Re: Become the IMAP client for documents [Re: Differentiate or Die]
Yeah I mean weird. Xen schrieb am So., 18. Sep. 2016, 15:17: > Peter Kovacs schreef op 18-09-2016 5:38: > > >> I don't know how much can be gained by simply using an alternative > >> that is in essence, the same kind of program. I still won't have cloud > >> access and will be far away from using something like Google Drive or > >> OneDrive. > > btw. have you tried dropbox? > > they have an official Linux client. > > > I wouldn't really ever feel safe with Dropbox. > > That's just disaster waiting to happen, in a way. > > > > > I recommend the documentary: indi games: the movie. Gives you an Idea > > on why people do wired things. > > You mean weird? > > I am not really talking about those kinda guys. I am really talking > about games that have no market at all. Downloading the film though. > When Diablo II was released it was not a many-million-dollar budget > game. Of course they had professional musicians and all of that. > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > > -- Disclaimer: Diese Nachricht stammt aus einem Google Account. Ihre Antwort wird in der Google Cloud Gespeichert und durch Google Algorythmen zwecks werbeanaöysen gescannt. Es ist derzeit nicht auszuschließen das ihre Nachricht auch durch einen NSA Mitarbeiter geprüft wird. Durch kommunikation mit diesen Account stimmen Sie zu das ihre Mail, ihre Kontaktdaten und die Termine die Sie mit mir vereinbaren online zu Google konditionen in der Googlecloud gespeichert wird. Sollten sie dies nicht wünschen kontaktieren sie mich bitte Umgehend um z.B. alternativen zu verhandeln.
Re: Become the IMAP client for documents [Re: Differentiate or Die]
Peter Kovacs schreef op 18-09-2016 5:38: I don't know how much can be gained by simply using an alternative that is in essence, the same kind of program. I still won't have cloud access and will be far away from using something like Google Drive or OneDrive. btw. have you tried dropbox? they have an official Linux client. I wouldn't really ever feel safe with Dropbox. That's just disaster waiting to happen, in a way. I recommend the documentary: indi games: the movie. Gives you an Idea on why people do wired things. You mean weird? I am not really talking about those kinda guys. I am really talking about games that have no market at all. Downloading the film though. When Diablo II was released it was not a many-million-dollar budget game. Of course they had professional musicians and all of that. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Become the IMAP client for documents [Re: Differentiate or Die]
On 17.09.2016 17:10, Xen wrote: I had not known about it, so thank you. I am not impressed with its looks, but they don't feature large size screenshots, so I don't know. you are welcome. I was also not impressed. the last writing tool that impressed me was Scribus. However that tool is really bad with tables. [...] I don't know how much can be gained by simply using an alternative that is in essence, the same kind of program. I still won't have cloud access and will be far away from using something like Google Drive or OneDrive. btw. have you tried dropbox? they have an official Linux client. Migrating to a non-prominent tool for me is never a very appealing thing. It's the same with computer games: there are a 100.000 of them but only a few that really appeal. The "no name" or "B-brand" computer games generally are not that interesting and I wonder why companies even *try*. If you do something, at least try to be the best, and don't just copy what another has done in the hopes of some success. With computer games, this is often shown with the lack of creative story. I recommend the documentary: indi games: the movie. Gives you an Idea on why people do wired things. I believe Open Source as such has no Market interest. They exist as long as someone has the Code. Development is not the main focus. That almost sounds like it is just a storage place for projects, a dump place of sorts, where projects can retire ;-). I am sure Oracle had the same thought. ;-) All the best. Peter - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Become the IMAP client for documents [Re: Differentiate or Die]
> -Original Message- > From: Xen [mailto:l...@xenhideout.nl] > Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 12:57 > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > Subject: Re: Become the IMAP client for documents [Re: Differentiate or > Die] > > toki schreef op 17-09-2016 17:52: > > On 17/09/2016 10:46, Peter Kovacs wrote: > > > >> (Maybe WPS is a good alternate to you then. I read in the german > Linux > > > > Why would a program whose developers, in the name of destroying the > > user > > experience, removed features, functionalities, and capabilities. The > > only user case in which that is a virtue, is one in which the user has > > no qualms about not being able to open documents created with the > > software. > > After reading some threads on a Dutch review site I can't say I have > really seen any positive reviews or remarks about WPS. Most of that came > down to ill compatibility with MS products. I am sure it works fine on > its own but also cannot save or open(?) in ODT. > > I'm not sure if it is still based on OpenOffice? [orcmid] Current versions of WPS do not support ODF Formats. Only Microsoft Office formats are supported, beside the native .wps format. The Windows version uses Qt and while one might see similarities in the GUI, I don't think there is any meaningful connection with OpenOffice. The "native" .wps format does not use a Zip package. LibreOffice opens it though. It is in the Microsoft DocFile format and could be a flavor of .doc. Also, the software installs in AppData\Local\Kingsoft\WPS Office\ (on Windows 10). It all appears very smooth. I have no idea about the quality of Microsoft format support, including OOXML. [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Become the IMAP client for documents [Re: Differentiate or Die]
toki schreef op 17-09-2016 17:52: On 17/09/2016 10:46, Peter Kovacs wrote: (Maybe WPS is a good alternate to you then. I read in the german Linux Why would a program whose developers, in the name of destroying the user experience, removed features, functionalities, and capabilities. The only user case in which that is a virtue, is one in which the user has no qualms about not being able to open documents created with the software. After reading some threads on a Dutch review site I can't say I have really seen any positive reviews or remarks about WPS. Most of that came down to ill compatibility with MS products. I am sure it works fine on its own but also cannot save or open(?) in ODT. I'm not sure if it is still based on OpenOffice? Seeing the number of changes they have made to their (international) versions and their name, I don't think they have a very consistent outlook on the thing. It seems rather 'spurious' or haphazard. Very successful in China apparently. And the Android app is apparently greatly recommended over any alternative (so for tablet use etc). Recent free versions should have less limitations (no watermark on printing) but may still not save in .docx format. Personally I generally mistrust Chinese products. I have only once tried a Chinese email client, and it was not a good product. I also hardly trust their "phone home" capabilities, but that aside. I tend to want to filter Chinese products through Japanese or western agencies ;-). Also never really happy with the cheap stuff I order from the cheap websites... it just feels dirty to me, except one time with some plugs. So I don't really think WPS is a good alternative, but then I also don't really know what you mean here, Toki ;-). Regards. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Become the IMAP client for documents [Re: Differentiate or Die]
On 17/09/2016 10:46, Peter Kovacs wrote: > (Maybe WPS is a good alternate to you then. I read in the german Linux Why would a program whose developers, in the name of destroying the user experience, removed features, functionalities, and capabilities. The only user case in which that is a virtue, is one in which the user has no qualms about not being able to open documents created with the software. jonathon - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Become the IMAP client for documents [Re: Differentiate or Die]
Peter Kovacs schreef op 17-09-2016 12:46: Hello I have a question. I dont know the Open Document Foundation. But maybe they work on it. I mean they forked from Oracle OpenOffice because they were frustrated that the errors were not fixed. I personly do not know, but I would not be surprised if Apache Foundation as the successor to Oracle has not has such structures. I think classic way is within Apaches Foundation that they cooperate with one or more interst groups (free devlopers, communities, cooperations / Companies) that has an interest in development of the Product. With this method different Companies can cooperate in order to achieve their individual goals and save money with synergy. Can someone maybe enlight this point? Am I right? So the question is which Structures does Apache Open Office offers to users? Xen are you willing to pay a sum in order to get a fullfillment of your needs? - Or is it more important to you that the feature you need already exist? (Maybe WPS is a good alternate to you then. I read in the german Linux magazin (I think latest edition) that they are pretty stable and quite good on working with docx.) I had not known about it, so thank you. I am not impressed with its looks, but they don't feature large size screenshots, so I don't know. I hesitate to go to completely new solutions particularly if it means abandoning what I am already familiar with and also if it is not actually a new type of solution, but really more of the same. Something like Google Docs is, of course, inspiring. I am also a developer. I don't know how much can be gained by simply using an alternative that is in essence, the same kind of program. I still won't have cloud access and will be far away from using something like Google Drive or OneDrive. At least on Linux, and even though on Windows these things are obviously much easier I don't want to bitch here but Windows usage is not very possible for me just yet. Having stuff in the Cloud is even a form of data security for me. I have little to hide at this point and just having secure data (not losing it) is more important than any thoughts of "oh google". Migrating to a non-prominent tool for me is never a very appealing thing. It's the same with computer games: there are a 100.000 of them but only a few that really appeal. The "no name" or "B-brand" computer games generally are not that interesting and I wonder why companies even *try*. If you do something, at least try to be the best, and don't just copy what another has done in the hopes of some success. With computer games, this is often shown with the lack of creative story. I believe Open Source as such has no Market interest. They exist as long as someone has the Code. Development is not the main focus. That almost sounds like it is just a storage place for projects, a dump place of sorts, where projects can retire ;-). I realize what I say could be visionary or "different" or challenging or odd or weird or non-functional. It is just that I approach it as a developer with a bit of an entrepeneurial mind. I see the potential for something, you just have to believe in it. Not saying I can do it, but if people would be inspired with the same, I would not be the last to be interested to join in on that. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Become the IMAP client for documents [Re: Differentiate or Die]
Hello I have a question. I dont know the Open Document Foundation. But maybe they work on it. I mean they forked from Oracle OpenOffice because they were frustrated that the errors were not fixed. I personly do not know, but I would not be surprised if Apache Foundation as the successor to Oracle has not has such structures. I think classic way is within Apaches Foundation that they cooperate with one or more interst groups (free devlopers, communities, cooperations / Companies) that has an interest in development of the Product. With this method different Companies can cooperate in order to achieve their individual goals and save money with synergy. Can someone maybe enlight this point? Am I right? So the question is which Structures does Apache Open Office offers to users? Xen are you willing to pay a sum in order to get a fullfillment of your needs? - Or is it more important to you that the feature you need already exist? (Maybe WPS is a good alternate to you then. I read in the german Linux magazin (I think latest edition) that they are pretty stable and quite good on working with docx.) I believe Open Source as such has no Market interest. They exist as long as someone has the Code. Development is not the main focus. All the best. Peter On 16.09.2016 13:40, Xen wrote: Phillip Rhodes schreef op 08-09-2016 22:18: So anyway, just wanted to seed this discussion and hopefully provoke some serious thinking around this. Let's think hard about what we want to be so that we can easily say "Why develop/use AOO instead of X?" type questions. I just wanted to take this opportunity to voice my ideas again ;-). I will keep it short this time. I am a user who is disgrunted by both the features and stability of LibreOffice and probably also OpenOffice, since many features are the same. One important feature for me is a GOOD undo facility and both products don't have it, because they don't store, or merge, block level undo's resulting from typing. In mostly any editor I can go infinitely into the past as I undo stuff but in OO and LO it is limited to a few sentences at most. Last time this happened I swore to never use LO again and started using Google Docs. The only reason I am not using Microsoft Office (365) now is that there is no Linux variant of it. Given these flaws and failings for me (and sometimes LO just crashes and takes your work with you and it is unrecoverable) and given the fact that I think OO looks outdated (on Linux), I would have ventured in the past that these were the most important things for me: * I do not want to be exclusively dependent on the ODT format editors anymore - In Windows I have much better fonts available (or more of them) than in Linux - Even Google Docs just has much better fonts than Linux and it even has the Linux fonts, so there you ahve that. * I would like AOO (or anything) to be a glue between the platforms. Cloud is becoming very important or is already so. Being able to reference documents on Google Drive can be important. Being able to reference documents on Microsoft OneDrive can be important. - Google Docs natively saves.. or ehm, downloads, documents in .docx, but can also process .odt, I believe. So in order to stay relevant you must focus, for instance, on perfect interoperability between AOO and the .docx that result from Google Docs. - Since there is no Microsoft Office client on Linux, and neither do they have an online editor, it becomes product to become that client to Microsoft OneDrive that can also edit or save in .docx format. Now there are a few meagre solutions for using OneDrive on Linux, but it is not much. Suppose AOO had its own OneDrive client plugin? That you could use AOO to browse and modify, load and save, documents on OneDrive? Just the same as that Microsoft Office would do, is what I mean. Just become cloud-ready. Just allow a person to save on OneDrive. * Fix the OpenOffice looks (at least on Linux). That black hard shadow behind the "page" is not good enough anymore. Make sure it looks nice enough and start with that thick black border. Google Docs works awesomely if a bit slow (due to the internet connection) and you can't do everything you can do in a regular editor (particularly positioning and such things) (and you can only choose a few font sizes) but in general (apart from not being able to actually manually really save stuff) the editing experience is much nice than either OpenOffice or LibreOffice. And it's just a new product, right. It's not perfect but looks much better than anything else I've seen and you don't run the risk of losing your content, that I constantly have with LibreOffice/OO. I have probably lost important court battles due to LibreOffice. So I will say 3 things: - fix the looks - interoperate with OneDrive and Google Drive if possible (OneDrive more important) and ensure perfect compability with these form
Re: Become the IMAP client for documents [Re: Differentiate or Die]
Dennis E. Hamilton schreef op 16-09-2016 18:23: However, OneDrive does accept ODT documents and they can be viewed on-line via Microsoft Office Web Apps (now called Office Online). There is online editing although it might require being a Microsoft Office user. I will have to check that. Also, it might be that a Linux-operating browser isn't compatible with what the Web Apps require. Oh, apologies. I seriously had not been able to find "Office Online" when I had searched for it :-/. I haven't been able to test it and the site is very slow, also your screens didn't make it through(?). I can say I instantly dislike it though. But then, I dislike most of anything Microsoft does these days (that started with Windows 7 and the ribbon and the new configuration screen and start menu, and got much worse with Windows 8). I probably personally could not get myself to use this product (Office Online) even though it seems to work fine with Linux (I am not an exclusive Linux user, but for now..) and Google Docs is just a much better product from my point of view, but I myself am currently also a Lumia user (and I detest it) and because Google has its accounts linked to everything (YouTube, etc.) I run a much larger risk of having to dump my "Google Accounts" because something happens in one of the other "services" that makes me want to get rid of it. This is why personally I hesitate strongly to use Google for anything permanent or even persistent. For me, Microsoft is only : OneDrive and my (this) phone. Microsoft is also more married to the platform (of Windows). So for me personally Microsoft has a great advantage because the chances that I will dump my Microsoft account "for no good reason" are just much slimmer (knocks on dead wood). Microsoft software is abysmal compared to android from my POV. But the platform itself has advantages for me (Windows 10, OneDrive). I guess my stance on OpenOffice should change. But I still think there are two aspects that speak in its favour: * the desktop is being abandoned by many suppliers. However it is in part hype. Tablets are not really that usable and even hybrid devices have their detriments. They are not sturdy, you can lose components, you cannot replace batteries, etc. etc. Ideally there'd be cloud services offered by smaller suppliers that do not have to be as big as the big software companies but that can "tackle on" to a larger framework where actual hosting is done by independents of some sort, but the framework is supported by a community or industry standard. * Microsoft software is just very poor ;-). LibreOffice does not really target Windows users at all. I hardly doubt I can find a person within 10 minutes of searching on the street (I live in a city centre, and it is friday night) who has ever heard about LibreOffice if I tried. Well, one person would, but it was a techie, and another whom I meet now and then is also a programmer. "Free Software" does not inspire anyone outside of tech, really, apart from the fact that you don't have to pay money for it. People are perfectly fine with not being in "control" of their devices in that sense. As long as their devices do what needs to be done, they don't give jack shit about who is doing it or who controls the software, mostly. So if LibreOffice's only selling point is "FOSS" or because of its superior build system or because of its lean code, well... that only applies to programmers, and programmer-lovers, not to actual real people. I use LibreOffice today because it looks better, but even though I don't like it, I really have to use Google Docs or risk losing my work due to crashes or the inability to undo. Of course (???) people mention that developing for LibreOffice is much easier (?) than for AOO. But LibreOffice really has no future other than becoming like the only open source Linux solution that exists. There is not going to be a future where Windows or Mac users will ever want to know about it. People are not interested in a product that only has great quality code, but not great quality features or anything of the kind. So the future for AOO, if there is any, still lies with Windows users mostly. It is still the free alternative, but these days the free alternative must also support cloud services. That's all I can say. If Microsoft software doesn't support ODF all that well, then maybe you just have to deal with that in a way. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Become the IMAP client for documents [Re: Differentiate or Die]
Minor touch-up about OneDrive and Microsoft Office Web Apps. > -Original Message- > From: Xen [mailto:l...@xenhideout.nl] > Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 04:40 > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > Subject: Become the IMAP client for documents [Re: Differentiate or Die] > [ ... ] > - Since there is no Microsoft Office client on Linux, and neither do > they have an online editor, it becomes product to become that client to > Microsoft OneDrive that can also edit or save in .docx format. Now there > are a few meagre solutions for using OneDrive on Linux, but it is not > much. [orcmid] True, the Microsoft Office Linux client-penetration case is via Android. However, OneDrive does accept ODT documents and they can be viewed on-line via Microsoft Office Web Apps (now called Office Online). There is online editing although it might require being a Microsoft Office user. I will have to check that. Also, it might be that a Linux-operating browser isn't compatible with what the Web Apps require. I have attached two PNG that show an ODT being opened in Word Online from OneDrive. If they come through, you can see what the Microsoft Office Web apps look like. The browser in one case is Internet Explorer 11. In the second case, I used Chrome (and notice the offer of an Office Online Extension for Chrome). In both cases the document is a trivial .odt that I created just to be able to check to check on the improvement of Office Online support for ODF over time. PS: Since I have a Microsoft Lumia (Windows 10) smartphone, I just used the OneDrive application there to access the same file. In this case, the file requests permission to use an on-line conversion service and then opens the result as read-only and editing is only available if I allow the document to be saved in an Office format. An unfortunate aspect of this mobile OneDrive client is that it does not show filename extensions and I don't see any way to change that. There is a thumbnail icon, but it is for Word, so a .docx of the same name looks like a second copy of the same file. I have no idea how the OneDrive application manages and the Office mobile applications work together on Android and iOS. > > Suppose AOO had its own OneDrive client plugin? That you could use AOO > to browse and modify, load and save, documents on OneDrive? > > Just the same as that Microsoft Office would do, is what I mean. Just > become cloud-ready. Just allow a person to save on OneDrive. > [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org