Deadline passed and I see we've been hoodwinked by Dell. While XP Home is
now no longer available thay are selling PCs with XP Pro on the hard
drive and a Vista DVD in the box. So this is actually an even better buy
than the deal they terminated last week. Two versions of the OS for the
price
I guess I wasn't following this as closely as you, hoodwinked how?
Mike
On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 4:51 PM, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Deadline passed and I see we've been hoodwinked by Dell. While XP Home is
now no longer available thay are selling PCs with XP Pro on the hard
drive
As I read it retail sales of XP ended this month. It is still
allowed to be sold with system till sometime this fall.
Also it will be allowed to be included on economy systems. (Under a
certain dollar value)
It is closer to MS caving into demand that Dell misleading. I
believe that MS
To me, it looks like the game is played: Buy MS OS--whatever the latest
version. Use all MS products on it (browsers, email programs,
Office). Repeat about every 3 years.
I'm not sure this is a fair analysis, Sue. As I mentioned earlier, I'm still
using, with Vista, software that was
How many horses is enough for Vista to run well? Which version of Vista?
Well, I'm running Vista Ultimate with an Intel Core2 (dual processor) at
2.4GHz and 2GB of RAM. Not exactly top-of-the-line stuff any more...
Chris
And it's certainly more secure.
Chris
How do you know for sure?
My impression of improved security is tighter digital rights management
and IT's tighter control over what the user can do (in a corporate
environment).
I've never had an infection and my Windows 2000 is still running fine.
I just migrated my parents (late 70's, early 80's) from their 10-year
old, first edition iMac to the latest model iMac. Yes, they are
learning OS X 10.5 after using OS 8.6. That said, I told them not to
buy any software, but to download Firefox and OpenOffice. The free,
open-source software is
I ran the upgrade adviser and it shows only 15 of my applications won't
work with Vista -- better than I had expected. There were no device
problems except for Bluetooth which won't work with Vista.
I'm surprised that there were that many. That was certainly not my own
experience. When you
Heh, I still have an old road apple- Performa 6300 in basement that
maxes out at os9.2. My G3 stopped doing anything a few months ago.
My guess is a power supply but I haven't been motivated enough to find
one. I haven't fired up the Mac Plus in ages but it worked the last
time I tried. IMS
Thanks for that info, Tom. It sounds like Apple has decided to play the
game too. Can you imagine a market share if someone ever decided to build
a good machine and support it for more than a few years?
Strange stories this week at Macintouch.com of salesfolk at the Apple
Store downselling.
I've seen people hang on to the strangest software...just out of fear of
change.
Mike
On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 7:21 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It might not be. MS bought some very strong lines of professional business
software years ago, one of them a AR ledger
Jeff makes a valid point and my company is one example. We have many
applications used across various sectors and the company does not
support multiple OS versions, testing, etc. The company buys and
reconfigures every computer to a specific XP configuration. At some
point, they will probably
Quoting Chris Dunford [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Yeah. Get a Mac.
I realize that many folks think they are forever bound to a MS
operating system of one flavor or another. Such a burden.
Nobody suggested this. It's that the get a Mac response to almost any
Windows question is old, tired, and
Computerworld posted an FAQ on Micro$oft's XP/Vista deadline here:
http://computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasicart
icleId=9098418
Thank you,
Mark Snyder
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Does anyone have a strategy for avoiding Vista?
Yeah. Get a Mac.
While this suggestion was offered in jest (and got stomped
on by some humorless Windows types), I'd like to point out
that it is potentially a real solution to Tom's problem.
I occasionally run either Windows 98 or 2000, or
I think you've misdiagnosed Tom's problem entirely. Hint: It has
nothing at all to do with computers or virtual machines.
On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 11:26 AM, David K Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
While this suggestion was offered in jest (and got stomped
on by some humorless Windows types),
Yeah. Get a Mac.
While this suggestion was offered in jest (and got stomped
on by some humorless Windows types...
Oddly enough, I'm not actually considered all that humorless by my friends,
despite my Windows-type-busboy status.
The problem is that this particular joke was officially
And if it (the software) still works, defined as doing what you need
it to do, it should be possible to replace the hardware without
replacing all the apps, etc.
Matthew
On Jun 16, 2008, at 10:43 PM, Sue Cubic wrote:
It would make me very happy to be able to continue using what I
already
On Jun 17, 2008, at 12:39 PM, Chris Dunford wrote:
The problem is that this particular joke was officially classified No
Longer Funny on the date of its one millionth occurrence in this
list.
What I am about to say is said in jest. However, that does not
mean that part of it is untrue.
What's wrong with Vista? Having to struggle to access many things that
should be transparently available..
db: I just noticed this... I'm curious, what sorts of things that should be
transparently available do you find that you have to struggle to access?
Chris
At 01:03 PM 06/17/2008 -0400, Matthew Taylor wrote
And if it (the software) still works, defined as doing what you need
it to do, it should be possible to replace the hardware without
replacing all the apps, etc.
The problem is that some of my software won't work on Vista. I've tried it
on
At 04:28 PM 6/17/2008, you wrote:
Date:Tue, 17 Jun 2008 16:27:32 -0400
From:Sue Cubic [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Forced to Vista?
The problem is that some of my software won't work on Vista. I've
tried it on other machines. My biggest complaint is all the
problems that
At 11:57 AM 6/16/2008, Tony B wrote:
To reiterate: The much ballyhooed problems with Vista were never
actually problems with the OS, but rather, problems with support from
the myriad of manufacturers that [are supposed to] support the OS.
Yeah, but Microsoft could have put in a translation layer
How many horses is enough for Vista to run well? Which version of Vista?
At 12:21 PM 6/16/2008, Chris Dunford wrote:
No reason at all. As long as you have enough horses in the box, Vista is
far superior to XP. I have to use both (for professional reasons) and I hate
using the XP box now.
At 03:38 PM 6/16/2008, Chris Dunford wrote:
And
it's certainly more secure.
Chris
How do you know for sure?
My impression of improved security is tighter digital rights management and
IT's tighter control over what the user can do (in a corporate environment).
I've never had an infection and
Definately don't go by Vista's support page. Vista ran fine on my amd 4200
with 2 gigs of ram and a 7950 gt...right now i'm on a amd 4800 with 4 gigs
of ram and ultimate...don't have any issues except for the driver for my msi
tv card. This was the only card I could find in my price range (read
At 09:00 PM 6/16/2008, Tom Piwowar wrote:
Giving me the MS party line is even less useful than saying get a Mac.
The software the client wants to keep using has not had any updates in
years. So my job is to get up-to-date hardware configured to run old
software.
I have Win 2000 running on a
Mac users seem measure threats by actual incursions into their OS by
malware/viruses. Windows and mac users seem to measure security for windows
by reported threats that may or may not appear. Statistically vista has had
many fewer problems then any other iteration of windows, but if you are
Yes I have seen their newer stuff. If you like the old Eudora, I
have a few words of advice. DO NOT CHANGE!
They took away some of the nicer aspects of Eudora in my
opinion. (The ability to specify where you put attachmetns and stuff.)
It is turning into a form of Thunderbird.
Too much
At 01:49 PM 6/16/2008, Rich Schinnell wrote:
I have a dos 6.22 and windows 3.11 for workgroups that your welcome to. Dos
rules and works great, I even have word perfect for dos that your welcome to.
My old 386 runs great with this config and you can do whatever you want in
DOS. You can use the
At 09:54 PM 6/16/2008, Tony B wrote:
I'd like to know what software it is. But I should probably know
better than to ask, because often the answer is some antique POS you
couldn't _give_ away today, but the clients are real luddites.
No, I'll bet the client doesn't want to spend a lot of
I ran the upgrade adviser and it shows only 15 of my applications won't
work with Vista -- better than I had expected. There were no device
problems except for Bluetooth which won't work with Vista.
Chris Dunford wrote:
I haven't tried Vista yet, but I think one problem might be that some
Sorry...*where* you put attachments? In the email?
Mike
On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 3:16 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yes I have seen their newer stuff. If you like the old Eudora, I have a
few words of advice. DO NOT CHANGE!
They took away some of the nicer aspects of
I have a Dell Notebook running Vista Home Premium with a Bluetooth
mouse. What are you using for a bluetooth device?
Robert wrote:
I ran the upgrade adviser and it shows only 15 of my applications won't
work with Vista -- better than I had expected. There were no device
problems except for
Fred
I have Basic with 2 gig. I don't have any extra programs on here but cleaning
tools-ccleaner, the free wise disk cleaner and wise reg cleaner and mz vista
force. I also have pokerstars and a few meg of audios
Terry Kilburg - Independent Reliv International Distributor!
563-872-3788
At 02:30 AM 6/17/2008, mike wrote:
I've seen people hang on to the strangest software...just out of fear of
change.
Mike
Often a well-deserved fear of change. New software is often inadequately
tested. Why trade the devil you know for the devil you don't know, unless you
really know of some
Indeed, there are many who are justified. Your company gets screwed over
once by your accounting software and you get REAL nervous about touching
that again.
I still miss ircle from my mac days, there just isn't anything like it on
windows.
Mike
On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Fred Holmes
At 03:30 PM 06/17/2008 -0700, mike wrote
Sorry...*where* you put attachments? In the email?
Eudora has always separated attachments from the email and stored them in a
separate file. Those of us who are used to that prefer it and don't want
our attachments stored with the emails. I think
At 03:02 PM 06/17/2008 -0700, mike wrote
Eudora was taken over by the folks at thunderbird, has anyone tried out the
beta? I see no plain dates on the site, so I'm not sure if they are
actively working on it still.
The WinEudora list is not recommending it. They recommend sticking with
When you receive email, Eudora normally strips attachments out of the
email and puts a copy of them in the specified folder (Unlike Outlook
and T'bird). So if I get an email with 20 pictures attached I have
access to those pictures at any time. If I specify that I want all
attachments left
No, I'll bet the client doesn't want to spend a lot of time/money on
training for a new system whose new features may not be useful in his
circumstances.
Precisely correct. The reason I am working to keep this client on XP is
exactly the same reason I often suggest people get a Mac: it will
No it does not.
That is why I could never recommend the newer Eudora and still prefer the old.
Stewart
At 07:18 PM 6/17/2008, you wrote:
At 03:30 PM 06/17/2008 -0700, mike wrote
Sorry...*where* you put attachments? In the email?
Eudora has always separated attachments from the email and
To me, it looks like the game is played: Buy MS OS--whatever the latest
version. Use all MS products on it (browsers, email programs,
Office). Repeat about every 3 years. My son is pushing me to buy a
Mac. Is the situation the same with them? I see no reason to switch to a
more expensive
Tom I comprehend you perfectly. Stick with what works and quit going
for the glitz.
I knew a guy who had to have the latest hardware. He spent way more
than I ever did. You know what I did, he always wanted a trade if of
his old equipment.
So I upped his price took the old equipment in
Perhaps a reason that the Get a Mac joke is no longer funny is
due to the fact that after over a million such suggestions, no one
has ever countered with Get Windows.
On the contrary, they have gone out an gotten Macs. Apple's market share
has doubled. This is no joke for the Windows fan
If you stop being an ass. You started this thread and the only reason
you've given for not liking this OS that came out a year ago is that it
won't run old software.
You consistently fail to read carefully. The reason I don't like the OS
is because it won't meet the clients needs. That should
The driver layers have to be rewritten because in my business the
application software is ALL proprietary. It all has to talk to server,
mainframe, and other device layers that affect literally millions, actually
hundreds of millions, of people. It's not worth the risk when you have that
many
I cannot remember the exact name of the program but it was like great
Lakes or something accounting software that was in use 15 years ago
when we were assembling DOS/Novell/Lantastic/Xenix units and it ran
on Xenix and Dos.
Great Plains.
So sad they met such a terrible fate.
The following is how you began this thread. No where within is there
anything about your specific problem with vista being that some software
your clients need not being able to be run on vista. XP is still available,
MS will let you downgrade if you desire, you already know that. Your
question
I agree but MS is no different than Intuit (Parsons Tax Edge) and
Adobe (Aldus Pagemaker)
Stewart
At 07:48 PM 6/17/2008, you wrote:
Great Plains.
So sad they met such a terrible fate.
Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL
With such requirements I wonder why you are not running Linux. That
would put you in control of your destiny instead of getting run around by
greedy MS.
I don't make those decisions. Many moons ago I remember that our
typical office ran on SPARCstations and SPARCservers, and before
that on
At 08:35 PM 06/17/2008 -0400, Tom Piwowar wrote
Will things slow down now? Or will Apple decide that this rapid pace is
better for them?
Thanks for that info, Tom. It sounds like Apple has decided to play the
game too. Can you imagine a market share if someone ever decided to build
a good
By the way, no drivers for XP for certain hardware isn't MS's fault...the
companies who create the software decided to not write drivers.
Mike
On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 8:14 AM, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I see that Dell will stop taking orders for XP equipped PCs on the 18th
(this
Odd you should mention this, as I will be getting a new motherboard
this month and I've (almost) decided to go with Vista instead of XP.
I've had a dual boot XP/Vista install for a while, but little (third
party) problems kept me from defaulting to Vista. Well, now that
Nvidia has gotten their
On Jun 16, 2008, at 11:14 AM, Tom Piwowar wrote:
Does anyone have a strategy for avoiding Vista?
Macintosh OS.
Steve
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I've run vista on a dozen machines, never had anything similiar. What did
you buy that it ran like that? And can you be more specific?
Mike
On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 9:00 AM, Rev. Stewart Marshall
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Does the phrase runs like ME mean anything to you?
Stewart
At
What's wrong with Vista? Having to struggle to access many things that
should be transparently available and having it decide other things for
me incorrectly is a big reason for me.
I want to do my work on a computer not have the computer be the work.
Same things goes for Office 2007.
On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 11:14 AM, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Does anyone have a strategy for avoiding Vista?
Yeah. Get a Mac.
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On Jun 16, 2008, at 2:10 PM, Reid Katan wrote:
On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 11:14 AM, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Does anyone have a strategy for avoiding Vista?
Yeah. Get a Mac.
I suggested getting the Mac OS and was criticized for doing so.
Actually, I should have merely
what were your reasons for going with xp instead of vista?
On 6/16/08, Ellen Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm ordering three new machines from Dell today with XP on them. They
should hold us until whatever follows Vista is available.
Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I see that
Can you list your reasons for why your XP box isn't as good as Vista?
It's sort of hard to put a finger on. Mostly it just feels better. But I
have found it to be more robust (XP was pretty good, but I did get the
occasional bluescreen or hangup--I've never had either with Vista). And
it's
Tom is a fan BOI, not boy. Glitterati are bois, not boys.
I stand corrected. It also explains why PC users are mostly busboys and not
busbois.
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At 12:38 PM 6/16/2008, you wrote:
ate:Mon, 16 Jun 2008 09:38:01 -0700
From:db [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Forced to Vista?
What's wrong with Vista? Having to struggle to access many things
that should be transparently available and having it decide other
things for me incorrectly
and proud of it.
On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 4:00 PM, Chris Dunford [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Tom is a fan BOI, not boy. Glitterati are bois, not boys.
I stand corrected. It also explains why PC users are mostly busboys and not
busbois.
mike wrote:
Does anyone know why anyone wants to avoid vista on new machines? What is
the problem?
Mike
I haven't tried Vista yet, but I think one problem might be that some
software doesn't work for Vista as it does for XP. I'd like to see a
list of software that doesn't work with
I haven't tried Vista yet, but I think one problem might be that some
software doesn't work for Vista as it does for XP
I use a LOT of software and have had almost no trouble. A couple of things
had to run in XP compatibility mode and a couple more needed updates (which
were free in the specific
what were your reasons for going with xp instead of vista?
Need to run old software. MS bought the software company a few years ago
and discontinued their products. My client does not want to switch
despite aggressive MS sales tactics.
And suggesting it to Tom Piwowar, Mac guy and king of the Apple fan-boys (if
I may use his phrase), is surely carrying coals to Newcastle...
I am not an Apple fan. I merely despise junk and adore quality. It is not
my fault that MS makes junk and sells it by using strong-arm tactics.
I use a LOT of software and have had almost no trouble. A couple of things
had to run in XP compatibility mode and a couple more needed updates (which
were free in the specific cases I ran into). I had only one app that
wouldn't work at all
Giving me the MS party line is even less useful than
No reason at all. As long as you have enough horses in the box, Vista is
far superior to XP. I have to use both (for professional reasons) and I hate
using the XP box now.
If the client's primary application won't run there is no way that they
are going to love Vista.
I'd like to know what software it is. But I should probably know
better than to ask, because often the answer is some antique POS you
couldn't _give_ away today, but the clients are real luddites.
On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 9:28 PM, mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So you don't like Vista because it
It might not be. MS bought some very strong lines of professional
business software years ago, one of them a AR ledger program that a
lot of businesses used.
Stewart
At 08:54 PM 6/16/2008, you wrote:
I'd like to know what software it is. But I should probably know
better than to ask,
So you don't like Vista because it won't run software that came out years
ago?
Don't be a jerk Mike. Lots of folks run old software for good reasons. I
have Mac clients using software that was discontinued 15 years ago.
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At 10:22 PM 06/16/2008 -0400, Tom Piwowar wrote
Don't be a jerk Mike. Lots of folks run old software for good reasons. I
have Mac clients using software that was discontinued 15 years ago.
There are those who can afford to replace software every time a new version
comes out. There are young
The software the client wants to keep using has not had any updates in
years. So my job is to get up-to-date hardware configured to run old
software.
We're still running mission critical apps on, in most individual cases,
P4 platforms.
XP Pro is the OS of choice.
Why would we do this?
Sure. Buy Dells with a Vista license and Ghost them with XP installs. You
need to have a volume XP product key to do this.
Why? Because Vista doesn't have significant enough business value for me to
go through the hassle of upgrading all the desktops to Vista. XP works just
fine for us. I'm
Not just businesses.
Schools also labor under some of the same constraints.
Our local school system still has machines that run 95. Many of them
are running 98. As they upgrade they go with the latest OS, but they
cannot afford to just upgrade machines at will.
Schools down here operate
Don't be a jerk Mike. Lots of folks run old software for good reasons. I
have Mac clients using software that was discontinued 15 years ago.
And I use, every day, a program that I wrote twenty-five years ago for DOS
2.0. The fact that your clients can still use this software doesn't prove
Vista doesn't have significant enough business value for me to go through
the hassle of upgrading all the desktops to Vista.
Here's something I don't understand, Jeff. Why is there a need for
upgrading all the desktops to Vista? This is basically the same argument
that Eric makes in another
Why upgrade everything at once? Why not just replace XP machines with
Vista
machines on their regular replacement cycle? I've heard some comments
about
IT issues with maintaining two OSs, but I don't really see it. It's just
doesn't seem that hard. They aren't THAT different.
The driver
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