or something similar.
--
Kevin P. Fleming
He/Him/His
Principal Program Manager, RHEL
Red Hat US/Eastern Time Zone
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using it is retroactively
> invalid.
As I understand it, Facebook does not even use -mno-omit-leaf-frame-pointer,
so their profiles will never include the callers of leaf functions, even
those that do set up a stack frame.
Kevin Kofler
_
-video-qxl fixing the build with the xorg-x11-server commit
you linked to.)
Kevin Kofler
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me.
That, too, means frame pointers cannot by design solve the problem which the
change intends to solve with them.
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being unable to be located. This inherently makes purely frame-
pointer-based unwinding unreliable.
Frame pointers sound like a simple solution to unwinding, but they are not.
They are no complete replacement for unwinding information.
Kevin Kofler
hread link to let people know about it on the Fedora
> Discussion forum and another forum outside Fedora. Then I noticed this
> issue.
Thanks for noting it. ;)
kevin
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> > is referred to by the following email by the References header's value.
This is likely because someone requested we delete their post in the
archives because they used the wrong address, and I fo
Siddhesh Poyarekar wrote:
> That came up in yesterday's FESCO meeting, so hopefully at least that
> workflow hole will be plugged:
Still does not help the current case though, unfortunately.
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les instead of thousands.
Well, yes, for you, but it's not so great for the user with the dead
modem or broken databases. :(
But I guess in the end a service that is ok with 120 seconds, but not ok
with 15 seconds would hopefully be quite rare.
I do appreciate the change to do an abort on these units.
there's a lot of difference between them and I can't see why it would change
things."
Indeed it didn't change anything for me, as I kept my -1 vote.
kevin
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On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 06:00:59PM -0600, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 10 2023 at 03:19:10 PM -0800, Kevin Fenzi
> wrote:
> > Is there something wrong with that approach that I am not understanding?
>
> No, I don't think you're missing anything. That should work fin
ound like a broken
record, so instead of a copy, here is the link:
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/CJ2P37D56LEDFKCZSBZ5LDSD53KH662B/
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fficult to resolve." but
can't we just change their timeout? ie, add to packagekitd's service
file:
TimeoutStopSec=30s
(or 15 or whatever)?
Is there something wrong with that approach that I am not understanding?
kevin
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Michael Catanzaro wrote:
> (In particular, I doubt the _FORTIFY_SOURCE=3 change was really a major
> consideration here.)
What was, then? That was literally the only thing that has changed between
the two diametrically different votes.
Kevin
this is just too
> high. We'd need double build infrastructure.
+100% CPU power for the Koji build farm is still a lot less overall cost
than +2.5% CPU power for *all* Fedora users in the entire world.
Kevin Kofler
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via epoch change or some
> patching
Providing the older soname is not possible with the new code. The way the
old package worked is that it actually contained both Lua 5.3 and Lua 5.4,
i.e., two completely different source trees, and the 5.3 sources were
unmaintained and insecure.
missed that some packages still depend on the old version
though. They need to be rebuilt.
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performance hit of this change due to the irregularly reached decision, and
nothing is being done to repair this before the damage is done.
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Am Dienstag, 10. Jänner 2023 08:25:27 CET schrieb Zbigniew
Jędrzejewski-Szmek:
On Mon, Jan 09, 2023 at 11:53:17PM +0100, Kevin Kofler via devel wrote:
No, the result is NOT why I got the impression that the vote
was rigged. The way that result was obtained is.
Exactly, you're just confirming
ith
https://apps.kde.org/massif-visualizer/
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reaches end users of stable releases
(if the impact is as bad as I fear)?
Kevin Kofler
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Am Montag, 9. Jänner 2023 23:06:17 CET schrieb Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek:
On Sun, Jan 08, 2023 at 06:06:47PM +0100, Kevin Kofler via devel wrote:
Kevin Kofler via devel wrote:
PS: The impression I get is that everything was deliberately
rigged so that
the vote would end up the way it did
ally wants it to happen. At most it could discourage such late
reconsiderations.
Kevin Kofler
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until the end of the week in which
it falls. And this year, January 6 was a Friday, so even more places were
on vacation until the end of the week.
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to the (IMHO unfair) comparison
with the _FORTIFY_SOURCE=3 change to switch back.
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Kevin Kofler via devel wrote:
> PS: The impression I get is that everything was deliberately rigged so
> that the vote would end up the way it did:
>
> 1. A new ticket was filed, in order to exclude the participants of the
> previous discussion.
> 2. The people watching t
Also, the pull request implementing the change was merged 6 days BEFORE the
change was approved by FESCo! It is unacceptable to sneak unapproved changes
into Rawhide this way in order to "create facts".
Kevin Kofler
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imeout:
>
> https://koschei.fedoraproject.org/affected-by/texlive-latex?epoch1=9=20210325=52.fc38=10=svn63825=55.fc38=f38
>
> Would be nice if that could be given more time to complete.
Looks like it takes about 45s for that to load.
I increased the timeout to 180s. :)
kevin
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iscussion to
quantify the size impact was completely ignored by the change proponents, so
we have no idea how badly this change will bloat Fedora. This should have
been the first question by FESCo, even before performance!
Kevin Kofler
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Kevin Kofler via devel wrote:
> 7. Only 4 days had elapsed between the (unannounced) opening of the ticket
> and the vote. This is clearly insufficient. The one week in the Change
Sorry, there were actually 6 days. Still, less than a week, and there was no
mailing list announ
Kevin Kofler via devel wrote:
> Still, it gives an extremely bad impression of rushing this through
> without giving anybody the chance to object.
>
> I also do not see why this needed to be approved for F38 on such a short
> notice and could not wait for F39.
PS: The i
Kevin Kofler via devel wrote:
> Also, for MSVC, /Oy- is documented to be supported on everything except
/Oy actually. /Oy- is the default (= -fno-omit-frame-pointer), /Oy is the
equivalent of -fomit-frame-pointer. But both are documented as unsupported
only for "x64 compilers".
_64 for some reason (SEH support?), but
apparently not on other architectures, or the documentation is wrong.
Kevin Kofler
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Fed
kground tasks, thermal throttling, etc. Yes, it is slower (up to a factor
~50), but only for the developer doing the profiling, and as explained
above, the reported cycle counts do not depend on the wallclock time anyway.
Kevin Kofler
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ajority support in FESCo and waiting extra
> week would collie with the mass rebuild.
Still, it gives an extremely bad impression of rushing this through without
giving anybody the chance to object.
I also do not see why this needed to be approved for F38 on such a short
notice and could not wait f
PS:
Kevin Kofler via devel wrote:
> The way this was done is so wrong:
> * There was a vote. You were not happy with the outcome.
> * So you first tried to complain in the original ticket about this. It was
> clear that the consensus in that ticket was to not reconsider at this
&g
lchain team's back. They are the experts.
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Michael Catanzaro wrote:
> Benchmarks probably won't improve.
And that alone is enough to make Fedora look bad and lose users to other
distributions that cater to the Phoronix crowd.
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Neal Gompa wrote:
> For what it's worth, frame pointers are required on other operating
> systems for precisely this reason
What operating systems REQUIRE frame pointers? GCC supports
-fomit-frame-pointer basically everywhere.
Kevin
re whereas this one is not. Of course, stricter FORTIFY_SOURCE
comes at a performance penalty, but it improves security for end users.
Frame pointers, on the other hand, bring no value whatsoever to end users,
only to developers.
In addition, if you believe the penalty
crates in source form only is the optimal
approach, for reasons I have already pointed out in other threads on this
list.)
I hope that the above now brings my point across constructively.
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ngelog fast-forwards just fine along with the rest of the commit.
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Matthew Miller wrote:
> Okay. no. This is not how we do things here.
Apologies for my snide remark that visibly came out rude, sorry.
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gelog only really reflects Rawhide. I just fast-forward
Rawhide to the release branch, and the Release tag and the changelog go
along with it. If that includes some "Rebuild for Fnn mass rebuild" entries
that do not really apply to the release branch, so be it. At least it
explains why
t to figure out
> *which* combinations to build, and *only* build these.)
The application can pick the options with which each library is compiled?
What a stupid idea! Now I understand why the language is called "Rust".
Kevin Kofler
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On Sat, Dec 31, 2022 at 03:37:34PM -0500, Stephen Smoogen wrote:
> On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 at 13:40, Kevin Kofler via devel <
> > https://docs.pagure.org/fedora-infra.rpmautospec/autochangelog.html#changelog-entries-generated-from-commit-messages
> >
> > All in all a very com
s, you can manually run "rpmautospec
generate-changelog", but that is actually no less effort than just taking
care of the changelog manually to begin with.
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Neal Gompa wrote:
> Can we please have gcc-rs also built (even though it's experimental)?
Will gcc-rs be able to generate usable shared libraries for Rust crates?
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message. (More precisely, I append to the pasted changelog entry
a blank line and one or more freeform paragraphs with the extra details.) I
do not want those to ever be automatically added to the RPM changelog
either.
Kevin Kofler
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B25SJ7W5R3P/
I've not tried it yet, but it's on my list to look at.
It looks like it mostly does everything the review_pr.py script did,
except you have to give it a src.rpm instead of just the pr.
(possibly that could be a RFE on mass prebuild?)
kevin
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some things (such as copying the encryption key) on their own computers. I
do not think that this is in either party's interest.
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ot a benefit.
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List Guide
east used to break the NVidia proprietary driver.
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ld call an "ABI
incompatible update".
Of course, the more packages depend on the library, the more you want to
avoid bumping their ABI in an update.
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; > dist-git works).
>
> Taken and I'm the bugzilla contact as well.
>
> Does "main admin" being "orphan" go away when background processes catch up
> with the changes I just made?
Yes. The existing bugs should be reassigned from orphan to you after
PL-3.0-only AND (MPL-2.0 OR Zlib)
> - colorful-data: zlib-acknowledgement
In case people wonder (as I did): This is a leaf package:
https://svgames.pl/en/down
https://github.com/suve/LD25/
> Colorful is a simple 2D side-shooter game
so the license change to a more restrictive license should n
with a huge proprietary firmware, which does most of the real work. Hardware
manufacturers love playing that trick.
Kevin Kofler
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s, a smaller image (thanks to stronger compression)
means less time and energy, and for users on metered connections also less
money, spent downloading the image.
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he use of GNOME Shell? A non-compositing X11 window
manager or a plain fbdev framebuffer would probably work fine without it,
would they not?
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as frustrating because it was effectively
> maintaining a small mini distro for the purposes of running the distro
> installer.
But this "converging" unfortunately means the installer image now runs
things like GDM which are definitely not needed to just bring u
Timothée Ravier wrote:
> If possible, as this is a new channel, I'd recommend going Matrix only.
> This makes things simpler.
But it locks out IRC users. So this is a bad recommendation.
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ng the wheel and are all
shipping Calamares instead. Which is written in a toolkit actually designed
for desktop applications (Qt).
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Kevin Kofler via devel wrote:
> 臘 A full-blown, 71 MB compressed (!) web browser just to show the UI for
> the installer!
PS: And I guess we will then also need to ship the langpacks, which are
another 42 MB compressed! (And in one monolithic package for all languages.)
Kevin
ess...
Build /usr/lib64/libLLVM-15.so with only the host as the target, and a
renamed /usr/lib64/libLLVM-cross-15.so with all the targets. Link the
compilers against the latter.
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s good as a prototype, but way too resource-heavy to be shipped
in production. We need a rewrite of the UI design in a desktop toolkit. (If
GTK is not suitable, how about Qt? ☺)
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7: 162M (last "old UI")
> Fedora 18: 294M (first "new UI")
> Fedora 23: 415M
> Fedora 28: 583M
> Fedora 33: 686M
> Fedora 37: 665M
> Fedora Rawhide: 703M
Wow, a factor 7!
Thank you for your efforts to track down and try to combat the bloat!
Kevin Kofler
__
aintainer for ncurses in Fedora if you want to do it that
way. And of course only as long as upstream continues supporting building
for the old ABI. If they drop support, then a separate compatibility package
with an old version that supports the old ABI will be needed.
ob into a patch adding dozens of new lines of code.
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re ImageMagick8, etc.)
for all newer versions, then we can slowly switch packages from ImageMagick
to ImageMagick7, or we go with your plan and move ImageMagick to version 7,
but then we should do all we can to make really everything use the new
version.
Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Mon, 2022-12-05 at 22:44 +0100, Kevin Kofler via devel wrote:
>> Mattia Verga via devel wrote:
>> > Or let's just get rid of Bodhi and trust all packagers to "know exactly
>> > what they are doing with their package".
>>
hould try CentOS or RHEL.
Or you can just build the compat package you need in a Copr, see, e.g.:
https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/kkofler/compat-libgfortran-48/
(which I do not really use anymore, but I have kept the Copr up in case it
is useful for other people
Mattia Verga via devel wrote:
> Or let's just get rid of Bodhi and trust all packagers to "know exactly
> what they are doing with their package".
Yes please!
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e is the CLI? Can there be things stopping to build
or to work at runtime because ImageMagick 7 convert does not understand some
option intended for ImageMagick 6 convert?
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To
ilds against a
> package.
But it is not practical given the performance concerns around side tags.
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Fedora
As I understand it, Mesa now supports desktop OpenGL everywhere, but missing
functionality is emulated in software, which is obviously slow.
Kevin Kofler
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.
I don't think thats at all normal. We had mass updates/reboots and there
was an issue with some ppc64le vm's not having the needed nfs mounts,
causing them to fail newrepo tasks. This would have been the timeframe
for that issue.
Can you try again now and see if the stable release sidetags are not
verride from releng is needed to fix
> > the
> > broken dependencies.
Yep. I've retagged the -2 one in and it should be fixed in the next
compose.
kevin
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om KDE (and a compatibility package for
that one was not needed because all the affected Qt5/KF5 applications were
able to be built against the qgpgme from upstream gpgme).
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ld remain in Fedora.
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//meetbot-raw.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2022-11-29/fesco.2022-11-29-17.00.log.txt
is truncated.
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Fedora Code o
There will be an outage starting at 2022-11-30 21:00 UTC
which will last approximately 5 hours.
To convert UTC to your local time, take a look at
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/UTCHowto
or run:
date -d '2022-11-30 21:00UTC'
Reason for outage:
We will be applying updates and
There will be an outage starting at 2022-11-30 21:00 UTC
which will last approximately 5 hours.
To convert UTC to your local time, take a look at
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/UTCHowto
or run:
date -d '2022-11-30 21:00UTC'
Reason for outage:
We will be applying updates and
On Sat, Nov 26, 2022 at 05:27:30PM -, Mattia Verga via devel wrote:
> @kevin I've announced on Bodhi matrix channel that I was planning to draft
> the new release, but since I received no response I've pushed out Bodhi 7.0.0.
>
> I have followed the SOP at [1] and bodhi-*
e
> different choices at each checkbox.
...snip...
Absoletely. There's a ton of variables that go into the decision, but I
think it's important for there to be some general guidance to err on the
side of not changing the user experence in stable rele
ten) saying
exceptions need to file for every update or can be just 'you have an
exception for this package/collection of packages unless something
changes'.
kevin
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ges during rc's,
then it means we have to update the package and do all the overhead
again.
I'm just not sure what utility the package has, wouldn't everyone just
get it from git and make sure they have the latest?
kevin
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leaves, but that's a bit tedious to setup.
I agree, but it would be a good deal of work to switch to.
I'd definitely like to do this when/if we move away from bugzilla.
kevin
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the rpm package and point folks to the git repo.
I think this will get people up to date versions of things,
and avoid pointlessly updating a package.
Anyone have any arguments to save the rpm version?
Or shall I just retire it/update docs?
kevin
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Miroslav Suchý wrote:
> abattis-cantarell-fonts warning: not valid as calaway nor as SPDX, please
> check
The name Callaway has 2 'l's in it.
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On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 08:10:56AM +, Mattia Verga via devel wrote:
> Il 17/11/22 18:10, Adam Williamson ha scritto:
> > On Wed, 2022-11-16 at 17:37 +, Mattia Verga via devel wrote:
> >> Kevin, the PR for Bodhi is nearly finished, it will add support for
> >>
On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 11:37:43AM -0600, Richard Shaw wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 11:32 AM Kevin Fenzi wrote:
>
> > Everything should be back up now...
> >
> > I'm watching it for a bit before I declare things are back fully to
> > normal though. ;)
>
On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 02:09:47PM +0100, Kevin Kofler via devel wrote:
>
> Kevin Fenzi is currently a member of FESCo (see
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fesco/) and has been in that role for
> years. So pushing the blame off to "someone else" is not going to
On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 05:37:07PM +, Mattia Verga via devel wrote:
>
> Kevin, the PR for Bodhi is nearly finished, it will add support for
> using the 'frozen' release state to avoid pausing the push cron job and
> avoid direct pending to stable push of updates when the relea
/
Thanks.
kevin
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Dan Čermák wrote:
> I find it a bit odd that the business is asking volunteers to step up to
> help the business out...
Is that not the whole concept of Fedora?
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Stephen Smoogen wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 at 16:04, Kevin Kofler via devel <
> devel@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:
>
>> Kevin Fenzi wrote:
>> > I think we are going to just have to agree to disagree here.
>> >
>> > I think we have had
Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> I think we are going to just have to agree to disagree here.
>
> I think we have had this discussion a number of times now and aren't
> going to convince the other.
So Bodhi will continue to become more and more unmaintainable due to piling
up more and more
tself & its standard library
> - The debug build (/usr/bin/python3-debug)
> - Default for libraries in Fedora (RPM macros)
> - Befault for libraries built by users (sysconfig settings)
IMHO, the debug build is the only one where it might possibly mak
On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 11:54:32PM +0100, Kevin Kofler via devel wrote:
...snip...
I think we are going to just have to agree to disagree here.
I think we have had this discussion a number of times now and aren't
going to convince the other.
kevin
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on/Silverblue) so we're
> planning on introducing a more KDE native application as a replacement
> once it is ready, but that may not not happen as part of this change.
How about Calamares in a dont-chroot: true configuration?
Kevin Kofler
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