Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

The transfer policy makes sense. AFRINIC should facilitate considerable latitude and agency for resource members to determine their own risks involved and whether to continue or not. Ratify the existing consensus Resource Transfer Policy. -Brian ___

Re: [Community-Discuss] ICANN / fake news

Well put well put Ronald. You spelt it out clearly. I hope they have listened well. Sent from my iPhone > On 2 Aug 2021, at 04:48, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: > > In message <19166b87-4f3a-446c-8863-b2d39c28f...@delong.com>, > Owen DeLong wrote: > >> While people often mistake ICANN for

Re: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments

Hello Ronald, I totally agree with you. One company, one man suffocating the life and bloodline of our way of life as we know it. Internet number resources are what we pride our today in. It’s survival, it’s everything. Some company can’t disrupt that course really. Like you clearly said, at

[Community-Discuss] Larus

In message Lamiaa Chnayti wrote: >Attention Noah: I take note of your constant obsession with Larus... Please take note of mine also. Larus *is* Cloud Innovation and vise versa. To deny that is to deny simple reality. (Please google for the Japanese word "keiretsu".) Like Noah and a lot of

[Community-Discuss] Resource Transfer Policy

In message , Ibeanusi Elvis ? wrote: >The idea of implementing the resource transfer policy not only gives the >resource members the right to choose but it protects them from the risk of >being entangled in the situations that the AFRINIC has found themselves in. >This transfer policy has reached

[Community-Discuss] The "rights" of Cloud Innovation

In message <6462fac5-01d2-4121-80d7-1765a65dc...@delong.com>, Owen DeLong wrote: >OK, for the sake of argument, what would you have AFRINIC do to ensure >the protection of Cloud Innovations rights in that process? Cloud Innovation's legal rights in the case of a breach of the terms of the RSA

[Community-Discuss] ICANN / fake news

In message <19166b87-4f3a-446c-8863-b2d39c28f...@delong.com>, Owen DeLong wrote: >While people often mistake ICANN for some form of authority, the reality is >that for number >resources, ICANN is a puppet at the end of the strings pulled by the NRO If thing go as you & Lu clearly hope it

Re: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments

In message Christian Orozco wrote: >Owen said, the CORRECTION of behavior is what's being sought. I also have many outstanding quarrels with AFRINIC and I also fervently desire to see the organization's behavior be corrected. But I do not pursue these goals either at the point of a gun, or

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

In message Christian Orozco wrote: >First of all, no one here wants AFRINIC to perish. I'm sorry, but you are just simply wrong about that. >Describing something as "shady" does not directly put one side into a >bad light, it's just that Yes, it does, and that is intentional. >If only there

Re: [Community-Discuss] [ripe-list] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

In message Lamiaa Chnayti wrote: >Well yes, because at some point, AFRINIC will most likely find itself in >the obligation to ask for staff support from other RIRs... And the evidence for this wild contention is? Note: Wishful thinking on your part doesn't count as "evidence". Regards, rfg

Re: [Community-Discuss] [apnic-talk] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

In message <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157...@africaoncloud.net>, Paul Wollner wrote: >In the interest of internet continuity, another RIR should help AFRINIC (by >staff or infrastructure), to perform it's core registration services >function for the time being, until all AFRINIC

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

Hi Noah, Your interpretation on this is wrong. Read my detailed email a few days ago. 11.4 Allows the Board to define any policy regarding Internet Resources that they believe is urgently needed. This can be implemented ASAP the Board decides. The Board MUST also send the policy

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

Not at all - I quote: In the event that such a policy submitted by the Board is not endorsed, the said policy shall not be enforced or implemented following its non-endorsement; however, any action taken in terms of the policy prior to such non-endorsement shall remain valid. This clearly

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

On Mon, 2 Aug 2021, 00:06 Andrew Alston, wrote: > This is incorrect and in line actually with what I said - > Nop > >1. Any policy adopted by the Board under the provisions of Article11.4 >shall be submitted to the community for endorsement at the next public >policy meeting. > >

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

And for clarity, no RIR (including RIPE NCC) used voting for matters that belong to PDP decisions. I think there is some confusion here, may be something taken out of context, not sure what is the issue, but a PDP matter that is decided by consensus hasn’t been decided by members voting.

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

This is incorrect and in line actually with what I said - 11.4) Notwithstanding the provisions of Article 11.3 above, the Board may adopt such policies regarding the management of internet number resources where it considers that the same is necessary and urgent, having regard to the proper

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

Hi Owen, I need to disagree with some of your points here. The transfer proposal was wrongly managed by the chairs, I’m convinced that they did in good faith. A proposal, can’t return once and again with non-editorial changes to the discussion and sustain the consensus decision.

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

Hi Andrew, On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 11:30 PM Andrew Alston < andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com> wrote: > > > > It remains Andrew's personal opinion and not the consensus of 75% of the > membership base. > > Can I suggest as a compromise position we then test this theory by putting > the question of

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

> On 1 Aug 2021, at 20:49, Lamiaa Chnayti wrote: > > Attention Noah: I take note of your constant obsession with Larus, but > seriously man, are you in some way related to them or a stakeholder in > something against them? Just wondering since this obsession of yours seems > very personal..

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

https://afrinic.net/policy/appeal-committee?lang=en#appeals On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 22:46 Owen DeLong, wrote: > > > On Aug 1, 2021, at 12:21 , Noah wrote: > > > > On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 20:47 Owen DeLong, wrote: > >> >> >> On Aug 1, 2021, at 06:06 , Noah wrote: >> >> >> On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 15:43

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

> It remains Andrew's personal opinion and not the consensus of 75% of the > membership base. Can I suggest as a compromise position we then test this theory by putting the question of transfers to a member vote passed or failed by simple majority? This worked for ripe with rpki when they

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 22:50 Lamiaa Chnayti, wrote: > Attention Noah: I take note of your constant obsession with Larus, but > seriously man, are you in some way related to them > Nop but you do based on public records. or a stakeholder in something against them? > Just wondering since this

[Community-Discuss] The Contract

Dear AfriNIC's Community, Please see my comments below, inline... Le dim. 1 août 2021 à 5:53 PM, Noah a écrit : > Hi Sylvain, > Hi Noah, Thanks for your email, brother. > On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 4:19 AM Sylvain Baya wrote: > >> Dear AfriNIC's Community, >> >> Le vendredi 30 juillet 2021,

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

Attention Noah: I take note of your constant obsession with Larus, but seriously man, are you in some way related to them or a stakeholder in something against them? Just wondering since this obsession of yours seems very personal.. Also, allow me to remind you that the board you are referring to

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

> On Aug 1, 2021, at 12:21 , Noah wrote: > > > > On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 20:47 Owen DeLong, > wrote: > > >> On Aug 1, 2021, at 06:06 , Noah mailto:n...@neo.co.tz>> >> wrote: >> >> >> On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 15:43 Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss, >>

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 20:47 Owen DeLong, wrote: > > > On Aug 1, 2021, at 06:06 , Noah wrote: > > > On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 15:43 Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss, < > community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote: > >> >> Let those who wish to run the risks of staying with AfriNIC through this >> situation

Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments

La chine fait son Internet privé et vous n’aurez jamais accès à certains de leurs ressources ! Le big players comme Facebook ou Google se sont pliés à leurs règles ou étaient votre notion d’internet mondial? Bien cordialement Le dim. 1 août 2021 à 14:06, Lamiaa Chnayti a écrit : > Permettez-moi

Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments

Merci Arnaud! Le dim. 1 août 2021 à 15:48, Arnaud AMELINA a écrit : > Erreur d'interprétation de la notion de souveraineté numérique. Cette > souveraineté s'applique au contenu pas au support. Les ressources critiques > que gère Afrinic sont destinés à un usage Africain, pour la région >

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

Attention: Lamiaa , Malupa, Joshua, Yas, Elvis, ... I take note of your echos and allow me to remind you all that... On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 21:09 Ibeanusi Elvis, wrote: > > This transfer policy has reached a consensus and > The PDWG disputed the declaration of the said consensus by submitting to

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

On 01/08/2021 20:54, Owen DeLong wrote: >> On Aug 1, 2021, at 08:27 , Frank Habicht wrote: >> I think Cloud Innovation dropping all lawsuits would have the same >> effect, and that is the way I would like to suggest. > > OK, for the sake of argument, what would you have AFRINIC do to ensure the

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

Hello community, The idea of implementing the resource transfer policy not only gives the resource members the right to choose but it protects them from the risk of being entangled in the situations that the AFRINIC has found themselves in. This transfer policy has reached a consensus and

Re: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments

> On Jul 31, 2021, at 23:10 , Noah wrote: > > > On Sat, 31 Jul 2021, 21:52 Owen DeLong, > wrote: > > Had AFRINIC stuck to its governing documents as written, rather than choosing > to invent restrictions which are not codified therein > > I refer you to the Resource

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

> On Aug 1, 2021, at 08:27 , Frank Habicht wrote: > > Hi, > > On 01/08/2021 17:54, Thizwilondi Malupa wrote: >> Hi Robert , >> >> I think Andrew made a very good point, despite your argument that he is >> pushing for the transfer policy for some other reasons. Passing a >> transfer policy

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

> On Aug 1, 2021, at 06:06 , Noah wrote: > > > On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 15:43 Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss, > mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net>> wrote: > > Let those who wish to run the risks of staying with AfriNIC through this > situation do so > - let those who choose not to

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

Unfortunately, the problem here is the definition of “powers that be”… There are very few powers that be for dealing with a situation where an RIR’s board and/or management run amok and contrary to the rules which govern them. The NRO cannot make any significant action without the unanimous

Re: [Community-Discuss] [ripe-list] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

On 01/08/2021 14:58, Lamiaa Chnayti wrote: > ... There’s too much to risk > if we don’t get any help from another RIR as soon as possible.. I have a question about the "we". How would any non-functioning of any AfriNIC service affect you or any employer of yours? [other than the ability to post

Re: [Community-Discuss] The Contract

Hi Sylvain, On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 4:19 AM Sylvain Baya wrote: > Dear AfriNIC's Community, > > Le vendredi 30 juillet 2021, Ronald F. Guilmette > a écrit : > >> In message < >> 17af40726bd.c1a468ac340728.5536230081885576...@africaoncloud.net>, >> Paul Wollner wrote: >> >> >I for one call that

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

Hi, first the part from the end that prompted me to respond... > In fact I find the amount of legal posturing on this > list to be nothing short of bizarre - let the courts do their work - - how dare you use the singular I expected 2 lists, but then saw many more (which I'm not

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

+1 Joshua Regards, Houssain Yas Le dim. 1 août 2021 à 16:30, Erick Joshua Lagon a écrit : > The implementation of the resource transfer policy ( > https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-v4-003-d4#details) would > enable AFRINIC to reduce the risks in case their situation goes sideways.

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 6:33 PM Erick Joshua Lagon wrote: > The implementation of the resource transfer policy ( > https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-v4-003-d4#details) would > enable AFRINIC to reduce the risks in case their situation goes sideways. > That resource transfer policy is

Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments

Erreur d'interprétation de la notion de souveraineté numérique. Cette souveraineté s'applique au contenu pas au support. Les ressources critiques que gère Afrinic sont destinés à un usage Africain, pour la région africaine. Mais les contenus peuvent être visibles de partout (accessibilité

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

Andrew, Andrew, Andrew, Tu reste égal à toi même, tu changeras apparemment jamais, pour devenir un peu plus sage. Cette proposition ne me surprend pas du tout car tu fais partie des amis du patron de CI, tu étais au bord quand l'autorisation de lui attribuer les ressources supplémentaires, tu

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

Hi, On 01/08/2021 17:54, Thizwilondi Malupa wrote: > Hi Robert ,  > > I think Andrew made a very good point, despite your argument that he is > pushing for the  transfer  policy for some other reasons. Passing a > transfer policy would  by all means reduce the risk of having AFRINIC > badly

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

The implementation of the resource transfer policy ( https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-v4-003-d4#details) would enable AFRINIC to reduce the risks in case their situation goes sideways. However, I do not agree with an emergency policy when a transfer policy is awaiting implementation.

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

Hi Robert , I think Andrew made a very good point, despite your argument that he is pushing for the transfer policy for some other reasons. Passing a transfer policy would by all means reduce the risk of having AFRINIC badly affected entirely , including this community . And I think if we

Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments

Permettez-moi de rectifier qu'il ne s'agit pas de souveraineté numérique africaine, mais plutôt de connectivité mondiale. Internet est global. Étant moi-même africaine, s'il existe une telle chose appelée souveraineté numérique africaine, je suppose qu'il existe des choses comme la souveraineté

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

Typical of Andrew about transfer of rights. He clearly knows what he would use such transfer policy for. Glad rightful thinking members of African Internet community understand the baits RF Sent from my iPhone > On 1 Aug 2021, at 15:44, Lamiaa Chnayti wrote: > >  > It makes absolute

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

It makes absolute sense to pass a resource transfer policy that gives the resource members the option of not getting dragged along the risky mess AFRINIC is putting them through. But I don’t see the necessity of passing an emergency policy when we already have a resource transfer policy that has

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd->community-dsicuss] Last Call - RPKI ROAs for Unallocated and Unassigned AFRINIC Address Space AFPUB-2019-GEN-006-DRAFT03.

On 31 Jul 2021, at 22:02, Owen DeLong wrote: On Jul 31, 2021, at 03:58 , Nishal Goburdhan wrote: So your claim is [i usually don’t post here, but i’d like to clear up one thing]: no owen. that is not my claim. what i said (which you inadvertently seemed to have snipped) was that this is

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 16:11 Andrew Alston, wrote: > Hi Noah, > Hi Andrew > Unfortunately an inbound transfer policy does not in any way shape or form > mitigate the risks articulated in the TISPA, ISPA-ZA or Mauritian press > statements by AfriNIC. > My point for that link was to remind you

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

Hi Noah, Unfortunately an inbound transfer policy does not in any way shape or form mitigate the risks articulated in the TISPA, ISPA-ZA or Mauritian press statements by AfriNIC. It is my belief that members should be permitted to transfer away from the risks articulated should they feel such

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

Even if a transfer policy is adopted, *before* any transfer AFRINIC has the right to verify the resources are being used according to the policies, RSA, documentation/justification provided when it was allocated/assigned, etc., etc. If the resources don’t follow the rules, the RIR (not just

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 15:43 Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss, < community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote: > > Let those who wish to run the risks of staying with AfriNIC through this > situation do so > - let those who choose not to accept the risk profile transfer out - > problem solved. >

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

Thank you @andrew. > It is my (personal) view that AfriNIC board should exercise their powers and > pass a transfer policy - point 2 > On Aug 1, 2021, at 13:38, Andrew Alston > wrote: > >  > It is my (personal) view that AfriNIC board should exercise their powers and > pass a transfer

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

It is my (personal) view that AfriNIC board should exercise their powers and pass a transfer policy. Let those who wish to run the risks of staying with AfriNIC through this situation do so - let those who choose not to accept the risk profile transfer out - problem solved. It is entirely

Re: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments

I participate in these discussions knowing there will be others whose points will differ from mine and I respect that. I cannot tag them as 'senseless' or just some people who 'force' their thoughts just because I cannot make them be on my side. Moreover, there are many ways of supporting AFRINIC.

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

First of all, no one here wants AFRINIC to perish. Let's just be clear on that. All of us here, in this discussion, understand the mission and the important duties of AFRINIC very well. However, if AFRINIC needs to get back to its feet first, doesn't a more capable entity be more beneficial to

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

Good day all, I think paul made some sense in his first statement (tho the statement has been watered down now). If afrinic is in a financial fix or in a state where it is tending towards a financial situation where it can no longer perform its duties, it is only right to start weighing all

Re: [Community-Discuss] [ripe-list] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

Well yes, because at some point, AFRINIC will most likely find itself in the obligation to ask for staff support from other RIRs to maintain its operations, but probably until it’s too late. There’s too much to risk if we don’t get any help from another RIR as soon as possible.. Le dim. 1 août

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

Hello community I think I  misused the word “take over” to spike some unfortunate sentiments. Let me try this again: In the interest of internet continuity, another RIR should help AFRINIC (by staff or infrastructure), to perform it’s core registration service function for the time

[Community-Discuss] Case Closed

In message <2bce246d-270a-4c5a-bb1e-40441776e...@delong.com>, Owen DeLong wrote: >Had AFRINIC stuck to its governing documents as written... Objection your honor! Irrelevant and immaterial. Despite all pretenses to the contrary on the part of Plaintiff, and despite Plaintiff's repeated

Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments

Dear Noah. Congratulations for your action on african digital sovregnity! I am very Proud of your actions. You have our support. Best = Dr Ousmane Ly Consultant en Santé Publique, Globale/Mondiale, Digitale/Numérique et Connectée Tel Mobile : +223 76

Re: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments

On Sat, 31 Jul 2021, 21:52 Owen DeLong, wrote: > > Had AFRINIC stuck to its governing documents as written, rather than > choosing > to invent restrictions which are not codified therein I refer you to the Resource Services Agreement Section 4(c)(i) whose wordings are totally clear and