Re: [Elecraft] Headphones (Again!)

[Eric Norris]

I have used the Heil Pro 7 also.  While they displayed no RFI issues, they
fall far behind the Bose QC35s,  Radiosport, and even Bose QC25s in keeping
out KPA1500 fan noise.  They worked FB for me in the CQWW SSB test, where
the KPA1500 fans rarely turn on, and never get louder than FAN1 at my
station, running at 1300w out per LP100A mearurement

"FWIW, I have been using Heil Pro 7 headphones successfully for years. I
use cw 95% of the time, including during quite a few enjoyable CWT events.
I only occassionally use the mic and ssb mode. I own several pair that I
use with their specific radios. I use them on my Elecraft K2, and KX2, my
Yaesu FTDX3000D, and my LNR Mountaintopper 3, 4, and 5b transceivers.  I
never have the slightest RF or feedback.  They are well worth buying and
using.  I highly recommend them.  The radios without ssb, I don’t use the
mic or mic plug but instead I keep it secured out of the way.
Steve-KI4EZL"

73 Eric WD6DBM

On Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 5:15 PM John Reilly  wrote:

> I recently purchased a Bose QC-45. I used it for about 5 minutes in a
> CWops contest, and got RF in the left headphone. I disconnected it, and
> returned to my Bose QC-35's. The QC-45's have been returned to Amazon.
>
> I had a similar problem earlier in the year with the Bose 700
> headphones. I tried various toroids, but never could isolate them from
> RF (particularly a problem on 40m). Obviously, this is is not something
> Bose is concerned with. Fortunately, the QC-35 gamer headphones work
> well. With all three headphones, I used the headphone cable (not
> Bluetooth -> delay problem). FWIW, I like the Bose noise cancelling
> because it does a good job attenuating KPA1500 fan noise.
>
> Has anyone used the Sony WH-1000XM3 headphones? How do they work in an
> RF environment?
>- 73, John, N0TA
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones (Again!)

[Dave Fugleberg]

I have the WH1000-MX3. I use them daily but for non-radio stuff. Easily the
best headphones I’ve ever had or used, for comfort and noise cancellation.
They sound great too.
I have used them with my KX2 when traveling, but I don’t think I’ve ever
used them at higher power so can’t comment on RFI or lack thereof.
They are amazing for air travel (not that I’m doing much of that lately).


On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 1:56 AM turnbull  wrote:

> John,I have the Sony WH 1000X M2.They are the most comfortable cans
> ever for me.   Noise cancellation is excellent esp as regards the KPA
> 1500.   I hear better with them and do so in comfort.   Never had the least
> bit of RF trbl from 160 to 6.73 Doug EI2CN   Age 77like a kid againSent
> from my Galaxy
>  Original message From: John Reilly 
> Date: 19/11/2021  01:16  (GMT+00:00) To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: [Elecraft] Headphones (Again!) I recently purchased a Bose QC-45.
> I used it for about 5 minutes in a CWops contest, and got RF in the left
> headphone. I disconnected it, and returned to my Bose QC-35's. The QC-45's
> have been returned to Amazon.I had a similar problem earlier in the year
> with the Bose 700 headphones. I tried various toroids, but never could
> isolate them from RF (particularly a problem on 40m). Obviously, this is is
> not something Bose is concerned with. Fortunately, the QC-35 gamer
> headphones work well. With all three headphones, I used the headphone cable
> (not Bluetooth -> delay problem). FWIW, I like the Bose noise cancelling
> because it does a good job attenuating KPA1500 fan noise.Has anyone used
> the Sony WH-1000XM3 headphones? How do they work in an RF environment?   -
> 73, John,
> N0TA__Elecraft
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones (Again!)

[turnbull]

John,I have the Sony WH 1000X M2.    They are the most comfortable cans ever 
for me.   Noise cancellation is excellent esp as regards the KPA 1500.   I hear 
better with them and do so in comfort.   Never had the least bit of RF trbl 
from 160 to 6.73 Doug EI2CN   Age 77    like a kid againSent from my Galaxy
 Original message From: John Reilly  
Date: 19/11/2021  01:16  (GMT+00:00) To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: 
[Elecraft] Headphones (Again!) I recently purchased a Bose QC-45. I used it for 
about 5 minutes in a CWops contest, and got RF in the left headphone. I 
disconnected it, and returned to my Bose QC-35's. The QC-45's have been 
returned to Amazon.I had a similar problem earlier in the year with the Bose 
700 headphones. I tried various toroids, but never could isolate them from RF 
(particularly a problem on 40m). Obviously, this is is not something Bose is 
concerned with. Fortunately, the QC-35 gamer headphones work well. With all 
three headphones, I used the headphone cable (not Bluetooth -> delay problem). 
FWIW, I like the Bose noise cancelling because it does a good job attenuating 
KPA1500 fan noise.Has anyone used the Sony WH-1000XM3 headphones? How do they 
work in an RF environment?   - 73, John, 
N0TA__Elecraft 
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones for Hearing Loss

[David Woolley]

I'm not sure that boosting high frequencies (assuming you have simple, 
age related, type losses) is really a safe thing to do.  Whilst hearing 
aids do this, they also apply dynamic range compression, to minimise the 
additional hearing damage caused by the aid for loud sources.


Incidentally, the standard correction applied by hearing aids is 
approximately half the number of dB's of loss.  They don't try to fully 
cancel the loss.


--
David Woolley

On 14/10/2021 00:24, Jim Brown wrote:


First, one that works for K6DGW, who mostly works CW and has a lot of 
hearing loss. Set RXEQ with maximum cut for the 3 lowest bands (50, 100, 
200) and cut at least 6 dB on the 4th (400 Hz). Set the highest bands 
for max boost. Depending on what note you like for CW, play with the 400 
Hz band.


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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones for Hearing Loss

[Gwen Patton]

You would need the most recent BLE 5.0 or above, with low latency support.
Then the delay is perhaps small enough that it won't make you crazy. I have
a Bluetooth transmitter in my bag to plug into devices that don't have
Bluetooth support, but I haven't used it for CW. Simple enough to use,
though. Plug it into the Aux or headphone jack. Pair with it, and it works.

This one is similar to mine, and has the APTX low latency BT 5.0.

Golvery Bluetooth 5.0 Transmitter Receiver for TV, Aptx LL/FS 40ms Wireless
Audio Adapter for Home Car Stereo PC CD Radio Xbox PS4 w/ 3.5mm RCA AUX
Jack, Pair 2 Headphones, No Delay, Plug n Play
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N4GK874/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_ECM6DF18ZAFRT3V5RAG1?_encoding=UTF8=1

You MIGHT want to use this with a splitter, so your can send the audio to
another device.

73,
Gwen, NG3P

On Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 7:25 PM Jim Brown  wrote:

> On 10/13/2021 4:01 PM, jerry wrote:
> > I tried this.  On CW, no go.  Too much delay in the bluetooth.  I could
> > not send.
>
> Yes, this a deal-killer if you're a CW op, and it can be a bit
> disconcerting (although not nearly as bad) if you also monitor your SSB
> signal.
>
> Several suggestions.
>
> First, one that works for K6DGW, who mostly works CW and has a lot of
> hearing loss. Set RXEQ with maximum cut for the 3 lowest bands (50, 100,
> 200) and cut at least 6 dB on the 4th (400 Hz). Set the highest bands
> for max boost. Depending on what note you like for CW, play with the 400
> Hz band.
>
> If your aids use mics that are in or behind the ear, try headphones that
> surround the ear to see if they will work for you. I don't wear aids,
> but my XYL has Resounds and likes them. If you haven't already bought
> aids, I suspect, but do not know, that a mic in the ear might work best.
> Sony MDR7506 or even the Yamaha CM500 should probably work with in-ear
> mics unless they cause feedback, but that could be fixed by a programmed
> setting that reduces gain.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones for Hearing Loss

[Jim Brown]

On 10/13/2021 9:18 PM, elelist...@elitemail.org wrote:
Headphones over these tends to cause feedback howl.  


If your aids have programmable settings that you can select from a menu, 
feedback could be eliminated by reducing gain when wearing phones.


For me, the direct connection to my receiver via bluetooth works well.  


Does it work well for sending CW from a paddle? THAT'S the problem with 
the latency many digital systems, including Bluetooth.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones for Hearing Loss

[elelist984]

Further to my recent email, here is an URL for usage instructions for the 
Taotronics dongle.  
https://www.taotronics.com/pages/how-to-use-taotronics-wireless-transmitter-adapter
   Prices are now around $30

Kevin (Elec eng gone bad - I got sucked into IT, the last refuge of scoundrels)

On Thu, 14 Oct 2021, at 17:02, elelist...@elitemail.org wrote:
> The bluetooth dongle is branded Taotronics on one side, and on the other, 
> "Wireless 2-in-1 Adapter Model TT-BA08 Input 5 v 280 mA FCCID:2AFDGBAXX Made 
> in China"
> 
> 73 all
> Kevin VK3DAP / ZL2DAP
> 
> On Thu, 14 Oct 2021, at 15:58, Julia Tuttle wrote:
>> Hi Kevin,
>> 
>> Which dongle is that? Low-latency Bluetooth transmitters are hard to come by 
>> and the specific model might be useful to others.
>> 
>> 73,
>> 
>> Julie
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 00:19  wrote:
>>> I have Phonak aids that are bluetooth enabled.  Headphones over these tends 
>>> to cause feedback howl.  For me, the direct connection to my receiver via 
>>> bluetooth works well.  I have a bluetooth dongle that plugs into the xcvr 
>>> audio output.  The dongle cost me about AUD14.00.  I paired it with my aids 
>>> and it is good.
>>> 
>>> vy 73
>>> Kevin VK3DAP / ZL2DAP
>>> 
>>> On Thu, 14 Oct 2021, at 15:04, Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP wrote:
>>> > I also tried with the device Resound sells. It just didn't work very 
>>> > well for CW, even though I asked the audiologist to program my aids to 
>>> > not try to suppress tones around 500 Hz. I didn't check the delay, 
>>> > because the sound was too weak to be usable. Worked great for TV, 
>>> > though. Ultimately I returned it.
>>> >
>>> > 73,
>>> > Victor, 4X6GP
>>> > Rehovot, Israel
>>> > CWops #5
>>> > Formerly K2VCO
>>> > https://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>>> >
>>> > On 14/10/2021 1:52, Robert Strickland via Elecraft wrote:
>>> >> I have ReSound hearing aids with a BlueTooth receive capability. They 
>>> >> link up with my iPhone automatically. Can I buy a generic BlueTooth 
>>> >> transmitter, plug it into my K3s and have the same type of hassle free 
>>> >> link, or are there compatibility technical issues about which I am 
>>> >> unaware? Thanks for info and opinions.
>>> >>
>>> >> ...robert KE2WY
>>> >>
>>> >> On 26 Jan 2021 16:22, Joseph Shuman via Elecraft wrote:
>>> >>> I have severe high-frequency hearing loss, up to 85 dB at 6-8KHz and 
>>> >>> 60 dB at 3-4KHz.  Lower than that my hearing is close to normal for 
>>> >>> my age.  I use hearing aids and the style I have won’t work with 
>>> >>> headphones.  I have the equalizer on the KX2 set to boost the highs, 
>>> >>> OK with an external amp & speaker but it is not enough with the 
>>> >>> headphones I have.  Any experience/recommendations with headphones 
>>> >>> that have a built-in equalizer or treble boost?  SSB operator.  (KX2 
>>> >>> #3007, KXPA100 #2802)
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Keeping Watch-
>>> >>> shu
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Joe Shuman, NZ8P
>>> >>> __
>>> >>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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>>> >>> Message delivered to rc...@verizon.net
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> > __
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones for Hearing Loss

[elelist984]

The bluetooth dongle is branded Taotronics on one side, and on the other, 
"Wireless 2-in-1 Adapter Model TT-BA08 Input 5 v 280 mA FCCID:2AFDGBAXX Made in 
China"

73 all
Kevin VK3DAP / ZL2DAP

On Thu, 14 Oct 2021, at 15:58, Julia Tuttle wrote:
> Hi Kevin,
> 
> Which dongle is that? Low-latency Bluetooth transmitters are hard to come by 
> and the specific model might be useful to others.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Julie
> 
> 
> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 00:19  wrote:
>> I have Phonak aids that are bluetooth enabled.  Headphones over these tends 
>> to cause feedback howl.  For me, the direct connection to my receiver via 
>> bluetooth works well.  I have a bluetooth dongle that plugs into the xcvr 
>> audio output.  The dongle cost me about AUD14.00.  I paired it with my aids 
>> and it is good.
>> 
>> vy 73
>> Kevin VK3DAP / ZL2DAP
>> 
>> On Thu, 14 Oct 2021, at 15:04, Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP wrote:
>> > I also tried with the device Resound sells. It just didn't work very 
>> > well for CW, even though I asked the audiologist to program my aids to 
>> > not try to suppress tones around 500 Hz. I didn't check the delay, 
>> > because the sound was too weak to be usable. Worked great for TV, 
>> > though. Ultimately I returned it.
>> >
>> > 73,
>> > Victor, 4X6GP
>> > Rehovot, Israel
>> > CWops #5
>> > Formerly K2VCO
>> > https://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>> >
>> > On 14/10/2021 1:52, Robert Strickland via Elecraft wrote:
>> >> I have ReSound hearing aids with a BlueTooth receive capability. They 
>> >> link up with my iPhone automatically. Can I buy a generic BlueTooth 
>> >> transmitter, plug it into my K3s and have the same type of hassle free 
>> >> link, or are there compatibility technical issues about which I am 
>> >> unaware? Thanks for info and opinions.
>> >>
>> >> ...robert KE2WY
>> >>
>> >> On 26 Jan 2021 16:22, Joseph Shuman via Elecraft wrote:
>> >>> I have severe high-frequency hearing loss, up to 85 dB at 6-8KHz and 
>> >>> 60 dB at 3-4KHz.  Lower than that my hearing is close to normal for 
>> >>> my age.  I use hearing aids and the style I have won’t work with 
>> >>> headphones.  I have the equalizer on the KX2 set to boost the highs, 
>> >>> OK with an external amp & speaker but it is not enough with the 
>> >>> headphones I have.  Any experience/recommendations with headphones 
>> >>> that have a built-in equalizer or treble boost?  SSB operator.  (KX2 
>> >>> #3007, KXPA100 #2802)
>> >>>
>> >>> Keeping Watch-
>> >>> shu
>> >>>
>> >>> Joe Shuman, NZ8P
>> >>> __
>> >>> Elecraft mailing list
>> >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> >>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> >>>
>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> >>> Message delivered to rc...@verizon.net
>> >>>
>> >>
>> > __
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones for Hearing Loss

[Julia Tuttle]

Hi Kevin,

Which dongle is that? Low-latency Bluetooth transmitters are hard to come
by and the specific model might be useful to others.

73,

Julie


On Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 00:19  wrote:

> I have Phonak aids that are bluetooth enabled.  Headphones over these
> tends to cause feedback howl.  For me, the direct connection to my receiver
> via bluetooth works well.  I have a bluetooth dongle that plugs into the
> xcvr audio output.  The dongle cost me about AUD14.00.  I paired it with my
> aids and it is good.
>
> vy 73
> Kevin VK3DAP / ZL2DAP
>
> On Thu, 14 Oct 2021, at 15:04, Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP wrote:
> > I also tried with the device Resound sells. It just didn't work very
> > well for CW, even though I asked the audiologist to program my aids to
> > not try to suppress tones around 500 Hz. I didn't check the delay,
> > because the sound was too weak to be usable. Worked great for TV,
> > though. Ultimately I returned it.
> >
> > 73,
> > Victor, 4X6GP
> > Rehovot, Israel
> > CWops #5
> > Formerly K2VCO
> > https://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
> >
> > On 14/10/2021 1:52, Robert Strickland via Elecraft wrote:
> >> I have ReSound hearing aids with a BlueTooth receive capability. They
> >> link up with my iPhone automatically. Can I buy a generic BlueTooth
> >> transmitter, plug it into my K3s and have the same type of hassle free
> >> link, or are there compatibility technical issues about which I am
> >> unaware? Thanks for info and opinions.
> >>
> >> ...robert KE2WY
> >>
> >> On 26 Jan 2021 16:22, Joseph Shuman via Elecraft wrote:
> >>> I have severe high-frequency hearing loss, up to 85 dB at 6-8KHz and
> >>> 60 dB at 3-4KHz.  Lower than that my hearing is close to normal for
> >>> my age.  I use hearing aids and the style I have won’t work with
> >>> headphones.  I have the equalizer on the KX2 set to boost the highs,
> >>> OK with an external amp & speaker but it is not enough with the
> >>> headphones I have.  Any experience/recommendations with headphones
> >>> that have a built-in equalizer or treble boost?  SSB operator.  (KX2
> >>> #3007, KXPA100 #2802)
> >>>
> >>> Keeping Watch-
> >>> shu
> >>>
> >>> Joe Shuman, NZ8P
> >>> __
> >>> Elecraft mailing list
> >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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> >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >>> Message delivered to rc...@verizon.net
> >>>
> >>
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones for Hearing Loss

[elelist984]

I have Phonak aids that are bluetooth enabled.  Headphones over these tends to 
cause feedback howl.  For me, the direct connection to my receiver via 
bluetooth works well.  I have a bluetooth dongle that plugs into the xcvr audio 
output.  The dongle cost me about AUD14.00.  I paired it with my aids and it is 
good.

vy 73
Kevin VK3DAP / ZL2DAP

On Thu, 14 Oct 2021, at 15:04, Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP wrote:
> I also tried with the device Resound sells. It just didn't work very 
> well for CW, even though I asked the audiologist to program my aids to 
> not try to suppress tones around 500 Hz. I didn't check the delay, 
> because the sound was too weak to be usable. Worked great for TV, 
> though. Ultimately I returned it.
>
> 73,
> Victor, 4X6GP
> Rehovot, Israel
> CWops #5
> Formerly K2VCO
> https://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>
> On 14/10/2021 1:52, Robert Strickland via Elecraft wrote:
>> I have ReSound hearing aids with a BlueTooth receive capability. They 
>> link up with my iPhone automatically. Can I buy a generic BlueTooth 
>> transmitter, plug it into my K3s and have the same type of hassle free 
>> link, or are there compatibility technical issues about which I am 
>> unaware? Thanks for info and opinions.
>>
>> ...robert KE2WY
>>
>> On 26 Jan 2021 16:22, Joseph Shuman via Elecraft wrote:
>>> I have severe high-frequency hearing loss, up to 85 dB at 6-8KHz and 
>>> 60 dB at 3-4KHz.  Lower than that my hearing is close to normal for 
>>> my age.  I use hearing aids and the style I have won’t work with 
>>> headphones.  I have the equalizer on the KX2 set to boost the highs, 
>>> OK with an external amp & speaker but it is not enough with the 
>>> headphones I have.  Any experience/recommendations with headphones 
>>> that have a built-in equalizer or treble boost?  SSB operator.  (KX2 
>>> #3007, KXPA100 #2802)
>>>
>>> Keeping Watch-
>>> shu
>>>
>>> Joe Shuman, NZ8P
>>> __
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>>>
>>
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones for Hearing Loss

[Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP]

I also tried with the device Resound sells. It just didn't work very 
well for CW, even though I asked the audiologist to program my aids to 
not try to suppress tones around 500 Hz. I didn't check the delay, 
because the sound was too weak to be usable. Worked great for TV, 
though. Ultimately I returned it.


73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
CWops #5
Formerly K2VCO
https://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

On 14/10/2021 1:52, Robert Strickland via Elecraft wrote:
I have ReSound hearing aids with a BlueTooth receive capability. They 
link up with my iPhone automatically. Can I buy a generic BlueTooth 
transmitter, plug it into my K3s and have the same type of hassle free 
link, or are there compatibility technical issues about which I am 
unaware? Thanks for info and opinions.


...robert KE2WY

On 26 Jan 2021 16:22, Joseph Shuman via Elecraft wrote:
I have severe high-frequency hearing loss, up to 85 dB at 6-8KHz and 
60 dB at 3-4KHz.  Lower than that my hearing is close to normal for 
my age.  I use hearing aids and the style I have won’t work with 
headphones.  I have the equalizer on the KX2 set to boost the highs, 
OK with an external amp & speaker but it is not enough with the 
headphones I have.  Any experience/recommendations with headphones 
that have a built-in equalizer or treble boost?  SSB operator.  (KX2 
#3007, KXPA100 #2802)


Keeping Watch-
shu

Joe Shuman, NZ8P
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones for Hearing Loss

[Ken Widelitz]

The Heil PRAS works extremely well for me.

73, Ken, K6LA / VY2TT

On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 3:54 PM Robert Strickland via Elecraft <
elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote:

> I have ReSound hearing aids with a BlueTooth receive capability. They
> link up with my iPhone automatically. Can I buy a generic BlueTooth
> transmitter, plug it into my K3s and have the same type of hassle free
> link, or are there compatibility technical issues about which I am
> unaware? Thanks for info and opinions.
>
> ...robert KE2WY
>
> On 26 Jan 2021 16:22, Joseph Shuman via Elecraft wrote:
> > I have severe high-frequency hearing loss, up to 85 dB at 6-8KHz and 60
> dB at 3-4KHz.  Lower than that my hearing is close to normal for my age.  I
> use hearing aids and the style I have won’t work with headphones.  I have
> the equalizer on the KX2 set to boost the highs, OK with an external amp &
> speaker but it is not enough with the headphones I have.  Any
> experience/recommendations with headphones that have a built-in equalizer
> or treble boost?  SSB operator.  (KX2 #3007, KXPA100 #2802)
> >
> > Keeping Watch-
> > shu
> >
> > Joe Shuman, NZ8P
> > __
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to rc...@verizon.net
> >
>
> --
> Robert G Strickland, PhD ABPH - KE2WY
> rc...@verizon.net.usa
> Syracuse, New York, USA
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones for Hearing Loss

[Jim Brown]

On 10/13/2021 4:01 PM, jerry wrote:
I tried this.  On CW, no go.  Too much delay in the bluetooth.  I could 
not send.


Yes, this a deal-killer if you're a CW op, and it can be a bit 
disconcerting (although not nearly as bad) if you also monitor your SSB 
signal.


Several suggestions.

First, one that works for K6DGW, who mostly works CW and has a lot of 
hearing loss. Set RXEQ with maximum cut for the 3 lowest bands (50, 100, 
200) and cut at least 6 dB on the 4th (400 Hz). Set the highest bands 
for max boost. Depending on what note you like for CW, play with the 400 
Hz band.


If your aids use mics that are in or behind the ear, try headphones that 
surround the ear to see if they will work for you. I don't wear aids, 
but my XYL has Resounds and likes them. If you haven't already bought 
aids, I suspect, but do not know, that a mic in the ear might work best. 
Sony MDR7506 or even the Yamaha CM500 should probably work with in-ear 
mics unless they cause feedback, but that could be fixed by a programmed 
setting that reduces gain.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones for Hearing Loss

[jerry]

I tried this.  On CW, no go.  Too much delay in the bluetooth.  I could 
not send.


   - Jerry KF6VB


On 2021-10-13 15:52, Robert Strickland via Elecraft wrote:

I have ReSound hearing aids with a BlueTooth receive capability. They
link up with my iPhone automatically. Can I buy a generic BlueTooth
transmitter, plug it into my K3s and have the same type of hassle free
link, or are there compatibility technical issues about which I am
unaware? Thanks for info and opinions.

...robert KE2WY

On 26 Jan 2021 16:22, Joseph Shuman via Elecraft wrote:
I have severe high-frequency hearing loss, up to 85 dB at 6-8KHz and 
60 dB at 3-4KHz.  Lower than that my hearing is close to normal for my 
age.  I use hearing aids and the style I have won’t work with 
headphones.  I have the equalizer on the KX2 set to boost the highs, 
OK with an external amp & speaker but it is not enough with the 
headphones I have.  Any experience/recommendations with headphones 
that have a built-in equalizer or treble boost?  SSB operator.  (KX2 
#3007, KXPA100 #2802)


Keeping Watch-
shu

Joe Shuman, NZ8P
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones for Hearing Loss

[Robert Strickland via Elecraft]

I have ReSound hearing aids with a BlueTooth receive capability. They 
link up with my iPhone automatically. Can I buy a generic BlueTooth 
transmitter, plug it into my K3s and have the same type of hassle free 
link, or are there compatibility technical issues about which I am 
unaware? Thanks for info and opinions.


...robert KE2WY

On 26 Jan 2021 16:22, Joseph Shuman via Elecraft wrote:

I have severe high-frequency hearing loss, up to 85 dB at 6-8KHz and 60 dB at 
3-4KHz.  Lower than that my hearing is close to normal for my age.  I use hearing 
aids and the style I have won’t work with headphones.  I have the equalizer on the 
KX2 set to boost the highs, OK with an external amp & speaker but it is not 
enough with the headphones I have.  Any experience/recommendations with headphones 
that have a built-in equalizer or treble boost?  SSB operator.  (KX2 #3007, KXPA100 
#2802)

Keeping Watch-
shu

Joe Shuman, NZ8P
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--
Robert G Strickland, PhD ABPH - KE2WY
rc...@verizon.net.usa
Syracuse, New York, USA
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones for Hearing Loss

[Joseph Shuman via Elecraft]

After reading the replies and trying out some options, I decided to try what 
John (K4TOO) suggested.  I was amazed at the results of using the bone 
conduction headphones.  My HF hearing loss is a result of machinery noise from 
the Submarine service with associated tinnitus.  Basically I have 24/7 cicadas 
in my head, louder than normal speech volume.  In my case, the conduction 
pathway apparently compensates for the tinnitus to a large extent so that 
speech under the band noise became much more discernible.  On the down side, 
the conduction headphones were lousy for listening to Pink Floyd.  Thanks to 
John and all who contributed.

Keeping Watch-
shu
Joe Shuman, NZ8P

Unless someone like you 
cares a whole awful lot, 
nothing is going to get better. 
It’s not. -Dr. Seuss

> On Jan 26, 2021, at 11:41, John Sublette (K4TOO)  wrote:
> 
> Hey Joe,
> 
> Have you tried the bone conducting headphones?  I'll put a link to a wired 
> pair on Amazon.  I have the Aeropex from Aftershokz that are bluetooth which 
> I like very much.  However, I don't have the same condition you do - but I've 
> heard from those that have hearing loss that a set of bone conducting 
> headphones allow them to hear so much more than they're used to.  Let me know 
> what you think.  -John.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/AfterShokz-Titanium-Conduction-Headphones-AS401XB/dp/B01N2OOJY8
> 
> 73,
> John (K4TOO)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 11:23 AM Joseph Shuman via Elecraft 
>  wrote:
>> I have severe high-frequency hearing loss, up to 85 dB at 6-8KHz and 60 dB 
>> at 3-4KHz.  Lower than that my hearing is close to normal for my age.  I use 
>> hearing aids and the style I have won’t work with headphones.  I have the 
>> equalizer on the KX2 set to boost the highs, OK with an external amp & 
>> speaker but it is not enough with the headphones I have.  Any 
>> experience/recommendations with headphones that have a built-in equalizer or 
>> treble boost?  SSB operator.  (KX2 #3007, KXPA100 #2802) 
>> 
>> Keeping Watch-
>> shu
>> 
>> Joe Shuman, NZ8P
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones for Hearing Loss

[Rick Bates, NK7I]

I may have missed or forgotten it; but does the computer portion of the 
K4 (the network chip specifically) allow for BlueTooth audio from the RF 
portion so one could use a BT headset (hearing aids)?


I have a BT headset with a (no boom) mic used on a iPhone that would be 
awesome to retask for phone on the K4 audio.  Two less wires on the desk...


73,
Rick NK7I

PS if not, one for the want list?


On 1/26/2021 4:45 PM, Joseph Shuman via Elecraft wrote:

Thanks to everyone.  A lot of good experience and advice to consider.

Keeping Watch -
shu

Joe Shuman, NZ8P
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones for Hearing Loss

[Joseph Shuman via Elecraft]

Thanks to everyone.  A lot of good experience and advice to consider.

Keeping Watch -
shu

Joe Shuman, NZ8P 
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones for Hearing Loss

[Jim Brown]

On 1/26/2021 1:24 PM, Phil Kane wrote:
My aids are Phonak Audeo as well - high priced devices that are behind 
the ear with receivers in the outer canal.


Several comments here. First, hearing "doctors" who sell hearing aids 
get a 100% commission for what they sell, doubling the cost to the 
buyer. When my XYL was looking for aids, several ham friends who also 
happen to be engineers, recommended Costco. I went with her to the 
appointment to check her hearing and prescribe aids, and I took the same 
evaluation as she did. I was also present when they "tuned" the aids she 
bought a few weeks later. As an audio professional, I had to learn a lot 
about human hearing, and I was VERY impressed with every aspect of the 
process. They used excellent instrumentation, and the people doing it 
knew what they were doing. AND -- Costco sells top quality aids without 
the 100% markup, so the cost is half of what we would pay to an 
audiologist's office.


Second, the aids she bought (about $3K for the pair), can be programmed 
for multiple settings, which can be recalled and tweaked from an app 
that runs on her Android phone and on her iPad, but the iPad app is 
superior to the Android app.


Third -- a good friend who has severe hearing loss asked for help 
setting his K3 to compensate. My advice to him was to set RXEQ for 
maximum cut of all bands below 1 kHz and max boost of the remaining 
bands. He reported that it works well for him. When doing these tweaks, 
I suggest varying the 1 kHz setting "by ear." Also, set the IF bandwidth 
for 500 Hz-3kHz audio bandwidth.


Finally, I strongly recommend that Wayne build "hearing impaired" 
settings into K4 firmware. I'd be happy to consult with him on this.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones for Hearing Loss (Mark WU6R)

[Bill Cobb]

My Philips hearing aids (Costco sourced) work well under my Yamaha CM500
headphones and have all the aforementioned control capabilities. I didn’t
opt for rechargeable batteries as the feature did not appear cost
effective.

Bill K4YJJ

On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 2:25 PM Mark Wheeler via Elecraft <
elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote:

>
>
> Shu,
>
>
> I have pretty severe hearing loss and my solution is a behind the ear
> Bluetooth controlled hearing aid that has an accompanying smart phone app
> that allows me to boost or otherwise customize on the fly bass, mids, and
> treble.  Additional on the fly customizable features include noise
> reduction, speech focus, and wind noise reduction.  Mine is also lithium
> battery-powered and rechargeable which is a big convenience.  Although it
> isn't a complete fix to the problem, it is a real big improvement.  It is a
> major improvement over my previous in-the-ear hearing aid.  I'm happy to
> share more details if you are interested.
>
>
> Regards,
> Mark WU6R
> mark3...@icloud.com
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones for Hearing Loss

[Phil Kane]

On 1/26/2021 11:40 AM, David Bunte wrote:


The option of piping your rig into your hearing aids might be the solution
if you have that option.


My aids are Phonak Audeo as well - high priced devices that are behind 
the ear with receivers in the outer canal.  I also use a Phonak 
CommPilot device with a loop that hangs around my neck and feeds signals 
to the aids by induction.  The Comm Pilot is Bluetooth paired with my 
mobile phone for hands-free operation and has a 3.5 mm "Audio Jack" that 
permits me to feed audio from external devices with a suitable cable. 
The audio feels like it's inside my head, and the aids' primary function 
of boosting external sounds is reduced slightly but not eliminated. 
Batteries in the aids last about a week if disconnected while I sleep, 
and the CommPilot is put on charge at that time as well.  Not much of a 
learning curve.  Works well with my computer and radios.


73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones for Hearing Loss

[David Bunte]

Shu -

Please allow me to add my thoughts to the discussion. My hearing loss is
not profound, but when I started using hearing aids I had to ditch my
Yamaha CM-500 headset, as its over the ear style rubbed against the behind
the ear receiver in canal style of my hearing aid. That made for a LOT of
unwanted noise. I went to an on the ear headset and have been very happy.

That might not do the job for someone with severe hearing loss because the
mic for the aid is in the unit behind the ear. I use the Bluetooth
capability of these hearing aids for phone calls and it is amazing how good
it sounds... better than using the phone in a more conventional manner. My
hearing aids do allow me to boost the high end, and I can adjust the levels
between the right and left aid. These units are Phonak Audeo P90 units. I
had to pay big bucks because they are not covered by any of my insurance.
My brother-in-law just got a pair like these through the VA at no cost to
him... he thanked me for paying my taxes.

The option of piping your rig into your hearing aids might be the solution
if you have that option.

Best of luck and very 73 de Dave - K9FN

On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 11:24 AM Joseph Shuman via Elecraft <
elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote:

> I have severe high-frequency hearing loss, up to 85 dB at 6-8KHz and 60 dB
> at 3-4KHz.  Lower than that my hearing is close to normal for my age.  I
> use hearing aids and the style I have won’t work with headphones.  I have
> the equalizer on the KX2 set to boost the highs, OK with an external amp &
> speaker but it is not enough with the headphones I have.  Any
> experience/recommendations with headphones that have a built-in equalizer
> or treble boost?  SSB operator.  (KX2 #3007, KXPA100 #2802)
>
> Keeping Watch-
> shu
>
> Joe Shuman, NZ8P
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones for Hearing Loss

[David Woolley]

Firstly, nothing above about 3.4kHz is relevant for communications, and 
for typical SSB that is down to about 2.7 to 3kHz.


However, with a large hearing loss, you really need to find a solution 
that uses the hearing aids, as digital aids will have safety features 
and dynamic range compression that will minimise further damage to your 
hearing.


You didn't mention which style you had.  Whilst open fit would be common 
for people with good low frequency responses, I'm not sure that they 
would be used with that level of loss.  I have full moulds, because I 
have an atypical loss in one ear, so I'm not sure of the limitations of 
open fit, but as they normally bypass the low frequencies, they may be 
unsuitable for a direct audio feed.


I'm not sure to what extent that also applies to receiver in the canal.

I suspect the direct bypass means they are less stable against feedback.

For full moulds, and over the ear, I think you would normally get the 
options of electrical connections to audio shoes, induction loop, 
bluetooth (and 3.5mm audio) adapters that you wear on the body and send 
a very short range transmission to the actual aids.  Some aids would 
directly support bluetooth.


Incidentally, it may well not be well known, but hearing aid 
prescriptions generally under-compensate by about a factor of two in the 
dB values, so an aid for a 60dB loss would, typically, only have 30dB 
gain at the frequency in question.


--
David Woolley

On 26/01/2021 16:22, Joseph Shuman wrote:

I have severe high-frequency hearing loss, up to 85 dB at 6-8KHz and 60 dB at 
3-4KHz.  Lower than that my hearing is close to normal for my age.  I use hearing 
aids and the style I have won’t work with headphones.  I have the equalizer on the 
KX2 set to boost the highs, OK with an external amp & speaker but it is not 
enough with the headphones I have.  Any experience/recommendations with headphones 
that have a built-in equalizer or treble boost?  SSB operator.  (KX2 #3007, KXPA100 
#2802)



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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones for Hearing Loss

[H.R. Freeman]

I have moderate to heavy hearing loss after spending 10 years on the 
flight line around jet engines. Rock and roll didn't help much either. I 
like the open air Yeasu YH77sta in the shack and on filed day when you 
need to talk with a logger. They do not interfere with my Phonak over 
the ear aids.


Harry NK9R

On 1/26/2021 11:22 AM, Joseph Shuman via Elecraft wrote:

I have severe high-frequency hearing loss, up to 85 dB at 6-8KHz and 60 dB at 
3-4KHz.  Lower than that my hearing is close to normal for my age.  I use hearing 
aids and the style I have won’t work with headphones.  I have the equalizer on the 
KX2 set to boost the highs, OK with an external amp & speaker but it is not 
enough with the headphones I have.  Any experience/recommendations with headphones 
that have a built-in equalizer or treble boost?  SSB operator.  (KX2 #3007, KXPA100 
#2802)

Keeping Watch-
shu

Joe Shuman, NZ8P
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones for Hearing Loss

[Ken Widelitz]

I use the Heil PARS with Bose QC35 headphones which are far and away the
most comfortable cans I have ever used. Until I got them, I gave up on cans
and just used earbuds. My hearing loss is mostly limited to my left ear, so
I break out the left audio stream to the PARS and adjust volume so it is
centered in my head.

73, Ken, K6LA / VY2TT

On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 8:24 AM Joseph Shuman via Elecraft <
elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote:

> I have severe high-frequency hearing loss, up to 85 dB at 6-8KHz and 60 dB
> at 3-4KHz.  Lower than that my hearing is close to normal for my age.  I
> use hearing aids and the style I have won’t work with headphones.  I have
> the equalizer on the KX2 set to boost the highs, OK with an external amp &
> speaker but it is not enough with the headphones I have.  Any
> experience/recommendations with headphones that have a built-in equalizer
> or treble boost?  SSB operator.  (KX2 #3007, KXPA100 #2802)
>
> Keeping Watch-
> shu
>
> Joe Shuman, NZ8P
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones for Hearing Loss

[Ken B via Elecraft]

 Following with great interest - as have a similar issue 
On Tuesday, January 26, 2021, 11:24:41 AM EST, Joseph Shuman via Elecraft 
 wrote:  
 
 I have severe high-frequency hearing loss, up to 85 dB at 6-8KHz and 60 dB at 
3-4KHz.  Lower than that my hearing is close to normal for my age.  I use 
hearing aids and the style I have won’t work with headphones.  I have the 
equalizer on the KX2 set to boost the highs, OK with an external amp & speaker 
but it is not enough with the headphones I have.  Any 
experience/recommendations with headphones that have a built-in equalizer or 
treble boost?  SSB operator.  (KX2 #3007, KXPA100 #2802) 

Keeping Watch-
shu

Joe Shuman, NZ8P
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Louandzip via Elecraft]

>>>The Sony phones are great. I didn't use them with ham radio though. Too 
>>>large of a freq response<<<
There're no undesirable frequencies in the audio going to my Sony phones so I 
don't need them to do any subsequent filtering.  The filtering and shaping of 
the audio occurs before the headphones. 
 
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[W3AB]

The Sony phones are great. I didn't use them with ham radio though. Too large 
of a freq response. So they're for sale.

I've almost always used Heil products and currently have the Pro 7 which have 
exceeded my expectations. I use geekria multi-colored earpad covers on all.

⁣___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO​

On Jan 16, 2021, 11:48, at 11:48, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote:
>Send Elecraft mailing list submissions to
>   elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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>   elecraft-ow...@mailman.qth.net
>
>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>than "Re: Contents of Elecraft digest..."
>
>
>Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Headphones (Paul Ecker)
>   2. Re: How to download firmware into K4 (Bill Frantz)
>   3. Re: How to download firmware into K4 (Grant Youngman)
>   4. Re: Head Phones (Charlie T)
>   5. Re: Head Phones (Edward R Cole)
>   6. Re: K4HD Availability Schedule (Augie "Gus" Hansen)
>   7. Headphones (Paul Ecker)
>   8. Re: Head Phones (j...@kk9a.com)
>   9. K4 Pan bandwidth or span (Morgan Bailey)
>  10. Re: How to download firmware into K4 (Tim Tucker)
>  11. Re: How to download firmware into K4 (Bob Wilson, N6TV)
>  12. tip of 3.5 mm plug remains in key jack (Eugen Bauknecht)
>  13. Activity on the Elecraft reflector (Ed Stallman)
>  14. Re: tip of 3.5 mm plug remains in key jack (Rich NE1EE)
>  15. Re: Activity on the Elecraft reflector (weave...@usermail.com)
>  16. Re: tip of 3.5 mm plug remains in key jack (Chris Waldrup)
>  17. Re: Activity on the Elecraft reflector (Ed Stallman)
>  18. Re: Activity on the Elecraft reflector (Don Wilhelm)
>  19. Re: Activity on the Elecraft reflector (turnbull)
>  20. Re: tip of 3.5 mm plug remains in key jack (Phil Kane)
>  21. Re: tip of 3.5 mm plug remains in key jack (Gwen Patton)
>  22. KPA500 AND LP-BRIDGE (Phil Whitchurch)
>  23. Re: tip of 3.5 mm plug remains in key jack (Eugen DL4SAS)
>  24. Re: tip of 3.5 mm plug remains in key jack (Rich NE1EE)
>  25. K4 Roadtrip. Winter field day (Greg Herman)
>
>
>--
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 08:59:35 -0500
>From: Paul Ecker 
>To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>Subject: [Elecraft] Headphones
>Message-ID:
>   
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
>Well seems like the Sony MDR-7506 is the way to go. Thank you to all
>for
>the recommendations and explanations on why.
>
>73 & Be Safe
>Paul
>w2eck
>
>
>--
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 10:02:38 -0500
>From: Bill Frantz 
>To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] How to download firmware into K4
>Message-ID:
>   
> 
>   
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
>It sounds like I might be in trouble since the only Internet 
>access in my shack is via Wifi on my phone. Guess why I'm always 
>contesting as unassisted.
>
>73 Bill AE6JV
>
>On 1/13/21 at 2:37 AM, n...@arrl.net (Bob Wilson, N6TV) wrote:
>
>>Yes, you connect the K4 Ethernet port to your Router or Ethernet
>switch,
>>then software updates may be downloaded on demand direct from the
>Internet
>>by tapping Fn > UPDATE and following the prompts.
>---
>Bill Frantz| If you want total security, go to prison. 
>There you're
>408-348-7900   | fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. 
>The only
>www.pwpconsult.com | thing lacking is freedom. - Dwight D. Eisenhower
>
>
>
>--
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 10:20:42 -0500
>From: Grant Youngman 
>To: Bill Frantz 
>Cc: Elecraft Refl 
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] How to download firmware into K4
>Message-ID: <20dfdd82-3d51-4b73-8b19-445ab2477...@gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain;  charset=us-ascii
>
>Do you have a computer somewhere else?  Connected to the internet?  You
>will be able to, I think, download the firmware, put it on a USB thumb
>drive, and update the K4 from the thumb drive.
>
>Grant NQ5T
>
>> On Jan 14, 2021, at 10:02 AM, Bill Frantz 
>wrote:
>> 
>> It sounds like I might be in trouble since the only Internet access
>in my shack is via Wifi on my phone. Guess why I'm always contesting as
>unassisted.
>> 
>> 73 Bill AE6JV
>> 
>> On 1/13/21 at 2:37 AM, n...@arrl.net (Bob Wilson, N6TV) wrote:
>> 
>>> Yes, you connect the K4 Ethernet port to your Router or Ethernet
>switch,
>>> then software updates may be downloaded on demand direct from the
>Internet
>>> by tapping Fn > UPDATE and following the prompts.
>
>
>
>--
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2021 23:18:56 -0500
>From: "Charlie T" 
>To: 
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Head Phones
>Message-ID: 

Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Phil Kane]

On 5/10/2020 8:14 AM, Gwen Patton wrote:

>  I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Neither did I, but I am a lawyer who deals in this area.

Part 15 sets the minimum standard for RF emissions from devices that do
not require individual or blanket station licenses.  If they don't
comply, they can't be used legally or be marketed (a "term of art" that
covers manufacture, sell, offer for sale, ship, modify, and in some
cases, use).  Compliant devices must be certified by the manufacturer
and labeled as meeting those standards.   There are certain exemptions
for home-brew ham equipment and school projects.

Regulatory law is clear - even if the emissions from a device comply
with the levels mandated in Part 15, if they cause harmful interference
(another "term of art") to licensed/authorized communications, the
operator of the Part 15 device is required to cease such operation until
the interference is abated.

Conversely, as many have noted, if the Part 15 device gets interfered
with by signals from a licenses/authorized station or device, it's
"tough".  What part of "must accept" is not clear?

A good part of my early legal career was devoted to assisting and
defending hams against claims of interference to consumer-level
entertainment equipment.  Much of that has gone away, because the
European Union has regulations about how such equipment must reject
outside signals and reputable manufacturers are adhering to those
standards if they want to sell in the worldwide market. The FCC has
kicked around establishing similar standards for decades with no action,
relying on the broad "must accept" to protect the public.

 When is the last time that we here have had to deal with a substantial
claim of causing TVI ("Tennessee Valley Indians)?  Not since I have been
running my K2.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
ARRL Volunteer Counsel
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Gwen Patton]

It's clear that if you are the one with the Part 15 device, and someone
else interferes with that device, because of the law you have to just suck
it up because Part 15 devices aren't made to be "hardened" against
interference to the same degree other devices under different parts of the
law might be. But it's not commutative -- just because the Part 15 device
"must accept" interference doesn't mean that owners of other devices under
different parts of the law "must accept" interference FROM Part 15 devices.
It's not a case of *modus ponens*, where if A implies B, then B implies A.

So if I have a case of a Part 15 device causing spurious signals on my HF
station, then the Part 15 manufacturer should DEFINITELY be informed, since
while they must accept interference from my HF station on their headphones,
I do NOT have to accept interference on my HF station FROM their
headphones. They have to keep their spurious radiation in bands operated by
other services within the specifications. This is why there can be FCC
enforcement procedures against grow lamp manufacturers and wall wart
manufacturers because of interference in Amateur bands generated by those
consumer devices. The attached FCC bulletin would seem to corroborate my
understanding.

So would this paragraph from the ARRL site on FCC Enforcement Actions
specifically about Part 15 devices interfering with amateur operations: *"The
FCC Part 15 regulations are clear that the manufacturers of unlicensed
devices must meet the appropriate conducted - or radiated-emissions
requirements and that the operators of those devices are responsible for
resolving any harmful interference to radio services that might occur from
their use."*

IANAL, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

https://transition.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Documents/bulletins/oet63/oet63rev.pdf


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
73,
Gwen, NG3P


On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 7:27 AM Dave Sublette  wrote:

> The answer to your question  seems obvious to me.  I am not a lawyer.  Your
> equipment had to operate too much more stringent requirements because human
> life is at stake.  The part 15 "must accept" clause says that if you are
> being interfered with on your Part 15 device, is it not legal grounds to
> award damages in a court case.  It won't keep someone from from filing a
> suit.  But without that clause we hams might be hauled into court by every
> one who is interfered with.  We have been, but Part 15 has kept the
> practice from proliferating.  Devices sold under part 15 are not used in
> situations where human life is at stake.  Well they probably are, but are
> not designed specifically to operate that way as are aircraft radio and
> navigation systems.
>
> In addition, the "must accept" clause releases hams from the legal and
> financial obligations to correct the problem.  I should think that it also
> releases the manufacturer from that also.
>
> I'm not a lawyer.  It's just my take on it.
>
> 73,
>
> Dave, K4TO
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 11:38 PM Mark Goldberg 
> wrote:
>
> > I do want to understand what "must accept" means. Why did the FCC put #2
> in
> > there?
> >
> > I'm from the avionics industry. We have to not produce unwanted RF
> > interference and we have to operate correctly in the presence of high
> > levels of RF. Especially in recent years, someone could put their phone
> > down on top of your unit and subject it to huge fields. We test in fields
> > of hundreds of volts per meter and have to work.
> >
> > My products also have to work with 4V of ripple on the power input with
> no
> > effect.
> >
> > Bose knows how to design for these environments. I was on regulatory
> > committees with people from Bose and they were very sharp. So, if they
> are
> > not obligated to fix this, I was just suggesting that they still might if
> > contacted and that they have the knowledge to fix it.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Mark
> > W7MLG
> >
> > On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 8:06 PM Phil Kane  wrote:
> >
> > > On 5/9/2020 7:08 PM, Nr4c wrote:
> > >
> > > > Beg to differ. Part 15 devices have no legal protection from
> > > interference. You use at your own risk.
> > >
> > > That's what I said.  We deal with that professionally.
> > >
> > > >> (2) this device must accept any interference received, including
> > > >>> interference that may cause undesired operation.--
> > >
> > > Philip M. Kane  Esq / P.E. -  K2ASP
> > > VP - General Counsel & Executive Engineer
> > > CSI Telecommunications, Inc. - Consulting Engineers
> > > San Francisco, CA - Beaverton, OR
> > > __
> > > Elecraft mailing list
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> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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> > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > > Message delivered to marklgoldb...@gmail.com
> > >
> 

Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Dave Sublette]

The answer to your question  seems obvious to me.  I am not a lawyer.  Your
equipment had to operate too much more stringent requirements because human
life is at stake.  The part 15 "must accept" clause says that if you are
being interfered with on your Part 15 device, is it not legal grounds to
award damages in a court case.  It won't keep someone from from filing a
suit.  But without that clause we hams might be hauled into court by every
one who is interfered with.  We have been, but Part 15 has kept the
practice from proliferating.  Devices sold under part 15 are not used in
situations where human life is at stake.  Well they probably are, but are
not designed specifically to operate that way as are aircraft radio and
navigation systems.

In addition, the "must accept" clause releases hams from the legal and
financial obligations to correct the problem.  I should think that it also
releases the manufacturer from that also.

I'm not a lawyer.  It's just my take on it.

73,

Dave, K4TO



On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 11:38 PM Mark Goldberg 
wrote:

> I do want to understand what "must accept" means. Why did the FCC put #2 in
> there?
>
> I'm from the avionics industry. We have to not produce unwanted RF
> interference and we have to operate correctly in the presence of high
> levels of RF. Especially in recent years, someone could put their phone
> down on top of your unit and subject it to huge fields. We test in fields
> of hundreds of volts per meter and have to work.
>
> My products also have to work with 4V of ripple on the power input with no
> effect.
>
> Bose knows how to design for these environments. I was on regulatory
> committees with people from Bose and they were very sharp. So, if they are
> not obligated to fix this, I was just suggesting that they still might if
> contacted and that they have the knowledge to fix it.
>
> 73,
>
> Mark
> W7MLG
>
> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 8:06 PM Phil Kane  wrote:
>
> > On 5/9/2020 7:08 PM, Nr4c wrote:
> >
> > > Beg to differ. Part 15 devices have no legal protection from
> > interference. You use at your own risk.
> >
> > That's what I said.  We deal with that professionally.
> >
> > >> (2) this device must accept any interference received, including
> > >>> interference that may cause undesired operation.--
> >
> > Philip M. Kane  Esq / P.E. -  K2ASP
> > VP - General Counsel & Executive Engineer
> > CSI Telecommunications, Inc. - Consulting Engineers
> > San Francisco, CA - Beaverton, OR
> > __
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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> >
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> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to marklgoldb...@gmail.com
> >
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Mark Goldberg]

I do want to understand what "must accept" means. Why did the FCC put #2 in
there?

I'm from the avionics industry. We have to not produce unwanted RF
interference and we have to operate correctly in the presence of high
levels of RF. Especially in recent years, someone could put their phone
down on top of your unit and subject it to huge fields. We test in fields
of hundreds of volts per meter and have to work.

My products also have to work with 4V of ripple on the power input with no
effect.

Bose knows how to design for these environments. I was on regulatory
committees with people from Bose and they were very sharp. So, if they are
not obligated to fix this, I was just suggesting that they still might if
contacted and that they have the knowledge to fix it.

73,

Mark
W7MLG

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 8:06 PM Phil Kane  wrote:

> On 5/9/2020 7:08 PM, Nr4c wrote:
>
> > Beg to differ. Part 15 devices have no legal protection from
> interference. You use at your own risk.
>
> That's what I said.  We deal with that professionally.
>
> >> (2) this device must accept any interference received, including
> >>> interference that may cause undesired operation.--
>
> Philip M. Kane  Esq / P.E. -  K2ASP
> VP - General Counsel & Executive Engineer
> CSI Telecommunications, Inc. - Consulting Engineers
> San Francisco, CA - Beaverton, OR
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Jim Brown]

On 5/9/2020 7:08 PM, Nr4c wrote:

Beg to differ.


Ummm, K2ASP is a retired FCC inspector.  Now works as a consultant to 
those who need help with communications systems issues. I think we can 
take anything he says to the bank. :)


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Phil Kane]

On 5/9/2020 7:08 PM, Nr4c wrote:

> Beg to differ. Part 15 devices have no legal protection from
interference. You use at your own risk.

That's what I said.  We deal with that professionally.

>> (2) this device must accept any interference received, including
>>> interference that may cause undesired operation.--

Philip M. Kane  Esq / P.E. -  K2ASP
VP - General Counsel & Executive Engineer
CSI Telecommunications, Inc. - Consulting Engineers
San Francisco, CA - Beaverton, OR
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Nr4c]

Beg to differ. Part 15 devices have no legal protection from interference. You 
use at your own risk. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On May 9, 2020, at 9:49 PM, Phil Kane  wrote:
> 
> On 5/9/2020 1:32 PM, Mark Goldberg wrote:
> 
>> Have you contacted Bose? They are FCC part 15 and even say this in the user
>> manual:
> 
>> (2) this device must accept any interference received, including
>> interference that may cause undesired operation.
> Part 15 deals with *generating* unwanted RF (i.e. causing interference).
> It has nothing to do with acceptability to external RF causing
> malfunction.  The excerpt that you posted is very clear on that point.
> 
> 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
> Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402
> 
> From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
> Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Phil Kane]

On 5/9/2020 1:32 PM, Mark Goldberg wrote:

> Have you contacted Bose? They are FCC part 15 and even say this in the user
> manual:

> (2) this device must accept any interference received, including
> interference that may cause undesired operation.
Part 15 deals with *generating* unwanted RF (i.e. causing interference).
 It has nothing to do with acceptability to external RF causing
malfunction.  The excerpt that you posted is very clear on that point.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

>From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Macy monkeys]

If the manual says the headphone must accept any interference, I doubt Bose 
will do much.

John K7FD

> On May 9, 2020, at 1:32 PM, Mark Goldberg  wrote:
> 
> Have you contacted Bose? They are FCC part 15 and even say this in the user
> manual:
> 
> This device complies with part 15 of the FCC Rules and with Industry Canada
> license-exempt RSS standard(s).
> Operation is subject to the following two conditions: (1) This device may
> not cause harmful interference, and (2) this
> device must accept any interference received, including interference that
> may cause undesired operation.
> 
> I think it is incumbent upon them to make them work.
> 
> I know they have the capability. Their aircraft headsets have to operate in
> very similar conditions. Aircraft have HF radios.
> 
> I operate a station in our small RV with a KPA500 and a collection of other
> electronics and bluetooth devices, with good bonding and ferrites in
> hopefully the right places. Everything works with no issues.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Mark
> W7MLG
> 
>> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 11:47 AM John Reilly  wrote:
>> 
>> FWIW, I bought a pair of the Bose 700 headphones, and I'm NOT happy.
>> They are very susceptible to RF, especially on 40 and 80m. They make
>> their system "bong" sound when I transmit. I have tried several toroid
>> chokes, even one close to the ear piece -- no help. On 40m, I have the
>> problem at power levels ranging from 5 to 1200 w. Too bad, they fit and
>> sound great.
>>   - John, N0TA
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Mark Goldberg]

Have you contacted Bose? They are FCC part 15 and even say this in the user
manual:

This device complies with part 15 of the FCC Rules and with Industry Canada
license-exempt RSS standard(s).
­Operation is subject to the following two conditions: (1) This device may
not cause harmful interference, and (2) this
device must accept any interference received, including interference that
may cause undesired operation.

I think it is incumbent upon them to make them work.

I know they have the capability. Their aircraft headsets have to operate in
very similar conditions. Aircraft have HF radios.

I operate a station in our small RV with a KPA500 and a collection of other
electronics and bluetooth devices, with good bonding and ferrites in
hopefully the right places. Everything works with no issues.

73,

Mark
W7MLG

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 11:47 AM John Reilly  wrote:

> FWIW, I bought a pair of the Bose 700 headphones, and I'm NOT happy.
> They are very susceptible to RF, especially on 40 and 80m. They make
> their system "bong" sound when I transmit. I have tried several toroid
> chokes, even one close to the ear piece -- no help. On 40m, I have the
> problem at power levels ranging from 5 to 1200 w. Too bad, they fit and
> sound great.
>- John, N0TA
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Macy monkeys]

That's a bummer. The wired Bose QC25’s show no signs of RFI while running my 
KPA500. I even bought a spare pair of QC25’s when the price was right. I do go 
through a few batteries...maybe two a month. The noise cancelling sure wipes 
out all ambient room noise, amplifier fan noise, TV, and conversations from an 
adjoining room. Very happy...

John K7FD, locked down on the Oregon coast, wondering...waiting...

> On May 9, 2020, at 11:46 AM, John Reilly  wrote:
> 
> FWIW, I bought a pair of the Bose 700 headphones, and I'm NOT happy. They are 
> very susceptible to RF, especially on 40 and 80m. They make their system 
> "bong" sound when I transmit. I have tried several toroid chokes, even one 
> close to the ear piece -- no help. On 40m, I have the problem at power levels 
> ranging from 5 to 1200 w. Too bad, they fit and sound great.
>   - John, N0TA
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[John Reilly]

FWIW, I bought a pair of the Bose 700 headphones, and I'm NOT happy. 
They are very susceptible to RF, especially on 40 and 80m. They make 
their system "bong" sound when I transmit. I have tried several toroid 
chokes, even one close to the ear piece -- no help. On 40m, I have the 
problem at power levels ranging from 5 to 1200 w. Too bad, they fit and 
sound great.

  - John, N0TA
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[rich hurd WC3T]

Adding to the small but growing chorus of over-ear 'cans.'I have an
MDR-V6 and a 7506 -- and want for nothing.  On ear is damned uncomfortable
and I shudder when i think of putting something in my ears.   My son with
his ear buds - he can keep 'em.   I can wear the V6 all day with no
discomfort.

Postscript:  i just ordered velour cushions for the two Sony cans.   Can't
wait.  That will be Nirvana.

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 10:53 AM  wrote:

> Clay,
>
> Have to agree about OTE headphones. I am hearing impaired and have not
> found a "truly compatible" over the hearing aid solution. The best one for
> me so far is the Sennheiser S1 avionic headset (no longer available). I
> happened to have one from my flying days. It has the best TX and RX noise
> cancelling function I have found. It is a shame that Sennheiser did not
> continue them. I have not played with the Bose or LightSpeed sets since my
> early experience with both being too tight.
>
> I have used the Sennheiser PXC 550 II set with the Kenwood D74A BT feature
> and gotten good voice reports. They are also OTE and good for those of us
> with larger hat sizes, but did not work acceptably without taking off the
> hearing aids. They do work without a lot of BT lag so might be acceptable
> for CW.
>
> I never used either with my KX3.
>
> Jack - KD4IZ
>
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> On Behalf Of Clay Autery
> Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 10:11
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Headphones
>
> My Sennheiser HD6XX are neither bulky or heavy, but over-the-ear from
> larger drivers generally produces better results all around.
> I have A/B tested over-the-ear, on-ear, and in-ear...
>
> On-ear, for me is the worst of all worlds.  I use my in-ear wireless BLE
> stereo set when I am in a noisy environment or in the field.
> But there is simply no substitute for a proper set of OTE phones when you
> need to dig an audio signal out of a pack or out of the mud.
>
> My 2/100ths of a paper debt instrument posing as "money"
>
> 73,
>
> __
> Clay Autery, KY5G
> (318) 518-1389
>
> On 05/08/20 07:35, Barry wrote:
> > IUnless you're in a multi-op or noisy environment, why go with bulky,
> > heavy, over the ear models?
> >
> > I've used a Sony MDR-W08 for years.  Appears that model is
> > discontinued, but there are similar ones.  It weighs 1 oz(!) and cost
> > about $20 when I got them.  Do a search and you'll find similar ones.
> >
> > Barry W2UP
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
> > __
> > Elecraft mailing list
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> > k...@montac.com
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>


-- 
72,
Rich Hurd / WC3T / DMR: 3142737
Northampton County RACES, EPA-ARRL Public Information Officer for Scouting
Latitude: 40.761621 Longitude: -75.288988  (40°45.68' N 75°17.33' W) Grid:
*FN20is*
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[kd4iz]

Clay,

Have to agree about OTE headphones. I am hearing impaired and have not found a 
"truly compatible" over the hearing aid solution. The best one for me so far is 
the Sennheiser S1 avionic headset (no longer available). I happened to have one 
from my flying days. It has the best TX and RX noise cancelling function I have 
found. It is a shame that Sennheiser did not continue them. I have not played 
with the Bose or LightSpeed sets since my early experience with both being too 
tight.

I have used the Sennheiser PXC 550 II set with the Kenwood D74A BT feature and 
gotten good voice reports. They are also OTE and good for those of us with 
larger hat sizes, but did not work acceptably without taking off the hearing 
aids. They do work without a lot of BT lag so might be acceptable for CW.  

I never used either with my KX3.

Jack - KD4IZ

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Clay Autery
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 10:11
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

My Sennheiser HD6XX are neither bulky or heavy, but over-the-ear from larger 
drivers generally produces better results all around.
I have A/B tested over-the-ear, on-ear, and in-ear...

On-ear, for me is the worst of all worlds.  I use my in-ear wireless BLE stereo 
set when I am in a noisy environment or in the field.
But there is simply no substitute for a proper set of OTE phones when you need 
to dig an audio signal out of a pack or out of the mud.

My 2/100ths of a paper debt instrument posing as "money"

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
(318) 518-1389

On 05/08/20 07:35, Barry wrote:
> IUnless you're in a multi-op or noisy environment, why go with bulky, 
> heavy, over the ear models?
>
> I've used a Sony MDR-W08 for years.  Appears that model is 
> discontinued, but there are similar ones.  It weighs 1 oz(!) and cost 
> about $20 when I got them.  Do a search and you'll find similar ones.
>
> Barry W2UP
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
> __
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> k...@montac.com
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Clay Autery]

My Sennheiser HD6XX are neither bulky or heavy, but over-the-ear from 
larger drivers generally produces better results all around.

I have A/B tested over-the-ear, on-ear, and in-ear...

On-ear, for me is the worst of all worlds.  I use my in-ear wireless BLE 
stereo set when I am in a noisy environment or in the field.
But there is simply no substitute for a proper set of OTE phones when 
you need to dig an audio signal out of a pack or out of the mud.


My 2/100ths of a paper debt instrument posing as "money"

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
(318) 518-1389

On 05/08/20 07:35, Barry wrote:

IUnless you're in a multi-op or noisy environment, why go with bulky, heavy,
over the ear models?

I've used a Sony MDR-W08 for years.  Appears that model is discontinued, but
there are similar ones.  It weighs 1 oz(!) and cost about $20 when I got
them.  Do a search and you'll find similar ones.

Barry W2UP



--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Barry]

IUnless you're in a multi-op or noisy environment, why go with bulky, heavy,
over the ear models?

I've used a Sony MDR-W08 for years.  Appears that model is discontinued, but
there are similar ones.  It weighs 1 oz(!) and cost about $20 when I got
them.  Do a search and you'll find similar ones.

Barry W2UP



--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Phil Kane]

On 5/7/2020 12:17 PM, Erik B wrote:

> I am so far resisting hearing aids, as my R side hearing is fine. 

I have been using aids for over a decade.  The L side needs one sort of
equalization, the R side does not.  Any competent audiologist can adjust
an aid to be flat.  Several times I have gone without the R side aid,
and I could not tell the difference.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

>From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Jim Brown]

On 5/7/2020 12:17 PM, Erik B wrote:

  I am
so far resisting hearing aids, as my R side hearing is fine.


If you want to consider aids, go to Costco. They sell very good stuff at 
half the price of audiologists, they have first rate test equipment to 
check hearing and to adjust aids to fit individual needs. My XYL has 
aids from them; I sat in while they counseled her and adjusted her aids.


In my professional life designing large sound systems, I had to learn a 
lot about the mechanisms of our hearing system and hearing loss, and I 
regularly used test equipment to adjust large sound systems. It is from 
this background that I can attest to the quality of Costco's 
performance. I was first pointed to them by W6OAT, who has worn aids for 
many years. I know other hams who have bought aids from them.


When you talk to them, make sure they understand that you work with 
earphones -- that will influence which of several types of aids will 
work best for you.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Ken Widelitz]

Jim and Eric - Great suggestions!

If the feature is added to the K3/K4 to adjust EQ by ear, the AF should be
able to be adjusted by ear also. Maybe a menu item that lets you select
which ear gets some additional DBs.

Using the Heil PRAS in my left ear only, I adjust the volume until my
preferred CW tone frequency is centered in my head. I have always been very
careful about headphone volume. My hearing loss was caused by a virus, so
my being careful didn't save my hearing. Now, I'm sure my left ear volume
is at a dangerously high level, but I'm already mostly deaf in my left ear,
so I'm not concerned about it.

73, Ken, K6LA / VY2TT



On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 12:19 PM Erik B  wrote:

> I second the suggestion that RX EQ be separate for left and right sides.
> Almost a year ago I was diagnosed with a severe hearing problem on the L
> ear
> only, where some high freqencies are exaggerated but the normal speech
> frequency range is severely attenuated. When people speak into my L ear, I
> typically can't understand what they say, even if the volume is fine. I am
> so far resisting hearing aids, as my R side hearing is fine. I am thinking
> about ditching my SO2R setup, at least for voice purposes. Now, if only the
> new separate L and R EQ would become available also for the K3.
> 73,
> Erik K7TV
>
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> On
> Behalf Of Jim Brown
> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2020 10:51 AM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Headphones
>
> On 5/7/2020 10:38 AM, Ken Widelitz wrote:
> > I
> > built a breakout box so it only is used on my mostly deaf left ear.
> > The PRAS works so well that I actually forget I have a hearing deficit
> > while doing SO2R. I have a hearing aid for my left ear, but it doesn't
> > improve intelligibility at all. The PARS unit improves intelligibility
> > amazingly well.
>
> Very interesting, Ken. Differing hearing loss between ears is quite common,
> which suggests that it could be useful for the new K4 to incorporate the
> ability to EQ left and right headphone channels separately! I've often
> recommended to ham friends with hearing loss to use the K3/K3S/KX2/KX3 to
> compensate by massive cut of low audio frequencies and massive boost the
> the
> top bands, and guys have told me that it helps a lot.
>
> Wayne, are you listening?
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Erik B]

I second the suggestion that RX EQ be separate for left and right sides.
Almost a year ago I was diagnosed with a severe hearing problem on the L ear
only, where some high freqencies are exaggerated but the normal speech
frequency range is severely attenuated. When people speak into my L ear, I
typically can't understand what they say, even if the volume is fine. I am
so far resisting hearing aids, as my R side hearing is fine. I am thinking
about ditching my SO2R setup, at least for voice purposes. Now, if only the
new separate L and R EQ would become available also for the K3.
73,
Erik K7TV

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On
Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2020 10:51 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

On 5/7/2020 10:38 AM, Ken Widelitz wrote:
> I
> built a breakout box so it only is used on my mostly deaf left ear. 
> The PRAS works so well that I actually forget I have a hearing deficit 
> while doing SO2R. I have a hearing aid for my left ear, but it doesn't 
> improve intelligibility at all. The PARS unit improves intelligibility 
> amazingly well.

Very interesting, Ken. Differing hearing loss between ears is quite common,
which suggests that it could be useful for the new K4 to incorporate the
ability to EQ left and right headphone channels separately! I've often
recommended to ham friends with hearing loss to use the K3/K3S/KX2/KX3 to
compensate by massive cut of low audio frequencies and massive boost the the
top bands, and guys have told me that it helps a lot.

Wayne, are you listening?

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Steve Lawrence via Elecraft]

Comfort is just one consideration. If you use Bose QC35s with Bluetooth there 
is a delay that increases over time. No problem listening to music. But if you 
watch TV the delay becomes intolerable. 

For BT use to watch TV you want a set using the Qualcomm APTX LL (low latency) 
codec.

The Bose 700s don't use the APTX codec yet they don't have the delay of the 
35s. So there's likely more than one LL codec.

Delay is not an issue when using a cord vs BT.

73 - Steve WB6RSE



On May 7, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Ken Widelitz  wrote:

I recently received the Bose Quiet Comfort II headphones as a gift.

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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Jim Brown]

On 5/7/2020 10:38 AM, Ken Widelitz wrote:

I
built a breakout box so it only is used on my mostly deaf left ear. The
PRAS works so well that I actually forget I have a hearing deficit while
doing SO2R. I have a hearing aid for my left ear, but it doesn't improve
intelligibility at all. The PARS unit improves intelligibility amazingly
well.


Very interesting, Ken. Differing hearing loss between ears is quite 
common, which suggests that it could be useful for the new K4 to 
incorporate the ability to EQ left and right headphone channels 
separately! I've often recommended to ham friends with hearing loss to 
use the K3/K3S/KX2/KX3 to compensate by massive cut of low audio 
frequencies and massive boost the the top bands, and guys have told me 
that it helps a lot.


Wayne, are you listening?

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Macy monkeys]

100% Bose QC25 here. Lightweight. Over the ear. Stay cool. Noise cancelling. 
Love 'em!

John K7FD

> On May 7, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Ken Widelitz  wrote:
> 
> I recently received the Bose Quiet Comfort II headphones as a gift. I used
> them on my next flights to PEI for airplane noise reduction and it works
> well for that. They were so comfortable that I used them in the contest
> when I arrived in PEI. I now prefer the Bose headphones over earbuds which
> I have used for 30 years because I hated over the ear cans as they hurt my
> head and made my ears hot (and I tried a number of headphones.) I don't
> turn on the noise reduction in PEI, but I do at home as the shack is
> noisier at the home QTH. You can keep them plugged in to a USB port, so the
> batteries don't run out. I have always used a boom mic so the headphones
> are not an issue for SSB.
> 
> As long as I am touting products, I have the Heil PRAS in both my shacks. I
> built a breakout box so it only is used on my mostly deaf left ear. The
> PRAS works so well that I actually forget I have a hearing deficit while
> doing SO2R. I have a hearing aid for my left ear, but it doesn't improve
> intelligibility at all. The PARS unit improves intelligibility amazingly
> well.
> 
> 73, Ken, K6LA / VY2TT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 10:19 AM Clark Macaulay 
> wrote:
> 
>> Another vote for MDR-7506.  I'm a 99 44/100 CW ope and don't need the
>> microphone.  The Sony are light, cover my entire ear, and replacement OEM
>> pads relatively available.  Nice carrying case comes with it (for those
>> that travel).
>> 
>> Clark WU4B
>> 
>>> On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 10:26 PM  wrote:
>>> 
>>> If you do not need a microphone, the Sony MDR-7506 that K9YC has
>> mentioned
>>> numerous times on this list is just awesome. These are high quality
>>> headphones that sound great and are super comfortable. I use mine for all
>>> CW
>>> and RTTY contests plus occasionally for other things around the house.
>>> 
>>> John KK9A
>>> 
>>> Mike Streeter wm5dx wrote:
>>> 
>>> I bought the Yamaha phones a couple of years ago. They were fine for a
>>> while
>>> but the microphone was very loose and kept getting in the way and then
>> the
>>> foam earpiece covering all fell apart. So, when I thought about it, it
>>> occurred to me that the younger generation that does a lot of gaming for
>>> hours on end must need something that worked well and are comfortable for
>>> long periods. I did a little research and then bought a "Pro Gamer"
>> headset
>>> HyperX Cloud. Not as cheap as the Yamaha but not as pricey as Heil. (I've
>>> had Heil headsets over the years and never been really happy with them).
>>> The real clincher was that the HyperX has a detachable microphone so now
>> I
>>> have something to stir my tea with. (The only use I have for it).
>>> I am very pleased, they seem to perform well with the K3 and I find them
>>> durable and comfortable. But, as someone else said, every person is
>>> different.
>>> 73, Mike, WM5DX.
>>> 
>>> __
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>> 
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to clark.macau...@gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 73,
>> 
>> Clark, WU4B
>> Little Pistol With Wires
>> QRPARCI #10815
>> SKCC #3892
>> NAQCC #5055
>> CWOPS #1869
>> Collins Collectors #AC90-12432
>> Southeastern DX Club 
>> North Georgia QRP Club 
>> 
>> 
>> *"It is vain to do with more what can be done with less."*
>> *Attributed to *William of Occam (1288 AD - 1348 AD)
>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Ken Widelitz]

I recently received the Bose Quiet Comfort II headphones as a gift. I used
them on my next flights to PEI for airplane noise reduction and it works
well for that. They were so comfortable that I used them in the contest
when I arrived in PEI. I now prefer the Bose headphones over earbuds which
I have used for 30 years because I hated over the ear cans as they hurt my
head and made my ears hot (and I tried a number of headphones.) I don't
turn on the noise reduction in PEI, but I do at home as the shack is
noisier at the home QTH. You can keep them plugged in to a USB port, so the
batteries don't run out. I have always used a boom mic so the headphones
are not an issue for SSB.

As long as I am touting products, I have the Heil PRAS in both my shacks. I
built a breakout box so it only is used on my mostly deaf left ear. The
PRAS works so well that I actually forget I have a hearing deficit while
doing SO2R. I have a hearing aid for my left ear, but it doesn't improve
intelligibility at all. The PARS unit improves intelligibility amazingly
well.

73, Ken, K6LA / VY2TT





On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 10:19 AM Clark Macaulay 
wrote:

> Another vote for MDR-7506.  I'm a 99 44/100 CW ope and don't need the
> microphone.  The Sony are light, cover my entire ear, and replacement OEM
> pads relatively available.  Nice carrying case comes with it (for those
> that travel).
>
> Clark WU4B
>
> On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 10:26 PM  wrote:
>
> > If you do not need a microphone, the Sony MDR-7506 that K9YC has
> mentioned
> > numerous times on this list is just awesome. These are high quality
> > headphones that sound great and are super comfortable. I use mine for all
> > CW
> > and RTTY contests plus occasionally for other things around the house.
> >
> > John KK9A
> >
> > Mike Streeter wm5dx wrote:
> >
> > I bought the Yamaha phones a couple of years ago. They were fine for a
> > while
> > but the microphone was very loose and kept getting in the way and then
> the
> > foam earpiece covering all fell apart. So, when I thought about it, it
> > occurred to me that the younger generation that does a lot of gaming for
> > hours on end must need something that worked well and are comfortable for
> > long periods. I did a little research and then bought a "Pro Gamer"
> headset
> > HyperX Cloud. Not as cheap as the Yamaha but not as pricey as Heil. (I've
> > had Heil headsets over the years and never been really happy with them).
> > The real clincher was that the HyperX has a detachable microphone so now
> I
> > have something to stir my tea with. (The only use I have for it).
> > I am very pleased, they seem to perform well with the K3 and I find them
> > durable and comfortable. But, as someone else said, every person is
> > different.
> > 73, Mike, WM5DX.
> >
> > __
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to clark.macau...@gmail.com
> >
>
>
> --
> 73,
>
> Clark, WU4B
> Little Pistol With Wires
> QRPARCI #10815
> SKCC #3892
> NAQCC #5055
> CWOPS #1869
> Collins Collectors #AC90-12432
> Southeastern DX Club 
> North Georgia QRP Club 
>
>
> *"It is vain to do with more what can be done with less."*
> *Attributed to *William of Occam (1288 AD - 1348 AD)
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Clark Macaulay]

Another vote for MDR-7506.  I'm a 99 44/100 CW ope and don't need the
microphone.  The Sony are light, cover my entire ear, and replacement OEM
pads relatively available.  Nice carrying case comes with it (for those
that travel).

Clark WU4B

On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 10:26 PM  wrote:

> If you do not need a microphone, the Sony MDR-7506 that K9YC has mentioned
> numerous times on this list is just awesome. These are high quality
> headphones that sound great and are super comfortable. I use mine for all
> CW
> and RTTY contests plus occasionally for other things around the house.
>
> John KK9A
>
> Mike Streeter wm5dx wrote:
>
> I bought the Yamaha phones a couple of years ago. They were fine for a
> while
> but the microphone was very loose and kept getting in the way and then the
> foam earpiece covering all fell apart. So, when I thought about it, it
> occurred to me that the younger generation that does a lot of gaming for
> hours on end must need something that worked well and are comfortable for
> long periods. I did a little research and then bought a "Pro Gamer" headset
> HyperX Cloud. Not as cheap as the Yamaha but not as pricey as Heil. (I've
> had Heil headsets over the years and never been really happy with them).
> The real clincher was that the HyperX has a detachable microphone so now I
> have something to stir my tea with. (The only use I have for it).
> I am very pleased, they seem to perform well with the K3 and I find them
> durable and comfortable. But, as someone else said, every person is
> different.
> 73, Mike, WM5DX.
>
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Message delivered to clark.macau...@gmail.com
>


-- 
73,

Clark, WU4B
Little Pistol With Wires
QRPARCI #10815
SKCC #3892
NAQCC #5055
CWOPS #1869
Collins Collectors #AC90-12432
Southeastern DX Club 
North Georgia QRP Club 


*"It is vain to do with more what can be done with less."*
*Attributed to *William of Occam (1288 AD - 1348 AD)
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[rich hurd WC3T]

The Sony MDR-V6's - the digital version of the 7506 - can be seen in movies
quite a bit...   "Whistler"  (David Strathairn) wears them in the movie
"Sneakers" and "Seaman Jones" (Courtney Vance) wears them in "The Hunt for
Red October."I've also seen the musicians in Postmodern Jukebox wearing
them in some of the YT videos.   :)

On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 10:25 PM  wrote:

> If you do not need a microphone, the Sony MDR-7506 that K9YC has mentioned
> numerous times on this list is just awesome. These are high quality
> headphones that sound great and are super comfortable. I use mine for all
> CW
> and RTTY contests plus occasionally for other things around the house.
>
> John KK9A
>
> Mike Streeter wm5dx wrote:
>
> I bought the Yamaha phones a couple of years ago. They were fine for a
> while
> but the microphone was very loose and kept getting in the way and then the
> foam earpiece covering all fell apart. So, when I thought about it, it
> occurred to me that the younger generation that does a lot of gaming for
> hours on end must need something that worked well and are comfortable for
> long periods. I did a little research and then bought a "Pro Gamer" headset
> HyperX Cloud. Not as cheap as the Yamaha but not as pricey as Heil. (I've
> had Heil headsets over the years and never been really happy with them).
> The real clincher was that the HyperX has a detachable microphone so now I
> have something to stir my tea with. (The only use I have for it).
> I am very pleased, they seem to perform well with the K3 and I find them
> durable and comfortable. But, as someone else said, every person is
> different.
> 73, Mike, WM5DX.
>
> __
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>


-- 
72,
Rich Hurd / WC3T / DMR: 3142737
Northampton County RACES, EPA-ARRL Public Information Officer for Scouting
Latitude: 40.761621 Longitude: -75.288988  (40°45.68' N 75°17.33' W) Grid:
*FN20is*
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Clay Autery]

I've been using a set of Sennheiser HD598SE phones for a couple of years 
now and love them, but I am in receipt TODAY
of a set of Sennheiser HD6XX phones from DROP (formerly Mass Drop).  
This model is a cooperative venture between Drop and Sennheiser
to provide near "flagship" performance, quality and comfort at a 
fraction of the cost.


I have used these before, and they are awesome, which is why I am 
willing to let go of my beloved HD598SE set. (Darling bride will use 
them on her

new i9-based 16 core desktop.

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
(318) 518-1389

On 05/06/20 21:25, j...@kk9a.com wrote:

If you do not need a microphone, the Sony MDR-7506 that K9YC has mentioned
numerous times on this list is just awesome. These are high quality
headphones that sound great and are super comfortable. I use mine for all CW
and RTTY contests plus occasionally for other things around the house.

John KK9A

Mike Streeter wm5dx wrote:

I bought the Yamaha phones a couple of years ago. They were fine for a while
but the microphone was very loose and kept getting in the way and then the
foam earpiece covering all fell apart. So, when I thought about it, it
occurred to me that the younger generation that does a lot of gaming for
hours on end must need something that worked well and are comfortable for
long periods. I did a little research and then bought a "Pro Gamer" headset
HyperX Cloud. Not as cheap as the Yamaha but not as pricey as Heil. (I've
had Heil headsets over the years and never been really happy with them).
The real clincher was that the HyperX has a detachable microphone so now I
have something to stir my tea with. (The only use I have for it).
I am very pleased, they seem to perform well with the K3 and I find them
durable and comfortable. But, as someone else said, every person is
different.
73, Mike, WM5DX.

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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Gary K9GS]

I'll second the Sony for CW and non-voice modes.For SSB I love the Irad 
W1https://www.vibroplex.com/contents/en-us/d9164.htmlThey are fantastic and 
very comfortable. All that said,  headphone choice is a very personal one.  In 
particular the fit and comfort.I'm kind of a headphone/headset junkie.I also 
like the Yamaha and Koss a lot.73,Gary K9GS
 Original message From: j...@kk9a.com Date: 5/6/20  9:25 PM  
(GMT-06:00) To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Headphones If 
you do not need a microphone, the Sony MDR-7506 that K9YC has mentionednumerous 
times on this list is just awesome. These are high qualityheadphones that sound 
great and are super comfortable. I use mine for all CWand RTTY contests plus 
occasionally for other things around the house.John KK9AMike Streeter wm5dx 
wrote:I bought the Yamaha phones a couple of years ago. They were fine for a 
whilebut the microphone was very loose and kept getting in the way and then 
thefoam earpiece covering all fell apart. So, when I thought about it, 
itoccurred to me that the younger generation that does a lot of gaming forhours 
on end must need something that worked well and are comfortable forlong 
periods. I did a little research and then bought a "Pro Gamer" headsetHyperX 
Cloud. Not as cheap as the Yamaha but not as pricey as Heil. (I'vehad Heil 
headsets over the years and never been really happy with them).The real 
clincher was that the HyperX has a detachable microphone so now Ihave something 
to stir my tea with. (The only use I have for it).I am very pleased, they seem 
to perform well with the K3 and I find themdurable and comfortable. But, as 
someone else said, every person isdifferent.73, Mike, 
WM5DX.__Elecraft 
mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp: 
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hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: 
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[john]

If you do not need a microphone, the Sony MDR-7506 that K9YC has mentioned
numerous times on this list is just awesome. These are high quality
headphones that sound great and are super comfortable. I use mine for all CW
and RTTY contests plus occasionally for other things around the house.

John KK9A

Mike Streeter wm5dx wrote:

I bought the Yamaha phones a couple of years ago. They were fine for a while
but the microphone was very loose and kept getting in the way and then the
foam earpiece covering all fell apart. So, when I thought about it, it
occurred to me that the younger generation that does a lot of gaming for
hours on end must need something that worked well and are comfortable for
long periods. I did a little research and then bought a "Pro Gamer" headset
HyperX Cloud. Not as cheap as the Yamaha but not as pricey as Heil. (I've
had Heil headsets over the years and never been really happy with them).
The real clincher was that the HyperX has a detachable microphone so now I
have something to stir my tea with. (The only use I have for it).
I am very pleased, they seem to perform well with the K3 and I find them
durable and comfortable. But, as someone else said, every person is
different.
73, Mike, WM5DX.

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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[pkhjr via Elecraft]

I use the Yamaha CM500 from Amazon about $58 with my K3.  I bought the Koss
SB45 from Amazon about $23 shipped.  I think the Koss is every bit as good
as the Yamaha.  I haven't used the Koss on the K3 but expect it would
perform equally.  I use it on my Icom 7300 and get nothing but good reports. 
I get as good a reports with the Yamaha as I did with my Heil of which I've
had a couple.

73 Tex
ka5y



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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Dave Fugleberg]

I use an older Heil pro set with HC-5 element on my K3, with great results.
One nice thing on the K3 or K3S is that you can plug the two 3.5mm plugs
directly into the back of the rig- no adapters needed, and no cables
hanging out the front of the radio.
However, my advice to anyone is that the most important thing to look for
in a headset is COMFORT. The audio coming and going can be tailored to your
liking for nearly any mic and headset using the equalizer in the K3, but if
you can't comfortably wear it, even the most expensive headset is useless.

On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 8:50 AM Ron Manfredi  wrote:

I have used the Elite Pro with success.  The dynamic mic element


version, with bias turned OFF.





For an alternate suggestion, many use and like the (inexpensive) Yamaha


CM-500 / Koss SB-45 headset, with it's electret element.








Ron








On 1/14/2017 9:33 AM, Alex Dokic via Elecraft wrote:


> Hi, can anyone advise or recommend what Heil headphones work well with
the k3s many thanks . Alex M0 KVA


>


> Sent from my iPhone


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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Ron Manfredi]

I have used the Elite Pro with success.  The dynamic mic element 
version, with bias turned OFF.


For an alternate suggestion, many use and like the (inexpensive) Yamaha 
CM-500 / Koss SB-45 headset, with it's electret element.



Ron


On 1/14/2017 9:33 AM, Alex Dokic via Elecraft wrote:

Hi, can anyone advise or recommend what Heil headphones work well with the k3s 
many thanks . Alex M0 KVA

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones and Mic/Speaker connected to the Back of K3

[Don Wilhelm]

Larry,

There is only one mic jack in the back, so I am not sure how you plug 2 
microphones into one 3.5mm jack.
You can plug one into the front 8 pin Foster jack and the other into the 
rear jack - switch between them in the MIC SEL menu.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/5/2015 5:49 PM, Larry Snyder wrote:

If I connect my Pro-7 headset as well as the PR-781 Mic to the back of the
K3, how do I select which audio source I want to use with the K3?




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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones and extension cable - leave plugged in?

[Barry]

Thanks for the reply, guys.  I know the cables are cheap - I just bought
replacements on Ebay $2.39 for 2, including shipping!  Just a pain,
especially when it fails during a contest, like this one did during the IARU
last week.

Barry W2UP

P.S. Sorry for forgetting to ID in my earlier post  :-)



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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones and extension cable - leave plugged in?

[Bill Blomgren (kk4qdz) via Elecraft]

In the broadcast stations I worked at over the year, the audio patch panels had 
a lot of activity.. but there were basic ground rules to make sure something 
'bad' didn't happen in the middle of a live show..

1) you plug and unplug the connection 2-3 times before leaving the cable 
hanging.  (Periodically they got cleaned and lubed, but the connections will 
oxydize over time

2) you always test the connection with the studio so that you don't have a 
surprise.

With video cables, it was not as common to have issues, because there was 
always a plug in the connections for the 'normal' feed. (Video didn't use the 
contacts in the patch bay to provide the 'normal' connections.

There were some audio cables that were left in place for months in some cases.. 
Periodically they would get the same reseat action to make sure that there 
was no problem.  (Example: control room reconstruction.)

The sheer volume of contacts and cables in that environment makes replacement 
difficult to impossible (well, until the switch to HD, which meant everything 
had to change..)


KK4QDZ - Now with Extra Class Priv's, and a tiny KX3 to enjoy them!


On Sat, 7/19/14, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Headphones and extension cable - leave plugged in? 
 IMHO, the trouble of
 removing the plug and plugging it back in is not 
 worth the cost of a replacement cable.  I
 suspect it has worked fine for 
 several
 years.  If not, look for a better quality cable.
 
 In case the problem is caused by contact oxidation, removing the plug 
 and  re-inserting it several times should wipe the contact area
 and  restore it to normal operation.
 
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones and extension cable - leave plugged in?

[Jim Brown]

On 7/20/2014 6:50 AM, Bill Blomgren (kk4qdz) via Elecraft wrote:

In the broadcast stations I worked at over the year, the audio patch panels had 
a lot of activity


Do not confuse the high quality cables and plugs used in studio patch 
bays with the cheap crap we find in today's consumer market. Cables are 
flimsy, connectors are flimsy and have dissimilar metal issues. The only 
audio connectors I trust are those made by Switchcraft (USA) and Neutrik 
(EU). Years ago, Switchcraft marketed high quality DIN connectors made 
by Preh. I don't know if they still do.


73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones and extension cable - leave plugged in?

[Charlie, K3ICH]

One trick you can try is to cut one fuzzy end off a regular paper Q-Tip 
stem and apply a couple drops (or squirt) of DeOxit.  Then poke it into the 
1/8 socket and wiggle it around a bit.  Also, wipe the plug with a similar 
squirt on the fuzzy end.   It may well be that your cable isn't 
intermittent, but just very slightly oxidized.


73, Charlie k3ICH


- Original Message - 
From: Barry w...@comcast.net

To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2014 11:39 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] Headphones and extension cable - leave plugged in?


With my K3, I use the 3.5mm headphone jack on the back and toggle speaker 
on

/off with a macro programmed into PF1.

As my headphones have a relatively short cable, I use a 6 ft extension
cable.  Recently, the connection between the extension cable and the
headphones become intermittent, so I replaced the cable.

My question - is it better to unplug the headphones from the extension 
cable

when not in use, as maybe the spring tension inside the female end of the
cable is weakening.  Or, would repeatedly plugging/unplugging it cause 
more

fatigue in the connection over time?



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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones and extension cable - leave plugged in?

[Don Wilhelm]

IMHO, the trouble of removing the plug and plugging it back in is not 
worth the cost of a replacement cable.  I suspect it has worked fine for 
several years.  If not, look for a better quality cable.


In case the problem is caused by contact oxidation, removing the plug 
and re-inserting it several times should wipe the contact area and 
restore it to normal operation.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/19/2014 11:39 AM, Barry wrote:

With my K3, I use the 3.5mm headphone jack on the back and toggle speaker on
/off with a macro programmed into PF1.

As my headphones have a relatively short cable, I use a 6 ft extension
cable.  Recently, the connection between the extension cable and the
headphones become intermittent, so I replaced the cable.

My question - is it better to unplug the headphones from the extension cable
when not in use, as maybe the spring tension inside the female end of the
cable is weakening.  Or, would repeatedly plugging/unplugging it cause more
fatigue in the connection over time?




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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones and extension cable - leave plugged in?

[K8JHR]

On 7/19/2014 11:39 AM, Barry wrote:
 

My question - is it better to unplug the headphones from the extension cable
when not in use, ... Or, would repeatedly plugging/unplugging it cause more
fatigue in the connection over time?


---


The plugs/jacks are meant to be connected
all the time, so it is better to just leave
them connected.  I believe the usual culprit
is a break in the little wires inside the
cable, and not usually the spring clips that
comprise the jack.  They usually break close to
where the strain relieve ends.  One can usually
repair them by cutting the jack off the cable
(NO pun intended... I assure you) ;-)
and installing an inexpensive replacement for
around $1.  The same goes for the plugs on the
headphones, although the little cables on the
headphones are typically much smaller gauge than
that of the extension cable inner conductors, so
they are much harder to fix than extension cables.

I have no argument with the suggested de-oxit
treatment, but in my experience, the jack is
not the usual suspect (although sometimes the
jack contacts do break occasionally) and the
usual problem is a break down the line just
after beyond the strain relief, so close to
the jack we suspect it, instead of the cable.

Shoot, these little extension cables cost
about  $2 or less at www.allelectronics.com
so it behooves one  to have several extras
on hand and just toss them when they go flaky.
I cannibalize them for the good ends and use
them for other things when building projects.

I took extra cables, an extra headset, and
some odd connectors to my first time at the
big contest station along with my radio and
favorite headset - just in case I encountered
any problems with my gear... and that enabled
me to provide instant replacement of a
flaky cable and headset on the most important
40 meter station, saving them from having to
effect time-consuming repairs.  I felt pretty
stud because I was prepared and was able to
solve the problem in a flash.

So, buy extra cables and just swap them out
whenever they go bad, tossing the good ends
into your wish box for use in future building
projects.

Just MY take, anyway.

 K8JHR --






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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones $11.99

[Scott Manthe]

They're the Sennheiser HD201S: 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826106636Tpk=Sennheiser%20HD201SIsVirtualParent=1


I bought two when they were on sale for $12.99. They are incredible set 
of headphones for the price. I find the reproduction pretty accurate and 
not nearly as bassy as the description copy would have you believe.


73,
Scott, N9AA



On 4/8/13 6:25 AM, Fred Smith wrote:

Sorry should have put it in an attachment but it's there it's at newegg.com
48 hrs only

  

  

  


73,

Fred/N0AZZ

K3 Ser #'s 6730/5299--KX3 # 2573--K2/100--KAT100

P3/SVGA--KPA500--KAT500--W2

  



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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones $11.99

[Dave Lankshear]

Bummer!  They only ship to continental US, Puerto Rico and APO.

 

Ah well, I guess I have enough sets of headphones, anyway.

 

UK guys, any recommendations for small, amplified, mains-driven speakers for
the KX3, please?

 

73 all.  Dave, G3TJP

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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones $11.99

[w1pns]

Dave, 

I spotted these in the accessories section of my local T-Mobile store. Might 
they work? I picked up a couple on impulse, and they have great sound for such 
tiny enclosures. They about 2 inches tall and maybe 1.5 inches in diameter. 
They are battery powered, with a computer serving as the battery charger (via a 
USB port). Supposedly you get six to eight hours off of a charge. 

http://www.musemini.com/copy-of-muse-mini-portable-speaker-non-bluetooth/ 

If something like this looks useful, and they don't ship to the UK (and 
T-Mobile stores there don't carry them), let me know and I can snag one for 
your and send it along... 

With best regards, 

Pete 
W1PNS 

- Original Message -
From: Dave Lankshear d...@lanks.plus.com 
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Monday, April 8, 2013 12:19:13 PM 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Headphones $11.99 

Bummer! They only ship to continental US, Puerto Rico and APO. 



Ah well, I guess I have enough sets of headphones, anyway. 



UK guys, any recommendations for small, amplified, mains-driven speakers for 
the KX3, please? 



73 all. Dave, G3TJP 

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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones $11.99

[gosier]

Also these are a bit more in price but I've had 2 of theses for 3 years now 
and still working fine. BIG SOUND for a tiny speaker  just got a 
Cartman and love it 


http://www.getmobi.com/products.php?id=4


72

George , N2JNZ

-Original Message- 
From: w1...@comcast.net

Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 1:17 PM
To: Dave Lankshear
Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Headphones $11.99

Dave,

I spotted these in the accessories section of my local T-Mobile store. Might 
they work? I picked up a couple on impulse, and they have great sound for 
such tiny enclosures. They about 2 inches tall and maybe 1.5 inches in 
diameter. They are battery powered, with a computer serving as the battery 
charger (via a USB port). Supposedly you get six to eight hours off of a 
charge.


http://www.musemini.com/copy-of-muse-mini-portable-speaker-non-bluetooth/

If something like this looks useful, and they don't ship to the UK (and 
T-Mobile stores there don't carry them), let me know and I can snag one for 
your and send it along...


With best regards,

Pete
W1PNS

- Original Message -
From: Dave Lankshear d...@lanks.plus.com
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Monday, April 8, 2013 12:19:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Headphones $11.99

Bummer! They only ship to continental US, Puerto Rico and APO.



Ah well, I guess I have enough sets of headphones, anyway.



UK guys, any recommendations for small, amplified, mains-driven speakers for
the KX3, please?



73 all. Dave, G3TJP

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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones Speaker settings - no speaker OP

[Ron N5QQ]

Thanks but I left out one important fact for you, the LH radio speaker
works fine when SPKR+PH = YES, and I get both headphones and speaker
output. Part of the problem is I don't know how long it's been like
this, as I have had phones plugged in all the time, that is until this
weekend when I was rearranging the operating layouts.

On Monday, July 25, 2011, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote:
 Ron,

 Have you removed the top cover to check that the speaker connector is plugged 
 in.  If not, that is the first thing I would check.

 73,
 Don W3FPR

 On 7/25/2011 5:26 PM, Ron N5QQ wrote:

 I have two K3's on the operating desk that are very similar except in
 one way and I can not fine the setting or configuration to correct it.
 At present both the rigs are set SPKRS+PH = NO and SPKRS = 1. This
 gives me the internal speaker only when headphones are not plugged in,
 and then headphones only (no speaker) when they are plugged in.
 BUT the LH rig gives me headphones when they are plugged in (no
 speaker) and NOTHING at all when the headphone jack is unplugged. This
 is acting like I have external speakers plugged in, which I don't
 have. Am I missing something obvious?
 At this time there is no SO2R mic/phones/cw controller involved and
 the only other connection is the interface to my PC (with N1MM).
 Ron



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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones Speaker settings - no speaker OP

[Don Wilhelm]

Ron,

Have you removed the top cover to check that the speaker connector is 
plugged in.  If not, that is the first thing I would check.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/25/2011 5:26 PM, Ron N5QQ wrote:
 I have two K3's on the operating desk that are very similar except in
 one way and I can not fine the setting or configuration to correct it.
 At present both the rigs are set SPKRS+PH = NO and SPKRS = 1. This
 gives me the internal speaker only when headphones are not plugged in,
 and then headphones only (no speaker) when they are plugged in.
 BUT the LH rig gives me headphones when they are plugged in (no
 speaker) and NOTHING at all when the headphone jack is unplugged. This
 is acting like I have external speakers plugged in, which I don't
 have. Am I missing something obvious?
 At this time there is no SO2R mic/phones/cw controller involved and
 the only other connection is the interface to my PC (with N1MM).
 Ron

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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Ian White GM3SEK]

Don Wilhelm wrote:

I use the same type hearing aids.

Probably not exactly the same, because Phonak is a brand name (Swiss) 
offering several different models, each available with a number of 
different earpieces, and then of course a vast range of programming 
options.


Talk with your audiologist.
My audiologist set a Music program for me, which does not have the 
echo cancellation.  I can even listen to an organ with that setting.

The default music program on mine does have some echo cancellation 
(though not as aggressive as the speech program) and I was rather 
disappointed with its limited dynamic range before DSP artefacts appear, 
and they have to be switched off when *playing* a musical instrument 
quite close to the ear.

I'd love to borrow the audiologist's programming interface for a few 
weeks!


I do get feedback with some headphones, but I have success using the 
Sony MDR series (consumer grade, not the pro version of similar 'phones.

That's interesting; I'd have assumed that all fully-enclosing headphones 
would have been very similar in respect of feedback to a hearing aid 
inside the earmuffs.  Maybe some of them sit more closely over the 
microphones... but in that case, you'd also be getting less correction 
from the hearing aids.

I just ordered a Yamaha CM500 which has gotten rave reviews on this 
reflector, and I am hopeful that they also will allow me to wear my 
over-the-ear aids with them.

Good luck with them, Don, and we'll look forward to your report.


-- 

73 from Ian GM3SEK
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Edward R. Cole]

Ian,

My Phonak hearing aids use the molded earpiece so that may make the 
difference when wearing headphones.  I have a program for listening 
to music/TV which is flat-freq response and has no 
anti-echo/noise-cancellation routines running.  Works quite well with 
my Sony stereo headphones.  The molded earpiece offer better 
isolation from feedback.

Sounds to me that Fred is using the same hearing aid as me.  My 
hearing loss is not as bad as Fred but worse than Ian, so SSB is a 
challenge but not impossible.  The programing interface inside the 
battery compartment is probably only a serial digital interface and 
may not allow audio in/out.  Contacting Phonak's service dept. might 
tell you more.

I cannot use any device that is in-the-ear since I cannot then wear 
the hearing aid.  My prior hearing aids were in-ear inserts but did 
not have the noise-cancelling features since only one mic can be 
used.  This argument was what swayed me to over the ear.

I will probably try the CM500 from the positive experience by others 
and low price.  If they do not work for me there seems to be a market 
for them so I would not lose much in trade.

I understand your recommendations, Jim.  If my hearing were better 
that probably would work for me.  So far, I have only shifted the Tx 
equalization on my K3, leaving Rx audio shaping to be done by my 
hearing aids.  But I can certainly try some modifications to see if 
it helps.  Measuring hearing is difficult for the professionals so 
the point of giving some time with settings makes sense.  Hearing is 
partly acoustical and partly mental; not that different from analog 
and digital processing in electronics.  Only that programming one's 
self is a iterative process and heuristic.  Takes an adjustment period.

Hope my comments were not too OT and were helpful for the hearing 
impaired as well as the rest of you.  Too often hearing impaired 
folks are seen as not paying attention or Lazy listeners, when, 
in fact, they are concentrating very hard to understand.

Here's an exercise for those with good hearing:  Try placing foam 
inserts in your ears, add a pair shooters hearing muffs and try 
hearing someone whisper while the lawn mower is running.  This is how 
it is everyday for us with hearing problems.  Or turn down the K3 
volume to one notch above minimum during a contest with PRE off and 
ATT on.  Put a pillow over your ears and then use headphones...getting it?

73, Ed

--

Message: 24
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 21:31:06 +0100
From: Ian White GM3SEK gm3...@ifwtech.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Headphones
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
===snipped===
But over-the ear headphones that
completely enclose the hearing aids are not workable either, because the
headphone sound creates a constantly changing feedback environment which
can upset the DSP echo cancellation and sounds terrible.




73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[n5ge]

Ed,

I liked my Oticon aids so well that I talked my 87 year old mother into getting
some (she said she could hear quite well, thank you) ;o)  Mine are very much
like yours in appearance and features.

The aids she got were the newest since I got mine and they are smaller and
thinner than an almond, going behind the ear, but they have the speaker on a
wire that goes into the inner ear, and they actually have xcvrs in them so they
can communicate with each other saying things like that sound was from my side
so you don't need to increase it as much as I do.

The audiologist says that with these aids she can distinguish the direction of
sounds very well.  I hope to get a pair one of these days but as you know, they
are very expensive.  More than 2 KPA500s ;o)

73,
Tom
Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
ARRL Lifetime Member
QCWA Lifetime Member

On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 12:18:14 -0800, Edward R. Cole kl...@acsalaska.net
wrote:

Ian,

My Phonak hearing aids use the molded earpiece so that may make the 
difference when wearing headphones.  I have a program for listening 
to music/TV which is flat-freq response and has no 
anti-echo/noise-cancellation routines running.  Works quite well with 
my Sony stereo headphones.  The molded earpiece offer better 
isolation from feedback.

Sounds to me that Fred is using the same hearing aid as me.  My 
hearing loss is not as bad as Fred but worse than Ian, so SSB is a 
challenge but not impossible.  The programing interface inside the 
battery compartment is probably only a serial digital interface and 
may not allow audio in/out.  Contacting Phonak's service dept. might 
tell you more.

I cannot use any device that is in-the-ear since I cannot then wear 
the hearing aid.  My prior hearing aids were in-ear inserts but did 
not have the noise-cancelling features since only one mic can be 
used.  This argument was what swayed me to over the ear.

I will probably try the CM500 from the positive experience by others 
and low price.  If they do not work for me there seems to be a market 
for them so I would not lose much in trade.

I understand your recommendations, Jim.  If my hearing were better 
that probably would work for me.  So far, I have only shifted the Tx 
equalization on my K3, leaving Rx audio shaping to be done by my 
hearing aids.  But I can certainly try some modifications to see if 
it helps.  Measuring hearing is difficult for the professionals so 
the point of giving some time with settings makes sense.  Hearing is 
partly acoustical and partly mental; not that different from analog 
and digital processing in electronics.  Only that programming one's 
self is a iterative process and heuristic.  Takes an adjustment period.

Hope my comments were not too OT and were helpful for the hearing 
impaired as well as the rest of you.  Too often hearing impaired 
folks are seen as not paying attention or Lazy listeners, when, 
in fact, they are concentrating very hard to understand.

Here's an exercise for those with good hearing:  Try placing foam 
inserts in your ears, add a pair shooters hearing muffs and try 
hearing someone whisper while the lawn mower is running.  This is how 
it is everyday for us with hearing problems.  Or turn down the K3 
volume to one notch above minimum during a contest with PRE off and 
ATT on.  Put a pillow over your ears and then use headphones...getting it?

73, Ed

--

Message: 24
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 21:31:06 +0100
From: Ian White GM3SEK gm3...@ifwtech.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Headphones
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
===snipped===
But over-the ear headphones that
completely enclose the hearing aids are not workable either, because the
headphone sound creates a constantly changing feedback environment which
can upset the DSP echo cancellation and sounds terrible.




73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
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EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-?
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@gmail.com
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Fred Jensen]

On 7/12/2011 1:18 PM, Edward R. Cole wrote:

 I understand your recommendations, Jim.  If my hearing were better
 that probably would work for me.  So far, I have only shifted the Tx
 equalization on my K3, leaving Rx audio shaping to be done by my
 hearing aids.  But I can certainly try some modifications to see if
 it helps.

Elecraft has given those of us with impaired hearing a whole new thing 
to help.  I really urge anyone with hearing impairment and a K3 to spend 
some time with the RX EQ.  Honestly, you probably can't make it perfect, 
although I long ago forgot what perfect was, but you *can* make it better!

I know they tell us it's a +/- 16dB range, but that's 32 dB top to 
bottom, folks!  Just turn the AF Gain up as you figure out your 
settings.  And, do it slowly, half of hearing is in the brain, not the ears.

Thanks Elecraft, SSB is a doable thing for me with the RX EQ.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2011 Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2011
- www.cqp.org
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Edward R. Cole]

Jim and others:

I appreciate your suggestions and observations...but my hearing loss 
is not just one of intensity and frequency.  As typical of many with 
hearing loss, I have loss many of the inner ear structure that 
reproduce sound.  So the sound can be loud enough over wide enough 
spectrum and still be unrecognisable.  The way I like to illustrate 
this is to say you take a knife to your favorite high fidelity 
speaker and shred the hell out of it.  No amount of volume increase 
and egualization will restore good sound out that speaker.  It 
probably will sputter and buzz and thump and give the awfullest crappy sound.

My hearing aids are computer programmed by my audiologist with each 
ear taylored for its needs.  It is a 22-channel DSP system with two 
mics in each hearing aid so noise-cancelling and anti-echo programs 
run.  It has a two-stage AGC system with different response times in 
programs.  I have four separate software programs to chose for 
different hearing situations.  For TV and Ham radio I chose the flat 
wide-spectrum music mode as if gives the crispest sound.  There is 
significant differences for each ear, so using one equalization 
profile will not work as well.

So the best solution for me is using headphones with my hearing aids 
when signals are weak or QRM is high.  Any good fidelity stereo 
headset that is physically comfortable works.  Many headsets press on 
the ears and do not fit around the ear.  The physical pressure on the 
ear with the hearing aid between it and the head causes that to hurt 
after awhile.  If the hearing aid cuff were to press directly on the 
head and not touch the ear it would be much more comfortable.  But 
most are not designed for hearing aid wearer, just like not all TV or 
movies are captioned.  I do not watch uncaptioned TV/movies.

Those with handicaps learn to adapt as people around them are not 
able to understand the problem.  But if you lost a arm or leg or are 
blind there are visual clues for others to recognize.  There is 
nothing to indicate a person is hard of hearing.  Interestingly, most 
people miss the fact that I am wearing hearing aids, or if the did 
they assume it cures my hearing problems.  there is no cure for hearing loss.

I still cannot understand a person who is not facing me or is in 
another room.  If it is a crowded room I hear everything and nothing 
(ultimate QRM).  In a noisy location is near impossible.  If I am 
watching TV and my wife says something I usually have ask her to 
repeat it as I was concentrating on what was on TV.

Thanks
Ed - KL7UW

--

Message: 23
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 13:01:54 -0700
From: Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Headphones
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Message-ID: 4e1a0532.7030...@audiosystemsgroup.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 7/10/2011 10:46 AM, Edward R. Cole wrote:
  I have followed the critiques on the reflector for headset-boom mics
  but have not bought any.  Mostly the reports are on audio performance
  and not comfort.

Hi Ed,

The Yamaha CM500 is quite comfortable.  In the 18 months so that I've
owned mine, it's become my only radio headset, and I often do weekend
contests that keep me in the chair for 15-20 hours (and sometimes as
long as 30 hours) in a weekend.  The large Sony phones (MDR7506 and the
consumer MDR equivalent) are also quite comfortable.

Some thoughts about using headphones WITHIOUT your hearing aids in
place. The condition you've described of very strong loss of hearing
above 500-1,000 Hz is characteristic of the vast majority of people with
enough hearing loss to use (or need) a hearing aid, but the details of
the response shape varies greatly depending on many factors, including
the noise to which the victim has been exposed over the years, and
various medical/physical factors.

   A good hearing aid will include equalization customized to the hearing
loss of each ear to try to restore something approaching normal
hearing.  The RXEQ section of the K3's signal processing can take a
major step in this direction. A hearing impaired user should set the
lower four frequency bands to their lowest settings and boost the top
two bands.  Since ham communications, by their nature, have limited
audio bandwidth, there's no benefit from boosting frequencies higher
than 4kHz.
==snipped



73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
==
BP40IQ   500 KHz - 10-GHz   www.kl7uw.com
EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-?
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@gmail.com
==

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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Kjeld Holm]

Dear All,

 

For your information

 

The Danish company Phonak are selling a device under the name of TVLink
which plugs into the line out, Scart, headphone or external speaker
connector and from it's console sends in stereo to your hearing aids. I have
not tried it yet - so I cannot say anything about how it performs. The price
is 3000 DKK around 450 EUR.

 

Vy de

OZ1CCM, Kjeld  

 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: 10. juli 2011 22:02
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

 

On 7/10/2011 10:46 AM, Edward R. Cole wrote:

 I have followed the critiques on the reflector for headset-boom mics 

 but have not bought any.  Mostly the reports are on audio performance 

 and not comfort.

 

Hi Ed,

 

The Yamaha CM500 is quite comfortable.  In the 18 months so that I've owned
mine, it's become my only radio headset, and I often do weekend contests
that keep me in the chair for 15-20 hours (and sometimes as long as 30
hours) in a weekend.  The large Sony phones (MDR7506 and the consumer MDR
equivalent) are also quite comfortable.

 

Some thoughts about using headphones WITHIOUT your hearing aids in place.
The condition you've described of very strong loss of hearing above
500-1,000 Hz is characteristic of the vast majority of people with enough
hearing loss to use (or need) a hearing aid, but the details of the response
shape varies greatly depending on many factors, including the noise to which
the victim has been exposed over the years, and various medical/physical
factors.

 

  A good hearing aid will include equalization customized to the hearing
loss of each ear to try to restore something approaching normal hearing.
The RXEQ section of the K3's signal processing can take a major step in this
direction. A hearing impaired user should set the lower four frequency bands
to their lowest settings and boost the top two bands.  Since ham
communications, by their nature, have limited audio bandwidth, there's no
benefit from boosting frequencies higher than 4kHz.

 

One thing I WOULD strongly suggest, if it's practical, is for Elecraft to
add an optional DSP setting for hearing impaired individuals that would do
some simple but strong low-cut and some general contouring of the spectrum
above 500 Hz.

 

In general, the biggest single thing we can do to improve speech
intelligibility is to minimize the bass content (below about 350-400 Hz) so
that these sounds, which do NOT contribute to speech intelligibility, don't
waste audio power that can be used for the higher frequency sounds that DO
carry intelligibility.

 

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Phil Kane]

On 7/11/2011 7:25 AM, Kjeld Holm wrote:

 The Danish company Phonak are selling a device under the name of
 TVLink which plugs into the line out, Scart, headphone or
 external speaker connector and from it's console sends in stereo
 to your hearing aids. I have not tried it yet - so I cannot say
 anything about how it performs. The price is 3000 DKK around 450
 EUR.

  Thank you very much for this information.  I am looking for
  something like that for use with my scanner when I am
  travelling.  The dongles that I have seen on line only seem to
  have a 2 hour battery life at the most.

  I will be receiving my Phonak hearing-aids later this month and
  after I get used to them I will look into whether the TVLink
  will suit my needs.


--  73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Jim Brown]

On 7/10/2011 11:54 PM, Edward R. Cole wrote:
 I appreciate your suggestions and observations...but my hearing loss
 is not just one of intensity and frequency.

Ed,

I understand your more severe hearing loss, but I was responding IN PART 
to many others on the list with much less several loss than you, and can 
use RXEQ to solve their own problems, at least until their hearing loss 
progresses.

As a Fellow of the Audio Engineering Society,  I also understand the 
issues with headphones fitting hearing aids, just as I also understand 
the DIFFERENCES between hearing loss and hearing aids.

Etymotic Research, one of the major mfrs of signal processing for 
hearing aids of the type you wear, has long been a supporter of the 
Chicago Section of the AES, and their engineers are active in that 
section and made excellent technical presentations to the section. Until 
I moved to CA in 2006, I was an active member of that Section. Nearly 10 
years ago, my colleague Bob Schulein (who was the designer of the Shure 
SM57 and SM58 and by then joined Etymotic) presented his work on the 
development of directional mics for hearing aids.

It's really good that you have raised these issues in detail, because 
the physical design of a hearing aid has major impact on whether it CAN 
work with headphones -- that is, where are the sensors, and are there 
headphones that can comfortably be worn with them in place. This is an 
important question that any of us must resolve when BUYING a hearing aid.

I suspect that any good headphones that WILL fit will work reasonably 
well if they are also sufficiently comfortable.  That was the reason for 
my comments responding to a question (don't remember if it was yours) 
about comfort and the CM500s. These ARE circumaural phones, so they 
might fit you.  Ditto for the Sony 7506.

73, Jim Brown K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Edward R. Cole]

I have had many inquiries for that hearing aid I wear.

They are the Phonak Savia.  Cost me about $5200 for both ears in 
2006.  I see this model is not longer offered and newer models 
available.  Hearing aid technology is advancing quickly.  I have no 
financial connection with Phonak.

73, Ed - KL7UW

--

Message: 13
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 16:25:34 +0200
From: Kjeld Holm k...@kh-translation.dk
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Headphones
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Message-ID: 009401cc3fd6$65b650a0$3122f1e0$@kh-translation.dk
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=us-ascii

Dear All,

For your information

The Danish company Phonak are selling a device under the name of TVLink
which plugs into the line out, Scart, headphone or external speaker
connector and from it's console sends in stereo to your hearing aids. I have
not tried it yet - so I cannot say anything about how it performs. The price
is 3000 DKK around 450 EUR.

Vy de

OZ1CCM, Kjeld



73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
==
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EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-?
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@gmail.com
==

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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Fred Jensen]

On 7/11/2011 9:15 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

 Ed,

 I understand your more severe hearing loss, but I was responding IN PART
 to many others on the list with much less several loss than you, and can
 use RXEQ to solve their own problems, at least until their hearing loss
 progresses.

I appreciate this thread.  I too am both nearly deaf, and even with 
level and frequency correction, I can't understand someone speaking 
behind me.  My loss occurred all at once from an RPG explosion one 
night, and I've been told the rocks on your hair cells are gone so it 
affects my sense of balance as well.

The latest hearing aids the VA gave me are Phonak multi-program DSP 
gizmos, and are many light years ahead of anything else I've had.  They 
run at afterburner roar and do not work under the Heil Proset I got 
from Elecraft.  However I do get to walk around with $6K of fairly 
effective micro-electronics stuffed into my ears thanks to very generous 
American taxpayers.  Thank you all, I hope I deserve it.

SSB has been pretty much a non-starter since my hearing disappeared, and 
I stick to CW most of the time.   On Jim's patient advice [we know each 
other], I have been able to tailor the K3 Rx EQ to get an overall range 
of about 30 dB differential correction, and SSB on a quiet band, without 
QRM and accents, has become semi-usable for me -- first time in 40 
years.  75 or 80 dB of correction would be better, but the 30 or so does 
really help.

It took some time to work it out, and the final settings, while 
similar to the programs for my aids, are a little non-intuitive.  One 
of Jim's suggestions was to go slow.  Make a change, and then evaluate 
it over several days or a week under various band conditions.  I, of 
course, expected to sit down and get this done in 10 mins :-)  So, if 
you are hearing-impaired with a K3, I would urge you to spend some time 
with the Rx equalizer.  You *can* make a difference with it.

My hearing aids have a teeny little multi-wire connector inside the 
battery compartment they use to program them.  I've wondered if there 
was a way to use that to feed flat audio from the radio into them for 
correction, but so far, no progress on that front.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2011 Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2011
- www.cqp.org
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Ian White GM3SEK]

Fred Jensen wrote:
I appreciate this thread.  I too am both nearly deaf, and even with 
level and frequency correction, I can't understand someone speaking 
behind me.  My loss occurred all at once from an RPG explosion one 
night, and I've been told the rocks on your hair cells are gone so it 
affects my sense of balance as well.

The latest hearing aids the VA gave me are Phonak multi-program DSP 
gizmos, and are many light years ahead of anything else I've had. They 
run at afterburner roar and do not work under the Heil Proset I got 
from Elecraft.  However I do get to walk around with $6K of fairly 
effective micro-electronics stuffed into my ears thanks to very 
generous American taxpayers.  Thank you all, I hope I deserve it.

Chalk up another Phonak user here, again a behind-the-ear design with a 
remarkable adaptive DSP and user-selectable programs for special 
functions. My natural hearing is almost exactly 'SSB quality', good up 
to about 2.5kHz but then rolling off rapidly, so the hearing aids are 
programmed to restore the higher frequencies that I haven't been hearing 
lately.

Unlike the usual solid ear mold, mine have open earpieces within the ear 
canal which allow the lower frequencies to enter and be heard naturally. 
The hearing aids are only adding (or emphasizing) what's missing.

The one application where I don't need the hearing aids at present is 
when listening to SSB or CW... but that may change as my frequency 
rolloff is likely to continue its downward march, so this whole 
discussion remains very relevant to me.

The problem with using on-the-ear headphones (such as computer headsets) 
is that behind-the-ear hearing aids cannot pick up the full headphone 
sound that they need to process. But over-the ear headphones that 
completely enclose the hearing aids are not workable either, because the 
headphone sound creates a constantly changing feedback environment which 
can upset the DSP echo cancellation and sounds terrible.

The only solution then is to operate without the hearing aids, and rely 
on either the radio or some external EQ to apply the necessary 
corrections.

The K3's receive EQ can do this for us, but some users will find it 
essential to have independently adjustable EQ for each ear. A preset L-R 
balance would also be useful, so that the concentric AF gain controls 
can be reserved for their normal use.

We're all getting older, but most of us are intending to keep our K3s 
for a long, long time, so the numbers of people who could benefit seem 
likely to increase.




-- 

73 from Ian GM3SEK
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Don Wilhelm]

  Ian,

I use the same type hearing aids.  Talk with your audiologist.
My audiologist set a Music program for me, which does not have the 
echo cancellation.  I can even listen to an organ with that setting.
I do get feedback with some headphones, but I have success using the 
Sony MDR series (consumer grade, not the pro version of similar 'phones.

I just ordered a Yamaha CM500 which has gotten rave reviews on this 
reflector, and I am hopeful that they also will allow me to wear my 
over-the-ear aids with them.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/11/2011 4:31 PM, Ian White GM3SEK wrote:

   because the
 headphone sound creates a constantly changing feedback environment which
 can upset the DSP echo cancellation and sounds terrible.

 The only solution then is to operate without the hearing aids, and rely
 on either the radio or some external EQ to apply the necessary
 corrections.


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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Lew Phelps K6LMP]

I recently began wearing hearing aids myself, so I know what you're going 
through. You have to remove hearing aids to use conventional headphones, or 
else you get audio feedback screeching. When you remove hearing aids, if you're 
like most people, you lose ability to hear higher frequencies, which is the 
range in which consonants reside, and from which we discern the meaning of 
speech. (vowels are about 300-600 Hz, but we don't extract much meaning from 
vowel sounds.)  

As a first step, adjust the audio receive profile to give a some boost to 
frequencies up to 1kHz and a lot of boost to higher frequencies.. This will 
offset the increased hearing loss at higher frequencies that most people with 
hearing loss experience, and restore ability to discern consonants.  
Unfortunately, this also can increase background noise levels.   

IF that doesn't do the job, other possible solutions include:

1. Hearing aid compatible headphones such as the Geemarc CLA3 Hearing Aid 
Compatible Headset (haven't tried)
2. Bluetooth adapter. Many modern hearing aids have Bluetooth connectivity, so 
you can use them as headphones with a Bluetooth headset dongle. Google on 
bluetooth audio dongle 3.5 and you'll come up with quite a few, ranging in 
price from about #$20 to $40, that will plug into the headset jack and convert 
the audio output to a Bluetooth signal, which you can hear directly through any 
Bluetooth enabled hearing aid.  I haven't tried this, but I plan to do obtain 
one very soon.
3. Have you tried speakers and hearing aids combined? If that doesn't work, 
your hearing aids probably need adjustment or replacement.
4.  If you want to use conventional headphones without your hearing aids, put a 
small stereo amplifier inline between line out  output of your rig and your 
headphones. Preferably, use an amp with equalizer controls, and boost the 
higher frequencies commensurate with your hearing loss profile. 

Hope this helps.

Lew K6LMP

On Jul 9, 2011, at 2:17 PM, Bill Ross wrote:

 Because of a hearing loss, (I wear hearing aids) I find that wearing 
 headphones with the K3 (and another radios) works better for me. However, I 
 have noticed that I get more volume out of the built-in speaker than the 
 various headsets I have.  With the headsets on, I find I am running the 
 volume control just about at max most of the time, with RF gain also at max.  
 One of the headsets I use, is an old RS “HI-FI” pair that cost $40. way back 
 when, and yet, are less sensitive than my Sony ear buds.  Also, for some 
 reason, the RS headset must have a low freq. cutoff near the 600 Hz side 
 tone, as I get more of a “thump” than a sine wave tone out of them. The Sony 
 ear buds, work better, (more volume than the RS ones, even without my aids 
 in) , and the side tone sounds better,  than the RS “HI-FI” headset, but, 
 still less than the built-in speaker. 
 
 Does anyone have any experience with the “communications type headphones sold 
 by AES and other ham radio dealers, or that advertise in QST, CQ, etc.? 
 
 Would appreciate any guidance or advice from someone who’s “been there”.  
 
 Tnx and 73
 
 Bill, k6mgo
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Chuck Shefflette]

Although I don't have hearing issues serious enough to warrant hearing aids, I 
do like wearing headphones and spent quite a while finding any that were as 
comfortable as the multi-hundred dollar ones we used to use in the military 
years ago. I settled on a Yamaha CM-500 headset as I do a fair amount of phone 
and CW. I used them on Field Day this year - the first time I had used them for 
more than a short period since I purchased them. I have to say that the audio 
was wonderful and they were very comfortable. The CM-500 microphone works very 
well. I use the same TX equalizer settings I use for the Elecraft hand mic and 
have received several unsolicited reports of very good audio which is even more 
satisfying since much of my work is, by choice, QRP or at least power levels 
below 25W.

For about $50, the Yamaha headset is certainly worth a look.

73, Chuck - AA3CS

On 10 Jul 2011, at 13:46, Edward R. Cole wrote:

 Lew and Bill,
 
 You are both lucky if you can wear headphones without using your 
 hearing aids to copy signals well.  I am nearly deaf without 
 mine.  Increasing volume does not add comprehension.  My hearing is 
 35 dB in both ears with roll off to nothing above 800-Hz.
 
 But I use a pair of Sony stereo headphones MDR-V600 that have a soft 
 cuff the covers the ears completely.  My hearing aids are Phonic 
 Silvia over-the-ear models with two mics for noise cancelling (spendy 
 - cost $2600/ea.).  But they do not feedback when I wear 
 headphones.  When I fly I wear a pair of Bose nose-cancelling 
 headphones.  They do have a T-coil mode for use with telephones but I 
 find that it does not work well.  At home we have Panasonic 5-GHz 
 cordless phones with speakerphone.  That works very 
 nice.  Fortunately, I do not work the 5760 MHz ham band.
 
 My problem is if I wear the headphones for hours there is some 
 physical discomfort from the headphones pressing my ear and hearing 
 aid, so I often remove the hearing aids when flying.  Of course then 
 my hearing is about -60dB and I hear nothing.
 
 I have followed the critiques on the reflector for headset-boom mics 
 but have not bought any.  Mostly the reports are on audio performance 
 and not comfort.
 
 73, Ed - KL7uW
 --
 
 Message: 31
 Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2011 23:12:35 -0700
 From: Lew Phelps K6LMP k6...@me.com
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Headphones
 To: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Message-ID: 18fdeddb-af29-4b5b-a6a6-8acd07ded...@me.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
 
 I recently began wearing hearing aids myself, so I know what you're 
 going through. You have to remove hearing aids to use conventional 
 headphones, or else you get audio feedback screeching. When you 
 remove hearing aids, if you're like most people, you lose ability to 
 hear higher frequencies, which is the range in which consonants 
 reside, and from which we discern the meaning of speech. (vowels are 
 about 300-600 Hz, but we don't extract much meaning from vowel sounds.)
 
 As a first step, adjust the audio receive profile to give a some 
 boost to frequencies up to 1kHz and a lot of boost to higher 
 frequencies.. This will offset the increased hearing loss at higher 
 frequencies that most people with hearing loss experience, and 
 restore ability to discern consonants.  Unfortunately, this also can 
 increase background noise levels.
 
 IF that doesn't do the job, other possible solutions include:
 
 1. Hearing aid compatible headphones such as the Geemarc CLA3 Hearing 
 Aid Compatible Headset (haven't tried)
 2. Bluetooth adapter. Many modern hearing aids have Bluetooth 
 connectivity, so you can use them as headphones with a Bluetooth 
 headset dongle. Google on bluetooth audio dongle 3.5 and you'll 
 come up with quite a few, ranging in price from about #$20 to $40, 
 that will plug into the headset jack and convert the audio output to 
 a Bluetooth signal, which you can hear directly through any Bluetooth 
 enabled hearing aid.  I haven't tried this, but I plan to do obtain 
 one very soon.
 3. Have you tried speakers and hearing aids combined? If that doesn't 
 work, your hearing aids probably need adjustment or replacement.
 4.  If you want to use conventional headphones without your hearing 
 aids, put a small stereo amplifier inline between line out  output of 
 your rig and your headphones. Preferably, use an amp with equalizer 
 controls, and boost the higher frequencies commensurate with your 
 hearing loss profile.
 
 Hope this helps.
 
 Lew K6LMP
 
 
 
 
 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
 ==
 BP40IQ   500 KHz - 10-GHz   www.kl7uw.com
 EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-?
 DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@gmail.com
 ==
 
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Jim Brown]

On 7/10/2011 10:46 AM, Edward R. Cole wrote:
 I have followed the critiques on the reflector for headset-boom mics
 but have not bought any.  Mostly the reports are on audio performance
 and not comfort.

Hi Ed,

The Yamaha CM500 is quite comfortable.  In the 18 months so that I've 
owned mine, it's become my only radio headset, and I often do weekend 
contests that keep me in the chair for 15-20 hours (and sometimes as 
long as 30 hours) in a weekend.  The large Sony phones (MDR7506 and the 
consumer MDR equivalent) are also quite comfortable.

Some thoughts about using headphones WITHIOUT your hearing aids in 
place. The condition you've described of very strong loss of hearing 
above 500-1,000 Hz is characteristic of the vast majority of people with 
enough hearing loss to use (or need) a hearing aid, but the details of 
the response shape varies greatly depending on many factors, including 
the noise to which the victim has been exposed over the years, and 
various medical/physical factors.

  A good hearing aid will include equalization customized to the hearing 
loss of each ear to try to restore something approaching normal 
hearing.  The RXEQ section of the K3's signal processing can take a 
major step in this direction. A hearing impaired user should set the 
lower four frequency bands to their lowest settings and boost the top 
two bands.  Since ham communications, by their nature, have limited 
audio bandwidth, there's no benefit from boosting frequencies higher 
than 4kHz.

One thing I WOULD strongly suggest, if it's practical, is for Elecraft 
to add an optional DSP setting for hearing impaired individuals that 
would do some simple but strong low-cut and some general contouring of 
the spectrum above 500 Hz.

In general, the biggest single thing we can do to improve speech 
intelligibility is to minimize the bass content (below about 350-400 Hz) 
so that these sounds, which do NOT contribute to speech intelligibility, 
don't waste audio power that can be used for the higher frequency sounds 
that DO carry intelligibility.

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Barry]

My favorite headphones are Sony MDR-W08.  They were $9.99 at Wal-mart.  They
go in the ear and are comfortable even for (almost) full-time use in a 48h
contest.

--
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Headphones-tp6568191p6569196.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[Barry Simpson]

Hi Bill

I have been a long time user of a pair of Yaesu YH-77STA headphones. They
provide more volume than the various other Sony and Heil headphones that I
have and they are very comfortable to wear.

73

Barry  VK2BJ

On 9 July 2011 21:17, Bill Ross k6...@verizon.net wrote:

 Because of a hearing loss, (I wear hearing aids) I find that wearing
 headphones with the K3 (and another radios) works better for me. However, I
 have noticed that I get more volume out of the built-in speaker than the
 various headsets I have.  With the headsets on, I find I am running the
 volume control just about at max most of the time, with RF gain also at max.
  One of the headsets I use, is an old RS “HI-FI” pair that cost $40. way
 back when, and yet, are less sensitive than my Sony ear buds.  Also, for
 some reason, the RS headset must have a low freq. cutoff near the 600 Hz
 side tone, as I get more of a “thump” than a sine wave tone out of them. The
 Sony ear buds, work better, (more volume than the RS ones, even without my
 aids in) , and the side tone sounds better,  than the RS “HI-FI” headset,
 but, still less than the built-in speaker.

 Does anyone have any experience with the “communications type headphones
 sold by AES and other ham radio dealers, or that advertise in QST, CQ, etc.?

 Would appreciate any guidance or advice from someone who’s “been there”.

 Tnx and 73

 Bill, k6mgo
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Re: [Elecraft] Headphones

[KE8G]

Bill,

I, too, am somewhat at a hearing deficit - loud tool  die shop work,  but 
not yet at the hearing aid stage.

I know folks are going to say I am crazy, flame proof suit on, when I tell 
you that I use a set of Frisby (model FHP-100) headphones with my K3 and 
they work FANTASTIC!!.  Best part is, they are cheap, I mean very cheap, I'm 
talking $10-$15 cheap!  I bought 3 pair of them and unfortunately had to go 
to the second pair, as my youngest puppy snuck into the shack and decided to 
chew on the padded ear pieces.

Now, I only run CW, so that might be the reason they work for me.  I usually 
have the AF gain some where around the 9:00 position, and RF is adjusted 
according to the band, but never max.  The headphones have a volume 
adjustment inline that I use rather than moving the AF gain.

They also have a mike boom attached, and I have used it on 2 meter FM, with 
local folks telling me that I sound very natural.

For what they cost, I would recommend you give them a try and if you don't 
like them you are not out much.  Heck, you can contact me off line, and I'll 
buy them from you if you don't like them.  You'll be out nothing other than 
the time trying them.

Okay, enough said on this subject.  Have a nice weekend.

73 de Jim - KE8G

Flame proof suit off!


- Original Message - 
From: Barry Simpson vk...@optusnet.com.au
To: Bill Ross k6...@verizon.net
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Headphones


Hi Bill

I have been a long time user of a pair of Yaesu YH-77STA headphones. They
provide more volume than the various other Sony and Heil headphones that I
have and they are very comfortable to wear.

73

Barry  VK2BJ

On 9 July 2011 21:17, Bill Ross k6...@verizon.net wrote:

 Because of a hearing loss, (I wear hearing aids) I find that wearing
 headphones with the K3 (and another radios) works better for me. However, 
 I
 have noticed that I get more volume out of the built-in speaker than the
 various headsets I have.  With the headsets on, I find I am running the
 volume control just about at max most of the time, with RF gain also at 
 max.
  One of the headsets I use, is an old RS “HI-FI” pair that cost $40. way
 back when, and yet, are less sensitive than my Sony ear buds.  Also, for
 some reason, the RS headset must have a low freq. cutoff near the 600 Hz
 side tone, as I get more of a “thump” than a sine wave tone out of them. 
 The
 Sony ear buds, work better, (more volume than the RS ones, even without my
 aids in) , and the side tone sounds better,  than the RS “HI-FI” headset,
 but, still less than the built-in speaker.

 Does anyone have any experience with the “communications type headphones
 sold by AES and other ham radio dealers, or that advertise in QST, CQ, 
 etc.?

 Would appreciate any guidance or advice from someone who’s “been there”.

 Tnx and 73

 Bill, k6mgo
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Re: [Elecraft] headphones in phone jack makes meter go up ...

[Duncan Carter]

This problem popped up on my K3 after installing the dsp filter upgrade 
a few months ago.  I went over the dsp board connections to no avail.  
Today, I installed the KDVR and plugging the headphones in the jack no 
longer makes the S-meter go up so I assume it was a connection somewhere 
on the front panel.

Dunc, W5DC
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Re: [Elecraft] headphones in phone jack makes meter go up ...

[Duncan Carter]

I'm in process of slowly troubleshooting the same problem.  One thing 
I've found is that there are intermittent ground resistance issues 
between the front panel grounds and rear panel grounds.  I also had the 
problem of intermittent HI RFI indications and perhaps, because of the 
same problem, I have noise from other sources coupled to the line out 
and other rear panel audio jacks. 

Dunc, W5DC

n...@comcast.net wrote:
 when i plug in the phones ...front panel the s meter goes up to 40 
 over 

 previous owner had plug and jack behind mic jack misaligned 
 causing other issues with the phone jack being plugged inno audio out of 
 spkr in no: config,,, 

 but why the s meter action ???/ 


 otherwise seems ok.. 

 bill 
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Re: [Elecraft] headphones in phone jack makes meter go up ...

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

Is this a K3 or a K2?

On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 12:22 PM, Duncan Carter d...@vibrotek.com wrote:
 I'm in process of slowly troubleshooting the same problem.  One thing
 I've found is that there are intermittent ground resistance issues
 between the front panel grounds and rear panel grounds.  I also had the
 problem of intermittent HI RFI indications and perhaps, because of the
 same problem, I have noise from other sources coupled to the line out
 and other rear panel audio jacks.

 Dunc, W5DC

 n...@comcast.net wrote:
 when i plug in the phones ...front panel the s meter goes up to 40 
 over

 previous owner had plug and jack behind mic jack misaligned
 causing other issues with the phone jack being plugged inno audio out of 
 spkr in no: config,,,

 but why the s meter action ???/


 otherwise seems ok..

 bill
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Re: [Elecraft] headphones in phone jack makes meter go up ...

[Duncan Carter]

K3, S/N 3543 with a recently exchanged dsp board.

Dunc, W5DC

Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
 Is this a K3 or a K2?

 On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 12:22 PM, Duncan Carter d...@vibrotek.com wrote:
   
 I'm in process of slowly troubleshooting the same problem.  One thing
 I've found is that there are intermittent ground resistance issues
 between the front panel grounds and rear panel grounds.  I also had the
 problem of intermittent HI RFI indications and perhaps, because of the
 same problem, I have noise from other sources coupled to the line out
 and other rear panel audio jacks.

 Dunc, W5DC

 n...@comcast.net wrote:
 
 when i plug in the phones ...front panel the s meter goes up to 40 
 over

 previous owner had plug and jack behind mic jack misaligned
 causing other issues with the phone jack being plugged inno audio out 
 of spkr in no: config,,,

 but why the s meter action ???/


 otherwise seems ok..

 bill
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Re: [Elecraft] headphones in phone jack makes meter go up ...

[Greg]

Is there a chance a pin got bent or misaligned when putting the boards 
back together?

73
Greg
AB7R


On 8/1/2010 10:28 AM, Duncan Carter wrote:
 K3, S/N 3543 with a recently exchanged dsp board.

 Dunc, W5DC

 Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:

 Is this a K3 or a K2?

 On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 12:22 PM, Duncan Carterd...@vibrotek.com  wrote:

  
 I'm in process of slowly troubleshooting the same problem.  One thing
 I've found is that there are intermittent ground resistance issues
 between the front panel grounds and rear panel grounds.  I also had the
 problem of intermittent HI RFI indications and perhaps, because of the
 same problem, I have noise from other sources coupled to the line out
 and other rear panel audio jacks.

 Dunc, W5DC

 n...@comcast.net wrote:


 when i plug in the phones ...front panel the s meter goes up to 40 
 over

 previous owner had plug and jack behind mic jack misaligned
 causing other issues with the phone jack being plugged inno audio out 
 of spkr in no: config,,,

 but why the s meter action ???/


 otherwise seems ok..

 bill
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Re: [Elecraft] headphones in phone jack makes meter go up ...

[Don Wilhelm]

Was the nut on the headphone jack tightened sufficiently to make the 
washer behind the panel tight?  If not, there is a possibility that the 
board is moving a bit when the headphones are plugged in (or removed) 
and may cause strange happenings.
Squeeze the board and front panel metal together and snug up the 
headphone jack nut to strong finger tightness.

73,
Don W3FPR

Duncan Carter wrote:
 K3, S/N 3543 with a recently exchanged dsp board.

 Dunc, W5DC

 Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
   
 Is this a K3 or a K2?

 On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 12:22 PM, Duncan Carter d...@vibrotek.com wrote:
   
 
 I'm in process of slowly troubleshooting the same problem.  One thing
 I've found is that there are intermittent ground resistance issues
 between the front panel grounds and rear panel grounds.  I also had the
 problem of intermittent HI RFI indications and perhaps, because of the
 same problem, I have noise from other sources coupled to the line out
 and other rear panel audio jacks.

 Dunc, W5DC

 n...@comcast.net wrote:
 
   
 when i plug in the phones ...front panel the s meter goes up to 40 
 over

 previous owner had plug and jack behind mic jack misaligned
 causing other issues with the phone jack being plugged inno audio out 
 of spkr in no: config,,,

 but why the s meter action ???/


 otherwise seems ok..

 bill
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Re: [Elecraft] headphones in phone jack makes meter go up ...

[Duncan Carter]

It could but I don't think it's too likely.  As far as misalignment is 
concerned, I think if you don't bend a pin and you carefully line up the 
pins and sockets and if the pins slide into the sockets freely as mine 
did, if there's any mis-alignment, there's a socket issue that's beyond 
my control.

Elecraft has circuit diagrams available on-line and I've spent quite a 
few hours lately studying them.  What I haven't seen are drawing of the 
circuit board traces which are common service information; having trace 
board drawings would really help in troubleshooting the problems.

I could, of course, just send it to Elecraft but that's not very 
appealing to me.  I've been a ham for fifty-five years and build, 
modified, ad repaired my own gear and other peoples.  I've done repairs 
and managed service depots for industrial vibration equipment.  One of 
the things that I've learned that if you send something with 
intermittent problems in for repair without knowing what is really 
wrong, there a good chance that you'll get it back without the problem 
really being cured.  I also have a good collection of test equipment.

Dunc, W5DC

Greg wrote:
 Is there a chance a pin got bent or misaligned when putting the boards 
 back together?

 73
 Greg
 AB7R


 On 8/1/2010 10:28 AM, Duncan Carter wrote:
   
 K3, S/N 3543 with a recently exchanged dsp board.

 Dunc, W5DC

 Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:

 
 Is this a K3 or a K2?

 On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 12:22 PM, Duncan Carterd...@vibrotek.com  wrote:

  
   
 I'm in process of slowly troubleshooting the same problem.  One thing
 I've found is that there are intermittent ground resistance issues
 between the front panel grounds and rear panel grounds.  I also had the
 problem of intermittent HI RFI indications and perhaps, because of the
 same problem, I have noise from other sources coupled to the line out
 and other rear panel audio jacks.

 Dunc, W5DC

 n...@comcast.net wrote:


 
 when i plug in the phones ...front panel the s meter goes up to 40 
 over

 previous owner had plug and jack behind mic jack misaligned
 causing other issues with the phone jack being plugged inno audio out 
 of spkr in no: config,,,

 but why the s meter action ???/


 otherwise seems ok..

 bill
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Re: [Elecraft] headphones in phone jack makes meter go up ...

[Duncan Carter]

I did that but it didn't help.

Dunc, W5DC

Don Wilhelm wrote:
 Was the nut on the headphone jack tightened sufficiently to make the 
 washer behind the panel tight?  If not, there is a possibility that 
 the board is moving a bit when the headphones are plugged in (or 
 removed) and may cause strange happenings.
 Squeeze the board and front panel metal together and snug up the 
 headphone jack nut to strong finger tightness.

 73,
 Don W3FPR
.
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Re: [Elecraft] headphones in phone jack makes meter go up ...

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

It may be that the problem is around/related to the RF gain pot.
Check the traces/pins/sockets related to that.   RF gain is a
voltage across a pot, whose wipe, with a percentage of the high side
voltage, is sent to an ADC to generate numerical advice to the MCU for
RF gain.  Anything that shorts or places an existing voltage on the
wipe line other than that from the pot wipe could move the voltage
indicating erroneously that you had set the RF gain back, and would
raise the S meter reading.  Even though this is a digital process, the
analog behavior was retained of setting the S meter to where the
signal would have to be to have signal engage AGC again.

When the defect is in force, does the radio behave as if you had
cranked back the RF gain to the point of showing that same S meter
reading or does it still receive as if the RF gain were at maximum?

73, Guy.

On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Duncan Carter d...@vibrotek.com wrote:
 I did that but it didn't help.

 Dunc, W5DC

 Don Wilhelm wrote:
 Was the nut on the headphone jack tightened sufficiently to make the
 washer behind the panel tight?  If not, there is a possibility that
 the board is moving a bit when the headphones are plugged in (or
 removed) and may cause strange happenings.
 Squeeze the board and front panel metal together and snug up the
 headphone jack nut to strong finger tightness.

 73,
 Don W3FPR
 .
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