I have been critical of Adobe's marketing here in Australia, and I'm not
alone.
Same here.
And to be fair, I've only ever said two negative things about Adobe
publicly. Lack of marketing in my neck of the woods was one of them. The
other about masking the use of php on cf related pages on
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 11:45 PM, cft...@fusionlink.com wrote:
Scott,
I think its a bad decision and I took a great deal of time to make my blog
post. I agree twitter is for initial reactions and banter, blog posts are for
careful reflection and thought.
You posted your blog entry
John,
After reading some other comments it finally struck me what bothers me
most about your blog post, comments and your tweets. There is not one
positive thing you say about the situation. Everything you state is
negative. THAT is what make me think its FUD. THAT is what makes me
think you did
Brian Kotek brian...@gmail.com wrote:
And to add to that, I can say that *if* I did have deep knowledge of what is
going on with CF X, I *might* say that when people see what is coming, the
naysayers are going to feel really silly.
Really, really silly.
Thanks for that teaser
Perhaps, but I think there needs to be a serious discussion about this.
Adobe went about a weird way in announcing it and I guess hoped it
wouldn't get much notice as a result. This is one of the biggest
decisions they have made with ColdFusion in several years.
I find it comical how
in several years.
John
- Original Message -
From: Russ Michaels [mailto:r...@michaels.me.uk]
To: cf-talk@houseoffusion.com
Sent: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 00:23:44 +
Subject: Re: Re: Change in ColdFusion management
Painting a target on your back there John :-)
Unfortunately
[mailto:adrocknapho...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 10:46 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Re: Change in ColdFusion management
Russ,
You are a dick.
-Adam
** I thought about that one first.
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 5:09 PM, Russ Michaels r...@michaels.me.uk wrote:
Well we can't be sure
Adam,
insulting people that try to support/defend you and Adobe is certainly not
very smart, and I suspect is one of the reasons you are being replaced.
~|
Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now!
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 11:30 PM, Matt Quackenbush quackfu...@gmail.com wrote:
Damn! Mike Kear and Michael Grant, both? In the same thread?!?!?!
THE HEAVENS HAVE OPENED! :-)
For what it's worth, I think that the move seems pretty reasonable to
me. I appreciate the hard work that Adam has
when people see what is coming, the naysayers are going to feel really
silly.
Really, really silly.
That is made of 100% pure Awesome, and the best thing that has come out of
this thread.
Thanx for making my day,
G!
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 12:52 AM, Brian Kotek brian...@gmail.com wrote:
lol. Maybe you should wait until you see what poor replaced Adam is doing
next. (hint: it's not what a company does with an employee they are upset
with or replacing).
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 12:42 PM, Russ Michaels r...@michaels.me.uk wrote:
Adam,
insulting people that try to
Crikey, well if Adobe promote staff for bad behavior then we are all in the
wrong job :-)
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Brian Kotek brian...@gmail.com wrote:
lol. Maybe you should wait until you see what poor replaced Adam is doing
next. (hint: it's not what a company does with an
That's one way to look at it. But the much more likely view (and the one
Adobe sees) is that the people who think he's guilty of bad behavior are
not only a tiny minority, but are also wrong.
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Russ Michaels r...@michaels.me.uk wrote:
Crikey, well if Adobe
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 10:42 AM, Brian Kotek brian...@gmail.com wrote:
That's one way to look at it. But the much more likely view (and the one
Adobe sees) is that the people who think he's guilty of bad behavior are
not only a tiny minority, but are also wrong.
Perhaps I have a
Adam posted that from his gmail account. Doesn't seem that he was acting in any
official capacity for his company there (also no sig indicating that he's an
Adobe employee).
Yeah, I understand that there are some politics in play, but regardless of the
position we hold, or the company for
Only if said employee was posting in the context of their position, and not
responding personally to a personal accusation or comment.
So, yes, you have a misunderstanding of the Adobe corporate culture. Glad to
help clear that up for you!
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 1:48 PM, Judah McAuley
Brian, if you think it is wrong I wont argue, all I can suggest is try
searching the cf-talk archives and will find otherwise. I only read the
occasional post on here and even I seen it to be a fairly
regular occurrence, and that is discounting the ones directed at me.
If I am in a tiny minority
Russ,
It's clear you have beef with me. Saying I post first and think later is
an insult. Just because you don't like what I post, doesn't mean I don't
think about it. I promise that if you don't attack me, I won't attack you.
-Adam
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 11:28 AM, Russ Michaels
Fascinating. I guess things work differently there than anywhere else
I've been. Thank you for clearing that up.
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 10:57 AM, Brian Kotek brian...@gmail.com wrote:
Only if said employee was posting in the context of their position, and not
responding personally to a
Other way round Adam, you need to drop the vendetta.
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 8:11 PM, Adrocknaphobia adrocknapho...@gmail.comwrote:
Russ,
It's clear you have beef with me. Saying I post first and think later is
an insult. Just because you don't like what I post, doesn't mean I don't
think
Dropped.
-Adam
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Russ Michaels r...@michaels.me.uk wrote:
Other way round Adam, you need to drop the vendetta.
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 8:11 PM, Adrocknaphobia adrocknapho...@gmail.com
wrote:
Russ,
It's clear you have beef with me. Saying I post
Wow, its like history in the making, bridges being built, right here on
the cf-talk list. I'll expect the president to claim this was his doing
on CNN at 5PM EDT. Don't miss it!
-Nic
On 2/15/11 4:01 PM, Adrocknaphobia adrocknapho...@gmail.com wrote:
Dropped.
-Adam
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 7:46 PM, wrote:
http://www.codfusion.com/blog/post.cfm/so-there-s-this-story-about-a-frog-in-boiling-water
So you claim the following problems:
- a rise in serious bugs and security flaws like the FCKeditor hack
The criteria for meriting a security patch have been
Well, here's Adam's promotion:
http://www.adrocknaphobia.com/post.cfm/i-lvl-d-up-flash-builder-product-manager
I'll leave it to others to decide if they are in the wrong job.
--
WSS4CF - WS-Security framework for CF
http://wss4cf.riaforge.org/
On 16 February 2011 02:17, Russ Michaels
perhaps I am just weird.
No, you are a dick. I thought we already established that! ;)
(sorry Russ, I just couldn't resist!)
Thanks,
Eric Cobb
ECAR Technologies, LLC
http://www.ecartech.com
http://www.cfgears.com
On 2/15/2011 1:28 PM, Russ Michaels wrote:
Brian, if you think it is wrong
Well you know being a dick certainly would be a great job, certainly more
fun than being a COO :-) (presuming it means the same thing over there as it
does over here of course)
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 9:35 PM, Eric Cobb cft...@ecartech.com wrote:
perhaps I am just weird.
No, you are a
Russ - actually there could be some advantages. For example, Viagra would
make you taller.
-Original Message-
From: Russ Michaels [mailto:r...@michaels.me.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 7:11 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Change in ColdFusion management
Well you know being a dick
-talk
Subject: Re: Change in ColdFusion management
Well you know being a dick certainly would be a great job, certainly more
fun than being a COO :-) (presuming it means the same thing over there as it
does over here of course)
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 9:35 PM, Eric Cobbcft...@ecartech.com wrote
: Russ Michaels [mailto:r...@michaels.me.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 7:11 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Change in ColdFusion management
Well you know being a dick certainly would be a great job, certainly more
fun than being a COO :-) (presuming it means the same thing over
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 6:37 PM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.com wrote:
Worst. Thread. Evar.
How do we move a thread to cf-community? :)
--
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
If you're not annoying
How do we move a thread to cf-community? :)
Summon Darth Dinowitz.
G!
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 9:54 PM, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.comwrote:
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 6:37 PM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.com
wrote:
Worst. Thread. Evar.
How do we move a thread to cf-community?
Wait, wait, I got one!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w_DqhpMuFY
Ok, now we can move it.
:Den
--
I teach at Harvard that the world and the heavens, and the stars are
all real, but not so damned real, you see.
Josiah Royce
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 7:54 PM, Sean Corfield wrote:
On Tue, Feb
LOL
On 2/15/2011 10:18 PM, denstar wrote:
Wait, wait, I got one!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w_DqhpMuFY
Ok, now we can move it.
:Den
~|
Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now!
Anyone have Adam's announcement? I keep trying to access it and get a blank
page.
Thanks,
William
--
William E. Seiter
On Feb 14, 2011, cft...@fusionlink.com wrote:
In case people don't know and many may not due to the way it was announced late
last friday, there is a debate
Message -
From: William Seiter [mailto:will...@seiter.com]
To: cf-talk@houseoffusion.com
Sent: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 19:08:14 + (GMT)
Subject: Re: Change in ColdFusion management
Anyone have Adam's announcement? I keep trying to access it and get a blank
page.
Thanks,
William
--
William
: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 12:38 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Change in ColdFusion management
Anyone have Adam's announcement? I keep trying to access it and get a blank
page.
Thanks,
William
--
William E. Seiter
On Feb 14, 2011, cft...@fusionlink.com wrote:
In case people don't
Anyone have Adam's announcement?
Google cache to the rescue.
I think it's great. I've felt for years that Adobe wasn't giving CF the
attention it deserved. Adam's post confirms that I was right. And even
better is that it seems that's changing.
Long live CF.
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 1:46 PM, cft...@fusionlink.com wrote:
In case people don't know and
19:08:14 + (GMT)
Subject: Re: Change in ColdFusion management
Anyone have Adam's announcement? I keep trying to access it and get a blank
page.
Thanks,
William
--
William E. Seiter
On Feb 14, 2011, cft...@fusionlink.com wrote:
In case people don't know and many may not due
://www.adrocknaphobia.com/post.cfm/the-modern-age-of-coldfusioncd=1hl=enct=clnkgl=usclient=safarisource=www.google.com
- Original Message -
From: William Seiter [mailto:will...@seiter.com]
To: cf-talk@houseoffusion.com
Sent: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 19:08:14 + (GMT)
Subject: Re: Change
...@seiter.com]
To: cf-talk@houseoffusion.com
Sent: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 19:08:14 + (GMT)
Subject: Re: Change in ColdFusion management
Anyone have Adam's announcement? I keep trying to access it and get a
blank page.
Thanks,
William
--
William E. Seiter
On Feb
://www.adrocknaphobia.com/post.cfm/the-modern-age-of-coldfusioncd=1hl=enct=clnkgl=usclient=safarisource=www.google.com
- Original Message -
From: William Seiter [mailto:will...@seiter.com]
To: cf-talk@houseoffusion.com
Sent: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 19:08:14 + (GMT)
Subject: Re: Change in ColdFusion
For the love of all that is good and right in this world, folks, if you're
going to comment, please at least get it right.
Adobe are NOT _outsourcing_ **ANYTHING**! Adobe has an enormous corporate
presence in India. The engineering teams there are - get this, it's hard to
grasp, I know - ADOBE
Thanks for the clarification!
On 2/14/2011 7:46 PM, Matt Quackenbush wrote:
For the love of all that is good and right in this world, folks, if you're
going to comment, please at least get it right.
Adobe are NOT _outsourcing_ **ANYTHING**! Adobe has an enormous corporate
presence in
I didn't say they were outsourcing Matt, so you may want to follow your own
advice there.
I SAID:
But as has been said, this is not really outsourcing as Adobe have offices
and staff there and have had for a long time.
:-)
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 12:46 AM, Matt Quackenbush
@ Russ - You did indeed say that. My apologies for not reading past I can
understand why anyone would assume the worst about outsourcing to India, it
has a bad rep.
But plenty of others *have* accused Adobe of that, which is presumably why I
quit reading after seeing that. Again, I apologize
[mailto:quackfu...@gmail.com]
To: cf-talk@houseoffusion.com
Sent: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 18:46:32 -0600
Subject: Re: Re: Change in ColdFusion management
For the love of all that is good and right in this world, folks, if you're
going to comment, please at least get it right.
Adobe are NOT _outsourcing_ **ANYTHING
-
From: Russ Michaels [mailto:r...@michaels.me.uk]
To: cf-talk@houseoffusion.com
Sent: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 00:23:44 +
Subject: Re: Re: Change in ColdFusion management
Painting a target on your back there John :-)
Unfortunately having an opinion that is not 100% positive about CF or Adobe
You need a dictionary, then. It has a very specific definition. And no,
not here in the US is not the definition. :-)
out·sourceverb (used with object)
1.
(of a company or organization) to purchase (goods) or subcontract (services)
from an outside supplier or source.
2.
to contract out (jobs,
2011 00:23:44 +
Subject: Re: Re: Change in ColdFusion management
Painting a target on your back there John :-)
Unfortunately having an opinion that is not 100% positive about CF or Adobe
brings out the worst Trolls who really have nothing constructive to add and
just get their rocks off
: Change in ColdFusion management
You need a dictionary, then. It has a very specific definition. And no,
not here in the US is not the definition. :-)
out?source?verb (used with object)
1.
(of a company or organization) to purchase (goods) or subcontract (services)
from an outside supplier or source
Right so Adobe isn't outsourcing. They have an office in India in which
they probably hire Indian citizens.
Kelly
On 2/14/2011 8:07 PM, Matt Quackenbush wrote:
You need a dictionary, then. It has a very specific definition. And no,
not here in the US is not the definition. :-)
John, it's not about being word police. It's about whether or not you are
a man of your word. Words, whether you like it or not, have very specific
meanings. If you choose to use some whacked definition of words in your own
mind, definitions that don't even remotely match the actual
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 7:14 PM, Kelly wrote:
Right so Adobe isn't outsourcing. They have an office in India
Correction. They have *multiple* offices across India.
Here are my thoughts.
http://www.boyzoid.com/blog/index.cfm/2011/2/14/The-Sky-is-Falling
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 1:46 PM, cft...@fusionlink.com wrote:
In case people don't know and many may not due to the way it was announced
late last friday, there is a debate going on with the recent
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:23 PM, Russ Michaels r...@michaels.me.uk wrote:
worst. I can understand why anyone would assume the worst about outsourcing
to India, it has a bad rep and most people who have had to deal with
outsourced support will have been driven to tearing their hair out at some
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 5:05 PM, cft...@fusionlink.com wrote:
Perhaps, but I think there needs to be a serious discussion about this.
You don't think there was a serious discussion about this within
Adobe? Do you think Adobe should consult with all its users before
making a business decision?
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 5:14 PM, Kelly webd...@gmail.com wrote:
Right so Adobe isn't outsourcing. They have an office in India in which
they probably hire Indian citizens.
Yup, the Noida and Bangalore offices are staffed by a lot of locals
and, indeed, some Americans who have decided they'd
It seems odd that from Adam's fairly positive post people are taking away a
sense of doom for CF. From the sounds of it Adobe has agreed to give CF more
focus. Any way you cut it that's good for the product. Here's hoping the
overall strategy also includes some aggressive marketing... then I can
When Michael Grant comes out and posts in favor of a move by Adobe, you
*know* that the world is perfect. :-)
~|
Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now!
[mailto:quackfu...@gmail.com]
To: cf-talk@houseoffusion.com
Sent: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 19:19:46 -0600
Subject: Re: Re: Change in ColdFusion management
John, it's not about being word police. It's about whether or not you are
a man of your word. Words, whether you like it or not, have very specific
meanings
: Change in ColdFusion management
John, it's not about being word police. It's about whether or not you are
a man of your word. Words, whether you like it or not, have very specific
meanings. If you choose to use some whacked definition of words in your own
mind, definitions that don't even
of debate :)
John Mason
- Original Message -
From: Sean Corfield [mailto:seancorfi...@gmail.com]
To: cf-talk@houseoffusion.com
Sent: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 17:36:57 -0800
Subject: Re: Re: Change in ColdFusion management
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 5:05 PM, cft...@fusionlink.com wrote:
Perhaps
that at that point it may very well be too late.
John Mason
- Original Message -
From: Scott Stroz [mailto:boyz...@gmail.com]
To: cf-talk@houseoffusion.com
Sent: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 23:31:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Re: Change in ColdFusion management
John,
There is a big difference between 'an honest
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 8:36 PM, cft...@fusionlink.com wrote:
I think the community can have a discussion.
Sure, they _can_ if they want. I don't think they _need_ to, nor do I
think it's needs to be _serious_ - and judging from pretty much
everyone's responses to both your blog post and then
For the many CF customers outside of the US, these positions have
always been offshore. Time to join the rest of us on the planet.
--
WSS4CF - WS-Security framework for CF
http://wss4cf.riaforge.org/
On 15 February 2011 11:52, cft...@fusionlink.com wrote:
I did use the word offshore,
John, words are important. I read your entire post. I disagree with
virtually everything you stated in it. Based upon the comments there and
here (and presumably elsewhere, from what I gather), it appears that I am
not alone in disagreeing with you.
sarcasm
Oh! You hear that? You'd
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 11:45 PM, cft...@fusionlink.com wrote:
I think its a bad decision and I took a great deal of time to make my blog
post. I agree twitter is for initial reactions and banter, blog posts are
for careful reflection and thought. You keep referring to my twitter posts?
I
To be fair, Matt, I'm not sure how it works for the other products, but the
CF ACPs absolutely do have a very high level of input. We get (or may not
get, heh, I don't know where the NDAs affect what I can say) ongoing
briefings and opportunities for input on features as product development as
it
And to add to that, I can say that *if* I did have deep knowledge of what is
going on with CF X, I *might* say that when people see what is coming, the
naysayers are going to feel really silly.
Really, really silly.
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 12:48 AM, Brian Kotek brian...@gmail.com wrote:
To
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 6:55 PM, Matt Quackenbush wrote:
When Michael Grant comes out and posts in favor of a move by Adobe, you
*know* that the world is perfect. :-)
Proof!
:Den
--
For the Absolute, as we now know, all life is individual, but is
individual as expressing a meaning.
Right, but I did not say the ACPs have no input. (Nor did I say that they
should not have input.) I said that to suggest that their purpose was to
provide input is off base. Their publicly stated purpose is one of
marketing and evangelism.
The CAB, on the other hand, is, well, an _Advisory_
Are you speaking for Adobe and saying that customer input is
meaningless to them? Because I think a business that ignore its
customers will not be in business very long.
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 9:35 PM, Matt Quackenbush quackfu...@gmail.com wrote:
Also, on your comment about Adobe having to
LMAO! WTF? Seriously?
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 1:08 AM, Maureen mamamaur...@gmail.com wrote:
Are you speaking for Adobe and saying that customer input is
meaningless to them? Because I think a business that ignore its
customers will not be in business very long.
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at
I think there's a bit of the American NIH syndrome in evidence,
which is well known in international US owned companies, specially in
technology companies.This might come as a deep shock to some of
you Americans, but there are some VERY smart people OUTSIDE the USA.
I first saw this when I
Damn! Mike Kear and Michael Grant, both? In the same thread?!?!?!
THE HEAVENS HAVE OPENED! :-)
~|
Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now!
http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion
Actually Matt, I hope you read all of my post. I'm not taking the
same stance as Michael Grant.
Cheers
Mike Kear
Windsor, NSW, Australia
Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer
AFP Webworks
http://afpwebworks.com
ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month
I did read your entire post. And I did not say you were taking the same
stance. But you both said positive things about Adobe. In the same
thread. Miracles *do* happen! :-)
~|
Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now!
Indeed, Matt.In fact my posting at all here is a minor miracle. I
gave up on it quite some time ago when I was beaten about the head for
expressing my opinion.
I have this reputation as being a negative whiner. But I think it's
uncalled for. I have been critical of Adobe's marketing here
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