Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I did a similar process with the PO. It lasted about 10 years then started 
leaking a small
amount. The caulking had hardened and was not sealing well against the chain 
plate.
The caulking came away from the SS easily, was a job scraping it away from the 
deck.

I tried a marine silicon based sealant the next time, never sealed that well.

Third time I used Bed-It Butyl ( thanks Ed for splitting an order ). Much 
easier and has
sealed perfectly.  I like being able to lift the plate, check / move / add 
butyl if required.
That may be one of the few spots were there is appreciable movement that the 
caulking
has to deal with, and staying stuck to SS is tough.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1



From: RANDY  
 
Thanks Josh, and Danny, and Mike.  
 
Dennis C. is out here in Colorado from Louisiana for a few weeks to do some 
skiing, so he gave me some free consulting today (well, I did take him to the 
local Cajun joint the other week and buy him a po'boy and a couple beers, which 
was the least I could do).  
 
Anyway Dennis looked at my chainplate cutouts today and we made a plan of 
attack for the job, which basically amounts to a re-seal: dig out an inch of 
core around the cutouts, fill with thickened epoxy (with the chainplates in 
place), then re-seal. Of course that's a summarization and there is some devil 
in the details, and I appreciate all of your tips. But that should be 
sufficient to prevent any further water intrusion into the core. I'm not having 
any deck strength issues.  
 
I'll post some pics of during and after the project. Thanks again Dennis!  
 
Cheers,  
Randy  
___

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Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

[RANDY via CnC-List]

Thanks Josh, and Danny, and Mike. 

Dennis C. is out here in Colorado from Louisiana for a few weeks to do some 
skiing, so he gave me some free consulting today (well, I did take him to the 
local Cajun joint the other week and buy him a po'boy and a couple beers, which 
was the least I could do). 

Anyway Dennis looked at my chainplate cutouts today and we made a plan of 
attack for the job, which basically amounts to a re-seal: dig out an inch of 
core around the cutouts, fill with thickened epoxy (with the chainplates in 
place), then re-seal. Of course that's a summarization and there is some devil 
in the details, and I appreciate all of your tips. But that should be 
sufficient to prevent any further water intrusion into the core. I'm not having 
any deck strength issues. 

I'll post some pics of during and after the project. Thanks again Dennis! 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Josh Muckley via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
To: "C List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: "Josh Muckley" <muckl...@gmail.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 12:05:16 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates 

Randy, 

When I use the bent nail trick, I actually us allen wrenches and dig 
progressively deeper and deeper by going larger and larger on the choice of 
wrench. You'll want a shopvac. You may also have trouble getting the thickened 
epoxy to wet out all of the inner surfaces and then you may have trouble 
getting the thickened epoxy to not sag. When you do such a large volume be 
careful of thermal runaway and if you do it in smaller batches just be careful 
of the possibility of amine blush not allowing a good bond between layers. 

Here are my suggested solutions: Seal the bottom of the void completely. For 
small holes on smooth interior surfaces masking tape, duct tape, or gorilla 
tape works fine. For uneven interior surfaces you may need a strongback. A 
piece of wood plank wrapped in waxed paper with 1 or 2 long bolts through it 
would probably work. You'll want to consider some type of inner gasket. Playdow 
or plasticine should work pretty well to eliminate the possibility of leaks. 
Nobody wants epoxy leaking into their cabin. The long bolts let you attach an 
outer backing plate which will pull the wood tight to the inner surface. Once 
you have confidence in your setup, mix up a small batch of 5 MINUTE epoxy. 
Spread this on the inner surfaces which might leak, just to create one more 
barrier. It doesn't need to be a lot. 5 minutes later you can use a low 
viscosity epoxy to completely wet out the void (I like smith's CPES). A syringe 
and/or a piece of tubing may be helpful. To avoid amine blush between layers I 
would try to do a single "monolithic" pour of your thickened epoxy. To avoid 
thermal run away find an epoxy that has a painfully long cure time in hot 
weather. Then with your unthickened epoxy of choice fill the cavity to the 
brim. As you're filling focus on the areas nearest the boat's centerline since 
these are elevated and won't get covered as the liquid reaches the lower brim. 
Use your syringe to suck out the epoxy into a container. Add your filler and 
then refill the cavity. Something with a consistency of peanut butter (like 
Six/10) is great since it won't sag but it is also flawed in that unless you 
can hydraulicly push the mix into the voids you are at risk of not getting a 
complete fill. A little thinner and gravity will help fill the voids but then 
it runs out the lower holes and flows over the lower brim. In an ideal world 
you would have an outer strongback which is gasketed the same as the inner one. 
Drill a small hole (1/8th or 3/16ths) near the outboard edge of the void and 
another near the inboard edge. Use the bottom (outboard) hole to inject 
thickened epoxy into the void until it comes out the vent at the top (inboard). 
Use a wood screw to plug the fill hole and then make sure it is topped up at 
the vent. 

If you feel like it, those long bolts are useful for holding down a cover on 
your project. 

A day or two later you can remove the vent screw to test how the epoxy has 
curred. Can't get the screw out? That's probably a good thing. Try to unbolt 
your strong backs but if they are stuck a little heat from a torch will make 
them slide right out. Waxed paper should release and the plasticine will 
unstick. Now you have a perfect plug of epoxy. Just drill a series of holes to 
get a saw blade in and then cut your slot for the chain plate. Once you get the 
slot wide enough a small sanding drum is invaluable for dressing up the area. I 
would hesitate making the slot any wider than necessary. I don't think the 
chain plate needs to move side to side in the slot so wider than necessary just 
makes sealing the hole more difficult. Chamfer the edges of the slot to create 
a funnel for the sealant. Predrill the holes for the cover and counter sink 
them to fu

Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

n't sound dull and doesn't deflect downward.  It seems solid
enough.

The chainplates themselves show no signs of corrosion or moisture damage.
Only one bolt (lowest inboard starboard) out of 14 showed any rust, and it
was superficial (nowhere near twisting the head off).  I'm fortunate that
my boat has had a freshwater life its entire life.

You can see in the pictures I've got a bit more old sealant to clean away,
but then I think a dig, fill, and re-seal job should suffice.  Really
appreciate everyone's responses.  Someday I'll need to work up the courage
to do a peel & re-core job under my starboard aft bow pulpit foot - I have
a small soft spot there.

Best Regards,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO

--
*From: *"Dave S via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
*To: *"C Stus List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
*Cc: *"Dave S" <syerd...@gmail.com>
*Sent: *Monday, January 30, 2017 9:43:00 AM

*Subject: *Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates


FWIW, and I agree with much below.  Will assume you are dealing with balsa
and not plywood as a core.   Have repaired both and will share the
following, YMMV, etc...  Probably way too much info, but:

1)   Damp balsa does not mean structurally unsound (yet)

2)  I prefer to remove more rather than less.This allows you a large
enough area to work, makes it easy to clean/prep the surfaces, as well as
being certain that you are not building any voids into the finished
result.   You can also use really thick glass-loaded epoxy that simply
cannot be injected into a small hole.   As with drywall/sheetrock, it is
sometimes easier when doing repairs to give yourself space to work, and to
prep the surfaces.

3)  I like the hole saw approach, cutting through one skin only.   The hole
saw also allows you the opportunity to install a structural filler piece,
well bedded in glass-filled epoxy.  Rather than just troweling in the
schmutz. you can laminate a sheet of fibreglass into a high density layup
of the appropriate thickness, (even tapered, or curved) then use the same
hole saw to cut out a "puck" from that sheet and install into the hole.
Bulletproof.

4)  IMO Working from below is best if you have the space/access, for a
number of reasons, including the fact that any holes won't move.   Working
from above can be easier, though the cosmetic redemption is harder.

5)  Epoxy is available in a range of cure times."hot in the pot" should
not be an issue if you pick the right one.  Never had that happen, but I
have had it get a little warm and further shorten the cure time.   (have
had polyester resin get pretty hot)

6)   To make a patch that feathers on the edges, laminate progressively
smaller pieces of cloth (alternate mat and cloth with polyester resin, I
like biaxial stitch mat with epoxy) on a sheet of waxed paper, then lift
that and stick it onto the wound like a bandaid, peeling off the waxed
paper.Best is to do this (or any sequential application of epoxy) on
top of the previous epoxy application while it is at its B stage (gelled
but not cured)   Not only is the putty still it pliable, but it will not
need prep to achieve a good chemical bond.  You can not simply epoxy over
top of cured epoxy and expect a bond.  (google "amine blush")

7)  when done,  (but not cured)  you can carefully lay some PE film (or
waxed paper) over top and smooth.  this can help tame any stray edges and
depending on the repair, actually functions a bit like a vacuum bag,
assisting in adhesion to curves.  You can also shape any putty into smooth
shapes or radii for a more professional result.

8)  Read up on fillers. If you expect to fill space, you don't want the
epoxy to flow, you need colloidal silica, If you want it to be strong you
need to load with glass, you want to sand it microspheres.   (don't put
yourself in the position of having to sand the structural part of a
repair)

9)   make a notched trowel and use appropriate fillers for
fairing/finishing.   The notches leave little ridges in the epoxy.   Sand
those off and stop.

OK, that's enough...

Dave


-- Forwarded message --
From: <cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com>
Date: 30 January 2017 at 09:25
Subject: CnC-List Digest, Vol 132, Issue 70
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com


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Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  Deck Coring Around Chainplates > Chainplates (Danny Haughey)
   2. Re:  Deck Coring

Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

ahh  now I see there is an enlarged hole already.  If this were my 
issue,  I'd open it up past the bolt holes and make a solid FG pad 
here.  then cut a new slot, drill new bolt holes and protect that balsa 
core from ever being victim to water damage again. Basically a mini 
version of Mikes repair.  Or, could you just remove the core back past 
the bolt holes and fill the whole thing with an epoxy/filler mix?  I 
think the main thing is to protect the remaining core from ever getting 
wet again from these openings.  Also, do you think a multi tool would do 
a much better job of getting the wet core removed given the amount of 
access afforded by that slot?


Danny


On 1/31/2017 8:13 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List wrote:


Randy

Of your four pictures only the portlookingaft picture does not show 
any discolouration that appears to be rot.  You should start digging 
out the core to see how far the wet and rot travels from the opening


Mike

*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*RANDY via CnC-List

*Sent:* Monday, January 30, 2017 11:15 PM
*To:* cnc-list
*Cc:* RANDY; Dave S
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

I'd really like to thank everyone for all the responses on this.

Went back to the boat today and carefully re-examined the core around 
the chainplate cutouts, and did a bunch of testing - percussion 
testing, weighting the area and looking for deflection, etc.  Put a 
few pictures up at 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTcTV6UlEwMmlqZkk.


I don't think the extent of coring warrants peeling the top skin and 
replacing core material; I think digging out some core around the 
edges, and filling with thickened epoxy, will be enough of an 
improvement and repair.  The deck, especially outboard and downslope 
of the chainplate cutouts, doesn't sound dull and doesn't deflect 
downward.  It seems solid enough.


The chainplates themselves show no signs of corrosion or moisture 
damage.  Only one bolt (lowest inboard starboard) out of 14 showed any 
rust, and it was superficial (nowhere near twisting the head off). 
 I'm fortunate that my boat has had a freshwater life its entire life.


You can see in the pictures I've got a bit more old sealant to clean 
away, but then I think a dig, fill, and re-seal job should suffice. 
 Really appreciate everyone's responses.  Someday I'll need to work up 
the courage to do a peel & re-core job under my starboard aft bow 
pulpit foot - I have a small soft spot there.


Best Regards,

Randy Stafford

S/V Grenadine

C 30-1 #7

Ken Caryl, CO



*From: *"Dave S via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
*To: *"C Stus List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>

*Cc: *"Dave S" <syerd...@gmail.com <mailto:syerd...@gmail.com>>
*Sent: *Monday, January 30, 2017 9:43:00 AM
*Subject: *Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

FWIW, and I agree with much below.  Will assume you are dealing with 
balsa and not plywood as a core. Have repaired both and will share the 
following, YMMV, etc...  Probably way too much info, but:


1) Damp balsa does not mean structurally unsound (yet)

2)  I prefer to remove more rather than less.This allows you a 
large enough area to work, makes it easy to clean/prep the surfaces, 
as well as being certain that you are not building any voids into the 
finished result.   You can also use really thick glass-loaded epoxy 
that simply cannot be injected into a small hole.   As with 
drywall/sheetrock, it is sometimes easier when doing repairs to give 
yourself space to work, and to prep the surfaces.


3) I like the hole saw approach, cutting through one skin only.   
The hole saw also allows you the opportunity to install a structural 
filler piece, well bedded in glass-filled epoxy.  Rather than just 
troweling in the schmutz. you can laminate a sheet of fibreglass into 
a high density layup of the appropriate thickness, (even tapered, or 
curved) then use the same hole saw to cut out a "puck" from that sheet 
and install into the hole. Bulletproof.


4) IMO Working from below is best if you have the space/access, for a 
number of reasons, including the fact that any holes won't 
move.   Working from above can be easier, though the cosmetic 
redemption is harder.


5) Epoxy is available in a range of cure times. "hot in the pot" 
should not be an issue if you pick the right one.  Never had that 
happen, but I have had it get a little warm and further shorten the 
cure time.   (have had polyester resin get pretty hot)


6) To make a patch that feathers on the edges, laminate progressively 
smaller pieces of cloth (alternate mat and cloth with polyester resin, 
I like biaxial stitch mat with epoxy) on a sheet of waxed paper, then 
lift that and stick it onto the wo

Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Randy

Of your four pictures only the portlookingaft picture does not show any 
discolouration that appears to be rot.  You should start digging out the core 
to see how far the wet and rot travels from the opening

Mike

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of RANDY via 
CnC-List
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 11:15 PM
To: cnc-list
Cc: RANDY; Dave S
Subject: Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

I'd really like to thank everyone for all the responses on this.

Went back to the boat today and carefully re-examined the core around the 
chainplate cutouts, and did a bunch of testing - percussion testing, weighting 
the area and looking for deflection, etc.  Put a few pictures up at 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTcTV6UlEwMmlqZkk.

I don't think the extent of coring warrants peeling the top skin and replacing 
core material; I think digging out some core around the edges, and filling with 
thickened epoxy, will be enough of an improvement and repair.  The deck, 
especially outboard and downslope of the chainplate cutouts, doesn't sound dull 
and doesn't deflect downward.  It seems solid enough.

The chainplates themselves show no signs of corrosion or moisture damage.  Only 
one bolt (lowest inboard starboard) out of 14 showed any rust, and it was 
superficial (nowhere near twisting the head off).  I'm fortunate that my boat 
has had a freshwater life its entire life.

You can see in the pictures I've got a bit more old sealant to clean away, but 
then I think a dig, fill, and re-seal job should suffice.  Really appreciate 
everyone's responses.  Someday I'll need to work up the courage to do a peel & 
re-core job under my starboard aft bow pulpit foot - I have a small soft spot 
there.

Best Regards,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO


From: "Dave S via CnC-List" 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
To: "C Stus List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: "Dave S" <syerd...@gmail.com<mailto:syerd...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 9:43:00 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates


FWIW, and I agree with much below.  Will assume you are dealing with balsa and 
not plywood as a core.   Have repaired both and will share the following, YMMV, 
etc...  Probably way too much info, but:

1)   Damp balsa does not mean structurally unsound (yet)

2)  I prefer to remove more rather than less.This allows you a large enough 
area to work, makes it easy to clean/prep the surfaces, as well as being 
certain that you are not building any voids into the finished result.   You can 
also use really thick glass-loaded epoxy that simply cannot be injected into a 
small hole.   As with drywall/sheetrock, it is sometimes easier when doing 
repairs to give yourself space to work, and to prep the surfaces.

3)  I like the hole saw approach, cutting through one skin only.   The hole saw 
also allows you the opportunity to install a structural filler piece, well 
bedded in glass-filled epoxy.  Rather than just troweling in the schmutz. you 
can laminate a sheet of fibreglass into a high density layup of the appropriate 
thickness, (even tapered, or curved) then use the same hole saw to cut out a 
"puck" from that sheet and install into the hole.  Bulletproof.

4)  IMO Working from below is best if you have the space/access, for a number 
of reasons, including the fact that any holes won't move.   Working from above 
can be easier, though the cosmetic redemption is harder.

5)  Epoxy is available in a range of cure times."hot in the pot" should not 
be an issue if you pick the right one.  Never had that happen, but I have had 
it get a little warm and further shorten the cure time.   (have had polyester 
resin get pretty hot)

6)   To make a patch that feathers on the edges, laminate progressively smaller 
pieces of cloth (alternate mat and cloth with polyester resin, I like biaxial 
stitch mat with epoxy) on a sheet of waxed paper, then lift that and stick it 
onto the wound like a bandaid, peeling off the waxed paper.Best is to do 
this (or any sequential application of epoxy) on top of the previous epoxy 
application while it is at its B stage (gelled but not cured)   Not only is the 
putty still it pliable, but it will not need prep to achieve a good chemical 
bond.  You can not simply epoxy over top of cured epoxy and expect a bond.  
(google "amine blush")

7)  when done,  (but not cured)  you can carefully lay some PE film (or waxed 
paper) over top and smooth.  this can help tame any stray edges and depending 
on the repair, actually functions a bit like a vacuum bag, assisting in 
adhesion to curves.  You can also shape any putty into smooth shapes or radii 
for a more professional result.

8)  Read up on fillers. If you expect to fill space

Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

[RANDY via CnC-List]

I'd really like to thank everyone for all the responses on this. 

Went back to the boat today and carefully re-examined the core around the 
chainplate cutouts, and did a bunch of testing - percussion testing, weighting 
the area and looking for deflection, etc. Put a few pictures up at 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTcTV6UlEwMmlqZkk . 

I don't think the extent of coring warrants peeling the top skin and replacing 
core material; I think digging out some core around the edges, and filling with 
thickened epoxy, will be enough of an improvement and repair. The deck, 
especially outboard and downslope of the chainplate cutouts, doesn't sound dull 
and doesn't deflect downward. It seems solid enough. 

The chainplates themselves show no signs of corrosion or moisture damage. Only 
one bolt (lowest inboard starboard) out of 14 showed any rust, and it was 
superficial (nowhere near twisting the head off). I'm fortunate that my boat 
has had a freshwater life its entire life. 

You can see in the pictures I've got a bit more old sealant to clean away, but 
then I think a dig, fill, and re-seal job should suffice. Really appreciate 
everyone's responses. Someday I'll need to work up the courage to do a peel & 
re-core job under my starboard aft bow pulpit foot - I have a small soft spot 
there. 

Best Regards, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C 30-1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 

- Original Message -

From: "Dave S via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
To: "C Stus List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: "Dave S" <syerd...@gmail.com> 
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 9:43:00 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates 


FWIW, and I agree with much below. Will assume you are dealing with balsa and 
not plywood as a core. Have repaired both and will share the following, YMMV, 
etc... Probably way too much info, but: 

1) Damp balsa does not mean structurally unsound (yet) 

2) I prefer to remove more rather than less. This allows you a large enough 
area to work, makes it easy to clean/prep the surfaces, as well as being 
certain that you are not building any voids into the finished result. You can 
also use really thick glass-loaded epoxy that simply cannot be injected into a 
small hole. As with drywall/sheetrock, it is sometimes easier when doing 
repairs to give yourself space to work, and to prep the surfaces. 

3) I like the hole saw approach, cutting through one skin only. The hole saw 
also allows you the opportunity to install a structural filler piece, well 
bedded in glass-filled epoxy. Rather than just troweling in the schmutz. you 
can laminate a sheet of fibreglass into a high density layup of the appropriate 
thickness, (even tapered, or curved) then use the same hole saw to cut out a 
"puck" from that sheet and install into the hole. Bulletproof. 

4) IMO Working from below is best if you have the space/access, for a number of 
reasons, including the fact that any holes won't move. Working from above can 
be easier, though the cosmetic redemption is harder. 

5) Epoxy is available in a range of cure times. "hot in the pot" should not be 
an issue if you pick the right one. Never had that happen, but I have had it 
get a little warm and further shorten the cure time. (have had polyester resin 
get pretty hot) 

6) To make a patch that feathers on the edges, laminate progressively smaller 
pieces of cloth (alternate mat and cloth with polyester resin, I like biaxial 
stitch mat with epoxy) on a sheet of waxed paper, then lift that and stick it 
onto the wound like a bandaid, peeling off the waxed paper. Best is to do this 
(or any sequential application of epoxy) on top of the previous epoxy 
application while it is at its B stage (gelled but not cured) Not only is the 
putty still it pliable, but it will not need prep to achieve a good chemical 
bond. You can not simply epoxy over top of cured epoxy and expect a bond. 
(google "amine blush") 

7) when done, (but not cured) you can carefully lay some PE film (or waxed 
paper) over top and smooth. this can help tame any stray edges and depending on 
the repair, actually functions a bit like a vacuum bag, assisting in adhesion 
to curves. You can also shape any putty into smooth shapes or radii for a more 
professional result. 

8) Read up on fillers. If you expect to fill space, you don't want the epoxy to 
flow, you need colloidal silica, If you want it to be strong you need to load 
with glass, you want to sand it microspheres. (don't put yourself in the 
position of having to sand the structural part of a repair) 

9) make a notched trowel and use appropriate fillers for fairing/finishing. The 
notches leave little ridges in the epoxy. Sand those off and stop. 

OK, that's enough... 

Dave 


-- Forwarded message -- 
From: < cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com > 
Date: 30 January 2017 at 09:25 
Subject: CnC-List Digest

Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

[Dave S via CnC-List]

FWIW, and I agree with much below.  Will assume you are dealing with balsa and 
not plywood as a core.   Have repaired both and will share the following, YMMV, 
etc...  Probably way too much info, but:

1)   Damp balsa does not mean structurally unsound (yet)  

2)  I prefer to remove more rather than less.This allows you a large enough 
area to work, makes it easy to clean/prep the surfaces, as well as being 
certain that you are not building any voids into the finished result.   You can 
also use really thick glass-loaded epoxy that simply cannot be injected into a 
small hole.   As with drywall/sheetrock, it is sometimes easier when doing 
repairs to give yourself space to work, and to prep the surfaces.  

3)  I like the hole saw approach, cutting through one skin only.   The hole saw 
also allows you the opportunity to install a structural filler piece, well 
bedded in glass-filled epoxy.  Rather than just troweling in the schmutz. you 
can laminate a sheet of fibreglass into a high density layup of the appropriate 
thickness, (even tapered, or curved) then use the same hole saw to cut out a 
"puck" from that sheet and install into the hole.  Bulletproof.  

4)  IMO Working from below is best if you have the space/access, for a number 
of reasons, including the fact that any holes won't move.   Working from above 
can be easier, though the cosmetic redemption is harder.

5)  Epoxy is available in a range of cure times."hot in the pot" should not 
be an issue if you pick the right one.  Never had that happen, but I have had 
it get a little warm and further shorten the cure time.   (have had polyester 
resin get pretty hot)

6)   To make a patch that feathers on the edges, laminate progressively smaller 
pieces of cloth (alternate mat and cloth with polyester resin, I like biaxial 
stitch mat with epoxy) on a sheet of waxed paper, then lift that and stick it 
onto the wound like a bandaid, peeling off the waxed paper.Best is to do 
this (or any sequential application of epoxy) on top of the previous epoxy 
application while it is at its B stage (gelled but not cured)   Not only is the 
putty still it pliable, but it will not need prep to achieve a good chemical 
bond.  You can not simply epoxy over top of cured epoxy and expect a bond.  
(google "amine blush")

7)  when done,  (but not cured)  you can carefully lay some PE film (or waxed 
paper) over top and smooth.  this can help tame any stray edges and depending 
on the repair, actually functions a bit like a vacuum bag, assisting in 
adhesion to curves.  You can also shape any putty into smooth shapes or radii 
for a more professional result.  

8)  Read up on fillers. If you expect to fill space, you don't want the epoxy 
to flow, you need colloidal silica, If you want it to be strong you need to 
load with glass, you want to sand it microspheres.   (don't put yourself in the 
position of having to sand the structural part of a repair) 

9)   make a notched trowel and use appropriate fillers for fairing/finishing.   
The notches leave little ridges in the epoxy.   Sand those off and stop. 

OK, that's enough...

Dave


-- Forwarded message --
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Date: 30 January 2017 at 09:25
Subject: CnC-List Digest, Vol 132, Issue 70
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com


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Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  Deck Coring Around Chainplates > Chainplates (Danny Haughey)
   2. Re:  Deck Coring Around Chainplates > Chainplates (Danny Haughey)
   3. Re:  Deck Coring Around Chainplates (Hoyt, Mike)


-- Forwarded message --
From: Danny Haughey <djhaug...@juno.com>
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: 
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 09:08:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates > Chainplates
Hi randy,

It seems you are definitely going in the right direction.  I had a problem like 
this on one of my old boats but, under the bow rail feet.  I traced out the 
size of the plate and oped things up a bit with a hole saw to give deeper 



>>>snip




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Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Hi Danny

Yes.  After three layers cloth and then the core in place I did fill the 
cavities surrounding the new core with thickened epoxy (or if using Polyester 
with thickened polyester).  I used West 406 which I believe is colida silica 
(spelling).  This has adhesive properties and I hoped was a bit stronger.  
After that was the next layers of cloth saturated with resin and the final skim 
coats I used a sandable filler such as West 407 in the epoxy.

The main difference around the chainplate area was that we needed to leave 
holes for the chainpates.  To do this I coated the chain plates with Vaseline 
as a release agent  (I think that is what I used) and put the chainplates in 
place.  The core material ended approx. one inch from the chainplates on all 
sides and I filled in the gap with epoxy thickened with filler.  Once the area 
was built up to deck devel I used a hammer and a block of wood to knock the 
chainplates out and then went on to the normal sanding procedure followed by 
painting.  It did not leak after that on either boat and with the area 
surrounded by epoxy I am confident the core could not get wet

As I said before.  This was a relatively simple job.

Mike

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Danny 
Haughey via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 11:30 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Danny Haughey
Subject: Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates


mike,

you shared that link before and I never get bored going to look at it!!  That 
is a great job!

I thin one needs to get past the fear of opening up what needs to be opened on 
a project like that.  Going a little extra isn't really any more work.

What did you do for the voids around the new coring, just fill with the 
epoxy/filler?

Danny

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

mike,

you shared that link before and I never get bored going to look at it!!  
That is a great job!


I thin one needs to get past the fear of opening up what needs to be 
opened on a project like that.  Going a little extra isn't really any 
more work.


What did you do for the voids around the new coring, just fill with the 
epoxy/filler?


Danny


On 1/30/2017 9:25 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List wrote:


Hi Randy

The first step you should have done is to determine the extent of the 
wetness.  It is likely a lot more extensive than you would at first 
believe.  I would seek out a local resource (surveyor or boatbuilder) 
and have them map out the wet area for you.  Remember these are old 
boats and the moisture has had a long time to spread.  The second 
thing you should know is that a wet deck does not normally feel at all 
spongy. This only occurs on a severely rotted area


The good news is that this is a very simple repair and one that you 
can easily do yourself.  It is also not very expensive. I have recored 
around the chainplates on my two previous boats.  On our Niagara 26 a 
very experienced boatbuilder (who incidentally purchased and resold a 
number of C 30-1) showed me how to do this.  He routinely did this 
on boats he was reselling.  My first instinct was to just dig out 
around the chainplates but he used his moisture meter and hammer and 
mapped out the wet areas as approx. 3 ft by 1 ft on each side.  The 
repair was completed and it looked no different than the rest of the deck.


The process I used for replacing wet and rotted deck coring is 
documented on my current boat web page.  This was from our J27 “Nut 
Case”.  I also have a page that documents the chainplate area recoring 
on the same boat but that is not currently on the web site and I am 
having a bit of difficulty connecting to upload it.  I will post to 
this group with a note to you once I get it back on the web. 
Unfortunately I only have so much space allotted and cannot leave 
everything online.


The link to deck recore replacement can be found on this page 
http://users.eastlink.ca/~mhoyt/j27_index.html 
<http://users.eastlink.ca/%7Emhoyt/j27_index.html> The process for the 
chainplate area is basically the same.


Regards

Mike

Persistence

Halifax, NS

http://users.eastlink.ca/~mhoyt <http://users.eastlink.ca/%7Emhoyt>

*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*RANDY via CnC-List

*Sent:* Sunday, January 29, 2017 6:48 PM
*To:* cnc-list
*Cc:* RANDY
*Subject:* Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

Listers-

We're having a spate of nice weather here in Denver - supposed to be 
sunny all week and 61 degrees tomorrow (yes, in late January / early 
February).


So today I pulled the chainplates on my 1972 C 30 MK I as part of a 
planned rebedding job (I confirmed leaks down the chainplates last 
year).  Unfortunately after removing all old sealant I found some wet 
and rotten wood core material between the outer and inner deck skins 
around the chainplate cutout holes.


Now I want to solicit the list's collective wisdom on how to deal with 
this the right way.  The lazy approach would be to just reinstall the 
chainplates and inject new sealant all around, including into the void 
between deck skins where rotten core came out, butting up against 
remaining (and possibly still wet) core.


On the other hand I've read everything Don Casey has to say about 
cored deck repair.  I could consider removing core around all sides of 
the cutout, about a half-inch back from each edge, using a bent nail 
chucked into a power drill.  Then I could fill those voids with 
thickened epoxy to the edges of the cutout, and then re-bed the 
chainplates.


The extreme end of the spectrum would be to try to map out the area of 
wet core e.g. perhaps from the outboard edge of the chainplate cutout 
all the way to the toe rail, then remove and replace the damaged core. 
 However that seems like a huge and complicated job, and I don't think 
the wet area is that large.  I haven't noticed any softness or 
squishiness around the chainplates at all, but I can percussion-test 
it carefully.


In the meantime I'm letting those areas dry out by leaving the 
chainplates out and exposing those areas to the dry Colorado air.  I 
may go pour some acetone in those voids too, since Don Casey 
identifies that as a core-drying technique.


I'm leaning towards the void-filling approach.  What do you think?

Thanks,

Randy Stafford

S/V Grenadine

C 30-1 #7

Ken Caryl, CO



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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go

Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Hi Randy

The first step you should have done is to determine the extent of the wetness.  
It is likely a lot more extensive than you would at first believe.  I would 
seek out a local resource (surveyor or boatbuilder) and have them map out the 
wet area for you.  Remember these are old boats and the moisture has had a long 
time to spread.  The second thing you should know is that a wet deck does not 
normally feel at all spongy.  This only occurs on a severely rotted area

The good news is that this is a very simple repair and one that you can easily 
do yourself.  It is also not very expensive.  I have recored around the 
chainplates on my two previous boats.  On our Niagara 26 a very experienced 
boatbuilder (who incidentally purchased and resold a number of C 30-1) showed 
me how to do this.  He routinely did this on boats he was reselling.  My first 
instinct was to just dig out around the chainplates but he used his moisture 
meter and hammer and mapped out the wet areas as approx. 3 ft by 1 ft on each 
side.  The repair was completed and it looked no different than the rest of the 
deck.

The process I used for replacing wet and rotted deck coring is documented on my 
current boat web page.  This was from our J27 “Nut Case”.  I also have a page 
that documents the chainplate area recoring on the same boat but that is not 
currently on the web site and I am having a bit of difficulty connecting to 
upload it.  I will post to this group with a note to you once I get it back on 
the web.  Unfortunately I only have so much space allotted and cannot leave 
everything online.

The link to deck recore replacement can be found on this page 
http://users.eastlink.ca/~mhoyt/j27_index.html  The process for the chainplate 
area is basically the same.

Regards

Mike
Persistence
Halifax, NS
http://users.eastlink.ca/~mhoyt


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of RANDY via 
CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2017 6:48 PM
To: cnc-list
Cc: RANDY
Subject: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

Listers-

We're having a spate of nice weather here in Denver - supposed to be sunny all 
week and 61 degrees tomorrow (yes, in late January / early February).

So today I pulled the chainplates on my 1972 C 30 MK I as part of a planned 
rebedding job (I confirmed leaks down the chainplates last year).  
Unfortunately after removing all old sealant I found some wet and rotten wood 
core material between the outer and inner deck skins around the chainplate 
cutout holes.

Now I want to solicit the list's collective wisdom on how to deal with this the 
right way.  The lazy approach would be to just reinstall the chainplates and 
inject new sealant all around, including into the void between deck skins where 
rotten core came out, butting up against remaining (and possibly still wet) 
core.

On the other hand I've read everything Don Casey has to say about cored deck 
repair.  I could consider removing core around all sides of the cutout, about a 
half-inch back from each edge, using a bent nail chucked into a power drill.  
Then I could fill those voids with thickened epoxy to the edges of the cutout, 
and then re-bed the chainplates.

The extreme end of the spectrum would be to try to map out the area of wet core 
e.g. perhaps from the outboard edge of the chainplate cutout all the way to the 
toe rail, then remove and replace the damaged core.  However that seems like a 
huge and complicated job, and I don't think the wet area is that large.  I 
haven't noticed any softness or squishiness around the chainplates at all, but 
I can percussion-test it carefully.

In the meantime I'm letting those areas dry out by leaving the chainplates out 
and exposing those areas to the dry Colorado air.  I may go pour some acetone 
in those voids too, since Don Casey identifies that as a core-drying technique.

I'm leaning towards the void-filling approach.  What do you think?

Thanks,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO
___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates > Chainplates

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

oh,  and be careful with the volume of epoxy you mix up in one pot.  
larger amounts kick of pretty fast and REALLY hot!!  Ask me how I know 
that!  That same boat had wet deck round a 4" vent somebody installed by 
simply jig sawing the opening and caulking the vent down, the moisture 
got pretty deep too.  That was big void and I mixed what thought was an 
appropriate amount.  that stuff kicked off and almost burned my hands it 
was so hot I had to drop it and it melted the plastic container i was 
using for a pot.  you could mix smaller amounts in separate pots to 
avoid this issue but, it made the deck really hot too.  I think the 
amount I mixxed would have been about a 3rd or maybe a 1/2 of one of 
those plastic quart containers you get at the deli.  (we do dumb things 
sometimes... this is how we learn!!  LOL)


Danny


On 1/30/2017 8:31 AM, Nauset Beach via CnC-List wrote:


Randy,

When I rebed my chainplates 2 years ago – had to dig out the wet balsa 
and replace with epoxy using the chainplates wrapped in wax paper as 
plugs / forms – found the chainplates themselves were quite corroded 
on the back side which was against the bulkhead.  Several of the 
stainless bolts were severely rusted and the chainplates had tiny 
cracks fully through the metal at the bolt holes.  Had new chainplates 
fabricated.


As you are in fresh water it may not be as much of an issue, but if 
your boat lived much of its life in saltwater previously, there may be 
damage to the metal.  Make sure you closely examine the chainplates 
for any corrosion!


Brian

*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*RANDY via CnC-List

*Sent:* Sunday, January 29, 2017 10:05 PM
*To:* cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
*Cc:* RANDY <randy.staff...@comcast.net>
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

Thanks Dennis (and Gary and Sam).  Let me see where I stand on Tuesday 
- I may be ready to epoxy if I can do the bent nail and acetone thing 
tomorrow.  Let's call or text on Tuesday.


Gary - my chainplate covers are aluminum and still in good shape, just 
needed a really good cleaning (probably 44 years' worth of various 
sealant jobs built up on their undersides).


Sam - yes my chainplates bolt to fiberglass "knees" tabbed to the 
hull.  And the chainplates and knees are in good shape - no sign of 
weakening from exposure to moisture.  I just want to make sure I do a 
proper job of sealing it all up so I don't get more coring in the deck 
going forward.  Unfortunately it looks like my boat's previous owners 
didn't do a proper job (e.g. per Don Casey's prescriptions) of keeping 
this area sealed, and a little bit of coring occurred.  The starboard 
side was all gooped up with clear silicone, and the port side had an 
ineffective bead of white caulk around the edge of the cover, and both 
sides had hard-as-rock probably original white-colored sealant under 
those other sealants.


I'll be using polysulfide (Life Caulk) per Don Casey for the 
re-bedding sealant.


Cheers,

Randy



*From: *"Dennis C. via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>

*To: *"cnc-list" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
*Cc: *"Dennis" <capt...@gmail.com <mailto:capt...@gmail.com>>
*Sent: *Sunday, January 29, 2017 4:30:09 PM
*Subject: *Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

Randy,

You're on the right track.  Wish I'd known you were doing that, I 
would have stopped by and taken a peek.  I'm back up in the mountains now.


If it was me, I'd remove the wet core as far back as I could with bent 
nail, etc., dry it with acetone and/or heat gun, tape the area, inject 
some neat epoxy until it was level with the deck, use bent nail to 
agitate it then quickly suck out the epoxy. That will coat the exposed 
surfaces so the thickened epoxy will bond better.  Then I'd inject 
thickened epoxy, let it cure and re-install the chalnplates. Don't 
forget to chamfer the hole so the bedding plate doesn't sit down on a 
square edged cut.


I'm headed back down to the airport Tuesday afternoon. Got to pick up 
my ski buddies Wednesday morning. I might be able to swing by the dry 
storage on the way.


Dennis C.



___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates > Chainplates

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

Hi randy,

It seems you are definitely going in the right direction.  I had a 
problem like this on one of my old boats but, under the bow rail feet.  
I traced out the size of the plate and oped things up a bit with a hole 
saw to give deeper access.  This aloowed me to get a more substantial 
tool in there that the bent nail or allen key. That metod is fine if 
your water intrusion is kind enough to be in a perfect circle that 
exactly the same depth as your nail or allen key.  Otherwise, it gets 
caught, bends, twists, rips the drill out of your hands if your not 
ready for it.  It just isn't really that great in practice, at least it 
wasn't for me.  I ended up, doing the hole saw and got an old screw 
driver, I didn't mind bending, (you could also get some cheapies from 
harbor freight or the like) and started digging.  This also give you a 
better feel for the density of the wood your digging at.  You can 
actually feel the difference between soggy, moist and dry on the screw 
driver.  I then let it sit open for s few weeks.  If you have this 
luxury it would be best.  if not, heat guns and the like work pretty 
good but, I'd say the more time you can allow will be a benefit.  After 
drying, I think you have all the techique you need already offered to 
fill it all back in.


Now, Bedding, I would urge you to read this article by MaineSail from 
compass marine.


http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/rebedding_hardware

This guy is is a bit of a scientist.  he does real world experiments and 
bases his opinions on his findings.  Whenever I have to tackle a new 
project, I go to his site to see if he's done a write up first.  Lots of 
photos and insights and pros and cons to all his recommendations.  I 
have never been disappointed following his techniques.


Danny

On 1/30/2017 8:31 AM, Nauset Beach via CnC-List wrote:


Randy,

When I rebed my chainplates 2 years ago – had to dig out the wet balsa 
and replace with epoxy using the chainplates wrapped in wax paper as 
plugs / forms – found the chainplates themselves were quite corroded 
on the back side which was against the bulkhead.  Several of the 
stainless bolts were severely rusted and the chainplates had tiny 
cracks fully through the metal at the bolt holes.  Had new chainplates 
fabricated.


As you are in fresh water it may not be as much of an issue, but if 
your boat lived much of its life in saltwater previously, there may be 
damage to the metal.  Make sure you closely examine the chainplates 
for any corrosion!


Brian

*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*RANDY via CnC-List

*Sent:* Sunday, January 29, 2017 10:05 PM
*To:* cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
*Cc:* RANDY <randy.staff...@comcast.net>
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

Thanks Dennis (and Gary and Sam).  Let me see where I stand on Tuesday 
- I may be ready to epoxy if I can do the bent nail and acetone thing 
tomorrow.  Let's call or text on Tuesday.


Gary - my chainplate covers are aluminum and still in good shape, just 
needed a really good cleaning (probably 44 years' worth of various 
sealant jobs built up on their undersides).


Sam - yes my chainplates bolt to fiberglass "knees" tabbed to the 
hull.  And the chainplates and knees are in good shape - no sign of 
weakening from exposure to moisture.  I just want to make sure I do a 
proper job of sealing it all up so I don't get more coring in the deck 
going forward.  Unfortunately it looks like my boat's previous owners 
didn't do a proper job (e.g. per Don Casey's prescriptions) of keeping 
this area sealed, and a little bit of coring occurred.  The starboard 
side was all gooped up with clear silicone, and the port side had an 
ineffective bead of white caulk around the edge of the cover, and both 
sides had hard-as-rock probably original white-colored sealant under 
those other sealants.


I'll be using polysulfide (Life Caulk) per Don Casey for the 
re-bedding sealant.


Cheers,

Randy



*From: *"Dennis C. via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>

*To: *"cnc-list" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
*Cc: *"Dennis" <capt...@gmail.com <mailto:capt...@gmail.com>>
*Sent: *Sunday, January 29, 2017 4:30:09 PM
*Subject: *Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

Randy,

You're on the right track.  Wish I'd known you were doing that, I 
would have stopped by and taken a peek.  I'm back up in the mountains now.


If it was me, I'd remove the wet core as far back as I could with bent 
nail, etc., dry it with acetone and/or heat gun, tape the area, inject 
some neat epoxy until it was level with the deck, use bent nail to 
agitate it then quickly suck out the epoxy. That will coat the exposed 
surfaces so the thickened epoxy will bond better.  Then I'd injec

Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates > Chainplates

[Nauset Beach via CnC-List]

Randy,

 

When I rebed my chainplates 2 years ago – had to dig out the wet balsa and 
replace with epoxy using the chainplates wrapped in wax paper as plugs / forms 
– found the chainplates themselves were quite corroded on the back side which 
was against the bulkhead.  Several of the stainless bolts were severely rusted 
and the chainplates had tiny cracks fully through the metal at the bolt holes.  
Had new chainplates fabricated.  

 

As you are in fresh water it may not be as much of an issue, but if your boat 
lived much of its life in saltwater previously, there may be damage to the 
metal.  Make sure you closely examine the chainplates for any corrosion!  

 

Brian

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of RANDY via 
CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2017 10:05 PM
To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: RANDY <randy.staff...@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

 

Thanks Dennis (and Gary and Sam).  Let me see where I stand on Tuesday - I may 
be ready to epoxy if I can do the bent nail and acetone thing tomorrow.  Let's 
call or text on Tuesday.

 

Gary - my chainplate covers are aluminum and still in good shape, just needed a 
really good cleaning (probably 44 years' worth of various sealant jobs built up 
on their undersides).

 

Sam - yes my chainplates bolt to fiberglass "knees" tabbed to the hull.  And 
the chainplates and knees are in good shape - no sign of weakening from 
exposure to moisture.  I just want to make sure I do a proper job of sealing it 
all up so I don't get more coring in the deck going forward.  Unfortunately it 
looks like my boat's previous owners didn't do a proper job (e.g. per Don 
Casey's prescriptions) of keeping this area sealed, and a little bit of coring 
occurred.  The starboard side was all gooped up with clear silicone, and the 
port side had an ineffective bead of white caulk around the edge of the cover, 
and both sides had hard-as-rock probably original white-colored sealant under 
those other sealants.

 

I'll be using polysulfide (Life Caulk) per Don Casey for the re-bedding sealant.

 

Cheers,

Randy

 

  _  

From: "Dennis C. via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
To: "cnc-list" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Cc: "Dennis" <capt...@gmail.com <mailto:capt...@gmail.com> >
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2017 4:30:09 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

 

Randy,

 

You're on the right track.  Wish I'd known you were doing that, I would have 
stopped by and taken a peek.  I'm back up in the mountains now.

 

If it was me, I'd remove the wet core as far back as I could with bent nail, 
etc., dry it with acetone and/or heat gun, tape the area, inject some neat 
epoxy until it was level with the deck, use bent nail to agitate it then 
quickly suck out the epoxy.  That will coat the exposed surfaces so the 
thickened epoxy will bond better.  Then I'd inject thickened epoxy, let it cure 
and re-install the chalnplates.  Don't forget to chamfer the hole so the 
bedding plate doesn't sit down on a square edged cut.

 

I'm headed back down to the airport Tuesday afternoon.  Got to pick up my ski 
buddies Wednesday morning. I might be able to swing by the dry storage on the 
way.

 

Dennis C.

 

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

[John Rand via CnC-List]

Hi Randy,

I've been thinking about this myself.

I have a 35 Mk II, which came out of the egg in 1974.  It was not well
cared for.

When I examined the chain plates, everything looked OK.  But I decided to
remove them anyway, as there was some leaking, just as you have.  When I
went to remove the ss bolts, they twisted off in the wrench, completely
rusted through inside the fiberglass knees - a possible dismasting waiting
to happen!

I did follow the Don Casey prescription of digging out about a half inch of
core where the chain plate goes through the deck, filled the hole with
thickened resin and sealed the aluminum cover with 3M 4000.  This fixed the
leaks.  However, I'm not absolutely positive this was the right thing to
do.  I think what I should have done was to drill test holes around the
suspect area, and then removed the top layer of fiberglass, and replaced
the core.  I think the real problem is that once moisture gets into the
core, it has no way to get out, and will eventually travel.  I don't know
if I had thought about that at the time.  Maybe I just didn't want to think
about it!

John
C 35 MkII
Wit's End

St. Petersburg FL

On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 7:52 AM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> If you don't have a bent nail, an Allen wrench works as well.
>
> Andy
> C 40
> Peregrine
>
> Andrew Burton
> 61 W Narragansett
> Newport, RI
> USA02840
>
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
> +401 965-5260
>
> On Jan 29, 2017, at 22:05, RANDY via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> wrote:
>
> Thanks Dennis (and Gary and Sam).  Let me see where I stand on Tuesday - I
> may be ready to epoxy if I can do the bent nail and acetone thing
> tomorrow.  Let's call or text on Tuesday.
>
> Gary - my chainplate covers are aluminum and still in good shape, just
> needed a really good cleaning (probably 44 years' worth of various sealant
> jobs built up on their undersides).
>
> Sam - yes my chainplates bolt to fiberglass "knees" tabbed to the hull.
> And the chainplates and knees are in good shape - no sign of weakening from
> exposure to moisture.  I just want to make sure I do a proper job of
> sealing it all up so I don't get more coring in the deck going forward.
> Unfortunately it looks like my boat's previous owners didn't do a proper
> job (e.g. per Don Casey's prescriptions) of keeping this area sealed, and a
> little bit of coring occurred.  The starboard side was all gooped up with
> clear silicone, and the port side had an ineffective bead of white caulk
> around the edge of the cover, and both sides had hard-as-rock probably
> original white-colored sealant under those other sealants.
>
> I'll be using polysulfide (Life Caulk) per Don Casey for the re-bedding
> sealant.
>
> Cheers,
> Randy
>
> --
> *From: *"Dennis C. via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> *To: *"cnc-list" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> *Cc: *"Dennis" <capt...@gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Sunday, January 29, 2017 4:30:09 PM
> *Subject: *Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates
>
> Randy,
>
> You're on the right track.  Wish I'd known you were doing that, I would
> have stopped by and taken a peek.  I'm back up in the mountains now.
>
> If it was me, I'd remove the wet core as far back as I could with bent
> nail, etc., dry it with acetone and/or heat gun, tape the area, inject some
> neat epoxy until it was level with the deck, use bent nail to agitate it
> then quickly suck out the epoxy.  That will coat the exposed surfaces so
> the thickened epoxy will bond better.  Then I'd inject thickened epoxy, let
> it cure and re-install the chalnplates.  Don't forget to chamfer the hole
> so the bedding plate doesn't sit down on a square edged cut.
>
> I'm headed back down to the airport Tuesday afternoon.  Got to pick up my
> ski buddies Wednesday morning. I might be able to swing by the dry storage
> on the way.
>
> Dennis C.
>
> On Jan 29, 2017 3:48 PM, "RANDY via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> wrote:
>
> Listers-
>
> We're having a spate of nice weather here in Denver - supposed to be sunny
> all week and 61 degrees tomorrow (yes, in late January / early February).
>
> So today I pulled the chainplates on my 1972 C 30 MK I as part of a
> planned rebedding job (I confirmed leaks down the chainplates last year).
> Unfortunately after removing all old sealant I found some wet and rotten
> wood core material between the outer and inner deck skins around the
> chainplate cutout holes.
>
> Now I want to solicit the list's collective wisdom on how to deal with
> this the right way.  The lazy approach would be to just reinstall the
> cha

Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

[RANDY via CnC-List]

Thanks Dennis (and Gary and Sam). Let me see where I stand on Tuesday - I may 
be ready to epoxy if I can do the bent nail and acetone thing tomorrow. Let's 
call or text on Tuesday. 

Gary - my chainplate covers are aluminum and still in good shape, just needed a 
really good cleaning (probably 44 years' worth of various sealant jobs built up 
on their undersides). 

Sam - yes my chainplates bolt to fiberglass "knees" tabbed to the hull. And the 
chainplates and knees are in good shape - no sign of weakening from exposure to 
moisture. I just want to make sure I do a proper job of sealing it all up so I 
don't get more coring in the deck going forward. Unfortunately it looks like my 
boat's previous owners didn't do a proper job (e.g. per Don Casey's 
prescriptions) of keeping this area sealed, and a little bit of coring 
occurred. The starboard side was all gooped up with clear silicone, and the 
port side had an ineffective bead of white caulk around the edge of the cover, 
and both sides had hard-as-rock probably original white-colored sealant under 
those other sealants. 

I'll be using polysulfide (Life Caulk) per Don Casey for the re-bedding 
sealant. 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Dennis C. via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
To: "cnc-list" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: "Dennis" <capt...@gmail.com> 
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2017 4:30:09 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates 

Randy, 

You're on the right track. Wish I'd known you were doing that, I would have 
stopped by and taken a peek. I'm back up in the mountains now. 

If it was me, I'd remove the wet core as far back as I could with bent nail, 
etc., dry it with acetone and/or heat gun, tape the area, inject some neat 
epoxy until it was level with the deck, use bent nail to agitate it then 
quickly suck out the epoxy. That will coat the exposed surfaces so the 
thickened epoxy will bond better. Then I'd inject thickened epoxy, let it cure 
and re-install the chalnplates. Don't forget to chamfer the hole so the bedding 
plate doesn't sit down on a square edged cut. 

I'm headed back down to the airport Tuesday afternoon. Got to pick up my ski 
buddies Wednesday morning. I might be able to swing by the dry storage on the 
way. 

Dennis C. 

On Jan 29, 2017 3:48 PM, "RANDY via CnC-List" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: 



Listers- 

We're having a spate of nice weather here in Denver - supposed to be sunny all 
week and 61 degrees tomorrow (yes, in late January / early February). 

So today I pulled the chainplates on my 1972 C 30 MK I as part of a planned 
rebedding job (I confirmed leaks down the chainplates last year). Unfortunately 
after removing all old sealant I found some wet and rotten wood core material 
between the outer and inner deck skins around the chainplate cutout holes. 

Now I want to solicit the list's collective wisdom on how to deal with this the 
right way. The lazy approach would be to just reinstall the chainplates and 
inject new sealant all around, including into the void between deck skins where 
rotten core came out, butting up against remaining (and possibly still wet) 
core. 

On the other hand I've read everything Don Casey has to say about cored deck 
repair. I could consider removing core around all sides of the cutout, about a 
half-inch back from each edge, using a bent nail chucked into a power drill. 
Then I could fill those voids with thickened epoxy to the edges of the cutout, 
and then re-bed the chainplates. 

The extreme end of the spectrum would be to try to map out the area of wet core 
e.g. perhaps from the outboard edge of the chainplate cutout all the way to the 
toe rail, then remove and replace the damaged core. However that seems like a 
huge and complicated job, and I don't think the wet area is that large. I 
haven't noticed any softness or squishiness around the chainplates at all, but 
I can percussion-test it carefully. 

In the meantime I'm letting those areas dry out by leaving the chainplates out 
and exposing those areas to the dry Colorado air. I may go pour some acetone in 
those voids too, since Don Casey identifies that as a core-drying technique. 

I'm leaning towards the void-filling approach. What do you think? 

Thanks, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C 30-1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 

___ 

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 

All Contributions are greatly appreciated! 






___ 

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 

All Contributions are greatly appreciated! 

___

Th

Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

[Sam Salter via CnC-List]

  I think the void filling approach is right.If your chainplates are the same as mine, they are actually mounted proper to bulkhead(s) inside the boat. The deck you are looking at is not supporting any part of the mast; it's all being supported through the bulkhead. It's just a cover to keep the rain out!However, the void fill would still bring the deck back to "new" condition. (Unless there was substantial rot going back well into the deck away from the hole) sam :-)C 26 ‎ Liquorice Ghost Lake Alberta From: RANDY via CnC-ListSent: Sunday, January 29, 2017 3:48 PMTo: cnc-listReply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.comCc: RANDYSubject: Stus-List Deck Coring Around ChainplatesListers-We're having a spate of nice weather here in Denver - supposed to be sunny all week and 61 degrees tomorrow (yes, in late January / early February).So today I pulled the chainplates on my 1972 C 30 MK I as part of a planned rebedding job (I confirmed leaks down the chainplates last year).  Unfortunately after removing all old sealant I found some wet and rotten wood core material between the outer and inner deck skins around the chainplate cutout holes.Now I want to solicit the list's collective wisdom on how to deal with this the right way.  The lazy approach would be to just reinstall the chainplates and inject new sealant all around, including into the void between deck skins where rotten core came out, butting up against remaining (and possibly still wet) core.On the other hand I've read everything Don Casey has to say about cored deck repair.  I could consider removing core around all sides of the cutout, about a half-inch back from each edge, using a bent nail chucked into a power drill.  Then I could fill those voids with thickened epoxy to the edges of the cutout, and then re-bed the chainplates.The extreme end of the spectrum would be to try to map out the area of wet core e.g. perhaps from the outboard edge of the chainplate cutout all the way to the toe rail, then remove and replace the damaged core.  However that seems like a huge and complicated job, and I don't think the wet area is that large.  I haven't noticed any softness or squishiness around the chainplates at all, but I can percussion-test it carefully.In the meantime I'm letting those areas dry out by leaving the chainplates out and exposing those areas to the dry Colorado air.  I may go pour some acetone in those voids too, since Don Casey identifies that as a core-drying technique.I'm leaning towards the void-filling approach.  What do you think?Thanks,Randy StaffordS/V GrenadineC 30-1 #7Ken Caryl, CO

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Randy,

You're on the right track.  Wish I'd known you were doing that, I would
have stopped by and taken a peek.  I'm back up in the mountains now.

If it was me, I'd remove the wet core as far back as I could with bent
nail, etc., dry it with acetone and/or heat gun, tape the area, inject some
neat epoxy until it was level with the deck, use bent nail to agitate it
then quickly suck out the epoxy.  That will coat the exposed surfaces so
the thickened epoxy will bond better.  Then I'd inject thickened epoxy, let
it cure and re-install the chalnplates.  Don't forget to chamfer the hole
so the bedding plate doesn't sit down on a square edged cut.

I'm headed back down to the airport Tuesday afternoon.  Got to pick up my
ski buddies Wednesday morning. I might be able to swing by the dry storage
on the way.

Dennis C.

On Jan 29, 2017 3:48 PM, "RANDY via CnC-List"  wrote:

Listers-

We're having a spate of nice weather here in Denver - supposed to be sunny
all week and 61 degrees tomorrow (yes, in late January / early February).

So today I pulled the chainplates on my 1972 C 30 MK I as part of a
planned rebedding job (I confirmed leaks down the chainplates last year).
Unfortunately after removing all old sealant I found some wet and rotten
wood core material between the outer and inner deck skins around the
chainplate cutout holes.

Now I want to solicit the list's collective wisdom on how to deal with this
the right way.  The lazy approach would be to just reinstall the
chainplates and inject new sealant all around, including into the void
between deck skins where rotten core came out, butting up against remaining
(and possibly still wet) core.

On the other hand I've read everything Don Casey has to say about cored
deck repair.  I could consider removing core around all sides of the
cutout, about a half-inch back from each edge, using a bent nail chucked
into a power drill.  Then I could fill those voids with thickened epoxy to
the edges of the cutout, and then re-bed the chainplates.

The extreme end of the spectrum would be to try to map out the area of wet
core e.g. perhaps from the outboard edge of the chainplate cutout all the
way to the toe rail, then remove and replace the damaged core.  However
that seems like a huge and complicated job, and I don't think the wet area
is that large.  I haven't noticed any softness or squishiness around the
chainplates at all, but I can percussion-test it carefully.

In the meantime I'm letting those areas dry out by leaving the chainplates
out and exposing those areas to the dry Colorado air.  I may go pour some
acetone in those voids too, since Don Casey identifies that as a
core-drying technique.

I'm leaning towards the void-filling approach.  What do you think?

Thanks,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

[Gary Nylander via CnC-List]

I used the void filling technique. Also built new covers as mine were plastic 
and cracked.

 

Gary

#593

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of RANDY via 
CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2017 5:48 PM
To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: RANDY <randy.staff...@comcast.net>
Subject: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

 

Listers-

 

We're having a spate of nice weather here in Denver - supposed to be sunny all 
week and 61 degrees tomorrow (yes, in late January / early February).

 

So today I pulled the chainplates on my 1972 C 30 MK I as part of a planned 
rebedding job (I confirmed leaks down the chainplates last year).  
Unfortunately after removing all old sealant I found some wet and rotten wood 
core material between the outer and inner deck skins around the chainplate 
cutout holes.

 

Now I want to solicit the list's collective wisdom on how to deal with this the 
right way.  The lazy approach would be to just reinstall the chainplates and 
inject new sealant all around, including into the void between deck skins where 
rotten core came out, butting up against remaining (and possibly still wet) 
core.

 

On the other hand I've read everything Don Casey has to say about cored deck 
repair.  I could consider removing core around all sides of the cutout, about a 
half-inch back from each edge, using a bent nail chucked into a power drill.  
Then I could fill those voids with thickened epoxy to the edges of the cutout, 
and then re-bed the chainplates.

 

The extreme end of the spectrum would be to try to map out the area of wet core 
e.g. perhaps from the outboard edge of the chainplate cutout all the way to the 
toe rail, then remove and replace the damaged core.  However that seems like a 
huge and complicated job, and I don't think the wet area is that large.  I 
haven't noticed any softness or squishiness around the chainplates at all, but 
I can percussion-test it carefully.

 

In the meantime I'm letting those areas dry out by leaving the chainplates out 
and exposing those areas to the dry Colorado air.  I may go pour some acetone 
in those voids too, since Don Casey identifies that as a core-drying technique.

 

I'm leaning towards the void-filling approach.  What do you think?

 

Thanks,

Randy Stafford

S/V Grenadine

C 30-1 #7

Ken Caryl, CO

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

[RANDY via CnC-List]

Listers- 

We're having a spate of nice weather here in Denver - supposed to be sunny all 
week and 61 degrees tomorrow (yes, in late January / early February). 

So today I pulled the chainplates on my 1972 C 30 MK I as part of a planned 
rebedding job (I confirmed leaks down the chainplates last year). Unfortunately 
after removing all old sealant I found some wet and rotten wood core material 
between the outer and inner deck skins around the chainplate cutout holes. 

Now I want to solicit the list's collective wisdom on how to deal with this the 
right way. The lazy approach would be to just reinstall the chainplates and 
inject new sealant all around, including into the void between deck skins where 
rotten core came out, butting up against remaining (and possibly still wet) 
core. 

On the other hand I've read everything Don Casey has to say about cored deck 
repair. I could consider removing core around all sides of the cutout, about a 
half-inch back from each edge, using a bent nail chucked into a power drill. 
Then I could fill those voids with thickened epoxy to the edges of the cutout, 
and then re-bed the chainplates. 

The extreme end of the spectrum would be to try to map out the area of wet core 
e.g. perhaps from the outboard edge of the chainplate cutout all the way to the 
toe rail, then remove and replace the damaged core. However that seems like a 
huge and complicated job, and I don't think the wet area is that large. I 
haven't noticed any softness or squishiness around the chainplates at all, but 
I can percussion-test it carefully. 

In the meantime I'm letting those areas dry out by leaving the chainplates out 
and exposing those areas to the dry Colorado air. I may go pour some acetone in 
those voids too, since Don Casey identifies that as a core-drying technique. 

I'm leaning towards the void-filling approach. What do you think? 

Thanks, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C 30-1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!