ktpub.com/application-development/java-ee-8-high-performance>
Le dim. 14 oct. 2018 à 15:19, Reuven Lax a écrit :
> What in Beam codebase is not ready, and how do we know that user code
> doesn't have the same issue?
>
> On Sun, Oct 14, 2018 at 6:04 AM Romain Manni-Buc
that so it is fine to
update it normally.
Romain Manni-Bucau
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not with java>=8 AFAIK
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No, only parameter types and return type is used to lookup methods.
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What about a link in the menu. It should contain a list of features and
estimate date with probable error (like "in 5 months +- 1 months) otherwise
it does not bring much IMHO.
Le mer. 10 oct. 2018 23:32, Kenneth Knowles a écrit :
> Hi all,
>
> We made an attempt at putting together a sort of ro
Le mer. 10 oct. 2018 21:31, Robert Bradshaw a écrit :
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 10, 2018, 4:56 PM Romain Manni-Bucau
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Le mer. 10 oct. 2018 à 14:59, Maximilian Michels a
>> écrit :
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>
eam enhancement plans and assign them some fix
versions before defining what support model of Beam can be.
Just the 2 cts of an outsider.
Romain Manni-Bucau
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p their machines as well.
Today the main blocker is that default "profile" (script) is not matching
dev persona and therefore there is no real hope to have external
contributions
outside google related guys as mentionned by previous ficgures which is sad
for a project promishing unification and wo
topic.
Le mer. 10 oct. 2018 11:58, Robert Bradshaw a écrit :
> On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 10:25 AM Romain Manni-Bucau
> wrote:
>
>> On the split point: a mono-repo works for me as well. The main point is
>> "N separate builds".
>>
>> On the portable thing
model/
> > > > website/
> > > > java/
> > > > go/
> > > > ...
> > > >
> > > > possibly even with their own build system (unified only
> > through a
> >
> possibly even with their own build system (unified only through a
> > > top-level "build everything" script that descends into each subdir
> and
> > > runs the appropriate command). I'm not saying we should do this
> (there
> > > is value
d probably even make separate releases out of this
> > single repo (if we wanted, though given that our releases are time-based
> > rather than feature-based, I don't see much advantage here).
> >
> > Also, there was the comment.
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 10, 201
@Reuven: any idea what is missing? I don't expect it to be ready very
quickly but having 2 repos does not hurt that much if both are working
better than a single one so can be worth a try maybe?
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> |
se incremental build
cause you want to have a fully reliable build.
So at the end the incremental build support is not that significative for
end users and contibutors. The cost of not having the IDE support, however,
is just a blocker.
So my 2cts would be to stop trying to be good theorically
For me the vendoring issue is ok cause it should belong to another shade
loduke released with beam when needed. It is not an uncommon practise.
Now the lack of IDE integration for tests/debug (using gradle runner is a
workaround and still hurts by its slowness compared to native run) is a
clear sh
state for a community driven project. Let's fix it!
Romain Manni-Bucau
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@Reuven: bytebuddy by itself no but the way beam tries to inject the proxy
class is. There are other strategies you can use in bytebuddy which work.
Romain Manni-Bucau
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> > ** • *Google, Inc.*
> > * • arifka...@google.com <mailto:arifka...@google.com>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 5, 2018 at 7:20 PM Romain Manni-Bucau > <mailto:rmannibu...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Arif,
> >
want
to use modules (but there is no real reason to do that yet in java).
Romain Manni-Bucau
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wledge about the setup
(like for validates runners which are not "just tests") and there is no
trivial way to make the IDE aware of it until you generate the IDE files
(.idea)
> On 01.10.18 23:32, Romain Manni-Bucau wrote:
> > Personally i drop all caches - idea + ivy + mav
Personally i drop all caches - idea + ivy + maven beam folder, build in
console skipping test execution - important cause idea is not able to
import the project without a correctly ran gradle setup and a failure can
corrupt later imports, then I kill gradle daemon and finally import beam in
idea us
+1 tested spark local and a 1 node cluster, direct runner and java test
tools
Le mar. 25 sept. 2018 13:08, Łukasz Gajowy a
écrit :
> +1
>
> I ran the Java - Quickstart on core runners (local) and Dataflow
> Quickstarts (on Dataflow instance) either way. Looks good. I wanted to
> learn how easy i
ou have any progress on this? One thing I
>>>>>>> would like to point out is that 2.7.0 isn't yet pushed to Maven
>>>>>>> Central, so
>>>>>>> referring to it by version is not expected to work (and it looks like
>>>&g
x27;t test userClassPathFirst
option of spark but it can be an interesting thing to enable in beam runner.
However it is still very confusing to have it not running just upgrading
beam version and the spark error is very hard to understand.
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau>
gt; > mailto:aromanenko@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Perhaps it could help, but I run simple WordCount (built with
> > Beam 2.7) on YARN/Spark (HDP Sandbox) cluster and it worked fine
> > for me.
> >
> >> On 14 Sep
@Charles: just "mvn verify" (it is an integration-test)
Romain Manni-Bucau
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Lin
v2.7.0. I dont have much time this week to check out this particular issue
but hopefully next one should be more doable if the issue is still pending.
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> | Blog
<https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/> | Ol
Le ven. 14 sept. 2018 à 09:48, Robert Bradshaw a
écrit :
> On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 8:00 AM Romain Manni-Bucau
> wrote:
>
>> Well IBM runner is outside Beam for instance so this is not really a
>> point IMHO.
>>
>> My view is simple:
>> 1. does this module
ke it doable and not add a dead module to beam tree.
Am I missing anything?
Romain Manni-Bucau
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means Google should find another
way to manage this dependency if this is the case IMHO.
Romain Manni-Bucau
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ms to be a
regression since 2.6 works OOTB.
Romain Manni-Bucau
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If usable by itself without google karma (can you use a worker without
dataflow itself?) it sounds awesome otherwise it sounds weird IMHO.
Le jeu. 13 sept. 2018 21:36, Kai Jiang a écrit :
> +1 (non googler)
>
> big help for transparency and for future runners.
>
> Best,
> Kai
>
> On Thu, Sep 13,
Hi guys,
Isnt the issue "only" that beam has this code instead of engines?
Assuming beam runner facing api is stable - which must be the case anyway -
and that each engine has its integration (flink-beam instead of
beam-runners-flink), then this issue disappears by construction.
It also has the
ng non beam issues with such a delivery
which is a blocker to upgrade. So beam alone is ok but if you add anything
- and since you will likely for any pipeline - then your app is no more in
a workable state while shades are a recommended solution.
> On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 2:48 PM Romain
just by a quick visual check. It requires you to add tooling on top of
it which is not really good overall. Wonder if it wouldn't be better to
revert that if it can't be completed short term and reapplied when possible
(probably using a working branch).
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau
like the new shading policy impl was merged a bit too fast ;)
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LinkedIn <
samples. Let me try to reproduce and I
>> will create the Jira.
>>
>> Regards
>> JB
>>
>> On 11/09/2018 11:44, Romain Manni-Bucau wrote:
>> > -1, seems spark integration is broken (tested with spark 2.3.1 and
>> 2.2.1):
>> >
workarounds can be
put in place so +1 to fix it as well if possible.
Romain Manni-Bucau
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fires when the pipeline shuts down). I
>> believe that SDF support is being added to the portability layer now, so
>> eventually all portable runners will support it, and maybe we can live with
>> the status quo until then.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 9:59 PM Romain
g time).
>
> The answer might be that Beam does not have a good lifecycle story here,
> and something needs to be built.
>
> Reuven
>
> On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 10:04 PM Romain Manni-Bucau
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Andrew,
>>
>> IIRC sources should clean up th
Hi Pablo,
+1, tested on my apps and libs and words after some fixed due to some
breaking changes in ArgProvider - but guess it is not "public" to need to
be reported.
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> | Blog
<https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net
Hi Andrew,
IIRC sources should clean up their resources per method since they dont
have a better lifecycle. Readers can create anything longer and release it
at close time.
Le mer. 1 août 2018 00:31, Andrew Pilloud a écrit :
> Some of our IOs create external resources that need to be cleaned u
Awesome Etienne, this is really important for the (user) community to have
that visibility since it is one of the most important aspect of the Beam's
quality, kudo!
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> | Blog
<https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/>
Hi guys,
answering a question on slack i realized flink
ExecutableStageDoFnOperator.java uses JUL instead of SLF4J, not sure it is
intended so thought I would mention it here.
Side note: archetype and some test code does as well but it is less an
issue.
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <ht
+1 sounds very good
side note: any channel must invite @asfarchivebot, I did it for the ones
before "etc" but if you add others please ensure it is done
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> | Blog
<https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net
+1 (same tests than for take #1)
Le dim. 17 juin 2018 07:18, Jean-Baptiste Onofré a écrit :
> Hi everyone,
>
> Please review and vote on the release candidate #2 for the version
> 2.5.0, as follows:
>
> [ ] +1, Approve the release
> [ ] -1, Do not approve the release (please provide specific com
Hi guys
If you take back this thread [1], then beam will only support two branches
and no others.
On the shortcut release cycle it is not really desired at apache and not
the normal process so the 3 days vote is required but not a blocker IMHO.
If really an issue the merge can be done quickly on
eeds to find back or
create the right classloader and when the last instance using this
classloader disappear it destroys it.
Romain Manni-Bucau
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/org/talend/sdk/component/runtime/manager/asm/ProxyGenerator.java#L118
.
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 9:56 PM Romain Manni-Bucau
> wrote:
>
>> Note sure the example is atomic enough but in
>> https://github.com/Talend/component-runtime/blob/master/component-runtime-
+1 (non-binding), mainstream usage is not broken by the pom changes and
runtime has no known regression compared to the 2.4.0
(side note: kudo to JB for this build tool change release, I know how it
can hurt ;))
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> | Blog
33, Lukasz Cwik a écrit :
> Romain, can you point to an example of a global singleton registry that
> does this right for class loading (it may allow people to work towards such
> an effort)?
>
> On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 10:06 PM Romain Manni-Bucau
> wrote:
>
>> It is actuall
Also maybe deactivate the daemon (--no-daemon) since its cache can get
corrupted ~easily.
Romain Manni-Bucau
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It is actually very localised in runner code where beam should reset the
classloader when the deserialization happens and then the runner owns the
classloader all the way in evaluators.
If IO change the classloader they must indeed handle it too and patch the
deserialization too.
Here again (we m
ck. I'd
>>> like to understand your concerns. Also keep in mind that I'm tagging all
>>> these classes as Experimental for now, so we can definitely change these
>>> interfaces around if we decide they are not the best ones.
>>>
>>> Reuven
>>
once distributed you serialized the
instances so kind of broke the lifecycle of the original instance and have
no real release/close hook on them anymore right? Not sure we can do better
than dofn/source embedded instances today.
Le mer. 23 mai 2018 08:02, Romain Manni-Bucau a
écrit :
>
>
Also it needs to ensure all converters are present before running the
pipeline probably, no implicit environment converter support is probably
good to start to avoid late surprises.
> My $0.01
>
> Regards
> JB
>
> On 23/05/2018 07:51, Romain Manni-Bucau wrote:
> > How does
. This is why it can require some way to not recreate it. A
quick fix, if you are in bytebuddy already, can be to add it to
setup/teardown pby, being more global would be nicer but is more
challenging.
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> | Blog
<https://rmannib
nd here)?
If so, how an IO can use as() with the type it expects? Doesnt it lead to
have a tons of these modules at the end?
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> | Blog
<https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/> | Old Blog
<http://rmannibucau.wordpres
écrit :
> We can do even better btw. Building a SchemaRegistry where automatic
> conversions can be registered between schema and Java data types. With this
> the user won't even need a DoFn to do the conversion.
>
> On Tue, May 22, 2018, 10:13 AM Romain Manni-Bucau
&
for now, at least for IO and some
user transforms.
Wdyt?
Le ven. 27 avr. 2018 18:36, Romain Manni-Bucau a
écrit :
> Can give it a try end of may, sure. (holidays and work constraints will
> make it hard before).
>
> Le 27 avr. 2018 18:26, "Anton Kedin" a écrit :
>
ecially for pipelines that are not in the same language as
>> the runner-core, such as for Python and Go.
>>
>> It's not clear to me what runners would be doing in that scenario either.
>> Do you have a proposal about where the interface boundaries would be?
>>
&g
forts.
>>
>> > Technically, there is plenty to agree with. I think as you learn about
>> Beam you will find that many of your suggestions are already handled in
>> some way. You may also continue to learn sometimes about the specific
>> reasons things are done in a differen
ly N api). it must embrace the environments it
runs in and assume the constraints it brings. And finally it should be less
intrusive in all its layers and try to add features more transversally when
possible (and it is possible in a lot of cases). If you bring features for
free with new releases, everybo
that time to process things and potentially advise/steer the
> conversation.
>
> On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 12:42 PM, Kenneth Knowles wrote:
>
>> Romain,
>>
>> You probably did not mean to, but I think this message crosses outside
>> the expected code of con
urrent impl track, revert
it and move to a higher level runner?
> Andrew
>
> On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 8:53 AM Romain Manni-Bucau
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Le mer. 9 mai 2018 17:41, Eugene Kirpichov a
>> écrit :
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On
Le mer. 9 mai 2018 17:41, Eugene Kirpichov a écrit :
>
>
> On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 1:08 AM Romain Manni-Bucau
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Le mer. 9 mai 2018 00:57, Henning Rohde a écrit :
>>
>>> There are indeed lots of possibilities for interesting dock
Le mer. 9 mai 2018 00:57, Henning Rohde a écrit :
> There are indeed lots of possibilities for interesting docker alternatives
> with different tradeoffs and capabilities, but in generally both the runner
> as well as the SDK must support them for it to work. As mentioned, docker
> (as used in th
Le mar. 8 mai 2018 10:16, Robert Bradshaw a écrit :
> On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 1:30 AM Romain Manni-Bucau
> wrote:
>
> > Wow, this mail should be on the website Robert, thanks for it
>
> > I still have a point to try to understand better: my view is that once
> subm
rFnObjectInJava,
> executing everything as if it were pure Java. In particular the overheads
> of unnecessarily crossing the language boundaries many times in a single
> fused graph are often prohibitive.
>
> Sorry for the long email, but hopefully this helps shed some light on (at
>
it would be reasonable to keep an
>>> eye on it as a potential future lightweight alternative to containers for
>>> pipelines where Graal's level of support is sufficient for this particular
>>> pipeline.
>>>
>>> Please also keep in mind that ex
y to frame this: if Beam was originally written in Go, we
> would be having a different discussion. A pipeline written entirely in java
> wouldn't be possible, so instead to enable Hazelcast, we would have to be
> able to run the java from portability without running the container.
&g
include a spark cluster, plus
> what's needed for portability, plus the beam sdk.
>
> > On Fri, May 4, 2018, 11:55 PM Romain Manni-Bucau
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >> Le 5 mai 2018 08:43, "Reuven Lax" a écrit :
>
> >> I don't believe we
a colleague hit that yesterday :(.
What is a "beam cluster" - opposed to a spark or foink cluster? How would
it work on windows servers?
On Fri, May 4, 2018, 11:19 PM Romain Manni-Bucau
wrote:
>
>
> 2018-05-05 2:33 GMT+02:00 Andrew Pilloud :
>
>> What docker
es a great number of tangible problems for us
>> with IMO a relatively small tax. It does not have to be the only way. Some
>> of the concerns you bring up along with possibilities were also discussed
>> here: https://s.apache.org/beam-fn-api-container-contract. I encourage
>&g
rely fine for some runners to use Jython, Graal, etc to
provide a specialized offering similar to the direct runners, but it would
be disjoint from portability IMO.
On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 10:14 AM Romain Manni-Bucau
wrote:
>
>
> Le 4 mai 2018 17:55, "Lukasz Cwik" a écrit :
>
an and actually portable and doesnt
impact runners as poc done until today did.
Works for me.
On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 10:05 PM Romain Manni-Bucau
wrote:
> Hi guys
>
> Since some time there are efforts to have a language portable support in
> beam but I cant really find a case it "wor
Hi guys
Since some time there are efforts to have a language portable support in
beam but I cant really find a case it "works" being based on docker except
for some vendor specific infra.
Current solution:
1. Is runner intrusive (which is bad for beam and prevents adoption of big
data vendors)
2
Hi Scott
While https://issues.apache.org/jira/plugins/servlet/mobile#issue/BEAM-4057
is open, gradle is a concurrent of maven but maven must stay the default
build tool cause gradle breaks users.
Le 1 mai 2018 01:59, "Scott Wegner" a écrit :
> Many many of you have been hacking diligently on t
Le 30 avr. 2018 19:39, "Jean-Baptiste Onofré" a écrit :
Hi guys,
now that I'm back from vacations, I bring back 2.5.0 release on the table ;)
This is also related to the current status of build (Maven/Gradle).
FYI, I gonna start the Jira triage tomorrow and I launched couple of build
on my
mac
e it not the best choice my opinion,
> but I may be wrong. Can you put together a design doc or a prototype?
>
> Thank you,
> Anton
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 10:17 PM Romain Manni-Bucau
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Le 26 avr. 2018 23:13, "Anton Kedin&qu
the point of Row/Schema is to avoid it and define
everything in Beam model, which can be extended, mapped to JSON, Avro,
BigQuery Schemas, custom binary format etc., with same semantics across
beam SDKs.
This is what jsonp would allow with the benefit of a natural pojo support
through jsonb.
t;> could be another one.
>>
>> Regards
>> JB
>> Le 26 avr. 2018, à 12:08, Romain Manni-Bucau a
>> écrit:
>>>
>>> Hmm,
>>>
>>> avro has still the pitfalls to have an uncontrolled stack which brings
>>> way too much
+1, thks Etienne for the hard work and to have spent time on it even if
gradle was making it more complicated, really appreciated.
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> | Blog
<https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/> | Old Blog
<http://rmannibucau.wordpres
Do you want to give it a try doing a PR on
https://github.com/apache/beam-site? Better to fix an issue by the person
getting the issue in general in that area ;)
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> | Blog
<https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/> | Ol
Hi John,
The fact a runner caches a fn per thread is an internal implementation
detail but a fn will only be activated by one thread max at a time (like
stateless or any object pool).
This means your fn can fail.
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> | Blog
Hmm,
avro has still the pitfalls to have an uncontrolled stack which brings way
too much dependencies to be part of any API,
this is why I proposed a JSON-P based API (JsonObject) with a custom beam
entry for some metadata (headers "à la Camel").
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibu
s between modules and determine
the impact of a change ("what is the common part" ~ parent+bom, "what does
it impact if we change that dep"). It can be key for beam to keep that to
ensure upstream projects can determine some of their impacts statically
through mavenrepo tools.
>
Hi Alex
When i built sirona I started this way: counters, gauges, validations
(healthcheck).
It works not bad and enables distributed aggregations but when you think
about it, it is a very limited set of what you want as a user. Quickly you
will want exceptions and audit event etc..
This all lea
Hmm, gradle move not supposed to break any user and there are other parents
usages, as mentionned previously, so not sure beam can really bypass it.
Maven discussed consumer vs build pom since years for that reason ;).
Le 26 avr. 2018 01:59, "Eric Beach" a écrit :
> Thanks Scott and Ben.
>
> Thi
beam.apache.org%3E or work on
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/BEAM-3608 and similar to improve
> things. Should be very easy now. I didn't work on it because work on poms
> is throwaway. Now is a good time to pick it up.
>
> Kenn
>
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 12:10 AM
s up the libs in both. This is critical to let ops handle
vulnerabilities properly and without impacting the whole company ecosystem
in a lot of cases.
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> | Blog
<https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/> | Old Blog
<http
s.
>>
>> Sorry for the delay, I was busy.
>>
>> Regards
>> JB
>> Le 18 mars 2018, à 19:57, Innocent Djiofack a
>> écrit:
>>>
>>> Thanks Romain!
>>>
>>> 2018-03-18 14:17 GMT-04:00 Romain Manni-Bucau :
>>>
>>&
No, otherwise it wouldnt pass in idea and maven.
Le 19 avr. 2018 00:57, "Kenneth Knowles" a écrit :
Does the test think a thread leaked when no thread leaked?
On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 1:51 PM Romain Manni-Bucau
wrote:
> The leaking threadq are already dumped but we dont track w
gt; dynamic analysis since it is not very practical to unit test for leaks
> (thread, memory, file handle, whatever) and other global correctness
> criteria.
>
> Kenn
>
> On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 10:13 AM Romain Manni-Bucau
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Le 18 avr. 2
commits@ or dev@ are common choices. Others are generally redundant or
means it is ignored by everybody which is fine but means you just drop
notif from jira instead of redirecting them ;)
Just my 2 cts
Le 18 avr. 2018 20:55, "Kenneth Knowles" a écrit :
> Annoyingly, it appears that the reporte
://docs.gradle.org/current/dsl/org.gradle.api.
tasks.testing.Test.html#org.gradle.api.tasks.testing.Test:maxParallelForks
[5] https://docs.gradle.org/current/dsl/org.gradle.api.
tasks.testing.Test.html#org.gradle.api.tasks.testing.Test:forkEvery
On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 10:03 AM Romain Manni-Bucau
eful behavior. That
> said, I'm not sure how it interacts with Idea.
>
> Kenn
>
> On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 12:23 AM Romain Manni-Bucau
> wrote:
>
>> If you dont the diff is empty and gradle runs nothing, no? Saw it with
>> gradle 4.6
>>
>> Le 15
If you dont the diff is empty and gradle runs nothing, no? Saw it with
gradle 4.6
Le 15 avr. 2018 00:49, "Kenneth Knowles" a écrit :
> You shouldn't do :module:cleanTest. If that is necessary that's a major
> bug in the build.
>
> Kenn
>
> On Fri, Apr 1
8 at 11:14 AM Reuven Lax wrote:
>
>> Is there a Jira for this 3 second delay? Also you're initial complaint
>> was not about the 3 second delay, so it wasn't clear that's what you were
>> complaining about.
>>
>> Reuven
>>
>> On Fri, Apr
Reuven
On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 9:47 PM Daniel Oliveira
wrote:
> Sorry Romain, I'm not quite sure what you're asking. Can you clarify?
>
> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 12:22 PM Romain Manni-Bucau
> wrote:
>
>> Well you are the only one to not have the drawbacks to us
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