http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/conspiracytheories/saudi.html
Some excerpts from this very long piece:
A meeting of prominent Saudis occurs in a Paris hotel. Among the
attendees is the head of Saudi intelligence, Turki bin Faisal, and Khalid
bin Mahfouz. They meet with a representative of al Qaeda and
At 02:28 PM Monday 10/25/04, Alberto Monteiro wrote:
The Alcantara Base should give Brazil a strong advantage over
competitors.
Only 2.3 degrees from the Equator, the base is considered the perfect
launch site.
It is the best place in the world to launch satellites: close to the
equator,
At 10:56 PM 10/25/2004 -0700 Nick Arnett wrote:
Brin has very loudly proclaimed that we're on opposite
sides. Well, okay. I know whose side I'm on, though.
If he said this, and your response was I'm on America's side, it's
easy for me to hear that as implying that David is not on America's
At 08:15 PM 10/25/2004 -0700 David Brin wrote:
The unbelievable sanctimony of claiming that one
side favors motherhood and apple pie...
and claiming that the other side is composed of
evil, traitorous monsters?
Just wondering...
No, just lying.
I have ample proof that this is a
Horn, John wrote:
Behalf Of Julia Thompson
This is why I'm trying to get in as much whining between now and
Wednesday night as possible. ;)
Ahem. I think I can pretty much guarantee that this will not be a
sweep. This series will go back to Boston. Don't get
overconfident. Look
Gautam Mukunda wrote:
You know, Dr. Brin, I challenged you on that ludicrous
statement, and you didn't back it up. It's pretty
obvious that you can't.
There are other possible explanations...
Nick
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Hi David,
I think I see a minor inconsistency between two of your
recent statements. Your clarification may be useful.
*Especially* if you think I misunderstood your positions.
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 01:02:28 -0700 (PDT) you said:
Do I really believe my theory about absolute and
knowing treason
Just days after Bush's now-controversial State of the Union Address
in 2003, Clinton declared: After what happened on 9/11, the will of
the international community has stiffened, as represented by this
last U.N. resolution, which said clearly that the penalty for
noncompliance is no longer
Bush gets a defector of his own, the first Libertarian
Presidential Candidate:
http://bidinotto.journalspace.com/?entryid=181
JDG
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JDG wrote:
No poster has questioned more people's patriotism on this List than Dr.
Brin, and no person has launched more overheated insults than Dr. Brin.
And quite frankly, it is a bit appalling when your only response is to go
after the *targets* of said comments.
Only response appears to be
Behalf Of iaamoac
Just days after Bush's now-controversial State of the Union
Address
in 2003, Clinton declared: After what happened on 9/11, the will
of
the international community has stiffened, as represented by this
last U.N. resolution, which said clearly that the penalty for
JDG wrote:
Again, the only inescapable conclusion from the above is that I, along
with the vast preponderenace of Bush voters, is a supporter of treason.
Or, as that poll suggests, deluded - not wanting to believe in things that
are becoming more and more obvious like the intimate relationship
- Original Message -
From: Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: Br!n: On the Saudis
Taking off my list manager hat... Are you saying that there are victims
of David's criticism who have behaved
- Original Message -
From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: Br!n: On the Saudis
- Original Message -
From: Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://tinyurl.com/62zsk
For the first time in the history of astronomy, scientists are about to
glimpse the mysterious surface of Titan, Saturn's haze-shrouded moon.
The spacecraft Cassini, flying in orbit around the planet since it first
entered Saturn's icy ring system last July, will speed
- Original Message -
From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 2:11 AM
Subject: Re: Br!n: On the Saudis
But, in fact, isn't it just possible that with the right amount of
political pressure, brought to bear by a
Dan wrote:
I find myself arguing someone I think is a bad president is simply a bad
president, not a traitor...so my stakes are more analytical than heart
felt. (I'm roughly assigning odds of 10^-6 that GWB is actually a
traitor).
So what, to you, are the repercussions if it is shown that Bush is
Dan wrote:
1) Crooks
2) Throwbacks
3) Idiots
I think I mistated 3. It should be Crazy.
I think you should add 4. Deluded. I know people that still think Nixon
was a good president.
--
Doug
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- Original Message -
From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: Br!n: On the Saudis
Dan wrote:
1) Crooks
2) Throwbacks
3) Idiots
I think I mistated 3. It should be Crazy.
I
- Original Message -
From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: Br!n: On the Saudis
Dan wrote:
I find myself arguing someone I think is a bad president is simply a
bad
president, not a
Behalf Of Dan Minette
I think you should add 4. Deluded. I know people that
still think Nixon
was a good president.
As far as defining your viewpoint, no argument. But, I was
trying to parse the clearest meaning of David's text.
I've always got the impression that David thought
Dan Minette wrote:
His flair for the dramatic can be very insulting.
I see it that way, too.
I don't see how calling those that differ with you idiots is helpful in
maintain dialog.
Me, neither, which may reflect a certain idiocy on my part, but I doubt
it... ;-)
Also, David is an award
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:21:47 -0500, Dan Minette
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
His flair for the dramatic can be very insulting. I get by very easy
because I'm a Kerry voter who thinks that his comments on Bush are akin
to
those of my dear departed aunt and uncle who were Birchers and
His flair for the dramatic can be very
insulting.
I see it that way, too.
Hate to post a me too message but...
What bothers me is his penchant to post rebuttals to
arguments with words like pathetic rather than
deconstructing the argument and presenting a
counterargument. He could go
JDG wrote:
It strikes me as a fair reading of Dr. Brin's
comments to this List for some time now - that
Republicans are enemies of the United States, and
Republican policies are never the product of
rational thought, but are instead the product of
this enmity.
Dr. Brin can correct the
On Oct 26, 2004, at 8:02 AM, Doug Pensinger wrote:
JDG wrote:
Again, the only inescapable conclusion from the above is that I,
along with the vast preponderenace of Bush voters, is a supporter of
treason.
Or, as that poll suggests, deluded - not wanting to believe in things
that are becoming
- Original Message -
From: Martin Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 3:22 AM
Subject: Re: From the Guardian
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 16:52:45 -0500, Dan Minette
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'll stop here and see if you agree
On Oct 26, 2004, at 8:20 AM, Doug Pensinger wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/62zsk
For the first time in the history of astronomy, scientists are about
to glimpse the mysterious surface of Titan, Saturn's haze-shrouded
moon.
The spacecraft Cassini, flying in orbit around the planet since it
first
On Oct 26, 2004, at 9:08 AM, Horn, John wrote:
Behalf Of Dan Minette
I think you should add 4. Deluded. I know people
that still think Nixon was a good president.
As far as defining your viewpoint, no argument. But, I was
trying to parse the clearest meaning of David's text.
I've always got the
For the record, all attempts by JDG and Gautam to act
the victim are simply counterfactual foolishness.
They have misrepresented me repeatedly and have flat
out attempted to portray me as calling all people who
disagree with me traitors. Since
http://www.davidbrin.com/ is replete with a myriad
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:54:50 -0500, Dan Minette
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There is the dissonance. Voluntary collectives can and do exist.
Historically, they require a profound shared belief (monasteries, kibbutz',
the Pilgrims), which is the source for the tremendous discipline that is
--- Ruben Krasnopolsky is a perfect example of the
sort of nit-picking conservative who I pray will step
up and rescue the movement. Until a few weeks ago he
was holding his nose and leaning toward Bush. Now
he's shown the kind of flexibility that I expect from
people who can overcome a
Taking a break from the heated political conversations on the
list
Ever wondered what a cat looks like in zero g? Take a look:
http://216.40.242.213/mirror/cat.mov
Might *slightly* offend sever cat/animal lovers. I have 3 cats and
I thought it was hilarious. In a sick sort of way...
-
Like many moderates, I was occasionally irked by the editors of the
PBS investigative show FRONTLINE over the years, for a discernible
leftward lean.
That perception has changed in part because new editors have helped
restore balance. But more so since the Hannity, O'Reilly, Limbaugh
crowd
- Original Message -
From: David Brin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: Brin: On the Republicans
If I responded to their intentional slander in too
dramatic a manner, I can only apoligize for matters of
On Oct 26, 2004, at 12:42 PM, Horn, John wrote:
Taking a break from the heated political conversations on the
list
Ever wondered what a cat looks like in zero g? Take a look:
http://216.40.242.213/mirror/cat.mov
Might *slightly* offend sever cat/animal lovers. I have 3 cats and
I thought it
I accept Dan's mild-mannered and reasoned rebuke.
I still resent being told that my (admittedly
dramatic) stance toward the core members of the
administration was meant by me to apply to anyone who
disagrees with me. And THAT most definitely was the
phrase used. There is no way on this (still
I have been following the Check 21 initiative for about 6 months now and I
think this is the beginning of the end for paper checks. I have mixed
feelings on this. Even though there will always be people that will want to
write a paper check, I suspect that banks will make check writing so
I have come to notice that several of the messages I contributed to this
list over the past few days still haven't arrived.
Is there a technical problem I should look into, or are the local
powers-that-be involved in the evil act of censoring?
If it's the former, it's a challenge. If it's the
On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 10:35:38PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
transparency and accountability.
So, what's your name and and home address?
--
Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/
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Perhaps we will have another cat one day...
http://www.allerca.com/html/pricingreserve.html
Did I mention here the re-discovery of our disappeared cat? He vanished
about two years ago in a winter storm, after having been an indoor cat
all of his adult life. And he was declawed, something I'll
No message of mine has been lost, but I'm getting a delay of around
six hours or so between sending email to the list and seeing it.
Maybe you can see that delay in the message headers.
I don't know if this delay is a technical problem or it is the expected
functioning of the list, maybe part of
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:01:29 -0700 (PDT) David Brin wrote:
--- Ruben Krasnopolsky is a perfect example of the
sort of nit-picking conservative who I pray will step
up and rescue the movement. Until a few weeks ago he
was holding his nose and leaning toward Bush.
I am a nit-picking one indeed,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have come to notice that several of the messages I contributed to this
list over the past few days still haven't arrived.
Is there a technical problem I should look into, or are the local
powers-that-be involved in the evil act of censoring?
No technical problems.
If
Following up on myself -- these last two
messages really came through fast!
So it is not always six hours...
That's good news.
Ruben
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- Original Message -
From: Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: Technical problem, or something far worse?
No technical problems.
If it's the former, it's a challenge. If it's the latter, I'm
JDG quoted:
Just days after Bush's now-controversial
State of the Union Address in 2003, Clinton
declared: After what happened on 9/11,
the will of the international community has
stiffened, as represented by this last U.N.
resolution, which said clearly that the
penalty for noncompliance is no
Gary Nunn wrote:
I have been following the Check 21 initiative for about 6 months now and I
think this is the beginning of the end for paper checks. I have mixed
feelings on this. Even though there will always be people that will want to
write a paper check, I suspect that banks will make
Nick Arnett wrote:
Perhaps we will have another cat one day...
http://www.allerca.com/html/pricingreserve.html
Wow.
That's the only way I'm ever going to have a cat.
Wow.
Julia
not sending in a deposit, but keenly interested to see how this works
out
Ruben Krasnopolsky wrote:
Following up on myself -- these last two
messages really came through fast!
So it is not always six hours...
That's good news.
New subscriber posts are moderated initially anyway. Depending on when
you post and when moderators are available to vet posts, it
Hidey-ho. New (digest) list member here. Chad Underkoffler --
pleezedtameetcha.
I have a question, and perhaps you folks can help me tease an
answer out.
In http://www.davidbrin.com/libertarianarticle2.html , Dr.
Brin says this:
That theme is suspicion of authority -- often accompanied by
its
At 10:22 AM 10/26/2004 -0700 Matt Grimaldi wrote:
It strikes me as a fair reading of Dr. Brin's
comments to this List for some time now - that
Republicans are enemies of the United States, and
Republican policies are never the product of
rational thought, but are instead the product of
this
At 06:45 AM 10/26/2004 -0700 Nick Arnett wrote:
You know, Dr. Brin, I challenged you on that ludicrous
statement, and you didn't back it up. It's pretty
obvious that you can't.
There are other possible explanations...
What's up Nick - are you *really* going to try and defend the outlandish
At 08:47 AM 10/26/2004 -0700 Doug Pensinger wrote:
So what, to you, are the repercussions if it is shown that Bush is
protecting the Saudi government - members of the Saudi royal family that
were directly funding the 9/11 terrorists?
Protecting the Saudi government from what?
JDG
At 10:01 AM 10/26/2004 -0500 Horn, John wrote:
Behalf Of iaamoac
Just days after Bush's now-controversial State of the Union
Address
in 2003, Clinton declared: After what happened on 9/11, the will
of
the international community has stiffened, as represented by this
last U.N. resolution,
--- JDG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What's up Nick - are you *really* going to try and
defend the outlandish
comment from Dr. Brin here that you snipped?
--- David Brin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
To call it rational argument when you
deliberately tell falsehoods about other peoples'
views.
At 05:03 PM 26/10/04 -0700, you wrote:
Hidey-ho. New (digest) list member here. Chad Underkoffler --
pleezedtameetcha.
I have a question,
snip
The second thing I'd like to discuss is Is tolerance a
positive, negative, or neutral meme? and Can tolerance be
abused, or is it currently being abused,
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:56:47 -0400, JDG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
directly funding the 9/11 terrorists?
Protecting the Saudi government from what?
The fact that members of the Saudi royal family and Saudi agents ergo the
Saudi government were directly involved in the planning and funding of the
Dan wrote:
As far as defining your viewpoint, no argument. But, I was trying to
parse
the clearest meaning of David's text. BTW, the scientist in me would like
to see a similar questionnaire with Kerry supporters to see if there is a
significant difference in knowledge. The questions would have
Dan wrote:
The world is full of possibilities Doug, but this is a long shot.
Political pressure comes from leverage. Who would we get involved in a
coalition to push on Saudi, and what would be the leverage.
A trillion dollars worth of investments in the U.S. alone, maybe?
It would certainly not
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