Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[Marcus Bowman]

On 31 Jan 2016, at 05:03, Chris Albertson wrote:

> Yes.  Sorry that was a typo, autocorrected.   But actually the subscription
> model of paying for software is the same.Microsoft is doing  this with
> Office 360 too.   All  of these companies are looking to do the same
> things, even out there cash flow with reliable monthly payments form
> customers and to offer cloud data storage so your data is not tied to one
> specific PC.
> 

It also makes it very difficult for users to stop paying the subs, because they 
can't then use the software, so previous work is lost, I think.

Marcus

> On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 8:45 PM,  wrote:
> 
>> To clarify…  This is not an Adobe app.  The company is Autodesk, same
>> company that did Autocad and Inventor, etc etc….
>> -Tom
>> 
>>> On Jan 30, 2016, at 11:33 PM, Chris Albertson 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> As I said, running this app as I type...  Yes you can sign up for free
>> use
>>> under one of two cases
>>> 1) Student or Educator, gets three free years and can sign up again after
>>> that
>>> 2) Business that does under $100K per year gets one free year then can
>> sign
>>> up again.
>>> 
>>> So I yes you only owe them money if you use this to run a business that
>>> makes over $100K.  In which case $300 is not much.
>>> 
>>> This is not really a "cloud app".  It runs like the other Adobe apps.
>>> This means the app itself, the program is just a normal program that runs
>>> on your local computer.  But the DATA or at lest copies of the data can
>>> exist on Adobe's cloud storage.This is very good because it means you
>>> can access it from any place in the world and so can your co-workers.
>>> 
>>> This would be the app to use it say a group of people wanted to design a
>>> "open source" machine part.  Like maybe a CNC conversion kit for a
>> popular
>>> mill, or an open source 3D printer.  Anyone could "improve" the design
>> and
>>> if the improvement turns out to not be so good then the version control
>>> system could back out the change.  You can't do this so easy if the data
>>> lives inside one PC in one person's office.   I think you can keep local
>>> data too if you like.  I's still playing with it.
>>> 
>>> But do NOT think of this as a "cloud app".  It is NOT browser based, not
>>> web based.  It's runs local as any other apps does.
>>> 
>>> There does appear to be a learning curve.  This is an industrial strength
>>> product and I've had it for all of 20 minutes so far.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 8:04 PM, Chris Albertson <
>> albertson.ch...@gmail.com >
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 
 It seems that Fusion 360 is in the Mac "App Store" for free.  It may be
 cloud based but it is also a "real" app that runs on a Mac.  (They might
 have a Windows version too but I have not looked.)
 
 OK I said "free".  No, sorry, a correction, The app is free but it does
 not work without a "membership".  You can buy different levels of
 "membership" starting at $39 per month or $300 per year.  Only the
>> first 30
 days is free.  I'm looking at the App as I type this.
 
 That said, it looks really good:
 
  - A big company that is NOT going away is behind this (Adobe)
  - It does ,Surface, Mesh, Parametric and Solid modeling and will do
  organic shape like a guitar neck or car body as well as simple things
  - It holds the data and allows people to collaborate from different
  locations on a design.  It will handle version control and multiple
>> users
  working on the same designs
  - Users can extend it using Java
  - Can output to a 3 axis mill, 3D Printer or even printed drawings
 
 
 But $39 per month will add up over time.  This is the model Adobe
>> has
 gone with for their other apps like Photoshop and the like, you buy a
 subscription.   It is a good deal if you make money  with Adobe
>> software.
 Looks like I can use this for 30 days.
 
 Here is a link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/fusion-360
 
 
 On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 11:03 AM,  wrote:
 
> I too am a Mac user.  Up until recently I have been using Geomagic
>> Design
> (formerly Alibre Design) for CAD and mostly Sheetcam for CAM.  Both of
> these apps are Windows based.  I run Windows7 as an application on
>> MacOS -
> as god intended ;-)  with Parallels.  Geomagic and Sheetcam are pretty
>> much
> the only thing I run under Windows.
> 
> A few months ago when I read that Fusion had released their turning CAM
> and made Fusion 360 free for enthusiasts and small businesses I gave it
> another try (had played with early beta but found it lacking).  I have
>> now
> begun to use Fusion 360 almost exclusively.  I have most recently been
> making parts for a cnc lathe so I haven’t 

Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[Marcus Bowman]

On 31 Jan 2016, at 04:56, Chris Albertson wrote:

> This is what I get for typing while I'm looking at the app, rather than
> after using it for a while.   I got to it using it via a different rout.
> For Mac users getting it from the Apple Mac Store is better than
> downloading from the Autodesk web site.  Apple will manage software updates
> automatically and it will run on all my Apple computers, even ones I buy
> years later.

Note that it only runs on newer Macs:
<>
Not so handy for us users of older G4s etc. No different from many other bits 
of software, like OnShape, which won't run either, despite being cloud-based.

Marcus


>  The terms of use may be a little different if you get it from
> the app store.
> 
> Now to work through some on-line tutorials..
> 
> On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 8:29 PM,  wrote:
> 
>> Chris,
>> Go here: http://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/overview
>> Download, sign up, and if you are a small business making less than $100k
>> per year (I think that is the number), or a hobbiest you get a 1 year (and
>> renewable) license for no charge.
>> -Tom
>> .
>>> On Jan 30, 2016, at 11:04 PM, Chris Albertson 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> It seems that Fusion 360 is in the Mac "App Store" for free.  It may be
>>> cloud based but it is also a "real" app that runs on a Mac.  (They might
>>> have a Windows version too but I have not looked.)
>>> 
>>> OK I said "free".  No, sorry, a correction, The app is free but it does
>> not
>>> work without a "membership".  You can buy different levels of
>> "membership"
>>> starting at $39 per month or $300 per year.  Only the first 30 days is
>>> free.  I'm looking at the App as I type this.
>>> 
>>> That said, it looks really good:
>>> 
>>>  - A big company that is NOT going away is behind this (Adobe)
>>>  - It does ,Surface, Mesh, Parametric and Solid modeling and will do
>>>  organic shape like a guitar neck or car body as well as simple things
>>>  - It holds the data and allows people to collaborate from different
>>>  locations on a design.  It will handle version control and multiple
>> users
>>>  working on the same designs
>>>  - Users can extend it using Java
>>>  - Can output to a 3 axis mill, 3D Printer or even printed drawings
>>> 
>>> 
>>> But $39 per month will add up over time.  This is the model Adobe has
>>> gone with for their other apps like Photoshop and the like, you buy a
>>> subscription.   It is a good deal if you make money  with Adobe software.
>>> Looks like I can use this for 30 days.
>>> 
>>> Here is a link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/fusion-360
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 11:03 AM,  wrote:
>>> 
 I too am a Mac user.  Up until recently I have been using Geomagic
>> Design
 (formerly Alibre Design) for CAD and mostly Sheetcam for CAM.  Both of
 these apps are Windows based.  I run Windows7 as an application on
>> MacOS -
 as god intended ;-)  with Parallels.  Geomagic and Sheetcam are pretty
>> much
 the only thing I run under Windows.
 
 A few months ago when I read that Fusion had released their turning CAM
 and made Fusion 360 free for enthusiasts and small businesses I gave it
 another try (had played with early beta but found it lacking).  I have
>> now
 begun to use Fusion 360 almost exclusively.  I have most recently been
 making parts for a cnc lathe so I haven’t played with the milling CAM
>> yet,
 but do intend to.  After months of using it I believe I am not going to
 renew my maintenance of Geomagic Design.   I have to say that I was very
 reluctant to use a cloud-based application but I am quite pleased with
 Fusion 360 and have never had issues relating to it’s cloud-based model
 (you can do most things when offline as well).  I am constantly amazed
>> at
 the features in the software as well as the integrated HSMWorks-based
>> CAM
 software that is available for free in this package.   It is also
 constantly being improved and updated, they do a feature and bug
>> release at
 least once a month. sometime twice a month.
 
 I also infrequently use OnShape (also cloud based) and am very impressed
 with their collaboration features and rapid updates as well.  OnShape is
 CAD only and doesn’t have free integrated CAM so I have been using it
>> less
 and less but occasionally use it with colleagues to work on some things.
 You can purchase commercial CAM packages for it.
 
 I would highly recommend you check out Fusion 360.
 -Tom
 
> On Jan 30, 2016, at 12:03 PM, Chris Albertson <
>> albertson.ch...@gmail.com>
 wrote:
> 
> What are people here using to create G-code?   I am looking for
>> options.
> 
> I'm new to CNC and trying to develop a work flow.  I'm making small
>> parts
> (most fit in a 3" cube)  for robot 

Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[Marcus Bowman]

On 31 Jan 2016, at 05:27, tom-...@bgp.nu wrote:

>> On Jan 30, 2016, at 11:56 PM, Chris Albertson  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> For Mac users getting it from the Apple Mac Store is better than downloading 
>> from the Autodesk web site.Apple will manage software updates 
>> automatically and it will run on all my Apple computers, even ones I buy 
>> years later.
> 
> 
> I would say it is very much debatable if getting it from the Apple App store 
> is “better” than from Autodesk directly.  The updates to Fusion 360 are very 
> much behind on the app store version because Autodesk has to go through the 
> Apple vetting procedures for every release there.  They are updating more 
> frequently than Apple has been able to keep up with. Apple isn’t "managing 
> software updates automatically” as much as delaying Autodesk from releasing 
> updates quickly and informing you via the App Store application when they 
> (Apple) have finally gotten around to censoring the offensive comments in the 
> code and making it available (having been involved with an Apple app release 
> perhaps I am not being facetious ;-).  If you are of the mind that being 
> behind several revisions is “better”, then by all means go for it…   I have 
> found that the new updates (mostly) add stability and performance as well as 
> many enhancements and features (rather than more bugs) so I am a fan of the 
> direct download myself.   
> 
> By the way, you can ALSO download the direct app from Autodesk EVEN IF you 
> have the Apple app store version.  There are several threads on this subject 
> in the Fusion 360 forums, which by the way are an excellent source of 
> information.  I have to say, Autodesk support for Fusion 360 is absolutely 
> great.  Notice I didn’t say “for a free app”.  They have been great, period.

Their support for Inventor etc is also very good. And the available tutorials 
etc by users is voluminous.

Marcus

> 
> -Tom
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[Mark]

ROFLMAO!!!  So many years compiling, configuring, running and managing 
sendmail, I would tend to agree with Mr Altman.  I have probably as many 
scars as you, Jerry.  ;-)

Mark

On 02/01/2016 12:59 AM, Jerry Scharf wrote:
> Eric Altman, author of sendmail said that he received "a lifetime of
> loathing for the use of m4." m4 could probably do it, but it will be the
> most obtuse, write only code imaginable. Been there, done that, have the
> scars.
>
> jerry
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 8:27 PM, Chris Albertson 
> wrote:
>
>> I was thinking about using "m4".  It is a macro processor that is already
>> on every Linux/Unix system and I think all Macs too.
>> m4 will copy its input to its output except when it sees a macro which it
>> will expend.  while expanding a macro it can run any shell program or use
>> it's own features.   So a trivial m4 file would be just one line that reads
>> "hello world".   I think M4 wins for having and shortest posable hello
>> world program.  I could us Java or Perl or whatever but I'd just be
>> re-implementing m4.


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Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[Mark]

Oh gawd.  m4 and the sacrificial chickens used to compile sendmail.cf's 
and such.  That's a nightmare I've left in my past...  ;-)

Mark

On 01/31/2016 11:27 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> I was thinking about using "m4".  It is a macro processor that is already
> on every Linux/Unix system and I think all Macs too.
> m4 will copy its input to its output except when it sees a macro which it
> will expend.  while expanding a macro it can run any shell program or use
> it's own features.   So a trivial m4 file would be just one line that reads
> "hello world".   I think M4 wins for having and shortest posable hello
> world program.  I could us Java or Perl or whatever but I'd just be
> re-implementing m4.
>
> On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 6:19 AM, Mark  wrote:
>
>> On 01/30/2016 08:57 PM, craig wrote:
>> 
>>> Being almost undocumented my code would not be much use to anyone else
>>> but the approach might.
>>>
>>> craig
>>
>> Birds of a feather I would say.  I did kinda the same thing with Perl.  ;-)
>>
>> Mark


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Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[Rafael]

Adding to the code fight. It's a pity we still have to deal with G-code. 
It's not 1960's when machines came with equivalent of few hundred bytes 
of memory and/or paper tape reader.

Why is it that people need to remember some G to move a tool along x 
or y axis in increments or absolute coordinates when more human readable 
command would do?

At one point one would expect to see G-code make progress into something 
like HP-GL/2 with additional axis, CNC specific commands, and modern 
functions calls. At least you have two letters for a command in HP-GL.

Some technologies just don't make any reasonable progress. For old 
machines I get it, but seeing the same thing in new ones?

It would also make sense to see files with CNC code wrapped in json or 
yaml format these days. As machines become computerized, it would be 
trivial to get rid of G(M)-code and move on.

Modern TVs for example can download a program from the network and run 
it like "smart phones" do. Why not have "smart CNC machines"?

On 01/31/2016 09:59 PM, Jerry Scharf wrote:
> Eric Altman, author of sendmail said that he received "a lifetime of

I hated it from day one I had to deal with it in Solaris and later 
Linux! Switched to exim and later to postfix as soon as they were 
usable. Why the hell would one need to create an "inhumane configuration 
files" for critical application I'll never understand but there are 
other things in software world I don't understand either.

> loathing for the use of m4." m4 could probably do it, but it will be the
> most obtuse, write only code imaginable. Been there, done that, have the
> scars.
>
> jerry


-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[linden]

That is the point it is the case of the golden hand cuffs. The idea is 
the vendor gets you locked in and more or less holds your data hostage. 
As long as you play nice and pay up all is ok but if you dont or the 
vendor needs money in a hurry your day to day businesses is held for 
ransom. As they realize it is very difficult for you to get your data 
and go elsewhere or just walk away from years of accumulated work and 
start over.

I have been on both sides of this strategy some of the terms in software 
licenses are unbelievable any thing business or mission critical should 
be open source or at lease use and open standard for the data or data 
base with tools to export to some universal format.



On 16-02-01 02:44 AM, Marcus Bowman wrote:
> On 31 Jan 2016, at 05:03, Chris Albertson wrote:
>
>> Yes.  Sorry that was a typo, autocorrected.   But actually the subscription
>> model of paying for software is the same.Microsoft is doing  this with
>> Office 360 too.   All  of these companies are looking to do the same
>> things, even out there cash flow with reliable monthly payments form
>> customers and to offer cloud data storage so your data is not tied to one
>> specific PC.
>>
> It also makes it very difficult for users to stop paying the subs, because 
> they can't then use the software, so previous work is lost, I think.
>
> Marcus
>
>> On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 8:45 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> To clarify…  This is not an Adobe app.  The company is Autodesk, same
>>> company that did Autocad and Inventor, etc etc….
>>> -Tom
>>>
 On Jan 30, 2016, at 11:33 PM, Chris Albertson 
>>> wrote:
 As I said, running this app as I type...  Yes you can sign up for free
>>> use
 under one of two cases
 1) Student or Educator, gets three free years and can sign up again after
 that
 2) Business that does under $100K per year gets one free year then can
>>> sign
 up again.

 So I yes you only owe them money if you use this to run a business that
 makes over $100K.  In which case $300 is not much.

 This is not really a "cloud app".  It runs like the other Adobe apps.
 This means the app itself, the program is just a normal program that runs
 on your local computer.  But the DATA or at lest copies of the data can
 exist on Adobe's cloud storage.This is very good because it means you
 can access it from any place in the world and so can your co-workers.

 This would be the app to use it say a group of people wanted to design a
 "open source" machine part.  Like maybe a CNC conversion kit for a
>>> popular
 mill, or an open source 3D printer.  Anyone could "improve" the design
>>> and
 if the improvement turns out to not be so good then the version control
 system could back out the change.  You can't do this so easy if the data
 lives inside one PC in one person's office.   I think you can keep local
 data too if you like.  I's still playing with it.

 But do NOT think of this as a "cloud app".  It is NOT browser based, not
 web based.  It's runs local as any other apps does.

 There does appear to be a learning curve.  This is an industrial strength
 product and I've had it for all of 20 minutes so far.



 On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 8:04 PM, Chris Albertson <
>>> albertson.ch...@gmail.com >
 wrote:

> It seems that Fusion 360 is in the Mac "App Store" for free.  It may be
> cloud based but it is also a "real" app that runs on a Mac.  (They might
> have a Windows version too but I have not looked.)
>
> OK I said "free".  No, sorry, a correction, The app is free but it does
> not work without a "membership".  You can buy different levels of
> "membership" starting at $39 per month or $300 per year.  Only the
>>> first 30
> days is free.  I'm looking at the App as I type this.
>
> That said, it looks really good:
>
>   - A big company that is NOT going away is behind this (Adobe)
>   - It does ,Surface, Mesh, Parametric and Solid modeling and will do
>   organic shape like a guitar neck or car body as well as simple things
>   - It holds the data and allows people to collaborate from different
>   locations on a design.  It will handle version control and multiple
>>> users
>   working on the same designs
>   - Users can extend it using Java
>   - Can output to a 3 axis mill, 3D Printer or even printed drawings
>
>
> But $39 per month will add up over time.  This is the model Adobe
>>> has
> gone with for their other apps like Photoshop and the like, you buy a
> subscription.   It is a good deal if you make money  with Adobe
>>> software.
> Looks like I can use this for 30 days.
>
> Here is a link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/fusion-360
> 

Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[TJoseph Powderly]

cpp, the c preprocessor can do the macro expansion
does not have to get C handed to it
also commonly available on linux distros
tomp

On 02/01/2016 12:27 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> I was thinking about using "m4".  It is a macro processor that is already
> on every Linux/Unix system and I think all Macs too.
> m4 will copy its input to its output except when it sees a macro which it
> will expend.  while expanding a macro it can run any shell program or use
> it's own features.   So a trivial m4 file would be just one line that reads
> "hello world".   I think M4 wins for having and shortest posable hello
> world program.  I could us Java or Perl or whatever but I'd just be
> re-implementing m4.
>
> On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 6:19 AM, Mark  wrote:
>
>> On 01/30/2016 08:57 PM, craig wrote:
>> 
>>> Being almost undocumented my code would not be much use to anyone else
>>> but the approach might.
>>>
>>> craig
>>
>> Birds of a feather I would say.  I did kinda the same thing with Perl.  ;-)
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> --
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>
>


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Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[Jerry Scharf]

Eric Altman, author of sendmail said that he received "a lifetime of
loathing for the use of m4." m4 could probably do it, but it will be the
most obtuse, write only code imaginable. Been there, done that, have the
scars.

jerry


On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 8:27 PM, Chris Albertson 
wrote:

> I was thinking about using "m4".  It is a macro processor that is already
> on every Linux/Unix system and I think all Macs too.
> m4 will copy its input to its output except when it sees a macro which it
> will expend.  while expanding a macro it can run any shell program or use
> it's own features.   So a trivial m4 file would be just one line that reads
> "hello world".   I think M4 wins for having and shortest posable hello
> world program.  I could us Java or Perl or whatever but I'd just be
> re-implementing m4.
>
> On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 6:19 AM, Mark  wrote:
>
> > On 01/30/2016 08:57 PM, craig wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > > Being almost undocumented my code would not be much use to anyone else
> > > but the approach might.
> > >
> > > craig
> >
> >
> > Birds of a feather I would say.  I did kinda the same thing with Perl.
> ;-)
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
> --
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> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[Chris Albertson]

I was thinking about using "m4".  It is a macro processor that is already
on every Linux/Unix system and I think all Macs too.
m4 will copy its input to its output except when it sees a macro which it
will expend.  while expanding a macro it can run any shell program or use
it's own features.   So a trivial m4 file would be just one line that reads
"hello world".   I think M4 wins for having and shortest posable hello
world program.  I could us Java or Perl or whatever but I'd just be
re-implementing m4.

On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 6:19 AM, Mark  wrote:

> On 01/30/2016 08:57 PM, craig wrote:
> 
> >
> > Being almost undocumented my code would not be much use to anyone else
> > but the approach might.
> >
> > craig
>
>
> Birds of a feather I would say.  I did kinda the same thing with Perl.  ;-)
>
> Mark
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[Mark]

On 01/30/2016 11:33 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> As I said, running this app as I type...  Yes you can sign up for free use
> under one of two cases
> 1) Student or Educator, gets three free years and can sign up again after
> that
> 2) Business that does under $100K per year gets one free year then can sign
> up again.
>
> So I yes you only owe them money if you use this to run a business that
> makes over $100K.  In which case $300 is not much.
>
> This is not really a "cloud app".  It runs like the other Adobe apps.
> This means the app itself, the program is just a normal program that runs
> on your local computer.  But the DATA or at lest copies of the data can
> exist on Adobe's cloud storage.This is very good because it means you
> can access it from any place in the world and so can your co-workers.
>
> This would be the app to use it say a group of people wanted to design a
> "open source" machine part.  Like maybe a CNC conversion kit for a popular
> mill, or an open source 3D printer.  Anyone could "improve" the design and
> if the improvement turns out to not be so good then the version control
> system could back out the change.  You can't do this so easy if the data
> lives inside one PC in one person's office.   I think you can keep local
> data too if you like.  I's still playing with it.
>
> But do NOT think of this as a "cloud app".  It is NOT browser based, not
> web based.  It's runs local as any other apps does.
>
> There does appear to be a learning curve.  This is an industrial strength
> product and I've had it for all of 20 minutes so far.

FWIW, Autodesk has no connection to Adobe.  Two separate companies. 
Autodesk is the company that developed AutoCAD.

Mark

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Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[Dave Caroline]

I used to create my gears with a bit of php but then is became obvious
that the same maths could be done in gcode, one less step, so the
preamble in the gcode has a tooth qty/whatever is needed for that
class of work.

Dave Caroline

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Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[craig]

On 1/30/2016 9:03 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> What are people here using to create G-code?   I am looking for options.
>
> I'm new to CNC and trying to develop a work flow.  I'm making small parts
> (most fit in a 3" cube)  for robot manipulators.   These can be designed
> for easy manual machining but now I want to add curves and arcs and later
> add refinements that have more organic shapes.  Qualities are as much as a
> half dozen each.
>
> I use ViaCAD.  It is very much identical to "TurboCAD" to make 3D drawings
> and these can be saved in several different file formats.
>
> I found PyCAM.  It will read STL files and make G-code.   Are there other
> options?   Can you really build good G-code from STL?  It seems STL has no
> notion of arcs and hols and pockets.  It is all triangles.  Does this
> matter?
>
> I'm doing the design work on a Apple iMac and of course the machine
> controller is Linux.  Any workflow that uses either of those two OSes is
> fine, as I've had long experience with both.
>
I use Java, where I have a rich set of mathematical tools to write code 
to write and manipulate arrays of "pseudo code" and routines to generate 
g-code from the pseudo code.The "pseudo code"  has the advantage of 
being easily manipulated with java methods (functions).   This works 
well for me doing the kind of 2 1/2 D decorative designs i make with a 
small CNC router.

I used Java because I knew it and it had both the manipulation tools I 
wanted and string generation tools I needed create G-code from arrays in 
my notation.

Being almost undocumented my code would not be much use to anyone else 
but the approach might.

craig

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Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[Bertho Stultiens]

On 01/31/2016 02:57 AM, craig wrote:
> I use Java, where I have a rich set of mathematical tools to write code 
> to write and manipulate arrays of "pseudo code" and routines to generate 
> g-code from the pseudo code.The "pseudo code"  has the advantage of 
> being easily manipulated with java methods (functions).   This works 
> well for me doing the kind of 2 1/2 D decorative designs i make with a 
> small CNC router.
> 
> I used Java because I knew it and it had both the manipulation tools I 
> wanted and string generation tools I needed create G-code from arrays in 
> my notation.
> 
> Being almost undocumented my code would not be much use to anyone else 
> but the approach might.

Well, that sounds like you are doing abstraction of the G-code.

That is exactly what gcmc does (G-Code Meta Compiler:
http://www.vagrearg.org/content/gcmc). Only it is encapsulated as a
complete stand-alone language and generates G-code (or svg/dxf).

Gcmc uses vectors and vectorlists to describe the tool-paths. They are
manipulated a rich set of standard math primitives. The language is
documented and there are a set of examples to see its operation.


(this is also blatant self-advertising... I am the author of gcmc)

-- 
Greetings Bertho

(disclaimers are disclaimed)

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Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[Mark]

On 01/30/2016 08:57 PM, craig wrote:

> I use Java, where I have a rich set of mathematical tools to write code
> to write and manipulate arrays of "pseudo code" and routines to generate
> g-code from the pseudo code.The "pseudo code"  has the advantage of
> being easily manipulated with java methods (functions).   This works
> well for me doing the kind of 2 1/2 D decorative designs i make with a
> small CNC router.
>
> I used Java because I knew it and it had both the manipulation tools I
> wanted and string generation tools I needed create G-code from arrays in
> my notation.
>
> Being almost undocumented my code would not be much use to anyone else
> but the approach might.
>
> craig


Birds of a feather I would say.  I did kinda the same thing with Perl.  ;-)

Mark

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Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[Jon Elson]

On 01/30/2016 11:03 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> What are people here using to create G-code?   I am looking for options.
>
>
I have an old version of Bobcad/CAM, but it is cumbersome to 
use, so I rarely use it.
Instead, I have written a bunch of c programs that write 
efficient G-code for the types of things I frequently do.  
These include milling out holes and rectangular shapes in 
panels.  I have variants that do a real pocket with a flat 
bottom, and "trepanning" routines that mill a cutout 
slightly undersize, allow the slug to drop out and then 
finish the cutout to final dimensions.

You just enter a few numbers for position and size of the 
feature, tool size, feedrates and depth, and it writes the 
G-code.  Then, I string a bunch of these together with a 
text editor, and there it is.

I have a few of these programs listed, with source code 
downloads at :
http://pico-systems.com/gcode.html

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 30 January 2016 12:03:41 Chris Albertson wrote:

> What are people here using to create G-code?   I am looking for
> options.
>
> I'm new to CNC and trying to develop a work flow.  I'm making small
> parts (most fit in a 3" cube)  for robot manipulators.   These can be
> designed for easy manual machining but now I want to add curves and
> arcs and later add refinements that have more organic shapes. 
> Qualities are as much as a half dozen each.
>
> I use ViaCAD.  It is very much identical to "TurboCAD" to make 3D
> drawings and these can be saved in several different file formats.
>
> I found PyCAM.  It will read STL files and make G-code.   Are there
> other options?   Can you really build good G-code from STL?  It seems
> STL has no notion of arcs and hols and pockets.  It is all triangles. 
> Does this matter?
>
> I'm doing the design work on a Apple iMac and of course the machine
> controller is Linux.  Any workflow that uses either of those two OSes
> is fine, as I've had long experience with both.

Generally, for such projects, I write my own.  With a copy of the gcode 
docs in front of you, its not that hard altho I have had to resort to 
asking this list for help with the G2/G3 stuff. Andy has been amazingly 
helpful in that regard. So have others, giving me insightful ways to get 
it done, and I thank them all.

I make very heavy use of subroutines and both local and global named 
variables in doing so as a step and repeat isn't needed to be separately 
coded each time, just position the machine and make the call,  All of 
the code to carve the mahogany for the major boards of a copy of that 
Green & Green style blanket chest on the front cover of the Dec 2014 
issue of Fine WoodWorking might be over 1000 LOC, but I don't think so.  
That is for 2 different widths of boards, and mirroring the pattern used 
for the side board for the end boards.  And that includes all the 
assembly screw holes and pockets for the ebony buttons that hide the 
screws.  The code that carves those buttons in sandwich baggie 
quantities will bring it to perhaps 1400 LOC total.
At some point, I should tarball the lot of that and post it on my web 
page, in the sig below.  That FWIW is actually this machine.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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[Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[Chris Albertson]

What are people here using to create G-code?   I am looking for options.

I'm new to CNC and trying to develop a work flow.  I'm making small parts
(most fit in a 3" cube)  for robot manipulators.   These can be designed
for easy manual machining but now I want to add curves and arcs and later
add refinements that have more organic shapes.  Qualities are as much as a
half dozen each.

I use ViaCAD.  It is very much identical to "TurboCAD" to make 3D drawings
and these can be saved in several different file formats.

I found PyCAM.  It will read STL files and make G-code.   Are there other
options?   Can you really build good G-code from STL?  It seems STL has no
notion of arcs and hols and pockets.  It is all triangles.  Does this
matter?

I'm doing the design work on a Apple iMac and of course the machine
controller is Linux.  Any workflow that uses either of those two OSes is
fine, as I've had long experience with both.

-- 

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Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[tom-emc]

I too am a Mac user.  Up until recently I have been using Geomagic Design 
(formerly Alibre Design) for CAD and mostly Sheetcam for CAM.  Both of these 
apps are Windows based.  I run Windows7 as an application on MacOS - as god 
intended ;-)  with Parallels.  Geomagic and Sheetcam are pretty much the only 
thing I run under Windows.

A few months ago when I read that Fusion had released their turning CAM and 
made Fusion 360 free for enthusiasts and small businesses I gave it another try 
(had played with early beta but found it lacking).  I have now begun to use 
Fusion 360 almost exclusively.  I have most recently been making parts for a 
cnc lathe so I haven’t played with the milling CAM yet, but do intend to.  
After months of using it I believe I am not going to renew my maintenance of 
Geomagic Design.   I have to say that I was very reluctant to use a cloud-based 
application but I am quite pleased with Fusion 360 and have never had issues 
relating to it’s cloud-based model (you can do most things when offline as 
well).  I am constantly amazed at the features in the software as well as the 
integrated HSMWorks-based CAM software that is available for free in this 
package.   It is also constantly being improved and updated, they do a feature 
and bug release at least once a month. sometime twice a month.

I also infrequently use OnShape (also cloud based) and am very impressed with 
their collaboration features and rapid updates as well.  OnShape is CAD only 
and doesn’t have free integrated CAM so I have been using it less and less but 
occasionally use it with colleagues to work on some things.   You can purchase 
commercial CAM packages for it.

I would highly recommend you check out Fusion 360.
-Tom

> On Jan 30, 2016, at 12:03 PM, Chris Albertson  
> wrote:
> 
> What are people here using to create G-code?   I am looking for options.
> 
> I'm new to CNC and trying to develop a work flow.  I'm making small parts
> (most fit in a 3" cube)  for robot manipulators.   These can be designed
> for easy manual machining but now I want to add curves and arcs and later
> add refinements that have more organic shapes.  Qualities are as much as a
> half dozen each.
> 
> I use ViaCAD.  It is very much identical to "TurboCAD" to make 3D drawings
> and these can be saved in several different file formats.
> 
> I found PyCAM.  It will read STL files and make G-code.   Are there other
> options?   Can you really build good G-code from STL?  It seems STL has no
> notion of arcs and hols and pockets.  It is all triangles.  Does this
> matter?
> 
> I'm doing the design work on a Apple iMac and of course the machine
> controller is Linux.  Any workflow that uses either of those two OSes is
> fine, as I've had long experience with both.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California


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Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[tom-emc]

BTW, Dale Grover at Maker Works in Ann Arbor put together this handy overview 
of the CAD/CAM tool chain:  
http://maker-works.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/cadcamPosterV1.png

-Tom


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Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[tom-emc]

"the CAD/CAM tool chain” should have been "their CAD/CAM tool chain”.  This is 
Maker Works tool chain for the software they use and the machines they drive.  
It doesn’t include ALL possibilities.  For example, Fusion 360 CAM isn’t shown. 
But handy nonetheless.
-Tom

> On Jan 30, 2016, at 5:12 PM, tom-...@bgp.nu wrote:
> 
> BTW, Dale Grover at Maker Works in Ann Arbor put together this handy overview 
> of the CAD/CAM tool chain:  
> http://maker-works.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/cadcamPosterV1.png
> 
> -Tom
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[Chris Albertson]

It seems that Fusion 360 is in the Mac "App Store" for free.  It may be
cloud based but it is also a "real" app that runs on a Mac.  (They might
have a Windows version too but I have not looked.)

OK I said "free".  No, sorry, a correction, The app is free but it does not
work without a "membership".  You can buy different levels of "membership"
starting at $39 per month or $300 per year.  Only the first 30 days is
free.  I'm looking at the App as I type this.

That said, it looks really good:

   - A big company that is NOT going away is behind this (Adobe)
   - It does ,Surface, Mesh, Parametric and Solid modeling and will do
   organic shape like a guitar neck or car body as well as simple things
   - It holds the data and allows people to collaborate from different
   locations on a design.  It will handle version control and multiple users
   working on the same designs
   - Users can extend it using Java
   - Can output to a 3 axis mill, 3D Printer or even printed drawings


But $39 per month will add up over time.  This is the model Adobe has
gone with for their other apps like Photoshop and the like, you buy a
subscription.   It is a good deal if you make money  with Adobe software.
 Looks like I can use this for 30 days.

Here is a link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/fusion-360


On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 11:03 AM,  wrote:

> I too am a Mac user.  Up until recently I have been using Geomagic Design
> (formerly Alibre Design) for CAD and mostly Sheetcam for CAM.  Both of
> these apps are Windows based.  I run Windows7 as an application on MacOS -
> as god intended ;-)  with Parallels.  Geomagic and Sheetcam are pretty much
> the only thing I run under Windows.
>
> A few months ago when I read that Fusion had released their turning CAM
> and made Fusion 360 free for enthusiasts and small businesses I gave it
> another try (had played with early beta but found it lacking).  I have now
> begun to use Fusion 360 almost exclusively.  I have most recently been
> making parts for a cnc lathe so I haven’t played with the milling CAM yet,
> but do intend to.  After months of using it I believe I am not going to
> renew my maintenance of Geomagic Design.   I have to say that I was very
> reluctant to use a cloud-based application but I am quite pleased with
> Fusion 360 and have never had issues relating to it’s cloud-based model
> (you can do most things when offline as well).  I am constantly amazed at
> the features in the software as well as the integrated HSMWorks-based CAM
> software that is available for free in this package.   It is also
> constantly being improved and updated, they do a feature and bug release at
> least once a month. sometime twice a month.
>
> I also infrequently use OnShape (also cloud based) and am very impressed
> with their collaboration features and rapid updates as well.  OnShape is
> CAD only and doesn’t have free integrated CAM so I have been using it less
> and less but occasionally use it with colleagues to work on some things.
>  You can purchase commercial CAM packages for it.
>
> I would highly recommend you check out Fusion 360.
> -Tom
>
> > On Jan 30, 2016, at 12:03 PM, Chris Albertson 
> wrote:
> >
> > What are people here using to create G-code?   I am looking for options.
> >
> > I'm new to CNC and trying to develop a work flow.  I'm making small parts
> > (most fit in a 3" cube)  for robot manipulators.   These can be designed
> > for easy manual machining but now I want to add curves and arcs and later
> > add refinements that have more organic shapes.  Qualities are as much as
> a
> > half dozen each.
> >
> > I use ViaCAD.  It is very much identical to "TurboCAD" to make 3D
> drawings
> > and these can be saved in several different file formats.
> >
> > I found PyCAM.  It will read STL files and make G-code.   Are there other
> > options?   Can you really build good G-code from STL?  It seems STL has
> no
> > notion of arcs and hols and pockets.  It is all triangles.  Does this
> > matter?
> >
> > I'm doing the design work on a Apple iMac and of course the machine
> > controller is Linux.  Any workflow that uses either of those two OSes is
> > fine, as I've had long experience with both.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Chris Albertson
> > Redondo Beach, California
>
>
>
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-- 

Chris 

Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[tom-emc]

To clarify…  This is not an Adobe app.  The company is Autodesk, same company 
that did Autocad and Inventor, etc etc….
-Tom

> On Jan 30, 2016, at 11:33 PM, Chris Albertson  
> wrote:
> 
> As I said, running this app as I type...  Yes you can sign up for free use
> under one of two cases
> 1) Student or Educator, gets three free years and can sign up again after
> that
> 2) Business that does under $100K per year gets one free year then can sign
> up again.
> 
> So I yes you only owe them money if you use this to run a business that
> makes over $100K.  In which case $300 is not much.
> 
> This is not really a "cloud app".  It runs like the other Adobe apps.
> This means the app itself, the program is just a normal program that runs
> on your local computer.  But the DATA or at lest copies of the data can
> exist on Adobe's cloud storage.This is very good because it means you
> can access it from any place in the world and so can your co-workers.
> 
> This would be the app to use it say a group of people wanted to design a
> "open source" machine part.  Like maybe a CNC conversion kit for a popular
> mill, or an open source 3D printer.  Anyone could "improve" the design and
> if the improvement turns out to not be so good then the version control
> system could back out the change.  You can't do this so easy if the data
> lives inside one PC in one person's office.   I think you can keep local
> data too if you like.  I's still playing with it.
> 
> But do NOT think of this as a "cloud app".  It is NOT browser based, not
> web based.  It's runs local as any other apps does.
> 
> There does appear to be a learning curve.  This is an industrial strength
> product and I've had it for all of 20 minutes so far.
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 8:04 PM, Chris Albertson  >
> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> It seems that Fusion 360 is in the Mac "App Store" for free.  It may be
>> cloud based but it is also a "real" app that runs on a Mac.  (They might
>> have a Windows version too but I have not looked.)
>> 
>> OK I said "free".  No, sorry, a correction, The app is free but it does
>> not work without a "membership".  You can buy different levels of
>> "membership" starting at $39 per month or $300 per year.  Only the first 30
>> days is free.  I'm looking at the App as I type this.
>> 
>> That said, it looks really good:
>> 
>>   - A big company that is NOT going away is behind this (Adobe)
>>   - It does ,Surface, Mesh, Parametric and Solid modeling and will do
>>   organic shape like a guitar neck or car body as well as simple things
>>   - It holds the data and allows people to collaborate from different
>>   locations on a design.  It will handle version control and multiple users
>>   working on the same designs
>>   - Users can extend it using Java
>>   - Can output to a 3 axis mill, 3D Printer or even printed drawings
>> 
>> 
>> But $39 per month will add up over time.  This is the model Adobe has
>> gone with for their other apps like Photoshop and the like, you buy a
>> subscription.   It is a good deal if you make money  with Adobe software.
>> Looks like I can use this for 30 days.
>> 
>> Here is a link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/fusion-360
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 11:03 AM,  wrote:
>> 
>>> I too am a Mac user.  Up until recently I have been using Geomagic Design
>>> (formerly Alibre Design) for CAD and mostly Sheetcam for CAM.  Both of
>>> these apps are Windows based.  I run Windows7 as an application on MacOS -
>>> as god intended ;-)  with Parallels.  Geomagic and Sheetcam are pretty much
>>> the only thing I run under Windows.
>>> 
>>> A few months ago when I read that Fusion had released their turning CAM
>>> and made Fusion 360 free for enthusiasts and small businesses I gave it
>>> another try (had played with early beta but found it lacking).  I have now
>>> begun to use Fusion 360 almost exclusively.  I have most recently been
>>> making parts for a cnc lathe so I haven’t played with the milling CAM yet,
>>> but do intend to.  After months of using it I believe I am not going to
>>> renew my maintenance of Geomagic Design.   I have to say that I was very
>>> reluctant to use a cloud-based application but I am quite pleased with
>>> Fusion 360 and have never had issues relating to it’s cloud-based model
>>> (you can do most things when offline as well).  I am constantly amazed at
>>> the features in the software as well as the integrated HSMWorks-based CAM
>>> software that is available for free in this package.   It is also
>>> constantly being improved and updated, they do a feature and bug release at
>>> least once a month. sometime twice a month.
>>> 
>>> I also infrequently use OnShape (also cloud based) and am very impressed
>>> with their collaboration features and rapid updates as well.  OnShape is
>>> CAD 

Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[Chris Albertson]

This is what I get for typing while I'm looking at the app, rather than
after using it for a while.   I got to it using it via a different rout.
For Mac users getting it from the Apple Mac Store is better than
downloading from the Autodesk web site.  Apple will manage software updates
automatically and it will run on all my Apple computers, even ones I buy
years later.  The terms of use may be a little different if you get it from
the app store.

Now to work through some on-line tutorials..

On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 8:29 PM,  wrote:

> Chris,
> Go here: http://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/overview
> Download, sign up, and if you are a small business making less than $100k
> per year (I think that is the number), or a hobbiest you get a 1 year (and
> renewable) license for no charge.
> -Tom
> .
> > On Jan 30, 2016, at 11:04 PM, Chris Albertson 
> wrote:
> >
> > It seems that Fusion 360 is in the Mac "App Store" for free.  It may be
> > cloud based but it is also a "real" app that runs on a Mac.  (They might
> > have a Windows version too but I have not looked.)
> >
> > OK I said "free".  No, sorry, a correction, The app is free but it does
> not
> > work without a "membership".  You can buy different levels of
> "membership"
> > starting at $39 per month or $300 per year.  Only the first 30 days is
> > free.  I'm looking at the App as I type this.
> >
> > That said, it looks really good:
> >
> >   - A big company that is NOT going away is behind this (Adobe)
> >   - It does ,Surface, Mesh, Parametric and Solid modeling and will do
> >   organic shape like a guitar neck or car body as well as simple things
> >   - It holds the data and allows people to collaborate from different
> >   locations on a design.  It will handle version control and multiple
> users
> >   working on the same designs
> >   - Users can extend it using Java
> >   - Can output to a 3 axis mill, 3D Printer or even printed drawings
> >
> >
> > But $39 per month will add up over time.  This is the model Adobe has
> > gone with for their other apps like Photoshop and the like, you buy a
> > subscription.   It is a good deal if you make money  with Adobe software.
> > Looks like I can use this for 30 days.
> >
> > Here is a link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/fusion-360
> > 
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 11:03 AM,  wrote:
> >
> >> I too am a Mac user.  Up until recently I have been using Geomagic
> Design
> >> (formerly Alibre Design) for CAD and mostly Sheetcam for CAM.  Both of
> >> these apps are Windows based.  I run Windows7 as an application on
> MacOS -
> >> as god intended ;-)  with Parallels.  Geomagic and Sheetcam are pretty
> much
> >> the only thing I run under Windows.
> >>
> >> A few months ago when I read that Fusion had released their turning CAM
> >> and made Fusion 360 free for enthusiasts and small businesses I gave it
> >> another try (had played with early beta but found it lacking).  I have
> now
> >> begun to use Fusion 360 almost exclusively.  I have most recently been
> >> making parts for a cnc lathe so I haven’t played with the milling CAM
> yet,
> >> but do intend to.  After months of using it I believe I am not going to
> >> renew my maintenance of Geomagic Design.   I have to say that I was very
> >> reluctant to use a cloud-based application but I am quite pleased with
> >> Fusion 360 and have never had issues relating to it’s cloud-based model
> >> (you can do most things when offline as well).  I am constantly amazed
> at
> >> the features in the software as well as the integrated HSMWorks-based
> CAM
> >> software that is available for free in this package.   It is also
> >> constantly being improved and updated, they do a feature and bug
> release at
> >> least once a month. sometime twice a month.
> >>
> >> I also infrequently use OnShape (also cloud based) and am very impressed
> >> with their collaboration features and rapid updates as well.  OnShape is
> >> CAD only and doesn’t have free integrated CAM so I have been using it
> less
> >> and less but occasionally use it with colleagues to work on some things.
> >> You can purchase commercial CAM packages for it.
> >>
> >> I would highly recommend you check out Fusion 360.
> >> -Tom
> >>
> >>> On Jan 30, 2016, at 12:03 PM, Chris Albertson <
> albertson.ch...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> What are people here using to create G-code?   I am looking for
> options.
> >>>
> >>> I'm new to CNC and trying to develop a work flow.  I'm making small
> parts
> >>> (most fit in a 3" cube)  for robot manipulators.   These can be
> designed
> >>> for easy manual machining but now I want to add curves and arcs and
> later
> >>> add refinements that have more organic shapes.  Qualities are as much
> as
> >> a
> >>> half dozen each.
> >>>
> >>> I use ViaCAD.  It is very much identical to "TurboCAD" to make 3D
> >> drawings
> 

Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[tom-emc]

> On Jan 30, 2016, at 11:56 PM, Chris Albertson  
> wrote:
> 
> For Mac users getting it from the Apple Mac Store is better than downloading 
> from the Autodesk web site.Apple will manage software updates 
> automatically and it will run on all my Apple computers, even ones I buy 
> years later.


I would say it is very much debatable if getting it from the Apple App store is 
“better” than from Autodesk directly.  The updates to Fusion 360 are very much 
behind on the app store version because Autodesk has to go through the Apple 
vetting procedures for every release there.  They are updating more frequently 
than Apple has been able to keep up with. Apple isn’t "managing software 
updates automatically” as much as delaying Autodesk from releasing updates 
quickly and informing you via the App Store application when they (Apple) have 
finally gotten around to censoring the offensive comments in the code and 
making it available (having been involved with an Apple app release perhaps I 
am not being facetious ;-).  If you are of the mind that being behind several 
revisions is “better”, then by all means go for it…   I have found that the new 
updates (mostly) add stability and performance as well as many enhancements and 
features (rather than more bugs) so I am a fan of the direct download myself.   

By the way, you can ALSO download the direct app from Autodesk EVEN IF you have 
the Apple app store version.  There are several threads on this subject in the 
Fusion 360 forums, which by the way are an excellent source of information.  I 
have to say, Autodesk support for Fusion 360 is absolutely great.  Notice I 
didn’t say “for a free app”.  They have been great, period.

-Tom


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Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[Chris Albertson]

Yes.  Sorry that was a typo, autocorrected.   But actually the subscription
model of paying for software is the same.Microsoft is doing  this with
Office 360 too.   All  of these companies are looking to do the same
things, even out there cash flow with reliable monthly payments form
customers and to offer cloud data storage so your data is not tied to one
specific PC.

On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 8:45 PM,  wrote:

> To clarify…  This is not an Adobe app.  The company is Autodesk, same
> company that did Autocad and Inventor, etc etc….
> -Tom
>
> > On Jan 30, 2016, at 11:33 PM, Chris Albertson 
> wrote:
> >
> > As I said, running this app as I type...  Yes you can sign up for free
> use
> > under one of two cases
> > 1) Student or Educator, gets three free years and can sign up again after
> > that
> > 2) Business that does under $100K per year gets one free year then can
> sign
> > up again.
> >
> > So I yes you only owe them money if you use this to run a business that
> > makes over $100K.  In which case $300 is not much.
> >
> > This is not really a "cloud app".  It runs like the other Adobe apps.
> > This means the app itself, the program is just a normal program that runs
> > on your local computer.  But the DATA or at lest copies of the data can
> > exist on Adobe's cloud storage.This is very good because it means you
> > can access it from any place in the world and so can your co-workers.
> >
> > This would be the app to use it say a group of people wanted to design a
> > "open source" machine part.  Like maybe a CNC conversion kit for a
> popular
> > mill, or an open source 3D printer.  Anyone could "improve" the design
> and
> > if the improvement turns out to not be so good then the version control
> > system could back out the change.  You can't do this so easy if the data
> > lives inside one PC in one person's office.   I think you can keep local
> > data too if you like.  I's still playing with it.
> >
> > But do NOT think of this as a "cloud app".  It is NOT browser based, not
> > web based.  It's runs local as any other apps does.
> >
> > There does appear to be a learning curve.  This is an industrial strength
> > product and I've had it for all of 20 minutes so far.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 8:04 PM, Chris Albertson <
> albertson.ch...@gmail.com >
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> It seems that Fusion 360 is in the Mac "App Store" for free.  It may be
> >> cloud based but it is also a "real" app that runs on a Mac.  (They might
> >> have a Windows version too but I have not looked.)
> >>
> >> OK I said "free".  No, sorry, a correction, The app is free but it does
> >> not work without a "membership".  You can buy different levels of
> >> "membership" starting at $39 per month or $300 per year.  Only the
> first 30
> >> days is free.  I'm looking at the App as I type this.
> >>
> >> That said, it looks really good:
> >>
> >>   - A big company that is NOT going away is behind this (Adobe)
> >>   - It does ,Surface, Mesh, Parametric and Solid modeling and will do
> >>   organic shape like a guitar neck or car body as well as simple things
> >>   - It holds the data and allows people to collaborate from different
> >>   locations on a design.  It will handle version control and multiple
> users
> >>   working on the same designs
> >>   - Users can extend it using Java
> >>   - Can output to a 3 axis mill, 3D Printer or even printed drawings
> >>
> >>
> >> But $39 per month will add up over time.  This is the model Adobe
> has
> >> gone with for their other apps like Photoshop and the like, you buy a
> >> subscription.   It is a good deal if you make money  with Adobe
> software.
> >> Looks like I can use this for 30 days.
> >>
> >> Here is a link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/fusion-360
> >> 
> >>
> >> On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 11:03 AM,  wrote:
> >>
> >>> I too am a Mac user.  Up until recently I have been using Geomagic
> Design
> >>> (formerly Alibre Design) for CAD and mostly Sheetcam for CAM.  Both of
> >>> these apps are Windows based.  I run Windows7 as an application on
> MacOS -
> >>> as god intended ;-)  with Parallels.  Geomagic and Sheetcam are pretty
> much
> >>> the only thing I run under Windows.
> >>>
> >>> A few months ago when I read that Fusion had released their turning CAM
> >>> and made Fusion 360 free for enthusiasts and small businesses I gave it
> >>> another try (had played with early beta but found it lacking).  I have
> now
> >>> begun to use Fusion 360 almost exclusively.  I have most recently been
> >>> making parts for a cnc lathe so I haven’t played with the milling CAM
> yet,
> >>> but do intend to.  After months of using it I believe I am not going to
> >>> renew my maintenance of Geomagic Design.   I have to say that I was
> very
> >>> reluctant to use a cloud-based application but I am 

Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[Greg Bentzinger]

That Maker-works chart is missing the biggist column, between scanner and CAD. 
Paper blueprints.

I know that by now you would expect that companies would supply electronic 
design media to speed up both quote and delivery times, but it seems that 
anything other than paper printed blueprints is available less than 30% of the 
time.

I also have been using Geomagic and am going to be seriously looking at 
Fusion360. I think Fusion360 is going to decimate the lower and mid range 
CAD/CAM options. For simple 2D and 2 1/2D type jobs I have my original licensed 
copy of BobCAD V12 for DOS which worked great before they attempted the Windows 
port. I can run BobCAD V12 just fine in Linux via DOSBox.

Oh and RE: Collets. This is one place where you dig deep into your wallet and 
buy the best you can afford for your milling tools - run out is everything. get 
that special collet in 1/8", 3/16", 1/4" and for what ever other endmill shank 
sizes you use. The tool life gained for about 5 endmills will pay for that size 
collet. The generic sets are ok for drilling and reaming but for fine milling 
you need top shelf.

Also for fine work - look into using SGS or other quality 3/64" solid carbide 
endmills (and try to buy double ended for only a few $$ more) these are much 
tougher than 1/32" yet allow you to do a G2/G3 move with a .025" radius. I have 
a planetary gear spindle speeder head I use. It has a 1:6 speed ratio so with 
my mill at 4000 rpm I have 24,000rpm at the tool. I bought it about 1992 and it 
still runs the same today and has about 10,000-12,000 hours on it. It was very 
expensive, custom built by a division of the Lovejoy Corp. in the UK but it has 
paid for itself many times over. Looks kind of like this but mine is smaller 
and has a Universal Engineering 200 Kwik-switch shank. 
http://www.nikken-world.com/Nikken-Spindle-Speeders.aspx 

Info on kwik switch - http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/KS_200_R8_Adapt.html 
- Ignore the R8...

Greg

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Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[tom-emc]

Chris,
Go here: http://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/overview
Download, sign up, and if you are a small business making less than $100k per 
year (I think that is the number), or a hobbiest you get a 1 year (and 
renewable) license for no charge.  
-Tom
.
> On Jan 30, 2016, at 11:04 PM, Chris Albertson  
> wrote:
> 
> It seems that Fusion 360 is in the Mac "App Store" for free.  It may be
> cloud based but it is also a "real" app that runs on a Mac.  (They might
> have a Windows version too but I have not looked.)
> 
> OK I said "free".  No, sorry, a correction, The app is free but it does not
> work without a "membership".  You can buy different levels of "membership"
> starting at $39 per month or $300 per year.  Only the first 30 days is
> free.  I'm looking at the App as I type this.
> 
> That said, it looks really good:
> 
>   - A big company that is NOT going away is behind this (Adobe)
>   - It does ,Surface, Mesh, Parametric and Solid modeling and will do
>   organic shape like a guitar neck or car body as well as simple things
>   - It holds the data and allows people to collaborate from different
>   locations on a design.  It will handle version control and multiple users
>   working on the same designs
>   - Users can extend it using Java
>   - Can output to a 3 axis mill, 3D Printer or even printed drawings
> 
> 
> But $39 per month will add up over time.  This is the model Adobe has
> gone with for their other apps like Photoshop and the like, you buy a
> subscription.   It is a good deal if you make money  with Adobe software.
> Looks like I can use this for 30 days.
> 
> Here is a link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/fusion-360
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 11:03 AM,  wrote:
> 
>> I too am a Mac user.  Up until recently I have been using Geomagic Design
>> (formerly Alibre Design) for CAD and mostly Sheetcam for CAM.  Both of
>> these apps are Windows based.  I run Windows7 as an application on MacOS -
>> as god intended ;-)  with Parallels.  Geomagic and Sheetcam are pretty much
>> the only thing I run under Windows.
>> 
>> A few months ago when I read that Fusion had released their turning CAM
>> and made Fusion 360 free for enthusiasts and small businesses I gave it
>> another try (had played with early beta but found it lacking).  I have now
>> begun to use Fusion 360 almost exclusively.  I have most recently been
>> making parts for a cnc lathe so I haven’t played with the milling CAM yet,
>> but do intend to.  After months of using it I believe I am not going to
>> renew my maintenance of Geomagic Design.   I have to say that I was very
>> reluctant to use a cloud-based application but I am quite pleased with
>> Fusion 360 and have never had issues relating to it’s cloud-based model
>> (you can do most things when offline as well).  I am constantly amazed at
>> the features in the software as well as the integrated HSMWorks-based CAM
>> software that is available for free in this package.   It is also
>> constantly being improved and updated, they do a feature and bug release at
>> least once a month. sometime twice a month.
>> 
>> I also infrequently use OnShape (also cloud based) and am very impressed
>> with their collaboration features and rapid updates as well.  OnShape is
>> CAD only and doesn’t have free integrated CAM so I have been using it less
>> and less but occasionally use it with colleagues to work on some things.
>> You can purchase commercial CAM packages for it.
>> 
>> I would highly recommend you check out Fusion 360.
>> -Tom
>> 
>>> On Jan 30, 2016, at 12:03 PM, Chris Albertson 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> What are people here using to create G-code?   I am looking for options.
>>> 
>>> I'm new to CNC and trying to develop a work flow.  I'm making small parts
>>> (most fit in a 3" cube)  for robot manipulators.   These can be designed
>>> for easy manual machining but now I want to add curves and arcs and later
>>> add refinements that have more organic shapes.  Qualities are as much as
>> a
>>> half dozen each.
>>> 
>>> I use ViaCAD.  It is very much identical to "TurboCAD" to make 3D
>> drawings
>>> and these can be saved in several different file formats.
>>> 
>>> I found PyCAM.  It will read STL files and make G-code.   Are there other
>>> options?   Can you really build good G-code from STL?  It seems STL has
>> no
>>> notion of arcs and hols and pockets.  It is all triangles.  Does this
>>> matter?
>>> 
>>> I'm doing the design work on a Apple iMac and of course the machine
>>> controller is Linux.  Any workflow that uses either of those two OSes is
>>> fine, as I've had long experience with both.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Chris Albertson
>>> Redondo Beach, California
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application 

Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[Chris Albertson]

As I said, running this app as I type...  Yes you can sign up for free use
under one of two cases
1) Student or Educator, gets three free years and can sign up again after
that
2) Business that does under $100K per year gets one free year then can sign
up again.

So I yes you only owe them money if you use this to run a business that
makes over $100K.  In which case $300 is not much.

This is not really a "cloud app".  It runs like the other Adobe apps.
This means the app itself, the program is just a normal program that runs
on your local computer.  But the DATA or at lest copies of the data can
exist on Adobe's cloud storage.This is very good because it means you
can access it from any place in the world and so can your co-workers.

This would be the app to use it say a group of people wanted to design a
"open source" machine part.  Like maybe a CNC conversion kit for a popular
mill, or an open source 3D printer.  Anyone could "improve" the design and
if the improvement turns out to not be so good then the version control
system could back out the change.  You can't do this so easy if the data
lives inside one PC in one person's office.   I think you can keep local
data too if you like.  I's still playing with it.

But do NOT think of this as a "cloud app".  It is NOT browser based, not
web based.  It's runs local as any other apps does.

There does appear to be a learning curve.  This is an industrial strength
product and I've had it for all of 20 minutes so far.



On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 8:04 PM, Chris Albertson 
wrote:

>
> It seems that Fusion 360 is in the Mac "App Store" for free.  It may be
> cloud based but it is also a "real" app that runs on a Mac.  (They might
> have a Windows version too but I have not looked.)
>
> OK I said "free".  No, sorry, a correction, The app is free but it does
> not work without a "membership".  You can buy different levels of
> "membership" starting at $39 per month or $300 per year.  Only the first 30
> days is free.  I'm looking at the App as I type this.
>
> That said, it looks really good:
>
>- A big company that is NOT going away is behind this (Adobe)
>- It does ,Surface, Mesh, Parametric and Solid modeling and will do
>organic shape like a guitar neck or car body as well as simple things
>- It holds the data and allows people to collaborate from different
>locations on a design.  It will handle version control and multiple users
>working on the same designs
>- Users can extend it using Java
>- Can output to a 3 axis mill, 3D Printer or even printed drawings
>
>
> But $39 per month will add up over time.  This is the model Adobe has
> gone with for their other apps like Photoshop and the like, you buy a
> subscription.   It is a good deal if you make money  with Adobe software.
>  Looks like I can use this for 30 days.
>
> Here is a link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/fusion-360
> 
>
> On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 11:03 AM,  wrote:
>
>> I too am a Mac user.  Up until recently I have been using Geomagic Design
>> (formerly Alibre Design) for CAD and mostly Sheetcam for CAM.  Both of
>> these apps are Windows based.  I run Windows7 as an application on MacOS -
>> as god intended ;-)  with Parallels.  Geomagic and Sheetcam are pretty much
>> the only thing I run under Windows.
>>
>> A few months ago when I read that Fusion had released their turning CAM
>> and made Fusion 360 free for enthusiasts and small businesses I gave it
>> another try (had played with early beta but found it lacking).  I have now
>> begun to use Fusion 360 almost exclusively.  I have most recently been
>> making parts for a cnc lathe so I haven’t played with the milling CAM yet,
>> but do intend to.  After months of using it I believe I am not going to
>> renew my maintenance of Geomagic Design.   I have to say that I was very
>> reluctant to use a cloud-based application but I am quite pleased with
>> Fusion 360 and have never had issues relating to it’s cloud-based model
>> (you can do most things when offline as well).  I am constantly amazed at
>> the features in the software as well as the integrated HSMWorks-based CAM
>> software that is available for free in this package.   It is also
>> constantly being improved and updated, they do a feature and bug release at
>> least once a month. sometime twice a month.
>>
>> I also infrequently use OnShape (also cloud based) and am very impressed
>> with their collaboration features and rapid updates as well.  OnShape is
>> CAD only and doesn’t have free integrated CAM so I have been using it less
>> and less but occasionally use it with colleagues to work on some things.
>>  You can purchase commercial CAM packages for it.
>>
>> I would highly recommend you check out Fusion 360.
>> -Tom
>>
>> > On Jan 30, 2016, at 12:03 PM, Chris Albertson <
>> albertson.ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > What are 

Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[tom-emc]

Here is the quote from the Fusion 360 link I sent:  

"Access the same design software used by industry leaders worldwide. A free 
3-year license is available for students, teachers, and academic institutions.  
A free 1-year startup license is also available for hobbyists, enthusiasts, 
makers, and emerging businesses that make less than US$100,000 in revenue per 
year. At the end of 1 year, you can reselect the startup entitlement or 
transition to a commercial entitlement.
See Terms of Service: Autodesk Web Services Entitlements 
.”

-Tom
.
> On Jan 30, 2016, at 11:04 PM, Chris Albertson  
> wrote:
> 
> It seems that Fusion 360 is in the Mac "App Store" for free.  It may be
> cloud based but it is also a "real" app that runs on a Mac.  (They might
> have a Windows version too but I have not looked.)
> 
> OK I said "free".  No, sorry, a correction, The app is free but it does not
> work without a "membership".  You can buy different levels of "membership"
> starting at $39 per month or $300 per year.  Only the first 30 days is
> free.  I'm looking at the App as I type this.
> 
> That said, it looks really good:
> 
>  - A big company that is NOT going away is behind this (Adobe)
>  - It does ,Surface, Mesh, Parametric and Solid modeling and will do
>  organic shape like a guitar neck or car body as well as simple things
>  - It holds the data and allows people to collaborate from different
>  locations on a design.  It will handle version control and multiple users
>  working on the same designs
>  - Users can extend it using Java
>  - Can output to a 3 axis mill, 3D Printer or even printed drawings
> 
> 
> But $39 per month will add up over time.  This is the model Adobe has
> gone with for their other apps like Photoshop and the like, you buy a
> subscription.   It is a good deal if you make money  with Adobe software.
> Looks like I can use this for 30 days.
> 
> Here is a link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/fusion-360
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 11:03 AM,  wrote:
> 
>> I too am a Mac user.  Up until recently I have been using Geomagic Design
>> (formerly Alibre Design) for CAD and mostly Sheetcam for CAM.  Both of
>> these apps are Windows based.  I run Windows7 as an application on MacOS -
>> as god intended ;-)  with Parallels.  Geomagic and Sheetcam are pretty much
>> the only thing I run under Windows.
>> 
>> A few months ago when I read that Fusion had released their turning CAM
>> and made Fusion 360 free for enthusiasts and small businesses I gave it
>> another try (had played with early beta but found it lacking).  I have now
>> begun to use Fusion 360 almost exclusively.  I have most recently been
>> making parts for a cnc lathe so I haven’t played with the milling CAM yet,
>> but do intend to.  After months of using it I believe I am not going to
>> renew my maintenance of Geomagic Design.   I have to say that I was very
>> reluctant to use a cloud-based application but I am quite pleased with
>> Fusion 360 and have never had issues relating to it’s cloud-based model
>> (you can do most things when offline as well).  I am constantly amazed at
>> the features in the software as well as the integrated HSMWorks-based CAM
>> software that is available for free in this package.   It is also
>> constantly being improved and updated, they do a feature and bug release at
>> least once a month. sometime twice a month.
>> 
>> I also infrequently use OnShape (also cloud based) and am very impressed
>> with their collaboration features and rapid updates as well.  OnShape is
>> CAD only and doesn’t have free integrated CAM so I have been using it less
>> and less but occasionally use it with colleagues to work on some things.
>> You can purchase commercial CAM packages for it.
>> 
>> I would highly recommend you check out Fusion 360.
>> -Tom
>> 
>>> On Jan 30, 2016, at 12:03 PM, Chris Albertson 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> What are people here using to create G-code?   I am looking for options.
>>> 
>>> I'm new to CNC and trying to develop a work flow.  I'm making small parts
>>> (most fit in a 3" cube)  for robot manipulators.   These can be designed
>>> for easy manual machining but now I want to add curves and arcs and later
>>> add refinements that have more organic shapes.  Qualities are as much as
>> a
>>> half dozen each.
>>> 
>>> I use ViaCAD.  It is very much identical to "TurboCAD" to make 3D
>> drawings
>>> and these can be saved in several different file formats.
>>> 
>>> I found PyCAM.  It will read STL files and make G-code.   Are there other
>>> options?   Can you really build good G-code from STL?  It seems STL has
>> no
>>> notion of arcs and hols and pockets.  It is all triangles.  Does this
>>> matter?
>>> 
>>> I'm doing