Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go

Hi Erik, > The most important skill in this game might be in how accurately > you can throw your frisbee. Why take that out? > > Build real robots! agreed, but one step after the other. My tentative time table looks like follows (joking): 2016 Frisbee Go simulation in the Computer Olympiad

Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go

The most important skill in this game might be in how accurately you can throw your frisbee. Why take that out? Build real robots! ;-) Erik On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 4:42 PM, "Ingo Althöfer" <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de> wrote: > Dear John, Dear Nick, Dear all, > > > > ... > > > Suppose I want to play

Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go

Dear John, Dear Nick, Dear all, > > ... > > Suppose I want to play on either of two adjacent points, and I don't care > > which. If I aim for one of them, I will land on one of them with probability > > (3p+1)/4, or whatever the formula says. I feel that I ought to be able to do > > better by

Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go

You could express the intended move as a pair of real numbers. A random offset is then added, following some probability distribution (Gaussian, or uniform in a disk of a certain radius, or ...), and then the result is rounded to the nearest point of integer coordinates. What possibilities does

Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go

dear Nick, > There's an assumption implicitly made here, which does not accord with my > experience of frisbee Go: that the player will always aim at an > intersection. > > Suppose I want to play on either of two adjacent points, and I don't care > which. If I aim for one of them, I will land on

Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go

There's an assumption implicitly made here, which does not accord with my experience of frisbee Go: that the player will always aim at an intersection. Suppose I want to play on either of two adjacent points, and I don't care which. If I aim for one of them, I will land on one of them with

Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go

Hi all, > I don't remember if there was consensus, but can repeat my previous thoughts: > > > 1. What happens with plays unintentionally on top of stones or out of > > bounds? > > Converted to involuntary pass. Agree. > Note that a throw must have some positive probability of converting into

Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go

I don't like it very much, simply selecting only from the valid neighbors would simplify the rules and shorten the game, but I guess maybe it does seem similar to what would happen in real life. Are there other games played with frisbees? Anyways I propose a frisbee-probability GTP command, it is

Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go

I don't remember if there was consensus, but can repeat my previous thoughts: > 1. What happens with plays unintentionally on top of stones or out of > bounds? Converted to involuntary pass. Note that a throw must have some positive probability of converting into a legal move. This way,

[Computer-go] Frisbee Go

Hello all, Has a consensus been reached about the rules/GTP modifications for frisbee Go? I assume a genmove turns into a genmove_reg+play, but: 1. What happens with plays unintentionally on top of stones or out of bounds? 1.1 If converted to passes, do they count towards end of play and scoring

Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation

Hi Ingo, Thanks, yes I see it is good to keep it simple to begin with, not least, to encourage entrants that it is not a big hurdle. Due to the lack of definite answer to "what epsilon?" the core idea was simply that if you keep epsilon small, then the restriction you made about only

Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation

Hi Josef,   > ... I think that we do not need to ensure that the stone cannot land > diagonally > by small epsilon, since ingo defined it s.t. it cannot. Exactly. "Frisbee Go Simulation" is not meant a realistic simuilation of true Frisbee Go, but as an abstract testbed for a Go variant with

Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation

Hello Raffles,   > ... Since this is based on a real world variant of Go, why not base epsilon > on that? ... In "true Frisbee Go" many more aspects may be taken into account: * During the first moves one may learn how good the throwing skills of the opponent are... * weather (and wind) may

Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation

If this catches on, perhaps the rules will be referred to as the Ingo rules ;-) Since this is based on a real world variant of Go, why not base epsilon on that? The fact that the limit of displacement from the intended position is limited to the

Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation

Attached is a frisbee go game 9x9 between me and a Chines 5-dan amateur.  50% chance of playing in the intended spot.  When a connection is required, it is just up to chance who wins the fight.  It's a little silly, but was a lot of fun to play.   David On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 23:13:51 +0100, "Ingo

Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation

> > (effectively) zero. Therefore epsilon should be pretty tiny. It must be > large enough that there is a chance of the frisbee being at least 50% over > the line (i.e. epsilon > 0), but small enough that the chance of it going > 70.7% over the line is vanishingly small (otherwise we would be

Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation

.   Ingo. Gesendet: Samstag, 14. November 2015 um 04:55 Uhr Von: fotl...@smart-games.com An: computer-go@computer-go.org Betreff: Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation Attached is a frisbee go game 9x9 between me and a Chines 5-dan amateur.  50% chance of playing in the intended spot.  When

Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation

, David Peters   Gesendet: Donnerstag, 12. November 2015 um 10:24 Uhr Von: "Darren Cook" <dar...@dcook.org> An: computer-go@computer-go.org Betreff: Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation > If one or two of these cells are outside the board the > move will count as a pas

Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation

> If one or two of these cells are outside the board the > move will count as a pass. If the landing cell is occupied by another > stone the move is also counted as a pass. Illegal moves are also counted > as pass moves. Alternatively, the probability could be adjusted for the number of legal

Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation

, 12. November 2015 um 10:24 Uhr > *Von:* "Darren Cook" <dar...@dcook.org> > *An:* computer-go@computer-go.org > *Betreff:* Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation > > If one or two of these cells are outside the board the > > move will count as a pass. If the land

Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation

; David Peters >> >> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 12. November 2015 um 10:24 Uhr >> *Von:* "Darren Cook" <dar...@dcook.org> >> *An:* computer-go@computer-go.org >> *Betreff:* Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation >> > If one or two of these cells are ou

Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation

On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 9:07 AM, Nick Wedd wrote: > I was thinking about the ko rule for frisbee ko, and realised it leads to > problems. > > 1. Black takes a ko, White tries to make a ko threat, but accidentally > retakes the ko. What should happen? This was already

Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation

Yesterday I modified Many Faces to play Frisbee go an played a few games with some other people at the Beijing Computer go tournament.  It's a very strange game.  If there is interest I can make an installer and make it available for free.   Josef Moudrik is also writing a program.   David On

[Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation

Hello, the next Computer Olympiad has been dated. It will take place in Leiden (NL), from June 27, 2016 to July 03, 2016. I want to propose a new Go variant for 9x9 board: "Frisbee Go simulation" Normal go rules apply. However, when a player wants to place a stone on "cell" (i,j), the stone

Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation

Would the game end after two unintentional passes? > On Nov 11, 2015, at 11:39 AM, Ingo Althöfer <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de> wrote: > > Hello, > > the next Computer Olympiad has been dated. > It will take place in Leiden (NL), from June 27, 2016 to July 03, 2016. > > I want to propose a new Go

Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation

1/5 also seems natural (equal chance of hitting each the 5 possible points). Álvaro. On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 10:08 AM, John Tromp wrote: > > By the way: It would also be necessary to decide about > > the eps for the event. Natural candidates would be > > eps=0.1 or

Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation

Hi David,   > I won't be able to be at the congress, participants need one person representing the bot at the event. This need not to be the main programmer. > but I think it would be pretty easy to modify MCTS to play this game.   The crucial point will be playing strength. > Do you plan to

Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation

Frisbee go sounds fun. How do you plan to use the GTP protocol to support this? I think that the randomization should be handled by the server, so the bot needs to get feedback about the move actually carried out. So maybe genmove + undo & play or reg_genmove + play depending on what do the bots

Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation

> Would the game end after two unintentional passes? Good point. In principle I would say so. To avoid problems with final counting, after 2 passes the game should be completed in traditional mode (without Frisbee simulation elements). One might say that such a final should be executed only

Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation

I was thinking reg_genmove.  Make the bot support one way to do it to make the referee simpler.   David On Thu, 12 Nov 2015 03:22:23 +, Josef Moudrik wrote: Frisbee go sounds fun.How do you plan to use the GTP protocol to support this? I think that the randomization should be handled

Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation

Oh! You can have a continuous handicap control by giving the players different epsilons. :) On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 2:25 PM, John Tromp wrote: > >> Would the game end after two unintentional passes? > > > Good point. In principle I would say so. > > That makes little

Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation

> Oh! You can have a continuous handicap control by giving the players > different epsilons. :) Right. You have "the same" in human-played Frisbee Go by having arbitrary distances from which the players have to throw their frisbees. (You may even change the distance during the game )