RE: Lithium battery coin cell shipping restrictions
Lauren Here it is, http://www.tadiranbatteries.de/eng/downloads/. As you will see, it is the German website that has the information, but don't worry, it is a multilingual website. Be careful, because the regulations changed effective Jan 1st, so you may still see some incorrect information from some sources. The main difference seems to be a different treatment for Lithium-Ion batteries compared to Lithium Metal batteries. A copy of the IATA Regulations is well worth the investment and you can get them in either hard copy or on CD-ROM; not a great deal of money. Best regards Neil Barker Manager Central Quality e2v 106 Waterhouse Lane, Chelmsford, Essex, CM1 2QU, England Tel: +44 (0)1245 453616 Mobile: +44 (0)7801 723735 Fax:+44 (0)1245 453571 www.e2v.com http://www.e2v.com/ P Consider the environment: do you really need to print this e mail? From: lauren_cr...@amat.com [mailto:lauren_cr...@amat.com] Sent: 12 January 2009 17:52 To: Barker, Neil Subject: RE: Lithium battery coin cell shipping restrictions Neil, Do you have a link you could share for Tadiran? I looked at their US website and couldn't find the info you mention. Regards, Lauren Crane Product Regulatory Analyst Corporate Product EHS Lead Applied Materials Inc. Austin, TX 512 272-6540 [#922 26540] The content of this message is Applied Materials Confidential. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this message in error, any use or distribution is prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message from your computer system. Thank you. Save paper and trees! Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. Barker, Neil neil.bar...@e2v.com Sent by: emc-p...@ieee.org 01/05/2009 09:23 AM To Daniel Roman dan.ro...@dialogic.com, emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org emc-pstc@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG cc Subject RE: Lithium battery coin cell shipping restrictions Dan For a coin cell, you are typically talking fractions of a gram, not grams. For shipping purposes you can ship cells/batteries equivalent to 3 or 4 AA size cells/batteries. Individual batteries only become a problem at C size and above. Some of the best information that I have found is on the Tadiran Batteries website; they seem to have explained all the international shipping regulations in simple terms with data for all cell/battery sizes. Neil Barker Manager Central Quality e2v 106 Waterhouse Lane, Chelmsford, Essex, CM1 2QU, England Tel: +44 (0)1245 453616 Mobile: +44 (0)7801 723735 Fax:+44 (0)1245 453571 www.e2v.com http://www.e2v.com/ P Consider the environment: do you really need to print this e mail? From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Roman Sent: 05 January 2009 15:09 To: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Subject: Lithium battery coin cell shipping restrictions Happy new year to all! DOT 49 CFR Parts 171, 172, 173, and 175 concerning the shipment of lithium batteries is in effect now. Not being a battery or shipping expert, I’m having a little trouble defining exactly the scope and definition. My interpretation has been that these batteries are not within the scope of this requirement based on reading Part 171, but customers are asking additional questions based on vague information from shipping companies’ web sites so I’m looking for further clarification. Are the coin cells that are typically used on computer motherboards for the real time clock in scope? I’ve looked at a couple of battery manufacturers web sites trying to find out how many grams of lithium are in the typical 2032 battery but have not had much luck. -- Dan Roman, N.C.E. Product Regulatory Engineer Dialogic Research Inc. 1515 State Rt. 10 Parsippany, NJ 07054-4538 *mailto:dan.ro...@dialogic.com mailto:dan.ro...@intel.com *Voice: +1 973-967-6485 Fax: +1 973-967-6262 Intranet: http://compliance.eicon.com/ http://compliance.py.intel.com/ Internet: http://www.dialogic.com http //www.intel.com/design/network/products/telecom/index.htm __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Requirements in Ghana
Dear experts, Anyone who knows the requirements for Ghana for EMC, Product Safety, SAR, Radio, environmental etc. The product have WLAN 802-11 b/g and GSM 850/900/1800/1900 bands and UMTS band FDDI/II and V functionality. All input is welcome! Best regards Anders - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
First EUP Regulation implementation regarding standby power
http://tinyurl.com/6tkth3 Entered into force 7/1/09 If the interpretation of Annex I (3) (below) is the same as RoHS where consumer covered B2B professional products also then we have another party to go to... :-( 3. Consumer equipment Radio sets Television sets Videocameras Video recorders Hi-fi recorders Audio amplifiers Home theatre systems Musical instruments And other equipment for the purpose of recording or reproducing sound or images, including signals or other technologies for the distribution of sound and image other than by telecommunications Chris This message (including any attachments) may contain confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose. If you are not the intended recipient, delete this message. If you are not the intended recipient, disclosing, copying, distributing, or taking any action based on this message is strictly prohibited. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: Electrical product recall
John, My primary concern is for Europe. It seems US has lots of information/guidelines. Scott From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John Woodgate Sent: 2009年1月13日 01:20 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Electrical product recall In message 496b73b1.04686e0a.6145.c...@mx.google.com, dated Tue, 13 Jan 2009, Scott Xe scott...@gmail.com writes: It is a quite common terms in the industry and mostly related to safety hazard. We would like to establish a process for the product recall. Is there any important rules or guidance to follow for a meaningful and absolutely necessary recall? Are you concerned with product recall in Europe? The rules are different form those in USA, of course, just to make things exciting. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Things can always get better. But that's not the only option. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: Electrical product recall
In message 496c8c92.09876e0a.1d10.7...@mx.google.com, dated Tue, 13 Jan 2009, Scott Xe scott...@gmail.com writes: My primary concern is for Europe. It seems US has lots of information/guidelines. People have already posted details of the European system. Do you need any further information? -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Things can always get better. But that's not the only option. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: First EUP Regulation implementation regarding standby power
In message f49bf8e684bc6c4188d1d63513c4ca07068a9...@sparrow.dolby.net, dated Tue, 13 Jan 2009, James, Chris c...@dolby.co.uk writes: If the interpretation of Annex I (3) (below) is the same as RoHS where consumer covered B2B professional products also then we have another party to go to... L There is a similar interpretation issue with the last phrase of Article 2 subsection 1. However, a UK trade association has received from the British Ministry concerned an indication that 'professional' products not intended for use in the home are NOT within the scope. However, the Regulation lumps 'office' with 'household', so there is another way in which the wording is ambiguous and, if we believe the Ministry, misleading. You may notice that 'hi-fi recorders' are listed. Immediately begin to manufacture 'lo-fi recorders'! -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Things can always get better. But that's not the only option. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
RE: Electrical product recall
Nick, Many thanks for your useful information for European markets. Scott From: Nick Williams [mailto:nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk] Sent: 2009?~1??13?? 03:06 AM To: Scott Xe Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Electrical product recall There is information at the following sites which will be of assistance to you: http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/safety/rapex/index_en.htm http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consumers/Safety/products/unsafe-notificatio n/index.html Somewhere in this lot there is a guidance document which provides a basis for an assessment of whether a recall is necessary. I can send you a copy if you cannot find it in the links on the above pages. At a seminar in November last year, we were told that this guidance is being revised and a new model for assessment has been agreed. Heaven only knows if/when this might make it out into the public domain. Nick. At 00:45 +0800 13/1/09, Scott Xe wrote: It is a quite common terms in the industry and mostly related to safety hazard. We would like to establish a process for the product recall. Is there any important rules or guidance to follow for a meaningful and absolutely necessary recall? Thanks and regards, Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT;mailto:emc-p...@ieee.orgemc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstchttp://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc -pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.htmlhttp://listserv.ieee.org/ request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.htmlhttp://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules .html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas LT;mailto:emcp...@ptcnh.netemcp...@ptcnh.netGT; Mike Cantwell LT;mailto:mcantw...@ieee.orgmcantw...@ieee.orgGT; For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher LT;mailto:j.bac...@ieee.orgj.bac...@ieee.orgGT; David Heald LT;mailto:dhe...@gmail.comdhe...@gmail.comGT; - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
RE: Electrical product recall
Hi Ron, Thanks for your useful information and helpful guidance. What is a compliance engineer? Is it responsible for ensuring the products in compliance with all legal requirements? Scott From: Pickard, Ron [mailto:ron.pick...@intermec.com] Sent: 2009年1月13日 03:54 AM To: Nick Williams; Scott Xe Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Electrical product recall Nick, The operational guidelines link for businesses (for dangerous consumer products) to which you refer is at: htt ://ec.europa.eu/consumers/safety/rapex/guidelines_business_en.htm. It's stated to be new there, but the actual linked document is dated 2004, so I guess we’ll have to wait for the revised edition. Scott, As others from the hoards of us legally unwashed have given sound advice and good references for your company to develop a recall plan, the recall plan that your company develops may likely have to pass scrutiny with your legal dept/management and some likely legal/contractual issues. Also, googling “safety recall plan” should give you several links for you to understand what a recall plan will look like and how to develop one. I hope you find this useful, but please note that I am a compliance engineer and in no way resemble a lawyer, attorney, barrister, counsel(or), legal eagle, ambulance chaser, etc, etc. Therefore, the above is not legal advice and should not be considered as such. If it was, I would be charging you at least $500/hr (with a retainer). Best regards, Ron Pickard ron.pick...@intermec.com mailto:ron.pick...@intermec.com From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Nick Williams Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 1:06 PM To: Scott Xe Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Electrical product recall There is information at the following sites which will be of assistance to you: http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/safety/rapex/index_en.htm http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consume s/Safety/products/unsafe-notification/index.html Somewhere in this lot there is a guidance document which provides a basis for an assessment of whether a recall is necessary. I can send you a copy if you cannot find it in the links on the above pages. At a seminar in November last year, we were told that this guidance is being revised and a new model for assessment has been agreed. Heaven only knows if/when this might make it out into the public domain. Nick. At 00:45 +0800 13/1/09, Scott Xe wrote: It is a quite common terms in the industry and mostly related to safety hazard. We would like to establish a process for the product recall. Is there any important rules or guidance to follow for a meaningful and absolutely necessary recall? Thanks and regards, Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT;mailto:emc-p...@ieee.orgemc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-ps chttp://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user guide.htmlhttp://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.ht lhttp://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas LT;mailto:emcp...@ptcnh.netemcp...@ptcnh.netGT; Mike Cantwell LT;mailto:mcantw...@ieee.orgmcantw...@ieee.orgGT; For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher LT;mailto:j.bac...@ieee.orgj.bac...@ieee.orgGT; David Heald LT;mailto:dhe...@gmail.comdhe...@gmail.comGT; - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions:
RE: Electrical product recall
Ted Brian, Thanks for good information. Scott From: Ted Eckert [mailto:ted.eck...@microsoft.com] Sent: 2009年1月13日 01:09 AM To: Scott Xe; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: Electrical product recall Hello Scott, The US Consumer Product Safety Commission has guidance on recalls. The following link has the CPSC Recall Handbook, a Recall Checklist and a link to assistance from non-CPSC sources. http://www.cpsc.gov/businfo/corrective.html I also recommend that compliance engineers have at least a basic understanding of product liability law. I recently participated in a workshop from Perkins Coie that I highly recommend, although I am sure there are other very good programs available. http://www.perkinscoie.com/events/eventslist.aspx?Upcoming=true In general, you need good legal advice and you should work with legal counsel well versed in this area of practice. Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. I am an engineer and not an attourney; information provided is for general reference only. From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 8:46 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Electrical product recall It is a quite common terms in the industry and mostly related to safety hazard. We would like to establish a process for the product recall. Is there any important rules or guidance to follow for a meaningful and absolutely necessary recall? Thanks and regards, Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: Electrical product recall
John, I have received the useful information and guidelines from Rapex for Europe CPSC for USA for my start and appreciate all the responses from the group. Scott From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John Woodgate Sent: 2009?~1??13?? 09:00 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Electrical product recall In message 496c8c92.09876e0a.1d10.7...@mx.google.com, dated Tue, 13 Jan 2009, Scott Xe scott...@gmail.com writes: My primary concern is for Europe. It seems US has lots of information/guidelines. People have already posted details of the European system. Do you need any further information? -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Things can always get better. But that's not the only option. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: Electrical product recall
In message 496c9a27.04686e0a.0f20.b...@mx.google.com, dated Tue, 13 Jan 2009, Scott Xe scott...@gmail.com writes: What is a compliance engineer? Is it responsible for ensuring the products in compliance with all legal requirements? Most probably, although a compliance engineer and a mass engineer would resonate beautifully. (;-) -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Things can always get better. But that's not the only option. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
RE: Electrical product recall request
Scott et al, To answer your question, typical of the case that most, if not all, of the subscribers of this forum can attest, electronic products are subject to government and industry regulations concerning product safety, electromagnetic noise radiation/immunity and wireless/wired telecommunication. Compliance engineering is a term to describe the engineering activities to ensure that products conform to these regulations. Mostly compliance engineering focuses its attention on published regulatory and industry standards, ensuring that products are in compliance with those regulations. Regulatory standards are those adopted by national governments and are almost exclusively mandatory. Industry standards (Bluetooth, GSM, UMTS, Wibree, RS-xxx, EIA/TIA, etc.) are those standards where compliance may be needed but are not legally mandatory. And in some instances, such as the EU and the US, there is a need to review and interpret government legislation such as the EU’s Directives and the US’s Code of Federal Regulations. In that aspect, compliance engineering does mimic the legal profession. In the limited amount of time that I have today, I wanted to quickly answer your question in a nutshell and hope that the above has adequately answered your question. And, if anyone cares to interject, add or correct the above in any way, please do. Best regards, Ron Pickard ron.pick...@intermec.com mailto:ron.pick...@intermec.com From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 7:42 AM To: Pickard, Ron; 'Nick Williams' Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Electrical product recall Hi Ron, Thanks for your useful information and helpful guidance. What is a compliance engineer? Is it responsible for ensuring the products in compliance with all legal requirements? Scott From: Pickard, Ron [mailto:ron.pick...@intermec.com] Sent: 2009年1月13日 03:54 AM To: Nick Williams; Scott Xe Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Electrical product recall Nick, The operational guidelines link for businesses (for dangerous consumer products) to which you refer is at: htt ://ec.europa.eu/consumers/safety/rapex/guidelines_business_en.htm. It's stated to be new there, but the actual linked document is dated 2004, so I guess we’ll have to wait for the revised edition. Scott, As others from the hoards of us legally unwashed have given sound advice and good references for your company to develop a recall plan, the recall plan that your company develops may likely have to pass scrutiny with your legal dept/management and some likely legal/contractual issues. Also, googling “safety recall plan” should give you several links for you to understand what a recall plan will look like and how to develop one. I hope you find this useful, but please note that I am a compliance engineer and in no way resemble a lawyer, attorney, barrister, counsel(or), legal eagle, ambulance chaser, etc, etc. Therefore, the above is not legal advice and should not be considered as such. If it was, I would be charging you at least $500/hr (with a retainer). Best regards, Ron Pickard ron.pick...@intermec.com mailto:ron.pick...@intermec.com From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Nick Williams Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 1:06 PM To: Scott Xe Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Electrical product recall There is information at the following sites which will be of assistance to you: http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/safety/rapex/index_en.htm http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consume s/Safety/products/unsafe-notification/index.html Somewhere in this lot there is a guidance document which provides a basis for an assessment of whether a recall is necessary. I can send you a copy if you cannot find it in the links on the above pages. At a seminar in November last year, we were told that this guidance is being revised and a new model for assessment has been agreed. Heaven only knows if/when this might make it out into the public domain. Nick. At 00:45 +0800 13/1/09, Scott Xe wrote: It is a quite common terms in the industry and mostly related to safety hazard. We would like to establish a process for the product recall. Is there any important rules or guidance to follow for a meaningful and absolutely necessary recall? Thanks and regards, Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT;mailto:emc-p...@ieee.orgemc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-ps chttp://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/http://www.ieee-pses.org/
RE: First EUP Regulation implementation regarding standby power
Annex V From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of James, Chris Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 4:35 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: First EUP Regulation implementation regarding standby power http://tinyurl.com/6tkth3 = Chris - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[Bulk] RE: Requirements in Ghana
Hi Anders, You should be able to find what you’re looking for on Ghana’s National Communication Authority (NCA) website at http://www.nca.org.gh/index.asp. Ghana’s Ministry of Communication’s website might also be useful at http://www.moc.gov.gh/. IHTH. Best regards, Ron Pickard ron.pick...@intermec.com mailto:ron.pick...@intermec.com From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Anders Svensson B Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 2:56 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Requirements in Ghana Dear experts, Anyone who knows the requirements for Ghana for EMC, Product Safety, SAR, Radio, environmental etc. The product have WLAN 802-11 b/g and GSM 850/900/1800/1900 bands and UMTS band FDDI/II and V functionality. All input is welcome! Best regards Anders - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: Electrical product recall request
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Pickard, Ron Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 6:56 AM To: Scott Xe Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Electrical product recall request Scott et al, Compliance engineering is a term to describe the engineering activities to ensure that products conform to these regulations. In that aspect, compliance engineering does mimic the legal profession. Ron Pickard Ron: In companies where there is a specifically designated Compliance Engineer, what do you see as the trend in the depth of knowledge of such an engineer? Does this person hold technical responsibility for issues of safety, EMC, ROHS, etc, as you would expect of an engineer? Or is the scope so broad that the person acts more like a manager or coordinator of other specialists (designers and possibly outside vendors), more toward the lawyer end of the scale? Regards, Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com blocked::mailto:ed.pr...@cubic.com WB6WSN NARTE Certified EMC Engineer Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Applications San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 Military Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
MTBF calculation HALT method versus MIL HDBK 217 method
Dear Experts, Is it possible to do accelerated life testing and calculate MTBF through that? Are there any labs offering this service? What will be correlation between MIL HDBK 217 method of MTBF calculation and HALT method? Which one will be reliable and reasonable? Sincerely                                                          SCM Microsystems (India) Pvt. Ltd. K. Balasubramanian                                         Modules 0506, 0507 0508, D – Block, Manager – Hardware                                        South Wing, TIDEL Park, Tel : +91 44 42931391                                      #4, Rajiv Gandhi Road,(formerly Canal Bank Road) Fax :+91 44 22540029                                       Taramani, Chennai – 600113. India E-mail:kbalasubraman...@scmmicro.co.in         Web : http://scmmicro.com ‘This email and any attachment may contain confidential information and are intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s). If you have received this information in error, you are prohibited from reading, copying, distributing and using the information. If you are not a named addressee or otherwise an intended recipient you are requested to immediately notify the sender and to delete this email and all attachments from your system.’ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: First EUP Regulation implementation regarding standby power
What I find troubling in this new reg is the last line of the definition for equipment in scope..(ref art 2.1) also when marketed for non-household or non-office use; This seems to create some ambiguity with regard to the question of does this regulation apply to consumer-type equipment that happens to be integrated as a component of industrial equipment? Why do these EU parties always leave me with a hangover? Regards, Lauren Crane Product Regulatory Analyst Corporate Product EHS Lead Applied Materials Inc. Austin, TX 512 272-6540 [#922 26540] - external use - Save paper and trees! Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. James, Chris c...@dolby.co.uk Sent by: emc-p...@ieee.org 01/13/2009 06:35 AM To emc-p...@ieee.org cc Subject First EUP Regulation implementation regarding standby power http://tinyurl.com/6tkth3 http://tinyurl.com/6tkth3 Entered into force 7/1/09 If the interpretation of Annex I (3) (below) is the same as RoHS where consumer covered B2B professional products also then we have another party to go to... :-( 3. Consumer equipment Radio sets Television sets Videocameras Video recorders Hi-fi recorders Audio amplifiers Home theatre systems Musical instruments And other equipment for the purpose of recording or reproducing sound or images, including signals or other technologies for the distribution of sound and image other than by telecommunications Chris This message (including any attachments) may contain confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose. If you are not the intended recipient, delete this message. If you are not the intended recipient, disclosing, copying, distributing, or taking any action based on this message is strictly prohibited. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net mailto:emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com mailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Re: Electrical product recall request
In message 9d04b979323dcd428297dda95108893e0120c...@bb-corp-ex2.corp.cubic.cub, dated Tue, 13 Jan 2009, Price, Edward ed.pr...@cubic.com writes: In companies where there is a specifically designated Compliance Engineer, what do you see as the trend in the depth of knowledge of such an engineer? Does this person hold technical responsibility for issues of safety, EMC, ROHS, etc, as you would expect of an engineer? Such an arrangement is very likely to lead to conflict over safety and EMC issues between the Compliance Engineer and the product design engineers. Safety and EMC should be *designed in*, and I think most here would agree, so the responsibility for compliance should rest with the designers. The Compliance Engineer manages the compliance testing and the training and updating of the design engineers as standards change (and maybe improve!). Or is the scope so broad that the person acts more like a manager or coordinator of other specialists (designers and possibly outside vendors), more toward the lawyer end of the scale? With regard to RoHS and WEEE, yes, the Compliance Engineer has to ensure that designers, purchasers, quality managers and suppliers are aware of the requirements and to ensure that systems are in place to prevent violations. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Things can always get better. But that's not the only option. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: First EUP Regulation implementation regarding standby power
In message 001801c97593$6e3291e0$d600a...@tamuracorp.com, dated Tue, 13 Jan 2009, Brian O'Connell oconne...@tamuracorp.com writes: Annex V What Annex V? -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Things can always get better. But that's not the only option. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
RE: First EUP Regulation implementation regarding standby power
Lauren, I have subsequently been in contact with DEFRA the UK body overseeing EuP and whilst they cannot offer a legal binding opinion their representative has offered this: “During discussions it was also made clear that it was not the intention of this measure to capture professional equipment (although it does not specifically say this in the measure). So the key issue will be for you to decide whether your products are intended to be used in a domestic environment or whether they are intended to be installed and used by professionals.” Chris From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of lauren_cr...@amat.com Sent: 13 January 2009 15:48 To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: First EUP Regulation implementation regarding standby power What I find troubling in this new reg is the last line of the definition for equipment in scope..(ref art 2.1) also when marketed for non-household or non-office use; This seems to create some ambiguity with regard to the question of does this regulation apply to consumer-type equipment that happens to be integrated as a component of industrial equipment? Why do these EU parties always leave me with a hangover? Regards, Lauren Crane Product Regulatory Analyst Corporate Product EHS Lead Applied Materials Inc. Austin, TX 512 272-6540 [#922 26540] - external use - Save paper and trees! Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. James, Chris c...@dolby.co.uk Sent by: emc-p...@ieee.org 01/13/2009 06:35 AM To emc-p...@ieee.org cc Subject First EUP Regulation implementation regarding standby power http://tinyurl.com/6tkth3 http://tinyurl.com/6tkth3 Entered into force 7/1/09 If the interpretation of Annex I (3) (below) is the same as RoHS where consumer covered B2B professional products also then we have another party to go to... :-( 3. Consumer equipment Radio sets Television sets Videocameras Video recorders Hi-fi recorders Audio amplifiers Home theatre systems Musical instruments And other equipment for the purpose of recording or reproducing sound or images, including signals or other technologies for the distribution of sound and image other than by telecommunications Chris This message (including any attachments) may contain confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose. If you are not the intended recipient, delete this message. If you are not the intended recipient, disclosing, copying, distributing, or taking any action based on this message is strictly prohibited. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Re: First EUP Regulation implementation regarding standby power
In message of08f7b138.78ed5165-on8625753d.00566e0d-8625753d.0056c...@amat.com, dated Tue, 13 Jan 2009, lauren_cr...@amat.com writes: This seems to create some ambiguity with regard to the question of does this regulation apply to consumer-type equipment that happens to be integrated as a component of industrial equipment? It does mean that, and I don't think it's ambiguous in the case of consumer products 'adopted' for professional use. 'Professional' products NOT marketed for household use are not included, but the coupling of 'office' with 'household' in the text does create further uncertainty. First consider whether a 'stand-by' mode is really necessary. Also, provide a switch that really DOES turn everything off, including the charger for the battery-backed up clock. (;-) -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Things can always get better. But that's not the only option. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
RE: First EUP Regulation implementation regarding standby power
This reminds of a situation that occurred many years ago where the US Air Force had a contract with a computer company to supply then with hundred of thousands of PCs. Because they were to be used by the military, they only had to meet the FCC Class A emissions requirements. The problem was that as old computers were replaced by newer faster computers, many of these old computers ended up in people's homes. As interference complaints stated coming into the FCC, a change in the status quo occurred and from that time on all PCs or any product that could be used in a residential environment had to be Class B even though it was not the intended initial use or market. So whenever I see these kind of ambiguity regarding household and professional equipment, I wonder if the intent is to insure that a product likely to be used in a household meets all the desired requirements. It wasn't that many years ago it was assumed that any device with a network interface would never be used in a home. But today, many homes have networks. So, it would be difficult to identify something as professional when the definition of the type of devices used in a home is constantly changing. IMHO, The Other Brian From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John Woodgate Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 11:07 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: First EUP Regulation implementation regarding standby power In message of08f7b138.78ed5165-on8625753d.00566e0d-8625753d.0056c...@amat.com, dated Tue, 13 Jan 2009, lauren_cr...@amat.com writes: This seems to create some ambiguity with regard to the question of does this regulation apply to consumer-type equipment that happens to be integrated as a component of industrial equipment? It does mean that, and I don't think it's ambiguous in the case of consumer products 'adopted' for professional use. 'Professional' products NOT marketed for household use are not included, but the coupling of 'office' with 'household' in the text does create further uncertainty. First consider whether a 'stand-by' mode is really necessary. Also, provide a switch that really DOES turn everything off, including the charger for the battery-backed up clock. (;-) -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Things can always get better. But that's not the only option. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: First EUP Regulation implementation regarding standby power
In message 0ed66cd2c9bd0a459d54fb9119a60567d55...@mailserver.lecotc.com, dated Tue, 13 Jan 2009, Kunde, Brian brian_ku...@lecotc.com writes: So, it would be difficult to identify something as professional when the definition of the type of devices used in a home is constantly changing. Predicting the future is not now allowed in Europe, because of the lead content of the crystal balls is far in excess of RoHS limits. In many EMC situations, the same issue arises. No-one can actually stop someone installing a 10 kW variable-speed drive for his private wind-tunnel in his garden. The best the law and regulations can do is to take account of the manufacturer's intentions for the product. It's not too loose a control; if the product isn't available from sources frequented by the general public, the manufacturer is clearly not intended to sell to the general public. The odd bod who nevertheless buys one is still subject to FCC or EMC Directive requirements about actual interference. For example, until recently I had five oscilloscopes in my house.(;-) -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Things can always get better. But that's not the only option. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Predicting the Future - Re: First EUP Regulation implementation regarding standby power
Predicting the future is not now allowed in Europe, because of the lead content of the crystal balls is far in excess of RoHS limits. Thanks for that, John. You've just made my day bearable. Regards, Lauren - external use - Save paper and trees! Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk Sent by: emc-p...@ieee.org 01/13/2009 12:00 PM To Kunde, Brian brian_ku...@lecotc.com cc emc-p...@ieee.org Subject Re: First EUP Regulation implementation regarding standby power In message 0ed66cd2c9bd0a459d54fb9119a60567d55...@mailserver.lecotc.com, dated Tue, 13 Jan 2009, Kunde, Brian brian_ku...@lecotc.com writes: So, it would be difficult to identify something as professional when the definition of the type of devices used in a home is constantly changing. Predicting the future is not now allowed in Europe, because of the lead content of the crystal balls is far in excess of RoHS limits. [snip - lec] - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: First EUP Regulation implementation regarding standby power
The distinction was made, IMHO, as consumer products are more likely to be produced in large numbers, so The impact of the regulation will be larger. I believe *your* focus should be directed towards: can my design be used in such amounts that a considerable amount of otherwise spoiled energy can be saved, and can a small effort on our companies side contribute to the energy wealth of future generations and then decide if you will voluntarily meet she specs of this directive, even if you are not targeted directly. And as John says: consider whether a 'stand-by' mode is really necessary. Also, provide a switch that really DOES turn everything off, including the charger for the battery-backed up clock. (;-) And if you are convinced that any energy problem will soon be resolved by engineering (which is not unlikely), think of our current dependency of oil for producing electricity, and the costs associated with defending our interests in the middle east. I want to emphasize -dear moderators- that this is not an invitation to go Politics on this list, but can be shown to be a mere fact. Gert Gremmen Van: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] Namens Kunde, Brian Verzonden: dinsdag 13 januari 2009 18:31 Aan: John Woodgate; emc-p...@ieee.org Onderwerp: RE: First EUP Regulation implementation regarding standby power This reminds of a situation that occurred many years ago where the US Air Force had a contract with a computer company to supply then with hundred of thousands of PCs. Because they were to be used by the military, they only had to meet the FCC Class A emissions requirements. The problem was that as old computers were replaced by newer faster computers, many of these old computers ended up in people's homes. As interference complaints stated coming into the FCC, a change in the status quo occurred and from that time on all PCs or any product that could be used in a residential environment had to be Class B even though it was not the intended initial use or market. So whenever I see these kind of ambiguity regarding household and professional equipment, I wonder if the intent is to insure that a product likely to be used in a household meets all the desired requirements. It wasn't that many years ago it was assumed that any device with a network interface would never be used in a home. But today, many homes have networks. So, it would be difficult to identify something as professional when the definition of the type of devices used in a home is constantly changing. IMHO, The Other Brian From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John Woodgate Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 11:07 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: First EUP Regulation implementation regarding standby power In message of08f7b138.78ed5165-on8625753d.00566e0d-8625753d.0056c...@amat.com, dated Tue, 13 Jan 2009, lauren_cr...@amat.com writes: This seems to create some ambiguity with regard to the question of does this regulation apply to consumer-type equipment that happens to be integrated as a component of industrial equipment? It does mean that, and I don't think it's ambiguous in the case of consumer products 'adopted' for professional use. 'Professional' products NOT marketed for household use are not included, but the coupling of 'office' with 'household' in the text does create further uncertainty. First consider whether a 'stand-by' mode is really necessary. Also, provide a switch that really DOES turn everything off, including the charger for the battery-backed up clock. (;-) -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Things can always get better. But that's not the only option. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in
RE: First EUP Regulation implementation regarding standby power
Article 4 refers to the management system set out in Annex V. Jim Hulbert Pitney Bowes From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John Woodgate Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 10:54 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: First EUP Regulation implementation regarding standby power In message 001801c97593$6e3291e0$d600a...@tamuracorp.com, dated Tue, 13 Jan 2009, Brian O'Connell oconne...@tamuracorp.com writes: Annex V What Annex V? -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Things can always get better. But that's not the only option. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: First EUP Regulation implementation regarding standby power
In message 72b8947772cf0948adaa9853631663fb28537c8...@pbi-namsg-02.mgdpbi.global.pv t, dated Tue, 13 Jan 2009, Jim Hulbert jim.hulb...@pb.com writes: Article 4 refers to the management system set out in Annex V. I don't see any problem. Article 4 says: The procedure for assessing conformity referred to in Article 8(2) of Directive 2005/32/EC shall be the internal design control system set out in Annex IV to Directive 2005/32/EC or the management system set out in Annex V to Directive 2005/32/EC. Annex V is in the cited Directive. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Things can always get better. But that's not the only option. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
RE: First EUP Regulation implementation regarding standby power
So the document called COMMISSION REGULATION (EC) No 1275/2008 of 17 December 2008 is not the EuP Directive but references it, and is intended to revise the EuP Directive ? And the document called DIRECTIVE 2005/32/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL is the EuP, and contains the 'Annex V' to which the former is refering to ? From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of John Woodgate Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 11:49 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: First EUP Regulation implementation regarding standby power In message 72B8947772CF0948ADAA9853631663FB28537C8710@PBI-NAMSG-02.MGDPBI.g lobal.pv t, dated Tue, 13 Jan 2009, Jim Hulbert jim.hulb...@pb.com writes: Article 4 refers to the management system set out in Annex V. I don't see any problem. Article 4 says: The procedure for assessing conformity referred to in Article 8(2) of Directive 2005/32/EC shall be the internal design control system set out in Annex IV to Directive 2005/32/EC or the management system set out in Annex V to Directive 2005/32/EC. Annex V is in the cited Directive. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Anechoic Chamber: Pass-through vs. Bulkhead
EMC Gurus, We have a Space Saver chamber that we bought used and installed ourselves. When we installed it, we ran our antenna (signal) cabling through a pass-through along with our fiber optics. Today, someone mentioned that we ought to have at least our antenna cable connected through a bulkhead so that the cable shielding was terminated on the chamber. When we went to disassemble the chamber when we bought it, there were no bulkheads for anything. Are the bulkheads necessary? Does anyone else use a pass-through for the antenna cable? It doesn't seem to have had an effect on measurements, but I still have a lot to learn so hopefully someone can share some wisdom. Thanks, Chris Anderson - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Re: First EUP Regulation implementation regarding standby power
In message 003801c975c4$ff12c5f0$d600a...@tamuracorp.com, dated Tue, 13 Jan 2009, Brian O'Connell oconne...@tamuracorp.com writes: So the document called COMMISSION REGULATION (EC) No 1275/2008 of 17 December 2008 is not the EuP Directive but references it, Yes. and is intended to revise the EuP Directive ? No, it adds product-family specific detail to the general texts in the Directive. It supplements the Directive, rather than revising it. And the document called DIRECTIVE 2005/32/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL is the EuP, and contains the 'Annex V' to which the former is refering to ? Yes. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Things can always get better. But that's not the only option. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: Anechoic Chamber: Pass-through vs. Bulkhead
In message 44724788633d3042a64174bea5c59f3004bc2...@ntxboimbx21.micron.com, dated Tue, 13 Jan 2009, cmander...@micron.com writes: Today, someone mentioned that we ought to have at least our antenna cable connected through a bulkhead so that the cable shielding was terminated on the chamber. When we went to disassemble the chamber when we bought it, there were no bulkheads for anything. Are the bulkheads necessary? Probably. Apart from RF considerations, there is a safety issue. If there were a high-current fault near the chamber, there might be a hazardous voltage developed between the shield of the antenna cable and the items grounded to the chamber. In USA, the voltage might be more hazardous to the equipment than to any humans in the area. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Things can always get better. But that's not the only option. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: Anechoic Chamber: Pass-through vs. Bulkhead
Any metal conductor penetrating the test chamber enclosure must be filtered or grounded in order to avoid polluting the test chamber ambient. With coax, you use a grounded feedthrough connector to achieve that. Failing that, you can use a stuffing tube type feedthrough, but you must peal back the insulation over the coax and stuff enough steel or bronze wool to adequately ground the shield. Or use two pieces of coax connected via barrel type adapters within the stuffing tube and make sure you ground the barrel(s). Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: cmander...@micron.com List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:50:15 -0700 To: emc-p...@ieee.org Conversation: Anechoic Chamber: Pass-through vs. Bulkhead Subject: Anechoic Chamber: Pass-through vs. Bulkhead EMC Gurus, We have a Space Saver chamber that we bought used and installed ourselves. When we installed it, we ran our antenna (signal) cabling through a pass-through along with our fiber optics. Today, someone mentioned that we ought to have at least our antenna cable connected through a bulkhead so that the cable shielding was terminated on the chamber. When we went to disassemble the chamber when we bought it, there were no bulkheads for anything. Are the bulkheads necessary? Does anyone else use a pass-through for the antenna cable? It doesn't seem to have had an effect on measurements, but I still have a lot to learn so hopefully someone can share some wisdom. Thanks, Chris Anderson - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: MTBF calculation HALT method versus MIL HDBK 217 method
HALT has no veracity for MTBF; but use of the process can effect MTBF calculations where the standard is other than MH217. From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of kbalasubraman...@scmmicro.co.in Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 7:42 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: MTBF calculation HALT method versus MIL HDBK 217 method Dear Experts, Is it possible to do accelerated life testing and calculate MTBF through that? Are there any labs offering this service? What will be correlation between MIL HDBK 217 method of MTBF calculation and HALT method? Which one will be reliable and reasonable? Sincerely SCM Microsystems (India) Pvt. Ltd. K. Balasubramanian - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
RE: Anechoic Chamber: Pass-through vs. Bulkhead
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of cmander...@micron.com Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 1:50 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Anechoic Chamber: Pass-through vs. Bulkhead EMC Gurus, We have a Space Saver chamber that we bought used and installed ourselves. When we installed it, we ran our antenna (signal) cabling through a pass-through along with our fiber optics. Today, someone mentioned that we ought to have at least our antenna cable connected through a bulkhead so that the cable shielding was terminated on the chamber. When we went to disassemble the chamber when we bought it, there were no bulkheads for anything. Are the bulkheads necessary? Does anyone else use a pass-through for the antenna cable? It doesn't seem to have had an effect on measurements, but I still have a lot to learn so hopefully someone can share some wisdom. Thanks, Chris Anderson The traditional technique with a shielded enclosure was to have a specially designated penetration port. This was usually a thick plate of aluminum or tin-plated steel, about 16 x 16 x 1/4, mounted to the side of the chamber like a picture on a wall. The plate covered a 12 x 12 hole cut into the chamber wall and was bolted around its perimeter to chamber wall. There's nothing magical about those dimensions, they are simply convenient. This provided an access panel that could be customized for the special needs of an EUT. Did the EUT need cooling water, visual observation, optical stimulus, compressed air, a waveguide port, big multiconductor I/O cabling; you could machine and equip a panel as needed without ripping into the chamber itself. You could keep several special port covers for recurring unique jobs. The penetration port was a way of organizing your use of the chamber. Thus, there is no real need to use one. You are free to run every penetration as you want, but the many possible problems with this (control of grounds, preservation of shielding effectiveness, crosstalk, safety) will probably make you wish you had used designated penetration ports. (I have 3 penetration ports on my chamber, one primarily for emission testing, another primarily for immunity testing, and the third as an I/O port to a second smaller shielded chamber typically used to contain the EUT support equipment. I once built a penetration port for the transfer of jet turbine gas out of a chamber.) More to your specific question, John Woodgate has pointed out the issue of safety (RF can travel along the ungrounded shield, possibly toasting you or your equipment or radiating into the environment, although this is more of an issue in military testing than in commercial testing). The ungrounded coax cable could just as well allow external RF (radio stations or noise from your own test and support equipment) to get into the chamber and be taken for emissions from the EUT. Ken Javor talked about my favorite technique of grounding the coax without breaking the continuity by use of a packing gland or stuffing tube, but he didn't say why you might want to go to this trouble. Let me add a few words here. The easiest way to ground your coax as it penetrates the chamber wall (hopefully at a penetration port) is to use a female-female bulkhead feedthrough fitting. These are cheap and easily replaced when worn or damaged. The down side is that they are always a slight impedance discontinuity, and will create loss at extremely high frequencies and with high power, present a small concern of voltage breakdown or localized heating. If you use the packing gland method, you do not break the coax structure, and eliminate a pair of male-female connections. I use this on an ultra low-loss coax that I use for emission testing up to 18 GHz. The same techniques would also be a good choice for conveying high-power RF into the chamber (but those of you who are pushing 3 kW into your chamber have probably already heard of this technique). Bottom line is; ground that coax, no matter how you do it (well, don't use a pigtail strap with alligator clips). It's simply good engineering practice. Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com blocked::mailto:ed.pr...@cubic.com WB6WSN NARTE Certified EMC Engineer Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Applications San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 Military Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send
