Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-23 Thread erland
slimkid;314225 Wrote: Hi Erland, sorry to abuse your time and patience, but could you just confirm what I think I understand (or assume) from all this: I just did some tests based on MP3 files with TPE2 tags and no custom tags. slimkid;314225 Wrote: If there is a unique ALBUMARTIST

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-23 Thread Phil Meyer
What's wrong with putting Various Artists in the Album Artist tag if you are saying that you want this as the Album Artists name. Nothing really wrong with doing that. It's just a name after all. However, I don't consider Various Artists to be an artist name; it's another miss-use of the tag.

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-23 Thread BBear
Folks - could someone please explain to me why we need this TPE logic at all. Over the last 2 years I have been following the guidelines for ripping my music collection using EAC into flac files. These are stored in the recommended ARTIST\ALBUM or VARIOS ARTIST\GENRE\ALBUM structure. Until SC7.01

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-23 Thread MrSinatra
Philip Meyer;314375 Wrote: What's wrong with putting Various Artists in the Album Artist tag if you are saying that you want this as the Album Artists name. Nothing really wrong with doing that. It's just a name after all. However, I don't consider Various Artists to be an artist name;

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-23 Thread NigelC
I used to have my library and Slimserver set up just how I like it - Compilations were correctly listed under Various Artists and contributing artists did not appear in the main list of Artists. This seems to have changed, now that I've moved to SC 7 The problem occurs when an album with a main

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-23 Thread MrSinatra
BBear;314411 Wrote: Folks - could someone please explain to me why we need this TPE logic at all. not sure what you mean by that. one thing is treat TPE2 as ALBUMARTIST which is fairly straight forward. the other thing is a function SC has of VA detection logic. i contend we don't need the

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-23 Thread Phil Meyer
why does SC conflate an albums property, with how that album is named (named via album artist?) what i would do, is if something seems like a comp to SC, and there is no album artist or TPE2 tag for it to use, it should then use the ALBUM name, and set the COMP field in the positive. i know you

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-23 Thread Phil Meyer
I have just re-ripped Supernatural using the latest dBPoweramp (V13 Reference) and this automatically sets Compilation=0 which is helpful. It also sets Album Artist = Santana I think you'll find that dbPowerAmp stores Album Artist in a band tag. I have dbPowerAmp (don't use the ripper, only use

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-22 Thread erland
I really don't understand the reason to start this discussion again, but I guess I've probably missed something. No, I'm not trying to silence anyone, I just don't understand why you guys keeps spending energy on something that's already solved instead of doing something useful with your time.

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-22 Thread Phil Meyer
I really don't understand the reason to start this discussion again, but I guess I've probably missed something. No, I'm not trying to silence anyone, I just don't understand why you guys keeps spending energy on something that's already solved instead of doing something useful with your time. I

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-22 Thread Phil Meyer
in other words, if it finds a string like Various Artist in TPE2 or an album artist tag, to then go ahead and classify it as a comp? doesn't that make sense? Absolutely not. A compilation album is when there are multiple artists on an album. If you have guest performers on an album and thus

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-22 Thread MrSinatra
erland;314024 Wrote: I really don't understand the reason to start this discussion again, but I guess I've probably missed something. No, I'm not trying to silence anyone, I just don't understand why you guys keeps spending energy on something that's already solved instead of doing something

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-22 Thread Phil Meyer
in such a case, if there is a mismatch, it WILL call that a VA album. i know this b/c that was the case with one of the 2 albums that was ID'd i mentioned in my previous post. the code andy quotes shows this. one mismatch on one track (out of two or more) is enough to get the classification. It

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-22 Thread Phil Meyer
we may have discovered a bug with it that also relates to this 8324 issue, in that i can't find my 'TPE2=Various Artists' albums under the 'Home-Artists' list. I find this a strange thing to do. An album artist of Various Artists seems contradictory. Any artist name being Various Artists

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-22 Thread MrSinatra
Philip Meyer;314027 Wrote: I really don't understand the reason to start this discussion again, but I guess I've probably missed something. No, I'm not trying to silence anyone, I just don't understand why you guys keeps spending energy on something that's already solved instead of doing

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-22 Thread MrSinatra
Philip Meyer;314030 Wrote: in other words, if it finds a string like Various Artist in TPE2 or an album artist tag, to then go ahead and classify it as a comp? doesn't that make sense? Absolutely not. A compilation album is when there are multiple artists on an album. If you have guest

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-22 Thread MrSinatra
Philip Meyer;314035 Wrote: we may have discovered a bug with it that also relates to this 8324 issue, in that i can't find my 'TPE2=Various Artists' albums under the 'Home-Artists' list. I find this a strange thing to do. An album artist of Various Artists seems contradictory. why is

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-22 Thread erland
MrSinatra;314029 Wrote: i don't use comp tags at all. i know very little about them. i don't really understand the difference between TCMP and COMPILATION. maybe you can explain it to me? i also don't use itunes, and while my wife has a ac, i really don't do much with it. all i know

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-22 Thread Phil Meyer
i guess i'm lost here. whats the beef? is it with non-standard tags, or just differences between differing comp tags? is it possible for my id3v2.3 tags to start with more than 4 characters? ie. TPE1, TPE2, TCMP? id3v2.3 tags are held in frames. A frame is named with four characters, like

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-22 Thread Phil Meyer
would you prefer i had TPE2 say Compilation? why would you be against it anyway? By setting anything in an album artist tag, you are stating that an album isn't a compilation album, so to call the album artist Compilation or Various Artists seems odd. Entering Not a compilation as the album

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-22 Thread Nonreality
Philip Meyer;314180 Wrote: would you prefer i had TPE2 say Compilation? why would you be against it anyway? By setting anything in an album artist tag, you are stating that an album isn't a compilation album, so to call the album artist Compilation or Various Artists seems odd. Entering

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-22 Thread slimkid
erland;314024 Wrote: 1. Bug '#8001' (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8001) makes MP3 files work as FLAC files, with the new option you can instruct SqueezeCenter to treat TPE2 as ALBUMARTIST. The result is that MP3 albums with a TPE2 tag will not be treated as compilations

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-21 Thread Phil Meyer
I can accept that there is no harm in having an option to turn off auto compilation detection. i really think the current VA logic is silly (from a design POV), altho i admit it works good for some people (in their estimations). It's not silly. It works well, and will work correctly for the

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-21 Thread MrSinatra
Philip Meyer;313874 Wrote: I can accept that there is no harm in having an option to turn off auto compilation detection. then thats the main thing. regardless of anything else, we agree on that, and so we agree it should not be a forced necessity on users, like me, who would rather not have

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-21 Thread htrd
I scanned this thread and decided it was really long enough without me adding to it. But, here I am anyway MrSinatra;313887 Wrote: its the rules that are the problem. the reason it is silly, is b/c it assumes that any album with a single TPE1 mismatch is a VA / comp album. that is

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-21 Thread MrSinatra
htrd;313894 Wrote: I scanned this thread and decided it was really long enough without me adding to it. But, here I am anyway You've made that statement several times in this thread. I assume the logic behind your statement is obvious to you, but it leaves me quite puzzled. Could you

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-21 Thread andyg
Here's what the 'merge various artists' step of the scanner is doing: Code: Find all albums not currently marked as a compilation. For each of those albums: Get all tracks on the album with role = ARTIST (note: tracks with ALBUMARTIST don't have an ARTIST role,

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-21 Thread Phil Meyer
its the rules that are the problem. the reason it is silly, is b/c it assumes that any album with a single TPE1 mismatch is a VA / comp album. that is ludicrous. No, it's not ludicrous. The vast majority of albums that have the same artist on every song are not various artist/compilation

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-21 Thread MrSinatra
Philip Meyer;313911 Wrote: that kind of auto-detection would be head and shoulders above what we have now. So instead of looking for COMPILATION=1, it would look for ARTIST=Various Artists? You really think that's better? TPE2, not TPE1. and Andy says SC already looks for that

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-21 Thread MrSinatra
Philip Meyer;313911 Wrote: its the rules that are the problem. the reason it is silly, is b/c it assumes that any album with a single TPE1 mismatch is a VA / comp album. that is ludicrous. No, it's not ludicrous. The vast majority of albums that have the same artist on every song are not

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-21 Thread MrSinatra
Andy, thx for this info, but can you please clarify: andyg;313908 Wrote: Here's what the 'merge various artists' step of the scanner is doing: Code: Find all albums not currently marked as a compilation. For each of those albums: Get all tracks on the

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-21 Thread Phil Meyer
well, i dispute it. as i've said many times, *half* of what it identified it got wrong. its simply a bad design assumption. Half of what it identified for *you* may have been wrong. But even then, what do you mean by half? Half of your music collection, or of all compilation albums, or of

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-21 Thread Phil Meyer
Forgot to mention that www.id3.org has some information on non-compliant tags set by apps: http://www.id3.org/Compliance_Issues Plenty of iTunes, WinAmp and WMP non-compliancy issues listed which you may find useful. Phil ___ discuss mailing list

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-21 Thread MrSinatra
Philip Meyer;313990 Wrote: well, i dispute it. as i've said many times, *half* of what it identified it got wrong. its simply a bad design assumption. Half of what it identified for *you* may have been wrong. But even then, what do you mean by half? Half of your music collection, or of

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-20 Thread MrSinatra
hi all... reviving another old thread b/c the bug its about is due to be discussed at the next bug meeting. http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8324 first, lets get back on track. the question posed by this thread is: Is the VA detection logic necessary? i don't see how anyone could

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-09 Thread sander
Philip Meyer;309981 Wrote: I could understand the effect you are seeing if you are trying to browse albums ordered by year, because what year would an album be sorted under? When I browse to an album that has different years in the tracks, it shows up as multiple albums regardless of whether

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-09 Thread Phil Meyer
If this is a problem in my tagging or there is someway to get around this, like it sounds you have, I'd like to follow up in another thread. If you could help. I haven't got anything special in my tags, just standard YEAR tags for each song. Point me at another thread or send me a PM, if you

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-08 Thread sander
erland;309543 Wrote: I completely agree with you regarding this, I'm just not sure that the VA logic is an important part for average users. I do understand that it is an important part in libraries that looks like your, but I suspect your library has a lot more artists tagged on your albums

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-08 Thread Phil Meyer
In general I would say SqueezeCenter is WAY too conservative on what an album is. The various artists behavior is compounded by variances in date being treated as separate albums. Do you mean YEAR tag? Are you sure? I haven't seen any strange effects with YEAR or DATE tags.

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-08 Thread sander
Philip Meyer;309931 Wrote: Do you mean YEAR tag? Are you sure? I haven't seen any strange effects with YEAR or DATE tags. Yes, I'm still running 6.5.2, I don't think things have changed since, but if you have an album with different year dates on the tracks it will appear as multiple albums

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-08 Thread Phil Meyer
but if you have an album with different year dates on the tracks it will appear as multiple albums one for each year. That definitely doesn't happen for me; I've never seen that effect before (currently on 7.2). I'm sure I've entered different years for songs on some greatest hits albums. Of

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-06 Thread MrSinatra
erland;309251 Wrote: You don't have to check folder names, the only things that might need testing is how it reacts if album artist is set to Various Artists or if a track has a single artist tag set to Various Artists. my tags don't have an album artist tag at all. thats a user defined tag

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-06 Thread aubuti
MrSinatra;309428 Wrote: i guess i have to wait, b/c i just don't have the time to get into this aspect of it. i've never been good at programming. also, does it cost money? i do have a mac, but its the wifes and for now i'd rather keep SC off of it, (and i'm not mac savvy yet anyway).

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-06 Thread erland
MrSinatra;309428 Wrote: i guess i have to wait, b/c i just don't have the time to get into this aspect of it. i've never been good at programming. also, does it cost money? i do have a mac, but its the wifes and for now i'd rather keep SC off of it, (and i'm not mac savvy yet anyway).

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-05 Thread MrSinatra
erland, thats awesome! so my question to you is what happens on the slim developer side, or what is needed, to get this option incorporated into the nightly betas? i really do believe some users will find this option very useful, especially infrant users but not limited only to them. here's

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-05 Thread erland
MrSinatra;309158 Wrote: so my question to you is what happens on the slim developer side, or what is needed, to get this option incorporated into the nightly betas? Logitech regularly looks through bug/enhancement reports with provided patches and checks if the patch is good enough. If

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-05 Thread MrSinatra
erland;309207 Wrote: Logitech regularly looks through bug/enhancement reports with provided patches and checks if the patch is good enough. If there is an enhancement, they also decide if they like to add it to SqueezeCenter and thus also manage the potential support issues later related to

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-05 Thread erland
MrSinatra;309211 Wrote: right... it'll take some experimenting to see if certain strings in tags or folder names cause one to be considered a comp by SC. my guess is that SC won't look at strings or folder names with the VA logic turned off, but its just a guess. You don't have to

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-04 Thread MrSinatra
guys... first, i've been away. i got married. but now i would like to revisit these issues. so i am sorry i started these threads / topics and disappeared, but the wife, well, she wouldn't like me posting during our time. ;) in any case... i think we have gotten somewhat off track here.

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-04 Thread JJZolx
MrSinatra;308712 Wrote: first, i've been away. i got married. but now i would like to revisit these issues. This thread is dead. Dead. Dead, I tell you. :-) It's very clear by recent activity in bugzilla that there are very large changes planned for the database structure and how it will

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-04 Thread egd
MrSinatra;308712 Wrote: first, i've been away. i got married.As I say to all who succumb to this fate, myself included...Commiserations, you can't be happy all your life. ;) -- egd Internet forums: conclusive proof depth of gene pool is indeed variable, monkeys can be taught to cut code,

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-04 Thread MrSinatra
Jim i appreciate the reply, but i don't see why this should have to wait for 7.3! ...or a whole new database schema. my hope is that erland or phil or kdf or greg (or someone) will consider the worthiness of my bug report, and hopefully find it worthy, and implement the option. but just waiting

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-04 Thread Michael Herger
Jim i appreciate the reply, but i don't see why this should have to wait for 7.3! ...or a whole new database schema. Because we rather concentrate on doing 7.3 right than wasting time fixing and breaking again the current logic. -- Michael ___

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-04 Thread Phil Leigh
MrSinatra;308732 Wrote: Jim i appreciate the reply, but i don't see why this should have to wait for 7.3! ...or a whole new database schema. my hope is that erland or phil or kdf or greg (or someone) will consider the worthiness of my bug report, and hopefully find it worthy, and

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-04 Thread MrSinatra
mherger;308740 Wrote: Jim i appreciate the reply, but i don't see why this should have to wait for 7.3! ...or a whole new database schema. Because we rather concentrate on doing 7.3 right than wasting time fixing and breaking again the current logic. Michael i am asking this b/c i

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-04 Thread kdf
Short answer is that it would need to be supported, and that's a lot easier to say (or request) than do. It's rather obvious with 7.0 - 7.3 all in the targets, that there is a lot on the go. However, as unsupported goes, SC is, as always open source. Download the tar.gz version, install

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-06-04 Thread erland
kdf;308767 Wrote: However, as unsupported goes, SC is, as always open source. Download the tar.gz version, install activePerl and remove this line from Slim\Music\Import.pm Slim::Schema-mergeVariousArtistsAlbums; It's around line 350 or so (plus remove the two lines before it).

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-10 Thread kdf
On 9-May-08, at 10:09 PM, JJZolx wrote: Does this make any bloody sense to anyone? I'm thinking that anyone who had even ONE braincell willing to think about this issue and actually make something happen.. lost that braincell in the three threads going on incessantly about the same thing

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-10 Thread JJZolx
kdf;300675 Wrote: On 9-May-08, at 10:09 PM, JJZolx wrote: Does this make any bloody sense to anyone? I'm thinking that anyone who had even ONE braincell willing to think about this issue and actually make something happen.. lost that braincell in the three threads going on

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-10 Thread kdf
On 9-May-08, at 11:37 PM, JJZolx wrote: kdf;300675 Wrote: On 9-May-08, at 10:09 PM, JJZolx wrote: Does this make any bloody sense to anyone? I'm thinking that anyone who had even ONE braincell willing to think about this issue and actually make something happen.. lost that braincell in

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-10 Thread JJZolx
kdf;300681 Wrote: No one taking part is actually capable of DOING anything. gotta make you wonder. This isn't a developer list. That no developers take part in this type of a discussion is fairly standard. I don't think that anybody expects them to. I just learned something because of

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-10 Thread kdf
forums.slimdevices.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.919.2) On 10-May-08, at 12:07 AM, JJZolx wrote: kdf;300681 Wrote: No one taking part is actually capable of DOING anything. gotta make you wonder. This isn't a developer list. right...list police, good

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-10 Thread Phil Meyer
No one taking part is actually capable of DOING anything. gotta make you wonder. I am capable of doing patches, but there's little incentive - things are generally working for me (apart from a few minor issues that I've lived with for a long time), so I'd be trying to change something in a

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-10 Thread erland
kdf;300681 Wrote: No one taking part is actually capable of DOING anything. gotta make you wonder. I'm not sure I agree if you really meant no one, but if you change it to most of the the people I can agree... But I do agree that this discussion back and forth where the same arguments

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-10 Thread slimkid
kdf;300675 Wrote: if anyone comes out of this with a point, please do us all a favour and make it...then kill anyone who keeps muttering on about the same points. -k For the sake of efficiency, I'll skip over your insulting rant and get to two points I believe everybody here agrees:

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-10 Thread Phil Meyer
- Artist View (Home-Artists): when ALBUMARTIST tag is present in file, then regardless of whether the album is compilation or not, it should not go into Various Artist area. It should be listed as ALBUM by ALBUMARTIST and be listed under ALBUMARTISTS in artist list (Home-Artists-ALBUMARTIST).

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-10 Thread Greg Klanderman
JJZolx [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well, I've figured out the difference Jim, glad you figured out the issue - you should open a very specific bug for this. Btw, I didn't find this post offensive at all especially in relation to some of the other posts by others in these threads. Also unlike

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-10 Thread kdf
slimkid;300768 Wrote: @kdf, I believe you are listening to these discussions through eMail and are under wrong impression that this is coming from the developers forum. Actually, this is coming form the General forum, and I find your assumptions about capabilities of the discussion

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-10 Thread Greg Klanderman
Phil Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, I'd agree with that, although I think it's a bit clearer to think of the rule as follows: When the scanner finds and album with an album artist tag, set Compilation=No. i.e. the fault is in the scanner that builds the library from scanning

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-10 Thread Phil Meyer
I don't think that's quite right; if I understood JJZolx having ALBUMARTIST set and COMPILATION=0 is when things break. I have *no* COMPILATION tags set, and it works for me. I was trying to say that if there is an album artist, then compilation tags should be ignored. i.e if there is an album

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-09 Thread Phil Meyer
not only that multiple ALBUMARTIST work on album. One can actually mix and match various ALBUMARTISTS across the tracks of an album: very good feature that definitely shouldn't be discontinued. I doubt that was an intended feature. Sounds really wrong. ALBUMARTIST is for grouping all songs on

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-09 Thread Greg Klanderman
Phil Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My only concern was that SqueezeCenter also stores a contributor (artist foreign key) within the album record. This can only be one artist, so what happens if I have two album artists? As I said above, I was expecting multiple ALBUMARTIST tags not to

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-09 Thread slimkid
just FYI, attached is slimserver database model. I'd like to turn your attention to contributor_album table. @greg, no serious discussion can be based on the premisse I don't use it and I don't see why anybody else would. If you want to participate in the real world excercise, I can give you

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-09 Thread JJZolx
The way I use ALBUMARTIST and the way I believe it was intended is as a means of designating the artist(s) to which the album should be attributed. As an _override_ mechanism to the normal/original behavior of attributing the album to all of the artists that appear on the album. I don't think

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-09 Thread JJZolx
slimkid;300504 Wrote: BTW, there's an issue with the VA that nobody is mentioning - even if there is unique ALBUMARTISTS and different ARTISTs for tracks, album will be considered a compilation and placed under Various Artists in artists view. In album view, it will be sorted among other 'V'

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-09 Thread slimkid
JJZolx;300511 Wrote: You're right. IMO, designating an ALBUMARTIST should immediately override the normal VA determination and make the album a non-compilation. You can do this yourself with an explicity COMPILATION=0 tag in some file types, but it shouldn't be necessary. Setting

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-09 Thread slimkid
JJZolx;300522 Wrote: That, IMO, is a bug. I think those artists should be suppressed whether or not the album is a compilation. I think the problem is more historical than anything else - at one time any album that had more than one artist was considered a compilation no matter what. It

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-09 Thread JJZolx
slimkid;300527 Wrote: Solution I found is to tag only those tracks with COMPILATION=0. Again, this is an album property, not a property of the track. If, for some reason it affects how SqueezeCenter treats the artists on the track then you're really just exploiting a side effect that could go

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-09 Thread Greg Klanderman
slimkid [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: @greg, no serious discussion can be based on the premisse I don't use it and I don't see why anybody else would. SlimKid, you have misinterpreted (or misrepresented) what I wrote. I counter that no serious discussion can be had with someone such as yourself

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-09 Thread Greg Klanderman
JJZolx [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5108 The example I always use is the Sinatra album called 'Duets', where Sinatra records each track with a different artist. This is obviously a non-compilation. It's a Sinatra album and you want it grouped with

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-09 Thread slimkid
JJZolx;300530 Wrote: Again, this is an album property, not a property of the track. If, for some reason it affects how SqueezeCenter treats the artists on the track then you're really just exploiting a side effect that could go away overnight. Oh, I'm well avare of that. It just works,

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-09 Thread Phil Meyer
I still can't imagine why anyone would want combinations of artists to appear under Browse Artists but that of course is your choice. :-) I don't do that for all artists, in fact not frequently at all. I do it when I want to put the full names of artists in the ARTIST tags, but the album is

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-09 Thread Phil Meyer
I wonder why I don't see this problem.. I do this sort of thing all the time. I have the different ARTIST tags on each track, then a single ALBUMARTIST across all tracks, and no COMPILATION tags anywhere in my entire library. And I do not see those auxiliary track artists in the Browse Artists

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-09 Thread JJZolx
gregklanderman;300537 Wrote: I wonder why I don't see this problem.. I do this sort of thing all the time. I have the different ARTIST tags on each track, then a single ALBUMARTIST across all tracks, and no COMPILATION tags anywhere in my entire library. And I do not see those auxiliary

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-09 Thread Greg Klanderman
JJZolx [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Albums tagged like this would be marked compilations, wouldn't they? Do they get grouped under the VA artist when you browse albums sorted by artist, or do they get grouped with the ALBUMARTIST? These albums get grouped under the ALBUMARTIST. See Phil's

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-09 Thread JJZolx
gregklanderman;300632 Wrote: JJZolx JJZolx.395wrz1210368601 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com writes: Albums tagged like this would be marked compilations, wouldn't they? Do they get grouped under the VA artist when you browse albums sorted by artist, or do they get grouped

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-08 Thread Phil Meyer
But it shouldn't be necessary to set COMPILATION=0 in most cases. I think that's because there are guest performers and no album artist has been set. So setting an album artist (or allowing an option for TPE2 to be regarded as Album Artist), would fix that problem. It was required with

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-08 Thread Greg Klanderman
CatBus [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm not the one throwing around the phrase standard tags as if it meant something and refusing to use ID3 2.4 because it's only been around for a decade. It's hard to keep track given the extreme volume and tedium of this (and related) threads, but which tag

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-08 Thread Greg Klanderman
MrSinatra [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ok, but its the same thing. SORT tags will override the VA logic just like ALBUMARTIST will. (so VA logic is not necessary for you) incorrect. ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-08 Thread Greg Klanderman
Phil Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: SqueezeCenter library stores an artist id with each album record (ie. a single artist needs to be associated with the album), so I wonder what it has stored in this case? I thought it may make several albums, such that it had a single artist associated

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-08 Thread Phil Meyer
Please nobody break the ability to use multiple ALBUMARTIST tags! Interesting. I've never thought of adding multiple album artists. What ends up in artist column of the album table for such an album? I don't think I can see the need for multiple album artists, as I generally make a single

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-08 Thread slimkid
not only that multiple ALBUMARTIST work on album. One can actually mix and match various ALBUMARTISTS across the tracks of an album: track1 - ALBUMARTIST = a; b track2 - ALBUMARTIST = a; c track3 - ALBUMARTIST = b; c album is listed by a, b, c very good feature that definitely shouldn't be

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-08 Thread JJZolx
slimkid;300185 Wrote: not only that multiple ALBUMARTIST work on album. One can actually mix and match various ALBUMARTISTS across the tracks of an album: track1 - ALBUMARTIST = a; b track2 - ALBUMARTIST = a; c track3 - ALBUMARTIST = b; c album is listed by a, b, c very good feature

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-08 Thread slimkid
JJZolx;300194 Wrote: Huh Of course you can put any damned thing you want in the tags. But ALBUMARTIST is an _album_ tag. Album tags should be consistent across all tracks in an album. The example you give would be like tagging different tracks in the same album with different

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-08 Thread Greg Klanderman
slimkid [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Huh the fact that you THINK it makes no logical sense, says only about your limited experience. I also fail to see the relevance of the analogy to album reply gain tag. Good think is that above mentioned scenario works just fine and no further

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-08 Thread slimkid
gregklanderman;300223 Wrote: Gotta agree with JJZolx on this one - ALBUMARTIST is by definition a property of the album. It is nonsensical to have different values for different tracks. And, what definition would that be? Nonsensical in what way? gregklanderman;300223 Wrote: Why is

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-08 Thread Greg Klanderman
Phil Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Interesting. I've never thought of adding multiple album artists. What ends up in artist column of the album table for such an album? Hi Phil, You mean album.contributor? Haven't looked at it in a few months, but I believe it's set to the first

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-08 Thread Greg Klanderman
slimkid [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And, what definition would that be? Nonsensical in what way? ALBUMARTIST by definition pertains to the ALBUM - in fact, notice how those are the first 5 letters. TRACKARTIST (aka ARTIST) pertains to the TRACK. greg

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-07 Thread MrSinatra
i want to thank you again for your other post in the other thread. erland;299582 Wrote: The current cost of SqueezeCenter is zero as far as I know, so it can't get much cheaper, but I suppose you are talking about the whole system including the SqueezeBox hardware. actually, that works

Re: [slim] Various Artists Logic... is it necessary?

2008-05-07 Thread Philip Meyer
I really can't see what everyone's problems are with compilation tags. It's quite simple. SqueezeCenter applies good sensible logic for determining compilation albums, if the user hasn't set up their own compilation tags. This is better than all other apps, that don't auto-calculate, and

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