The cost-effectiveness of manned space travel plummets once one goes
much beyond low earth orbit. The risks to the travelers goes up
exponentially as well.
When one considers that the field of robotics is advancing at a
steepening curve plus the risk factors inherent in manned space flight,
it
I find it so disappointing hot short sighted logic and well meaning
people can be.
DB, I'm going to pull a Star Trek reverence on you, but you're a
Vulcan. It's going to take you thousands of years to figure out you
need or even how to wipe your butt. To dangerous and doesn't figure
in
Jeff,
We took our risks and lost... the wreckage is fairly visible all around
us and will become more soberingly evident with time. If you think Asia
is sleeping while we dither about our problems, you are naive. Last I
heard their growth rate is currently 8% while ours is negative.
The
Energy is only as free as the technology to capture and distribute it.
The advantages in manufacturing are cancelled out by the costs. Are the
corporations that want to use microgravity for production going to
absorb all the risks? Or is this yet another example of socializing risk
with
Yeh ... let private industry develop this new manned space flight. And
why won't they just do that on their own if it is such a great deal?
Because these private corps and their stockholders want the rest of us
... the taxpayers without bankruptcy protection who are just trying to
hang on to
Ready for a trip to Mars? Imagine riding a bicycle on Mars!
Uh, I've ridden on the Champs de Mars, does that count? Oh,
yeah, I'll take the ticket :-).
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That's if the country had the money or income stream to pay for manned
spaceflight.
We're the world's biggest debtor nation of all time, our creditors are
nervous as cats on a hot time roof since the crash ... not liking what
they now see nor the amount of our debt they are carrying and we
With such US manned space flights, I think we're talking about
champagne tastes on a beer budget
You make good points. But it is not productive to say what we
CAN'T do. We have this huge pool of resources sitting just beyond
our local gravity well, and we're one of two nations that can
We don't own it. I think it's called the ISS for a reason. Hell, the
Russians are broke and seem to be docking there more often
then we are.
Yes, but as long as Russia is the gas station for western Europe
believe me they aren't broke. We (the US) paid for Zarya because
we could get it
OK, the orbit is too low, but it's an asset to be leveraged.
We may not have the technology or the will for a manned Mars
landing, but just having a 24x7x365.25 platform is good.
There are a lot of worthwhile exploration opportunities.
Like what? I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, it's a
Yeh ... and the US announced something er other about wanting to shut
the Space Station down in 2015 ... a mere years after completion so
we can pay for manned missions going back to the moon or to Mars or
just wandering around out in space...Why would that be? ...Anybody
notice a striking
On Sep 12, 2009, at 7:13 AM Sep 12, Chris Dunford wrote:
Like what? I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, it's a serious
question. I've yet to read about any really important research that
is going on in the space station and that couldn't be done any
other way.
Isn't this just another
According to physicist Dr. Robert Park
of UMd and the American Physical Society:
You beat me to it. I was just about to post this. If, God forbid, a terrorist
someday forces me to put on a Terps sweatshirt, I will be able to resist giving
up the goods by telling myself that I'm wearing it in
Like what? I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, it's a serious
question. I've yet to read about any really important research that
is going on in the space station and that couldn't be done any
other way.
Isn't this just another socialist boondoggle? Should not space be
left for the likes
Chris Dunford seed...@gmail.com escribió:
According to physicist Dr. Robert Park of UMd and the American
Physical Society:
You beat me to it. I was just about to post this. If, God forbid, a
terrorist someday forces me to put on a Terps sweatshirt, I will be
able to resist giving up the goods
According to physicist Dr. Robert Park of UMd and the American
Physical Society:
You beat me to it. I was just about to post this. If, God forbid, a
terrorist someday forces me to put on a Terps sweatshirt, I will be
able to resist giving up the goods by telling myself that I'm wearing
Like what? I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, it's a serious question. I've
yet to read about any really important research that is going on in the
space station and that couldn't be done any other
way.
Microgravity offers real advanages in alloy and semiconductor
maufacturing, also
Are you sure about this? I know it takes 20+ minutes to send a
command to the rovers, but I also was sure they just sat there till
they got those commands. Computers aren't at all bright. I wouldn't
trust a multi-million dollar space rover to Windows? I wouldn't even
trust it to a Mac.
Actually, there are quite a few reasons to be in space. In addition
to GPS, weather satellites, and warnings of solar flares [which, if
large enough, can fry your iPod, your computer, and the entire
electrical grid], the space program can warn about continent-killing
asteroids. And, if
Actually, there are quite a few reasons to be in space
Constance, I might have missed something, but I didn't see anyone disagreeing
with this. The disagreement is about the manned space program...
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Well, my main point was that you really need to tell your
congressperson and senators that you want GPS and other space
programs to continue. If not, they will go away. (And we will all
go away if, in 2036, the asteroid turns out to be headed straight for
earth and we haven't spent the
http://fora.tv/2009/02/04/Neil_deGrasse_Tyson_The_Pluto_Files#fullprogram
Chapter 18 is especially interesting.
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 7:28 AM, Constance Warner cawar...@his.com wrote:
Well, my main point was that you really need to tell your congressperson
and senators that you want GPS and
Actually, there are quite a few reasons to be in space. In addition to GPS, weather satellites, and warnings of solar flares [which, if large enough, can fry your iPod, your computer, and the entire electrical grid], the space program can warn about continent-killing asteroids. And, if we do
I wouldn't bet on an iPod, or any other electronic device, working
after an EMP in the vicinity.
A solar flare, however, is a different kettle of fish. A historical
case: in 1859, an unusually intense solar flare (the Carrington
Event) induced high voltage in telegraph wires, disrupting
I used to have a site for that engine bookmarked, but I can't find it
now. And I can't remember what it's called so I can't search for it.
But from what I remember they almost had it completed and were in the
testing phase.
Jeff Miles
jmile...@charter.net
Join my Mafia
Here's another example: the space station, where not much
science is getting done by the three-person crew.
Up to six now. There are currently two Soyuz spacecraft on station
at a given time, since May 29, 2009. To be precise, TMA-14 and
TMA-15 are docked at the Pirs nadir port and the
It's becoming one busy place.
I've thought about what my great grandkids would think about our
arguments over manned space flight. Do you think they'd be looking at
us like we look at those who argued man wasn't meant to fly?
Time seems to go by so fast. I was reminded of this when
Yeh ... and the US announced something er other about wanting to shut
the Space Station down in 2015 ... a mere years after completion so we
can pay for manned missions going back to the moon or to Mars or just
wandering around out in space.
Why would that be?
Anybody notice a striking
I should have called that one ... Shoot the Moon ... go baby go ... roll
those dice !
:)
db
db wrote:
Yeh ... and the US announced something er other about wanting to shut
the Space Station down in 2015 ... a mere years after completion so we
can pay for manned missions going back to the
It's late and I'm tired so your sarcasm kind of went over my head. So
with this post I'm not sure what your really think. But the us can't
shut down the space station. We don't own it. I think it's called the
ISS for a reason. Hell, the Russians are broke and seem to be docking
there more
Yeh ... and the US announced something er other about wanting to
shut the Space Station down in 2015...
Ain't going to happen. The Russkies have the operations stuff
down pat, they've got a LOT of on orbit expertise, and the ESA
and JAXA have a lot of money invested in those labs.
Now that
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 1:30 PM, Constance Warner cawar...@his.com wrote:
You might also remind your senators and your congressman that China
and--surprisingly--India both have space programs and, among other goals,
are aiming for the moon. I don't necessarily want the U.S. to do a land
Huh? I thought NASA's moon program is, unfortunately, still alive and sorta
on schedule. We're abandoning our plans for a space station after our
commitments are done and putting all our eggs into Ares/Orion.
As of this moment, it still is alive. However, a White House panel of experts
has
Yes, but sending a robot out has nowhere near the PR potential as a
live person. And it's been done already. Besides, as a species, we
can't actually say we walked there unless one of our feet hits the
dirt.
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Chris Dunford seed...@gmail.com wrote:
Huh? I thought
Yes, but sending a robot out has nowhere near the PR potential as a
live person. And it's been done already. Besides, as a species, we
can't actually say we walked there unless one of our feet hits the
dirt.
So, like I said, no real purpose. :)
Huh? I thought NASA's moon program is, unfortunately, still alive and sorta
on schedule. We're abandoning our plans for a space station after our
commitments are done and putting all our eggs into Ares/Orion.
As of this moment, it still is alive. However, a White House panel of experts
has
By the way, I really liked James Cameron's idea. The whole capsule
being a moon car. It lands, the wheels pop out and off you go.
Jeff Miles
jmile...@charter.net
Join my Mafia
http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726
On Sep 10, 2009, at 11:16 AM, Allen
Why unfortunately? The moon is a good place to get back to. What
about that helium 3? Plus they've been talking about making fuel and
building things from what they mine on the moon. Not saying it's going
to happen tomorrow, but still, it's in the thinking.
Jeff Miles
I also forget to mention, a weapons platform on the moon wouldn't
provide for much of a surprise attack. FIRE! And then 3 days later
I hate hearing this idea of why are we sending people to space. Do
you really think a robot could have fixed the Hubble the couple times
it's needed to
At least no real purpose for you in the next few years. Unless of
course we name a toilet after you instead of John Stewart. Then you'd
probably want to go visit that.
I can't imagine where we'd be today if everyone thought like this
back in the 1400's. Who needs a new world or another
Do you really think a robot could have fixed the Hubble the couple
times it's needed to be fixed? I really doubt it.
We could have replaced Hubble for far less than we've spent on the shuttle
program.
Do you really think we could gather the information needed on how
space effects humans
I can't imagine where we'd be today if everyone thought like this
back in the 1400's. Who needs a new world or another route to Asia?
There isn't even a remote comparison between exploring Earth and sending a few
people to the moon, sorry.
There's a direct comparison. What part of moving on don't you
understand? I've already mentioned helium 3, which I've heard could
power the us for hundreds of years at less then the cost of what we
spend on oil today. What other motivation do you need? I mean besides
human growth and
Do you mean the couple of flights by the space shuttle to repair
Hubble, or the entire program? We have had around 160+ space shuttle
flights.
We know pretty much everything we need to know? Why didn't we stop
with Aristotle? Hell, we knew everything we needed to know by then.
What's a
We know pretty much everything we need to know? Why didn't we stop
with Aristotle? Hell, we knew everything we needed to know by then.
What's a microchip? Who knows, who cares.
Oh, please. That sentence was in response to your claim that we need to learn
about the effects of space on humans.
Well if that was your original question, no we don't. We haven't been
there long enough. We know a few things, but we're not even finished
learning about us on Earth. If you think we are you could open one
hell of a medical center. You'd be rich. By the way, they are testing
and making
Wow, when did Spirit and Opportunity learn to work on their own? I
wonder if the people who get paid to drive them know this. If they
are working on there own, what do you think they're thinking?
There's a rock, let's flip it over. Or maybe, damn it's dusty
today. Or maybe, Hey Opportunity,
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