiming that politics must
stop? Is it then unpatriotic to criticize Bush, for
the next
few years of the occupation?
major snip--writing more does NOT mean you are right : )
As for what war - Al Qaeda and its various allies are
Gautam Mukunda wrote:
... I even
called the
US President Mr. Bush, which took great
forbearance.)
If it takes you great forbearance to display that
minimal amount of respect to the President in wartime,
then I'm not the one who needs to get some
perspective, David.
1) It is NOT
Robert Seeberger wrote:
Look at what is happening in Texas. Its all out in the open here. The
Republican party cares not a whit what the people of Texas think or what the
law states.
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/293
ARGH!
If the Republicans would just put
Deborah Harrell wrote:
But I'm gonna have to disagree with 'em about the
chocolate ice cream with nuts...ya got yer calcium,
yer chocolate, yer magnesium, AND yer
phytochemicals...
Chocolate Trail Mix Ice Cream Maru
(never seen any, but there oughta be! ;} )
Hm. I can't stand nuts in my
In a message dated 7/18/2003 7:22:06 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
And I'm _so_ proud of you!
Such restraint! Such self-control! ;)
virtual pats upon the back for both
Unfortunate Acronyms Maru :)
If Ronn gets butter, don't give me Parkay.
Working for
--- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You seem to have said that no one could honestly
question that, but
honestly, I do. I know how intelligence briefings
are supposed to be
prepared and reviewed before POTUS and his staff see
them, and the
administration's explanations are at odds
--- David Hobby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Since his actions are producing the conditions for
MORE terrorism rather than less, this is asking a
bit much.
THERE IS NO WAR ON TERROR. The United States has
fewer than
1 casualities, civilian and military, since
September 2001
or
In a message dated 7/18/2003 3:28:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Perhaps Bob should post a rant where he whines about how the
conservatives on the list are intolerant of liberals.
I have not the time or energy to answer Gautam rant. I will. In a preview, I dare him
In a message dated 7/18/2003 7:49:55 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Deborah Harrell wrote:
But I'm gonna have to disagree with 'em about the
chocolate ice cream with nuts...ya got yer calcium,
yer chocolate, yer magnesium, AND yer
phytochemicals...
In a message dated 7/18/2003 11:00:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
There
is a pervasive dishonesty that has crept into this
issue where we have people actively crippling American
war efforts for short-term partisan advantage - and a
bunch of very bright people on the
http://www.sacurrent.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=9854883BRD=2318PAG=461dep
t_id=484045rfi=6
BLINDED BY SCIENCE - FICTION
By Lisa Sorg 07/17/2003
San Antonio schoolteacher John Courage told the State Board of Education,
If we put Intelligent Design into our biology textbooksÂ…then we may
--- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Deborah Harrell wrote:
Mmm, yes, I can run a survey and show that, say, ~
70% of Americans
report having had at least one such experience;
but there are
listmembers who seem to think that anything that
cannot be measured by
instruments of some
for all I know the US would have seized on some
other pretext
to attack.)
Even if this were true, would that have been such a
bad thing?
It would not be a bad thing if the administration was honest about its intentions and
motives. It seems clear that the WMD arguement was
In a message dated 7/18/2003 11:55:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
It is unpatriotic to falsely attack the rationale for
the war when it is obvious to anyone who looks at the
facts that the Administration was telling the truth.
Period
But clearly not every one agrees
In a message dated 7/18/2003 1:09:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
I would say that it already has told plenty, actually.
The nuclear weapons plans _by themselves_ were a
gross violation of the UN sanctions.
The plans were a violations but the administration did not
Deborah Harrell
Or do you mean that the reports are truthful, in
that they accurately record people's experiences?
They accurately record what people *say* they have
experienced - at this juncture, *proof* of the
experience as something coming from an external source
rather than a
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
And I'm _so_ proud of you!
Such restraint! Such self-control! ;)
virtual pats upon the back for both
If Ronn gets butter, don't give me Parkay.
snip
ROTFLOL
wipes eyes
wipes orange juice off monitor screen
Belly-laughs are
On Fri, Jul 18, 2003 at 08:39:06PM -0700, Deborah Harrell wrote:
Perhaps I wasn't clear, but since no-one can get inside another's
mind, no-one can be sure they are experiencing the exact same numinous
event.
Yes, I know that. That is the problem and the point. Numinous experience
is all in
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
Behalf Of David Hobby
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 10:06 PM
To: Killer Bs Discussion
Subject: Re: Seth Finkelstein on 16 words
Gautam Mukunda wrote:
So where do you get off claiming that politics must
stop? Is it then
On Sat, Jul 19, 2003 at 09:33:04AM +0530, Ritu wrote:
Some two years ago, a couple of scientists in UK were trying to
get funding to carry on a research on the existence of the human
soul. I am not sure what happened to them but the paper they published
after the preliminary research did
Julia Thompson wrote:
snip
My iPod, set on random (and playing through my radio) gives me a
selection
from 4400 songs of which I like ALL of them. It is like my own radio
station. Well worth the money.
No commercials, as well. Or do you have that many commercials there?
(I like the
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:brin-l-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gautam
Mukunda
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 11:08 PM
To: Killer Bs Discussion
Subject: Re: Seth Finkelstein on 16 words
--- David Hobby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Since his actions are producing the conditions for
http://www.n2h2.com/products/categories.php
Now that the government has empowered censorship of information that many
people may not otherwise be able to access, you and anyone else who wants
to use the internet at public libraries may not be able to access the
sites listed here under these
On Fri, Jul 18, 2003 at 11:10:14PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 7/18/2003 3:28:58 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Perhaps Bob should post a rant where he whines about how the
conservatives on the list are intolerant of liberals.
Well have I
Hey Erik -
I've been consulting with an aquaintance's psychic, a
wiccan friend, another aquaintance who's into
Dianetics, and a fellow-worker who's a born-again
pagan, about this communication problem we seem to
have.
According to the Tarot reading, we have unresolved
issues from past lives, but
On Fri, Jul 18, 2003 at 07:09:55PM -0700, Deborah Harrell wrote:
Yet, as someone who does not 'follow' the actual math, at the end of
that article I gathered that despite recent gains, there are just too
many problems for wind to be a major source of energy for the US.
Come on, Debbi, are you
On Fri, Jul 18, 2003 at 07:17:16PM -0700, Deborah Harrell wrote:
*Nowhere* have I said numinous experiences are high quality
knowledge. I have in fact written over and over that, besides being
unprovable, these are *my* experiences and *my* interpretations,
and were important to *me* --
Gautam Mukunda wrote:
Well, I am sorry about that. This is an issue that is
striking a little close to the heart, though. There
is a pervasive dishonesty that has crept into this
issue where we have people actively crippling American
war efforts for short-term partisan advantage - and a
bunch
Gautam Mukunda wrote:
I don't claim that politics stop. That claim is
nothing more than an attempt to defend the
indefensible - to create a smokescreen behind which to
hide arguments that have no valid basis whatsoever.
It is unpatriotic to falsely attack the rationale for
the war when it is
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