Re: [computer-go] Re: Open source real time Go server

2010-01-18 Thread Michael Williams
Even though KGS is not open, you can still reverse engineer it, right? Why not create an accessible web interface to KGS? terry mcintyre wrote: If accessibility is the only criterion, a client would do the trick; it would need an open protocol. It's been a bit of an inconvenience that KGS

Re: [computer-go] Re: Open source real time Go server

2010-01-18 Thread Michael Williams
Your point is obvious but that's a horrible proof since there are usually more than one legal moves from which to chose (that means it takes more time). steve uurtamo wrote: As for other things we'd like to see improved, we could build a list. My pet peeve is the KGS score estimator, which is

Re: [computer-go] Paper about Mogo's Opening Strategy

2010-01-15 Thread Michael Williams
I'd like to read it, but that link doesn't work for me. Is it correct? Brian Sheppard wrote: I recommend the paper http://hal.inria.fr/docs/00/36/97/83/PDF/ouvertures9x9.pdf by the Mogo team, which describes how to use a grid to compute Mogo's opening book using coevolution. Brian

Re: [computer-go] Paper about Mogo's Opening Strategy

2010-01-15 Thread Michael Williams
Never mind, the problem was on my side. Michael Williams wrote: I'd like to read it, but that link doesn't work for me. Is it correct? Brian Sheppard wrote: I recommend the paper http://hal.inria.fr/docs/00/36/97/83/PDF/ouvertures9x9.pdf by the Mogo team, which describes how to use a grid

Re: [computer-go] GoChild Web2.0 is live on Google AppEngine

2009-12-29 Thread Michael Williams
Can you tell us English speakers anything about it? 幼儿围棋 wrote: Hi All, GoChild is designed for learning how to play Go efficiently. Web App - http://gochild2009.appspot.com Official site - http://www.gochildgame.com Regards, gosharplite

Re: [computer-go] GoChild Web2.0 is live on Google AppEngine

2009-12-29 Thread Michael Williams
Darren Cook wrote: GoChild is designed for learning how to play Go efficiently. Here is the English link for Michael :-) http://www.gochildgame.com/en/index.htm Thanks! I know how his wife feels -- I'm also still trying to figure out what to do after Ko is created :/

Re: [computer-go] Fuego 04 native Windows

2009-12-17 Thread Michael Williams
Jacques, It has been some time since you made this. Did you have to make changes to any of the original Fuego files? I'm asking because I'm trying to figure out what would go wrong if I dumped current Fuego files into the Windows-buildable source that you provided. Jacques Basaldúa wrote:

Re: [computer-go] [ANNOUNCE] Computer Go 2009 - complete state of art

2009-12-04 Thread Michael Williams
Very nice. Do you (or anyone) have the details of (Boon, 2009) concerning arbitrarily shaped patterns? Petr Baudis wrote: Hello! Today I held a presentation on the complete state of art in Computer Go, showing hopefully all the current widely applicable results, most successful

Re: [computer-go] Go Programming Language

2009-11-11 Thread Michael Williams
If you thought finding Go(game)-related stuff on the web was hard before... Ben Shoemaker wrote: Has anyone tried programming Go in the Go Programming Language? http://golang.org/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org

Re: [computer-go] Bitmap Go revisited and mockup implementation

2009-08-26 Thread Michael Williams
the output actually changed, it would still be nice to see a few more lines and see the trend. Thanks for helping ... debugging for someone else must not be the best use of your time, René On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 8:03 PM, Michael Williams michaelwilliam...@gmail.com mailto:michaelwilliam...@gmail.com

Re: [computer-go] Bitmap Go revisited and mockup implementation

2009-08-25 Thread Michael Williams
(AMD Phenom CPU) Michael Williams wrote: It came through fine the first time. Gmail probably hid the duplicate text from you for convenience since it saw that it was text that you already sent out. Or something. I can compile the original (9x9) bitmap Go files in Windows 7 x64, but when I

Re: [computer-go] Bitmap Go revisited and mockup implementation

2009-08-25 Thread Michael Williams
; _BitScanForward (n, board.m128i_u32[m/4]); return 8*m + n; } René PS. x64 ... new playground, you could use __lzcnt64 ... so many things to try! On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 5:43 PM, Michael Williams michaelwilliam...@gmail.com mailto:michaelwilliam...@gmail.com wrote: (AMD Phenom CPU

Re: [computer-go] Bitmap Go revisited and mockup implementation

2009-08-25 Thread Michael Williams
really appreciate your help ! René On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 6:38 PM, Michael Williams michaelwilliam...@gmail.com mailto:michaelwilliam...@gmail.com wrote: That doesn't seem to have any effect on the results. René van de Veerdonk wrote: Hi Micheal, Thanks

Re: [computer-go] Bitmap Go revisited and mockup implementation

2009-08-25 Thread Michael Williams
, but it breaks my local copy). So, now I am positively baffled. Help? René On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:25 PM, Michael Williams michaelwilliam...@gmail.com mailto:michaelwilliam...@gmail.com wrote: Debug build: testing _BitScanForward (m, 0): 0 842032512 testing _BitScanForward (m

Re: [computer-go] Bitmap Go revisited and mockup implementation

2009-08-24 Thread Michael Williams
If an engine (or an engine's playout policy) needs to check the legality of every move before making a selection, this could still be a benefit. René van de Veerdonk wrote: David, Confession: I have not tested 19x19. As you have noted, and others before you over the years, a 19x19 board does

Re: [computer-go] Bitmap Go revisited and mockup implementation

2009-08-24 Thread Michael Williams
For many people on this list, Computer Go is a hobby and that means that it is important to do whatever you find interesting and motivating, event if it may not be the best or most promising direction in order to become the next world champion program. There is room for pushing limits in all

Re: [computer-go] Monte-Carlo Simulation Balancing

2009-08-13 Thread Michael Williams
no chance on 19x19 to do so. Am 13.08.2009 um 05:14 schrieb Michael Williams: After about the 5th reading, I'm concluding that this is an excellent paper. Is anyone (besides the authors) doing research based on this? There is a lot to do

Re: [computer-go] Monte-Carlo Simulation Balancing

2009-08-12 Thread Michael Williams
After about the 5th reading, I'm concluding that this is an excellent paper. Is anyone (besides the authors) doing research based on this? There is a lot to do. David Silver wrote: Hi everyone, Please find attached my ICML paper with Gerry Tesauro on automatically learning a simulation

Re: [computer-go] Fuego 04 native Windows

2009-08-09 Thread Michael Williams
Very nice! Thank you. Jacques Basaldúa wrote: I have made a native Windows Fuego build compiled with MS Visual Studio 2008. Thanks to the Fuego team for making such a nice program free software !! I will use it to measure some tree metrics to tune my own program and for a validation

Re: [computer-go] Fuego 04 native Windows

2009-08-09 Thread Michael Williams
Unpack to C:\ETC\Fuego in order for it to compile. Or modify the list of include folders in the project configuration. Jacques Basaldúa wrote: I have made a native Windows Fuego build compiled with MS Visual Studio 2008. Thanks to the Fuego team for making such a nice program free

Re: [computer-go] RAVE problems

2009-08-07 Thread Michael Williams
Although I've never done a RAVE implementation (soon, very soon), this is related in the sense that AMAF is related to RAVE: I have recently (yesterday, actually) done some experiments on AMAF with 5-vertex patterns (normal AMAF can be considered 1-vertex patterns). I was not able to observe

Re: [computer-go] Double/Triple Ko situation

2009-08-06 Thread Michael Williams
You should set the limit to whatever yields the highest ELO in YOUR program. Harry Fearnley wrote: Darren Cook wrote: The largest nakade shape is the rabbity six. My wild guess would be to outlaw self-atari for groups of 7+ stones. The fun thing about computer go is how hard it is to make

Re: [computer-go] Random weighted patterns

2009-07-15 Thread Michael Williams
If your weights are all between 0 and 1: do double r = rand(0 to 1) int i = rand(0 to weightCount - 1) until weight[i] r I think that's right. Mark Boon wrote: When using patterns during the playout I had improvised some code to select patterns randomly, but favour those with higher

Re: [computer-go] Big trees

2009-07-12 Thread Michael Williams
file showing the dominant variations with the number of wins and losses? It'd be interesting to see what the bot considers to be the best sequences are... Sent from my iPhone On Jul 10, 2009, at 10:10 PM, Michael Williams michaelwilliam...@gmail.com wrote: Now that I have this system

[computer-go] GTP commands for CGOS

2009-07-11 Thread Michael Williams
The CGOS page should have a list of the GTP commands required by CGOS. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/

[computer-go] Big trees

2009-07-10 Thread Michael Williams
Now that I have this system of generating really big game trees, what sort of interesting things could I do with it? The exact number of nodes I can store is not exact because I'm doing various things to reduce each node's footprint when it goes to disk. I'm currently building a tree that is

[computer-go] Re: Big trees

2009-07-10 Thread Michael Williams
So far, E5 and E6 are neck-and-neck for the favored opening move (E5 was leading almost the whole time until recently). The deepest part of the tree is 35 ply. About 18% of run time is spent swapping to disk. 40% is traversing the tree. 14% is Libego. Michael Williams wrote: Now that I have

[computer-go] Prediction

2009-07-08 Thread Michael Williams
Prediction: First, developers and algorithm gurus will expend huge amounts of effort to parallelize code to take advantage of multi-core chips. Then, hardware engineers and physics gurus will give us light-based CPUs and orders of magnitude improvement in single-core performance.

Re: [computer-go] Really basic question

2009-07-06 Thread Michael Williams
That's the beauty of MC! It really is a beautiful system. Initially, they were totally random playouts. But the more powerful MC Go engines do not do completely random playouts; they do heavy playouts. But if you were to look at a heavy playout, it would still look like a very weak Go

Re: [computer-go] Hash tables

2009-07-06 Thread Michael Williams
words, I would perform a mark-and-sweep garbage collection. Peter Drake http://www.lclark.edu/~drake/ On Jul 6, 2009, at 8:02 PM, Michael Williams wrote: If you are talking about 128k nodes, I don't think traversing them will take very long

Re: [computer-go] Complicated seki with Ko

2009-07-01 Thread Michael Williams
Suicide? Do you mean self-atari? But there must be more to it than that because you don't have a rule that prevents all self-atari, right? David Fotland wrote: X can't fill J6 because that would be suicide. For the moment, H5 is an eye. David -Original Message- From:

Re: [computer-go] Re: fuego strength

2009-06-24 Thread Michael Williams
Turn off Windows update or put the CGOS connect script in the startup folder and set an automatic login. David Fotland wrote: I can have a reduced version of Many Faces up all the time on an old computer, but I don't monitor it, so someone would have to email and remind me when it goes down

Re: [computer-go] CGOS 19x19 anchor

2009-06-23 Thread Michael Williams
Fuego gets an advantage because when it plays the anchor, it is playing a version of itself. That's bad for the same reason that it's bad to test against a version of your own program -- inflated results. But I don't think it's a big deal. What about using both Fuego and Mogo as anchors?

Re: [computer-go] Re: fuego strength

2009-06-23 Thread Michael Williams
If it were me, I'd run all anchor candidates against the current CGOS to determine the anchor value to use for that anchor candidate. Hideki Kato wrote: I'm running Fatman1, GNU Go and GNU Go MC version for 9x9 and two instances of GNU Go for 13x13, five programs in total, on a dual-core

Re: [computer-go] 1x1 patterns?!

2009-06-22 Thread Michael Williams
I had never considered using AMAF with larger pattern. That's an interesting idea. Perhaps a 5-vertex cross-shaped pattern or a 3x3 pattern. Has anyone tried this? Magnus Persson wrote: Probably 1x1 patterns implies that different priorities are assigned to the absolute position of empty

Re: [computer-go] 1x1 patterns?!

2009-06-22 Thread Michael Williams
for that position at that node. - Dave Hillis -Original Message- From: Michael Williams michaelwilliam...@gmail.com To: computer-go computer-go@computer-go.org Sent: Mon, Jun 22, 2009 3:02 pm Subject: Re: [computer-go] 1x1 patterns?! I had never considered using AMAF with larger pattern. That's

Re: [computer-go] Havannah - Go - LittleGolem

2009-06-21 Thread Michael Williams
Are the games archived? Does the public have access to those archives? Ingo Althöfer wrote: Hello, some time ago I had asked if discussions on computer Havannah were welcome here in the list. The reactions were positive, but (by different reasons) actors preferred not to use the

Re: [computer-go] Paper: Beta Distribution

2009-06-18 Thread Michael Williams
Section 3.2 describes a pair of tests that took about 4.2 minutes each (if my calculations are correct). Why not play more games and have each game contain more simulations? Writing the code and the paper is the hard part, waiting for a computer to run your code is easy. Peter Drake wrote:

Re: [computer-go] New CGOS - need your thoughts.

2009-06-16 Thread Michael Williams
I vote for 2 venues, each optional. Separate rating pools is a must. Łukasz Lew wrote: Maybe we could agree that 1 day out of 7 in a week would be played on 6 times faster time controls. The same bots, connections, logins, the same number of games per week. Different rating of course. This

Re: [computer-go] Core i7 performance in computer-go

2009-06-06 Thread Michael Williams
i always buy at the low end because you get so much better of a deal. But I'd guess the i7 is as excellent at Go as it is at everything else. Łukwasz Lew wrote: Hi I have few days to buy a computer for Monte-carlo Go program. There is not enough money for a multi processor, so I have to decide

Re: [computer-go] Tweak to MCTS selection criterion

2009-06-06 Thread Michael Williams
Another strategy to be considered is to not allow the thinking to cease until the maximum win rate and the maximum visit count agree on the same move. Obviously this requires some extra code to make sure you don't lose on time, etc. Brian Sheppard wrote: When a UCT search is completed, the

Re: [computer-go] UCT tree pruning

2009-06-05 Thread Michael Williams
Łukasz Lew wrote: On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 00:56, Michael Williams michaelwilliam...@gmail.com wrote: Two things: Firstly, I'm storing (only in RAM) the precalculated Winrate and InvSqrtVisits and keeping them updated. So my UCT formula went from Wins / Visits + sqrt(lnParentVisits

Re: [computer-go] UCT tree pruning

2009-06-02 Thread Michael Williams
Update: After concentrating on tightening the UCT loop, I've optimized myself back into needing the SDD :/ But now I should be able to get to 20B nodes in just one day. (still only doing 7x7 Go) Michael Williams wrote: Yes, when memory is full, I save and free all leaf nodes (which

Re: [computer-go] UCT tree pruning

2009-06-02 Thread Michael Williams
I mean SSD. Michael Williams wrote: Update: After concentrating on tightening the UCT loop, I've optimized myself back into needing the SDD :/ But now I should be able to get to 20B nodes in just one day. (still only doing 7x7 Go) Michael Williams wrote: Yes, when memory is full, I save

Re: [computer-go] UCT tree pruning

2009-06-02 Thread Michael Williams
. Anytime a proper UCT loop occurs, the likely-best reference is updated (about 90% of the time there is no change, so I think it's safe). Jason House wrote: That sounds like a good optimization. What did you do? Sent from my iPhone On Jun 2, 2009, at 3:16 PM, Michael Williams michaelwilliam

Re: [computer-go] UCT tree pruning

2009-06-02 Thread Michael Williams
Jason House wrote: On Jun 2, 2009, at 6:56 PM, Michael Williams michaelwilliam...@gmail.com wrote: Two things: Firstly, I'm storing (only in RAM) the precalculated Winrate and InvSqrtVisits and keeping them updated. So my UCT formula went from Wins / Visits + sqrt(lnParentVisits

Re: [computer-go] UCT tree pruning

2009-06-01 Thread Michael Williams
I've optimized my disk access to the point where I'm mostly CPU limited now, even when using a standard hard disk instead of an SSD. I can now create trees of up to about 30 billion nodes, which would take about a week. The simulation rate is continuously going down because so much time is

Re: [computer-go] UCT tree pruning

2009-06-01 Thread Michael Williams
Yes, when memory is full, I save and free all leaf nodes (which is the vast majority). Nodes are loaded as needed. Don Dailey wrote: On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 4:57 PM, Michael Williams michaelwilliam...@gmail.com mailto:michaelwilliam...@gmail.com wrote: I've optimized my disk access

Re: [computer-go] Extended AMAF

2009-05-29 Thread Michael Williams
Back in the days of Don's reference bot, I made some similar modifications to them and posted the results (slight improvement). The postings were around 10/28/08. Ingo Althöfer wrote: Hello, maybe this is old stuff for the insiders. In my lecture today a clever student (Hagen Riedel)

Re: [computer-go] Go + code + environment

2009-05-23 Thread Michael Williams
MoGo was inspired by Crazy Stone? I've never heard that before. Ian Osgood wrote: On May 23, 2009, at 3:17 AM, Joshua Shriver wrote: I know with the Chess community, it's looked down upon to use others code w/ respect to competing in tournaments. I'm curious, how is it with Go? Even more

Re: [computer-go] Reflections on a disaster

2009-05-21 Thread Michael Williams
Cool idea. Magnus Persson wrote: Valkyria computes AMAF win rates for all moves including those that are pruned or illegal in the position. What I noticed is that in cases of critical semeais the AMAF values of moves that are for example illegal can get very high since they only get legal

[computer-go] 7x7 komi

2009-05-21 Thread Michael Williams
What was the consensus on 7x7 komi? It was discussed back during Don's scalability study, but I couldn't find the number itself. Was it 9.0? ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org

Re: [computer-go] Libego compiling

2009-05-16 Thread Michael Williams
Michael Williams wrote: Ben Shoemaker wrote: Success! I was able to build on WinXP using Scons and minGW (with gcc4.3.3). Here's what (finally) worked for me: 1. Install Python 2.6.2 http://www.python.org/ftp/python/2.6.2/python-2.6.2.msi 2. Install minGW (using TDM's installer on empty

Re: [computer-go] Digital Mars

2009-05-15 Thread Michael Williams
Ben Shoemaker wrote: Success! I was able to build on WinXP using Scons and minGW (with gcc4.3.3). Here's what (finally) worked for me: 1. Install Python 2.6.2 http://www.python.org/ftp/python/2.6.2/python-2.6.2.msi 2. Install minGW (using TDM's installer on empty minGW directory)

Re: [computer-go] Implications of a CPU vs Memory trend on MCTS

2009-05-14 Thread Michael Williams
C# does. It should only take 30 bytes per node to store the information I need to have. But somehow that turns into 50 bytes. Byte alignment plus class overhead, I guess. Matthew Woodcraft wrote: Michael Williams wrote: I want to correct that last statement. With about 350M nodes

Re: [computer-go] Implications of a CPU vs Memory trend on MCTS

2009-05-14 Thread Michael Williams
It's on my list of things to improve. Michael Williams wrote: C# does. It should only take 30 bytes per node to store the information I need to have. But somehow that turns into 50 bytes. Byte alignment plus class overhead, I guess. Matthew Woodcraft wrote: Michael Williams wrote: I

Re: [computer-go] Implications of a CPU vs Memory trend on MCTS

2009-05-14 Thread Michael Williams
-go.org] On Behalf Of Michael Williams Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 7:08 AM To: computer-go@computer-go.org Subject: Re: [computer-go] Implications of a CPU vs Memory trend on MCTS C# does. It should only take 30 bytes per node to store the information I need to have. But somehow that turns

Re: [computer-go] Re: Implications of a CPU vs Memory trend on MCTS

2009-05-13 Thread Michael Williams
Plus, they are both made out of the same stuff so one would expect them to scale at about the same rate. Mark Boon wrote: I'm a bit late reading this thread and the discussion seems to have veered from the original topic a bit. As to the CPU vs. memory discussion, it's not so clear-cut to me

Re: [computer-go] Implications of a CPU vs Memory trend on MCTS

2009-05-13 Thread Michael Williams
bigger, but probably not much. Michael Williams wrote: Those numbers are the average after the tree has grown to 1B nodes. I'm sure the cache hates me. Each tree traversal will likely make several reads from random locations in a 50 GB file. Don Dailey wrote: So you are saying that use disk

[computer-go] Fuego project site

2009-05-12 Thread Michael Williams
The Projects link (http://fuego.sourceforge.net/projects.html) on the Fuego site (http://fuego.sourceforge.net/) is broken. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/

Re: [computer-go] Implications of a CPU vs Memory trend on MCTS

2009-05-12 Thread Michael Williams
I have a trick ;) I am currently creating MCTS trees of over a billion nodes on my 4GB machine. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/

Re: [computer-go] Implications of a CPU vs Memory trend on MCTS

2009-05-12 Thread Michael Williams
Don Dailey wrote: On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Michael Williams michaelwilliam...@gmail.com mailto:michaelwilliam...@gmail.com wrote: I have a trick ;) I am currently creating MCTS trees of over a billion nodes on my 4GB machine. Ok, I'll bite.What is your solution

Re: [computer-go] Implications of a CPU vs Memory trend on MCTS

2009-05-12 Thread Michael Williams
wrote: is the ssd fast enough to be practical? s. On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Michael Williams michaelwilliam...@gmail.com wrote: Don Dailey wrote: On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Michael Williams michaelwilliam...@gmail.com mailto:michaelwilliam...@gmail.com wrote: I have a trick

Re: [computer-go] Implications of a CPU vs Memory trend on MCTS

2009-05-12 Thread Michael Williams
if most of your reads and writes are cached.What happens when your tree gets much bigger than available memory? - Don On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Michael Williams michaelwilliam...@gmail.com mailto:michaelwilliam...@gmail.com wrote: In my system, I can retrieve the children

Re: [computer-go] Implications of a CPU vs Memory trend on MCTS

2009-05-12 Thread Michael Williams
Beverley Robinson, 1897 *From:* Michael Williams michaelwilliam...@gmail.com *To:* computer-go computer-go@computer-go.org *Sent:* Tuesday, May 12, 2009 10:18:28 AM *Subject:* Re: [computer-go] Implications of a CPU vs Memory trend

Re: [computer-go] Implications of a CPU vs Memory trend on MCTS

2009-05-12 Thread Michael Williams
*From:* Michael Williams michaelwilliam...@gmail.com *To:* computer-go computer-go@computer-go.org *Sent:* Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:09:41 PM *Subject:* Re: [computer-go] Implications of a CPU vs Memory trend on MCTS That's basically what I'm doing. Except

Re: [computer-go] Re: Implications of a CPU vs Memory trend on MCTS

2009-05-12 Thread Michael Williams
Where does your 99% figure come from? Dave Dyer wrote: Storing an opening book for the first 10 moves requires 331477745148242200 nodes. Even with some reduction for symmetry, I don't see that much memory becoming available anytime soon, and you still have to evaluate them somehow.

Re: [computer-go] Re: Implications of a CPU vs Memory trend on MCTS

2009-05-12 Thread Michael Williams
more than it did other moves. I'm not saying keeping the tree is a huge benefit. I'm just saying that I don't think your 99% number is fair. Dave Dyer wrote: At 02:13 PM 5/12/2009, Michael Williams wrote: Where does your 99% figure come from? 1/361 1% by endgame there are still easily 100

[computer-go] Mogo on supercomputer

2009-05-11 Thread Michael Williams
When Mogo runs on the supercomputer with long-ish time limits, how big does the search tree get? ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/

[computer-go] Fuego save uct tree as sgf

2009-05-10 Thread Michael Williams
Does anyone know how to interpret the data at each node of a SGF created by the Fuego command uct_savetree? It looks like this: MoveCount 35955 PosCount 35963 Mean 0.50 Rave: D4 0.50 (31635.70) B2 0.50 (27049.71) C2 0.50 (28288.84) D2 0.50 (29368.09) E2 0.50 (27690.41) F2 0.50 (27246.91) G2

Re: [computer-go] Fuego Binary for Intel Mac

2009-05-08 Thread Michael Williams
The Fuego documentation doesn't seem to contain any information about command-line options (if there are any). Ian Osgood wrote: On May 8, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Ech Naton wrote: Hello I made a binary of Fuego 0.3.2 for Intel Mac. It is build on OS X 10.4. So I don't know if it runs also

Re: [computer-go] Re: Fuego technical report

2009-05-07 Thread Michael Williams
What is the meaning of the value returned by uct_score? Martin Mueller wrote: How do you set the number of threads that you want Fuego to use? E.g. for 4 threads uct_param_search number_threads 4 This can go e.g. in a config file, or you can set it in GoGui in the Uct Param Search dialog.

Re: [computer-go] Re: Fuego technical report

2009-05-07 Thread Michael Williams
white stones adjacent. Komi of board is taken into account. Michael Williams wrote: What is the meaning of the value returned by uct_score? Martin Mueller wrote: How do you set the number of threads that you want Fuego to use? E.g. for 4 threads uct_param_search number_threads 4

Re: [computer-go] Fuego technical report

2009-05-07 Thread Michael Williams
I found an error in the documentation: === void GoUctCommands::CmdParamPlayer ( GtpCommand cmd ) === Get and set GoUctPlayer parameters. This command is compatible with the GoGui

[computer-go] Fuego on a small board

2009-05-07 Thread Michael Williams
After starting Fuego and issuing these commands: boardsize 4 komi 1.5 book_clear go_param timelimit 600 uct_param_search number_threads 1 go_param_rules ko_rule pos_superko uct_param_search max_nodes 3000 reg_genmove_toplay I get this result: SgRandom::SetSeed: 1241728335

Re: [computer-go] Fuego technical report

2009-05-06 Thread Michael Williams
How do you set the number of threads that you want Fuego to use? Does the windows version support multiple threads? Michael Williams wrote: Very nice. I do have one suggestion for Fuego. Make use of the ability to filter certain root moves out of the UCT tree to remove symmetrically

Re: [computer-go] Re: Fuego technical report

2009-05-06 Thread Michael Williams
Thanks. Yes, it works in Windows. Martin Mueller wrote: How do you set the number of threads that you want Fuego to use? E.g. for 4 threads uct_param_search number_threads 4 This can go e.g. in a config file, or you can set it in GoGui in the Uct Param Search dialog. You could also play

Re: [computer-go] Re: Fuego technical report

2009-05-06 Thread Michael Williams
Is there a way to get Fuego to do a certain number of playouts per turn? uct_param_search number_playouts N looked promising, but that is something different I think. Martin Mueller wrote: How do you set the number of threads that you want Fuego to use? E.g. for 4 threads

Re: [computer-go] Re: Fuego technical report

2009-05-06 Thread Michael Williams
I found it right after sending that (of course): uct_param_player max_games N Michael Williams wrote: Is there a way to get Fuego to do a certain number of playouts per turn? uct_param_search number_playouts N looked promising, but that is something different I think. Martin Mueller

Re: [computer-go] Fuego technical report

2009-05-05 Thread Michael Williams
Very nice. I do have one suggestion for Fuego. Make use of the ability to filter certain root moves out of the UCT tree to remove symmetrically equivalent moves. Or if it is not cost-prohibitive, throughout the tree. Martin Mueller wrote: Our technical report describing the Fuego framework

[computer-go] Re: Monte Carlo on GPU

2009-05-04 Thread Michael Williams
Michael Williams wrote: See the April 30 2009 posting: http://www.tobiaspreis.de/ The CUDA SDK also comes with a sample called Monte-Carlo Option Pricing ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman

[computer-go] Monte Carlo on GPU

2009-05-04 Thread Michael Williams
See the April 30 2009 posting: http://www.tobiaspreis.de/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/

Re: [computer-go] Monte-Carlo Simulation Balancing

2009-04-30 Thread Michael Williams
I wish I was smart :( David Silver wrote: Hi Remi, I understood this. What I find strange is that using -1/1 should be equivalent to using 0/1, but your algorithm behaves differently: it ignores lost games with 0/1, and uses them with -1/1. Imagine you add a big constant to z. One

Re: [computer-go] Monte-Carlo Simulation Balancing

2009-04-29 Thread Michael Williams
David Silver wrote: Hi Michael, But one thing confuses me: You are using the value from Fuego's 10k simulations as an approximation of the actual value of the position. But isn't the actual value of the position either a win or a loss? On such small boards, can't you assume that Fuego is

Re: [computer-go] Justification for c==0

2009-04-28 Thread Michael Williams
I will ignore Magnus's comments about AMAF while I respond directly to your comments. If you do one or two simulations from a leaf node and they happen to result in losses, you would never simulate that node again? And never expand it into it's child nodes? It is very possible that the

Re: [computer-go] Monte-Carlo Simulation Balancing

2009-04-27 Thread Michael Williams
Finally! I guess you can add this technique to your list, Lukasz. David Silver wrote: Hi everyone, Please find attached my ICML paper with Gerry Tesauro on automatically learning a simulation policy for Monte-Carlo Go. Our preliminary results show a 200+ Elo improvement over previous

Re: [computer-go] Monte-Carlo Simulation Balancing

2009-04-27 Thread Michael Williams
My favorite part: One natural idea is to use the learned simulation policy in Monte-Carlo search, and generate new deep search values, in an iterative cycle. But one thing confuses me: You are using the value from Fuego's 10k simulations as an approximation of the actual value of the position.

Re: [computer-go] Digital Mars

2009-04-24 Thread Michael Williams
According to my math, that comes out to around 205 cycles per playout move. Pretty damn good, I'd say. Łukasz Lew wrote: On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 01:52, Łukasz Lew lukasz@gmail.com wrote: I get g++-4.1 35 kpps/GHz g++-4.2 45 kpps/GHz g++-4.3 40 kpps/GHz I'm happy it's quite consistent

Re: [computer-go] Digital Mars

2009-04-22 Thread Michael Williams
= switch When using i686, it did not complain, and I get these results: 23.0972 kpps/GHz Łukasz Lew wrote: 2009/4/22 Michael Williams michaelwilliam...@gmail.com: This worked for me: C:\Libego\lukaszlew-libego-476a46885f80e1f4d83494bb632398b3974e901bg++ -o engine.exe ego/ego.cpp example/main.cpp

Re: [computer-go] Digital Mars

2009-04-22 Thread Michael Williams
Lew wrote: 2009/4/22 Michael Williams michaelwilliam...@gmail.com: This worked for me: C:\Libego\lukaszlew-libego-476a46885f80e1f4d83494bb632398b3974e901bg++ -o engine.exe ego/ego.cpp example/main.cpp -O3 -Iego -fomit-frame-pointer -ffast-math -frename-registers (I removed the -march switch

[computer-go] Libego benchmarking

2009-04-22 Thread Michael Williams
Here is my full set of numbers. I wonder why the known kpps/GHz but unknown kpps. = Benchmarking, please wait ... = 20 playouts in 0 seconds 1.#INF kpps 40.0245 kpps/GHz (clock independent) 105316/94359 (black wins / white wins) = 20 playouts in 0 seconds 1.#INF kpps 40.0721

Re: [computer-go] Reply to Lukasz and Don + Roadmap 2020

2009-04-21 Thread Michael Williams
Mention the program so that the author can either refute your claim or fix the bug. terry mcintyre wrote: Is it reasonable to expect pro players to use 6-dan programs as a tool for analysis? The pro players are markedly better - at a rough guess, a pro player could give a 6 dan amateur human

Re: [computer-go] Digital Mars

2009-04-21 Thread Michael Williams
Ok, I have Mingw installed now. That sounds like the way to go. But I still don't know how to compile it :/ According to the SConstruct file, I should be doing something like this to build, but it complains: C:\Libego g++ /Fobuild\ego\dbg\ego.obj /c ego\ego.cpp -DDEBUG -ggdb3 -Wall

[computer-go] Digital Mars

2009-04-20 Thread Michael Williams
I got Libego compiled to a Windows DLL using Visual Studio and was able to call it, but I was only getting around 5k pps on my Core2. So I wanted to try another compiler. Has anyone used the Digital Mars C++ compiler? Or is there another compiler I should try?

Re: [computer-go] Tree Contention

2009-04-15 Thread Michael Williams
You can change the value all you want. You just can't change the key. Jason House wrote: On Apr 14, 2009, at 7:57 PM, Rémi Coulom remi.cou...@univ-lille3.fr wrote: Jason House wrote: Out of curiosity, how do you intelligently delete old nodes? Reference counting won't always work due to

Re: [computer-go] Tree Contention

2009-04-15 Thread Michael Williams
I think your hash value is your first-try index into the hash table. So a 32-bit hash would be a 4E9 sized table. Probably too big for Remi's computer. I'd guess that he's using something between 16 and 32 bits in his hash hey. Jason House wrote: On Apr 15, 2009, at 6:50 PM, Michael

[computer-go] Tree Contention

2009-04-13 Thread Michael Williams
What tricks are people doing to minimize the performance degradation due to multiple threads contending for access to the tree (in MCTS)? Do you only lock a portion of the tree? How would that work? ___ computer-go mailing list

Re: [computer-go] Tree Contention

2009-04-13 Thread Michael Williams
details, I can try to get you sample code for Mac OS X or Linux (both on x86). Álvaro. On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 6:08 PM, Rémi Coulom remi.cou...@univ-lille3.fr wrote: Michael Williams wrote: What tricks are people doing to minimize the performance degradation due to multiple threads contending

Re: [computer-go] UCT-MC process

2009-04-11 Thread Michael Williams
no. just don't prune the tree. or allow unpruning. compgo...@aol.com wrote: Following is a description of the nature and process of the UCT-MC method. For a given Go board position P, let Np denote the total number of all possble end of game positions. Let Ei denote each of the end of game

Re: [computer-go] Libego for Windoze

2009-04-10 Thread Michael Williams
If I have only that file in the project, and fix some header includes, I am left with many errors still. The first few are complaining about this block: uint64 FastTimer::get_cc_time () volatile { uint64 ret; __asm__ __volatile__(rdtsc : =A (ret) : :); return ret; } Łukasz Lew wrote:

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