See original comment, followed by a response.
original
Regarding cranking out design, I would NEVER underestimate what you learn
when you have exposure to lots of work with tight deadlines. I'd say this
is
the best experience an IxD practitioner could have, if it's coupled with
varied
On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 7:08 PM, Connor, Adam [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
What do you guys think? Those of you with Masters (or higher degrees),
how has having one helped you. Those that don't, do you feel not having
one has held you back or hurt you in any way? Do you plan on pursuing a
Regarding *Mark Ehrhardt* on:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:21:34, Mark Ehrhardt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Why on earth would you consider hiring a PhD if you are going to
evaluate them using the same criteria you would an undergrad? PhDs
are researchers... they further the field of design. You
Rich, I think you have a very good point - from what *I* see, the
tradesman/maverick/rock star is how I see immediate advancement
in this field.
Adam, if you went back to school at this point in your career I
don't see that it would be that useful for you to advance your
career, unless you were
Jumping back to what Will said:
curriculum development is going to happen with or without us (the
community of IxDA) - so we can either lead, follow, or shut the F* up.
I think it would be great if IxDA came up with a proposed curriculum
that could be used by schools to build new offerings in
I don't want to complicate things more than they already are.
I'm an Interaction Designer (have been for only about a year and a
half now) and what brought me here was a combination of two of my
passions: technology and psych.
I'm currently working towards a PhD in Psychology, and I see the
Perhaps it is this very preference for cranking out designs that has
limited the advancement of the field of design? There are, no doubt, firms
with this preference, and firms who aspire advance the field. The design
field no doubt requires both.
And it's Prima donna. ;)
Sean
On Fri, Jun 20,
But it doesn't match the rigor of true in-depth intellectual study and
analysis and, just being challenged by a professor or students *in your face*
to heighten/deepen your understanding of the history, theory, issues, etc.
Nothing matches the rigor of an actual workplace and the deadline to
On Jun 20, 2008, at 6:35 PM, Kontra wrote:
But it doesn't match the rigor of true in-depth intellectual study
and analysis and, just being challenged by a professor or students
*in your face* to heighten/deepen your understanding of the
history, theory, issues, etc.
Nothing matches the
True, Kontra, but the challenge comes from a different angle, generally
erring on the side of less change, more conservatism. This is why I keep
raising the specter of what happened with the industry-norming of journalism
degrees, which are not doing the field any favors.
Industry-norming is not
So what should the take away be here Kontra? Are you suggesting that young
designers have a higher probability of success and greatness if they avoid a
structured learning path? Is this really the guidance that your would lend
say... your children?
I think the point - Ok, and I'll only speak
On Jun 20, 2008, at 9:09 PM, Christine Boese wrote:
The best thing grad school did for me was FORCE me to get into
theoretical areas that I had natural resistances to, and FORCE me to
justify and defend the theories that I wanted to hang on to like
sacred cows.
The thing that's been
On Jun 21, 2008, at 5:33 AM, Todd Zaki Warfel wrote:
School teaches you primarily theory, while field work teaches you
primarily practical experience. The best designers will be the ones
that are equipped with both.
Good schools teach both. I not only learned theory in grad school, but
I found the following interesting as it pertains to curriculum development
for an IxD program:
Jon Kolko's article Mixing Disciplines in Anticipating of Convergence: A
Curriculum for Teaching Interaction Design to Industrial Designers
*http://tinyurl.com/5zc3sa
And from his site on courses he
For some reason - this discussion brought me back to thinking about
Strategic Design and Designing thinking - in this way: just like design
happens whether a designer is in the room or not (thanks Todd); curriculum
development is going to happen with or without us (the community of IxDA) -
so we
The most interesting thing I learned in grad school is that day-to-day
practice is saturated with theory, which guides the actions. It is often
subconscious or unenunciated theory, but all action is guided by SOME sort
of internalized theory, even if it is just a guy over a beer saying I've
got a
Here's Don Norman's take on the topic:
http://www.jnd.org/dn.mss/to_school_or_not_to.html
Mike
On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 2:54 PM, Jonathan Abbett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I have a CS degree, a family, and roughly the same amount of experience,
mostly in UI implementation (with ad hoc design)
Adam,
I've seen similar discussions in the software engineering field, where I
come from. And you see similar answers. Those who have invested in
schooling tend to want to defend it as important, which makes perfect
sense--nobody wants to think they wasted their time and money, and higher
And PhD's have routinely been bottom of the wrung candidates,
(seriously) . We consider a PhD to be a negative, with candidates
having consistent issues such as - premadonna, no business sense, no
real world sense, poor design skills, poor coding skills, (in a make
it happen type of world) .
Why
, 20 Jun 2008 10:19 pm
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Importance of Masters Degree for IxD Professionals
Jun 20, 2008, at 7:54 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:?
?
I have always found it interesting that in the UX world we tend to?
focus on the masters level with very little done
Anti-intellectualism had a good run through the 8 years of the Bush
administration, but I think it may have finally played itself out. It is
just too worthwhile to have the director of FEMA actually have some
EXPERTISE in administering emergency services, rather than the cronyism that
seemed to
Hi,
A few quick and loose thoughts on what is probably the most important topic
facing our industry - the education of new talent to actually do the huge
amounts of work that are coming across our respective desks:
- Two things that aren't generally taught in either undergraduate or
graduate
What a GREAT conversation.
Angel, I'm sorry if for some reason you are feeling dissed in any
way. I think I've said it before. I have 15 years of experience with
no degree. Sit me in a room with anyone with a degree as a designer I
can hold my own pretty well, I think. However, I also know when
On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 3:25 PM, dave malouf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am feeling from some who are arguing against degree need, that they
are also arguing against degrees for anyone.
Not I. Higher degrees of education have their purpose, to be sure.
I would argue that purely
organic
I like that, the journey-person model. My dad became an electrician 40+
years ago, first as IBEW apprentice, then journeyman, then foreman. So long
as we get the benefits that come with it (the union or guild, for instance).
Can we join the Freemasons too? I want to have a lodge and wear funny
On Jun 20, 2008, at 2:47 PM, Andrew Boyd wrote:
Now... if you want to be immersed in a challenging environment where
your every assumption has to be justified to your clients, your
boss, other business areas that have different agendas, your boss's
boss, and their boss's boss (the head of
The passion in this thread is outstanding, I had no idea it would get
this long when I posed the question.
Joining back in now, I have to say that I too appreciate the
journeyman model, but then its very similar to how I arrived at where
I am today so why wouldn't I :)
For me the part that
On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 6:06 PM, Christine Boese [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I like that, the journey-person model. My dad became an electrician 40+
years ago, first as IBEW apprentice, then journeyman, then foreman. So long
as we get the benefits that come with it (the union or guild, for
as my younger sister would say:
unions? ei!
On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 5:10 PM, J. Ambrose Little [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 6:06 PM, Christine Boese
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I like that, the journey-person model. My dad became an electrician 40+
years ago, first
you are a true saint.
what a convenient opportunity to let everyone know about your chivalry.
On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 5:10 PM, Adam Connor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
The passion in this thread is outstanding, I had no idea it would get
this long when I posed the question.
Joining back in now,
you are a true saint.
what a convenient opportunity to let everyone know about your
chivalry.
Angel - not sure at all what that was supposed to mean, but I'm
assuming it was a shot at me. Can't quite figure out what I did to
deserve such a shot, but I'm disappointed you found it necessary.
. .
Hi Ambrose,
while I think that the mentor model is necessary, it is not all that
is needed here.
Interaction design is NOT just craft. There is real research thought
leadership going on in this area. IxD is as much an intellectual
endeavor as it is one of craft and it is the marrying of the two
Nah, I'm just dizzy. I think it's the hearing loss that comes with dyslexia.
Chris
On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 8:10 PM, J. Ambrose Little [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 6:06 PM, Christine Boese
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I like that, the journey-person model. My dad became an
I'm baffled at the existence of a monolithic entity known as IxD.
Scott
--
(The key to joy is disobedience
There is no guilt and there is no shame) - COIL
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to this list
On Jun 19, 2008, at 9:08 AM, Connor, Adam wrote:
The recent thread on the SVA program and subsequent writing about
online
programs has got me wondering - how important is a Masters Degree in a
design related discipline to the success of one's career?
Speaking as a Master's degree holder, i'm
On 6/20/08, Uday Gajendar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Jun 19, 2008, at 9:08 AM, Connor, Adam wrote:
The recent thread on the SVA program and subsequent writing about online
programs has got me wondering - how important is a Masters Degree in a
design related discipline to the success of
Side note: I apologize for the double posting at the beginning of the
thread. There was a lag after I sent in the original post and I was
worried it never made it so I sent another.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
Fred, are you kidding? How can you compare a week, a week there
conference experiences to the experience of school? What are you
doing is saying that a vacation is the same as living there and
learning the language? It ain't!
Ok, I'm NOT a degree holder and I miss it every day of my career. I
On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 04:37:59, dave malouf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Fred, are you kidding? How can you compare a week, a week there
conference experiences to the experience of school? What are you
doing is saying that a vacation is the same as living there and
learning the language? It ain't!
I'm presently interviewing candidates for a senior UX/UI job(s), and a
related graduate degree is good, but if the candidate doesn't have
experience, they're still considered a newbie.
I'd rate education and experience in this order, (this is a generalization
from actual interviews with
On Jun 20, 2008, at 3:53 AM, Fred Beecher wrote:
You can get this by going to conferences as well. Especially with
Crowdvine
coming into high usage. Search for interesting/famous people to talk
to,
then go find them at the conference. Also, just participating in
online
communities like
Speaking as a Master's degree holder, i'm biased but I'd say the advantages
are primarily:
Well said! Those might be the 4 best reasons I've ever read to go to
college. It's nice to see someone who cares about the work more than the
piece of paper.
-r-
As someone who really got off on the deep dive, I gotta second what Uday
says below. The strongest factors for me were (in order):
#3, the Deep Dive.
#1 #2: Networking, and name schools. I come from humanities, and never had
the kind of engineering connections I craved, because in my undergrad
Fred, I'm in almost the exact same situation, I've got 7 years of
experience under my belt, and the thought of uprooting my family and
leaving my job, just doesn't seem practical.
Combine that though with the fact that my Bachelors is actually in
CompSci and not design and you'll start to see why
I have a CS degree, a family, and roughly the same amount of experience,
mostly in UI implementation (with ad hoc design) rather than hardcore IxD.
I do a lot of reading, and I'm subjecting my coworkers to a design process
as I flesh it out and test it. I took a look at the Cooper IxD Practicum,
On Jun 20, 2008, at 10:07 AM, Christine Boese wrote:
#1 #2: Networking, and name schools. I come from humanities, and
never had the kind of engineering connections I craved, because in
my undergrad world, engineers and CS folks just didn't talk with
humanities people. You gotta get to the
On Jun 20, 2008, at 9:39 AM, Fred Beecher wrote:
Yes, I realize the horror of what I'm doing, analyzing education
based on
the numbers. But really, some degree of this is necessary *once
you've got
an established career.*
That's fine and understandable. I'd just go back to what I said: in
On Jun 20, 2008, at 4:37 AM, dave malouf wrote:
The theory stuff I think is easy to pick up on one's one.
Hmm, I dunno about that :-). Sure anyone can read a book or several
books and mailing lists and articles that alot of us write or publish
even on this list.
But it doesn't match the
Sharing the same alma mater as both Jack and Uday may response may be
bias. Unlike Jack and Uday I worked for several years as an UI
Designer and Interaction design before I attended CMU.
For many of us, our entrance into the filed has been serendipitous
%u2013 by either graphic design,
Uday Gajendar wrote:
Speaking as a Master's degree holder, i'm biased but I'd say the
advantages are primarily:
That pretty much lines up with my desire to go back to grad school,
especially #3. I've got a ton of industry experience in related
disciplines, but taking a year or two off of
spectator
On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 5:11 PM, j. eric townsend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Uday Gajendar wrote:
Speaking as a Master's degree holder, i'm biased but I'd say the
advantages are primarily:
That pretty much lines up with my desire to go back to grad school,
especially #3. I've
At risk of sounding like Uday's hallalujah chorus (yo Uday!), let me press
on.
The best thing grad school did for me was FORCE me to get into theoretical
areas that I had natural resistances to, and FORCE me to justify and defend
the theories that I wanted to hang on to like sacred cows.
So
I'm sorry, but what's your point?
Angel Marquez wrote:
spectator
On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 5:11 PM, j. eric townsend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Uday Gajendar wrote:
Speaking as a Master's degree holder, i'm biased but I'd say the
advantages are
Is this all (both threads) really just a question of this point in
history?
Would I hire an Industrial Designer who doesn't have a degree in ID?
Isn't the expectation if hiring a junior graphic designer that they
have a degree in visual design?
I have always found it interesting that in the UX
Good question Dave. Let me give it a historical twist. Journalism is a
field looking back on 50 years or so of accredited bachelor's degree
programs.
These days most of the journalists working in the field have bachelor's
degrees in journalism, from accredited programs, whether practice-oriented
Jun 20, 2008, at 7:54 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have always found it interesting that in the UX world we tend to
focus on the masters level with very little done at the Bachelor's
level. My question to SVA CMU KU is why are there no bachelor of
IxD programs next to you MA programs?
What education teaches you though which I believe no one spoke about is
how to think how to teach. education lastly gives you wings to inderstand
the impractical. Learning failure as part if
a process expressions just for you.
hrm...I'm going to have to strongly disagree with the above
On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 10:54 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I do think that one can achieve greatness in practice without going
to school. What education teaches you though which I believe no one
spoke about is how to think how to teach. education lastly gives
you wings to inderstand the
The recent thread on the SVA program and subsequent writing about online
programs has got me wondering - how important is a Masters Degree in a
design related discipline to the success of one's career?
As someone who is already working in the IxD field and at the same time
very geographically
The recent thread on the SVA program and subsequent writing about online
programs has got me wondering - how important is a Masters Degree in a
design related discipline to the success of one's career?
As someone who is already working in the IxD field and at the same time
very geographically
Hi Adam,
I'm in a very similar situation as you concerning geographically
limits in terms of educational institutions. Taking a master degree
in art and technology offered me the opportunity to take some time to
create unique solutions. Product differentiation is paramount in the
interaction
Adam,
In my own case, yes, the degree has been extremely valuable. However,
I went to grad school directly after undergrad. It was a natural
continuation of my design training. Others find it useful because they
are switching to design from some other background. For a designer
with many
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