nential graph of EMC costs versus
development time ?
If you need proof (for authorities, or for yourself), nothing can
replace the actual test.
Gert Gremmen
On 6-4-2024 0:47, Lfresearch wrote:
Hi folks,
I would like to advise a client at where to draw th
The way I understand this is that if we are in the USA, then our 240 volts is
likely Bi-Phase, not like Europe which has the Line swinging about the neutral
by 240 volts. In that case you can use a V LISN, or two single phase LISN’s.
In the USA with a Bi-Phase you need 3 LISN’s. When I test
every combination?
Or, are there some guidelines about where we draw the line of what to test and
what can be claimed as similarity?
Off list responses are welcome too.
Thanks,
Derek Walton
LFResearch/SSCLabs.
-
This message
Hi Folks,
does anyone know who can still perform repairs to the NARDA EMR-200 main body
unit these days please?
I have one that appears to be dead.
Thanks,
Derek.
-
This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering
Hi Patrick, I’d be happy to participate.. just give me a heads up when.Cheers,Derek.Sent from my iPadOn Jan 14, 2024, at 9:58 AM, Patrick wrote:Is anyone interested in a discussion surrounding use of modulation during radiated immunity/susceptibility?I'm developing some new project-specific
Hi BrianI have done a number of comparisons between 3 m and 10 m test distances at many labs. In almost every case below 100 MHz the 3 m case produces worst results. So it would be reasonable to assume that if you moved out to 10 m you would have a better passing margin. Additionally, I’d like to
Patrick,Put me down as an MU abolitionist. I don’t see it adding any value, just workload and cost. I’d like to see it gone completely Yes I know others don’t agree, such is life. Derek Sent from my iPhoneOn Jul 14, 2023, at 3:30 AM, Patrick wrote:I've been busy last couple of days and only now
Good day everyone, I hope this finds you well.
We have been pursuing ISO 17025 accreditation for an EMC test facility and one
standard on our scope is IEC 61326-3-1. We have been trying to avoid using
standards that are not EN’s so is there any reason we should have both IEC
61326-3-1 and EN
Hi folks,
I’ve been asked to test a light fixture that has the ability to be daisy
chained up to 8 units.
When I run conducted emissions, I’m wondering if I need to insist on having 8
units plugged in at once i.e. fully populated, OR, can I just test one fixture
at a time since that’s how the
countries and was in direct reply to John M's
> question!
>
> John E Allen
> W London, UK
>
> Get BlueMail for Android <https://bluemail.me/>
> On 9 Nov 2022, at 19:06, Lfresearch
> <00734758d943-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org
> <mailto:00734758d
Not the same analogy.
Sorry.
> On Nov 7, 2022, at 1:39 PM, Richard Nute wrote:
>
>
> “It’s a fact the CE mark adds way more cost than the return on investment of
> performance improvement.”
>
> Reminds me of a marketing manager saying to me that safety (and, I assume,
> safety
ohn Mcbain wrote:
>
> Hello Lfresearch -
>
> Would you please explain to me how you reconcile "removal of unnecessary
> trade barriers" and "encouraging for England [note: actually UK] to exit from
> the EU"?
> Those views seem to be mutually incompatibl
I think most people have learned to not listen to MSM, but rely on individuals
in groups like this to further knowledge. It’s highly beneficial to have
working members, most without a dog in the fight, in multiple economic zones.
That said, and to counterpoint a different position, I was
Hi folks, I’ve been asked a few questions on Zuken that I’m not sure how to
answer. Anyone familiar with the package? In particular the design rules
checking function.
Thanks,
Derek
-
This message is from the IEEE Product Safety
I have wondered about something similar.
If I use a 6 way power strip, I’m assuming all the leakage currents for
anything plugged in sum. Is that correct? I recall getting a few trips when I
used a power strip and It’s only just twigged that might be why.
Cheers,
Derek.
Sent from my iPad
>
You know, I’m curious what is meant by a conformity assessment by a UK body?
What equipment requires this and what value does it add?
Thanks
Derek.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 4, 2022, at 9:39 PM, Amund Westin wrote:
>
>
> Thanks!
> So, currently we can just use our existing CE DoC
Hi Chas, thanks, thats super.
Figure 7 is very close ( actually close enough ) to what I want to illustrate.
If you’re at the show, coffee is on me!
Take care,
Derek.
> On Jul 26, 2022, at 9:56 AM, Charles Grasso wrote:
>
> Simulation of Shielding Effectiveness of Materials using CST Studio
Good day folks,
I’m looking for public domain data that shows the impact of stuffing a wire
through a faraday shield. We all know what happens, but I was hoping for a
simulation or test data so I can give quantitive numbers rather than
generalities.
Any suggestions gladly received.
Thanks,
If you see spikes when you rotate the turntable, it usually means there’s
something wrong. There’s usually a PE type ground, that unless the used copper
terminals to bond aluminum structure, and you have periods of moisture, then
that should be good.
Just about every turntable I’ve seen has
Good morning folks
I have a question or two about suppressing the EMC ramifications of a multi
circuit ignition system
Does anyone have a good grasp on the various ways of suppressing noise that
might couple into a VHF radio some 10 to 12 feet away. I’m trying to weigh
benefits vs the pain
Hi Chas,
You may want to try adding conductive wallpaper. I have seen this to be very
effective. Indeed, I have seen this work well just using commercial baking foil
and some wall paper paste.
It’s a fun project.
Cheers,
Derek.
> On Feb 2, 2022, at 1:44 PM, Charles Grasso wrote:
>
>
LOL Ken, maybe if you want to listen to AM Radio you probably shouldn’t be
driving a Tesla. ;-)
I have to say, personally, I’m on Teslas side here. They realize that other
means exist to get radio stations anywhere, if you really want that.
As long as my car gets internet, I’m happy.
Have a
We have tested a number of EATON breakers and they did very well at industrial
levels
Cheers
Derek
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 4, 2021, at 8:43 AM, Ken Javor wrote:
>
> Can anyone out there state whether such breakers respond only to mains
> frequency leakage currents, or whether they
Good morning folks.
I’m helping a not-for-profit group with a remote electronics installation at
high altitude, and I have asked them to perform some in-situ ESD testing.
I would like them to get a battery powered ESD gun and the Keytech Minzap fits
the bill. Does anyone have one lying
Hi All,
not to steal from Davids needs, but I’m looking for an MIL STD 461 EMI
technician that’s a US Citizen for the Oklahoma City area.
I don’t have a job positing yet, but please feel free to contact me off list
and I’ll brief more whats being looked for.
Now back to Davids needs,
Thanks,
Hi Chas,
Sorry to be late to the table, always happens when there's no food on it ;-)
Over the last 30 years in our lab it has varied. Starting out around when the
CE mark first hit products tended to be noisy, but the circuits were running
much slower the net result being a likelihood of
Hi Ken,
I don’t know that Company, but the EMC Shop has taken of that part of my
business these days: I just certify the rooms now. Age is a pain in the tush,
but better than the alternative.
www.theemcshop.com
Cheers,
Derek.
-Original Message-
From: Ken Javor
To: EMC-PSTC
Sent: Fri,
In a message dated 11/25/2002 2:48:34 PM Central Standard Time,
ghery.pet...@intel.com writes:
Fischer Custom Communications has developed a small clamp that meets the
CISPR 22 requirements while costing significantly less money than an IEC
61000-4-6 isolation clamp.
I guess time to
In a message dated 11/25/2002 7:52:58 AM Central Standard Time,
kimb...@post7.tele.dk writes:
Hi all
Sorry to bring this matter up again.
I have now a list of 21 countries requirements for BlueTooth products
national type approvals, and still need 4 more which I can't find. Can
some one
Thanks everyone, we found his Rock :-)
Derek.
Hi all,
I'm trying to reach an old friend of mine Chass Grasso. Does anyone have an
idea of his whereabouts?
Thanks,
Derek Walton
attachment: 5937_notebook_trioffer1[1].jpg
In a message dated 11/13/2002 8:07:17 AM Central Standard Time,
gui...@cae.com writes:
I have an IFI (think it stands for Instruments For Industry) E-field probe,
purchased years ago. It still works fine. It comes with various probe tips
(antennas) tuned for low/high V/m, and it has its
HI Richard,
Running the risk of being commercial here... You know Schaffner maybe coming
out with their own probe?
Cheers,
Derek.
And you seem to have forgotten that Schaffner also have products that compete
for these test too Frank. lol
Derek.
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In a message dated 10/30/2002 10:54:53 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jwise...@printronix.com writes:
I have a copy of 61000-3-11 and it says that you must test to 61000-3-3. If
you fail this test you can come back and test to 61000-3-11. Other than that
the scope is meant for
equipment
I'm currently renting a Schaffner NSG435 ESD Gun and like the
features. Would anyone be able to provide me with some leads where I might
be able to get a deal (used is OK) on a comparable piece of equipment to
purchase? I find the continuous feature to be a necessity as well as the
In a message dated 9/24/02 9:47:03 AM Central Daylight Time,
jrbar...@iglou.com writes:
I agree with Warren that electrostatic discharge (ESD) testing is the
most important single immunity test that you can run during
development
Here I beg to differ, Fast transient Burst has been the most
Hi Warren,
My charge includes the test reports... I've made it so the data collection
process writes the report for me. All I have to do is modify a generic
front section. Total time about 3 hours...
I'm sure other labs have done similar processes.
Cheers,
Derek.
In a message dated 9/23/02 9:05:08 PM Central Daylight Time,
war...@comfortjets.com writes:
A suite of testing runs about $6000 for immunity for ITE equipment to
meet EN 55 024 without even talking about the Radiated Immunity
requirements equipment and a chamber. You are going to likely
In a message dated 9/23/02 4:47:15 PM Central Daylight Time,
ai...@gulftel.com writes:
The shutters stay closed whenever the socket has no plug present to
prevent contact with the L or N pins. I suppose this additional protection
is considered necessary for children in the UK.
Not
Hi all,
I've been approached and asked to advise on just how much to test... remember
I'm a test lab so my answers may be biased.
My client has three designs, the only difference is the transformer.
A 24 V version for low voltage control systems ( about 49.5% sales volume )
A 120 V version for
Hi,
anyone have a good source for relays for the chattering relay test in DO-160
or MIL-STD 461?
Thanks,
Derek.
HI,
I'm testing a product that's switching at 50 kHz, modulated by a 1 kHz
signal.
I'm getting a great deal of noise between 9 kHz to 13 kHz, I think is
related. Specifically, it goes when I stop the modulation... Any ideas on
ways to clean this up. Filtering seems to be effective, but HUGE!
Hi all,
I'm looking to rent a pulse generator to perform pulse testing in accordance
with the 1 MHz waveshape in MIL-STD 461 E CS116. Can anyone suggest a source.
Thanks,
Derek N. Walton
Owner,
L. F. Research EMC Design and Test Facility
12790 Route 76,
Poplar Grove,
IL 61065
Hi all,
I'm looking for ideas on interpreting the data I've taken on my EMScan. For
anyone not familier with EMScan, it maps the currents flowing on a PWB using
3 dimensional loops under a 5 mm square grid.
I have taken a number of charts at different frequencies that show banding
across the
Hi Ken,
I'm open to this, but the cables that pass through ( there could be as many
as 10 ), all have their own braids, and are impedance matched. I really don't
want to just squish them together and hope it makes good contact all
around Not sure if I'd change the cables impedance ( they
Hi all,
I'm faced with a situation where a number ( up to 10 ) of small ( 3mm )
shielded wire pais come together at a connector. I need to provide a
peripheral termination for each shield. Has anyone come across and off the
shelf solution for this? Alternatively, a good way of achieving this?
HI all,
this is possibly not the place, but can anyone confirm if EN 292 -1 and -2
has been updated?
Thanks,
Derek.
Chris,
I've made, in small quantities, mains leads with distributed ferrites. I did
that to avoid the big clunky wart on the cable.
Derek N. Walton
Owner,
L. F. Research EMC Design and Test Facility
12790 Route 76,
Poplar Grove,
IL 61065
www.lfresearch.com
In a message dated 6/7/2002 5:01:43 PM Central Daylight Time,
kro...@yahoo.com writes:
If the EN 55024 calls for 1,2 kV for surge on the AC,
does this mean we have to repeat the test @ .5, 1kV
too? For ESD, 8 air, 4 cont should really be 8,6,4,2
air and 4,2,1 cont??
This is indeed the
Hi all,
I have a microwave sweeper, 400 MHz to 18 GHz I believe, that I'd like to
find another home for. Anyone interested before I put it on e-bay?
Thanks,
Derek N. Walton
Owner,
L. F. Research EMC Design and Test Facility
12790 Route 76,
Poplar Grove,
IL 61065
www.lfresearch.com
Hi,
has anyone any idea where I can get the lamp fixtures illustrated in Fig 5a-f
of EN55015.
Thanks,
Derek,
In a message dated 4/19/02 5:01:40 PM Central Daylight Time,
j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk writes:
It might be helpful to have an idea of what sort of filter and what
frequencies are involved, also the permissible deviations from the ideal
response.
I'm looking for Ceramics, 0.01 through 1
Hi all,
I'm designing a filter that has to live and work with an Ambient temp of 180
C. Does anyone have suggestions as to component vendors that I could contact
for parts?
Thanks,
Derek Walton.
L F Research
Ed,
Use an accredited cal lab. of course, it should be A2LA ;-)
Seriously, they have a list of suitable labs on their website
www.a2la.org
Derek Walton
Someone recently asked for 100 kV ESD. SInce I work for Schaffner I thought
I'd ask the factory.. Well, hope this helps whoever..
Derek Walton
---BeginMessage---
I have spoken to John Hardwick at Culham Labs, he says that they can
generate 100kV but he would need much more info before he can
Bob,
before you go round the houses on this, I suggest you talk to Trace at A2LA.
He can tell you what a lab should really be doing IMHO, a spreadsheet is
all you really need.
tmcintu...@a2la.org
Best regards,
Derek Walton
Hi all,
I'm looking for as copy of the RS NRVD power meter manual, anyone have one,
or have a suggestion where one could be obtained?
Thanks,
Derek Walton
HI Susan,
we may be of help, what specifically do you want to know?
Derek Walton
Andrew,
Normally equipment on aircraft have to meet at least DO-160, which requires
emissions and immunity both. Sometimes an Aircraft Manufacturer will have
their own. Boeings is D6-16050-4 I believe.
If you've only been asked for FCC you are getting off lightly...
Derek.
Hi,
When I set the Conducted immunity test up for folks I ALWAYS add an
attenuator on the front end of the spectrum analyser. Typically I use a 25
watt 10 dB pad followed by a 20 dB 1 watt pad. I use a good quality
attenuator, and if accuracy is really critical, I characterise them and
Hi all,
I'm trying to model a common mode choke in Micro-sim. Has anyone tried this?
Failing that, any suggestion on how to model one in Spice, possibly using
magnetic models?
Thanks in advance.
Derek.
Hi all,
I like to use a spectrum analyser more for diagnostics, and a receiver for
compliance work.
Of course I'm biased, but the Schaffner receiver currently covers 1 GHz, and
the new version about to hit the streets goes to around 20 GHz. Both are
CISPR 16 compliant. I personally feel
Hi all,
Johns Phone number is 1-800-367-5566 Ext 225
Derek Walton
Bob,
the Schaffner preamp goes to 3 GHz I believe,
Derek.
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To cancel your
Jennifer,
I have instructed those clients I deal with to test the input as follows:
Get a transformer thats typical for your unit, and apply the surge to the
input of it. Keep the leads short.
By doing this you have made an attempt to met the standard. And, yes I know
it's not perfect, but it
Mike,
I don't go with you on this one...
0 implies nothing ( prehaps 0 ac ) ... therefore the 0th harmonic is
dc???
if a squarewave is made up of odd harmonics, we would have to rethink that,
correct?
Derek.
---
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Hi Kevin,
we too can achieve high fields, currently about 80 v/m is our limit. Again,
you may want to talk more offline
Best regards,
Derek.
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Can anyone remind me what Standards require the 1.4 to 2.0 GHz Radiated
Immunity Test?
Thanks,
Derek Walton.
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Alas,
you forget that there is a world outside of PC's and Coms;-
Derek.
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To
Hi all,
I have an EMScan system that I used for debugging boards. I have mixed
feelings, but for somethings it really helps. If anyone would like their
board scanned to see if it would help them, let me know off line: I'm really
cheap;-
As for high frequency, the resolution of the grid
George,
I did a number of experiments on 15 monitors for a machine HMI. They are
indeed quiet, but there is quite a difference between manufacturers.
Most of the problems I had to fix were related to leakage through the display
from circuitry behind it.
Derek.
Indeed, Schaffner has just installed a 45 kVA 3-phase system in the USA.
Derek Walton
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Hi all,
I think this is OK, tell me if not!
Schaffner has put out a series of colour wall charts. There are 4 covering
emissions, immunity and automotive test requirements. There are Adobe Acrobat
versions, or there are 0.7m by 1m paper versions.
The Adobe Acrobat version can be downloaded
Hi all,
since the question has been asked, I feel oblighed to offer that Schaffner is
stepping up to the plate for the Harmonics and flicker requirement, we've
just completed installation of a 50 kVA system... but we have smaller;-
Not wanting to upset list members with advertising,
You could always use the worlds best kept secret, a Schaffner EMI receiver...
There are 2, both fully CISPR compliant.
Derek Walton.
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Brian,
my concern with your statement would be suggesting use of a NAMAS accredited
lab Why not A2LA or other body.
I know of a number of great cal labs with no accreditation
Derek Walton
---
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Hi Captain,
You will be able to when we finally document what we're up to. There is a
potential patent in the way we do the testing.
The bad side is not that we can't disclose it yet, but that we're not in a
position to generate revenue from it...;-
Maybe by the time we meet in CA this
Ken,
a jig like you describe was made and marketed by Elgal in the USA. It was
called a SET 19 I believe.
Derek.
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Antonio,
When I was a little younger, we tested a bunch of panels to help determine the
make up of an aircraft structure. Our panels were about 10 by 18.
We did the testing by putting the panel in the shared wall between two shield
rooms, creating a field in one, then measuring the field in
John,
you may want to take a look at Schaffners offering, I really like their
software and they are addressing A14. Call Greg Senko 603-642-4694
I believe HP are getting out of this market, so you may find some of their
equipment going quite cheap.
You may also find some other folks
In a message dated 1/16/01 7:09:38 AM Pacific Standard Time, ral...@igs.net
writes:
What it boils down to Chris is the lack of immunity of the consumer
equipment contributes to degradation of the intended function.
Ralph,
I've made this point to Art Wall of the FCC many times, he does not
Hi,
could anyone tell me in which of the following documents I can find the EMC
requirements for Prox switches?
EN 50227:1997
Control circuit devices and switching elements proximity sensors, d.c.
interface for proximity sensors and switching amplifiers (NAMUR)
EN 60947-5-2:1998
Hi all,
has anyone been involved with testing T1 lines for conducted emissions in
accordance with CISPR 22, and is prepared to share their experiences?
Thanks,
Derek Walton.
---
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Technical
Hi all,
I'm looking to perform Lightning testing to RTCA DO-160, and I'm not finding
a lot of test equipment out there. In fact the best is from Solar with a 1 to
2 month lead time.
I like the equipment, but is there any suggestions on other potential
vendors, or on how to build my own?
Hi all,
let me bring a different perspective. In the aircraft world we have a
lightning tests that stress interface wiring travelling some distance WRT
local wiring.
The reason we do this is because when lighting strikes the plane, the
fuselarge(?) carries MANY amps, and there is a voltage
Hi all,
I have a product to test which comes with its own wiring harness. Several of
the leads are not really long enough to make it through the FTB capacitive
coupling clamp. Any thoughts on how to test these lines?
1) Extending them just for this test
2) Using what length there is
3) Not
Gary,
you make this statement...
Besides I have never seen a cost impact on using an accredited lab, and
knowing that my test lab reads this forum, I had better not see one (Morning,
Paul and Jim), so it just doesn't seem prudent to me not to use an accredited
lab
I charge $600/day for
Ghery,
in your reply it reads as though an accredited lab is required. I want to
make sure it is clear that for compliance with the EMC Directive it IS NOT
the case.
Use of an accredited lab may make life easier, but, I reiterate, it is not
required.
Best regards,
Derek Walton
Hi folks,
not long ago, there was some descussion on modules for passive power factor
correction. We have an application of around 150 watts that is a borderline
fail, and the addition of a small module would get us by until a new PS design
is developed from scratch.
Can anyone suggest
I know Elite in Chicago have been looking into Automotive testing, give Ray
Klouda a call.
Derek.
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Hi,
I'm looking in to the make Vs. buy issues with the SAE Tri-Plate Line. Has
anyone got experience that they would be prepared to share on which way to go?
Thanks,
Derek.
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**
***MEETING ANNOUNCEMENT***
IEEE EMC SOCIETY CHICAGO CHAPTER OCTOBER MEETING
WHEN: Wednesday, October 25
7:00 Social, Refreshments
Jim,
I suggest that you get a hold of Daren Valentine at A2LA, they do a great
course on Uncertainty.
I did attend the C63 course and was not impressed at all.
Derek Walton
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Hi,
does anyone have a SPICE model for an MOV?
Thanks,
Derek.
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majord...@ieee.org
with the single
Lisa,
I recently discussed this concept with Norm Provost ( he was instrumental in
the preparation of 1326 ), and I'm not sure that we agree but he is the
Guru.
We have taken the definition of network to mean devices sharing the same
source of power. For example, on a large machine, a
Tony,
we have an EMScan, and found it to be of limited use. If you have a board
with components that protect peripheral interfaces, you really need to test
with the interfaces present in the same fashion that you would run a Qual
test. A precompliance facility does a better job than EMScan
Chris,
I've been doing a similar test for years, only I use a pin solderd to about 2
feet of wire. This way I don't actually touch the circuit myself.
FYI,
Derek.
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Richard,
at the risk of pushing my own barrow
L F Research is preparing to host a 2 day course on EMC Engineering ( 1st
week in Nov. ). This course will focus more on the lessons learnt during our
last year of engineering and testing designs that came into our facility
Very much a
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